Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
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March 24, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-34
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Will Russia deliver the greatest ‘Suck on that.’ moment ever?
Posted by: Laurence | Mar 25 2022 7:28 utc | 301
So within the hour: “This channel can’t be displayed because it violated local laws.”[💰💩🇮🇱🍁🙈🍁 ™] https://sputniknews.com/20220325/ukrainian-training-base-for-foreign-mercenaries-destroyed-in-iskander-missile-strike—russian-mod–1094173179.html
[NOT EFFECTIVE ON ISKANDERS, ETC.]
Posted by: Laurence | Mar 25 2022 7:44 utc | 302
Posted by: Circe | Mar 25 2022 6:18 utc | 287
“I do not understand why Zelensky will not accept Putin’s terms.”
Have you not been paying attention here? HE CAN’T. First the CIA will not let him, and second if he somehow finds a way to defy the CIA, the neo-Nazis will put a bullet in his head.
In fact, Scott Ritter says in his Grayzone video that he thinks the Russians want him alive – at least long enough to surrender, after which they will kick him out – and probably have a Russian Alpha Team in place to get him to safety in Poland after he surrenders.
“Who’s going to force them to be part of Ukraine?”
Russia might. I don’t think they will but it’s a possibility if Russia decides to annex the whole territory of Ukraine, OR if Russia decides that a reconstituted Ukraine would be better off with the Donbass in it as opposed to weak independent countries dependent on Russia.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 25 2022 7:46 utc | 303
It is very easy to get all wrapped up in the details. But there are some things about all this business in Ukraine that are very disturbing.
Like (for instance) the absolute magnitude of the propaganda onslaught, or the very, very strange behaviors of the American “leadership”, or the absolute ferocity of that hatred towards Russia. As an outsider, I find these characteristics highly odd.
During other wars, from Korea, into Vietnam, and then all the many, many wars up until this very day; none have had this level of propaganda, and this level of American anger. And when you add on the very strange actions by the American Leadership and the absurd attitude of the NATO leaders, there’s something very odd.
Very odd going on.
I strung together some news reports, and tied them together, with the United States threatening “immediate consequences” if it refuses to sever its close relationship with Russia.
Others have written and suggested some “tin foil hat” level ideas as to what is going on. I find them far-fetched.
However, an empirically derived analysis is in order and here are my results…
https://metallicman.com/pizza-pies-cia-and-their-nazi-operations-american-collapse-and-treasure-just-another-day-at-mm-land/
Posted by: Rufus Arrr | Mar 25 2022 7:52 utc | 304
From MoD Russia Telegram channel… Note the S-300 radar hit…more evidence that Russians are now jamming S-300 systems so they can hit them safely. Also note the largest remaining fuel base was destroyed. One small quibble: How did the Air Force shoot down two UAVs over four different towns? Oops…
Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry
The grouping of troops of the Russian Armed Forces advanced another 4 kilometers overnight and captured Batmanka, Mikhailovka, Krasny Partizan, Stavki and Troitskoe. Currently developing an offensive against units of the 25th Airborne Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
In the evening of March 24, Kalibr high-precision sea-based cruise missiles struck a fuel base in Kalinovka near Kiev. The largest remaining fuel base of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was destroyed. This base supplied military units in the central part of the country with fuel.
The group of “Night Hunters” consisting of Ka-52 and Mi-28n helicopters destroyed 24 pieces of military equipment, including 7 tanks, 5 infantry fighting vehicles and 3 armored personnel carriers during night strikes.
Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 51 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 command posts, 3 multiple launch rocket systems, 2 Buk M-1 anti-aircraft missile systems and 1 radar station for target illumination and targeting of S-300 anti-aircraft missile system near Dnepropetrovsk, 3 D-30 artillery mounts, 2 missile and artillery weapons depots, as well as 26 areas of military equipment concentration.
Russian air defence means shot down 2 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicle in the air over Boromlya, Borshchevaya, Oleshnya and Usoki.
In total, 261 unmanned aerial vehicles, 204 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,587 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 163 multiple launch rocket systems, 636 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,397 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.
#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 25 2022 7:54 utc | 305
The economic hybrid war continues.
https://stockhead.com.au/resources/gold-digger-stagflation-to-push-gold-through-us2200-later-this-year-expert-says/
Don’t trust this source for what is worth.
Posted by: Paul | Mar 25 2022 8:13 utc | 306
@Circe | Mar 25 2022 6:18 utc | 287
I do not understand why Zelensky will not accept Putin’s terms. It’s so infuriating.
Zelensky only accepts the script presented to him, everything about him is fake.
The following is a joke, but it builds on top of another joke
https://twitter.com/johnhackerla/status/1505268441355223043
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 25 2022 8:22 utc | 307
Cancel Culture
https://t.me/readovkanews/29052
In Poland, local authorities solemnly demolished a monument to the soldiers-liberators of the Red Army
Broadcast from the scene in the Chrzowice area in the south-west of the country was broadcast live by Polish television. First, a five-pointed star with a hammer and sickle was joyfully removed from the monument, and then its systematic destruction began.
“There is no place for a red star in the public space of a free, independent and democratic Poland. There is no place for red stars in the public space of a free Europe,” Karol Nawrocki, director of the Institute of National Remembrance of Poland, solemnly declared.
The monument in Chrzowice was erected in 1949 at the site of the death of 620 Red Army soldiers of the 1st Ukrainian Front for the liberation of the Poles from the Nazis. The monument was an obelisk with an inscription in Russian and Polish “Eternal glory to the heroes of the Soviet army who died for the freedom of peoples in 1945.”
Posted by: Kim | Mar 25 2022 8:47 utc | 308
Posted by: Milos | Mar 24 2022 17:43 utc | 98
No need to hurry as Mariupole has been lost to Russia forever.
Russia has promised to rebuild it.
Posted by: Kim | Mar 25 2022 8:52 utc | 309
K
Thanks for your comments. I’m open to any and all discussion and have no issue with any commenter on this site. I believe the level of avoidance of the immorality in the violent struggle has reached absurd proportions but that too is ok by me. The overly propagandized cannot be expected to throw off their chains in reaction to my light criticism. Rather they will tend to react only by tugging the chains tighter in self protection.
I will speak my piece equitably but clearly. I have no concern with being civil as I am civil in my commentary.
I appreciate the lack of self consciousness on the part of the true believers who condone an offensive war waged under false pretences. As has been pointed out ad nauseum the US and NATO are just as guilty for Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.
This doesn’t justify what Russia hath wrought in Ukraine but I understand the sentiment.
But a fascist US is not a justification for a fascist Russia or China.
This is a struggle within the corporatist global capitalist system with fascists on all sides jockeying for advantage. This website has succumbed to the fascism in picking sides as that is all there is to choose from. I find this somewhat interesting from a sociological standpoint in the big picture but I don’t find the individual displays in the specific comments or the posts by b compelling enough to take exception except in the broadly sociological context. I’m not concerned at all about the individuals comments on display. It’s all good in my view. I would appreciate more calls for peaceful resolution from a neutral stance but I’m anachronistic that way I guess.
Posted by: Useless meat beater | Mar 25 2022 9:00 utc | 310
@ Posted by: Man | Mar 25 2022 6:31 utc | 291
@ Steve |9
Steve Having read through the comments since dawn I was going to offer along the same lines as Man just above. With whom I agree.
It is the old saw of ‘leading a horse to water but not being able to make it drink’ and such pubs on the same.
What can I add?
1. Contractual Analysis is useful to stop oneself into a mess and also if you actually want to try to ‘sell’ your wares;
2. Conflict resolution requires that one avoids getting into a face to face head on argument – especially when both are genuinely trying to care for the others welfare. If you want an actual fight with someone then of course get in their faces with some incendiary words and/or actions ;
3. The best way to get any movement in any matter in ones life where there is antagonistic opinions is to try to UNDERSTAND why EXACTLY someone thinks or feels the way they do. Then AGREE immediately with them that if that’s what you personally had only experienced that you would feel and think EXACTLY the SAME!
The last is the key – if the antagonist believes that you understand and EMPATHISE with them and don’t think they are stupid and actually they are justified – then they will stop being defensive.
They will then wonder what YOUR experience is.
That will allow you to explain your own experience and why you think and feel what you do.
The dots as Man says can then be available for them to follow and lead them to a different path.
I hope that makes sense and adds to some good points made by several others since your post.
Finally – to help you understand that perception management of which we in the west are experts at in the new media of the last century – why the majority of the population who only consume MSM believing that if they read/watch supposed differing opinions from that same MSM then they are making up their own minds – is not them being wholly owned by propaganda – consider that we are born not into a fresh new world but into history. We have religions, fairy tales, ‘common sense’, given to us from the moment we are born. And where we are raised we take on tribal beliefs. We can even be captured and think we are different from our upbringing through master manipulation (not wanting to be as square as our parents for instance, thi kinking we are therefore fresh and new and therefore holy in some way – until we grow up a bit and turn into our own parents !
Such is the Stockholm Syndrome that the majority of the MSM propaganda consuming , emotional button pushed, friends and family we have are inflicted by. It is a burden and a stress but it just means we have to take extra effort with their mental health if we care for them. Hence 1-3 above.
It’s not full proof, especially if bridges are already burnt, in which case there is not much to do except live with the damage and concentrate on well being and making most of the rest of our own life – it is short after all.
As for Nazis – I don’t care if there is only one in a hundred – they are like a deadly pathogen / rabid dog, hardly ever cured and for future humanity’s sake best eradicated. There is no point letting them live in their own little walled garden because in a few generations they will go on the march again! They are MY red line.
So in a time travel mental experiment when you go back to 1940 and you hate Hitler and Stalin but you only have one bullet which one of the 3 brains do you put it into for the good of future humanity.
Good luck.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 25 2022 9:08 utc | 311
@ Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 24 2022 13:14 utc | 7
” This may be one of the two missiles that may have hit the hospital. ”
What makes the Tochka identified here as Ukrainian? They’re used at both sides. Crucial information which I don’t see. With CEP of 95m in best case this would be a gamble IMO. Not sure about minimal range of this model but probably is 15 km. Hard to imagine where exactly it was launched from outside the fighting pocket. My thought was that it was pretty much surrounded but some pockets outside the city do exist. In my opinion a Russian missile would be more likely considering the circumstance and the hospital or immediate surrounding was noted down as military target.
Posted by: John Dowser | Mar 25 2022 9:13 utc | 312
The Penny drops.
❗️The imposition of sanctions against Russia in the field of energy is impossible – President of Romania
Klaus Iohannis explained his statement by the fact that there are countries in the European Union that depend on Russian gas.
“We adhered to the principle that these sanctions should have the most severe consequences for Russia first of all, and not for us. And therefore, it is clear that we cannot apply sanctions, which, in the end, are much harder to endure by our states than by Russia,” the President of Romania emphasized.
———————————-
Full Fledged
Russia and the West enter into a full-fledged economic war
The Central Bank said today that Russia is imposing restrictions on the movement of funds to unfriendly countries in response to the freezing of part of its reserves for a comparable amount. The Central Bank also imposed restrictions on the movement of capital, banned the sale of securities by foreign investors, and banned them from withdrawing funds from the Russian financial system.
In addition, the Central Bank said that payments on corporate debt of Russian companies and government debt to debt holders from countries that support sanctions against Russia will only take place with the permission of the government commission.
Posted by: Km | Mar 25 2022 9:31 utc | 313
HAVE YOU HEARD? RUSSIA IS USING WHITE PHOSPHORUS!!! Only a craven nation of war criminals would use such a thing…. Grab yer pearls, we’ve never seen cruelty like this
what? we use it? Israel uses it? what?
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 9:43 utc | 314
Hungary rejected Ukraine’s call to allow arms transfers through its territory and to abandon Russian oil and gas
“The most important thing for us is the security of Hungary and the Hungarian people. We are acting to keep Hungary out of the war, so we will not allow the transfer of weapons through our territory, ”said the head of the Hungarian Foreign Ministry, Peter Szijjártó.
———————————-
Turkey and Russia are negotiating to increase settlements in national currencies in the tourism sector – Erdogan
The President of Turkey said that he would not join the sanctions against the Russian Federation, as he could not allow his citizens to freeze without Russian gas.
Recep Erdogan also noted that the issue of transferring the S-400 to Ukraine is closed – the complexes are the property of the country.
Posted by: Kim | Mar 25 2022 9:45 utc | 315
India asked Wang Yi for complete disengagement on LAC for relations to move forward.
Possible – except at Depsang which China will not accept as it provides land route to Pak.
Note: India no longer seeking status quo ante to April 2020. Implicit is India accepting PLA 1959 LAC!
https://twitter.com/PravinSawhney/status/1507290850845286403
Those are the key issues to resolve the Chinese Indian border conflict: Disengagement from LoC, China agrees except for Depsang, which is the connection to Pakistan.
Lets see if they can work something out for that as well. Both sides should be flexible, if they want a resolution. Withdrawing from current LoC should be accopanied by trust building measures: 1. step China, 2. step India and so on. After that a common monitoring and early warning channel for movements comparable to Russia and Turkey in Northern Syria.
Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Mar 25 2022 9:50 utc | 316
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 9:43 utc | 312
You forgot the Thermobarics.
And the cluster bombs.
You disappoint me.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 25 2022 9:52 utc | 317
There was no discussion about the #Quad, in the meeting with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi, says External Affairs Minister @DrSJaishankar
https://twitter.com/dperi84/status/1507288130353004544
US strategy on containg China relies on the so called QUAD, the quadrilateral security dialogue between Australia, India, Japan, and United States.
The Ukraine war is giving China an opening to relegate this formate to insignificance and create something new with India and Russia at the core, basically reversing the US containment strategy. China should be prepared to give in to Indian demands, if it wants the order to work. Its a decisive opportunity for China.
Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Mar 25 2022 10:02 utc | 318
Scoop: India Okays Russian Firms’ Investments in Debt Securities Activating Rupee-Ruble Transactions https://sputniknews.com/20220325/scoop-india-okays-russian-firms-investments-in-debt-securities-activating-rupee-ruble-transactions-1094172942.html
Kicker:
“Russian capital may provide relief to firms seeking cheaper capital for their businesses as the US Fed tapering, and high energy prices may slow down fundraising from the West,” sources told Sputnik.
Posted by: Laurence | Mar 25 2022 10:02 utc | 319
Meanwhile in the liberated lands in the east, wages are being paid again by local authorities. This is a most unusual and civil way to prosecute a war.
Watch this and I run it slow with CC on and english translation but if you speak Russian it is fine. Sometimes the captions spool up to a full page and you can best manage by tapping space bar to arrest the scroll etc.
This reporter Юрий Подоляка lives in Crimea and is an excellent source.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 25 2022 10:02 utc | 320
I would like to thank all of you who replied to my request for advice on how to deal with family and friends. I think with family it is going to be easier to let the subject rest. I reminded my daughter about the little boy in the ambulance in Syria who’s photo was on the front page of every western newspaper on the same day and which turned out to be a complete fake, but didn’t make any headway. We have other things to discuss, so I think I’ll probably just leave it.
With another female friend I sent Dr Roberts’ article –
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/03/22/why-the-west-hates-putin/
about values and asked if they weren’t the values that we grew up with, but she ignored the question and responded “Putin sold off Russian services and companies to his cronies, for a pittance, who are all billionaires now, whilst the average Russian is on less than 110,000 roubles a month. That’s some disparity – but if you and your pals are happy with that, then that’s fine. Just imagine if those billions were spent on the people and infrastructure what a different place Russia would be. Since sanctions, I have no idea what the average Russian is scraping by on now, but don’t blame us, blame the warmonger Putin. His yacht is nice, if it does have some very tacky finishing touches. I hope it’s soon used to house Ukrainians.”.
So, I will persevere and if any of your suggestions work, I’ll comment on whatever the current thread is at the time. Thanks again.
Posted by: Steve | Mar 25 2022 10:07 utc | 321
But a fascist US is not a justification for a fascist Russia or China
Posted by: Useless meat beater | Mar 25 2022 9:00 utc | 308
My apologies if I read too much into your post then.
How do you define fascist?
as someone who isn’t a citizen of either looking from a distance but far more familiar with the US, I see almost no similarity between Russia and USA at all.
In terms of MOA I was drawn here not because of its support for Russia but for the intelligent commentary. its been an education for me over the years. I learned over time that it is a very pro Russian site and that’s been ok with me because I need to learn and also I needed relief from western corporate media.
Posted by: K | Mar 25 2022 10:08 utc | 322
Useless is what you are; you might read Bonhoeffer or Niehbuhr; but you’re deeply confused; these are far more moral men than you, and considered the love of one’s neighbor paramount; but found the need to, at times justify force; when used to staunch a menace. The US was in no way threatened by its putative enemies literally on the other side of the earth. But you KNOW that NATO’s intent was to create a situation Putin and Russia couldn’t ignore; and they got exactly what they wanted, and maybe a bit more. Here you are acting like you’ve never heard the term schadenfreude. You’re not presenting some witty challenge, you’re not the voice of conscience but of sophistry; you only expose yourself for the boob you are; a unprovocative provocateur. meh.
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 10:24 utc | 323
Steve, of course that wasn’t Putin but Yeltsin; similarly, do you know it wasn’t Chavez that nationalized Venezuelan oil, but his predecessor? The recovery from 08 was a Bush/Paulsen/Obama plan, but we usually hear it put on one side or the other. No Iraq WMD, no Gulf of Tonkin, no sabotage (from outsiders) on the USS Maine.
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 10:40 utc | 324
Arch, that’s what I woke up to, Zelensky says Russia used “…W H I T E P H O S P H O R U S!” he didn’t mention the others.
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 10:42 utc | 325
Posted by: hopehely | Mar 24 2022 23:00 utc | 209
Ok, so why do you hate Russians then?
Some hate, some are just wary of.
It’s because over past 3 hundred years we learned that Russia will always push west as she did at the end of XVIIIth century, after Napoleonic wars, after WWI and after WWII.
Independent Poland is not acceptable for Russia.
Well, actually, Poland was under a soviet rule, but those were your own councils, right?
I advise you to research exact ethnicity of those in charge, after WWII and now. Anyways if you are not aware Soviets installed their own puppets you have a lot to learn.
Smrt fašizmu!
So you wish me death because you imagine I have anything to do with fascism which is not true.
Now, how this would not incite hate on my side ?
Posted by: bevin | Mar 25 2022 2:44 utc | 247
Much of what you write, including the assertion that the Red Army was preparing to invade Germany before Barbarossa is straight out of Goebbels and an apology for the attack on the USSR
I am not apologizing Germans, I have no reason for it. As once Napoleon said, “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”
However the fact Stalin was preparing to attack Germany is well established.
If you cannot see the difference between the fate of the Russian prisoners of the Third Reich and the Polish prisoners of the Red Army,
So you say being killed by shot in the head from behind is better than dying of hunger. I would not dare to make such kind of judgement.
Russians specifically killed officers and anyone with higher education, quite akin to Germans in Sonderaktion Krakau.
Neither German guilt negates Russian guilt nor the other way around.
However I acknowledge the Germans wanted to exploit everyone until death and beyond it – up to the point of making soap of human fat while after WWII Russians only wanted to slowly turn everyone into Russian. Killing educated class was a part of destroying national memory.
Actually great grandfather of my wife was a prisoner in one of those camps, Starobielsk I think. He was captured because as a barber he had smooth skin on his hands – clearly not a working class. He was able to convince them he was a barber and be released. He died shortly afterwards nonetheless, because being imprisoned damaged his health. He was one of very few people who walked alive out of these camps. Many people in Poland know family stories like that.
For completeness: brother of my grandmother was killed by Germans.
Posted by: pppp | Mar 25 2022 10:49 utc | 326
Some contributors find this entire USA – Ukraine fixation really odd and I wonder at the deranged intensity of UKUSA as well.
So where does the money point to? Biden and son and before that obummer/clinton I am sure there was lolly in it for Trump and Bannon but i feel the democrat team got the bulk of it.
RSH #206 cited the Russian MOD report on the biological weapons program and it appears Biden Jr., had interests in the contracters to the supply and equipping of the 30!! facilities. That sounds like a scam to me.
I get the picture that the Clintons were way ahead of the pack in carpet bagging but Biden was hell bent to do one better. And that is why we are in this place. The old cold warrior will not let go
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 25 2022 10:51 utc | 327
Rufus Arr @ 302
Have you consider the possibility that US and Western elites are simply incompetent? Stupid? Insular?
The only thing the elites still know how to do is Hollywood. And they are less good at that than they were.
Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 25 2022 10:56 utc | 328
@53 Bruised Northerner
Considering that ‘developers’ are a hive of spivs and deeply corrupt in most countries and one presumes deeply in Ukraine it actually makes sense, I’m just surprised Zelensky would dare offend what is presumably a deeply powerful influence block like that. There are few places that wouldn’t be well served (Including most Western countries) by spurring their local deeply corrupt developers and hiring Scandinavian or Dutch ones instead.
Posted by: Altai | Mar 25 2022 11:23 utc | 329
Some contributors find this entire USA – Ukraine fixation really odd and I wonder at the deranged intensity of UKUSA as well.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 25 2022 10:51 utc | 326
The western population is deeply unhappy with their lives, whether mentally and materially. I see it visibly within my network. It fosters anger, hate and depression, which is easily manipulated and channelled to focus on external enemies. Yesterday was China, today Russia, tomorrow it will most likely be China again.
Focusing on others is easier than demanding their respective governments to serve them better, while chomping on unhealthy food, accumulating endless material goods beyond their means, jerking off to porn and refusing to exercise. Forget books, forget history, forget science. It’s all about the here and now.
Posted by: bonks | Mar 25 2022 11:30 utc | 330
@ Steve | Mar 25 2022 10:07 utc | 320
&
All,
So about these dots , propaganda , mass hallucinations and emotional button pushing.
Having command of English and being great at imagination means that the U.K. still fight above their weight in ONLY that field.
Strategic Communications through the advertising and PR gurus tails have been increasingly wagging the dog. Ii and 77 th and all things Russophobia comes through the cultural hegemony of us Brits on the coattails of US might and Hollywood super hero’s fantasy.
Here is a set of links by a great btl commentator that should anyone ask ‘but Who is doing this?’
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/03/the-universal-boosting-of-putin/comment-page-11/#comment-1015165
Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 25 2022 11:32 utc | 331
@John Dowser #310:
What makes the Tochka identified here as Ukrainian? They’re used at both sides.
No, they’re not. Russia has decommissioned Tochkas in 2019, replacing them with Iskanders.
Posted by: S | Mar 25 2022 11:56 utc | 332
Kim, Poles remember that it was the USSR that joined Hitler in invading Poland in 1939. Poles remember how Stalin called on them to rise up against the Nazi as the Red Army approached Warsaw, and then sat across the river for 72 days while the Nazi liquidated the city. Poles remember that Russia militarily occupied their country for 40 years after that-/so Poles do not have much affection for the Red Army.
Posted by: Wobblie | Mar 24 2022 15:50 utc | 54
Excellent example of national mythology. I see here some new elements. Stalin calling for Warsaw uprising, while in fact the idea was born in the sick minds of Polish politicians in London hoping to alter the results of Yalta. Using the term military occupation when Poland was part of the Soviet block. In this case we can safely say that Germany, Italy and Japan are still under American military occupation. Also South Korea even though it was not part of the Axis and liberated itself.
Posted by: RJB | Mar 25 2022 12:05 utc | 333
Ukrainian coders are working after hours to hack Russia, but please, watch out for Russian Cyber attacks
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/23/ukrainian-coders-splitting-their-time-between-day-job-and-cyberwar.html?utm_content=Main&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0D4NsOcmrqjb61r-hGEi3pM9YmWJI95NIQ6_zuDNnxJ_YcMO7bft-2Bgc#Echobox=1648017740
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 12:18 utc | 334
I realized the best way to do it to ask them questions about the background to why the Russians invaded Uktraina, and they had to realize that they knew absolute nothing.
Posted by: Northern Eve | Mar 25 2022 6:10 utc | 286
THIS^^^
“What do you know about 2014 and the eight years since in Ukraine?”
Ignoring the history is how our rulers and their media paint this as “unjustified and unprovoked aggression.”
It’s also why everything to the Western media is a “crisis” out of the blue.
The present Orwellian suppression of history of course is simple lying.
The “crisis out of the blue” stuff in general is due to hiring journalism-students, who don’t need to know nuffin’.
Especially logic, geography and history.
Posted by: John Kennard | Mar 25 2022 12:19 utc | 335
233 – Yes, the German occupation of Poland included apartheid-like segregated cars on public transport marked “Only for Germans”. Hanging and shooting of Poles and leaving their bodies on display was frequent. Poles were entitled to far fewer rations than Germans, and pressure on them to claim ethnic German status was intense – because the aim was ultimately to extinguish the very fact of Polish identity. Poles working in Germany had to wear a discriminating badge with the letter P in purple and yellow – not even white and red, the Polish colours, were allowed on the badge, probably because it might encourage Polish nationalism. None of these things were present in Soviet-dominated Poland, 1945-1990.
Posted by: Waldorf | Mar 25 2022 12:30 utc | 336
285 – “Come And See” is set in Belarus, not in Ukraine. Heavily forested Belarus saw more partisan activity than Ukraine for the most part in WW2.
Posted by: Waldorf | Mar 25 2022 12:34 utc | 337
@ 328 Altai
True – although one can’t help wondering which Scandinavian architects specifically are going to be invited to rebuild Ukraine? Says the wary Canadian (“Canadian” firms can have the most extraordinary composition of non-local members.)
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Mar 25 2022 12:36 utc | 338
#308
This doesn’t justify what Russia hath wrought in Ukraine but I understand the sentiment.
But a fascist US is not a justification for a fascist Russia or China.
What is fascism? What is your definition? Is Russia fascist? Is China fascist?
And what has done Russia in Ukraine?
Posted by: Olivier | Mar 25 2022 12:48 utc | 339
True – although one can’t help wondering which Scandinavian architects specifically are going to be invited to rebuild Ukraine? Says the wary Canadian (“Canadian” firms can have the most extraordinary composition of non-local members.)
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Mar 25 2022 12:36 utc | 337
Maybe it is time to understand that Ukraine is gone and will not survive the current events. Listen to what Maria Zakharova said yesterday. It is time to implement the result of the 17 March 1991 referendum.
Posted by: Olivier | Mar 25 2022 12:56 utc | 340
I understand what that logo is used by Rus MoD, the Romanov double-headed eagle, with crown, sword, orb (I guess), and what I take to be St. George slaying the dragon worked in there, although it all seems a bit baroque, but that cast-iron or black steel one with highlighting on it mounted on what I presume is a gate of the MoD in Mockba that they use on their Telegram channel reminds me of nothing so much as a scene or two from John Carpenter’s The Thing (my favorite Xmas-movie).
Posted by: John Kennard | Mar 25 2022 13:03 utc | 341
I was away for one day or more, so I did not read all comments.
Question: did the news about that nazi doctor who gave order to castrate Russian prisoners surfaced on MOA?
Last news:
https://www.newsweek.com/ukrainian-medic-apologizes-after-saying-russian-pows-should-castrated-1690301
Of course, now “out of context” LOL, “Russian propaganda” LOL.
Posted by: Olivier | Mar 25 2022 13:04 utc | 342
Polish TV has already managed to divide Ukraine, modestly taking Lviv and the surrounding territories.
Ahhh the Poles and their national mythology of Russia unjustly attacking Poland with Nazis Germany, of course in reality Poland was happy to work with Nazis Germany in the early 30s when they thought Germany would lead the attack on Russia/Soviet union. Unfortunately for them Germany ultimately decided it would be an even better plan for them to invade Poland first and take back the Germany territories they had lost after WW1 before going after Russia
Posted by: Kadath | Mar 25 2022 13:09 utc | 344
Official data from Russian Def. Ministry, https://t.me/intelslava/23519:
As of March 25, 2022, 1,351 servicemen were killed, 3,825 were injured” – Ministry of Defense
Posted by: Boo | Mar 25 2022 13:30 utc | 345
The Ukrainians are winning!!
– Baghdad Bob, reporting for Reuters.
This is the main front page headline at Reuters:
“Ukrainian forces advance east of Kyiv as Russians fall back”
The story suggests that the Ukrainians would have advanced further,
but halted over concern for civilians.
Posted by: librul | Mar 25 2022 13:30 utc | 346
Posted by: Boo | Mar 25 2022 13:30 utc | 344
This is excluding the LNR/DNR, potentially Chechen, losses, I guess.
Posted by: Boo | Mar 25 2022 13:32 utc | 347
Polish TV has already managed to divide Ukraine, modestly taking Lviv and the surrounding territories.
Posted by: alaff | Mar 25 2022 13:07 utc | 342
In their dreams. Kiev, Tchernigov, etc. shall be white-blue-red
Posted by: Olivier | Mar 25 2022 13:34 utc | 348
Russian Casualties to Date.
❗️Unfortunately, during the special military operation there are losses among our comrades. To date, 1,351 servicemen have died, 3,825 have been injured – Russian Defense Ministry
Posted by: Kim | Mar 25 2022 13:38 utc | 349
Librul; reminds me of this old Townes Van Zandt song
“All the Federales say, they could’ve had him any day
They only let him go so long, out of kindness I suppose
A few gray Federales say, they could’ve had him any day
They only let him go so long, out of kindness I suppose”
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 13:41 utc | 350
Official data from Russian Def. Ministry, https://t.me/intelslava/23519:
As of March 25, 2022, 1,351 servicemen were killed, 3,825 were injured” – Ministry of Defense
Posted by: Boo | Mar 25 2022 13:30 utc | 344
I assume servicemen menas RuAF and LDPR losses must be added to it. My guess 2500 overall KIA, since LDPR took the brunt of the fighting in the East.
Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Mar 25 2022 13:43 utc | 351
@Robert Lindsay | Mar 25 2022 10:01 utc | 316
From what I’ve read, the guns and ammunition the Soviets used at Katyn were imported from Germany before the war.
FWIW, Wikipedia says:
Three lines of evidence were cited. Firstly, the Polish corpses were in such an advanced state of decay that the Nazis could not have killed them, as they had only taken over the area in 1941. Secondly, none of the numerous Polish artifacts, such as letters, diaries, photographs and identification tags pulled from the graves, were dated later than the spring of 1940. Most incriminating was the relatively good state of the men’s uniforms and boots, which showed they had not lived long after being captured.
Posted by: WhyCantWeJusGetAlong | Mar 25 2022 13:50 utc | 352
Intel Slava this morning reports that:
1. Biden plans to give a “significant” speech on events in Ukraine on Saturday
2. The United States is not going to put pressure on Ukraine to force it to agree to a diplomatic agreement with the Russian Federation.
Recall that just yesterday Biden asserted that it was up to Zelensky whether Ukraine would surrender territory to come to a peace with the Russians. This statement was interpreted as preparing us for some kind of negotiated settlement.
Now, we hear that Biden is set to give a “significant” speech on Ukraine on Saturday. What does that mean? And, secondarily, that the US is “not going to put pressure” on Ukraine to settle with Russia.
I expect the “significant” speech will amount to a doubling down on US policy in Ukraine for the sake of “democracy” and defeating the “brute” Putin. It will acknowledge the serious economic blowback that is going to occur as a result of this policy, but will try to sell this blowback as necessary for America’s strong leadership in the world. It is possible also that Biden will announce the setting up of a Ukrainian government of exile, which, with the help of the US, will resist Russia via covert means in Ukraine over the foreseeable future. This is the Afghanistan/Syria playbook. Perhaps the US powers that be have decided that, rather than attack Russia directly, it better serves our interests to fund an insurgency campaign against them.
Or will Biden’s speech have something to do with Poland? Recall that he traveled to Warsaw recently, and that some have speculated that the US and Poland are coming up with a plan to involve the Polish military without involving NATO per se. How would this benefit the Poles at all? As far as I can tell, they will be destroyed upon crossing the border, and will not even have the threat of NATO backing behind them?
What do others think of this “significant” speech advertised for Saturday and what these shifting directions of communication coming out of the White House portend?
Posted by: WJ | Mar 25 2022 13:54 utc | 353
@Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 13:41 utc | 349
Unfortunately, to make a false-flag more believable the Russians have to be seen as desperate.
They have to be losing or at least stalemated. If they are winning then why use WMD?
Thus the headline at Reuters might be a predictable setup, a necessary piece for a narrative, to explain a forthcoming false-flag.
Posted by: librul | Mar 25 2022 13:55 utc | 354
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3906936
this 2019 article claims that most of GazProm contracts offer rubles payment as one of options, and sometimes EU companies used them when had surplus rubles.
Posted by: Arioch | Mar 25 2022 13:55 utc | 355
For me fascism exists within the current ruling framework of economic globalization to further the class interests of the wealthy via the exploitation of the middle and working classes, and especially ethnic, racial and religious minorities, immigrants.
The ruling framework is characterized by the interplay between corporate business, military and governmental entities.
The governmental and military structures are not necessarily uniform or one size fits all as they are mostly adapted to nation state forms that have developed through time and tradition. The state exerts relatively more control over the corporate sector in so-called authoritarian states while the opposite occurs in the so-called representative democracies but both are ruled by the wealthy classes for the enhancement of class wealth and power.
The business framework is characterized by global financial markets and international structures. The current war is being fought both on the ground by militaries and also through governmental manipulations of the international financial system to assert greater control and damage to opponents.
Regardless of the methods used the main players and weapons in this war are those corporations and individuals controlling the most wealth.
This is off the cuff and top of my head inadequately expressed but what I view as the rough contours of the 21st century globalized economy characterized by rightwing corporate power structures. Fascism drives and maintains this system both nationally and internationally to further wealthy elite interests. We are now seeing national fascist entities in open conflict on the battlefield and also within the battleground of the financial system itself.
This is my view of “duelling fascisms” and those of us non elites taking a side in these power struggles on social media are mere spectators.
Posted by: Useless meat beater | Mar 25 2022 13:55 utc | 356
@ 324
White phosphorous gets them into the ‘chemical attack’ realm. Wiki has a good page on the use of ‘willie peter’ by US and allied forces, in Iraq.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 25 2022 13:56 utc | 357
This has not been emphasized enough
Why This Economic War On Russia Breaks All Rules Of The Game – responsiblestatecraft.org
The recent act of “the West” — governments and central bankers in league and in unison — to expropriate what Biden called “Putin’s $630 billion war fund” is really off the charts by way of economic warfare, something that just wasn’t done in the 18th and 19th centuries, even in terrible extremities. Debts were paid, even to cretins. The reputation for trustworthiness was the banker’s most precious asset, and it became the creed of nations. Only by an authoritative legal process, governed by the law of nations, might someone else get their hands on your stash.
In the three centuries before 1914, beginning the age in which all restraints in war, military and economic, were obliterated, such a default was seen in “civilized Europe” as equivalent to the method of “the barbarian” — “we like, we take.” But not only by them. Vigorous shakings of the head in disapproval would also have come from the Princes of Africa, the Sultan of the Turks, the Kings of Persia and China, the Great Mogul of India, the Grand Duke of Moscovy, the Emperor of Ethiopia (Prester John), the rulers of Japan and Morocco, and the Khanate of Crimea.
Weighing in to similar effect in the 19th century would have been the British Parliament, the American Congress, the German Diet, and the French Chamber of Deputies. To the proposition that great financial contracts could be broken at will, they would say, why, sir, such an arrogation betrays “a wilderness of powers, of which fancy, in her happiest mood, is unable to perceive the far distant and shadowy boundary. Armed with such a power, you may achieve more conquests over sovereignties not your own, than falls to the common lot of even uncommon ambition.”
The commentariat treats this Vast and Unprecedented Expropriation, this Financial H-Bomb, alongside things like sanctioning Putin’s niece as just parts of a generic class of “sanctions,” as if they were two peas in a pod, when the Central Bank Expropriations are a revolutionary stake into the heart of the global economic system. They will one day be seen as hurtling us to a new monetary order, distinguished across the East-West divide by a rabid neomercantilism, wealth-destroying but inexorable.
Posted by: c1ue | Mar 25 2022 13:58 utc | 358
Still no news on Azov Regiment/Battalion. That’s weird. Something’s wrong?
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 25 2022 14:00 utc | 359
The last stronghold of independent Ukraine in the Donbass. Why the capture of Mariupol is really important
The battle for Mariupol has been going on for almost a month. The city, which since 2015 has become a stronghold of the Nazi battalions, has actually been turned into a continuous stronghold of defense. Fights go for every house. The National Battalion and the subdivisions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine that are actually subordinate to them use Mariupol residents as a human shield, and periods of ceasefire to strengthen their positions.
The military significance of the city is difficult to overestimate. The heart of the Azov Battalion is defended by some of the most combat-ready and motivated Ukrainian units. The defense line built over 8 years has become a powerful fortified area, holding down a large number of forces. The successful completion of the Mariupol operation will allow to pick up the “abscess”, freeing up many units for action in other directions.
Mariupol is the largest commercial port on the Sea of Azov. The return of the city to the DPR will significantly strengthen the economic structure of the republic, closing the logistics chains for maritime communication with Russia.
The capture of Mariupol allows you to exercise full control over the entire coast of the Sea of \u200b\u200bAzov. It will open a safe land corridor to the Crimea, which is acutely dependent on a number of strategic supplies by land.
At the same time, Mariupol is one of the largest metallurgical industrial centers of Donbass. Certain types of products of Mariupol plants are of great importance not only for Ukraine, but for the whole world. An example is the Ingaz plant, which monthly produced up to 20 thousand cubic meters of neon. The produced gas was supplied to European countries, South Korea, China, the USA and Taiwan as the most important resource for the production of semiconductors.
And finally, Mariupol has the most important ideological, symbolic significance for the whole of New Russia.
Ukraine, choosing the path of “Anti-Russia”, tried to make Mariupol a symbol of “Antinovorossiya”. The capture of the city will put an end to the liberation of the territory of the DPR from Ukrainian occupation
Posted by: Kim | Mar 25 2022 14:02 utc | 360
Useless:
duelling fascisms is better than one; multipolarity better than one system to oppress all as we’ve had. And again, the fascism done in our name is being hurt; so, if that means we have conflicted allegiances, so be it.
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 14:03 utc | 361
Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Mar 25 2022 13:43 utc | 350
Yeah, definitely not included, but to be honest, I have not seen any numbers from LNR/DNR forces (Bassurin/Pushilin) since the beginning, somebody can correct me on this. Chechens, only Kadyrov, knows.
Posted by: Boo | Mar 25 2022 14:04 utc | 362
EU complaining that requiring payment in roubles would consitute breach of contract.
To which my thoughts (imagining myself Putin):
“Good point. So while we are renegotiating the contract, I will also need the request a 25% “unfriendly” fee – a risk premium given the circumstances.”
As we endeaver with limited success to see through the fog of war, I was struck by a line from some analyst observing:
“But hindesight is 20/20…well, not really…” Basically everything we think we now outside our personal experience is a lie. We try to piece together reality from a heap of lies.
Bidens comment struct me rather odd: there will be a “response in kind” to chemical attack. I see Joe’s brain has trouble parsing the 6th dimensionsional framework of b/s that is the western reality.
Posted by: jared | Mar 25 2022 14:05 utc | 363
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 25 2022 14:00 utc | 358
The usual channels (Rozhin/Intel Slava/Major and General) are saying about 7k left in various cells. Center has been cleaned, saw reports with lots of Azov/VSU corpses left in apartments.
Posted by: Boo | Mar 25 2022 14:06 utc | 364
@ librul 353
“to make a false-flag more believable the Russians have to be seen as desperate”
Yes, Russia has to be losing in the chemical scenario . . .then cue the white helmets.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 25 2022 14:11 utc | 365
Germany gov’t says gas contract is private busines of private enterprise and both parties are to fullfill the contracts. The government sees no reason to intervene as of yet.
https://ria.ru/20220325/germaniya-1780062165.html
Sounds like a tacit encouragemen to gas companies to excersize ruble payment option (if those are already in contracts) or negotate contract amendments.
Posted by: Arioch | Mar 25 2022 14:11 utc | 366
On gas, I suggest that possession is nine-tenths of the law; Russia has it and Europe doesn’t.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 25 2022 14:15 utc | 368
Gazprom will be covered by Forced Russian Law Change.
Tit for Tat Russian style.
Oil and Minerals next.
A slow motion internal unrest by small tweeks.
Posted by: Kim | Mar 25 2022 14:16 utc | 369
of course Assad WAS winning, such that he let the UN inspectors in, and being so demonic as he is, couldn’t restrain himself, even though he was being watched; like Louis CK pulling out his penis to expose himself; Assad just had to gas his enemies; and the real kick; like Louis CK, it’s the exhibitionist in him that is the real sick part. Assad only likes to gas other when international observers are watching (and a light electric stimulus to the nipples as well.) Putin probably has the same fetish; that’s probably what really draws them together; not meaning to fetish shame; at least it’s not “gay” like that Cuck Zelensky; he and his wife like to play innocent Jews home invaded by bull-domme SS agents; “assume zie position” man, Libtards, am-I-right?
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 14:19 utc | 370
Tsarev:
“I am not going to speak as it is agreed by the official people. I am not going to respect political correctness. I will say it clearly – Ukraine must not exist as a state. These are Russian lands and they must return to Russia. How this should happen is up for discussion. It can be both a confederation and a direct integration into Russia. We will discuss this with the people. But we must clearly state that Ukraine, as an anti-Russia, as a deeply enemy state to Russia, must not exist. This is our historic Russian land, these are our people, even if they are currently sick with nationalism. But they are our people.”
Posted by: Olivier | Mar 25 2022 14:21 utc | 371
“petrochemicals; I has it”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkB9OT2XVvA
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 14:21 utc | 372
@c1ue | Mar 25 2022 13:58 utc | 357
The conclusion of your linked responsiblestatecraft article:
“Cassandra would like to say in reply: the Great Expropriation will come to be regarded as the financial equivalent of Operation Barbarossa, which sowed terror in all that lay in its path but which created through overextension and hubris the basis for its subsequent reversal. Our leaders, our ‘oligarchs,’ have not necessarily shot themselves in the foot with these measures, but they have definitely shot their peoples in the foot, and they do not seem to care.”
Operation Barbarossa, eh? Waiting for the Flag of Victory to be raised over the West’s financial empire…
Posted by: Vintage Red | Mar 25 2022 14:24 utc | 373
“I learned over time that it is a very pro Russian site”…
Posted by: K | Mar 25 2022 10:08 utc | 321
I think this site is anti-imperialist, but not pro-Russian. US imperialism is the dominant power and most reactionary and warmongering force in the world. I don’t think many bar flies would support the sort of society that Russia is, but its role at the moment is asserting independence from US hegemony, and if it succeeds then other countries will be more willing to try the same. That’s why, in my view, the reaction against Russia has been so overwhelming.
Posted by: Pete Jones | Mar 25 2022 14:24 utc | 374
@365 Arioch
re: German position on payment currency as a “contracts issue”
Let’s see how that works. This may well be just another attempt to deflect blame for the disastrous outcome which is approaching. Without German government backing them up, any EU customer willing to compromise, would still be stuck facing sanctions, when attempting to make the currency conversion.
Posted by: ptb | Mar 25 2022 14:25 utc | 375
ptb, or, Biden said, he’s not gonna press it. The sanctions are gonna be riddled with exceptions and loopholes; it’ll become obvious, because Biden and EU leaders will have to quietly signal to Wall St/London commodities traders the facade so commodities don’t spike up; exacerbating the effects. Such widely held secrets don’t last long. They only need to last long enough to let present passions subside. In a couple of months that “secret” will be widely hailed in defense against GOP attacks on Biden sanctioning Russia and causing oil to spike.
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 14:30 utc | 376
Boo@363…Having watched several aerial vids from Mariupol, I found it interesting that most apartment blocks received the same attack procedure. Top floors were wasted, and ground floor areas were destroyed, it looked methodical almost. Today I seen a pic from Stone’s site where he published a (supposed) pic from an Azoz training manual, showing how to take up firing positions on the top floors of apartment blocks, tanks in the buildings on the ground floor, and human shields on the mid floors in between. Still don’t fancy the chances of the civvies in the middle though, all those people just stuck there.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 25 2022 14:32 utc | 377
pppp@325
“..the fact Stalin was preparing to attack Germany is well established.”
No it is not. Nor is it true.
“..So you say being killed by shot in the head from behind is better than dying of hunger. I would not dare to make such kind of judgement.”
I say nothing of the kind. The armies that you refer to all went on to fight against the Axis. Either the Polish army in Normandy was there or its members had been shot in the back of the head- you choose, my father remembered the Poles distinctly. I have worked with Polish soldiers, taken prisoner by the Russians and re-patriated via Siberia, who showed no signs of having been shot in the head by Russians.
“Russians specifically killed officers and anyone with higher education…”
This too is simply untrue. The Russians had no interest in wiping out any national memories.
Where on earth do you find all this misinformation? Not from any reputable historian.
Posted by: bevin | Mar 25 2022 14:34 utc | 378
I think this site is anti-imperialist, but not pro-Russian. US imperialism is the dominant power and most reactionary and warmongering force in the world. I don’t think many bar flies would support the sort of society that Russia is, but its role at the moment is asserting independence from US hegemony, and if it succeeds then other countries will be more willing to try the same. That’s why, in my view, the reaction against Russia has been so overwhelming.
Posted by: Pete Jones | Mar 25 2022 14:24 utc | 373
I see MoA more as a point for refugees who cant express themselves freely on other mediums, because the prevailing narrative on those sites would crush any contrarian opinion. Its more about freedom of speech than being “pro Russian”. The basis of democracy is the free discussion of facts and opinions, the pros and cons, how to move forward. This is the strength of Western societies, which is currently under threat from the authoritarian prevailing ideologues who want to crush all dissenters.
Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Mar 25 2022 14:49 utc | 379
MILITARY OPERATION IN UKRAINE
26 MAR, 03:34
Ukrainian army loses 30,000 killed, injured over month of hostilities — Russian military
According to Sergey Rudskoy, all of Ukraine’s 24 large units that had existed before the beginning of the operation have sustained losses and the country has no organized reserves
MOSCOW, March 25. /TASS/. Over the first month of Russia’s special operation Ukraine has lost about 30,000 men, including 14,000 killed in action, the first deputy chief of Russia’s General Staff, Sergey Rudskoy, said on Friday.
“Over one month of combat operations the Ukrainian army has lost about 30,000, including 14,000 killed and 16,000 injured,” he said.
According to Rudskoy’s estimates, all of Ukraine’s 24 large units that had existed before the beginning of the operation have sustained losses. Ukraine has no organized reserves. Losses in manpower are compensated for by newly-mobilized and the personnel of territorial defense units, which lack training and are prone to heavy casualties.
Rudskoy recalled that the moment Russia’s special operation in Ukraine began the regular army and national guard had a total strength of 260,200.
Posted by: Kim | Mar 25 2022 14:52 utc | 380
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 25 2022 14:32 utc | 378
Can’t find the posts/comments on the usual telegram channels now, but there were captured manuals from CIA trainers, may be for the Azovs or the regular VSU, how to lead city battles and yes, this is the same type of battles that ISIS was/is doing in Syria.
Moreover, the civilians were asked to leave their apartments, so hopefully not many died from the direct hits from the RF+allied forces:
https://t.me/intelslava/23407
Here, around 30s one can see the back and forth from the high floors in an apartment block:
https://t.me/intelslava/23219
Posted by: Boo | Mar 25 2022 14:52 utc | 381
Scottindallas
Are multipolar fascisms better than one? Great question. I tend to believe this struggle is akin to knights jousting during the age of Kings. The peasants probably should focus less on the competition and more on how to move beyond the dated concept of royal knights.
I for one am not so quick to believe China is siding with Russia as much as many others assume. I see no material gain for China in a global system discombobulated by this war.
And China is the clear leader of the opposite pole if they are in fact a team, for which I see scant evidence beyond diplomatic statements. I attach as much import to diplomatic statements as I do to political campaign statements. None. Russia is materially weakening itself through this war and I don’t see how their material gain will outweigh their losses. In fact, I’m having a difficult time understanding what is even possible for Russia to gain materially from this misadventure.
China’s economy also does not stand to gain from Putin’s Folly.
Posted by: Useless meat beater | Mar 25 2022 15:02 utc | 382
Polish TV has already managed to divide Ukraine, modestly taking Lviv and the surrounding territories.
Posted by: alaff | Mar 25 2022 13:07 utc | 342
In their dreams. Kiev, Tchernigov, etc. shall be white-blue-red
Posted by: Olivier | Mar 25 2022 13:34 utc | 347
The Russians say that they don’t intend to divide Ukraine, and that they don’t intend to change the Ukrainian administration. The Soviet Union did not intend to divide Germany after the defeat of Nazi Germany, either. It was their Western allies that set that partition in motion. I wonder if Russia is expecting something like that to happen in Ukraine, too.
It does not necessarily require outside intervention. If Ukrainians get to vote on their own future, Ukraine might fracture, too. Ethnic minorities might want to split – Russians in the East, Hungarians, Poles, Romanians, Rusyn in the West. Those nationalists who tried to “purify” Ukraine might decide to split off the “pure” parts from the “impure” ones. The nature of the split then depends on the power and the (outside) support the different groups receive.
I don’t think Kiev will go white-blue-red – the large cities, and especially the capital, have got a very mixed population. They might lean towards not being Russian, Galician, or whatever, but Ukrainian. I mean Ukrainian here as something that they have in common, not as something that is forced on them by fanatics. The question is how much of current Ukraine might be willing to give Kiev another chance?
Posted by: Martina | Mar 25 2022 15:03 utc | 383
❗️ The LPR liberated 93% of the territory of the republic, the DPR – 54%. Fighting for Mariupol continues – Russian Defense Ministry
The department clarified that the Ukrainian group in the Donbass since the beginning of the operation has lost 16,000 out of 59,000 people, or 26%.
———————————
The storming of cities is not included in the tasks of the special operation. The “new generation war” was officially announced
At today’s briefing, the Ministry of Defense officially confirmed the theses we published earlier about the “war of a new generation”: the assault on cities is not a campaign priority, high-precision weapons are used to suppress the entire military infrastructure of Ukraine, the main goal is to wear down parts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and force surrender. Troops enter cities only on the territory of the DPR and LPR.
———————————-
The number of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine is declining – this was facilitated by high-precision strikes against bases and their training camps. Not a single foreign mercenary arrived in Ukraine in 7 days, on the contrary, their outflow is observed – Russian Defense Ministry
The department clarified that at the suggestion of the Ukrainian leadership, the country has become a haven for 6,595 foreign mercenaries and terrorists from 62 states, they are not subject to the rules of war, they will be ruthlessly destroyed.
Posted by: Kim | Mar 25 2022 15:19 utc | 384
Their biggest military threat, and global threat; one who debases the currency and taxes the globe will be put in a box; that indeed helps China. They tried negotiations, it would indeed have been better had the US/NATO not provoked this fight, this existential threat to Russia; but that’s a liability Russia had to address. China has secured their oil reserves from two sources now; that again is a key strategic goal. Indeed, it would have been better if the US hadn’t wasted all these resources on military hardware, but here we are. No industry, isolated and resented, trying to sell our financial markets ignoring we broke trust and confidence of depositors. Indeed, it would have been better for all, but relatively speaking, Russia and China are in a far better position; and if the US is willing to focus on domestic improvement and investment we can be better off; sometime you only learn by losing; we keep losing, but we don’t learn.
Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 25 2022 15:58 utc | 385
The believe in Unicorns and fables is just as great on this site as with the MSM— to those who still slavishly repeat Stalinist lies. The Soviet Union admitted responsibility and the Russian Federation turned over the official orders from Stalin to Beria ordering the liquidation of Polish POWs at Katyn to the Polish government.
On 13 April 1990, the forty-seventh anniversary of the discovery of the mass graves, the USSR formally expressed “profound regret” and admitted Soviet secret police responsibility.
Believing in fantasies and unicorns is much more widespread than I knew.
Posted by: Wobblie | Mar 25 2022 16:07 utc | 386
Russia protecting its core security interests against a longtime foe is not “folly”. it was folly to set this situation up in the first place; the US made it into a prisoner’s dilemma and then unilaterally chose the worst option.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 25 2022 16:07 utc | 387
pppp@325
“..So you say being killed by shot in the head from behind is better than dying of hunger. I would not dare to make such kind of judgement.”
……I have worked with Polish soldiers, taken prisoner by the Russians and re-patriated via Siberia, who showed no signs of having been shot in the head by Russians.
“Russians specifically killed officers and anyone with higher education…”
This too is simply untrue. The Russians had no interest in wiping out any national memories.
Posted by: bevin | Mar 25 2022 14:34 utc | 379
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Your understanding of historical events as reflected in your comment, gives the impression of being on the level of a high school student.
Ascribing State behaviour by using the word “Russian” to events prior to 1990 is a cardinal mistake. A mistake that has resulted in the Western mass psychosis when it comes to what is happening and was happening on the lands of what was the Soviet Union. The repeated mantra is , “Everything that happened was done by Russians”. Words do matter.
The mistake pppp made is to suggested that ALL officers and intellectuals were on a kill list of the Soviets. Historical reality is that SOME were.
Shooting people behind the head while they knelt was practiced in the Soviet Union. With respect to the Poles this happened in the forests around Katyn in 1940. Unlike you, at least the BBC tried to make its audience aware of this.
BBC
What is less clear is whose idea it was to do this. The standard answer in the West is ,”Stalin ordered it.”. I subscribe to the following hypothesis,
Stalin merely signed off on the request. The entire plan was proposed, planned, and executed by the NKVD, and the paper with the initial proposal has the signature of the Komissar of the NKVD Lavrenty Beria (a scary and ruthless man, far more so than Stalin himself.) NKVD found itself stuck with all these army and police officers, the choice was between killing them or keeping them locked up for the foreseeable future (they couldn’t be released as untrustworthy, and they couldn’t be sent back because their country no longer existed), some of them were apparently causing trouble (engaging in anti-Soviet propaganda, among other things — we don’t know the details any more), so it declared the whole lot to be irredeemable enemies of the Soviet government, and proclaimed that it “finds it necessary” to set up a kangaroo court that would find them all guilty and execute them.
I strongly those that read this to look at the “biography” of Beria, lest they like many go off and say that, “A Russian had the idea to kill off …”
As to the idea of killing officers and intellectuals in Poland during WW II, I suggest those interested to read a bit about the Einsatzgruppen which closely followed the first wave of Wermacht entering Poland in 1939. It is also worth while to research how they obtained the lists of intellectuals to liquidate. Who were these mysterious “German Helpers” ?
Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 25 2022 16:20 utc | 388
Many of the comments here, are highly educational, of not what is going on now in The Ukraine, but personal anecdotes, of some really old people (even older than me), of how people feel with regards to how their ancestors felt, when they were being bombed to sh1t, or otherwise being exterminated in WW1 and WWII.
Whilst I, born in 1953 in Oldham, England have personally known no war whatsoever.
Someone posted here quite brilliantly, about a part of the history of these World Wars, and who started them and why. It was nearly as good as Pepe Escobar’s latest
He/She said – why are you blaming the ordinary people like you and me, who live in different tribes/families/countries and labelling them, as if they have any influence on those in control of them??
Most people are not evil. They just want to have worthwhile lives, be happy and live in peace.
We all have personal influences from how and where we grew up, and the people we meet, and maybe fall in love with.
In 1999, I was completely outraged, when I read the Newspapers on a plane after no news in two weeks.
NATO and My Country England, were bombing The Hell out of Yugoslavia.
If things had turned out differently, I might have married my Ex, and be living there then and now.
Whilst I love England, and the fact that we all get on really well, considering our amazing diversity of cultures…
Do not associate me with the evil incompetent brainwashed people in control here. They are not working for the people of the UK.
They are working for the neocons in Washington DC, who’s origins bizarely enough are Troskyites / Straussians from the Ukraine.
I recommend Thierry Meyssan, for a deeper understanding. He has just published a new article which is somewhat more hopeful.
Ukraine : the great manipulation
Tony
Posted by: Tony_0pmoc | Mar 25 2022 16:47 utc | 389
Greetings, dearest barflies and purveyors of dangerous truth. The following is Michael Hudson, peering into his murky crystal ball at the conclusion of an interview “The Blowback from Sanctions on Russia” reprinted today on CounterPunch (so I guess it’s not utterly impossible for Jeffrey St Clair to ever share anything interesting):
I don’t see any cooler heads in the United States. The surprising thing is that here it’s the right wing channel, the Republican Fox News channel, is the only channel that’s taking the anti-war stand and is saying we shouldn’t be at war in Ukraine. It’s the only channel that’s talking about here is how Russia sees the world. Do we really want to take a one sided perspective or do we want to see the actual dynamics at work? So it was the Republicans and the right wing that is now primarily against the NATO war in the Ukraine. The left wing seems to be all for it, but the left wing of the Democratic Party is in office and I don’t see any cooler heads in the Democratic Party at all. And I’ve known many of these people for many decades, and they are willing to go to war for a death. There are still back in the world of World War Two when the fight was against the Nazis and anti-Semitism. They’re still living in a kind of mythology world, not in the real world. And the thought that the world can come to an end either doesn’t have a reality to them or as Herman Cain said, Well, somebody is going to survive.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Mar 25 2022 17:09 utc | 390
Posted by: Kadath | Mar 25 2022 13:09 utc | 345
Poles were “happy to work with Nazi Germany” – would you please give a reference to your assertion? Otherwise it is vile propaganda, polonophobic.
Posted by: bystander 04 | Mar 25 2022 17:22 utc | 391
@Robert Lindsay | Mar 25 2022 10:01 utc | 316
Mr R. Lindsay – do read “Special Tasks” by Pavel Sudoplatov, it has a facsimile of the order signed by 5 top Soviet leaders, Stalin, Beria, and 3 others – to eliminate the Polish officers. I will stay away from your comments.
Posted by: bystander 04 | Mar 25 2022 17:28 utc | 392
Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 25 2022 16:20 utc | 389
Who were these mysterious “German Helpers” ?
Before WWII there was a significant German miniority in Poland, a leftover from Austrian and Prussian occupation. It was quite easy to find snitches and saboteurs among them. Besides there were administration archives. You can give usual suspects some break, don’t be too generous though, they had their share.
But Einsatzkommandos existed only under German occupation. Under Soviet occupation NKWD did the dirty job.
And I think signing a paper means taking responsibility for whatever is written on it. Smart people read before signing.
Posted by: bystander 04 | Mar 25 2022 17:22 utc | 392
Posted by: Kadath | Mar 25 2022 13:09 utc | 345
Poles were “happy to work with Nazi Germany”[Before WWII]
Actually Hitler tried to include Poland in the Anti-Comintern Pact but Poland refused which resulted in Ribbentrop-Molotov pact.
Posted by: pppp | Mar 25 2022 22:16 utc | 393
Pete J @ 375 said;
“I learned over time that it is a very pro Russian site”…
Posted by: K | Mar 25 2022 10:08 utc | 321
I think this site is anti-imperialist, but not pro-Russian. US imperialism is the dominant power and most reactionary and warmongering force in the world. I don’t think many bar flies would support the sort of society that Russia is, but its role at the moment is asserting independence from US hegemony, and if it succeeds then other countries will be more willing to try the same.
Posted by: Pete Jones | Mar 25 2022 14:24 utc | 375
Nailed it Pete..
Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 26 2022 3:58 utc | 394
vetinLA | Mar 26 2022 3:58 utc | 398
from the comment you quoted
“I don’t think many bar flies would support the sort of society that Russia is”
Its more a matter of respecting other cultures, other societies. The johnny come latelies melting pots respecting much older cultures and peoples. This bullshit of anlgosizing the world. Americanizing it. Its becoming visible now, major non anglo countries telling US to shove Americanization up its american arse.
Apologies vet because you are american but this is the way I see it.
So many different cultures out there in the would that are different to ours. I don’t see them as being different or worse. Nuremberg trials are something I think should be remembered-Aggression is the greatest crime.
US UK and the anglosphere I dont see as any different to WWII nazi Germany in that way. full spectrum dominance…collateral damage, collateral murder.
i hope you don’t take thi as a hot at yourself rather the line within your quote.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 26 2022 4:26 utc | 395
They even made soap out of their bodies.
Is it because so many Poles helped Nazis kill Jews?
Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Mar 26 2022 4:45 utc | 400
Man, you must be smoking some serious dope. I would serious recommend you stop watching the History Channel while doing it.
Lets see if this might not help you out. I doubt it, but what the hell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht_foreign_volunteers_and_conscripts
See any battalions described as being formed IN POLAND ?
I bet you don’t get the following “little detail” either. Which Poles would have joined the German Army ?
Here’s a hint about those masquerading as “Poles”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_minority_in_Poland
Who would have provided lists of intellectuals to be liquidated by the Einsatzgruppen when entering Poland in 1939 ? Look above.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen
OK, this one is not directed at you but at those experts declaring how those jolly Poles after the war settled happily in Britain/Scotland to live out the rest of their lived. Yes, they were very jolly but probable only at the pub talking with the locals. After being sold out to the Soviets in Yalta they were anything but jolly in Britain.
On the 20th March, 1946, British Foreign Secretary,Ernest Bevin, issued a note to the Polish forces recommending, in the strongest possible terms, that the Poles should return to Poland to help in the country’s reconstruction. Indeed some 105,000 took him up on the offer. Some 123,000 did not – a further 21,000 were recruited from Polish communities around the world and they returned home after demobilisation. The key question is why did so many Poles feel unable to return to Poland after the war?
To be fair, not all of the soldiers returned to Poland but at least +- 100k were “convinced” to do so.
After the war, a bill for over 68 million pounds sterling, covering the equipment and operating costs of the Polish Air Force in Great Britain, was paid from the Polish gold reserves deposited in Canada.
Link
Lets try to wrap our heads around this. Churchill/Roosevelt sell off the Poles to the Soviets. Poles lose their lives holding back the Germans from entering England. Then at the end of it all they had to pay for the equipment etc. that they used to fight for the Brits !!!!
Give me a f$%*en break.
There is some controversy about whether or not the full amount of the Polish “war debt” was paid in the end. To wrestle with this one it is worth knowing that part of Polish gov.’s gold reserves were stored in England and Canada. Sort of like Venezuela today. Hence, this gold was not under control of the Poles. You might say it was an open credit card.
Such small details do matter when trying to get the history right. You are not there yet with what you wrote in your comment. As a matter of fact you are grievously insulting those people who sacrificed a hell of a lot FOR NOTHING.
Posted by: Tom_12 | Mar 26 2022 7:59 utc | 396
@Pete Jones #375
You said
I don’t think many bar flies would support the sort of society that Russia is
Perhaps you can clarify what your understanding of Russia’s society, that bar flies would not support.
For my part, I have visited there more than a dozen times.
While I am not religious in any way, unlike the Orthodox Christianity of the majority of Russians, Russian society is not biased against those who are not religious.
Russian society is not biased against those who are not Russian. The only prejudice I’ve ever experienced was ensuring that I paid tourist prices for the operas (rightfully so). The most common phrase I have seen/heard is that Russians don’t care who you are so long as you respect the Russian society you are in. I’ve walked into a bar with 2 Russian girls, the bar being occupied by 3 Russian soldiers in camo. After 15 minutes, we were buying each other drinks even though I didn’t understand a lick of Russian then. I’ve also seen a bunch of dark skinned people playing basketball in a neighborhood. It could have been Chicago except it was much cleaner and no graffiti.
I’ve also seen far more open discourse – both for and against Putin as well as every other subject imaginable – than I see in the United States. There is no toxic discourse like I see literally everywhere in the United States, much less nonsense like wokeness. Yes, Russian men are literally horrified by alphabet people but there are openly gay stars on Russian TV and in movies.
Russian society is about community: hot water in all but the newest, richest areas is a central plant supplying an entire neighborhood (including keeping all other pipes unfrozen). This can be annoying when the plant has to be repaired and nobody has hot water for several days.
Russian neighborhoods all have a national health care provision center where there is almost no cashier – there is one, but they are very not busy.
There are systems of public transit – layers ranging from city/state run light rail to private “marshupkas” that run neighborhood to city length routes at affordable prices.
There are literally a dozen grocery stores of different chains in a single neighborhood, within walking distance.
So what exactly is it about Russian society that bar flies should object to?
That they have a leader which has been re-elected multiple times, every single time in accordance to the law?
Please clarify.
Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2022 13:20 utc | 397
“I do not understand why Zelensky will not accept Putin’s terms. It’s so infuriating.
…
“Even Biden has softened on the territorial part when asked about these terms in the Q&A at the NATO Summit. He said something like it was for the parties to decide and settle. He said nothing about territorial integrity…”
Posted by: Circe | Mar 25 2022 6:18 utc | 289
Zelensky has as much agency as President of Ukraine as Biden does as POTUS, which is none. Biden’s apparent concessions are for cynical, for public consumption only, to make him appear negotiable, diplomatic, and almost rational. Nope, regime-change in Russia is the Empire of Lies exclusive singular goal as Pepe Escobar notes. Concessions of territorial integrity apply only to Russia, not Ukraine.
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Mar 26 2022 18:07 utc | 398
Postat av: Steve | 25 mars 2022 10:07 utc | 322
Some persons have been so angry at me when I´m defending Russia and Putin in Ukraina, a few of them have told me they don´t want to be my friend on Facebook, but the funny thing is,they return with new questions,and if they have been very rude before, they are now quite polite, and they can even approve my comments, and the reason is, I have armed myself with knowledge, thanks to this blog and to all you who are writing so wise comments! As somebody wrote here,”arming oneself with knowledge is a good weapon”!On the boarder to Finland there is a phrase: “You have to arm your self with patience!”
Posted by: Northern Eve | Mar 26 2022 22:42 utc | 399
Hi c1ue (403),
Russian society is not biased against those who are not Russian.
Not that I’ll argue with that, but come to think of it,
A week ago there was news of a tsunami/earthquake in Japan.
https://russian.rt.com/world/news/976946-yaponiya-zemletryasenie-elektroenergiya
https://russian.rt.com/world/news/976919-yaponiya-zemletryasenie-cunami
I know it’s at least a week old now, but some of the reader commentary on both articles saw this as karma, that God is ‘punishing’ Japan for the Tokyo government’s actions toward Russia, etc..
Could it be a vocal minority that isn’t Orthodox Christian, but believes in a god nonetheless? I would hate to imagine if this were the view of the majority. All I know is, a loving Christian God would not willingly harm His own children, let alone play favorites. I don’t think it’s a one-way street.
Posted by: joey_n | Mar 27 2022 0:18 utc | 400