U.S. Navy Acknowledges Russian Weapon Superiority
Adding to the tenor of yesterday's piece
What Russia Says About Its Not-An-Ultimatum Demands To The U.S. And NATO
is a sign that the U.S. finally recognizes and acknowledges the overwhelming superiority of new Russian weapons like the hypersonic Tsirkon (Zircon) missiles.
Russia has several Corvette/Frigate sized warships in the Admiral Gorshov class with about 5,000 long tons each. They are designated Project 22350. More are these on order. They cost about $120 to $150 $500* million each.
Next to excellent air and missile defenses and electronic warfare capabilities each of these ships has 16 to 32 Vertical Launch System (VLS) cells from which they can fire hypersonic anti-ship and/or land attack missiles.
The U.S. standard navy vessels are the Arleigh Burke class destroyers with about 9,000 long tons. There are currently 69 of them in service with each costing about $1.8 billion.
The Burkes have 96 VLS cells each from which they can fire Tomahawk cruise missiles against land or sea targets. The U.S. has no hypersonic missiles. (Ballistic missiles are supersonic but usually not used for such purposes.) Tomahawks fly at subsonic speed and are no longer up to date. When the U.S. attacked Syria in 2018 with a launch of a total of 103 cruise missiles against 8 targets 71 of those missiles were shot down by air and missile defenses or diverted by electronic means. Only 32 missiles, less than a third, reached their targets.
Hypersonic missiles allow the attacker to overcome the missile defenses any target can currently come up with. That leads to, as Andrei Martyanov teaches in his books, to an overwhelming salvo superiority for the side that has hypersonics:
The result of such calculations is well expressed in a quote from Admiral Turner who Martyanov cites: "It isn't the number of keels, or size of ships that count. It is the capacity to do what might be decisive in some particular situation."
Finally some folks at the U.S. Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey have also done the appropriate math. Here are their results (pg 57):
The literature review section describes the manner in which [Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM)] cruise missiles must be launched in salvos as large as 16 missiles to defeat a target with active defense. Due to its exceptional speed, maneuverability, and low flight path, a single hypersonic glide body missile is likely to be able to overcome an active defensive system that could defeat even a salvo attack of TLAMs.An Arleigh Burke-class destroyer is equipped with 96 TLAMs, or six salvo attacks of 16 missiles each. This means that a vessel equipped with 12 hypersonic missiles can attack as many actively defended targets as two Arleigh Burke-class destroyers firing 16-missile salvos. 12 [All-Up-Rounds (AURs)] was chosen as the highest rating for this attribute because it represents the offensive equivalent of two entire vessels in the scenario where an actively defended target is being attacked.
One Russian Admiral Gorshov class corvette of some 5,000 tons with 16 hypersonic missiles and costing some $150 $500 million has MORE firepower than two U.S. Arleigh Burke class destroyers with 9,000 tons each, 192 missiles and costing a total of some $3.2 billions.
Its not just me, Andrei Martyanov or Russian diplomats claiming that but postgraduate folks paid by the U.S. Navy.
The results of hypersonic missiles against enemies with no hypersonic capabilities are truly impressive. That quite obvious fact is only now sinking in with U.S. subject experts:
Steve Trimble @TheDEWLine - 19:04 UTC · Dec 22, 2021
Fascinating study. A Navy fleet planner posits how 1 ship with 12 CPS hypersonic missiles may have the same striking power as 2 Arleigh Burke destroyers with 192 Tomahawks.
Patrick Armstrong, a former military analyst in service with the Canadian diplomatic corps, recently listed a number of measures Russia could take to press for a U.S. sign-off of its Not-An-Utimatum draft treaties. I would like to draw your attention to this one:
I believe (suspect/guess) that the Russian Armed Forces have the capability to blind Aegis-equipped ships. Moscow could do so in public in a way that cannot be denied. Without Aegis, the US surface navy is just targets. Objection: this is a war-winning secret and should not be lightly used. Unless, of course, the Russian Armed Forces have something even more effective.
Burke class destroyers are equipped with the Aegis integrated naval weapons system. If Russia can disable it by blinding its sensors, which I have also reason to believe to be true, Russia does not even need hypersonics to kill those ships. In a conflict with Russia or its allies the premier U.S. Navy ships are just useless metal-hulls destined to sink to the ground of the ocean the happen to float on.
By the way - Russia does not depend on just a handful of Gorshov class corvettes. Its Yasen class submarines can also fire Tsirkons. It also has supersonic Onyx anti-ship missiles that can be fired from various surface ship classes, submarines or from land based launchers as well as the hypersonic Kh-47M2 Kinzhal anti-ship missiles that can be launched from fighter jets or bombers.
When the U.S. or Britain send ships into the Baltic or Black Sea it is solely for propaganda purpose. If a real conflict with Russia breaks out those will be killed within minutes.
And its not just the U.S. Navy that can not take on Russia. Scott Ritter is a former Marines intelligence officer and UN inspector:
Scott Ritter @RealScottRitter - 18:09 UTC · 22 Dec 2021An open challenge to the US Army—on a moments notice (not of your choosing) deploy two heavy brigades to the NTC within one week, ready on arrival to conduct intense combined arms exercises lasting a month. Not going to happen. What makes anyone think we matter in Europe?
My point is the US is but a shadow of its former strength when it comes to projecting ground combat power in Europe. The one Armor BCT we have on rotation isn’t enough. Neither is the second Armored BCT we’ve prepositioned equipment for in Poland.
Sending a handful of U.S. bombers to Romania is also propaganda targeting the 'western' public and not a real challenge to Russia's air defenses. In a real conflict they would hardly be able to take off before being hit.
Russia has achieved military supremacy over U.S. and NATO forces and not only in Europe. That is why it can make demands and why it can have expect that these will be fulfilled. The 'or else' behind these not-an-ultimatum demands is too obvious for those in the known.
Now is the time for the pundits and the public they preach to to recognize that.
---
*The $150m was my mistake. It was for a different ship. $500 million (Rs4,000 crore) was the sales price mentioned in some Indian paper about the possible purchase of a Admiral Gorshov class frigate. Russia will likely pay much less than that.
Posted by b on December 23, 2021 at 9:41 UTC | Permalink
Great analysis as usual, and you haven't mentioned the carrier killer Sunburn missile
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Dec 23 2021 10:19 utc | 2
m@1:
Feel free to test your theories. Don't forget to live stream it for the rest of us.
Posted by: Ian2 | Dec 23 2021 10:23 utc | 3
@ m #1
I suppose this is the official U.K. line even after your ridiculous assertions have been proven to be the fantasies of a has been power. 😏
Posted by: Beibdnn. | Dec 23 2021 10:24 utc | 4
I seem to recall that it was claimed that the Abqaiq–Khurais missile attack would herald the Saudi capitulation to the Houthis.
Yet Saudi petroleum continues to flow and the conflict in Yemen (and the horn of Africa) remains unresolved.
The great suddenness of this ongoing battle is quite lethargic.
Posted by: anon | Dec 23 2021 10:25 utc | 5
Posted by: m | Dec 23 2021 10:15 utc | 1
As an inveterate AH, you seem in an incorrigible manner turning your cheap self inside out!
Posted by: Grishka | Dec 23 2021 10:37 utc | 6
Mr reality has called again
A suite of economic sanctions it's going to be from uncle Sam.
If anything kinetic happens or is staged to happen in the Ukraine.
Military dick waving is off the table it seems.
Posted by: JPC | Dec 23 2021 10:43 utc | 7
RE: Posted by b at 9:41 UTC | Comments (7)
“The result of such calculations is well expressed in a quote from Admiral Turner who Martyanov cites: "It isn't the number of keels, or size of ships that count. It is the capacity to do what might be decisive in some particular situation."
An improvement on my-schlong-is-bigger-than-your-schlongness, but still immersed in notions of magic bullets and a modicum of “war” is restricted to things that go bang.
Posted by: NotEuclid | Dec 23 2021 11:15 utc | 8
Russia has issued an ultimatum. Essentially a re-run of the Cuban Missile crisis but with a reversal of the adversary positions.
A few caveats - the US was unaware Russia had viable nuclear missile systems present in Cuba. The US administration believed these missile systems were en-route. They were acting to prevent their arrival and installation.
The world perched on the brink of nuclear conflict. Not only did the USSR have the capacity for a pre-emptive strike but, in an associated incident, a USSR submarine Captain believed he was under attack by US ASW vessels and was about to defend. His defensive response had the potential to unleash the maelstrom both major powers sought to avoid.
The question to be asked and answered is "Does the present Biden administration have the capacity to understand its present position?"
The answer to this question must take cognizance of the fact elements of the US government waged war on a newly elected president and did all in their power to deny him the opportunity to govern.
Elements of the US government, aided by techno-capitalists, misled the US public and created conditions conducive to putting a befuddled octogenarian in the White House.
The same US government has undermined scientific endeavour and the medical profession while combating a pandemic. The same US government demonstrates an incapacity for fiscal reality. The same US government insists on prosecuting persons such as Julian Assange, and others, who revealed US indiscriminate killing of civilians, facts only recently being published in the NYT. The same US government is undertaking a series of show trials of persons who committed misdemeanour trespass on January 6th, an event which gives evidence of government malfeasance and/or entrapment.
We will ignore for the moment the entirety of woke-ism, a political philosophy which suggests persons of one skin colour can kill, cause millions in property damage, attack state institutions, and run riot, but be applauded for it, but if you defend against such behaviour and your skin colour is different you will face capital charges.
Does anyone honestly believe the government outlined above has the intellectual competency to understand they may be looking down the barrels of a hypersonic nuclear shotgun?
Posted by: Sushi | Dec 23 2021 12:03 utc | 9
Posted by: m | Dec 23 2021 10:15 utc | 1
Yeah, these "white niggers", "chinks" or "hajis" can never come up with anything, right?
Posted by: Passer by | Dec 23 2021 12:19 utc | 10
This is one of the few times in my life where the trajectory is truly unpredictable.
We know the West is mired in narcissism and greed resulting in the erosion of their civilization. We know Russia abased herself until the abuse got too much and decided to play for time in order to develop military superiority. We know that the US sold out it's citizens in favor of cheap labor in China, Indonesia and India going so far as to decommission every oxygen furnace in the country. We know the Russians desperately want to avoid armed hostilities. We know the Chinese are agnostic to Western suffering.
What I can't see is how Putin/Xi have resolved to play their advantages to resolving the situation non-confrontationally. I fear they may have concluded that the only way out is to goad the West into provocation while they have the advantage. The thing is, they will have the advantage for a long time. The US and West in general is too corrupt to devise and build any equivalent weapons, especially without Chinese support for materials.
The Russians have certainly changed their rhetoric and it's almost funny to see the Sergei's speak so candidly although I do miss Lavrov's incredible subtlety when insulting his "partners."
Whither does the wind blow? This way and that.
Meanwhile, the rubes are being distracted with tales of COVID. Given the collective inability to respond to this pathogen with clarity, unity and purpose, I have little hope the West will do anything but fall into the trap set for them.
Posted by: New Guy | Dec 23 2021 12:28 utc | 11
Perusing the comments section so far in regards to this post one deeply worrying observation occurs.
When the analysis of bodies such as the US Navy Postgraduate School and conclusions of long standing weapons experts like Scott Ritter can be conclusively 'disproven' via a few one liners in a couple of sentences by below the line commentators it reveals the sorry state of US strategic analysis capabilities.
Perhaps there are still too many members of the Reality Based Community operating at these levels?
Posted by: Ron Soak | Dec 23 2021 12:31 utc | 12
Ships with 5000 tons can never be classified as corvette, frigate or destroyer is the correct term though Russians designate theirs as frigates.
Posted by: Kemerd | Dec 23 2021 12:33 utc | 13
>>>>: Sushi | Dec 23 2021 12:03 utc | 9
Russia has issued an ultimatum. Essentially a re-run of the Cuban Missile crisis but with a reversal of the adversary positions.
Nah, this is an exact rerun of the Cuban Missile Crisis which was "engineered" by Khrushchev to get Jupiter nuclear-armed missiles (IRBMs) out of Italy and Turkey as Khrushchev regarded them as destabilising. Washington didn't really understand or learn from what happened last time when the Russians and Cubans visibly prepared the facilities ready for the missiles and visibly sent the missiles off to Cuba. This time, I suspect, the first Washington will know is when the missiles are in place and activated (prepared for firing). The cost to Washington of its stupidity? All US nuclear weapons removed from Europe?
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 23 2021 12:59 utc | 14
I am not one of those who cries "astroturf" at the drop of a hat, like many commenters.
But the sudden proliferation of new commentators in this thread is certainly interesting, as is the way they are clearly trying to reinforce each other.
Posted by: c1ue | Dec 23 2021 13:23 utc | 15
@ c1ue | Dec 23 2021 13:23 utc | 15 with the troll observation.....Yep!
Thanks for the posting b
I am reading that there is agreement for talks starting in January sometime.....the devil is in the details....
How will this "crisis" be managed in the West is the biggest question to me?
Interesting times indeed.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 23 2021 13:35 utc | 16
You should read the ludicrous Canadistani propagandist Gwynne Dyer for a laugh:
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 23 2021 13:42 utc | 17
Russia can prevent Ukraine from joining NATO and becoming a missile base because they have escalation dominance but as long as the U.S. stops short of doing that, we can strut around with our Black Sea exercises.
Russia is enforcing the status quo.
Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Dec 23 2021 13:54 utc | 18
Ships with 5000 tons can never be classified as corvette, frigate or destroyer is the correct term though Russians designate theirs as frigates.
Posted by: Kemerd | Dec 23 2021 12:33 utc | 13
Russians can and do call their ships whatever they like. Being their language, we get Jack S..t to say about it. What we translate it to in English is our problem.
---
I have always thought it was very stupid policy to make a habit of pissing everybody off and especially your enemies. It may look great in "Braveheart", but in real life it makes you lots of implacable enemies too.
Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 23 2021 13:55 utc | 19
The most important part of the Russian arsenal is that they have the full support of China.
China has even endorsed the Russian proposals for treaties in Eastern Europe.
Posted by: bob sykes | Dec 23 2021 14:04 utc | 20
b wrote :
Russia has achieved military supremacy over U.S. and NATO forces and not only in Europe. That is why it can make demands and why it can have expect that these will be fulfilled. The 'or else' behind these not-an-ultimatum demands is too obvious for those in the known.Now is the time for the pundits and the public they preach to to recognize that.
This 'or else' notion isn't clear to this reader. Perhaps you could be more explicit in what you have in mind. How does the alleged qualitative superiority of Russian weapons compel the West to accede to Russia's demands? Is anyone expecting Russia to attack the US frontally? Is anyone expecting the US to attack Russia frontally?
How does any of this change Western belligerence around the world?
When the U.S. attacked Syria in 2018 with a launch of a total of 103 cruise missiles against 8 targets 71 of those missiles were shot down by air and missile defenses or diverted by electronic means. Only 32 missiles, less than a third, reached their targets.There are two ways to look at this incident:
- We can celebrate the efficacy of the defensive platforms. 71 out of 103, yay!
In my opinion, this narrow outlook misses an essential point.
- We can also note that the US waged an unprovoked attack on a sovereign state and suffered absolutely no consequence. It built a narrative in very short time, rallied diplomatic support, swaggered over and punched Syria in the face. And that was it. The message was, I could be back anytime, anywhere, got it?
The important point being that it will be back. And we're not just talking about Syria and were aren't just talking about kinetic warfare.
Weapon superiority is not a necessary prerequisite for the Empire. As long as it enjoys complete liberty in belligerance initiative, it will stick to its game and pummel the little guy.
Posted by: robin | Dec 23 2021 14:06 utc | 21
#1
In your dreams!
Contrary to the yankees, the Russians strive for peace, not for war. To publicise these new weapons means dissuasion.
Now if the yankees want to call it a bluff, please proceed. Remember the uss donald cook?
https://thesurvivalmovement.com/what-really-happened-to-the-uss-donald-cook-in-the-black-sea/
Posted by: Olivier | Dec 23 2021 14:12 utc | 22
will condone the fact "Luckily m" being in deep misleading reasoning at the moment.
The wunderwaffen anouncement came as late late in March 1, 2018 as everyone recalls. This was after 18 (eighteen) years of attacks, hybrid wars, separatism incentived plots, and worldwide propaganda trumpeting against Russia.
It goes without saying that it was the time it took Putin to navigate first in the 'our dear western partners' to 'our adversaries' phase. While building up their current military.
Now it s too late for you and them.
The train of the non-ultimatum has left the station.
Posted by: m | Dec 23 2021 10:15 utc | 1
Hi "m".
How much are you paid for your counter-narrative tripe?
Based on the current quantity of your posts, I'd assume it's on a word-based/post-based rate of remuneration, although your bosses really aren't receiving much quality for their expenditure.
You could always move up in the world, say, by dressing up as Ronald McDonald for childrens parties, or find work as a speed hump in a car park.
Go get fucked,
Yours faithfully,
Jonathan
Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Dec 23 2021 14:51 utc | 24
A piece of wonderful news for world peace.
Russia won't go UncleSam-crazy anytime soon. And UncleSam is being put in a straitjacket by Russia.
Otherwise, the world would be at the mercy of a few tribal inbreds.
Posted by: nme | Dec 23 2021 15:00 utc | 25
Russia may have military dominance, but how can that compare to the 435 vertical sanction launchers in Capitol Hill and many more in the Pentagram and Foggy Bottom?
Russia needs to understand the bleak world that awaits them if they are cut off from Coca Cola, Easy Cheese Cheez Whiz in aerosol cans, Ding-Dongs, Oreos and Little Debbie cookies.
Posted by: Simplicius | Dec 23 2021 15:10 utc | 26
I still don't see how Russia resorting to 'military-technical' countermeasures, namely deploying hardware, really pushes the empire into agreement. the empire is now institutionally incapable of real dialogue and diplomacy. they only understand force, which is the only language they themselves speak, and delusions can only be dispelled by getting smacked. I think some kinetic 'awakening' has to happen for there to be stability.
Posted by: mastameta | Dec 23 2021 16:02 utc | 27
The Arleigh Burke's are two generations old, so a one-to-one comparison seems slightly misleading. The more relevant issue will be the enormous extrapolated cost, of rolling out a new generation of replacements for the US Navy. (especially while China is cranking out the also similar Type-54A at rates the US cannot hope to duplicate).
These ships are also, if I understand correctly, most valuable in a defensive role. In the 2000s became a key part of the ABM system in particular, and due to their number and mobility, this was a real threat. As I understand from a non-military background, this seems to be what forced the revival of Russian strategic weapons development, so now we are looking at the result of all that.
Posted by: ptb | Dec 23 2021 16:28 utc | 28
If all this is as you say, B, it simply increases the likelihood of nuclear escalation.
Posted by: Pnyx | Dec 23 2021 17:13 utc | 29
Maybe the failed state of Anti-Nord Stream North America should go back to equipping their transoceanic (overseas) forces and servicemen with Springfield and Krag-Korgensen rifles? Those weapons after all won their wars with themselves in 1861-1865!
Posted by: Tollef Ås اس طلف | Dec 23 2021 17:22 utc | 30
Kraag-Jorgensen, sot Krag-Korgensen riles. Sorry for mistake. But the whole point is that those rifles cannot be spotted and localized by modern Russian nor MAinland Chines radar location systems. Also, I'm sure most deluted, diluted dissilloushioned and scuiside-prone GIs will be more than happy to succumb thru faulds of their commanding jeneral officers than having to walk around sleeping outside and undernourished in US of Nort A towns and cities before kicking thait own buckets (if they can afford one).
Posted by: Tollef Ås اس طلف | Dec 23 2021 17:31 utc | 31
Posted by: Simplicius | Dec 23 2021 15:10 utc | 26
Russia may have military dominance, but how can that compare to the 435 vertical sanction launchers in Capitol Hill and many more in the Pentagram and Foggy Bottom?Russia needs to understand the bleak world that awaits them if they are cut off from Coca Cola, Easy Cheese Cheez Whiz in aerosol cans, Ding-Dongs, Oreos and Little Debbie cookies.
Indonesia gives up on Russian aircraft purchase, instead turning to US and French options
While Indonesia has not explicitly said so, it’s possible its reticence to conclude the Su-35 acquisition was due to concern the move could trigger U.S. sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. The law was passed by Congress in 2017 and is meant to discourage governments or entities from acquiring weapons as well as military hardware and parts from American adversaries like Iran, North Korea and Russia.
Posted by: hopehely | Dec 23 2021 17:58 utc | 32
The problem does not lie within the mass of the US military. Yes, there are always careerist officers wanting to make rank through war but...that is a small portion of ANY military.
The real problem is the DC/NYC/WestCCs nexus of Security State [SS] elites. That would be the current "leadership" of the D-party, who sold their soul to the [SS] and...the Cheney/Romney Rs. These elitist Rs were onboard when the Dulles Bros made the nation's first step on the long march to Moscow but...
The Ds have become lackeys of the SS by taking a slightly different trajectory. In order to facilitate take over the party by the Al-From*-Ds[in name only]they needed to expel the remaining FDRists...the SS was more than willing to aid in the endevour. What dirt the SS couldn't find in their dossiers they actively surveilled for. With this information the party roster was successfully purged and in turn, the Ds[INO] were made entirely vassal to the SS.
With rare exception, which are often military officers, both party's apparatchiks are at the beck and call of the SS. Which means both parties, with rare exception, serve to bring to fruition, the Dulles Bros great dream**, of subjugating the great lands of Russia under the iron fist of the Anglo/Frank/Germanic "leadership".
On the occasions when I've heard this megalomania inspired dream expressed, I've asked: "Suppose all these plans go off without a hitch; suppose you conquer Russia completely; what are you going to do then; how are you going to maintain control of a territory so vast, so hostile, so logistically unforgiving?" Rather than ask whether it can be done, rather than ask whether it's worth the blood & treasure, ask what's the plan should we, against all odds, succeed?
In 1991 I had hoped the insane dream of these fools would die with their generation, that the USA would bring Russia in from the cold, just as we had with Germany/Japan/Korea/Taiwan. After all, Russia acceded to ALL OF STATED DEMANDS but no, Hillary[and her Al-From* ilk] was/is a "Goldwater girl-[D]" and the insanity that brought us to today...ensued. We will lose the US empire because a bunch of nut-jobs won't take Да for an answer.
*Read his book, he actually details what he did!
**and Churchill's vision...and the Nazi's attempt.
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 23 2021 17:59 utc | 33
By the way - Russia does not depend on just a handful of Gorshov class corvettes. Its Yasen class submarines can also fire Tsirkons. It also has supersonic Onyx anti-ship missiles that can be fired from various surface ship classes, submarines or from land based launchers as well as the hypersonic Kh-47M2 Kinzhal anti-ship missiles that can be launched from fighter jets or bombers.
To say nothing of the fact that the small but deadly Russian vessels can lurk inobtrusively under the trees in some small inland river or canal deep inside Russia and shoot precision cruise missiles at a target a thousand miles away. (Iran took that concept even further with swarms of small missile-launching speedboats).
Posted by: BM | Dec 23 2021 18:10 utc | 34
In 1991 I had hoped the insane dream of these fools would die with their generation, that the USA would bring Russia in from the cold, just as we had with Germany/Japan/Korea/Taiwan. After all, Russia acceded to ALL OF STATED DEMANDS but no, Hillary[and her Al-From* ilk] was/is a "Goldwater girl-[D]" and the insanity that brought us to today...ensued. We will lose the US empire because a bunch of nut-jobs won't take Да for an answer.
---
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 23 2021 17:59 utc | 33
Agree. I've been waiting for this since the early 80s when I realized they had no intention of giving up on the warmongering after Korea & Vietnam. It was ALWAYS a stupid idea to try to rule the world. When Bush the Lesser and Chyenay went into Iraq, I decided to try to live long enough to watch.
Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 23 2021 18:18 utc | 35
Posted by: mastameta | Dec 23 2021 16:02 utc | 27
Totally agreed. You put it most succinctly. It seems that many here fail to grasp that the problem isn't contemporary reality, context and facts on the ground, but how the leadership of the Anglo-American empire perceives the aforementioned factors.
By now there should be no doubt that responsible statemanship by Russia, China, Syria, Nicaragua, Venezuea etc. is treated as an expression of weakness on the part of the targeted countries. A few months ago, Robert Kagan, a leading neoconservative ideologue and husband of Victoria Nuland, penned an article where he insisted that the developments up to that point had shown that there was still roon for more application of imperial power on adversaries. He included Trump's era in it as well. Every act and statement emenating from imperial potentates adn their lickspittles in the MSM shows that this belief is the prevalent now.
The events in Afghanistan and maybe Belarus have shown that the only kind of language that will relieve these sociopaths from their dangerous deludiond is the smack-down that you mentioned.
Posted by: Constantine | Dec 23 2021 18:26 utc | 36
thanks b....
@ robin | Dec 23 2021 14:06 utc | 21... the wider disconnect continues, as demonstrated by the msm or the one liner bozos @ 1 and etc... talk is cheap.. reality is a different matter all together..
i think @ mastameta | Dec 23 2021 16:02 utc | 27 nails it....
Posted by: james | Dec 23 2021 18:37 utc | 37
@robin | Dec 23 2021 14:06 utc | 21
I agree. While I agree with almost everyone in this thread, sorry m, recent threads have been pretty shortsighted. I'm sure the Russians realize their technical advantage can only be temporary, and are utilizing their advantages while they can.
Searching for the "Russian ultimatum" on the western corporate mouthpieces, it doesn't even register. I'm sure 99% of Americans are absolutely clueless. The propaganda masters are most probably formulating a line of bs that will make Russia look like they aggressor. There really is no access to the masses by non-corporate media.
The questions to me is, "can the East make the West uncomfortable enough without starting a nuclear holocaust to come to reason, or will the West spin the situation to increase its aggression?"
What truly frightens me is when the Empire develops its own hypersonic weapons and first strike tactics become very attractive to the idiots and sociopaths running the Western show.
Posted by: Michael.j | Dec 23 2021 18:49 utc | 38
This lunatic, Roger Wicker, is a ranking member of the Senate armed services committee https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/12/how-biden-can-outfox-putin-in-ukraine/#slide-1
How Biden Can Outfox Putin in Ukraine
I was reading this and noticing that this was more deranged than usual and figured this was a Brian Kilmeade, an ex-sports writer, just shooting his mouth off, but a Senator? Here are some choice excerpts.
"First, President Biden should make clear that there is no scenario under which Ukraine will be overrun by Russia, period....This means leaving all options on the table and granting no concessions....NATO should send additional troops to supplement Ukraine’s ground forces. Top Ukrainian military brass have made clear that, ... A surge of NATO troops would deter Putin from invading while demonstrating NATO’s enduring value as a pillar of European security."
Why bother joining NATO when this Senator will simply grant you all of the protections as long as you fight someone we hate. It looks like he is rather confident that we can beat the Russian Federation in their own backyard without even breaking a sweat.
Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Dec 23 2021 19:08 utc | 39
Tollef Ås اس طلف | Dec 23 2021 17:31 utc | 31
Kraag-Jorgensen, sot Krag-Korgensen riles. Sorry for mistake. But the whole point is that those rifles cannot be spotted and localized by modern Russian nor MAinland Chines radar location systems. Also, I'm sure most deluted, diluted dissilloushioned and scuiside-prone GIs will be more than happy to succumb thru faulds of their commanding jeneral officers than having to walk around sleeping outside and undernourished in US of Nort A towns and cities before kicking thait own buckets (if they can afford one).
There's no excuse, (waves @ patroklos (meh)) for this .. Use Yandex.Translate, it is exceedingly good !
Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Dec 23 2021 19:12 utc | 40
"After all, Russia acceded to ALL OF STATED DEMANDS"
*....is treated as an expression of weakness on the part of the targeted countries
This is the key signal that the US has used before to start the real hostilities on the ground. Iraq. Hussein gave a 600 page list of all military installations and defenses to the UN. Or at least tried to - this was intercepted and only a select part was given to the UN. (The US boasted that they had learnt about a bunker they did not know about before).
Libyia. Ghaddafi had "admitted" the Lockerbie Aircrash was made in Lybia, and paid reparations. ETC.
Both subjugations of countries had been pre-planned and the scenario was not changed at all in spite of efforts for peace by the target nation.
***
Putin has changed somewhat the planned takeover of Russia itself. It probably won't change the "best laid plans of mice...." as they are too far advanced to know how to stop.
There may be a pause, but being the arrogant idiots they are, the time will be used to "secretly" continue. Putin is aware of this which is why his offer is "time limited" and needs more than just words as filling.
*****
Some in the west may be listening. A "truce" has been declared in the Donbas, (it is not sure the Luhansk people are on board). As always, nothing is sure. A calm during Noel will allow the Uke handlers more time to visit their families? Or more time for the US to supply more arms via Santa Claws and his Dearies?
***
One thing is that any aggression by either side will probably also include a NATO threat/attack on Belarus as a distraction for Putin's forces.
****
Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 23 2021 19:13 utc | 41
Both prices for the ship could be correct. Russian arms exports are sold for a profit (though often with far better value for money, and fewer restrictions, than western equivalents), and the Russian MOD and very close Russian military dependants, get a steeply discounted price. So a ship with support (and maybe missiles) may be $500 million, where the Russian MOD may only pay $150 million and would have indigenous support (and the missiles under a separate line item).
Whenever you see the Russian export price for a military object assume the Russian MOD got it for a fraction of that.
Posted by: James | Dec 23 2021 19:19 utc | 42
technical- military measures could be:
Destruction of all western Military satellites and the GPS ones specially.
Russians and Chinese would still have their own systems.
Blind america, where to your Cruise missiles, tanks and APCs, planes, ships, submarines ICBMs?
Remember the recent Russian satellite destruction?
Posted by: CarlD | Dec 23 2021 19:58 utc | 43
The Defense Post, Sept 17 2001, New S-500 Air Defense System enters service.
THE S-500 uses 77N6-N1 and the 77n=n1 missiles which can be fitted with an inert warhead capable of destroying enemey nuclear warheads with precision.
We life in a post MAD world, hence the ultimatum
Posted by: archeon | Dec 23 2021 19:58 utc | 44
Perhaps what should worry the US Navy even more than Russian hypersonic weapons is that its own battleships' defences, and even the quality of the materials from which the ships are built, may not fully meet the standards to which they were supposed to built.
Recall the recent MoA post in which a retired US inspector was indicted and facing jail-time for fudging the results of tests in which steel produced for US Navy submarines was supposed to withstand subzero temperatures of up to minus 100 degrees Centigrade. She decided the tests demanded were pointless as US Navy subs rarely experience such extreme environments with such low temperatures. As a result there are naval submarines made from steel that did not meet the Navy's criteria. Is this inspector an anomaly or are there others like her who have given similar approvals on dubious grounds for the quality or composition of materials going into US Navy vessels, warships, subs and carriers alike?
The US Navy should be concerned that even conventional weapons from Russia and other nations supplied by Russia could inflict a lot of damage to its ships and subs, if some of those vessels are substandard in their construction.
Plus shortages of naval personnel to maintain equipment on ships and to keep it all in good order must be a worry.
Posted by: Jen | Dec 23 2021 20:02 utc | 45
Ah yes 36,
The upward failing tag team of Kagan & Nuland...where would we be without those two clowns?
The Kagan & Nuland tag team ACTUALLY SUPPORTED NAZIS in 2014..during the US orchestrated coup in the Ukraine and then, with a straight face, Kagan wrote a column that explicitly said [and I am paraphrasing here], anyone not supporting Hillary was, by definition, racist and most likely a Nazi.
As Joseph Goebbels so succinctly put it, [and I am paraphrasing here], "If you tell a lie and keep repeating it, people will come to believe it but...as long as the consequences are kept hidden".
I am old enough to remember when a Jew could not in good conscience, at least not publicly, support Nazis. Oh how the times have changed, "never again" now has an asterisk attached, it's meaning blasphemously adulterated. The Security State [SS] apparatchiks, the prodigy of the Dulles Bros many world-wide fornications, must chuckle when they read a column from Kagan. They must think to themselves; "yes..yes..it's good to be King".
That said, should a war in the Ukraine occur..and should it go as badly for the US as the logistical situation would dictate, will those responsible face any consequence? If past is prologue, I think not but, the US's empire could well crumble, Xi could well seize the moment to thrust China out into the western Pacific which would be a mortal wound to the USA's empire. Not since Athens war on Syracuse has an empire been so gleefully traded away for a war whose only possible justification is the unbridled vanity of an elite class of people completely insulated from the consequence of their actions.
[and again, I am paraphrasing here]
"They were a careless people...they smashed up things and then retreated to their secure enclaves...they forced other people to clean up the mess they made"
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 23 2021 20:08 utc | 46
By the way - Russia does not depend on just a handful of Gorshov class corvettes. Its Yasen class submarines can also fire Tsirkons. It also has supersonic Onyx anti-ship missiles that can be fired from various surface ship classes, submarines or from land based launchers…
A week ago, it has also tested Otvet, a new anti-submarine missile (Kalibr missile + parachute + homing torpedo). Kalibr, Oniks, Otvet and Tsirkon can all be fired from standard-sized cells of the UKSK (3S14) vertical launch system, allowing ships to be quickly re-configured (however, older ship classes do not support Oniks and Otvet; support for Tsirkon is unknown). Here are all Russian Navy ship classes and individual ships fitted with UKSK:
Class/ship Displacement UKSK Oniks/ In Under On
(std./full) cells Otvet service constr. order
Buyan-M 850/ 949 8 ✕ 9 3 0
Karakurt 800/ 870 8 ? 3 13 0
Dagestan 1930/ 2200 8 ✕ 1 0 0
Gremyashchiy 1800/ 2430 8 ✓ 1 2 3
Derzkiy 2500/ 3400 4¹ ✓ 0 1 0
Burevestnik² 3830/ 4035 8 ✕ 3 0 0
Admiral Gorshkov 4500/ 5400 16/32³ ✓ 2 6 2
22350M 7000/ 8000 48 ✓ 0 0 0⁴
Admiral Nakhimov 23750/25860 80 ✓ 0 1⁵ 0
¹ UKSK is implemented as a replaceable module.
² Known as Admiral Grigorovich class in English.
³ Starting with the fifth ship.
⁴ Current plans are to lay down the first ship in 2024 and to build 12 of them, but no contract has been signed yet.
⁵ Undergoing modernization.
Posted by: S | Dec 23 2021 20:19 utc | 47
@Constantine (36) Kagan and his fellow neocon warmongers have staked their reputations and careers on the notion of the U.S. being the “exceptional” and “indispensable” nation as well as the world’s sole superpower. Facts to the contrary will not cause them to move one inch from that position. That much should be expected. What is truly surprising is how they remain in positions of power and influence despite having been consistently wrong about almost every matter of importance for the past twenty years. I attribute that durability to large infusions of cash into think tanks, corporate media and politicians pockets coming from the weapons industry.
Posted by: Rob | Dec 23 2021 20:56 utc | 48
Scott Ritter just posted a good summary of the situation in Consortium News. A new bit that I wasn't aware is the fact of the US plans on deploying a hypersonic labeled "Night Eagle" in Germany within the next two years. Frightening indeed!
https://consortiumnews.com/2021/12/23/2022-year-of-major-power-conflict-over-ukraine/
Posted by: Michael.j | Dec 23 2021 20:59 utc | 49
The world would be a far safer place if Nato were disbanded, and the Europeans stopped kowtowing to Washington on Russia and China. I say good for Russia in calling Washington's bluff, I guess its not the size of your army that counts now, but the effectiveness of it. At the USA's behest Nato bases and for that matter, US bases have almost encircled Russia and China, it was only a matter of time before one or both nations, Russia and China said enough is enough as Putin has done.
No sane person wants to see a full scale conflict between Nato and Russia, as a European I'm disappointed at European actions towards a fellow European country Russia, but the Russians have rightly decided to draw redline, what will the Military Industrial complex force Biden to do is I suppose the next question.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 23 2021 21:34 utc | 50
Posted by: S | Dec 23 2021 20:19 utc | 46
That's pretty cool. How did you create that table in HTML?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 23 2021 21:47 utc | 51
It will be interesting to see if Nordstream II gets the required licences to pump gas to Europe in the early part of next year, and will we see Ukrainian aggression towards Russia if it does, because Ukraine stands to lose billion in revenue if it does. Could this be the match that ignites a conflict in the region.
"Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmitry Kuleba took credit for delaying the project’s approval, saying, “Nord Stream 2 should have been operating and earning money a long time ago, but the fact that it still does not work and we are fighting against it is the result of our common endeavors.”
https://www.rt.com/russia/544201-germany-plan-nord-stream/
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 23 2021 21:49 utc | 52
Thanks b. Thanks also to CarlD @42. Martanyanov has written about the Russian A235 missile, with its ability to destroy US military Recon satellites. This is certainly a game changer. He further hints that the A235 could knock out weaponized military satellites that the US could launch into space orbit. Could it be that Russia has put an end to Americas wet dream of dominance via space weapons (Star Wars?)?
Posted by: Michael Crockett | Dec 23 2021 22:23 utc | 53
This link is broken:
". Here are their results (pg 57):"
Posted by: Roberto | Dec 23 2021 22:42 utc | 54
Russia does not need to put a foot in Donbass to stop any agression against Donbass.
Russia has the right to protect its citizens.
Posted by: Olivier | Dec 23 2021 22:56 utc | 55
Posted by: Rob | Dec 23 2021 20:56 utc | 47
You should also add extreme messianic chauvinism, ethno-supremacism (far more than old tropes of white supremacism) produced by later-day liberalism as factors for the continued eminence of these parasites. To put it simply, the western citizenry, especially in the Anglosphere, feels elevated to champion imaginary sublime causes such as human rights, democracy etc. despite the cost.
That the ideological factor is so important can be deduced by the ease with which former opponents of said neocons and establishment hacks join their cause. Amy Goodman was completely transformed into a promoter of imperial propaganda after Obama provided the necessary sugarcoating to US imperialism. The so-called conservatives who allegedly stood for "America First" and non-interventionism changed their tune when it was Dony the Pony that led the imperial offensive. Excuses may not be exactly the same, but the result is.
I could also add the greater part of the EU and Anglo-American "left" that somehow always finds this or that excuse to support the policies of these criminal scumbags and bash anti-imperialist activists and commentators as apologists, just like any craven liberal sycophants of the imperial establishment.
Posted by: Constantine | Dec 23 2021 23:07 utc | 56
@Tom_Q_Collins #50:
How did you create that table in HTML?
Use <pre></pre> tags and lots of spaces.
Posted by: S | Dec 23 2021 23:28 utc | 57
Stirrups, gunpowder, planes, nukes, all these were wonder-weapons in their time. heck, even the Nazi ones were legit, it's just that they came too late and too few (a regular feature of German advanced military tech in 1933-1945 era). What matters is if the new technologies upset the current military balance, like they benefitted conquistadores in the 16th century, to pick a notorious example.
CarlD - 42:
Honestly, destroying enemy satellites should be a last-resort action. If you just blast a couple, it might be fine, but targetting dozens at the same time runs the obvious risk of a chain reaction which would destroy hundreds more around, including your very own. This is basically MAD in space. And like MAD on Earth, it would make a mess of near-space for decades until we manage to clean it up.
Still, I fear that most Western leading fools can't deal with equals and only understand force. Biden and a few others might actually realize how bad their situation is and want to make some deal, losing a few pawns, but it's quite possible that a Russian show of force is necessary for most to understand where we are now. As others hypothesized already, such a show of force might be taking down the bulk of Ukrainian military, say all their key assets that sit less than 100 km from Donbass and Russian/Belarussian borders. As long as there's no Russian troops moving towards Donbass or further Ukraine, it would actually be an actual preemptive strike - and aggression arguably, but definitely not conquest or invasion, unlike what we too often see with the US side.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Dec 23 2021 23:34 utc | 58
“ The $150m was my mistake. It was for a different ship. $500 million (Rs4,000 crore) was the sales price mentioned in some Indian paper”
The confusing thing about having to put all numbers in $ equivalent is that it doesn’t confirm the actual currency used in the transaction.
For instance when Russia builds their ship - did they spend actual $? I would assume the ship builders were paid in Roubles and most internal to Russia costs.
If they imported any material or equipment to build that ship was it paid in $? Or Rouble or say in the currency of the supplying country?
The fact that the US government finds a way of jacking off double triple quadruple or many more for their equivalent ship makes absolutely no difference to the affordability.
After all as Fiat currency they just vote in a debt ceiling increase (few $ trillion just weeks ago) and use it to pay all suppliers and builders with that. Most of it going straight into the MIC owners pockets.
So Russia also does the same but it needs fewer $ equivalent Roubles to get their ship!
I am pretty sure that Russia has been shedding its $ holdings and will divest the rest as soon as the new economic/banking system goes worldwide on the back of the sanctions which the west/nato has backed themselves into the corner to use. They certainly aren’t going to fly in boots on the ground in deep midwinter to sit in the banderists trenches, waiting for a Russian invasion which will only come as a existential retaliation for the Russians and their ever more powerful band of allies around the world.
A hot war against an equally armed defender of their actual land? Yanks only fight when they overwhelming odds in their favour.
Russians fight because they have nothing if they lose.
They always have.
Why don’t the Great Gamers learn that?
Nukes?
Well that’s MAD innit?
Playing the crazy lunatic with one dangerous nuke is maybe able to gain some respect but if nuclear superpowers resort to that pre-hot line idiocy, well the majority of the human race, the ones with the best chance of surviving due to demographics, will some day centuries down the line send exploration parties to the destroyed citadels. Much like looking for the Atlantis that was unable to survive catastrophic annihilation.
It’s a possibility but I’d say I don’t think MAD will ever disappear regardless of any number of war technology developments.
Posted by: D.G. | Dec 23 2021 23:59 utc | 59
In a recent piece, John Helmer implies that forward deployment of US nuclear weapon systems to Ukraine and Black Sea has been “on the table” within the Biden administration, with support of faction led by State Department (re: Blinken and Nuland).
Posted by: jayc | Dec 24 2021 0:07 utc | 60
@Republicofscotland
Re: NS2 in 2022 ... I would be surprised at this point. The impact of the gas crunch seems bad, but not impossible. I.e. EU as a whole can adapt, in principle, by reducing industrial use. This would makes some essential industries uncompetitive globally, if it persisted. But once the market digests it, is can still be ignored for long enough to build even more LNG terminals (which however also locks EU into higher price structure). In the short term the core countries might try to "make the situation into someone else's problem" too. But that's speculating too much... we will see next year.
Posted by: ptb | Dec 24 2021 0:17 utc | 61
@Michael.I (48) I,too, was surprised by Scott Ritter’s revelation that the US would be deploying hypersonic missiles in Germany in 2022. FWIW, Andrei Martyanov is on record saying that such weaponry is still a long way off. Also, Russia is reported to have the capability to disrupt completely an enemy’s electronic communication over a vast area, thus making targeting difficult, if not impossible. In any event, Putin probably knows more about the US military’s capacities than Biden does.
Posted by: Rob | Dec 24 2021 1:12 utc | 62
Um, it’s hardly a super secret that some of the Burke class (USN) ships carry phased array radar beam weapons; these being separate than radar directed rockets, missiles, guns, etc. So that’s almost acknowledged tech in ships designed in the early 1980s. What other secrets the same USN ships may carry I don’t know. (USN subs have gamma ray coms systems, and some have subspace coms systems – that latter since before World War One.)
I’m sure the Russian navy ships have similar, and in some cases better, weapons. And I’m sure that I see no mention of such weapons in this blog.
If you can track it, and get a fix on it with lasers, beam weapons can take a hypersonic missile down easily. Tracking of course requires functioning radar and very fast computers.
Scott Ritter’s military technology and “preparedness” analysis is largely the perspective of a US Marine officer sans any significant security clearance.
Posted by: Jay | Dec 24 2021 2:33 utc | 63
Um, it’s hardly a super secret that some of the Burke class (USN) ships carry phased array radar beam weapons; these being separate than radar directed rockets, missiles, guns, etc. So that’s almost acknowledged tech in ships designed in the early 1980s. What other secrets the same USN ships may carry I don’t know. (USN subs have gamma ray coms systems, and some have subspace coms systems – that latter since before World War One.)
I’m sure the Russian navy ships have similar, and in some cases better, weapons. And I’m sure that I see no mention of such weapons in this blog.
If you can track it, and get a fix on it with lasers, beam weapons can take a hypersonic missile down easily. Tracking of course requires functioning radar and very fast computers.
Scott Ritter’s military technology and “preparedness” analysis is largely the perspective of a US Marine officer sans any significant security clearance.
Posted by: Jay | Dec 24 2021 2:33 utc | 64
This article is just more MIC propaganda to spend more money building ships and weapons system nobody needs. When you have DDGs whacking into merchant ships because the officer of the deck is clueless what to do in constant bearing decreasing range situation, you have crews that are like 14-year-olds who got daddy's keys to family sedan. And, not just one but two such collisions. Then I read articles recently about drone attacks off the coast of California. Did Navy shoot those illegally-flying drones out of the sky? Nope, they tracked them till they went off radar. Either they were self-destructed or retrieved by submarines. In either case, somebody got the intel they needs while Navy dithered. This would be bad enough except that drone flyovers of forbidden locales like ports and military bases are also a matter of record.
Conclusion: (1) Navy does not need more gizmos. It needs to train and learn seamanship - learn what its standing orders are - learn rules of engagement, and learn how to fight the ships Navy already has. (2) The entire DOD needs to junk the All-Volunteer-Force (AVF) concept and return to conscription. It clearly is not getting enough people with the temperament for warfare, the temperament and intuition of leadership, and lastly, courage. That explains the spike in PTSD from people returning from combat who never fired a shot. Back when I served, the slogan was: "Navy. It's not just a job. It's and adventure." Today it is clearly" "Navy. At least it's a job."
Posted by: Tomonthebeach | Dec 24 2021 3:12 utc | 65
Why the hype about the 'superiority' of hypersonic weapons? This is nonsense - the ultimate weapon is the ICBM. An ICBM travels from NY to Moscow in 1/2 hour. It would take a hypersonic missile 4 or 5 hours. All these secondary weapons are irrelevant, once the US and Russia start shooting at each other it's all over for both sides.
The most important thing to send a missile to a moving target is to follow that target and not be abused by its contermeasures. I'm not that sure the Russian are more advanced than USA on this point, at sea or in Europe. On the contrary: the "uss donald cook incident" has been debunked and it's a hoax. Russian have less radars and of older technology, less vehicules, less subs and they know it, please read their own military press. They don't have enough recognition drones and the awacs planes of both sides will be eliminated as first step of a conflict. But I fully agree with Tomonthebeach @64 : US Navy needs to seriously train their seamanship to be of some use.
The S-400 are a marvel but destroying 66% of the sended missiles is not enough to survive as a developped nation. Look at the planes: the Su-57 is yet to come in significant number and is 15 year late on the F-22. The Su-35S might be better than the current F-16, but not the Rafale witch has better sighting, and they have so few of them. OTAN air-air missiles are more than on par with the russian ones.
The T-14 Armata and T-90 tanks might be great but how will they survive against modern planes and depleted uranium munitions? Again, on military sites, the Russian acknowledged that their ATGM (kornet) are lagging on the US Javelin: about 20-30 years they say.
I do believe the russian solution will not come from military but from diplomacy. Not with the untrustable USA & C° but through a "warsaw pact"-like with some *stan of course but mostly with China. They already began with some success and they will continue.
Posted by: John V. Doe | Dec 24 2021 5:15 utc | 67
I think we should all chip in and hire some peeps to get rid of our problem
They are leaving us nowhere to retreat.
Posted by: ld | Dec 24 2021 6:13 utc | 68
To be bluntly honest, Americans are just begging to be on the receiving end of a world historical ass-stomping that they will never forget.
In fact, if the (dis)United States of America implodes and fractures into a dozen nations, Americans should be thankful, as this is not nearly as bad as what America could and indeed deserves to experience.
Which is, at long last, America gets a taste of its own medicine and reaps at home all the horror that it is guilty of inflicting abroad.
Karma comes calling by the name of Sarmat, Kinzhal, and Poseidon.
Posted by: ak74 | Dec 24 2021 6:38 utc | 69
bob sykes@20, Michael@48 & rob@61.
Maybe I haven't read enough of Scott Rittters stuff, but the linked article with the US hyper sonic deployment claim was eye opening to me, and he omits China from the discussion. I don't remember ever seeing much about China from Ritter.
Posted by: Dim sim | Dec 24 2021 6:56 utc | 70
Posted by: John V. Doe | Dec 24 2021 5:15 utc | 66
"I do believe the russian solution will not come from military but from diplomacy. Not with the untrustable USA & C° but through a "warsaw pact"-like with some *stan of course but mostly with China. They already began with some success and they will continue."
This is a laughable comment.
Russia has been attempting to do exactly this for the last two decades. USA are ignorant pieces of turd fungus and do NOT respect diplomacy in ANY form.
Russia would not be doing what they are doing now unless they believed that they could force the issue.
That they are doing so now and at the same time mentioning not only their own weaponry, but the current and expected development of the future means that they as far as they are concerned, they do indeed have the upper hand.
The alternative is that Russia as a sovereign nation is lost.
You should probably put down the USA exceptionalism Kool-aid and back away slowly.
Posted by: JustAnotherAussie | Dec 24 2021 8:06 utc | 71
@John V. Doe | Dec 24 2021 5:15 utc | 66
In case you think I missed your point of a 'Warsaw pact' like agreement with the 'stans', that would be a pointless exercise. The problem for Russia is the moving east of NATO and the weapon positioning.
Even with every 'stan' on side, that would never prevent or even slow down USA and her satraps from taking over Ukraine and placing nukes on Russia's border.
Posted by: JustAnotherAussie | Dec 24 2021 8:19 utc | 72
I think if you make bullshit and propaganda and chicanery of all sorts your main instruments of power, you are likely going to see a rapid decline in the more "kinetic" and "soft" aspects of your power as a consequence. Your military will rot and other people will learn to dislike you. And other things. Corruption has many consequences.
Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 24 2021 11:25 utc | 73
Not to worry folks, the puppet masters -- The Crown -- has the situation well in hand. The puppets will follow orders as they have for a very, very long time. Nation states? What nation states? Just sayin'.
Posted by: steve kelly | Dec 24 2021 13:06 utc | 74
Our Leaders have sold " US " out, America is no longer
Posted by: Al Hernandes | Dec 24 2021 20:04 utc | 75
@ Posted by: Tomonthebeach | Dec 24 2021 3:12 utc | 65
What about that submarine which had to surface and took weeks to stagger back home with a busted nose?
Did that crew get that by not being attentive motivated and brave?
Go ask them.
You can not dominate the Peoples of the World with self declared exceptional unilateral capabilities .
Not when they can at least match you and at best, give you a bloody nose for thinking you can.
It’s a lesson that needs learning by some who have been getting away with murder.
Posted by: D.G. | Dec 25 2021 0:55 utc | 76
Hypersonic weapons are still futuristic. There are to imminent battle grounds, and related exchanges of threats:
Ukraine
trade disruptions from sanctions and export limitations
Ukraine is Russia's home ground. Whatever forces are positioned near Ukraine, they are in Russia, I assume warm quarters according to Russian standards: do not forget your morning runs and washing with snow if possible. They are not in the situation of American troops massed in the Gulf. Logistic chains are simply re-routed, and my impression is that Russia did invest enough in transportation infrastructure. If NATO got an idea to send many troops to Ukraine preventatively, say, more than a thousand, and surely, more than a brigade, they cross Russian red line in a dramatically weaker position, and simply because of the distance from the arms depot and more tortured logistics, they cannot make the relative position of Ukraine stronger before the military debacle is completed. What remains in "mother of all sanctions".
Russian industry relies on many parts and components from the West, probably more than in the other direction. However, Russia has advantage in some critical commodities. We know about the natural gas and oil. Force majeure applied to natural gas to NATO alliance would be enormously and immediately disruptive, although there is a defence: apply force majeure to contacts between LNG producers in USA (and some allied countries?) and Asians, rerouting them to European NATO members. This defense is also quite disruptive.
I conjectured that there is another commodity weapon. Because of a hurricane in USA, energy disruption in China and current NG shortage, there is a big disruption in the production of nitrogen fertilizers, including urea that has many critical non-agricultural uses. Russian production was not affected by any of these. Moreover, at this time, both China and Russia suspended their urea exports, and USA got a shortage. This is what "everybody knows". But one can conjecture more.
First, Russia increased the internal consumption of natural gas quite a bit. Hm? One use could be to run urea factories around the clock, minimizing interruption and stockpile urea plus fertilizers. The prices on the world market quadrupled, so if you can use natural gas and coal to produce more of them, the profit is similar if not greater than if you sell natural gas and coal. But urea and fertilizers are easier to store than natural gas (although you have to be damn careful, like with storing gunpowder). If so, Russia enters New Year with a pile of fertilizer and urea for sale.
No country is more frantic about the shortage than India. With lacking fertilizers, first you get angry farmers. With expensive fertilizers, farmers are grumpy, so Indian government designated 3 billion dollars to help them buy fertilizers, but neither dollars nor rupees improve crops when you sprinkle them on fields -- you need the actual product. And with less food, it is not just farmers who are angry.
India surprised observers by a very warm summit with Russia. The cooperation in many fields was reaffirmed, extended and expanded, and the first thing to note is cooperation in armaments. There is a natural symbiosis between their arms industries, although in recent years Modi increased diversification and bough quite a few Western weapons. But only Russia can provide their top/near top models with much lower costs as the arms are produces in Russia AND India (using shared technology).
And about yesterday, Modi and Putin had another chat that mentioned importance of "strategic and privileged partnership". That could refer to technology sharing in arms industry, but also to export/import quotas. In particular, Russian could sell fertilizers as "exception" or "large quota", and give good credit condition, and perhaps good price.
In any case, the putative trade war of NATO vs Russia starts with both China and India not participating in sanctions, trading in their currencies, and perhaps solving a little problem that Russia has: how to store trade surplus. China does not have matching trade deficit, but India does.
Once you get three letters from BRICS, you can collect the rest. Elections in Brazil are coming, South African would surely like BRICS too. And with BRICS you get a domino effect, a huge list of countries that reject sanctions by NATO+ and EU. And from trade, the reduction of the Western influence could affect local conflicts, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Sahel etc.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 25 2021 1:37 utc | 77
It is said that 7 or 8 nukes will be sent to America, 4 or 5 will be deflected, 3 will land. Best prepare now. Air, water, food, shelter, fuel. SOURCE, Apparitions of the BVM. God bless all. Pray for peace.
Posted by: Jay bee | Dec 26 2021 18:18 utc | 78
Russia doubles down on hypersonic missile tests [Asia Times] “Russia adopting asymmetric hypersonic strategy to offset comparative conventional weaknesses vis-a-vis NATO . … While the US and NATO were first to adopt an offset strategy against the Soviet Union’s quantitative military superiority, it can be said that now the tables have been turned. … Russia’s hypersonic weapons program may be seen as part of a larger asymmetric offset strategy that aims to maintain the deterrent value of its nuclear arsenal, nullify NATO’s qualitative and quantitative superiority and address shortfalls in the country’s conventional force projection capabilities.”
https://asiatimes.com/2021/12/russia-doubles-down-on-hypersonic-missile-tests//
Posted by: Vander Resende | Dec 26 2021 21:33 utc | 79
Science is all about evidence and numbers
But what does that mean?
Any Marxist analysis ?
Pfizer expects the COVID-19 vaccine to be a major revenue contributor for years, and has forecast sales of $26 billion from the shot in 2021. Global spending on COVID-19 vaccines and booster shots could total $157 billion through 2025, according to US health data firm IQVIA Holdings.
Quotes from
https://m.jpost.com/health-science/pfizer-to-ask-fda-to-authorize-covid-vaccine-booster-673328
Posted by: ViteMaDose! | Dec 28 2021 23:34 utc | 80
BIONTECH SP ADS
+ 1500% since 2019
https://www.boursorama.com/cours/BNTX/
Posted by: ViteMaDose! | Dec 28 2021 23:43 utc | 81
- Russia having supersonic weapons/missiles ? Yeah, sure. Like the US has supersonic weapons as well, right ? I do understand that one "B" "doesn't like the US" but that doesn't mena that one should believe the russian propaganda as well.
- Johan Galtung: "the US Empire wil collapse in 2020": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfcoNlhxRow
Posted by: Willy2 | Dec 30 2021 8:44 utc | 82
The comments to this entry are closed.
Luckily Russian hypersonic weapons are just a desinformation campaign.
[Seriously, you know that a country is in deep trouble when it publicly comes up with Wunderwaffen.]
Posted by: m | Dec 23 2021 10:15 utc | 1