Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 25, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-17

ONLY for news & views RELATED TO UKRAINE ...

Posted by b on February 25, 2022 at 15:43 UTC | Permalink

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Posted by: Boomheist | Feb 25 2022 19:02 utc | 93

Considered only from the standpoint of risk and strategy it looks like maybe Putin should have gone into Donbass and stopped there for now, which would have been a much lessor invasion he can argue is not an invasion with a straight face

The problem is that there are 60,000 of Ukraine's best troops dug in deeply on the territory of Donetsk and Luhansk. To defeat them, Russia needs to encircle them. That is why the Pincer movement of forces going south from Chernigov, and North from Crimea to meet in the middle and cut off that force from Kiev.

I do not think it would be possible to defeat that sized army without operations on the entire territory from Kiev to Luhansk. The strategy appears to be in two parts:
1. Encircle the Ukrainian force on LDPR territory by closing the back along the Dneiper behind them.
2. Capture Kiev in order to get the Ukrainian government to surrender.

If the government surrenders, the question is whether the fanatical nazi units like Azov will surrender. They know they will be tried and executed, so I think they will dig in and fight to the death. This is not good for Mariupol.

Posted by: David Sant | Feb 25 2022 19:13 utc | 101

Posted by: David Sant | Feb 25 2022 19:04 utc | 95

Reply: Georgia had not been building up and digging in for 8 years and packed to the gills with weapons.

I specifically remember that during the lead-up to that war the Georgians had been receiving specialised training and modernisation from israeli and US trainers (

I'm not sure how many years this had been going on but I would assume at least since the first Georgia-Abkhaz war:

They would have been building up for at least 15 years intending to take back Ossetia and Abkhazia - with US and israeli material assistance.

Ukraine has a significant faction, maybe 30%, who pathologically hate Russia and some percentage of them are very likely to dig in and fight to the death.

I remember the same vocalisations about "fighting to the death" and "hatred of russians" during that same war. Thermobaric warheads don't care how much you hate the enemy.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 25 2022 19:14 utc | 102

Pressure is building to expel them from SWIFT. Digital ruble is still maybe two years away. Digital Yuan could fix sanctions.

Posted by: Eighthman | Feb 25 2022 19:18 utc | 103

Skimming the news, it becomes clearer which institutions are infiltrated and thus controlled by the Outlaw US Empire, the IOC being the latest of numerous examples. As Paco relates @77, most people are 100% ignorant of the current context about most everything except for those tiny items he relates. I'd hope the situation is different in the Global South. Roughly 12.5% of humanity resides in the Global North, which is controlled by the Outlaw US Empire, making it the genuine rump of the International Community. Anyone trying to learn the contextual background to our current crisis is being prevented by the cyber-attack on the Kremlin's website, while nothing but lies pours forth from the vast majority of English language media. As for solace, I hold to my knowledge that the paradigm is changing and there's nothing the English-speaking world can do to prevent it aside from blowing up the planet, nor can it prevent the further fallout that will occur from its lies as its NATO and EU projects implode.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 25 2022 19:18 utc | 104

Misotheist @ 89,

try bone broth instead of worshipping soybeans. you won't get emotionally triggered so much.

i am not a fascist. I'm a non-aligned human simply defining terms. I'm clarifying concepts that don't instill fear in me. So that true group analysis can take place.

peace, now, brother/sister.

Posted by: reante | Feb 25 2022 19:31 utc | 105

Misotheist @ 89,

try bone broth instead of worshipping soybeans. you won't get emotionally triggered so much.

i am not a fascist. I'm a non-aligned human simply defining terms. I'm clarifying concepts that don't instill fear in me. So that true group analysis can take place.

peace, now, brother/sister.

Posted by: reante | Feb 25 2022 19:31 utc | 105

Peace my ass, bastard 🖕

Your tricks are well-worn.

Posted by: Misotheist | Feb 25 2022 19:33 utc | 106

William Haught 47;

Generally, the call for "show me the links" is a troll looking to get the responder blocked for posting too many links...on the off chance that this is not the case with you here's a couple but, I won't do dozens and get my account blocked:

And BTW, the troll response has always been, "those aren't credible me more" or "is that all you got", to which I will reply, "get off your ass and take the time to do twenty seconds worth of research" resolving your ignorance of current events isn't my job.

Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 25 2022 18:52 utc | 88

Wow, like sorry I asked. Generally speaking I strongly prefer alt-media sources. The business ties article, well, go figure. Greedy corporatists have been making deals with China to benefit from cheap labor and gain influence for decades. It is no surprise that in 2022, a (P)resident's son might be in thick in compromising deals where the other party is now much stronger than ever expected.

The second piece sounds like a Sinophobic hit-peace full of the usual mainscream shibboleths Fox Hasbara and Fox Plunderbund are famous for.

Finally, finding anything that sounds like the true is getting ever more difficult, especially on demand through relevant search terms, if one even knows / remembers enough to even be able to find it. Yandex seems the least biased but does very poorly returning relevant results, at least in the English language. I hope things are much better for Russian-speaking Ruskies.

Just a few articles can at least get one going. Even better, web sites dedicated to the issue in question (if any).

Posted by: William Haught | Feb 25 2022 19:36 utc | 107

Posted by: Boomheist | Feb 25 2022 19:02 utc | 93

If on the other hand his play is the first move to reabsorb the Baltics as well, which has credence based on what he said in his speeches

Please, provide a link to Putin's speech where he states what you claim.

Posted by: Paco | Feb 25 2022 19:38 utc | 108

Posted by: Tiger | Feb 25 2022 16:35 utc | 15

Biden's freedom is just continuing the grift of he and his pedo dope addict son Hunter taking millions from Ukranian oligarchs every year. We are supposed to tighten our belts and potentially send our children to die while we definitely face the threat of nuclear annihilation. Look at what a few million buys. And it's not just "Joe Biden" and Hunter, it's Pelosi, John Kerry's family and others who are grifting millions. Otherwise no one would give a rat's ass about their Ukranian "democracy" and the obvious lack of freedom they tout there in 404.

Posted by: Berndt Braincell | Feb 25 2022 19:42 utc | 109

@ David Sant | Feb 25 2022 19:13 utc | 101... thanks david... good post and speculation on your part.. has teh 60,000 troops in that area been confirmed? they can't be just sitting around at this point..

Posted by: james | Feb 25 2022 19:49 utc | 110

You can't make this up: German spy chief evacuated from Ukraine!

Hard to believe, but true, apparently. The very head of the BND himself. Went to Kiev on Wednesday and was completely surprised by the Dawn of the New Multipolar Age on Thursday. With no flights anywhere, he had to be exfiltrated via roads to the Polish border. What a sucker. Surprised! By the playbook his US overlords have forced on the Russians!


Should negotiations be held in Minsk, or Warsaw, for that matter? I think Tiblisi or Belgrade would be much better, or perhaps Cyprus.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Feb 25 2022 19:50 utc | 111

It's possible that many in the Ukranian military believe that Ukronazis have no place in the governance and future of Ukraine and that Zelensky is too weak, inexperienced and incompetent to drive them out or lead without the influence of USNATO, so Putin is appealing to them specifically to step up for the good of Ukraine and ultimately Russia.

Why negotiate with Zelensky who has repeatedly proven himself untrustworthy? It is a timely, respectful request by Putin; an appeal he had to make so they understand that Russian forces will step up to do the job in a vacuum of initiative by Ukraine forces to change their leadership for the better, themselves. They should wisely use this open door before it closes indefinitely.

Notice of course how the newly-allied Banderista/U.S. distraction/propaganda machine had to sully this gracious moment with the Snake Island incident. Snake being the operative element in their calculated stunt.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 25 2022 19:59 utc | 112

Posted by: Boomheist | Feb 25 2022 19:02 utc | 93

The Kremlin site is not responding, I intended to search for the last meeting Putin-Aliev during which he unequivocally stated that he is not interested in restoring the old Soviet Union, he has done so many times, here machine translation of a simple search, the first thing that came up.

After the Soviet Union collapsed. Russia lost half the potential of its economy, almost the same number of population and territories. Restoring the USSR is pointless. Despite all these losses, Russia remains the largest country in the world and is the world's storehouse of mineral resources. This is a huge advantage for the country.

Many times, just as many as the western presstitutes affirm that recreating the USSR is his main purpose, Putin has said that it is a fool's errand. Concerning the Baltics, reintegration is not the aim, but it certainly is defending a large minority of non citizens living in what everybody takes as the non plus ultra of democracy and human rights, so perfect, pure and universal that everybody should follow that path. Hypocrisy, that's what it is, the old Lady madame of the whore house that sells herself daily to her protector and pimp the USofA.

Posted by: Paco | Feb 25 2022 20:01 utc | 113

The UK has mposed sanctions on Russian President Vladimir Putin - freezing his assets for invading Ukraine according to Bloomberg.

Russia is on record as saying they will end diplomatic relations with the US or anyone other nation that sanctions Putin.

This move will likely result in a complete rupture of diplomatic relations with the US and NATO. One more step towards direct military conflict.

Posted by: Perimetr | Feb 25 2022 20:07 utc | 114


don't be a brat.

if you claim I'm using trickery then you need to saddle-up and say what you mean rather than merely meaning what you say.

come on, now, out with it.

Posted by: reante | Feb 25 2022 20:08 utc | 115

The great Edvard Limonov has been quoted today in a few channels, he lived his infancy and youth in Kharkov, a big city that today is engulfed in the most terrible misery, war. He saw it coming, and criticized Putin for not taking the whole thing back in 2014.

One of his great poems is dedicated to Europe, I translated it to Spanish and sometimes I've thought about doing it into English but I do not have the command necessary to do it with the style that old Eddy deserves.

In any case here is a link to Limonov reading his poem, and a machine translation of the last strophe.

Europe, the old bitch is snuffling,
A Protestant cap has slipped into her ear
Her American partner will come with the morning
And invite her to the war with Iran…

Posted by: Paco | Feb 25 2022 20:23 utc | 116

@Boomheist | Feb 25 2022 19:02 utc | 93
I have the same problem with the kremlin site. Traceroute tells that the Telia switch or router in Frankfurt/Main, most prolly at the DE-CIX node (that is where NSA sits on) refuses to further the packet. Telia is a Swedish company, no idea why the fuck I am routed from Berlin to their iron which pukes packets.

Posted by: aquadraht | Feb 25 2022 20:24 utc | 117

The fewer collateral casualties there are the more Russians have to watch out for false flags, because the worst fear of allied Ukronazi/USNATO is limited civilian casualties.

The latest propaganda stunt is that Russians will kill the family of Ukraine soldiers that refuse to surrender.

Expect more of this bullshet.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 25 2022 20:40 utc | 118

David Sant @95: "...maybe 30%, who pathologically hate Russia and some percentage of them are very likely to dig in and fight to the death."

Not really. Most of those are coffee chain baristas and "social media content producers". Sure, they are fascists, but they are the "woke" sort that the Millennial generation is loaded up with. They'll get Russia "cancelled" from Twitter and call it victory. I don't think that has the Russians very concerned.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 25 2022 20:44 utc | 119

Posted by: reante | Feb 25 2022 20:08 utc | 115

I might be inclined to take clues from my veterans.

You're not one of them.

Posted by: Misotheist | Feb 25 2022 21:10 utc | 120

#BREAKING: Texas Governor Greg Abbott has been appointed to bring down the Russian electricity grid.

Seriously though: Posted by: c1ue | Feb 25 2022 17:21 utc | 40

Excellent rebuttals.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 25 2022 21:17 utc | 121

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 25 2022 20:44 utc | 119

Way to go bringin' in the culture wars! Nazis and woke baristas vs. the RF Army. Sounds like a helluva pay-per-view event.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 25 2022 21:22 utc | 122

@Reante. Your wrong. Socialism was added to appeal to the people enthralled w the new ism taking place in USSR.
It was a cynical add to garner votes. Pure political move.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Feb 25 2022 21:33 utc | 123

@ William Gruff | Feb 25 2022 20:44 utc | 119... always fun reading you william.. cheers!

@ about Texas Governor Greg Abbott has been appointed to bring down the Russian electricity grid.... is that a joke? it must be! didn't this bozo sit on top of the electricity grid fall out the past few years? okay... i think that is it..

Posted by: james | Feb 25 2022 21:36 utc | 124

Help wanted. Somebody posted a helpful list of Ukrainian politicians, nazis etc, a couple of days ago with details about their backgrounds. I'm trying to find it.

Posted by: dh | Feb 25 2022 19:04 utc | 94

RE: S | Feb 24 2022 8:57 utc | 56 [Earlier post by MoA]
"Comrades living in the Ukraine! Brothers and sisters! Be careful! But carefully, preferably using paper, start compiling the lists of local neo-Nazis.
. . .
Make the lists of local committed neo-Nazis—those who worship SS Division Galicia, Wolfsangel, and swastika."
Start with these, from Global Research, 3-8-14
. . . and approved by the U.S.
Dmytro Yarosh, Right Sector neo-Nazi commander who said “our revival begins with our Maidan,” is now second-in-command of the National Defense and Security Council (covering the military, police, courts and intelligence apparatus). (from a post on Saker: “Just an odd opinion, or maybe hypothesis that many may discount, but he will be the one that takes down the Kiev Junta. It seems only a matter of time that he will lead his army West to assure that the EU/US/NATO faction does not control Ukraine. At that point, they will mobilize their "cells" within the Western spheres to depose the neocons and their globalist vassals from power. It may be an initial hard sell, but like you mentioned he is rather likable to a great degree, especially his loyalty to his convictions. Unlike many other nationalists, he does not hide his agenda or motivation, nor does he spin lies of deception. In a way he is one of the very few that speaks "truth to power" as he sees it.”)
Andriy Parubiy, co-founder of the fascist Social National Party, which later changed its name to Svoboda. Also a member of the Fatherland Party. He is the new top commander of the National Defense and Security Council. Parubiy was co-founder of the Social National Party in 1991, an openly fascist party whose symbol, the “Wolfsangle,” was used by the SS in WWII. The SNP changed its name to Svoboda (“Freedom”) in 2004, and has tried to somewhat moderate its image while retaining its neo-Nazi core.
(see additional info below)
Arseniy Yatsenyuk new Prime Minister a powerful right-wing banker.
Ihor Tenyukh, member of neo-Nazi Svoboda party, now Minister of Defense.
Oleksandr Sych, member of neo-Nazi Svoboda, is one of three Vice Prime Ministers.
Oleg Makhnitsky, member of neo-Nazi Svoboda, now Prosecutor-General (Attorney General), and has immediately set out to indict the leaders of Crimea who do not want to live under the new order in Kiev.
neo-Nazi Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok, now one of the most powerful figures in the country. He was also a co-founder of Svoboda when it was known as the Social National Party.
While Tyahnybok sought to moderate Svoboda’s public image beginning with the name change in 2004, a speech he gave the same year showed just how paper-thin that cover was.
Speaking at memorial to a commander of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UIA) that collaborated with the Nazis and massacred tens of thousands of Poles, Jews and communists, Tyahnybok called for Ukrainians to fight the “Muscovite-Jewish mafia” which he claimed were running the country.
Tyahnybok praised the UIA and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists led by Stepan Bandera, who “fought against the Russians, Germans, Jews and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state.” (For the terms “Russians” and “Jews,” he substituted extremely derogatory slurs).
In 2005, Tyahnybok signed an open letter to Ukraine leaders denouncing the “criminal activities” of “organized Jewry” who, he claimed, wanted to commit “genocide” against Ukrainian people.
Igor Kolomoyskyi (various spellings) is a multi-billionaire Israeli-Ukrainian oligarch with mafia ties who uses armed thugs to take over other people’s businesses that he wants to own.
Kolomyski has used Privat's "quasi-military forces" to enforce hostile takeovers of companies, sending a team of "hired rowdies armed with baseball bats, iron bars, gas and rubber bullet pistols and chainsaws" to forcibly take over a Kremenchuk steel plant in 2006,[22] and has used "a mix of phony court orders (often involving corrupt judges and/or registrars) and strong-arm tactics" to replace directors on the boards of companies he purchases stakes in.[23] Kolomyski was criticized by Mr Justice Mann in a court case in London involving an attempted hostile takeover of an oil company, with the judge stating that Kolomyski had "a reputation of having sought to take control of a company at gunpoint in Ukraine" and that there were "strong grounds for doubting the honesty of Mr Kolomoisky". (wikipedia)
Amidst the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine, acting President Oleksandr Turchynov appointed Kolomoyskyi governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast. He has spent several million dollars raising and equipping an anti-Russian battalion (Dnipro Battalion) to attack and kill the Russian-speaking populations in eastern Ukraine.
Russia is asking for Kolomoyskyi to be put on Interpol's wanted list.[32] On 2 July 2014 a Russian District Court authorized his arrest in absentia for "organizing the killing of civilians."
“In July, with the ethnic cleansing in Donbass raging full force, a guest on the West's Hromadske TV Channel (a channel whose audience mushroomed after the Obama coup), an unknown 'journalist', Bogdan Butkevich, was interviewed, and said, "Donbass must be exploited as a [gas-producing] resource, which it is. ... Donbass ... is severely overpopulated with people nobody has any use for, ... approximately 4 million inhabitants, at least 1.5 million of which are superfluous. ... There is a certain category of people that must be exterminated."
Hromadske TV in 2013, during the lead-up to the coup, received eight percent of its funding from Soros's International Renaissance Foundation, 16 percent from the U.S. Embassy (which appointed the new Government in February 2014), 31 percent from the Netherlands Embassy, and 44 percent from "Individuals," who are Ukraine's oligarchs, including the gas baron Ihor Kolomoysky. The U.S. regime installed Kolomoysky in 2014 as a regional Governor, and he co-masterminded the extermination program against ethnic Russians, starting with the massacre of regime-opponents at the Trade Unions Building in Odessa, which began the extermination program.
Kolomoysky owns fracking rights to more of Ukraine's gas than any other person, via his Burisma Holdings, to which he appointed as a board member in 2014 Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden. Potentially, the Biden family could become billionaires from this, but the residents in Donbass would need to be cleared out first. Kolomoysky also owns Privat Bank, which holds the bank account for Hromadske TV. So: in a sense, saying that at least 1.5 million Donbass residents should be "exterminated" is promoting among the Ukrainian public the business plan of Kolomoysky and his friends.”
Have fun, and be sure to thank Global Research for their quick and thorough ID'ing of the US-approved Nazi leadership of Ukraine!

Posted by: AntiSpin | Feb 24 2022 16:41 utc | 213

Posted by: Atown | Feb 25 2022 21:49 utc | 125

Posted by: james | Feb 25 2022 21:36 utc | 124

Yeah lol it was a joke. I was a victim of the grid failure. :-(

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 25 2022 21:57 utc | 126

Perimetr @ 114 re personal sanctions to be placed on Putin

The Russians should respond by issuing arrest warrants for war crimes against: George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Obama, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Tony Blair etc etc plus their cabinet members and the various senior US and other Western officials and politicians who were all complicit in the completely illegal invasion and destruction of Iraq (as well as Libya and Syria).

Posted by: thermobarbaric | Feb 25 2022 22:05 utc | 127

Those pulling the levers imagine they always know the outcome. There are many unintended outcomes and consequences for the world and for individual countries. Here's an unintended consequence for the world:

More food scarcity and more inflation. More examples later.

Posted by: Paul | Feb 25 2022 22:09 utc | 128

Tannenhouser at 123,

Appreciate the argument but you know not of what you speak. NSDAP had two mortal enemies in the Old Testament Capitalism that would become Global Fascism and the Marxism -ism to which you referred.

NSDAP hated Marxism with a passion and the feeling was mutual.

For your information, my brother, there are two distinct and opposing forms of Socialism: International Socialism (Marxism) and National Socialism.

The reason NS regards itself as the "true Left," as opposed to the Marxist 'Left,' is because NS sees Left 'egalitarianism' as only being possible at the national level; internationalist Leftism, on the other hand, is hypercentralized, imperial government that must force a multicultural tyranny onto whole continents of diverse peoples, and beyond.

Go and read the party platform of NSDAP, and you will see that its ideology is essentially Left-libertarian/conservative.

Posted by: reante | Feb 25 2022 22:20 utc | 129

@librul | Feb 25 2022 16:52 utc | 28

Is it coming? NATO
Is it going? OTAN

OTAN en emporte le vent

(From François Villon’s poem:

Princes à mort sont destinez,
Et tous autres qui sont vivans :
Si sont courciez ou attinez,
Autant en emporte ly vens.

Even princes are mortal
Just like the rest of the living,
Whether they suffer or quarrel,
Gone with the wind.)

Posted by: Leuk | Feb 25 2022 22:32 utc | 130

@reante | Feb 25 2022 22:20 utc | 129
That is disgusting Nazi propaganda. Tannenhouser seems to be either a better disguised Nazi or just another "anti-totalitarian" idiot.

I read the "party platform of NSDAP", the one and only proclaimed by Hitler in 1920. It is primitive petty bourgeois and antisemitic rant. It had 25 paragraphs. The first 3 comprised of uniting Grossdeutschland, the next, up to 8, were hateful antisemitism. Following were some economic paragraphs following the ideology of Gottfried Feder, then some shit about german mothers. In 23 again Jew hatred, spare the rest. Look it up in history books, even Wikipedia should suffice for your limited intellect. Socialism, my ass.

Posted by: aquadraht | Feb 25 2022 22:41 utc | 131

@125 Thanks Atown....and Antispin. I'm trying to figure out who will get Zelensky's job.

Posted by: dh | Feb 25 2022 22:49 utc | 132

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 25 2022 23:00 utc | 133

I find the discussion about fascism/socialism lacking in understanding the complexity of political alliances and motivation. This is particularly significant just now because as I see it we are reliving the 1930s with the same contradictions.

1. There are always forces of nationalism/tribalism which can be triggered whenever there is insecurity either economically or politically.

2. There is always a potential for anti-government hostility, often unpredictable and not always rational. This will always be increased when there are insecurities or economic uncertainty. This works in opposition to 1 above BUT when circumstances are right populists/demagogues can capture the groups most affected by nationalism. This becomes a breeding ground for Nationalism/fascism

3. Serious long term economic inequality will give rise to movements for a fairer society, which resemble socialism or even communism. Where there is a very large working/peasant class with high levels of social cohesion, this socialist sentiment will thrive. Generally this spirit will be led by an educated elite, rather than by a demagogue. However there is always overlap between the groups most affected by 1 or 2 (or both) above. Moreover populists/demagogues can also harness this spirit and work in tandem with 1 and 2 above.

All parties seeking to gain popular support will present a mix of these three strands of emotion/thought. Hence national socialists tried to incorporate those who sought more equality into the nationalist groupings. Of course once in power that nationalist side will dominate as new power elites form and calls for equality are drowned, while in places where more collectivist ideas flourished the forces of nationalism as well and emergence of new power elites slowly transformed new states into versions of the one they replaced.

Posted by: watcher | Feb 25 2022 23:12 utc | 134
Any thoughts on this?

Posted by: Ann Miller | Feb 25 2022 23:28 utc | 135

@125 Thanks Atown....and Antispin. I'm trying to figure out who will get Zelensky's job.

Posted by: dh | Feb 25 2022 22:49 utc | 132

You're welcome. Please do notice that the list of individuals was compiled in early 2014. It is a list of the very first nazi individuals appointed to posts in the new government, and there probably has been a considerable number of changes since then.

Just one more thing -- an interesting fact; there was a considerable number of fist-fights among the initial members and officials of the new government, many of them caught on video. Don't know how many might still be available -- I might (or might not) have some of them on file. If anyone is curious enough to ask, I'll look for them.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Feb 25 2022 23:32 utc | 136

@watcher | Feb 25 2022 23:12 utc | 134
You miserably miss the point.
Socialism, in particular the international working class movement, mainly marxist/social democrat, partially anarchist as well, emerged in the 19th century and spanned over the whole planet, arousing oppressed workers no less than peoples under the yoke and terror of colonialism. It gave a perspective to the desperate, and though to some extent failed and fizzled, remains a lasting achievement in the struggle for emancipation and human rights.

Fascism is an abomination which partially disguised and mocked socialist ideas to seduce people into a petty, selfish and primitive ideology, inciting to hatred, pogrome, and mass murder.

You could as well praise the Banderites for their "socialism" for illiterate Galician peasants with moskalyaku na gilyaku etc., chants repeated on Maidan, originally not only asking for Russians (Moskals) on the tree, but it was a triad: hand Russians, drown Poles (Poles into the San), stab Jews (Jevrey na nozy). Great socialism. Get lost.

Posted by: aquadraht | Feb 25 2022 23:43 utc | 137

Žižek lost his mojo years ago if he ever had it. He's only interesting to woke leftist, who never read Marx.
He is basically Bernie Sanders of philosophy.
He wants the West to castrate Russia? How very noble of him.

Posted by: Tito | Feb 26 2022 0:08 utc | 138

Also FWIW: ~60 min audio conversation between Yasha Levine and his wife, both of whom - I believe - are immigrants (as children) whose parent fled Soviet Ukraine and who have spent time there.

It's an analysis of Putin's speech in the beginnings of the operations.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 26 2022 0:13 utc | 140

Has anyone posted this Blumenthal interview with an American in Donetsk?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 26 2022 0:16 utc | 141

Many got the invasion wrong, one can only speculate why it happened. It wasn't the original plan, the decision to go in was taken after two events that occurred only days before the troops were ordered to move in.

It’s likely Putin told Biden about his decision to recognise the two breakaway Republics, they talked by phone before the signing, Biden agreed it would not be a big deal, there will be no new sanctions, as Biden said after the talk ‘a small incursion’s OK, if however a single Russian soldier steps on the Ukrainian soil there will be massive package of sanctions inclusive of the N-2 cancellation (or words to that effect). Many were puzzled what Biden meant by the ‘small incursion’, criticised Biden for it.
When the recognition of the two Republics was signed, all hell broke loose, the Americans announced a massive package of sanctions, the German Chancellor voluntarily abandoned the new gas pipeline, the American vassals began competing with each other which can hurt Russia most.

This must have pi$$ed Putin, he thought he had a deal, no new sanctions after the signing of the recognition papers. Why the American side changed their mind is hard to tell, the deal may have been a trap, or Biden forgot, in either case Putin felt cheated, Russia was going to be punished severely for something that wasn’t that important, which, in fact, it wasn’t.

The more significant event was Zelensky announcing (on Feb 20) that Ukraine would consider developing a nuclear deterrent, both the Americans as well as Britain as the two Western nuclear powers kept quiet, no reprimand, no nothing, which must have signalled to Putin a tacit approval.

For Ukraine to possess military nukes was something to which every Russian leader would say ‘over my dead body and those of the rest of Russia’, from the Ukrainian border to Moscow is just over 300 miles, a medium range missile travelling at 5miles/sec would cover the distance before anyone at the Kremlin would be able to pick up the phone with the message ‘a missile’s coming’.

This nuke idea by Ze was a threat too far, it was more than a red line, it was a menace that would imperil the existence of Russia herself, it had to be stopped whatever the consequences.

Hence the order to attack.

Posted by: Baron | Feb 26 2022 0:17 utc | 142

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 25 2022 18:47 utc | 84

Well, if the reality of the world is not fair or right, shouldn't we work to correct that unfairness and wrongness?

Sure, but only if Russians, Chinese, Iranians or other such untermenschen can be blamed for it. When our noble Seppo brethren or their Euro or Australian muppets are about their work, it is of course preferable to maintain an intense interest in natural phenomena such as crickets and squirrels.

Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Feb 26 2022 0:28 utc | 143

@Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 26 2022 0:13 utc | 140
Calling Levine's rant an analysis is like calling pus perfume. Btw it is behind a paywall, no sane person would pay for such brainless crap. If he were still able to, he should do better with his wife than ranting over bad Putin.

To say so much, I disagree with some of Putin's points, his anticommunism in particular, but in general, he is not wrong. Mind that the objections against Lenin's Ukraine policy have been raised, among others, by Rosa Luxemburg, who criticized a kneefall before petty bourgouis nationalists and intellectuals. And maybe the nationality politics were flawed. They still worked for some time. I think that Putin hits the spot when he criticized Stalin's dishonesty of implementing a rigid central state while upholding the illusion of minorities' autonomy. When the pressure of Stalinist rule subsided, it allowed nationalist sentiments and greed of local elites to emerge. Putin described that quite correctly.

Levine is not worth to pay the paywall.

Posted by: aquadraht | Feb 26 2022 0:32 utc | 144

@reante, 63:

Re: your question about Nazis

OK, there's a lot of history behind this, but basically the people who "made Maidan happen" in the Ukraine are genuine, unrepentant Nazis--not "neo-Nazis," but people whose ancestors were once Nazis, and who remained Nazis, and now their kids are Nazis, and they espouse outright Nazi dogma.

Just after the 2014 coup happened, an awful lot of people pricked up when they started seeing the photos coming out Ukraine because the flags that were flying and patches that were being worn were straight out of WWII-era Nazism. At this time, however, the US government insisted that no, they were just dedicated rural patriots of Ukraine.

I'm not sure why this link is breaking the posting section, but it is. You'll have to insert forward slashes in the blank spaces, there, for it to work. "Rural patriots of Ukraine": blogs ukrainealert understanding-contemporary-ukraine

But very quickly, these groups--largely made up of Galicians, now Ukrainians, formerly Ruthenians, an ethnic group that was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and which at various times were part of Poland, Hungary, and Austria--started making statements to the press and, for people who were paying attention, it was pretty clear what ideology these people adhered to. For one thing, one of their very first acts in Parliament was to eliminate a law protecting the right of every Ukrainian to speak their mother tongue and for all languages in Ukraine to be formally given equal status. Other laws being discussed were things like banning all Russians from service in the government, banning Russian from being spoken in public, and so forth.

The US, however, was in denial about it, partly because the US, Australian, and Canadian governments, at this current time, have a lot of Ukrainians in them whose families were brought over by the CIA at the end of WWII.

These were, indeed, ex-Nazis the CIA had recruited for something it called Operation">">Operation Gladio (among other things), where the CIA set up networks of agents in western European countries and--if possible--behind Soviet borders. Clearly, these ex-Nazis were perfect for conducting sabotage, surveillance, and information-gathering within the Soviet Union. Other groups in the Gladio program were Italian and French fascists, used to break the support for Communist groups in those countries. The Italian groups did it by orchestrating false-flag assassinations and bombings (using weapons and materiel provided by the CIA) that they kept up from the 50s until well into the 80s, and probably still would be except that a government investigation in the 90s exposed them.

Now, what a lot of people don't realize is that the US has never, itself had much of an intelligence network in eastern Europe / Russia. Instead, the CIA and US Military Intelligence got all of their information from the Gehlen Organization, which was run by Reinhard Gehlen--the former top intelligence officer for, you guessed it: the Third Reich. So by the end of WWII, partly as a favor to Gehlen & partly because the CIA thought these people might be useful, they smuggled a whole lot of Nazis out of Europe and into the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

These Ukrainian Nazis, not being very numerous, would seek one another out and build communities where they would organize youth and cultural groups which celebrated their Galician Ukrainian heritage while teaching their kids the whole Nazi ideology without letting them know it was called Nazism--they called it "Banderism", after Stepan Bandera, the leader who led all of them in hundreds of thousands of Jews, Poles, Russians, "collaborators," and so forth--and ultimate to join the Nazis and the SS as full-team players, murdering more Jews and Slavs, burning people in their homes and farmhouses, and all of that.

All of this is well-established history, now, and nobody who knows anything about the history of that time period disputes it--it's just the Corporate Media and most Universities prefer not to mention any of it.

Anyhow, after a couple of years went by Russian media, in particular, kept hammering away on the fact that Ukraine was being run by genuine Nazis, as well as left-leaning media outlets in the west. Yet while corporate media was slow to come around, even the hard-core media outlets closely linked to the US government were occasionally forced to admit what was really going on. Eventually, the US Dept of State and Pentagon even wound up inviting a leading founder of not one, but two Nazi splinter groups to address the US public.

Even so, and even with such monumentally stupid mistakes, the US's core foreign policy functionaries remained unable to admit what was pretty much obvious to everyone else, by now. Of course, the Corporate Media did everything it could to cover for them, even if it made them (and Blinken) look cravenly stupid.

Also, police groups in the US were well aware of what was going on, did make it a bit harder for the Corporate Media to do its usual brainwashing, but they have come up with some very creative ways to sell their story.

Steve Bandera, a journalist and Canadian citizen, has steadfastly maintained for years that his grandfather, and the Ukrainian nationalist movement in general, are innocent of perpetrating war crimes against Jews.

TL,DR: The people who now run Ukraine worship the memory of Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera, who was rescued by the CIA from Nuremberg because he was a convenient tool for them. Meanwhile, the Galician/Ukrainian/Ruthenian diaspora--who now form the core of our foreign policy elite in Eastern Europea--are in total denial about what a monster the guy was, and doubly so about their own ancestors, and how they "earned" the privilege of being relocated to the US/Canada/Australia.

So by the end of WWII, partly as a favor to Gehlen & partly because the CIA thought these people might be useful, they smuggled a whole lot of Nazis out of Europe and into the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand in a program called "Operation Paperclip."

The Ukrainian Nazis who got smuggled out, not being very a very large group, would seek one another out and build communities where they would organize youth and cultural groups which "celebrated" their Galician Ukrainian heritage while teaching their kids the whole Nazi ideology without letting them know that it was called "Nazism."

Instead, they called it "Banderism", after Stepan Bandera, the leader who led all of them in murdering hundreds of thousands of Jews, Poles, Russians, "collaborators," and so forth--and ultimately to join the Nazis and the SS as full-team players, murdering more Jews and Slavs, burning people in their homes and farmhouses, and all of that. This explains a lot why the people leading these policy blunders in Ukraine (who come from Ukrainian families) are in such abject denial about the true nature of the people they're supporting.

All of this is well-established history, now, and nobody who knows anything about the history of that time period disputes it--it's just the Corporate Media and most Universities prefer not to mention any of it, though some corporate European outlets are a bit more forthright about it.

Anyhow, after a couple of years went by Russian media, in particular, kept hammering away on the fact that Ukraine was being run by genuine Nazis, as well as left-leaning media outlets in the west.

Yet while corporate media was slow to come around, even the hard-core media outlets closely linked to the US government were occasionally forced to admit what was really going on. Like this one and this one, which are two of the worst-among-the-worst for broadcasting propaganda.

Eventually, the US Dept of State and Pentagon even wound up inviting a leading founder of not one, but two Nazi splinter groups to address the US public on behalf of Ukraine. Yet even with such unfathomably stupid mistakes, the US's core foreign policy functionaries remained unable to admit what was pretty much obvious to everyone else, by now--or they cynically ran smoke-screens because...that's what they get paid to do. More often than not it was #Russiagate nonsense they'd fall back on, as you see in that last link, there.

Of course, the Corporate Media did everything it could to cover for them, even if it made them (and Blinken) look cravenly stupid--despite the fact that police groups (i.e.: the FBI) in the US were well aware of what was going on, did make it a bit harder for the Corporate Media to do its usual brainwashing, but they have come up with some very creative ways to sell their story. As you see, there, Israel has been doing its part to keep the Nazis in power:

Steve Bandera, a journalist and Canadian citizen, has steadfastly maintained for years that his grandfather, and the Ukrainian nationalist movement in general, are innocent of perpetrating war crimes against Jews.

TL,DR: The people who now run Ukraine worship the memory of Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera, who was rescued by the CIA from Nuremberg because he was a convenient tool for them--this is the origin of the Azov Battalion. Meanwhile, the Galician/Ukrainian/Ruthenian diaspora--who now form the core of our foreign policy elite in Eastern Europea--are in total denial about what a monster the guy was, doubly so about their own ancestors, triply so about how their ancestors "earned" the privilege of being relocated to the US/Canada/Australia, and quadruply so about the ideology and intent of the current crop of "nationalist patriots" running Ukraine.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 26 2022 0:48 utc | 145

Considering Ukraine is an artificial country cobbled together from bits and pieces of other countries' territories. We can disagree if they were liberated, acquired, seized, ceded or 'given'.

Of course one can not give away something that belongs to someone else. Look at the British in Palestine for example. Look at the League of Nations and the supranational United Nations and the ongoing troubles their biased and corrupt decisions have caused.

Several countries lost territory including the Grand Duchy of Poland and Lithuania. I try to avoid insulting barflies with bogus politicised wikipedia links.,_Bohemia_and_Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania_(Jagellonia)

Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Slovakia, Roumania, Hungary, Belarus and possibly Moldova have lost territory in these grotesque carve ups:

Perhaps another Congress of Vienna type of conference of the above-mentioned 'concerned' European nations should be held possibly in Minsk, strictly invitation only, to keep troublemakers, saboteurs and gatecrashers away. This could lead to genuine self determination, equity and a more durable peace.

Posted by: Paul | Feb 26 2022 0:51 utc | 146

Whoops. I messed up that link on Gladio:">">

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 26 2022 0:51 utc | 147

Sorry. I'm not sure why the link isn't playing nice, but if you want to see the page just delete those two spaces in there, and it should take you to where you want to go. Otherwise, search for that address in 2017 on the Wayback Machine and you can read an awful lot of stuff about Op. Gladio.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 26 2022 1:57 utc | 148

@ Pacifica Advocate | Feb 26 2022 0:48 utc | 145... thanks for that thorough post and all. i appreciate it. i found this link connecting to canada of the banderite network..

The">">The Canadian Bandera Network

Posted by: james | Feb 26 2022 2:51 utc | 149

my turn to mess up a link...

Canadian Bandera Network

Posted by: james | Feb 26 2022 2:53 utc | 150

Levine is not worth to pay the paywall.

Posted by: aquadraht | Feb 26 2022 0:32 utc | 144

1) How would you know it was a "rant" if you couldn't listen due to a paywall? None of his past commentary has been "ranting."

2) It's a conversation with personal analysis of the situation based on personal knowledge and experience in/of the countries in question.

3) I have only listened to the first 5 minutes, so I can confirm it's no "rant" by any standard, but when I do finish listening I'll get back to you.

4) I agree with your second paragraph minus a few minor quibbles. What has Levine written in the past that so turns you off to him? He's certainly no anti-communist.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 26 2022 3:07 utc | 151

Pacifica Advocate | Feb 26 2022 0:48 utc | 145
Ukraine’s nazis are *real* nazis
While I knew most of that…your post brings it together succinctly.

The questions and disputes here in recent threads about Ukraine nazis (mostly by new name driveby posters, that nazis can’t exist because, der, Zelensky is Jewish) had me reflecting.

Russia lost 25-27?-30 millions to nazis.
The war trauma is deep, and held universally, across the entire fabric of the nation. What better way to “trigger”, “troll” every single Russian than taunt them with nazis “next door”.
Seeing Ukrainians glorify Bandera, erect statues, hold candle light marches in his honor.
To have statues and memorials to Soviet soldier’s (fathers, grandfathers) desecrated across post Soviet Eastern Europe.
To negate, even mock, Russia’s suffering to ensure victory for the “allies “ in WW2 is beyond diabolical.
To put it bluntly. It’s a mind fuck.

And now I’ve given it thought, I imagine this is entirely, entirely deliberate.
There’s some sick, deeply evil bastard monsters lurking in Langley, Washington, London, Poland and Israel. (+)

First, Declare a nation of deeply, deeply traumatised people “the enemy”, when all they want to do is live and let live.
Smack away any hand they offer in friendship.
Then, taunt them again and again and again with the very cause of their trauma.
The more I contemplate what I now see as the deliberate placement and use of nazis in Ukraine, the more empathy I have for Russia and her long suffering people.

Even greater grows the revulsion I have for the sick evil, grinning fucks who would have devised this “game plan”.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 26 2022 4:02 utc | 152

Aquadraht 131,

you have also been triggered. so much so that you can't see anything through your rage.

"the next, up to 8, were hateful antisemitism"

These are the party points you refer to above, to which I'll add, remember the context... :

"None but members of the nation may be citizens of the state. None but those of German blood, whatever their creed may be. No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the nation.

Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest and must be regarded as being subject to foreign laws.
The right of voting on the state's government and legislation is to be enjoyed by the citizen of the state alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, shall be granted to citizens of the state alone. We oppose the corrupting custom of parliament of filling posts merely with a view to party considerations, and without reference to character or capability.

We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to nourish the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) must be excluded from the Reich.

All immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be required immediately to leave the Reich."

Note that citizenship requirements exclude all non-Germans and not just Jews. Note that nowhere does it say Jews cannot live in Germany as guests.

You conveniently didn't comment on the rest of the points, which cumulatively can be described as militant, nationalist, hard Leftism.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 4:31 utc | 153

Pacifica Advocate @145,

Thank you very much for taking the time to post such a thoughtful response to my question. I'll work my way through it and reply further.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 4:42 utc | 154

Melaleuca | Feb 26 2022 4:02 utc | 152

In a conversation at Consortium News today, Mark Sleboda describes what goes on at one of Atlantic Council propagandist Melinda Harding’s favorite Lviv restaurants —- larping, role playing the ~1930s whereby when a customer orders Russian dumplings they are taken out back. Description at about 1:24 in conversation. Sleboda is not optimistic re de-Nazifying the western part of the country.

Ritter says Russian intelligence has been watching from inside for a long time and knew it had become a colony of USNATO while Langley is inept.

It is a long conversation. Wish there was a transcript.

Posted by: suzan | Feb 26 2022 5:20 utc | 155

We'll all see in the coming days, just how popular the western installed Gov. of Ukraine really is with the people.

Should be interesting. We'll see.

Posted by: vetinLA | Feb 26 2022 5:31 utc | 156

reante | Feb 26 2022 4:31 utc | 153

I relate to socialism as a system that delivers the best and fairest outcome for the people as a collective that does not simultaneously suppress or artificially elevate the importance of individual personhood. I judge if something is socialist or Marxist by the results not by the semantics or optics.

That Hitler used Socialist in his parrty's name was in no way indicating actual socialist policies (as per my definition above). He was in bed with big companies and with foreign money from the get go as far as I can ascertain. I do not personally think Hitler is the ultimate evil that has ever existed, there are plenty of contenders past and present, but the outcomes of his ideology were pretty bad in the extreme for a great number of people, not the least of whom were Russians.

My judgement is if Hitler was a socialist then he was really, really bad at it. :) I think that people in power can be self deceived as to their expressed motives or intentions, because they are human, so all we can do is judge by the actual outcome, don't you think? And there is a possibility that the word "socialist" was included for cynically reasons.

Also I may not be academically correct in this, but my opinion is that there is no such thing in Marxism or Socialism as "far left". I think this is a made up pejorative of the Colonial Capitalist class. There is simply Communism or Socialism. If leaders in such systems become dictators then they are no longer socialist, and in general dictators need big money and the military to keep them in power. I see this as being closer to fascism.

Simplistic but that's just how I make sense of the spectrum. I do not think that any real left or socialism exists in the western capitalist countries, and in general liberals and conservatives in the west really show little understanding of the concept of socialism or sympathy with the concept of the wellbeing of the collective of humanity. Even though Putin is not a communist, he definitely understands and respects the need for the primacy of the well being of the people. I am not aware of another capitalist leader who behaves in this way. This is why i respect him.

I guess in summary I am saying that its best when words and actions match, I find China and Russia to both be reliable in this regard. also Cuba, probably others that I am not well enough acquainted with.

Maybe Hitlers actions did match his words, but not if you are claiming he was a socialist or a leftist. Actually I think the left/right universe of descriptives has truly outworn its welcome and we should all just move on.

Posted by: K | Feb 26 2022 9:20 utc | 157

Satire from the Beaverton: (the authoritative Canadian source for fake news)

“No word yet on whether the soulless totalitarian despot was left feeling satisfied by his war crimes, though he has reportedly ordered several “impulse journalist assassinations” for the weekend.”

A little playful punch at authoritarian Putin: “Putin treats himself to a few war crimes he’s had his eye on”

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Feb 26 2022 9:31 utc | 158

“A new dawn is breaking in Ukraine now, and the nation is still kicking asses”

Not satire! Montreal’s La Presse is showing video clips from this guy, a journalist with the Kyiv Independent. Yeesh. (Maybe Agence France Presse is to blame for that one.)

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Feb 26 2022 9:48 utc | 159

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 26 2022 0:48 utc | 145

This deserves to be posted somewhere as a full article with some direct link...

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Feb 26 2022 11:27 utc | 160

It seems Adam Tooze is not the only person noticing that the "sanctions" on Russia are not really sanctioning:

Here's Why Russian Sanctions Are A Dud ... - WallStreetOnParade

As the Russian sanctions are currently structured, it’s difficult to say if the plan is to stop Russian military aggression on its neighbors or to allow foreign global banks to grab market share in Russia.

It seems increasingly clear that the only power the US has, or at least thinks it has, is bankster power.

I suppose it all makes sense since the the US actual economy is focused on financialization - i.e. bankster power.

And, of course, any "real" sanctions on Russia would hurt everyone in the world (energy) or European economies (diamonds, cars, handbags etc).

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 26 2022 14:14 utc | 161

@Posted by: c1ue | Feb 26 2022 14:14 utc | 161

Yeah, US sanctions will hurt everyone in the world, especially the Eu taxpayers, but not them, since they left out of sanction oil imports and drilling material, enough to keep their business on currently newly acquired monopoly on lieuified gas exports to the EU through this provocations which then led to the Ukraine operation by the Russians...

The EU taxpapayers are financing the coming US financial crash and economic fiasco through the selling of vaccines first and now liquifed super expensive gas, then the prices of gas feed the prices of electricity in a nightmarish bucle...

Posted by: Givi | Feb 26 2022 14:26 utc | 162

Any real ideas on how the situation is at this moment in time?
It appears the Ukrainians are fighting in the pockets they are defending a lot harder than the Russians expected.
It also appears the Russia ability to move quickly isn't as good as they touted.
A war being fought in a country the size of France wasn't going to be the quick walkover in the first instance.
The end result probably won't change but the cost is rising very quickly for the Russians.
How are they going to manage logistically?
How will the next few days play out?

Posted by: Jpc | Feb 26 2022 15:02 utc | 163

I sse a lot of comment critical of military action by Russia beyond the Donbass twins. While the current action does go beyond the absolute minimum required to secure the Donbass, there is a case that can be made for what Mr. Putin has decided to do in addition. It comes down to ensuring that U. will be a good neighbour to Russia in the future.

As long as the Azov etc. hardcore right groups are permitted to exist in U. there will be no possibility for positive relations with Russia. These groups were the reason for the Minsk agreement never standing a chance - no U politician dared to attempt to implement any aspect of it. And unless these groups are dealt with - i.e. eliminated - there will be trouble because Virginia Nuland will bring cookies to them.

So while there was an obvious need for Russia to stabilise the Donbass, it makes sense to eradicate the Azov and company cancer and other potentially troublesome infrastructure while you're at it.

By all accounts the incursion is at pains to limit civilian casualties and I have no doubt will not keep a Russian soldier on U. soil for a minute longer than it takes to achieve those aims.

Posted by: augrr | Feb 26 2022 15:23 utc | 164

Latest Scott Ritter (on Dan Cohen show)

Ritter makes several new and important points:

1) Russia is renowned for its artillery, but has unquestionably not used it to pre-prepare for attacks in Ukraine. This is clearly meant to minimize civilian and Ukrainian military casualties even though it will unquestionably increase Russian casualties.
All reports of Ukrainian deaths, both civilian and military, are low: UK, US and Ukrainian government reports included.

2) Chechen special ops groups that are part of the Russian National Guard have been brought in. These groups were deployed in Chechnya to clean up after the hard core Chechen separatists and Salafi foreign fighters in the ending stages of the 2nd Chechen war; they're in Ukraine to do the same for the neo-Nazis.

3) Russia has not cut off internet, phone or other communications access across the Ukraine even though they have full capability to do so - since they have clear air superiority, cyber attack etc. capabilities.
Again, this is intended to enable Ukrainians to understand that the Russian "military operation" is not seeking to kill a lot of people and to encourage the Ukrainian military not to resist.

4) Scott suspects the Ukrainian military will surrender in a few days. He does not believe that there is organized strong resistance nor capability to withstand the Russian incursion.
It should be noted that only 60K Russian troops are estimated to be in the Ukraine vs. the 290K Ukrainian army.

5) Ritter also noted that there has not been any indiscriminate attack on "dual use" targets such as radio/TV stations, hospitals, bridges unlike US operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 26 2022 16:01 utc | 165

Jpc | Feb 26 2022 15:02 utc | 163 "It also appears the Russia ability to move quickly isn't as good as they touted."

Where the fuck do you clowns come up with this shit. how about linking to where Russian leadership has 'touted' the crap you lot dream up? Or do you just take your news from western propaganda?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 26 2022 16:09 utc | 166

@Peter AU1 #166
Don't be too hard on Jpc (and others). The amount of dis- and mis- information on Ukraine right now is amazing.
No doubt Jpc got his view from the dumbass on Twitter who compared a advancing during a military conflict with driving at the top speed of an armored vehicle from Belarus to Kiev - which is to say, 8 hours.
In the real world, combat is not the same as driving to a ski resort.
Secondly, military vehicles are not the same as a touring sedan.
But you can't expert ignorant people to be able to distinguish utter bullshit from what *could* be factual.
A more valid response would be: The Russians are advancing into Ukraine faster than the US military advanced into Iraq.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 26 2022 17:15 utc | 167

@ augrr | Feb 26 2022 15:23 utc | 164.. its true some of what you say, but a more cynical viewpoint would be that the west knew exactly what it was doing and supporting the this nazi element had full support from the west.. cia training and etc etc for these psychopaths is just a small part of it... the west didn't want a positive outcome in the ukraine.. it wanted to piss on russia... russia has a different agenda..

Posted by: james | Feb 26 2022 17:20 utc | 168

in case you missed it.. i know bevin posted it yesterday.. short and sweet article by patrick armstrong..


Posted by: james | Feb 26 2022 17:31 utc | 169

c1ue 167

It is not so much a matter of understanding military reality that annoys me, rather it is those who say Russia said this, Russia said that when Russian leadership have said no such thing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 26 2022 17:35 utc | 170

Pacifica Advocate @145,

Thanks again.

Having gone through the links you provided I simply do not see justification for calling these hardcore Ukrainian nationalists 'nazis.' The atlantic council blog post made clear the organic nature of these rural nationalists. The may have allied with the The Third Reich, out of a combination of necessity and shared hatred of the inherent ideological supremacism in Old Testament Capitalism that no one here can deny is objectionable, but they were also abused by the behemoth Third Reich in the Reich's own quest for self-determination. But nowhere did any of your links show that these Ukrainian nationalists were formally part of the Reich, which is what would be required in order to legitimately refer to them as 'nazis.' Illegitimate use of the term is the very height of propaganda; 'nazi' is the political equivalent of nigger.

These Ukrainian nationalists are all twisted up inside, to be sure. But so are all state-level militants: you filter ANY military industrial complex through the soul of Man whose faculties for FAIRNESS are indubitably hard-wired by evolution for very small societies and you get a monster who has lost all sense of right and wrong.

The Ukrainian nationalists are much more akin to the Taliban, that I can tell. Proud, hardy, anti-imperialist people unfortunately living beyond Dunbar's Number because this is the age of industrialism. Living beyond Dunbar's Number is never pretty and is always ugly, because it's always political, and the end result is always the psychological projection of one's own structural failings WRT the exceeding of our socially hard-wired abilities to judge fairness onto others, which is where politics begins.

Let us not do that because it just clouds our thinking. I get that we all have pent-up grievances we can't clear because we're prisoners of this industrial nightmare that we're not naturally adapted for living in honestly... but that's what the human capacity for spirituality is for - taking a step back and letting go of the hurt and just seeing things for what they are.

Humans reach for open spaces. That's a deep evolutionary function, because open spaces in ecologies are where natural abundance lies, and we depend on the ecology to live and bear children. If the Ukrainian nationalists allied themselves with the Global Fascists of Old Testament Capitalism, then that's a rather 'ironic' thing for them to do as 'nazis' now isn't it?

All they are really doing, in their profound lostness born of scaling-up beyond their capacity for fairness, is grasping for open space against the imperial Russians who conquered them not 100 years ago; and in doing so they were seduced by excess money and power thrown at them by Global Fascism.

These Ukrainian nationalists are uprooted, abused peoples living in deeply disturbed ecologies. And they're warriors.

Should they just roll over? Or should they thrash about violently really knowing not exactly what they do?

If we choose to otherize them we only do so because what they represent is present in our own shadow, or because the consequences of their existence on our own lives, scares us. That's not s good enough reason. It's scapegoating.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 18:46 utc | 171

@ reante | Feb 26 2022 18:46 utc | 171... interesting conjecture... thanks for saying all that.. regarding your last line, what do you suppose has to be done here at this moment in time with the azoz battalion as an example? thanks..

Posted by: james | Feb 26 2022 19:45 utc | 172

K @ 157,

thank you.

socialism most fundamentally is an economic structure because, as the Marxist MLK rightly noted, all material inequality is a function of economic inequality. I'm sure we can all agree on that. the social safety net is the bottom-up way that the top-down system puts a floor under inequality, and we associate social safety nets with socialism. The more evenly distributed the safety net, the more socialist is the nation. The net can come in the form of entitlements or job guarantees/requirements, and demographics play the deciding role in who gets what.

If you look at the remaining points on the NSDAP party platform discussed earlier -- the ones following those that I cut and pasted, I think you will see the outline for a very strong social safety net for its day.

As for NSDAP's plan for structuring the economy itself, it's primary goal was to wrest control from the private money masters and reestablish the primacy of the national treasury. Upon this foundation the general philosophy was similar to Mussolini's populist fascism of a relatively decentralized marketplace of small-to-medium-size capitalist syndicalism. Mussolini's National Syndicalism being worker-owned capitalist corporations expressly in service of the 'national good.' Hitler's more germanic vision was for more highly-regulated capital flows within a similarly decentralized and syndicalist, profit-sharing model, so as to distribute income more evenly.

On the social side, Hitler was very 'Left' in some fundamental ways (yes, you're right, the Left/Right thing is arbitrary...): he was a vegan (an urban-minded hardcore environmentalist), and his military was the only fully racially integrated military in WW2. He was also very 'Right'/conservative. That's national socialism, a cross-party platform. And it was an autarkic platform explicitly striving for self-sufficiency, which is a universal ideal shared by both the 'Left'and 'Right.'

The defense against your legitimate 'proof is in the pudding' standard of judgement is, well, look at the context of his time in power. Neither deeply repressed nor mobilizing War economies are exactly ideal circumstances for implementing attractive social policy. Nevertheless, NSDAP was legendary for it's ability to create jobs.

I'm not defending Hitler. All these worldly leaders are megalomaniacs who believe that they have the right to decide the fates of people and ecologies they have never met before; that's the politician's pathetic lot in life.

If you watch Tulsi Gabbard's speech at CPAC yesterday, and subsitute 'jew' for her phrase 'power elite, you will see a contemporary national socialist, call to arms. The coming national socialism will not include pogroms.

Putin, btw, is also best described as a national socialist. Once we get beyond the fascist, media-manufactured stereotyping of NS, a lot of the political confusion falls away. The Global Fascists are sneaking NS in the back door, because capitalism is collapsing due to industrialism hitting the limits to growth three to four years ago.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 19:53 utc | 173

reante 171

regardless of Reichs, Azov battalion use nazi insignia and are usually termed neo-nazi's. Then there are the far right fascist organisations. I looked up wikipeda tomake sure I got the names of these organizations right not expecting to find much. Wikipedia has many pages devoted to the entirely fictional history of what I call nazi Ukraine. I got a surprise to find this.
Far-right politics in Ukraine refers to the actions, organizations, and beliefs of the far-right in Ukraine. In the recent years it has been closely related to an increased level of extreme far-right ideology promoting neo-nazism, white supremacy, antisemitism and xenophobia in Ukraine.[1] There is a growing body of evidence of civil freedom violations, bans on books, violence of far-right extremists, ultranationalism, neo-Nazi pogroms of ethnic communities such as Roma people, attacks on feminists and LGBT minorities, and officially sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.[2]

Some sources note that confrontations between the right-wing extremists and law enforcement officers demonstrate an unexplained passivity of the Ukrainian police when it comes to preventing, suppressing or investigating the illegal actions.[3]

In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election all major Ukrainian right-wing parties formed a nationwide united party list with the political parties Svoboda, National Corps, the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, and the Right Sector.[4] However, the resulting coalition only managed to win 2.15% of the popular vote, and since the coalition failed to pass the 5% threshold it gained no parliamentary seats.[5] No far-right parties gained seats in the Verkhovna Rada (Ukraine's parliament), as they all failed to win any single-mandate constituency seat.[5]

Note that amongst the far right groups, Azov battalion is not mentioned.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 26 2022 20:02 utc | 174


The hate for Russia inwestern Ukraine is no different to the Polish hat for Russia. Western Ukrain, Right across to Kiev was Polish for many hundreds of years, even though most of the slavs there are eastern Kievian Rus slavs that went west with the mongol invasion rather than not with the Rus who were to become Russia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 26 2022 20:08 utc | 175

Okay that is weird. I created a twitter account just to be able to access twitter feed and I followed a few feeds which I found valuable, and also to see how it works, and I am already blocked by someone (Elena Evkodimova) before I ever posted anything. So where I could freely browse what people said now with the new twitter policies that effectively means I get locked out unless i start to fiddle with scripting. Or does twitter apply blocks sometimes? Since she is pretty much pro Russian.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Feb 26 2022 20:09 utc | 176

@ Tuyzentfloot | Feb 26 2022 20:09 utc | 176... it might be her blocking you as opposed to twitter blocking you... i believe that is how it can work, although i am not on twitter... facebook does a very similar thing... you can't read someones page if you aren't friends with them, or if they don't want you to.. they can set to private..

Posted by: james | Feb 26 2022 20:13 utc | 177

Tuyzentfloot 176

Quite likely a twitter block. I am using both incognito mode in yandex which bypasses the block and also translates the Russian and Ukraine accounts and firefox with the add on to bypass the twitter block.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 26 2022 20:17 utc | 178

james @ 172,

my pleasure, thanks.

but WADR I'm not aware of any conjecture in my comment. if there is then I'd appreciate you pointing it out so I can address it.

I'm a biological farmer. The azov battalion is analogous to a patch of dandelions and thistles where i did too much tractor work last year. A biological farmer winces at the prickly weeds he is responsible for bringing into existence but sees that the weeds are dynamic accumulators of nutrients that restore local fertility to the ecology. Without weeds, lush grasses can't exist once the industrial machine has compacted the ground.

The Ukrainian nationalists just need space and time. They are rural folk, recent landraces with that legacy still running through their veins. But Global Fascism, which includes Russia as one of its franchises, can't afford to be biological farmers right now. GF is fighting to maintain structural surpluses on the global People Farm, so GF needs to apply herbicide to the patch of weeds and then reseed and fertilize.

The Ukrainian nationalists cannot be allowed to have the time and space to heal their ground because the Ukrainian ground is littered from east to west, and north to south, with failing nuclear reactor that Russia built and Russia is responsible for dealing with before they threaten the "power elite" themselves. This is THE fundamental reason why we are witnessing a non-public handing-over of the Ukraine back to Russia. NATO standing-down and their superficial sanctions are the lines between which we read into the true goings-on.

As I said a few days ago, the elites are the opposite of suicidal. Since they have full-spectrum dominance over the global population, the only major threats to their existence at this point are biodiversity collapse and the inability to maintain or dispose of the grid-dependent ticking radioactive time bombs that are the 420 nuclear power plants around the world.

The non-public globalist Degrowth policy architecture ushered in by the plandemic centers on the top two priorities: maintaining adequate stability in the countries that have nuclear weapons (the plutonium in the warheads themselves are atomically), which means ensuring an adequate fossil fuel supply, and safely managing the countries with nuclear power stations.

The legacy risks of the nuclear age have much more to do with nuclear power than nuclear war, and they can't have weeds growing through the cracks in power station parking lots - you let the weeds come up and people start questioning civilization. If people start questioning civilization then all is lost.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 20:37 utc | 179

I had meant to include this link pertaining to the Ukrainian nuclear problem.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 20:42 utc | 180

@james it might just be her indeed. Sees some unknown account with no tweets who just follows and draws conclusions.
@peter AU1 I installed yandex browser and indeed I can access twitter feeds again! Which firefox addon do you mean? Ublock can do such a thing but it looks nontrivial.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Feb 26 2022 20:52 utc | 181

peter AU1,

these aren't strictly 'nazi' symbols. there may be an element of 'nazi' co-optation seeing as how there is significant overlap in ideology. The act of co-optation is performed in order to symbolically parasitize the perceived power of that which is being co-opted: the Third Reich operated by all accounts the most capable and disciplined military of modern times; it was legendary, and that type of inspiration is an important part of establishing an underdog mentality.

Beyond that, these are at root pagan symbols. Neopaganism is par for the course for young anti-imperialists. I wish that they would just continue on to our true human roots in animism, but there's much less power in that.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 20:53 utc | 182

sorry a correction to my comment at 179.

"the plutonium in the warheads themselves are atomically STABLE"

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 20:58 utc | 183

regarding the superficial sanctions, it's not to say that they are fixed in stone. we can't know how much global demand the elite plan to destroy with this crisis. Maybe they believe it is time to end the petrodollar in a big way via SWIFT. maybe they will include a nuclear scare. When the elite go, they generally go big. They're mafioso after all. But this Degrowth plan, it's a finesse play, too.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 21:06 utc | 184

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 20:37 utc | 179

The Ukrainian nationalists cannot be allowed to have the time and space to heal their ground because the Ukrainian ground is littered from east to west, and north to south, with failing nuclear reactor that Russia built and Russia is responsible for dealing with before they threaten the "power elite" themselves. This is THE fundamental reason why we are witnessing a non-public handing-over of the Ukraine back to Russia. NATO standing-down and their superficial sanctions are the lines between which we read into the true goings-on.

Thanks for your analysis - it makes sense and does look like it might explain a lot of what is going on.

Although the West is making a lot of noise it really is doing zero to interfere with what Russia is doing. I don't know that your stated reason is the full explanation but I agree that this sure looks like "we are witnessing a non-public handing-over of the Ukraine back to Russia". My theory for why the West is dumping Ukraine back into Russia's lap is that it is more trouble than it is worth, but your theory deserves consideration.

Posted by: jinn | Feb 26 2022 21:15 utc | 185

Nazis who don't like the negative connotations of the term used to refer to them sure are cute. Nazis should show a little more self-respect and embrace their name.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 26 2022 21:20 utc | 186

yeah, jinn, for sure. I mentioned a couple days ago that collapsing ukraine is no longer profitable for the collapsing West. The costs are exceeding the returns, whereas prior to the sea change, the marginal returns of the were just enough to contribute to the marginal returns of global ponzi capitalism. But now that Russia is the legacy patron of Ukraine, and is still running a current account surplus, she is better positioned to make a marginal return on Ukrainian investment and thereby better control the global collapse. In return Russia gets back the best farmland nation, pound for pound, on the planet.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 21:41 utc | 187

William Gruff, one of the links posted by Pacifica Advocate mentioned that these Ukrainian nationalists are reclaiming 'nazi' for themselves in the same way blacks have done with nigger

touche my sour brother.

Posted by: reante | Feb 26 2022 21:45 utc | 188

Just tried to send this link via email. It was blocked "by unknown reasons". No kidding:

Posted by: njet | Feb 26 2022 21:49 utc | 189

Tuyzentfloot | Feb 26 2022 20:52 utc | 181

This is the link to it. Beware, this does access your data. There was a bit about it in the original thread where this was posted

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 26 2022 21:50 utc | 190

@Peter AU1 thanks.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Feb 26 2022 22:24 utc | 191

Don't forget that Reante regurgitates Nazi talking points

Posted by: Misotheist | Feb 26 2022 22:48 utc | 192
Despite manpower shortages, the Waffen-SS was still based on the racist ideology of Nazism, thereby ethnic Poles were specifically regarded as "second-class people" and the Poles were the only ethnic group from whom neither voluntary SS units nor uniformed auxiliary police were ever created.[22] Early in 1943, the Waffen-SS accepted 12,643 of the 53,000 recruits it garnered in western Ukraine and by 1944 the number reached as high as 22,000.[23]

Recruitment efforts in 1943 in Estonia yielded about 5,000 soldiers for the 20th Estonian Waffen-SS division.[24] In Latvia, however, the Nazis were more successful, as, by 1944, there were upwards of 100,000 soldiers serving in the Latvian Waffen-SS divisions.[24]

...Amid the 11,000 Ukrainian members of the former SS Galizien, who had fled westwards to surrender—replete in their German SS uniforms—to the British in Italy, only 3,000 of them were repatriated to the Soviet Union. The rest remained temporarily lodged at Rimini as displaced persons, many of whom became British or Canadian citizens as a result of Cold War expediency

There is about as much daylight between a fascist and a nazi as there is between a wahhabbi and an islamic terrorist. Ukraine has both fascists and nazi's all in plain view.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 26 2022 23:03 utc | 193

The perception of Putin is now quickly turning into 'the new Hitler' but also includes the softer forms of dismissal of Russian concerns:
- Putin's decisions are not legitimate but driven by his resentful, obsessive irrational personality.
- Deceit and pretexts: you cannot believe any claim because it is just a cover story for something else
- domestic power battles: Putin's decisions are driven by self preservation.

No central coordination is required for thousands of analysts coming up simultaneously with this type of analysis.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Feb 26 2022 23:07 utc | 194

peter AU1,

thanks for the history on the Ukrainian SS volunteer army. that helps answer my original question.

I find it helps me to remain impartial to the all-around madness of the two world wars by remember that agricultural civilization itself is an imperial dynamic, because it requires year-on-year growth in the form of structural surpluses. The history of civilization is opposing standing armies facing off against each other because their respective societies must run structural surpluses - they must grow, and because of this, they are chronically bumping up against each other.

The growth mandate is not only the province of finance capitalism. Finance capitalism, because of the usurious interes-bearing debts, must grow faster, and because of that is more brittle than socialist markets, but even socialisms with their relative resilient debt dynamics, must also grow.

We all know that the two world wars were fought for control of oil fields. Whoever controlled the most oil first, would have the biggest empire. And so it was; the USSR and USA. The Germans were no fools and saw it coming. They had coal but no oil, and they were trapped between what they knew would be the two most powerful empires that ever existed. That much was obvious. And Germany, like Britain, culturally were deeply ambivalent about the unstoppable juggernaut that was industrialism. Romanticism profoundly affected both cultures, but the German strain was especially nationalistic in part because of its history with France. And Romanticism, of course, was by nature anti-industrial.

This volkish philosophy was an earnest one. The founding vision for The Third Reich was what was considered to be a compromise between the agrarian ideal and reality: the Reich was to be structured as an agrarian protectorate, whereby an industrial military sheltered a more organic culture. The rest was history. The were damned if did start the second war and damned if they didn't. Anybody can see that. Their greatest cultural nemesis in OT Capitalism went on to rule the world and turn it into one big plantation economy, at the cost of half the wild species on the planet and counting...

I highly recommend Anna Bramwell's book on Richard Darre, who led Hitler's green wing. Bramwell is a libertarian ivy league professor and she got blacklisted because of it. You cannot get the book in print.

Posted by: reante | Feb 27 2022 1:28 utc | 195

@ reante | Feb 26 2022 20:37 utc | 179... thanks for the additional commentary... i think it goes without saying when people talk, it is a mix of information that typically here at moa anyway, contains elements of conjecture.. if you can't see it in your commentary here or @ 171, i am not sure how i can help you see it.. i like your paralles with weeds and your being a ''biological farmer''.... here is what i know... weeds such as dandelions pull nutrients from deeper in the ground up into the top soil to enrich the top soil.. many gardeners just want to get rid of these ''weeds'' because they don't understand the process.. however using that as an analogy for the azov battalion doesn't fly with me.. a better comparison would be with a very invasive species that is harmful, as opposed to a dandelion which is not.. now, i don't know if i will go as far as @ Misotheist | Feb 26 2022 22:48 utc | 192. but i do see why they are suggesting what they are here...

you can get a copy of the book you refer to @195.. look under the title - A New Nobility of Blood and Soil... i have read a lot of wendell berry myself.. perhaps you are familiar with him... cheers..

Posted by: james | Feb 27 2022 3:40 utc | 196

thanks james. okay fair enough regarding conjecture, so long as it's not being levied as a nonspecific criticism, which I do get the impression it's not. Im dealing with universal human themes and patterns so not being omniscient doesn't necessarily mean I'm overstepping bounds. but point taken.

thanks for reminding me about Darre's book. Maybe I will read it someday. Bramwell's book about Darre is the one I was talking about. "Blood and Soil: Richard Walther Darre and Hitler's Green Party."

Wendell Berry's great. Growing like a tree is what I try to do.

regarding your invasive species analogy, I don't see that it adds anything beyond the idea that hardcore violent nationalists are generally types that imperial People Farmers don't want around. I don't see 'invasive' plants as harmful. They bear fruits, they fix nitrogen, they're just plants going about their business like everyone else, and they deserve everything they work for. generally they are like weeds, building back up disturbed soils and low-fertility ecologies. If we treat the land well then they go away.

thanks for the conversation.

Posted by: reante | Feb 27 2022 4:15 utc | 197

reante | Feb 27 2022 1:28 utc | 195

Thanks for the reply. Something interesting I learnt just a few weeks back. After the Russian revolution, the soviets did not want all the previous Russian empire. Mongolia wanted in but was kept out. It created its own soviet and aligned with the soviet union. Something I learnt off Putin even more recently. The soviets broke the country, the previous Russian empire, into separate states that each had the right of self determination. Ukraine was one of the states created. By the time it was finished with the addition of Crimea in the fifties it contained many different ethnic groups. The Soviet Union did try to export its ideology.

Throughout history, there has been two types of empires. Those that are out to screw the vassals out of everything they can, and those that bring peace to a region so those within can trade and travel safely. But certainly, throughout history it has been a matter of get big or become a slave.
Both China and Russia, they will fight before becoming a slave, but I believe that both understand that the days of empire are long gone, Russia's vision of a multi polar world the only thing that is sustainable in the age of nuclear weapons. Both want a friendly world with which they can trade, but neither will kowtow to the US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 27 2022 4:46 utc | 198

Russian sources continue to report progress surrounding and cutting off the major Ukrainian cities. Western politicians and media, expecting the indiscriminate bombing and destruction that they normally reek upon their victims seem utterly perplexed that the Russians do not do the same. There is a complete lack of understanding in western circles that Russia has a different approach and it's not scorched earth. This is why the US wins the war but loses the peace, and its a great strength of the Russian approach.

Posted by: paulymx | Feb 27 2022 12:47 utc | 199

appreciate those reflections. Had a glance at mongolian history and it looks like their wanting to join the USSR was the same essential dynamic as this Ukrainian 'nazi' business. The mongolian state had just fought a war to rid themselves of the Chinese yoke.

I hear you on the two types but I cannot see that the 'good cop' is fundamentally any more peaceable than the 'bad cop.' Both have a gun at their hip and ultimately one must do as they say or else. It's just cultural differences. I do, however, see that the semitic, Phoenician merchant banking culture that came to dominate the Roman Empire that devastated Europe's natural resources base for centuries, and then rose again in Italy about 500 years ago only to cover the whole earth, is a special kind of evil. Yet most people who think democracy is something more than lipstick on a pig see Global Fascism as a wonderfully peaceable and free system for the last 75 years - no world wars and you can tour the planet to boot, like princes and princesses.

Posted by: Peter AU1, | Feb 27 2022 17:00 utc | 200

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