Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 11, 2022

The Danger Of Subjective Reading Of Covid News

This site has linked and quoted pieces by Alastair Crooke, a 'former' MI6 agent and diplomat. Crooke writes a weekly comment for the allegedly Russian financed Strategic Culture Foundation website.

(Sidenote: Independent writers for the SCF, like Russia expert Patrick Armstrong, have come under undue pressure from the U.S. government to quit. Patrick had reason to fear serious consequences and did so.)

Alastair Crooke is an expert on Middle East issues and an outside of the box thinker. But he also, at times, gets things wrong. In several recent pieces he has combined measures against the Covid-19 pandemic and big money lobbying into some global conspiracy theory in which the Bill Gates' of this world want to enslave all other people.

In his latest piece, The Double Helix of Entwined Pandemic and Economic Strategy, Crooke goes off to even greater nonsense. He writes (emphasis added):

[T]hough ‘following the science’ is the mantra, these measures make no sense: the Omicron variant predominantly infects the double vaxxed, not the unvaxxed. This is never admitted.

That, dear friends, is 'never admitted' because it is utter nonsense.

The link Crooke provides goes to a piece in the Epoch Times, an anti-China rag financed by the Falun Gong cult and best know for promoting Donald Trump. The Epoch Times writer of the piece linked by Crooke is one Naveen Athrappully 'a news reporter covering business and world events at The Epoch Times'.

Headlined - Omicron Spreads Faster Than Delta Within Vaccinated Individuals: Danish Study - the piece is generally correct. However its lead in can be misunderstood:

A Danish study of nearly 12,000 households has discovered that Omicron spreads faster than Delta among those who are fully vaccinated, and even faster between those who have received booster shots, indicating the variant’s ability to better dodge vaccine-induced immunity. Unvaccinated individuals were about as susceptible to infection as vaccinated. Those with a booster were less susceptible.

The highlighted half-sentence is imprecise and leads to misinterpretations.

The half-sentence does NOT mean that those who have had a booster shot get Covid at a higher rate than those who are unvaccinated or had two doses of vaccine. It does mean that the Omicron variant is better at breaking the immunity barrier than the Delta variant even in people who have received a booster shot.

A look into the original of the Danish study at medRXiv, to which Epoch Times provides a link, supports that interpretation.

The study used detailed statistical data, well available in Denmark, to measure the secondary attack rate of Covid cases of the two virus variants.

It looks at households where one person was infected with Covid-19 and then checks if, within a week, a second person in the same household was also infected (a 'secondary attack' in epidemiology speech). This 'Secondary Attack Rate' (SAR) is then differentiated between the Omicron variant of concern (VOC) and Delta as the virus variant that caused the first and secondary infection. The study also looks at the vaccination status of the secondary infected person.

The abstract of the study already contradicts Alastair Crooke's interpretation:

Among 11,937 households (2,225 with the Omicron VOC), we identified 6,397 secondary infections during a 1-7 day follow-up period. The SAR was 31% and 21% in households with the Omicron and Delta VOC, respectively. We found an increased transmission for unvaccinated individuals, and a reduced transmission for booster-vaccinated individuals, compared to fully vaccinated individuals.

Omicron is more prone than Delta to attack additional people in households where one person is infected. Unvaccinated individuals are most susceptible for a secondary infection. Vaccinated people less so and boostered people have the lowest chance of becoming a casualty of a secondary attack. That is the opposite of what Crooke falsely claims.

The main purpose of the study was to see how much more infectious Omicron is when compared to Delta:

Comparing households infected with the Omicron to Delta VOC, we found an 1.17 (95%-CI: 0.99-1.38) times higher SAR for unvaccinated, 2.61 times (95%-CI: 2.34-2.90) higher for fully vaccinated and 3.66 (95%-CI: 2.65-5.05) times higher for booster-vaccinated individuals, demonstrating strong evidence of immune evasiveness of the Omicron VOC.

Our findings confirm that the rapid spread of the Omicron VOC primarily can be ascribed to the immune evasiveness rather than an inherent increase in the basic transmissibility.

The vaccinations protected well, but not completely, against infections with the Delta variant. They however fail to protect more often against the Omicron variant. This does not mean that the vaccinations generally fail to protect. It also does not mean that those vaccinated are more susceptible to get infected than the unvaccinated (i.e. the opposite is true).

It does mean that the Omicron variant is evading the immune protection that the vaccinations created more often than the Delta variant does.

As the results of the Danish study conclude:

Generally, the estimated SAR was higher for the Omicron VOC than for the Delta VOC, for all age groups. Unvaccinated potential secondary cases experienced similar attack rates in households with the Omicron VOC and the Delta VOC (29% and 28%, respectively), while fully vaccinated individuals experienced secondary attack rates of 32% in household with the Omicron VOC and 19% in households with the Delta VOC. For booster-vaccinated individuals, Omicron was associated with a SAR of 25%, while the corresponding estimate for Delta was only 11%.

People vaccinated with two doses (fully vaccinated) became secondary cases just as often as the unvaccinated. (But the severity of the disease is generally less for vaccinated people.) People who had received two doses and a booster shot had much less chance to become a secondary case. The booster shot obviously helped.

This is said even more explicit in the discussion section in that paper:

Furthermore, we show that fully vaccinated and booster-vaccinated individuals are generally less susceptible to infection compared to unvaccinated individuals (Table 2).

Why Crooke misinterpreted the Epoch Times text is hard to understand. It is probably a case where someone wanted to read a confirmation of their preconceived believes even as the text did not confirm those at all.

That can, on a bad day, happen to all of us.


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Posted by b on January 11, 2022 at 10:33 UTC | Permalink

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Communication of ideas is the stuff of life.

Posted by: Rar | Jan 11 2022 20:26 utc | 101

imo #18

Thank you, well said.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 11 2022 20:51 utc | 102

Roger 105

China and Russia set covid strategies early that were in line with their people culture.
China has been successful in limiting outbreaks because its people by and large accept the disruption to their lives that causes.
Russia's strategy was to quickly develop vaccines and build new hospitals as large numbers of Russians would not have accepted the China strategy nor would they accept vaccine mandate. Russia I think must be approaching heard immunity as they have had very steady covid numbers constantly. That means very large number will have natural immunity plus those vaccinated.
In one of his early articles on covid, b wrote about widening the curve so hospitals were not swamped. That is what Russia has done very well.

Our covid policy in Australia is a mess in that although we had many lockdowns covid was never eliminated. No new dedicated hospitals or quarantine facilities were built. Vaccines were late appearing and now we have vaccine mandate.
I was recently given a subpoena to appear as a witness at a trial. To travel interstate for that I have to be double vaxed or have a medical exemption. If I do not appear at the trial I will be charged with contempt of court. The government uses snake oil words for it but what we have here is vax mandate. I not an anti-vaxer and although I have as much trust in the American vaccines as I do with the Boeing 737 there are other vaccines available here.
My problem is, as covid is well known now for triggering autoimmune type responses, will even the vaccine be a further trigger to add to my health issues.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 20:51 utc | 103


I couldn't find any peer reviewed references to your "Gold Standard." Can you supply any?

Posted by: Michael Weddington | Jan 11 2022 21:04 utc | 104

Peter AU1 @110--

Is there no opportunity to "appear" in court via video link? That's happened a lot here, also audio link. Both were in use prior to Covid. What objection could the court possibly have? I hope you find a workable solution!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 21:28 utc | 105

With Omicron infecting way faster and way more people, and being milder, we're facing the possibility of a variant that will hit the bulk of mankind and will provide basically everybody with a degree of covid immunity. Basically a way of making sure even unvaccinated people might take part in the great fight against covid and nearly all (at least the 99.9% who won't die from Omicron) will be protected from the most severe forms of covid - not just Omicron but other variants as well. Then it's basically game over and this becomes a milder flu.
That Wuhan strain was a lab leak because "China Evil" is of course BS. That said, having an even quicker and more infectious variant that is way less harmful was basically my ideal hypothesis, one that might take time, unless actually engineered. So at this point, I wouldn't rule out that Omicron wasn't a leak but was bioengineered by some (rogue?) state actor who wished to hast the end of the pandemic. I'd be very interested in 2 things: if any virologist can assess if there's any chance that Omicron was tweaked in a lab / from which country came the diplomats that Botswana alleged were the very first humans diagnosed with Omicron ? To be blunt, I wouldn't be totally surprised if China decided the mess had lasted long enough and gave us a Christmas present - not a pure one, plenty of people will still feel bad for a few days and a few will die -, though obviously that's not something any country can confess, because releasing a virus you have tampered with, even if it was to decrease its harmful potential, is not the kind of things that other countries will approve of.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jan 11 2022 21:52 utc | 106

karlof1 113

I need a medical exemption to appear via video link. Possibly I could get one possibly not.
Apart from one exception, I have been constantly diagnosed or miss diagnosed through my entire life.
About a year ago I had a pretty bad experience with a doctor. The medication he prescribed was not what I asked for but he did agree to prescribe the drug I asked for if that did not work. After six day on that I started crapping blood so stopped taking it. Went back to the doctor, told him what happened and asked for a prescription for the other drug which he then refused.
That very short period after had had agreed on prescribing the other other drug gave me a lot of optimism about the future which I had not had for many years.
That just finished me when he refused and I simply cannot see another doctor. I had already signed an advanced care form so legally I cannot be treated in anyway by any doctor if I am carted off to hospital unconscious. After that doctor lied to me I decided to give it another twelve months to try with diet and across the counter and herbal medications to get some improvements but that has not worked and the twelve months is nearly up.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 22:03 utc | 107

b, Time to declare an amnesty.
The status quo covid stance will be a total wreckage before the end of the week.

Posted by: librul | Jan 11 2022 22:10 utc | 108

So why not mention how protected the unvaxed people that had Covid in the last three months are? There’s a lot of us out there. When I got Delta I was sick one night and one day, my body beat it very easily. This is the heart of the skepticism that many people feel. Why would a NBA player or a healthcare worker who recently got Covid and beat it easily and is young and in perfect health not be allowed to return to work without a vax? We already know the vax does not stop transmission, so why the mandate for those who’ve had it and don’t want to risk the vax? Also why are their people on TV lying nonstop such as Rachel Maddow just the other day saying that being vaxed stops the virus from jumping from one person to the next, or saying someone died of omnicron in the US like CNN etc reported and Dan Cohen debunked in 5 minutes by calling the hospital and finding out that someone died with multiple comorbidities and merely had omnicron in their system when they passed. Or why does NBC still have the video up where a doctor is lying saying 180k children died of Covid? Or why do people on the TV say all the time that the vax is “totally safe” when the first files released from the FIA request show that Phizer’s own tests show that people were hurt and probably died from the vax? The benefits of being vaxed may out way the risks, especially those with immune problems but saying it’s totally safe is a lie. I know 5 people that have not recovered after the vax yet, 3 women who’s period cycle has not returned to normal, so i know they’re lying. These are the real questions, why is the MSM nonstop lying and spreading misinformation? Also why does this blog refuse to mention any of this misinformation?

Posted by: Jason c | Jan 11 2022 22:10 utc | 109

Blue Dotterel | Jan 11 2022 18:42 utc | 80... thanks.. yes he has posted here from time to is the quote from him in the link b provided - "I will no longer contribute to Strategic Culture Foundation." sounds like he has been pressured into this..

@ comandante | Jan 11 2022 18:44 utc | 81.. i mostly agree with you.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Jan 11 2022 22:16 utc | 110

@ Misha with wolves | Jan 11 2022 21:32 utc | 114 who wrote
The goal is Technocracy.

Welcome to the bar. That said, I think you are not only wrong, but obfuscatory....what does planning or not planning and by whom have to do with whatever this technocracy thing is you write is "the goal"?

Back to Covid

Almost two years now and what do we know

Jury still out on whether man-made or "evolution" or both

Covid seems to kill people but the associated numbers have and are being manipulated...definition of pandemic has been changed

The US is fixated on mRNA drugs being forced on the population in spite of ongoing volumes of evidence saying that their value is the point of changing the definition of the word vaccine to lessen effects from assure immunity...

Covid has and is being used both as an external and internal political tool of contention rather than cooperation.

Covid is being hyped to the extent it is being used as cover for further financial pillage and international terror

Covid more than geo-politics, IMO, is pushing people to alternative information sources like Joe Rogan and here at MoA

Some of the social control mechanisms being rolled out around Covid are meeting with social resistance and prompting alternative information sources and memes.

I have written before and will repeat; Covid is the one issue that has the potential for humanity to come together about and force change in the underlying structure of our, not so civil, society in the West.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 11 2022 22:16 utc | 111

Peter AU1 @118--

That's Gawd Awful!!!! I'm very saddened and angered to hear that!!!!! Utterly flabbergasted and rendered mute!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 22:19 utc | 112

(pursuant to @45)

Vancouver - For the first time, B.C.’s Ministry of Health has provided information about people who likely caught COVID-19 after going to acute care settings for medical treatment or work, with 1,619 getting the virus and 274 of them dying.


Posted by: laurence | Jan 11 2022 22:23 utc | 113

the distinction must be made, dying with covid is not the same as dying of covid.
the record keeping and reporting of the 'science' are purposefully inept.
Speaking of the science, has anyone seen "Don't Look Up" ?
a parable of epic proportion on nutflex
Highly recommend

Posted by: ld | Jan 11 2022 22:53 utc | 114

RS @ 35, Spudski @ 42, B @ 67:

The French virologist and co-winner of the Nobel Prize for Physiology / Medicine in 2008, Luc Montagnier, has been quoted as saying that mass vaccination during the COVID-19 pandemic is "an enormous mistake" and "a scientific error as well as a medical error".

Mass vaccination during pandemic historical blunder: Nobel laureate (Telangana Today, 12 January 2022)

While it is true that the SARS-COV-2 virus is always mutating (because its genome is unstable), the current vaccines may be acting on it in such a way that the virus evolves in a direction that it might not have taken otherwise.

Some of the current vaccines we have target specific parts of the virus's spike protein coating. The current Omicron variant sweeping Europe, North America and Australia differs from previous variants in that it lacks those specific regions of the spike protein coating targeted by the vaccines. One might ask therefore, if the vaccines themselves pressure the virus to evolve in ways that enable it to drop precisely those parts that the vaccines target. In the meantime the actual virus itself may remain unaffected.

If we were not using these particular vaccines, and allowing instead the virus to burn through the young (while protecting the elderly and the vulnerable such as those with co-morbidities and immunosuppressed systems, with other treatments which might include vaccines and/or drugs that target the virus itself rather than parts of its spike protein coating), the SARS-COV-2 virus might have evolved more rapidly into another common cold and we might have saved ourselves another winter season of lockdowns.

Incidentally what I have said above is predicted by Charles Darwin's theory of natural selection: an organism adapts to its environment due to selection pressures coming from within that environment. The classic example used in high schools to explain the theory is that of peppered moths living in Birmingham (UK) during the Industrial Revolution. Light-coloured peppered moths living on soot-covered trees in Birmingham and surrounding industrial areas got picked off by birds and dark-coloured moths ended up being the dominant moths of their species. Later when the pollution was cleaned up and soot no longer fell on trees, birds started preying on the dark-coloured moths and light-coloured moths became the more dominant moths.

Likewise the SARS-COV-2 virus, under selection pressure from the vaccines, evolves in a direction that might be different from what we would expect to do if allowed to evolve without that selection pressure. That direction might mean the virus does not become more benign but on the contrary even more serious, necessitating even more vaccines to treat new mutations.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 11 2022 23:09 utc | 115

There are more vaccinated people. The problem is waning antibody levels with immunity acquired from infections or vaccines. There is a move to redefine fully vaccinated and to limit vaccine passports to six months. Boosters will be required every six months to restore the antibody levels to what it was after 2 shots (1 with J&J).

Posted by: Les | Jan 11 2022 23:10 utc | 116

@65 Idiocrates
I’d argue there are lots of things happening simultaneously. I’m vaxxed, it was a risk calculation of the type I’m trained to make. However, I’m uninterested in making the argument that everyone should get vaccinated and completely uninterested in the idea of forcing everyone. It’s just one of the tools that could (and should) have been used to address the situation.

I’m also uninterested in hearing how bad the vaccines are for us, both because if the dangers were acute we’d know; we shrug off similar side effects/potential issues with all sorts of pharmaceuticals; and I’m paid to know what’s in the air and water. If you walk around in the modern world you don’t need to worry about what’s in the vaccines.

As for social control, that ship sailed long ago. Nobody rebels against credit scores. Nobody rebelled against the Patriot Act. Etc. Besides, the organs have gone so far as to recommend wearing masks, an act that fucks with cameras everywhere and facial recognition. We’d do more to stick to the man by wearing masks all the time than refusing to do so.

Posted by: Lex | Jan 11 2022 23:12 utc | 117

Looks like I need to post this definition once again. Immunity (Medical):

"In biology, immunity is the capability of multicellular organisms to resist harmful microorganisms. Immunity involves both specific and nonspecific components. The nonspecific components act as barriers or eliminators of a wide range of pathogens irrespective of their antigenic make-up. Other components of the immune system adapt themselves to each new disease encountered and can generate pathogen-specific immunity."

Again, immunity does NOT mean invincibility. It merely confers to the body the ability to resist (maybe that ought to be defined too). You can still become infected and transmit while resisting the microbe. Genuine Vaccines help the body promote immunity--resistance--to particular microbes. Vaccines do NOT prevent transmission. A vaccine in most cases allows one to defeat the infection without mortal consequences, but there's NO guarantee it will; that depends on the organism being attacked and ability of the attacker.

Vaccine mandates will NOT solve or eradicate the covid virus because it has the ability to cross between species--it has the ability to live within multiple hosts. As with influenza, the best that can be done is to reduce its ability to kill those infected by boosting resistance, however that's accomplished.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 23:30 utc | 118

Vaccines work

But US colonial empire is jabbing something else.

Here are official Omicron German Data.
Think for yourself.

Tabelle 5: Impfstatus der COVID-19-Fälle mit Omikron in MW 49 bis 52/2021 nach Altersgruppe (Datenstand 04.01.2022).

Seite 25

Hospitalisierte symptomatische COVID-19-Fälle
davon… ungeimpft: 2693 davon 795 Kinder 5-11 J.
grundimmunisiert: 7175
mit Auffrischimpfung: 2317

Auf Intensivstation betreute symptomatische COVID-19-Fälle¹ 9 [ davon 7>60 J.]
davon… ungeimpft: 3
grundimmunisiert: 3
mit Auffrischimpfung: 3

Verstorbene: 7 [davon 5>60 J.]
davon… ungeimpft: 2
grundimmunisiert: 2
mit Auffrischimpfung: 3

Posted by: StWf | Jan 11 2022 23:39 utc | 119

TCAM | Jan 11 2022 23:33 utc | 138


Posted by: StWf | Jan 11 2022 23:41 utc | 120

Jen @134

"... current vaccines may be acting on it in such a way that the virus evolves in a direction that it might not have taken otherwise."

Of course, a no brainer. Look at what modern hospitals are cooking up in their 'sterile' environments. It would be almost better to have temp field hospitals set up for a couple of years and then burnt. Ye olde crop rotations also work on similar disruptive principles.

It was a minor point I was tempted to take "b" up on -- i.e., his attributing intent to the virus etc. Scientifically, there is no need to imply intent. The virus simply has a natural mutation factor that allows selection for the niche. Crank up the niche dynamics and you get increasingly survival of stronger resistant bugs. Super weeds effect etc. Sloppy use of antibiotics sets up the same evolutionary dynamics etc.

In fact, as odious as it seems, this is possibly one long-term risk issue that probably fuels some of the current government policy anxiety on establishing social control and quarantine. Future trends suggest that the wonders of the penicillin age may be drawing to a close as the micro environment adjusts by way of natural selection to some flesh/organ eating scenarios that nobody wants to imagine. They aren't just wacko humans running around Syria!

Posted by: imo | Jan 11 2022 23:44 utc | 121

Run onto a medical publication on the Pfizer vac in some cases triggering auto immune conditions. I can get the AZ vaccine here but I have not run onto any information or if it has even been studied as to if the AZ can also trigger auto immune responses. It perhaps depends on what part of the virus is used to create the immune recognition or response.
"Vaccines represent an attractive possible solution to the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) pandemic. Widespread vaccine distribution has yet to occur in most countries, partially due to public concerns regarding possible side effects. While studies indicate the vaccine is exceptionally safe, rare systemic side effects remain possible. In Israel, where a large percentage of the population has been rapidly vaccinated, such adverse events may be more apparent. We report a series of patients presenting with de-novo or flares of existing autoimmune conditions associated with the Pfizer BNT162b2 mRNA SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. All patients were assessed in our tertiary care center in Israel and had no history of previous SARS-COV-2 infection. We observed that while immune phenomena may occur following vaccination, they usually follow a mild course and require modest therapy. We briefly expound on the theoretical background of vaccine related autoimmunity and explore future research prospects."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2022 23:44 utc | 122

To the commentator who made a big deal out of the WEF's 'Great Reset' and called it a conspiracy: The 'Great Reset' is just capitalists doing capitalism and trying to package it as something else (tech revolution, robotics etc blah blah) but at its core it is capitalism as it has always been done.

Of course its terrible and ought to be opposed but only people who don't understand how systems work get caught up in conspiratorial thinking. The system is the 'conspiracy' and systems are designed to survive individual actors getting taken out. So you can't fix a system by removing the 'bad' people because the new 'good' people will become 'bad' or the system will reject them.

The neoliberal capitalist system must be replaced at a foundational level or it will continue along its disastrous course. Attributing godlike powers to individuals like Bill Gates is foolishness but understandable if people see the world and politics being driven by individuals rather than systems.

Posted by: Occasional Poster | Jan 12 2022 0:06 utc | 123

Both politicians and public have problems when it comes to understanding the concept of medical immunity. I've composed a short article dealing with the issue that can be read at my VK Space. Please share it globally!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 0:11 utc | 124

In today's Australian news...

Case numbers plummeted from a peak of more than 45,000 on January 7 to just 20,200 in two days after people were urged to use rapid tests instead of battling long queues for lab swabs.

A self-reporting feature for rapid antigen tests (RATs) went live on the Service NSW app at 9am today.

Premier Dominic Perrottet said public health orders had been signed making reporting a positive RAT result mandatory.

Anyone who has tested positive on a RAT test from today must report it or face a $1,000 fine.

I really don't know why people would even bother testing themselves unless they were sick enough to go to hospital. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle now when it comes to covid in Australia. Vaccination for those that want it, masks and social distancing to slow the spread / lesson the initial viral load and get on with life as normal. Governments did nothing in the way of new dedicated hospitals for when this did get going - now they're pulling all this dumb shit.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 0:22 utc | 125

Occasional Poster @143--

Thanks for your succinct description of the real infection cursing humanity.

Peter AU1 @142--

A quick Yandex search found this report and many others,

I used the following as my search term, autoimmune disease johnson and johnson vaccine. Many results are just yak yak items about the general issues related to autoimmune diseases, not to how a specific vaccine interacts. But there're so many results it might be better to contact one of the medically oriented covid activist websites and pose your questions. I chose the J&J vaccine since my wife got it and she's allergic to almost everything but didn't have any issues with it.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 0:28 utc | 126

Peter AU1 @ 142

I personally took Pfizer (although the GP clinic was pushing AZ).

You might note this regarding the Russian vaccine: "...there are no “significant” differences between Sputnik V and AstraZeneca’s vaccine." -- i.e., AZ took the Russian IP and promoted it in the Anglosphere market. I remember some minor media on it at the time. (Btw I took Pfizer.)

"RW: There are several Russian COVID vaccines. Sputnik V, developed by the ministry of health’s Gamaleya Center, is by far the most commonly used drug, and so it’s the one that deserves the most scrutiny. Sputnik V is based on Gamaleya’s human adenovirus vector platform (Ad26 and Ad5), which is designed to transport genetic material into cells. If you examine the patent for Gamaleya’s influenza shot (which is posted on Sputnik V’s official website), the technology now being used for Sputnik V is openly referred to as a “genetic vaccine.”… Interestingly, Gamaleya’s director, Alexander Gintsburg, said there are no “significant” differences between Sputnik V and AstraZeneca’s vaccine."

Posted by: imo | Jan 12 2022 0:39 utc | 127

PAU1@118, as i don't know what you have, i understand your frustration, as i too have had my difficulties with our medical system (ca) & as a result have had to rely on my own abilities to self medicate & heal. i know from following your posts here, on the saker & smoothie that you are very capable of researching & finding the solution. i suggest you search pubmed, particularly curcumin, start the search with a date of 2020 for the research world wide on curcumin on @ least 20 or more serious health issues is overwhelming if you don't time date. my late niece had synovial sarcoma & during her last year was involved in 4 ww cutting edge studies on cancer & curcumin. her expectancy was 2mos max & she lived 18mos. b/c ss is so rare, you have a greater chance of getting hit by lightening than getting it, she attracted much attention & was willing to do the trials, also rare. i know we are all unique & it mayn't help you or your problems, bt it has helped me with mine, it has helped several friends with cancer & heart issues. i wish you a safe & successful journey.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Jan 12 2022 0:45 utc | 128

imo 147

Take a look at the twitter account of the clown that's stating all that. His statements would all need verifying. He thinks the Kazakhs are hero's for starting an armed revolt against their evil dictator and thinks Russians should do the same. Just a yank shit stirrer living in Moscow. Would fit in well with the color revolution NGO's.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 0:47 utc | 129

Peter AU1 @ 149

Point taken. I don't know the character's writing and was only interested in the words of Gamaleya’s director, Alexander Gintsburg. If he's been misquoted then my apologies and please ignor.

Posted by: imo | Jan 12 2022 0:55 utc | 130


You're losing this battle.

Please pay more attention to your mainstays, and stop deleting them.

Yes, Covid is an awful, deadly disease that is worse than the flu.

Also: with effective early treatment, it's only deadly for people who are already close to death.

Your presumption that the Chinese leadership doesn't coordinate with the Dsvos/WEF crowd is wrong. That's one of the defining characteristics of Davos. Always has been, and this "pandemic" has now proven it.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jan 12 2022 1:20 utc | 131

Posted by: juliania | Jan 11 2022 19:47 utc | 99

Hi Juliana,
I feel very much in tune with your comments and situation.

I do not think that critics of the pandemic measures are denying covid, I think they are questioning if it s a true pandemic by old accepted definitions.
One of the measures for a pandemic is excess mortality and even excess mortality must take into account the varying co-morbidities in different populations where they may make a person more susceptible to death from a virus than say from cancer or a road accident.
Here in Australia, we do not yet have even close to excess deaths from a normal year pre covid. No matter how much the government and media hypes it, they can't make it so. I am well aware there are many countries around the world in a similar situation. So if we can leave out Australia and a bunch of other nations with no excess deaths can we still call it a Pandemic?
Obviously in America it is a complex situation that I think is observable just as much a result of dreadful health care and incompetent governance as it might be a pandemic.
These are all questions I have and I'm just a common sense person with a reasonable intelligence and understanding of science. Personally I have had several bouts of flu over the past 5 years that have been every bit as dangerous as covid, I landed in Intensive care the first time. This was an out of season flu that hit in the height of summer in 2016. Having been there, I am not afraid of covid and I find the fear mongering and paranoia leading to totalitarian policies to be far more dangerous and offensive than the so called conspiracy theories. if you are older with co-morbidities then go ahead and take a vaxx if you feel that makes you safer. but it is not a one size fits all solution. The statistics from many countries around the world seem to be proving this as time goes on.

China managed to contain covid with minimal disruption to society, hardly any lockdowns and business and culture as usual in the main. They do it by massive testing and isolation. They use hygiene, TCM and vaccines for treatment and prevention.
B i wish you would understand that most people are protesting about the forced over medicalisation of our society, not in terms of denying covid. I never have flu vaccines, yes I sometimes get the flu but I prefer that to vaccines. I don't use pharmaceuticals as a rule so why would I submit to six monthly vaccines for the rest of my life after 65 years of not doing that? People who have always used allopathic medicine are entitled to their choice, but so am I, and I refute there is sound science to say that my refusing a vaccine makes me a danger to humanity. it is far more complex than that and there are many many ways to" skin the cat" of infectious transmission that don't put individuals in danger of hastily approved vaccine side effects.

Posted by: K | Jan 12 2022 1:21 utc | 132

imo 150

I think it was at Martyanov's blog some commenter claimed the same stuff re vax mandate in Russia. A western expat living in eastern Russia replied and called bullshit on those claims. That coupled with what Putin has been saying makes me think those claims are created for the purpose of creating mistrust and anger amongst Russians. Typical color revolution stuff.

That said there could be areas like elderly care, hospitals ect where people are required to be vaxed and also differences in regions due to regional administrations which sometimes act out of line with federal government aims.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 1:22 utc | 133


Crooke's article was better, all around, than your attempted takedown of it--far more thoughtful, insightful, reasoned, evidentiary, and considered.

I luv ya, but yes: the evidence is stacking up against both public policy and the conclusions of the vast, corporately funded/guided NGO/Super-GO Policy Institutions like CDC, NIH, WHO, The Fed, etc landscape.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jan 12 2022 1:31 utc | 134

In Hollywood pathogen movies people become symptomatic and infectious within seconds of exposure.
Thankfully (and hopefully) they are not writing the script for the covid variants that appear
down the road.
"People who develop symptoms from the original strain of COVID-19 typically got them five to six days after contracting the virus, though incubation periods as long as 14 days have been reported. Other COVID-19 variants, such as the delta variant, had an incubation period of four days."
"But in the case of omicron, the incubation period is much shorter- just three days, according to studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. People are generally contagious one to two days before symptoms appear and two-to-three days after they appear."

Posted by: librul | Jan 12 2022 1:33 utc | 135

@Posted by: librul | Jan 12 2022 1:33 utc | 156
believe that last line quoted is made more correct if written:
generally most contagious one to two days before symptoms appear and two-to-three days after they appear."

Posted by: librul | Jan 12 2022 1:36 utc | 136

@Posted by: librul | Jan 12 2022 1:36 utc | 157
So, by the time someone quarantines themselves
they have already been their most contagious.
Closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

Posted by: librul | Jan 12 2022 1:39 utc | 137 stated "But the severity of the disease is generally less for vaccinated people."

What makes you think this is true? My limited data set (myself, friends, family, family of friends) seems to indicate the opposite.

Posted by: fnord | Jan 12 2022 2:03 utc | 138

Ana Q93
>…You should pay atention to the relationship between~……………
Yes. The sleazy closed-shop network leaves one dumbstruck when it’s revealed.
People counter “conspiracy” **theories** with…. “Nah. That [pic your fav black ops event] would involve a HUGE number of people to pull off = they can’t ALL be in on it.
Except. There is actually a very small, tightly connected top tier….who ARE all “in on it”.
From JFK RFK MLK 9/11 Maiden, RussiaRussiaRussia U$A2020 J6, Kazakhstan22, and on and on ….
It’s the SAME cohort at the top, or pulling strings in the shadows…
And it’s multi generational. Bill Gates Snr + GHWB, Kissinger, Cheney….PNAC…
The connections, collaboration, “conspiracy” becomes irrefutable.
But seemingly too shocking and overwhelming for most to acknowledge.
We are then soothed with movies. (The good guys always win)
Celebrities, sport, and smartphones all controversies to fuel toxic and diverting social media outrage.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 12 2022 2:07 utc | 139

Looks like there has been a change in the definition of "immunity" as in medical immunity and/or biological immunity. Furthermore, this change was likely recent - the following have yet to be scrubbed from the internet:

"Immunity is a medical term that describes a state of having sufficient biological defenses to avoid infection, disease, or other unwanted biological invasion" Immunity (medical)


"Immunity is a biological term that describes a state of having sufficient biological defences to avoid infection, disease, or other unwanted biological invasion." Overview of the Immune System

As an old guy, I can attest that it used to be the case that if you were said to be immune to something it meant that you wouldn't get that something.

I don't know when it was changed but it's different nowadays, apparently.

Posted by: spudski | Jan 12 2022 2:21 utc | 140

Opinions abound. Read around, make a decision.

Posted by: vetinLA | Jan 12 2022 2:47 utc | 141

Spudski 161
>… I don't know when it was changed but it's different nowadays, apparently.
Mid to late 2020.
No I don’t have a link. I have been overwhelmed by the covid BS and have left the tracking tracing, narrative monitoring to others who are more “scientifically” inclined.
I saw a lot of threads on sites discussing the change of definition.
It fits with the ongoing and unrelenting moving of goalposts and contradictions and misdirections.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 12 2022 3:04 utc | 142

thanks to the wonderful radical cartoonist Mike Flugenock and his current "omicron lights: they are mild"
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jan 11 2022 15:38 utc | 51

And be sure to read the small print on the side of the pack!

Posted by: BM | Jan 12 2022 3:31 utc | 143

Below is a ZH posting link that MoA barflies will be interested in since is says DARPA knew since April, 2020 that Ivermectin was effective across all phases of Covid

Ivermectin 'Works Throughout All Phases' Of COVID According To Leaked Military Documents

When will there be enough information out there to convince the masses that humanity has an organizational problem?.....God of Mammon is my call

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 12 2022 3:33 utc | 144

@Peter AU1 #118

There must be some way to complain about that doctor’s actions to some kind of oversight or ethics committee, no? What is the reason for his/her reluctance to prescribe the medicine you want? Is it (a) expensive and must be subsidized by insurance or (b) potentially dangerous and thus highly regulated? Perhaps you can find a doctor in another country?

Posted by: S | Jan 12 2022 3:34 utc | 145

Below is another ZH posting link followed by a take away quote that is damming of Fauci

House Republicans Release Damning Fauci Emails Suggesting Concealed Knowledge Of Lab Leak

The take away quote
The letter references a February 1, 2020 conference call between Fauci, NIH head Collins, and 'at least eleven other scientists' who convened to discuss Covid-19.

"It was on this conference call that Drs. Fauci and Collins were first warned that COVID-19 may have leaked from the WIV and, further, may have been intentionally genetically manipulated. Again, it is unclear if either Dr. Fauci or Dr. Collins ever passed these warnings along to other government officials or if they simply ignored them."

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 12 2022 3:40 utc | 146

James Cook | 47

The time & energy required to create or propagate a lie is far, far, far less than the time/energy required to refute it with fact.
Outside of our individual "bullshit radars", reading others thoughts/analysis is the only thing that keeps our individual "critical thinking/reasoning" mechanisms active.
Because of the greater time/energy required to prove something as false, there are times when one just uses their "bullshit radar" to filter it out and discard it. The main problem is that it is very difficult to identify knowledgeable/trusted people who are NOT prepared to sacrifice their reputation for political/material gain.
Identifying who you can trust is getting harder and harder all the time. Soon we will all live in a Moldovan society where no one trusts anyone.......and as a result nothing gets done and our common humanity revolves around complete mistrust of everyone and everything.
Overall, my critical thinking leads me to the conclusion that totalitarianism is not far away.

Thanks for your post.
It captures the essence of my thoughts…

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 12 2022 3:59 utc | 147

Yeah ... and Trump didn’t lose the election believing Repugrats.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 4:18 utc | 148

S 166

In its synthetic form its a cheap as chips generic drug that has become political with covid.
I am over it with doctors, with bureaucrats - simply too tired to jump through hoops and listen to their bullshit.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 4:34 utc | 149

@ Oui | Jan 12 2022 4:18 utc | 171 who wrote
Yeah ... and Trump didn’t lose the election believing Repugrats.

So, let me get this straight; you haven't been around long enough to have read me calling Trump the Liberace Grifter and you didn't present counterfactual information for either of my ZH posting links about the lies associated with Covid.

Have I got that correct?

What are you doing at the MoA bar? Try to add some value, eh?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 12 2022 4:34 utc | 150

@118 Peter
I have some knowledge of what non- prescription stuff works with a few autoimmune diseases.

My wife is 1/2 way back from complete zero functionality with sarcoidosis.

There are things that work. The big problem of non- pharmaceutical is the lack of regulation/testing for what is out there

Take courage.

Posted by: Les7 | Jan 12 2022 4:50 utc | 151

Hopefully nemesis calling understand s it for what it means

Posted by: Les7 | Jan 12 2022 4:58 utc | 152

Peter AU 1 @ 149 and 154, IMO @ 150:

I see you're both talking about Riley Waggaman who has a blog on the Substack platform with the name Edward Slavsquat. His writing has been featured on Andrei Martyanov's Anti-Empire blog and Off-Guardian. As you say, Waggaman is an American journalist living in Moscow.

Waggaman does seem to have something against Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin in the way Sobyanin put Moscow under lockdown in 2020 and 2021, and compelled Muscovites to be vaccinated and to use vaccine passports in 2021 if they were visiting restaurants, cafes and clubs and other venues.

I think in one of the articles Waggaman wrote for Off-Guardian, he had a link to an Argentine study (in Spanish though) that claimed a number of adverse effects reported for Sputnik V among Argentine recipients. I don't know if the study had been translated into English or any other languages.

There has been one study done on Argentine healthcare workers who received the vaccine.
Active monitoring of early safety of Sputnik V vaccine in Buenos Aires, Argentina

Article abstract:

This study describes the incidence of early events supposedly attributable to vaccination or immunization (ESAVI) that occurred in healthcare workers who had been inoculated with the first component of the Sputnik V vaccine. Safety at 72 h post-immunization was analyzed based on a self-reported form. Between January 5 and January 20, 2021, in Buenos Aires, Argentina, a total of 707 healthcare workers (median age 35 yrs, female 67%) were vaccinated. The response rate was 96.6% (n: 683) and 487 (71.3%) participants reported at least one ESAVI. The incidence rate was 6.3 per 1000 person/hours. The total number of ESAVIs was 1434. A total of 469 local reactions were reported, 57% of the participants reported pain at the injection site, and 11% had redness and swelling. A total of 968 systemic reactions were informed, including new or worsened muscle pain, referred by 58% of the participants, fever referred by 40%, and diarrhea referred by 5%. Five percent (n: 34) had serious adverse events and one participant had to be hospitalized. The ESAVI rate was higher in females than males (66.4% versus 51.4%; HR 1.38; 95% CI 1.13-5.38) and in workers younger than 55 yrs old (63.0% versus 28.0%; HR 2.66; 95% CI 1.32-5.38). This study demonstrates high rates of early local and systemic reactions. However, serious events were rare. Studies on long-term safety, stratified by sex and age, are needed.

A study on healthcare workers in Iran who received Sputnik V:
Side effects and Immunogenicity following administration of the Sputnik V COVID-19 vaccine in health care workers in Iran


The Sputnik V is a COVID- 19 vaccine developed by the Gamalia institute of epidemiology and microbiology and released on August 11, 2020. We provided independent evidence on side effects and immunogenicity following the administration of the Sputnik V COVID-19 in Iran. In this observational study, the healthcare workers who were vaccinated with the Sputnik V COVID-19 vaccine within February and April 2021 were evaluated. Among a total of 13,435 vaccinated healthcare workers, we received 3236 self-declaration reports of Sputnik V associated adverse events with the mean age 39.32 ± 10.19 years old which 38.8% were men and 61.2% were women. Totally 68.8% of females versus 66.2% of males reported side effects after receiving the first dose and 31.2% of females versus 33.8% of males reported side effects after the second dose of vaccine. The most common side effect was a pain in the injection site (56.9%), fatigue (50.9%), body pain (43.9%), headache (35.7%), fever (32.9%), joint pain (30.3%), chilling (29.8%) and drowsiness (20.3%). Side effects of the vaccine were significantly more frequent in females and younger individuals. Among a total of 238 participants, more than 90% after the first and second dose of vaccine had a detectable level of SARS-CoV-2 RBD antibody and SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibody. Although the overall rate of adverse effects was higher than the interim results from randomized controlled trials, our findings support the manufacturer’s reports about the high humoral immunogenicity of vaccine against COVID-19.

Sputnik V is now used very widely in a number of countries across the world so there should be enough information by now to as to whether the vaccine has caused or been the catalyst for any adverse reactions. Enough countries have it that valid comparisons and controlling for variations in how the vaccine is being delivered to patients, who is delivering it, and who the eligible recipients are, should be possible.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 12 2022 5:00 utc | 153

AZ used adenovirus derived from monkeys - patent reasons.

Sputnik V used a line of adenovirus derived from humans. There is an important distinction here. DYODD

Posted by: Les7 | Jan 12 2022 5:11 utc | 154

I've not taken flu shots, and I will not take these vaccines. I mask, and I isolate; ... I have to go with what I personally feel is the best course, and I wish the best to all who are doing just that. -- juliania | Jan 11 2022 19:47 utc | 99

Just like juliania@99, I too haven't taken any flu shots for decades. I'll wear a mask when appropriate and the distance rule is OK with me as I don't have to worry about pickpockets. I don't go around harassing people for picking whatever side they've chosen to be on in this fight. However, I draw the line on mandates / passports.

I, for one, is happy to see growing protest movements as Misha with wolves@130 posted. I hope the sentiment spreads globally and persist for as long as the stupidity continues. Big Pharma can go fuck themselves. I'm no lab rat. If anyone wants to be one, knock yourselves out.


But it seems to be a cover for something more. Something stinks massively

Some Random Passerby | Jan 11 2022 19:54 utc | 103:

It is. Damage control. I suspect Western nations are circling their wagons to ensure those parasites stay in positions of authority. The next big wave wouldn't be from whatever-cron but chaos from their handling of the economy.


It will have "no impact on my decision," said Marc Belec Lafrance, who lives in Saint-Eustache, north of Montreal.

"They've taken everything away from me. And they can continue. It wouldn't change anything," he said.

Bruised Northerner | Jan 11 2022 22:39 utc | 129:

The stupid fucks don't realize what happens when the populace have nothing left to lose.


Misha with wolves | Jan 11 2022 22:42 utc | 130: Good! Needs to be everywhere. Thanks for posting. Hope to see more.

Posted by: Ian2 | Jan 12 2022 5:18 utc | 155

Jen 179
Thanks Jen for your research. As for vaccine mandates, Russia I think would need to be studied region by region as many of these have a great deal of autonomy and why Russia is officially called the Russian Federation. Here in AU the federal government and states appear to be in lockstep when it comes to vaccines but in Russian Federation not so much in lockstep.

Les7 176
Thanks for that comment. My personal health experience with autoimmune issues and doctors/medical industry are I think relevant on this thread due to the way covid triggers the immune system rather than to whinge about my personal health problems. It is good though to hear from people who have been through, or are close to someone who has been through similar issues.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 12 2022 5:47 utc | 156


Source of “breaking news” is DARPA Project Veritas 😂

It’s all over Fox News and extreme rightwing media … chasing a lure.

Alternate source for science: Marion Koopmans and visit to Wuhan Lab.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 6:34 utc | 157

Omicron evades immunity better than Delta, Danish study finds

A virus can be more transmissible due to a number of reasons, such as the time it lingers in the air, its ability to latch onto cells, or its evasion of the body's immune system.

Investigating nearly 12,000 Danish households in mid-December, the scientists found that Omicron was 2.7 to 3.7 times more infectious than the Delta variant among vaccinated Danes.

The study also found that booster-vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the virus, regardless of the variant, than the unvaccinated.

The findings confirm the earliest reports in November from South Africa #gauteng. The viral load is a factor 70 greater with Omicron, that’s the reason health officials are increasing attention on quality of face masks … and distancing.

False headline in US media, specifically originating in Texas:

“Triple-vaccinated people are more likely to be infected by the Omicron variant than the unvaccinated.”

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 6:58 utc | 158

@Moses22 | Jan 11 2022 22:22 utc | 126

No, he explicitly left open the possibility that it is a hoax.

It is amazing how many people don't know about long-covid. 10% or more of people who have covid are coming away with long-term damage to their organs. They don't even have to have ever had any symptoms to get things like lung scarring. And none of the vaccines do anything to prevent it. The hyper focus on deaths, aside from being literally fascist eugenics ('it's mostly the old and already unhealthy who die, so who cares'), completely misses the massive non-lethal damage being inflicted alongside the deaths (which are still substantial; a million in the US and up to seventeen million globally).

Aside from the fact that 'Omicron is mild' is a bullshit meme that started by deliberately misrepresenting what a South African doctor said (as well as assuming that 'mild' means 'just a bad cold', which it absolutely wouldn't mean in the context of a SARS virus), even if it were true (and it isn't) the chance of long-covid isn't any lower with Omicron, while it spreads up to five times as easily. There are going to be a huge number of cripples walking around in an about six months.

Posted by: Ben | Jan 12 2022 7:14 utc | 159

Posted by: Ben | Jan 12 2022 7:14 utc | 185
And you have evidence for this, I presume - that omicron is not "mild" and that it does contribute to "long covid" as much as other variants. Everthing I have read or seen has claimed it is "mild" and I have seen nothing suggesting it contributes to long covid at all. And you provide zero evidence whatsoever. Please, remedy this oversight.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jan 12 2022 7:23 utc | 160

I find b's coverage of covid to be overall sound but I prefer more sensitivity to the risks and deep potential harm of the mRNA vaccines, and to the politicization of the 'science' about them.

while prudence is generally a virtue, in this realm it is in effect to be an unwitting advocate for big pharma.

Posted by: mastameta | Jan 12 2022 7:51 utc | 161

Watch out: France has now 80 children under 10 years old in intensive care with covid, and 2 died in the last 24 hours. This is in a "mRNA only" booster France (thanks to a Sanofi/Pfizer agreement, France is manufacturing Pfizer vaccines and has been using them massively). Mass vaccination of the 5-11 had started since December.
So the boosting campaign of the adults, the mRNA vaccination of the 11-18 since last 15 June, has resulted in this clusterfuck, which they now try to justify by saying that "we thought covid did not affect children but it is because we did not test them" (using again Mr Geneva-based Flahaut in every interview)
Untrue: all schools were children have been tested in the latest 2 years have shown numerous cases during each waves).
In the non-vaxxed (South Africa) or non-boosted (Denmark where it started in January) environment, it peaked quickly and went down, but with France, it will reach summits.
No surprise for those who have doubts about Macron's sanity that his reign will end up on a plain of cadavers.
The main problem again, as a comparison between France mortality and that of Japan, Germany or Switzerland indicate, is rather the bad quality of medicine in the country. Doctors who do not believe that traditional medicine (herbal teas are often given in Germany's apotheeks for what in France would receive prescribed pills) works on early symptoms get what they deserve.

I guess I will be banned. But what will happen when all the people who have comment on that thread express some dissent views again in the coming days? They'll all be banned as I've been repeatedly?

Posted by: Tom2 | Jan 12 2022 8:33 utc | 162

Ben | Jan 12 2022 7:14 utc | 185

I fully agree. The elderly do not survive and meet an early death, younger persons manage to hang on thx to excellent care in hospitals. Too many however have a long road to full recovery … the facts are there, The rehabilitation centra are overloaded with patients.

Source Mayo Clinic:

Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) is a serious condition that appears to be linked to coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Most children who become infected with the COVID-19 virus have only a mild illness. But in children who go on to develop MIS-C, some organs and tissues — such as the heart, lungs, blood vessels, kidneys, digestive system, brain, skin or eyes — become severely inflamed. Signs and symptoms depend on which areas of the body are affected.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 9:28 utc | 163

@Tom2 - y’re welcome

Denmark Health Authority: get your booster jab!

Right now, there is a resurgence of the epidemic in Denmark, and the Omicron variant is spreading at an alarming rate. Furthermore, the immunity obtained with vaccination may possibly be weaker against the new Omicron variant.

Fortunately, preliminary data suggest that a 3rd dose will increase immunity, which can prevent severe illness from covid-19, even if you were to become infected with the Omicron variant. The Danish Health Authority urges you to accept the offer of a 3rd vaccine dose as soon as possible.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 9:35 utc | 164

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 9:28 utc | 190

This is not about the Omicron variant and long covid. Perhaps, you could find some evidence for it, as Ben has not.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jan 12 2022 9:52 utc | 165

A sane place is needed to discuss Malone Falungong agenda wrt CCP

Where are the studies showing the exact efficiency of each vaccine, per brand? Places like Turkey, UAE, Morocco, should reveal interesting result, having used Sinovac more than others.

If Malone is a Trump card for getting back in office and attack China, this should certainly be discussed here.

Posted by: Tom2 | Jan 12 2022 11:36 utc | 166

@Blue Dotterel

UK advocacy group Long Covid Kids

Long covid: One in seven children may still have symptoms 15 weeks after infection, data show
[not peer reviewed]

Not predictable by whom the effect is mild or in a matter of weeks deteriorates to a full handicap.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 11:50 utc | 167

john | Jan 12 2022 11:41 utc | 195

How about at least giving the section references where your quotes can be found and a link to the full doc?

Posted by: Doesitreallymatter | Jan 12 2022 11:51 utc | 168

Recovery from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) can take weeks up to months in previously hospitalised and non-hospitalised adult patients. Even though a large proportion recover fully, case reports and several cohort studies have shown that some patients have persistent symptoms (for >12 weeks after the COVID-19 related infection), such as fatigue, dyspnoea, chest tightness, headache and muscle pain. Moreover, an impaired functional status, post-traumatic stress disorder and poor quality of life have been reported in previously hospitalised and non-hospitalised adults recovering from COVID-19.

Long Covid Study RIVM - monitoring patients

Further reading:
Incidence, co-occurrence, and evolution of long-COVID features: A 6-month retrospective cohort study of 273,618 survivors of COVID-19

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 11:53 utc | 169

Evaluating the number of unvaccinated people needed to exclude to prevent SARS-CoV-2 transmissions
Preprint with very interesting statistical analysis concluding that vaccine passports don’t prevent many transmissions. Note that even household transmission is 20-30% which surprisingly low.

Here’s a YouTube podcast discussing the article: a medical doctor and professor with the author clinical psychologist and statistician.

Posted by: RJB | Jan 12 2022 12:08 utc | 170

Occasional Poster @143, thanks for the comment.

Posted by: Die Niemandsfuchs | Jan 12 2022 12:13 utc | 171

@ Piotr Berman | Jan 11 2022 15:03 utc | 43

“Vaccination is supposed to mimic the infection without causing illness, passing the real infection without the illness should have the same benefit. And this is the current expert opinion. Criticizing someone as "bad at science" using bad science is [fill the dots].”

The Swiss Governments guidance is that vaccinations OR recovery from infection is EQUIVALENT and allows travel.

What is wrong with that?

Posted by: D.G.. | Jan 12 2022 12:15 utc | 172

@ Posted by: waynorinorway | Jan 11 2022 18:04 utc | 70

“He’s now back in the UK “ [Jonathan Cook]

Is he? I thought he was long settled in Nazareth?

First came across him in The Graun - when it still pretended to do independent progressive journalism rather than being the MI5/6 house journal it evolved into under Rusbridger and its current Zionist stable of anti Social Democrats - then they fired him! Their senior a foreign correspondent!!

That’s when I first smelled a rat at that rag... it is now a noxious swamp with some scented flowers providing the odd fig leaf.

Their treatment of Assange deserves that Kings Palace to burn to the ground when he is assassinated through the cruel incarceration he is under.

On the current subject- I don’t see much if any disagreement between b and Jonathan. The virus exists and it is deadly for a few and if everyone got it at the same time even the minority that would need treatment would overwhelm many hospital ICU’s. There are very real dangers of Long Covid for some.

But it must be settled - does recovery from infection by a otherwise healthy human mean they are as good as if not better off than vaccination by a limited choice we are demanded to take where we live?

I don’t want to see the avoidable extermination of these with co-morbidities. Even if self inflicted.

Remember Stephen Hawking, the late great physicist genius was paraplegic most of his productive adult life and in need of full time nursing care; No one would possibly say let the devil take him! Would they?

I miss his ‘voice’ and opinion on such major issues. He nearly had Jeremy ‘the utter and complete’ Hunt in court over the destruction of the NHS in the U.K. A case that would easily have succeeded except that Hawking suddenly died.

Posted by: D.G. | Jan 12 2022 12:35 utc | 173

if you ask official sources from the US side all you will get is spin. if you wait patiently, you can get that spin later.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 12 2022 13:52 utc | 174

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 11:53 utc | 198

Your bmj doesn't work. The other one does not deal with omicron. It is possible that omicron, being much milder that the other variants, will have negligible long covid effects, if any.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jan 12 2022 14:19 utc | 175

It is very easy to manipulate the news when most ppl don't understand the delays: EU capital to countryside; EU to NY; NY to the rest of the USA.
What we are seeing in the US now is the (lethal) Delta wave, but they seem to do very little genomes there, and complacient journalists don't ask.
Example in this article:

Posted by: Tom2 | Jan 12 2022 14:56 utc | 176

Until this post, I had not read the Strategic-Culture article. I gave it a go and found it an excellent read.

Posted by: Slat1 | Jan 12 2022 15:31 utc | 177

Original paper:

In the news:

The researchers found that two cannabinoid acids commonly found in hemp varietals of cannabis, cannabigerolic acid, or CBGA, and cannabidiolic acid, also known as CBDA, can bind to the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19. By binding to the spike protein, the compounds can prevent the virus from entering cells and causing infection, potentially offering new avenues to prevent and treat the disease.

Let's all inhale...

Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 12 2022 15:39 utc | 178

@karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 23:30 utc | 137 and @spudski | Jan 12 2022 2:21 utc | 161,

Regarding the definition of immunity, online resources seem not that reliable nowadays. I tend to agree with the one that spudski referred to. Could anyone kindly provide a definition of "immunity" from some textbook or classical reference in the related field(s) that is a hardcopy/physical book published at least 5 years ago?! Thanks in advance.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Jan 12 2022 16:22 utc | 179

LuRenJia | Jan 12 2022 16:22 utc | 216

Exactly. Too easy to "correct" online resources after the fact. That's why I love my hard copy books and textbooks.

Posted by: spudski | Jan 12 2022 16:46 utc | 180

The 2 quotes of the day are from Paris

"On ne fait pas grève contre un virus" (You don't go on strike against a virus) [J.-M. Blanquer, French minister of education, commenting on the national strike in education tomorrow, to protest shortages and (chronical) lack of funding as well as fantasy protocols that have changed four times in just one week]

"Il faut rebatir l'esprit des lumières dans le numérique" (We have to recreate the spirit of the enlightenment movement in the digital world) [E. Macron]

Posted by: Tom2 | Jan 12 2022 17:01 utc | 181

@mastameta #187
Your definition of "sound" appears to be "goes along with the mainstream line".
The mainstream line isn't always wrong - but what is disturbing is the reality that the mainstream line here is demonstrably wrong and MoA continues to toe the line.
Note again that I am not an anti-vaxxer. I have and continue to tell all those people I know who are high risk - over 60, poor general healt etc that they should vaccinate.

However, I am and continue to be against

1) vaccine mandates overall. There is minimal to no evidence that vaccines actually reduce the incidence or spread of COVID of any type. The PMCs keep yapping about how this or that vaccine worked against "X Y Z" variant, but this is clearly bullshit given the ongoing numbers.

2) that vaccines are a, much less the, major factor in hospitalizations. Note yet again that the US (I can't speak for Western Europe), there has been minimal to zero emphasis on either treatment or non-medical risk reduction unless you're a peon. I got COVID from my wife, who got it from partying with the Silicon Valley Burning Man crowd. No venue restrictions for them.

3) Vaccination of children is a abomination, period. They are the lowest possible risk by any measure, the consequences for long term negative effects however likely/unlikely are amplified for them, and see 1) above.

I have stated from the very beginning - ~March 2020 that COVID is far more likely to be an endemic disease like the flu or the common cold. Has anything happened to change this view? No.

I understand that bureaucratic incentives for enforced vaccinations in countries with socialized health care - for them, every single "preventable" hospitalization or death is extra cost. Yet this doesn't address the long term risks associated with mass vaccination for the not high risk majority of the population, nor does this square with their tolerance of other lifestyle related risks such as smoking, drug use or being over weight.

This entire fiasco is kafka-esque over-reach of immense proportions.

My tolerance is gone: This latest wave, which I predicted months ago, shows clearly the emperor has no clothes - neither in Western Europe or the United States.
The United States is on a weekly new infection rate literally 300%/3 times greater than the "Trump wave" of 2020-2021.
Nor is Europe any better: Europe overall is actually worse than the US.
This is demonstrated, public failure at the highest possible levels and widest possible societal breadth.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 12 2022 17:12 utc | 182

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jan 11 2022 21:52 utc | 116

Apologies if this has already been discussed (haven't read ahead). Your surmise is one I agree with (as a surmise) and it has been discussed previously - the open thread before the last one I think. It makes good sense to me. I am always reminded of an early conversation with my daughter (an indefatigable hospital worker) as she delivered supplies to me. She said "We are all going to get it eventually." On infrequent visits from her and other family we are both always masked. It's no big deal.

I don't even know (many don't) if I have already had my version of the virus. I'm sure I have been in contact with folk who have it as I shop. I double mask and follow all other protocols while it is still sensible to do so. I reported a while back on my neighbor's affront hearing I was unvaccinated when he took me shopping as our car was temporarily indisposed. For him (unmasked) I double masked in his car as well.

Posted by: juliania | Jan 12 2022 17:15 utc | 183

@LuRenJia #216
Be more precise in your definitions.
"immunity" is far too generic a term.
The precise term for a vaccine is "sterilizing immunity": some vaccines, for some diseases, can prevent contracting the disease, contracting serious forms of the disease and prevent spread of the disease. Large, stable, relatively slow developing diseases like smallpox fall under this category.

COVID does not.

Then there is acquired immunity. Vaccines are intended to induce acquired immunity; getting COVID and surviving also gives acquired immunity. Acquired immunity can sometimes be permanent depending on the disease (i.e. chicken pox for most people), but is more typically only for a period of time.

There is no permanent acquired immunity for COVID, regardless of source. There is clearly better acquired immunity from getting COVID vs. getting vaccinated, but this still means you have to get COVID.

Again, we're talking about responses of large groups of people - not any individual. The actual response depends on the person, the disease etc.

With respect to COVID itself: the issue is that the disease spreads rapidly among the population but also spreads rapidly in an individual once an infection foothold is established.
The goal for the COVID vaccines is to shorten the time in which the person's own immune system will respond to the infection; the problem is that COVID multiplies so fast that it isn't entirely clear that there will ever be vaccine-induced immune responses of sufficient speed and efficiency to enable a long (i.e. more than 2,3 month) effectiveness. That's why the number of new jabs seems infinite.

So be very careful with the term "immunity" - it is meaningless in the context of most discussions, particularly involving COVID.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 12 2022 17:23 utc | 184

LuRenJia @216 & spudski @217--

After reading a similar comment to yours, last night I consulted my older dictionaries published in the 1970s prior to the Internet Age. The verbiage is somewhat different but the meaning is the same. The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: New College Edition, 1979:

Immunity: "1. The quality or condition of being immune. 2. An inherited or acquired or induced condition to a specific pathogen."

We thus need to consult Immune:

"Immune: 1.a. Exempt. b. Not affected or responsive. 2 Medicine. Having immunity."

Pretty terse. But what do we see in reality? A person gets their flu vaccine. It boosts the immune system so it can fight the virus when it enters the body. It doesn't prevent the virus from entering the body, nor does it prevent its transmission while inside the body.

IMO, the problem with human understanding of the concept of immunity is the result of the first meaning, exempt, as it's clear that is not at all the case as the virus is capable of entering the body. If one were genuinely exempt, the virus would find no purchase within the body whatsoever. But as we see, that isn't the case.

Animal immune systems work to keep the pathogen from causing damage to the body. Vaccines bolster immune systems. But in this case, neither confer invincibility--the body is still invaded by the pathogen, although it may be defeated, prevented from causing damage. But while the pathogen's being fought, it can still be transmitted to others. And as I wrote, because all Covid varieties are capable of having multiple species as hosts like influenza, there's no way for it to become isolated and made extinct.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 17:32 utc | 185

@ vato | Jan 12 2022 12:58 utc | 205... thanks for that vato.. i will have to check in on john helmer...

Posted by: james | Jan 12 2022 17:41 utc | 186

c1ue @224--

I see we agree for a change. Too many think/believe that being immune or having immunity makes one bulletproof when that's not at all the case. The virus still enters your body and triggers an immune system response. The instant the virus enters your body, you're infected--you're not immune--"Exempt." You can now transmit the virus. IMO, the reason why new infections are off-the-charts is because the vaccinated believe they are "exempt" and thus cease their preventive protocols. They might not suffer as much thanks to their bolstered immune system, but they still catch and spread the virus.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 17:44 utc | 187

On Kids Safari to the Zoo 🤡

With the expansion of the country's vaccination campaign to include children as young as 5, Belgian authorities are getting creative as they try to prevent kids getting spooked by the sight of vials and needles.

Antwerp on Wednesday made use of one its greatest assets — the zoo in the center of town which is one of the finest in Europe.

No comment! Flanders Freedom Party

Posted by: Oui | Jan 12 2022 17:46 utc | 188

Posted by: K | Jan 12 2022 1:21 utc | 153:

Thank you K, for your good remarks - I know some are tired of the subject, but b is an honest person, and I think he stays open to sensible posts that do not attack him or his 'family' here. I appreciate personal accounts as even now there are no 'right' answers. I've realized that this is what I love about Orthodoxy. There is a minimal (but important) credo which all believers believe, but the rest is speculation which makes for many different aspects of the one faith, and it is better that we realize it than that we condemn one another. (In my little church, for example, the word 'heretic' was never spoken, never!) In our faith the basic unknown that God must inevitably be in essence is a crucial factor. (Love the word 'crucial' as well!)

And always the unknown-ness of such important medical matters as those we discuss here behooves one (I love that term) to be cautious about advocating one's own path for anyone else.

Posted by: juliania | Jan 12 2022 17:50 utc | 189

Scotch, Psycho, others.

Thank you for pointing to the Project Veritas leaked document from DARPA.

It seems like the real deal, an informed timeline and analysis in the form of a report, listing other document names and even where they were stored on DARPA servers. It is COMPLETE and EXPLOSIVE.

Here is the watermarked 24 page PDF file. It's hard to read because of the watermark, but I am working my way through it. Also it's a scanned PDF so I can't cut and paste.

The gist:

SARS-COV-19 was developed in Wuhan and US labs as a VACCINE to immunize bats against SARS viruses that could affect humans.

It was not completely attenuated (made less dangerous) before it leaked from the lab

It was made as an aerosol so bats could be infected with the VACCINE, and tested against masked civets

The author refers to the thing he now calls SARS-COV-WIV as a vaccine, but in fact it is the thing we are calling a virus

The virus is not very easy to vaccinate against

It responds to chloroquine, remdesivr, interferon and especially ivermectin

the report names the programs for each part of the process

... there's way more but I encourage you to read it for yourself. Don't get caught up in the smaller details like if the gain-of-function research was allowed (it wasn't) etc.

The most important thing here in my opinion is that people in the US government knew all about this virus, its provenance and how to treat it. Yet these details were buried.

Posted by: jonku | Jan 12 2022 17:53 utc | 190

@13 Lex:

How refreshing to see a clear and correct description of the situation we have landed in thanks to government malfeasance and misdirection in the good ol USA (and its subalterns). Thank you. LindaJ

Posted by: lindaj | Jan 12 2022 17:57 utc | 191

@45 Mark:
Thank you for the extremely clear summation of the current catastrophe in the USA w/regard to covid (and everything else). Although whether or not the powers that be are stupid is questionable. They are blinded by greed, that's for sure.

Upon reflection, though, they may also be stupid because they have fallen for the idea that they can isolate themselves and their money from the result of their miscalculations.

Posted by: lindaj | Jan 12 2022 18:21 utc | 192

Transcribed fragments of DARPA Report

13 Aug 21


1. SARS-CoV-2 is an American-created recombinant bat vaccine, or its precursor virus. It was created by an EcoHealth Alliance program at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) …

Peter Daszak lays out step by step what the organization intends … ["EcoHealth proposal to DARPA PREEMPT program dated March 2018"]
The reasons why non pharmaceutical interventions like masks and medical countermeasures like the mRNA vaccines do not work well can be extrapolated from the details.
SARS-CoV-2’s form as it emerged is likely as a precursor, deliberately virulent, humanized recombinant SARSr-Cov bat vaccine.

The purpose of the EcoHealth program, called DEFUSE, was to inoculate bats in the Yunnnan, China caves where confirmed SARS-CoVs were found. Ostensibly this would prevent another SARS-CoV pandemic; the bats immune systems would be reinforced …

It seems clear this is a top-level analysis of what happened as of August 13th of last year. If you read between the lines, the report is "just the facts, ma'am" without speculation of what actually happened.

The author drops hints of things like "consistent with the lab-leak hypothesis" in the opening paragraphs, and uses the word "ostensibly" as to why this research into human-bat genetic virus/vaccines was being done.

That kind of speculation is our job once we analyze the leaked documents.

Posted by: jonku | Jan 12 2022 18:22 utc | 193

@64 Prof:

Yes. "Face Capitalism." It appears few can do this. But I'm optimistic that more and more are beginning to rise to the occasion as capitalism disintegrates and a new system must be instituted.

Posted by: lindaj | Jan 12 2022 18:32 utc | 194

karlof1 @222

I will thank you for your many past contributions/links etc., on this site especially with respect to geopolitical events.

Regarding the current issue, the point I tried to make @161 was that the usage of the word "immunity" had seemingly undergone a recent change.

I provided links to medical and biological sources for definitions which read:

"Immunity is a medical term that describes a state of having sufficient biological defenses to avoid infection, disease, or other unwanted biological invasion" and

"Immunity is a biological term that describes a state of having sufficient biological defences to avoid infection, disease, or other unwanted biological invasion."

This was, to my recollection, the common understanding of the term - until quite recently.

I do understand that the word is now being used quite differently - that was my point.

LuRenJia asked "Could anyone kindly provide a definition of "immunity" from some textbook or classical reference in the related field(s) that is a hardcopy/physical book published at least 5 years ago ?!"

I think the point there was to see how medical, biological, etc., texts defined the term immunity in the past and to check it against the recent usage. (Apologies to LuRenJia if I am incorrect.)

My recollection is that if you were said to be medically or biologically immune to something 10 or 20 years ago (or more), it meant you could not catch that something: it did not used to mean that you might resist it but would ultimately succumb.

Perhaps my recollection is flawed - it happens at my age.

In any case, I have nothing else to add to this issue.

Posted by: spudski | Jan 12 2022 18:44 utc | 195


"Prohibit employers from requiring staff to be vaccinated against Covid-19

Make it illegal for any employer to mandate vaccination for its employees. This should apply to all public sector (including the NHS, armed forces, care workers), third sector and all private sector."

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 12 2022 18:49 utc | 196

@ what is now 205 c1ue and @ karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 17:44 utc | 209... thanks guys... i am in agreement with all that.. thanks for saying it..

Posted by: james | Jan 12 2022 18:54 utc | 197

Posted by: FuckYourPandemic | Jan 12 2022 17:28 utc | 206

Thanks for that correction, interesting theory. I'd adjust to "we are all going to have an encounter with the virus eventually." Better?

Posted by: juliania | Jan 12 2022 18:57 utc | 198

@FuckYourPandemic #199
While there is a grain of truth, your overall message is 100% wrong.
COVID exists; it is killing more people overall than would have otherwise died.
The point isn't that COVID is "not lethal" (it is), or that it is "old people only" (largely true but not 100% true), or even that COVID is here to stay.
The point has always been:
What is actually avoidable and what are the costs to achieve whatever "avoidable" death prevention?
What are the processes, people and informed consent for the examination of the choices above and the resultant policy decisions?
What we have seen so far is ham-handed, inept, politically motivated, and unsuccessful flip flopping and manufactured consent - which doesn't even have the distinction of having achieved a damn thing.
Can anyone seriously say that the policies to date have been of any success whatsoever?

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 12 2022 19:09 utc | 199

jonku | 210

"That kind of speculation is our job once we analyze the leaked documents."

Yes, but not in this place, apparently.

Good luck, B, with sanitizing THIS thread. john | 188 is still there, I think that needs to go, too.

And good luck also for the next time around you drag your bones to the nearest "Impfzentrum"!


Posted by: Out-Door | Jan 12 2022 19:12 utc | 200

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