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March 12, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-24

Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict ...

Posted by b on March 12, 2022 at 15:33 UTC | Permalink

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Anyone else think it's a bad idea for Putin to meet in Israel?

Posted by: Seer | Mar 12 2022 15:34 utc | 1

https://m.slashdot.org/story/397353 about neon

Posted by: Mark Gaughan | Mar 12 2022 15:41 utc | 2

Well Seer, I understood he owned an apartment there........one he bought for a retired teacher he respected and it passed back to him when she died

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 12 2022 15:47 utc | 3

Did Prime Minister of Israel really recommended Zelensky to give up and make peace with Russia even if losing most of Ukraine under command of pro Russia new regime?

Posted by: Frankie | Mar 12 2022 15:49 utc | 4

Anyone else think it's a bad idea for Putin to meet in Israel?

Posted by: Seer | Mar 12 2022 15:34 utc | 1

Yes, a very bad idea.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 12 2022 15:51 utc | 5

Bar flies talk of a false flag attack being organised in Ukraine. You lost me: what on earth would be the point of doing that?

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 15:53 utc | 6

I see that the Russians are saying Weapon's convoys from NATO are fair game.

Posted by: Jpc | Mar 12 2022 15:56 utc | 7

worth repeating - mearsheimers video Why is Ukraine the West's Fault?

or, here is a pdf from the same fellow on the topic - Why the Ukraine Crisis Is
the West’s Fault

Posted by: james | Mar 12 2022 16:01 utc | 8

Posted by: Seer | Mar 12 2022 15:34 utc | 1


Anyone else think it's a bad idea for Putin to meet in Israel?

Yes. The sheikh explains why:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YF0H5fnvis

(From an Islamic eschatology point of view, of course ...)


Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 12 2022 16:02 utc | 9

2nd link didn't come thru.. here is the full link

https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf

Posted by: james | Mar 12 2022 16:02 utc | 10

So, Zelensky, who is president of only other country except Israel that customary has top government position run by jews, wants to negotiate in "neutral" country - jewish homeland.

Right.

Posted by: Abe | Mar 12 2022 16:04 utc | 12

@ Seer 1

the Saker posted FM Lavrov’s Presser after talks with FM Turkey and FM Ukraine, March 10, 2022. One word, Impressive.

Your question is answered: (Excerpt)
https://thesaker.is/fm-lavrovs-statements-following-talks-with-fm-turkey-and-fm-ukraine/

Question: President of Kazakhstan Kassym-Jomart Tokayev earlier proposed Kazakhstan as a platform for negotiations between Russia and Ukraine. Is Russia considering this proposal and when can the next negotiations between the conflicting parties be held?

Sergey Lavrov: Russia is grateful to everyone who, out of good intentions, offers their services in helping to resolve the current grave internal Ukrainian crisis and who is ready to help find a solution, taking into account the concerns of all parties, and based on a balance of interests. The problem is that those proposals (which, as I have already said, we are certain that our Turkish friends and our Kazakhstani friends have made with the best of intentions) are not used by the Ukrainian side, which continues to substitute any real action to fulfil its obligations with external effects.
I remember that they wanted to relocate the Contact Group to Kazakhstan, when the Minsk agreements were still breathing; they also suggested Turkey as a platform. I am certain that the motive behind all this has been their reluctance to do what they must, do what we have agreed upon. But, as President Vladimir Putin said, and as we have been reiterating, Russia is ready for a variety of formats if they have added value, and are not convened just to do more talking.
[.]

Note: Minsk Agreement died.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 12 2022 16:06 utc | 13

I don’t see this military police operation lasting more than the end of the next week. I don’t think Putin will personally get involved. Some of the identified murderers from Odessa will be paraded. Reversal of some of the criminally confiscated items like privately owned yachts will happen. Some Topols will show up in Lavov, Khinzals will be flashed. Pressure on Europeans to engage in meaningful European security structure will commence without Americans.

Posted by: Milos | Mar 12 2022 16:09 utc | 14

Two Oliver Stone Ukraine documentaries have been removed (censored) from Youtube and from Vimeo.

They can be seen at Rumble.
Ukraine on Fire (2016)
Revealing Ukraine (2019)
both from Global Tree Pictures

Posted by: C_A | Mar 12 2022 16:11 utc | 15

RT: Attacks in the West on anything Russian are getting physical: the word ‘murderers’ was sprayed on the Russian House of Science and Culture in Berlin, a Molotov cocktail was thrown at a Russian cultural institution in Paris, and the Russian Community Centre in Vancouver was defaced with paint.

https://rumble.com/vx6ua9-acts-of-vandalism-against-russian-institutions-spike-in-the-west.html

The anti Russia hysteria in the West is mind boggling. Everybody hates everything Russian be that music, ballet, literature or anything.

Rachel Maddow and one of her guests suggested that Putin is somehow worse than Hitler because he (Hitler) didn’t kill ethnic Germans.

At the same time the EU elites are having meetings at the Versailles where they decided sanctions against Russia that will undoubtedly hurt EU citizens.

Their sheer incompetence is really scary.

Posted by: DG | Mar 12 2022 16:12 utc | 16

I’m trying to post a comment and I can’t.

Posted by: DG | Mar 12 2022 16:14 utc | 17

Seems to me, that the only thing saving the Ukraine at the moment, is the reserve the Russians are showing in their defensive war. Unlike the empire's wars, which are total, Russia's engagement with Ukraine is limited, so it'll take more time.

Russia must stay committed, the new multi-polar alignment depends on it. Throwing off the empire's shackles won't happen overnight, nor be pretty, but, necessary.

Just my opinion..

P.S. Had the empire/NATO been receptive to Putin's initial security requests, this war might not have happened. IMO, it's all on the U$A/NATO's snubbing of Putin's request...

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 12 2022 16:14 utc | 18

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 15:53 utc | 6

Bar flies talk of a false flag attack being organised in Ukraine. You lost me: what on earth would be the point of doing that?

The modus operandi in Ukraine is the same as in Libya and Syria. White Helmets and other terrorists murder children in front of cameras with bombs or poisonous gasses. Then demand that NATO establishes a "No-Fly Zone", in effect starting a world war with Russia.

P.S. - I notice that my friend and colleague Adam Larson has published a new post on our "Libyan Civil War" blog (now renamed "Monitor of Massacre Marketing")

Attacks on Apartment Blocks and a Russian Supply Column in Borodyanka

Dmytro Kuleba, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, tweeted, on March 3: "Each time when Russian liars say they don’t drop bombs on Ukrainian cities, show this photo of a residential apartment building in Borodyanka, Kyiv region. Russians bombed the town for two days, killing many civilians. Stop barbaric Russia now. Close Ukrainian sky. Act now!" There's a photo of a building blown up, along with a claim the Russians did it, beside much else (but nothing that made such a dramatic single image), and soon after agreement reached that the Russians now occupied Borodyanka. That should suffice to convince most people what happened and why.

Also see part 1 and the other new posts on Ukraine.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 12 2022 16:25 utc | 19

Posted by: Milos | Mar 12 2022 16:09 utc | 13


I don’t see this military police operation lasting more than the end of the next week.


It's going to take a lot longer than that, for a mix of reasons:

- The Ukrainian leadership and their Sith masters in the Anglo-American empire will seek to bog the Russians down in circular negotiations.
- The Ukrainian leadership and their Sith masters in the Anglo-American empire will seek to bog the Russians down in some something that resembles a guerrilla war (but is really just a form of orchestrated chaos) using Western intelligence agencies and their imported bashi-bazoukhs.
- The leadership of the US/UK/NATO will never allow Ukraine to concede Russian demands as it would effectively be an admission of defeat - an acknowledgment that "Putin won". Under the current conditions of anti-Putin hysteria, there is no face-saving climb-down for the Anglo-American empire.
- "Sunk Cost Fallacy", "Cognitive Dissonance" and every other cognitive defect at play will prevent the western power structure from seeking an accord with Putin. It's going to take a lot longer for Russia to convince them that there really is now other way out ...

Also, the cascading network of cause and effect unleashed by by this event and amplified by the actions of the West has resulted in system of such complexity that it's impossible to predict when it will reach equilibrium again.

I'm giving it another month at minimum.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 12 2022 16:28 utc | 20

EtinLA #15 I am not saying anything about post military operation timing. Time is on Russian side. Europe is the one pressed very hard. So it will be up to them to initiate. I don’t expect EU will stay coherent, and some countries like Germany, France, Italy and perhaps Hungary and few others will be the first to push for these strategic negotiations. And yes, I agree, it might take time to come up with an agreement. A change in Brussels might occur (Borel, Ursula and others out) before these negotiations commence.

Posted by: Milos | Mar 12 2022 16:34 utc | 21

Arch Bungle #18 No guerrilla war, no bogging down, this is a Western wrong assumption.

Posted by: Milos | Mar 12 2022 16:41 utc | 22

@ Petri Krohn | Mar 12 2022 16:25 utc | 17 petri - thanks for explaining that to jorgen... ditto my thoughts...

Posted by: james | Mar 12 2022 16:42 utc | 23

According to Telegram channel Mayor i General, the mayor of Gostomel (Kiev Oblast) Yuriy Prilipko was killed by SBU because he organized talks between Russian Armed Forces and Ukraine’s Special Operations Forces to let civilians leave the city.

Posted by: S | Mar 12 2022 16:42 utc | 24

test loading post

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 12 2022 16:48 utc | 25

Posted by: Milos | Mar 12 2022 16:09 utc | 13
I don’t see this military police operation lasting more than the end of the next week.

The Russians are moving slowly and the West wants this to last for 20 years turning it into another Afghanistan. Eventually this will go on the back burner of the Western news cycle. Basically they will get bored with it and move onto other stories.

Such is the attention span of Westerners. Meanwhile, they will pay dearly out of their wages as the raw materials move into another sphere of influence; largely by their own doing.

The created system is complex as another poster noted and it could turn in any direction including a slow roll to WW III.

Posted by: circumspect | Mar 12 2022 16:50 utc | 26

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 12 2022 16:25 utc | 17

I wrote about Libya and Syria, I know how and why false flags where used (mostly in Syria, Benghazi was a lie, not a false flag).

But your post doesn’t answer my question: why would THE US (as bar flies claim they are about to) organise a false flag in Ukraine now. To set up a NFZ? Forget it, that couldn’t even be done over Syria, because of the Russian presence.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 16:51 utc | 27

posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 15:53 utc | 6

"Bar flies talk of a false flag attack being organised in Ukraine. You lost me: what on earth would be the point of doing that?"

Two possibilities come to mind:

1. To try to draw the US into a conflict with Russia, ala Pearl Harbor.

“ Roosevelt] brought up the event that we are likely to be attacked perhaps next Monday, for the Japanese are notorious for making an attack without warning, and the question was what we should do. The question was how we should maneuver them into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves."
Richard N. Current, "How Stimson Meant to 'Maneuver' the Japanese," Mississippi Valley Historical Review Vol. 40, No. 1 (Jun., 1953), pp. 67-74


2. Joe Biden not doing too great at the polls, and while opposition to Biden is getting more and more censored from Americans, sites are fighting back. Fox news is running a series on Hunter Biden,even the Guardian is raising the issue and background on Joe Biden is raising the issue and background on Joe and Hunter Biden. Folks tend to unite behind an incumbent in time of war.

Posted by: erichwwk | Mar 12 2022 16:51 utc | 28

Posted by: C_A | Mar 12 2022 16:28 utc | 19
Re Oliver Stone videos - They are both available here although without full screen.
Oliver Stone vids
I'm watching Ukraine on Fire right now. History laid out very well.

"Everybody Must Get Stoned." - Dylan

Posted by: waynorinorway | Mar 12 2022 16:53 utc | 29

Umm… Are We The Baddies? (Caitlin’s Newsletter, Caitlin Johnstone, March 11, 2022)

Reuters reports that Facebook and Instagram are now allowing calls for the death of Russians and Russian leaders in exemption from the platforms' hate speech terms of service due to the war in Ukraine:
"Meta Platforms will allow Facebook and Instagram users in some countries to call for violence against Russians and Russian soldiers in the context of the Ukraine invasion, according to internal emails seen by Reuters on Thursday, in a temporary change to its hate speech policy."

Twitter has also altered its rules against incitement and death threats in the case of Russian leaders and military personnel, as Ben Norton explains here for Multipolarista.

Last month we also learned that Facebook is now allowing users to praise the Ukrainian neo-Nazi Azov Battalion because of the war, a move that is arguably the most liberal thing that has ever happened.

Western institutions everywhere are rejecting all things Russia with such a savage degree of xenophobia it really ought to shock anyone who was born after the 1800s. Everything from Russian athletes to Russian musicians to Russian-made films to Russian composers to Russian Netflix shows to lectures about Russian authors to Russian restaurants to Russian vodka to Russian-bred cats to Russian trees to dishes that sound a little too much like "Putin" have been cancelled to varying degrees around the western world.

Normally when the US and its allies are involved in a war they'll at least pay lip service to the notion that they have nothing but good will for the people of the enemy nation, claiming they only oppose their oppressive rulers. With Russia it's just a complete rejection of the entire culture, the entire ethnicity. It's a widespread promotion of hatred for the actual people because of who they are.

Posted by: S | Mar 12 2022 16:56 utc | 30

You can find stone's films on bitchute, as well

Ukraine on Fire
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ojxAboKHI1UF/

Revealing Ukraine
https://www.bitchute.com/video/oyIrXISOHZvM/

Perhps b could fix the rumble problem

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 12 2022 17:02 utc | 32

Also, you can use the Yandex search engine instead of Google and DuckDuckGo, or anything else.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 12 2022 17:04 utc | 33

@ Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 16:51 utc | 28

the purpose it to further cement the animosity and hate or worse towards all of russia.... this narrative has been building for some time.. it reaching fever pitch as we speak.... a false flag will further cement the hate and vemon towards russia and all things russian.. it reminds me of the attempt to justify the actions towards the jewish people in the 20th century in the lead up to world war 2, but it is being done to the russians here... sad to say, but i am ashamed to be living on the planet with such monsters as these propaganda artists who will not stop and desist, but instead wish to cultivate an atmosphere of hate, violence and much more that is so very wrong in our world today... we need to lessen this, instead of encouraging this.... that to me is the purpose of the false flag... these people are egging on ww3 here and trying to set the tune for the next 10- 20 years, if we are lucky enough to make it into the future..

Posted by: james | Mar 12 2022 17:11 utc | 34

Posted by: erichwwk | Mar 12 2022 16:51 utc | 29

Well, trying to drag the US in to the war was the general purpose in Syria, didn’t work very well (Trump lobbed a tomahawk once). So if the claim was that the Azov will do, it would be questionable, but make some sense. But the claim is that the US will do it, and that makes no sense to me.

As for BIden etc, most US voters don’t care about countries that don’t start with an u, end with an a and have an s in the middle. Risking organising a real biological attack with that little to gain I think is out of the question.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 17:18 utc | 35

German translation of Lavrov's press conference after the foreign minister meeting in Turkey:
Pressekonferenz Lawrow

Posted by: Clara | Mar 12 2022 17:24 utc | 36

Links to Oliver Stone’s documentaries on Rumble:

Ukraine on Fire (2016)

Revealing Ukraine (2019)

Posted by: S | Mar 12 2022 17:33 utc | 37

Below is a ZH posting quote about the next turn of the Ukraine worm

"
Setting the stage for a potential major escalation with Western and NATO powers, the Kremlin warned on Saturday that the Russian military is prepared to target Western arms shipments that are continuing to pour into Ukraine. Russia's Deputy FM Sergei Ryabkov said on state TV that Washington had been informed in the last days that Moscow will see weapons supply convoys entering Ukraine as "legitimate targets".

"We warned the United States that the orchestrated pumping of weapons from a number of countries is not just a dangerous move, it is a move that turns these convoys into legitimate targets," Ryabkov said in the remarks, which served as a severe warning to the West.
"

I see empire/MIC seeing this as a twofer. They get somebody to blow up all the old stuff and increase demand for new stuff....can't win for losing.....sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 12 2022 17:34 utc | 38

Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 17:18 utc | 36

I wouldn't think about a false flag in military terms, but political terms, and not with respect to internal U.S. politics. The point might be to try to pin the RF with serious war crimes accusations, and attempt to sway fence-sitters in the international political community towards the US/NATO camp. "Can you really remain quiet while the Russians carry out illegal atrocities of the most barbaric sort?"

The US has been warning both of possible Russian false flags (though that was pre-invasion) and chemical/biological/radiological attacks. Making those come to the fore would be used both to smear Russia, and to demonstrate the prescience and legitimacy of the US "intelligence community". "We were right about the Russian intent to invade -- and we were also right about the war crimes!"

Posted by: The Space Wanderer | Mar 12 2022 17:41 utc | 39

Patrick Lancaster’s YouTube channel seems to provide accurate on the ground reporting from Ukraine. Here’s his interviews with witnesses to a false flag attack.
https://youtu.be/VUwXnBDOmeY

Posted by: Ken52 | Mar 12 2022 17:43 utc | 40

Posted by: james | Mar 12 2022 17:11 utc | 35

You often appear as one of the more sensible commentators on MoA, have you really thought this trough?

In a situation when there’s no lack of hatred towards Russia in the anglophone countries and EU you:

1 put a team together
2 give them access to real battle gas, like VX (if you are trying to pin the attack to the Russians clorine won’t do) or a pathogen like the plague.
3 and you equip them with some kind of means of delivery that looks Russian.
4 take them to a contested area and have them carry out the attack on civilians, in say Kiev.

Let’s hope you don’t get caught by the FSB in the process….

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 17:49 utc | 41

@9 Arch Bungle

They say that knowledge is power, but when you have knowledge and are charismatic at the same time; you can conquer the world.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 12 2022 17:50 utc | 42

@Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 16:51 utc | 28

why would THE US (as bar flies claim they are about to) organise a false flag in Ukraine now. To set up a NFZ? Forget it, that couldn’t even be done over Syria, because of the Russian presence.

First, the Russians are winning the war in Ukraine, and that is unacceptable from these people's point of view. So in their mind they have to reshape the public narrative and demonize the Russians even more than they already have, much as they did in Syria when The Syrian Arab Army was winning when the US was shouting "Assad must Go!".

As you have already seen in Mariupol (hospital story) and Zaporizhzhia (Nuclear power plant story) they are already busy in the job. To say forget it when it has already been two (lame) attempts is not logical. Shaping the narrative is important, because as we all know, nothing is more important than what happens on Twitter. It doesn't have to involve a NFZ, that's just a talking point.

Second, a false flag could happen in Ukraine or anywhere else. Another airliner could crash somewhere or a US sub could sink or whatever, they would blame Russia and the show would be on. The point is to further inflame the hatred towards Russia to increase the sanctions pressure and eventually start "kinetic action". With the present psychotic hysteria, nothing needs to make sense.

Third, these people are in a hurry, their backs are against the wall. They have documented years ago how they think about these things. In Rebuilding America’s Defenses (page 51) they declared their dependency on "catastrophic and catalyzing events" to bring "revolutionary change" when they can't wait:

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.
Less than a year after writing that, they got 911. Two years ago, they got - shall we call it 311 - they got the "covid" event 11 March 2020. In this situation where they are losing the war and bio-weapon truths are about to be revealed we have to assume they will try something drastic again to reshape the narrative.

Hopefully, I am wrong, but I would not bet on it.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2022 17:51 utc | 43

Posted by: The Space Wanderer | Mar 12 2022 17:41 utc | 40

A false flag in political terms, what exactly is that?

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 17:52 utc | 44

I think the security and intelligence services of the Russian Federation are on a very high alert to the probable assasination attempt on President Putin, especially after the murder of General Soleimani.
One thing that appears to me is the Russian do think along different lines to the west and I am confident they have competent strategies in place to protect V.V.P. should he decide to go to Israel.
I also suspect he won’t.

Posted by: Beibdnn | Mar 12 2022 17:53 utc | 45

Not off the hook.

to avoid Western sanctions, Abramovich transferred his Chelsea Football Club to a charitable Trust. Now he could lose his EU passport - there is a probe on "influence peddling, money-laundering, active corruption, as per the well known state media that is now banned so I will not link. Most will be unable to access.

"the Portugal police arrested senior rabbi Daniel Litvak as he was about to board a flight to Israel."

What is Litvak's connection?

"Litvak is head of the Jewish Community of Oporto which is delegated the task of vetting applications for Portuguese citizenship from descendants of Sephardic Jews. The group received its powers under a law introduced in 2013 to atone for the campaign of religious persecution during the Inquisition in Spain and Portugal in the 16th century"...[.]

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 12 2022 17:56 utc | 46

deflection from US biolabs
demonize Russia
pretext to bomb

too many people listening to Jimmy Dore and other comedians doing journalism.
There are cracks beginning to form in the narrative (Krystal Ball/Tulsi Gabbard Tucker Carlson.
folks are asking who is Black Rock and Vanguard
a false flag would serve a few purposes for the snake.
I do believe we will not have sites like MOA for much longer.

I also think it a foolish idea to trust Israel on any level at all.
Putin should not go there.

Posted by: ld | Mar 12 2022 17:56 utc | 47

After the hysteria of sanctions, accusations and threats, the west is starting to realize that they have overstepped in a undefined area that could bring many nasty surprises. We see Borell admitting that there are no more sanctions that can be applied without destroying the EU economy. He also told Biden that the EU will now pause and reflect. NATO's chief regrets to have given Zelensky the impression that NATO would welcome Ukraine very soon by training it's army and sending weapons
Zelensky has massive weapons to continue hoping that he can crush the Russian army. Now that he realizes that the west will only send weapons and money while emptying Ukraine from its population, he probably will wonder who will be left in this country if he continues on the same path.. He is knocking at every door begging for 'real' help and he gets Zoom discussions, phone calls and that's it .
If he wants to save what is left of his country,his choice is limited: accept the simple conditions set by Russia and stop listening to the Victoria Nuland and Boris Johnson and all the neocons in the US administration.

Posted by: Virgile | Mar 12 2022 17:58 utc | 48

ld 48 was a response to Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 15:53 utc | 6

Posted by: ld | Mar 12 2022 17:58 utc | 49

Posted by: circumspect | Mar 12 2022 16:50 utc | 27

Let me be more clear.

I believe Ukrainians will lay down their arms by the end of the next week.

Posted by: Milos | Mar 12 2022 18:04 utc | 50

@Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 17:18 utc | 36

Well, trying to drag the US in to the war was the general purpose in Syria, didn’t work very well (Trump lobbed a tomahawk once).

It wasn't once, and it wasn't a single Tomahawk. In April 2017 it was 59 Tomahawks, and in April 2018 it was ~100 Tomahawks. Most of these were intercepted by air defense or fell into the ocean because of electronic countermeasures. But I agree it didn't go well.

However, when we compare with Syria, the Tomahawk attacks were not the false flags, they were US attempts to get into the war because of the false flag attacks such as the Khan Shaykhun false flag attack 4 April 2017 (and a similar one in 2018), in a situation similar to Ukraine today. So such false flag attacks are indeed real and dangerous.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2022 18:04 utc | 51

@ Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 17:52 utc | 45

As I said in my comment:

The point might be to try to pin the RF with serious war crimes accusations, and attempt to sway fence-sitters in the international political community towards the US/NATO camp. "Can you really remain quiet while the Russians carry out illegal atrocities of the most barbaric sort?"

Suffice it to say, I am not implying that a false flag will necessarily occur, nor that if one does occur that it was directed by the West -- the ultranationalist/neo-Nazi/however-you-care-to-characterize-them faction seems to have plenty of agency in that regard, and then the West can blame Russia, and maybe convince some nations that have been reluctant to sanction the RF to do so.

Posted by: The Space Wanderer | Mar 12 2022 18:05 utc | 52

Ukrainian Nationalists are assaulting Ukrainian Orthodox Church parishioners: video.

Here’s some background on why this is happening. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church is a self-governing church with rights of wide autonomy under the jurisdiction of the Russian Orthodox Church since 1686. In 1991, Ukrainian Nationalists have established a new, unrecognized church, the “Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kiev Patriarchate”, headed by Filaret Denisenko. Most Ukrainian parishioners considered it illegitimate and continued to pray at the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church. In late 2018, under U.S. government pressure, the Patriarchate of Constantinople, foregoing established procedures, has renounced its 1686 decision that granted the Russian Orthodox Church the ecclesiastical jurisdiction over the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and has combined the “Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kiev Patriarchate” and another, smaller unrecognized church “Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church” into a new “Orthodox Church of Ukraine”, resulting in a major split in the Orthodox world between Orthodox Churches that support its decision and those that think the decision was illegitimate and therefore support the Russian Orthodox Church.

Posted by: S | Mar 12 2022 18:12 utc | 53

@51 3 or 4 things need to happen before negotiations begin. Azov in Mariupol surrender (or get eliminated), Kharkiv falls, UAF finds itself in a cauldron, Kiev is surrounded.

Posted by: dh | Mar 12 2022 18:13 utc | 54

Funny that. my comment is posted if I do not include a link!.

@ S 31

You omitted the Cats. The Cat Federation decreed "RF cats are sanctioned and cannot participate in shows."

Sanctions are a declaration of war and feline fanciers are not amused.

======
@ Seer 1

Double speak.

Kiev Says Israel Does Not Suggest That Ukraine Accept Russia's Proposals"

Israeli Prime Misiter Naftali Bennett does not suggest that Kiev should agree to any of Moscow's settlement demands, Ze's adviser, Podolyak said today. (source: the orange logo.)

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 12 2022 18:15 utc | 55

Once the cauldrons and Mariupol are dealt with in the south east, large parts of the Russian and LDNR forces will be freed up to attack the rest of Ukraine, and events will rapidly speed up. At the same time, there will be large areas where the Russians can display how they are treating the Ukrainian people well and how the Ukronationalists and Azov stationed themselves in civilian areas. Then add to that the drip, drip, drip of documents on the US biolabs and the Ukie plans to invade the Donbass.

The US will get very desperate to come up with some false flag to offset the narrative, especially in the Rest of the World which has better access to a balanced view. Add to that the obvious impotence when faced with the Russian invasion which will be another hit to US hegemony after the failures in Iraq and Afghanistan and the inability to force a surrender from Iraq.

In the US, and especially Europe, the impact of accelerating inflation (especially oil and natural gas) will quickly dim the population's support for the sanctions. Especially with the ability to withstand the sanctions much better than so many Western "experts" assume, and the ROWs turn away from the US$ to continue to trade with Russia.

Thankfully, I see the Western narrative falling apart in the next few weeks and the insanity of the Russia-hating be pulled back in Europe and Canada especially as elites start to understand what they have done. Climbing down from the high horse they have been on will be a tricky proposition without losing all credibility.

Posted by: Roger | Mar 12 2022 18:21 utc | 56

Cont’d from #54

Since 1992 and especially since 2014 Ukrainian Nationalists have been using every dirty trick in the book to hijack parishes of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, forcing parishioners to convert to the “Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kiev Patriarchate” (now “Orthodox Church of Ukraine”). There are many videos of Ukrainian Nationalists abusing UOC parishioners, but this is the first one with them openly brandishing assault rifles.

Posted by: S | Mar 12 2022 18:26 utc | 57

James@35 convinced me.
When one considers the mileage that the shameless liars employed by the White House (and its various satellite outhouses) manage to get out of hoaxes and fictional allegations a False Flag 'crime' would be very desirable.
It is notable that the liars referred to above, seem to have abandoned any attempt to make their accusations credible as evidenced yesterday at the UN where the US delegate not only denied the Nuland story but insisted that the secret sites involved were merely public health laboratories.
The Russians should offer the US Embassy in wherever it might now be located a flag of truce to visit one of these labs and enjoy a snack there.

My guess, regarding the current hysteria in Canada is that one of its purposes is to recall the 'Trucker' protesting anti-vax mobs to their political home in which hating Russia is one of the articles of faith.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 12 2022 18:27 utc | 58

FYI...

DuckDuckGo has been lost to the Borg:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/thomas-woods/guess-whos-protecting-us-from-disinformation-now/

Posted by: Mann Friedmann | Mar 12 2022 18:30 utc | 59

Posted by b on March 12, 2022 at 15:33 UTC | Permalink

Yes, bad idea. Putin going to the Bandit State only gives legitimacy to that barbaric and expansionist fake entity.

https://www.jns.org/at-un-russia-denounces-israels-sovereignty-in-golan-heights-after-jerusalem-backs-ukraine/

Posted by: Paul | Mar 12 2022 18:34 utc | 60

@Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 15:53 utc | 6

Simple. To isolate Russia and/or extend the fight to China:
Russia shall not fall so long as long as it's supported by China and the rest of the SCO. A false flag chemical attack would make it more difficult for China to overtly support Russia; but if they do, it will be used as an excuse to extend the sanctions to them.

As I said before:
- the U.S. is not seeking victory against China or Russia just conflict: it still benefits if the EU or the Quad lose.
- Europe wants a war against Russia: just because Nazi Germany was defeated doesn't mean the dreams of Lebensraum died; they just want the U.S. to do the heavy-lifting and Ukraine to do the bleeding and dying.
- Ukraine is doing what they are doing because they don't have any other choice. All the Western 'aid' are in the form of loans; without the gas transit meal ticket from Russia, there is no way for them to get out of the debt trap they got themselves into. Ukraine is at the complete mercy of the Western financial system, so they resorted to extorting Russia by threatening its citizens, they just went too far this time by attempting to go nuclear.

Posted by: Sid Victor Cattoni | Mar 12 2022 18:38 utc | 61

Ukrainian Armed Forces store ammo at a house in Kiev suburbs, Russian Armed Forces strike it: video.

Next time someone is crying about Russia’s indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure, show them this video.

Posted by: S | Mar 12 2022 18:38 utc | 62

Why would usa do a false flag now.

Bio weapons discovery is potentially extreme bad news, so make diversion.
Denazification is going very well as the cream of the nazis have been sucked in and trapped.
UKUSA has lost control of its military and economic instruments of coercion and EU is precarious.
The old world order is in disarray and demonstrably stupid, see Nuland and Rubio as well as Biden.
The USA hates to be seen losing.
Plus the West is run by vulgar warmongers who MUST maintain hate russia.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 12 2022 18:41 utc | 63

Posted by: Roger | Mar 12 2022 18:21 utc | 57

Exactly. Roger you’re more eloquent than me, this is what I wanted to say in the first place.

Posted by: Milos | Mar 12 2022 18:43 utc | 64

Ukrainians fearmongering EU with bombing Paris :-)
https://t.me/stranaua/30527

Video is not ideal (jets too big) but made enjoyably good enough.

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 12 2022 18:46 utc | 65

In Volnovkha journalist Patrick Lancester interviewed many local people, which says that the army from Ukraine with purpose destroed many apartments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbiplu3Cyjg

Posted by: Mikkael | Mar 12 2022 18:48 utc | 66

Gonzalo Lira - From Kharkhov, Ukraine

Zelensky, Hunter Biden — and Their Sugar Daddy, Kolomoisky

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2022 18:48 utc | 67

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2022 18:04 utc | 52

Ok, so I should have said “lobbed the odd tomahawk”. (Most where shot down or missed their target.) The point is that the false flags didn’t work: the US or NATO didn’t get seriously involved in the war.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 18:53 utc | 68

On Putin meeting people in Israel.

There is a vast transformation unleashed through the Ukraine correction. The world allegiance structure is up for grabs. The UKUSA has lost its mojo. So I see a transformer with the status of Russia needing to set out its hand to all world leaders who will listen and might assist in in getting UKUSA into place of listening rather than its present place of screaming and throwing hate and stuff around the room.

The UKUSA played its hand and it resembles a bio hazard busted flush.

Retrieving peace from this moment is paramount imo.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 12 2022 18:56 utc | 69

Posted by: The Space Wanderer | Mar 12 2022 18:05 utc | 53

Sure, there could be false flags. By many actors. What I’m questioning is the bars seeming consensus that the US is orchestrating one as we speak.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 18:57 utc | 70

Posted by: Sid Victor Cattoni | Mar 12 2022 18:38 utc | 62

That makes even less sense. Organise a false flag so that China gets involved. How, exactly?

And if Europe wanted a war with Russia, don’t you think they would have enough reason by now? With out a complicated mission that would probably fail?

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 19:01 utc | 71

In Cyprus, they supported the special operation of Russia in Ukraine. The action took place near the Russian embassy.

Posted by: alaff | Mar 12 2022 19:03 utc | 72

There's been some reports about the germans having second thoughts about the cost and consequences to europe. So could b or any other native German speaker either confirm this or blow my pipe dream away? Could this be the moment that europeans finally awake and free themselves from the shackles of the empire?

Posted by: cindy6 | Mar 12 2022 19:04 utc | 73

Ok, so I can’t answer each of you but you all make more or less the same (non) argument, so it isn’t necessary.

Let’s move to the practical side of things. This false flag of yours: how would they go about organising it? A chem/bio attack on civilians isn’t a small undertaking, you know. Any ideas?

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 19:06 utc | 74

#71

Its what the UKUSA do. Last week the hospital, this week mabe the church or apartment block, a month past it was the school, next month a nuclear reactor. The UKUSA eithether do a false fag or beat one up. Business as usual.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 12 2022 19:10 utc | 75

Seer 1

Nope. Israel is the Switzerland, remember?

Posted by: reante | Mar 12 2022 19:11 utc | 76

the NEW Switzerland...

Posted by: reante | Mar 12 2022 19:12 utc | 77

A false flag in political terms, what exactly is that
Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 17:52 utc | 45

your question has been asked and answered several times
are you purposely obtuse or have you an agenda?

Posted by: ld | Mar 12 2022 19:12 utc | 78

Just to make some people jealous.
Gas (Petrol in the EU) is now at $1.80 per gallon in St. Petersburg. (54.3 roubles per litre) It is subsidised though.
****

Interesting proposition if true, which might be an indication of future Russian plans for Ukraine. Break it up into individual Oblast "Republics" and then form a federation? this would consolidate the use of the favoured language in each of them.

"A Local People's Councilman Sergey Khlan, from Petro Poroshenko Party, says that Russian Federation Armed Forces' Military Administration is preparing for a Referendum in Kherson Oblast to declare an Independent Country from Ukraine, the Kherson People's Republic!"

****

A false Flag does not necessarily have to be IN Ukraine. I am thinking of the sinking of the Argentinian Cruiser Belgrano during the Falklands war by a UK submarine - well outside the pre-declared area for hostilities. 250 dead. ie. Hit them even if they are NOT in a designated area. Similar to the new statement by the Russian declaring that arms shipments to Ukraine are "legitimate targets"

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 12 2022 19:13 utc | 79

#75

Dream up your own horrors instead of getting us trapped into designer mode just for you and your handlers.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 12 2022 19:15 utc | 80

Frankie 4,


Yes, Bennett did. Because Israel is the new Switzerland. That's what neutral parties do - make good, sound suggestions. Tulsi Gabbard was the first to make that suggestion.

Posted by: reante | Mar 12 2022 19:15 utc | 81

@Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 19:06 utc | 75

A chem/bio attack on civilians isn’t a small undertaking, you know. Any ideas?

Yes it is. It can be as small and ridiculous as you wish it to be, just like the Khan Sheikhoun Incident and it will be used to completely corrupt organisations like OPCW and UN and be used as pretexts for military/political attacks. You can repeat this as many times as you want if you are NATO/US.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2022 19:16 utc | 82

@Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 18:57 utc | 71

False flags are the MO of the US, as shown in the Syria "gas attacks" and the WMD and "babies thrown out of incubators" bullshit used to invade Iraq twice (and the Gulf of Tonkin incident to escalate the Vietnam war, the sinking of the Maine to start the attack on the Spanish colonies etc., the "Zimmerman Telegram" and the sinking of the Lusitania [shown to have been carrying armaments in its hold] to drive support for the US entry into WW1). Also, provocations to get other nations to attack such as the crippling oil embargo on Japan which preceded Pearl harbour. Let alone the murky depths of the "surprising" extensive failures of US intelligence agencies and the FBI that facilitated the 9/11 attack.

You can see a desperation to concoct one out of anything, such as the attempt to use the "shelling of a nuclear reactor" bullshit, and the Ukies cutting the mains power supply to Chernobyl plus many other attempts to turn incidents into a cause celebrate to demonize the Russians.

Posted by: Roger | Mar 12 2022 19:18 utc | 83

@ james | Mar 12 2022 17:11 utc | 35

it reminds me of the attempt to justify the actions towards the jewish people in the 20th century in the lead up to world war 2, but it is being done to the russians here... sad to say

Yes, and it's also sad that many of those who "further cement the animosity and hate or worse towards all of russia" are themselves Jewish.

Posted by: Lawrence Miller | Mar 12 2022 19:20 utc | 84

@ Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 19:01 utc | 72

- China has steadfastly refused to condemn Russia's security actions in Ukraine.
- China is Russia's largest trading partner, Russia's economy will not collapse so long as China supports it.
- China is also the EU's largest trading partner.
- The U.S. wants to cut Europe off from China, to make it more dependent on itself.
- The U.S. has been looking for an excuse (any excuse) to get the Europe extend sanctions currently on Russia to China.

A false flag would be conducted to either get China to abandon Russia, or to split Europe from China.

Posted by: Sid Victor Cattoni | Mar 12 2022 19:22 utc | 85

A provisional list of the tubes found in US bio labs in Ukraine.

"Some of the documents from American biological laboratories in Ukraine and the strains they study are presented below:
1. Yersinia pestis – plague vaccine strain (5 tubes)
2. Leptospira interrongans – leptospirosis (232 tubes)

3. Bacillus anthracis – anthrax vaccine strain (6 tubes)
4. Brucella abortus – vaccine strain of brucellosis (10 tubes)
5. Francisella tularensis – tularemia vaccine strain (30 tubes)
6. Listeria monocytogeries – listeriosis (10 tubes)

7. Yersinia pseudotuberculosis – pseudotuberculosis (5 tubes)
This issue is not going away and the US will have to answer it."

"Health purposes" according to the cookie monster.

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 12 2022 19:23 utc | 86

I see empire/MIC seeing this as a twofer. They get somebody to blow up all the old stuff and increase demand for new stuff....can't win for losing.....sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 12 2022 17:34 utc | 39

Maybe you were being facetious but obviously that wouldn't make even the tiniest dent in the supply.

Posted by: reante | Mar 12 2022 19:24 utc | 87

@86

Yes precisely. The purpose of this operation is to goad, or, if that fails, fake, some kind of action that will force China to 'stand up' against Russia, and then split them. Rehash of the (American encouraged) Sino-Soviet Split that paved the way for the neoliberal assault.

And yes, this false flag even might be a chemical or even biological attack.

But here's the thing.

The ultimate, 'weapon of mass destruction' is nuclear. Wouldn't be absolutely the best for the Americans if they either force, or goad, or fake a nuclear attack by Russia on Ukraine? That would be enough to force China to separate itself from Russia.

The US has a vested interest in pushing this whole thing absolutely as far as they can, and 'encouraging' the Russians to go as far as they can.

Posted by: Hidari | Mar 12 2022 19:27 utc | 88

@Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2022 19:16 utc | 83

The OPCW is already completely corrupted, as shown by the whistleblowers whose report was completely rewritten to concur with the narrative of a gas attack. Also the ridiculous Novichok bullshit, supposedly the most deadly nerve agent but which never kills its victims! The UN is the same, António Guterres can't even hide his (and previous UN head's) sellouts to large corporations and Western interests. Just look at the WHO and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and pharmaceutical corporations. The UN has never been the same after the US blocked the second term of Boutros-Ghali in the face of his overwhelming support from other nations. His successor, Kofi Annan was a complete tool who sold out the UN.

An alternative grouping needs to be set up, perhaps a Rest of the World UN, to escape the Western dominated UN that sits on land donated by the Rothschilds and allows the US to decide which UN representatives are allowed to visit in direct violation of its charter.

Posted by: Roger | Mar 12 2022 19:27 utc | 89

Posted by: Seer | Mar 12 2022 15:34 utc | 1

"Anyone else think it's a bad idea for Putin to meet in Israel?

Correction to my post @61

It was posted by Seer NOT posted by b.

Here is my comment again:

Yes, bad idea. Putin going to the Bandit State only gives legitimacy to that barbaric and expansionist fake entity.

https://www.jns.org/at-un-russia-denounces-israels-sovereignty-in-golan-heights-after-jerusalem-backs-ukraine/ "

Posted by: Paul | Mar 12 2022 19:36 utc | 90

@Roger | Mar 12 2022 19:27 utc | 90

Agreed wrt. description of OPCW.

As for the UN, I see your point. However, the goal of these guys is to further destroy the UN and establish the "Rules Based Order" where the "west" make up the rules as they go and nothing else matters. I don't know what the correct way forward is wrt. the UN, but at least the headquarters must be moved from New York to some more suitable location e.g. Luang Prabang (Laos) that someone suggested some time ago.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2022 19:43 utc | 91

As long as the Jewish satrapy of the US is not "dealt with" with a "huge" nuclear thrill, this anti-Russia thing will go on exacerbating. Because the globalist Jewry, the all-time money-printers, want to preserve some exchange value to their fiat wealth, their tool to enslave the world.

Posted by: hamparsoum torossian | Mar 12 2022 19:45 utc | 92

Seer | Mar 12 2022 15:34 utc | (1)

Anyone else think it's a bad idea for Putin to meet in Israel?

Anybody with half a brain !

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Mar 12 2022 19:45 utc | 93

the Bennett advises Zelensky to surrender to Russia, Zelensky refuses - Ukrainian official is a fabricated story. i don't believe it. if such a thing happened it was planned for an audience, for public opinion.

Posted by: annie | Mar 12 2022 19:46 utc | 94

Ok guys, I guess Russia lost the war then. Go figure…

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 19:53 utc | 95

Posted by: annie | Mar 12 2022 19:46 utc | 95

The story is so bizarre that it might have some truth in it.

Posted by: laguerre | Mar 12 2022 19:53 utc | 96

Why "true Aryans" hate the inhabitants of Donbass (RIA Novosti, Vladimir Kornilov, March 9, 2022 — in Russian)

For several days, we have been seeing TV reports of people escaping from the blockaded cities of Donbass (primarily Mariupol and Volnovakha) and telling what they had to go through. Many are sincerely amazed at the callousness and heartlessness of Ukrainian militants who regularly fire on civilians, whom they consider to be their fellow citizens. Women with small children, the elderly, and the disabled are forced to fight their way through minefields, through streets shelled by militants, through barbed wires and tripwires.

All the more shocking are the stories of survivors about what tens of thousands of residents of Mariupol are now experiencing, taken hostage by Ukrainian neo-Nazis from Azov, sitting in basements without light, without heat, without food or water. I think if one of these unfortunates then publishes memories of being in Nazi captivity, these memoirs will be quite comparable to the diary of Anne Frank.

By and large, decades later, we are experiencing a new seizure of Budyonnovsk by terrorists [see Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis — S]. Only this time, the number of people taken hostage increased a hundredfold. We see how painfully slowly the negotiations on humanitarian corridors from the cities are going on, how the Russian army and the troops of the DPR are preparing to meet the liberated people, how the Azov militants cynically upload a video of them forbidding the residents of Mariupol to leave the besieged city. In the end, we have before us the feat of the commander of the Donetsk battalion Sparta Vladimir Zhoga, Hero of the DPR and Russia, who sacrificed himself to save the civilians of Volnovakha. What a contrast his feat looks against the background of the cruelty and cynicism of Ukrainian militants, hiding behind the backs of civilians and using those as human shields.

For many Russians who have not been closely following the development of the political situation in the Ukraine, this contrast is shocking. After all, aren’t we talking about people who once lived in one country? Why, then, do some rush against the embrasure to pull women and children out of hell, while others create this hell? The fact is that those others have long ceased to consider the inhabitants of Donbass as their own. For Azov and other Nazi formations, Mariupol, Volnovakha, Kramatorsk are the territory they occupy, and the inhabitants of these cities are nothing more than trophies. Which is once again confirmed by the testimonies of residents of the liberated settlements of the region, who talk about the attitude of the Ukrainian occupation authorities towards them: “We weren’t considered humans. Because we are Donbass.”

And the process of alienation and dehumanization of the inhabitants of this industrial region in the eyes of the Kiev authorities and a significant part of the population of the Ukraine began long before the events of 2014. Even during the “Orange Maidan” of 2004, when the center of Kiev was first filled with residents of predominantly rural areas of Western Ukraine, on the houses adjacent to the tent city of the protesters, there were announcements “Don’t pee in the stairwell — you’re not from Donetsk, are you?” That was a political technology. I even remember how a well-known Ukrainian political consultant, who later took a high position in the “orange” administration, attributed the authorship of these posters to himself and boasted about it.

Here is how the Kiev journalist Andrei Manchuk recalled this: “In those days, I heard a joke about “stairwells” many times. My friends repeated it with pleasure, contrasting them to the ‘civic-conscious’ and ‘freedom-loving’ population of other regions.”

Then the spread of hatred towards Donbass and everything Donetsk-related became a part of many political campaigns in Kiev and Galicia, a kind of routine. For example, in the summer of 2013, even before the Euromaidan, cute girls and boys appeared in Kiev in white T-shirts with an image of a fist squeezing a caught rat by the tail and the slogan “Off with Donetsk people!”. The special flavor of this campaign was that it was carried out by the European Party of Ukraine. It is not surprising that soon on the Maidan, which allegedly stood for “European values”, such a slogan, inciting hatred for the inhabitants of the whole region, was one of the main ones along with Russophobic chants like “Those who aren’t jumping up and down are Moskals” [at which point everybody is jumping up and down — S].

Again, even before Maidan 2014, projects were launched on Ukrainian TV channels that were even “proving” a genetic difference between Ukrainians and Russians. The authors of these projects came to the conclusion that the Ukrainians are (what a surprise!) “true Aryans”—well, who else!

I remember, when Kiev launched its bloody “anti-terrorist operation” in Donbass, one of the leaders of the Right Sector and the founders of the Azov Battalion (the one that is now exterminating the inhabitants of Mariupol) Yaroslav Babich referred to this very TV show, explaining: “A lot of the people in Donbass are Russians who came to the region after a famine set up by Stalin to exterminate the Ukrainians. They have different genes.” There’s your racial theory, pulled up as a justification for the extermination of civilians in Donbass, no matter how “ridiculous” it may seem to German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. That is, now the “true Aryans” from Azov, created with the participation of Babich (he hanged himself a year after this interview), are killing the inhabitants of Mariupol, because they are “racially different”.

And the author of that sensational program about “true Aryans” now calls Russia a “barbarian country” and is surprised by the explosions of shells, which, eight years after the start of the war in Donbass, became audible at his home in Kiev. He certainly does not see a causal relationship between his racist theories and the cannonade outside the window.

At about the same time that Babich was justifying his right to bomb the Donetsk people on racial differences, the then–Prime Minister of the Ukraine Arseniy Yatsenyuk called the inhabitants of Donbass “subhumans” on the government’s official website. At the same time, Ukrainian journalist Bogdan Butkevich called the main problem of Donbass the fact that “a wild number of absolutely unnecessary people” live there. He calculated that there were up to one and a half million such people there. And he gave his recipe for getting rid of this “problem”: “There is a certain category of people who just have to be killed.” Which, in fact, the Nazis of Azov are doing now. At the very time when the Western community sees no signs of genocide.

And the current President of the Ukraine Vladimir Zelenskiy did not spare epithets either in relation to the inhabitants of Donbass. Even before he was president, he praised Ukrainian militants for “protecting against scum”. In the very first days of his presidency, he admired the Azov militants in that same Mariupol at a festival organized by the Nazis. Then he calmly called his opponents “not people, but specimens”. And he directly confronted the inhabitants of Donbass with a choice: if you consider yourself Russian, then you must leave your native region forever and “look for a place in Russia”.

Even the term “Donbass” was condemned last year and called “wrong”. Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of the Ukraine Aleksey Danilov, who reports directly to the president, said: “There is no such thing as Donbass.” He explained it this way: “This is a definition that is being imposed on us by the Russian Federation—‘the people of Donbass’, ‘the choice of Donbass’, ‘Donbass will never be brought to its knees’ ”.

And only the actions of the Russian army forced Zelenskiy to remember both the word “Donbass” and even the catchphrase that Danilov denounced as a Russian psy-ops. Recently, in another video, the President of the Ukraine suddenly addressed the people of Donetsk in Russian: “Donbass! Remember how they told you: ‘No one has ever forced Donbass to its knees and no one ever will!’ These words in Donetsk, in Lugansk are known to everyone. They were often repeated before. What about now?”

Zelenskiy is clearly not aware that these words are being repeated especially often in Donetsk and Lugansk right now, for the past eight years, while Ukrainian planes and howitzers are bombing peaceful cities in this region, and the Azov Nazis are mocking civilians. These words are literally carved on a stone in the very center of Donetsk and are constantly repeated everywhere, with every arrival of a Ukrainian shell. No one has managed to conquer Donbass over the years—neither Turchynov, nor Poroshenko, nor Zelensky himself. And the soulless attitude of the Nazis towards the inhabitants of Mariupol once again proves the rightness of the inhabitants of Donbass now—they see how the Kiev regime and its militants treat them. As a resource, as hostages, as residents of a foreign occupied territory, as a trophy.

And by the way, the regime is showing such an attitude not only towards Donbass, which has been bombarded with shells for eight years now. One only has to compare how in Lvov monuments are being covered to protect them from damage during possible shelling and how in Odessa, on the contrary, memorable places dear to every inhabitant are used to shelter military equipment, making them targets—a clear illustration of what the Ukrainian Nazis consider their own, “truly Aryan”, and what a mere trophy like Mariupol.

That is why the de-Nazification of the Ukraine is not an empty phrase, but an issue that is long overdue.

Posted by: S | Mar 12 2022 19:55 utc | 97

I posted this at the end of the previous thread in response to all the censorship comments.

The Archive and its Way Back Machine are the best you're likely to find, and you can use their machine to archive things they haven't yet. Click the link and see for yourself.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2022 19:59 utc | 98

The useless of this echo chamber became a bit too obvious. I ask for serious analysis and get empty set phrases. I’ll be back in a week to point out that no chem/bio false flag has been carried out.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Mar 12 2022 20:02 utc | 99

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2022 18:48 utc | 68

So, Gonzalo made it safe back home to his family! That is great and relieving news

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 12 2022 20:12 utc | 100

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