Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 07, 2021

Open Thread 2021-95

@all - I will be offline for the next three days for a preplanned medical procedure (nothing serious) that requires a short hospital stay.

Please behave.

- b.

Posted by b on December 7, 2021 at 13:00 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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India's first Chief of Defence Staff killed in helicopter(Russian Manufactured) Crash in same week Putin visited India and signed many Defence deals.

Coincidence?

Posted by: AB17 | Dec 9 2021 3:43 utc | 301

The world's greatest circus is in town.

In the so-called democracy summit, the world's top three genociders are gleefully scratching each others back.

FUK needs no introduction.
But with the clueless gringo mugs you cant be too sure, so..in a nutshell,
FUS with 30M dead civilians and 35M war refugees under its belt , is the indisputable champion genocider.

There are two others vying for the silver medal.
INdia with genocides in Kashmir, NE, and almost daily atrocities is one contender.

Just the other day, 14 civilians in Nagaland were shot in cold blood by the 'trigger happy' jawans,

Sorry pal its a mistake

case closed...
UNtil the next 'blunder'

Wash, rinse, cycle

Rings a bell ?
indian's gringo buddies have been doing it since time immemorial, Nam, Iraq, Yemen, Afghan...

Birds of the same feather.
cackling In the coalition of killing, er, sorry , summit of democrazies

hehehe

Posted by: denk | Dec 9 2021 3:48 utc | 302

To over-simplify something out loud:

Officially we are now 80% double-jabbed (aged over 16).
At this point, if you aren't, you are accepting loss of income and access to everything from hospitals to libraries.
1 in 5 people.

Posted by: Rae | Dec 9 2021 3:50 utc | 303

@301

I guess we're on the same wavelength - @187

Posted by: spudski | Dec 9 2021 3:50 utc | 304

@304 Top tier helicopter driven by expert pilot on a usual route.. what could go wrong?

Posted by: AB17 | Dec 9 2021 4:04 utc | 305

Indian Punchline's take on the Putin/Biden talks is also far from Saker's triumphalism:

https://www.indianpunchline.com/biden-white-house-spoofs-the-kremlin/

Is that a case of seeing the glass half full or empty?

The salami slicing tactics is actually pretty effective. Wonder if Putin considered slicing his own in Cuba or Venezuela.

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Dec 9 2021 4:18 utc | 306

@ 201 c1ue

“ A 3000 meter thick ice sheet still won't keep a large asteroid impact from affecting the bedrock.
Have you even done a back of the envelope estimate of the energy required?”

Ok, ive carried out this estimate and yes itwould. It would take a planetoid to put a sizable hole in the ice. Either compression or latent heat of melting will absorb the kinetic energy of the asteroid.

…as to what you fellers is fussin over, I don’t know nothing bout that

Posted by: Platero | Dec 9 2021 4:31 utc | 307

@256 Black bread

Thank you for that little compilation of the public claims by officials that the vaccine would end transmission of the virus, followed by the same officials claiming that it would not. Priceless (and downloaded for posterity).

~~

@273 Gulo - I am haunted by the connection we appear to have lost

I think you are correct that the human race has lost that connection, as a daily sense of being, but the connection itself is not lost. It is reclaimed continually by those who practice to reestablish it - I can only speak personally for Buddhist practice, but I believe also for Taoist practice, and Sufi, and Christian mystery school practice - and probably all of the mystical schools of the religions and doctrines.

I think the point is that the universe in its nature of being never separated itself from us, merely that we separated ourselves from it - and this was to our diminishing. And this connection can be reclaimed at every moment by any person - perhaps, one day, the whole race, again.

~~

@275 cirsium

I read it this way also, that Nuremberg is not explicitly cited by these aristocrats, who find it inconvenient, but who dare not call it out by name. Therefore, the task is to make the connection in the public mind. I think these initial reports are an attempt to make the connection but they are not enough - they are not well enough said, not illustrated fully enough, not clearly enough nailed to the door of these people as a stark proclamation of evil.

I don't mean to sound complaining, but we could use an intellectual (or several) who would put the words together to illustrate the nature of informed consent and the nature of the vaccine mandate and to show the evil inherent in the conflict between the two.

And I know it's been done already, in passing - in minor key, as it were - but it doesn't seem to exist on the surface, and it needs to be done again, to rise to the surface.

I think this is a task remaining yet. I look for it daily.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 9 2021 5:11 utc | 308

@RM 306
Bhadrakumar usually gets it right, but nobody's perfect and this time he got it wrong, putting Biden as the victor. Putin is pushing for words over weapons and Biden will have to go along or continue to be a loser.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 9 2021 5:13 utc | 309

Posted by: AB17 | 301
Coincidence. My understanding now after 2 decades-ish of geopolitical armchair observations…. There ain’t no coincidences.

@narendramodi
I am deeply anguished by the helicopter crash in Tamil Nadu in which we have lost Gen Bipin Rawat, his wife and other personnel of the Armed Forces.
They served India with utmost diligence. My thoughts are with the bereaved families.
2/ Gen Bipin Rawat was an outstanding soldier. A true patriot, he greatly contributed to modernising our armed forces and security apparatus. His insights and perspectives on strategic matters were exceptional. His passing away has saddened me deeply. Om Shanti.
3/ As India’s first CDS, Gen Rawat worked on diverse aspects relating to our armed forces including defence reforms. He brought with him a rich experience of serving in the Army. India will never forget his exceptional service.

The tweets prompted 16k comments. Daunted, I’ve read none.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 9 2021 5:20 utc | 310

@309 Don Bacon

Totally agree with your assessment. Bhadrakumar parses well, but from the wrong take, and gets the whole thing backwards.

~~

Reminds me of a party piece of back-and-forth repartee: "No, it's not fuck me. It's fuck you!"

That's what he didn't get.

Putin wasn't there to listen to ultimatums from the west. He was there to try one more time to persuade the west not to commit suicide - "death by Russia".

~~

Honestly, I believe the US hears this, deep in a place that has no commentator to communicate this to us.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 9 2021 5:26 utc | 311

Mark Mosby | Dec 8 2021 21:27 utc | 240 / spudski | Dec 8 2021 22:07 utc | 256 / Roger | Dec 8 2021 23:30 utc | 269

agree with all of you, but in particular rogers comment @ 269 which i am going to repeat by quoting him again -

"Canada is a lost cause with the comprador quisling elites now fully installed, and the media diligently following the Goebbels playbook. It seems that we will need a severe kick in the face to start to see reality."

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2021 5:26 utc | 312

@305

Yeah, per Confessions of an Economic Hit Man - Dag Hammarskjöld, Jaime Roldos Aguilera, Omar Torrijos?

Deja vu all over again?

Posted by: spudski | Dec 9 2021 5:56 utc | 313

12/8

John Lennon Murdered 41 Years Ago A Concept With Which To Measure Our Pain

https://fivegunswest.blogspot.com/2021/12/john-lennon-concept-with-which-to.html

Posted by: FiveGunsWest | Dec 9 2021 5:59 utc | 314

@ Don Bacon | Dec 9 2021 5:13 utc | 309.. i agree with you. it's a muddled article!

the major difference as i see it is russia is still hopeful the usa would see where this is headed and back off...meanwhile the usa still thinks of itself in a superior position while it continues cozying up to ukraine, loaded with threats - ''if russia doesn't do this or that'.... the usa bring the world closer to the brink in their typical manner, oblivious to their own actions which truly need to be sanctioned by the rest of the world..

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2021 6:06 utc | 315

@ spudski | Dec 9 2021 5:56 utc | 313.. thanks for that and your post @ 187.... bizarre coincidence, or not.. more likely not..

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2021 6:08 utc | 316

@Platero #307
The question is not what size an object has to be to punch through a 3 km ice sheet.
The question is what size object is needed to both smash said ice sheet enough to eject enormous chunks of ice, high enough in the air to fall and form the bays on the East Coast as well as not make an impression on the bedrock underneath.
I strongly suspect this is literally impossible. Ice is just not very strong compared to rock. A rain of snow and ice chunks, I can see.

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 6:36 utc | 317

@Piotr Berman | Dec 8 2021 22:34 utc | 260

I heard an explanation, before internet, so no link: stones are not as rigid as we think, they change shape, slowly, under pressure. If the stones were fitted together just enough to be stable on top of each other, then after few centuries they will fit exactly. The stone cutters of Incas did a decent job, so the stone walls they left behind show excellent fit after few hundred years. The stones in megaliths had many thousands of years to bend and achieve exact fit.

This is utter nonsense.

The Inca period lasted from 1438 to 1533 when the spanish arrived. It is claimed by conventional historians that places like Sacsayhuaman outside Cusco in Peru was built by the Incas, even though the Incas themselves denied it when asked by the Spanish. But even if you assume the Incas lied and did indeed build it it would mean this imaginary sagging of stone would take place in less than 100 years. Obviously, we have many cathedrals, fortifications and monuments in Europe that are much older but no such effect has ever been observed. For example, the Nidaros Cathedral in Trondheim was built from 1070 to 1300 AD, but no sagging like that has ever been observed there or anywhere else.

Even if this absurd idea is accepted it does not explain how the huge stones of 20+ tons each were moved from kilometers away and put in place.

I think absurdities like this reflects the inability of our culture to face the facts that we are not necessarily the ultimate masters of the universe, neither in relation to the present geopolitics nor towards history. So, in accordance with the theory of cognitive dissonance, facts that don't fit an established world view are dismissed out of hand in absurd ways in order to keep the narrative alive.


Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 7:04 utc | 318

@Black bread | Dec 8 2021 23:12 utc | 266

What a terrifying display of tyrannical fascism. It is frightening, and that is indeed the intention.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 7:22 utc | 319

@Black bread | Dec 8 2021 23:33 utc | 270

But this repetition of history, this time, increasingly evident, as a farce, will not hold much more, what some are doing will explode in their very faces sooner than later, I would wish not having to see it, but irremediably, as they do not, can not indeed, backpedal, there will be massive violence

It is very hard to say I hope you are right, but the alternative is much worse...

This is total breakdown of society. Anything can happen now.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 7:31 utc | 320

Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 7:04 utc | 318

"I think absurdities like this reflects the inability of our culture to face the facts that we are not necessarily the ultimate masters of the universe..."

Normally I disagree with almost everything you say. But in this, your reasoning is rock solid and easily provable. We as humans have a very egotistical view of past humans. It doesn't take long for that to show. The derogatory notion of 'boomers' is a classic example of how we look upon our forefathers with disregard at best.

The idea that rocks bend over time is also completely without evidence.

Posted by: JustAnotherAussie | Dec 9 2021 7:40 utc | 321

@karlof1 | Dec 9 2021 0:45 utc | 281

I want to send my kudos to those keeping us abreast of the Covid and vaccine scene, which is becoming a very ugly totalitarian exercise every bit as dangerous as what's happening between Russia and NATO. IMO, it's now clear that international BigPharma is led by Anti-Human Neoliberals of the most vile sort, and they and the governments under their control must be confronted before the situation deteriorates any further.

It is comforting to hear such sensible words from a respected person like yourself. I have felt rather lonely, but never one second doubted the reality of what we are facing. I fully support the call for confronting the forces that wage war against ordinary people in the most terrible way. It is now time for everybody to take a stand.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 7:42 utc | 322

As I go to bed I am watching all the US market futures slowly move up from quite negative positions to even....

Knowing how manipulated the markets it is looking like the US/Hollywood Democracy Shit Show that starts tomorrow will breach no negativity.....grin

Will we all be "entertained" by the event?

When does the music stop?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 9 2021 7:52 utc | 323

@David F | Dec 9 2021 1:11 utc | 283

Norweigan - You are an archeologist?

The bits about the asteroid impact in Michigan and the tidal pools in Carolina and Nebraska seem logical to me.


No, I am an engineer. The evidence we are looking at requires more than anthropology and matters that usually concern archeologists, it requires a practical understanding of technology, materials and engineering as such. It also has the aspect to it that scientific claims must be supported by practical experiment, and many of the claims that traditional archaeology put forward have no such support in reality.

As for the "tidal pools" they idea is that they are not that, but remnants of secondary impacts from chunks of ice ejected from the ice sheet as a result of the primary impact there.

As for not being convinced about the evidence, I would say that is the entirely correct position to take. Do not take anyone's claim at face value, but take the time to evaluate the evidence for yourself and then conclude whatever you find the evidence is telling you.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 7:56 utc | 324

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 9 2021 5:20 utc

Thanks for the remembrance of this hero. If he was murdered he is still a martyr and my thoughts go out to him and his family.

@narendramodi I am deeply anguished by the helicopter crash in Tamil Nadu in which we have lost Gen Bipin Rawat, his wife and other personnel of the Armed Forces. They served India with utmost diligence. My thoughts are with the bereaved families. 2/ Gen Bipin Rawat was an outstanding soldier. A true patriot, he greatly contributed to modernising our armed forces and security apparatus. His insights and perspectives on strategic matters were exceptional. His passing away has saddened me deeply. Om Shanti.

Salute

Posted by: jonku | Dec 9 2021 8:09 utc | 325

Juliana @ 267

Thanks so much. The Wings concert in St P reminds me of the time of optimism and in some ways innocence (naivety?) in Eastern Europe that followed the fall of the Wall.

Did you pick up that Ralph Fiennes has a performance of the Four Quartets in the Harold Pinter theatre in London at the moment? He devoted lockdown to learning them by heart, and I understand now finds them greater than Prufrock or the Wasteland.

Norwegian @267 and various. I personally enjoy informed speculation about our antediluvian ancestors and one has to be quite obtuse not to wonder at some of the artefacts that now baffle us (I recently visited Avebury Ring - the guide draws our attention to some of the astonishing acoustic properties of the stones and grouping of stones - the orthodoxies of archaeology just blank such things out). Ideas which confront the orthodoxies of the three false prophets of our time (Freud, Darwin and Marx) do infuriate their true believers (as evidenced on this thread).

Posted by: Montreal | Dec 9 2021 8:13 utc | 326

Elijah J. Magnier at twitter reposted this from AssalRad saying:

If you think the nuclear deal issue is too complicated, you are wrong. It is brilliantly explained here by @AssalRad in one tweet:

US: #Iran cant have nuclear weapons while we have 1000s & let Israel have them

Iran: ok

US: Iran must submit to inspections

Iran: ok

US: Iran must have limits on its program

Iran: ok

US: Iran must return to compliance

Iran: lift sanctions

US: Iran isn’t serious about deal

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 9 2021 8:20 utc | 327

@ Simplicius | Dec 8 2021 14:08 utc | 159

"Deep State hit on Indian MoD takes out him (and apparently his whole family!) in revenge for the S400 purchase and the 99 deals Putin/Modi signed in their"

More the pilot flew too low over the tree tops in tricky weather, which has caused crashes before: https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chopper-hit-tree-before-crashing-eyewitness/article37903088.ece

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 9 2021 8:37 utc | 328

@Platero | Dec 9 2021 4:31 utc | 307

Ok, ive carried out this estimate and yes itwould. It would take a planetoid to put a sizable hole in the ice. Either compression or latent heat of melting will absorb the kinetic energy of the asteroid.

Many thanks for factual feedback. Much appreciated.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 8:41 utc | 329

Nicaragua’s Evidence-Based Democracy Threatens U.S. Oppression Domestically and Abroad

Despite Washington’s best effort to derail Nicaragua’s electoral process through hybrid warfare, strong voter turnout resulted in a decisive victory by the Sandinista National Liberation Front (FSLN), and the reelection of President Daniel Ortega with 75.92% of the votes cast. Nicaragua’s non-partisan, independent Supreme Electoral Council (CSE) reported on Monday, November 8th that 65.23% of 4.4 million eligible voters (16 years and older) participated in Sunday’s election. Supporters attribute the FSLN’s success to its ability to ensure peace and achieve socioeconomic & political objectives that strengthen the wellbeing of the people of Nicaragua.

This markedly contrasts the widespread neglect and corruption endemic under Nicaragua’s U.S. supported neoliberal period from 1990-2007. It is precisely President Ortega and the Sandinista administration’s showing of evidence-based democracy that threatens the U.S., for Washington in comparison has become unabashedly authoritarian in its futile attempt to maintain its Hollywood-styled democratic image both domestically & abroad.

Meanwhile the fake democracies and their grubby tools are meeting somewhere.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 9 2021 8:46 utc | 330

@JustAnotherAussie | Dec 9 2021 7:40 utc | 321

Normally I disagree with almost everything you say. But in this, your reasoning is rock solid and easily provable. We as humans have a very egotistical view of past humans. It doesn't take long for that to show. The derogatory notion of 'boomers' is a classic example of how we look upon our forefathers with disregard at best.

The idea that rocks bend over time is also completely without evidence.


Thank you. I sincerely value a comment that starts with "Normally I disagree with almost everything you say", and then goes on to evaluate something I said without prejudice. That is the kind of dispassionate objectivity we need more of. And of course rocks don't bend over time :-)

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 8:54 utc | 331

@Montreal | Dec 9 2021 8:13 utc | 326

Ideas which confront the orthodoxies of the three false prophets of our time (Freud, Darwin and Marx) do infuriate their true believers (as evidenced on this thread).

Very well put! This is an excellent observation. Thank you.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 8:59 utc | 332

psychohistorian | Dec 8 2021 23:51 utc | 272

Thanks for the news (to me) about derivatives and seniority. It is even more likely that the scene has been set for a collapse of monetary systems and then the "ownership" on paper (in bits on servers) will be taken as the new dividing line between the "rich in-crowd" and the excluded "down-crowd".
*

Future topics? But not today as I have to do other things.
ie. 1) There is not enough collateral in the world to cover all the debts made.
2) Daisychained derivatives and other monetary games and the "ownership" underlying them.

****
John Cleary. @254

I too had learnt of this some time ago (EU law changes). I no longer have the link easily findeable, as it predates a computer breakdown! When I saved what remained, things got screwed by apple updates and while I may still have them, they have been moved/lost (?). (I kept a dedicated computer which wasn't connected to the net or a second newer computer. keeping an older form of operating system as a way to use older but still performing software, legally bought, but once retired, too expensive to replace => Adobe suites)

Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 9 2021 9:14 utc | 333

@c1ue 300
Agreed that "ignorance is bad wonderful thing", but why do you expose yours in public that embarrassingly?

To put this in perspective: all of Europe has roughly 10000 castles.

I counted >250 castles for Armenia only. The city of Stuttgart has in excess of 20, the state of Baden-Wuerttemberg in Germany alone has in excess of 500, the state of Rheinland-Pfalz some hundred knight's castles ("Ritterburgen") along the river Rhine and its influent streams, similarly southern part of Nordrhein-Westfalen state. I am fairly sure that the number of castles and fortified places in Germany alone (many in ruins, some just historical reference and archaeological proof) is in the range of 5000+ castles, maybe more. Other European countries not behind as the history of Europe is one of constant conflicts over 2 millennia.

Posted by: aquadraht | Dec 9 2021 9:26 utc | 334

Did the Sputnik V inventor just murder his own vaccine?: https://off-guardian.org/2021/12/07/did-the-sputnik-v-inventor-just-murder-his-own-vaccine/

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 9 2021 9:45 utc | 335

C1ue @ 250 & piotr 260

Ref the precision cutting of massive stone blocks. Cut stone in outdoor scenarios only deteriorate over time due to weathering (water erosion. You can witness evidence of this phenomena on the Sphynx at Giza - limestone is soluble in rainwater. In southern India near Mysore you can see the reddish igneous rocks there on the surface have become rounded off presumably from hundreds of millions of years of warm rainwater).

Igneous rocks (such as granite etc.) commonly used as a rock type for these massive blocks are crystalline in structure and therefore not plastic. To deform igneous rocks you need to subduct them and metamorphose them deep in the crust with elevated pressure and temperature over millions of years. Gneisses are examples of this.

So, to summarise, the precisely cut and complex arrangement of these blocks is nothing like contemporary masonry. For example compare the modern simple arrangement of bricks in a house wall or a cathedral wall whereupon the interlocking of blocks is simple. Compare that with the arrangement of blocks in the structures currently discussed and it's obvious that there is an unconformity in that the megalithic building is far more complex than modern building and this just does not seem feasible with the linear model comprising stone or copper hand tools and built by small groups of people living in caves.

Posted by: MiGao | Dec 9 2021 10:29 utc | 336

New German chancellor Scholz ( which is the second entering government with a face of few friends after the Austrian interior minister took over, it seems that the WEF has decided they need more bad faced at the top so that to try to scare the people futher...)states this ammount of people demonstratinf only in Munich yesterday under the cold is a "tiny vocal minority" and thus "there is no split in society"....

Well, this man should return to school to learn how to count, since with a 1/7 of this demonstrating in Belarus, his fomer government, Von Der Leyen, Borrell, the Atlantic Council and its NATO home, and all the US administration were claiming fro a peaceful transition of power in Belarus...

https://www.rt.com/news/542635-munich-corona-demo-vaccines/

If this alleged "socialdemocrat" continues tghis pace he will run the same fate as the rest impossing the same fascistic measures in Europe.

Btw, that so called "socialdemocracy" started this farce for all related to democracy and socialism since the Suresnes Congress. This is your classical neoliberal,as they sold the working masses at that point.

Stop calling these impostors "the left", they are not, these are lackeys of atlanticism and the decaying Pax Americana and its "shock doctrine", "color revolutions", "military coups", "secret detention facilities", "torture and misstreatment", "full lack of respect for human life", "organized international terror", "organized international drug trafficking", "organized looting and plundering of countries", "perpetual war", and on, and on.

This is their legacy.

Posted by: Black bread | Dec 9 2021 11:12 utc | 337

This is getting ridiculous but western media keep spreading disinformation directly from the CIA about alleged invasion plots!
Now it is Taiwan that will be invaded in any second:

China ‘likely’ preparing Taiwan invasion – Pentagon
https://www.rt.com/usa/542624-pentagon-china-taiwan-defenses/

Posted by: Zanon | Dec 9 2021 11:31 utc | 338

I am seeing some of yo uremeber the anniversary of the killing of John Lennon.

Well, some other anniversaries took places these past days...Precisely, as we talk about the left, these are anniversaries of killings of people of the real left, now dsibanded, because they were real, is that they were killed, they had not patrons Soros like...

On December 3, 1944, thousands of Greeks took to the streets of Athens to cheer on the partisans who had contributed to the Nazi defeat. The British Army fired at the protesters from Parliament, killing 28. Syntagma Square was a great pool of blood

https://twitter.com/Anti_otan1984/status/1468498074603511808

Athens 1944: Britain's Shameful Secret

Included as a summary in the articel above...

Calendar: the battle between the left and the right

Late summer 1944 German troops withdraw from most of Greece, which is taken over by local partisan groups. Most are members of ELAS, the armed wing of the National Liberation Front, EAM, of which the Communist Party, KKE, is a part.

October 1944 Allied forces, under the command of General Ronald Scobie, enter Athens, the last area still occupied by the Germans, on October 13. Georgios Papandreou returns from exile together with the Greek government.

December 2, 1944 Instead of integrating ELAS into the new army, Papandreou and Scobie demand the disarmament of all guerrilla forces. Six members of the new cabinet resign in protest.

December 3, 1944 Violence in Athens after 200,000 people demonstrated against those demands. There are more than 28 protesters killed and hundreds injured. The Dekemvriana begins, which will last 37 days. On December 5, martial law is declared.

January / February 1945 General Scobie accepts a ceasefire in exchange for the withdrawal of ELAS. In February, all parties sign the Varkiza treaty. ELAS troops leave Athens along with 15,000 prisoners.

1945/1946 Far-right gangs kill more than 1,100 civilians, sparking civil war when government forces begin to fight the new Greek Democratic Army (DSE), consisting mainly of former ELAS soldiers.

1948-1949 The DSE suffers a catastrophic defeat in the summer of 1948, with a total of 20,000 casualties. In July 1949, Tito closed the Yugoslav border, denying the DSE asylum. On October 16, 1949, the ceasefire was signed.

April 21, 1967 Far-right forces seize power through a coup. The Junta remained in power until 1974. Communist veterans who had fled abroad had to wait until 1982 to be able to return to Greece.

Posted by: Black bread | Dec 9 2021 11:41 utc | 339

Taiwan first country recognizing more deaths by vaccine than by Covid-19...

https://twitter.com/Ladyadema/status/1468268671650996234

Since Taiwan is considered in this Twitt as a country, I guess nobody will suspect this is anti-vaxxers "conspiracy theories"...

Posted by: Black bread | Dec 9 2021 11:57 utc | 340

@MiGao | Dec 9 2021 10:29 utc | 336

Great comment, I agree completely!

It was the Sphinx enclosure that triggered the debate about the age of these structures. The water erosion in the enclosure showed signs of running water over a long period, but the Sphinx & enclosure had been under sand for a very long time and it hasn't rained much there the last ~10 000 years...

The initial argument against dating the Giza structures to well before the dynastic eguptians was that no other structure with such an ange existed. That changed with Göbekli Tepe in southern Turkey being discovered soon after and found to be ~12 000 years old by the german Klaus Schmidt.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 12:20 utc | 341

@AB17 | Dec 9 2021 3:43 utc | 301

India's first Chief of Defence Staff killed in helicopter(Russian Manufactured) Crash in same week Putin visited India and signed many Defence deals.

Coincidence?


I suspect not. Then add this to the mix:

Russia, India abandon US dollar in mutual settlements
Alexander Mikheev, Director General of Russia's state arms exporter, Rosoboronexport, announced, on Tuesday, that Russia and India have abandoned the use of the US dollar in mutual settlements, with all payments made in rubles and rupees.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 12:46 utc | 342

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 7:04 utc | 318

Re: " Sacsayhuaman outside Cusco in Peru"... you're postings are way above me but fascinating. I visited Sacsayhuaman in October, 1984; felt like entering a whole different world where I really, really could not believe my eyes. I touched the stones, walked around in a daze. (full disclosure, high altitude and coca tea might have been contributing factors). Cuzco itself is a marvel as the same kind of massive stones perfectly form the base of huge buildings constructed on top of them by native slaves directed by Spaniards in the 1500s.
bottom line, someone put those stones there.
thanks Norwegian

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 9 2021 13:47 utc | 343

Posted by: MiGao | Dec 9 2021 10:29 utc | 336
"So, to summarise, the precisely cut and complex arrangement of these blocks is nothing like contemporary masonry."
The young man who took us around the Cuzco, Peru, area was a friend of a friend, studying the undergrad program in something like "Geology/tourism", kindof weird and unique but Peru understood that their culture was rich to say the least and also was trying to develop tourism around it. Anyway, this man did repeat the common speculation that Incas used some kind of acid or plant recipe to eat away at the stones and cut or weaken it but the crazy thing is that these stones are all different shapes, no mortar, and they have stayed in their position for a long time. perfect fits. 100%. My memory is that many of the bases were not plumb, rather pitched like a pyramid, making them much more stable.

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 9 2021 14:01 utc | 344

Grieved #308

"It is reclaimed continually by those who practice to reestablish it - I can only speak personally for Buddhist practice, but I believe also for Taoist practice, and Sufi, and Christian mystery school practice - and probably all of the mystical schools of the religions and doctrines."

Perhaps. Do you know any western "healers" who can meaningfully trance-dance, fly to the upper or lower worlds, convene with their animal, plant, stone, or ancestor familiars, and return with the diagnosis and cure for a patient?

Posted by: Gulo | Dec 9 2021 14:06 utc | 345

Iran, JCPOA
I just noticed the Saker posted Aaron Mate's interview with Mohammad Marandi which I watched last night on you tube. I posted Richard Medhurst's interview of him last week and they're similar but I highly recommend at least one to get a review on JCPOA history and you will likely learn a few details--I did. Marandi's tone seems similar to that of Russia (Lavrov, Zakharova, Putin, Shoigu): they have lived through the hard times the pain, threats to their lives and countries, and they are speaking truth to power in a much more forceful, powerful posture than before. Add China and it's obvious that the Empire is collapsing.
Anyway, I listen to them.

https://thesaker.is/prof-mohammad-marandi-interviewed-by-aaron-mate-jpcoa/

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 9 2021 14:13 utc | 346

So, did you finish watching the presentation @274?

@Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 0:00 utc | 274

Get your friend/relative/associate that is in favor of vaccine mandates
to watch it.

You will be glad that *you* watched it.
Very glad.

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 14:15 utc | 347

Personal story
Rural Midwest U.S.A
Yesterday a neighbor, retired teacher/asst. principal, came over to help my wife and I inoculate Shiitake logs. She and my wife are both battling Trump derangement syndrome so they were venting a bit but we got a lot of work done because they are both hard workers and also capable of talking and inoculating.
Anyway, she got a call from her brother: long conversation. When she hung up she asked me "What do you know about ivermectin?" Turns out, her 60 year old "wacko" brother has covid, wanted to die because he felt really bad, then got some ivermectin pills and is a few days into taking them, feeling much better. He's going to stay with ivermectin.
How do you argue with that?

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 9 2021 14:21 utc | 348

ivermectin, neighbor

I'll keep checking with her on her brother's status.

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 9 2021 14:23 utc | 349

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 9 2021 14:01 utc | 344

I visited Mitla in Oaxaca, México, the place is known for the intricate geometrical patterns of the temples walls, I was very lucky to start a conversation with a gentleman that was working there and he explained to me that the construction's longevity is due to the fact that in spite of the patterns looking very geometrical and repetitive if one pays close attention to the stones it is easy to realize that the cutting and fitting is irregular, no two stones are the same even though the general appearance is of perfect geometrical patterns. The precision of inexactitude, a concept worth pondering since it's all around us in nature.

Posted by: Paco | Dec 9 2021 14:29 utc | 350

there is an unconformity in that the megalithic building is far more complex than modern building and this just does not seem feasible with the linear model comprising stone or copper hand tools and built by small groups of people living in caves.

Posted by: MiGao | Dec 9 2021 10:29 utc | 336

Neolithic people were as intelligent as we are, and techniques they used to make smaller tools were applicable to large stones. E.g. you knock over a stone with another stone and you separate a flake. You need practice to control the result and good 3D visualization. And there are many clever techniques to achieve good fit. I suspect that early farmers lived in huts, as did farmers 200-100 years ago. Agriculture allows to store food and to work seasonally, giving communities of modest size time to pursue other activities off season.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 9 2021 14:30 utc | 351

@migueljose | Dec 9 2021 13:47 utc | 343

I visited Sacsayhuaman in October, 1984; felt like entering a whole different world where I really, really could not believe my eyes. I touched the stones, walked around in a daze. (full disclosure, high altitude and coca tea might have been contributing factors).

Oh how I envy you the in-person visit to Sacsayhuaman! That is for sure among the top incredible megalithic sites in the world. I have only seen it on video, being there must be like you describe.

Cuzco itself is a marvel as the same kind of massive stones perfectly form the base of huge buildings constructed on top of them by native slaves directed by Spaniards in the 1500s.
bottom line, someone put those stones there.
thanks Norwegian

Yes, I know. You have the famous Video: Inca Roca Wall there, with at least 3 styles of construction all in one place: Megalithic, Inca and Spanish. As we all can see, the oldest is the most advanced and refined. Ref. the "scoup marks" shown & mentioned: You find similar "scoup marks" in Egypt and Easter Island.


Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 14:35 utc | 352

@Posted by: migueljose | Dec 9 2021 14:21 utc | 348

"She and my wife are both battling Trump derangement syndrome"

Someone had a wise observation, "vaccination is a proxy for party loyalty".

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 14:41 utc | 353

IVM still forbidden in Europe. People who order it never receive it since it is seized by the postal services (enjoy your 'privacy', the same one which the EU advocates to forbid temperature and speed-test screenings in airports, stations, museums or universities).
Coming soon (1 Feb.) it won't be allowed to any EU citizen to travel within the EU or outside if he did not get his booster shot. Thanks to the huge JandJ booster trial in SA and to BoJo letting Delta spreads all over for months.

Posted by: Julie | Dec 9 2021 14:58 utc | 354

@Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 14:35 utc | 352

Watched your link to the Sacsayhuaman video (part 1).

Thx!

Interesting

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 15:09 utc | 355

@MiGao #336
You are assuming a completely incorrect time scale.
1) The Sphinx's nose was broken off by humans, not weathering
2) Rocks of any type - whether granite or limestone - will degrade from atmospheric conditions. Rain is one, but so is: humidity + freezing, sandstorms, oxidation, etc etc.

Furthermore, in the absence of metal tools, there is a time tested (and time consuming) method of shaping rock: rubbing one against the other.

So no, the idea that only "advanced civilizations" could form rock is idiotic. All you need is the desire and the time.

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 15:11 utc | 356

@aquadraht #334
You try and try, but ultimately fail.
Your counting of castles by hand is nice but:
1) Doesn't include all of Europe
2) Assumes a bunch of shit which is wrong such as the only castles that count are ones that are still standing.

If you want to complain, complain to this site: Cuddly nest says 10,000 to 25,000 castles in Europe

Note the above site only refers to 10,000 Medieval castles but 25,000 in Germany alone. I used the 10,000 number since medieval were likely stone whereas the oldest castles are rammed earth or wood.

In any case, the reality is that Europe was "castellated" - meaning literally festooned with castles because those were one of the basis behind feudalism. Between the radius which a castle lord could directly control plus centuries of castellation - 10K or 25K doesn't seem outlandish at all, nor were all the castles the Disney-like monstrosities that are eponymous with the term today.

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 15:24 utc | 357

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 15:11 utc | 356
"Furthermore, in the absence of metal tools, there is a time tested (and time consuming) method of shaping rock: rubbing one against the other.

So no, the idea that only "advanced civilizations" could form rock is idiotic. All you need is the desire and the time."

Ok... I can't say how those stones were moved, cut and placed around Cuzco, Peru. I just know what I saw was almost unbelievable but I saw lots of walls that I could not figure out how they would have been built using today's equipment. It looked "advanced" to me but I'm approximately 30% hillbilly so maybe I missed something.

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 9 2021 15:28 utc | 358

Incas used some kind of acid or plant recipe to eat away at the stones and cut or weaken it but the crazy thing is that these stones are all different shapes, no mortar
Posted by: migueljose | Dec 9 2021 14:01 utc | 344

I think there was research that found evidence of a chemical reaction being used to bond the stones, particularly the limestone. That's not at all difficult to do, and is like the concept of cement. That chemical reaction creates "stone" in the gap, just like cement between the stones of concrete, so any small gaps between the stones will be eliminated. If I vaguely recall correctly, similar reactions were used with the Egyptian pyramids.

There are also theories concerning the cutting of the stones that involved some kind of abrasive movement in between two stones, which thereby adopt ever closer-fitting shapes, explaining the close-fitting irregular shapes; I don't recall exactly how that worked unfortunately.

As far as I am aware the majority of these megalithic stones are limestone, sandstone, or other relatively soft stones not igneous rock.

Posted by: BM | Dec 9 2021 15:28 utc | 359

@Norwegian #318
Just because you lack imagination doesn't mean that something can't be done.
The Pyramids were built without the wheel or draft animals - why again couldn't Cuzco be built the same way?
Furthermore, even a back of the envelope estimation shows that such is eminently possible.
While the Egyptians and South American Indians didn't have the wheel, they definitely had logs which are basically round.
A person can push 1500 lbs on a wheeled cart, let's divide that by 3 for the relative inefficiency of a log = 500 lbs.
So 20 tons on rollers would need only 80 modern people, maybe 120 shorter, lighter but enormously stronger and more fit ancient humans.
Doesn't seem the least bit outlandish.
You don't even need a lot more to get the block on rollers to start with because you excavate under said rock to emplace the rollers underneath. After all, if you're cutting the other sides, nothing stops you from cutting under as well.
Sure, this is slow. But cutting a block of stone without metal tools or power machinery is slow. So what?
Your modern sensibilities do not reflect how past generations of people handled time.
Medieval churches, for example, were often multi-generation construction projects.
Notre Dame took 182 years to complete.
The Great pyramid took only 20 years, but required 20,000 people.
Cuzco could have taken 20 years or 200 or more - impossible to tell at this temporal remove, but the capability to construct is not in question - only the reason why and the will to do so.

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 15:39 utc | 360

Matt Stoller on cryptocurrencies

Stoller on cryptocurrencies

He's got the basics right, as is often the case and adds an interesting viewpoint: that cryptocurrencies are thriving due to the failures of Western societies.

I think there is definitely some truth to that, for the core crypto-diehards. However, the prominence of crypto/NFT/whatever today is not a function of the die-hards, but of the scammers/pump and dumpers/banksters.

DeFi is nothing more than a veiled method to evade regulation.

Cryptocurrencies and NFTs are nothing more than a way to create securitised instruments but without all of the regulation which existing securitised instruments are burdened with. I attended a crypto platform event yesterday - a platform for NFTs. Lots of yakety about building and creating and #wagmi, but the core of the platform was lending, fractionalization and other derivatives.

Ironically, I do see blockchain as solving one issue w/ regard to art: art forgeries. It is estimated that 10% to 20% of the entire art market is forgeries; the blockchain behind NFTs would remove that issue for digital assets. Of course, the scam is the assumption that said digital assets are "art" to start with.

Ultimately only time will tell if I am being overly cynical here - art is worth what people are willing to pay for it. If NFTs still hold significant value and are traded over time, after this epic bubble bursts, then clearly it is "art".

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 15:48 utc | 361

@357 c1ue
Hm

You try and try, but ultimately fail.

Do I?

As I wrote in 334:

I am fairly sure that the number of castles and fortified places in Germany alone (many in ruins, some just historical reference and archaeological proof) is in the range of 5000+ castles, maybe more.

It was you who boldly asserted:

To put this in perspective: all of Europe has roughly 10000 castles.

Now you cite a source which states

The European country with the most castles, is Germany, with over 25,000.

And are outrageous enough not to admit that you wrote nonsense, or erred in an order of magnitude.

I always tended to take you somewhat serious, though I felt some mild disgust of your self-righteousness and arrogance. Looks I was wrong, and have to take you as the fool you are.

Posted by: aquadraht | Dec 9 2021 15:56 utc | 362

@migueljose #358
One major reason why I call bullshit on these "ancient civilization must have done it" views is because I have seen European rock fences. Do a Google search of "Europe rock fence" to see pics.

These are walls created from rocks pulled out of farmer's fields; due to weather and other natural processes, rocks move up and down in the soil layers. Farmers, even in fields farmed by the same family for multiple generations, have to pull these out as they interfere with the operation of plows. The most common method is to then put them on said farmer's border with someone else's field.

If you've ever look at a number of these, you might be amazed at how stable and well fitted they are. No, they're not mortared or super close fitting, but given that we know for a fact that they were created by some farmer dumping rocks while in the middle of plowing, are pretty damn impressive nonetheless.

It doesn't seem the least bit incredible or impossible for me to see a determined group of people - motivated by religion or some such - to expend enormous time, energy and imagination to build bigger and better.

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 15:57 utc | 363

@BM | Dec 9 2021 15:28 utc | 359

As far as I am aware the majority of these megalithic stones are limestone, sandstone, or other relatively soft stones not igneous rock.

There are many examples of igneous rocks in megalithic structures. For example, the Corricancha in Cusco, Peru is built from tight fitting basalt and andesite blocks, both igneous. The so called "King's Chamber" in the great pyramid of Giza (in itself built from limestone) in Egypt is made from huge granite blocks retrieved from Aswan, 700 km to the south. The Giza pyramids were originally covered in granite on the outside, some of which you can still see e.g. on the smaller Menkaure pyramid. The "Valley Temple" in front (right) of the Sphinx at Giza is made of very large limestone and granite blocks. The incredible Barabar Caves in India are carved entirely out of granite. The enigmatic Masuda-no-iwafune rock in Japan is carved from granite.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 16:15 utc | 364

To james @ 312

There is a gathering at the legislature in Victoria this afternoon where you will find a number of people who are starting to fight back.

https://commonground.ca/75th-anniversary-of-nuremberg-doctors-trial-2/

The centre of attention will be Brian Peckford, the only remaining repatriator of the constitution.

Posted by: Coaster43 | Dec 9 2021 16:25 utc | 365

stockman explains, must read all for yourself
https://original.antiwar.com/David_Stockman/2021/12/08/sleepy-joe-cradles-the-dead-hand-of-the-soviet-presidium/

Posted by: downtownhaiku | Dec 9 2021 16:28 utc | 366

Thanks to Norwegian to bring up the speculations on what may have existed and was wiped out by the Younger Dryas event 13000 yrs ago.

I came across Graham Hancock's excellent articles on YD and he makes a very sound case for YD and its earth shattering impact, and certainly the magnitude, and effect over the following millenia, was an extinction level event for a huge swath of the world. Whatever civilizations there were have to have been affected and one can argue as to HOW advanced they were.

However, if you have ever been in the Cusco Cathedral looking at the stone formations of the Kiswarcancha, and compared the sloppy stonework of the Cathedral with the original temple walls, it is quickly apparent one is seeing 17th masonery and comparing it with something that seems to belong in the 22nd century. It is a mindnumbing experience to see the precision with which the ancient ruins were built. And as Norwegian points out, there are a *LOT* of similar anomalies in the world, including relatively close by at the Pumapunku ruins at Tiwanaku.

I understand why there is so much resistance to the possibility that everything we think we know is way off. The dissonance of the cognates must be overwhelming.

Posted by: Simplicius | Dec 9 2021 16:33 utc | 367

Gulo @ 273 --thoughtful post, thank you! I haven't commented on this subject, not being well-versed in paleo pre-history as we investigate that, but indeed our 'civilization' is more and more apparent as just a fingernail clipping compared to the deeper connections with nature that even very recently in 'recorded' time still have existed in parts of the world. That is so where I live now, and it was even more so in my grandmother's time.

I do believe those connections are not lost. The land still influences our cultures more deeply than we are aware of. We certainly have more distractions in 'modern' times, but we can choose to avoid them, to shut them out. I joked before, but I agree with those who respect ancient ways. People have been people longer than we suppose, I think!

Posted by: juliania | Dec 9 2021 16:56 utc | 368

b - thank you for the "open thread"; all the best to you and good recovery!

@norwegian #many
Thank you for your eye-opening contributions, particularly conferring to Antonio Zamora's relating the Carolina Bays with the Younger Dryas Event. As for a missing impact in the bedrock: It seems there IS a bedrock impact structure at the Saginaw Bay, indicated by Zamora as the origin of the Carolina Bays. Although, here, the impact was dated as 786ky ago. Not sure if they are correct with the dating.
IF it's the 12.9ky impact: There seem to have indeed been multiple fragments of this impactor: One of them has just recently been identified, having exploded over Syria.
Thanks again; lots to discover.

Posted by: JWW | Dec 9 2021 17:06 utc | 369

I honestly don't understand why some folks are so opposed to the idea of previous advanced civilizations. I am not saying they did or didn't exist, but I am certainly open to the possibility.

Previous advanced civilizations seem a whole lot more likely than someone rubbing two rocks together to make the precise shapes/fits that are evident, literally, all over the world, especially when many of those megaliths are made of incredibly hard stone.

Posted by: David F | Dec 9 2021 17:10 utc | 370

@ Coaster43 | Dec 9 2021 16:25 utc | 365.... i'm in nanaimo.. they have had some push back here as well... brian peckford is from newfoundland, but retired to parksville, which is just up the road... he has been an ongoing spokesperson for pushing back as well...

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2021 17:12 utc | 371

https://youtu.be/F28CvNWENa8?t=57

soul healing music by Maynard James Keenan
Enjoy

Posted by: ld | Dec 9 2021 17:22 utc | 372

@Simplicius | Dec 9 2021 16:33 utc | 367

Agreed, thanks! And indeed, right across the border to Bolivia you find Puma Punku/Tiwanaku with some of the most enigmatic stones on earth, the famous H-blocks at Puma Punku for example. There are also more sites in Bolivia.

@JWW | Dec 9 2021 17:06 utc | 369

Very interesting, that possible bedrock impact at Saginaw Bay is worth some consideration. We shall see. I will read your link with great interest, thanks a lot! Yes, the Syria site (Abu Hureyra) is known, I think it is under water now (Lake Assad).

And, regarding multiple fragments, we have also the possibility that the recently discovered Hiawatha Crater (north Greenland) could perhaps be related to the YD event.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2021 17:32 utc | 373

Advanced civilization music

https://youtu.be/A8HMCfXmVc0

Enjoy

Posted by: john | Dec 9 2021 17:34 utc | 374

BM @ 359

Igneous rocks are far superior building stones compared to sedimentary rocks due to hardness, being insoluble in rainwater, homogenous structure, etc.

Sedimentary building rocks such as limestone and sandstone are problematic and the only reason why they are used is that they are easy to cut due to being soft. Calcium carbonate is far softer than silica - this aspect is mirrored in cement technology in that the older lime based cements are far softer and less capable of a building material than more modern silicate based cements.

Silica is far harder than calcium carbonate and rocks based on this chemistry are better building materials, but far harder to work.

The Sphyx being made from limestone is a good example of what happens to this rock when rained on for a long time. The face of the Sphyx appears to have been cut at a later time than the body as it is much less weathered. Had the Sphyx been made from igneous rock, it would be expected to retain its form such that today it would appear as it was built.

So to summarise, sedimentary rocks are only used for building because they are easy to cut. The majority of megalithic structures are made from igneous rock and this aspect cannot be ignored.

Posted by: MiGao | Dec 9 2021 17:36 utc | 375

“ Since when does Marxism and Socialism lie in bed with Corporations?

Can anyone shed light on this weird dichotomy ?

Posted by: K | Dec 8 2021 20:36 utc | 220”

A question I have been answering regularly on boards. The answer is :

Since they were conceived. As two cheeks of the same arse of The Owners of Money.

There is no Left - Right. There is only Top - Below. Slave Owners & Slaves.

That is the whole of history. The Top is attempting another paradigm shift as they have through the ages so that We don’t grab their ankles and bring them down from their temples in their havens.

The Chinese and Russians and their new human empire are busy raising their and the worlds poorest and will not be stopped.

The Old Money Empire is dead.

Posted by: D.G. | Dec 9 2021 17:36 utc | 376

@Posted by: downtownhaiku | Dec 9 2021 16:28 utc | 366

That about sums it up.

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 17:53 utc | 377

@ ld | Dec 9 2021 17:22 utc | 372... the footage for the video looked like here on vancouver island.. it turns out the track is from into the wild and has footage from alaska and a few other places... thanks for sharing..

@ john | Dec 9 2021 17:34 utc | 374... i don't know all of franks music... who is the singer on that track? looking at the credits - george duke.. sounds like similar vintage to the grand wazoo and headed in that direction.. i don't the chronological order of franks albums.. that's a great track john..

you might enjoy this album which was released around the same time - george duke - feel album

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2021 18:04 utc | 378

Admittedly I haven't been able to read all the contents, but I'm surprised there is no discussion of the new book, "The Real Anthony Fauci." As one who had trusted the CDC and Fauci, I am blown away by the revelations of corruption. I have had two shots and the booster but probably will not get another shot unless I need it to go to Israel in November.

Posted by: Carolyn | Dec 9 2021 18:06 utc | 379

Are links to Rumble block on MoA?

https://rumble.com/vq411l-cryptocurrency-and-blockchain-liberation-or-hoax-interview-with-a-left-wing.html

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 18:20 utc | 380

Funny that tomorrow the 10th is International Human Rights Day while Biden holds his Inhumane forum. In Russia, the government traditionally holds its Meeting of the Council for the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights in association with its observance for what ought to be obvious reasons for any objective observer. The linked transcript is in Russian because it's more complete while the English transcript doesn't get very far into the meat of the discussion, which is very complex and filled with many issues one doesn't expect to find in a discussion under this topic. I'll need to remember to revisit the transcript at day's end to see what else is added. It's my hope that barflies take a moment to at least read some of the content being discussed as IMO it goes far beyond what any other Western nation discusses on the vast number of issues investigated by the Council. One example is the discussion on Covid and vaccination:

"The coronavirus epidemic and human rights. Now, in particular, a bill on the use of QR codes in public places and on transport is being discussed. Restrictions on rights and freedoms in this painful issue for citizens should be minimized, but the fight against the epidemic should not be hindered.

"The Board welcomed the launch of the vaccination campaign. Back in January, we held a special press conference, to which we invited the creators of the Sputnik V vaccine.

"Who will receive QR codes under the bill? Vaccinated, ill - this is understandable. But in life there are many different situations and circumstances: there are many people who are contraindicated vaccination for health reasons. Or an example: I have a friend who got sick more than a year ago, but he still has a high level of antibodies. Does he need a vaccination?

"There are people who have had an infection, but have not turned to doctors. Someone, due to personal certain irresponsibility, and someone, being ill, at the call of specialists – and such calls were made – did not want to overload the health care system during the peaks of the epidemic. We don't have statistics, but it seems that there are millions of such people, and they have antibodies.

"Probably, it would be correct in the case of a high antibody titer, the same as after vaccination, to give these people a code as sick.

"It is also necessary to provide for the possibility of visiting public places with a negative PCR test. To do this, it is necessary to strengthen the system of operational and, I believe, free testing. In addition, not everyone has smartphones – it should be possible to get the usual paper certificate of vaccination or illness. Colleague Irina Borovova – she represents the patient community – is ready to supplement theses."

As you read, the discussion is very sensible and void of any hysteria. I hope there's additional discussion later in the transcript because IMO all of us barflies are curious to see what Russia does. I'll provide one more, very long, example that IMO is one which ought to have a very high priority--Homelessness:

"Marina Akhmedova: I will talk about the homeless.

"According to estimates of public organizations, from 80 to 100 thousand homeless people now live in Moscow and the Moscow region. Some of them, of course, chose such a life himself, and someone simply became a victim of circumstances. Be that as it may, all of them now – especially now – face problems in obtaining routine medical care.

"We know cases where homeless people just died on the street in agony from oncology, because they could not get pain relief in the hospital. We know exactly the cases when homeless women with oncology were discharged from the hospital with bleeding, simply by tamponing this bleeding, with the words: 'Contact your place of residence.' And where should they go if they do not have a place of residence?

"Here I must also say that they also lead a special lifestyle: they sleep sitting, because there is nowhere to lie down, they eat anything. Therefore, they often have vascular diseases, blood clots, diabetes and, of course, socially dangerous diseases like tuberculosis. But all this is done by planned assistance.

"In general, opening a hospital for the homeless was the dream of Dr. Lisa [Elizaveta Glinka]. She dreamed of opening a hospital where anyone could come – even without a passport, or without a policy. Just because he's human, he would be helped, that's his main document – that he's human. In 2014, she even received a small room for a hospital for the homeless, but at the same time the military conflict in the Donbass began, and she decided that it would be more correct to bring children there - wounded and seriously ill children.

"But now the problem with the treatment of the homeless has become very acute. This was due to the introduction of the compulsory health insurance system. Previously, budget financing covered the cost of medical care simply by the fact of its provision to any person.

"It is also worth saying that among the homeless there are quite a lot of people who simply lost their only home, but nevertheless they are trying, as best they can, to find a job, and somehow not to slide into an antisocial lifestyle. Of course, their rights are also largely infringed upon. Why? The fact that they cannot apply for a pension is also not able to find a job. And most importantly, they cannot receive routine treatment.

"Unfortunately, the CHI [Compulsory Health Insurance] is arranged in such a way that without registration on the 'State Services' it is impossible to get planned assistance. What's more, they can't even come and get in the coronavirus. Therefore, we have such proposals, such assistance measures.

"The first is, of course, to open a hospital for the antisocial homeless, where they could come for planned and emergency care at the expense of the compulsory health insurance.

"Then – to encourage grant support to non-profit organizations that are engaged in helping the homeless. And to amend the legislation that would allow homeless people to register at the place of actual stay, for example, at the address of a public authority or a social protection institution, and perhaps the already existing mechanism for registering representatives of small indigenous peoples will be useful here.

"And it would also be possible to create a mechanism for such registration through the 'State Services' and issue special social SIM cards to the homeless. In fact, the number of this SIM card is a registration, it is such a bridge between a person and the state. What gives? A person could go through this SIM card to 'State Services', 'Mosservices', other regional services, and there he could register at the place of stay. And he could have been called from the hospital, from the clinic, from the police, invited to work. He could have called all these agencies. And he could just call and invite him for vaccination as well.

"With vaccination, the homeless are also now in big problems. Most of them are not vaccinated, but when I talked to them, I understood why they just want to be vaccinated – because it would give them the opportunity to feel like full members of society.

"But I also understand that it is impossible to perform all these measures in one day, and time does not wait. Therefore, perhaps, it would be possible to allocate one day a week and invite [them], with the help of volunteers, to take people to polyclinics for vaccination, and then enter their data into the compulsory health insurance system.

"And in the end, I would like to share with you. I have been talking a lot lately about the need to create such a hospital, but often – although, you know, perhaps always, especially officials – they told me: 'What are your rational arguments?'

"It seems to me that there are no big ones, but there are many irrational ones, for example, mercy. I think that here in Russia, they act much more often from an irrational argument than from a rational one, and this is probably our essence. For example, the Sklifosovsky Ambulance Institute was once built by Count Sheremetyev also out of an irrational argument for such outcasts, useless people.

"At the same time, I know and remember that you yourself constantly remind us of the need for national preservation. I think it would be great if we took all these measures and could save our people.

"Thank you. I have everything."

Those that read through that testimony now know that Russia has a very serious problem with homeless people, which its climate makes such a situation very dangerous. Putin does provide a reply:

"Vladimir Putin: Marina Magomednebievna, you have raised a very sensitive issue.

"I think that all people who come from the Soviet past listen to this and, of course, remember that in the Soviet Union we called it 'ulcers of capitalism', which the socialist system is deprived of or practically devoid of. There were also homeless people, but not in such numbers. And, of course, for any person who is engaged in municipal service, public service, today's state cannot but generate a sense of shame for what is happening in our country.

"I think I said at the Valdai Club recently that classical capitalism is gradually disappearing in the international arena, because it causes too many contradictions, and in the end it will outlive itself.

"In our life today, in our current reality, when we are faced with the phenomena you mentioned and the shattered human destinies that you are talking about now, then, of course, a sense of shame should arise in everyone. We often talk about bureaucratic callousness, [but] it depends on the individuals. We have a lot of officials – conscientious, conscientious, with a sense of responsibility for what they do – but there are different ones, of course.

"And the state should build the appropriate work properly in order to provide assistance and support to people who find themselves in such a difficult life situation, regardless of why it happened, regardless of why it happened. If a person finds himself on the street without means of subsistence, without medical care and without housing, this is, of course, a special case that requires special attention from all those in power. I completely agree with you.

"Of course, we need to work through everything you have listed: registration, registration through the public services portal, and so on. But it is absolutely necessary to deal with this and deal with it more purposefully with the expectation of providing specific assistance to a particular person. This applies to the hospital too, and not just one, probably not in one region.

"Of course, this is all related to funding. And what, then, do we need public finances? Including the solution of such very acute tasks. These are people, our citizens. Therefore, we will definitely work on this, and the corresponding instruction will be given to the Government. I would like this to be resolved as quickly as possible, but we will see and we will also monitor the pace. I will also ask you not to leave this work.

"Of course, cooperation with NGOs, without any doubt, and with religious organizations is very important here. I know that all our traditional faiths are involved in this work in one way or another, helping people, and we need to encourage this in every possible way, to establish work with them and support them in their work in this area.

"Thank you very much. I marked for myself, we will do it." [All Emphasis Mine]

Yes, it's a very long comment. But I know for a fact that within health and human services departments at local governments within the Outlaw US Empire, such reports are very rare, and even rarer is compassion shown by the Leader to this most deplorable of human conditions within what's supposedly an advanced society. In this respect, Russia is behind China in this aspect of human rights.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 9 2021 18:24 utc | 381

That's interesting. Re: @Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 18:20 utc | 380

It posted.

Yesterday when I tried to link to a vaccine associated video on Rumble it was blocked.
Is the block specific to that particular video?

My next post will retry the link to the vaccine associated video on Rumble.

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 18:25 utc | 382

Blocked


@Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 18:25 utc | 382

The link was still blocked from posting.

Very interesting.

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 18:27 utc | 383

I lack English language links right now, but Biden did something unexpected. The last conversation with Putin was actually constructive, and the Administration made some cheap concessions and perhaps a profound turn in policy in respect to Russia and Ukraine.

Cheap concessions are important, because they interrupted ingrained rituals that keep adding sanctions on Russia and Russians. Profound turn is to join Russia in nudging Ukraine toward actually implementing Minsk agreement, in laymen terms, recognizing that inhabitants of Donetsk and Lugansk are actually humans with some "inalienable rights". Publicly, Administration and NATO acknowledged that would Ukraine be invaded, there would be no stopping of Russians. Today, NYT has a headline that top of Ukrainian military concedes that this is the case. (They could have a chance if they did not station 50% of forces at Far East end of the country).

The other reality is that pig-headed relations with Russia cost Ukraine more than Western aid can compensate, plus neither USA nor EU feels like being generous. The cost of converting Ukraine to "NATO standard" is yet much higher (NATO standards largely disarmed Europe in my opinion, limited budgets and heavily overpriced weapons).

The most attractive option for the West was a frozen conflict, Ukrainian sticking to pig-headedness and Russia sanctioned for their sins. But the combination of Putin wiles and additional conflicts on the agenda, Iran and China, made that difficult. Too many nightmare scenarios to list. A mystery remains: why Biden behaved like a mature statesman?

But before speculating about that, we can wait for more confirmations.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 9 2021 18:27 utc | 384

@ Piotr Berman | Dec 9 2021 18:27 utc | 384 who asked
"
A mystery remains: why Biden behaved like a mature statesman?
"

Because he was forced to by the circumstances and demands made of him. We were not flies on the wall at the recent Putin/Biden meeting but I am believing this to be a watershed moment in history. Just like the turning back of empire in Syria, I believe that Putin has just set empire on it heels and a twist is developing in those heels showing not only does empire no longer have total control but they are having to respond to positions that require negotiation to back down from.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 9 2021 18:55 utc | 385

View from the ground.

Someone I have worked with closely before has a sister in the research division in the US government medical directorates. I met him last night, and after discussing the immediate topics, I asked him for an update "from the horse's mouth" so to speak.

This individual is under 30, non-white.

1) Said person caught COVID despite being double vaccinated with a booster in Mexico. He said pretty much everyone in the longer stay hotel he was staying at got it, but that he was only down for 3 days while everyone else was down for far longer. In his view, this validated that the vaccine "works" even though Mexico is mandatory vax and has been vaccine mandated plus public place vax card checks in most places for quite some time. He also said that Mexico was doing free X-rays along with COVID tests, so lung damage and what not which can result even from asymptomatic COVID can be detected, as well as some other things like heart disease etc.

2) He reiterated that the vaccines work but admitted that clearly they don't prevent getting COVID (since he got it after triple jab) and don't stop spread either (since everyone around him was vaxed and got COVID.

3) I ask him about the long game - is this jabs forever? After throwing out a 90% vax requirement to tame COVID - which I called bullshit on since nobody, anywhere, is going to hit 90% vax compliance (especially if regular boosters are also required) - he admitted that was true. He then said that in 3-5 years, if sufficient vaxed = survive COVID, that the combination of vax+natural immunity would reduce COVID to more or less the flu would occur at which time COVID is "tamed".

I didn't say it at the time, but I did think that 3-5 years of 0.1% to 0.2% COVID deaths has at least some effect of simply killing off a significant number of those who are most vulnerable to COVID - genetically as well as pre-existing condition-wise.

But there you have it: the best and brightest think that the best case scenario assuming mass jabbing and boosters is still 3-5 years of COVID messiness. Doesn't seem like a win to me.

I did say that ongoing failure to achieve "COVID taming", coupled with outright lie messaging like COVID vaccines are sterilizing (prevent getting it and/or transmitting it), would make it far more likely we have mass regime changes in governments in 2 or 3 years - long before the 3-5 year pulled out of ass estimates of "COVID taming" via the multijab would work, even assuming that policy works.

Posted because I do think it is useful to understand what our so-called leaders are being advised regarding COVID.

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 18:57 utc | 386

@Piotr Berman 384
I have been scanning the commentators for further news of the Biden/Putin talk, and nowhere can I find any mention of Crimea.
Have I overlooked something?

Posted by: Montreal | Dec 9 2021 18:57 utc | 387

What will it take for Russia to become convinced that NATO is serious about discussions? I ask that question in light of this very poor attempt by Stoltenberg at diplomacy. As long as NATO, the Outlaw US Empire and EU continue to include lies in their "invitations," there won't be any answer provided since the lies indicate the very lack of seriousness given by those entities.

Piotr Berman @384 laments the lack of "English language links" that might provide "confirmation" that "The last conversation with Putin was actually constructive, and the Administration made some cheap concessions and perhaps a profound turn in policy in respect to Russia and Ukraine."

What he wants was already provided, although the link was the Russian language readout, which is now available in English:

"In response, Vladimir Putin warned against shifting the responsibility on Russia, since it was NATO that was undertaking dangerous attempts to gain a foothold on Ukrainian territory, and building up its military capabilities along the Russian border. It is for this reason that Russia is eager to obtain reliable, legally binding guaranties ruling out the eventuality of NATO’s eastward expansion and the deployment of offensive weapons systems in the countries neighbouring Russia.

"The two leaders agreed to instruct their representatives to engage in meaningful consultations on these sensitive matters."

Putin then provided further explanation at a presser with the Greek PM which I provided yesterday and again repeat below with the most relevant Q&A:

"Question: Andrei Kolesnikov, Kommersant newspaper.

"Mr President, can you dispel the main doubt: Is Russia still going to attack Ukraine or not? If not, can you explain why? And if yes, the answer is even more urgently needed. Thank you.

"Vladimir Putin: This is a question designed to provoke. Russia pursues a peaceful foreign policy but it has the right to ensure its security, as I have already said, in the medium to longer term. We are discussing this issue with our partners – all our partners, including my partner in conversation yesterday, US President Joseph Biden.

"We are bound to be concerned over the prospect of Ukraine’s potential accession to NATO because this will be followed by the deployment of corresponding troop contingents, bases and weapons that threaten us. I have already described this in broad strokes, replying to the previous question. I will flesh out my claims in response to your question. I think it will be enough of an answer for today.

"We proceed from the premise that our concerns will be heard, at least this time. That said, over the past few decades we continuously expressed our concerns and asked our partners to abstain from certain actions but nonetheless NATO infrastructure inevitably moved closer to our borders and now we are seeing Mk 14 missile defence systems in Poland and Romania. We have every reason to believe that the same will happen in Ukraine if NATO accepts it.

"How can we not think about this? Looking on helplessly at what is happening there would be simply criminal negligence. This is exactly what our talks dealt with.

"Let me repeat again: we have agreed to create a relevant structure that will be in a position to address this problem practically and thoroughly and will present relevant proposals.

"I must admit that the US President put forward this idea. I agreed with it and said that we will soon submit our ideas and proposals in this regard. It is probably premature to speak about these proposals until we formulate them. That said, I realise that they understandably evoke heightened interest among the Russian, European and international public. We will, of course, do this as publicly as we can." [My Emphasis]

The only "concession" was to continue the dialog and to discuss Russia's concerns. We did learn that some meaningful progress was made as a result of the previous summit meeting--the cyber security talks--which shows dialog can have a productive outcome. Putin and Lavrov have both made proposals related to NATO advancement, Russia's security needs and what such an architecture would look like--all encompassing. Much of that discussion by Putin can be read here and was made almost a month ago. Lavrov echoed it at the OSCE Forum if Stockholm last week. It was all reported here, although no general discussion ensued. Escobar provided the best published review of the video summit that you can read here.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 9 2021 19:00 utc | 388

@Piotr Berman #384
I think taking any words out of a US politician's mouth - particularly Brandon's - as either reliable or truthful, is a huge mistake.
And I am 100% sure that Putin believes this as well after his own 20+ years of being lied to, and Russia's generation's worth of being lied to by Americans.

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 19:03 utc | 389

@Posted by: Montreal | Dec 9 2021 18:57 utc | 387

Yes

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 19:05 utc | 390

Montreal @387--

Crimea wasn't mentioned in either readout, but the bigger problems of Kiev's blatant refusal to comply with a UNSCR and NATO's eastward encroachment were. See my comment @388.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 9 2021 19:06 utc | 391

@Posted by: Montreal | Dec 9 2021 18:57 utc | 387

Try

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 17:53 utc | 377

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 19:07 utc | 392

Watching Campbell's Oslo Party (today on Youtube), it would seem that letting Omicron spread would help stop the epidemy, while boosters should be kept for countries struggling with Delta only (and for people who got Pfizer more than 6 months ago and are in the at risk categories).

Posted by: Julie | Dec 9 2021 19:11 utc | 393

Posted by: Montreal | Dec 9 2021 18:57 utc | 387 <-- Crimea is not a subject that can be agreed upon at this time, so the best thing that could be done was to leave the topic for later.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 9 2021 19:00 utc | 388 <-- Obviously, the lack of English links existed only in my knowledge, but I though that this is a very interesting and hopefully, positive development, worth discussing, so I posted without searching for other sources. Searching on YouTube etc. is very tedious, so I tend to check the same few content makers, and among them, only Alexander Mercouris communicates in English.


Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 9 2021 19:15 utc | 394

I see Putin has made a very major comment at the Council meeting I linked @381 that wasn't contained in the transcript at the time I viewed it. "Putin: What is Happening in Donbass Resembles Genocide":

"The situation in Donbass resembles a genocide, Russian President Vladimir Putin has said.

"'We can see clearly and know what is happening in the Donbass right now. This, of course, very much resembles a genocide, about which you have spoken,' Putin said, speaking to Kirill Vyshinsky, a Ukrainian journalist and the former director of Sputnik sister agency RIA Novosti Ukraine.

"The Russian president made the comments Thursday at a meeting of the Russian council for the development of civil society and human rights.

"Putin suggested that Russophobia was the first step toward genocide, and stressed that 'we need to act very carefully so as not to devalue the meaning of these concepts.'[An explicit reference to the Outlaw US Empire's false accusations aimed at China.] Unfortunately, he said, the concepts should reflect the realities of events taking place on the ground. 'Let's think about it,' he urged."

As I noted when reporting on his decree to further incorporate Donbass economically with Russia, it was made with reference to the UN Genocide Convention setting the grounds for its use in a Russian R2P operation.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 9 2021 19:17 utc | 395

Hurry back b, hope you're better soon...

Good synopsis on Ukraine. A must listen...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/56915.htm

Posted by: vetinLA | Dec 9 2021 19:19 utc | 396

Montreal @ 326 - thanks for that information! Learning the poems by heart - that is a project! I've loved them a long time, without entirely understanding but just knowing their stretch into the final Beethoven quartets takes them beyond logic and 'rightness' into the realm of music where silence speaks. And having encyclopedic knowledge at our fingertips in the golden age of computers I was able to explore Little Gidding in particular - the history of that place is truly fascinating.

Another early exploration for me was the island of Patmos -- much as our friends here are discussing the layers of knowledge with respect to ancient peoples, early in their existence computers gave a far greater expanse of mindbroadening texts. I will never go physically to these places, but I have been to Little Gidding and to Patmos.
So for as long as we have it, thank you too, internet. It's being shuttered bit by bit at present, but thanks to b here, and the experts we have in our midst, precious sources of informative articles are still available, plus the personal contact we all need.

Also thanks to Melaleuca, if thanks can be said on such a painful occasion of loss, a mind-numbing tragedy. You grace us here. May you be comforted.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 9 2021 19:24 utc | 397

Unfortunately, only citing the ubiquitous "unnamed official," this report says:

"The Biden administration plans to put pressure on the Ukrainian government to cede autonomy to the breakaway Donbass territories,"

The first mention of any force being applied to Kiev to obey the UNSCR based on the Minsk2 protocols. The proof as always will be in Kiev's actions.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 9 2021 19:25 utc | 398

@Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 9 2021 19:15 utc | 394

You posted:
"Crimea is not a subject that can be agreed upon at this time, so the best thing that could be done was to leave the topic for later."

That was a surprise to read.

When it comes to subject matter
Barflies Don't Care.

(hint: Honey Badger)

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2021 19:26 utc | 399

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 9 2021 18:57 utc | 386

Sadly, vaccines give only statistic advantage, improving individual odds. Properly working vaccine trains immune system of the vaccinated person provoking immune reaction, but the outcome of an immune reaction has a degree of randomness and even larger variability between subjects. Reliability of vaccination is variously reported between 75% and 90%.*

Even more sadly, a huge confusion exists about the best treatment of the sick, vaccinated or not. It seems that the mortality was much larger initially than later, so perhaps treatments improved, but I am not aware of a comprehensive efforts to compare and track different approaches, including off-patent medicines. In the long run, only the combination of (a) vaccination (b) treatment (c) benign evolution (less lethal strains tend to be more infectious) will reduce COVID to "another influenza". Thus the efforts of CDC, NIH and similar agencies seem one-sided and deficient.

* I have seen a Twit about the following achievement: a vaccine that increases survival from Ebola infection from 48% to 66%. Hm. Every life saved is good, but suddenly, COVID vaccines started looking better to me. But they are like seatbelts -- no guarantee that you will survive a crash, but worthwhile to use.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 9 2021 19:38 utc | 400

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