Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 10, 2022
The Russia-U.S. Talks In Geneva Are Likely To Fail

Like Scott Ritter I am deeply skeptical that today's talks between the U.S. and Russia in Geneva will have any results:

If ever a critical diplomatic negotiation was doomed to fail from the start, the discussions between the U.S. and Russia over Ukraine and Russian security guarantees is it.

The two sides can’t even agree on an agenda.

From the Russian perspective, the situation is clear: “The Russian side came here [to Geneva] with a clear position that contains a number of elements that, to my mind, are understandable and have been so clearly formulated—including at a high level—that deviating from our approaches simply is not possible,” Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told the press after a pre-meeting dinner on Sunday hosted by U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, who is leading the U.S. delegation.

All the U.S. has been willing to do, it seems, is to remind Russia of so-called “serious consequences” should Russia invade Ukraine, something the U.S. and NATO fear is imminent, given the scope and scale of recent Russian military exercises in the region involving tens of thousands of troops. This threat was made by Biden to Putin on several occasions, including a phone call initiated by Putin last week to help frame the upcoming talks.

The U.S. continues with its false claim that Russia is ready to invade the Ukraine:

In a move that has aggravated already tense relations between Washington and the Kremlin, Russia has mobilized more than 100,000 troops near its border with Ukraine. The United States has disclosed intelligence showing that Russia has a war plan envisioning an invasion force of 175,000 troops that Ukraine’s military, despite U.S.-provided equipment and training, would have little ability to stop.

On Friday, the NATO secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, warned that “the risk of conflict is real.”

There are no 100,000 Russian troops near its border with Ukraine. In early December U.S. intelligence claimed only 70,000 troops:

While Ukrainian assessments have said Russia has approximately 94,000 troops near the border, the U.S. map puts the number at 70,000 — but it predicts a buildup to as many as 175,000 and describes extensive movement of battalion tactical groups to and from the border “to obfuscate intentions and to create uncertainty.”

The extra 100,000 the U.S. intelligence mentioned were supposed to come from a Russian reservist force (BARS) which does not yet exist but is only planned for. The number is thus fake. The U.S. intelligence numbers were published on December 3. Three weeks later Russia announced that 10,000 of those 70,000 troops were removed:

Ten thousand Russian military servicemen are reportedly returning to their "permanent deployment points" from field training on the border with neighboring Ukraine, according to Interfax news, which quoted statements from the Russian military.

It means that there are currently only 60,000 troops in Russia's west mostly stationed in their normal quarters with some units undergoing rotational training as all military do.

The media also claims that Russia has threatened to attack the Ukraine. Russia has no plans to do that unless the Ukraine tries to attack its rebellious eastern provinces of Luhanzk and Donetzk. The Ukrainian leadership knows that it can not do that.

However the Russian security demands are serious. Either the U.S. and NATO retreat from their anti-Russian posture or Russia will take 'military-technical measures' to counter them.

These MAY(!) include a sudden and swift neutralization of Ukrainian military capabilities:

Russia will not get involved in a military misadventure in Ukraine that has the potential of dragging on and on, like the U.S. experience in Afghanistan and Iraq. Russia has studied an earlier U.S. military campaign—Operation Desert Storm, of Gulf War I—and has taken to heart the lessons of that conflict.

One does not need to occupy the territory of a foe in order to destroy it. A strategic air campaign designed to nullify specific aspects of a nations’ capability, whether it be economic, political, military, or all the above, coupled with a focused ground campaign designed to destroy an enemy’s army as opposed to occupy its territory, is the likely course of action.

Given the overwhelming supremacy Russia has both in terms of the ability to project air power backed by precision missile attacks, a strategic air campaign against Ukraine would accomplish in days what the U.S. took more than a month to do against Iraq in 1991.

My hunch is that Russia will not do even that but that the 'military-technical measures' it says it will take should the talks fail will create a new threat to the U.S. itself. A repeat of the Cuban missile crisis by other means.

The Cuban crisis led to the elimination of U.S. nuclear missiles stationed in Turkey and Italy and aimed at Moscow. A similar crisis today could likewise lead to a U.S. and NATO retreat from eastern Europe.

Russia has won real and hybrid wars in South Ossetia, Crimea, Syria, Armenia, Belarus and now in its soft underbelly Kazakhstan after those countries came under attack. Leaders of the last four countries, all multi-vector politicians who were trying to play with the 'west' and Russia, have found out that Russia is their best and only friend and have decisively moved into its camp:

Remember, the PSYOP narrative was that Putin is either stupid, or weak or sold out to the West, yet when we look at the “before and after” thingie, we see that while the West “almost” (or so they think) “got” Belarus, Armenia, Azerbaijan and, now, Kazakhstan, the reality is that in each case it appears that the narcissistic megalomaniacs running the West have confidently waltzed into a carefully laid Russian trap which, far from giving the Empire the control of the countries it “almost” acquired, made them lose them for the foreseeable future.

Russia has done this with little cost and to great effect. Meanwhile the U.S. and NATO have lost their wars, most recently in Afghanistan.

It is time for the U.S. and NATO to acknowledge that.

Comments

I do not believe for a second that the Russians will respond to a NATO brush-off by invading Ukraine.
Why would anyone do exactly what their opponents want them to do?
What Russia will do is to argue away in these joint talks until Wendy Sherman stands up and makes a serious mistake: she will spell out the unambiguous, set-in-stone, take-it-to-the-bank policy of the United States of America that all nations are free to seek alliances with anyone they want, and damn anyone else’s hurt feelings.
Spheres of influence? No such thing. Doesn’t exist. Are no excuse to invade another country.
National security concerns? Get over it, ya’ big baby. You can’t invade because you are nervous.
Not one inch further? Suck it up, Vlad. Everyone is free to move within a toenail of anyone else’s territory.
And then the Russians will say “Thank you” and announce that Cuba is going to host a squadron of Tu-160 bombers.
And Venezuela has agreed to the basing of Iskander missiles and Mig-31 launched Kinzhal hypersonic missiles.
Oh, yeah, and both have agreed to provide naval base facilities for Russian SSN submarines.
And…… the USA will go ape-shit. Utterly bananas. Blood-curdling threats that would make a sailor blush.
And…… the Russians will simply point to Wendy Sherman and say – quite correctly – that the USA’s own policy says that nobody should have the slightest problem with what they are doing. So bite me.
And they’ll have a point: the rules are the rules are the rules are the rules, and the USA has articulated those rules in no uncertain manner. Suck it up, Uncle Sam.
I mean, this is so obvious a next-move that I fail to understand that the USA *doesn’t* see the trap that it is walking into.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jan 11 2022 4:02 utc | 101

I am not a gambler.
But I learnt about “tells” from a b-rated movie with Jodie Foster and Mel Gibson.
Most barflies, along with the Saker crew, and several other sites, quickly tagged the emerging events in Kazakhstan as a witches brew with ingredients from NGOs/US state dept + CIA/Mi6/erdogan.
For me the biggest “tell” was not Putin calling it a color revolution.
The biggest “tell” is “Kazakhstan” has disappeared down a memory hole.
In less than a week.
Oh, there’s a few tears and sobs here and there across the complicit, controlled media….. but nothing like the full-throated “calls for democracy” with which we are usually assailed.
So far Kazakhstan says it has arrested 8000 violent terrorists.
The comms control by CSTO and Kazakhstan means the plotters have no idea as to how their assets have fared.
They are therefore keeping quite until they can be sure they can take control of the narrative. And they very much want the sheepies to go back to sleep and forget they were disturbed by any “kazakhstan” noise.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 11 2022 4:11 utc | 102

Ukraine Holds Provocative Drills Using US Missiles Near Separatist Area
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-launches-ultra-provocative-drills-using-us-missiles-near-separatist-area
Also on Wednesday, Ukraine’s Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Oleksiy Danilov revised numbers upward regarding Russian troop estimates Kiev believes are stationed near the border. He stated that 122,000 Russian troops remain within 200 km (124 miles) from Ukraine’s border.
“As regards the number of troops directly. Today, what we see is 122,000 located at a distance of 200 km and 143,500 soldiers of the Russian Federation are at a distance of 400 km in this radius from our border,” Danilov said.
The distance between Kharkov and Moscow is about 650 kilometers.

Posted by: ΚΓΨ | Jan 11 2022 4:15 utc | 103

Rob #58

FWIW, Craig Murray does not believe that the CIA had any involvement in the Kazakhstan uprising.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/01/what-kazakhstan-isnt/

FWIW… I’ll credit you one penny.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 11 2022 4:17 utc | 104

uncle tungsten
Murray, Assange, Snowden, Manning. All woke but still a bit of honesty that wokeness couldn’t bury. Assange paying the higest price but I guess somewhat niave in thinking a small south american country could protect him. A simple regime change was all it took for the angloshere to get hold of him. Manning, a gender change while in jail, perhaps he was that way inclined but being small would have no choice in the matter in an an american jail. Snowden – I read a bit of the stuff he wrote in his fist few years in Russia but now he is a Russian citizen. I guess reality knocked some of the wokeness out of him. Murray paid a price for his honesty though his nelsons woke blind eye is he views all other cultures as dictatorships.
That combination of woke yet a few areas of pragmatic honesty in what they saw about them…
What’s your thoughts on this?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 4:54 utc | 105

ΚΓΨ 103
From everything I have seen the US saying, a provocation that they believe is sure to get a Russian response is in the making. The Ukraine nazi’s are the cannon fodder and the ordinary Ukrainians are the human shields like that foolish jazz player that was roped in to take part in the ‘protests’ in Kazakhstan

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 5:03 utc | 106

@ jayc | Jan 11 2022 1:45 utc | 90… hey jayc.. i always enjoy your posts and find myself in agreement with you often times… its funny to see your speculation on germany being the one to break away from the fold here, because i have thought this myself…. thanks for sharing.. i see it much the same… when does it happen, or what does it take for it to happen? hard to know..

Posted by: james | Jan 11 2022 5:06 utc | 107

@ Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 4:54 utc | 105… i ain’t uncle tungsten, but i am curious where you are going with that post, not that i disagree with any of it… as for craig murray, a few of us have been saying the kazakhstan uprising seems more like m16 then cia… but i suspect they work together most of the time.. maybe less so here.

Posted by: james | Jan 11 2022 5:12 utc | 108

LW @ 85 said;”Our leadership is not stupid. They’re evil. They care nothing for the people of Russia, Europe, the United States or anywhere else. They arm Nazis, head choppers, and glorified potentates who torture children to death by starvation. They’re not stupid. They’re evil.”
And the U$A’s public, for the most part, is oblivious.
Yeah Right @ 101: Love to see that scenario play out.
M @ 102: Excellent observation, another wasted “stir the pot” attempt by our M$M..

Posted by: vetinLA | Jan 11 2022 5:13 utc | 109

Russia has to walk a delicate line, it has to protect itself and force NATO back, but imo the American Empire is not stable and rational enough to provoke by putting missles in Cuba again. Russia is basically dealing with a sociopath with nukes, you would hope the sociopath’s self interest would prevail but sociopaths are not known for impeccable judgement.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 11 2022 5:13 utc | 110

james 108
Nothing underhanded in it james. I simply haven’t been able to pick up what uncle tungstens opinion of murray is.
This realy is a shit world. I got a hell off a shock at craig murray’s response to me on crimea but now I can see his good side and blind side. A black and white world with many shades of gray between… That grey is the hardest thing to put in a box.
Anything I said in relation to the names above is not intended to be derogatory as they have all put out a huge amount of truthful information thgat was supposed to stay hidden.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 5:26 utc | 111

@110 pretzelattack …”the American Empire is not stable and rational enough to provoke by putting missles in Cuba again”
That’s part of the reason why I said the Russians should base some Tu-160 bombers in Cuba and put the missiles in Venezuela.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jan 11 2022 6:10 utc | 112

To assume Kazakhstan is over would be a mistake
At least 10,000 ME jihadists got helicopter/plane rides to N. Afghanistan. They joined at least 10,000 Ferghana valley locals and ?? others from China.
The 8000 dead so far is evidence to be used against the Gov and Russians of hate/war crimes and at least 10,000 others are there hiding in the southern non-Russian population to fan the western paid media blitz of revenge.
Russians there are vulnerable, and the local government led a 20 year pressure policy against them.
To think this will end quickly is delusion.
Formerly Les7
Now bearing the bartender approved

Posted by: BrainLes7 | Jan 11 2022 6:21 utc | 113

uncle tungsten
That post of mine at 105, please don’t take it as an attack on you. Rather in reading your posts on murray I haven’t been able to pick up on your opinion so put up my thoughts and asked about yours.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 6:22 utc | 114

B why dont you unblock some people who used to contribute much like VK , Gordog , RSH , JR and many more. I understand the reason to block them due to rule breaking but for some reason their contributions added more to the discussion. Not that they are 100% right but we the silent and lurkers in the bar can easily judge by ourselves if they are posting nonsense or not.
it is maddening to see obvious trolls like hoyeru still here while those old contributors are blocked forever. Release them from the block list for a while and you can block them again if they trample on your rules again.
I miss the old contributors of MoA

Posted by: mandalorian | Jan 11 2022 6:31 utc | 115

Les7
The 8000 dead so…
About 5000 arrested and no solidly confirmed numbers of dead but numbers seen are in the low hundreds rather than thousands. The kazaks have a good idea what happened and Russia is in, US and UK are out. The assorted stans around them and I think erdogan whose assets where poached and burned are also taking a hard look at who their allies are. US/UK kicked a home goal that may well have won the game on this one.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 6:35 utc | 116

That combination of woke yet a few areas of pragmatic honesty in what they saw about them…
What’s your thoughts on this?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 4:54 utc | 105
===
The Venn diagram of woke and liberal is a circle.

Posted by: too scents | Jan 11 2022 6:37 utc | 117

A valiant unit of Norwegians rises to attack, and the ancient rubber bands of their underwear give up.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 10 2022 18:52 utc | 41

Do Norwegian soldiers wear kilts?

Posted by: BM | Jan 11 2022 6:45 utc | 118

BM | 118

Do Norwegian soldiers wear kilts?

The dreaded Devils in Skirts!

Posted by: Kukulkan | Jan 11 2022 6:51 utc | 119

@116 Peter thanks for the correction, went back to search the reference and found 8000 detained. My bad.

Posted by: BrainLes7 | Jan 11 2022 6:57 utc | 120

@ peter au 111..
thanks… no problem with any of it… as i see it we all have blind spots, but it is always easier for others to see them in us or others.. the fact assange, manning, snowden and murray have all be singled out by powerful and malignant forces tells me they have an insight into the corruption and have to be silenced.. nothing is perfect though and they are capable of missing stuff.. i have disagreed with murray on some of his characterizations on russia, but generally i appreciate his work very much and have contributed to his site.. i think the reason assange has been vilified as much as he has, is he has done an incredible amount of work to upend the bullshit… mannings conbribution to wikileaks was also very helpful, so chelsea has had to be silenced as well.. as for snowden, i can’t get as clear a bead on him, but the fact he is still in russia suggests to me he has done valuable work as well.. i am most familiar with assange and murray though..

Posted by: james | Jan 11 2022 7:02 utc | 121

Wash your worries away worshiping at the temple of mammon or else be branded a conspiracy kook.

too scents | Jan 10 2022 17:53 utc | 33:
Not kook. Terrorist. As per FBI.

Even I could see that Zelensky is a nut and thinks he is what the world has been waiting for. I reckon the EU, US and others don’t know how to turn him off. HE will start something…

Stonebird | Jan 10 2022 18:24 utc | 39:
What’s so strange is that comedians are usually smarter. I take it Zelensky wasn’t that great of a comedian.

karlof1 | Jan 10 2022 21:45 utc | 69:
It’s easier to fool someone than convince them they’ve been fooled. IF Susan is the Lone Ranger in that group then she’s going to have a very difficult time overcoming their prejudices. I suppose if she slowly chipped away at it while walking on egg shells might work. Situations like this is amusing and frustrating at the same time.

Yeah, Right | Jan 11 2022 4:02 utc | 101: I would laugh my ass off if that was the result.

Posted by: Ian2 | Jan 11 2022 7:30 utc | 122

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 11 2022 4:11 utc | 102
So far Kazakhstan says it has arrested 8000 violent terrorists.
The comms control by CSTO and Kazakhstan means the plotters have no idea as to how their assets have fared.
They are therefore keeping quite until they can be sure they can take control of the narrative. And they very much want the sheepies to go back to sleep and forget they were disturbed by any “kazakhstan” noise.

IMO you have hit that one on the nose! Don’t know about the EU domain, but here in the USA I see no mention of Kazakhstan for the past few days–not in papers, on TV, radio, or even chatters at drinking holes. Sheepies are indeed still fast asleep.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jan 11 2022 7:37 utc | 123

Re: Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 10 2022 23:36 utc | 80
I would make one point.
Cunningham is wrong. Sergei Skripal was a BRITISH SPY, not a Russian spy.

Posted by: Julian | Jan 11 2022 7:43 utc | 124

@Grieved | Jan 11 2022 3:01 utc | 98
Thanks, you speak words of truth and provide inspiration

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 11 2022 8:31 utc | 125

‘FWIW, Craig Murray does not believe that the CIA had any involvement in the Kazakhstan uprising.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/01/what-kazakhstan-isnt/
Posted by: Rob | Jan 10 2022 20:53 utc | 58’
Or as he answers a question btl – ‘aha Greenmantle rides forth again! ‘
The pesky English Great Gamers have it in the blood, in bred as it is over generations, to expect that original pre-greater Ydion dream, the Mackinder World Island conquest as if it is a God Given right.
On the back of feeling ‘let down’ by Langley and WH, these aristo military family types and medieval Crown Servants were unable to conceal, at the betrayal by the BFF cousins in Washington, in the chaotic retreat from Afghanistan – there is truth in why and how this latest Colour, dressed Color, appears to have come about.
To embarrass and corner Biden and NeoLiberals to return to the Neocon status quo of forever war war not jaw jaw.
The Russians and Chinese leadership has made it as plain as daylight what they expect. In absolute plain english, so that the translations can not be deliberately confused, over the months, and indeed years.
The game plan, if it is a reprise of the Cuban Missile Crisis, would be to have the UN reinvigorated with real diplomats, real power, real negotiation, actual International Law abided by all parties for the future – or it falls to pieces and stops providing the absurd and grotesque fig leaf to the Nato powers and Imperial Dreamers who set it up. Just like they had set up the League of Nations – designed to side with the bullies; populated by place-men who fill their pockets and vote as directed.
This is not about Ukraine. Or about Russia resisting Nato. It is not about pointless Pax America bases that are pandemic across the world! That is down for the nations which are infected by them as parasites feeding off their GDP , to tell them to kindly LEAVE.
YANKEES GO HOME!
The unipolar Empire is dead Dead DEAD.
it is just being a ghost that haunts around refusing to let humanity progress by haunting its little princes who haven’t realised it yet.
Long live the first and only Multipolar Human Empire.
Or the 9/10ths of humanity as we in the ‘west’ are led into the Great Divide and Wall to keep us enclaved in our Aryan certitudes of Eurocentric History and Culture as the only valid plan for humanity!
They need a Road Map that actually means something and some actual great grown ups who can carry it forward – not Sir BiggusDickusBlair.
What’s Mutti up to? She must be rested & have some spare time now…

Posted by: D.G. | Jan 11 2022 9:07 utc | 126

– Mr Minister, you keep telling me that you have no intention of invading Ukraine. If someone came up to me and said, for example, “Hello, my name is Joe Schickmus III Jr. and I am innocent” , I would have reasons to think it’s very suspicious, wouldn’t I?
– Mr. Secretary of State… (Breathing deeply) Mr. Secretary of State… (A long silence) Good. So here it is: we intend to invade Ukraine.
– I’ve got you! You’re caught! You tell me that you intend to invade Ukraine, to make me think that you do not intend to invade Ukraine! So this is the proof! If you say that, it means that you actually intend to invade Ukraine!

Posted by: Leuk | Jan 11 2022 9:42 utc | 127

@BM | Jan 11 2022 6:45 utc | 118

Do Norwegian soldiers wear kilts?

As a former Norwegian soldier I speak with authority on this issue. There is an untranslatable joke about soldier underwear, but at least a photo exists. It isn’t a kilt, but you might sometimes be excused for believing it is.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 11 2022 10:18 utc | 128

US would like to bog Russia down in Ukraine.
Russia does not like that idea, genuinely.
Russia would like Ukraine to stand up and be a country rather than a meat wall – proxy for master.
Russian response will not be the expected – will be politacally unpalitable. I think this is why Blinken has nervous look.

Posted by: jared | Jan 11 2022 10:45 utc | 129

Russian response will not be the expected
Posted by: jared | Jan 11 2022 10:45 utc | 129
===
Expect Russia to respond against its aggressor’s weakness while it defends against its strengths.
The West’s financial situation is particularly weak, as illustrated in the current Barrons cover ==> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIkJzyhXwAIMaKq?format=jpg&name=small

Posted by: too scents | Jan 11 2022 10:56 utc | 130

@ too scents | 130
Russia has been playing that line for some time now. And as former z/h used to discuss: When hedgemon becomes threatened (by loss of strength or by another rising) it becomes dangerous. Something akin Thucydides Trap. But now is matter of battle planning – Russia can pick time, place and means. The talks are a formality.
He has appealled to the Ukraines for reason, as brothers. This situation benefits the leaders of Ukraine perhaps but not the people.

Posted by: jared | Jan 11 2022 11:16 utc | 131

He has appealled to the Ukraines for reason, as brothers. This situation benefits the leaders of Ukraine perhaps but not the people.
Posted by: jared | Jan 11 2022 11:16 utc | 131
===
Ukraine is less than the rain shaken off an umbrella when one steps inside.

Posted by: too scents | Jan 11 2022 11:41 utc | 132

wtf did the Cuban missile crisis have to do with a reinvigorated UN. it was a crisis between great powers, based on one of those powers (the US) even then violating international law and causing the other to respond, just as now. there was no vibrant international law (the UN Secretary General had probably been whacked a couple of years earlier, and I will believe to the end that the US was behind that). There was just the US Empire, still strutting from its victories in WW2, at the height of its power, again bullying or trying to bully Russia (the USSR at the time). after the pointless excursion into risking world war 3, the 2 sides quietly negotiated the withdrawal of the US missiles in Turkey. something which could and should have been done without putting civilization at risk.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 11 2022 12:00 utc | 133

He has appealled to the Ukraines for reason, as brothers. This situation benefits the leaders of Ukraine perhaps but not the people.
Posted by: jared | Jan 11 2022 11:16 utc | 131
I tried to interpret “He” as the last male mentioned before that sentence. As there is only one, mistake is not possible: Thucydites! Alas, all his efforts were in vain, Ukrainians in charge of the government do not understand Ancient Greek, and have scant interest in reading the translations. Then again, Blinken himself looks like a guy who read Peloponessian War, answered properly all questions on the quiz and promptly forgot it all. [spell checker seems ignorant as well]

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 11 2022 12:09 utc | 134

Russia will respond to Ukrainian attack on Donbas by destroying Nazi units in Ukrainian army and helping DPR and LPR to seize a buffer zone along length of Ukraine/Russia border, that keeps US/NATO away from Russia’s borders.
The real action will start the day Finland which has a friendship treaty with Soviet Union/Russia renounces neutrality and applies to join NATO. Membership of NATO is opposed by a plurality of Finns “5 Dec 2021 — Currently, 50% of Finns oppose NATO membership while 25% support it”, and does any government have the right to ignore the democratic will of the people.
Finlandization has worked for everyone including Finland but not Washington and NATO diehards so why break it if it ain’t broken. Soviet Union returned leased land to Finland almost 40 years early and Yeltsin even tried to return some of Karelia to Finland. Finland is better off being neutral. There won’t be a war but maybe we’ll see a photogenic Russian ambassador to Finland handing out cookies on the streets of Helsinki, actually he/she should start doing it now. Finland gets most of its natural gas and petrol from Russia so expect Washington to start pushing its “energy independence” narrative for Finland.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jan 11 2022 12:28 utc | 135

“The Russia-U.S. Talks In Geneva Are Likely To Fail”
Evaluation is a function of purpose, and purpose a function of facility.
We-the-people-hold-these-truths-to-be-self-evidentness and binary thinking is a limiter of purpose and evaluation.
Hence the lateral question to pose is not who won or cui bono, but was the facility and outcome fit for purpose.

Posted by: NotEuclid | Jan 11 2022 12:31 utc | 136

My thoughts on the Cold War 1.0 and 2.0
Washington likes to claim it won Cold War 1.0 by breaking up Soviet Union because of war in Afghanistan. I’d state the Washington lost the Cold War before it even started just as Soviet Union ensured defeat of Japan even before World War 2 started.
Japan first.
Soviet Union defeated Japanese 6th Army at the Battles of Khalkhin Gul which ended the IJAs Go North strategy to obtain natural resources from Soviet Union’s Far East but empowered IJNs Go South strategy to attack Pearl Harbor and acquire natural resources in Asia. It also scared Japan into not supporting/joining Hitler in his war on the Soviet Union, allowing Soviet Union to release v. valuable winterized reinforcements for defence of Moscow totally changing outcome of the war. Attack on Pearl Harbor persuaded Hitler to declare war on United States, which must rank as the dumbest political move ever.
Cold War 1.0
Russia launched its Manchurian Operation (called Operation August Storm by D.M.Glantz) in August 1945 as agreed with the other allies at Yalta to liberate Manchuria from Japanese and scare Japanese into surrendering to Americans. It also gave Soviet Union total control of Manchuria and Korea north of the 38th parallel. Soviet Union removed Japanese factories from Manchuria as war reparations and handed Manchuria over to CCP giving CCP strategic depth to defeat KMT in Chinese Civil War. The day CCP defeated KMT was the day that Washington lost Cold War which hadn’t even started.
Cold War 2.0
This is nothing really to do with Cold War 1.0 because that was about communism but Cold War 2.0 is all about crude geopolitical power and Washington is losing it. Russia’s job is to keep Washington distracted from China while China focuses on economic growth which will be what probably ends Washington’s reign as hegemon.
Iraq and Afghanistan showed that Washington is prepared to use war for regime change against govts. it doesn’t like or which oppose it. Furthermore, failure to leave Iraq when requested to do so demonstrates that United States is far more prepared to play “unwanted guest” than Russia. US withdrawal from Afghanistan shows that when the going gets tough, the “tough” go home. Russian intervention in Syria shows that it is prepared to successfully support govts. that ask for its help.
Who is the audience for all this theatre? I’m guessing the Gulf states which are probably starting to realize that their continued survival is more likely to be assured by Moscow than Washington. Also Moscow because it’s an gas/petrol exporter itself is less likely to demand price cuts that take away the GCC’s hard earned money.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jan 11 2022 13:11 utc | 137

@ too scents | 132
That anger is exploited by the people behind the proxy movement.
There is some bad history, but we start from today.
The US is in the midst of color revolution as well – they exploit aspects of human behavior, we break the cycle when use our intellect and look past the poxy antagonizer.
Z is less than puppet – he is clown puppet, Russia is offering real friendship and dialog. Well Z will be a rich man but will he have a good life?
Russia will strive to achieve its objectives with minimizing bloodshed and cost – much to frustration of the west.
@ Piotor | 134
I used “he” as in Putin, however this was an error borne of my tired and lazy brain. It irks me that many use Putin = Russia.

Posted by: jared | Jan 11 2022 13:14 utc | 138

@ Piotr | 134
Continued…
That should have been “Piotr”, sorry.

Posted by: jared | Jan 11 2022 13:17 utc | 139

both cold war 1 and cold war 2 were about the US empire trying to kneecap rivals, the fact that the USSR was communist and today’s Russia isnt makes no difference.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 11 2022 13:43 utc | 140

@ Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 11 2022 12:00 utc | 133
During the CMC the platform at the UN being widely televised was where the world and politicians got to hear the arguments.
There were no hot lines or internet – it WAS the forum that mattered. Like Kruschev banging his shoe !
Now days not a single debate or even speech by the so called senior leaders is even reported .
Either the World has such a institution where all nations and Peoples get equal rights or the now corrupt body carries on covering up Exceptionalism and supporting ever changing Rules based Orders by the bully boys of the West.
The Time has been called on that. Very clearly by Xi last month.
The Empire is fucking Dead it just refuses to lay down and be buried.

Posted by: D.G. | Jan 11 2022 14:34 utc | 141

Was it any real surprise this flare up in another Stan happen right before the talks between Russia and US /NATO. NATO kicked off the rebellions in the hope they would succeed and force Russia to back down – exact opposite happen. Russia just didn’t contain the mess, they actually stopped it, so now US can’t threaten so much and had to actually listen to Russia. Russia once again proved they practiced real diplomacy.
What I can’t figure out just exactly who are the people dumb enough to believe the siren song of the West they they can have ‘money for nothing and chicks for free’? Why did they think they were going to succeed?? Where in the heck do the likes of CIA, MI6, etc, etc. find these people and what kinds of whoppers do they have to say to get people to come along? True amazing!

Posted by: Drsmith | Jan 11 2022 14:54 utc | 142

US speaks with forked tongue (of course) — from the recent meeting:
Russia: “We underscore that for us, it’s absolutely mandatory to make sure that Ukraine, never, never ever becomes member of NATO.”
US: “We were firm, however, in pushing back on security proposals that are simply non-starters for the United States. We will not allow anyone to slam closed NATO’s open-door policy, which has always been central to the NATO alliance.”
But on the other hand Washington has insisted that it is not negotiating either on behalf of NATO allies or on behalf of Ukraine. This has come as a result of pressure from European capitals, as well as the EU, which are insisting on asserting a greater role and are no longer willing to trust the U.S. to manage their security affairs.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 11 2022 15:29 utc | 143

@142 Lots of free stuff at the mall if you’re quick….
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/looted-everything-counting-cost-kazakh-060005097.html

Posted by: dh | Jan 11 2022 15:47 utc | 144

. . .asymmetric warfare . . .coming to a country near you
. . .from TheDrive:

An undersea fiberoptic cable located between mainland Norway and the Svalbard archipelago in the Arctic Ocean has been put out of action in a still-mysterious incident. The outage on the subsea communications cable — the furthest north of its kind anywhere in the world — follows an incident last year in which different cables linking an undersea surveillance network off the Norwegian coast were severed. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 11 2022 17:00 utc | 145

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 11 2022 17:00 utc | 145
We discussed the same news item before, I do not remember who posted it. Sperm whales have a habit of dredging soft ocean bottom for critters that bury there, and it was recorded that they can rip cables in the process. They are big, strong and toothy, and when they encounter resistance, they may be very energetic. Alas, cable piece was apparently too hard to chew, so it was dropped. At times, sperm whales were getting entangled with fatal consequences, but luckily, nothing so bad happened.
The same articles discusses how Russians were blamed for malfunctioning of GPS which is also a natural phenomenon at high altitudes where “visibility” of satellites is sparser (the orbit optimized for habitable regions further from the poles) and magnetic storms are frequent (hence, polar lights). Shortages of underwear are not the most acute vulnerability of NATO forces in Arctic.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 11 2022 17:53 utc | 146

I guess, Arctic is at high latitudes, not altitudes or platitudes. ButI will check later.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 11 2022 17:56 utc | 147

Grieved @98–
Yes I did ask for additional input and you did very well, thank you! The scenario Crooke relates isn’t new as it repeats England’s extermination and expulsion of what it deemed to be excess population created by Enclosure that was a big factor in starting the English Civil War and resulting Regicide. I also see a tie-in with the panic that was caused during the 1890s when the Frontier was declared closed. The idea also confirms the longtime falsification of unemployment and work force size within the Outlaw US Empire–current official unemployment is 4.3%, while Shadowstats says it remains @25%. IMO, Crooke’s essay deserves to be given the same treatment I gave to Diesen’s op/ed about the promotion of Fascism by the Outlaw US Empire. With luck, I’ll have something readable by late tomorrow.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 18:03 utc | 148

Ghost Ship @137–
That’s an excellent view that I’ve never read but seems very viable. The overly European focus on 1939 as WW2’s opening year misses much of importance that happened earlier. My opinion has always held that WW2 began with Japan’s invasion of China in 1931.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 18:20 utc | 149

http://en.people.cn/n3/2022/0111/c90000-9943005.html
Commentary in today’s People’s Daily. The article quoted Ryabkov: “We do not trust the other side,” he stated. “We need ironclad, waterproof, bulletproof, legally binding guarantees – not assurances, not safeguards.”
So, apparently Sherman gave verbal assurances and lip services. Ryabkov said BS! We don’t trust you. We want something concrete.
Ryabkov is sounding as firm and demanding as anyone can get. He sounded in tones that leaves the impression that Russia wants to put the Empire in a situation that they cannot comply. Therefore, the Empire either surrenders, or there will be military solutions.
Interesting times indeed!!!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jan 11 2022 18:25 utc | 150

So far, I though that the challenge of AI was to reach the level of “mental acuity” of a cretin. But I must admit that this field progresses rapidly. For example, when you watch something on YouTube, an AI finds other videos that you could be interested in, and increasingly, it does a good job.
Watched: “Blinken warns Russia”. Proposed: “Who were Neanderthals”.
Watched: “Energy problems in Ukraine”. Proposed: “The largest train wrecks”.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 11 2022 19:04 utc | 151

Oriental Voice “He sounded in tones that leaves the impression that Russia wants to put the Empire in a situation that they cannot comply.”
I think it’s not so much that Russia wants to put the US in that position, rather US has deliberately put itself in that position. Sort of like Napoleon and Hitler putting themselves in a bad position by attacking Russia.
Russia wants US to back off – create a buffer zone around its land borders – before the US deploy hypersonic missiles. If the US back off they will lose face which will loosen their grip on the vassal states…

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 19:19 utc | 152

@Peter AU1, #152
You’re right the Empire put itself in the situation of a dire strait. This ain’t the first time either. Vietnam was the first glaring exhibit of western incompetence, but since then there have been many. More recently Bush fumbled badly in Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama showed he had no clue in Pivot to Asia, in Syria, Trump became the laughing stock in trade war with China. These clans seemed to have no deep appreciations of potential consequences of their own actions. They will stumble again in the face-off with Russia, I have no doubt.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jan 11 2022 21:30 utc | 153

Interesting the juxtaposition of situations in Ukraine and Khazakstan.
Khazakstan was on a path of establish friendly relations with what I will call “all” parties.
Will that now be more difficult for them, I wonder.
And China offering assistance in Khazakstan – that may test relations with Russia a bit.

Posted by: jared | Jan 11 2022 21:46 utc | 154

Peter AU1 @152–
Agree, the Outlaw US Empire has painted itself into a corner. In the Ritter essay b cites up top, there are two paragraphs that spell out the situation:
“Ryabkov has alluded to a fact already made clear by the Russians—there will be no compromise when it comes to Russia’s legitimate national security interests. And if the U.S. cannot understand how the accumulation of military power encompassed in a military alliance which views Russia as a singular, existential threat to its members’ security is seen by Russia as threatening, then there is no comprehension of how the events of June 22, 1941 have shaped the present -day Russian psyche, why Russia will never again allow such a situation to occur, and why the talks are doomed before they even begin.”
And:
“Sherman will face off against Ryabkov in Geneva, with the fate of Europe in her hands. The sad thing is, she doesn’t see it that way. Thanks to Biden, Blinken and the host of Russophobes who populate the U.S. national security state today, Sherman thinks she is there to simply communicate the consequences of diplomatic failure to Russia. To threaten. With mere words.”
In other words:
“What Sherman, Biden, Blinken, and the others have yet to comprehend is that Russia has already weighed the consequences and is apparently willing to accept them. And respond. With action.
“One wonders if Sherman, Biden, Blinken, and the others have thought this through. Odds are, they have not, and the consequences for Europe will be dire.”
As I wrote at Saker’s, since the Kazakh events didn’t scare those hiding behind the Executive enough, IMO the next step will be a demonstration of a new weapon that NATO has absolutely no defense for, that causes “conventional” damage almost immediately after it’s trigger is pulled–a laser/energy pulse type of weapon that can “bend” its trajectory to conform to Earth’s curvature: a modern version of Greek Fire. Prime the weapon, select the coordinates, pull the trigger, and seconds later the target–Cheyanne Mountain where NORAD’s buried in Colorado, for example–is hit and afire but no radioactive fallout’s generated. IMO, that would scare the shit out of the Neoliberal bandits running the Executive and they would humbly agree to Russia’s demands. Of course, the weapon needn’t be too SciFi; but apparently, hypersonics aren’t scary enough even when they can target you in your bathroom, so the next example must invoke fear.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 21:55 utc | 155

jared @154–
What you and your kin fail to understand is China and Russia are joined at the hip on almost everything as they communicate daily and are completely insync when it comes to policy dealing with the Outlaw US Empire and its Terrorist Foreign Legion. If you took the time to read the transcript from yesterday’s CSTO meeting and also read China’s offer of assistance to Kazakhstan, you’d see that China is ready to offer solutions to the “internal problems” that contributed to the mistaken civilian aid rendered to the Terrorists. That offer also extends to CSTO’s other Central Asian members.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 22:04 utc | 156

karlof1
It would be interesting to know what systems Russia is holding up its sleeve, especially in regards to their physics breakthrough which Putin and the deputy defence minister have mentioned.
What happens when US does not give Russia its security guarantees? Putin spoke of reciprocal threat, so my thought is US, or more so, US leadership will be placed under visible military threat for a period. Next step? A military slap in the face or a knockout blow? Putin believes if a fight is inevitable to strike first.
The Russians may see it differently but my thought is US would respond to a military slap in the face rather than backing off.
But then Putin is just as capable as Sun Tzu and Clausewitz of writing a book on war so it will be interesting to see what happens next.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 22:38 utc | 157

re: legitimate national security interests — what is it?
It’s important to realize that the US is not interested in “national defense” by a “Department of Defense” as we understand it. The US has Canada on one side, Mexico on the other side, and fish on the other two sides. None are a security threat to the US.
What the US is concerned with defending is its worldwide interests, its influences. It is stated in the 2018 National Defense Strategy:

The costs of not implementing this strategy are clear. Failure to meet our defense objectives will result in decreasing U.S. global influence, eroding cohesion among allies and partners, and reduced access to markets that will contribute to a decline in our prosperity and standard of living. . .here

Other countries are interested in national defense, national security. The US is different. It is primarily interested in maintaining its global influence. If that means destroying a few hundred cities and killing/injuring/displacing millions of people than so be it.
Other countries respond to this situation in various ways. Most countries buckle under and accept the US world primacy. A few countries, for a long time, have not. Cuba and Iran come to mind. Still other countries are grappling with the problem, as Russia is doing now. What to do? Russia wants cooperation and peace and prosperity. The US wants total influence over every country, especially the important ones, including Russia. What to do?
The US conducted regime change in Ukraine in the hopes that it would cripple Russia including grabbing Russia’s only warm-water naval port, and sustain US influence in that part of the world. The US was only partly successful, and it will not give up until it is wholly successful. That differs from what Russia’s interests are, of course. There will be no compromise when it comes to Russia’s legitimate national security interests, as Ritter says. Warfare is the only solution to this problem as it stands.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 0:03 utc | 158

Don Bacon @158–
Warfare as the only solution, but only after exhausting all other avenues as Russia’s now doing. The only way to change the Outlaw US Empire’s “security philosophy” is to directly threaten the homeland in a manner it isn’t at present as you describe. The recent agreement to not target each other with nukes was good but only applied to that type of weapon. Russia has other weapons that directly and gravely threaten the physical USA, but it appears those running the show don’t appreciate that fact and thus have yet to consider altering their security philosophy. That’s why in my example @155 I placed the target in the middle of the continent, not in Europe.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 0:42 utc | 159

@155 karlof1 The article by Ritter is very good.
Basically, the current understanding of the two parties in the talks is this:
1) The Russians know what they can do, and they know what the USA is capable of doing in response, and they have thoroughly gamed out all conceivable scenarios. They know what they are doing.
2) Anthony Blinken and Wendy Sherman have spent the last few months standing around in the Foggy Bottom team room sipping on Kool Aid and laughing about how much fun it will be to browbeat those annoying little Russians. Neither has the faintest idea what is really happening, and wouldn’t care even if they did.
Shit’s gonna get real, real soon, and those two clowns are going to be the last two on Earth to comprehend what they have done.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jan 12 2022 1:30 utc | 160

. . .from WP today

Russia may halt security talks with the United States unless Washington swiftly accepts its demand that Ukraine and Georgia not be allowed to join NATO, the Kremlin spokesman warned, saying Moscow would soon decided whether there was “any sense” in continuing.
Dmitry Peskov said there was little reason for optimism ahead of a NATO-Russia Council meeting in Brussels on Wednesday to discuss the crisis. U.S. and Russian officials met Monday to seek a peaceful solution to tensions over Russia’s massing of troops near Ukraine and its demands that Kyiv be blocked from NATO, but the talks ended without progress. . .here

damned straight . . .get it on

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 1:42 utc | 161

@ Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 22:38 utc | 157 who wrote

…Putin spoke of reciprocal threat, so my thought is US, or more so, US leadership will be placed under visible military threat for a period.

Thanks for that with which I agree. Park some subs on a rotating basis within the same range from US/UK/etc power centers as the NATO bases that are/have been constructed. If they are outside the 200 mile limit there is little empire can do but call its navy home from trying to project empire elsewhere to protect its power centers.
I wonder how it will be announced? As the result of these failed negotiations?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 12 2022 2:18 utc | 162

And Peter AU1,
I also am sorry to read of your life of health problems and thank you for your contributions to the MoA bar

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 12 2022 2:22 utc | 163

The claim that Russia is occupying Ukrainia is just stupid. First build Nord Stream 2, then fill both strings with gas and then attack Ukraine? Who would come up with something like that? As a German, I am experiencing the hick-hack over this supply line, which is vital for us Europeans, at first hand.
Unfortunately, with Annalena Baerbock, we now have a foreign minister who is engaged in mentored thinking. Supervised by Washington. Taking away her cheat sheet is tantamount to a lobotomy. And that’s why Nord Stream 2 would be guaranteed to go straight to the dustbin of history if the Russians were so rude as to invade Ukraine.
And as if that were not enough, they would have a fascist-infested shithole on their hands. They would have to feed the people there, supply them with gas, etc. They could not give a greater gift to the warmongers in Washington. That’s why I predict: Russia will continue to hold its hand over the people in the Donbass…and that’s it.
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Posted by: Josch | Jan 12 2022 3:18 utc | 164

psychohistorian
For the visible threat, I had thought about those tupolovs with their massive counter rotating turboprops floating in lazy circles just outside US airspace 24/7 and surface ships – at what distance? US has never ratified UNCLOS into US law so whatever claims it makes are not part of international law. But Putin is an original thinker so whatever happens will be interesting and will take the US by surprise.
On this there always is the chance US has secretly agreed to Russian terms on the condition it is not made public which may take several months to become apparent though I only see that as a very remote possibility.
As to my health issues, I will be making a final decision as to which way I go towards the end of this month. I would very much like to see the outcome of what is occurring now in the geopolitical sphere. My experiences with doctors from an early age is, I think, one of the major reasons I have always questioned so called experts especially so if what they are saying just doesn’t ring right.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 3:23 utc | 165

psychohistorian | Jan 12 2022 2:18 utc | 162
“Park some subs on a rotating basis within the same range from US/UK/etc power centers as the NATO bases that are/have been constructed. If they are outside the 200 mile limit there is little empire can do but call its navy home from trying to project empire elsewhere to protect its power centers.”
Parking subs is nothing new and would not be a significant threat. The USA assumes that they are there already. The same with US subs near Russia.
Also, the 200 mile limit is just the economic zone. The real territorial limit is only 12 nautical miles.
A more elegant solution is to set up oil rig type platforms on the US continental shelf just offshore of Maryland and fully equip them with hyper-sonic batteries and S-500’s. That would fit more with what Putin said in that he would put the same threat against the decision makers as is against Moscow.

Posted by: JustAnotherAussie | Jan 12 2022 3:31 utc | 166

fyi
“…The chance of Ukraine being granted full NATO membership in the near future – or even an action plan for membership – are slim, said retired vice-admiral Bob Davidson, Canada’s former military representative at NATO.
‘You’d be hard-pressed to find any of the nations come out and say they’re reluctant’ to admit Ukraine, he said. ‘I think publicly they will all make optimistic and positive statements about a possible Ukrainian accession to the alliance.
‘But behind closed doors, I think, the general sense of reluctance stems from the worry that NATO would be importing conflict were it to allow either Georgia or Ukraine to join.’ The Kremlin has denied it intends to invade Ukraine…”
Ukraine’s alliances are not a ‘bargaining chip’ in talks with Russia, country’s deputy PM says
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ukraine-russia-nato-putin-stefanishyna-zelensky-1.6310279

Posted by: John Gilberts | Jan 12 2022 3:40 utc | 167

Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 3:23 utc | 165
“My experiences with doctors from an early age is, I think, one of the major reasons I have always questioned so called experts especially so if what they are saying just doesn’t ring right.”
Hi Peter. I have nowhere near the same health difficulties as you, but in my personal dealing with doctors, I have found them to be well educated idiots, with a rare exception or two.
For acute situations and emergencies, doctors do well. With chronic conditions, they seem to fair worse than an actual witch doctor. They do not listen, they never think outside the box and they do not pay any attention to what the patient has discovered about themselves and their illness.
One thing that I keep in mind which keeps me sane where medical issues are concerned is that the body does its best to remedy all illnesses. If you can survive long enough, you may well wake up one day with a recovery underway with no input from you or from your doc.
I think many times, people become well in spite of their doctors treatments, not because of them.

Posted by: JustAnotherAussie | Jan 12 2022 4:04 utc | 168

. . .from State, Jan 11

Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman met with ambassadors from the EU’s Political and Security Committee today in Brussels to discuss Russia’s unprovoked military build-up along Ukraine’s border and to provide a readout of the U.S.-Russia Strategic Stability Dialogue, which was held yesterday in Geneva. The meeting underscored the U.S. commitment to work closely with the EU and its member states to address this urgent challenge together. They affirmed the United States’ and EU’s unwavering support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. The Deputy Secretary thanked the Committee for their work to ensure any further Russian military invasion of Ukraine would result in severe costs, including coordinated economic measures, for the Russian Federation. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 4:25 utc | 169

…from NYT, Dec 8, 2021
U.S. Threat to Squeeze Russia’s Economy Is a Tactic With a Mixed Record
Sanctions, like aiming to cut oil exports, could also hurt European allies. “It’s a limited toolbox,” one expert said.

. . .Whether harsher measures would persuade Russia to stay out of Ukraine, however, is far from clear. Historically, economic sanctions have a decidedly mixed track record, with more failures than successes. And actions that would take the biggest bite out of the Russian economy — like trying to severely curb oil exports — would also be hard on America’s allies in Europe. . .here

Hurting European allies is a ‘so what’ to the US, as in past sanctions on Iran and Russia.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 4:33 utc | 170

JustAnotherAussie

but in my personal dealing with doctors, I have found them to be well educated idiots, with a rare exception or two.
For acute situations and emergencies, doctors do well. With chronic conditions, they seem to fair worse than an actual witch doctor. They do not listen, they never think outside the box and they do not pay any attention to what the patient has discovered about themselves and their illness.

That is near the exact wording I use when talking to family and friends. Won’t say more than that in this thread as it is very much off topic, though much of what I have been through is I think very relevant to the covid thread. Much appreciate your comment.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 4:56 utc | 171

Peter AU1 #105
What’s your thoughts on this?
Assange by far put a nail in the kneecap of empire, Manning helped and is a hero.
Craig Murray knows a thing or two about the Stan neighbourhood and is a libertarian thinker and currently supports good causes and irritates the bejesus out of the UK establishment. Murrray will not be calling out the CIA for self preservation sake. Outing the stooge scotts premier nearly got him killed and that was close enough for his liking.
Snowden is a moral man and leaked some excellent material we had a right to know of. If he was anywhere in the west he would be dead.
There is no UKUSA justice, it is a masquerade of mendacity.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 12 2022 5:50 utc | 172

Peter AU1 #116

About 5000 arrested and no solidly confirmed numbers of dead but numbers seen are in the low hundreds rather than thousands. The kazaks have a good idea what happened and Russia is in, US and UK are out. The assorted stans around them and I think erdogan whose assets where poached and burned are also taking a hard look at who their allies are. US/UK kicked a home goal that may well have won the game on this one.

What happened in Kazakhstan was an act of war or you might consider it an attack by hostile states.
It is not over yet on the Kazakhstan front.
I expect there will be an urgent motion soon before the UN Security Council or even distributed to every UN member with a package of evidence and a solid accusation against certain state collaborators coinciding with the placing of a censure motion on the agenda.
This is the beginning of the end of the pretence of ‘the rules based order’game. I expect that the United Nations will be asked to censure the sponsors of this act of war. Standing up for the outlawing of colour revolutions and the affirming of the right of self determination is the way to go IMO.
We should not accept that this outlaw enterprise and its sponsors should be given a pass or conceded as ‘business as usual’. IMO this is the age of push back and Russia’s recent epistle to the dippy fools of the west is but a first shot across the bow. I expect it will be eye to eye and shouting at the UN.
After all the naked thievery of the UKUSA when it comes to the gold or coin held in trust by many nations is a mighty disturbing additional cause for major alienation from the west. That particular crime against nations has yet to be unpacked and could become a serious global financial issue should any one of those nations direct the transfer their currently hostage deposit to China or Russia and they were to accept it. This is a time where we could see any number of novel diplomatic configurations that would instantly escalate tensions or dramatically challenge the lazy conventional thinking of the west.
Can you accept that Afghanistan people are starving and the NATO/USA have taken their sovereign wealth hostage? We are not living in the 1600’s.
IMO there will be an escalating drip feed of exposure as the Kazakhstan court proceedings ensue. Expect western wailing.
(BTW I did not ignore or take offence at your #105, I have been carousing in the orchard. Its summer and the bugs are like NATO encroachment.)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 12 2022 6:20 utc | 173

uncle tungsten 172
Thanks for that reply. After james interjected I was worried about how my question would come across. For me it seems that sometime in the last decade or two, libertarian and green merged into woke. Their contribution in putting up documented evidence of especially the anglo empires hypocrisy and crimes against other, and their own people can never be forgotten. But it is not a black and white world.
I read stuff they have written of their personal views. For me it is up to various countries to sort out their own system of governance according to their own culture or cultures and not judge them by my own culture.
Overall they are very much the old style hero’s as they stood up for what they believed, very much right vs wrong but some of their personal beliefs I don’t think are correct in a world of many cultures. Assange Manning and Snowden have all made Huge sacrifices. Murray like Armstrong has been threatened but there is a big difference in the way Murray looks at other cultures and the way Armstrong looks at other cultures.
This stuff really came to my attention on Murray’s reply to me about Crimea and it was quite a shock at the time.
Very much the world is not black and white rather there are various shades of grey. Getting documented evidence out to the public of our various governments hypocrisy vs personal views that coincide with color revolution propaganda.
For me, the good far far outweighs the bad but I don’t take their personal views on a number of issues as gospel.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 6:32 utc | 174

Don Bacon #169
That is all those idiots at the USA State Department are capable of. Chanting the mantra and snorting the incense. It is always, Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine. Just wait till they get a missile up their rs in Georgia or a bill from Kazakhstan for an act of insurrection against a nation and its people.
Russia can let the Ukrainian Nazi Government wobble around for years yet. It just has to see to the safety of the Eastern free states of Ukraine and its people.
If Russia needs to exercise its aggression chakra, there is Idlib and that also jabs the Turkish hooker snogging President in the nose without offending NATO but driving them berserk. Mind you I don’t think Russia needs do this but it would be timely and would amplify the pressure Erdy is under from his abject failure to quell the Kurdish terrorists.
If that isn’t enough it will now simultaneously ensure the Stan states are safe from colour revolutions. We might even see some entertaining NED terrorist/spy cases emerge. There is going to be a clean house manouver there IMO. Consider: Russia AND China could host a Yemen Peace Initiative. Or a major Africa development strategy under the motherly eye of the UN.
There is no need for anyone in the world to slavishly follow the UKUSA state delirium.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 12 2022 6:39 utc | 175

uncle tungsten
Your second post appeared after I had posted my reply to your first. Much relieved that you did not take offence.
That is a very interesting scenario. I like others think Russian intel is most likely the best in the world. On top of what comes out in court, and there will be singing birds, there may well be phone calls such as fuck the EU or some interesting emails.
Very interesting times uncle tungsten.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 6:46 utc | 176

Ghost Ship #137

Iraq and Afghanistan showed that Washington is prepared to use war for regime change against govts. it doesn’t like or which oppose it. Furthermore, failure to leave Iraq when requested to do so demonstrates that United States is far more prepared to play “unwanted guest” than Russia. US withdrawal from Afghanistan shows that when the going gets tough, the “tough” go home. Russian intervention in Syria shows that it is prepared to successfully support govts. that ask for its help.
Who is the audience for all this theatre? I’m guessing the Gulf states which are probably starting to realize that their continued survival is more likely to be assured by Moscow than Washington. Also Moscow because it’s an gas/petrol exporter itself is less likely to demand price cuts that take away the GCC’s hard earned money.

Great post, all of it an I especially grok those last two paragraphs. Thank you.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 12 2022 6:55 utc | 177

@169 Don Bacon, quoting from State: “The Deputy Secretary thanked the Committee for their work to ensure any further Russian military invasion of Ukraine would result in severe costs, including coordinated economic measures, for the Russian Federation”
Those idiots really, really do believe that the Russians are frightened of the prospect of economic sanctions.
They really, really, believe that the hold the whip hand and Moscow will wilt under the threat of that whip.
Bizarre. Utterly bizarre.
I had thought that Washington was suffering from hubris.
But it really is much worse than that. They are delusional, mad as hatters.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jan 12 2022 7:18 utc | 178

jared #154

Interesting the juxtaposition of situations in Ukraine and Khazakstan.
Khazakstan was on a path of establish friendly relations with what I will call “all” parties.
Will that now be more difficult for them, I wonder.
And China offering assistance in Khazakstan – that may test relations with Russia a bit.

Thank you, the way I see it is that the old guard Nazarbayev oligarch faction was being lured deeper and deeper toward the western style of gravy train. That is not hard given that the west is entirely managed by/comfortable with looting oligarchs and crumbs for the people these days.
The Kazakhstan economy is locked in a strong grip of thieving Nazaebayev family oligarchs and others, regional mafia bosses and poverty at large. Something like a thugocracy with a democratic pretence. That changed when Kassym-Jomart Tokayev was elected president and Nazarbayev became ill and his family/faction bosses started plotting.
The west could not hesitate to let this evolve and the old clan gang eventually wrest control so they swooped in with a hasty colour revolution and got their nuts caught in a pincer. Tokayev seized the day, Russia and the collective security team were ready to pounce and voila: the Nazarbayev family clan are under lock and key, the entire plot was neutered and if Tokayev is canny and ruthless the dismantling of the thugocracy will proceed.
China support is very welcome as any employment that can be created is a stabilising bonus for Tokayev and consequently all supporters including Russia. The losers might suffer difficulties and any oligarchs with hesitancy in their step might be given advice on how to improve their future prospects. The Kazakhstanis are good at persuasion.
I am optimistic here and the scene is far more complex than that of course.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 12 2022 8:56 utc | 179

Or a major Africa development strategy under the motherly eye of the UN.
There is no need for anyone in the world to slavishly follow the UKUSA state delirium.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 12 2022 6:39 utc | 175
===
The Western economy is balanced upon a leveraged bet that cobalt and other necessary technological minerals can be extracted from the Congo (the region, not the country). For example, Tesla’s trillion dollar valuation is predicated upon flows of minerals that are not proven to exist.
Pulling back the curtain to expose the truth would restore the financial markets in a most unfortunate way for the majority of Western participants.
The anchor currency for RCEP will not be the US dollar.

Posted by: too scents | Jan 12 2022 9:27 utc | 180

PS happy new year Russia and all our comrades under that calendar. What a way to start the year – magnifico.

Due to the fact that in 1918, by Lenin’s decree, Russia began to follow the Gregorian calendar, the date of the New Year changed: January 14 by the new style is January 1 by the old style. Since then, the Russian people started the tradition of celebrating the New Year twice – January 1 and 14. The latter is called the “Old New Year”.

And thank you Comrades Vladimir both.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 12 2022 9:33 utc | 181

RE: Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jan 12 2022 7:18 utc | 178
“They are delusional, mad as hatters. “
With a little help from their friends.
Today’s Consortium News attempts at “censorship/moderation” within a surveillance environment.
1. “” Russia does not need Ukraine and its discontent.”
Along with “The Soviet Union” was not sustainable for various reasons, your quotation above was understood by some since 1969 and “the near abroads -” Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia and Ukraine’s ” trajectories were consequently lubricated with the understanding that opponents would seek to “make hay”.
2014 was expected and why “the United States of America” gained an albatross and the Russian Federation a new member (not a penis as some have observed),
“The ziocons do want this war but the Russians do not.”
No almost the complete reverse is the case, you have been listening to the Saker who is misguided in the slogan “Stop the Empire’s war on Russia” and war is restricted to things that go bang – hence the notice of intent that others “interpret” as ultimata for their own purposes.
“The United States of America” is attempting to appear to walk tall and look the world right in the eye, just like their fathers told them since they were about knee high.
Mr. Suslov was always of the view that “The United States of America” had been at war with Russia since at least 1922 – famine relief after the Russian Civil War refers since war is not restricted to things that go bang.”
2.
“”Putin actually always speaks the truth. ”
Being informed by – Tell as much of the truth as you can since few will believe you.
“Russia is happy for the Ukraine to be a neutral next-door neighbor but NOT a NATO member which by definition of the USA is an enemy. ”
An example given was the four power agreement which facilitated the Austrian Republic with modifications outlined in the Minsk agreements, not “Finlandisation” as Mr. Ritter infers.”

Posted by: NotEuclid | Jan 12 2022 14:42 utc | 182

RE: Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 12 2022 6:55 utc | 177
“Who is the audience for all this theatre?  “
Apparently you still believe the opponents are capable of “targeting”.
It is more like the “drone warfare strategy” – carpet bombing of any one willing to believe like remants who hold that these truths are self-evident continuing their roles as food sources and human shields.

Posted by: NotEuclid | Jan 12 2022 14:57 utc | 183

@Don Bacon | Jan 11 2022 17:00 utc | 145
The press release (in Norwegian) says that it is one of two cables that is not working, so the connection has not been lost but there is no redundancy. The cause of the damage is not known, but there was a power supply issue in an area where the water depth increases abruptly from 300m to 2700m.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 12 2022 15:30 utc | 184

@ Norwegian 185
There’s also a background story – The Barents Observer, Dec 7, 2021
Moscow aims to enhance presence in Svalbard as part of hybrid-strategy, expert warns

“​A hybrid-strategy is underway in which Russia bolsters its legitimate presence in Svalbard on one hand while raising tensions in the maritime space on the other hand,” says polar geopolitics expert Elizabeth Buchanan.
Diplomatic voices are louder and warships sail closer. Svalbard is increasing in strategic importance for Russia. As it is for Norway, which has sovereignty over the Arctic archipelago. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 15:36 utc | 185

@184 Right. They push the ‘information’ out 24/7 but people feel powerless so they just ignore it.
Disclaimer…..I just watched ‘Don’t Look Up’.

Posted by: dh | Jan 12 2022 15:38 utc | 186

@uncle tungsten | Jan 12 2022 9:33 utc | 182
This is also why the USSR celebrated the October revolution on November 7.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 12 2022 15:39 utc | 187

@Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 15:36 utc | 186
There is already a Russian town at Svalbard: Barentsburg
Citizens of countries having signed the Svalbard Treaty can go and work there without a visa (but you need work/accomodation). Lots of Thais work there…
“The Svalbard Treaty (originally the Spitsbergen Treaty) recognises the sovereignty of Norway over the Arctic archipelago of Svalbard, at the time called Spitsbergen. The exercise of sovereignty is, however, subject to certain stipulations, and not all Norwegian law applies. The treaty regulates the demilitarisation of the archipelago. The signatories were given equal rights to engage in commercial activities (mainly coal mining) on the islands. As of 2012, Norway and Russia make use of this right.”
It is a beautiful place, I visited there for a couple of days a few years ago.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 12 2022 15:46 utc | 188

The Congress is busy. . .as Russia. . .trembles over sanctions?. .no
. . .from The Hill. . .
Senate Democrats unveil bill sanctioning Russia over Ukraine

The Defending Ukraine Sovereignty Act of 2022, led by Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) and 25 of his colleagues, would impose mandatory sanctions on a variety of Russian entities should it escalate hostile action against Ukraine.
The measure would also call on the State and Defense departments to bolster Ukraine’s defense capabilities and enhance the delivery of security assistance to Kyiv.
The bill from Menendez is the second legislation introduced by lawmakers this week and reflects the bipartisan sentiment on Capitol Hill that the US should take a tougher stance against Russia.
On Monday, a group of House Republicans introduced the Guaranteeing Ukrainian Autonomy by Reinforcing its Defense Act, or GUARD Act, which is similarly aimed at bolstering Kyiv’s defense capabilities and rejecting Russia’s security demands. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 16:00 utc | 189

@ Norwegian
Perhaps we can agree that Norway, sort of like Australia in anther context with China, has earned Russia’s attention, recently by hyping the F-35 ready-reaction threat to Russia.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 16:06 utc | 190

Sherman and Stoltenberg have done a presser after the meeting but nothing From the Russian side.
https://sputniknews.com/20220112/nato-collectively-preparing-for-every-eventuality-with-russia-if-diplomacy-fails-sherman-says-1092209263.html
“The United States and our NATO allies were united in our responses to Deputy Foreign Minister [Alexander] Grushko and Deputy Minister of Defence [Alexander] Fomin in their comments, including when it comes to certain core Russian proposals, that are simply nonstarters,” Sherman told a press briefing.”
……
If what they were saying to the press is what they were saying to the Russian delegation it may be the end of the talks. Removing nukes from Europe and creating a buffer zone around their borders is the core of the proposals and publicly at least what they are saying is the buffer zone is a non starter.
More here. https://sputniknews.com/20220112/live-updates-russia-nato-council-meeting-on-security-guarantees-underway-in-brussels-1092192985.html

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 16:29 utc | 191

@Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 16:06 utc | 191
I don’t think Russia fears the barely flying brick called F35. We respect Russia, they liberated Finnmark in the north in WW2 from the Nazis. It is Quislings like Stoltenberg who are doing their best to create tension.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 12 2022 16:31 utc | 192

from the web. . .
NATO Headquarters is the political and administrative centre of the Alliance. It is located at Boulevard Leopold III in Brussels, Belgium. It offers a venue for representatives and experts from all member countries to consult on a continuous basis, a key part of the Alliance’s consensual decision-making process, and to work with partner countries.//
from the news. . .
The representatives and experts from all member countries have consulted and agreed with the US anti-Russia strategy as a part of the consensual decision-making process of partner countries.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 12 2022 16:37 utc | 193

@192 US/NATO not giving an inch obviously. What next? So if Russia pulls some troops back from the border will US/NATO make some reciprocal gestures or just demand more?

Posted by: dh | Jan 12 2022 16:49 utc | 194

Yeah, Right @178–
The Global Times editor agrees with you, “Delusional for US to overwhelm China and Russia by brute force”:
“In the past 30 years, the US elites have always viewed Russia with the arrogance of a ‘victor,’ believing that Russia is the ‘loser’ in the Cold War and deserves to be ‘punished.’ In their mind, Russia should be submissively lying on the edge of Europe, being bullied by the US and its allies.
“So far, the US and the West have slapped more than 100 sanctions on Russia, sparing no effort to suppress a major power ‘from a position of strength.’ Before this dialogue, the US and NATO had warned Russia with a sense of intimidation. In the dictionary of Washington, ‘respect’ is rarely seen. Washington’s real intent is to pressure Russia until it surrenders, so as to get rid of this threat to US hegemony for good.
“In a sense, the US has brutally forced Russia to become an ‘enemy’. With this ‘enemy,’ Washington can hold Europe closer to itself. While pushing NATO to expand eastward, the US is also hyping Russophobia in Europe….
“Perhaps the US’ successful experience in the Cold War has made the US overconfident so that the American political elites have taken out their rusted Cold War weapons against the world in a new era.
“Nevertheless, the world has already changed. It will eventually be proven that the infringement of other countries’ core interests and the violation of international equality and justice will not bring another ‘victory’ to Washington as it has wished.” [My Emphasis]
It’s the observation within the closing paragraph that’s the clincher, IMO, as it addresses the reality the Outlaw US Empire seems to believe doesn’t exist:
“Washington still has deep-rooted hegemonic thinking, but its hegemony is something tough outside but cowardly inside. Therefore, the world has seen a tangled US: It on one hand acts maliciously against other major powers but cannot really give up negotiations on the other hand. As a matter of fact, the US doesn’t have much capital to squander on great-power relations; its ‘position from strength’ cannot support its hegemonic ambitions. And the times will not give it such an opportunity either.” [My Emphasis]
uncle tungsten @175–
Your idea that the military technical demonstration ought to take place in Syria, IMO, is very likely, and I must admit I’d forgotten about the possibilities that exist there for that application.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 16:56 utc | 195

This is the Russian view after the meeting.
“The US-led NATO military bloc has reverted to full Cold War strategy of “containment” towards Russia and seeks “full spectrum dominance,” Moscow’s Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Grushko told reporters on Wednesday.”
“Russia has proposed de-escalation measures, but NATO has so far ignored them, the diplomat added. The bloc appears to recognize security as something that only applies to its members, in direct violation of numerous international treaties. Russia finds this unacceptable, Grushko said, adding that if NATO persists with the policy of containment, deterrence and intimidation, Moscow will respond in kind.”
https://www.rt.com/russia/545843-moscow-russia-nato-talks/

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 17:03 utc | 196

uncle tungsten @175–
karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 16:56 utc | 196
“Your idea that the military technical demonstration ought to take place in Syria, IMO, is very likely, and I must admit I’d forgotten about the possibilities that exist there for that application”.
***
Syria’s place in the world is changing for the better,
The Chinese have signed a memorandum of understanding allowing Syria into the BRI initiative.
https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status/1481253442421243909/photo/1
*
The Israelis, after their attack on Latakia, are “wondering” about possible repercussions from Herzbollah, Iran and Hamas should they attack Iran’s (nuclear-dixit) sites – they think there may be a new radar system activated and have “held back” two or three new bombing runs from completion.
**
The US is definitely settling in. A masssive oil theft covoy left Syria, a new logistical convoy (25+ lorries) entered near Hasakah, and they have set up a new oil treatment plant.
The oil leaves Syria and is presumably sent to Cehan (Turkey) on the med. Mixed with the oil in pipelines that already exist for Kurdish uses, where it is then shipped to Israel.
So the situation is tense, and to add to it the Turkish incroachment into both Syrian and Iraqi territory has led to Syrian.v.SDF “incidents”.
***
Some Kazakhstan terrrorist will have been imported from Idlib.
***
Some Kazakhstan terrorists have been imported from Afghanistan (and 6-8000 still there). But the Chinese and Taliban are talking “Ambassadors” and probably more useful financial things. So this is an “addition” as China becomes more active as well.
**
Exactly what the Russian might do there, I don’t know, but Israel (with their bombing of Latakia), the Turks with Idlib and the handicap of Erdogan, and the US as occupying “power”, all could do with a bit of a reminder than NONE of them have any business in Syria.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jan 12 2022 17:47 utc | 197

Posted by: uncle tungsten @ 175
Wrote:
“There is no need for anyone in the world to slavishly follow the UKUSA state delirium.”
A more suitable acronym for the new poor mans Triple Entente is USUKA. There’s one born every minute.

Posted by: Paul | Jan 12 2022 18:57 utc | 198