Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
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March 27, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-36
Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
Comments
2) Russia is cutting off energy and other exports to hurt people! Posted by: Olivier | Mar 28 2022 20:40 utc | 401 Posted by: bjd | Mar 28 2022 19:24 utc | 375 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 28 2022 20:43 utc | 402 More from Lavrov’s interview, about the new Era of democracy versus authoritarianism:
That’s a very strong argument to which Serbians will readily agree–and the world outside the West. Lavrov probably could have made this same statement at the 2021 UNGA but didn’t. Those two paragraphs deserve amplification. UMB@400. obviously its true about self petting and going blind. Posted by: Tannenhouser | Mar 28 2022 20:54 utc | 404 Quote: Peter AU1 Posted by: GreyRaven | Mar 28 2022 21:00 utc | 405 One issue that I suspect will rapidly emerge as a result of non supply of Russian gas is racially based rioting. Now there are something like 1.3 million Syrians in Germany, already displaced, along with many from poorer European countries including Turkey and now i assume Ukraine. Now when those German factories start to cut back on staff as they must, these new immigrants will be the first put off. With no jobs or security, crime will rise as it always does and racial/ethnic tensions will inflame. Posted by: watcher | Mar 28 2022 21:10 utc | 406 I’m coming around on my support of Trump. Posted by: Cadence calls | Mar 28 2022 21:26 utc | 407
But the US elite doesn’t believe there will be significant blowback. By the time they realize they were wrong, it will have been much too late. Posted by: malenkov | Mar 28 2022 21:34 utc | 408 Posted by: watcher | Mar 28 2022 21:10 utc | 410 Posted by: GreyRaven | Mar 28 2022 21:53 utc | 409 Posted by: Circe | Mar 28 2022 17:36 utc | 342 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 28 2022 21:56 utc | 410 Roger @ 403 Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 28 2022 21:58 utc | 411 Posted by: Useless meat beater | Mar 28 2022 20:24 utc | 400 Posted by: JMW | Mar 28 2022 22:00 utc | 412 https://journal-neo.org/2022/03/28/fed-inflation-lies-russia-sanctions-and-a-new-world-order/ Posted by: Virgile | Mar 28 2022 22:25 utc | 413 @ c1ue 401 Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 28 2022 22:28 utc | 414 374 – “more on “Nazis, where”” Posted by: CalDre | Mar 28 2022 22:46 utc | 415 388 Cortes – “Both parties in the gas contracts may be able to plead frustration of contract due to supervening illegality”. EU in its characteristically self-serving, smug, and superior way avoided that scenario by carving out gas payments to Russia from the sanctions. Hence Russia can be paid in Euros and Dollars, it’s just they can’t use them once they are paid. Hence “frustration of purpose”. Posted by: CalDre | Mar 28 2022 22:53 utc | 416 390 – Roger – “The resultant economic and financial crash as the German (and European in general) economies fell apart would be a massive blowback on the US when the financial system is so unstable and weak”. You would see lots of defaults on loans and then also on the massive “derivatives” market. Commie (for thee, not for me) Empire being what it is, they will use taxpayer dollars to bail out the elite, in order to “protect the economy” (nationalizing the industries and selling them would not occur to them, because the hereditary oligarchs would lose something, and that’s not allowed in the Empire, which they run. Posted by: CalDre | Mar 28 2022 23:00 utc | 417 The G7 has rejected Russia’s demand to pay for gas in rubles. Posted by: Olivier | Mar 28 2022 23:02 utc | 418 410 – watcher – “racially based rioting” Posted by: CalDre | Mar 28 2022 23:05 utc | 419 418 – Don Bacon – “the damaged parties are entitled to pursue claims for damages provided by any termination provisions that may be contained within the contract. . .Meanwhile, no gas from Russia” Posted by: CalDre | Mar 28 2022 23:10 utc | 420 422 – Olivier – “those “sanctions” are imho unconstitutional”. Typically those constitutional provisions protect only citizens. Granted Abramovitz is a Portuguese citizen but I don’t think Portugal seized his assets. Posted by: CalDre | Mar 28 2022 23:15 utc | 421 German daily DIE WELT once more tries to convince the audience who’s winning, this time by a fan of Anne Applebaum, Hannes Stein:
This really reminds me of what Gonzalo Lira said about women in his Victoria Nuland episode. You don’t love me! I don’t love you. RUSSIA is amassing troops! Ukraine is amassing troops. Posted by: Nervous German | Mar 28 2022 23:22 utc | 422 precisely, they can shut down their industry and freeze instead. Decisions, decisions. Posted by: Olivier | Mar 28 2022 23:29 utc | 423 Posted by: CalDre | Mar 28 2022 23:15 utc | 426 Posted by: Olivier | Mar 28 2022 23:38 utc | 424 This war is horrific, but the Ukrainians are winning it. Posted by: Olivier | Mar 28 2022 23:43 utc | 425 The europers still have a couple days to buckle. Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 28 2022 23:43 utc | 426 A cartoon published in Ukrainian-language Soviet newspaper Radyanska Ukrayina on March 15, 1945: image. Posted by: S | Mar 28 2022 23:47 utc | 427 @Olivier #405 Posted by: c1ue | Mar 29 2022 0:26 utc | 428 433 – c1ueless – Republican Party is doing nothing except serving the same masters as the Democrats do. Sure they’ll talk trash like WWE muppets, because there are plenty of idiots in the world who take it seriously, but end of the day it’s all a game, a/k/a the Democracy Farce. Playing on YOUR TV, daily. Posted by: CalDre | Mar 29 2022 0:33 utc | 429 @Don Bacon #408
Given that the US and Qatar’s total LNG capacity per quarter is something like 15 bcm = 60 bcm per year – you can see how utterly fucked the EU is without Russian energy. Posted by: c1ue | Mar 29 2022 0:33 utc | 430 c1ue – 435 – Qatar’s gas has to pass through the Strait of Hormuz. LNG is very explosive, could you imagine what a single mine, attributable to nobody, could do to an LNG ship? Posted by: CalDre | Mar 29 2022 0:44 utc | 431 Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 28 2022 19:08 utc | 372 Posted by: Doug Hillman | Mar 29 2022 0:47 utc | 432 Herr Habeck is a piece of work, speaking for the G7 no less. . . Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 29 2022 1:07 utc | 433 Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 28 2022 19:08 utc | 372 Posted by: juliania | Mar 29 2022 1:20 utc | 434 Race is a fact, class war or none. It’s absolutely a viable category. Or if it’s not it’s a fake category that has profound implications. Posted by: John Kennard | Mar 29 2022 1:21 utc | 435 I see some idiot crackers on here suggesting maybe the Latins are lazy; well jackwad; I’ve played rugby for 12 years, and done landscaping for 35 years; I’ve tried to hire Aussies, Kiwis, English; they’re pretty useless as to work ethic; but I hear them bitch; same with the white folk I know, but Latins will work harder in one day than you may in your whole life. Fucking lazy snobs sitting on your ass claiming others don’t work. Fuck YOU! I’d say it to your face, and kick your ass to boot; lazy entitled racist fuckwits. You morons come on here, bitch about empire but never reflect on how it’s powered by the “lazy folk” you disdain; FUCK YOU! Any of you that may have served in the military never faced lack of equipment and resources, but you sure got your asses whipped; dumb shit, delusional fucks Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 29 2022 1:46 utc | 436 Has anyone been able to confirm that Mariupol is liberated? I saw a vid of captured Azov troops being paraded through the streets but not sure of its authenticity. Posted by: thecelticwithinme | Mar 29 2022 2:31 utc | 437 James, one thing that Libya made clear was that the State Dept is overrun by the “Agency.” And, all this activity is CIA based, and thus Nuland=CIA; now the CIA has an anglo-saxon core that will look at her and the neo-cons askance. Again, we forget that in Covert ops there are by nature many different factions, and odd bed-fellows are the order of the day. Command and control isn’t 100%, and not all activities are “ordered” in the way military actions are. Again, CIA aligned assets may have their own agendas, so, it’s hard to know, and of course “plausible deniability” is always key. Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 29 2022 2:50 utc | 438 Zelensky is the new Hitler and nazis are globalists Posted by: Ian Kummer | Mar 29 2022 2:58 utc | 439 @ ScottinDallas | Mar 29 2022 2:50 utc | 443 Posted by: james | Mar 29 2022 4:03 utc | 440 Robert Lindsay | Mar 28 2022 10:14 utc | 218 Posted by: John Kennard | Mar 29 2022 5:13 utc | 441 Posted by: G Boths | Mar 29 2022 8:01 utc | 442 JFK was a master of warmongering who almost got the world blown up over silly political posturing (after the Cuban Missile Crisis passed without the world getting nuked, the US and Russia reached an agreement, that the missiles which had been installed in Turkey would be quietly withdrawn, as well as the missile in Cuba, with the proviso that the US action in withdrawing the Turkish missiles would be kept secret, obviously to protect Kennedy who was widely admired as the hero of the moment who averted nuclear war by “standing up to the Russians”. Biden at least has the excuse of dementia, tho he would no doubt be pursuing the same cold war containment policies whether demented or not. Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 29 2022 9:07 utc | 443 As I’ve not seen anything mentioned here, I thought I’d share a theory that I saw elsewhere with the bar concerning the start of the war. Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Mar 29 2022 9:59 utc | 444 JFK was a master of warmongering Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 29 2022 10:03 utc | 445 Posted by: Mr Green Jeans | Mar 29 2022 9:40 utc | 197 Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 29 2022 10:08 utc | 446 Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 29 2022 10:03 utc | 450 Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 29 2022 10:10 utc | 447 “The Cuban Missile Crisis is one of the most studied moments of the Cold War. It is a story every eighth-grade American child is taught and is paraded about as a victory for the United States. In most retellings, the US is seen as a victim in an act of unprovoked aggression by the Soviets. After some show of US Naval force, this narrative ends with the Soviets running away with their missiles. What is often forgotten is the fact that the Soviets were not acting unprovoked. In 1961, after a failed Bay of Pigs invasion, the United States moved American Jupiter ballistic missiles into Italy and Turkey. This put American missiles within range of Moscow. In response, the Soviets sent nuclear warheads to Cuba. For the first time in the Cold War, both the US and the USSR had a real threat posed against their mainland.” Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 29 2022 10:19 utc | 448 thecelticwithinme | Mar 29 2022 2:31 utc | 442 Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 29 2022 10:43 utc | 449 what y’all miss about the Russian contracts is that the contract price is no doubtedly far lower than the present spot price. All the debate about Rubles, Euros, Gold, barter all that will be resolved to Putin/Russia’s satisfaction lest they have the opportunity to pay much higher prices. Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 29 2022 11:08 utc | 450 As I’ve not seen anything mentioned here, I thought I’d share a theory that I saw elsewhere with the bar concerning the start of the war. Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 29 2022 11:24 utc | 451 John Kennard, no, you’re just an idiot bigot and easily propagandized. W Bush, Obama, Trump and now Biden have cracked down on the Southern border; you’re as delusional about that as most are about this war. Idiots who support the “wall” are delusional, a Wall is the most expensive, least effective way to control the border. The destruction to property values, imagine you’re a rancher in the desert and wall suddenly separates you from the main water source of the region, what, pray tell do you suppose that does to property values? What the fuck do you know about Eminent domain? What do you know about the actual border check being 60 miles up road? No, you’ve allowed yourself to be fooled and deceived cause you’re racist pieces of shit; neo-Nazis of your own stripe. We’ve been deporting and deporting, the economy has driven off many more. You DON’T know the history that after every immigration crackdown we’ve had to create guest worker programs to off-set the loss of workers. Robert Lindsey and John Kennard you are both morons, terribly informed and bigots. There IS no delineation of race; it’s an utterly meaningless pursuit, the genetic weapon can’t be crafted; but you Nazis keep trying. FUCK YOU HYPOCRITICAL DIPSHITS! Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 29 2022 11:25 utc | 452 Pretzel, you make some logical jumps in your Kennedy condemnation. It’s unknown if Kennedy was in on those, the Bay of Pigs was a pre-packaged deal from the Deep State of the day, he took the mildest approach, they, much like today, created the spark, and the President was set up to respond to the crisis, ramp up, look tough. That is exactly what is happening here. (not with the Americans, as Biden can’t plead ignorance) but the German leaders likely can. Kennedy too tried to split the baby in Vietnam. We know that every person in JFK’s cabinet recommended we escalate to WW3 and only the President took his course of suing for peace. Again, you make the hasty generalization conflating a CIA a military and a political cabinet all under the undivided, unattenuated whole of a single administration. Your point still holds, just hasty to lay all that at JFK. JFK took on/carried on with Ike’s entire deep state, military brass and spooks. We know Ike was spooked, we know that the U2 incident happened in contravention of Ike’s orders to stop all surveillance overflights until the 1960 Paris Peace talks where Ike hoped to push for treaties. But, military sent a sabotaged U2 over deep Soviet lands on MAY DAY. The plane wasn’t able to fly at 80k but was sputtering and had to fly closer to 60k ft, just within range of Soviet anti-aircraft. The U2 was designed to sever the pilot’s thighs when ejecting, but Gary Powers got tangled in his air hoses and ejected oddly; likely sparing his life. Ike was certain Gary Powers was dead, bled out before his parachute could bring him to the ground; but Kruschev had a surprise for Ike; and peace wouldn’t be coming. Again, Ike didn’t have his military/spooks under control; a new JFK was no match for them either. His own culpability is harder to assess. He seemed to try to split the middle sort of pandering to all sides. It’s reasonable to conclude his reticence to use the military/spooks more assertively is likely what got him killed. Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 29 2022 11:41 utc | 453 I don’t think it’s fair to say b and others misread the situation. We figured Ukraine/NATO would concede; and not allow the destruction of the country. It was a game of bluff, and we knew Putin had the better hand; and figured the Ukra/NATO would fold. But they went all in instead. That isn’t really a misreading on our part but by EU/Ukra/US/NATO. And, we’re feeling pretty good that NATO going “all in” with a hand with a 9 high card, and betting their entire economy was a foolish move we couldn’t imagine. Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 29 2022 11:47 utc | 454 1) In October of 1959, the agreement to send Jupiter missiles to Turkey was signed.
I dare say, JFK was the Putin of US of A. When JFK died, US started a slow and steady decline to what we see today. None of the presidents you mentioned come close to his stature and vision. They couldn’t even shine his shoes. Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 29 2022 12:10 utc | 455 Just one more thing regarding JKF and CIA run by Allen Dulles.
Good luck trying to get a copy. I strongly doubt you can.
Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 29 2022 12:28 utc | 456 re JFK: Posted by: malenkov | Mar 29 2022 13:57 utc | 457 461 – Tom_12 – “Just one more thing regarding JKF and CIA run by Allen Dulles” Posted by: CalDre | Mar 29 2022 17:43 utc | 459 “son of privilege” Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 29 2022 18:16 utc | 460 Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 29 2022 11:24 utc | 456 Posted by: Sushi | Mar 29 2022 18:25 utc | 461 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 28 2022 15:53 utc | 294 Posted by: Unnamed | Mar 29 2022 23:56 utc | 462 Posted by: Sushi | Mar 29 2022 18:25 utc | 466 Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 30 2022 0:23 utc | 463 |
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