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February 25, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-17
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Now events will drastically change!
Germanys 5000 helmets are underway.
Posted by: Tapio | Feb 25 2022 15:47 utc | 1
So Putin gave a serious effort at diplomacy back in December. Russia’s concerns were completely ignored. (Even while he had amassed tanks on Ukraine’s border). He took action. Surprised? Not surprised? This has been a long time in the making.
Meanwhile all the sheep following the mainstream media prefer the simplicity of calling Putin a monster.
How does this play out long-term? Does it actually serve US interests by casting Putin as a threat, uniting NATO, and driving a wedge into Eurasian economic integration? Was it a trap?
Posted by: Joe | Feb 25 2022 15:53 utc | 2
Just remember, just because the majority of Ukrainians are Russian-speaking doesn’t make them pro-Russian. The analogy is to Eire: just because the majority of Irish are English-speaking does not make them pro-English. However, while Irish and English speakers are at peace that is not the case for the Ukraine: the Wesztern Ukraine in particular is anti-Russian and anti-Semetic.
Posted by: Albertde | Feb 25 2022 15:54 utc | 3
Briefly on the progression of things day 2.
“It is pretty clear that the coalition can win in Afghanistan and Iraq in one way or another, but it will be a long, hard slog”.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 25 2022 16:08 utc | 4
There was some alarmist talk by a few posters expressing “concern” about the dire situation of a Russian airborne unit tasked with capturing an important airbase outside Kiev (Gostomel). Like the unit being wiped out or trapped by the Ukrainian military.
Here’s a report from Russian MOD on Sputnik that describes events somewhat differently:
https://sputniknews.com/20220225/russian-military-sucessfully-conducts-landing-operation-at-gostomel-airfield-outside-kiev—mod-1093367608.html
Posted by: thermobarbaric | Feb 25 2022 16:14 utc | 5
It serves US and British interests for Putin and RF to overextend themselves in Ukraine. Sure they can beat the Ukrainian Army but pacific Ian is another story. Look at the US experience in Iraq or Russia experience in Afghanistan.
Zelensky had plenty of time to negotiate but didn’t. Too late.
If the reports of Bioweapon labs in Ukraine are true (and I believe they are), Putin need to publicize that.
Posted by: Beltway bandit | Feb 25 2022 16:15 utc | 6
https://www.newswars.com/russian-strikes-targeting-us-run-bio-labs-in-ukraine/
Where there is smoke, there is fire.
Posted by: Beltway bandit | Feb 25 2022 16:18 utc | 7
I will continue to bark; This, as it is, DIDN”T need to happen. The pro-NATO crowd wanted the existing scenario to happen. By refusing to deal with Russia’s LIGITMATE security concerns, they forced Russia to act.
Now, the same people who ALWAYS reap massive profits in war, are dancing in the streets.
The sad truth remains; What’s happening now, DIDN’T have to happen, and only the peons will “reap the whirlwinds” of war….
Posted by: vetinLA | Feb 25 2022 16:19 utc | 8
This laid the groundwork to insure the present situation in Ukraine;
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/06/03/how-why-us-government-perpetrated-2014-coup-ukraine/
Posted by: vetinLA | Feb 25 2022 16:29 utc | 9
Posted by: Beltway bandit | Feb 25 2022 16:15 utc | 6
Re Iraq and Afghanistan
There was a youth bulge in Afghanistan and Iraq (5 children per woman), unlike them there a few young people in Ukraine (1,2 children per woman), since the country is undergoing demographic crisis. Also it is doubtful that Russia will move into the more nationalist Western Ukraine regions, it will probably take the russian speaking regions.
Posted by: Passer by | Feb 25 2022 16:29 utc | 10
Another Link to Wikileaks US”>https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-join-democratic-countries-sanctions-russia-2022-02-25/”>US lapdog Twaiwan announces to sanction Russia. TW chip manufacturer TSMC says it will comply with all export control rules.
Chinese FM spokesperson responds: TW is simply an attention-seeker.
Posted by: lulu | Feb 25 2022 16:30 utc | 11
@albertde #3
Quite true.
Just like the existence of Azov, Pravy Sektor and Svoboda doesn’t mean all Ukrainians are Nazi sympathizers.
Posted by: c1ue | Feb 25 2022 16:31 utc | 12
Grieved | Feb 25 2022 4:25 utc | 276 [in previous Ukraine thread]:
My apologies for mistaking the speech you were referring to, Grieved!
However, I’ll stick to my guns as to which one I would give the accolade, simply because I am much taken by the philosophy behind Putin’s concern for Ukraine’s historical shifts and additions. Therein he assigns the current differences east and west to how, after tzardom, new leadership did not take into account the will of the peoples involved but decisions were made due to the desires of those in power to retain that power. That is the foundational problem, and the speech two days later that you were praising is, as you say, concerned about the here and now, building on the speech before. I did read it and was happy that elements of it matched my own comment made after I read the first speech.
But both are wonderful and ought to be read, must be read and considered conjointly!
Posted by: juliania | Feb 25 2022 16:33 utc | 13
The most recent report on Indian Punchline suggests that there may be new negotiations starting between the Russians and Zelensky that might actually allow them to cooperate, assuming the Russians can effectively “deNazify” Ukraine.
If the Russians can maintain their focus, achieve their stated goals, and then withdraw, I think it’s quite likely they will be, to use a phrase from the very early stage of the US’s Iraq War, “be greeted as liberators”.
https://www.indianpunchline.com/ukraines-hybrid-war-is-mutating/
Posted by: Fnord13 | Feb 25 2022 16:34 utc | 14
Zbigniew Brzeziński: “It is sometimes argued that widening NATO will mean drawing new lines through Europe. But if one doesn’t widen NATO, it means perpetuating an old line through Europe, and a very artificial line at that, the historical relevance of which has come to an end with the end of the Cold War.”
The scenario I had laid out of the Ukraine gambit is being realized. Ukraine as a country has been sacrificed. That was the gambit. There were three objectives of this gambit. The first one was to drown all the good news coming out of the Beijing Olympics. This was largely defeated by Russia’s timing. Although not a blockbuster, the Olympics were largely successful in portraying China in a favorable light.
The second objective of stopping Nord Stream 2 is at least partially successful as the project is on hold. The third objective of kicking off Russia from SWIFT (or equivalent sanctions) is likely to be achieved also.
The Americans must be happy that their attack plan worked almost exactly as envisaged. The Russians had to choose between sanctions that were inevitable anyway, and security. They have chosen security. It is the right choice and they too must be happy that their counterattack worked as planned. The only unhappy people are the Ukrainians whose future has been ritually slaughtered on the altar of the Church of the Hegemon.
The Cold War was about the three major economies of the time, where two ganged up on one and defeated it. US + EU were clearly superior to the USSR. (Japan and SE Asia were either subjugated or irrelevant.) But with the rise of China, now there are four major economies.
Cold War 2.0 could have been between US + EU + Russia against China. That is what Henry Kissinger wanted and Donald Trump complied. Or it could be between US + EU against Russia + China. That is what Brzeziński’s followers want, as Russia and Germany together would mean the end of the dominance of the two isolated islands, Britain and the US.
Biden is firmly in the Brzeziński camp and has decided that it will be US + EU (i.e., “free” economies) against Russia + China (i.e., “authoritarian” regimes). The Ukraine gambit was to separate Russia from Germany. This makes Russia and China allies of necessity. Biden firmly believes that “freedom” will win. This decision is probably the most important decision of this century so far.
It is now time for the new Iron Bamboo Curtain to descend. Unlike the old Cold War, this is not two versus one, but two versus two. The side that offers a better quality of life (not necessarily “freedom”) for its citizens will win, just like last time. China will likely recognize the facts on the ground in Ukraine and then plan to militarily settle its border with India next year along the same principles, before moving on to Taiwan.
It has been argued that we are heading towards multipolarity. No, we are not. Multipolarity is inherently unstable. We are heading toward a new bipolarity. Countries will now have to choose which side they belong to.
Turkey will have to decide whether it wants to be part of NATO or ally with Russia and China. Under its secular army, it is likely to stay with NATO, regardless of what Tayyip Erdoğan wants.
India is likely to break its military equipment ties with Russia and join the US Quad. Pakistan will remain in the China camp, as after the Afghanistan débâcle, it has been ignored by the US.
Iran would likely come out of isolation with the signing of the new nuclear agreement as the West needs Persian gas in the absence of Russian gas. Iran would want to sell its fossil fuels to the West but remain with Russia + China.
The Arab World is likely to remain with the US + EU and continue recycling petrodollars. Israel has no options other than US + EU.
SE Asia has a difficult choice to make, but will likely choose China in the end.
We live in interesting times.
Posted by: Tiger | Feb 25 2022 16:35 utc | 15
Ukrainian army crumbling (surrending without a fight), leaders packing up (some have already fled).
American “intelligence” suffers from cognitive dysfunction: years announcing the “imminent Russian invasion”. And now, when hysterical they shout ”it started, it started, it started” they were wrong again: it is already over!
Posted by: António | Feb 25 2022 16:37 utc | 17
China’s Xinhua news agency journalist recorded his driving from Minsk to Kiev on Feb. 24th
– Nobody on the Ukrainian border side;
– Nobody at the shop where he wanted to buy telephoncard;
– Ukrainian soliders guarded the road and searched the car;
– Saw a bridge was blown up.
Posted by: lulu | Feb 25 2022 16:40 utc | 19
Hmm…my post is about Ukraine and not about Ukraine…
However, a statement by a Twitter spokesperson is likely to cause alarm amongst free speech advocates.
“We took enforcement action on a number of accounts in error,” the statement said, adding, “We’ve been proactively monitoring for emerging narratives that are violative of our policies.”
The use of the term “emerging narratives” suggests that Twitter will begin censoring certain perspectives on the conflict in the context of their policy on “misinformation.”
I clipped the above from a ZH article.
Another reason not to use Twitter,
unless of course you are of the authoritarian/totalitarian set.
Posted by: librul | Feb 25 2022 16:42 utc | 20
@thermobarbaric | Feb 25 2022 16:14 utc | 5
Last night Ukraine reported twice that they had conquered the airport. This morning Russia reported that its troops coming from the border had reached the airport. So it is no longer a surrounded enclave and out of danger of being conquered.
https://southfront.org/russian-airborne-assault-force-holding-airport-near-kiev-for-24-hours-unblocked/
Most worrying is the situation is Mariupol. Lots of Azov guys who prevent the population from fleeing, want to blow up some factories and keep the local population hostage.
Posted by: Wim | Feb 25 2022 16:43 utc | 21
My answer to the much discussed “why now” question:
1 The intensified schelling on Donbass restarted monday.
2 The groups in ukranian fatigues (not necessarily ukraninan) crossing the border into Russia proper.
3 Zelenskys nuclear comment. Not because of the weapon in it self (they take a long time to make), but because it showed there was no point in talking to the guy.
And yes, I was surprised. Not by the move in it self, I stated in a comment a day or two erlier that things were looking grim, but by the intensity, the scope and the speed.
Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Feb 25 2022 16:46 utc | 22
Cui bono from the West’s repeated efforts to antagonize Russia into war?
My answer would be…wait for it…China. Now, Russia has no place to go but China. Only one supplier and only one customer, but not so China, just Russia. Cui bono from that relationship?
Notice too…all the virulent Russia antagonists in the USA…senators/congressmen/think-tankers/presidential-advisors and the president himself, not to mention former Presidents and first ladies receive substantial funds from China. Cui bono when the largest nation on earth is forced into a shotgun marriage with the strongest economy? I think we know the answer to that?
Getting the USA to goad Russia into war might well have been the most successful psych-op of all time..performed by the Chinese upon the USA/Britain. And…the USA/Britain’s 3LAs are so full of themselves they could never reverse their incompetence, much less own it. The CCP must be laughing hard at Langley’s ineffectual bumbling. And we know it’s Langley being hoodwinked because, all of it’s mouthpieces in the USA’s media are singing from the same hymnbook…in perfect harmony. It’s the signature, the tell if you will, of the “deep state”.
Cui bono; Not Russia, not the USA, not Europe…ask yourselves…Cui bono…who?
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 25 2022 16:46 utc | 23
Today’s Global Times editorial provides a different take on the event that is pointed at Taiwan and other nations of the Global South who think they can gain something by allying with an Outlaw:
“As for Ukraine, which Washington uses as a pawn, in addition to reiterating that the US wouldn’t send troops there, Washington only simply said it ‘will support the Ukrainian people as they defend their country,’ and ‘will provide humanitarian relief to ease their suffering.’ Washington has once again displayed its selfishness and hypocrisy to the world. People have seen that after the US pushed Ukraine into the fire, it stood aside, pretending to care about the country and saying ‘I support you, keep fighting!’
“It is fair to say the evolution of the situation in Ukraine until today is a geopolitical tragedy. From the very beginning, it’s a bitter result of the US’ strategic selfishness and shortsightedness. As early as 1998 when the US Senate approved NATO’s eastward expansion plan, the late senior US diplomat George Kennan had foreseen today’s tragedy. He said then, ‘This expansion would make the Founding Fathers of this country turn over in their graves.’
“However, the arrogant American elites always think they can profit from crises. For years, the US has incited conflicts, manipulated the situations from offshore and reaped benefits. It is accustomed to be the one who adds the fuel to the fire without paying any cost. What it wants is to realize its instant interests. The US shows no consideration for the suffering of the locals pushed into the forefront. When there is a real crisis, the so-called commitments it initially made will only become empty diplomatic rhetoric. Those politicians don’t care about the suffering of local people at all, but attempt to attract attention under the guise of ‘humanitarianism’….
“The US often talks about humanity, justice and morality, but what it really does is calculating interests. Washington’s strategic selfishness and hypocrisy have been laid bare again and again in international political practices. Reports indicate that at least 37 million people have been displaced in and from Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, the Philippines, Libya and Syria as a direct result of the wars fought by the US since September 11, 2001. There is even a saying that wherever the US ‘intervenes,’ conflicts, chaos and terrorism will appear….
“For countries and regions that still have fantasies or act as pawns of the US, the Ukraine crisis is a good reminder: A “partner” who announces ‘good news’ when you are in difficulties is untrustworthy.”
Was it a trap?
Posted by: Joe | Feb 25 2022 15:53 utc | 2
No. Had something similar taken place in 2014 after the Maidan/coup, yes, that would have been a trap. Because Russia wasn’t ready, and the West was.
So, Russia got ready, and the West?
For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven.
Posted by: juliania | Feb 25 2022 16:49 utc | 25
Facebook plays it part.
“FACEBOOK WILL TEMPORARILY allow its billions of users to praise the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian neo-Nazi military unit previously banned from being freely discussed under the company’s Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy, The Intercept has learned.”
“The policy shift, made this week, is pegged to the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine and preceding military escalations. The Azov Battalion, which functions as an armed wing of the broader Ukrainian white nationalist Azov movement, began as a volunteer anti-Russia militia before formally joining the Ukrainian National Guard in 2014; the regiment is known for its hardcore right-wing ultranationalism and the neo-Nazi ideology pervasive among its members. Though it has in recent years downplayed its neo-Nazi sympathies, the group’s affinities are not subtle: Azov soldiers march and train wearing uniforms bearing icons of the Third Reich; its leadership has reportedly courted American alt-right and neo-Nazi elements; and in 2010, the battalion’s first commander and a former Ukrainian parliamentarian, Andriy Biletsky, stated that Ukraine’s national purpose was to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade.”
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 25 2022 16:51 utc | 27
I always found it curious that NATO is OTAN for the French.
But consider that an ambulance may be marked ecnalubma,
so that someone looking in their vehicle’s rearview mirror
can read it.
NATO/OTAN was always ready to be history, that is,
ready to be in the rearview mirror of history.
Is it coming? NATO
or
Is it going? OTAN
Posted by: librul | Feb 25 2022 16:52 utc | 28
Some Chinese netizens dig out an old BBC video clips from 2019, in which a young HK protestor was moved to tears, saying she wishes Hong Kong would get the “same good ending” as Ukraine after watching the Euromaidan documentary made by CIA/MI6 .
Posted by: lulu | Feb 25 2022 16:55 utc | 29
A detailed report Jon Rappoport did in 2009, on highly dangerous chemicals stored around Ukraine.
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2022/02/25/alert-ukraine-chemical-time-bomb-warning-to-putin-and-the-ukraine-military/
Posted by: Nancy | Feb 25 2022 16:56 utc | 30
This is how Western/NATO support Ukraine in time of need:)
Posted by: lulu | Feb 25 2022 16:59 utc | 31
Karlof1 @ 24: Excellent post, reality expressed much better than I could…….
Posted by: vetinLA | Feb 25 2022 17:00 utc | 32
Here’s all you need to know about Biden and Ukraine
Biden Says He Spends Longer Periods On Phone With Poroshenko Than With His Own Wife – unian.info
Note this is BEFORE Hunter Biden laptop or Trump as POTUS.
Posted by: c1ue | Feb 25 2022 17:00 utc | 33
Posted by: Tiger | Feb 25 2022 16:35 utc | 15
“Ukraine as a country has been sacrificed.”
No it hasn’t. So nothing you are saying makes sense.
Posted by: juliania | Feb 25 2022 17:03 utc | 34
Is Zelensky on drugs? Citizens throw molotovs to tanks? Stand in the way or armoured vehicles??
Your pathetic administration failed. Your army is getting crushed. So now we need a bloodbath???
Russia better hurry and take the major cities in next 2 or 3 days or this is gonna get ugly for them.
Posted by: comandante | Feb 25 2022 17:07 utc | 35
I’m hearing reports that Zelensky is willing to discuss neutrality with Russia on the one hand, and on the other hand that he’s calling for European mercenaries to flock to his country’s aid.
Which is it? Why the dual reports? What is really going on in Kiev?
Posted by: WJ | Feb 25 2022 17:07 utc | 36
Tiger @15–
Curious analysis. I suggest you look deeper into the current geoeconomic relationships that underly the current Geopolitical situation. What’s been emerging over the past 5 years is the Eurasian Economic Bloc with its market of almost half the planet’s population that includes some erstwhile Outlaw US Empire allies–Japan, South Korea, Philippines, Thailand, Australia, and New Zealand. India was never an ally, so it’s not included. So as you see, this isn’t merely one economy versus two. There really isn’t any competition here as the EU is completely dependent on the Eurasian Bloc–including Russia. The same goes for the Outlaw US Empire, Canada and UK. I suggest you consult the geoeconomic expert Glenn Diesen’s works to learn more. IMO, it’s easier to analyze what’s occurring now as the continuation of a Cold War that never ended in 1991, which as Putin’s several recent speeches show is Russia’s POV and the actual reality of what transpired, not the fantasyland crap from Neoliberalcon “academics.” And I highly suggest getting and reading the third edition of Dr. Hudson’s Super Imperialism to learn how we got here.
RE: WJ | Feb 25 2022 17:07 utc
Almost all western politicos, ANALysts, anchors, personalities, etc. are saying different things out of different sides of their mouths all the time.
Posted by: William Haught | Feb 25 2022 17:19 utc | 38
Ukrainian government buildings and personnel will be a treasure trove for Russian intelligence. So much dirt going on in cahoots with NATO and the EU.
So many Ukrainians want to cover their asses in case of criminal proceedings against the perpetrators of the coup, the Odessa massacre, MH17, etc.
Azov Battalion/Pravy Sektor members, oligarchs, corrupt politicians, their friends, family and associates are sweating bullets.
I am sure many backers of the Kiev regime are in damage control mode.
MH17 was shot down by the Ukrainian army. There was decision by the Dutch government to blame it on Russia. Of course, you won’t find it in the public records. Contacts between the Ukrainian and Dutch governments/intelligence, Bellingcat and other bought and paid for “investigative journalists” like OCCRP, the public prosecutor, law enforcement and various international partners will be VERY damaging to the Dutch government. I am sure Ukrainians have made backups as get-out-of-jail-free cards and there are those who prefer talking to a long stint in the Russian prison system.
The collapse of Ukraine is imminent. The most vile elements will be cleansed, Ukraine will get some kind of neutral status, it will pose no military threat to anyone and Ukrainians will live like Palestinians. The border will be redrawn. New Ukraine will have no direct access to the Black Sea. The international community has to recognize Crimea as part of the Russian Federation.
The 2014 coup was a failure. Decades of machinations by NATO and the EU undone in a couple of days.
Those pesky Russians!
Posted by: Peter | Feb 25 2022 17:21 utc | 39
@Tiger #15
I disagree with most of your points.
The scenario I had laid out of the Ukraine gambit is being realized. Ukraine as a country has been sacrificed. That was the gambit. There were three objectives of this gambit. The first one was to drown all the good news coming out of the Beijing Olympics. This was largely defeated by Russia’s timing. Although not a blockbuster, the Olympics were largely successful in portraying China in a favorable light.
Categorically wrong. All the yakety, during the Olympics, came from the US.
The Olympics ended 2/20; Russia recognized Donetsk/Luhansk on 2/22.
The second objective of stopping Nord Stream 2 is at least partially successful as the project is on hold.
Also wrong. NS2 was already on “certification hold” despite being functionally complete last year. All Scholz has done is formalize the delay.
The third objective of kicking off Russia from SWIFT (or equivalent sanctions) is likely to be achieved also.
Categorically wrong also. Scholz has explicitly said that Russia should not be cut off from SWIFT right now. The sanctions declared also do not impact the EU’s ability to pay for Russian energy. I put up 2 different posts on this in the Day 1 thread.
The Americans must be happy that their attack plan worked almost exactly as envisaged. The Russians had to choose between sanctions that were inevitable anyway, and security. They have chosen security. It is the right choice and they too must be happy that their counterattack worked as planned. The only unhappy people are the Ukrainians whose future has been ritually slaughtered on the altar of the Church of the Hegemon.
The Americans are happy that they have been shown to be impotent?
The Americans are happy that the “US training” and “US weapons” have led to a complete collapse of the Ukrainian military in 2 days – on par with the collapse of the Afghanistan government after US withdrawal?
The Americans are happy that they have been dancing to Russia’s tune for the entire time this year?
Ok.
The Cold War was about the three major economies of the time, where two ganged up on one and defeated it. US + EU were clearly superior to the USSR. (Japan and SE Asia were either subjugated or irrelevant.) But with the rise of China, now there are four major economies.
The least inaccurate so far – except for the little detail that Japan was the 2nd largest economy in the world before the creation of the EU.
Cold War 2.0 could have been between US + EU + Russia against China. That is what Henry Kissinger wanted and Donald Trump complied. Or it could be between US + EU against Russia + China. That is what Brzeziński’s followers want, as Russia and Germany together would mean the end of the dominance of the two isolated islands, Britain and the US.
Your description of Kissinger is correct, but your description of Brzeziński is not. Brzeziński wanted the US and China against Russia because he’s Polish.
Biden is firmly in the Brzeziński camp and has decided that it will be US + EU (i.e., “free” economies) against Russia + China (i.e., “authoritarian” regimes). The Ukraine gambit was to separate Russia from Germany. This makes Russia and China allies of necessity. Biden firmly believes that “freedom” will win. This decision is probably the most important decision of this century so far.
As you were wrong about Brzeziński’s views, so is the above wrong. Biden has shown ZERO belligerence against China to date.
It is now time for the new Iron Bamboo Curtain to descend. Unlike the old Cold War, this is not two versus one, but two versus two. The side that offers a better quality of life (not necessarily “freedom”) for its citizens will win, just like last time. China will likely recognize the facts on the ground in Ukraine and then plan to militarily settle its border with India next year along the same principles, before moving on to Taiwan.
Simplistic and wrong. It is far from clear that the EU or China are “pro Russia” or “pro US”.
The actions of both entities are far more accurately described as: “we want to be able to sell to both the US and Russia, and the buy what we need from both, and we will do the minimum necessary to accomplish this.” Japan also falls into this category.
Nor is it accurate to describe the overarching dynamic going on as I see it: the US desperately attempting to defend its global pre-eminence including the USD as reserve trade currency, the petrodollar, NATO, the larger Washington Consensus including IMF/World Bank, US military pre-eminence, etc.
Under this framework: Russia is deflating the NATO/US military pre-eminence bubble even as China is deflating the reserve trade currency bubble and Washington Consensus via its dominance of exports and its BRI program.
The “Russia-China alliance” is not a true ideological or social alliance but an artificial unity imposed by opposition to the US’ efforts.
Your analysis also fails to address:
1) Iran: Iran is a top oil producer and the most powerful nation in the Persian Gulf. Iran is also pushed into the “Russia China alliance” by US (and Israeli and Saudi) actions against it.
2) The EU: the EU, outside of Poland and the Baltics – has not kowtowed to US interests. Every sanctions deal has had gigantic loopholes to allow the EU to continue to sell its cars/handbags/etc to Russia and to buy Russian energy in return.
The Ukraine situation has been notable for the complete absence of German, French and Dutch support for Ukraine and the US position. Even the German “halting” of NS2 is notional since NS2 was not actually pumping any gas. If Germany was serious about supporting the US position, it would cancel NS1 and the 55 bcm/year that goes through it.
Posted by: c1ue | Feb 25 2022 17:21 utc | 40
https://www.rt.com/russia/550552-macron-call-putin-diplomacy/
If NATO countries insist on continuing the delivery of weapons to Ukraine, some kind of Rumpkaine after this week, then Russia will have to remove Ukraine entirely from the current world map. Address no longer exists, 404, return to sender.
Cheers, M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 25 2022 17:21 utc | 41
Ye of little faith, stop equating this Russian military operation with Iraq and Afghanistan, as this presumes that Putin is of the obtuse, narrow mindset of Bush jr., and mistakenly equates Putin with Brezhnev as the Empire’s hasbara propagandists do so profusely to undermine Putin’s intelligence in foreign policy, technogically-driven advancement and geopolitics. Bush had no plan and Brezhnev was ideologically driven into Afghanistan, without necessary risk assessment planning and goals, much like the case of LBJ and Nixon with Vietnam.
This military operation is very different. It appears wrt Ukraine that Putin has a plan years in the making that involves calculated risk based on a real existential threat to Russia’s security.
Posted by: Circe | Feb 25 2022 17:22 utc | 42
On the one hand, I believe Putin is doing excellent work against the West, but on the other, I see Putin’s involvement in WEF initiatives. Who stands to gain from all of this? This entire Russia-Ukraine war appears to be a continuation of the globalists’ plan to crash the economy, as well as a foreshadowing of further NWO.
Posted by: AB17 | Feb 25 2022 17:22 utc | 43
@35 WJ
What is going on with Ze is that he’s weak, flailing in the wind in all directions, and can’t be trusted.
Posted by: Circe | Feb 25 2022 17:26 utc | 44
@35 Zelensky is stuck. Common sense tells him that he must negotiate sooner or later. The Nazis tell him he’s dead if he does.
Posted by: dh | Feb 25 2022 17:27 utc | 45
In the 1980’s, the USSR blocked Western radio stations.
Today, the West blocks Russian web sites.
Posted by: Passerby | Feb 25 2022 17:27 utc | 46
RE: WJ | Feb 25 2022 17:07 utc
Almost all western politicos, ANALysts, anchors, personalities, etc. are saying different things out of different sides of their mouths all the time.
Posted by: William Haught | Feb 25 2022 17:19 utc | 37
Indeed. A vast outpouring of windbaggery. It beggars description.
Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 25 2022 17:30 utc | 47
nothing is going to be solved per se because of Russia’s actions. trying to tell people that is like telling those Trots over at wsws that the Civil War didn’t solve anything (“it ended legal slavery!” yeah, sure. thus the civil rights movement and the drug war and Jim Crow and the prison industrial complex. because the US civil war was just so awesome.)
However, why is it that people make a false equivalence between “Putin’s Nazi friends” and those of the West?
I am referring once again to Jeffrey St Clair at Counterpunch, who, re Putin, specializes in this kind of rubbish. It’s no defense of Putin or the Russian leadership to point out that they are not establishing Nazis in any government, whatever Putin’s personal relationship w/any evil bastard may (or may not) be, anywhere on this planet. Given what the West is and has been up to for generations now re Russia, they have the right of self-defense, the absolute right.
how can someone say Russia doesn’t have the absolute right to defend itself by de-Nazifying its neighbors? it’s not an endorsement of the Russian government or any particular action to assert they are unequivocally justified in kicking the dog shit out of the Western backed Nazis in Ukraine. people like St Clair need to get their heads out of their asses and stop wasting time pointing out that Putin is not a saint. Wow. Russia also has relations with the evil MbS of the Saudis? gee, thanks for that shocking bit of news.
moreover, if Russia puts a stop to western efforts to nazify Europe, isn’t that a good thing? Zelensky has stated his intent to bring nukes to Ukraine again. Shouldn’t everyone on the planet welcome attempts to go all Raygun Star Wars preemptively on Nazis with nukes by shooting that shit down before it even gets into a silo?
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 25 2022 17:35 utc | 48
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 25 2022 16:46 utc
Notice too…all the virulent Russia antagonists in the USA…senators/congressmen/think-tankers/presidential-advisors and the president himself, not to mention former Presidents and first ladies receive substantial funds from China. Cui bono when the largest nation on earth is forced into a shotgun marriage with the strongest economy? I think we know the answer to that?
Any evidence? Links? Campaign contributions? (I would think it is illegal, they would have to own them and various important institutions like the Israelis to possibly get away with it) Other non-campaign “support” (be it really bribes or not)?
Nothing would surprise me though, except corporatism or real capitalism with a human face.
Posted by: William Haught | Feb 25 2022 17:35 utc | 49
The US gambled that Russia would have to accept NATO within its bailiwick* and lost.
. . . *bailiwick: one’s sphere of operations or particular area of interest.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 25 2022 17:35 utc | 50
If this RT story is true, then it looks like Georgia has learned its lesson: Georgia won’t join West in sanctioning Russia over Ukraine
Georgia will not participate in economic and financial sanctions on Russia following Moscow’s full-scale assault against Ukraine, Prime Minister Irakli Garibashvili told the country’s media on Friday, citing national interests.
“During these years, among other issues, we have managed to de-escalate our tense relations with Russia, which was in line with Georgia’s national interests, and I will not make any decisions against them,” the PM said.
Posted by: Fran | Feb 25 2022 17:37 utc | 51
The west has donated a large amount of weapons to Russia
Russian MoD: Large Amount of Weapons Supplied by West to Ukraine Has Been Seized
The cache included American-made FGM-148 Javelin and British-made MBT NLAW anti-tank missiles, according to the Russian Ministry of Defense
The MIC celebrates, now they can sell more weapons all over again!
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 25 2022 17:37 utc | 52
excellent exchange of views between Tiger @15 and Juliania @33 and c1ue@ 39 ! very much appreciated. At first I thought Tiger made good points and observations, but Juliania and c1ue helped to sort it out.
Posted by: bystander 04 | Feb 25 2022 17:37 utc | 53
Perhaps its time for Russia to implement their own “Monroe Doctrine”,…
Any country bordering Russia must be excluded from Nato, neutral and demilitarized, i.e. not posses any heavy weaponry, nukes and bio weapon capabilities.
Posted by: Hannibal | Feb 25 2022 17:46 utc | 54
@ WJ | Feb 25 2022 17:07 utc | 35… because zelensky is between a rock and a hard place??
you see i am thinking that in order for ukraine to get back into russias orb, it is going to have to be more then just zelensky who sees the merits of this… ukraine has gone down this western, rah rah nato and the west viewpoint strongly since 2014… how are they going to get off that track and go onto one more friendly to russia? it seems to me a very difficult proposition… impossible? no, but difficult.. you can’t get people to conform to a way of thinking without an incentive… what is the incentive here? humiliation? i am playing devils advocate a wee bit here..
i haven’t had time to keep up with the threads… too many comments, and i have been busy with stuff..
Posted by: james | Feb 25 2022 17:48 utc | 55
Much has been written lately about a kindergarten on the Ukraine-controlled territory that was supposedly shelled by LDNR forces. It turned out that the shelling was staged, as the windows near the hole in the wall weren’t broken and there were no traces of any explosion inside.
Today, Ukrainian forces have hit a school in Gorlovka, DNR, with a 152 mm round, killing two teachers: 45-year-old deputy principal Elena Ivanova and 52-year-old geography teacher Elena Pavlovna (last name unpublished). At that moment, the teachers were preparing a new schedule, as the authorities have ordered all classes to be moved online a few days ago. Photos of the killed teacher (GRAPHIC).
Posted by: S | Feb 25 2022 17:49 utc | 56
vetinLA @31–
Thanks for your reply. It always helps to recall the Big Picture so events can be placed into their proper context. Some of that vital context is in my reply to Tiger @36. Outlaw US Empire’s global control as Dr. Hudson points out is based on its dollar hegemony and control of global financial levers based on the dollar. Nations wanting to become 100% sovereign have learned the hard way that they must dedollarize to attain that goal. The current battle against Russia is all about maintaining that control. It’s also why Russia won’t be cut from SWIFT unless the Empire wants further dedollarization. Just the current level of dedollarization combined with the irresponsible QE employed by the Fed has fueled domestic inflation to over 10% and rising. Unfortunately as I’ve reported on numerous occasions, dedollarizing isn’t as easy as it might appear given how settlement in long term contracts is arranged, the dollar being the most convenient because it’s arranged that way. This article from today explains that somewhat in Russia/China trade settlements. In their 4 Feb Joint Statement, China and Russia vowed to continue to dedollarize and to promote an independent global clearing mechanism free from control by the Outlaw US Empire that will likely be instituted within the Eurasian economic bloc and BRI development contracts. As Hudson points out in Super Imperialism, the reason the Outlaw US Empire controls the global financial system is that initially the world was too cowardly after WW1 to stand up for their rights, while after WW2, the Empire held all the marbles, although when it went off gold in 1971, the world refused again to act in its own interest by challenging its control. Those days are now gone as nations realize how much wealth they’ve lost in the process. The institutions of international finance and the primary global currency are going to be changed, the question being when more than how. Note that one of the primary targets of illegal Outlaw US Empire sanctions are banking and financial institutions, which tells us how much of a threat such a change represents.
i am also a bit concerned for zelenskys well being and life.. reminds me of procrustes bed…
Posted by: james | Feb 25 2022 17:51 utc | 58
Prospective talks on hold as Z out of contact acordibg to Moscow. Hope this can succeed against the odds somehow. People in Kiev terrified, hiding in basements and shelters, banks, atms not working, long lines at shops. Population that was at least inclined to be sympathetic to Russia turning decidedly against now. Electricity and water off in some outlying areas. The longer the operation lasts the harder it will be on the general population and make Russia’s objectives harder to achive…
Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 25 2022 17:52 utc | 59
Posted by: Peter | Feb 25 2022 17:21 utc
If the Banderites have power and Internet access, I bet there are lots of downloads of file wiping utilities from their IT systems and the file and tape shredders are working overtime.
Maybe they are trying to physically destroy hard drives, though I have found that to be easier said than done.
Posted by: William Haught | Feb 25 2022 17:52 utc | 60
c1ue #39
Complete collapse. Reports claim that the Russian troops are bogging down instead.
https://politicalwire.com/2022/02/25/russian-forces-have-lost-some-momentum/
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 25 2022 17:53 utc | 61
Obama’s prepping for SNL. . . former president Barack Obama has joined voices of the international community stating Russia’s attack is a “violation of international law” and the “basic principles of human decency” in a statement he released.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 25 2022 17:54 utc | 62
board,
anyone mind getting me up to speed on all this nazi business? links will do if not new composition. thank you in advance. I’m familiar with the neonazi accusation regarding US-installed elements in ukraine and also the azov battalion, but what exactly is it that these factions believe and want for ukraine? How do they relate to the ideology of NSDAP? Why did NATO favor them, since National Socialism is diametrically opposed to finance capitalism?
Posted by: reante | Feb 25 2022 17:57 utc | 63
Putin has encouraged the Ukraine Military to take over the Ukraine Government. Sound advice. And not the advice of someone out to destroy the military of Ukraine. One hopes the Ukraine Military announces temporary control of the Government to negotiate a Russian withdrawal and establish confidence toward stability. Putin is always incredibly accommodating to his foes, except when he’s not.
Posted by: gottlieb | Feb 25 2022 18:02 utc | 64
The Western media and Ukrainian government reporting on the number of casualties in Ukraine has until now only given combined civilian and military counts, and seem to have avoided giving a breakdown between civilian and military casualties.
After some hunting around, came across this:
“The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights said in a statement Friday that the U.N. Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine had received reports of at least 102 people injured, in addition to the 25 killed, as of midnight Thursday going into Friday.”
“Of those civilians killed or wounded, the U.N. human rights office said 23 were killed and 91 injured in government-controlled territory, including in the Donetsk, Cherkasy, Chernihiv, Kharkiv, Kherson and Luhansk regions.”
“In armed group-controlled territory, it said, two people were killed and 11 injured in Donetsk and Horlivka on Thursday.”
So 25 civilians killed: 23 in government-controlled territory and 2 in “armed group-controlled” territory.
There’s also a collection of estimates from Wikipropapedia:
The Ukrainian government combined figure is 137 killed (no breakdown provided between military and civilian.)
The UN figure for civilian casualties: 25 (including in Donetsk and Luhansk, and other eastern regions.)
The UK Ministry of Defense figures are all much higher, claiming 57 civilians killed out of 644 killed, and also claiming 450 Russian Armed Forces casualties.
I’m guessing the Zelensky regime, UK Ministry of “Defense” and Western “Mighty Wurlitzer” media want people to only get inflated combined numbers in order to fuel “invasion” outrage at this demilitarization operation.
Posted by: Canadian Cents | Feb 25 2022 18:03 utc | 65
Nazi ideology is based on fascim. Fascim is the fusion of the state with private capital. Our current system has a bit of that fusion, eg private censorship engourage and enforced by the state. Or private MSM who actually do propaganda for the state. Fascism and capitalism in its current form arent opposed, rather twins.
Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Feb 25 2022 18:04 utc | 66
@dh | Feb 25 2022 17:27 utc | 43
Zelensky is stuck. Common sense tells him that he must negotiate sooner or later. The Nazis tell him he’s dead if he does.
Zelensky is finished after the nuclear weapons stunt.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 25 2022 18:09 utc | 67
Ukrainian fascists, to whom ‘the collective West’ sympathizes so much, fired today at a school in Gorlovka. Two female teachers were killed right at their workplaces.
karlof1 @ 55,
“Nations wanting to become 100% sovereign have learned the hard way that they must dedollarize to attain that goal.”
nevermind not dollarizing in the first place lol.
right karlof1?
you can’t have your cake and eat it, too.
north korea has survived its near-autarky for what, sixty years now? without nuclear weapons.
Russia sold-out to petrodollar Globalism, so that it could be a maximalist nation. or, rather, so the globalists could maximize industrial profits. which makes Russia globalist.
Russia is only now decoupling because Globalism has run its course due to the planetary economic Limits to Growth having been reached 3-4 yrs ago. Until you acknowledge this statistical and structural fact, your body of work will lack circumspection. Circumspection is the first requirement of mature analysis.
Posted by: reante | Feb 25 2022 18:09 utc | 69
Posted by: Tiger | Feb 25 2022 16:35 utc | 15
You’re way off on this one:
India is likely to break its military equipment ties with Russia and join the US Quad. Pakistan will remain in the China camp, as after the Afghanistan débâcle, it has been ignored by the US.
India vies with China for Russia’s military-technological assistance as well as both being a major customer of Russian gas and oil.
Before India ever leaves Russia’s military-technological sphere they’ll have to wait for the maintenance contracts on their fleets of Russian hardware to expire – not any time soon.
They’ll also have to find other sources of hydrocarbons, and even if they do, reducing purchases of Russian gas will drop the price for China – an advantage the Indians are not likely to want to give China.
On the geopolitical front, leaving the Russian sphere of influence would leave Russia an even stronger partner of China, an advantage India would not want to yield to China, it’s rival.
And this one:
Iran would likely come out of isolation with the signing of the new nuclear agreement as the West needs Persian gas in the absence of Russian gas.
This is a non-starter. The Zionist lobby, israel-firsters and ‘israel’ has the last say in this and they are not about to remove the squeeze from Iran. They’d rather have the Europeans freeze to death.
Moreover, any reduction of pressure on Iran is going to result in a strengthening of Iranian positions in Lebanon, Yemen and Syria, something the USA, Turkey and it’s gulf allies will not allow.
So – that deal is never going to get signed. Period.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 25 2022 18:13 utc | 70
@Hannibal | Feb 25 2022 17:46 utc | 52
Perhaps its time for Russia to implement their own “Monroe Doctrine”,…
Any country bordering Russia must be excluded from Nato, neutral and demilitarized, i.e. not posses any heavy weaponry, nukes and bio weapon capabilities.
Excellent idea, Norway has a border with Russia. We don’t need NATO.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 25 2022 18:15 utc | 71
Hannibal | Feb 25 2022 17:46 utc | 52
Good grief man (or woman,) think about what you’re saying! The Monroe Doctrine, besides being too clever by half, has not resulted in widespread prosperity, freedom, happiness and joy for Central and South America. And when the US inevitably retreats to the safety of the western hemisphere I suspect the pent up frustration and cruelty already expressed during the “America Century” will pale in comparison to what lies in store for our neighbors to the south.
Posted by: vinnieoh | Feb 25 2022 18:19 utc | 72
Arne @ 64,
‘Nazi’ (a mass media perjorative wordplay on national socialism, meaning ‘idiot’) is not based on fascism, though your definition of fascism is correct.
The Third Reich was national socialist, which is why the leading political party was named NSDAP.
National Socialism, structurally, is a nation that controls its own money supply through its national treasury (nationalism), and highly-regulates the marketplace so as to both strengthen the national interests (nationalism) and minimize overt economic inequality (socialism) among it’s nationals. That is the template definition of national socialism.
Posted by: reante | Feb 25 2022 18:19 utc | 73
Putin begins selecting Ukraine’s new leadership:
As his troops moved to encircle Kyiv, Putin urged Ukraine’s armed forces to “take power into their own hands” and overthrow their government so they could strike a peace deal with Russia.
Chairing a meeting of Russia’s security council on Friday, the Russian president told Ukraine’s army it would be “easier for us to make a deal with you” than the politicians who had taken “the whole Ukrainian people hostage”.
That’s the signal, I suppose …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 25 2022 18:20 utc | 74
Posted by: Tiger | Feb 25 2022 16:35 utc | 15
I don’t know how anyone is going to choose US + EU with China clearly in the driver’s seat with regards to trade:
Visualizing Countries Grouped by Their Largest Trading Partner
Posted by: One Too Many | Feb 25 2022 18:25 utc | 75
As Russian troops moving forward and capturing more places, I hope they could preserve evidences and important pieces of information so that future generations have the opportunities to do investigation and conduct trials of crimes against humanity. Many of the sites could also be converted to historical sites and/or museums.
China was too poor and inexperience that they have lost many evidences of the past Japanese and Western crimes and aggression against them. History is being made in the next few days, and I hope Russia would not make the same mistake.
Posted by: d dan | Feb 25 2022 18:29 utc | 77
Arch Bungle #72
Putin’s asking the Ukrainian military to stab Zelensky in the back.
And why is it Putin who selects Ukraine’s new leadership? He says the current leadership has the Ukrainian people hostage, but won’t they stay hostages if someone else is selecting their leaders?
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 25 2022 18:29 utc | 78
Posted by: S | Feb 25 2022 17:49 utc | 54
The info battle is as ferocious and vicious as the terrible scenes that war unleashes. And unfortunately in that info battle the west is a true specialist and hyperpower. I live in a small town, today in short chats with day to day people Putin and Russia come up as comic book villains, of course it is not worth trying to get into details since a minimum awareness and knowledge is necessary for a rational discussion, folks don’t have the time or the need to go deep into the real issues, talking about your favorite soccer team or the latest small functionary corruption scandal is the norm, and if somehow you try to give a superficial asessment like it is the gringos who are at Russia’s door and not the other way around they look at you in awe, so it is better to leave it at that.
What’s true is that the longer the operation goes on the worse it is going to be for Russia, they need to finish it off quickly. The Gorlovka tragedy is the norm as explained by war journalists Poddubny, Gonzo, Kots and all, as soon as the Republics militias liberate a village the ukros on their way out use artillery and destroy whatever they can.
Posted by: Paco | Feb 25 2022 18:33 utc | 79
S in #76
soon as the Republics militias liberate a village the ukros on their way out use artillery and destroy whatever they can.
Well, that sounds like a comic book characterization of the “ukros” and even the militias as well.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 25 2022 18:39 utc | 80
Putin better pull a rabbit out of his hat. If Zelensky doesn’t surrender in the next 24 hours, this is going to get a lot more complicated. The US warhawks have set up Russia to get into a war with Ukraine. That is the outcome they wanted. Now it has happened, and if Putin cannot win it quick, he’s going to bleed all of Russia’s strength off.
Posted by: David Sant | Feb 25 2022 18:43 utc | 81
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 25 2022 18:29 utc | 75
Putin’s asking the Ukrainian military to stab Zelensky in the back.
No. He’s announcing a vacancy for some enterprising, competent and well positioned Ukrainian to step forward and take over the reigns of power from a fool who led his country down the toilet (either through action or inaction).
Assumedly one who won’t make the idiotic mistakes as the last one did and who will take a more “holistic” view of the regions security needs … *hint*.
And why is it Putin who selects Ukraine’s new leadership?
Because Putin (“Russia”) has a vote in Ukraine’s future elections whether the Ukrainians like it or not.
By making this first step along the process of selection, Putin is essentially saying:
“Your leaders are up to you, just make whoever you choose also takes Russia’s security interests into account… and here, I’ll help you along your way.”
Whether this is fair, or right is immaterial. It is the reality of the world we live in.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 25 2022 18:44 utc | 82
Meanwhile, outside of the US Embassy in Moscow..
https://twitter.com/colonelhomsi/status/1496900865365622792
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 25 2022 18:46 utc | 83
Well, if the reality of the world is not fair or right, shouldn’t we work to correct that unfairness and wrongness?
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 25 2022 18:47 utc | 84
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 25 2022 18:39 utc | 77
I back my words with this video, I dare you to show me a video where Russian troops bomb a village where there is nothing but a few old women. And I can see your colors right away so hello and good by.
https://t.me/sashakots/29120
Posted by: Paco | Feb 25 2022 18:47 utc | 85
Cont’d from #54
European media silent about murder of Donbass residents, says journalist Néant (RIA Novosti, February 25, 2022 — in Russian)
European TV channels are silent about the murder of civilians in Donbass, Donbass Insider journalist Christelle Néant, who also publishes her materials on the Reseaux International website, told RIA Novosti.
According to her, European central TV channels do not use her reports from Donbass because she always asks the locals who is shelling them and where yet another shell has come from.
“Of course, these channels don’t want to say it’s the Ukrainian army that is shelling civilians. They don’t want to know about it, and they don’t want to publish it,” said the journalist based in Donbass and previously listed by the infamous Ukrainian website Mirotvorets (Peacemaker).
When asked if there is censorship on European TV channels, Néant replied: “Of course, of course.”
“All these French and German Foreign Ministries, what did they do to make the Ukraine comply with the Minsk agreements? Nothing!” she stressed.
Néant believes that the Western media “is now hysterical about Russia’s invasion of the Ukraine.” “But all those eight years of the war here, where was their hysteria about all these civilians who died, like today? Where were they? They were silent for eight years. Now, when Ukraine is under fire, this is a scandal. It was not a scandal when they were civilians of Donbass. It’s not a scandal when teachers died at a school under shelling by the Ukrainian army. There are no positions here, no weapons, no soldiers, this is a school. This school was here before the war. They know what they are shelling. And thank God there were no children. If children were here today, what would it be? And the UN Secretary General, who says this is not a genocide. But, what is this, tell me? Just in shock,” Néant said.
…
Posted by: S | Feb 25 2022 18:52 utc | 86
albertde – yes,not everyone is a nazi type there. But the Azovs, the pravy sektors and the likes are so pesky,powerful and influential in the Ukraine that good ol’ kgb Putin thinks it highly advisable to eliminate them first and then ask the relevant questions.
William Haught 47;
Generally, the call for “show me the links” is a troll looking to get the responder blocked for posting too many links…on the off chance that this is not the case with you here’s a couple but, I won’t do dozens and get my account blocked:
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-administration-china-ties-reveal-deeper-disturbing-truth-opinion-1572589
https://nypost.com/article/hunter-biden-china-timeline-business-ties/
And BTW, the troll response has always been, “those aren’t credible sources…show me more” or “is that all you got”, to which I will reply, “get off your ass and take the time to do twenty seconds worth of research” resolving your ignorance of current events isn’t my job.
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 25 2022 18:52 utc | 88
Posted by: reante | Feb 25 2022 18:19 utc | 71
Lol, an actual fascist. Funny.
Even defending the second most ridiculous form of fascism, german fascism – the most ridiculous form is slavic fascism.
You know what happened to your forefathers. The same will happen to all your future strain of thought, except some of those that scurry away to the world’s end like the vermin they are.
There’s no place for you under the stars.
Posted by: Misotheist | Feb 25 2022 18:53 utc | 89
Posted by: David Sant | Feb 25 2022 18:43 utc | 78
Putin better pull a rabbit out of his hat. If Zelensky doesn’t surrender in the next 24 hours,
Why 24 hours, specifically?
I remember people saying the same during the Georgia 2008 war, which was a leisurely 12 days and went off quite well (for Russia) with the Americans and Europeans dutifully standing by until the Russians had done what they came to do.
As an aside: The similarity of this war with Georgia 2008 is amazing, there too: Two “baby republics” with a pro-Russia population, which could be coopted to into combat against the Georgian forces.
Which leads me to wonder how soon before this invasion turns into a civil war between Ukrainian factions (factions supported by the DPR, LPR on one side, what’s left on the other …)
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 25 2022 18:53 utc | 90
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 25 2022 18:47 utc | 84
shouldn’t we work to correct that unfairness and wrongness?
Absolutely. Once we’ve determined what “unfair” and “wrong” is …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 25 2022 18:54 utc | 92
Considered only from the standpoint of risk and strategy it looks like maybe Putin should have gone into Donbass and stopped there for now, which would have been a much lessor invasion he can argue is not an invasion with a straight face, and from that position argue for Ukraine to never join Nato. Which might have worked but that is assuming his goal has been only to keep Ukraine from Nato and stop the civil war in Donbass. If on the other hand his play is the first move to reabsorb the Baltics as well, which has credence based on what he said in his speeches, then the full scale invasion of Ukraine makes perfect sense. Everyone knows that Nato will not move in to support Ukraine (a non member) and so in the end Putin gets Ukraine and however much the west gnashes its teeth he is in there. However, what he has also done is he has strengthened a wavering alliance, greatly, and not only that, by his invasion surely proven that Nato’s move to the east was necessary and proper. So will he stop here? Or will he continue west, grab the Baltics and others? Even if Nato defends, Russia can probably win, a land war, at least as regards taking those countries (assuming nuclear weapons are not used, and tacticals may be).
So from a risk standpoint is his end game to neutralize Ukraine from Nato or is it to reabsorb the Baltics as well? I now think it may be the Baltics, the in for a penny, in for a pound approach. He can win the Baltics, certainly. If he is isolated, totally, he has fields for grain and food, plenty of energy, the Russians can survive. The Europeans cannot, because they need energy though they made be able to feed themselves. What about China? Right now China is backing Russia’s move. The US can deal with that if it wants to, by basically isolating China too. Just stop those factories. The US has energy, fields for food, is buffered by oceans, we can survive as can the Russians. Can China? Do they have enough energy? They can get it from Russia. Food? Gonna be hard.
This might all come down to which bloc (EU, Russia, China, US) is willing to tighten their belts and suffer it out the longest. The US and Europe will stay aligned and then Russia and China, and sad to say an ocean separates US and Europe unlike the Eurasian land mass conjunction of Russia and China.
I think we are going to go to a system of blocs, isolated and self sufficient, the opposite of globalization, and half the world will be essentially autocratic and the other half “democratic” but really rules by the PMC and billionaire families….
Buckle up.
Posted by: Boomheist | Feb 25 2022 19:02 utc | 93
Help wanted. Somebody posted a helpful list of Ukrainian politicians, nazis etc, a couple of days ago with details about their backgrounds. I’m trying to find it.
Posted by: dh | Feb 25 2022 19:04 utc | 94
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 25 2022 18:53 utc | 90
As an aside: The similarity of this war with Georgia 2008 is amazing, there too: Two “baby republics” with a pro-Russia population, which could be coopted to into combat against the Georgian forces.
Reply: Georgia had not been building up and digging in for 8 years and packed to the gills with weapons. Ukraine has a significant faction, maybe 30%, who pathologically hate Russia and some percentage of them are very likely to dig in and fight to the death. It doesn’t take many of those to turn this into a terrible fight of urban warfare which will destroy the cities being liberated.
Posted by: David Sant | Feb 25 2022 19:04 utc | 95
All the media reporting is now pure CNN.
The first casualty is truth and all that!
Posted by: Jpc | Feb 25 2022 19:04 utc | 96
good ol’ kgb Putin thinks it highly advisable to eliminate them first and then ask the relevant questions.
Posted by: aau | Feb 25 2022 18:52 utc | 87
Only mothers miss their nazis.
Posted by: Misotheist | Feb 25 2022 19:04 utc | 97
Does anyone believe that Zelensky is still in Ukraine? He is after all, an excellent actor. His “bunker” could be in Israel or London for all we know.
Posted by: David Sant | Feb 25 2022 19:08 utc | 98
re: Misotheist | Feb 25 2022 19:04 utc | 97
“Only mothers miss their nazis.”
love it! lol
Posted by: Perimetr | Feb 25 2022 19:08 utc | 99
If the reports of Bioweapon labs in Ukraine are true (and I believe they are), Putin need to publicize that.
Posted by: Beltway bandit | Feb 25 2022 16:15 utc | 6
There must be true. Now what their real purpose is, I don’t know.
This from the US embassy in Ukraine
“ The U.S. Department of Defense’s Biological Threat Reduction Program collaborates with partner countries to counter the threat of outbreaks (deliberate, accidental, or natural) of the world’s most dangerous infectious diseases. The program accomplishes its bio-threat reduction mission through development of a bio-risk management culture; international research partnerships; and partner capacity for enhanced bio-security, bio-safety, and bio-surveillance measures. The Biological Threat Reduction Program’s priorities in Ukraine are to consolidate and secure pathogens and toxins of security concern and to continue to ensure Ukraine can detect and report outbreaks caused by dangerous pathogens before they pose security or stability threats.
Current executive agents of the Biological Threat Reduction Program in Ukraine are the Ministry of Health, the State Service of Ukraine for Food Safety and Consumer Protection, the National Academy of Agrarian Sciences, and the Ministry of Defense.”
https://ua.usembassy.gov/embassy/kyiv/sections-offices/defense-threat-reduction-office/biological-threat-reduction-program/
Posted by: DG | Feb 25 2022 19:11 utc | 100