Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 26, 2022

Open Thread 2022-08

News & views ...

Posted by b on January 26, 2022 at 18:43 UTC | Permalink

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Peter AU1 @ 190

Regarding your 1660 map. Every battle, every marriage, every succession changed the map. Huge tracts of land went from one account to the next with every political event. The area of land transferred correlated inversely with the population of those lands. Smaller the populations involved the more land was reassigned. The big battles of the era involved armies that we would call battalions and regiments. Lines on the map moved easily because no one much cared. That Lithuania or Courland claimed half of Ukraine does not mean anything was there.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 27 2022 20:32 utc | 201

And so we get to wait some more!
Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 18:10 utc | 187

Thanks very much, karlof1! What a treat to have this post of Lavrov's meticulously crafted coments! And given the rumors of some dissatisfaction in the halls of nations presently inside the NATO bubble, waiting is going to be a pleasurable occupation. Earlier I posted that we might have already experienced the answer to the non answer with the swift response to Kazakhstan's attempted coup, but this is how that answer will go, not with a bang but with an unfolding unravelling in the fullness of time.

This may well be the greatest manifestation of Putin's non-aggressive ultimatum - something similar to the protection of Crimea when I remember he sent a message of praise to Ukraine, in that so few lives were lost as it entered the Russian Federation. That is his goal, to impress upon people the foolishness of remaining in a situation where the buildup of arms is being used simply to promote an aggressive policy. Quod erat demonstrandum!

If this current confrontation results in the dissolving of that derelict, out of date entity, how great would that be?!!

(I miss Grieved, who would be saying exactly this in much better ways!)

Posted by: juliania | Jan 27 2022 20:35 utc | 202

I would laugh if this wasn't so sad:

TSA allows illegal immigrants to use their arrest warrants as ID to board flights

Seriously?

TSA Administrator David Pekoske responded explaining that certain DHS documents may be considered acceptable alternate forms of identification

Those include a 'Warrant for Arrest of Alien' and a 'Warrant of Removal/Deportation'

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 27 2022 20:45 utc | 203

Russia, France, Germany and Ukraine have just had a meeting. (about Minsk) I see the slight relaxation in the wartalk/buildup as a sign that Putin may give some space for Macron and Scholz to do something. It doesn't hurt that the Warthogs are stuck in cold mud for a few weeks either.

After all, his idea of NOT including the "EU" in negotiations made sure that they will now try to stay relevant. Ego's punctured? Even my saying "the EU" is no longer entirely accurate, as several countries are taking different paths to avoid being turned into another US warzone. The "EU" itself (Commission and Parliament) have gone silent.

It is about time that some sort of semblance of individuality and the "rights" of Nations are taken into account in European affairs.

****
PS. So are the US going to send troops to all the countries that might backslide, to enforce "compliance"?
**

Quote; Moldova, "There are more soldiers in the Russian Military Band than we have in our army".

Posted by: Stonebird | Jan 27 2022 20:46 utc | 204

@Stonebird | Jan 27 2022 20:46 utc | 204

After all, his idea of NOT including the "EU" in negotiations made sure that they will now try to stay relevant.
It is simply beautiful to see that you can simply stop talking to "The EU" and say that NATO and Stoltenberg having 'lost touch with reality' and they quickly become irrelevant, because it is true. I love it!

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 27 2022 21:05 utc | 205

Kartoschka #140

In short: The average German lives in a matrix that has little to do with reality. On the one hand, politics contributes to this, on the other hand, it is caught in its own false narrative.

Thank you for your response.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 27 2022 21:09 utc | 206

John Cleary @198--

Thanks for your reply, John! I wasn't aware of Russia's petitioning the ECHR as I never saw any notice of it. Here's a PDF press release regarding the case filed by the illegitimate Ukrainian cabal regarding events in 2014 and the Netherlands filing over MH-17 in 2000--funny that Malasiya isn't a party to that. A quick search found there's no notice of any pending case filed by Russia.

IMO, it's becoming clearer that Russia and Russians are to be treated the same as Native Americans--dispossessed and exterminated--just as Hitler and the Kaiser envisioned.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 21:22 utc | 207

juliania @202 & Stonebird @204--

Thanks for your replies! Lavrov's pointing to what was answered and what wasn't was indeed masterful since he again highlighted what the top line issue is--the willful breaking of treaties and dishonorable behavior by the West generally and the Outlaw US Empire in particular. First you promised verbally, then you signed several treaties reiterating the essence of those promises, then you broke them, then you lied about breaking them, then you try to justify your lies with more lies. And those are the reasons why you won't see Lavrov's words published by Western Media as well as why the responses were asked to be kept private. It's not at all about keeping negotiations private because they're supposedly easier that way. No, it's because the amazing duplicity carried out over the last 30 years is finally being revealed, and it tars the West in a way that no other nation or group of nations ought to believe anything from those nations. The entire Non-Aligned Movement is surely taking and exchanging notes, while the former Warsaw Pact and non-NATO EU members better pay attention as well.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 21:37 utc | 209

Posted by: Jan | Jan 27 2022 17:45 utc | 186

Interesting story about Mali. Does anybody know about ECOWAS? Seems like they have links to NED, which makes me wonder if this club is something akin to OAS or the "Lima Group".

Posted by: farm ecologist | Jan 27 2022 21:53 utc | 210

This is to Christian on the ICAO Report - Ryanair Plane That Landed in Minsk Was NOT Forced Down Thread.

I know that I mess up things here. sorry.

@17 Christian J. Chuba
It is truly sickening to accuse the Russians of anything Nazi like. They like defeated that fascist entity. I only read Daily Beast when I run across it posted on places like here. What a rag the Daily is. Ugh. How do these people live with themselves. This is from wikipedia, but it is not a bad telling of what went off during the Great Patriotic War in the Ukraine SSR, as well as other places in the USSR. The Baba Yar section is of interest, as that it deals with Ukraine.

Einsatzgruppen

Probably old news to everyone here.

Posted by: lex talionis | Jan 27 2022 21:58 utc | 211

It's not at all about keeping negotiations private because they're supposedly easier that way. No, it's because the amazing duplicity carried out over the last 30 years is finally being revealed, and it tars the West in a way that no other nation or group of nations ought to believe anything from those nations.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 21:37 utc | 209

Yes, I think that is the real point of the Russian "ultimatum", to force the issues into public discussion, break through the propaganda narrative, and "apply pressure" on the west, for a change; and the Russians are doing a good job of that. I think they will keep doing it.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 27 2022 22:02 utc | 212

John Cleary @208--

Thanks hugely for that first link!! That was filed before I began looking at the Russian version of the MFA's website, which provides more than double the info than the English language page. Same with Putin's Kremlin page.

I see the second link provides the West's propaganda narrative and isn't objective. Thanks for that anyway!

My first comment today linked to the Global Times article about Wang Yi's phone conversation with Blinken that took place at Blinken's request, and here Tom Fowdy frames that call somewhat differently from me or GT:

"On Wednesday evening, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken phoned his Chinese counterpart, Wang Yi, and lectured him on what he described as “Russian aggression” on Ukraine. The move was an obvious diplomatic stunt from Washington to try and isolate Moscow by appealing to Beijing, seemingly fearful of the growing strategic partnership between the two countries. But Wang wasn't impressed by this insincere cry for help.

"Instead, Chinese media reports on the call stated that Wang urged Ukraine to follow the Minsk Protocol, indirectly stated opposition to NATO expansion, and lashed out at the US on a number of issues, accusing it of 'interference' in China’s internal affairs, deliberately undermining the Winter Olympics, and demanding that it comply with the One China policy on Taiwan.

"Most strikingly of all, Wang said that the US had not changed its China policy at all from that of the Trump administration, accusing Washington of continuing to undermine the bilateral relationship through hostility. In summary, the call was a cold rebuke of American demands."

Although Escobar hasn't had an article published by Asia Times in awhile, I visit just in case, and today I was rewarded by this, "US, China, Russia race for laser weapon cutting edge," in this case, mounted on jet fighters. IMO, this development deserves its own thread. Peter AU1, since you comment at Martyanov's and I refuse to use Disqus, would you please include that link in a comment to him at his blog about it asking for his opinion?!?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 22:02 utc | 213

No, it's because the amazing duplicity carried out over the last 30 years is finally being revealed

Ah yes, but they can always fall back on plausible deniability.

Doubtless nobody is following the "Big Story" in London.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2022/jan/27/steve-bell-on-johnson-putin-ukraine-and-cake-cartoon


"Partygate". When confronted by the evidence Johnson claimed not to know it was a party.

Despite the singing (Happy birthday to you"?) and the presence of a large cake.

"I didn't know!"

Posted by: John Cleary | Jan 27 2022 22:03 utc | 214

oldhippie
All the Polish area was well and truly settled by the late 1700's
High definition pic of map put together in 1799
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland#/media/File:Map_of_the_partition_of_the_Kingdom_of_Poland_and_the_Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania_fr

At the top left of the actual map is the information of who put it together.
A bit more about the map here https://vividmaps.com/map-of-partitions-of-polish-lithuanian/
“This map is reduced from the Map of Rizzi Zannoni published at Paris in 1772, in 24 sheets, at the expense of the King of Poland.”

From what I can make out, the steppe between the Dnieper and the Don rivers was very sparsely settled at that time if at all.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 27 2022 22:16 utc | 215

John Cleary @214--

At least BoJo didn't inhale the cake!

Bemildred @212--

The only way to know if this theatre is getting global traction is to read NAM nation's media. If Outlaw US Empire media was actually independent, we would see headlines screaming about the huge amount of stupidity and incompetence demanding Blinken's resignation at minimum. Instead, BigLie Media provides Narrative Support and becomes an abetting criminal in the affair.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 22:18 utc | 216

@Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 26 2022 23:00 utc | 31
@Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 26 2022 23:00 utc | 31

You are saying that, in the period of three weeks, on at least three occasions, you came in the contact with otherwise healthy people and after that they all came sick?

Posted by: Haman's 10th Son | Jan 27 2022 15:39 utc | 163


very glad i’m not the only one that noticed that...

Posted by: Rae | Jan 27 2022 22:18 utc | 217

Hopefully Lavrov has something better up his sleeve than an appeal to the ECHR. Nice work for lawyers that will never resolve anything. I can't see much change in the situation unless France or Germany break ranks. War is still a possibility.

Posted by: dh | Jan 27 2022 22:21 utc | 218

The only way to know if this theatre is getting global traction is to read NAM nation's media. If Outlaw US Empire media was actually independent, we would see headlines screaming about the huge amount of stupidity and incompetence demanding Blinken's resignation at minimum. Instead, BigLie Media provides Narrative Support and becomes an abetting criminal in the affair.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 22:18 utc | 216

True, but in the meantime it keeps them occupied, and it beats war. I may be projecting too much, but I would be sure to tangle them in their own bullshit myself, an excellent way to confront the bully.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 27 2022 22:30 utc | 219

dh 218

I think this is dotting i's and crossing the t's in the legal leadup to war not to mention putting a division amongst the 'speaking with one voice' crowd. Russia seems to think the UN is a good idea and all the i's and t's need to be done correctly for the record.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 27 2022 22:37 utc | 220

Here is something I found. ASB Military on twitter. A little more interesting than I neew when I gotta work.
The website seems like it is having problems. I make links, preview them, and then they vanish. oh well.
I don't even know why I do this. Maybe just to hang out with the cool kids.

ASB - Hopefully the link works

Posted by: lex talionis | Jan 27 2022 22:38 utc | 221

@Peter AU1 #215
I suspect the area you mentioned was as "settled" as the American Great Plains were prior to the white man...

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 27 2022 22:42 utc | 222

@220 Yes but Lavrov is a decent guy who believes in international law. He is dealing with the exceptional nation. In my optimistic moments I tend to think France and Germany see Russia as having a good case when it comes to NATO expansion. They are the only countries that can make a difference. We'll never get any sense out of the UK or Poland or Lithuania.

Posted by: dh | Jan 27 2022 22:44 utc | 223

Peter AU1 @215--

I know it's outside the timeframe you're examining, but if you ever find the time, I highly suggest And Quiet Flows the Don, which is a series of four novels of which I've read Robert Daglish's translations from Mikhail Aleksandrovich Sholokhov's originals. It provides a very different POV to Doctor Zhivago, while providing background to the region's history which is what you're looking for.

During the early 1990s while living in Hawaii and having access to the UH Manoa's outstanding library system, I was able to read a translated version of Mykhailo Hrushevsky's History of Ukraine that was published in 1906 if I remember correctly well before the Revolution, Civil War, USSR, and the current calamity. At the time, I'd completed Vernadsky's multi-volume work on Russian History and noted some curious contradictions between the two, which is all I can currently recall of them. If you can find that history--one published long ago--it will provide a different perspective that contradicts the rabid nationalists who only employ some select writings of his to promote their cause.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 22:47 utc | 224

War is still a possibility.

Posted by: dh | Jan 27 2022 22:21 utc | 218

Hello dh

I think you underestimate the Russians.
Where you see weakness, I see regret.

They really do not want to give the US elite the kicking it so richly deserves. Many innocents will suffer as collateral damage.

They will not back down. They have marched to the top of the hill.

And the Grand old Duke of York is heading to the clink!

Posted by: John Cleary | Jan 27 2022 22:50 utc | 225

@225 Not sure why you think I see weakness. Russia is probably in a stronger position than it's been for a long time. And I don't see them as vindictive or vengeful. The people they are obliged to deal with are another matter. Still got to wonder how long all this so-called 'diplomacy' can last.

Posted by: dh | Jan 27 2022 22:56 utc | 226

PeterAU1 @ 215

Correct for Poland by end of 18th. One reason why Catherine consolidated. Borders that hunters and trappers see a few times in their lives are of little interest. When the woods are suddenly full of villages and villagers then politicians pay attention.

The steppe always had just enough settlement that the Tatar slavers would come through every summer. But homesteaders and runaways. Populated villages would have organized defenses.

I’ll recommend Massie’s Peter the Great again.Think you would enjoy it. Someone else here mentioned another Massie who had Reagan’s ear. Wondering how the two were related.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 27 2022 22:59 utc | 227

dh "Still got to wonder how long all this so-called 'diplomacy' can last."

Until US has missiles to deploy. It has set up it's units and launchers, one in US and one in Germany and now all they need is the finished missile with the glide body warhead.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 27 2022 23:03 utc | 228

@228 So you see the First Strike as a possibility? No response from Russia or China?

Posted by: dh | Jan 27 2022 23:06 utc | 229

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 27 2022 11:42 utc | 118

Sorry if I misread your previous comment. Yes I agree with your take @118.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 27 2022 23:07 utc | 230

Late afternoon update -

PM Trudeau isolating, supposedly due to exposure to Covid, probably due to shame from being excluded from Biden’s talk. Canada Post to provide surgical masks for all employees.

First-hand look at German military base in Lithuania. CBC News gains access, report begins at 1:15. (Video down, just above quote from Nuland about not allowing Nord Stream 2 to go forward if Russia attacks Ukraine.) Why CBC needed access less clear.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-ukraine-us-security-talks-1.6330025

Did everyone see that the UK Defence Secretary is meeting with Shoigu?
"I want the Russians to understand the Ukrainians will fight and Russia risks its economy, it risks being isolated, and that is not a legacy [Russian] President [Vladimir] Putin wants to be remembered for," the daily quoted Wallace as saying.“

https://tass.com/world/1393687

And Canada provides additional support to Ukraine, extends its operation Unifier for three years, provides some stuff that will help if you are attacked but won’t help you kill anyone (unless you get really creative).

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-extends-military-operation-in-ukraine-for-three-years-1.5755493

“We have an extremely large footprint relative to our counterparts, indeed we have other countries at the current time suggesting that they join Operation UNIFIER because of the leading role that we play,” said Anand. [that’s Defence Minister Anita Anand]

Really? Who might these countries be who applaud Canada’s leading role? In a bit of irony, Canada is providing support to Ukraine against cyberattacks (if that five eyes department tells you Russia is going to to cyber-attack you, you should probably take that seriously, I’d suggest after last week’s power outage at Global Affairs).

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jan 27 2022 23:22 utc | 231

ould someone kindly let James' in Canada know
that the answer to his question "what am I going to do about it?"
is "Just watch."

I am going to raise an army or two.

This is the Art of Peace.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jan 26 2022 22:52 utc | 29

Genius is born in the most unlikely portion of society; Juaréz, Altamirano.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jan 27 2022 23:24 utc | 232

Sorry dh. Misunderstood this:


Hopefully Lavrov has something better up his sleeve than an appeal to the ECHR. Nice work for lawyers that will never resolve anything. I can't see much change in the situation unless France or Germany break ranks. War is still a possibility.

Posted by: dh | Jan 27 2022 22:21 utc | 218


Followed by:
In my optimistic moments I tend to think France and Germany see Russia as having a good case when it comes to NATO expansion.


Now given that The US has its launch sites in position, that it is conducting a new Manhatten Project to obtain hypersonic missiles, and that its policy is to obstruct, obfuscate and delay. Well.

We've all seen the Westerns. We know that the bad guy is reaching for his gun.....

Posted by: John Cleary | Jan 27 2022 23:24 utc | 233

@231 Freeland, Joli, Anand you sure got some tough chicks there. What does Trudeau do all day? Run around making lattes?

Posted by: dh | Jan 27 2022 23:29 utc | 234

The Saker has linked to a video documenting some of the deployments and sorties I mentioned yesterday, and they are very big and packed with seriousness. The audio's Russian, so go to full screen click cc, then auto translate and select English or whatever you prefer. What caught my ear was deployment of Eastern Military District units and Naval assets; Central and Southern District deployments I'd assumed. For the first time since it became Russia again, most of its naval assets are at sea.

I found this comment from the ensuing thread by JJ rather important. It suggests the Kremlin knows a bit about Divide and Rule:

"'Biden may be blocked by NATO from deployment U.S. forces to ally countries under the NATO Response Force (NRF) Biden has already put 8,500 troops on standby to deploy to Eastern Europe should Russia invade Ukraine, but he needs a unanimous vote from all 30 NATO members to go forward with deploying Some NATO nations – like France, Germany, Hungary and Turkey – don’t want U.S. forces stationed there so they can develop closer ties with Moscow.'
Uk press"

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 23:34 utc | 235

The Saker has linked to a video documenting some of the deployments and sorties I mentioned yesterday, and they are very big and packed with seriousness. Unfortunately, it appears The Saker's site is being blocked again, but most will know where to find it. The audio's Russian, so go to full screen click cc, then auto translate and select English or whatever you prefer. What caught my ear was deployment of Eastern Military District units and Naval assets; Central and Southern District deployments I'd assumed. For the first time since it became Russia again, most of its naval assets are at sea.

I found this comment from the ensuing thread by JJ rather important. It suggests the Kremlin knows a bit about Divide and Rule:

"'Biden may be blocked by NATO from deployment U.S. forces to ally countries under the NATO Response Force (NRF) Biden has already put 8,500 troops on standby to deploy to Eastern Europe should Russia invade Ukraine, but he needs a unanimous vote from all 30 NATO members to go forward with deploying Some NATO nations – like France, Germany, Hungary and Turkey – don’t want U.S. forces stationed there so they can develop closer ties with Moscow.'
Uk press"

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 27 2022 23:37 utc | 236

karlof1

Sholokhov would be interesting to read. Having grown up with the Don Cossack's he would know the local history of that area between the Don and Dneiper rivers.
In looking into the history of the area now marked as Ukraine, it seems to me it may well have settled as an independent new state if not for anglo weaponizing of formally polish held areas to use against current Russia.

I don't know how future historians will go. In last seven or so years, a whole new history has been created for that geograghical region. A lot of photo shopped images of old maps, maps conjured out of thin air, Polish Rus dialects declared Ukrainian language yet the fictional Ukraine based on the Dneiper Cossacks. terms like Rada, the ukraine parliment, come from cossak.
The Polish part of Ukraine has a different history to the Russian part and that is where anglostan have hammered in a wedge.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 27 2022 23:37 utc | 237

Posted by: suzan | Jan 27 2022 17:41 utc | 185 who wrote:

Bio lab escape would not take more than incompetence, neglect and misfortune. Covering it up would take more, like arrogance etc. it’s the cover up that usually shoots in the foot.
____________

What I notice the most about posting to the MOA forum is that people who read this forum tend to not understand what I am saying and that is probably entirely my fault.

I wasn't saying that covid is not an example of TPTB shooting themselves in the foot. I believe its the best example we have ever had of that.
What I was trying to say was that I do believe is that TPTB have caused themselves great harm because of covid, BUT I believe they were doing none of it intentionally.

Before covid came along there has never been any evidence that could convince me that there is some higher power meddling in the affairs of man. That statement will probably be another that is completely misunderstood by those who read this forum, but oh well...


Posted by: jinn | Jan 27 2022 23:38 utc | 238

@ 234, that’s a good question, what with Freeland taking the lead on first the CETA agreement and then the revised NAFTA, and Joly flying off to Kyiv during this time of heightened tensions. He is kind of in the background, albeit not at press conferences. As I understand it, Anand was chosen because she managed to procure vaccines against Covid and the hope is she can use her Midas touch to actually complete successfully a procurement in the Department of Defence.

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jan 27 2022 23:40 utc | 239

Thanks karlof1 for your follow ups. I'd just been over at the Saker site, and his most recent two posts were first, very similar to your 'wait and see' one, but next a video of the two Russian military strategists that to my unsophisticated view is a setting of the stage on three oceans rather like chesspieces on a board being suddenly turned into queens. I'm ignorant, so I won't say more. Let others more qualified than I discuss this.

I'm gonna just wait and see, prayerfully.

Posted by: juliania | Jan 27 2022 23:42 utc | 240

@ karlof 235
[Biden] needs a unanimous vote from all 30 NATO members to go forward with deploying
Where does that come from?
NATO Article 5

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 27 2022 23:47 utc | 241

@233 "Sorry dh. Misunderstood this:..."

Probably my tone. Somewhere between sarcasm and double-entendre. I know it's not to everyone's taste.

@238 Don't know what happened to Trudeau. He seemed to be the darling of Canadian neo-libs for a while. The girls have stuck him in the back room.

Posted by: dh | Jan 27 2022 23:48 utc | 242

I thought China was using this OS. I think too many opinion pieces get obsessed with China becoming an international competitor - rather than just being able to skip past sanctions and perhaps, feed components to Russia. Some sources say ASML is getting scared of China progress (as they should). Payback to the US and EU is going to be a b**ch once China gets those foundries flying past them.

Eighthman | Jan 27 2022 3:11 utc | 71:

It's well known that China doesn't put all of it's eggs in one basket just in case relations sour. Even if China's joint venture with Microsoft doesn't pan out, the Chinese programmers would have gained additional experience in O/S development. I believe the Chinese also have joint ventures with Google as well.

As others here have mentioned, if you throw enough resources at competent people, anything can be achieved. Only time would be the limiting factor.


Before covid came along there has never been any evidence that could convince me that there is some higher power meddling in the affairs of man.

jinn | Jan 27 2022 23:38 utc | 237:

Evidence have been around for a long time for those that follow (geo)politics. Well, I suppose it's better late than never.

Posted by: Ian2 | Jan 27 2022 23:54 utc | 243

dh 229 "@228 So you see the First Strike as a possibility?"

Putin believes that if a fight is inevitable, strike first. He also sees the US (NATO in PC) build up on Russia's borders as barbarossa 2.0.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 27 2022 23:54 utc | 244

@238 Don't know what happened to Trudeau. He seemed to be the darling of Canadian neo-libs for a while. The girls have stuck him in the back room.

Posted by: dh | Jan 27 2022 23:48 utc | 241

I think he is hiding from the truckers.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 27 2022 23:56 utc | 245

I guess if all else fails, a likely yes in answer to your question dh. The problem with predicting what Putin will do, is that he knows of many ways to skin a cat.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 27 2022 23:57 utc | 246

Here is a messed up twitter thing I found. I am a misanthrope, but not as much as these humans.


Ukrainian misanthropes

hopefully the links work. I have been having problems with links. I check them to make sure they work, I try to return and then my post is gone. I don't even know why I do this. sorry. I'm out. Look forward to seeing what the collective brain has to say about everything.

much love.

Posted by: lex talionis | Jan 28 2022 0:07 utc | 247

@245 I was thinking more of some of Putin's Western 'colleagues'. There are some there who think a pre-emptive strike might be the way to go. I'm sure the Russians are prepared for that possibility.

Posted by: dh | Jan 28 2022 0:11 utc | 248

Venezuela welcomes the opportunity for military cooperation with Russia:

Venezuela ready to offer military help to Russia if relations with US exacerbate - envoy

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 28 2022 0:11 utc | 249

from The Saker

Lavrov has said that there are some substantive aspects, but key Russian demands have not been met. He reminded that all OSCE member states, including the USA, that they all have signed the Istanbul Declaration of 1999 and and the Astana Declaration of 2010. Both these documents refer to the indivisible nature of security and make the promise to abide by this principle. Thus, while these documents do uphold the right of every country to chose whatever alliances it wants to join, it prohibits the member states to do so at the cost of the security of any other signatory. . .here

OSCE
Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe
Istanbul Declaration of 1999
CHARTER FOR EUROPEAN SECURITY
Istanbul Summit -- 1999
p. 43 (extract)
The OSCE will work co-operatively with those organizations and institutions whose members individually and collectively, in a manner consistent with the modalities appropriate to each organization or institution, now and in the future:
. . .Actively support the OSCE’s concept of common, comprehensive and indivisible security and a common security space free of dividing lines . .here

OSCE
Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe
Astana Summit Meeting 2010
ASTANA COMMEMORATIVE DECLARATION
TOWARDS A SECURITY COMMUNITY
p. 1 (extract)

2. We reaffirm our full adherence to the Charter of the United Nations and to all OSCE norms, principles and commitments, starting from the Helsinki Final Act, the Charter of Paris, the Charter for European Security and all other OSCE documents to which we have agreed, and our responsibility to implement them fully and in good faith. We reiterate our commitment to the concept, initiated in the Final Act, of comprehensive, co-operative, equal and indivisible security, which relates the maintenance of peace to the respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, and links economic and environmental co-operation with peaceful inter-State relations.
3. The security of each participating State is inseparably linked to that of all others. Each participating State has an equal right to security. We reaffirm the inherent right of each and every participating State to be free to choose or change its security arrangements, including treaties of alliance, as they evolve. Each State also has the right to neutrality. Each participating State will respect the rights of all others in these regards. They will not strengthen their security at the expense of the security of other States. Within the OSCE no State, group of States or organization can have any pre-eminent responsibility for maintaining peace and stability in the OSCE area or can consider any part of the OSCE area as its sphere of influence. . .. .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 0:12 utc | 250

@248 That was posted here a few days ago. Several times in fact. I'm sure Venezuela would support Russia in the event of a war. They owe Russia a lot. Whether that would extend to missile bases or not remains to be seen.

Posted by: dh | Jan 28 2022 0:15 utc | 251

dh "I'm sure the Russians are prepared for that possibility.'

Yep. Their biggest worry now is US deploying maneuvering 'hypersonic' warheads

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 0:18 utc | 252

More from Canada: a Member of Parliament from Manitoba spoke out against Canada's Ukraine policies:

"As a descendent of a Holocaust survivor, the Canadian government’s 120 million dollars of funding for an anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi & fascist militia is horrifying. The rise of white supremacy and fascism is real. Time to stop the cowboy politics!”

This has produced a flurry of reaction: offended...insulted...shocked...basic facts wrong... "Scholars in the Ukrainian community said these types of sentiments about Ukraine’s military are used as bait by the Russians. 'This is a true Russian disinformation tactic used to create friction'

Scholars from Canada's Ukrainian community produced one of the single worst analytical documents ever presented to Parliament back in 2014 - a potted history of Ukraine-Russia relations and the Maidan / coup, filled with provably incorrect suppositions and revisionist history.
https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/manitoba-mp-facing-backlash-over-tweet-about-ukraine-1.5756805

Posted by: jayc | Jan 28 2022 0:21 utc | 253

re: Saker
OSCE
Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe
. . .from p. 1 of the Astana document

2. We reaffirm our full adherence to the Charter of the United Nations and to all OSCE norms, principles and commitments, starting from the Helsinki Final Act, the Charter of Paris, the Charter for European Security and all other OSCE documents to which we have agreed, and our responsibility to implement them fully and in good faith. We reiterate our commitment to the concept, initiated in the Final Act, of comprehensive, co-operative, equal and indivisible security, which relates the maintenance of peace to the respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, and links economic and environmental co-operation with peaceful inter-State relations.
3. The security of each participating State is inseparably linked to that of all others. Each participating State has an equal right to security. We reaffirm the inherent right of each and every participating State to be free to choose or change its security arrangements, including treaties of alliance, as they evolve. Each State also has the right to neutrality. Each participating State will respect the rights of all others in these regards. They will not strengthen their security at the expense of the security of other States. Within the OSCE no State, group of States or organization can have any pre-eminent responsibility for maintaining peace and stability in the OSCE area or can consider any part of the OSCE area as its sphere of influence. . .. .here

Posted by: Don Bdacon | Jan 28 2022 0:28 utc | 254

Posted by: Debsisdead @ 127

I can't disagree with any part of your comment. I am amazed with the boat developed out of the technology.

In addition, I am appalled at the public money Auckland Council and the NZ government threw at the event as well as the double standards of abandoning Covid quarantine restrictions for participants, crew and spectators. Footballers and cricketers are given similar special treatment. While thousands of Kiwis are stuck overseas awaiting the government decision to actually build some managed isolation facilities.

The NZ government operates on a policy of administrative ease. Easy for them and all the administration for the walking filing cabinet people, downloading, uploading, unpaid filing clerks, submitting endless bureaucratic forms and paying tax.

Perth and Fremantle had a lasting economic boom from the Americas Cup event, the atmosphere was spectacular. Freo is a party town. The Bounty replica was built in plain sight on the waterfront.

Auckland's event was a public cost for little return. There is little public mooring but plenty of overpriced food and drink available at the Viaduct.

Posted by: Paul | Jan 28 2022 0:33 utc | 255

@251 If she stays with the 'far right militias' line she should be OK. That's what they are. They seem to be as anti-Russian as they are anti-Semitic..

Posted by: dh | Jan 28 2022 0:47 utc | 256

. . .from 1945
The vaunted Russian special forces ops group Spetsnaz have disrupted Ukraine once during Moscow’s operation in Crimea in 2014. Now the Spetsnaz are reportedly inside Ukrainian territory again working with Russian intelligence operatives to destabilize the Ukrainian opposition, according to British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace.
. . .the US does it better
In 2021, U.S. Special Operations forces — Navy SEALs, Army Green Berets, and others — were deployed in at least 33 European countries, working closely with CIA.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 0:58 utc | 257

A sob story from microsoft which was heavily involved in the US takeover of Ukraine.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-army-veteran-from-wisconsin-tries-to-evacuate-family-from-ukraine/ar-AATdGzT?ocid=BingNewsSearch

Seems to be a lot of dumb female canines that call themselves US involved in UN and Ukraine.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 0:58 utc | 258

Posted by: Paul @ 253

Correction, I think it was the replica of HMS Endeavour not HMS Bounty built on the Freo waterfront.

Posted by: Paul | Jan 28 2022 1:06 utc | 259

I am not sure if this is the saker post being referred to in this comment thread, but this is the link to youtube of a video at the saker site with english subtitles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCt-khoYgKw&t=296s

Everything putting to sea for Russian exercise "Allied resolve-22" The shit is getting very close to the fan...

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 1:11 utc | 260

Couple of developments I am just using the RT links.and have taken some paragraphs.
The diplomatic discourtesy being ratcheted up in Washington is a sight to behold. But first, The homework has finally been handed in and it looks as if the dog didn’t have much to chew on anyway. No wonder Blinken has been slow rolling it. Lavrov explains patiently, and Putin expressed it simply a while ago:

‘Arguing that written assurances that there would be no further expansion are necessary for Russia’s security, Putin claimed that the West “cheated” Russia in the years that followed when Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, and the Baltic states were admitted.
Putin has previously said that the last Soviet premier, Mikhail Gorbachev, was given assurances by the West that NATO would not push into the space left by the collapse of the USSR. A tranche of documents was declassified in 2017, and subsequently cited by a number of analysts as showing that American, British, and German officials verbally assured the Kremlin in the 1990s that NATO would not move into Eastern European countries.
Last month, Russia handed over two draft treaties, one addressed to Washington and the other to NATO, which it says are aimed at reducing the risk of conflict on the European continent. Moscow requested that the bloc refrain from any military activity on the territory of the former Warsaw Pact states that joined after 1997, following the fall of the Soviet Union.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has confirmed that Moscow has received a written response from the US to his country's requests for assurances over NATO expansion, expressing disappointment over the lack of concessions.
“The main issue is our clear position on the unacceptability of further NATO expansion to the East and the deployment of highly-destructive weapons that could threaten the territory of the Russian Federation,” Lavrov explained.

According to Lavrov, the document promised by US Secretary of State Antony Blinken following talks last week in Switzerland failed to address these points.

“It is significant that when our Western colleagues react to our proposals, they always call for the implementation of agreed principles in the Euro-Atlantic... they immediately say this means NATO has the right to expand and no country has the right to prohibit it.” ‘

https://www.rt.com/russia/547491-russia-reveals-response-security-proposal/

————————
‘The US has said that Russian diplomats can stay on its territory for no longer than three years and now demand some of the embassy staff members leave earlier than initially planned, Antonov said. A total of 27 people would have to leave the US by January 30 and another 28 people would have to return to Russia by June 30 under the terms Washington set back in September 2021.
“Everything that has been happening over the recent months … only suggests that the US has taken an increasingly hardline stance” on Russia’s diplomatic presence on American soil, the ambassador said, adding that Washington continues to push Russian diplomats and their families out of the country.’

https://www.rt.com/russia/547459-ambssador-washington-leave-visa-row/

I’m not seeing much de-escalation from the planned assault so far. Unless Biden is paying off the Banderists with his meeting with The Comedian.

Posted by: D.G. | Jan 28 2022 1:16 utc | 261

It has become commonplace to refer to the actions of the US/West (particularly, as regards Russia and China") as "crazy" and "delusional". But, this is a very inadequate way of understanding what is happening, firstly because states are not really capable of acting without reason and, secondly, because, it implies a foregone conclusion i.e. the predetermined failure of the US/West's "crazy" and "delusional" strategy.

The truth is that the US/West strategy is razor sharpe and it's aim is to contain and defeat Russia and China. Alastair Crooke in his resent article describes how this is strategy is being implemented and why Ukraine, Taiwan, and the Houthies/UAE conflict are interlinked conflicts and why we are at a key moment in history:

America’s Armed ‘Sentinel State’ Encirclement (Alastair Crooke)

"Of course! Isn’t it obvious? You can’t barricade a country inside its own territory to enjoy the latitude at a later date to be able to suffocate its economy in any future crisis, and at the same time, accept that Russia and China can set their own red lines – red lines that are formulated precisely to counter their containment, and to counter intimidation through military encirclement.

"What the NDAA" (2022 National Defence Authorisation Act) "does, (perhaps inadvertently), is to underline precisely how the Russian and Chinese situation are inter-leafed reflections of each other’s predicament. The ‘war’ to break containment and encirclement is already underway."

So, we can see that the US cannot allow Russia to limit NATO expansion or have peace with Ukraine, Russia cannot have good relations with the US/West and be allied with China (on the contrary they must be hostile to China), the US must further ratchet up its ring of containment on China and Russia, the most trumped "maximum possible sanctions" must be imposed on Russia (it's just a matter of time), China cannot allow the US to make Taiwan into another hostile military threat, and China cannot allow the Houthies to be defeated/UAE to prevail. There flashpoints are existential to US/West and Russia/China. There is another (non-violent) flashpoint that is under-estimated (in it's effect to undermine the US/West strategy) and that is Nordstream 2. In my view, if NS2 goes ahead it will be a huge blow to the US/West strategy. So, what will Germany do?

If NS2 goes ahead Europe can have cheap energy again but Germany/Europe will move closer to the Russian/China "spheres". I do not think the US/West can allow this because it completely undermines its containment strategy and ties Germany/Europe to a long term energy dependent relationship with Russia. And we can see that the condition is already set - if Russia "invade" Ukraine then NS2 will be cancelled; therefore, there will be a provocation and Russia will be portrayed as having "invades" Ukraine there will be sanctions and NS2 will be cancelled. That is the obvious plan, the only fly in the ointment, in my view, is that it provides an opportunity for Germany to assert true independence and end its status as a vassal state and go ahead with NS2 regardless of what happens in Ukraine (however, I don't think they will).

We in the west need to advocate for a different way and that means urging the US/West to become partners (of equal standing with China and Russa) in the One Belt One Road initiative, because the alternative is an inexorable slide towards war. In addition, Germans/European need to insist on NS2.

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 28 2022 1:26 utc | 262

It has become commonplace to refer to the actions of the US/West (particularly, as regards Russia and China") as "crazy" and "delusional". But, this is a very inadequate way of understanding what is happening, firstly because states are not really capable of acting without reason and, secondly, because, it implies a foregone conclusion i.e. the predetermined failure of the US/West's "crazy" and "delusional" strategy.

The truth is that the US/West strategy is razor sharpe and it's aim is to contain and defeat Russia and China. Alastair Crooke in his resent article describes how this is strategy is being implemented and why Ukraine, Taiwan, and the Houthies/UAE conflict are interlinked conflicts and why we are at a key moment in history:

America’s Armed ‘Sentinel State’ Encirclement (Alastair Crooke)

"Of course! Isn’t it obvious? You can’t barricade a country inside its own territory to enjoy the latitude at a later date to be able to suffocate its economy in any future crisis, and at the same time, accept that Russia and China can set their own red lines – red lines that are formulated precisely to counter their containment, and to counter intimidation through military encirclement.

"What the NDAA" (2022 National Defence Authorisation Act) "does, (perhaps inadvertently), is to underline precisely how the Russian and Chinese situation are inter-leafed reflections of each other’s predicament. The ‘war’ to break containment and encirclement is already underway."

So, we can see that the US cannot allow Russia to limit NATO expansion or have peace with Ukraine, Russia cannot have good relations with the US/West and be allied with China (on the contrary they must be hostile to China), the US must further ratchet up its ring of containment on China and Russia, the most trumped "maximum possible sanctions" must be imposed on Russia (it's just a matter of time), China cannot allow the US to make Taiwan into another hostile military threat, and China cannot allow the Houthies to be defeated/UAE to prevail. There flashpoints are existential to US/West and Russia/China. There is another (non-violent) flashpoint that is under-estimated (in it's effect to undermine the US/West strategy) and that is Nordstream 2. In my view, if NS2 goes ahead it will be a huge blow to the US/West strategy. So, what will Germany do?

If NS2 goes ahead Europe can have cheap energy again but Germany/Europe will move closer to the Russian/China "spheres". I do not think the US/West can allow this because it completely undermines its containment strategy and ties Germany/Europe to a long term energy dependent relationship with Russia. And we can see that the condition is already set - if Russia "invade" Ukraine then NS2 will be cancelled; therefore, there will be a provocation and Russia will be portrayed as having "invades" Ukraine there will be sanctions and NS2 will be cancelled. That is the obvious plan, the only fly in the ointment, in my view, is that it provides an opportunity for Germany to assert true independence and end its status as a vassal state and go ahead with NS2 regardless of what happens in Ukraine (however, I don't think they will).

We in the west need to advocate for a different way and that means urging the US/West to become partners (of equal standing with China and Russa) in the One Belt One Road initiative, because the alternative is an inexorable slide towards war. In addition, Germans/European need to insist on NS2.

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 28 2022 1:26 utc | 263

lex talionis
Followed a couple of threads and links from your comment with the twitter link and run onto these.
Uncle Sam seeing the shrink about its military industrial complex https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1486722839797403654?cxt=HHwWjMCsmfei86EpAAAA

And Raytheon celebrating Houthi drone attacks on UAE.
https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1486812123040825348?cxt=HHwWiIC-mfPvm6IpAAAA

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 1:28 utc | 264

Crooke's latest provokes questions, provides some answers, and makes the brain squirm. I suggest Putin and his military have just shown that containing Russia is impossible, and China has also, meaning the NDAA strategy is already sunk.

Peter AU! @258--

Yes, it's not the images; it's the commentary, the descriptions of the sorties, deployments, mobilizations. Some of us know what that all means, and Crooke tells us those at the helm of the USS Knownothing are exactly that.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 28 2022 1:39 utc | 265

karlof1
Predicting what the 'inscrutable' Chinese will do is more difficult than predicting which way Putin will skin this cat. Talk about interesting times...

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 2:05 utc | 266

Skinning cats??? all I know about them is that in urban organic gardening, they grow good zucchini's and pumpkins. Apparently humans grow good daisies but I've never been into flower gardening.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 2:10 utc | 267

Re NS2

Can any barfly tell me how much each of the participants spent on NS2?

What is Russia's stake in terms of money spent? if Ns2 is blocked, never to work,
how much do NS2 Russian shareholders lose?

As far as selling their gas, there are other buyers available, even if new gasoducts are required.

NS2 is certainly not a major loss for Russia.

Posted by: CarlD | Jan 28 2022 2:52 utc | 268

Russia in Cuba and Venezuela! That would get attention from the world hegemon USA, in Latin America where their Chinese buddies are doing well. Bye-bye, Monroe Doctrine.
>Costa Rica benefits from higher trade flows with China, increased Chinese investment and a new national sports stadium, among other infrastructure and development projects.
>Panama offers a similar story. In 2001–02, its exports to the PRC totalled U.S.$2 million; its imports from China amounted to just U.S.$41 million. After recognising the PRC in June 2017, however, the Panamanian government opened negotiations on a free-trade agreement and became the first in the region to sign up to the Belt and Road Initiative. Two-way trade accordingly multiplied by a factor of 22. Panama’s exports to China rose to U.S.$33 million by 2019, its imports from China mushroomed to 27 times that figure.
>El Salvador--deals for U.S.$500 million worth of development financing for everything from a new sports stadium to a national library and his cherished plan to turn part of El Salvador’s Pacific coast into ‘Surf City’. . .agreement for China to build a new deep-water port in the Gulf of Fonseca to service a special economic zone and logistics hub originally designed to privilege Chinese business interests (and well-connected Salvadoreans).
>Nicaragua abandoned Taipei last month. . . Chinese promises of infrastructure projects and higher trade flow.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 2:55 utc | 269

ADKC #260

We in the west need to advocate for a different way and that means urging the US/West to become partners (of equal standing with China and Russa) in the One Belt One Road initiative, because the alternative is an inexorable slide towards war. In addition, Germans/European need to insist on NS2.

Thank you for that post and I see that global situation in the same light. The Yemen battle space is shifting fast and the UAE may likely not succeed in holding its advantage.

Germany and France both need to crawl out from under the yankee boot but that will take a major effort right now. The likelihood of a false flag / novichok event in Ukraine or Crimea is very high. The empire is getting desperate as they are so close to absolute dominance and yet so far away from any victory and the european faultlines are growing.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 28 2022 2:55 utc | 270

"Germany and France both need to crawl out from under the yankee boot but that will take a major effort right now. The likelihood of a false flag / novichok event in Ukraine or Crimea is very high. The empire is getting desperate as they are so close to absolute dominance and yet so far away from any victory and the european faultlines are growing."

And as Escobar would put it, Between the empire and absolute dominance stands Mr Zircon.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 3:00 utc | 271

@ 260
. . .point of interest
The NDAA focus mentioned by Alastair Crooke is a Pentagon 'dream sheet' which hasn't been funded yet by an appropriations bill. So the Pentagon is operating under a 'continuing resolution,' or last year's budget, which doesn't permit any new starts among other things.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 3:03 utc | 272

Karlof1 @262

You are wrong. Any Russian (or Chinese) military response will facilitate the US/West containment policy. You must be aware by now that the US will not engage militarily with Russia or China, which means that Russia and China, should they resort to military means, will be fighting proxies (which would be a huge propaganda win for the US which they would be able to "weaponise" very effectively).

Crooke does not say that the US are "know-nothings" instead he describes exactly what the US are doing (containment and encirclement) and why (to stop China's rise).

Germany (and, by extension, the whole of Europe) are key here. If Germany refuses to go along with the US strategy, if Germany insists on NS2 no matter what then THAT would be THE major defeat for the US because it brings Europe into a more beneficial, closer "win-win" relationship with Russia and China. Conversely, cancelling NS2 would be a MAJOR victory for the US.

The strategic problem for Russia and China is not the US/West's military force but the ability of the US/West to occupy space around Russia and China and implement a containment and encirclement strategy. Breaking this encirclement is what Russia's and China's redlines are all about. Russia actually using its military power against Ukraine risks losing Germany/Europe and strengthening the US encirclement and containment strategy. So what if Russia defeats Ukraine in a war - no one cares about Ukraine.

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 28 2022 3:10 utc | 273

@ Peter AU1 268 - Fully agree about the false flag business. If I remember correctly, Jen mentioned that there is a bunch of ammonium nitrate stored on the docks of Odessa. That could be a fun little revisit to Lebanon.

On ZH they have this piece about the phone call that the USA State Department wants to be disappeared.

more stupidity from our rulers here in the USA

I want to bounce out of the USA so badly. Vladivostok sounds supercool. Lisbon or Essouiara even better. But I am stuck. Wageslave. Oh well. At least I have MoA.

Thanks b! and everyone else.

Posted by: lex talionis | Jan 28 2022 3:13 utc | 274

@ ADKC 260
The truth is that the US/West strategy is razor sharp and it's aim is to contain and defeat Russia and China.
I respectfully disagree. The US/West can't contain and defeat any country as the record shows.
The strategy, as I've posted before, is to create enemies to justify a mile-high "defense" budget with all the profits that brings. And Russia is especially a 'good enemy' in this sense.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 3:13 utc | 275

As I can't seem to go to either the youtube or the final page on which both karlof1 and someone else are discussing the Saker video, here is what I remember from seeing it there originally. It was the last, most recent offering on his top line of news, and marked 'Must see!' The title also is "Shoigu and Gerasimov Cause Serious Confusion to Nato." Mostly it is one of them at a time reading off lists of the names of ships to be deployed in three areas of ocean - the largest deployment, they claim, since the Soviet era. One area is the Mediterranean, another Northern Atlantic, and the other Northern Pacific. As each group of ships was mentioned they were shown onscreen. There was mention of six coming into the British Channel as I remember, along with where each group would be coming from.

There hadn't been many comments when I saw this around 2pm NM time. One that I agreed with was "Wow!" Sorry, I could only manage to see the ending remarks when I tried again just now on the link given above.

Posted by: juliania | Jan 28 2022 3:20 utc | 276

@ 262
Crooke:

What the earlier patchwork of U.S. China measures lacked, until now, has been an overarching plan for curbing China’s rise, and so ensuring America’s permanent supremacy in the Indo-Pacific region: “The authors of this year’s NDAA” however, “were remarkably focused on this deficiency, and several provisions of the bill are designed to provide just such a master plan”.
These include a series of measures intended to incorporate Taiwan into the U.S. defence system surrounding China. And a requirement for the drafting of a comprehensive “grand strategy” for containing China “on every front”.

That's China's dope-a dope strategy. Get the US to focus on Taiwwan and the South China Sea, meanwhile clean the US clock to China's west -- Europe, Africa and Latin America.. . .It's working!

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 3:26 utc | 277

Don Bacon #271

The strategy, as I've posted before, is to create enemies to justify a mile-high "defense" budget with all the profits that brings. And Russia is especially a 'good enemy' in this sense.

Yes, and they are quite capable of stooping very low in Ukraine to achieve their ends. See NEO: https://journal-neo.org/2022/01/26/does-the-us-intend-to-trigger-a-bacteriological-war/

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 28 2022 3:30 utc | 278

CarlD @265

I understand that Russia bore the entire cost of building NS2. Russia even paid western companies to build substantial parts of NS2 only for those same companies to cease work with something like 3/4 of NS2 complete. NS2 was also built at the specific request of Germany (Russia was reluctant but was assured there would be no problems).

If NS2 is prevented from going "live" then Russia will be able to claim 100% compensation but this would obviously NOT be the case if Russia is deemed to have invaded Ukraine.

However, Russia hasn't lost any money on NS2 because the rise in wholesale gas prices more than covers the cost of NS2. Russia would actually be making less money if NS2 was operating.

But none of that is relevant. The loss of NS2 would be important to Russia because it would mean that Germany/Europe is allied with the US in containing and encircling Russia and China.

The most important thing that German/European people can do is insist on the opening of NS2 and the flow of cheap Russian gas.

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 28 2022 3:30 utc | 279

Make that rope-a-dope, and h/t to Muhammad Ali.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 3:32 utc | 280

@ ut 274
Here's the sick joke of the week:
Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin on Thursday directed the Pentagon to devise plans for reducing civilian casualties that result from the actions of U.S. and partner forces, after an independent examination found widespread inconsistencies in how the military investigates and responds to such incidents. . .here
I'm reminded of the Marine Corps using a howitzer to send un-forward-observed indirect fire into Raqqa Syria, destroying that city and everyone in it. They burned out one gun barrel doing it.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 3:39 utc | 281

ADKC 270

Partly civilian mostly military. The civilian part is more to imbed kinetic military.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 3:46 utc | 282

Don Bacon @271

I don't believe the US military could defeat Russia or China but I am not referring to a "military" defeat. The US has no intention of engaging in a direct military conflict with Russia or China; it aims to defeat them by encirclement and containment and stopping the BRI.

And as for defence industry profits... well, they will completely disappear if US fails to maintain its hegemony. What you see as the "be and end all" I just see as an incentive to contain and encircle China and Russia.

But the good news is that a defeat of the US can be administered by the German and European people by simply demanding cheap energy and that NS2 starts operating... and it wouldn't cost a single life!

BTW, if you truly believed that the US would fail because it is incompetent and couldn't defeat anyone and it was all just about profiteering then you really wouldn't be wasting your time posting here; you would probably be writing letters to the New York Times!

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 28 2022 4:07 utc | 283

@ ADKC
How is the US containing and stopping the BRI? In fact the US strategy in the "Indo-Pacific" is freedom of navigation. State: "When we say that we want a free and open Indo-Pacific, we mean that on an individual level, that people will be free in their daily lives and live in open societies. We mean that on a state level, that individual countries will be able to choose their own path and their own partners." . .How is that containing and stopping anything? And how about the other China successes around the world in Africa, Europe and Latin America?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 4:19 utc | 284

The China hawks are revolting. . .
. . . Josh Rogin, WaPo
"Biden turns Russian troop buildup near Ukrainian border into a global crisis" . . but is mum on China. "Asia is waiting for Biden to make good on his promises on a range of fronts. The Biden administration’s Indo-Pacific economic strategy has yet to be revealed. Several Asian countries don’t even have U.S. ambassadors. The overwhelming majority of U.S. economic assistance and military aid still goes to governments in the Middle East. The Biden team should mount a diplomatic and economic surge in Asia to restore confidence in the U.S. commitment to the region as soon as possible." . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 4:38 utc | 285

Russia, Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela
"Russia will strengthen its strategic cooperation with Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua in “all areas” including the technical-military, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on Wednesday, January 26, during a speech in the Russian Parliament, according to news agencies.

“As for Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela, we have very close relations and strategic cooperation in all areas: in the economy, culture, education, and military-technical cooperation,” said the head of Russian diplomacy."

I look for Russia's relations-- mostly military-- with the "troika" to grow significantly this year. The monster is getting closer.


https://orinocotribune.com/russia-to-increase-cooperation-with-cuba-venezuela-and-nicaragua/

Posted by: migueljose | Jan 28 2022 4:45 utc | 286

ADKC "I don't believe the US military could defeat Russia or China but I am not referring to a "military" defeat. The US has no intention of engaging in a direct military conflict with Russia or China; it aims to defeat them by encirclement and containment and stopping the BRI."

Russia has different thoughts on the subject. What the yanks think, if they are capable of that level of primate intelligence, doesn't really matter much.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 4:46 utc | 287

Debsisdead 85 "Unless my stalker sticks his oar in and manages to piss me off sufficiently that is all I really want to say about this lest I become that which I am rabbiting on about."

Who do you consider your stalker?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 5:02 utc | 288

. . .for down-under-ites.....
Paul Keating flashing some of that Gough Whitlam independence.
...from Pearls and Irritations
Herald indulges UK Foreign Secretary’s demented remarks on China - Jan 23, 2022

Remarks by the British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss that China could engage in military aggression in the Pacific, encouraged by Russia’s contingent moves against Ukraine, are nothing short of demented.
Not simply irrational, demented. . .here

Paul Keating was the prime minister of Australia from 1991 to 1996.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 28 2022 5:22 utc | 289

Xinhuanet is reporting the following
"
Media reports said Lithuania is planning to sell a CIA secret prison in its capital Vilnius where terror suspects were once held in solitary confinement and tortured.

Responding to a question related to the matter at a regular press conference on Thursday, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Lithuania acted as an accomplice for systemic human rights violations by the U.S.
"

When do the Nuremberg trials start?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 28 2022 5:38 utc | 290

A return performance for James and all my friends at the bar here.

That woman on Facebook. She and the CIA are equally persistent and indistinguishable

God damn. I need a drink.

AZLyrics.com
"S.O.B." lyrics
Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats Lyrics
"S.O.B."

I'm gonna need someone to help me
I'm gonna need somebody's hand
I'm gonna need someone to hold me down
I'm gonna need someone to care
I'm gonna writhe and shake my body
I'll start pulling out my hair
I'm gonna cover myself with the ashes of you
And nobody's gonna give a damn!!!

Son of a bitch, give me a drink
One more night
This can't be me
Son of a bitch
If I can't get clean I'm gonna drink my life away

Now for seventeen years I've been throwing them back
Seventeen more will bury me
And somebody please just tie me down
Or somebody get me a goddamn drink

Son of a bitch, give me a drink!
One more night
This can't be me
Son of a bitch!
If I can't get clean I'm gonna drink my life away
Hey! Hey!

My heart is breaking, hands are shaking
Bugs are crawling all over me!
My heart is breaking, hands are shaking
Bugs are crawling all over me
My heart was aching, hands are shaking
Bugs are crawling all over me
My heart was aching, hands are shaking
Bugs are crawling all over me

Son of a bitch, give me a drink
One more night
This can't be me
Son of a bitch
If I can't get clean I'm gonna drink my life away
Son of a bitch, give me a drink
Son of a bitch
This can't be me
Son of a bitch
If I can't get clean I'm gonna drink my life away
Yeah ah
https://youtu.be/1iAYhQsQhSY


And to m. My next ex girlfriend.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jan 28 2022 6:31 utc | 291

@287 DGH - Nice! And I decided to clean up my act today. Wish me luck. Please.
I respond with Lighters Up by lil' kim. Same sentiment, different genre...well sorta. ; )


Posted by: lex talionis | Jan 28 2022 7:04 utc | 292

One of the problems in all this is that the US/NATO is thinking of instigating a limited proxy war. I am not so sure that the response to such an instigation will be limited to US proxies. Indeed they might just be by-passed and the first strike may be at the source of the instigations; that is at the instigators.

This is one way to read the Shoigu, Gersimov video. Russia is preparing for a real war, not a limited proxy war. The West needs to get its head wrapped around this - there is no political victory if you do not exist.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jan 28 2022 7:11 utc | 293

CarlD | Jan 28 2022 2:52 utc | 265

NS2 is certainly not a major loss for Russia

But once in use it is a major loss for the Ukraine. They will lose transit fees, the capability to stop the flow as well as the capability to steal gas as they have done in the past. I don't think this part is ever spoken of in the MSM as it really is quite damning and lays bare the pirate culture so prevalent in the US. From stealing Syrian oil and pirating Iranian tankers it just goes on and on.

indicative of psychopaths in positions to make policy one sees a complete inability to feel shame.

Posted by: dan of steele | Jan 28 2022 7:24 utc | 294

If you don't talk to Lavrov, you will talk to Shoigu.

Here is a tweet from some wanker from the beeb

I want one of these t-shirts

Posted by: lex talionis | Jan 28 2022 7:25 utc | 295

psychohistorian
Who is the enforcer of international law? Seem to me the trials will start when someone pulls out a gun and starts dealing out 'justice'.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2022 7:37 utc | 296

jinn #237

Before covid came along there has never been any evidence that could convince me that there is some higher power meddling in the affairs of man. That statement will probably be another that is completely misunderstood by those who read this forum, but oh well...


Rather than get into a 'misunderstanding' can you be definitive about what a "higher power" is. I can imagine a deity, an alien, an oligarch, an idiot with a virus in a bottle. Fauci seems like an idiot in a powerful position and so would pass for a 'higher power'. Bill Gates is a supreme idiot on a mission from god? godot? or somewhere and certainly has the higher power of wealth and connections. Joe Biden and Donald Trump all qualify as both idiots and higher powers in some way.

What do YOU mean?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 28 2022 9:17 utc | 297

psychohistorian #286

"When do the Nuremberg trials start?"

The USA does not recognise the ICC now. So I guess after they have received a few body blows they won't be in a condition to recognise much at all.

Earlier I took a quick peek at Useful Idiots (Mourning After) and was truly stunned at the lunacy they were attempting to analyse. The show reviews the weekend news channels and the interviews with Blinken. The USA media is truly awful and war mongering madness, they have propagandised themselves into a place of no climbdown without loss of face.

Marching blindly into a war...

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 28 2022 9:31 utc | 298

ADKC #279

But the good news is that a defeat of the US can be administered by the German and European people by simply demanding cheap energy and that NS2 starts operating... and it wouldn't cost a single life!

I believe the lunacy in the UKUSA can only be calmed by senior nations in the EU asserting strenuous effort on the USA. Russia has put forward a broad European security negotiating proposal and the UKUSA has foolishly dismissed it. European nations have here a chance to reverse the incremental destabilising impoverishing reality of NATO and achieve a bonus for both their security and budgets.

It would be a disgraceful act of European incompetence to let this escalate further. The fools, the fools, the fools.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 28 2022 9:43 utc | 299

I just watched this and found it very interesting.
I think it's something Bjørn Andreas Bull-Hansen or Uncle Tungsten would appreciate.
How to eat a pine tree

Posted by: waynorinorway | Jan 28 2022 9:58 utc | 300

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