Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 19, 2022
What Will Be The Geographic End State Of The War In Ukraine

The Ukrainian National Security Advisor has sent a letter to the White House and the CIA to request money in support of an insurgency in Russian held areas:

The document, dated March 6, asked the U.S. "to allocate additional funds for the organization of the resistance movement and voluntary formations of territorial communities throughout Ukraine."

The White House and the Ukrainian embassy vehemently deny that the letter is real. I however do not believe that it is faked. It just was not meant to become public. The CIA has been training 'resistance' militia in the Ukraine since 2015. To request new money for more of it is only natural.

The U.S. will finance a resistance in Ukraine through the CIA just as it did in Syria and just like it did from 1949 until the early 1950s when the U.S. financed anti-Soviet insurgency in Ukraine ended in misery.

But resistance against whom?

The premise seems to be that Russia wants to occupy the Ukraine.

It can be seen in an English language interview the Turkish state TV channel TRT had with Vitaly Klitschko, the mayor of Kiev. Klitschko accuses Russia of wanting to recreate the USSR. He rejects any negotiations for peace and wants the Ukraine to keep fighting.

After the interview the historian Gilbert Doctorow pointed out that it was Russia which first left the USSR to end the financing of outlaying provinces at the center's cost and that no one wants to recreate that situation.

As Putin ones said:

Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain.

Russia has limited aims in Ukraine and will end the war and leave most of the Ukraine when those aims are achieved either by negotiations or by other means. It is the Ukraine that will have to bear the cost for it.

But Zelenski, Klitschko and the U.S. overlords do not want to see it that way. The U.S. wants to keep Russia in the Ukraine to fight it to the last Ukrainian and to damage it that way.

The Washington Post writes that there seems to be no Ukrainian urge to negotiate anything:

The prospects of a near-term deal look bleak, diplomats say, but mixed signals from Zelensky about how close he is to striking an agreement have only heightened anxiety about the trajectory of the negotiations.

“I’m ready for dialogue; we’re not ready for capitulation,” Zelensky told ABC News earlier this week, while vowing to continue fighting Russia for as long as necessary.

Zelensky reiterated that message in even stronger terms on Tuesday when the prime ministers of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovenia traveled to Kyiv to meet him in a risky wartime visit. “He showed very little interest in a negotiated settlement and said Ukraine needed to keep fighting until Putin altered his demands,” said a diplomat familiar with the discussions, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive meetings.

The U.S. seems to be happy with that stand and the secretary of state even wants to widen the war:

“There’s no indication on our end that the Ukrainians are suing for peace. They want to fight,” said a senior U.S. official.

Zelensky will have to sell any peace deal to his own people — a tricky task if he is forced to concede too much. He has been a wildly popular wartime president, but he was an unpopular peacetime one. And Ukraine’s westward ambitions have only been strengthened by Russia’s assault.

Any potential deal will also require buy-in from the West, which will need to lift sanctions on Moscow in exchange for its withdrawal of Russian forces.

But Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Wednesday that a simple withdrawal of troops may not meet a U.S. standard for sanctions relief. The United States “will want to make sure that anything that’s done is, in effect, irreversible, that this can’t happen again, that Russia won’t pick up and do exactly what it’s doing in a year or two years or three years.”

The only way to get to that end state is the total dismantling of Russia. That may indeed be what Blinken has in mind. What plans does he have to make it happen?

When the war to disarm the Ukraine started to my utter surprise I asked what Russia would desire as the geographic end state of the war:

It is difficult to discern what the planed end state of this operation is. Where is this going to stop?

Looking at this map I believe that the most advantageous end state for Russia would be the creation of a new independent country, call it Novorossiya, on the land east of the Dnieper and south along the coast that holds a majority ethnic Russian population and that, in 1922, had been attached to the Ukraine by Lenin. That state would be politically, culturally and militarily aligned with Russia.


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This would eliminate Ukrainian access to the Black Sea and create a land bridge towards the Moldavian breakaway Transnistria which is under Russian protection.

The rest of the Ukraine would be a land confined, mostly agricultural state, disarmed and too poor to be build up to a new threat to Russia anytime soon. Politically it would be dominated by fascists from Galicia which would then become a major problem for the European Union.

Novorossiya was mention by Putin on April 17 2014 during a long Q&A session on Russian TV. The question was about federalization of Ukraine before new government elections in the just regime changed Ukraine.

Putin responded:

Regarding the question of what should come first: a constitutional referendum followed by elections, or elections first to stabilise the situation and then a referendum. The essential issue is how to ensure the legitimate rights and interests of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in the southeast of Ukraine. I would like to remind you that what was called Novorossiya (New Russia) back in the tsarist days – Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Nikolayev and Odessa – were not part of Ukraine back then. These territories were given to Ukraine in the 1920s by the Soviet government. Why? Who knows. They were won by Potyomkin and Catherine the Great in a series of well-known wars. The centre of that territory was Novorossiysk, so the region is called Novorossiya. Russia lost these territories for various reasons, but the people remained.

At that time Putin did not threaten to take Novorossiya but demanded full rights for its population:

Today, they live in Ukraine, and they should be full citizens of their country. That’s what this is all about. The issue is not whether the referendum on decentralisation or federalisation is followed by elections or the elections come before the architecture of the state is changed. The key issue is providing guarantees to these people. Our role is to facilitate a solution in Ukraine, to ensure that there are guarantees. People from southeast Ukraine will ask you, will ask us and the current authorities in Kiev: “Fine, the elections will be held on May 25, but do you want us to recognise their outcome? You’ll forget your promises the very next day and send new oligarchs to Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk, and so on. What about guarantees? We need answers.” I hope that an answer will be found.

No answer was found then and Kiev has since strongly discriminated against those Russian people.

Novorossiya roughly includes the red and yellow areas in the above map. It also includes the valuable Soviet developed iron ore mines and factories of Kryvyi Rih west of the Dnieper river.

Two professional Russia experts now agree with my prediction above but chose slightly different borders than I had originally proposed:

In his latest piece the Canadian Russia specialist Patrick Armstrong writes:

I still do not think that [Russia wants to take ownership of Ukraine] – I believe that Moscow wants a neutral and de-nazified Ukraine that is a buffer between it and NATO. I am also coming to believe that Novorossiya, more or less in its historical borders as formed by Katherine when recovered from the Ottomans, will be independent. The chance that it would remain part of Ukraine has probably passed. As I wrote in 2014 “In short, the West broke Ukraine, it now owns it. Or, to put it more precisely, it owns that part that Moscow doesn’t want. And what part that is is entirely up to Moscow to choose“. Moscow is choosing now.

In a new piece about the coming partitioning of Ukraine Gilbert Doctorow agrees:

I do not deny that a Ukrainian insurgency is a plausible next phase to the war, especially given the irrational position on ‘compromises’ that we see in Klitschko’s interview. However, there are obvious ways for the Kremlin to respond so as to contain the risks to themselves. To begin with, they can realize the threat Putin issued before the war began: to deprive Ukraine of its statehood. Not entirely, but to deprive them of the state in the configuration that has existed since 1991. This means to partition Ukraine, to hive off the territories west of Kiev and the Dnieper River, forming a land-locked rump state with its capital logically in Lviv, near the Polish frontier.

To use the language of the banking community, Russia would thereby create a ‘bad bank,’ containing the poisonous assets of Ukrainian radicalism, very few industrial or other major economic assets, and removed to a distance no longer threatening to Russia. The ‘good bank’ would be central Ukraine, the territories east of the Dniepr River, which have a considerably larger population of Russian speakers, who should respond to Russia’s call to defend their own interests in the public life of the country and come out from the bullying they were subjected to by the nationalists over the past 8 years. This central Ukraine would receive back the Black Sea coast now occupied by the Russians and would enjoy the agricultural and other major economic assets that always defined Ukrainian prosperity.

The areas that Armstrong, Doctorow and I describe have largely Russian speaking pro-Russian populations. Yesterday some 30,000 people left the besiege Mariupol and several of them were interviewed. They all spoke out against the Azov Nazis who still hold parts of the city. They likely would not mind to become citizens of a newly founded Novorossiya that does not submit to a Russian hating government in Kiev or elsewhere.

But to hold that land Russia must first gain it. So how will the war proceed?

Russia will slowly grind down the Ukrainian defenses and then move further into Ukraine up to the new border it wants to achieve. (I do not think that it will include taking Kiev. Russia is currently just threatening it to bind Ukrainian troops.)  It will hold there and help to organize a referendum for the independence from Ukraine in the areas it will hold by then. A new local militia army will be formed to defend that state. Russia will recognize the new state and sign a common defense agreement with it.

Russian troops can then go back to Russia.

As those areas are largely pro-Russian there will be little chance for an effective insurgency within them.

Comments

It strikes me that the only guarantee of Ukraine not joining Nato that would be worth anything would come not from Ukraine itself (because a new government could ignore what the previous government agreed), but from Nato, in writing.
As that seems to be vanishingly unlikely to happen, taking all of Ukraine would appear to be the only way for Russia to guarantee its future security.
Taking part of Ukraine, as the experts are saying, looks reasonable enough, but what’s left of Ukraine would surely be rushed into Nato and then Russia are back to square one.

Posted by: D J G | Mar 19 2022 21:28 utc | 101

The Hetman of TurdPolishBois quibbleth.
“In Russian diplomatic correspondence it was called the Little Russia (Малороссия, Malorossiia);[15] in Polish, Ottoman and Arab sources as Ukraine or Cossakia. The Cossack Hetmanate was called the country of Ukraine (Ukrayna memleketi) by the Ottoman Empire.[16] It has been also referred as Ukraine or the Land of Cossacks (Ukrania quae et Terra Cosaccorum), or Ukrainian State (in the text of Treaty of Buchach).[17]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_Hetmanate

Posted by: Laurence | Mar 19 2022 21:32 utc | 102

@Z | Mar 19 2022 21:09 utc | 95

“Russia could smuggle female agents into the UK among Ukrainian refugees to carry out biological or chemical terror attacks, home secretary Priti Patel has claimed.”

These people are so stupid it is really dangerous.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 19 2022 21:34 utc | 103

Water is flowing from the Dniepr river to Crimea again
The Crimean Canal was filled again. The Ukrainian authorities have been blockading the peninsula for 8 years.
https://t.me/intelslava/22901

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 19 2022 21:36 utc | 104

posted by karlof1:
“Incorporating Ukraine as a Union State will also help the project, but also complicates it since Russia insists that no NATO nation abut its borders, and IMO that would include those of the Union nations too. IMO, as I see it from Russia’s POV and as Russia’s leaders have expressed the issue dozens of times, NATO will need to be rolled back to its 1997 status if not completely dissolved while a not altogether new security arrangement is negotiated–there was nothing wrong with the various OSCE security treaties aside from the fact that NATO forced its signatory nations to violate all of them, which is proven by Russia’s continuing commitment to the concept of indivisible security they incorporated. In reality, only two entities oppose that concept–the Outlaw US Empire and its ally the Outlaw Anglo Empire. I’m sure they’ll be fine with becoming Oceania along with Canada.”
and, that’s the name of that tune! ( ° ͜ʖ °)

Posted by: donten | Mar 19 2022 21:39 utc | 105

Hey, I read here about interview either people from Mariupol who said it was the Azov battalion holding them hostage. But I can’t really find any of them, do you mind sharing some resources I can look up?

Posted by: Ray | Mar 19 2022 21:48 utc | 106

A BAD TRIP FOR AN ARMY VETERAN AND BOOGALOO BOY : https://warisboring.com/us-army-veteran-fighting-in-ukraine-says-he-went-awol-because-it-was-a-trap/

Posted by: opereta | Mar 19 2022 22:02 utc | 107

Russia has learned greatly from NATO actions in Libya and other states.
Its hand was forced.
Yugoslavia is particularly relevant as an historical learning experience. CIA worked on the ground for years in Yugoslavia to provoke and inflame ethnic tensions. It had done the same in Ukraine since 1953 building and nurturing Neo Nazis.
Addionally, there are some warmongering maniacs who believe that they could survive nuclear war if a first strike can be launched from Ukraine into Moscow or other.
Of course, they’ve got DUMBs and we do not.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Mar 19 2022 22:05 utc | 108

Nick @ 32
All wiki articles on Ukrainian history are fiction. Written by nationalist fantasists. Propaganda from Langley.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 19 2022 22:07 utc | 109

O o … Looks like a Nazi turd to me.
“This is the quintessential Russian national socialist view.”

Posted by: Laurence | Mar 19 2022 22:13 utc | 110

I am beginning to feel sorry for Zelensky. He ran, and won, the presidency on a peace platform. Poor fool did not realize that his presidential “security” detail consisted of neo-Nazi thugs who were happy to assassinate any political figure that defied their agenda.
Now he is in situation where he has no choice but to follow orders from the US State dept. His army is disintegrating before his eyes. But the US is insisting that he not surrender, but, at the same time refuse to send in US troops to protect him. Now, Russia is being patient. But for how long?

Posted by: Toivos | Mar 19 2022 22:14 utc | 111

US secretary of Defense travels… Unexpected Greetings.
Bulgaria said No. And citizens rallied…NATO Out” [with Videos]
https://sputniknews.com/20220319/pentagon-chief-met-by-anti-nato-rally-in-bulgaria-with-activists-protesting-military-aid-for-1094018542.html
US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin traveled to Bulgaria on Saturday, where he met with Prime Minister Kiril Petkov to discuss the Ukrainian crisis and apparently asked Sofia to provide military aid to Kiev. The Bulgarian PM said no.
Bulgarian citizens rallied on Saturday against giving its “few remaining weapons” to Ukraine and demanded the withdrawal of NATO from the country.
Demonstrators gathered in front of the Bulgarian Ministry of Defense, where Austin and Petkov met for a joint press conference, waving Bulgarian and Russian flags. They were heard chanting,  “NATO Out.”
Similar protests took place in Rome and Piza, Italy, where activists of a major Italian trade union, USB, opposed sending weapons to Ukraine and called on the government to ditch NATO.[.]
Is it the beginning of the end?

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 19 2022 22:20 utc | 112

Posted by: Richard L | Mar 19 2022 19:33 utc | 66
Freeland: “Our Goal is to Suffocate the Russian Regime”
The current Liberal administration in Ottawa has shown it’s true colors at last. They are a puppet regime controlled by “the hidden hand”. I…

One of the things I like most about living in Canada is that we are totally irrelevant in geopolitics. Freeland and Trudeau can “virtue signal” in both official languages until they turn blue and it makes absolutely no difference to anything.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Mar 19 2022 22:22 utc | 113

I took my initial comments, blended and expanding them into a complete article sharing b’s title. Amongst other modifications, I address the issue of redesigning the Ukrainian state which IMO is key to solving several problems that I barely touched upon here.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 19 2022 22:28 utc | 114

Comment of the day: “The wreckage would be awesome.” 😆

Posted by: Laurence | Mar 19 2022 22:28 utc | 115

Zelensky is just stalling for time and more arms shipments. The Russians are locating the arms and destroying them as soon as found.

Posted by: Dennis18 | Mar 19 2022 22:35 utc | 116

What the US and their minions are doing is nothing short of criminal. They know that Ukraine cannot win this war but are determined to prolong it to the last Ukrainian standing in the hope that a great number of Russians will be killed in the process. My heart bleeds for the lives lost because of the bunch of criminals running the ‘freedom-loving’, ‘civilized’ West.

Posted by: Din Quixote | Mar 19 2022 22:39 utc | 117

@A.L. #69
Yes and no.
How many Ukrainians were murdered in 2021?
If we say the murder rate is say, 6 per 100K – that 2400 murders a year.
The reality is that total civilian casualties to date are lower than that.
This conflict is completely different than Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc etc.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 19 2022 23:07 utc | 118

@ Toivos 114
. ..where [Zelensky] has no choice but to follow orders from the US State dept
Yes, the US drive for instability and war with its profits is dominant but some people have been straying from that, thinking about other people in the world.
Tony Blinken laid it out in a “roundtable with journalists” — actually indoctrination — yesterday.

First, one of the principles that we’ve been inspired by, animated by, is that when we’re not engaged in the world, when the United States is not leading, at the table, in the room, then one of two things: either someone else is and doing things in a way that may not actually advance the interests of the American people or the values that we hold, or maybe no one is and then you tend to have vacuums and chaos and that usually has a way of coming back and biting us. At least that’s the lesson that we take from our history. So we think and we’re trying to help fellow citizens understand why just being out there and engaged as the United States is important. . .here

In short, it’s all about US interests and others don’t matter; make sure you write it up that way or you don’t get a seat in the bus. . .it’s our way or the highway

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 19 2022 23:23 utc | 119

Posté par : Ray | 19 mars 2022 21:48 UTC | 109
A real report on the terror they inflict on civilians.
The reporter is called Christelle and she is wonderful.
Dombass insider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td6w08uJlWs&t=327s
En français

Posted by: la bouteille | Mar 19 2022 23:25 utc | 120

to Richard Steven Hack | Mar 19 2022 18:55 utc | 45
I agree with your take on things, and like that this plan would both eliminate the entire neo-nazi threat to Ukraine and to Russia; and also basically resolve the nato/nuclear weapons systems in ukraine/bio-labs issues which would not be solved if the country is merely partitioned, basically at the Dnieper river. At the least your is a good wish list.
the one thing I definitely don’t agree with is your time frame. This will take considerably more than 9 months. It will take a long while to ‘mop up’ the neo-nazis and their wealthier and more powerful supporters.
It’s a big order, but I see no reason why Russia would be in a any rush on such a critical issue. Russia has shown considerable restraint and patience so far, and will continue like that on all military, political and economic fronts.
of course the potential for some kind of pro-nato ‘insurgency’ fed from Poland etc, well that’s another big issue. The Saker/Andrei thinks (as you know as you post there too) that this might/could/probably would eventually lead to a military confrontation between Russia and the nato poodles in Poland or Romania et. al. I don’t know….

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 19 2022 23:26 utc | 121

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 19 2022 21:01 utc | 92
This is what Westerners do not understand about the land called today Ukraine. They likewise do not understand how Austria in 1846 planted the seed of what today is the Nazi virus in the Western Ukraine/Galicia. This is all history that unless well understood, will not allow people to understand the games that are played on these lands by Anglo-Zionists (before Germans)

Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 19 2022 23:36 utc | 122

The advance of Russia’s forces in Ukraine is being labeled “slow” by those who bought into the scenario of a blitzkrieg operation that would be over in no more than 7 to 10 days. Russia itself may have envisioned that initially, when the strategic goal was simply to secure the Donbas. But as circumstances changed, a significantly broader set of goals was deemed necessary, and hence the military plan was changed. Naturally, a larger plan takes more time to execute, which creates a false impression in the minds of those who lack understanding that Russian forces are bogged down by unexpectedly stiff resistance on the part of Ukrainian forces. In fact, the Ukrainian military no longer exists as a cohesive fighting unit. Individual small units may continue to fight, but their days are numbered.
I think it is entirely possible that Russia savors the “extra” time as an opportunity to more thoroughly eliminate fascist and Nazi elements within the Ukrainian military. That’s is likely what has been happening in the Donbas cauldrons over the past two weeks. Notice how little, if any, reporting there has been by either side of events taking place in that region—only that the cauldrons are being tightened. It’s not hard to imagine the river of blood that is being spilled by those on the inside.

Posted by: Rob | Mar 19 2022 23:36 utc | 123

Haven’t seen this linked yet, Lavrov’s RT Interview on 3/18.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 19 2022 23:39 utc | 124

MoA’s analysis makes sense. I would add that the most productive areas, both agriculturally and industrially, of Ukraine are in the East. Russia would wind up with an even larger slice of the world’s grain supply–plus the entire Black Sea coast and a corridor to Transnistria.

Posted by: Rodrigo | Mar 19 2022 23:45 utc | 125

@ Norwegian
Yeah, but… they’re really hot!

Posted by: Forest | Mar 19 2022 23:48 utc | 126

psychoh@ 9 said” I continue to see Ukraine as the advance point of challenge to empire and an attempt to neuter/end NATO.”
That’s my initial take also…

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 19 2022 23:49 utc | 127

The push west by the Donetsk and Lugansk liberation army supported by Russia is IMO unlikely to come to rest until it has complete policing control over the entirety of today’s Ukraine. The nazi brigands and their fellow travellers will find ‘a home’ in Poland and throughout the west. They wont be coming back any time soon. Europe has its chickens home to roost.
See Mercouris reporting last days of Mariupol.
I cannot see any sane Russian state simply walking back from this struggle and leaving the murderous roots of slaughter and aggravation to some west aligned Bandera hotbed of carefully positioned assaults on the cities and villages of central Ukraine or Belarus. These running dogs of fascism will NOT relent no matter how much some strive to believe it to be true.
And then Russia will prosecute its NATO withdrawal to 1990’s lines.
History is littered with lessons of folly striving to believe that fascist colonisers will be good now that we have given them a lot of our land. USA indians. Mexicans, Palestine, the Scots, …. NO a policing military defence of the homeland and rugged suppression of loony killers attacking civilians. That is where Syria is at just to maintain its core social fabric. I suggest that is where Ukraine will settle in the next six months to year. There will be intrusive policing to ensure civil order and secure citizenry. The avov thugs and their Bandera brigades leave no scope for yielding one millimeter of compassion. We are reaping the malign unfinished business of WWII because we yielded self interest of a few for the future of all.
Consider: what were those 20 to 30 biological weapons laboratories doing in Ukraine?
What was their purpose? Where else are they?
That careful consideration enables us to define the enemies of humanity and whether we should make allowances for them.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 0:12 utc | 128

Best to wait and watch. With Putin running the show, trying to predict what happens next is a fools game. Though I guess various options we can see from our goldfish bowl can be tossed about.
Current operation looks to be about liberating ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine. Two stage operation -first stage liberating ethnic Russians from the Ukraine nazi’s second stage ?
Things to consider – ethnic Hungarians in south west Ukraine suffered similar persecution to the ethic Russians.
Russia’s initial security proposal was based on creating a missile buffer zone between Russia and US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2022 0:14 utc | 129

I think the last thread, a few from Europe said cooking oil was in short supply on shop shelves.
My wife was going shopping today so I asked her to grab a bottle of cooking oil. When she came back I asked her if there was much cooking oil on the shelves and she said that was okay but the crap paper shelves are empty.
Seems as though though the mind set here when the shit hits the fan is grab lots of crap paper.
Laxative sales might not be so good though when uncertainty works its magic.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2022 0:25 utc | 130

uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 0:12 utc | 131
The so called west developed information and bio warfare whereas Russia developed kinetic warfare and an understanding of pulling people out of poverty. I think Russia holds the winning hand.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2022 0:31 utc | 131

Ukraine is the advance point to challenge the Atlantic empire. But the great mistake of trying to change the world is going too far, too fast. Could Russia physically break up NATO now and push it back to 1997 borders? Perhaps. But that would be costly and we should consider how often China says it hopes for a negotiated settlement.
An east-west split with the bulk of Ukraine’s military and ability to manufacture arms destroyed is a good temporary stopping point. Not perfect but reasonable. The actual threat of a cross-border insurgency is pretty low in terms of what it can accomplish. Leaving the roots of that insurgency in that situation means the NATO client is a terrorist, as that’s all that might be accomplished from Galicia and Poland. The AFR need only really control that border and provide enough force to counter possibilities behind it. DPR and LPR are secure, now have an experienced and we’ll equipped military.
A two year plan of restructuring the political status of the eastern oblasts and pumping development money into them will likely provide more internal security than taking all of Ukraine and smashing NATO. Two years is going to see a lot of changes in the west. The migrant work Eastern Europeans are used for in the west will dry up first. Those nations now know NATO won’t actually defend them, and if the Sino-Russian plan works, looking west economically will not compare well. It could be as soon as two years and all the central-eastern European countries want out of NATO. Which is a lovely opportunity for declaring a belt of neutrality between Western Europe and Russia.
Patience. The US is in the process of self-destructing and a wider war is about the only thing that might unite it enough for a second wind. And when the US starts losing that wider war it will absolutely let the nukes fly. Besides, if Russia pushes to the 1997 NATO borders it will be responsible for all of that which will be war torn.

Posted by: Lex | Mar 20 2022 0:31 utc | 132

This is just the opening salvo in moving the global “balance of power” from a Uni-polar one to a Multi-polar one.
The U$A has had it’s way for decades, time for a change, and man o man, are they freaking out.
With the Russia/China alliance as a beginning, we’ll all soon see how the new global “bosses” act.
Will they live up to their rhetoric, or not? The old “bosses” couldn’t, we’ll see..
We’re all very fortunate to live in these times.
Enjoy the show….

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 20 2022 0:40 utc | 133

RSH @ 45; Like the synopsis, kudos!!

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 20 2022 0:43 utc | 134

RSH @ 45; Like the synopsis, kudos!!

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 20 2022 0:43 utc | 135

Toivos #114

I am beginning to feel sorry for Zelensky. He ran, and won, the presidency on a peace platform. Poor fool did not realize that his presidential “security” detail consisted of neo-Nazi thugs who were happy to assassinate any political figure that defied their agenda.
Now he is in situation where he has no choice but to follow orders from the US State dept. His army is disintegrating before his eyes. But the US is insisting that he not surrender, but, at the same time refuse to send in US troops to protect him. Now, Russia is being patient. But for how long?

Your stirrings of compassion are misplaced. He is a typical cutout character that is regularly installed by the empire both at home and abroad. They are comfortable with their role right now but the future of ignominy is set for them. They clink their thirty coins in their pocket as they stride confidently toward their villa in Chile or the Bahamas etc. Assuming they live that long of course.
Zelensky is more malign than your history suggests.
IMO he knew exactly what and who he was from the very beginning. He was and is a fascist enabler. He never once took a firm stand for his people of the eastern regions, only the westies. He never once stood up for a ‘united ukraine’ preferring instead to enable the banderas to turkey shoot the eastern peoples. Being jewish (or is that just cover ?) did not separate him from collaboration in totalitarian genocide then and it does not now.
He prattles empty words about humanitarian corridors knowing full well that the bandera fascist brigades will just kill any one in the open and he never decries their ‘insubordination’.
Zelensky IS the crime against Ukrainian humanity.
My guess is that the USA criminal oligarchs are looking desperately for a comedian right now given they have had a fair trial run of the project in Ukraine and are unlikely to be invaded from the north or south. Who will be the sad little USA comedian to step up?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 0:43 utc | 136

“watch the Azov (Nazi) Bn. burn a Russian POW alive. (warning and this is very real)”
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/03/19/breathtaking-russia-destroys-ukie-ballistic-missile-storage-with-kinzhal-hypersonic-weapon/
No comment.

Posted by: Olivier | Mar 20 2022 0:44 utc | 137

This is worth eleven minutes of your time. German TV 10-4-14 on the Maidan snipers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew9NPPtYScY

Posted by: deal | Mar 20 2022 0:46 utc | 138

Olivier #140
Were they really hypersonic weapons or just the imaginings of the twitterati.
Meanwhile further down one twitter thread is a report by Elijah Magnier:

The level of idiocy is beyond any limit:
Russian cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin, the first person in space, has been stripped of his honours by the #US Space Foundation “in light of current world events”.

Proving once again that the #US Space Foundation are nothing more than vindictive intellectual cripples.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 1:00 utc | 139

History teaches that when you obliterate an enemy, they become your best friend. The US firebombed and nuked the Japs, and they are the most enthusiastic ass-kissers of the US. The Russians flattened Grozny, and the Chechens are their best buddies. Just herd all the wannabe-Polak Russia-hating Ukrainians into Lvov, and the survivors–if any–will be fighting for Russia forever.

Posted by: Dave | Mar 20 2022 1:05 utc | 140

Peter AU1 #134

The so called west developed information and bio warfare whereas Russia developed kinetic warfare and an understanding of pulling people out of poverty. I think Russia holds the winning hand.

Agreed, and I might add that I think the east holds the winning hand here. It is heartening to see the velvet gloves being burned off the western iron fist. Peace will come, and I dearly hope that we can seriously arrest the totalitarian in our midst for hundreds of years or more.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 1:08 utc | 141

Lex “Besides, if Russia pushes to the 1997 NATO borders it will be responsible for all of that which will be war torn.”
I don’t agree with that one. I think the responsibility will lay with those that join US anglo for full spectrum dominance.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2022 1:12 utc | 142

translation
The militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine inflicted regular blows on Donetsk. As a result of the shelling, two mines in the capital of the Donetsk People’s Republic were de-energized. The information is provided by the Headquarters of the Territorial Defense of the Republic.
After the strikes, the power supply of the mine administration. Skochinsky and them. Chelyuskintsev was violated. As a result, 152 people were trapped underground.
Representatives of the Headquarters of the Territorial Defense of the DPR specified: “As a result of the shelling of the VFU in Donetsk, the mine named after. Chelyuskintsev and mine them. Skochinsky.
The Ministry of Coal and Energy of the DPR clarified that underground in the mine. Chelyuskintsev are 47 miners, in the mine. Skochinsky – 85. Rescuers have already begun preparations for lifting people to the surface.
In accordance with the plan for the elimination of accidents of a similar nature, a team of mine rescuers arrived at the scene.
Recall that in the early morning Ukrainian militants shot 25 122-mm shells in Donetsk. The shelling was carried out from the territories occupied by Ukraine.
link is at anna news donbass area..

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 1:13 utc | 143

translation as above both from march 19th
Kiev security forces still remain in residential areas on the outskirts of the city of Rubizhne, Ivan Filiponenko, an official representative of the People’s Militia of the Luhansk People’s Republic, told reporters.
On the eve of the official representative of the Ministry of Defense, Major General Igor Konashenkov, said that the troops of the LPR, with the support of the Armed Forces, had liberated more than 90 percent of the territory of the Republic, and now its units are destroying scattered groups of nationalists on the southern outskirts of the liberated Rubizhne.
“In the city of Rubizhne, fighting is still raging on the outskirts. The enemy has entrenched himself according to the good old tradition in the private sector and is defending from residential buildings. The main part of the city of Rubizhnoye is under our control: the administrative quarter, the main residential area with multi-storey buildings,” said Filiponenko.
The representative of the defense department noted that the location of firing points in residential buildings by the Kiev security forces was the cause of the destruction in the city.

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 1:15 utc | 144

Was pleased to run into one of my favorite voices, Vijay Prashad, talking about Ukraine. He pretty much nails everything. Great piece to circulate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiTxlyiKVT0
I’m in agreement with those that believe that Russia will push to Ukraine’s western borders in order to accomplish its tasks: whether this is accomplished via troops on the ground or via missile strikes is the only question. Clean house and then back away to then establish full control over eastern Ukraine. With the certain success it will show that Russia will be able to strike against any further extremist activities, that it’s more than willing and capable of doing so. This is a warning to the West/US/NATO to end their push at Russia. It’ll be up to the people in western Ukraine to decide their way forward: embrace the extremists and suffer the consequences OR police yourselves and have peace with Russia.

Posted by: Seer | Mar 20 2022 1:17 utc | 145

uncle tungsten@142
I was amazed today-tuning in to the Indian Wells ATP Tennis to see a match between an American (USA Stars and Stripes logo) and a player, one of the top 10 in the world I believe, with no national ID, no flag logo. A man from nowhere.
Such petty, vindictive cowards are those who dominate the international organisations from UNO to the WTA.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 20 2022 1:19 utc | 146

last translation from anna news donbass area.. 2pm local time today, i believe…
The Russian military continues to advance and encircle the city of Vuhledar, an important military strategic city for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, located in the southwest of the former Donetsk region. This information is reported by the press officer of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation Igor Konashenkov.
Over the past 24 hours, according to the military, units of the Russian Armed Forces were able to advance six kilometers and reach the line of Novoukrainsk and Shakhtyorskoye to the north-west of Vugledar. So far, there is only one way out of the city – the highway in the direction of the village of Bogoyavlenka. “In the event that the Ukrainian military loses control over it, the opportunity to get out of the encirclement will be lost for them,” the report says.
Let us recall that earlier the Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed the military administration of the occupied Avdiivka with targeted strikes. On the eve of the militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine posted a video with the destruction of the object on the network.
In Kramatorsk, the building of the SBU administration was also destroyed. The liberation of Donbass by the joint efforts of the Armed Forces of Russia and the DPR continues.

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 1:22 utc | 147

from rt.com “Japan pushes India to denounce Russia
The Japanese PM said that Russia’s actions in Ukraine are ‘shaking the very essence of the international order’”
Huh! Japanese must be salivating about the contested Kuril Islands; if the USA pushed Russia to lose then Kuril Islands are ours ha ha. Or may be Kishida is being a good lap dog.

Posted by: Calgary Guy | Mar 20 2022 1:23 utc | 148

regarding the long range strategy here…. hard to know…
i was wondering if western ukraine lviv area is the new idlib… i wonder if there is some sort of game plan like that?
i think the time line for denazification is much longer then til the end of the year… i think it is much longer… not sure how this plays out so i like peter au’s suggestion to just wait and see..

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 1:25 utc | 149

bevin #149
Thank you, yes petty and mean – not the sort that you might want to trade with at the village market.
On a good note Viktor Medvedchuk has been sprung from house arrest. He is the leading opposition politician that his meanness, Zelensky, incarcerated for being too Russian. I just caught this at Mercouris latest here .
Perhaps the Donbass/Lugansk liberation front people might do a ‘Guido’ rerun (Russian Style) :))

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 1:27 utc | 150

Inside the large fake country in question, I do not see people who can live in the same country. They really hate each other now.
The movement of the Russian forces suggests a partition. They will probably hold a mass referendum on creating a Novorussiya, it will pass and Novorussiya will become the needed buffer state.

Posted by: Robert Rangewolf | Mar 20 2022 1:34 utc | 151

I don’t know whether partition of Ukraine will happen, but the assumption that Russia will hive off Galicia that so many make seems to me too dangerous for Russia. Russia’s true adversary is not the regime running Ukraine but the regime running the West, particularly its military arm, which in Europe means NATO. To be optimally positioned to reckon with the challenge of NATO and to maintain any hope of having its December demands for security guarantees met, Russia has to control the Ukrainian border with NATO. From there it can apply pressure to NATO’s soft underbelly, the Balkans, and place the focus on the US missile emplacements in Romania, where it belongs. This means Russia will have to deal with an insurgency in western Ukraine, but it probably will be faced with that problem even if it leaves western Ukraine alone, the difference being the insurgency will instead be concentrated in the center rather than the west. So, I agree with Scott Ritter and Andrei Martinyanov that Russia must take all of Ukraine. I also think it needs to do so soon, to cut off the flow of weapons and fighters flowing in from Poland et al as far as possible. They can do this by striking from SW Belorus, encircling Lvov and taking the border, while at the same start sealing off the Carpathians by striking north from Transdniestria and sending in troops from the areas north of Odessa. To seal off Ukraine from western aid would also be a major blow to the morale of Ukrainian troops still in the field. This is something Russia could do once Mariupol is taken. It seems to me much more important than seizing Kiev and Kharkov.

Posted by: Midge | Mar 20 2022 1:45 utc | 152

lavrovs comments if you missed them from yesterday.. this link was shared by karlof1 earlier.. thanks karl..
Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s interview with RT, Moscow, March 18, 2022

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 1:52 utc | 153

Robert Rangewolf #153

The movement of the Russian forces suggests a partition. They will probably hold a mass referendum on creating a Novorussiya, it will pass and Novorussiya will become the needed buffer state.

To counter that is the deep knowledge that partition is an old sh!tty little trick that the west always tries so it can manipulate things to its advantage. Think Korea, Vietnam, Ireland, Taiwan and so on.
I doubt any Russian is going to fall for that these days. Nor go so far as to hand over the western bandera infected region to them to continue their evil. I suspect the westies might not be as supportive of their loony right fascist war and social criminals as the banderas would have us think. Time will tell.
Mind you, I expect there will be a deafening chorus for ‘partition’ as the west struggles desperately to stay relevant and vicious.
Meanwhile the Nickel Business is suffering a mental breakdown due to the wests sanction idiocy.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 1:57 utc | 154

Duuude, I reckon Useless Meat Beater’s style sounds familiar.
Reminds me of this old trollish account, I knew it as “Slothtrop”, the resident troll.
Is that you, Sloth?? Long time no see!

Posted by: Cave Canem | Mar 20 2022 1:59 utc | 155

People are forgetting:
*Zelensky is a Fist Puppet of Kolomoisky via the TV Station Shows;
*Hunter&Pops Biden are Fist Puppets of Kolomoisky via Burisma;
Kolomoisky hires Banderan-NeoNazi as his Security;
Kolomoisky and a Fellow Khazar-Ashkenazi Jewish-Tribal defrauded a Major Bank which devalued the UKR Currency;
Kolomoisky OWNs Kiev-Lvov;
Kolomoisky-Zelenskyy are UKR Agents of this Murican-Brittania Run Zionist-Masonic NATO/EU/Davos Racket. The USA/Khazar-Ashkenazi Jewish Diaspora Agents of this Racket are:
**Soros-Schwartz
**Dweeb-Blinken
**Nuland/Nudelman-Khagan

Posted by: IronForge | Mar 20 2022 2:02 utc | 156

There is an article on Ukraine’s possible partition at Counterpunch. It is not very good- the author one Zoltan Grossman believes the war was started in order to win another term in power for VV Putin.
But that is the least of it. What really makes the article interesting is that it takes us back seventy years to the days of McCarthy- the author can barely complete a sentence without signaling that he is totally “On side” with the current hysterical campaign.
For example Russia is reduced to one man- “…Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine on February 24…”
And the man in question is a madman (which goes without saying really, anyone defying Uncle Sam must be insane, every Professor knows that)
“Putin..in his speech laying out his irrational rationale for invading Ukraine three days later…”
Did you get that ‘irrational’? and worse “…In his unhinged February 21 address to the nation..”
The weird thing is that this madman seems to command the obedience of so many others:
“As Putin launched his invasion, his forces pushed into eastern Ukraine from Russia and the eastern Donbass, into southern Russia from Crimea, and toward Kyiv from Belarus. His missile and air attacks have hit military and civilian sites all over the country…”
And the President of Russia is not just unhinged and irrational he tells lies. Lots of them
“…Given Putin’s long track record of lies, we can certainly take any of his claims with a few tons of salt. ”
The question is who Grossman is afraid of? Does he write this kind of guff to curry favour with his students, colleagues or the University admin? Or is it to show Jeff St Clair that he understands the Counterpunch Party Line and toes it loyally?
Or is this display put on to impress the corporate donors- you know ‘progressive’ millionaires and Democratic Party Foundations who make sure that Counterpunch’s directors aren’t starving in garrets.
It’s not just sad that people like Grossman feel obliged to write such dishonest stuff, full of cheap libels at targets chosen by the State Department and CIA. The worst thing is that it is a sign of social morbidity- it is the sound of a culture that has lost its grip and is sliding quickly into decline.
A society in which money and power are not only worshipped but in which truth, honesty and plain dealing are viewed with contempt. Quaint values from the past, like laws against torture and restrictions on government propaganda or counting the votes in elections.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 20 2022 2:15 utc | 157

@uncle tungsten #131
Scott Ritter is saying that also, but it is less clear to me.
The question, IMO, is just how many fanatics are there in West Ukraine or specific oblasts in West Ukraine.
Ivano-Frankivsk oblast, for example, is actually where the most Svoboda/Pravy Sektor votes come from even though Lvov/Lvov oblast is purported to be the far right HQ city.
I also note that there used to be, at least, a lot of Polish speaking, Slovakian speaking, Magyar speaking people in these Western Ukraine oblasts. Lvov oblast was Poland prior to WW2 – and I recall something like 5 districts in Ukraine now that used to be Poland.
If there really are a large number/high percentage of fanatics in those regions – it is probably better to let them stew in a rump Ukraine.
If, on the other hand, the far right fanatics are a thin layer all over Ukraine – then going all the way makes more sense.
I would also note that a NovoRossiya including all of the area east of the Dniepr plus more area cutting off rump Ukraine from the Black Sea plus Odessa – probably would be richer, more populous and more militarily capable than rump Ukraine. This is a very different story than the AFU shelling Donetsk and Lugansk.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 20 2022 2:17 utc | 158

bevin @158 said in part;”The worst thing is that it is a sign of social morbidity- it is the sound of a culture that has lost its grip and is sliding quickly into decline.”
“A society in which money and power are not only worshipped but in which truth, honesty and plain dealing are viewed with contempt. Quaint values from the past, like laws against torture and restrictions on government propaganda or counting the votes in elections.”
Apt description of our latest empire…

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 20 2022 2:30 utc | 159

@ bevin | Mar 20 2022 2:15 utc | 158
Well, it beats Patrick Cockburn’s almost daily ecstatic rants about how the Russian mission in the Ukraine — and, for that matter, the Russian government — are on the verge of collapse . . . I guess.
Kinda makes Graham Peebles’s gurglings about Maitreya, David Yearsley’s music appreciation lectures, and Paul Street’s hysterical ravings about “dismal dollar-drenched Democrats” — while demanding that we vote for them — seem like serious contributions by comparison.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2022 2:34 utc | 160

@ bevin 158
Yes, the “dishonest stuff, full of cheap libels” originates, of course, with the US government. For example when we google “unprovoked russia” we get a whole litany of that false usage which was then picked up by the MSM and others.
–Biden condemns ‘Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified attack …
–Russia’s unprovoked attack on Ukraine – European Policy …
–Statement by President Biden on Russia’s Unprovoked and …
–The Week In Russia: Unprovoked War And ‘Unspeakable …
–President Biden Gives an Update on Russia’s Unprovoked …
–On Russia’s Unprovoked and Unjustified Attack on Ukraine
–Singapore sanctions Russia over ‘unprovoked attack’ on Ukraine
–NATO Secretary General statement on Russia’s unprovoked …
–etc.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 20 2022 2:35 utc | 161

Where can I get accurate numbers for Russian and Ukrianian losses in this military operation in Ukraine?

Posted by: Mark Gaughan | Mar 20 2022 2:52 utc | 162

Mark Gaughan | Mar 20 2022 2:52 utc | 163 “Where can I get accurate numbers for Russian and Ukrianian losses in this military operation in Ukraine?”
Use the term hindsight in any search engine.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2022 2:55 utc | 163

If you partition Ukraine at the Dnieper River, leaving Kiev to the rump state, it makes strategic sense. You maintain the river border, and Kiev has the same incentive as Seoul for not stirring the pot. It’s right over the border.

Posted by: Will | Mar 20 2022 2:57 utc | 164

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Mar 19 2022 22:22 utc | 116
One of the things I like most about living in Canada is that we are totally irrelevant in geopolitics. Freeland and Trudeau can “virtue signal” in both official languages until they turn blue and it makes absolutely no difference to anything.
Australia too!
What a good little lapdog we’ve been, every where America points so go our Hornets to drop bombs on someone esle’s kids.
All ok as long as its not our kids.
Fuck them all. (politicians).

Posted by: BearishPanda | Mar 20 2022 3:09 utc | 165

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, while thoroughly understandable, is as illegal as the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. That said,the US bears a great deal of blame for intentionally pursuing a strategy that everyone from Kissinger to Chomsky warned would provoke a violent reaction from Russia-how often do Kissinger and Chomsky agree?
if Russia withdraws from Ukraine after achieving its stated goal of destroying Ukraine’s military capabilities, Ukraine and the West will get to claim that they defeated the Russian invasion. I’m not sure if that’s a “win-win situation” or a “lose-lose situation,” but I hope it happens soon. It’s a shame to see so many lives lost or destroyed, so much fossil fuels burned, such widespread destruction, such anger and hatred at a time when the world needs to unite in trust in order to work together to stop changing the planet’s climate into one the human race can’t survive in. That’s definitely a “lose-lose” situation.

Posted by: Martin Holsinger | Mar 20 2022 3:14 utc | 166

@ bevin | Mar 20 2022 2:15 utc | 158
does counterpunch offer any good articles anymore?? i have long since stopped reading it..
@ Mark Gaughan | Mar 20 2022 2:52 utc | 163
you can’t…
@ Martin Holsinger | Mar 20 2022 3:14 utc | 167
did you say that about yugoslavia, or libya and syria too??

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 3:38 utc | 167

Twitter guy Rob Lee is a fool.
Two Hundred Ukrainian Officers killed in separate Russian attack. This followed the east of Lviv attack that left 200 + mercenary war criminals dead.
Just ask Gonzalo Lira at the link above.
The Russians have total superiority in this liberation and de-nazification operation and there is zero the west can or will do about it. The Russian escalation is about to commence. The wailing and gnashing of teeth and Karen screaming for partition is just nonsense.
A grand capitulation of the Karen chicken hawkes of the west is coming.
There will be no piece of cake available to them to torture for the next few decades, just a fascist diaspora strutting in their midst and working for the US national security office (with Vindman as Director ;)), the national guard and the police. NOT a good look for the citizens of the west.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 3:57 utc | 168

@ james re Counterpunch:
Somehow Counterpunch hasn’t managed to purge all of its worthwhile contributors. Ramzy Barzoud and Binoy Kampmark are pretty consistently good. Heck, sometimes they even slip up and print Ajamu Baraka. They also sometimes reprint articles by Michael Hudson and Richard Wolff that are admittedly easily available elsewhere. But otherwise a mostly undistinguished lot.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2022 3:58 utc | 169

The Russian hypersonic missiles mean that Russia could decapitate the US Jewish Oligarchy and deep state in their bunkers even before they realized the missiles were launched.

Posted by: Dave | Mar 20 2022 4:00 utc | 170

Will #165

If you partition Ukraine at the Dnieper River, leaving Kiev to the rump state, it makes strategic sense. You maintain the river border, and Kiev has the same incentive as Seoul for not stirring the pot. It’s right over the border.

What rump state? Oh you must mean Poland!
Ukraine will retain its borders, the few surviving nazis will have departed for their precious Polish or Hungarian past which they will glorify as being whiter than white with blue eyes and not a a drop of slav spunk among them.
Meanwhile Ukraine, under a unified and non sectarian government with affiliated regions that choose free association will be self sustaining in gas transmission to Europe, agriculture and mineral resources will prosper unlike ever before.
Ukraine is already somewhat self sustaining in much of its electricity needs and will be able to enjoy LONG TERM gas contracts with Russia at a pricing structure free from predatory capitalists. Some families will no doubt quietly recount tales of the Bandera person who led their country to misery and dictatorship and division before the patriotic forces with Russia’s mighty assistance saved them from partition and ruin.
All the ingredients of liberation and unity are in place, and now, with the freedom of their most preferred opposition figure, fully achievable in the near future.
The divide and rule mantra is pathetic and reflects the desperation of the west and its incapacity to face the reality. Ukraine has earned a century and more of consistency, stability and appreciation of its own lands free from clown cart divide and rule.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 4:14 utc | 171

Media (NY Times etc) coverage of Russian astronauts: “Russian cosmonauts board ISS wearing colors of Ukraine flag” turns out to be a non-story. In contrast to what some Western media outlets viewed as a political expression, the colors refer to symbols of the university that all three men graduated from – Bauman Moscow State Technical University. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 20 2022 4:15 utc | 172

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 19 2022 20:59 utc | 90
“Incorporating Ukraine as a Union State will also help the project, but also complicates it since Russia insists that no NATO nation abut its borders, and IMO that would include those of the Union nations too.”
I disagree. As long as Russia is not bordered by NATO that should be sufficient and I think that’s what they mean – no NATO on Russia’s border. A “buffer state” is only a buffer if it is a compliant neutral or pro-Russia state. Any other can be subverted or taken over like Ukraine was. A reoriented Ukraine qualifies, Belarus qualifies, Khazakstan qualifies.
“NATO will need to be rolled back to its 1997 status if not completely dissolved while a not altogether new security arrangement is negotiated.”
Frankly, I doubt that is going to happen. I think instead we will have a new Cold War with MAD ensured by Russian “military-technical measures.” I just don’t see the West being willing to negotiate any change in their position for the next couple decades. Only when their economies are in dire straits do the strain of maintaining Cold War 2.0 is that likely to change, and even then there’s a good change it will change for the worse.
“The biggest issue I see in the future for Russia is overcoming one of the main components of Russpophobia–that Russia’s leaders want to reestablish the USSR/Tsarist Russian Empire.”
Simple solution to that: Russia won’t do it. Over time the charge will be lessened in impact as Russia doesn’t fulfill their paranoid fantasies.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 4:17 utc | 173

Posted by: Cresty | Mar 19 2022 21:13 utc | 98
Strelkov is dismissed by Andrei Martyanov as a loser and a self-aggrandizer. I have no idea if that opinion is valid, but probably worth being aware of it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 4:20 utc | 174

@ malenkov | Mar 20 2022 3:58 utc | 170
thanks malenkov…. if you find some good articles – like bevin – feel free to share them… thanks..

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 4:25 utc | 175

c1ue #159
Thank you, note that Putin as I recall made three commitments: de-nazification, de-militarisation, de-sovietisation.
Putin seems to be man of his word in these things.
I think the de-militarisation here may mean no Ukrainian army or air force or navy.
Just a well developed police force likely without any bandera types on staff.
Perhaps there will be gun control as in Australia where licensing is strict and policed and caliber and magazine capacity limited. That would be a very good start. It will go a long way to demolishing the rightist bullies and their murderous imaginings plus enable a rapid cleanup after the cessation of hostilities. Sure there will be remnants but if the police service is well designed and well paid there will be scope for that. See Syria’s experience of gradual discovery and eradication of weapons.
How much would Ukraine prosper if it did not waste national revenue and labor force on military service? Imagine that.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 4:27 utc | 176

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 19 2022 23:26 utc | 124
“This will take considerably more than 9 months. It will take a long while to ‘mop up’ the neo-nazis and their wealthier and more powerful supporters.”
That’s certainly possible. I estimate nine months primarily for the military side of the cleanup and the reorganization of the government. As Martyanov says, it is the Ukrainians themselves that will do the cleanup of neo-Nazis with Russian assistance. That won’t requires tons of Russian troops to remain in country. The main point is to avoid the appearance of an “occupation” by having Russia troops hanging around in every major city for a period of years. That’s not going to work.
“of course the potential for some kind of pro-nato ‘insurgency’ fed from Poland etc, well that’s another big issue. The Saker/Andrei thinks (as you know as you post there too) that this might/could/probably would eventually lead to a military confrontation between Russia and the nato poodles in Poland or Romania et. al. I don’t know….”
I think Russia can handle any possible insurgency. By all accounts it’s already falling apart between Russian attacks and the poor handling of the volunteers. Given that the new Ukraine government with Russian help can control the borders, making it difficult to move significant quantities of weapons and troops across them, added to a counterintelligence operation both inside Ukraine and inside Poland and other countries involved, I think it’s quite doable to control it. There may be constant violence and incursions but nothing that can either overthrow the Ukrainian government or threaten the bulk of Ukraine. And that’s all that matters – preventing another Maidan.
Scott Ritter says the CIA sucks at organizing insurgencies. Also, Ukraine is not Afghanistan or Iraq, and Russia is not the US. Ritter says Ukrainians are not Afghans, born with an AK-47 in their hands, and just don’t have the combat spirit. All in all, I just don’t see an insurgency as a significant issue – if Russia does things the right way. And that means not partitioning the country and leaving hostiles this side of the border with Poland.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 4:30 utc | 177

@45
I have to agree with you fully. Me thinks if the west continue their quest for hypersonic weapons, they will install some of those in the NATO countries.
Russia will still have the same problem but it has now Ukraine where it can also deploy its state of the art defense systems to counter such threats.

Posted by: andreweed | Mar 20 2022 4:37 utc | 178

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 1:25 utc | 151
“i was wondering if western ukraine lviv area is the new idlib… i wonder if there is some sort of game plan like that?”
That seems to be what everyone is assuming. But Ukraine is not Syria. Idlib had some protection by Turkey which neither Russia nor Syria wanted to get involved with absent an immediate need. Leaving western Ukraine to NATO is just asking for trouble. I can’t believe Russia will do it. They want those Nazis GONE.
“i think the time line for denazification is much longer then til the end of the year”
No doubt. But the main moves are 1) eliminating the militias, which will definitely be done by then, 2) banning the parties and militias legally, which can definitely be done by then via a caretaker government even before new elections, and 3) identifying and deporting all influencers – that would be ongoing, but could easily be at an advanced stage in nine months.
“i like peter au’s suggestion to just wait and see..”
Well, of course, no one can know. I’m just specifying the most logical courses of action for Russia and my estimate of the time line could be, in fact probably is, way off as everything always moves slower than one expects them to. Witness the “lightning war over in ten days” – didn’t happen.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 4:40 utc | 179

Posted by: Robert Rangewolf | Mar 20 2022 1:34 utc | 153
“The movement of the Russian forces suggests a partition.”
I see no evidence of that. So far Russian forces are concentrated in three areas: 1) Donbass, obviously, where the bulk of the enemy is; 2) the south coast, obviously an important strategic target; and3) Kiev, also an obviously important strategic target. It’s far too early to make any conclusions about where the Russians will go once those three areas are solved and the Ukrainian government has collapsed.
Remember that probably half the Russian military force allocated to this operation are still sitting on the Ukrainian border, supposedly including 1 Tank Army, ready for the next phase of the operation. That phase will be the push to the Polish border and the final collapse of the Ukrainian military in my opinion.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 4:45 utc | 180

@Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 4:14 utc | 172
“blue eyes”
Countries With The Most Blue-Eyed People
Rank Country Percentage of Population That is Blue-Eyed
1 Estonia 89
2 Finland 89
3 Sweden 78
4 Iceland 75.15
5 Netherlands 60.9
6 Denmark 59.6
7 Ireland 57
8 Norway 55
9 Poland 52.5
10 Scotland 50
11 England 48
12 Wales 45
13 Slovenia 44.7
14 Germany 39.6
15 Belgium 28.9
16 Ukraine 25
17 France 22
18 United States 16.6
19 Spain 16.3

Posted by: librul | Mar 20 2022 4:45 utc | 181

NYT. is reporting major gains by Russians on all fronts.
So, things must be getting really bad for Ukraine, if that yellow rag concedes gains by Russians.

Posted by: Juno | Mar 20 2022 4:47 utc | 182

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 20 2022 2:17 utc | 159
“The question, IMO, is just how many fanatics are there in West Ukraine or specific oblasts in West Ukraine.”
It doesn’t matter. Fanatics without resources or influence don’t count. Identify, arrest and deport the ringleaders down at least two or three levels. Ban any civic influence of the parties and militias. Get rid of the oligarchs financing them. What’s left? Disgruntled individuals. Any movement started can be surveilled and removed by counterintelligence forces.
A “rump Ukraine” by definition is just trouble if for no other reason than there is no one attempting to control it, while leaving NATO and the CIA in charge. It’s ridiculous. Better to take it under the wing of the new Ukrainian government, backed by Russia, in order to keep an eye on it and be able to directly interfere with it.
Scott Ritter pointed out one instance of the CIA organizing an insurgency – I forget what country he was referring to. When it came time to launch it, the Russians, having thoroughly infiltrated it, arrested the entire lot, called up the CIA in essence and said, “Thanks for organizing all our enemies in one place!”
I see that as the same situation here if the CIA want to try it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 4:52 utc | 183

@ Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 4:40 utc | 180..
you might be right on russia going all the way to the polish and etc. border and dealing with western ukrainian – lviv area and etc…. maybe you are correct.. i can’t rule that out… i do believe this whole thing is going to last longer then many wish.. thanks for your comments!
@ Juno | Mar 20 2022 4:47 utc | 183
guess they didn’t get the automatic paycheck from the cia the past day or something! they thought they’d put a little pressure on their pay masters, but flipping the story for a moment… can’t be due them wanting to cover the truth of the matter!

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 4:53 utc | 184

librul #182
Thank you
:))

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 4:58 utc | 185

Juno #183

NYT. is reporting major gains by Russians on all fronts.
So, things must be getting really bad for Ukraine, if that yellow rag concedes gains by Russians.

Thank you for that as it reminded me of this take home statistic that the ‘stalled’ brain types detest to hear:
The Donetsk/Lugansk Russian front has moved forward 16 kilometers per day sine the liberation front got up and going.
That is everybody else’s knowledge, so f#ck the NYT.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 20 2022 5:03 utc | 186

this may answer some of the questions about the geographical end-state of this …uh…operation. Or at least poses some more interesting questions / dilemmas for all involved. and what could go wrong?
We might know within the next few days – would be a game-changer, don’t y’all think?
…. and reportedly Belarus has also recently finished evacuating its embassy in Kiev
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1505237705466294272
Large convoy of Belarusian military vehicles heading for Brest near the Polish border.
Worrying signs from Belarus in the past 48 hours.
Fears grow of a RU-BEL invasion of Ukraine along the Polish border to cut off access to western weapons deliveries.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 20 2022 5:13 utc | 187

@ michaelj72 | Mar 20 2022 5:13 utc | 188
thanks… makes sense..

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2022 5:22 utc | 188

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 20 2022 5:13 utc | 188
Agreed. That would make sense. It also gets a march on Western Ukraine depending on the size of the forces involved. Plow right down the border of Poland to Lviv. This would also cut off the concept of using the CIA “mercenary army” to do an incursion into Western Ukraine in a “Save the Nazis” campaign to secure Western Ukraine. I will be watching for this as it will prove my conception about Russia wanting to deal with Lviv and the Polish border. If the Russian and Belarus forces surround Lviv, that’s it – it’s all over for predicting Russia’s intentions with regard to Western Ukraine.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2022 5:40 utc | 189

Not sure how true this is, given the source:

Anti-Russian Railway Workers in Belarus Reportedly Sabotaged All Rail Traffic to Ukraine
EditorDavid 2 hours ago 18
“Belarusian railway workers have reportedly cut off all rail connections between their country and Ukraine,” reports Germany’s public broadcaster DW: Ukrainian railway chief Olexander Kamyshin thanked Belarusian railway workers for this claimed act of sabotage on Saturday. “As of today, I can say there is no rail traffic between Belarus and Ukraine,” Kamyshin was quoted as saying by Ukraine’s Unian news agency. Kamyshin said that he would not give further details

https://m.slashdot.org/

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 20 2022 5:59 utc | 190

Ministry of Defense: Nazis in Ukraine are preparing provocations with chemical substances to blame Russia
MOSCOW, March 19 – RIA Novosti. In Ukraine, the Nazis are preparing provocations using toxic chemicals to blame the Russian military for what happened, Colonel-General Mikhail Mizintsev, head of the Russian National Defense Control Center, said at a briefing.
“In Sumy, at the Sumykhimprom chemical plant, nationalists mined storage facilities with ammonia and chlorine in order to mass poison the inhabitants of the Sumy region if units of the Russian Armed Forces entered the city,” he said, calling it “completely outrageous facts.”
In addition, in the village of Kotlyarovo, Mykolaiv region militants of nationalist formations are preparing provocations with the use of poisons, Mizintsev pointed out.
“For this, containers with toxic chemicals have already been delivered to the building of the local elementary school, which are planned to be blown up when Russian troops approach,” the general added.
He stressed that the Russian side warns the entire civilized world and international organizations in advance about the provocations of the Ukrainian authorities, in which they again want to blame the Russian military, as has happened many times before.
“All this is being done with the direct support of the leadership of the United States and a number of countries of the European Union, which consider Ukraine as an instrument of anti-Russian policy,” the general said.

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 20 2022 6:05 utc | 191

This is the second time since the invasion/police action began that the Russian MOD has warned of a false flag chemical attack sponsored by the US

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 20 2022 6:06 utc | 192

21 (twenty one) those are the amount of accumulated years the USA has known peace since 1776. And I bet that in those 21 years they planned for war or have pushed others to war.

Posted by: MARS | Mar 20 2022 6:09 utc | 193

RIA: Azov Battalion planning to carry out a terrorist attack in Lviv against US and Western diplomats, blame on Russia
Surrendered SBU officer announced the preparation of terrorist attacks in Lviv
MOSCOW, March 19 – RIA Novosti. Ukrainian Nazis from the Azov Battalion are planning to carry out a terrorist attack in Lviv against diplomats from the United States and other Western countries in order to present it as a targeted attack by the Russian military, Defense Ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov said.
“I want to emphasize that the leadership of the Kiev regime is aware of the plans of the nationalists, but does not take any action to prevent their implementation. The Kyiv nationalist regime plans to present attacks on diplomatic facilities of the United States and Western countries as an allegedly “targeted attack of the Russian Armed Forces,” the general added.
According to him, the main goal of the provocation is “to increase pressure on NATO countries to introduce a no-fly zone over Ukraine and provide additional weapons.”

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 20 2022 6:13 utc | 194

The disease of Neo-MCarthyism continues it’s spread within the open source technology domain:

While the Open Source Initiative’s (OSI) definition of open source software is quite clear on the matter — there must be “no discrimination against persons or groups” and “no discrimination against fields of endeavor” — the issue of who should be allowed to use open source software, according to ethical considerations, has long been debated.
Over the last month, this topic has again become a focus of debate as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has led to developers calling for blanket bans by companies like GitHub and GitLab; and to some developers even taking action. Earlier this month, we wrote about how open source gateway Scarf began limiting access to open source packages for the Russian government and military entities, via its gateway.

https://m.slashdot.org/story/397647
Funny, I’ve never seen any significant debate on limiting access to open source technology to Western militaries despite their use in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Palestine etc …
The hypocrisy is mind blowing.
In any case, this might be a good thing given the plethora of high quality open source solutions coming out of Asia and the Russian Federation itself.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 20 2022 6:14 utc | 195

I told you I would check in in a week to point out to you that there has been no false flag. So here we go: Hi guys! It’s been a week and there’s been no false flag.
Now, you just keep predicting one, and I’ll check in again next week to point out to you that it’s two weeks and there has been no false flag.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 20 2022 6:15 utc | 196

1. Fuuuuu …Kin’z’Hell!!
2. You can run and hide – but Johnny how you gonna get rid of your ink work?
(The AskaNazis got their Gollum’s to tattoo themselves! Lols)
3. The land belongs to the peasants and years of trying to fix the Ukerainian Parliament to agree to let foreigners buy it from the peasants FAILED multiple times even the green screen clown couldn’t fool them into agreeing that resource sell off- these parliamentarians got that right! – Russia will guarantee these rights and protect the farmers who are the providers of bread for many a nation.
4. Genetic Warfare! Pandora’s box opened.
The punishment must be lethal for that crime against Nature.
Some people will never got over the self delusion of being born to be God and messing with Nature – hence the whole ‘you can be whatever you want to be – another form of self mutilation like Nazi symbology – but this one as mental slavery. (Rhinoplasty of course has been wide spread amongst children for a century now)
5. Red/Brown , left/right shown to be just another Great Con like all otger religious nonsense – created centuries ago to keep humanity slapfesting each other like the idiotic Stooges we are encouraged to be from birth.
Interesting how many have ignored that subtle recognition and dig at the Leninists in Putins speech
6. The Empire is Dead
it is just a phantasm that refuses to go to its grave.
Remember zombies have to be destroyed, they are unnatural and imaginary and just another monsters of our own minds).
Headless chickens are fabled to run around before giving up their bones for soup too.
7. The West does not matter, Americans and ‘new worlders’ don’t matter they are just another invention as above, a self delusional separation from the genetics they originate from – just another tattoo and imperial new clothes hiding the same naked arsed strutting around the planet for a few generations until being disposed of and relabelled as the next Gollum of the chosen.
8, Assad’s lecture addresses most of the above and states the solution is to turn our heads from the ‘West’ mirage to the East reality – look always to the rising sun and not the fading day. Light not darkness is our – humanity’s choice for the many billions not the few hundred millions.
Some thoughts as dawn breaks in London this fine spring Sunday. Amen.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 20 2022 6:21 utc | 197

FIW I agree with b. Ukraine has to be partitioned into two, preferably three states. It’s currently an artificial state too easily manipulated as we have seen. This might require an extended occupation.

Posted by: RJB | Mar 20 2022 6:31 utc | 198

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 20 2022 6:15 utc | 197
You’re about to look like an idiot.
Stay posted.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 20 2022 6:31 utc | 199

With this kind of propaganda, there is just too much hatred. Russia has to keep pushing West until the pseudo-state of Ukraine is completely liberated. Anything less than that will be interpreted by the globalist dictatorships of the West as a sign of weakness.
#CancelRussia and the rise of global nazism.
https://readingjunkie.com/2022/03/20/cancelrussia-and-the-rise-of-global-nazism/

Posted by: Ian Kummer | Mar 20 2022 6:42 utc | 200