Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 12, 2022

U.S. Sends Nuclear Submarine To Harass Russia Near Japan

Since October 30 2021 the U.S. is warning of a Russian military buildup and a potential invasion of the Ukraine.

Over the last days the screaming over Russian exercises on Russian grounds has again increased. The U.S. Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense have both called their Russian counterparts. President Biden will later today call President Putin.

But if the situation is really as dire as the U.S. claims why is it doing this (machine translation)?

An American submarine entered Russian territorial waters in the Kuriles region, and special means were used against it, the Ministry of Defense said.

"On February 12, 2022, at 10:40 Moscow time, a U.S. Navy submarine of the Virginia type was discovered in the area of ​​the planned exercise of the Pacific Fleet forces in the territorial waters of the Russian Federation near Urup Island of the Kuril Ridge," the agency said.

The crew of the submarine was given a message in Russian and English via underwater communication: "You are in the territorial waters of Russia. Surface immediately!"

The foreign warship ignored the demand.

"In accordance with the guidelines for the protection of the state border of the Russian Federation in the underwater environment, the crew of the Pacific Fleet frigate Marshal Shaposhnikov used appropriate means," the message says.

The American submarine used a self-propelled simulator to double the target on radar and acoustic control means and left Russian territorial waters at maximum speed.

A detachment of ships of the Pacific Fleet continues exercises and controls the underwater environment to prevent violation of the state border.

In connection with the incident, the Defense Ministry called the military attache at the US Embassy in Moscow.

The Kuril islands are north east of Japan and part of Russia.


During the Yalta conference on February 11 1945 U.S. President Roosevelt had conceded the Kuril islands, then completely under Japanese control, to the Soviet Union in exchange for the Soviet Union joining the war against Japan.


In its typical non-agreement-capable manner the U.S. has since disputed the agreement and supports Japanese claims, repeated recently, on the southern islands on its side of the 1855 border. The dispute has prevented the signing of a peace treaty between Russia and Japan.

Rahm Emanuel, the very new U.S. ambassador to Japan, used the issue to piss off his Russian colleague:


The Russian ambassador responded by doubting Emanuel's knowledge of the issue.

The U.S. will probably claim that the submarine was in Japanese waters when the Russian navy repelled it.

Russia believes that the new Japanese push on the Kuril islandw issue has been instigated by the U.S. as a part of its current general harassment of Russia. Today's submarine incident will be taken as proof of that thesis.

During the call between Biden and Putin the Russian side will certainly mention the submarine incident.

I do not expect any public results from the call. But there are without doubt some background negotiations about the demands Russia has made and which the U.S. so far has rejected.

The submarine incident could have developed way more badly. The current U.S. behavior is extremely dangerous but being dangerous may well be its intent.

Michael Tracey @mtracey - 19:14 UTC · Feb 11, 2022

Like clockwork, a new round of warnings from US media and government officials is having the effect of exacerbating rather than allaying tensions. Jake Sullivan just declared that any Americans should flee Ukraine. Everything they're doing suggests an intent to trigger war.

Posted by b on February 12, 2022 at 17:20 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Uh oh.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 17:23 utc | 1

A self propelled simulator....wonder what happens when one of these and a sub have a fender bender? I'm sure all sides with a competent sub mariner force use them.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 12 2022 17:28 utc | 2

thanks b.... this is so sad for the world... a bunch of amateur jackasses running the usa.. none of them with a brain in their head or any connection to reality...

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2022 17:31 utc | 3

Gotta' keep that "cold war" in play at all costs. Peace just isn't profitable enough.

Posted by: vetinLA | Feb 12 2022 17:32 utc | 4

Were I Russia I would consider giving the Southern Kuriles back to Japan on the grounds the USA's right to hand over the territory of one country to another is dubious, even if the country losing territory had just been defeated in war.

But that would require an act of extraordinary generosity on Russia's part and weaken control and monitoring of it's own borders.

Nevertheless, I'd be quietly negotiating behind the scenes something along the lines of..

"American Armed Forces on Japanese territory are a menace to Russia, were those forces permanently expelled, you can have the islands back "

It would give Japan something to think about

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 17:41 utc | 5

Scoundrels, all of them. They love war, only if someone else fights it for them. They send the best to take a bullet in the face, and when they return, all they offer them is a loan. And these rulers of ours go back to their beautiful homes in and around the Beltway, getting ready to go to the next banquet hosted by their friends in the lobby racket, offering the best food and champagne. “We will fight ‘till the last drop of……your blood!” Moe Howard of the Three Stooges.

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Feb 12 2022 17:43 utc | 6

I hope when the provocation is carried out Russia does not shy away from responding very decisively. The way I see it the harassment would not stop until the USA is decisively cut down to size.

Posted by: Steve | Feb 12 2022 17:45 utc | 7

As I've said more than once, in order for the criminal empire to implement its plans of economic warfare, and a new codified Cold War, it absolutely requires a kinetic response from Russia. The pressure won't stop until Empire 'wins.'

RT reports the Putin/Biden call is ended.

Will the USA get its way and ruin another Olympics vis a vis Ukraine? In spite of, or because of Empire's Big Lies, and ever increasing provocation, Russia is on the defensive.

Posted by: gottlieb | Feb 12 2022 17:46 utc | 8

Rahm Emanuel is and always has been a bully. His own brother talks about that quite freely. His main accomplishment as Chicago Mayor was to piss off everybody he met and cause lots of early retirements among higher level staff that the city needs to operate. He had wanted to use the mayors office as a springboard to national office, discovered it was only a way to make everyone despise him.

There is not a particle of diplomacy in Rahm. US has always used ambassadorships as personal political payoffs. This case is pure stupidity. Everyone involved would know Rahm well enough.

I have freightloads of personal on Rahm. Most of it sexual and not suitable for this page. Just say everyone who encounters him walks away immediately and tries to wash the stink off. Lori Lightfoot was his parting gift to the City, he hoped she would be awful enough to make him look good.

Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 12 2022 17:52 utc | 9

War is coming, Ukraine will ignite a false flag.

Posted by: Enzo Tagoriano | Feb 12 2022 17:52 utc | 10

The clowns running the show in the US now are a far cry from the the cold war types. During the cold war, Americans and I think all peoples in the west were given a high standard of living to defeat the threat of communism. It was a cold calculating decision. Those that came after the colapse of the soviet union are stoked on extreme capitalism and privatization, and it is now a religion or dogma ridden ideology similar to the end days of the soviet union.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 12 2022 17:54 utc | 11

Typical behavior on both sides. For the Russians, this means only pointless complaints and lamentation. If commanders of the Pacific Fleet were absolutely certain that the US sub was in Russia's waters, after ordering the sub to surface and with the sub just ignoring the order they should have fired some warning shots from their RBU-6000s. A short grace period for the sub to comply, after which they should have sprayed the surface above the suspected sub generously with the depth charges. I'm pretty sure that's standard operating procedure, standing order. Which they probably violated in spite of themselves, letting the US score a point. It's downright embarrassing.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Feb 12 2022 18:00 utc | 12

One of the main reasons there is cntinued tension over the Kurils is that the US wants to put a missile base on them to threaten Russia. (Same Aegis type as in Europe). IF the Russians handed them to Japan there is some sort of treaty that lets the US place whatever it wants on japanese "territory".

I am mildly surprised they didn't hit a mountain on the way out.

In other news, the US is now sending four Aegis destroyers from the East coast to the Baltic, (I haven't done a Truss, this is where the Russians have key interests and ST. Petersburgh as a port) and they would be patrolling in someones water (but whose, Swedish?).

Blinken "told" Putin to deescalate - surprise? he won't.

Posted by: Stonebird | Feb 12 2022 18:05 utc | 13

I am going to speculate that while Biden and Putin probably talked about the submarine incident, Putin also reminded Biden that the US is in Syria illegally and Russia is backing Syria.

I continue to believe that this is where we will see the next serious confrontation

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 12 2022 18:08 utc | 14

"U.S. Sends Nuclear Submarine To Harass Russia Near Japan"

Give them some benefits of doubt. They are not good in navigating. Remember how they "knocked" their best of the best submarine into a sea mountain recently in South China Sea (without anyone harassing). Also they crashed their best fighter F35 onto their own carrier, etc...

What do you expect a monkey to do when it has a grenade?

Posted by: d dan | Feb 12 2022 18:10 utc | 15

What is meant by 'appropriate means' ?
Depth charges to rattle the hull?
Shells ?
Underwater torpedos?

Posted by: Iain | Feb 12 2022 18:13 utc | 16

IMHO, Russia is initiating a strategy to intensly annoy the U.S.A. rather than one of direct confrontation. The U.S. in it’s usual brass necked manner, sends in ‘ state of the art ‘ nuclear boat to see what the reaction is. It gets detected immediately, which probably upset the naval command and being the amateur he is, the Sub commander acted in an unprofessional manner by ignoring the legitimate, legal Russian responses until it became obvious that he was putting his boat, crew and most importantly, his command in jeopardy. Moscow has literally, the patience of a saint and can play this game far more effectively that Washington can. Russia knows precisely how reliable the U.S.A. is and therefore can predict what their actions will be. As can Beijing.

Posted by: Beibdnn | Feb 12 2022 18:18 utc | 17

psychohistorian | Feb 12 2022 18:08 utc | 14

Turkey is nervous. There were SIX drones over Northern Idlib earlier. One went quite far south. (average is three)

Plus one CIA flight, De Havilland Canada Dash 8-200 (N437YV, A53F59) as flight BYA449 (linked to CIA program Extraordinary Rendition Flights) took off from UAE 🇦🇪 arrived today to Hamat Air Base, Lebanon 🇱🇧 via Larnaca. - ?

Posted by: Stonebird | Feb 12 2022 18:18 utc | 18

Not much media coverage, has there been any official US denial or confirmation, even that some incident happened? I guess most media are waiting to be given the official line before covering it.

Could someone check the translation - was it the self-propelled simulator that left Russian waters?

Posted by: Keith McClary | Feb 12 2022 18:25 utc | 19

From threats of a "Sender Gleiwitz" provocation in the Ukraine to sabre rattling in the Pacific. The yankee regime has become such a fiasco, that they think they can rescue themselves by spinning the barrel making threats to Russia. The question is when will "blammo" occur and how serious will be the potentially world-ending consequences.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Feb 12 2022 18:26 utc | 20

OT but "highly likely" quite important: regarding, a site mentioned in a recent post by owner of the Vineyard of the The Hater -- anyone else not able to reach it, even through Yandex's cache?

Posted by: William Haught | Feb 12 2022 18:32 utc | 21

The American fascist regime rely on the fact that Russia act rationally and abide by international laws and regulations. US don't. So maybe just once in a very calculated move, Russia could do the opposite, use a torpedo and sink the bastards. That would well be within their right and an appropriate revenge for Kursk.

Posted by: mikhas | Feb 12 2022 18:33 utc | 22

In the last quarter of 2021, I opined that Russia had means to detect Outlaw US Empire and other nations's subs such that there wouldn't be any Boomer surprises for them, and they'd be taken out swiftly. I posit that this detection and "attack" is proof that such measures exist. I'll wager the sub's CO and crew were shocked that Russia detected them. I wonder if they were actively and repeatedly pinged even after launching the decoy. Negating the sub fleet, particularly the Boomers, would be a supreme coup crippling the Empire's nuclear triad. I wonder if Shoigu informed Wallace of the intercept during their discussions. IMO, the hysteria we're seeing is directly related to Russia's military superiority just as is Russia's calmness in its response.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 18:41 utc | 23

Intent to keep provoking the Russian bear and wait for reaction. If the bear reacts even in a minor way use its propaganda machine to create a narrative. The are still super power in making propaganda.

Posted by: Waqas | Feb 12 2022 18:44 utc | 24

Key Assumption:

For quite some time Russia, largely on its own initiative, has been preparing to use its military, to achieve legitimate political ends in Ukraine because it no longer trusts the U.S or Ukrainian officials to keep their diplomatic word.

Could two things be happening simultaneously: the U.S. purposively aggravating tensions
and Russia purposively preparing to act militarily to achieve its diplomatic goals in Europe?

More recent negative indicators:

Increased Russian embassy drawdown of its personnel in Ukraine.

More Russian troops moving to final staging areas.

The possibility that the proposed recognition of DNR/LNR to be considered by the Duma on Feb. 14 as offering a potential basis for Russia to extend security guarantees and militarily protect those considered to be Russia citizens living in separatist regions.

Posted by: Gulag | Feb 12 2022 18:46 utc | 25

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 18:41 utc | 23

I agree, a bit of a wind up from the Russian side.

Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Feb 12 2022 18:49 utc | 26

Tulsi Gabbard weighs in on the contrived crisis:

"'The military-industrial complex starts to make a ton more money than they have been in fighting Al-Qaeda or making weapons for Al-Qaeda,' Gabbard said. 'And who pays the price? The American people pay the price, the Ukrainian people pay the price, the Russian people pay the price. It undermines our own national security, but the military-industrial complex that controls so many of our politicians wins, and they run to the bank.'"

"The ex-lawmaker earlier this week said 'warmongers' have argued that the US must protect Ukraine as a democracy – all while supporting such anti-democratic actions in Kiev as shutting down critical TV stations and imprisoning an opposition party leader. On Friday, she pointed out that US leaders haven’t even made a case as to why the American people should want Ukraine to join NATO.

“'I have a hard time seeing how President Biden or anyone can say with an honest face, ‘We are defending democracy,’” Gabbard told Carlson. 'And the reason is because our own government has publicly supported these authoritarian actions by the Ukrainian president in shutting down their own political opposition … This sounds familiar to some of the things that unfortunately, we're seeing play out right here at home.'”

Again, Tulsi is 100% correct. Within her argument is another saying that Biden and the MIC are traitors. And again she denounces the arming of terrorists.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 18:55 utc | 27

Peter AU1 @ 11: Good take Peter, can't disagree. Great perception......

Posted by: vetinLA | Feb 12 2022 18:55 utc | 28

From what I see, the USA has publicly announced that a trigger supplied either by US or UK special ops or the Uki forces will start actions against Lugansk and Donbas by the Uki army either on February 15 or 16.

Posted by: Peter M | Feb 12 2022 19:04 utc | 29

Rahm Emanuel's ugly terrorist antecedents may be of interest:

Posted by: Paul | Feb 12 2022 19:30 utc | 30


Indeed two things are happening at the same time. Very similarly. US Diplomacy is trolling Putin and Lavrov, the heretofore world champion trolls of diplomacy.

Situation is not serious. Neither side will budge rhetorically and yet neither will unleash force. These are poker players endlessly bluffing not chess players. Neither fully engaged to call the other's bluff because the pot is a small idea that died 100 years ago.

This pseudo crisis too will fade into senile, manufactured self congratulations as the political world's capacity to choose a side depends solely on who maintains the bank not who holds the winning hand.

Like it or not barfleas, China still cares much much more about consumer goods and markets than alliances. This is a three sided bluff.

Phony war real war no war. No matter truly to anyone outside the tiny territory of the Ukraine.

This includes most especially the cringeworthy commentariat lusting for war in our cartoonish hearts because we are safely protected from any real consequences of our inaction by virtue of long ago capitulating to our masters. They shall survive in each corner of the earth because we choose to live and die inside these small boxes of miniature solder purchased at high cost from our masters.

Posted by: Useless meat beater | Feb 12 2022 19:33 utc | 31

According to Wikipedia, Virginia-class subs are nuclear-powered fast-attack subs incorporating the most up-to-date technologies in stealth, surveillance and intelligence gathering. That the Russians found a particular sub of that class so quickly and sent it on its way out of Russian maritime territory at max speed might say something about the sub's actual stealth capability. Perhaps a barfly might like to compare the stealth technologies of F-35 jets and Virginia-class subs with regard to how quickly these are located on other nations' radar systems.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 12 2022 19:35 utc | 32

RE: karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 18:41 utc | 23

Sounds to me like exposing your cards for all to see while playing at the poker table. It is not the first time either, as in that that drone in Belarus for starters.

Posted by: William Haught | Feb 12 2022 19:42 utc | 33

After the Black Knight got nose punched in Chinese waters, it's fairly obvious stealth subs will make great anchors.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 12 2022 19:43 utc | 34

RE: karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 18:41 utc | 23

I would let 'em be overconfident and not know my true capabilities, unless there is some hellfire good reason to do what they are doing.

Posted by: William Haught | Feb 12 2022 19:47 utc | 35

Russia asked the US to get away from its borders. The US replies "Like hell we won't", and seem to understand better than the lawyerly Russki's that actions count more than words. Russian military gave the order "surface immediately", and the yanks got away ignoring it. A demonstration "You can't make us" suits the US just fine, and keeps the war fever in the air which also matches their current objectives.

Reckless and childish, yes, but if they can make Putin channel his inner Hamlet once more, Washington will feel it was worth it.

A bit O/T but may I return to the Georgia war, since it came up in the Mercouris/Ritter/Lauria discussion. When the shooting stopped, Russia must've felt a grim satisfaction that they'd delivered a message "No means no" re: Georgia's NATO ambitions. But the US started getting more serious with sanctions, and continued training missions and exercises in Georgia as if nothing ever happened. And Russia didn't follow up, isn't that what the experts miss. There was no action to drive home to the Georgians "We can bomb you once a year; you sure you want that?" Harsh, yes, but how else do you make the Georgians listen?

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 19:49 utc | 36


The underwater capabilities of the F35 and the Virginia class are probably similar...

Posted by: Simplicius | Feb 12 2022 19:54 utc | 37

@23 by karlof1

Completely agree re "IMO, the hysteria we're seeing is directly related to Russia's military superiority just as is Russia's calmness in its response."

Russia is so far ahead of the US military in terms of technological superiority (4-5 brand new types of hypersonic missiles, 15-20 years ahead in terms of Radio-Electronic Warfare, Poseidon system, Scythe (aka Skiff) system, Burevestnik, etc.). And look at the track record: American military: have not won a single war since, well, forever:
- Korea - lost
- Vietnam - lost
- Iraq - lost, for now they are being asked to get the hell out politely, and if they don't, the next request will be accompanied by, well, harsher arguments.
- Afghanistan - well, that was not just a loss, it was a monumental fiasco (a group of peasants with rifles simply annihilated, completely dismantled the "most powerful military on earth". This joke of a military was forced to run as fast as they possible could, dropping poor collaborators from the airplanes while saving their behinds. After that I would not even call that "military" anything but a bunch of bozos, monkeys with grenades.

And this joke of a military and the joke of a country is so demented to actually threaten Russia?! Wow!

Completely agree with karlof1 that all this bombastic in the MSM and by all these dimwitted western politicos is because they know they have nothing else left other than loud words against the Russian military machine. And Putin knows that.

Posted by: RockTime | Feb 12 2022 19:56 utc | 38

I expect that Russia and China have been monitoring the movements of empire subs all along but have chosen this time to send a message that their positions are known about and, in this case, illegal and exposed to the world.

In commenting to Ma Laoshi on the Open Thread they noted that it seems strange that the British are withdrawing troops from Ukraine and I agreed it was strange unless you realize that is Putin's intent.....remove the troops.

The troops and equipment that are left are of unknown capability and "protection" so there is a small window here for military escalation before the world moves on and the Minsk agreement will be implemented.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 12 2022 19:57 utc | 39

People in large groups with cameras rolling and live streamin on multiple platforms should start camping out with at least semiautomatics on the porches and doorsteps of CEOs of merchants of death, mainscream media pundits and the like. When told to get off the porches and doorsteps, say I agree with the Bidet misadministration and NATO, hell no I will not, since I summarily reject security guarantee requests.

Posted by: William Haught | Feb 12 2022 20:01 utc | 40

Briefing of Ushakov, Putin's presidential aide, concerning the conversation Putin-Biden today. The briefing is a sound file but a transcript is forcoming as stated under the recording.

The Kurils are key to the Sea of Okhotsk, neither Russia nor China contemplate the idea of giving them back to a US colony as Japan, missile bases would appear there instantly. They were declared Soviet territory in Yalta and in spite of not signing a peace treaty Russia-Japan it is very doubtful that they'll be back to Japan any time soon, at least until the day if it ever comes that Japan recovers its sovereignty.

Posted by: Paco | Feb 12 2022 20:04 utc | 41

@Jose Garcia | Feb 12 2022 17:43 utc | 6

"They send the best to take a bullet in the face"
No if you sign on the dotted line to "serve" in the Armies of Mordor, you're not the best. You're scum who agrees to kill brown people for money, plus maybe some other goodies like getting a criminal record expunged. Like that ex-marine we talked about the other day who got caught in Venezuela at the time of the coup attempt. Conservative, military families talk a good game about parental responsibility, but if you see your child with a recruiter then you should lock 'em up in the basement until they put their head on straight.

What else is the war machine than the total sum of people for whom "it's just a job"? All this very much includes Tulsi Gabbard by the way.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 20:09 utc | 42

A self propelled simulator....wonder what happens when one of these and a sub have a fender bender? I'm sure all sides with a competent sub mariner force use them.
It is a torpedo shaped noise maker which emits a sound almost identical to the noises emitted by the host submarine, and has the same propulsion system as a torpedo.

Purpose to confuse the surface ASW ship's sonar operator and hide the actual position of the sub.

Doesn't work against a barrage of homing torpedoes. Might work against hedgehogs and similar ship fired ASW weaps...

Obviously, the sub thought itself undetected. When the underwater phone started squaking.. the jig was up... time to get out of Dodge...ASAP...

They just learned that Russian ASW is competent...



Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Feb 12 2022 20:17 utc | 43

@DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 17:41 utc | 5

"were those forces permanently expelled, you can have the islands back "
I think Lavrov said something very close to this once, though in the negative: that discussions about the Kuriles were a non-starter, as long as any Japanese territory can be militarized by the US as the latter sees fit. Translation: "Stop boring us about those shitty rocks, which are a total distraction as long as you guys don't even have sovereignty over Tokyo."

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 20:18 utc | 44

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 17:41 utc | 5

Interesting idea, Dave, but I doubt Japan would have final say in the matter.

Posted by: MikeO | Feb 12 2022 20:21 utc | 45

@ Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 20:09 utc | 42 with the slam against Tulsi Gabbard

Please present your personal perfection details before you speak against someone who might just have needed to be inside to learn how it works. What Tulsi is saying may not be perfect but an enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I wait in eager anticipation of your personal moral justification for throwing rocks at Tulsi's character.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 12 2022 20:22 utc | 46

The Kurils are key to the Sea of Okhotsk, neither Russia nor China contemplate the idea of giving them back to a US colony as Japan, missile bases would appear there instantly. They were declared Soviet territory in Yalta and in spite of not signing a peace treaty Russia-Japan it is very doubtful that they'll be back to Japan any time soon, at least until the day if it ever comes that Japan recovers its sovereignty.

Stalin and the STAVKA knew what they were doing when they insisted on ALL the Kuriles, ALL of Sakhalin, and Korea south to the 38th parallel in exchange for their entry into the war against Japan.

The Nukes did not cause the Japs to capitulate. Russian entry into the war, taking Manchuko, did.
This because Manchuko at that point in the war was Japan's industrial heart... well beyond B-29 bomber range.... The Russian attack put paid to that...


Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Feb 12 2022 20:22 utc | 47

The Russians report that the American attack submarine launched a decoy ("self-propelled simulator") and ran. Decoys are used to throw off something that is in pursuit. What was in pursuit? Torpedoes, of course.

Obvious. The Marshal Shaposhnikov launched torpedoes at the American submarine. Most probably the torpedoes were not armed, but that isn't something a submarine captain would likely bet on. They hear torpedoes approaching so they deploy a decoy and run.

Why else deploy a decoy? Certainly not to keep the surface ships from following because they can easily split up and follow two underwater signatures until they know which is which. The only point of a decoy is to throw off torpedoes.

This should provide a little satisfaction to those who think Russia's responses to date have been too weak.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 12 2022 20:22 utc | 48

Rahm Emanuel as ambassador in Japan, Mark Brzezinski as ambassador to Poland. How can these operators of the death cult be expected to operate in good faith? Short term nothing is going to happen. Long term things look awful.

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 12 2022 20:29 utc | 49

What is meant by 'appropriate means' ?
Depth charges to rattle the hull?
Shells ?
Underwater torpedos?

Depth charges of reduced power. Same as US used against Russian boat during Cuban Missile Crisis...


Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Feb 12 2022 20:29 utc | 50

@ William Gruff | Feb 12 2022 20:22 utc | 48 with the sub scenario

Sounds plausible to me and I would add that each side is trying to learn what the capabilities of the other side are and so if the decoys worked then maybe the US subs are safe from attack as longs as they have decoys...but as you said, tracking signatures from the surface of multiple ones is the method of pursuit if necessary....and then the depth charges and such.

I continue to hope the shit show ends soon so I don't feel the guilt of watching the process that is taking lives and destroying others all over the world from the comfort of my home.....

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 12 2022 20:40 utc | 51

Redux Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962

Have heard this bullsh**t now so often … lead up to the Iraq War … US/UK combo of lies and militarized propaganda in 2002/03.

Read the playbook of the Cuban Missile Crisis … Kennedy papers.

I said that there could be no quid pro quo... this was a decision that would have to be made by NATO.

However, President Kennedy ... had ordered their removal some time ago, and it was our judgment that, within a short time after this crisis was over, those missiles [Jupiters] would be gone. [stationed in Turkey]

Posted by: Oui | Feb 12 2022 20:41 utc | 52

@Scotch Bingeington | Feb 12 2022 18:00 utc | 12

So you feel that this played out below the political level, that it's the local commanders who just didn't dare? Probably makes sense given the time window, but wouldn't they risk getting disciplined? It was just last summer, when the British ship had entered the territorial waters near Crimea, that the (pro-)Russian side puffed "But the next time, we'll do something for real." Groan. Nice and well if for Russia it's about laws and stability, but for the yanks it's about balls. Also Russia should learn to listen better, and take that seriously.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 20:42 utc | 53

Jen @ 32

They are tracked full time from space. Not a perfect system, storms, rough water, heavy clouds can interfere. Only sure way to be undetected is to be below 1.5 meters or more of ice. What they watch for is the wake. How that can be seen at 200 meters below surface through ice escapes me.

Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 12 2022 20:43 utc | 54

Iain #16

To deter a submarine you lower an extremely poweful subsonic transducer to close proximity and turn on. The humans actually lose control of their bowels as the wavelength approximates the normal muscular peristaltic wave motion. You could use higher frequencies but they attenuate more in sea water.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 20:48 utc | 55

@uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 20:48 utc | 55

To deter a submarine you lower an extremely poweful subsonic transducer to close proximity and turn on. The humans actually lose control of their bowels as the wavelength approximates the normal muscular peristaltic wave motion. You could use higher frequencies but they attenuate more in sea water.

Lovely. That will teach them.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2022 20:51 utc | 56

@ MikeO | Feb 12 2022 20:21 utc | 45

There's no harm in making the offer though Mike.

Tell Japan....

"American armed Forces on Japanese soil are a menace to Russia. Permanently expel them, grant us leasing rights to our bases there, and you can have the South Kuriles, (that America gave us in the first place), back."

At the very least it'll drive a wedge between Japan and America.

It will be very clear to Japan that the continued presence of American forces is costing them territory they consider Japanese.

I'd make the offer, not in expectation it would be met, but for general mischief making principles.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 20:52 utc | 57

very par for the course for the USA, an irritant in the side of much of the world, especially the poor Global South

I am awaiting word on some new Russian and Chinese naval activities I mean war games not far off the Aleutian Islands in Alaska,

.... & after all, all that was once part of the Russian Empire, until Seward's Folly in 1867

Posted by: michaelj72 | Feb 12 2022 20:52 utc | 58

Uh oh

Alexander Mercouris on Ukraine today.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 20:52 utc | 59


Everything is a Distraction to Lie, Cheat, Sneak, Steal, then Plunder.

Posted by: IronForge | Feb 12 2022 21:00 utc | 60

@ uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 20:52 utc | 59... shield our first class skeptic of the horrors of it, lolol....

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2022 21:02 utc | 61

There probably was no firing of torpedo, Russians are not that dumb.

But I bet they annoyed tender USN ears by using active sonar liberally. Like havink Ka-27 Helix ASW helo on top of the sub, just stopping to dip its sonar and ping he sub as much as it likes. It makes points:

Everyone knows where the sub is. It kind ova defeats its whole purpose, considering they are silent hunters from the dark.

Sub crew would get annoyed hen fatigued very fast. Pings on own position are used for many things, including developing firing solution. So they keep asking, when will ping stop and splash in he watter be heard (weapon delivered).

Posted by: Abe | Feb 12 2022 21:07 utc | 62

Norwegian #56

Thank you. As the US economy is best represented by a submarine in rapid retreat, I submit Michael Hudson recent post at UNZ REVIEW.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 21:07 utc | 63

Doesn't this sort of weakness embolden the worst of the Ukies? They must think that all they need to do is to embed a token tripwire force in their Donbass offensive, Stars&Stripes and all, and it'll be like the Ark of the Covenant shielding them from Putin's wrath? Might just work.

@karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 18:55 utc | 27

"Tulsi Gabbard weighs in on the contrived crisis"
When there was a choice, Tulsi dutifully delivered her own sheep (both of them) to the pre-approved pro-war candidate. She is a Democrat; she's part of the problem.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 21:08 utc | 64

William Haught @33&35--

There're several ways the sub was detected, the most likely assumption would be seafloor stationed passive sonar detectors. If you followed Martyanov's "class" on sub detection and missile salvoes, then you'll know it's very unlikely the sub was detected by chance. As I opined last year, the Russians have discovered how to track nuclear powered subs from space, and this capability was shared with China. Do I know so for a fact? No, I opined, but it's based on lots of examination. So, did Russia expose part of their capabilities? Yes. Does the Outlaw US Empire know the specific nature of that capability? No. But this incident marks the second time in just a few months where Outlaw USN subs were detected inside the first island defense arc, and that's highly significant.

Rock Time #38--

Thanks for your reply. In Western media, there're only a few places where one can discover the truth of the balance of power situation. You may have read here my speculations that Russia acquired First Strike capabilities with its combination of hypersonics and AD systems. And then there's Putin's vow that Outlaw US Empire/NATO command centers and decision makers will be targeted wherever they might hide. Yet, in Russia's security proposals, zero threats are issued. Russia merely wants nations to abide by the treaties they've signed. If they do, then NATO must be rolled back. It's really that simple. If OSCE nations disown their security commitments, then Russia will have no choice but to convince them to comply. Again, it's that simple. All the attempts to complicate the matter equals foot-dragging that Russia refuses to tolerate. The reason the end of February is the "invasion" date is because that's when Russia will deal with the foot-dragging. But nobody here knows what Russia will do; only a select circle of Russians know. Meanwhile, Putin conducts business as usual.

William Gruff @48--

Yes, that's a logical surmise, although IMO all counter measures would be employed upon the surprise of detection since the sub's CO would have zero knowledge of how that occurred. Perhaps there were more Russian ships involved than reported, specifically one underwater the sub was unaware of. Indeed, did the sub know the Russian surface ship was as close as it was? Of course, we have no way of knowing those answers.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 21:09 utc | 65

Also, as a note: underwater ping is not some nice noise in the movies. It is high energy pulse that can be very painful to humans or ad least very distracting and fatiguing, depending on the power and distance to the source (in this case, dead close).

Posted by: Abe | Feb 12 2022 21:11 utc | 66

Ma Laoshi | 53
“So you feel that this played out below the political level, that it's the local commanders who just didn't dare?”
To be honest, I hadn’t thought about it. Good point, indeed. So, well, I’m not so sure now about what I said, also when taking into account Mr. Gruff’s observation @48.

“This should provide a little satisfaction to those who think Russia's responses to date have been too weak.”
Oh yes, it does!

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Feb 12 2022 21:11 utc | 67

A Big Ol' Western"Howdy, All y'All"

Russian media is saying that signal grenade(s?) were launched after the sub ignored the messages to leave.
These are basically flares to mark the spot for guns/depth charges.
THAT is what caused the sub to release a decoy and leave at high speed
They basically got told, "this is a Warning Shot. Next one has your name on it...."

And now, we pray ....
Blessings to All

Posted by: Lauren | Feb 12 2022 21:12 utc | 68

circumspect | 49

"Mark Brzezinski as ambassador to Poland"

Jesus Christus, that guy had OFFSPRING?? Who is now ambassador to POLAND of all places? That's tough.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Feb 12 2022 21:20 utc | 69

Ma Laoshi @64--

Tulsi and her co-sponsors were the only Congresspeople to challenge the entire arming the terrorists game when she introduced a bill to stop that from happening. Also, she's the only person to stand up and obey her oath as a military person and congressperson. Considering those that were destroyed for doing lesser deeds, she deserves respect, not pejoratives.

Few are aware of the great degree of deviance present within the D-Party that goes back to Wilson and its control by the Donors as half of the Duopoly. IMO, that's why Tulsi refused to win her Congressional seat again in 2020.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 21:25 utc | 70

@69 Scotch Bingeington - I think Zbigniew's daughter moves her mouth and makes hateful noises as a talking head on MSNBC out here in Pindostan.

Mika Brzezinski from Wikipedia

It seems there is another son, Ian, who works for Atlantic Council. The fruit doesn't fall far from its roots.

Posted by: lex talionis | Feb 12 2022 21:30 utc | 71

It must be awkward for Rahm Emanuel, an "Israel Firster" and Jew who once worked for the Israeli Army, to now speak on behalf of a Government that votes against a UN General Assembly Resolution to outlaw Glorifying Nazism.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 21:35 utc | 72

@psychohistorian | Feb 12 2022 20:22 utc | 46

What do we know best about her besides her looks: Tulsi joined both the Armies of Mordor and the Democratic Party. Neither testifies to good judgement or character. Without doing the former, no way she'd have risen to the same extent in the latter. It all looks like very standard CV padding, but war crimes should not be a finishing school and rite de passage.

"What Tulsi is saying may not be perfect but an enemy of my enemy is my friend."
She campaigned for your enemy; she did her part getting him in the White House.

I decline your request to make this personal--it's neither about me nor you. Countless chickens are dead on my behalf; I haven't been involved in the slaughter of humans. I'll leave it at that.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 21:35 utc | 73

Lauren @68--

I see nothing in Russian media to confirm your statement. This report is the most complete and says:

"The submarine, however, did not respond to the messages, and destroyer Marshal Shaposhnikov was deployed to chase it off. The Russian vessel used 'appropriate means' against the US sub, the military noted without providing any further details." [My Emphasis]

If you have a source that was provided further info by Russia's military, please share it.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 21:39 utc | 74

La domanda è; perché i russi non lo hanno affondato?

Posted by: Alessandro Cagliostr | Feb 12 2022 21:47 utc | 75

@ 46 & 73 re: Tulsi - I respect Tulsi Gabbard for going to Syria to talk to President Assad. At least someone made the effort. But, I have a few friend in Hawaii, and she isn't particularly liked there because she has been a bit of a shill for the MIC. Here is an article from Maui Time where the quote her about the adverse economic effect removing some of the military on the islands would have. But she's the best we have besides Rand Paul.

Maui Time from 2015

Her quote is about 2/3 of the way through.

It's rumored that non other than Vladimir Putin sends a secret personal submarine to fetch her every once in a while so they can make sweet love beneath the sea. At least that is what my rabid Democratic party friends tell me.

Posted by: lex talionis | Feb 12 2022 21:50 utc | 76

@ Alessandro Cagliostr

There were two reasons they didn't sink it Allessandro.

1. The Virginia class is one of the best attack subs in the world, if you didn't sink it with your very first shot it was, and is, capable of destroying every ship on the surface.

2. The sinking , or attempt to sink, a US Capital Ship, is an open act of war. If Russia wants to start a War it will want to do so at a time and a place of it's own choosing

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 21:57 utc | 77

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 21:35 utc | 73

The female version of Scott Ritter

Posted by: casual_gaze | Feb 12 2022 21:59 utc | 78

"Rahm Emanuel, the very new U.S. ambassador to Japan"

Rahm Emanuel once said "Don't let a crisis go to waste."

Seems he hasn't deviated from his predatory philosophy / dogma. A card carrying member of the Predator creed.

Posted by: bubbles | Feb 12 2022 22:01 utc | 79

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 12 2022 20:22 utc | 46

You don't seem to be aware what Tulsi is doing lately, huh? Man, she really conned a lot of folks with her anti-war stunt lmao

Posted by: v | Feb 12 2022 22:16 utc | 80

@karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 21:25 utc | 70

All the time in Congress, virtue-signaling bills are being introduced which their sponsors know have no chance of passing; it's how the game is played. But yes in her doing so, a much wider audience was informed about critical issues than this whole bar could ever reach.

So let me not be overly strident. Both you and psychohistorian seem like decent people, who support her for decent reasons. In 2015~2016, I'd have said much the same (hell, I was indeed saying it) about someone who seemed such a breath of fresh air. But after the 2016 election, more pointedly seeing their reaction to the well-deserved loss, sensible people should have concluded that the Dem Party is irredeemable, and hence should be burned to the ground. People like Gabbard, Sanders, and the identity-politics clown car (which fatally infected Sanders by the way) are being kept around to distract from this reality. A guardrail to keep everyone on the duopoly road to nowhere. Hence, part of the problem.

"Few are aware of the great degree of deviance present"
In the party of the Podesta brothers? The party of Seth Rich (well not any more but you know what I mean)? Though you are probably right that what I think I know isn't even the half of it. Ron Unz has this article where he goes over "pizzagate" step by step, as he likes to do. The publicly available material is extremely disturbing, even though it isn't conclusively clear where it all leads. That's all '16 stuff anyway, these days they're usually flaunting their perversion--the challenge is not to discern it, but to avert your eyes.

In a wider perspective, what happened to the USA as the home of "New & Improved"? As a place where it's a plus if things are disposable? Now it's nostalgia everywhere, and bailed-out institutions dragging us all down decades after their use-by date.

Goes without saying that none of this advocates for the R's; just a bit more "What you see is what you get" with them.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 22:23 utc | 81

Posted by: Useless meat beater | Feb 12 2022 19:33 utc | 31

As depressing, tedious, and banal your predicted scenario may be, it may also be the right one. Oh but how badly I want the Empire to lose a death star...

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 12 2022 22:24 utc | 82

And yet, despite all the U.S. provocations and insults Russia continues to help Biden with his inflation problem by shipping diesel fuel to the U.S.

Posted by: Gareth | Feb 12 2022 22:25 utc | 83

Tulsi Gabbard is like a radar for neoconservatives. Mention her name and it's ping ping ping...neocons detected! Pretty handy, really. They hate her because she is honorable and nothing makes them squirm quite like human decency.

Posted by: Laoshima | Feb 12 2022 22:33 utc | 84

The language has changed along with the narrative. I notice the word "imminent" is increasingly being used on a continuous repeat loop by the 'western' MSM.

"...International rules, when it comes to warfare, are crystal clear, enshrined in the United Nations Charter, which is an international treaty signed and ratified by the US government along with most other nations of the world and incorporating all the laws of war. The primary law, violation of which is described as the gravest war crime of all “because it contains within it all other war crimes.” Called a Crime Against Peace, it states that no nation may attack another except if that nation faces an “imminent threat” of attack..."

Masters of War- Bob Dylan:

Posted by: Paul | Feb 12 2022 22:33 utc | 85

d dan #15

Also they crashed their best fighter F35 onto their own carrier, etc...

Perhaps, Metallicman reports as follows:

[2] American submarine disabled and trapped undersea

Well, I guess the warning wasn’t adequate. I covered that warning HERE.

Oh, you don’t know what I am talking about? Well, I am talking about that well reported covert recovery of an F-35C that crashed in the South China Sea, don’t you know.

You all do realize that “covert” actions are NEVER “well reported” in all the media.

So here’s the cover story…

A Naval Aviator launches from a carrier and suddenly ejects. “Leaked” stories, and “leaked” photos, support the narrative that the “top secret” plane must be recovered as quickly as possible.

Which is a cover story for all those submarine rescue craft that were hurriedly steaming to the “crash zone”.

We don’t know which submarine it is, or what the damage is. My guess is that it’s a complete write-off. The Chinese gave one warning shot. And then, they play “hard ball”.

Obviously, this cannot be reported to Americans. It will have negative political ramifications.

Who knows, it could be right, and it is a good yarn anyway.
As for the f35 being their 'best' fighter, there is considerable debate about that flying milk crate.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 22:37 utc | 86

Your usual hype and war propaganda from the US deep state war crazies, itching for yet another perpetual war of chaos and destruction. I doubt the Russians will accommodate them with an Ukie invasion.

Posted by: crJohn | Feb 12 2022 22:39 utc | 87

uncle tungsten 55

To deter a submarine you lower an extremely poweful subsonic transducer to close proximity and turn on. The humans actually lose control of their bowels as the wavelength approximates the normal muscular peristaltic wave motion. You could use higher frequencies but they attenuate more in sea water.
Thank you. Laughing laughing laughing emoji. We’re that weapon deployed, I’d bet there’d be *no* reports in the US media. But the news would spread far, and across all militaries everywhere.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 12 2022 22:41 utc | 88

uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 20:48 utc | 55

The big nuclear powered Russian heavy cruisers like Peter the Great and Admiral Nakhimov (currently being renovated) have a very large sonar driven by the generous electricity supply. This enabled them to use it as a weapon exactly as you describe. The word on the street was that NATO submarines tried to stay at least 100 miles from them.

karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 21:39 utc | 74

The Marshal Shaposhnikov is a 35 year old Udaloy class ASW destroyer that has undergone serious upgrades over the past five years. It is unknown whether her sonar suite was included. The Virginias are known to be hard to find so if an Udaloy found it that must worry the USN. Perhaps more likely is the Garmoniya / Harmony network, the Russian version of SOSUS but much upgraded.

Either way it was probably not on the day's task schedule.

An alternative weapon that I have seen discussed is the anti diver grenades, not strong enough to accidentally hurt a submarine but plenty loud enough to send the necessary message.

Posted by: JohninMK | Feb 12 2022 22:44 utc | 89

@86 & 15 - This article from has the video of the crash. What a mess. $100 million dollars that could have been used to help people. Instead...


Posted by: lex talionis | Feb 12 2022 22:46 utc | 90

Ma Laoshi @81--

Thanks for your well-reasoned reply! As you probably know, I'm a historian whose area of concentration is the US Empire and everything connected to such an edifice. Long ago I learned of the perfidy of politicos, that they are never to be trusted even when you get the goods in writing and on film at the same time, although it is true that a few honest ones have existed. Why the children's tales about Washington never having lied and Honest Abe? Yes, I shared every barfly's skepticism about her as we went into the 2000 election cycle. I went as far as writing a long letter to her via her campaign that I published here about what it would take for me to support her candidacy and promised I'd also publish her reply if one was sent. I never got one, I said so, and dropped my active support.

Over the years, several longtime barflies and I have discussed what needs to be altered to make the Outlaw US Empire a normal nation that could be obtained via the current political system. But, you may have noticed that such discussions haven't happened for quite sometime as it becomes ever clearer that only a rebellion to oust the criminals and their abettors will suffice. And IMO, that's where we stand today.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2022 22:48 utc | 91

uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 22:37 utc | 86

The video of the video of the F-35C careering along the carrier deck with the pilot ejecting stage left looked about as realistic as it is possible to be, timeclocked as well.

More likely as a Chinese 'warning' was the smashed in front of the Seawolf, that had to transit back to the US on the surface. Intentional or not this was a blow to the USN.

Posted by: JohninMK | Feb 12 2022 22:55 utc | 92

@casual_gaze | Feb 12 2022 21:59 utc | 78

"The female version of Scott Ritter"
Nah, just saw him on that CN video and his looks don't do it for me... But is this even true on the substance: doing arms-control talks with the Soviet military and weapons inspections in Iraq are means of preventing war, not waging it aggressively. Of course, real humans are always flawed, most certainly Mr. Ritter.

@DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 21:57 utc | 77

"The sinking , or attempt to sink, a US Capital Ship, is an open act of war."
Is that even true if that sub refused a legal order to surface? Being born in the birthplace of Intnl. Law gives me no special insights. But beyond that, Russia has said that US military encroachment on its borders is a vital issue, which Russia is prepared to fight over. These are US attempts to chip away at that position, like sending the odd military plane or orc to Taiwan a bit to the south of this. Will you let them? Glad it's not my hand on the button.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Feb 12 2022 22:55 utc | 93

Scotch Bingeington #12

I am sure the image of a US submarine of that class being chased away like a nuisance mouse is very strong.

The fact it was publicised is yet another statement that the USA has lost maritime supremacy.

Add to that the debacle in Aghanistan - the USA created the Taliban to destroy the Russians and then they themselves were destroyed by their proxy. Hapless ignoramuses.

The fact that Russia has recovered from the colonisation attempt by the USA in the 1990's and now is their master in terms of war machinery is a powerful message to every nation.

Who's military hardware would you buy? A bash on the submarine nose, an f35 overboard, a chicken submarine likely tracked for days, 50 tomahawk missiles dumped in the sand, constant electronic disabling of Israels US supplied airforce.

Then there is 'Sultan's Choice' S400 antimissile system from the Russian manufacturers. Hypersonic missiles ring a bell?

The USA as supreme weapons maker is a soufle and they never rise twice.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 23:05 utc | 94

There are well understood procedures for dealing with an intruding sub.

Once found you make it very clear it has been found.

From then on you try to drive it to the surface, mainly by scare/harassment tactics. That almost never works, but driving it from the area is a Win.

The Country and Navy who own the sub is humiliated and the Captain demoted.

To sink it means war, we have never done it to Russia, and they have never done it to us.

Posted by: DaveGood | Feb 12 2022 23:12 utc | 95

Ma Laoshi | 81
Whoohah I like you. Someone (James?) noted in a thread you write well.

The party of Seth Rich (well not any more but you know what I mean)?
…That's all '16 stuff anyway, these days they're usually flaunting their perversion--the challenge is not to discern it, but to avert your eyes.

I guess I also agree with Karlof and psychohistorian that it’s damn rotten that Tulsi is all “we” have, and that her tepid criticisms of Empire have brought her the vitriol they have.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 12 2022 23:14 utc | 96

U.S. denied it carried out military operations in Russian territorial waters

So it has occurred to me that the reason all these people are leaving E. Ukraine is because it dawned on them that are in a big kettle there, almost surrounded.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 12 2022 23:16 utc | 97

So, let's get this straight: from what I'm reading here there are many incidents taking place on the seas, etc that are never reported in the MSM—losses of materiel, crashes, possible exchanges of fire, etc. On the other hand, we have hysterical reporting of... well, nothing but a sovereign nation perhaps moving its military around on its own soil. Whatever happens it will be 50+ years before historians have the vantage point to consider it properly. Until then we're all just talking out our asses since (and with all due respect to the internet) we know about as much as we would have in July 1914. It's like trying to pick the winner in the Melbourne Cup (Aussies will get it).

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 12 2022 23:17 utc | 98

JohninMK #92

The video of the video of the F-35C careering along the carrier deck with the pilot ejecting stage left looked about as realistic as it is possible to be, timeclocked as well.

Thank you, I have seen that leaked video and I agree it appears to add support to the official line but I am a rigid skeptic of any military report or 'leaked video'. I am also skeptical of metallicman's story line, but I find it gratifying. Perhaps proof of either story will be forever hidden unless someone can come up with an inventory check on every US submarine. Even that is a highly fraught probability.

The first few seconds of that landing f35(?) were interesting and left me intrigued as to what happened as it appeared to have caught its nose wheel in the braking cable stretched across the deck. I find the entire setting of that recording of a HP computer screen problematic. There is so much editable footage around of carrier landing crashes. The other post of the f35(?)thrashing on the sea surface within hours of the 'incident' was also odd. Time will tell.

On a bigger picture, I see China supports Argentina's right to the Falkland Islands :)) Now that is a good idea as the disUnited Kingdom needs to have a monthly apoplexy pill to keep its bowels in order.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2022 23:27 utc | 99

In the Kurils was detected a sub
I read about it in b’s online pub
There was much speculation
And wide consternation
but you’re clueless till you’re let in the club.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 12 2022 23:28 utc | 100

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