Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 11, 2022

The Danger Of Subjective Reading Of Covid News

This site has linked and quoted pieces by Alastair Crooke, a 'former' MI6 agent and diplomat. Crooke writes a weekly comment for the allegedly Russian financed Strategic Culture Foundation website.

(Sidenote: Independent writers for the SCF, like Russia expert Patrick Armstrong, have come under undue pressure from the U.S. government to quit. Patrick had reason to fear serious consequences and did so.)

Alastair Crooke is an expert on Middle East issues and an outside of the box thinker. But he also, at times, gets things wrong. In several recent pieces he has combined measures against the Covid-19 pandemic and big money lobbying into some global conspiracy theory in which the Bill Gates' of this world want to enslave all other people.

In his latest piece, The Double Helix of Entwined Pandemic and Economic Strategy, Crooke goes off to even greater nonsense. He writes (emphasis added):

[T]hough ‘following the science’ is the mantra, these measures make no sense: the Omicron variant predominantly infects the double vaxxed, not the unvaxxed. This is never admitted.

That, dear friends, is 'never admitted' because it is utter nonsense.

The link Crooke provides goes to a piece in the Epoch Times, an anti-China rag financed by the Falun Gong cult and best know for promoting Donald Trump. The Epoch Times writer of the piece linked by Crooke is one Naveen Athrappully 'a news reporter covering business and world events at The Epoch Times'.

Headlined - Omicron Spreads Faster Than Delta Within Vaccinated Individuals: Danish Study - the piece is generally correct. However its lead in can be misunderstood:

A Danish study of nearly 12,000 households has discovered that Omicron spreads faster than Delta among those who are fully vaccinated, and even faster between those who have received booster shots, indicating the variant’s ability to better dodge vaccine-induced immunity. Unvaccinated individuals were about as susceptible to infection as vaccinated. Those with a booster were less susceptible.

The highlighted half-sentence is imprecise and leads to misinterpretations.

The half-sentence does NOT mean that those who have had a booster shot get Covid at a higher rate than those who are unvaccinated or had two doses of vaccine. It does mean that the Omicron variant is better at breaking the immunity barrier than the Delta variant even in people who have received a booster shot.

A look into the original of the Danish study at medRXiv, to which Epoch Times provides a link, supports that interpretation.

The study used detailed statistical data, well available in Denmark, to measure the secondary attack rate of Covid cases of the two virus variants.

It looks at households where one person was infected with Covid-19 and then checks if, within a week, a second person in the same household was also infected (a 'secondary attack' in epidemiology speech). This 'Secondary Attack Rate' (SAR) is then differentiated between the Omicron variant of concern (VOC) and Delta as the virus variant that caused the first and secondary infection. The study also looks at the vaccination status of the secondary infected person.

The abstract of the study already contradicts Alastair Crooke's interpretation:

Among 11,937 households (2,225 with the Omicron VOC), we identified 6,397 secondary infections during a 1-7 day follow-up period. The SAR was 31% and 21% in households with the Omicron and Delta VOC, respectively. We found an increased transmission for unvaccinated individuals, and a reduced transmission for booster-vaccinated individuals, compared to fully vaccinated individuals.

Omicron is more prone than Delta to attack additional people in households where one person is infected. Unvaccinated individuals are most susceptible for a secondary infection. Vaccinated people less so and boostered people have the lowest chance of becoming a casualty of a secondary attack. That is the opposite of what Crooke falsely claims.

The main purpose of the study was to see how much more infectious Omicron is when compared to Delta:

Comparing households infected with the Omicron to Delta VOC, we found an 1.17 (95%-CI: 0.99-1.38) times higher SAR for unvaccinated, 2.61 times (95%-CI: 2.34-2.90) higher for fully vaccinated and 3.66 (95%-CI: 2.65-5.05) times higher for booster-vaccinated individuals, demonstrating strong evidence of immune evasiveness of the Omicron VOC.

Our findings confirm that the rapid spread of the Omicron VOC primarily can be ascribed to the immune evasiveness rather than an inherent increase in the basic transmissibility.

The vaccinations protected well, but not completely, against infections with the Delta variant. They however fail to protect more often against the Omicron variant. This does not mean that the vaccinations generally fail to protect. It also does not mean that those vaccinated are more susceptible to get infected than the unvaccinated (i.e. the opposite is true).

It does mean that the Omicron variant is evading the immune protection that the vaccinations created more often than the Delta variant does.

As the results of the Danish study conclude:

Generally, the estimated SAR was higher for the Omicron VOC than for the Delta VOC, for all age groups. Unvaccinated potential secondary cases experienced similar attack rates in households with the Omicron VOC and the Delta VOC (29% and 28%, respectively), while fully vaccinated individuals experienced secondary attack rates of 32% in household with the Omicron VOC and 19% in households with the Delta VOC. For booster-vaccinated individuals, Omicron was associated with a SAR of 25%, while the corresponding estimate for Delta was only 11%.

People vaccinated with two doses (fully vaccinated) became secondary cases just as often as the unvaccinated. (But the severity of the disease is generally less for vaccinated people.) People who had received two doses and a booster shot had much less chance to become a secondary case. The booster shot obviously helped.

This is said even more explicit in the discussion section in that paper:

Furthermore, we show that fully vaccinated and booster-vaccinated individuals are generally less susceptible to infection compared to unvaccinated individuals (Table 2).

Why Crooke misinterpreted the Epoch Times text is hard to understand. It is probably a case where someone wanted to read a confirmation of their preconceived believes even as the text did not confirm those at all.

That can, on a bad day, happen to all of us.


This week Moon of Alabama is asking you, dear reader, to support this site. Please do so as well as you can.

Posted by b on January 11, 2022 at 10:33 UTC | Permalink

« previous page

Took the broom and cleaned up a bit.

Numbering will have changed.


Posted by: b | Jan 12 2022 19:31 utc | 201

spudski @200--

Thanks very much for your reply! I see nothing wrong with the definitions you supplied. Essentially, they are the same as those I supplied. IMO, the issue isn't that definitions have changed; rather, it's that the public conflates the medical definition of immunity with the legal, which is invincibility--no harm can be done to one who is immune/has immunity. Reality has taught us otherwise.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 19:32 utc | 202

Here's a curious study those of us who imbibe will enjoy, "Cannabis could prevent Covid, study claims", nor is that the only study that's been done.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 12 2022 19:36 utc | 203

excellent point karlof1. i was wondering where BM got that "gold standard".

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 12 2022 19:37 utc | 204

if weed prevents covid i'm golden.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 12 2022 19:44 utc | 205

AND let the truth be told! Here is an open letter by a medical critical thinker .....who also happens to be unafraid to tell truth to power.

Open letter by:

Professor Udi Qimron, Faculty of Medicine, Tel Aviv University

Open Letter to the Ministry of Health

Professor Ehud Qimron, head of the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at Tel Aviv University and one of the leading Israeli immunologists, has written an open letter sharply criticizing the Israeli – and indeed global – management of the coronavirus pandemic.

".......You slandered colleagues who did not surrender to you, you turned the people against each other, divided society and polarized the discourse. You branded, without any scientific basis, people who chose not to get vaccinated as enemies of the public and as spreaders of disease. You promote, in an unprecedented way, a draconian policy of discrimination, denial of rights and selection of people, including children, for their medical choice. A selection that lacks any epidemiological justification.

When you compare the destructive policies you are pursuing with the sane policies of some other countries — you can clearly see that the destruction you have caused has only added victims beyond the vulnerable to the virus. The economy you ruined, the unemployed you caused, and the children whose education you destroyed — they are the surplus victims as a result of your own actions only.........

Posted by: James Cook | Jan 12 2022 19:45 utc | 206

Posted by: LuRenJia | Jan 12 2022 16:22 utc | 187 who asks for a definition of immunity from a text at least 5 years back:

I can at least provide from a tattered Webster 5th edition (no front cover or pages but perhaps issued in the late'40's):

1. Freedom or exemption from any charge, duty, tax, etc.
2. State or power of resisting the development of a (given) disease, esp. of resisting infecting microorganisms or their products. Active immunity is acquired through production of antibodies within the immune organism; passive immunity, by injection of serum from another individual. --Syn. See Exemption.

My observation would be that transmission is a separate concept from immunity, as even not considered an issue when polio vaccines were administered. Disease transmission isn't specifically considered under the Webster definition of transmission at this point, though the definition of 'vaccinization' is : "Med. Vaccination by repeated inoculation with the virus."

So, the current official description ought to be called "Vaccinization"??

Posted by: juliania | Jan 12 2022 19:51 utc | 207

Thank all who replied to my inquiry.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Jan 12 2022 20:08 utc | 208

Yesterday someone published here some videos of crowds demonstrating in several German, and other European cities, against the vaccine mandates. The videos linked to a Telegram channel.

Some commenters found it very encouraging.

Well, today the German Interior Minister calls for banning Telegram.

Take your own conclusions.

Posted by: Charlotte | Jan 12 2022 20:30 utc | 209

Charlotte 211
Go to youtube and seacrch 'vaccine / passport protests around the world,' for the past month.

Absolutely massive!
Hundreds of videos from protests around the world
here are 3

Posted by: ld | Jan 12 2022 20:50 utc | 210

karlof1 @203

Thanks for your reply.

Posted by: spudski | Jan 12 2022 20:51 utc | 211

so there seems to be a media blackout of the rationing of basic goods across australia, has anyone been to the shops?

previously, people hoarding toilet paper was very big news!

real rationing is not news?

not fear porning, we remain a very lucky country in terms of food, water, raw materials, etc - nobody needs to starve. but is this actually happening??

Posted by: Rae | Jan 12 2022 21:48 utc | 212

pretzelattack @206

Hear, hear. I even recall near the beginning of the panic, b expressed his delight that nicotine had been shown to kill the virus in question.

I recall you mentioning that you had shed some weight recently, b; have you managed to kick the coffin nails yet?
Thanks again for keeping the bar open.

Posted by: robjira | Jan 12 2022 23:19 utc | 213

Posted by: MOA=CoVidiotsUnited | Jan 12 2022 22:09 utc | 218

they also massively inflated, by as much as 900%, the number of "CoVid cases" by knowingly, deliberately, using a "test", PCR, which was in no way suitable for use as a diagnostic "test" according to the very person that invented it. He strictly advised against ever using PCR for diagnostic purposes.

So what if PCR is not good for diagnosis? The symptoms of a serious case of covid alone are sufficient for diagnosis.

What you are complaining about is the method of counting cases. The PCR test doesn't tell you if a person currently has covid or if they had it last week or the week before, but for the purposes of counting cases what does that matter? What should be obvious is that many covid are mild and those infections were often not tested (and thus never counted) and even if the symptoms were not mild often testing was difficult to obtain. If anything the number of covid cases has persistently been underestimated.

It is really a toss up between the stupid things that the CDC and FDA says and the stupid things the covid deniers say.

Posted by: jinn | Jan 12 2022 23:57 utc | 214

Well I long thought about posting here at all, but here I go. To those telling that covid is not a big deal, gimme a break. I got a christmas gift from omicron lately. Flu like symptoms started Dec 23 but an antigen test at Dec 24 was negative. It is usual for Omicron not to show up in tests for days so I stayed suspecting.

Symptoms level rose over the holidays, not dramatic, sneezing, some coughing, transparent exsudations, not putrid or eosinophile. I took aspirin, and loratadine against obvious allergic overshooting reactions. That remained my main, intermittent medication over all of the period. An antigen test on Dec 27 eventually prove positive. I was not unprepared to stay isolated for a protracted period of about 28 days so it was no problem.

In fact the authorities or health management cared wet shit. I tried to find out where to find a place for PCR test. There is a "national covid hotline 115117!" in Germany. It took me about 7 hours fight with the phone computers to find out that there is no support at all. In case of emergency I was advised to call 112 (ambulance), thank you. Else I should turn to my family doctor (who ofc was on his well deserved christmas-newyear leave). I even got a lady from the local CDC "Gesundheitsamt" at the line who bluntly told me that tests were not their business, but left to my personal initiative "Eigeninitiative". I suspect that those poor girls get brainwashing courses where such bubbles are implanted in their defenseless brains.

Actually, I could have gone to groceries and other non controlled public places, and infected everyone, and people with less resilience and education even might have done so. My aim was twofold: first, get healthy again, second, get a PCR test to prove that I had covid. Only then, I could escape control terror and vaccination pressure for the 5 months after recovery. German covid rules are on top of idiocy. Being vaxxed you had no duty to undergo antigen tests, so you haven't when "boostered" for 6 months so far. A recovered person, though proven widely immune for a year at least in most cases, enjoys the same privilege for 5 months, starting 29 days from last positive PCR test.

Yet getting a PCR test was a kafkaesque experience. When my family doctor eventually reopened Jan 3, I learnt that as a corona suspect I was not allowed to enter his clinic (ofc as all him and his personnel would count as "contact persons" else and the clinic be closed and quarantined. The good man (all superior powers praise him) had the escape path to test infected patience in the stairwell before the clinic, so I eventually got my PCR test which prove positive a day later. So I shall be officially accepted recovered from Feb 1 on to July 3. Hooray!

Some notes about the disease: Fever was present all time albeit not dramatic, maximum 38.6C axillar, usually in the 37 to 37.8 range. Different levels of pain, belly, abdomen, limbs, but mainly feeling of weakness and fatigue, sleeping and dozing up to 18 hrs per day. Not really fun. Mind that I am over 70, and my worst diseases were a few flu, one tropical malaria, one pneumonia, and one pancreatitis (the latter the only one requiring hospitalization, and long ago). Among those infections, the pancreatitis was worst, with covid next, followed by the pneumonia which was gone with antibiotics after a few days though fever peak was more dramatic.

Right now, and the days since Jan 4, I am free of fever, and other symptoms other than I sleep longer than before (ok 7-9hrs so not dramatic). Normal appetite is back, and official quarantine (counting from PCR test day) will end in 4 days so no more house arrest :). All the "health authorities" did was sending me a few stupid letters. But at least I officially had covid, hooray.

I don't know whether epidemic management is worse anywhere else. Not that I am curious. I wonder why b is ignoring that. Anyway, when out of house arrest I shall send him a support cheque, not much, I am not rich. But consider the same even if you disagree to his covid stance as much as I do.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jan 12 2022 23:58 utc | 215

221 aquadraht
replace "patience" by patients. Damn spell checkers, and if any possible, implement editing of postings.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jan 13 2022 0:06 utc | 216

The death numbers have not been “inflated”. In fact, they have been undercounted—by a factor of 1.4 for countries that report all-cause mortality data and an estimated factor of 2–4 for the entire world:

Tracking excess mortality across countries during the COVID-19 pandemic with the World Mortality Dataset (eLife, Ariel Karlinsky & Dmitry Kobak, June 30, 2021)

The latest updates to the charts are available here.

Posted by: S | Jan 13 2022 0:07 utc | 217

Tel Aviv University of Medicine (Tel Aviv) Refuses to Reject Donations From Sackler Family Embroiled in Opioids Crisis

Ehud Qimron is a microbiologist at Sackler University of Medicine. the professor is not a virologist.

You refused to adopt the “Barrington Declaration”, signed by more than 60,000 scientists and medical professionals, or other common-sense programs.

The ongoing destruction due to the inability to admit this mistake, despite the epidemic’s small mortality numbers, is outrageous. History will judge the hysteria (publ. Sept. 2020).

Posted by: Ou | Jan 13 2022 0:09 utc | 218

224 Oui

You seem stupid and fanatic. I do not know Prof. Qimron, thus won't comment on his account.

But microbiology is the generic term for all disciplines below, like virology, bacteriology, fungology, parasitology, and the likes.

You are simply clueless, but loud. Go away.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jan 13 2022 0:24 utc | 219

I'm continuing to read the August 13 2021 DARPA report about Covid's actual source.

Trying to keep these posts short.

Up to page 3 of 24 ... here are the relevant bits so far.

Being defence-related, it makes sense that EcoHealth submitted the proposal first to the Department of Defense, before it settled with NIH/NIAID. The BAA response is dated March 2008 and was submitted by Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance.

DARPA rejected the proposal because the work was too close to violating the gain-of-function (GoF) moratorium despite what Peter Daszak says in the proposal (that the work would not). As is known, Dr. Fauci with NIAD did not reject the proposal. The work took place at WIV and at several sites in the US, identified in detail in the proposal.

The [proposal] is placed along with other proposal documents in the PREEMPT folder on the DARPA … (top secret) share drive. … This folder was empty for a year. … The files … were placed in this folder in July 2021, which conspicuously aligns with media reporting, my probing, and Senator Paul’s inquiry into … gain-of-function programs. The unmarked nature combined with the timing signals that the documents were being hidden.
2. SARS-Cov-2, hereafter referred to as SARSr-CoV-WIV, is a synthetic spike protein chimera engineered to attach to human ACE2 receptors and inserted int a recombinant bat SARSr-Cov backbone.
…It leaked and spread rapidly because it was aerosolized. … it is less a virus than it is engineered spike proteins hitch-hiking a ride on a SARSr-CoV quasispecies swarm.

Next post: "The utility of certain countermeasures" i.e. they made it hard to treat.

Posted by: jonku | Jan 13 2022 0:53 utc | 220

Continuing to read the August 13 2021 DARPA report.

It's from a Major Joseph Murphy, Marine Program Liaison, Office of Naval Research.

The PDF is his cover letter, and the 5-page report, one page footnotes, and I assume copies of the 2018 Draszak proposal. Note: I mistakenly typed 2008 in my previous post.

Murphy states that as at DARPA "the pandemic response became the predominant focus of my fellowship efforts", he sat in a lot of meetings, and started to guess that the virus might actually be human-engineered.

"... feasible that the US would try to ... avoid outbreak by stopping it at its source ... by halting the infections amongst the bats. Americans are creative, even if imprudent, and technologically confident enough to try it."

He guessed where the files might be stored, and found them. The Draszak proposal is the basis for his report, showing exactly what they did to create this virus/bat vaccine. How it got out into the world is not covered.

Nor is there any explanation as to why they would try to make it immune to monoclonal antibodies. Incidentally Major Murphy's report is meant as guidance towards treatment, not vaccination as the US response.

Also, the Draszak proposal notes that the virus/vaccine viral replication is inhibited by interferon, Remdesivir and chloroquine phosphate.

Murphy states later that we now know Ivermectin "(identified as a curative in April 2020)" inhibits viral replication and also modulates the immune response.

Posted by: jonku | Jan 13 2022 1:32 utc | 221

In response to
if weed prevents covid i'm golden.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 12 2022 19:44 utc | 206

I consume 1/2 gram of hash daily for pain management and am glad not to be on narcotics.
I still got the flu but didn't test positive for Covid when PCR tested on days 6 and 13 from onset....but was taking Ivermectin protocol as well.

I wish my "golden" was fun like the "old days".


Going back to the evolving Covid story

I am glad to read that the DARPA expose about them knowing Ivermectin was effective across the spectrum of infection seems to be growing. Thanks to other barflies for adding meet from that exposure of the lies.

I studied planning methodologies back in college 50+ years ago and did future studies. The question I have about Covid is, now that there is enough information out there about the lies and deception that screams out that there is some centralized planning and project management going on,

Is it 3LA's, military, private think tanks, God of Mammon back room, or combinations of the above/other things?

It would be fun to see some leaks about the technology and systems used to manage this shit show we are seeing the frayed curtain edges of....but I digress

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 13 2022 2:16 utc | 222

psychohistorian, I urge you to read the 5 pages of Major Murphy's report from this summer. I believe he was seconded from Naval Research to DARPA on a fellowship while he did this detective work.

He hypothesized, then discovered proof that DARPA was involved with the gain-of-function research authorized by Fauci, the stated goal of which was to create human coronaviruses, then attenuate them (make them less harmful) to be non-life-threatening, and use them to infect the Yunnan bats that were and are a bountiful source of coronaviruses.

He says "ostensibly" the final goal was to infect the bats with this virus/vaccine (artificial spike protein on bat coronavirus backbone) so the bats would develop immunity to coronaviruses and then would not be incubators for human-threatening viruses.

You can't make this stuff up.

Then Murphy goes on to say that he thinks that the precursor virus/vaccine was accidentally released, thus the pandemic. Also notes that trying to cure an artificial virus/vaccine containing the spike protein with another artificial vaccine/virus is a bad idea, since the body will generate its own spike proteins that are harmful, and also that the single similarity will not protect against other mutations.

Finally he also gives details about how the researchers planned to use animals as a testbed, first humanized mice and then "batified mice", to "attenuate" (make less dangerous) the vaccine/virus. But now, he says "Instead, it was done with the world's population."

It's a bit of a tough read as it is a scanned PDF of the report, with a big watermark printed on top of it. But it can be read.

Murphy goes into some detail about the scale and scope of the project(s) and how they were covered up. Some good clues there.

Posted by: jonku | Jan 13 2022 3:15 utc | 223

The covid moron said:
Covid case number have NEVER been counted on the basis of "sympthoms".

I never said they were. The fact that you even think I said that shows how dumb you really are.

Posted by: jinn | Jan 13 2022 3:19 utc | 224

For those discussing the covid dossier, just be aware that that shit is just US internal politics. Republicans are Trying to nail the Dems using same methods as those used against Trump.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 3:37 utc | 225

@ jonku | Jan 13 2022 3:15 utc | 232 with the link to major Murphy's report of the Covid situation....THANKS!!!!

Below is one sentence from the report
The reason the disease is so confusing is because it is less a virus than it is engineered spike proteins hitchhiking a ride on a SARSr-CoV quasispecies swarm.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 13 2022 3:41 utc | 226

The Major Murphy report linked to by jonku at 232 in the summary says that the report should provide "more than enough information to correct the existing pandemic strategy."

He also writes
Limiting disease transmission can be dropped as the implied strategic end, as it is not the actual problem, nor is it actually feasible. The strategy will then align early treatment protocols and prophylaxis with the known curatives as ways and means.

Please let this information make it into to the public conscious.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 13 2022 3:56 utc | 227

Amazing that these Darpa papers have been released and this blog won't talk about them. Also wondering if B is pro mandate?

Posted by: james c | Jan 13 2022 3:58 utc | 228

Nice that comments are allowed! Bad that an agenda is still followed. Sad that we have to discuss this ad nauseam. It would be so much better, if people were just left to judge for themselves. This paternalistic, overbearing treatment of grown people is unbecoming. Combined with lies, coercion, force, stupidity, illogic, censorship and mandate makes it intolerable.
That this does not spur violent reactions on a wide scale is incomprehensible.
That this publication has jumped on that wagon is remarkable and surprising, and goes to show how the propaganda and pressure has permeated even areas that should have been immune.
It can happen to all of us?
Hopefully not.

Posted by: g wiltek | Jan 13 2022 4:31 utc | 229

@234 Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 3:37 utc

Are you saying this DARPA document is a fake? Project Veritas is stating on its website that it obtained it through a Freedom of Information request:
Military Documents About Gain of Function Contradict Fauci Testimony Under Oath

I'm open to that possibility but this seems like some pretty public collateral if someone's running a scam.


For those who would like to download the pdf file without having an account at Scribd, you can get it here for the next 30 days:
project-veritas-expose-fauci-lab-leak-report.pdf [7.38Mb]

I find it a lot easier to read on the desktop than online. Note that I haven't studied it yet, but this is the document in question - many thanks for the original upload.

Posted by: Grieved | Jan 13 2022 4:36 utc | 230

Grieved 240
I am too tired to try and find its background. Be wary. It matches what Repubs have been trying to pin on Fauci, China and Dems and now the smoking gun pops up.
I only looked through the first few pages which indicated it was an above board experiment that went wrong. Vaccinating bats or something along those lines. If that were the case there would be public records,and quite likely in medical/science journals.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 4:52 utc | 231

karlof1 #204,

regarding cannabis pummeling Covid, now there is legit reason to pass that joint around :-)

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jan 13 2022 4:53 utc | 232

Grieved 240

I went back to the web page in your link and actualy read that before again looking at the papers. This it me in the face like a golden shower.

"it violates the gain of function research moratorium"

There never has been a 'moratorium' on gain of function research in the US as far as I know. US government stopped giving grants to directly fund gain of function research, but that's it. Gain of function could still be conducted with other funds, even government funds that were given to a research facility for general research.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 5:13 utc | 233

@ Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 4:52 utc | 241 with the caution on the Major Murphy report

I admit to wanting a smoking gun to show up, and am not surprised about it at some level. As I wrote somewhere here today, there are folks behind the curtain maintaining the curtain, locks on parts of the historic past and managing the MSM reality that is spewed out in conflict with actual reality.

How deep is the well? I only know that the God of Mammon cult seem to have stayed behind the curtain for centuries now. They own the folks outing this information to some degree or another and time will tell us more about that, IMO.

I found the summary compelling and worth the read through the watermark.....YMMV

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 13 2022 5:14 utc | 234

@ Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 5:13 utc | 243 who is so on top of it

Yes, the moratorium was US Congress saying it wouldn't pass money for it directly anymore....any snake should be able to slither around that but it sells well in the MSM

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 13 2022 5:18 utc | 235


Due to the circumstances in around its appearance in Wuhan, I strongly feel that it is a made by the USA bug but as yet I have found no solid evidence.

Just one thing I would ask of your or anyone that has read right through it - is the interpretation I picked up in the first few pages correct?
"I only looked through the first few pages which indicated it was an above board experiment that went wrong. Vaccinating bats or something along those lines"

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 5:32 utc | 236

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 5:13 utc | 243

Hi PeterAU, nice to chat with you. Seriously.

Murphy said something like when Draszak asked DARPA for funding they refused based on safety concerns and GoF moratorium "too close to violating the gain-of-function (GoF) moratorium" -- footnoted as "vii ... team's approach does potentially involve GoF/DURC research ...".

Then he went to Fauci's NIAID who approved the funding.

Posted by: jonku | Jan 13 2022 5:34 utc | 237

@ Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 5:32 utc | 246 with the question about the purpose of the "project".

Yes, the summary I read said that they were trying to develop a vaccine for bats (don't ask why) and it leaked before they got it all together...short version

Again, the cult behind the curtain are social planners taking advantage of a situation to cover things like the bank bailouts since September, 2019.....quick, look over there.....oh, that was so yesterday.../s

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 13 2022 5:52 utc | 238

Thanks psychohistorian.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 13 2022 6:31 utc | 239

Posted by: g wiltek @ 239

You are bullying our host. Have some manners at this bar, Or else.

We don't all agree 'round here.

Posted by: Paul | Jan 13 2022 7:59 utc | 240

@MOA=CoVidiotsUnited #218
Your attempt to change the goalposts fails.
COVID is a pandemic by any sane measure. Perhaps you should look up what the term means.
Attempts to paint COVID as "not serious" only underscore the lack of credibility and critical thinking of the proponents; the same kind of idiotic "us vs them" nonsense that leads people to militate against masks.
Should masks be mandatory for all? Not so clear to me on the benefits, but the costs and harms are clearly quite low. People foaming at the mouth over masks are clearly letting their ideological baggage interfere with minimal common sense.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 13 2022 8:41 utc | 241

Wuhan Virology research and 58 other labs handle world's deadliest pathogens in a Biosafety Level 4 (BSL-4) laboratory.

Fauci Lies

Who says? Well people of Fox News, Red State, Tucker Carlson, and James O’Keefe of Project Veritas. The most biased, manipulative and unreliable people who brought us Trump & Co.

Meet the people bankrolling James O’Keefe’s group

Two donor-advised funds linked to the conservative movement’s most infamous petrochemical billionaires — Charles and David Koch — were the largest identifiable funding stream for Project Veritas.

William A. Dunn’s Foundation for the Advancement of Right Thinking (at least $100,000

And so on …

Posted by: Oui | Jan 13 2022 9:03 utc | 242

Fauci: If People Feel Those Guardrails Should Be Changed, Then Change Them

”Gain of function is a completely meaningless term, unless you put it into context.

What has happened is that years ago we paused all function on manipulating viruses which is absolutely essential part of virology, in order to get certain guardrails and guidelines about what constitutes research that in fact might be dangerous and needs special oversight.

It took three years of deliberation to set guardrails and guidelines to get rid of ambiguous and misleading term of gain of function, so that you can proceed with experiments if it falls within those guidelines. The NIH funded studies which were highly, highly peer-reviewed and felt to be very important to understand what the risk is…”

Posted by: Oui | Jan 13 2022 9:06 utc | 243

@MOA=CoVidiotsUnited #218
As for COVID deaths being overstated: I think this is likely true, but just because the government lies doesn't also mean COVID is a serious disease.
Only a simpleton must believe in only one or the other.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 13 2022 9:07 utc | 244

The shifting sands of ‘gain-of-function’ research | Nature - Oct. 21, 2021 |

In 2015, virologists led by Ralph Baric at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill reported the creation of their own chimaera. They took a version of the coronavirus responsible for the deadly outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in the early 2000s — now known as SARS-CoV — and adorned it with surface proteins from a different coronavirus taken from Chinese horseshoe bats. In the laboratory, this particular mash-up was able to break into human cells and also make mice ill1. This chimaera came with a message: other coronaviruses have the potential to spark a human pandemic.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 13 2022 9:07 utc | 245

At Tuesday's Senate Health Committee hearing …

Fauci replied: “What came out last night in Project Veritas was a grant that was submitted to DARPA, they distorted it to say we funded the grant. We have never seen that grant and we have never funded that grant.”

The Pentagon setup and funded 200 high risk Biosecurity labs on foreign soil, often on former Soviet States such as Almaty in Kazachstan.

In a sensational statement in October 2018, Major General Igor Kirillov, the commander of Russia's Radiological, Chemical and Biological Defense Troops went to the extent of disclosing a discernible pattern of the network of Pentagon labs being located near the borders of Russia and China.

The unassumingly-named Central Reference Laboratory (CRL) in Almaty figuring in the Tass report was originally planned in 2013 with the US investing $102 million in a biosecurity lab to study some of the most deadly pathogens that could potentially be used in bioterrorism attacks.

But the CRL, now operational, is anchored on institutional cooperation between Kazakh government and the US Defense Threat Reduction Agency under the the Pentagon, which is tasked with protecting "US National Security interests in a rapidly evolving, globalised threat environment to enable a greater understanding of our adversaries and provide solutions to WMD threats in an era of Great Power Competition."


The United States is not alone in funding overseas labs. The French Institute Pasteur is deeply involved in Biosecurity design of the Wuhan Lab in China.

“This Memorandum of Understanding aims to reinforce cooperation between France and China in the field of infectious disease prevention and control. The fight against highly pathogenic infectious agents, such as the Ebola virus, and scientific research in Biosafety Level 3 and level 4 laboratories were cited as key areas of Sino-French collaboration.”

Posted by: Oui | Jan 13 2022 9:10 utc | 246

@Oui #254
Have you actually read the emails?
The sources aren't objective, but frankly there are no objective sources in the mainstream media today. CNN is far, far worse than anyone else, for example.
The point of the emails is that it is 100% clear that Fauci and others were actively trying to promote the "natural" origin despite the stated doubts of several experts also in the discussion.
It does not mean the lab leak theory is correct - but it does mean that Fauci is nothing more than an ass-covering bureaucrat (which he is) who never cared about the science so much as ensuring there could be no negative blowback, regardless of "science" or "reality".
That's all these emails really show - not that this should surprise anyone at this point.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 13 2022 9:13 utc | 247

"Djokovic, is pronounced as Jokovich,."
Posted by: Paul | Jan 13 2022 9:02 utc | 253

Paul, in 1969 I received orders to Vietnam. I wrote to my brother that I was
going to Saigon to be stationed at Tan Son Nhut (pronounced Tan Son Nhut)...

So how is Jokovich pronounced?

Posted by: waynorinorway | Jan 13 2022 11:59 utc | 248

Psychohistorian @ 238, probably originally @ 247 or 248:

I recall reading somewhere online that Chinese miners working in Yunnan entered a cave and picked up an infection from bats living there through breathing in dust (contaminated with dry rrmnants of bat faeces). The miners died not long afterwards. That incident could be part of the reason for the research into bat coronaviruses with the aim of developing vaccines for bats.

As more remote parts of the world are opened up for mining, industry, tourism or encroaching suburbs of large cities (read: rich people fleeing inner city areas with restive poor folks), people are coming into contact more and more with unfaniliar ecosystems and the microbes the inhabitants of those ecosystems harbour. Unless those inhabitants include migratory birds capable of long-distance flights, most of them would not travel outside their ecosystems much and their microbes would stay with them. A vaccine or vaccines administered to those animals to control their microbes and diseases before they come into contact with much more mobile humans might make sense.

To take one example, Chagas disease is endemic to rural areas in Paraguay and neighbouring parts of Brazil and Argentina where the insect that spreads the parasite causing it lives in local ecosystems. Over the past 20 years (and maybe more), the disease has spread to the US with migrants coming up through Bolivia and Peru and through the isthmus into Central America and Mexico, often by hitching rides, being smuggled by gangs and/or walking; and with tourists who go on eco-adventures into remote parts of South America.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 14 2022 20:20 utc | 249

B: "That would have been even more catastrophic for those societies with many overweight, diabetes or older people."

Catastrophic situation for any society is if young are sacrificed. No kids, no future. Covid or no Covid, "overweight, diabetes or older people" are bound to die before schoolchildren.

To clear my name, I am 60+, 3 vaccines in order to keep my job.

That does not change the fact greatest sin of all is to sacrifice children in order to give "overweight, diabetes or older people." a few more months or years to live. When have we become so selfish? Evolution is worse than karma - he who does not care for his offspring will disappear from Earth.

Posted by: zidar | Jan 14 2022 22:12 utc | 250

I don't see the point of this article. It just seems like a smear piece on Alastair Crooke.

B states that Crooke used to work for MI6 (Crooke has never attempted to hide this) and puts quotation marks around the word 'former'. This seems to me to be an unworthy attempt to suggest that Crooke is still working for MI6 and to devalue (by association) his opinions.

I do not understand b's inclusion of the 'sidenote' in the article. B use of the term 'Independent writers for the SCF, like Russia expert Patrick Armstrong...' seems to suggest that Crooke is not 'independent' and is not of the same stature as Armstrong. B goes on to suggest that writers like Armstrong 'have come under undue pressure from the U.S. government to quit' which is obviously intended to show Crooke in an unfavourable light. But, Crooke is British and (as far as I am aware) does not reside in the US and is, therefore, like many other writers for Strategic Culture (such as e.g. Pepe Escobar), outside the reach of these US threats. I really doubt that Patrick Armstrong would welcome being used as a more favourable comparator to Alastair Crooke.

Obviously, it is Crooke's evolving view on the 'pandemic' and 'The Great Reset' that are the real source of b's chagrin. Hmmm, I wonder what Patrick Armstrong has to say about the 'disease' that has been ravaging the world for the last few years? Well, there's this from Armstrong's most recent article:

"I have long been puzzled why Putin has evidently fallen for the COVID hoax (yes, Virginia, there’s a disease there but it’s not very deadly and mostly kills people with one foot in the grave. I’m just a simpleton who looks at the data: check out Canada’s official data on ages of deceased.) I think that Waggaman is on to something here: Putin may be, as Atlas might put it, being “Trumped”."

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 15 2022 0:31 utc | 251

Authoritarian plans are failing in Russia as well

Russia shelves plans for nationwide vaccine passports

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 15 2022 10:15 utc | 252

That does not change the fact greatest sin of all is to sacrifice children in order to give "overweight, diabetes or older people." a few more months or years to live. When have we become so selfish? Evolution is worse than karma - he who does not care for his offspring will disappear from Earth.

Posted by: zidar | Jan 14 2022 22:12 utc | 250

Yep. It's those 15-25 year old women you need to help and worry about if you want a future for the species, nobody else is going to get the job done for you.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 15 2022 10:48 utc | 253

Yep. It's those 15-25 year old women you need to help and worry about ...

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 15 2022 10:48 utc | 253


Dr. Strangelove --- Living Underground

Posted by: too scents | Jan 15 2022 11:30 utc | 254

A Boy and His Dog:

A Boy and His Dog

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 15 2022 11:50 utc | 255

"It is probably a case where someone wanted to read a confirmation of their preconceived believes even as the text did not confirm those at all.

That can, on a bad day, happen to all of us."

Well said b that's very true. The way human cognition works, and other mammals quite likely, is as follows.

A) An object or concept is identified.

B) We emotionally react to it before it is even a conscious thought. Sort of like priming.

C) We then go through a process of rationalizing why we feel that way about it.

We "feel" that something is correct. That's not to say our executive function are insignificant or don't moderate the process.

The point is that emotions and reasoning are inseparable. Further, your thinking methods and limits are heavily determined first by the nature of the universe locally.

Second, we think very similarly to all mammals. Abstract thinking ability and intrinsic language abilities are a big topic but that is layered over these core traits.

There's no escaping bias and the skewing of your views. You can be highly aware of it but will do it anyways.

What happens is the same sh+t on a higher level of abstraction. For example, training in psychology and neurology doesn't fix a person. It just creates ever more subtle and nuanced denial mechanisms.

Intelligence does not trump personality and emotional make up. It's just a tool in a manner of speaking.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jan 21 2022 8:45 utc | 256

Intelligence does not trump personality and emotional make up. It's just a tool in a manner of speaking.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jan 21 2022 8:45 utc | 256

Yes, the fact is we are big apes, mammals, entirely a product of this world, and we will get along better when we stop pretending we are something else, and that we are all that much better than our fellow creatures, great and small, or worst of all that we don't need them, and each other, because we do. In other words, a lot more humility.

Not likely, eh?.

And people who try to make you angry or afraid or jealous are not your friends, ever. That idea will serve you well anywhere you go.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 29 2022 10:44 utc | 257

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