Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 19, 2022
What Will Be The Geographic End State Of The War In Ukraine

The Ukrainian National Security Advisor has sent a letter to the White House and the CIA to request money in support of an insurgency in Russian held areas:

The document, dated March 6, asked the U.S. "to allocate additional funds for the organization of the resistance movement and voluntary formations of territorial communities throughout Ukraine."

The White House and the Ukrainian embassy vehemently deny that the letter is real. I however do not believe that it is faked. It just was not meant to become public. The CIA has been training 'resistance' militia in the Ukraine since 2015. To request new money for more of it is only natural.

The U.S. will finance a resistance in Ukraine through the CIA just as it did in Syria and just like it did from 1949 until the early 1950s when the U.S. financed anti-Soviet insurgency in Ukraine ended in misery.

But resistance against whom?

The premise seems to be that Russia wants to occupy the Ukraine.

It can be seen in an English language interview the Turkish state TV channel TRT had with Vitaly Klitschko, the mayor of Kiev. Klitschko accuses Russia of wanting to recreate the USSR. He rejects any negotiations for peace and wants the Ukraine to keep fighting.

After the interview the historian Gilbert Doctorow pointed out that it was Russia which first left the USSR to end the financing of outlaying provinces at the center's cost and that no one wants to recreate that situation.

As Putin ones said:

Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain.

Russia has limited aims in Ukraine and will end the war and leave most of the Ukraine when those aims are achieved either by negotiations or by other means. It is the Ukraine that will have to bear the cost for it.

But Zelenski, Klitschko and the U.S. overlords do not want to see it that way. The U.S. wants to keep Russia in the Ukraine to fight it to the last Ukrainian and to damage it that way.

The Washington Post writes that there seems to be no Ukrainian urge to negotiate anything:

The prospects of a near-term deal look bleak, diplomats say, but mixed signals from Zelensky about how close he is to striking an agreement have only heightened anxiety about the trajectory of the negotiations.

“I’m ready for dialogue; we’re not ready for capitulation,” Zelensky told ABC News earlier this week, while vowing to continue fighting Russia for as long as necessary.

Zelensky reiterated that message in even stronger terms on Tuesday when the prime ministers of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovenia traveled to Kyiv to meet him in a risky wartime visit. “He showed very little interest in a negotiated settlement and said Ukraine needed to keep fighting until Putin altered his demands,” said a diplomat familiar with the discussions, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive meetings.

The U.S. seems to be happy with that stand and the secretary of state even wants to widen the war:

“There’s no indication on our end that the Ukrainians are suing for peace. They want to fight,” said a senior U.S. official.

Zelensky will have to sell any peace deal to his own people — a tricky task if he is forced to concede too much. He has been a wildly popular wartime president, but he was an unpopular peacetime one. And Ukraine’s westward ambitions have only been strengthened by Russia’s assault.

Any potential deal will also require buy-in from the West, which will need to lift sanctions on Moscow in exchange for its withdrawal of Russian forces.

But Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Wednesday that a simple withdrawal of troops may not meet a U.S. standard for sanctions relief. The United States “will want to make sure that anything that’s done is, in effect, irreversible, that this can’t happen again, that Russia won’t pick up and do exactly what it’s doing in a year or two years or three years.”

The only way to get to that end state is the total dismantling of Russia. That may indeed be what Blinken has in mind. What plans does he have to make it happen?

When the war to disarm the Ukraine started to my utter surprise I asked what Russia would desire as the geographic end state of the war:

It is difficult to discern what the planed end state of this operation is. Where is this going to stop?

Looking at this map I believe that the most advantageous end state for Russia would be the creation of a new independent country, call it Novorossiya, on the land east of the Dnieper and south along the coast that holds a majority ethnic Russian population and that, in 1922, had been attached to the Ukraine by Lenin. That state would be politically, culturally and militarily aligned with Russia.


bigger

This would eliminate Ukrainian access to the Black Sea and create a land bridge towards the Moldavian breakaway Transnistria which is under Russian protection.

The rest of the Ukraine would be a land confined, mostly agricultural state, disarmed and too poor to be build up to a new threat to Russia anytime soon. Politically it would be dominated by fascists from Galicia which would then become a major problem for the European Union.

Novorossiya was mention by Putin on April 17 2014 during a long Q&A session on Russian TV. The question was about federalization of Ukraine before new government elections in the just regime changed Ukraine.

Putin responded:

Regarding the question of what should come first: a constitutional referendum followed by elections, or elections first to stabilise the situation and then a referendum. The essential issue is how to ensure the legitimate rights and interests of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in the southeast of Ukraine. I would like to remind you that what was called Novorossiya (New Russia) back in the tsarist days – Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Nikolayev and Odessa – were not part of Ukraine back then. These territories were given to Ukraine in the 1920s by the Soviet government. Why? Who knows. They were won by Potyomkin and Catherine the Great in a series of well-known wars. The centre of that territory was Novorossiysk, so the region is called Novorossiya. Russia lost these territories for various reasons, but the people remained.

At that time Putin did not threaten to take Novorossiya but demanded full rights for its population:

Today, they live in Ukraine, and they should be full citizens of their country. That’s what this is all about. The issue is not whether the referendum on decentralisation or federalisation is followed by elections or the elections come before the architecture of the state is changed. The key issue is providing guarantees to these people. Our role is to facilitate a solution in Ukraine, to ensure that there are guarantees. People from southeast Ukraine will ask you, will ask us and the current authorities in Kiev: “Fine, the elections will be held on May 25, but do you want us to recognise their outcome? You’ll forget your promises the very next day and send new oligarchs to Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk, and so on. What about guarantees? We need answers.” I hope that an answer will be found.

No answer was found then and Kiev has since strongly discriminated against those Russian people.

Novorossiya roughly includes the red and yellow areas in the above map. It also includes the valuable Soviet developed iron ore mines and factories of Kryvyi Rih west of the Dnieper river.

Two professional Russia experts now agree with my prediction above but chose slightly different borders than I had originally proposed:

In his latest piece the Canadian Russia specialist Patrick Armstrong writes:

I still do not think that [Russia wants to take ownership of Ukraine] – I believe that Moscow wants a neutral and de-nazified Ukraine that is a buffer between it and NATO. I am also coming to believe that Novorossiya, more or less in its historical borders as formed by Katherine when recovered from the Ottomans, will be independent. The chance that it would remain part of Ukraine has probably passed. As I wrote in 2014 “In short, the West broke Ukraine, it now owns it. Or, to put it more precisely, it owns that part that Moscow doesn’t want. And what part that is is entirely up to Moscow to choose“. Moscow is choosing now.

In a new piece about the coming partitioning of Ukraine Gilbert Doctorow agrees:

I do not deny that a Ukrainian insurgency is a plausible next phase to the war, especially given the irrational position on ‘compromises’ that we see in Klitschko’s interview. However, there are obvious ways for the Kremlin to respond so as to contain the risks to themselves. To begin with, they can realize the threat Putin issued before the war began: to deprive Ukraine of its statehood. Not entirely, but to deprive them of the state in the configuration that has existed since 1991. This means to partition Ukraine, to hive off the territories west of Kiev and the Dnieper River, forming a land-locked rump state with its capital logically in Lviv, near the Polish frontier.

To use the language of the banking community, Russia would thereby create a ‘bad bank,’ containing the poisonous assets of Ukrainian radicalism, very few industrial or other major economic assets, and removed to a distance no longer threatening to Russia. The ‘good bank’ would be central Ukraine, the territories east of the Dniepr River, which have a considerably larger population of Russian speakers, who should respond to Russia’s call to defend their own interests in the public life of the country and come out from the bullying they were subjected to by the nationalists over the past 8 years. This central Ukraine would receive back the Black Sea coast now occupied by the Russians and would enjoy the agricultural and other major economic assets that always defined Ukrainian prosperity.

The areas that Armstrong, Doctorow and I describe have largely Russian speaking pro-Russian populations. Yesterday some 30,000 people left the besiege Mariupol and several of them were interviewed. They all spoke out against the Azov Nazis who still hold parts of the city. They likely would not mind to become citizens of a newly founded Novorossiya that does not submit to a Russian hating government in Kiev or elsewhere.

But to hold that land Russia must first gain it. So how will the war proceed?

Russia will slowly grind down the Ukrainian defenses and then move further into Ukraine up to the new border it wants to achieve. (I do not think that it will include taking Kiev. Russia is currently just threatening it to bind Ukrainian troops.)  It will hold there and help to organize a referendum for the independence from Ukraine in the areas it will hold by then. A new local militia army will be formed to defend that state. Russia will recognize the new state and sign a common defense agreement with it.

Russian troops can then go back to Russia.

As those areas are largely pro-Russian there will be little chance for an effective insurgency within them.

Comments

I personally have no way to confirm this report, but here it is from ASB military on Telegram.
war is hell, it certainly is – & that’s a lot of human life lost in a single missile strike
How many people in Yemen or Syria could that $400 million have fed? what a waste…..
https://t.me/asbmil/798
ASB Military News
$400 million worth of Western supplied weaponry destroyed in a single russian strike on the military base near Lvov — radio intercepted comms suggest that 267 foreign mercenaries have been killed in the strike. 50 year old Peter from Austria who fought alongside the “international legion of Ukraine” said that 800 to 1000 foreign mercenaries were present during the strike. Around 400 mercenaries were evacuated to Poland, many of whom have suffered severe burns & torn limbs from the Kalibr strike. There’s a high number of missing individuals still under the rubble which includes a high number of Americans, Poles and Romanians. Former NATO officers are Amongst the dead.
38.4K views Mar 19 at 09:30

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 20 2022 6:53 utc | 201

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 20 2022 6:53 utc | 202
Is there more on this? If those Boogaloo Boys needed more reasons to get the hell out of Dodge it’s this. How do we know ‘former NATO officers are amongst the dead’? If this is an accurate report it means that the Russians are moving into a new phase.

Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 20 2022 7:06 utc | 202

Spending a few minutes to think about the implications of a Russian-Belorussian troop movement to Brest in Belarus on the Polish border, as mentioned above.
Assuming this is not just some ordinary Belorussian troop movement as part of being in a heightened alert state due to the circumstances in Ukraine…
I am more than ever convinced that this is a move to seize Kviv. We’ve already seen how Russia operates: they dropped paratroopers on an airfield near Kiev, then sent a huge armored column down from Belarus to encircle Kiev. So sending another column down the Polish border makes all sorts of sense – they’ve already done this once before.
BUT…half or more of the Ukrainian government fled to Lviv early in or even before the war. Remember that? So if you want to capture the Ukrainian government, taking Kiev is only half the job. If Zelensky is not in Poland, he’s in Lviv, not Kiev. Imagine the pressure put on him if a Russian armored column starts plowing down the Polish border directly at Lviv. He’ll either have to surrender or flee to Poland (again, if he’s not already there.)
Imagine the panic in Lviv when the neo-Nazis see a Russian armored column coming at them NOW, rather than weeks or months from now when the full Russian army enters the scene from the east.
There has been talk about a possible NATO incursion into Western Ukraine to secure Lviv and the border due to the “humanitarian crisis” of border emigrants, either by NATO troops or the CIA’s “mercenary army.” Well, this move would eliminate that as a possibility.
Then there is the shipment of arms and mercenaries across the border. This move will heavily interdict that operation. Since the target of these transfers has presumably been to or controlled by Ukrainian government officials in Lviv, taking Lviv will help interdict them.
There are probably more reasons I haven’t thought of yet. Dealing with the neo-Nazi concentration in the area is just one of them. So this will make hash of the idea that Russia isn’t going to go the Polish border and will stop with the job of dealing with neo-Nazis and NATO “insurgencies” half done.
So in my view Russia and Belarus are going to start an operation down the Polish border to seize Lviv. When is not clear, but it could be within days depending on the logistics.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 7:07 utc | 203

@ Jörgen Hassler 197
Of course, in the heat of battle it can be difficult to confirm a “false flag” with 100% certainty — but here, a further examination of a “false flag” that b himself looked at.
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/18/bombing-mariupol-theater-ukrainian-azov-nato-intervention/
Moreover, there are two kinds of “false flag” reports — a “true false flag” which deceitfully purports to explain a real event (such as the damaged theater — or the damaged maternity hospital for that matter) and a “cheaper” one which purports to report an event that was no event at all. Also known as a simple “lie.” In the latter category you can put things like babies pulled from incubators — or the Turkish mosque in Mariupol that Ukraine claimed was attacked by Russia — when there was no attack on it by anybody. An incident also mentioned in the Grayzone article. So a two-fer.

Posted by: Emily Dickinson | Mar 20 2022 7:11 utc | 204

The NZ Māori Party speaks out:
“Speaking in parliament last week on sanctions against Russia Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi gave the best speech by a long way.”
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi said “Aotearoa should be consistent in applying sanctions in future and take action against “any imperial power illegally invading a sovereign nation”.
“Why did our successive New Zealand governments not condemn the illegal US invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, or Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine? Rather than condemn the United States for their illegal, imperial invasion, we’ve supported them with troops, with training, with intelligence. This must end.”
Clear, consistent and principled. Thank you Rawiri!

Posted by: Paul | Mar 20 2022 7:20 utc | 205

@Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 4:17 utc | 174

I disagree. As long as Russia is not bordered by NATO that should be sufficient and I think that’s what they mean – no NATO on Russia’s border.

Read a map. Even if NATO is rolled back to 1997, Russia will still be bordered by NATO.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 20 2022 7:25 utc | 206

LIVE UPDATES: Boris Johnson Discussed Possibility of Offering Zelensky Refuge in UK – 20.03.2022, Sputnik International https://sputniknews.com/20220320/live-updates-boris-johnson-discussed-possibility-of-offering-zelensky-refuge-in-uk-1094021928.html

Posted by: Laurence | Mar 20 2022 7:27 utc | 207

Some of us are watching video of civilians escaping Mariupol. Those who haven’t seen them are never going to see them. If you are not there yet you don’t want a link. You don’t care.
Now that the Russians provide safety we see lots of military age men in civilian clothes. They have been absent in video until now. They do not want to fight for Ukraine. They are not afraid of Russia.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 20 2022 7:28 utc | 208

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 20 2022 6:53 utc | 202
$400M worth of gear: NLAWs are £20K a pop (single-use!). What are MANPADs worth? Would it all be infantry support gear or would there be more sophisticated hardware amongst it I wonder?

Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 20 2022 7:30 utc | 209

LIVE UPDATES: More Than 2.7 Million Ukrainians Wish to Evacuate to Russia – MoD https://sputniknews.com/20220319/live-updates-more-than-27-million-ukrainians-wish-to-evacuate-to-russia—mod-1094019343.html

He added that Ukrainian nationalists continue to hold over 4.5 million civilians captive by using them as a “live shield” in Kiev, Kharkiv, Sumy and over 20 other Ukrainian cities. According to Mizintsev, there are also 6,830 foreign citizens from 19 different countries and the crews of 70 foreign ships who also remain blocked by nationalists in Ukraine.

Posted by: Laurence | Mar 20 2022 7:33 utc | 210

@Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 4:17 utc | 174
@Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 20 2022 7:25 utc | 207
Even if Russia were not bordered by NATO, it would not remove the threat.
It’s going to take a lot more than a rump buffer state this time, technology as a consequence, methods of war have changed.
Yes, neutralising Ukraine as some form of buffer will be a basic requirement, but Russia is going to require a deterrent framework beyond that to keep NATO in check going forward.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 20 2022 7:34 utc | 211

On Russians with Attitude thread there is sensible discussion that begins with mystification that Western liberals are so deeply convinced of their own mythology:
“you will never understand anything that happens in the world if you deny the existence of existential conflicts & instead view geopolitics through the lens of “criminals” who are “breaking the rules” – it’s an infantile view that isn’t even held by the people who came up with it.”
Right on. And this is why b shouldn’t waste his time exposing fakery. The whole liberal promise is fakery. Marx proved that 150 years ago in ch. 7 of Kapital.

Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 20 2022 7:41 utc | 212

@ Laurence | Mar 19 2022 21:32 utc | 105
“Ukraine” back then meant “border areas” (yes, you too can look this up!), so that Latin phrase there means “The Border [Areas of Poland], also known as the Land of the Cossacks.”
So the place back then was known as “The Land of the Cossacks” and the Cossacks themselves did not refer to themselves as “Ukrainian”–only the Poles, Turks, and Austrians did, and not in any ethnic sense but rather as “those folk who live just outside our territorial borders.”
Once again, I’ll point out that anyone who proffers Wikipedia as a useful source for anything but the most basic sorts of facts is an idiot.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Mar 20 2022 7:47 utc | 213

Russia’s strongest warning to the nato lunkheads and lunatics to date. big escalation with a big message: don’t f*ck with Russia during this uh…operation …in Ukraine, or else – now the use of the Kinzhal has made that real and clear.
But nato doesn’t listen, folks, at least the political leadership doesn’t – they are fools, MIC greed-f*ckers, and morons. I assume that the USA Dept. of Defense got the message.
https://twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1505099440691982336
Today, Putin has also taken one step closer to the nuclear threshold.
He just demoed Russia’s premier tactical-nuke delivery system in Ukraine.
The message to NATO could not be clearer: If you intervene in the conflict, I will use this system against you.
….By firing Kinzhals in Ukraine, Putin is sending a major “do not F with us” message to the West.
He is reminding the world that, whatever logistics challenges his military faces, it retains an edge in absolute bleeding-edge nuclear and conventional weaponry.
https://twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1505099421029044224
Putin’s decision to use the Kinzhal is more escalatory than Trump’s use of the MOAB, because the Kinzhal is nuclear capable.
Due to its extreme range, it is a “carrier killer” – capable of wiping out an entire U.S. Carrier Strike Group.
https://twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1505099415404515331
Russia’s use of the Kinzhal in Ukraine is similar to Trump’s use of the MOAB (Mother of All Bombs) in Afghanistan in 2017.
In both instances, the point of the weapons deployment was not the immediate combat effect.
The goal is to menace other adversaries by demoing a system….
….In reality, this is a MAJOR deterrent signal to NATO.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 20 2022 7:49 utc | 214

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 20 2022 7:25 utc | 207
“Read a map. Even if NATO is rolled back to 1997, Russia will still be bordered by NATO.”
Well, then everyone who are complaining that Russia needs a buffer state to not have a border with NATO needs to read a map. What I was saying is that a compliant Ukraine is not an “extension” of Russia and therefore the people who are saying that Russia needs ‘No borders with NATO” are incorrect to say that a compliant Ukraine is “still on a border with NATO.”
I said Russia itself doesn’t want a border with NATO. If it still has one because of the Baltic States, big deal.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 8:00 utc | 215

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 20 2022 7:34 utc | 212
As I said, Ukraine is just the first step. You are correct that a “border with NATO” is not the issue. US strategic weapons in any state is the issue. Russia has already said they don’t care if the existing NATO states remain in NATO as long as they don’t have weapons to threaten Russia.
Since I doubt the US and NATO will comply, Russia will take the necessary countermeasures by placing its weapons appropriately. People who think the “military-technical measures” extends to unilateral attacks by Russia on Poland, Romania or wherever are, in my view, simply wrong. Russia is not trying to start WWIII. It’s trying to restore MAD for both NATO and the US.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 8:04 utc | 216

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 8:04 utc | 217

Since I doubt the US and NATO will comply, Russia will take the necessary countermeasures by placing its weapons appropriately.

Yep, that’s it. The division/re-organisation of the Ukrainian map will be based weapons placement – this seems empirical. One could use that to predict how the new map of Ukraine will look once the dust settles.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 20 2022 8:09 utc | 217

@Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 8:00 utc | 216

I said Russia itself doesn’t want a border with NATO. If it still has one because of the Baltic States, big deal.

You still have not read the map.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 20 2022 8:38 utc | 218

4 perfectly representative recent maps of Ukraine
https://twitter.com/elenaevdokimov7/status/1505411536667684866

Posted by: too scents | Mar 20 2022 8:38 utc | 219

“Zelensky reiterated that message in even stronger terms on Tuesday when the prime ministers of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovenia traveled to Kyiv to meet him in a risky wartime visit.”
They did not meet in Kiev according to John Helmer, fake news.
http://johnhelmer.net/the-zelensky-summit-meeting-in-kiev-on-march-15-with-polish-czech-and-slovenian-prime-ministers-was-a-fake-devised-in-warsaw-the-meeting-was-at-przemysl-poland-zelensky-also/

Posted by: Rolf Nilsson | Mar 20 2022 8:54 utc | 220

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 20 2022 8:38 utc | 219
???
RSH is right.

Posted by: njet | Mar 20 2022 8:59 utc | 221

Is even Klitschko in Kiev? At least he is obviously positioning himself for a Heroic Exile.
Deception is the only strategy, the only mode of political discourse remaining in the International Community. The UAF officers in the field have probably been deceived into believing that help is coming, just hold out.

Posted by: veto | Mar 20 2022 9:03 utc | 222

NATO Norway shares a border with Russia. 🙂

Posted by: veto | Mar 20 2022 9:22 utc | 223

maybe if Zelensky comes to the UK he can get a Guardian column.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 20 2022 9:27 utc | 224

Zelensky has gone full dictator.
Whichever way the Russians decide to physically “end” the Ukrainian situation, the Political setup is being tailor made for a new DEMOCRATIC legislature. All they have to do is allow the parties mentioned below to stand, and accept new ones created by “todays” prisoners. (ie Viktor Medvedchuk is now out of house arrest).
Voters or candidates? Those that are still IN the country can vote. Probably lets out Zelensky standing again as he will have fled. (Can go back to playing the piano with his dick).
Allowing Russsian speaking media to exist (Cutting out the censorship now found in the West!)

Ukrainian Government issues a total ban on Opposition Political parties, major and minor, deemed as Pro-Russia!
Thus, according to the Ukrainian President, the National Security and Defense Council decided, given the full-scale war, to suspend any activities of a number of political parties during martial law.
Namely the:
— “Opposition Platform – For Life”; “Party of Shariy”; “Our”; “Opposition bloc”; “Left Opposition”; “Union of Left Forces”; “State”; “Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine”; “Socialist Party of Ukraine”; “Socialists”; “Vladimir Saldo Bloc”!

****
Lots of good ideas of the “end” situation as mentioned in posts above, but in spite of being very well thought out, seem always to butt against the idea that NATO just moves back a bit, and makes trouble again and again.
The best solution is the collapse of NATO isn’t it?
So how would that happen? I suspect that the answer lies in the world of finance. NATO doesn’t exist if no one can pay for it, The massive US army neither. The seizure of the Russian State reserves (willed or not) has definitely struck a nerve, and the coming “Commodity wars” are going to see a vast change in the “fortunes” of the west. Base materials used in the economy – where do they come from? Not only Russia but also Africa and China etc. Even without “sanctions” the situation is one of precarity for future production. (“Production” is controlled by Oligarchs? No worries, as without materials, they are not even going to get robots to make things)
This obviously need to be expanded on (in another thread).
****
PS: News has come that the US is “suggesting” a new payments system for Libyan oil revenue (and I presume its control). Who woulda thought…..

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 20 2022 9:33 utc | 225

Posted by: veto | Mar 20 2022 9:22 utc | 224
Equally irrelevant. How many troops and strategic weapons is the US planning to install in any of these smaller countries? They picked Poland and Romania for a reason. Perhaps the US will do so in the future – in which case Russia will station its strategic weapons in the appropriate locations to counter them.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 20 2022 8:09 utc | 218
“The division/re-organisation of the Ukrainian map will be based weapons placement…”
I don’t think so. If you want to place strategic weapons with the minimum flight time to your enemies, you store them in the west of Ukraine, not in Donbass. If you’re concerned about incursions from NATO, you station your forces there, as well. It’s just another reason to grab all of western Ukraine. It’s just utterly ridiculous to allow a “rump Ukraine” full of “non-Ukraine” Ukrainians to exist ready to be gobbled up by NATO and the CIA.
I don’t know why people are fighting this notion tooth-and-nail just because a bunch of disgruntled Ukrainians live there, who can be more or less easily neutered from having any significant influence on the central government. As long as there isn’t another Yanukovych who stands down when trouble arises, I don’t foresee this massive insurgency or massive uprising of disgruntled nationalists happening.
As others have pointed out, Yanukovych could have cleared Maidan Square at any time during the riots – he had the power. He was persuaded not to, apparently. Also he had an entire multi-billion dollar CIA operation running against him. Trust me, the Russians aren’t going to allow that shit to happen again, no matter what they have to do to those disgruntled “non-Ukraine” Ukrainians in Western Ukraine.
It’s absurd to think Russia hasn’t thought that part of the political situation through. They know full well who they have to deal with there. If they don’t deal with them as I suggest, it will be a major mistake. Of course, it’s quite possible Russia will make that mistake. I don’t run Russia, so anything is possible. But it would be stupid to let western Ukraine separate from the rest of Ukraine.
This also applies to Syria. I’m quite sure Russia and Syria will regain Idlib at some point by one means or another. Territorial integrity is something the Russians respect – even when they’re “violating” it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 9:45 utc | 226

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 20 2022 9:33 utc | 226
“The best solution is the collapse of NATO isn’t it?”
One step at a time. Ukraine is the first step. I have no idea about the further steps, and I suspect neither does anyone else. Obviously economics will play a part. It’s obviously a question how Germany, for instance, is going to rearm itself massively if its economy is collapsing. As Martyanov constantly harps on, people don’t understand that the real economy determines the military power of a nation and that military power is used to protect that economy. It’s doubtful whether the EU understands that.
This, however, might be what the US is counting on. If Martyanov is right and the US is sacrificing the EU economy to attack Russia, and also to tie the EU more tightly to the US economy in order to slow the US economy’s collapse, then if the US ties the NATO military to the US, then the US MIC further profits even beyond where it is now, aided by precisely the sacrifice of the EU economy. This is why I think the US actually wants a war between Russia and NATO. Once Russia busts up NATO, the US can then hold the EU to ransom essentially, in terms of rebuilding the EU infrastructure damaged in the war and the NATO military. This would be a massive bonanza to the US MIC-based economy.
The only requirement is to keep the US out of the actual war in any real sense. But then, that is the rational part. It’s not clear to me that the neocons are rational in this regard. And that’s where the risk of WWIII comes in. Maybe these idiots believe that the US and NATO together can hold off Russia until some sort of ceasefire occurs before nukes are exchanged,leaving both Russia and the EU busted up and dependent on the US. As I said before, the neocons believe they can “finesse” these situations – usually wrongly.
“Conspiracy theory”? Perhaps. But not a priori implausible given the idiocy of the neocons. Again, the question devolves to who is going to stop such a plan from unfolding? Right now, the only party I see capable of that is the Pentagon.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 9:58 utc | 227

I once worked for a wise boss, who answered the discussion about how to split the commission on a pending deal with – ‘first the bear has to be killed, then we discuss how to distribute the spoils’……..
It is way to early to entertain this kind of discussion, Russia has still too far to go until they have cleansed the Ukrainian territory – a lot will happen between now and then that could make all this planning mute. To have it as a goal – yes! to focus on what will happen in a few months is at best distracting.

Posted by: Peter Camenzind | Mar 20 2022 10:02 utc | 228

Equally irrelevant. How many troops and strategic weapons is the US planning to install in any of these smaller countries? They picked Poland and Romania for a reason. Perhaps the US will do so in the future – in which case Russia will station its strategic weapons in the appropriate locations to counter them.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 9:58 utc | 228
I don’t disagree on that, was just clarifying the objection of Norwegian. In fact, in the the case of Norway and the Baltics, I think that Russia will destroy strategic missile installations in the process of construction or placement.
As for counter-installations, Zircon is launced from subs. Washington and the Pentagon are located near the coast. I am sure Russia today has full first strike capability. We do need to stop pretending and accomodate.

Posted by: veto | Mar 20 2022 10:14 utc | 229

🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by the Russian Defence Ministry
▫️The grouping of troops of the Donetsk People’s Republic, developing an offensive, took full control of Stepnoye and is pursuing the retreating units of the 53rd separate mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Up to 25 personnel, 2 tanks, 2 infantry fighting vehicles and 5 all-terrain vehicles were destroyed.
▫️In Novoselovka Vtoraya direction, the units of the Donetsk Republic have advanced to a depth of 3 kilometers, crossed the Kamenka – Verkhnetoretskoye road, and are fighting with the 1st airborne battalion of the 25th separate airborne brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
▫️During the night, most of Verkhnetoretskoye settlement was taken under control, where battles are being fought with the 2nd battalion of the same brigade. In total, up to 40 personnel, 5 armored personnel carriers and 4 all-terrain vehicles were destroyed there. Offensive actions continue.
▫️In the evening of March 19 and in the morning of March 20, high-precision long-range weapons attacked Ukraine’s military infrastructure.
▫️From the waters of the Black Sea, Kalibr sea-based cruise missiles destroyed workshops for repairing Ukrainian armored vehicles damaged in combat at the Nezhinsky repair plant.
▫️A large fuel storage base of the Ukrainian Armed Forces near Konstantinovka in Nikolaev region was destroyed by Kalibr sea-based cruise missiles from the waters of the Caspian Sea, as well as by Kinzhal aviation missile systems with hypersonic aeroballistic missiles from the airspace over Crimea territory. This is the main base for supply Ukrainian armored vehicles with fuel in combat areas in the south of Ukraine.
▫️High-precision air-launched missiles struck the training centre of the Ukrainian special operations forces near Ovruch settlement of Zhytomir region, where foreign mercenaries who arrived in Ukraine were based. More than 100 special operations forces servicemen and mercenaries were killed.
✈️💥During the night, operational-tactical and army aviation hit 62 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 3 command posts, 1 multiple launch rocket system, 2 missile and artillery weapons depots and 1 fuel depot, as well as 52 areas of military equipment concentration.
💥Russian air defence means shot down in the air: 1 Mi-8 helicopter of the Ukrainian Air Force near Kohannoye, 6 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including 1 Bayraktar TB-2 near Shibennoye, as well as 1 Ukrainian Tochka-U tactical ballistic missile near Chistovodovka north of Izyum.
💥Russian artillery destroyed 6 Ukrainian Bukovel mobile electronic warfare systems.
💥In total, 207 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,467 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 148 multiple launch rocket systems, 573 field artillery and mortar guns, as well as 1,262 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed since the beginning of the special military operation.
#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

Posted by: Kim | Mar 20 2022 10:37 utc | 230

Listen up, HetShopBoi @ 214: Anyone who quibbles over the name to polish the Turd Hetman is an idiot. The name exists in sources that predate you him, Wikipedia, and Langley, Va by nine hundred years. The Soviets named it Ukraine. Ukraine is a word that has been generally agreed by most the world — excepting the Hetman of TurdPolish and his toady. Fuck off and die, idiot.

Posted by: Laurence | Mar 20 2022 10:41 utc | 231

The Western propaganda machine went into overdrive yesterday, showing three Russian cosmonauts wearing yellow and blue jump type suits, and the Western media headlines read, Russian astronauts support Ukraine with their yellow and blue jump suits, however the truth of the story is a little bit different.
“Roscosmos has explained the meaning behind Russian cosmonauts’ yellow and blue suits. In contrast to what some Western media outlets viewed as a political expression, the colours refer to symbols of the university that all three men graduated from – Bauman Moscow State Technical University.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Mar 20 2022 10:42 utc | 232

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Mar 20 2022 10:42 utc | 233
LOL. perfect, on so many levels. but it will still be repeated, no doubt, in the weeks ahead, like the ghost of Ukraine bullshit.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 20 2022 10:48 utc | 233

The Ukrainian Nazis wanted and still do, to try and find a way to pull the US directly into conflict with Russia, or any Nato or EU country for that matter.
“The Russian military claims it has uncovered a plot by Ukrainian hard-line nationalist groups to target diplomatic facilities of the US and other Western nations in the Ukrainian city of Lviv. The alleged discovery was announced by Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov during a media briefing on Saturday.
Washington and many other Western states moved embassy staff to Lviv shortly before Russia launched its military attack, last month. The city, regarded as a hotbed of Ukrainian nationalism, is about 500km from the capital, Kiev, and just 50km from the Polish border.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Mar 20 2022 10:56 utc | 234

The latest FF is already in the EU media this morning
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-forces-bomb-art-school-mariupol-housing-400-refugees-city-council-2022-03-20/

Posted by: Tom11 | Mar 20 2022 11:05 utc | 235

The Rusyn people have petitioned Putin to recognize them and to assign them an ethnic state. They lie in the extreme west of Ukraine. This is just the beginning.
For the moment, Russia together with the armies of Novorossia is busy securing the lands east of the Denipr for Russians living there. Mariupol is the large manufacturing & transport hub of this region, which is why it is being stormed, regardless of cost.
Kharkov will be weakened and taken, because that region is majority Russian and will be added to Novorosia.
Odessa will be surrounded and neutralized by forces enroute Moldova.
A combined Belarus/Russian force will march south from SW Belarus and seal the western border.
At which point… game over…
The NAZIS will be tried in a war crimes tribunal… and hung… Banderist memoribilia… monuments.. statuary… writings… will be banned…
All Soviet era industries will be nationalized…. this is happening in Russia now… All land will be held in common… leaseholds only.. no sales… non-GMO…. Organic Ag only… Monsanto/Bayer out…
The map will be more complicated than you show … Novorossia will occupy all lands east of the Denipr. Odessa the coast. The central Cherozem will be a sparsely occupied province agricultural in nature, dependent upon Odessa Belarus for access to markets, thus controlled. The extreme west will be Rusynistan.. The SW will be an expanded Transdinistra.. Kiev will be a city state…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Mar 20 2022 11:06 utc | 236

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 20 2022 7:28 utc | 209
Saw a video yesterday more than 200 Males dressed as civilians wanting to be evacuated from Mariopole.They were searched for nazi tattoos or recent removal of tattoos.Russians said more than 110 were Azov,so were liquidated.

Posted by: Kim | Mar 20 2022 11:06 utc | 237

CHART OF THE DAY: Steel prices in Europe have surged to a fresh all-time high, with bechmark hot rolled coil trading above €1,400 per tonne.
https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1505494530778353668?cxt=HHwWiMCy5ZPTy-QpAAAA
Russia is the world’s top-5 steel producer and Ukraine is top-12. EU has targeted Russian steel with sanctions. Ukraine’s steel industry is suffering damage, with the destruction of the Azovstal plant in Mariupol (a Stalin’s mega-project from the 1930s)
https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1505495372680073220
On top, European steel production is going to suffer, as the continent relies significantly on electric arc furnaces (mini mills) for production (about ~45% of the total). Sky-high electricity prices is denting production, particularly of construction steel like rebar
https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1505496838996217858

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Mar 20 2022 11:12 utc | 238

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Mar 20 2022 11:06 utc | 236

The Rusyn people have petitioned Putin to recognize them and to assign them an ethnic state. They lie in the extreme west of Ukraine.

This provides the template for the neutralisation of Ukraine through breakup: Give every single distinct ethnic or cultural group it’s own state, recognised by the Russian federation if by nobody else, and let the West (or the entire globe, it matters not) dispute their legitimacy forever after.
The very act of the West disputing the legitimacy of these new states will create the political barrier required to buffer the Russian federation from NATO and the EU.
The fracture of these states into ethnic/cultural groups will ensure their persistence, for once fractured they can only be rejoined into a larger block by extreme force and trauma.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 20 2022 11:17 utc | 239

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Mar 20 2022 11:12 utc | 238
Carnage everywhere.
And Russia hasn’t really applied Santions of its own yet.
Ace Card being shut down oil and gas to Europe and Britain.

Posted by: Kim | Mar 20 2022 11:25 utc | 240

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 20 2022 9:27 utc | 225
LOL

Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 20 2022 11:35 utc | 241

Patrick Lancaster uploaded a new video report from Mariupol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6UzUMrEEXM

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Mar 20 2022 11:45 utc | 242

Laurence @ 232
Tell us how you really feel. Releasing some affect will be good for you

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 20 2022 11:46 utc | 243

Eleven “pro-russian parties” have been banned. Amongst them is “Opposition Platform — For Life” which got 13 percent in the last parliamentary elections in 2019! It seems Mr. Zelenskyy
banned anyone apart from parties who did well in west Ukraine.
https://www.opindia.com/2022/03/ukraine-president-zelenskyy-bans-11-opposition-parties-over-alleged-russian-links/

Posted by: Andreas | Mar 20 2022 12:10 utc | 244

Posted by: Laurence | Mar 20 2022 10:41 utc | 232
What are you smoking ? A lot of pent up anger, which I would guess is directed toward the Poles.
Ha ha …
Those Poles at least can say that on old maps they existed.
900 years ago there were “Ukrainians” you say ????
Probably in your dreams. LOL
Then it was called Rus. Those three letters directly lead to the word “Russia”.
Link

Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 20 2022 12:30 utc | 245

Africa mostly quiet amid widespread condemnation of Russia – AP

Twenty-five of Africa’s 54 nations abstained or didn’t record a vote in the U.N. General Assembly resolution earlier this month condemning Russia.

Apparently ZERO African countries are going along with the US/EU sanctions regime.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 20 2022 12:32 utc | 246

Pakistan/Imran Khan duels with EU on Russia Ukraine neutrality – asiatimes

Pakistan has slammed the European Union for what it sees as violations of diplomatic norms by pressuring Islamabad to condemn Russia’s recent invasion of Ukraine. The kerfuffle has underscored perceptions that Islamabad is aligning with Russia and China over the US and West in what some see as a fast emerging new Cold War.
It was lost on few observers that Prime Minister Imran Khan went ahead with a planned two-day visit to Moscow just as Russia was launching its cross-border assault on Ukraine, which has since triggered massive Western sanctions against Russia.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 20 2022 12:34 utc | 247

https://t.me/vatfor/7593
Russian sources are claiming second kinzhal strike this time in combination with a Kalibr from the Kaspian sea. Target is “soft” (not clear what the meaning is).

Posted by: Boo | Mar 20 2022 12:46 utc | 248

@242 That vid shows the destruction when you storm a city. Goading the Russians to storm cities, as the West press especially is doing is evil. QED Western media is fundamentally evil, profit at any cost. Such a disgrace.

Posted by: Oh | Mar 20 2022 12:46 utc | 249

SmoothieX12 linked this FoxTV short interview
https://youtu.be/hE4nCd1V_lQ
They found old, WW2 “Ukraine refugees” and thought it would be a good idea to ask them about Russian invasions.
It kinda was. The dude was real happy someone got interest in his dust-covered past and readily spoke about fighting Russians on German behalf.
A twist in the tale that should had been expected, but was not.
The hostess face at the end of the video is priceless.
I wonder if FoxTV would eventually disappear that video. Used NewPipe to download it.
—-
Zelensky has gone full dictator.
Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 20 2022 9:33 utc | 226
Nope… Sad for him, he has gone full dictator’s condom. And even the most sturdy condoms eventually wear down and acquire a hole.

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 20 2022 12:57 utc | 250

Dr. George W Oprisko | Mar 20 2022 11:06 utc | 236
There is no Rusyn people in Ukraine.
There is no Russian majority in Kharkiv.
Neither is there a Russian majority in Odessa.
Apart from Donetsk and Luhansk, there’s not a single region, city or town in today’s Ukraine where Russians are a majority.
Also, there aren’t any Polish or Hungarian dominated areas in Ukraine in 2022.
That’s all a thing of the past, long gone.
I don’t know if Ukraine will be broken up. I doubt it. But if it happens, it won’t be along any lines of ethnicity or nationality. For the simple reason that those lines are just not there.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Mar 20 2022 13:19 utc | 251

NATO Fractured States.
One day, the common people wake up and all their savings are gone. All their money has become worthless. But now, they have freedom.
“It was worth it.” – A monster among monsters Madeleine Albright. She was referring to Iraq, but the fractured Yugoslavia is likewise.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Mar 20 2022 13:54 utc | 252

There is no Rusyn people in Ukraine.
[snip]
Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Mar 20 2022 13:19 utc | 254

Strange, I once knew a guy from Uzh(g)orod, and that’s how he identified himself.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2022 14:34 utc | 253

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 19 2022 18:55 utc | 45
I agree. Putin’s speeches support this reasoning. Ukraine needs to maintain its borders and there will be no dearth of supporters for this in the population at large. Putin has said that the previous chopping and changing the country has had to endure were all divisions the people themselves had no part in devising, including the more recent coup which was orchestrated by outside entities.
This was the main reason Russia has held off these eight years – not to fragment the country as so many others have done in the past. When peace is restored, it will be a democratic country and have a process of restoration in which all will be involved who desire that in accordence with international law.
To the US: go home. Your country needs you.

Posted by: juliania | Mar 20 2022 15:07 utc | 254

Please stop writing The Ukraine. It’s Ukraine. The use of “the Ukraine” is officially deprecated by the Ukrainian government and many English language media publications. Ukraine is the official full name of the country, as stated in its declaration of independence and its constitution; there is no official alternative long name.

Posted by: Melkiades | Mar 20 2022 15:45 utc | 255

Please stop writing The Ukraine. It’s Ukraine. The use of “the Ukraine” is officially deprecated by the Ukrainian government [snip]
Posted by: Melkiades | Mar 20 2022 15:45 utc | 258

Precisely why I write “the Ukraine.”

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2022 15:49 utc | 256

p.s. @ Melkiades | Mar 20 2022 15:45 utc | 258
I suppose I could call it, as so many others do, “Ukronazistan,” except that that would be an insult to the -stans. I mean, seriously, with each passing day this Zelensky creature compares ever less favorably to, say, Turkmenbashi.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2022 15:55 utc | 257

Could some of you head to Quora.com and Medium.com, where western propaganda is the only discourse we see? I’m trying to reply to some of this horrible articles that keep getting posted but I’m overwhelmed. I’d gladly use some help as I find it absolutely putrid to read what’s posted on those platforms and, worse, not to see any replies opposing those brainwashed views.

Posted by: Melkiades | Mar 20 2022 16:02 utc | 258

I get very pissed when I see those maps of Ukraine territorial aggrandizement. The little piece of land (Budjak) going under the present Republic of Moldova, west of Odessa was for the most historical past part of Moldova and was given to Ukraine same time as Crimea:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budjak

Posted by: Kouros | Mar 20 2022 16:38 utc | 259

Boo@251,
I assume the implication of a “soft” and “flammable” target is that this double-whammy of missiles is expected to cause a lot of very graphic destruction, unlike the previous reinforced underground stockpile which just leaves a hole in the ground without much debris. Hence the follow-up paragraph of disappointment about the lack of images from the scene.
The poster perhaps believes that Kinzhal strikes would produce some unique destructive characteristics. The target being soft, that is, not reinforced or deep underground, also puts into question the reasoning behind the previous use of Kinzhal which, supposedly, was used as a bunker buster. Also noteworthy, in the same vein, is the use of a supersonic missile launched in parallel and with a significantly different flight-time and trajectory, and yet strike the same target with a minimal time-difference.
I think it’s fair to assume that the Russians have reached a state of comfort with the operation that they’ve started dedicating part of their targets for weapons testing. Syria went very much the same way iirc, that is, the critical phase of the operation only saw tried and true, so called “outdated” in the eyes of Western observers, hardware being used. Once they had a grip on the situation, they started bringing over their latest jets, AA and ECM systems in small numbers for limited battle testing into those theaters where they felt safe and confident.
The supersonic munition may have been used to cover up the destruction caused by the hypersonic one. Perhaps the characteristics of the target preclude the complete destruction of the Kinzhal missile, so they decided to make sure no trace of it remains using a Kalibr. Or perhaps they’re just testing the destructive effect of a combined salvo. Either way, it’s definitely for testing purposes.
I’ve seen a fair number of twitter geniuses speculating on whether the use of these armaments indicates that Russia is running out of more conventional weapons and is having to resort to using experimental prototypes. Some of them even consider themselves military analysts.

Posted by: Skiffer | Mar 20 2022 16:59 utc | 260

It would be quite a limited aim if they restrict themselves to the yellow and pink part. It is mostly saving the pro-russian part of the country, not anything like demilitarization and denazification or keeping NATO out of Ukraine. Closer in fact to ‘saving the furniture’ as was the case with Kiev. But will NATO joined up with extreme right groups creep right up to the border?

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 20 2022 17:53 utc | 261

Sorry, not kiev, I mean as was the case with Crimea.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 20 2022 18:02 utc | 262

the ukraine – the borderlands, or do we just say borderlands? how much does it matter??
regarding soft and hard targets… i was thinking taking out people and buildings – weapons and etc are hard targets, while taking out the fuel used for the army vehicles would be a soft target… maybe i have it wrong though..

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 18:47 utc | 263

…Ukraine is the official full name of the country, as stated in its declaration of independence and its constitution; there is no official alternative long name.
Posted by: Melkiades | Mar 20 2022 15:45 utc | 258
So you say Ukraine’s Constitution an Declaration of Soverignty were written in English not in Ukrainian.
I really did not think an Ukraine is so explicitly the colony not a country.
—-
i wonder, should we take offense and nuke all tose wstern barbarians who misname our glorious capital Moskva as “Moscow” or “Moskau” or anything else? Should we?
Or should we just leave those small details of those languages to people who nunlike us actually use those languages in daily life? And expect them equally not to annoy us with little details of OUR daily language?

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 20 2022 18:50 utc | 264

Listening to Scott Ritter now, at least part of it and he expands on the role of Belarus, that Russia is puttin offensive troops there and will put nuclear weapons there, and then NATO will eventually have to make a trade by retreating. I think that is a very interesting angle which would answer one of my questions above.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 20 2022 19:10 utc | 265

Here is a interesting map going back a century when the European empires were being joined by the new monarchy of the US and their funding of the Bolsheviks and their saviour mercenaries..
* Adam Tooze covers it better than many and has maps to look at too!
* ‘ Brest-Litovsk – Imperial Germany and the troubled birth of modern Ukraine’
* https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-96-brest-litovsk-imperial?s=r


Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 20 2022 19:54 utc | 266

Ritter also points out the dog that didn’t bark on the mariupol theatre: the Russians say they didn’t fly over the theatre. Nato has proof of that.
And on the issue of the propaganda war he says Russia is nowhere in this war, they are completely lost.
This could match my own naive judgement that Russian PR , or disinformation, at least on our soil means nothing and probably they didn’t even try. Some of the claims of russian disinfo I encounter are simply about Russians picking up on stuff they didn’t even create.
We have a democratic capitalist tradition which means a combination of power and sophisticated propaganda. They don’t have a democratic tradition and can’t move much.
Contrast that with the ‘magical power’ Putin managed to pack into a 50000 dollar clickbait package.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 20 2022 20:19 utc | 267

I see nothing in this proposal that says that NATO should be rolled back to pre-1997 borders. I see a demand that the post-1997 NATO add-ons not be militarized.
https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790803/?lang=en&clear_cache=Y
And I don’t think that Zelensky was the pick of the US/NATO gang members, I remember that it was Poroshenko.
I would also like to point out that the USA fought a bitter civil war, but the two sides now live in peace, even if there are still hard feelings over 150 years later.
Also that after WW2 the US and Canada, as well as some South American countries, imported many Nazis to live in their countries. They were unrepentant and kept their vicious beliefs and raised their children to be the same but they haven’t caused a civil war yet. In the US, our overlords used them for various nefarious purposes, but they never actually took up arms in the US against US citizens.
I think that Ukraine could stay as one country as long as the US/NATO countries are not allowed to proselytize or send weapons.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Mar 20 2022 20:30 utc | 268

This provides the template for the neutralisation of Ukraine through breakup: Give every single distinct ethnic or cultural group it’s own state, recognised by the Russian federation if by nobody else, and let the West (or the entire globe, it matters not) dispute their legitimacy forever after.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 20 2022 11:17 utc | 242

That is exactly my thought about the future of the country. Ukraine must be split. What are the resources of Galicia?

Posted by: Olivier | Mar 20 2022 20:55 utc | 269

Patrick Armstrong gave up (

Posted by: Bart Schuster | Mar 20 2022 21:02 utc | 270

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OAGgLCp7t4µ
Ritter does not appear to think in terms of this “saving the furniture” and uses the straightforward interpretation of demilitarization and denazification, namely a pretty extensive purge all over the territory. Not convinced there but I leave it as an option.
And he touches on the possibility of nuclear war which is a major concern for me, and points out that during the safe years the competence has left(*) and has been replaced by people like posturing airheads like McFaul(my phrasing).
I find this combination of incompetent arrogance with out of control groupthink exceedingly dangerous.
(*)or been pushed out. Sensible people get pushed out by loudmouths who are good for business. I think now about Pedro Banos and the Moncloa campaign even within the scope of the Integrity Initiative that is the general aim: whenever a politician or a journalist asks an expert make sure it is one of us.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 20 2022 21:19 utc | 271

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 20 2022 19:10 utc | 268
Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 20 2022 21:19 utc | 274
Ritter in my view gives the best analysis of anyone out there about Russian intentions and NATO (lack) of capabilities. He knows NATO military capabilities, he knows the Russians, he knows the US military capabilities, he knows CIA information operations – all because he’s done it all personally, unlike some “military expert” or “geopolitical” analyst who has a degree in history or law or economics or some other non-science, as Martyanov says.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 22:52 utc | 272

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 22:52 utc | 275
—-
Thanks for your many posts with such keen insight, incisive and understandable. To karlof1 as well.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Mar 21 2022 0:12 utc | 273

@ Doug Hillman | Mar 21 2022 0:12 utc | 276
Seconded on both counts! Myself, I’ll also add uncle tungsten to the list.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 21 2022 0:28 utc | 274

Please stop writing The Ukraine. It’s Ukraine. The use of “the Ukraine” is officially deprecated by the Ukrainian government [snip]
Posted by: Melkiades | Mar 20 2022 15:45 utc | 258
Precisely why I write “the Ukraine.”
Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2022 15:49 utc | 259
At this point I’m calling it the Kiev regime. In the upcoming weeks we’ll see what self-determination determines its new name to be.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Mar 21 2022 6:27 utc | 275

@ Vintage Red
I’m sure some smarta$$ will come along to chide you for typing “Kiev” instead of “Kyiv” . . . 😉

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 21 2022 13:09 utc | 276

@malenkov | Mar 21 2022 13:09 utc | 279
“I’m sure some smarta$$ will come along to chide you for typing ‘Kiev”]’ instead of “Kyiv” … ;-)”
To whom I would delight in replying:
Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev Kiev
ps
Kievan Rus

Posted by: Vintage Red | Mar 21 2022 15:18 utc | 277

the name of the place is the least of its problems, but i guess this is why all the language laws were instituted…. have to have the correct words and it can’t have any russian sounding anything, as ukraine has never had anything to do with russia, or the borderlands and etc. etc… or these politically correct language police types are completely fucked in the head!

Posted by: james | Mar 21 2022 16:45 utc | 278

Posted by: james | Mar 21 2022 16:45 utc | 281
I’m amazed that people think Ukraine shares a border with Russia, obviously it is a state within the US which is why the US is defending it in the first place! simples.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 21 2022 16:59 utc | 279

@ pretzelattack | Mar 21 2022 16:59 utc | 282
lol! yes – very simple… i spend too much time in alice in wonderland as it is!!

Posted by: james | Mar 21 2022 20:37 utc | 280

Interesting article. I would like to point to the Bible because it does prophecy future events. As one informed pastor said, ‘Putin needs to protect itself from the west,’ it does have obvious protection from its frozen ports (northern seacoasts), but it needs warm water ports via Ukraine. This will happen, Russia will have control of them and in the future the leader whomever he is will set his sights on Israel. We must look to the future to see the purpose of all these events. I believe in 1914 Ukraine belonged to Russia, and that is what Putin wants. To see his video commentaries on Ezekiel 38-39 which see: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkNQPKOYJLrnO9W4TgyBJWEerivCw78Jo This is the truth, prepare yourselves, Israel will be surrounded by armies which include Russia, Iran, Ethiopia, Libya and others. See the map of Israel and see the nations that surround her! God will destroy them all and it says it in the book of the prophet of Ezekiel. ‘Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 38:23

Posted by: nng | Apr 9 2022 13:41 utc | 281