Posted by: Julian | Mar 14 2022 13:39 utc | 300
For a false flag, the nazis and their support can do it any time everywhere.

Posted by: Olivier | Mar 14 2022 13:51 utc | 303

@Jonathan W | Mar 14 2022 13:14 utc | 294

So the Ukis keep attacking Donbas out of desperation, even when under siege, or what is the explanation?

This has been the practice for the last seven years. Why change now? Donbas must be cleansed of Russian speakers. Historical examples of this type of murderous ideology in operation are Eichmann commandeering the rail network to ensure that Hungarian Jews were transported to Auschwitz even as the Wehrmacht was desperate for transport and Nazi volkssturm killing German civilians who wanted to escape from the advancing Red Army.

Posted by: cirsium | Mar 14 2022 13:54 utc | 305

The outcome of the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ terrorist attack on Donetsk downtown: videos 1, 2, 3, video 4, video 5. There is zero military infrastructure there. As usual, the Ukraine is doing what it falsely claims Russia is doing.

Posted by: S | Mar 14 2022 13:59 utc | 307

In response to Olivier@301,
Another thought that crossed my mind was that this was a response to statements from Ukrainian foreign minister that negotiations with RF were starting to bear fruit. Although I sincerely doubt that the statement accurately reflects reality, such talk is bound to spark fears among national battalions that they are being sold down river.

Posted by: Skiffer | Mar 14 2022 14:11 utc | 309

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 14 2022 13:56 utc | 306
Taibbi is equivocating and wriggling out furiously to stay relevant with the MSM. I wonder what he really thinks 😉

Posted by: Boo | Mar 14 2022 14:16 utc | 311

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Mar 14 2022 14:19 utc | 312
Nothing different than what the US/UK journous were spinning about Dresden/Hiroshima/Nagasaki. It’s clear than US is at war with Russia and dehumanizing the enemy is the order of the day.

Posted by: Boo | Mar 14 2022 14:23 utc | 313

Re: Posted by: Olivier | Mar 14 2022 13:51 utc | 303
Of course they can do a “False Flag” anytime anywhere. But firing a barrage of 50 missiles into Poland from Western Ukraine and saying “It was the Russians” wouldn’t work at the moment would it.
It could very well work when the Russian army is in Western Ukraine and laying siege to Lviv.

Posted by: Julian | Mar 14 2022 14:27 utc | 315

Moving this here ’cause chicken little’s false flag.
Ukraine’s Zelensky To Address Full US Congress
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/ukrainian-president-zelenskyy-virtually-address-congress-rcna19909
The finest theater money can buy.

Posted by: too scents | Mar 14 2022 14:36 utc | 317

Posted by: Hidari | Mar 14 2022 7:10 utc | 245

It would be lovely to believe that these people have no influence, but there are always going to be those whose immediate response to any invasion is ‘surrender’ and they will be listened to.

I don’t think that the 5th column in China have any real influence at the national level, at least these days. They’ve got fans, but as we say in China…”you’ve been sold and you’re helping your seller count the money”.

Posted by: Beatrice | Mar 14 2022 14:41 utc | 319

Cont’d from #318
To be clear, these groups are fake: there is no such organization as “Donbass Mothers Union” and “DNR Commandant’s Office Rollcall” VK group has now erased its profile pic and all posts.
Many people, even among those who support Russia, are dismissing claims of the Ukraine targeting civilians as Russian war propaganda, but it’s not. This is real. Ukrainian Nationalists’ hate for Russians and the people of Donbass is real. Their deliberate targeting of Donbass civilians is real.

Posted by: S | Mar 14 2022 14:56 utc | 321

I don’t think that the 5th column in China have any real influence at the national level, at least these days. They’ve got fans, but as we say in China…”you’ve been sold and you’re helping your seller count the money”.
Posted by: Beatrice | Mar 14 2022 14:41 utc | 319
No doubt the commoners say that in every country. Animism was our universal human heritage for a reason: fairness matters above all.
The 5th Column rules almost every country. The proof is in the pudding. We call the pudding Globalism.

Posted by: reante | Mar 14 2022 15:13 utc | 323

Unnamed, funny, your analysis is utterly embued with a economic neo-liberal perspective. Who owns the toll roads? Foreign firms? well, they just gave Russia a free highway. Toll roads are a reasonable way to build a road if the funds are returned to the state; so either way, Russia just fixed that. As to domestic facilities, should those be taxed (you said owned) by the banks? Or should those be built without layers of bureaucratic taxation. Utilities are more efficient if wholly socialized, privatization only increases costs, bureaucracy and corruption, while undermining transparency and accountability. So, sorry, you’ve been wholly susumed by neo-liberal economics; you’ve even bought the utter falsehood that “credit/liquidity” are capital. “Capital” is a depreciable asset, a factory, truck, machine; not money, cash, or financing. That too is a Wall St lie. The progressive tax code wasn’t devised by some liberal, but by CFO of Ford, an industrialist; the low income tax policy, comes from Andrew Mellon, Will Rogers coined that “Trickle Down” It was the US embrace of the progressive tax code that held Wall St in check, built the greatest industrial power in the world to date, and built the largest middle class to date. (China, by adopting similar policies has outpaced all those achievements)
I can’t believe we have people talking Astrology; one might think the “Ides of March” more relevant as a date of note; but whatever.
C1ue, you’re clueless if you think NATO’s projections of meddling, are any real insight of their defense capacity in their own lands, in a existential fight. Your analysis counting tanks ignores that. You’re too self absorbed to understand that despite US superiority we lost when we were just meddling, but those far weaker nations were able to shrug off our incursions. Logistics, and commitment to the fight represent far different fights; and the compares you’ve drawn and rested with ignore that. It’s not NATO incapacity, it’s NATO’s agenda to destabilize, not win and conquer; that’s not the goal, we’re trying help Lockheed and Raytheon, not Colt and Remington.
Finally, others have a tendency to jump from rational close analysis to quickly assume some final resolution, be it apocalyptic, nuclear war, or some final victory declared; there will be no such resolution; history and time don’t end; but that’s the conceit in your thinking, there has to be a conclusion; but that’s not how anything works, it’s you admitting you’ve lost all sense of where things are going. There is no page that will turn. Russia and China and India and Iran will trade, they really don’t need money, essential goods are “ESSENTIAL” meaning they have value that people will pay for, in whatever mode, means, currency they must. Y’all waste too much time on process, when that process is one arbitrary way to do it, one that is the way it’s been done, but these sanctions are intentionally disruptive of that process, other processes will emerge.
As to the speed of the Russian advance; a faster advance would be simple enough, but would present the problems of occupation; the US hasn’t learned this lesson yet (and perhaps our tactics are informed by the IMF/Bechtel/Haliburton contractors and Smash and ALL war crimes are good for our contractors.) Separating the wheat (people) from the chaff (insurgents) is arguably better done the Russia way. These different perspectives seem to be deeply set into Western (media) think(tank)ers; but their mission is sales/propaganda. Danielle Pletka has long rankled me as one “expert” who’s always gotten it wrong. I got Cohen(?) particularly irked when he was doing the PBS rounds, I asked if he could cite one time he didn’t advocate for more weapons, or raising hostilities; he said that was a vicious ad hominem and wasn’t the same the rest of the show (Got Dershowitz to quit Dallas PBS when I got him to lose it when I asked, “aren’t Palestinians entitled to the same defense OJ Simpson got before they’re executed?” I don’t know if these jackasses drink their own kool-aid or if they know they’re selling shit.

Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 14 2022 15:25 utc | 325

@J Swift #186
How is your different than a federalization a la Minsk Accords?
True “independence” is probably a function of just how capable the various oblasts would be to take over federal functions, but I suspect the answer is: not very. Just imagine the customs and immigration headaches arising from literally independent oblasts.
Canada can get away with significantly independent provinces vs. the Canadian federal government, but they’ve had a long time to evolve.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 14 2022 16:10 utc | 327

Arioch,
Thank you for your excellently presented details regarding early Soviet imperialism, in the previous thread. Much appreciated! And another of your comments regarding the would-be dynamics of trying to genocide the Ukrainian nationalists was a fine display of true insight based on life experience.
Your fleshing out of the Soviet Trajan horse strategy of prioritizing their victims was a classic example of statecraft. In order to establish an empire the first priority is you have to establish a central core. That core was Russian. While establishing that core you use trojan horse tactics on the periphery, in order to lure in the peripheral elites. That tactic was ‘assisting’ those elites in cementing their own power. You can fill in the rest according to the history you provided so we’ll.
As to the detailed history you gave around peasant farming and the intractable, chronic ecological compaction that the Russian peasantry suffered, well, ain’t that civilization in a nutshell? Civilization is the history of humans being forced to find ways to intensify the mode of production so as to avoid the eventual catastrophe of civilizational collapse due to NOT finding a way.
These Russian peasans, and Russia itself, was repeatedly hitting the limits to growth of its mode of production — reaching its carrying capacity — and collapsing back in about 15yr cycles I believe you said. Then synthetic fertilizer (and mechanization secondarily) became the necessary breakthrough that enabled further intensification and break that agrarian ceiling of limitation by creating an industrial ceiling.
Now we’re hitting the industrial ceiling, but this time, due to the infinitely more complex industrial system than that which was the suboptimal rotation of peasants and goats on land — which were nevertheless real, predictable, inexhaustible resources — the collapse will be terminal, like that of the extremely overextended Western Roman empire. There is no baseline sustainability to this as-yet ongoing concern.

Posted by: reante | Mar 14 2022 16:19 utc | 329

thanks to the many thoughtful posters here sharing valuable information.. i appreciate it.. too many to name, but you know who you are…

Posted by: james | Mar 14 2022 16:44 utc | 331

Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 14 2022 15:25 utc | 325
You have it so completely backwards that it’s almost laughable. The foreign investor expects (and gets) a dollar return. To raise these dollars, Russia must export more of its energy and minerals, keeping those from being directed toward Russia’s own development, and/or import less of goods and services that it needs. This is a pure give-away to foreign investors, and the first of several unnecessary costs. Russia’s government chooses to impose these extra costs on its own economy, either because of corruption or neoliberal brainwashing, or a combination.
For the motorway to be constructed, labor, raw materials (cement, steel, asphalt etc.) and energy costs must be paid, mostly in rubles in the domestic economy. The rubles are issued by Russia’s treasonous central bank against the dollars brought in by the foreign investor (which the US creates out of nothing, precisely to exploit other countries financially and buy up their “commanding heights”, like for example infrastructure in Russia).
Those new rubles chasing limited resources in the economy lead to increased inflation. And that inflationary effect is exactly the same as if the money (rubles) to construct the motorway had been issued by the central bank against newly created government securities, or simply as commercial bank credit by state owned banks (the latter is the main model for infrastructure investments in China).
In addition, the motorists must pay in rubles for access to the motorway, instead of it being free as in for example Germany, China or even most of the United States. This increases the cost structure in the entire economy, lowers living standards for consumers, and lowers economic growth as money spent cannot be spent on other goods and services. It also makes domestic industry and commerce less competitive, as their transport costs increase compared to countries with free-to-use motorways.
And this is your idea of a “free motorway”, apparently donated by gullible foreigners? Unnecessarily burdening the economy with dollar liabilities and gouging households and industries to pay foreign companies (or for that matter Russian oligarchs deploying the dollars they stole and keep overseas) is your *alternative* to neoliberalism? And *I* am the one imbued with neoliberal thinking? Are you insane? Or just not really thinking?
Here is the problem: If self-described anti-imperialists and developmentalists (or socialists), in the West or outside it, don’t understand these dynamics, how is the world order supposed to change? Several people here have accused me of distracting from what really matters, namely the details of the military campagin in Ukraine (once again, this is the exact opposite of the truth).
Guess what: The West will constantly create new provocations and atrocities on Russia’s, China’s and Iran’s borders. Since Russia is a major military power with nuclear weapons, the only way they can really hurt Russia is if those actions succeed at preventing Russia’s own development. There will always be a reason, and there always has been one here or there especially since 2014, for why “now is not the time” to discuss economics and development.
As despicable as for example Ukraine’s recent bombing of Donetsk civilians is, and the fact that the West is outwardly indifferent while privately cheering, they are actually inviting you to obsess over the gory details, while attacking anyone who (in parallel, not instead of) wants to discuss anything else as “trolls”. This is precisely what Karl Rove was getting at when he said: “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out.” Like it or not, you are acting as the West’s useful idiots.

Posted by: Unnamed | Mar 14 2022 16:51 utc | 333

People pulling the strings are crazy. (see previous wars)

Posted by: cunctator | Mar 14 2022 17:02 utc | 335

@336 SOME Latvians were hardcore Nazis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Legion

Posted by: dh | Mar 14 2022 17:14 utc | 337

I also now realize these discussions are better held in the “NOT Ukraine” open threads. Maybe that was the real cause for a lot of the irritation I caused. If so, I apologize.

Posted by: Unnamed | Mar 14 2022 17:22 utc | 339

Cont’d from #318
Two days ago another TikTok user, @skulakova1912, has called on DNR women to gather at the State Administration building in Donetsk on March 14 at 12:00 to protest mobilization: video.

Posted by: S | Mar 14 2022 17:25 utc | 341

Russia is no longer in that system; they were playing along; waiting. They waited till Iran was on the cusp of a deal, they waited, hoping the US would listen to them as partner, despite all the rhetoric, but it was clear there was no more time to avoid earnest discussions; US/NATO/Ukraine were poised to cross red lines it seemed oblivious to. We too much forget, Putin IS playing the propaganda war, just not with us; he cares what China thinks; he’s been clear about his red lines; WE KNOW THAT HERE, but (and I’ve been wondering) if our diplomats know Putin’s red lines, or if they really only believe their wild claims. (we all know, the feeling of talking to a mad person; ranting about absurdities; what about breaking NATO promise, breaking ABM in Poland, breaking Minsk2? Refusing to even discuss these issues? Putin’s “red lines” his demands are for US/NATO/Ukraine to simply hold to our agreements. Russia was trying to play along; had he moved to this before, it might have triggered a more belligerent response from US/EU; but here’ it’s an own goal. Beautiful Judo; or as someone said, Brer Rabbit, getting tossed into the Briar Patch; “oh, not that!”

Posted by: ScottinDallas | Mar 14 2022 17:34 utc | 343

Of course, all these appeals to DNR women didn’t work—and couldn’t work—because DNR women know very well that their husbands and sons have been mobilized to put an end to the killing of Donbass citizens by the Ukraine. However, this ugly Ukrainian attempt to maximize the number of DNR civilian casualties provides yet another evidence of who Ukrainian Nationalists are: fanatical Russophobic extremists with no moral restraints.

Posted by: S | Mar 14 2022 17:38 utc | 345

Posted by: cirsium | Mar 14 2022 13:54 utc | 305
Thank you. This is an apparently small but extremely significant detail. That means Putin’s denazification will have to eliminate every single Nazi in the region or face endless grief from those Nazi that may remain there.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 14 2022 19:18 utc | 347

if I don’t mind saying so myself, the HTOE is sitting pretty right now. Oh there’s be some bumps and bruises along the way perchance but right now she’s sitting pretty. Look at that posture!
The Middle East horsetrade are rounding into form. Shaping up real nice. Israel, Saudia, and UAE are all being rude to the US right now, causing headache. All three are pretexts for the respective regime changes to come.
But that’s just the warmup. Onto the main event!
March 14, that’s today for all yous out there keeping score, is a big day for the two-way, three-horse trade that sees Ukraine go to Russia in return for Venezuela and Bolivia going to the US.
Feeling GOOD about the Chevron takeover of Venezuelan production this morning. Nuff sed!
And feeling GOOD about the announcement also this morning that a US private equity firm is going to be controlling Bolivian gas pipeline exports – as in, stopping them. Because Bolivia needs to redistribute the energy so it can supply the US with lithium and stuff. It’s the same-day signal that Bolivia and Venezuela are part of the same trade.
Also this morning, on the other side of the trade, Russia took the (other) nuclear option that is stopping agricultural exports from three countries including Belarus. Not feeling GOOD about the famines though. And the knock-on effects.
Today was a big day for the HTOE.

Posted by: reante | Mar 14 2022 19:48 utc | 349

This isn’t Afghanistan
This is well worth the read… and the link to the reddit thread. He should have read. Andrei’s blog

Posted by: Goldhoarder | Mar 15 2022 11:34 utc | 351

Caught on Bellum acta telegram channel:
#BREAKING
🇸🇦🇨🇳🛢💴 — The Authorities of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia are reportedly considering accepting Chinese’s Yuan instead of Dollars for Chinese oil sales, the 🇺🇸💰 WSJ reports.

Posted by: Boo | Mar 15 2022 14:10 utc | 353