Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 12, 2022
U.S. Sends Nuclear Submarine To Harass Russia Near Japan

Since October 30 2021 the U.S. is warning of a Russian military buildup and a potential invasion of the Ukraine.

Over the last days the screaming over Russian exercises on Russian grounds has again increased. The U.S. Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense have both called their Russian counterparts. President Biden will later today call President Putin.

But if the situation is really as dire as the U.S. claims why is it doing this (machine translation)?

An American submarine entered Russian territorial waters in the Kuriles region, and special means were used against it, the Ministry of Defense said.

"On February 12, 2022, at 10:40 Moscow time, a U.S. Navy submarine of the Virginia type was discovered in the area of ​​the planned exercise of the Pacific Fleet forces in the territorial waters of the Russian Federation near Urup Island of the Kuril Ridge," the agency said.

The crew of the submarine was given a message in Russian and English via underwater communication: "You are in the territorial waters of Russia. Surface immediately!"

The foreign warship ignored the demand.

"In accordance with the guidelines for the protection of the state border of the Russian Federation in the underwater environment, the crew of the Pacific Fleet frigate Marshal Shaposhnikov used appropriate means," the message says.

The American submarine used a self-propelled simulator to double the target on radar and acoustic control means and left Russian territorial waters at maximum speed.

A detachment of ships of the Pacific Fleet continues exercises and controls the underwater environment to prevent violation of the state border.

In connection with the incident, the Defense Ministry called the military attache at the US Embassy in Moscow.

The Kuril islands are north east of Japan and part of Russia.



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During the Yalta conference on February 11 1945 U.S. President Roosevelt had conceded the Kuril islands, then completely under Japanese control, to the Soviet Union in exchange for the Soviet Union joining the war against Japan.


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In its typical non-agreement-capable manner the U.S. has since disputed the agreement and supports Japanese claims, repeated recently, on the southern islands on its side of the 1855 border. The dispute has prevented the signing of a peace treaty between Russia and Japan.

Rahm Emanuel, the very new U.S. ambassador to Japan, used the issue to piss off his Russian colleague:


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The Russian ambassador responded by doubting Emanuel's knowledge of the issue.

The U.S. will probably claim that the submarine was in Japanese waters when the Russian navy repelled it.

Russia believes that the new Japanese push on the Kuril islandw issue has been instigated by the U.S. as a part of its current general harassment of Russia. Today's submarine incident will be taken as proof of that thesis.

During the call between Biden and Putin the Russian side will certainly mention the submarine incident.

I do not expect any public results from the call. But there are without doubt some background negotiations about the demands Russia has made and which the U.S. so far has rejected.

The submarine incident could have developed way more badly. The current U.S. behavior is extremely dangerous but being dangerous may well be its intent.

Michael Tracey @mtracey – 19:14 UTC · Feb 11, 2022

Like clockwork, a new round of warnings from US media and government officials is having the effect of exacerbating rather than allaying tensions. Jake Sullivan just declared that any Americans should flee Ukraine. Everything they're doing suggests an intent to trigger war.

Comments

but you’re clueless till you’re let in the club.
Nice little ditty
Patroklos 100

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 12 2022 23:34 utc | 101

Bemildred #97

So it has occurred to me that the reason all these people are leaving E. Ukraine is because it dawned on them that are in a big kettle there, almost surrounded.

I should add, almost surrounded, with the Galicia SS Azov Battalion in charge, the independent media silenced, the opposition party jailed or intimidated, the current ally nation angling to have the entire nation reduced to ashes, zero gas flow from Russia in a few years time as the contract expires and the friendliness has evaporated.
One gets the impression that even the local farming folk might be hesitant to plant potatoes this spring.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 23:36 utc | 102

Putin, Biden did not discuss US submarine incident: Russia

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 12 2022 23:39 utc | 103

US pulling out some of its military ‘trainers’ from Ukraine?
Maybe Putin told Biden what would happen to them if he keeps up the aggravation to the point of an incursion by Kiev into the Donbas

Posted by: digital dinosaur | Feb 12 2022 23:42 utc | 104

One gets the impression that even the local farming folk might be hesitant to plant potatoes this spring.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 23:36 utc | 102
Yes. In any case, once the balloon goes up, if it does, I expect the Russians will make sure to grab some leverage. It appears the result will be what the Russians are asking for, or part of it, i.e. the NATO forces farther away. That worked pretty well a few years ago.
Must remember that speculation is fun, but not to be relied on.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 12 2022 23:47 utc | 105

Music for harried submariners as they rush for the rest rooms.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 23:47 utc | 106

I have learnt why the US sub ignored the order to leave. Evidently the Russians didn’t use the correct pronouns.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 12 2022 23:48 utc | 107

Uncle T @99
I read a few days ago Russia signed military cooperation agreements with Cuba, Nicaragua & one other Central American/Carribean state which escapes me now.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 12 2022 23:52 utc | 108

It will come as no surprise to many here to know US probing and pushing in the area in question is a maritime choke point which impacts both Russia and China. As the map in the following link indicates, this is the intended rout of the Polar Silk Road.
https://www.cryopolitics.com/2018/05/04/qingdao-china-arctic-gateway/
Interesting historical context as a bonus.
This pre WW One German colony in China [an ally] was ‘given’ to Japan at the notorious Paris ‘Peace’ Conference.
The Arab ‘allies’ were similarly betrayed at the conference in favour of the Zionists, [not belligerents]. What were they doing there? Who invited the Zionist Delegation?
There goes the neighbourhood.
Why not a Hindu or a Buddhist Delegation?

Posted by: Paul | Feb 12 2022 23:58 utc | 109

Perhaps it was mentioned to NATO–beware and remember the Debaltsevo Cauldron and why you sued for peace and Minsk-2–that prompted the rapid withdrawal of NATO forces. Russia could easily envelope that entire corner of Ukraine and capture all within, although I don’t think that’s what planned. Commentators at Martyanov’s posit the idea that given the rapidly declining state of the Outlaw’s economy and social conditions that Russia might not do anything. See my comment at open thread on inflation and such. The Empire’s dismal domestic economy is something we haven’t looked at closely as a factor to be considered. Biden has the annual State of the Union Address he must provide soon, and in reality he has no good news at all.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 13 2022 0:18 utc | 110

@uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 23:05 utc | 94
“The fact that Russia has recovered from the colonisation attempt by the USA in the 1990’s”
I’ve tried to make a related point to friends in W Europe: isn’t the rebirth or at least survival of Russia, as infuriatingly messy as it is, not a threat but rather a story of hope for ourselves? Haven’t been persuasive so far.
“I see China supports Argentina’s right to the Falkland Islands”
Making an informed guess that China will save its landing craft for Taiwan. But a shot across the bow: “back off about Hong Kong and Xinjiang, or your ramshackle empire will crumble even further.” Excellent, excellent: contesting the battle of ideas in a way Russia hardly ever manages. Craving some kind of common language with the West, they started to humor the Idlib militants as “opposition” (at least some factions). But how to explain then why you’re militarily supporting Assad over them?
The West is now on notice that unless they sober up, one day they’ll no longer be the dinner guests but the turkey. Bravo!
———————————–
@v | Feb 12 2022 22:16 utc | 80
“You don’t seem to be aware what Tulsi is doing lately, huh?”
Aren’t you a tease? Please inform us. Though given that war sceptic Howard Dean became a Mujahedin Khalq shill as soon as he could, there is little that’d surprise me–she’s a Democrat after all.
I just can’t get Colonel Cortez’s phone call in Vice City out of my head: “These terrible stories I hear, are they true? My dear daughter — is she really going to be a lawyer? Please tell me it isn’t so.” “Don’t worry Colonel, Mercedes will never be a lawyer.” (Tommy got her to do a porn flick.)

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 13 2022 0:19 utc | 111

There is no point in discussing the return of the Kurils to Japan. It will never happen, as California will never ever be returned to Mexico. Many generations of Russian have been born there. Suffice to say it is Russian lands. The older generation that used to live there are dead or dying. The young generation most certainly don’t want to live there, maybe don’t even know it exists. Secondly hypothetically, how do Russians without Japanese blood become Japanese citizens? It’s against Japanese law.

Posted by: Che Serna | Feb 13 2022 0:19 utc | 112

Bemildred 97

U.S. denied it carried out military operations in Russian territorial waters

They have their own definitions of “Russian territorial waters” and “military operations”.

Posted by: Keith McClary | Feb 13 2022 0:30 utc | 113

To those claiming that the Russians just pinged the sub, you are wrong. You don’t launch a decoy to evade being pinged. You launch a decoy to break a target lock. You launch the decoy when there is guided ordinance heading your way.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 13 2022 0:34 utc | 114

I’d like to know how Quad member India really feels about this act of complete stupidity.
US latterly and it’s Japanbot both dispute Russian ownership of it’s four little tiny islands.
Perhaps a US managed Nato/Russia scam in the west, and a similarly managed Quad/Russia scam in the East is in the wind?

Posted by: Dim sim | Feb 13 2022 0:35 utc | 115

@karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 22:48 utc | 91
“several longtime barflies and I have discussed what needs to be altered to make the Outlaw US Empire a normal nation that could be obtained via the current political system. But, you may have noticed that such discussions haven’t happened for quite sometime as it becomes ever clearer that only a rebellion to oust the criminals and their abettors will suffice.”
My take as well.
Apologies for not remembering the poster but not long ago I saw a comment here to the effect that, were one to tell a Russian peasant in 1913 that by the end of the decade they would lose a war bigger than any before in human history, there would be no Tsar and no Empire, that workers’ and peasants’ councils would be running the country and that they were chasing not only the last aristocrats out but the invading armies of every other empire on Earth, they’d have thought you possessed by some demon.
Losing Cold War 2, or World War 4, or whatever this ends up being called, may well be the undoing of the US Empire. With that much more becomes possible.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 0:39 utc | 116

Gotta’ keep that “cold war” in play at all costs. Peace just isn’t profitable enough.
Posted by: vetinLA | Feb 12 2022 17:32 utc | 4
Nailed it
Thanks b

Posted by: jo6pac | Feb 13 2022 0:49 utc | 117

@ KM 113
[US has its] own definitions of “Russian territorial waters
The US also sails in China’s occupied territorial waters, saying we don’t decide sovereignty but these islands are “contested” so we can go there. . .Hey, Hawaii’s contested. . .!

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2022 0:49 utc | 118

Ma Laoshi #111
Thank you and my guess is that the Falklands shot across the bow was a message regarding Taiwan as well as the other ‘once were’ trouble spots right now.
On the Tulsi Gabbard issue. Both she and sheep dog sanders sold out the working class for their class enemy Joe Biden. They capitulated to the ruling class, endorsed Biden, the same as the fraudSquad capitulated to the ruling class, endorsed Pelosi, the same as the demoncrats have capitulated to the ruling class, endorse oligarchs choice.
“My friend Joe Biden” as Bernie so aptly defined the ruling class tyrant of the day, has delivered zilch to the middle and working class of the USA. The demoncrats will never deliver benefit to the middle and working class of today, they will merchandise their allegiance networks within the middle and working classes to the best paying oligarchs of the day.
But if Tulsi Gabbard were to keep talking ‘bring the troops home’ then I will be pleased to listen to her words. That is as far as I would go with any traitor to the working class.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 0:54 utc | 119

Vintage Red @116–
Thanks for your reply! IMO, the only way massive structural change will occur within the USA is if its citizenry finally understands that its enemies are domestic and reside mostly in between New England and Virgina. But to gain that understanding will take the equivalent of an enormous epiphany, which is essentially saying miraculous given the current level of indoctrination and control. Lenin’s one major asset was his promise to end Russia’s involvement in the war, although the groundwork was already laid for him by the earlier February Revolution and Tsar’s abdication. That situation doesn’t yet exist, although economically things will rapidly worsen thanks to Neoliberal Parasitism. The massive asset bubble will again burst with results far worse than 2008, or even 1929 when there was actual industry. Real Inflation’s at 15+% and rapidly rising while Real Unemployment hovers @25%. Canada’s Freedom Convoy might provide change there, but it hasn’t motivated anyone south of the border. The oppositional political vacuum existing here is massive and must be filled but from where?

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 13 2022 1:01 utc | 120

William Gruff #114

To those claiming that the Russians just pinged the sub, you are wrong. You don’t launch a decoy to evade being pinged. You launch a decoy to break a target lock. You launch the decoy when there is guided ordinance heading your way.

Thank you and I would agree with that tactical response. But who tells us they did even launch the decoy or even broke the target lock? That too could be further proof that their tactic of decoy fooled no one.
They got chased off regardless of tactic. I assume this is not a rarity but more likely a standard operating routine after all the Russian Navy has been tracking the UKUSA subs for decades and has no doubt developed some reasonably sophisticated technology to sniff out their tracks and experiment with deterrent effectiveness. These are sophisticated navies almost in a permanent gaming process to detect, confuse, mock attack, amuse/affirm themselves.
China likewise has published through bloggers a vid or two of their capacity to repulse and bang noses of intruding US subs. I guess the banged nose was a few steps up from tracking, then pinging, then sonar blasting, then guiding a silent auto submersible right up to the nose and finally destroying its entire sonar system in the nose. The problem for the sub is they likely never know when they are target until it is too late.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 1:13 utc | 121

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 21:57 utc | 77

2. The sinking , or attempt to sink, a US Capital Ship, is an open act of war. If Russia wants to start a War it will want to do so at a time and a place of it’s own choosing

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 23:12 utc | 95

To sink it means war, we have never done it to Russia, and they have never done it to us.

Under the “international rules based order,” the covert entry of an armed naval vessel into RF territorial waters grants to the RF the immediate right to self defence.
The RF can act as it wishes to eliminate the threat.
During the Cold War the USSR repeatedly downed US assets entering its airspace with the Gary Powers U2 incident being one of the few that was widely reported. A significant number of American servicemen died. There was no American bluster; they took the risk and they paid the price.
The fact the US submarine exited at high speed demonstrates it was aware of the consequences of its action.

Posted by: Sushi | Feb 13 2022 1:17 utc | 122

@DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 23:12 utc | 95
Who are/is the ‘we’ that you refer to? You’re mask is slipping amigo.

Posted by: Spinworthy | Feb 13 2022 1:24 utc | 123

Believe I read that Turkey has closed the Bosporus – technical difficulties. Maximum distraction. Be long of popcorn.

Posted by: jared | Feb 13 2022 1:26 utc | 124

@ Che Serna | Feb 13 2022 0:19 utc | 112.
Good point Che, I had overlooked the Russian population there thinking it was either tiny or non existent.
17,000 people is a lot to move. Not impossible, Russia has done it many times, but difficult.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 1:28 utc | 125

karlof1 120
I sent an email to my sister the other day to explain the important of the Russian security proposal and the Russia China joint statement and also talked to her on the phone saying the world our grandchildren will grow up in will be very different to the world we and our children grew up in. She said something about being worried about Russia and China with regards to ‘human rights’.
Ten years ago virtually everyone I talked to here agreed US was the the biggest threat to world piece. Nearly ten years of full on anti Russia, anti China propaganda makes all the difference. Now all those people believe we need US to protect us from China and Russia. None have any idea of the level of government or CIA control over our media. Non have any idea of how interwoven five-eyes anglosphere is.
I remember a lot of years back seeing some doco on TV. When US took over west Germany, apparently the made the civilians attend theaters and watch film of the death camps, so they would fully understand what their country had done. How accurate or not that TV doco is doesn’t matter much, but the point is, the anglosphere will need something along those lines at some point, the sooner the better.
Something like all classified papers and other material being made fully visible to the public. The majority seem to think we are basically good but just make a few mistakes at ties. They are fully taking in by this shit that somehow we are better than the likes of Russia and China. That we in the west had a much higher standard of living through the cold war era helps greatly with this illusion.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 1:45 utc | 126

The Japanese govt lays claims only to the 4 little islands off Hokkaido. b’s map calls them the 1945 line. It’s not the rest of Kuril islands, and Japan does not claim them as the Kuriles. According to b’s info (and RT) the sub was somewhere north that line.
Here is Japan Foreign Affairs website with their view
And here’s a site with some photos.

Posted by: Dim sim | Feb 13 2022 1:46 utc | 127

@ Sushi | Feb 13 2022 1:17 utc | 122
Agreed Sushi, in law, Russia has the right to kill any foreign warship found inside it’s waters. In practise it doesn’t use this right on the grounds that destroying billions of dollars and killing dozens, perhaps hundreds of people when the warship can be “escorted” away is War, not territorial protection.
The destruction of the U2’s was different in that the Soviet Union had no aircraft capable of reaching, and “escorting” them out of Soviet airspace or down to an Airfield.
@ Spinworthy | Feb 13 2022 1:24 utc | 123
“Who are/is the ‘we’ that you refer to? You’re mask is slipping amigo.”
Explain yourself Spinworthy, you seem to be expressing some sort of smug “Gotcha” without any actual content.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 1:47 utc | 128

Sorry, bad link to Japan web site above

Posted by: Dim sim | Feb 13 2022 1:53 utc | 129

Serious US weapons that occasionally function.
$3,375 Electromagnetic Gun Declared “A Serious Weapon” During Expert Range Report. This is a rail or gauss gun.
Check out the video from the 18 minute mark :))
Good to see there yet some scope for improvement.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 1:56 utc | 130

My view on the Japan/Russia dispute is that Japan kick out all US military, sign watertight (as can be) peace treaty with Russia that includes fixing their flawed “democracy” that truly lets itself become a neutral country, and Russia lays a gas pipe from Sakhalin into Hokkaido, as it is going to do for the Chinese. Then give them back the stupid 4 rocks/islands.

Posted by: Dim sim | Feb 13 2022 2:08 utc | 131

uncle tungsten 130
Reminds me of the Germans in the late thirties building the mighty railway guns and massive battleships.
Those rail guns still need a very expensive guided projectile to hit anything with electronics that can withstand the launch, but even then, in a time of missiles, its range is extremely limited. Just another expensive gizmo to impress the natives in some third world country.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 2:13 utc | 132

@karlof1 | Feb 13 2022 1:01 utc | 120
“understanding will take the equivalent of an enormous epiphany, which is essentially saying miraculous given the current level of indoctrination and control.”
Having tried to wage “guerrilla information struggle” all my adult life I feel this all too keenly. But as in any guerrilla war, preserve your forces, keep up the fight and know that the only battle you have to win decisively is the last one.
The one observation of Lenin’s that I’ve quoted most is by far, “There are decades when nothing seems to happen, and weeks when decades happen”.
“That situation doesn’t yet exist…”
If I recall rightly the three preconditions for revolution are:
1) a crisis such that the ruling class can no longer continue ruling in the old way, often resulting in splits among them (we’re already seeing this):
2) when the people’s suffering has grown intolerable (worsening now—who knows how things will go after the bubble bursts as you write, especially after the dollar tanks);
3) there is a resulting seizure of agency and initiative by the mass of the population (we’ve seen flashes of this but nothing big or sustained enough yet).
There is the added factor of a cohesive revolutionary leadership of some kind—the rich and their state can’t control the three factors above, but have vigorously smashed every potential manifestation of this: Palmer Raids, McCarthyist repression, COINTELPRO-executions, infiltrating and breaking apart any group that shows signs of becoming such a leadership.
Can this kind of revolutionary change happen without such a leadership? Not much evidence of that in history. Can we give rise to one on the fly, perhaps turning their technology against them? Don’t know, but have to keep looking for a way. A single spark, as Mao said, but we have to keep striking sparks till one or more catch.
Assuming no nuclear annihilation soon, this will be a challenge like none we’ve faced here before.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 2:16 utc | 133

Re sinking the sub vs chasing it away. It is nuclear powered and possibly has some nuclear weapons. Who would want to blow something like that up in their own waters if they did not have to? The local fishermen might well end up catching glow in the dark fish for quite some time after that.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 2:22 utc | 134

digital dinosaur #104

US pulling out some of its military ‘trainers’ from Ukraine?
Maybe Putin told Biden what would happen to them if he keeps up the aggravation to the point of an incursion by Kiev into the Donbas

Russia has already assured belligerents that their battle control centres will be immediately decimated should any assault commence. I really doubt there will be any actual Russian forces crossing the border but more likely there could be some very accurate and noisy upheavals along the Azov trenches and headquarters everywhere throughout Ukraine on a simultaneous basis. (I imagine it would be good to destroy the nazis first).
There will be associated surprises. Like: tomorrow the Belarus training exercise completes and everyone goes home just like the Kazakhstan ploy.
Then there will be further discussions.
But I do not think there will be an actual invasion by anyone, anywhere other than in some bloggers fake posts of Russian tanks driving about sourced from old video from somewhere on the www.
Given the penchant for submarine surprises, maybe we will see some ‘dramatic sea rescue of survivors’ amidst floating debris somewhere in the black sea (or what looks like the black sea) complete with fully extended floating US or UK flag bobbing about. Headlines: Rage against the Ruskies builds etc etc.
I remain calm, as I stay with my default position: nothing will happen in Ukraine other than stupidity.
Putin could tease the Germans by offering them a fixed price NS2 gas contract at some low cost providing they fast track their ridiculous long drawn out ‘certification’. Maybe a 14 day take it or leave it offer with weekly price escalations 🙂

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 2:28 utc | 135

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 1:56 utc | 130
Yo uncle t! Wave of the future… not. What a damp squib that Gauss gun was. I had a potato-pistol when I was 8 that was more effective. I guess DARPA money disappears into all sorts of cul-de-sacs.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 13 2022 2:34 utc | 136

@ Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 2:16 utc | 133 with the cogent observations about the present and potential future
Your question about the ability for evolution in the West to occur without “progressive” leadership is a good question.
We have seen the killings and now the MSM is the fall back “social killing” system.
What I am hopeful about in this situation is the social planning example by China that is hard to hide. In the early 1970’s I was involved in future studies and public social planning at the state and global level that was then shut down in the public and moved to private Think Tanks exclusively because of what it exposed.
If China’s example of finance being a public utility and not a tool of social control like in the West were to become reality in the West, I think the emergence of a Western version of an ongoing 5-year public social planning/execution/management/evolution process is only stifled by the public will to invent such.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 13 2022 2:35 utc | 137

Dim Sim
The Kurils are beautiful.
Keep these global treasures as they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHGarqZFY1k

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 2:36 utc | 138

The problem with people like Emanuel Rahm is that they think they can bully all of the people all the time. This Anglo-Zionist behaviour has gone on for so long that they are barely self-aware. The wake call is just around the corner.

Posted by: Moses22 | Feb 13 2022 2:42 utc | 139

FUKUS wet dream…
Goading Russia to attack UKraine , hoping China would take the opportunity to recover TW.
Buy one get one free.
tWo ‘limited wars’ where cousins fighting cousins, undermining the two remaining obstacle to pax murikka.
BOnus point…
Forcing the entire world to condemn the two ‘bullies’.
From the horse mouth….
https://johnmenadue.com/strategists-admit-west-is-goading-china-into-war/

Posted by: denk | Feb 13 2022 2:46 utc | 140

Deeper thinkers then me have pointed out one big flaw with the “Russia won’t set one foot on Ukrainian territory. It will be all long range precision artillery and Airpower” thesis.
That is the presence of (Among other things) Nuclear Power Stations on Ukranian territory, some of the in the west, far beyond Kiev.
It is a possibility that in the event of serious conflict “Bad Actors” sabotage them and blame Russia.
The fallout would render huge areas of Russia and Europe uninhabitable for generations.
It is possible that there are plans for Russian special forces to sieze those stations and shut them down in the first hours of any war.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 2:47 utc | 141

@ uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 23:05 utc | 94… thanks.. i agree with you.. the music @ 106 is quite beautiful.. thanks.
@ Patroklos | Feb 12 2022 23:28 utc | 100… very nice and apropos!
@ Ma Laoshi | Feb 13 2022 0:19 utc | 111… well said, and funny at the end… thanks..
@ Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 2:22 utc | 134… hard to know what these crazies are thinking here… none of it makes sense..

Posted by: james | Feb 13 2022 2:48 utc | 142

Patroklos #136
Agreed but I guess those capacitors are mighty flash. Rail gun was developed by an Aussie lad from NSW from my recall and swallowed by US DARPA. Here is a nasty little piece from another aussie weapons designer.
I was particularly taken by the part where he tipped the misfire out onto the sand, gave it a wipe on his shirt and plonked it back into the magazine.
That is what I call idiocy.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 2:48 utc | 143

@DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 1:47 utc | 128
You typed and posted, I read what you typed. It’s a simple question.
What ‘we’ are you speaking of? It sounded inclusive, how else am I to interpret it?
Not smug just curious as to how you respond.

Posted by: Spinworthy | Feb 13 2022 2:49 utc | 144

@ Dim sim 131
Japan kick out all US military
What make you think that that is possible? US military occupation is forever, especially anywhere near China. That’s one reason the US has the Quad with puppydogs Oz and Japan, plus India, bad choice, India would not allow any US military bases.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2022 2:50 utc | 145

uncle tungsten
I should have checked your link. Thought it was something to do with the naval guns the yanks were trying to build. I’ve watched quite a few of McCollum’s videos.
Some serious old time stopping power. https://youtu.be/MDYtxxRU_cY?t=59

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 2:52 utc | 146

“We” as in the west, “they” as in Russia.
it’s basic use of the english language, kindergarden stuff.
Do try to keep up.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 2:57 utc | 147

@psychohistorian | Feb 13 2022 2:35 utc | 137
Progressive leaderships… as my moniker implies I’m an old bolshie but I’m trying to be as open minded as can be with regard to the forms this can take. The main thing is ending the US Empire and joining the rest of humanity, otherwise this perma-chaos will just go on and on. Evolution or revolution, I’ve long said that if we organize it right any violent overthrow will just be a punctuation to a revolution that’s already been won. I’m not seeing any decade-or-longer civil wars happening—the temptation for the Powers That Be to use their WMDs domestically will be too great (why they keep them way out in the middle of nowhere).
The real turning point will be when the corporate media stranglehold over people’s consciousness cracks. External factors will have a huge role in this—defeat in a war (even this “hybrid world war”) and defection of many if not most vassal states from the Empire, the collapse of the dollar as GRC, the resulting “Weimarization” of the US economy.
It’s gonna be rough but I’m thinking this will shake people awake here. And once awake, people will smell the coffee, as it were, of the Chinese alternative that you mention. Not only public finance but some form of socialism.
Public will? 75% here favor socialized healthcare run as a public utility but no way will that happen under capitalism unless we hold a gun to the billionaires’ heads (kinda a revolution already, that). Even less will the billionaires let banking become a public utility—one way or another they have to go. It’ll take a revolution just to institute the metric system here, let alone socialized healthcare or banking.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 3:12 utc | 148

@ Spinworthy.
In case you missed it, check post 147.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 3:17 utc | 149

Peter AU1 #146

ome serious old time stopping power. https://youtu.be/MDYtxxRU_cY?t=59

Thank you. I remember using an old shotty like that in younger days to put holes in wild dogs attacking cattle. They are not good on tidy holes or accuracy but useful.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 3:28 utc | 150

uncle tungsten@138
Thanks. Great capture of the place.

Posted by: Dim sim | Feb 13 2022 3:33 utc | 151

@ Vintage Red 148
once awake, people will smell the coffee
I admire your optimism but doubt that it could happen. The media is totally in charge of opinions. including the fabricated image of the military veterans which have been ‘keeping us free.’ And look at all the American flags, and how the pledge of allegiance begins every civic meeting. Now I must admit that I have few contacts with young people, perhaps there’s some independent thinking going on there.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2022 3:37 utc | 152

Maybe the US submarine had hungry sailors and was looking for bear meat to steal.
Or maybe they could not afford to stock up on enough food for the crew.
We in the west have a superior world view :/

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 3:38 utc | 153

uncle tungsten
Shoty with solids is not much good for stopping feral bulls though. I had to get a 45/70 for that. It packs a bit of a punch for in the scrub but pales compared to those old four bores. The even make a fifty cal look puny.
McCollum has a video there somewhere where he fires a single barrel four bore. He fired it right handed the fist time because as he is left handed he did not want injure that shoulder. Showed the shot in slow motion and it looks like his shoulder had just turned to jelly like poking a balloon half filled with water. He rubs his shoulder for a bit and says that wasn’t so bad and fires it again from his right shoulder.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 3:40 utc | 154

It is basic kindergarten stuff if you strip it of context.
it’s obviously an inclusive statement and the context of ‘WE and THEY’ that you refer to is not value-free, especially in this forum.
I may live in the west and be a product of western culture (whatever that is) but I don’t articulate my views of the ‘west’ in the collective ‘we’, unless I wish to reflect an alignment of perspective/worldview.
You’re not in kindergarten I presume?

Posted by: Spinworthy | Feb 13 2022 3:47 utc | 155

To clarify, 155 is in response to 147

Posted by: Spinworthy | Feb 13 2022 3:49 utc | 156

@ Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 2:16 utc | 133
“If I recall rightly the three preconditions for revolution are:
1) a crisis such that the ruling class can no longer continue ruling in the old way, often resulting in splits among them (we’re already seeing this)…”
This is quite correct; a split must occur in the ruling class for any revolution to occur. That usually also means leadership emerging from the dissident faction in the ruling class. This could be one reason the establishment was so freaked out about Trump. Of course, the revolutionary faction in the ruling class that sets the ball rolling is usually displaced by later, more radical revolutionaries, if the revolution is not aborted, but those are more likely to emerge later.
Because this fissure in the ruling class is a necessary precondition for a revolution, indeed, the first precondition, one has to watch for indications of such splits and not be too hasty in dismissing potential leaders just because their past is tainted, as it often or even usually is. We are talking about elite political classes, after all. Such persons may not be ideal, but they still might serve as catalysts to break down the wall the system has erected to block totally any discussion of certain issues, particularly imperialism, overseas military adventurism, and interventionism of all kinds. It is not even that we want these people in office; we just want them to air publicly their anti-establishment views.

Posted by: Cabe | Feb 13 2022 3:55 utc | 157

Don Bacon@145
Thanks, but I don’t think it’s impossible. Iran, Afghanistan and Vietnam are more recent success stories. US hegemony has appeared very wobbly for the last few years. Perhaps when the us$ folllows, or perhaps leads the way, why can’t Japan think about a final, and this time real peace treaty with its biggest neighbour, Russia, that finishes off its understandable paranoia and related/militarist history of the last 100 years?

Posted by: Dim sim | Feb 13 2022 3:56 utc | 158

Spinworthy
My culture is anglo. It is not Russian or Japanese or anything else. Most of are part of a nation, so I at times say we. So I will at times say we as to what this nation does even though I am not in agreement with what it is doing and because my country is so tied in to the other anglo nations even though I don’t like that, I will at times also say we as a reference to the anglosphere, as we did originate from Briton and for Australia Canada and New Zealand a direct continuance of law that runs right back to early English law unbroken. There is a slight Change with US law due to the revolution, but still, a good part of its law is based on the line of British law and the base cultures of US, Canada, Australia and NZ do derive from those early British beginnings.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 4:00 utc | 159

Don Bacon | 152
It’s a mystery:

Data indicates that 100% of Americans who belong to the lowest income group are either ‘very’ or ‘quite’ proud of their country. Why is that?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/20/poor-americans-patriotic-than-their-wealthier-counterparts

Posted by: Keith McClary | Feb 13 2022 4:22 utc | 160

@Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 4:00 utc | 159
Thank you for the good example of why context matters. In each example you explained the background/context to identifying as ‘WE’. In your case – cultural identity. I think we can all claim something of the sort, wherever we’re from.
Now let’s complicate the matter by adding even more context. In this case ‘THEY’! Suddenly ‘WE’ is not just a culturally defined whatever, it becomes many things, primarily oppositional in some way. In the case of potential war between nuclear superpowers its way beyond team sports. Add to that more context – a non-stop media/psyop/propaganda war that polarizes and creates the space for another cold war.
As DavidGood says, “kindergarden stuff.”

Posted by: Spinworthy | Feb 13 2022 4:26 utc | 161

What springs to my mind are words like “tedious” and “trivial”.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 4:29 utc | 162

Were I to add a few more words like “is” “”Spinworthy” “and”, I might be able to construct a coherent sentence you can spend several pointless paragraphs analysing.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 4:39 utc | 163

@Cabe | Feb 13 2022 3:55 utc | 157
If I read you rightly you are saying that the split in condition #1 can give rise to a revolutionary faction from within the ruling class? There I’m afraid we differ; splits are necessary and will happen but I can’t think of any such ruling class faction ever having become consciously revolutionary. Trump and his movement sure aren’t revolutionary. Individual class defectors don’t really qualify. Are you saying a whole faction of billionaires (or aristocrats in the old days) would turn revolutionary? Or even their millionaire political elites? Not seeing it.
The level of change needed to remake the US into “a normal nation” as @karlof1 wrote, playing fair (indeed, making reparations) in a multipolar world and instituting public finance, socialized healthcare and whatever else goes along with “socialism with US characteristics” will need a revolutionary leadership of some stripe. It won’t come from the billionaires and their minions but from the movement overthrowing them.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 5:03 utc | 164

This was actually a very understandable move on the part of the US. Russia has been concentrating its navy in the Black Sea, depleting its Pacific fleet for that. So, you poke the bear where it’s soft and weak in the hope that it will have to return some ships to the Pacific therefore disrupting the concentrating maneuver in Europe. The point of the sub was to be seen. The Russians probably dont know how long it was in their waters before they discovered it. That’ll spook them into reinforcing their Pacific fleet.
The obvious countermove for Russia would be to invite the Chinese and/or Iranian navy to do some “exercises” with them in the said waters.

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Feb 13 2022 5:03 utc | 165

@Don Bacon | Feb 13 2022 3:37 utc | 152
“I admire your optimism but doubt that it could happen. The media is totally in charge of opinions. including the fabricated image of the military veterans which have been ‘keeping us free.’ And look at all the American flags, and how the pledge of allegiance begins every civic meeting.”
Now it looks that way but it looked similarly in Tsarist Russia in 1913: “God Save the Tsar” and pious patriotism. What I wrote was that even the corporate media stranglehold we both know all too well won’t be able to keep its grip in the face of “External factors… defeat in a war (even this “hybrid world war”) and defection of many if not most vassal states from the Empire, the collapse of the dollar as GRC, the resulting “Weimarization” of the US economy.”
These material factors will rip the propaganda veils very quickly.
“Now I must admit that I have few contacts with young people, perhaps there’s some independent thinking going on there.”
Young people are livid. So much so the Pentagon is actually conducting war games around their demands for change. Though understanding of what it means and how to achieve it are still developing, huge numbers are interested in socialism or even identify as socialist already.
I’m sure I’m not alone here but all my life I’ve been the lone voice from left field in most social milieus. Now young people and not-so-young people are saying things as revolutionary as I ever could, and all I have to do is nod in agreement.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 5:30 utc | 166

It’s possible that Russia wants whatever military stores and troops are on board those Assault and Landing ships handy for Syria.
There’s no way to know.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 5:30 utc | 167

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 1:47 utc | 128

The destruction of the U2’s was different in that the Soviet Union had no aircraft capable of reaching, and “escorting” them out of Soviet airspace or down to an Airfield.

There were more US aircraft lost than just the two U2’s.

More than 40 U.S. aircraft were downed by Soviet forces and 200 Americans were killed during these operations. Their families were given false information by the military on the circumstances of their deaths.[7] Dmitry Volkogonov, a former Soviet and Russian general and historian, has claimed that more than 730 pilots and airmen were captured and arrested after making forced landings or having their planes shot down.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_aerial_reconnaissance_of_the_Soviet_Union
Contains links to other relevant source material.
In addition to US losses, the British also lost aircraft conducting overflights. They later switched to installing cameras in commercial airliners and had the flight move off course over an area of interest claiming bad weather or poor navigation.
One outcome of this was the shoot down of KAL 007 with the loss of all 269 souls on board.

Posted by: Sushi | Feb 13 2022 5:42 utc | 168

@162- Keith McClary
‘Data indicates that 100% of Americans who belong to the lowest income group are either ‘very’ or ‘quite’ proud of their country. Why is that?’
Perhaps the American dream is partly correct: that if you are poor you are either stupid or lazy.

Posted by: Moses | Feb 13 2022 5:42 utc | 169

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2022 3:37 utc | 152

The media is totally in charge of opinions.

As long as we believe that to be true it will be true.
Two opposing factoids:
1) The Canadian truckers strike (now in its 15th day) which came out of nowhere and has galvanized Canadian public opinion. Roughly 50% of the population support removal of authoritarian mandates.
2) The Tabbi article Justin Trudeau’s Ceauşescu Moment which describes the fall of a brutal authoritarian regieme within four days when the public abandonned their fear of the dictator and basically laughed him out of office. See
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/justin-trudeaus-ceausescu-moment

There may be no real-world comparison between a blood-soaked monster like Ceaușescu and a bumbling ball-scratcher like Joe Biden, or an honorarium-gobbling technocrat like Hillary Clinton, or a Handsome Dan investment banker like Emmanuel Macron, or an effete pseudo-intellectual like Justin Trudeau. Still, the ongoing inability of these leaders to see the math of populist uprisings absolutely recalls that infamous scene in Bucharest.

Posted by: Sushi | Feb 13 2022 6:00 utc | 170

@ Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 5:30 utc | 166 about young people
I agree and just read a posting at The Register about the cyber security head in Australia saying the their workload is now half youth focused and the kids are getting seriously radicalized quicker…..grin…wonder why?
Actually, below are my ideas why the youth are getting radicalized
1. They are not totally mentally brainwashed/compromised yet by the media and social system
2. They know in a visceral way that it is their future that is at stake.
3. They don’t fear for their life and are not yet responsible for others lives.
4. Their BS sensors are not yet clouded/compromised and they know innately that there should be a better way that what they see.
I know that one of the reasons that a contractor recently left my employ was that his son had approached me about my “radical” ideas about our world when I was holding my I SUPPORT PUBLIC BANKING sign up on the sidewalk in front of the local county court house and this guy reacted negatively when he found out….grin.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 13 2022 6:04 utc | 171

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 5:30 utc | 166

These material factors will rip the propaganda veils very quickly.

Recent history supports that assertion.
The “Arab Spring” and the associated colour revolutions were sparked by a sudden increase in wheat prices. The populace could no longer afford to feed themselves and they revolted (A US reduction in its wheat exports may have played a role).
I suspect a spike in energy costs may play a similar role in the Euro area “äwakening” to their overlord. And stagflation in the US may have similar effect on the hegemon.

Posted by: Sushi | Feb 13 2022 6:17 utc | 172

Robert 165
The point of the sub was to be seen.
>doubt
The Russians probably dont know how long it was in their waters before they discovered it.
>doubt
>That’ll spook them into reinforcing their Pacific fleet.
Very much doubt.
I’ll match your conjecture with some of my own.
The Russians initiated this “conversation” with the U$A and it’s dog on a leash, NATO.
My conjecture is this has been a (very) long time in the prep stage, and every contingency has been war “gamed” meticulously.
I doubt the Russians didn’t think, that if they moved vessels, men and the rest to Europe, the USA wouldn’t see that as an invitation to “fuck around and find out” in the Pacific.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 13 2022 6:29 utc | 173

@ Sushi | Feb 13 2022 6:00 utc | 170.
I would not be shocked to hear the over flights by Nato in the fifties and sixties lost a lot more then the two openly acknowledged U2’s.
But keep in mind, if a plane went down back then it’d a trivial loss if your America/Nato. You literally have tens of thousands of them, same for the crews.
If both sides decided to keep quiet and cover it up it’s simple.
Plane lost to Mechanical failure, went into the Sea/Lake. No survivors, happens all the time,condolences to the widow.
But the loss of a capital ship? That can’t be covered up, they cost billions and take years to build, you can’t just wheel a fresh one out. A Virginia class Sub has a crew of 134, they all have families.
Losing one is a Savage blow.
There is something particularly horrifying about death in a Sub that’s under attack.
And sinking one in peacetime, is unnecessary when you can drive it ignominiously away.
Sinking one means full on War, and everyone knows it.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 6:39 utc | 174

@174 DaveGood.
I agree. Russia needs to stand tough and respond cleverly against Western provocations of war, not start one herself.

Posted by: Moses22 | Feb 13 2022 6:49 utc | 175

Sushi,
I had not forgotten about Kal 007, or Lockerbie, or Iran Air 655.
All caused outrage and sorrow.
But the deliberate sinking of a major Naval ship is in another class.
National pride is involved. If you were not at war before you did it, you most certainly are afterwards

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 6:50 utc | 176

“Laughed out of office” is misleading when executed in a street while the executioners (his own security service wasn’t it?) film it and most of Europe (including me) watches the footage on the news within a day or two.
He got away cheap, the US shits are much worse than he ever was.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 13 2022 6:51 utc | 177

@ karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 21:39 utc | 74
Read http://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_25085/c4c18bada9649bf1015451db2068830be89728a0/
An English translation is available at http://thesaker.is/why-did-biden-call-putin/ in the comment section.
I’m fairly certain that the Russians would follow proceedures.

Posted by: Cossack | Feb 13 2022 7:22 utc | 178

The US sub was never there according to the US so if it suddenly really wasn’t there any more at all they would blame some mountain somewhere far away and decidedly outside any nation’s territory. Somewhere deep and imprecise where nothing could be found since there would be nothing to find. When commercial airliners can vanish in a puff of nothing then military submarines certainly can.
We’re not talking Kursk here. Entirely different scenario.
No sub, no survivors, no wreckage to speak of, little or no discernible radiation (unless you measured it right away deep down at the precise location where any “nothing” was and now isn’t), perhaps quite a bit of noise in the water pinpointed within Russian territory but that’s easily explained away due to the exercises and the geologic activity of the pacific ring of fire or any other bullshit, and zero chance of war unless the Russians decide they’ve had enough and wipes away the US.
The reason none of that happened is only because the Russians felt no need for it.
But who knows; maybe some US submarine will mysteriously not return to port? The US now has a well established record of being bad at navigation so it would be deemed yet another accident at some unknown location and then even more money can be spent on making new and more expensive subs.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 13 2022 7:36 utc | 179

“..I have freightloads of personal on Rahm. Most of it sexual and not suitable for this page. Just say everyone who encounters him walks away immediately and tries to wash the stink off..”
Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 12 2022 17:52 utc | 9
Any of the personal involve Bathhouse Barry O’Buma?

Posted by: tucenz | Feb 13 2022 7:37 utc | 180

Posted by: jared | Feb 13 2022 1:26 utc | 124
Yes, you are correct.
https://sputniknews.com/20220212/turkey-closes-bosphorus-strait-over-malfunctioning-cargo-ship-1092969272.html
I haven’t seen a large tanker or container ship yet this morning. Just smaller Turkish cargo ships. Don’t know if the problem still exists or not.
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:29.036/centery:41.029/zoom:13

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Feb 13 2022 8:05 utc | 181

@DaveGood
Grazie per la risposta,
Comunque il sottomarino èra in acque russe, in incognito mentre erano in corso manovre di simil guerra, pertanto una scarica di bombe di profondità e una selva di siluri, avrebbero potuto colpire gli spioni accidentalmente,
Se poi un solo sommergibile US può distruggere un intera flotta, allora è meglio che i russi se ne stiano buoni buoni.

Posted by: Alessandro Cagliostr | Feb 13 2022 8:09 utc | 182

@psychohistorian | Feb 13 2022 6:04 utc | 171
One of the biggest components of the US corporate media stranglehold on consciousness here is the idea that if you get education and work that life will generally get better and better. That hasn’t been so since the tech bubble burst a generation ago. Growing up with this, with galloping climate chaos, with endless wars, with obvious plutocratic/oligarchic rule and elections that are circuses rigged against any real challenge from the left, the corporate media’s brainwashing doesn’t have enough material ground to take hold.
The best the PTB can do is try to divert the anger of as many as possible into misanthropic directions. A small few get trapped into this, either toward fascism or random violence. I don’t want to speak for young people but from what I’ve seen far more are developing an entire culture around forming mutual aid networks, in anticipation of the “American dream” growing more and more nightmarish.
An old, old friend, a Native American who had visited Cuba, told me he heard a Cuban say that the revolution in the US wouldn’t be waged by guerrillas in the mountains but by those with a screwdriver and a working knowledge of computers (this was in the days of huge mainframes, lol). Now they would say hackers. Hackers from the same generation on whom the PTB depend for whatever shreds remain of US technological competitiveness and cyber-warfare. Quite the twist on capitalists creating their own gravediggers.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 8:27 utc | 183

@DaveGood | Feb 13 2022 6:50 utc | 176

But the deliberate sinking of a major Naval ship is in another class.

The sinking of the Kursk submarine was kind of mysterious.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2022 8:37 utc | 184

@Sushi | Feb 13 2022 6:17 utc | 172
Increasing energy costs will drive up prices generally—I’ve long wondered what it would take to shake Europe free from US domination; this makes sense as a candidate. Even if the US succeeds in spiking Nord Stream 2 and perhaps all European trade with Russia and China, what will replace Russian natural gas? US LNG at perhaps three times the cost! This appears to be waking Europeans up to what others have linked here, Michael Hudson’s excellent analysis “America’s real adversaries are its European and other allies: the U.S. aim is to keep them from trading with China and Russia”.
As to the US, my crystal ball isn’t any more clear than anyone else’s as to the details or pace of unfolding, but as the world goes off the US dollar there will come a tipping point beyond which all those trillions of dollars created since 1945 that subsidized the Military Industrial Complex and allowed the US to spend the USSR under the table will come home to roost, driving the exchange rate of the dollar through the floor. The Empire won’t be able to afford anymore its 800+ bases, thousands of nukes, dozen-plus carrier strike groups, or even maintain basic order and living standards at home. I believe this is why the PTB are in such a panic leading to this war danger—they know in terms of their (perceived) military supremacy they’re in a use-it-or-lose-it situation. I’m trying to think of a time in history in which any ruling imperial elite in a comparable situation hasn’t chosen to gamble on war rather than just quietly “losing it”.
Back to controlling narrative and consciousness, as powerful as the Mighty Wurlitzer is, its power too depends on the dollar—and when that power flickers and fails, yet another dimension of capitalism creating its own gravediggers. This time not human workers but its own currency, liquid capital itself.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 13 2022 8:54 utc | 185

@Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 13 2022 6:51 utc | 177

“Laughed out of office” is misleading when executed in a street while the executioners (his own security service wasn’t it?) film it and most of Europe (including me) watches the footage on the news within a day or two.
He got away cheap, the US shits are much worse than he ever was.

Nicolae Ceaucescu visited Norway 13. – 15. november 1980, including the head offices of my former employer (the Ministry of Truth has mostly succeeded in removing the fact from history).
And: “Ceaușescu ble i 1980 tildelt storkors av St. Olavs Orden i forbindelse med statsbesøk i Norge. Ordenen ble trukket tilbake i 1989.”
(“Ceaușescu was in 1980 awarded the Grand Cross of the order of St. Olav in connection with a state visit to Norway. The order was withdrawn in 1989.”)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_St._Olav
It is used to reward individuals for remarkable accomplishments on behalf of the country and humanity.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2022 9:03 utc | 186

@Don Bacon | Feb 13 2022 2:50 utc | 145
“India would not allow any US military bases.”
That’s just another envelope to be pushed. With LEMOA the Dark Thone got its camel’s nose into the tent; “it’s not permanent basing” but officially, neither are NATO forces in the Baltics. They are masters at incrementalism, that’s how they rolled Russia into the current Syrian quagmire as well. Several here disagree with my conclusions about the Syrian war, but I’ve followed the events themselves closely.
An Australian once told me that when Obama made his speech announcing the orcses were coming to Perth(?), it was very much part of the show that this was indeed an announcement: he hadn’t consulted any Ozzie on this beforehand. Any opinions?
——————————-
@Keith McClary | Feb 13 2022 4:22 utc | 160
“Data indicates that 100% of Americans who belong to the lowest income group are either ‘very’ or ‘quite’ proud of their country. Why is that?”
Here’s a depressing thought: maybe the better-off on average are smarter? The higher income groups also aren’t so keen on their kids “serving”, at least not in enlisted/combat roles. Hell, isn’t it always true that the poor are more religious? That’s who the show is for.
We see the copes all the time, including on this site. “Obama almost gave us a public option, if not for Ben Nelson”; “Bernie almost beat Hillary, too bad about California”; “Trump almost got MAGA, if only he’d had a better advisor than that Kushner trash”; “We almost had a social component to BBB, if Joe Manchin hadn’t killed it”. Anything, anything to cling to the delusion that Next Time Will Be Different.
The donors don’t put up with this shit. As the bad guy says in the Miami Vice reboot, “I don’t buy a service; I buy a result.” They are generous enough to keep the politicos comfortable, but it’s structured such that the latter need to constantly have their hands out. With the donor class, our great & good run for election every day, so the pain starts immediately if they don’t deliver. The funders are running circles around us, they’re smarter; in fairness, proximity to power gives them a head start.
I now see that @Moses #169 is saying something very similar.
————————————–
@denk | Feb 13 2022 2:46 utc | 140
>>https://johnmenadue.com/strategists-admit-west-is-goading-china-into-war/
Mainlanders and Taiwanese understand each other just as well as Russians and Ukies. So China should translate this already, and flood the Chinese-language internet with it. Maybe at the next occasion, I’ll tell them to muwahahah.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 13 2022 9:03 utc | 187

Mercouris reports that Xerxes Biden is pleading for an immediate phone chat with the Russian bear. My guess is that it’s a set up so he can either pull the false flag trick or claim to have arranged a last minute truce and talks.
Who can tell but it seems odd to be so insistent one day before the German chancellor skis into Moscow.
Events slipping from his evil grasp perhaps.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 9:56 utc | 188

Never Believe Anything Until It Is Officially Denied
RT: US responds to claim of submarine in Russian waters
The US Navy has denied an allegation that one of its nuclear-powered submarines violated Russia’s territorial waters amid rising geopolitical tensions between the countries. “There is no truth to the Russian claims of our operations in their territorial waters,” US Navy Captain Kyle Raines said in a statement cited by Reuters on Saturday.
However, while issuing the denial on Saturday, the US Indo-Pacific Command spokesman declined to say where US submarines were operating. “I will not comment on the precise location of our submarines, but we do fly, sail and operate safely in international waters,” Raines said.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2022 9:59 utc | 189

@uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 9:56 utc | 188
That was yesterday
Readout of President Biden’s Call with President Vladimir Putin of Russia
Russia reveals details of Biden-Putin call
The conversation came amid an atmosphere of unprecedented hysteria by US officials over Russia’s supposedly imminent ‘invasion’ of Ukraine,” Ushakov stated.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2022 10:05 utc | 190

Norwegian #186
I like your expression that the USA is so much worse than Causescu. Agreed and yet the propaganda is so thick and persistent that I would be a heretic if I should say that. A day or so ago I had a dispute with an avowed socialist who was sticking up for the filthy little Queen of the Englanders. I suggested he exit the flood of propaganda and consider Orwell. The discussion did get far. Sigh.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 10:06 utc | 191

@uncle tungsten | Feb 13 2022 10:06 utc | 191
I didn’t refer to the USA in #186, Sunny Runny Burger did in #177, but I agree the consequences of the US actions are far worse than the consequences of Ceaucescus actions.
My main point in #186 was that I agree that people like Trudeau is looking at a possible “Ceaucescu moment”, but also point to the fact that the propaganda and hypocrisy around people like Ceaucescu or Trudeau is extensive and not limited to the US. Ceaucescu was received in a state visit in Norway in 1980 and given an award for “remarkable accomplishments on behalf of the country and humanity”. That was an act of opportunism, and the same can be said of the withdrawal of the award in 1989. People like Trudeau and others should be careful not to be too impressed by their own propaganda as they are subject to similar opportunism.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2022 10:19 utc | 192

Alessandro Cagliostr 182
… wot do I say. I know a bloke once and he said baffle them with science. Not that he had to bricks to rub together inside his head but he would talk like there was. Your 182 goes up a few notches I guess.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 10:37 utc | 193

@Norwegian | Feb 13 2022 9:59 utc | 189
“Never Believe Anything Until It Is Officially Denied”
Hasn’t this been dealt with already: the US maintains its own creative interpretation of “Russian waters”, much as they did with “I did not have sex with this woman”. Biden talks unscripted like a random-number generator, but they still have pros to put out statements. If anything, their problem is a surplus of lawyers, not a shortage. Then again, during US/S Korea exercises, interpretation differences over sea boundaries most definitely got people killed.
You @ #192: I’m constantly in awe of US propaganda–better watch out I don’t develop Stockholm Syndrome. The risk is rather that they’ve overshot already, and now whole continents live in this post-modern, post-reality nightmare–including the ruling class since their childhood. But you’ll never have the same pull in Kandahar or Donetsk, where people live the reality. All these lead to the dysfunctions you also see.
Indulge me a Chinese perspective. The parents knew there was a bunch of stuff you were supposed to say, and crucially not say, to stay out of trouble with the Party. But because of this very silence, their children missed certain … nuances of the situation and grew up to be true believers, who wouldn’t hesitate to denounce their own parents once they figured out their hypocrisy. Should’ve asked the Chinese before embarking on your own Cultural Revolution.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 13 2022 10:49 utc | 194

194
What are you doing here? you use basically teacher as your username? Exceptionalism? The commenter from Norway at 192 uses his country as his user name. What the fuck are you? Strut off to someplace else with your self appointed accolades.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 11:05 utc | 195

@Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 11:05 utc | 195
Just the other day, I talked in extenso about what I was (to the extent I wanted to, or anyone might care) to it was James I think. And then to someone else about “Ma”. Because both asked me nicely. It may be another ad hominem sadly, but many Australians seem to have missed this ground rule for dealing with (faux) Chinese. It’s not self-appointed, I get called laoshi all the time–hell I get called “professor” all the time, but in honesty that’s mostly youngsters who have been properly educated to behave nicely. Take a walk outside, you’ll feel better. I’ll do the same, but in order to eat.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 13 2022 11:19 utc | 196

Ma Laoshi
Can you give me a link to what you posted previously. I don’t need a walk out side and I appreciate your up front answer.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 11:27 utc | 197

@Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 11:05 utc | 195

The commenter from Norway at 192 uses his country as his user name. What the fuck are you?

Is there a problem? Are you having a bad day?

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2022 11:30 utc | 198

One question. What do you mean by “(faux) Chinese” Faux is sa far as I know, a look alike.. looked it up and the result was my understanding “made in imitation; artificial.”
You describe yourself as an in brackets faux Chinese? That is something I do not understand. Unless I take it exactly as the words mean.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 11:34 utc | 199

Norwegian Do you really want a reply?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 13 2022 11:40 utc | 200