Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 11, 2022

The Danger Of Subjective Reading Of Covid News

This site has linked and quoted pieces by Alastair Crooke, a 'former' MI6 agent and diplomat. Crooke writes a weekly comment for the allegedly Russian financed Strategic Culture Foundation website.

(Sidenote: Independent writers for the SCF, like Russia expert Patrick Armstrong, have come under undue pressure from the U.S. government to quit. Patrick had reason to fear serious consequences and did so.)

Alastair Crooke is an expert on Middle East issues and an outside of the box thinker. But he also, at times, gets things wrong. In several recent pieces he has combined measures against the Covid-19 pandemic and big money lobbying into some global conspiracy theory in which the Bill Gates' of this world want to enslave all other people.

In his latest piece, The Double Helix of Entwined Pandemic and Economic Strategy, Crooke goes off to even greater nonsense. He writes (emphasis added):

[T]hough ‘following the science’ is the mantra, these measures make no sense: the Omicron variant predominantly infects the double vaxxed, not the unvaxxed. This is never admitted.

That, dear friends, is 'never admitted' because it is utter nonsense.

The link Crooke provides goes to a piece in the Epoch Times, an anti-China rag financed by the Falun Gong cult and best know for promoting Donald Trump. The Epoch Times writer of the piece linked by Crooke is one Naveen Athrappully 'a news reporter covering business and world events at The Epoch Times'.

Headlined - Omicron Spreads Faster Than Delta Within Vaccinated Individuals: Danish Study - the piece is generally correct. However its lead in can be misunderstood:

A Danish study of nearly 12,000 households has discovered that Omicron spreads faster than Delta among those who are fully vaccinated, and even faster between those who have received booster shots, indicating the variant’s ability to better dodge vaccine-induced immunity. Unvaccinated individuals were about as susceptible to infection as vaccinated. Those with a booster were less susceptible.

The highlighted half-sentence is imprecise and leads to misinterpretations.

The half-sentence does NOT mean that those who have had a booster shot get Covid at a higher rate than those who are unvaccinated or had two doses of vaccine. It does mean that the Omicron variant is better at breaking the immunity barrier than the Delta variant even in people who have received a booster shot.

A look into the original of the Danish study at medRXiv, to which Epoch Times provides a link, supports that interpretation.

The study used detailed statistical data, well available in Denmark, to measure the secondary attack rate of Covid cases of the two virus variants.

It looks at households where one person was infected with Covid-19 and then checks if, within a week, a second person in the same household was also infected (a 'secondary attack' in epidemiology speech). This 'Secondary Attack Rate' (SAR) is then differentiated between the Omicron variant of concern (VOC) and Delta as the virus variant that caused the first and secondary infection. The study also looks at the vaccination status of the secondary infected person.

The abstract of the study already contradicts Alastair Crooke's interpretation:

Among 11,937 households (2,225 with the Omicron VOC), we identified 6,397 secondary infections during a 1-7 day follow-up period. The SAR was 31% and 21% in households with the Omicron and Delta VOC, respectively. We found an increased transmission for unvaccinated individuals, and a reduced transmission for booster-vaccinated individuals, compared to fully vaccinated individuals.

Omicron is more prone than Delta to attack additional people in households where one person is infected. Unvaccinated individuals are most susceptible for a secondary infection. Vaccinated people less so and boostered people have the lowest chance of becoming a casualty of a secondary attack. That is the opposite of what Crooke falsely claims.

The main purpose of the study was to see how much more infectious Omicron is when compared to Delta:

Comparing households infected with the Omicron to Delta VOC, we found an 1.17 (95%-CI: 0.99-1.38) times higher SAR for unvaccinated, 2.61 times (95%-CI: 2.34-2.90) higher for fully vaccinated and 3.66 (95%-CI: 2.65-5.05) times higher for booster-vaccinated individuals, demonstrating strong evidence of immune evasiveness of the Omicron VOC.

Our findings confirm that the rapid spread of the Omicron VOC primarily can be ascribed to the immune evasiveness rather than an inherent increase in the basic transmissibility.

The vaccinations protected well, but not completely, against infections with the Delta variant. They however fail to protect more often against the Omicron variant. This does not mean that the vaccinations generally fail to protect. It also does not mean that those vaccinated are more susceptible to get infected than the unvaccinated (i.e. the opposite is true).

It does mean that the Omicron variant is evading the immune protection that the vaccinations created more often than the Delta variant does.

As the results of the Danish study conclude:

Generally, the estimated SAR was higher for the Omicron VOC than for the Delta VOC, for all age groups. Unvaccinated potential secondary cases experienced similar attack rates in households with the Omicron VOC and the Delta VOC (29% and 28%, respectively), while fully vaccinated individuals experienced secondary attack rates of 32% in household with the Omicron VOC and 19% in households with the Delta VOC. For booster-vaccinated individuals, Omicron was associated with a SAR of 25%, while the corresponding estimate for Delta was only 11%.

People vaccinated with two doses (fully vaccinated) became secondary cases just as often as the unvaccinated. (But the severity of the disease is generally less for vaccinated people.) People who had received two doses and a booster shot had much less chance to become a secondary case. The booster shot obviously helped.

This is said even more explicit in the discussion section in that paper:

Furthermore, we show that fully vaccinated and booster-vaccinated individuals are generally less susceptible to infection compared to unvaccinated individuals (Table 2).

Why Crooke misinterpreted the Epoch Times text is hard to understand. It is probably a case where someone wanted to read a confirmation of their preconceived believes even as the text did not confirm those at all.

That can, on a bad day, happen to all of us.


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Posted by b on January 11, 2022 at 10:33 UTC | Permalink

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"The Danger Of Subjective Reading Of Covid News"

Oh, the irony.

Djokovic wins court case. Bitter, defeated Morrison considers nuclear option

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 11 2022 10:53 utc | 1

"That can, on a bad day, happen to all of us."


Posted by: Seby | Jan 11 2022 11:12 utc | 2

EU Parliament president dead at 65

"European Parliament President David Sassoli has died after a prolonged stay in the hospital due to an immune system dysfunction"

"Sassoli was also a high-level proponent of the EU’s digital Covid-19 certificate – which records individuals’ coronavirus testing, vaccination, and infection history – calling it “a symbol of what Europe stands for” while unveiling the project with fellow EU leaders last summer."

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 11 2022 11:19 utc | 3

@Norwegian 1

Yes Sassoli suffered in the past from leukaemia (according to euronews). The COD seems to be a a severe case of pneumonia.

So it's fair to say he died of COVID, but we do not know for sure.

Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 11 2022 11:29 utc | 4

Dear host,

thank you so much for linking to the Alistair Crooke article which delivers plenty of food for thought even if the thoughts might appear bold.

The fact that you pick up one (ONE) sentence from it and make a giant fuss about it is peculiar; nothing to say about the rest? All BS?

Crooke's theory is well shared by distinguished people who are more experienced with health issues; I just say Robert Kennedy, Robert Malone, Peter McCullough.

Meanwhile, the protests in Europe are continually rising; yesterday Germany saw more than 1000 "Monday walks" (in the tradition of the 1989 GDR movement) in various towns and cities. I was there, in Cologne. As opposed to the government propaganda, no rightwingers and Nazis there, just ordinary people. And I promise you, it will rise every week if the government doesn't stop its repressive policy.

Regarding the Omicron variant, let's talk about it in two or three weeks again. I find the statements of South African and Danish health authorities very convincing that it will mark the end of the pandemic: SARS-Cov2 has become endemic.

Posted by: Woody Box | Jan 11 2022 11:29 utc | 5

Alastair Crooke is not entirely wrong.

There is a pandemic going on. The virus does excist, people die from it, vaccine provide a level of protection and the publicly available numbers are generally correct, at least in their magnitude. This is real. Crooke either doesn`t fully comprehend or he -like so many- just chose to not "beliefe" it.

And there is a social, economic and political transformation caused by that pandemic. That are most of the part developments that have been going on for years that are now accelerated and partly modified by Covid.

And there is the attempt to deliberately use and modify this transformation in order to re-direct it into a specific direction. This is what Crooke is seeing. This mustn`t be underestimated and it would be wrong to choose not to "beliefe" it. Buy the book and read it for yourself. You have all the dystopia that Crooke describes, just painted in the most rosy clours of utopia.

Posted by: m | Jan 11 2022 11:33 utc | 6

The great reset is real, too.

This takes -partly- the form of a conspirancy. But in it`s core it`s not a conspirancy, an organisation, an ethnicity, a cult or anything like that. It´s an ideology.

[Sorry for the double-post. I unintentionally hit "Post" instead of "Preview", again.]

Posted by: m | Jan 11 2022 11:37 utc | 7

Woody Box | Jan 11 2022 11:29 utc | 5
Writing from South Africa.
My friends tell me that they felt bad for 3 - 4 days and then they were fine again.
I have not yet heard of one single death from the Omicron variant in my circle of friend and their families. Nobody has been hospitalised either.
It seems as if the vaccinated and those with previous immunity, are somewhat better protected than the unvaccinated, but not by much.
This variant seems to have outcompeted the other variants. It seems to be extremely easily transmitted, but, in comparison, quite mild.

Posted by: E | Jan 11 2022 11:39 utc | 8

I see my original post was removed in moderation. Perhaps it was misunderstood?

This cartoon parody of Nate Silver quite nearly sums up the covid19 discourse in a single panel ==>

Except it portrays the tragedy as being the death of the boy rather than the torture of statistics. I suppose that irony is there for the comedic punch.

Posted by: too scents | Jan 11 2022 11:55 utc | 9

Dear B,
thank you for pointing us to the Danish study. It confirms my suspicion that, contrary to the gospel in MSM, Omicron only has a marginally higher R0 (the Danish data would indicate 1.17x higher), and that the rapid spread of Omicron is fueled by the fact that it spreads to larger extend (as compared to Delta) in the vaccinated population. I understand also that it has a somewhat shorter incubation time, exacerbating that effect (this is however not corroborated in this Danish study).
However, re the efficacy of the vaccines against Omicron, I come to a different conclusion. To the extend that I wonder if you have actually read beyond abstract and summary and looked at the data. The SAR data (Table 1) does only show increased transmission for unvaccinated individuals for Delta but NOT for Omicron. Actually, it does show the reverse, with an SAR of 29% for unvaccinated vs. 32% for 'fully' vaccinated (but not boostered) individuals. Boostered SAR is marginally lower at 25%. But no error intervals are given, so it's impossible (for me) to say if this is statistically significant.
The odds ratios (Table 2) also show NO statistically significant increase in susceptibility of the vaccinated (0.87-1.24) as compared to the fully vaccinated. Booster shows around 50% efficacy against transmission here (1-0.54/1.04), in line with similar data from UK and Germany (RKI weekly report Jan. 6). Table 3 deals with a comparison of odds ratios of unvaccinated, vaccinated and boostered individuals between Omicron and Delta and does not allow to make direct comparisons of efficacy between unvaccinated vaccinated with Omicron.
So, in summary, Table 1 might support easier transmission to vaccinated individuals, Table 2 does not (but also does not prove the contrary). Nowhere in the study do I find the source for your claim But the severity of the disease was lower for vaccinated people. Your claim is in line with what I constantly hear on MSM, but I have not found the evidence for such a claim yet. The above mentioned RKI weekly report does break down hospitalization and deaths for Omicron (Table 5 in the RKI report) and I cannot find your claim proven there either. It does however show am markedly negative efficacy (vaccinated infected more commonly than unvaccinated, probably a behavioral effect, aka Superman syndrome). However, the data are preliminary and might be skewed by the lack of testing capacity over the holiday. It will be interesting to look at these figures again in two-three weeks.

Posted by: Stephan | Jan 11 2022 12:03 utc | 10

I'm sorry, I meant to only mark the quotes bold, misplaced the markers.

Posted by: Stephan | Jan 11 2022 12:07 utc | 11

RE:Posted by b on January 11, 2022 at 10:33 UTC | Permalink

"The Danger Of Subjective Reading..."

That applies to all datastreams but to paraphrase Mr. Orwell - some are more subjective than others.

All datastreams have utility for those with facility.

"Moderation/censorship" is based on the illusion that the "moderator" knows more about the subject than the commentator within an umbrella of purpose, which some conflate with “financing” as above, and qualitative facility inform "publication" and register including framing.

Consortium News, and to a lesser degree The Saker are examples of these phenomena; The Saker being a source of merriment for some as a consequence of the banner “Stop the Empire's War on Russia” which could lead some to believe that the site acts for and on behalf of the Russian Federation, or that The Saker has facilities not available to the Russian Federation.

Moon of Alabama does not moderate/censor content overtly except through framing which is likely not apparent to some, the framing being a derivative of moderation/censorship, but as a function of commenting this framing can be "moderated".

Commenting on content is not available on Strategic Culture Foundation for various purposes, including but not limited to, encouraging a wide "publication" of datastreams on matters "strategic" deemed "plausible belief", and critical facilities and/or confirmation bias in the "readership" to facilitate present and laterally interacting future agora.

To a limited degree this is part of an ongoing process of transcending "propaganda/perception management" which some deem to be "propaganda" - an example of telling the "truth" since most won't believe it.

One of the prime purposes of media is facilitated by the register that every page is a sports page encouraging emoting and/or binary thinking, rendering the “readership” prisoners of “measured time”.

The Russian Federation is neither "The Soviet Union" nor "The United States of America" but are co-operatively federated to achieve co-operative purposes.

Posted by: NotEuclid | Jan 11 2022 12:17 utc | 12

And the fundamental issue is one of communication. The vaccines were not designed to stop transmission nor to make it so that a vaccinated person is incapable of contracting Covid. Initial data suggested that they did so to some degree and this was wrongly trumpeted in the media and clung to by politicians. They were designed to prime the immune system for better defense against the virus, helping to create more mild cases and far fewer fatal cases. All the data suggests that they are effective at that, including against omicron.

Reducing transmission is a matter of implementing other public health measures. Those may become less over time with vaccine uptake, mutations which make the virus a bit less deadly, etc. American politicians like Biden who’ve promoted vaccines as the silver bullet are assholes and failed every bit as much as trump.

I’m an incident/emergency response professional as well as one who protects people against airborne contaminants. This is not some evil plot. It’s simply rank incompetence from political and career government leadership. The US has broken every well established rule of emergency response, its own rules. The ones it developed in the 50s and are used for every type of ER. Those rules on how to organize and implement a response work. But sometimes they make for difficult choices and require clear communication. So we just ignored them cause they’re hard.

It’s not a great reset, just the exposing of a failing system.

Posted by: Lex | Jan 11 2022 12:33 utc | 13

That b put 'former' MI6 agent in quotes earns him an extra + 40 €

Posted by: vato | Jan 11 2022 12:35 utc | 14

@Stephan -

Nowhere in the study do I find the source for your claim But the severity of the disease was lower for vaccinated people. Your claim is in line with what I constantly hear on MSM, but I have not found the evidence for such a claim yet.
I misformulated that and have change it now.

The above mentioned RKI weekly report does break down hospitalization and deaths for Omicron (Table 5 in the RKI report) and I cannot find your claim proven there either. It does however show am markedly negative efficacy (vaccinated infected more commonly than unvaccinated, probably a behavioral effect, aka Superman syndrome). However, the data are preliminary and might be skewed by the lack of testing capacity over the holiday. It will be interesting to look at these figures again in two-three weeks.

The vaccination rate is much higher in old people with comorbides than for young people. It is no wonder then that the hospitalization and death are dominated by the first category.

It does not say anything about the vaccination effect population wise which, from other statistics, seems to be there.

Posted by: b | Jan 11 2022 12:39 utc | 15

Meanwhile, the CDC is finally admitting the vaccines don't prevent transmission 'anymore'. Of course, the reality is that they never did.

Posted by: Ben | Jan 11 2022 12:43 utc | 16

@Stephen 10

Thank you for dissecting b's article wrt Danish data. Unless I missed it, b's never walked back any of his claims, if they have been shown to be incorrect.

I come to MoA not to get the truth or facts, but to get a view (hopefully) different from the MSM or the narrative sanctioned by TNI (you know the BBC brain-child). This helps me to better triangulate all that's out there for my own analysis.

I am probably not the only one to take b's COVID ramblings with a pinch of salt, but I was surprised to see this particular article. Seems its a 2nd rate hack-job on Crooke, which for the most part misses the main point i.e. not COVID but creeping totalitarianism.

Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 11 2022 12:43 utc | 17

I'm not sure why we are back here again. I consider myself fairly well uptodate with the c-thing and it is still far too complex to be framed as a simple event. There is a novel corona virus (since late 2019) of disputed origins and methods; there appear to be a number of mutation waves with each appearing to get less dangerous, as science suggested is the normal process, to the younger healthy cohorts without servere co-morbid conditions); and there are various stakeholders such as big technology, pharmacutical companies, and governments that have jumped on the opportunity to bring in new population controls methods that would appear to be competing with communist China for social credit efficacy. And all this risks being muddled with an effective collapse of the Western free-market based economic theory that fell into a sinkhole in the 2007-9 global fincancial crisis.

The most recent update for me was the Malone-Rogan podcast wherein it was explained that the earlier c-thing varients targeted the lower respiratory systems and had higher risk of micro blood clotting etc. The latest omni-c-thing appears to be targeting the upper respiratory system and therefore is trending towards joining the soup of viruses that maintain an ongoing relationship with the human race commonly known as colds, flu and influenza etc. Still deadly to those aged and infirm waiting in the departure lounge, but apparently less so for younger healthier people.

Anyone who suggests there are no conspiracies is part of the problem, imo. As are those who claim they can pin these down to simple globalist agenda etc. People like Dr. Mattias Desmet (Mass Formation Psychosis), Dr. Robert Malone, and Dr. Peter McCullough are experts in their respective fields and have something to say -- and what they say adds to the general scientific discourse. Those who try to suppress these voices need to account for themselves. There is only one simple binary that makes sense to me and that is between the criminal classes that have taken over many aspects of government and the common people working towards a commonwealth of viable futures.

I'm reasonably well educated and enjoy the scientific process working itself out. What I do not appreciate (in my mid-60's) is simple minded 'book burning' control-freaks getting into the control rooms and pressing their various semi-cult orientated views as 'facts' and policy. The greatest danger for me is the loss of open civil discussion and that should worry everyone. We are only 70 years away from the mid-20th century when this type of madness came to a world-war level head.

Posted by: imo | Jan 11 2022 12:44 utc | 18

One needs to differentiate the population into two groups …. accept the SARS CoV-2 virus is real and those who pertinently believe the virus is a hoax. I belong to the first group and it’s not difficult to find experts in the field of virology to learn the facts of infection risks and the decay over time in protection after vaccination.

The new variants, mutated virus, will become dominant because they managed to find a new key to infect the human cell. Each person is different in their immune system to cope with viruses. Each country in the western world sets their own policy whether to mitigate the infections or let it rip … nature and herd immunity.

I write from The Netherlands, thus in the last 23 months I have analyzed the problematic policy of Mark III Rutte. He was a fanboy of Trump and specifically of “clown” Boris Johnson. Their “experts” worked closely together and March 2020 their PR and policy were very similar, so were their failures.

Looking at England, BoJo pushed their Oxford designed AstraZeneca and tried to lead. Such an experiment leads in all pitfalls. AZ was less effective from the start and to lead BoJo made the choice to prioritize the first jab and delay the second vaccination. The result was that after the 2nd jab, AZ offered very much less protection than vaccines from Moderna and BioNTech.

In England the Delta virus and the present Omicron viruses had a easy path to find a new host to a large number of infected persons.

From Pfizer data in Israel, it became clear as early as June 2021 that a booster jab was needed. Still any of the vaccines offer full protection … it depends how each person’s immune system reacts. Today it appears a combination of being infected and getting a vaccination is the best trigger for immunity. Timely vaccinations and the third jab for the elderly and the vulnerable will limit suffering from illness and keeping away from an ICU.

As far as I have read and learned, in The Netherlands the unvaccinated represents 15% of the population, yet their occupancy in hospitals and especially the ICU is well above 75%. Whatever policy a nation follows, the virus will make it clear if there are sufficient hosts to spread further.

It was imperative for England to make the booster campaign a success because a double AZ vaccination offered <30% protection from the new variants. Belgium started their booster campaign from September and didn’t need to go into a December lockdown. The stupid conservative policy of Mark III Rutte failed to see the danger of Delta and Omicron, failed to start the booster campaign and had no choice but to go into another damaging lockdown from mid December until the present.

Fortunately this lockdown mitigated the spread of the Omicron virus, so the number of occupied hospital beds remains low. Luck of the very stupid.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 11 2022 12:45 utc | 19

@m - Alastair Crooke is not entirely wrong.

There is a pandemic. The U.S. and China, Israel and Iran, the Vatican, Mecca and Qom, god and the devil all agree about that and use the same non-pharmaceutical measures and vaccines to help as many to survive as practical.

There are also rich people who try to get richer. They do so all the time - pandemic or not - and use various excuses to justify what they are doing.

There is no need to spin something conspirathish out of those two facts.

Acknowledge the first and fight the second as you always should do.

But what Crooke, Kennedy and other such figures do is to deny the pandemic or explain it away as something construed.

That's utter nonsense.

Posted by: b | Jan 11 2022 12:52 utc | 20

Surely directly quoting the Pfizer CEO speaking about the efficacy of his company’s vaccine is not a ban offence?
Here goes:
”Two doses of the vaccine offers very limited protection, if any. 3 doses with a booster offer reasonable protection against hospitalization and deaths."
So that = 4 shots.
^This is the same Pfizer vaccine the US government seeks to mandate for the entire population.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 11 2022 12:57 utc | 21

@Malelauca 21

Maybe he is now admitting this because he knows mandatory vaccines are a 'done deal'? So there is no cost to being honest?

How can anyone claim we are NOT being systematically lied to? I know, I know...its not news anymore.

Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 11 2022 13:05 utc | 22

Anyone with young children is aware how the infection rate is in this age group. Because the Omicron virus is less symptomatic and the effect by children is mild, this caused an elliptical curve for infections in The Netherlands. The hotspot was Amsterdam as the virus was imported with the many families that decided to spend the fall holidays in warmer countries. The Dutch didn’t want to shut down the schools, but that is exactly what happened a week ahead of the Xmas and New Year 2-week school holiday.

Twitter account of Yorick Bleijenberg shows the latest data of the infections in Amsterdam and the nation. Quite interesting the young adults 20-29 age group shows the highest infection rate … by the elderly extremely low.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 11 2022 13:07 utc | 23

Two things can be true at once,

1) The virus is real and can kill

2) The virus can also be used to implement social/political/economic changes that otherwise would have been impossible.

Out of that entire article you focus solely on this:

Again, though ‘following the science’ is the mantra, these measures make no sense: the Omicron variant predominantly infects the double vaxxed, not the unvaxxed.

when the article he wrote and the others he has written focuses on point 2) above. Dismissing it all as a “global conspiracy theory” says more about you than him.

I really recommend that barflies read the whole Crooke article. While there Joaquin Flores is also a very good read with regards to point 2) above.

Posted by: Down South | Jan 11 2022 13:11 utc | 24

I prefer Alastair Cook, the great independent investigative journalist over Alastair CRooke the spy any day.
I put a link on the ‘fund raiser ‘ article. But one equally belongs here with regards Covid disinformation in the MSM - which works hand in glove with sites and paid trolls of tge state against such independents.

In which he simply and quickly slaps down Macrons recent hard words against his own citizens - like a fascist who wants only ‘purity’ and wants to send what he decides are ugly and unruly deserving only opprobrium or worse.

‘Notice that the lies and stupidity here emanate from Macron: he is not only irresponsibly stoking dangerous divisions within French society, he has also failed to understand that the key distinctions from a public health perspective are between those with immunity to Covid and those without it and those who are vulnerable to hospitalization and those who are not. These are the most meaningful markers of how to treat the pandemic. The obsession with vaccination only serves a divide and rule agenda and bolsters pandemic profiteering.’

‘The followers I antagonize every time I write about the pandemic appear to treat the Guardian as their Covid Bible, as do most liberals. ‘

‘My comment, intentionally ambiguous, implicitly requires readers to examine wider issues about the Guardian article: the timing of its publication, why a debate about lockdowns has not previously been encouraged in the Guardian but apparently is now possible, how the debate is being framed by Woolhouse and the Guardian, and how we, the readers, may be being manipulated by that framing.’

‘The corporate media is not our friend. Its coverage of the pandemic is not there to promote the public good. It is there to feed our anxieties, keep us coming back for more, and monetize that distress. The only cure for this sickness? A lot more critical thinking.’

What the Danish report also seems to omit - yet that data must obviously exist - is what the infection rate by Omicron is for these who also had previous infection with and without vaccines/boosters.

That after all is what the kerfuffle in Oz is about isn’t it?

Don’t listen to bad crookes listen to good cooks 😉

Posted by: D.G. | Jan 11 2022 13:12 utc | 25

B, have you actually read the Kennedy book? I wonder because the main thrust of his arguments regarding covid do not deny it's existence but point out Fauci's involvement with the pharmaceutical industry in favouring their vaccines, which are not completely effective, rather than alternative non-vaccine treatments which are out of patent that are effective, and incidentally very much cheaper. Thus allowing drug companies to make huge profits. No treatments allowed except for vaccines is their motto. Now that is a conspiracy.

Posted by: Palinurus | Jan 11 2022 13:23 utc | 26

You dismiss Bill Gates and ilk at your own peril---and the world's as well. I get enough obtuseness from George Galloway every Sunday on his MOATS show re: both Covid and Gates. Go deeper. There is a war within wars going on here that should not be so haughtily laughed off considering the damage Gates and Fauci have already done.

Posted by: Alaskan Rogue Wave | Jan 11 2022 13:23 utc | 27

@D.G. 25

Did you perhaps mean Jonathan Cook when you wrote about 'Alastair Cook'?

Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 11 2022 13:25 utc | 28

@b #20

Thank you for clarifying your position in the discussion.

Could you still add your view on the question m (comment #6) raised on
"the attempt to deliberately use and modify this transformation in order to re-direct it into a specific direction" (likely meaning the 4th industrial revolution / "great reset")?

Since it's not just some people trying to get richer, but at least according to some it's about changing social structure towards a digitalized, possibly transhumanist neofeudal system of medical surveillance, control and bodypolitics justified and made "normal" by the pandemic. Or does that just happen to be the way to get richer this time.

This subject must haunt many.

(Goddamn I feel stupid in this world.)

Posted by: Die Niemandsfuchs | Jan 11 2022 13:26 utc | 29

Why not hear what Dr Behzad Khansarinejad - associate professor of Medical Virology and member of the Scientific Policy Committee of Corona in Iran, a country which is not under the tutelage of Empire Inc. - has to say about SARS-CoV-2. Here in a discussion with Dr John Campbell on vaccine policy in Iran, Omicron in Iran, polyclonal antibody responses of inactivated vaccines, etc.


Posted by: vato | Jan 11 2022 13:30 utc | 30

On planet earth more people are dying of famine than covid. The coming Afghanistan famine is going to be one for the record books.

Food is a trivial inoculation against famine yet more people suffer hunger than long covid.

All this is transparent and simple, yet the urgency is on covid, in spite of the fact that famine is a breading ground for disease.

Public health sure has messed up priorities.

Posted by: too scents | Jan 11 2022 13:35 utc | 31

We've been through this before.

What's been missing the whole time is a reasoned discussion of a couple of considerations.

First, where's the risk analysis? By that I mean, who conducted, published and reviewed viable data on populations/geographies to evaluate which segments of the population are most at risk from the virus. Never happened. There is a great deal of lost cognitive capacity due to this failing.

The next consideration follows rationally from the first...what are the appropriate steps to mitigate harm to those most at risk from the virus. We see empirically that the West failed utterly to develop a reasonable response. One can argue that China's, contrary to western bleating about human rights and social control, has proven very effective at managing down the risks both to health and the public weal.

Here in the West, for a variety of reasons, most of them corrupt in one way or another,our "leaders" have chosen to follow a path guaranteed to fail, just as the have in so many areas of public faith, like Russia/NATO, finance, and medical care in general. There is no demonstrable way that a "vaccine" which does not reduce the R0 or confer immunity can, alone, mitigate one iota of risk in the context of a pandemic. It simply isn't correlated to risk in any meaningful way.

So if one wants to engage in a discussion about how to control the pandemic, or lessen its putative impact on chronically mismanaged health care resources, the conversation has to change in its entirety.

Fortunately, the horse has left the barn and whether anyone likes it or not, the West really has no options remaining. The pandemic will rage on until "herd immunity" (which is fabulously ignorant thing to think about) is achieved. At this point it's all theater.

Posted by: New Guy | Jan 11 2022 13:44 utc | 32

Bogus argument used in article Alastair Crooke …

Linked to article in Zero Edge: ”US COVID Deaths In 2021 Have Surpassed 2020's Total ... Despite Vaccines, Treatments”

Of course that will happen … the infection is progressive and we’re not anywhere close to stopping the spread of the virus. In February 2020 the US started from zero infections … by the time Trump left the stage, the number of infections was in the tens of millions.

It’s as hollow as the Americans in Red states putting blame on Blue states for their own predicament of a surge in infections because Democrats have their President in the White House from January 20 forward.

When I read such an paragraph I conclude it a waste of time to read further.

The virus feasts on the unvaccinated …

Posted by: Oui | Jan 11 2022 13:52 utc | 33

@ Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 11 2022 13:25 utc | 28

I did indeed mean Jonathan not Alistair - thanks - the perils of thumb typing on phone whilst trying to do other stuff.

Good article by him isn’t it?

Posted by: D.G. | Jan 11 2022 14:09 utc | 34

B, you have never mentioned Dr Geert( According to him, which is logical that you should not start vaccination when the virus is mutating as otherwise the mutation would be much worse than the original virus and this is why the vaccinated becomes carrier of virus.

Delta and Omicron are exactly as he predicted.

Posted by: RS | Jan 11 2022 14:15 utc | 35

Well, ZH runs a post signalling the emerging discourse trends.
“The narrative shift could be well on its way already, as Zero Hedge noted this weekend. For example, did you happen notice on Sunday that CDC Director Rochelle Walensky has all-of-a-sudden turned her focus to “people with comorbidities” and “our most at-risk”, as opposed to everybody? . . .

This follows stunning comments from the former chairman of the UK’s vaccine taskforce, Dr. Clive Dix, who said this weekend that we should “treat the virus like the flu,” according to The Guardian. He also said that we should “end mass vaccination after the booster campaign”.”

My personal (& cynical) view is this diminishing covid-discourse will fade from the mass media in direct proportion to the rise of mass hysteria (& more social media lockdown in the West) about Russian & Chinese invasions etc. Timing is variable (as per the other MoA thread on Russia & K-stans etc) but my guess is early in Feb once the Chinese New Year (of the cat/tiger) arrives.

So, for what it's worth (& not much really): my annual end-of-cycle "image" du jour of 2022 as a possible key into the tone of the year ahead -- the Chinese Year of the Tiger. Well, it is Leontocephaline in (Roman) Mithraism and also the Egyptian lion-headed goddess Sekhmet. But more correctly, according to my Kurdish sources, the original eros Mithraism is that which was colonised by the Zoroastrians and "othered" and marginalised as 'evil worship'.

The image that catches my eye these last days is related to the open mouth 'roar?' Sekhmet is a goddess of war with blood lust. The lion-headed male figure (Leontocephaline with 4 wings and winding snakes) does not have much in literature -- but it seems to refer to some top-level gatekeeper symbolism. In some versions the roar is producing fire and has been associated with the rebel titan Prometheus.
So, this new Chinese year of the Big Cats seems to be set as a battle of the Titans (Kronos over Uranus; Zeus over Kronos; ...) -- and someone (old god) is going to lose their nuts, Mr Squirrel. I'm sure Mr Xi explained it all to Mr Putin during a chat recently. It's all in the auspicious timing.

Posted by: imo | Jan 11 2022 14:31 utc | 36

But what Crooke, Kennedy and other such figures do is to deny the pandemic
That's utter nonsense.
Posted by: b | Jan 11 2022 12:52 utc | 20

Can you provide any evidence of that, b? Or are you misrepresenting them?

The Danish study you cite is a pre-print (i.e. not peer reviewed). It is already clear that it has serious methodological difficulties that have affected its results, in particular conflating fully unvaccinated with partially vaccinated and those who have had two shots but who were infected less than the requisite number of days after the second shot - numerous studies have shown that the those receiving the jabs are at especially high risk for a short period after the jab because the immune system is compromised - this can be expected to bias the results, probably substantially so. It is like lumping apples with oranges and then comparing the group with tangerines. There are also serious difficulties of interpretation with respect to the sampling of data, due to the fact that Omicron cases are overwhelmingly mild or without symptoms, and therefore may not have been tested.

Did you read the paper, b? I have to share Stephan's suspicion that you only read the very misleadingly worded abstract and summary.

So, "The Danger Of Subjective Reading Of Covid News"?

Posted by: BM | Jan 11 2022 14:32 utc | 37

... Oh, and thanks for linking that article by Alastair Crooke, it really is an excellent article, I much recommend reading it.

Here is the link again:

The Double Helix of Entwined Pandemic and Economic Strategy

Posted by: BM | Jan 11 2022 14:37 utc | 38

@Oui 33

The Nature article you linked to was published in August 2021. This means it is pre-Omicron. Omicron is one of main points of this and of the Crooke article. Let's try to keep up...

Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 11 2022 14:45 utc | 39

and someone (old god) is going to lose their nuts
Posted by: imo | Jan 11 2022 14:31 utc | 36

Ha ha, I like it, imo. It's only 11th January, but methinks they've lost their nuts already!

Posted by: BM | Jan 11 2022 14:49 utc | 40

BM @38 -- from that link:

"The Élites, he said, wanted only the commanding heights of Tech. They wanted the intellectual property, the protocols, the metrics, the regulatory framework that would allow America to define and expand across the next two decades of global technological evolution."

And that is exactly why they have an issue with the Chinese 5G -- the IP royalties, and therefore $rewards, flow the wrong way for the USA!

Posted by: imo | Jan 11 2022 14:49 utc | 41


I have heard previously on at least two occasions from others who have experience/expertise in epidemiology that vaccination should not be undertaken during a pandemic for the reason you stated but I have no idea if this is now or has ever been the "accepted view" among experts. I have yet to hear this view rebutted or even addressed.

Posted by: spudski | Jan 11 2022 14:52 utc | 42


Novak Djokovic, Great at Tennis and Bad at Science, Awaits His Fate
Some star athletes seem to think you don’t have to follow public health policy — as long as you win.

Djokovic is perhaps bad at science, but is it good science to demand vaccination from a person who was recently infected (positive test) and cleared the virus (negative test)? Vaccination is supposed to mimic the infection without causing illness, passing the real infection without the illness should have the same benefit. And this is the current expert opinion. Criticizing someone as "bad at science" using bad science is [fill the dots].

But we have examples of good science that is accessible to folks with high school education. If you have an apparatus in which a liquid can flow freely and is partially filled, the level of the liquid in different parts is the same. Apparently, stupidity and dishonesty behaves like liquid when we observe Australian government and Lords of NYT on the same issue (as those two are parts of a larger connected system with free flows inside).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 11 2022 15:03 utc | 43

And that is exactly why they have an issue with the Chinese 5G -- the IP royalties, and therefore $rewards, flow the wrong way for the USA!
Posted by: imo | Jan 11 2022 14:49 utc | 41

Yes, the royalties flow the wrong way, but I think more importantly:

a) China has a head and shoulders lead in 5G, is able to dominate and set the standards, and has an overwhelming advantage in the IP;
b) China is executing real 5G based on physical hardware (chips), while US is reliant on mimicking 5G inefficiently using software;
c) China by controlling the hardware eliminates the possibilities for US backdoors;
d) 5G involves orders of magnitude greater volumes of data, all of which can be encrypted;
e) Therefore, US has a big problem of lack of illicit access to other people's encrypted data.

They can't even catch China's [the Lion's] tail!

Posted by: BM | Jan 11 2022 15:03 utc | 44

It should be clear to everyone who has followed the politization of the US virus response that it is being used by fascistic elements to create social dislocation and divisions within society. It is obvious in the US that both wings of the capitalist party demand the wage slaves return to work. Here in freedum land we are obviously immune to 2 to 3 thousand dead a day (see that Putin, we are not wusses). The most important thing is to get the slaves back to work--ergo anything that will help drive the slaves back into workshops and factories is acceptable. So we have a constant drum beat of "students need in-person learning", reduction of quarantine time to 5 days, elimination of negative testing requirements--all policies rolled out to try to keep the slaves on the job. With a million new cases a day--individuals flooding the hospitals with alpha, delta and omicron variants--given the US failure of sequencing--who knows how many new variants are being created---our stupid, venal leaders want to believe that the virus will mutate to a common cold--there is no science that tells us that that will be the result--we have numerous cases of virus mutating into more virulent and debilitating variant. As B warned us nearly two years ago, those of us in freedum land are on our own.

Posted by: Mark E. Kaufmann | Jan 11 2022 15:13 utc | 45

I have heard previously on at least two occasions from others who have experience/expertise in epidemiology that vaccination should not be undertaken during a pandemic for the reason you stated but I have no idea if this is now or has ever been the "accepted view" among experts. I have yet to hear this view rebutted or even addressed.
Posted by: spudski | Jan 11 2022 14:52 utc | 42

From the earliest days of vaccination until the last few years, it was universally held as the gold standard by virologists that you should never vaccinate during an epidemic [let alone pandemic], because it provides the optimum opportunities for the virus to develop resistance to the vaccine. That - like the "definition" of a "pandemic", the "definition" of a "case", the "definition" of a "vaccine" etc - has been changed only in the last few years leading up to the emergence of SARS-CoV2. Prior knowledge? Convenient.

Posted by: BM | Jan 11 2022 15:22 utc | 46

@diocrates | Jan 11 2022 12:43 utc | 17

Agreed! Part of the information gathering process of my critical thinking too!

The time & energy required to create or propagate a lie is far, far, far less than the time/energy required to refute it with fact.

Outside of our individual "bullshit radars", reading others thoughts/analysis is the only thing that keeps our individual "critical thinking/reasoning" mechanisms active.

Because of the greater time/energy required to prove something as false, there are times when one just uses their "bullshit radar" to filter it out and discard it. The main problem is that it is very difficult to identify knowledgeable/trusted people who are NOT prepared to sacrifice their reputation for political/material gain.

Identifying who you can trust is getting harder and harder all the time. Soon we will all live in a Moldovan society where no one trusts anyone.......and as a result nothing gets done and our common humanity revolves around complete mistrust of everyone and everything.

Overall, my critical thinking leads me to the conclusion that totalitarianism is not far away.

Posted by: James Cook | Jan 11 2022 15:22 utc | 47

Is there not some more nuanced position in between "totally fake plandemic" and "it's the "revenge of smallpox?"

Can one say vaccines are likely beneficial for many, but so awesome to ever warrant the repulsive thought of forcibly compelling people to get vaxxed?

Can one point out that, while beneficial, vaccines are no where near what was advertised a year ago?

Can one point out that concern about overwhelming the Healthcare system with the unvaxxed is silly, when irreplaceable medical staff are fired for refusing vaccination? And then note the complete lack of logic of forcing vaccinated staff who tested positive to come to work?

Can one notice that politicians strongly advocating lockdowns, social distancing, etc. are caught partying in huge groups? Forget the hypocrisy of all that. Shouldn't they be socially distant just to save their own skins? And if they aren't, can someone be faulted for thinking that they are exaggerating the danger?

Isn't it possible that many wish to use covid, however real it may be, for very nefarious purposes of domination and control over the public? Shouldn't we be on the lookout for that, even if we believe this is a dangerous virus?

Just asking

Posted by: Lysander | Jan 11 2022 15:27 utc | 48

It continues to be so odd that so many who are so skeptical of 'power' have swallowed Covid hook, line and sinker. Whether the disease is a hoax or not, and the work of Off-Guardian over the past two years should give one pause in their unquestioning acceptance: The roll-out of lying PCR tests, the roll-out of asymptomatic spread to cover for the lying PCR tests, the use of masks which studies dating back to WWII say do not stop virus spread, the overall IFR of 0.2% in face of panic pandemonium, lockdowns of the healthy, demonization of critical thinking, suppression of all treatment but non-vaccines and these are just tip of iceberg things, as those who seriously study this matter know.

To glibly accept the narrative of the "Establishment" is the height of folly.

Posted by: gottlieb | Jan 11 2022 15:34 utc | 49

Some minimum of critical reading is required, at all times. In Crooke's defense, this has to be compared to the inconsistent mess coming out of official sources, who at this point seem to have resigned themselves to letting nature take its course.

Posted by: ptb | Jan 11 2022 15:35 utc | 50

thanks to the wonderful radical cartoonist Mike Flugenock and his current "omicron lights: they are mild" omicron-as-cigarettes cartoon, I checked out Al Jazeera's coverage of SE Asia's, esp China's, corona strategy.

well guess what? for the sake of the "economy," we'll all have to learn to "live with it." China's strategy (now with more Korea!) isn't "viable". though i didn't read anyone saying Japan needs more ivermectin, all insist on how "mild" and "smooth-tasting" and "low tar" omicron is. the virus has come a long way.

and what do we mean by "the economy"? pumping billions of chickens with antibiotics, to make "buffalo wings". slaughtering cows and pigs. and building cars. all this "disruption" due to the weather (meaning "nature") in the Pacific NW is sure a boon to the trees, it's so quiet with logging trucks not running 10 hours a day outside my window. i've been parked across the street from the state Dept of Commerce for the entirety of the outbreak. there was no "disruption" to anything when this mostly useless and unnecessary horde of keyboard bureaucrats stopped commuting to work. so why start back now?

because what the economy is really here to do is to waste people's time. can't have people having that extra 2-4 hours a day not commuting to work. not spending money on gas, roads, cars, etc. is "bad for the economy". people having more time at home, incl w/kids during the virus, is "bad for the economy." whose economy?

the "you are not vaccinated" has been the "you left the fire doors open" (Eric Adams, NYC mayor, investor or some biz partner in the Bronx building that burned down). people commenting around here haven't a clue how decadent, corrupt and vicious the ruling class is. anti-vaxxer sentiment is part of the "divide and rule" strategy. hard to grasp that munching on a gmo growth-hormone and anti-biotic infused debeaked superchicken while listening to the fully vaxxed and boosted Robert Kennedy blather on about Fauci.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jan 11 2022 15:38 utc | 51

The COVID reporting coming from the alt-news is bad because the COVID reporting from the mainstream news is worse.

The proof is in the pudding: the so-called Biden "science based" approach to COVID is clearly nothing more than PMC flip-flopping. We are in the midst of the largest COVID infection wave in the United States, EVER.

Now, we can only hope and pray that the vaccines are remotely as efficacious as hyped. Early results aren't promising: US hospitalizations at record

I have been saying for months now that 2021-2022 would likely see a huge wave of COVID infections - it is 100% clear now that even my most pessimistic estimates were low.

Nor is this just because of Omicron - the CDC revised its omicron percentages down, well under 50%. Why is 50% significant? Because even if you divide the overall infection numbers in half, they would still be enormously higher than 2020-2021.

All present COVID policies are clearly corrupt and bureaucratic, as opposed to results oriented.

Nor is Europe impressive either: Germany continues to break records on deaths, infections etc. Ditto France, Italy etc.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 11 2022 15:48 utc | 52

Piotr Berman | Jan 11 2022 15:03 utc | 43
and yet he's going to play, isn't he? i hope he gets sick and it ends his career. Him and the coaching staff and admin at Georgia and Alabama.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jan 11 2022 15:49 utc | 53


So your mask has finally been removed and the real person has been revealed. Let's hope you don't get what you wish for others.

Posted by: morongobill | Jan 11 2022 16:00 utc | 54

You should read Kennedy's book "The Real Anthony Fauci" before you write stuff like this.

Posted by: David Carson | Jan 11 2022 16:03 utc | 55

what we learn from Jokevich is that people are sheep. if the Joker cared about vaccines, wouldn't he refuse to participate? no, he just lies about it, tries to go around the rules like a good member of the ruling class, who come to his defense and enable his criminality (sic).

but his goal is still one thing: participation. there's no herd immunity from the herd mentality, not even from hitting a tennis ball real fast. he only believes his own bullshit to the degree that he can get away with it. he doesn't give a shit about this vaccine issue. it's another tennis ball for him to hit. because playing tennis and football and the olympics is more important than the virus. why?

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jan 11 2022 16:07 utc | 56

You have to be careful with alternative news because they require sensationalism and automatically taking a contrary position to the perceived mainstream in order to attract readers/viewers. Some of these personalities on tv and online media have been outed as fakes. They've built an audience, have a sense of what the audience wants to hear, and play up the news accordingly.

Vaxxed and unvaxxed are all infected with the virus. The difference is that the vaxxed defeat the virus much faster since there's already a standing wall of antibodies to neutralize as much of the virus as possible before the killer immune system cells destroy the infected cells in the body.

Posted by: Les | Jan 11 2022 16:10 utc | 57

morongobill | Jan 11 2022 16:00 utc | 54
i'm not in the international spotlight willfully deceiving people, so i can play a sport, am I?

"the mask comes off." yes, i wish the ruling class, incl the jokester, to suffer the consequences of their actions. absolutely. mask off. proudly.

you know what those consequences are? suffering the same as everyone else is.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jan 11 2022 16:26 utc | 58

@James Cook | Jan 11 2022 15:22 utc | 47

Because of the greater time/energy required to prove something as false

Indeed, a very useful observation. It is also worth making clear that quite often you cannot prove a statement is false regardless of the effort, see proving a negative.

Overall, my critical thinking leads me to the conclusion that totalitarianism is not far away.

Yes and no :-) In some cases, in some countries (even in the West) its already here. I say this because we know that once a policy is law (mandatory vaccination) then it is very hard to reverse it. So, we could argue that those countries which already have vaccination mandates, which are NOT explicitly temporary, have been captured by totalitarianism. Interestingly, most (all?) are Western countries. How democratic of them...

Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 11 2022 16:43 utc | 59

C1ue, the US reopened flights with the EU on 8th nov, just on time to import delta is larger numbers.

Posted by: Tom2 | Jan 11 2022 16:51 utc | 60

@c1ue | Jan 11 2022 15:48 utc | 52

The COVID reporting coming from the alt-news is bad because the COVID reporting from the mainstream news is worse.

I agree.

I also think (relating to Crooke's article) that part of the proof of whether (and how) the US is sliding into totalitarianism will be in the introduction (or otherwise) of vaccine mandates. Lets hope not.

Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 11 2022 16:56 utc | 61

b and Lex@13. Well stated.

Good Covid data is hard to find.

The virus should have been handled by medical types like Lex

Instead public health got taken over by security types which wasn’t a good idea even if it was an escaped/released pathogen.

Posted by: financial matters | Jan 11 2022 16:57 utc | 62

I'll offer up an alternative an entirely cynical view. That the "Fully Unvaccinated" only appear in this study to the extent that they had no prior exposure to Covid-19. The majority of the "unvaccinated" are therefore recent jabees with reduced immunity. Had the study made the raw numbers available, a better guess at the real situation could be made.
The study is a missed opportunity to define "Fully unvaccinated" and "partly unvaccinated" more clearly

Posted by: richarda | Jan 11 2022 17:12 utc | 63

@lysander (and others),

You write: "Isn't it possible that many wish to use covid, however real it may be, for very nefarious purposes of domination and control over the public?"

Others here, and others on the fringe right, also keep hyperventilating about a "great reset" that will "control" us, etc.

That discourse is nonsense. There is no break in the dominant power blocs or ruling classes or elite political coalitions at all on neoliberalism.

In fact the opposite of what you suggest is occuring. Capitalist forces across the West are forcing kids back to school and workers back to work to keep business as usual (high stock indexes, global supply chains, corporate profits). They are using the state, like they always do, to protect their wealth and assets. They are using their police forces to repress us like they always do. There is nothing new about any of this. You were not "free" before covid.

There is absolutely no great reset. That is a right wing chimera.

There is only cold murderous capitalist exploitation and coercion. Everything we are seeing is nothing but a manifestation of capital's inner tendencies, just as Marx described it.

Instead of conspiracies and distractions, such as "great reset" nonsense, face reality. Face capitalism.

Posted by: Prof | Jan 11 2022 17:13 utc | 64

@Lex 13

Maybe in your neck of the woods it doesn't look like a reset. But here, in the EU, it is looking and quacking like a duck.

We know most (all?) EU governments are toying with the idea of vaccine mandates. Anti-mandate voices are nowhere. In the MSM all you are likely to see is idiots suggesting that a vaccine mandate for all adults is 'an act of solidarity towards minors'.

WTF, run that by me again?

I have not seen a single article in the MSM which argues against mandates, citing any kind of 'science' (I would settle for astrology, as long as it was there).

Of course, you can claim that THIS exposes MSM's incompetence, but, as I said previously, that is missing the point (of Crooke's article).

Posted by: Idiocrates | Jan 11 2022 17:24 utc | 65

@gottlieb | Jan 11 2022 15:34 utc | 49

It literally killed my brother in law, you stupid fuck. It's not a 'hoax'.

Posted by: Ben | Jan 11 2022 17:34 utc | 66

@sputski and @RS

I have heard previously on at least two occasions from others who have experience/expertise in epidemiology that vaccination should not be undertaken during a pandemic for the reason you stated but I have no idea if this is now or has ever been the "accepted view" among experts. I have yet to hear this view rebutted or even addressed.

The virus will always mutate anyway. It is always trying to get better at infecting more people. It will become fitter. This does not depend on vaccination or not.

After a population is vaccinated the virus will continue to mutate with the same aim. To create more infections it will try to find ways to escape the protection vaccination creates. If it manages to do that (like influenza does nearly every year) one needs a new vaccine (variant).

To run through a pandemic without vaccines means that practically everyone will be infected and have the full risk. That would have been even more catastrophic for those societies with many overweight, diabetes or older people.

Posted by: b | Jan 11 2022 17:36 utc | 67

@James Cook | Jan 11 2022 15:22 utc | 47

Overall, my critical thinking leads me to the conclusion that totalitarianism is not far away.

Critical thinking is usually essential, but when totalitarianism is staring you down all you need is to open an eye.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 11 2022 17:56 utc | 68

@ 55 - David Carson - I would suggest also reading States of Emergency by Kees van der Pijl. People are probably sick of hearing me mention the book, but it is incredible. And incredibly terrifying. I'm on the last chapter.

States of Emergency

And I hope the forces of the CSTO have secured the bio (warfare) labs in Kazakhstan. Who knows what other fun we could have in store for us in 2022.

from Veterans today - Kazakh labs

And now for a little music!

Dead Kennedys - Chemical Warfare

Thank, b and everyone else here!

Posted by: lex talionis | Jan 11 2022 18:00 utc | 69

Posted by: D.G. | Jan 11 2022 13:12 utc | 25

D.G., I share your appreciation of Jonathan Cook. Anyone who unequivocally condemned the situation in Occupied Palestine while living in Israel is a brave and honorable sort. He’s now back in the UK but it’s a wonder he even survived in Israel for 20 years and that he has not (as yet) been neutralized.

He wrote a column that precedes the one you linked to and it serves as a good lead in to your link. (I see parallels with the situation in Chile that migueljose touched upon a few weeks ago where the right can gain by the actions of a misguided or perhaps neo-liberal left.)

left's contempt helps the right

“Every time the left shouts down those who are hesitant about taking a Covid vaccine; every time it echoes the authoritarianism of those who demand mandates, chiefly for low-paid workers; every time it refuses to engage with – or even allow – counter-arguments, it abandons the political battlefield to the right.”

And. b. Should. Take. Note.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Jan 11 2022 18:04 utc | 70

To run through a pandemic without vaccines means that practically everyone will be infected and have the full risk. That would have been even more catastrophic for those societies with many overweight, diabetes or older people.

There is a difference between vaccinating those at risk and the general population. The majority of deaths have been among the elderly and people with comorbidities that make them more susceptible to covid. In contrast, the mortality among children (without comorbidities) is barely quantifiable.

Posted by: Tobin Paz | Jan 11 2022 18:05 utc | 71

You're wrong about this Covid thing. But others are doing the real journalism so thankfully you can keep up to date with the real news. For example. Project Veritas just released some DARPA documents which describe Sars COV 2 as an American lab modified bat corona virus. And Hydrocholoroquine as being effective in treatment.
DARPA. DoD. Government.
Check it out.

Posted by: Jezabeel | Jan 11 2022 18:16 utc | 72

thanks b... that is very disappointing regarding patrick armstrong basically being silenced... does he even post at pat langs anymore? i don't go there anymore.. i liked what you said at the end - "That can, on a bad day, happen to all of us." that is worth keeping in mind for all of us..

@ imo | Jan 11 2022 12:44 utc | 18... i tend to share your viewpoint quite a bit.. thanks for saying all that.. on the topic of mattais desmet, i took him up on his encouragement to read hannah arendts books... keeping an open mind is difficult, but not impossible... it is encouraging to see someone else hold to similar views..

Posted by: james | Jan 11 2022 18:20 utc | 73

But what Crooke, Kennedy and other such figures do is to deny the pandemic

Posted by: b | Jan 11 2022 12:52 utc | 20

YOU MUST prove that b, link us to the evidence please.

Posted by: Per/Norway | Jan 11 2022 18:30 utc | 74

Bernhard, thank you very much for your reference to this very interesting article by Alastrar Crook. Even though I am an admirer of his writing and acumen without your attention to this article, I would probably have missed it altogether.

Posted by: Barend | Jan 11 2022 18:33 utc | 75

Posted by: Prof | Jan 11 2022 17:13 utc | 64

Not that I disagree with your expressed view of capitalism, but stating "Instead of conspiracies and distractions, such as "great reset" nonsense, face reality. Face capitalism." Perhaps, the "great reset" is a reworked form of corporate capitalism:

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jan 11 2022 18:38 utc | 76

Just asking

Posted by: Lysander | Jan 11 2022 15:27 utc | 48

you are not alone Lysander.

Posted by: Per/Norway | Jan 11 2022 18:39 utc | 77

Posted by: james | Jan 11 2022 18:20 utc | 73

James you can read Armstrong here.
He has posted comments occasionally on MOA and the Saker, I believe.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jan 11 2022 18:42 utc | 78

Fully vaxed here. Just recovering from Covid infection which affected whole family. All vaxed (except toddlers) some had pretty bad symptoms for days.

Seems everyone around is getting infected regardless of vax status and all similar symptoms. A few hospitalized and fully vaxed. I have to say I dont think the vaccines do anything at all vs Omicron. We are back to square one. Thankfully seems Omicron is not as severe.

I dont understand why people can still claim vaccines work vs current strain? They obviously dont. Even Pfizer CEO has conceded this. His solution is to create an Omicron focused vaccine. The problem is by the time thats out, the Omicron wave will have swept through the globe.

Time to forget vaccines as solution to the pandemic. It will never work. Yes vaccinate the sick and old. But leave the rest alone. And Im not anti vax. As I said Im vaxed and mu whole fsmily and 90% of friends are vaxes. But enough is enough.

Posted by: comandante | Jan 11 2022 18:44 utc | 79

Renowned Immunology Scientist from Kazakhstan

Kanatzhan "Kanat" Alibekov [In Langley, Va - Ken Alibek] and colleagues have sought to develop a product that would protect against an array of deadly viruses and bacteria, rather than just a single organism. In his lab, mice had survived doses of smallpox and anthrax. His "cocktail approach" – mixing more than one drug with other ingredients – was touted at news conferences in 2002 and 2004 by U.S. Representative H. James Saxton (R-N.J.), as "a potential new defense against bioterrorism". This scientific approach is very difficult to assess accurately and has not withstood scientific peer review.

Alibek has used his notoriety to promote "Dr. Ken Alibek's Immune System Support Formula," a dietary supplement sold over the Internet. This concoction of vitamins, minerals, and a proprietary bacterial mix will purportedly "bolster the immune system".

Even very smart scientists sometimes take a detour or a a dead end. (*) with Pentagon funding build Biosecurity lab in Almaty.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 11 2022 18:55 utc | 80

Posted by: b | Jan 11 2022 17:36 utc | 67

I mean no disrespect or offense, but surely a mind as disciplined as yours sees the syllogism here?

"To create more infections it will try to find ways to escape the protection vaccination creates...To run through a pandemic without vaccines means that practically everyone will be infected and have the full risk."

fwiw, one may ponder about the change in definition of a vaccine which occurred last year. At first I thought is was only the CDC but apparently Webster's dictionary has also gamed the language bit. Specifically changing the prior definition from "immunity" to "immune response".

A rather significant cheat.

A vaccine that doesn't confer immunity isn't what we all thought a vaccine is. Changing the terms post hoc is corrupt. A vaccine that does not alter the epidemiological trajectory of a pathogen is hardly something to cajole citizens into taking by threats of the loss of civil liberties and Rights.

Taking such a concoction must remain solely a personal choice - one I believe is unreasonable unless you have a demonstrable risk of harm otherwise.

Otherwise what meaning is there in the ideas of self sovereignty and civil society? I'd much rather life in a society where the obese die off in great numbers than one in which 40% of the population is vilified, bullied and coerced into an ill conceived experiment that simply perpetuates the worst of terminal capitalist narcissism. Hell, I'd prefer the open bloodbath of a civil war to a country that forces it's people to subject themselves to unproven experimental drugs for profit.

Posted by: New Guy | Jan 11 2022 19:02 utc | 81

I've read Alastair Crooke steadily for the last 6 years and find him very credible. He also does not deny the existence of the pandemic. What he has done is to examine how the pandemic's being used by power structures to advance their agendas, and his current essay must be read within the context of his last 8 essays at minimum.

On the Geneva Talks thread, Grieved answered my call for additional feedback on Crooke's essay that he provided and I answered this morning. As I wrote, I intend to do an analytical essay on it and publish it on my VK Space for as I noted there's historical precedence for the sort of actions contemplated by elites.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 19:02 utc | 82

It seems to me that those who oppose any vaccine (anti-vax-in-general) has been mixed with those who are skeptical about COVID "vaccines". And that is done intentionally to blur the difference between the two.

It is my understanding that
(1) Viruses mutate and keep mutating. That is its nature.
(2) There is no effective "vaccine" for any virus.
(3) Flu shots are a result of an educated guess. One tries his/her luck with it. And it needs to be "renewed" every year, namely, another round of "educated guess".

Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. Since the covid pandemic, black becomes white and vice versa in the west.

I don't understand why skepticism about the fancy COVID "vaccines" is ridiculed so badly rather than explained/answered?! One fundamental question to these fancy vaccines is whether there is any long-term effect and what it is if there is. Is such a question valid?! If there is urgent need to protect vulnerable groups, the "vaccines" for "emergency" use can be applied to those group who really need it after careful benefit-risk-analysis.

Hospitals in US now let covid-infected-and-vaxxed staff back to work after shortened quarantine. Would this be better than uninfected-but-unvaxxed staff?! Those in power in the west just keep flip-flop and it becomes clearer and clearer who is their master- definitely not average people.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Jan 11 2022 19:05 utc | 83

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 11 2022 15:48 utc | 52

I agree with your rant but Germany right now has one of the lowest incidences in Europe

Posted by: v | Jan 11 2022 19:10 utc | 84

I think it's pointless to debate whether there is a virus or not. Clearly there is. Someday we may know when and from where is came. Or not. There is a lot at stake here. A lot.
More to the point is what was made of this virus. Fear became the driving mantra. Fear of the virus and fear of each other. Masks became ubiquitous. I have passed people I know well on the street and have failed to recognise them. And "social distancing". Isn't that one just the nuts?
With fear comes control. Shutter businesses, close schools and forget about going to church/mosque/temple. We have empowered men and women of average intelligence, but with overweening ambition and ego (politicians), to say go here/do not go there and do this/do not do that. And, no surprises here, they like it. QR codes linked to this pass and that pass allow them to know where we are and what we are doing.
It was never about the virus. It was always about the response to the virus. And that, in my opinion, is what Alastair Crooke's quite brilliant article was all about.

Posted by: Hal Duell | Jan 11 2022 19:17 utc | 85

much love in these bizaree times. I am fully aware from the south africa data that Omicron out competes the Delta.
I'm unvaxxed and recently contracted Omicron- no worse than a mild cold. disagree though with your general tone on this issue. watch this interview with ex VP of Pfizer (Dr. Mike Yeadon). He presents empirical evidence of nefarious activity by sections of capital committing the most egregious crimes against humanity through the vaccine toxicity:

so glad i found Moon of Alabama

Posted by: stephen | Jan 11 2022 19:21 utc | 86

I fear that Covid Conspiracy Theories are becoming more central to alt-right/Trumpist fantasies, kinda like a psychological version of Long Covid. I first noticed this trend in comments on a Kazakhstan thread on Turcopolier, where some are saying that the protests/riots/rebellion in Kazakhstan were really a (justifiable) reaction against Vax mandates. I've seen similar idiocy on FB, and sadly, here too.

Apparently, the Lizard Underlords (who secretly control all of Earth's Conspiracy Theories) have recognized that humans' natural fear of needles makes anti-vax theories uniquely powerful. Covid Conspiracies have become the One Ring, ruling over all other Conspiracy Theories.

Posted by: elkern | Jan 11 2022 19:21 utc | 87

Posted by: elkern | Jan 11 2022 19:21 utc | 90
"... some are saying that the protests/riots/rebellion in Kazakhstan were really a (justifiable) reaction against Vax mandates. I've seen similar idiocy on FB, and sadly, here too."

I have not seen that said here. Perhaps, you could show us the evidence.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jan 11 2022 19:24 utc | 88

You should pay atention to the relationship between Úrsula com ser Leyen, her husband and Pfizer... Atlântic Council gave her and a commercial director from Pfizer a prize!

Posted by: Ana Q | Jan 11 2022 19:26 utc | 89

thank you, vato @ 30...fabulous interview, an hour well spent. very much appreciated.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Jan 11 2022 19:35 utc | 90

@Tom2 #60
The point of the (latest) hypocrisy is that clearly "business as usual" is more important than anything else - which is a reverse of the prior PMC panic emphasizing how terrible COVID is.
The latest CDC policy on "safe return to work after COVID" is simply ludicrous - reopening of flights is no different.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 11 2022 19:43 utc | 91

OT, I know,
But an incipient conflict is worth a moment.

Anyone notice if the economic blockade discussed by the EU with Ukraine against Transnistria has taken on life?

Posted by: BrainLes7 | Jan 11 2022 19:45 utc | 92

@Idiocrates #61
The new policies make it clear that any "totalitarianism" there is, is the same old totalitarianism: the PMCs and the corporations vs. everyone else.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 11 2022 19:45 utc | 93

Posted by: Palinurus | Jan 11 2022 13:23 utc | 26,

Thank you. I completely agree. I haven't read the Crooke article yet, but I will say that just as here and with my own family, I appreciate hearing the point of view expressed, even if it diverges from my own. What is important in the Kennedy book is that he traces the path of vaccine insistence from the Aids epidemic onward, when treatments began by an effort to create a vaccine, during which attempts many lives were lost - later other remedies were more effective in sustaining life. That's just a fact; the vaccine attempt for some did not prove beneficial. Even if you don't have time to read the book, b, just look at the first few pages where there are so many credentialed individuals making their own agreement with what it contains public.

I myself am highly suspicious of the emphasis with omicron on transmission. Transmission means nothing if a person is healthy. There are many questions about vaccines which in some healthy people cause adverse effects. I'm not happy with that situation. Those adverse effects, even if not recognized at first, could make one more vulnerable to the virus just as comorbidities do. That means you shouldn't be forced to take the vaccine; it's a matter of risk and personal judgment, not a slam dunk. I even disagree with Putin, (whom I greatly respect) on this.

As I've said before, you are welcome to ban me b. I wouldn't be able to contribute much in any case. I've not taken flu shots, and I will not take these vaccines. I mask, and I isolate; I haven't even held my youngest grandchild who is now two and a half years old. Sad, but necessary. I admit I am confused by statistics - but statistics are often used to confuse. I have to go with what I personally feel is the best course, and I wish the best to all who are doing just that.

Posted by: juliania | Jan 11 2022 19:47 utc | 94

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 19:02 utc | 85

Thanks karlof1 also.

Posted by: juliania | Jan 11 2022 19:48 utc | 95

@v #87
Is COVID solved?
Will COVID be solved in the foreseeable future?
The only thing more amusing than "we're not as bad as X" are the fantasies of politicians to be able to have the totalitarian powers of China.
What I am curious about is whether Germany or the other major nations in Europe have gone down the same path of "vax uber alles" as the US, as opposed to a policy combining vaccines and treatments.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 11 2022 19:49 utc | 96

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 11 2022 19:02 utc | 85

Yes, Crooke "does not deny the existence of the pandemic", and neither does Kennedy.

Hopefully b can avoid these inadvertent pieces of misinformation in the future. It is so MSM!

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jan 11 2022 19:52 utc | 97

Gates is certainly up to something.

Control of the WHO. $331 million on the media (Guardian took a huge slice). Buying huge tracts of farmland. And then there's that zero carbon solution to overpopulation...

For the record, I believe in covid, because I've had it. But it seems to be a cover for something more. Something stinks massively

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Jan 11 2022 19:54 utc | 98

The best article have seen on covid is by Jonathan Cook
He also writes on the topic in his blog:
There are many unknowns related to covid and believe everything should be up for consideration/discussion.
Squelching other points of view to fit a particular narrative is not in best interest of anyone.
Value this site on many topics while disagree on few. Unfortunately, believe covid has been subjected to excessive censorship.
The author provides many interesting takes on many topics but most often commenters provide even more valuable insights. Realize this blog has one owner but prefer to view it as a community with many points of view. Of course, do not want it to turn into Zero Hedge so understand some moderation is necessary.

Posted by: Joe | Jan 11 2022 20:00 utc | 99

@Posted by: Down South | Jan 11 2022 13:11 utc | 24

"Two things can be true at once,
1) The virus is real and can kill
2) The virus can also be used to implement social/political/economic changes that otherwise would have been impossible."

Thankyou for some sanity and balance, attempting to stay between the scylla of conspiracy nuttery and charybdis of the MSM official line gets you not liked by both! To quote Churchill "never let a good crisis go to waste!" seems to be the official policy of the oligarchic, rentier, kleptocratic and somewhat incompetent Western governments - especially the US and UK.

So in the West we get lockdowns that shutdown rising political demonstrations (e.g. Yellow Vests) and crush small and medium businesses which will then become cheap meat for the oligarchs who got the bailout from the liquidity crisis that hit in late 2019. In addition a cash grab by pharmaceutical companies that own their regulators, with the latter blocking any possible alternative treatments or vaccines. Then add on a large dose of incompetence, showing the increasing degradation of the elites. Oh, and of course a big dollop of censorship aided by the Atlantic Council.

In China we get a highly competent public health policy display because they have a highly competent central bureaucracy that has not been captured by the oligarchs. In Russia we get a mess as Putin balances between the oligarchs, the siloviki and his mates from St. Petersburg.

And probably soon COVID will disappear from the MSM, just the way that the GWOT did (the US loves Muslims now it seems, unless your family is starving to death in Afghanistan) and we will be overwhelmed with Russia/China/Iran/Orange Man bad.

Posted by: Roger | Jan 11 2022 20:14 utc | 100

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