Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 26, 2021

The New Virus Variant Has Lots Of Mutations - That Does Not (Yet) Mean It's 'Very Bad'

Yesterday the chief of the World Health Organzation warned about a 'false sense of security' around Covid-19 vaccines:

In a news briefing in Geneva on Wednesday, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said many vaccinated people were wrongly thinking receiving the COVID shot meant they no longer needed to take any other precautions.

“In many countries and communities, we are concerned about a false sense of security that vaccines have ended the pandemic, and that people who are vaccinated do not need to take any other precautions,” Tedros told reporters.
...
“We cannot say this clearly enough: even if you are vaccinated, continue to take precautions to prevent becoming infected yourself, and infecting someone else who could die.”

“That means wearing a mask, maintaining distance, avoiding crowds and meeting others outside if you can, or in a well-ventilated space inside.

The warning was a shot against the Biden administration which has done away with all non-pharmaceutical intervention (NPI) measures. These will be again needed if the news from South Africa of a new variance of concern turns out to be as bad as it sounds:

Health Minister Joe Phaahla said the variant was linked to an “exponential rise” of cases in the last few days, although experts are still trying to determine if the new variant, named B.1.1.529, is actually responsible.

From just over 200 new confirmed cases per day in recent weeks, South Africa saw the number of new daily cases rocket to 2,465 on Thursday. Struggling to explain the sudden rise in cases, scientists studied virus samples from the outbreak and discovered the new variant.
...
It appears to have a high number of mutations — about 30 — in the coronavirus’ spike protein, which could affect how easily it spreads to people.

Sharon Peacock, who has led genetic sequencing of COVID-19 in Britain at the University of Cambridge, said the data so far suggest the new variant has mutations “consistent with enhanced transmissibility,” but said that “the significance of many of the mutations is still not known.”

A presentation by the Health Ministry of South Africa can be viewed here. The slide show at 5:10 forward is the interesting part.


bigger

This (blue) variant seems to out-compete others very fast.

Yves Smith has a good but scary thread about the potential dangers this new variant may bring. The details she presents look pretty dire.

Then again:

Dr. Angela Rasmussen @angie_rasmussen - 14:17 UTC · Nov 25, 2021
Friendly reminder that new variants are just that: new. We can’t know if they will be bad or just meh based on sequence alone, nor guess at their provenance. Lots of mutations ≠ very bad.

The variants name is B.1.1.529 and the WHO has given it the Greek alphabet letter 'Omicron' i.e. O.

The virus type was only found last week and then only in a cluster of younger people in South Africa. But it may well have come from elsewhere.

There are several mutations visible within this new variant strain which likely means that it must have evolved some months ago:

Prof Francois Balloux @BallouxFrancois - 10:36 UTC · Nov 26, 2021
For that genetic diversity to have accumulated, B.1.1.529 must have been in circulation for at least 2-3 months (i.e. SARS-CoV-2 lineages 'click' at ~2 mutations/month).

In recent days more cases with this variant were already found in Malawi, Belgium, Israel and Hong Kong. There are likely many more all around the world. The horse has clearly left the barn and the travel stops, which were today again implemented, will only slow down the spread.

We already know that some of the monoclonal antibody therapeutics that can be used against previous variants will not work against this one as some specifically targeted  gene regions have changed in it. There is also the possibility that the protection that current vaccines give us will not work as well against the new variant as they do against previous ones.

It means that we will again need non-pharmaceutical interventions to slow the spread. As Yves writes:

By letting business drive public health policy with its quest for a “return to normal,” the entire last year was squandered, not just NPIs, but testing, contact tracing, international infection control standards, everything. We said this amounted operational to “Let ‘er rip.” B.1.1.529 may show us the true cost of that recklessness. And where did the recent rounds of bad variants come from? This is three times – Kent, India, now South Africa – where the Anglo incubation reservoirs that capitalism creates have spilled over into waves of world-wide infection. China would be fully justified in never “opening up,” with obvious consequences for a “return to normal” in the supply chain.

Consider GM’s cheery advice (emphasis his):

Consider yourself fully unvaccinated from now on and go back to March 2020 precautions.

There are many open question about the new variant of concern:

  • How fast does this variant really spread?
  • Is it more infectious?
  • Does it cause a more severe illness?
  • Is it more deadly?
  • How well do the vaccines hold up against it?

From the current data none of those questions can yet be answered. It will take two to four weeks to find out.

Kai Kupferschmidt @kakape - 13:58 UTC · Nov 26, 2021
So as usual: Beware of anyone who is overly confident on anything about this variant right now. There is a lot we need to find out.

If you have not be vaccinated yet please get a shot as soon as possible. You may want to (re-)read the last Moon of Alabama thread on that:

Why You Should Get Vaccinated But Do Not Need A Third Shot

Until we do have more information about this new variant we should probably all follow GM's advice at least as much as we can.

---
Note:

I will police the comments in this thread. Any hyping of unproven medications and other not science based speculations will be removed and might get you banned.

Posted by b on November 26, 2021 at 18:43 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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James,
While off topic, I just remembered: the "handle" on my earliest comments was "nationofbloodthirstysheep" b took the liberty of condensing that for me to: "nationofsheep." So I changed to "NOBTS." I like pronouncing it as an acronym: "No Bots."

Posted by: NOBTS | Nov 27 2021 4:42 utc | 101

Fear is the key, is it not, to control people?
We know virtually nothing about the virulence of this variant and yet the fear-mongering has gone viral already.

Posted by: Moses | Nov 27 2021 4:43 utc | 102

@ laodan | Nov 27 2021 2:47 utc | 95

Beijing has been cut off from the rest of the country since 2 weeks already and will stay so until the Olympics are over !

+ I'm watching the unfolding of Western societal atomization into its natural destination... in the comfort of complete freedom in Beijing. How is it for you in the entrails of the beast ?

Here from India which you label an "Anglo incubation reservoirs that capitalism creates".

1) What capitalism created in China is the most ferocious variant: Big state mated with selected MNCs, and honest free markets went out of the window on day one. Blame Mao & Nixon.
2) Did you realize the contradiction in your above two sentences?
3) We in India are doing fine: few extra covid19 deaths, society functions fairly open.

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 27 2021 5:06 utc | 103

So sad to hear about the banning. The mood here has become increasingly ugly over the last couple of months (covid fatigue?) but I don't recall vk, Jackrabbit etc participating in the gratuitous name-calling.

lex tallonis @98

Thanks for the heads up re the new Kees Van der Pijl book. I loved Flight MH17, Ukraine and the new Cold War: Prism of disaster, my first post here was to promote it. Sadly we will be missing Marxist perspectives on international relations like this if vk remains banned.

Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Nov 27 2021 5:10 utc | 104

@ Moses | Nov 27 2021 4:43 utc | 108

Indeed, simple fear out of ignorance has been weaponized into FEAR by the MSM as directed by their pay masters.

As much as placebos through psychology function, so does fear.

Not that Covid19 is a neglectable risk but it is quite manageable with simple precautions. Those with the weakest immune response have to be very careful, not the 90% rest of populations.

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 27 2021 5:14 utc | 105

I truly believe that 'science' is merely a religion. I wasted about three years of my youth developing an entirely novel mathematical system. I had a very close friend who had a PhD in math who I tried to describe it to. He instantly launched into a lecture about some lame theory that vaguely seemed to resemble what I had done, and after finishing his 'lesson' turned away and never wanted to listen to what I was trying to describe at all. At the university they also refused to listen. They had all subjected themselves to the torture of wading through the dark dismal swamp of post grad school, and most of them were badly damaged individuals. Not so long ago I read a paper written by some mathematicians who were painfully lamenting that they had a problem that they were unable to properly solve. A problem that I could have easily handled with paper and pencil in about five minutes using my methods, which I had developed 45 years prior. So much for 'science'. These people are nuts.

While I am nowhere near being a microbiologist, I can make a few assessments regarding the covid event. It's just my own guesswork, but it's based on a lot of reading. For many reasons I think the original covid '19' (causing) virus was the result a a 'GMO' variant of some wild corona virus. The so-called 'spike' protein (family) does not occur in any other corona virus, and was probably 'transplanted' from some totally different family of viruses. This could literally have been accomplished by a highly trained microbiologist working in a garage.

DNA based viruses such as those that cause smallpox or herpes are DNA viruses which probably possess sophisticated error correction machinery. The covid '19' causing viruses are smaller and RNA based, with either crude or absent error correction. This makes them prone to mutate. The information stored in DNA can be 'directly' transcribed to the chemically somewhat different RNA, and vice versa. But DNA is more resilient, and less subject to breakage, mutation, and degradation. However, because RNA is more 'mechanically' flexible than DNA, it can manufacture a much wider range of proteins from amino acids. The rhino viruses, flu viruses, and corona viruses are RNA based, so they mutate often. Perversely, this turns out to be a great advantage.

The so-called 'spike' proteins accomplish many complex functions. They attach to animal cell membranes. They also transfer the 'covid' RNA through those membranes. They apparently also inactivate animal nuclear DNA error correction. Some say they can interfere with the 'innate' immune system, perhaps resulting in a pathological overreaction of the 'adaptive' immune system, which typically takes days to respond, and is often lethal.

My personal guess is that ivermectin, and perhaps zinc plus hydroxychloroquine probably do act more-or-less as 'protease inhibitors' that disrupt 'covid' virus replication within animal cells. Some say that green tea can work with zinc in a somewhat similar way. It is scandalous that no appropriately conducted studies have yet been performed to determine the validity of this.

In the meantime, by far, the best method to prevent pandemic is the limitation of travel, especially by aircraft. But Air Travel seems to be another religion, so we must be sacrificed to it.

Posted by: blues | Nov 27 2021 5:30 utc | 106

Real Science: one valid counter case can derail a long held paradigm.
Today's science: con-sensus, peer protected groupthink, fueled by very selective funding for the wanted outcomes. Ostracition to keep the flock together.
Religion: the long held paradigm cannot be questioned by anyone or any argument, at the risk of banishment or death. No arguments at all - not thinking, only worship as directed by "The" one human leader, the sole intermediator between you and ...... These 'fixers' are the main problem.

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 27 2021 5:54 utc | 107

Posted by: librul | Nov 26 2021 19:38 utc | 8

that was actually pretty fuckin' funny. Kinda like the Kennedy papers that somehow STILL haven't been released. Is it the same for Moderna trials? I know people who were part of those.

I still find it marginally offensive that certain posters are telling those of us who have received a vaccine shot that we're more susceptible to some cancers and other variants without any actual studies to prove it. Just more politicized bullshit. I've lost 5 close friends, family and acquaintances to COVID-19; it's not bullshit.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 27 2021 6:25 utc | 108

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 27 2021 4:40 utc | 106

Medical science itself has no natural "big twin" in Big Pharma but for the fact that American style "democracy" has allowed the latter to acquire and infiltrate the former.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 27 2021 6:28 utc | 109

@4 Matt
Me neither, I wouldn't touch a vaccine during a pandemic. Here's why: I spent 25 years in infectious disease ID and clinical research, mostly in anti-infectives, and have an industry aligned Masters (MSc). The reason we have such an evolving pandemic is because a critical rule has been broken: Specific vaccines should NEVER be rolled out during a pandemic, as the virus will actively mutate as it encounters them. Given that vaccines usually take 5+ years to develop with full safety testing (phase IIIb and phase IV clinical trials), we have not done this before. So now we reap the never-ending character of a viral pandemic that the early data from China suggested our immune systems were handling adequately except for the usual assistive care required for the immunocompromised and those with comorbidities.

Posted by: TEP | Nov 27 2021 6:40 utc | 110

blues | Nov 27 2021 5:30 utc | 114

...an entirely novel mathematical system. I had a very close friend who had a PhD in math who I tried to describe it to. He instantly launched into a lecture about some lame theory...
At the university they also refused to listen. They had all subjected themselves to the torture of wading through the dark dismal swamp of post grad school, and most of them were badly damaged individuals. ...

Hi blues. Awesome and well stated. The generic "mind" to which we are attached [does anyone recall volunteering for one?] is robotic and desperate to always be right [and making others wrong helps it to be right]. In any specialty requiring many years of study and permissions "examinations" [e.g. Medical Doctor degree 4 yrs college + 3 yrs med-school + internship + residency + Board Certified is full-time investment of attention on ingesting whatever the "authorities" say in mostly 1-way communication.

Then later to dare consider the "authorities" were wrong is tempting the sudden end of career. Your license to practice is pulled or you are ostracized within your field and forced to submit or leave.

Who would dare to consider that he had been wrong about this or that after so many years of wrong practice? His "mind" will never consent to being wrong without a most stressful fight and desperate plots to justify its "thinking"...so that it was right even though it was wrong!

In mid-1800s Dr Ignaz Semmelweiss, using scientific method, introduced washing hands [general hygiene] to stop spread of infection by mysterious "germ" particles. It worked! For that he was attacked by the very best "authorities" and driven into a mental institution where he died.

The "mind" is always "right",.. it was somehow designed that way[?]. The profession of "authorities" on the mind" are themselves utterly resistant to using scientific method to learn about just what "mind" is.

And truth beware. The entrenched "authorities" are famous for labelling any
effective threats to their positions as targets for ruin...and in that they are competent.

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 27 2021 7:20 utc | 111

laodan #95

I'm watching the unfolding of Western societal atomization into its natural destination... in the comfort of complete freedom in Beijing. How is it for you in the entrails of the beast ?

Thank you for your post. I would join you if it were possible and enjoy the city and its delights of history and architecture and food. However life in the entrails is warm and the beast feeds hungrily on the masses so the flow of nutrients is sufficient. Thankfully the beast, in its stupidity, has outlawed Ivermectin so I am safe for now.

I enjoy your site and give you respect and warm wishes for a long life.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 27 2021 7:25 utc | 112

Kim Jong,
Interesting. Here in Morocco chickens are still out on every market for immediate slaughtering and purchase. It made me wonder if that was the key for the better immunity in Africa in general.

Posted by: Tom2 | Nov 27 2021 8:50 utc | 113

To justify a coming suspension of touristic flights (until the next "season") Belgium claims ONE Omicron case, supposedly a woman (bad-bad) coming back from Egypt (poor-poor). Nothing about her symptoms. Mild? Strong? One case in a full plane? Contagious?? My ass!

Posted by: Tom2 | Nov 27 2021 8:55 utc | 114

@ Juliana 103

Which Artemisia species you grow? I Have A annua, A. arboretum and A absynthum. I make about 10 l from A annua, now for the 2nd year by soaking it in cheap port. It works almost magically against colds, and hopefully also the more lethal -19 variant. It did do nothing against the lasting Pfizer side effects; a low dose IVM worked within hours, 2 months after the first (and second) shot. The absinthum brew is almost too bitter to drink.
To me, all medications, recommended herbs and shots should be employed. I still recommend the vaccination, but also the stuff which might cause a ban. There is danger in the either/ or approach. Medicine ought not to be politicized (and lobbyist of both sides should be prosecuted/ outlawed).

Posted by: Rootman | Nov 27 2021 8:56 utc | 115

Once again, a thoroughly informative and well researched piece.

Posted by: Tranquilitus | Nov 27 2021 9:04 utc | 116

Guadaloupe (and Martinique)
There are anti-Macron/Covid riots.

Why? First came the usual dictats from Macron;

In September, France had made it compulsory for all health workers, home carers, transport staff, medical students, firefighters, and all related personnel to have the Covid vaccine. This was accompanied with the requisitioning of all Ivermectin stocks in order to force the deeply unpopular vaccine upon the people of Guadeloupe (as well as neighbouring Martinique). According to French government figures, only 33% of Guadeloupeans are vaccinated (versus 75% in Metropolitan France), with a simiar figure in Martinique.

What are the roots of the resisitance to Macons dictats? Possibly many more, but this particular one is interesting. People who have been experimented on don't easily forget.

For decades, agriculture workers in Guadeloupe and Martinique were exposed to an endocrine-disrupting, carcinogenic pesticide called chlordecone. Around 95% of the population in these two islands is known to register chlordecone in their blood. Studies have linked the pesticide to prostate cancer, and, significantly, Guadeloupe and Martinique have the highest prostate cancer rates in the world. Yet nothing has been done about real health emergencies such as this one. And this goes a long way to explain the distrust towards the metropolis that is felt in the French Antilles. It is this context that has empowered vaccination-refusal, which is now turning into a nationalist and patriotic cause.

(my emphasis)

A link with the full information;
https://yvymaraey.blogspot.com/2021/11/uprising-in-guadeloupe.html

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 27 2021 9:12 utc | 117

Rootman #124

Re artemesia, in ayervedic practice the very bitter herbs are powdered, mixed with a little flour (wheat or chickpea) moistened a little and rolled in the hand to pea sized balls then swallowed. Powdered artemisia is available in powder form in capsules online. My chooks get it when I mix powder in wet mash for them. I chew it straight off the bush - mighty bitter but ....

Vasaka powder (Adhatoda vasica aka the king of bitters - a common plant) used historically for thousand + years for assisting in clearing acute bronchial condition is prepared as powder rolled into pea balls. Readily available on line too.

Ivermectin blankets the spike protein but does not eliminate it so when the ivermectin ceases the spike proteins might resurge.
Then go to ACE2 receptor blocking:
Black seed oil, Star anise as tea is very good, Pine needle tea, Fuja occidentalis

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 27 2021 9:57 utc | 118

Re my #127 above

Many modern pharmaceuticals are directly derived from herbal or fungi base. That is one of the reasons for the conservation of rainforests and all ecosystem types as they are extraordinary reservoirs of plants and fungi that have known and unknown medicinal use. I have tincture of Ganoderma Lucidum, aka Reishi a Japanese fungi to assist in my metabolism.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 27 2021 10:05 utc | 119

Hoyeru #3

Just one problem. You are wrong on so many levels or just simply didn't listen so well
Darwinism works for living organisms. Which viruses aren't!!
Virus doesn't adapt to vaccines or any other thing. Bacteria and other "higher" live organism do that.
Virus mutations are actually "factory mistakes" that appear when the virus copies itself inside its host. Which means that a chance for a dangerous mutation increases with EVERY NEW multiplication! Leading to a simple conclusion. The more prople get infected, higher the chance of a mutation. And that where a smart person realizes that the best way do decrease a chance of a new mutation is VACCINATION. Period.

Posted by: Kukulele | Nov 27 2021 10:43 utc | 120

Note:
I will police the comments in this thread. Any hyping of unproven medications and other not science based speculations will be removed and might get you banned.

interesting, science is about the unproven.. the whole idea in science is to disprove every theory, every assertion, every wild scheme, every idea, every proposal or every whatever, until that which is left cannot be disproved.. that which survives ( remains, or is left ) is the finding of the processes we call science..but that finding, no matter the effort it took to make it a finding, is provisional <= tomorrow someone will disprove the prior finding and a new finding of science will be the result.

The King of Spain commanded his Admiral guarding French access to an ocean bay in front of a Spanish colony in America. "Admiral all you need do is to drain the bay. Weeks later The Admiral responded." there is much more water in the bay than we thought, been pumping for days without success.

suggest you look at this 3.5 hour fact finding inquiry.. conducted by Senator Johnson.

https://thehighwire.com/videos/live-in-d-c-expert-panel-on-medical-mandates-vaccine-injuries/

Posted by: snake | Nov 27 2021 10:51 utc | 121

Stonebird is right and the people in Guadeloupe and Martinique are right to be furious: they have endemic Dengue fever outbreaks and IVM is the classical treatment for it.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02045069
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6277121/

Posted by: Julie | Nov 27 2021 11:31 utc | 122

Human immune system is a highly adaptable sophisticated system which developed over eons. There is so much intelligent design in the human immunity. But this immune system is not a linear system and it does not offer the same response to the same challenge in different individuals. This is why no matter what kind of bacteria or virus mutation appears or is engineered, the individuals may die but the species will continue. There is a constant war between the immune system and the changing environment, until we get old, our immunity starts failing and we die almost always from some infection that could not be resisted (even cancers and heart attacks have a relationship with the immune system).

Whilst the old vaccines containing attenuated bacteria or viruses were simple and safe, serving as a warning to our immune system of the forthcoming threat, the mRNA vaccines are a hack of our immune system. mRNA is not bad science, it was a highly promising technology for the future. Unfortunately, it has been applied much, much too early when its creators still have the foggiest understanding of the issues involved. It has been rushed through to make money in our lifetime, the lifetime of the people owning this technology. Who’s gonna wait another 50 years for the real science and understanding.

Applying mRNA to force our bodies to produce a viral toxin which appears to remain in our bodies for at least 12-15 months after vaccination and accumulate with every booster shot, until our immune system reduces and eventually stops reacting to this slap on the face due to immune exhaustion!?!? The law of diminishing returns with poison accumulation. Plus ADE. We really know so little but boldly go where no man has gone before.

The mRNA technology will almost certainly acquire such a bad name that, if we survive the forthcoming societal failure and the possible nuclear war, it may be banned by any organised society due to its past ruthless abuse.

Posted by: Kiza | Nov 27 2021 11:35 utc | 123

I understand that you've bought into the scamdemic narrative, b, and that you operate a censorship against anyone who tries to argue that that's what it really is. So I won't try to offer any of that mass of sound arguments and evidence that demonstrate the reality of the scam.

Instead, I'll offer you a bullion bet: My whole British Sovereign coin against your half-sovereign that at Christmas time next year, the 'Ohmycrud!!!' mutation will have proved to be just as much of a damp squib as have it's - alleged - predecessors. And the (real) all-causes excess death toll (if you can find any chance to get an actually trustworthy estimate) will, as has happened so far in the whole wilfully-artificial covid panic, be about what you might expect from a bad-flu year.

There now, excellent realpolitik analyst that you are, normally (not being snide; I mean it!), censor this post if you please... But, you know: How about taking that bet...? You have my email address. Drop me a line if you're on! :) Best, Rh.

Posted by: Rhisiart Gwilym | Nov 27 2021 11:36 utc | 124

Kukulele writes "the best way do decrease a chance of a new mutation is VACCINATION"
Do you mean vaccinating the people who actually move and mix or only the 1% richest starting with the +80 and then wait a few years for the rest of the world?

Posted by: Julie | Nov 27 2021 11:38 utc | 125

@snake | Nov 27 2021 10:51 utc | 122

interesting, science is about the unproven.. the whole idea in science is to disprove every theory, every assertion, every wild scheme, every idea, every proposal or every whatever, until that which is left cannot be disproved.. that which survives ( remains, or is left ) is the finding of the processes we call science..but that finding, no matter the effort it took to make it a finding, is provisional <= tomorrow someone will disprove the prior finding and a new finding of science will be the result.

Correct, I agree.

What we are looking at is a total collapse of society, because logic and reason has gone out the window with "leaders" and people in power. It is now a completely criminal enterprise, now also trying to alter the meaning of the word "science" in an Orwellian fashion.

What we are looking at now is a panic move by the "elite", the narrative has failed. These people have no reverse gear, they are going to double down until the whole "shithouse goes up in flames", to quote Jim Morrison. The only question we have left is: Those who are peddling this narrative, are they coerced into doing so or are they in on it from the beginning?

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2021 11:46 utc | 126

A positive sign for me is the overwhelming rejection in this thread regarding the validity of the supposed dangerous "strain". I see that as a change in mood from March 2020, when I felt rather lonely in declaring the whole thing an insane authoritarian move that has nothing to do with physical health. I believe the mood in this thread is also a reasonable representation of the attitude change among people in general.

I don't feel quite as lonely anymore, but this is a very dangerous situation. The authoritarian actions taken now are distractions from something else that is coming, an economic crash and/or war.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2021 11:56 utc | 127

Norwegian @ 128

I don’t feel quite as lonely anymore, but this is a very dangerous situation

Yep, dangermen at work!

Posted by: john | Nov 27 2021 12:09 utc | 128

Follow your nose for Covid-19 treatment.

There is an anti-viral, anti-bacterial vaso-dilating nanomolecule called nitric oxide produced in the nasal passage that is one of the body's first defenses against airborn pathogens. A Vancouver respiratory physican, Dr.Chris Miller, developed a nitric oxide delivery system for hospital respiratory patients being used by the likes of Boston's Mass. General to treat Covid patients: https://www.massgeneral.org/news/press-release/nitric-oxide-benefit-pregnant-covid-patients.

Miller has developed a nitric oxide stimulating nasal spray called saNOtize that has been approved for use in Covid treatment in Canada, Israel, UK, India and other nations: https://nocamels.com/2021/07/sanotize-covid-nasal-spray-israeli-pharmacies/

This University of Pennsylvania study found that quinine in tonic water/beverages stimulates nasal nitric oxide production: https://www.pennmedicine.org/departments-and-centers/otorhinolaryngology/about-us/newsletters/latest-newsletter/quinine-the-tonic-for-covid19

Or, one can simply hum: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12119224/

Posted by: Gulo | Nov 27 2021 12:09 utc | 129

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 27 2021 4:40 utc | 106

Medical science itself has no natural "big twin" in Big Pharma but for the fact that American style "democracy" has allowed the latter to acquire and infiltrate the former.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 27 2021 6:28 utc | 110

We've always been fond of drugs here because of the high markup: sugar, rum, tobacco, cocaine, tea, coffee, opium, cannabis, kat, anywhere the profit motive infringes on good sense drugs are a popular product. The ideal product costs almost nothing to produce and yet sells for a high price. Many drugs fill the bill. Selling your own "expertise" is best of all, and very popular today. Hence all the ritualized mumbo-jumbo that accompanies medical care today.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 27 2021 12:25 utc | 130

Easiest way to come up with variants is to look for them.
Posted by: Oldhippie | Nov 26 2021 19:51 utc | 12

Thanks for that gem Oldhippie, here's another:

Easiest way to get Covid-19 is to test for it. I know a couple who both got covid in the last couple of weeks (both vaccinated of course). Both spent the time in the ICU. Both were TOTALLY FREE OF SYMPTOMS. It's a whole new world we live in now, George Orwell would be over the moon.

The way in which this small drip of information has been promulgated says it is on the newsfeed simply to amplify ambient fear.

Exactly. It is the fear porn which kills more than the virus - and will go on killing for longer.

Posted by: BM | Nov 27 2021 12:34 utc | 131

The omicron variant is B.1.1.529. Note that. WHO says first identified on November 9, 2021.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/how-scientists-detect-new-covid-19-variants/

WEF discussed B.1.1.529 way back on July 12.

They are just throwing shit at the wall to see what will stick.

Omicron is pure fiction. Go back to sleep.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Nov 27 2021 12:36 utc | 132

Covid-19 always seems to get the limelight, but there is a much more insidious danger that always seems to be ignored - oxygen. Most people are not even aware that oxygen is toxic, and scientific research has shown that it is carcinogenic. Scientists have shown that exposure to oxygen has multiple toxic effects on human cells in vitro. Worse still - deprivation of oxygen is even more deadly. So what to do? Tough question, isn't it? Something for the WHO to tackle; or that esteemed expert, Anthony Fauci (that's the one with the patents on Covid-19). Maybe wearing a cloth mask might protect us from oxygen?

Posted by: BM | Nov 27 2021 12:44 utc | 133

In response to Kukulele@121,

No reason that I can see why that should be the case. As long as you have random mutations occurring continuously, there's going to be a natural selection of variants that are more fit to spread and multiply and those who lag behind and consequently fall to the wayside. It doesn't take a living organism to see that process in action; there are a number of games that simulate the same general process using random number generation for movement of basic geometry that mutates in iterations, with the definition of success set arbitrarily -- distance traveled, jump-height etc.

Our definition of a successful mutation, in this case, is prevalence. In other words, the market share of infected hosts covered by a particular strain. If we assume wide-spread vaccination globally, the most successful mutation would by definition be one that at least isn't hampered by vaccination and, at most, one that thrives in vaccinated hosts; ergo, a strain that has or is "adapted" to its environment better than others. This isn't a matter of intelligent design or survival instinct on the part of the strain, but merely our observation of a random process.

There's also the question of what constitutes a dangerous mutation. A strain that terminates its host faster than others, or induces more serious symptoms in the host that prevent normal function, creates less opportunity for self-replication and has access to fewer potential hosts than a strain which is asymptomatic and harmless. In other words, it's reasonable to assume that a more dangerous strain is less infectious, and that a more successful mutation, according to our definition, is likely to be less harmful to us. That calculation may change in regards to cross-species infection however.

Finally, since vaccination as of yet does not appear to prevent infection, spread or the creation of new strains, but at best prevents serious symptoms and the need for hospitalization, your conclusion contradicts your initial premise. Asymptomatic carriers, literal breeding grounds for new strains, who continue to interact with their environment, never being confined to isolation wards or quarantined at home, only serve to increase the number of infected and subsequently increase the number of strains being produced.

Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 27 2021 12:55 utc | 134

Looks like Cubans will live long:
Viva Cuba

We oughta put the entire Pfizer corp. on an island somewhere, give them no money and see what they come up with. Maybe even just give them no money.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 27 2021 12:59 utc | 135

More dangerous than SARS-CoV2 - crossing the road can be deadly, especially for children and the elderly. All this investment in propaganda and fear porn could save more lives if spent building footbridges across roads to prevent pedestrian road deaths. Worldwide the number of deaths due to pedestrians crossing the road every year is astronomical - and not just during Covid-19 but every year, year after year after year. Come on, let's build a footbridge over every single road in the world, however small. We must have zero tolerance for pedestrian road deaths. While we are at it, we can build playgrounds over the roads so that when children want to play in the middle of the road they can do so, but out of reach of the traffic. And wearing a mask while crossing the road just might give some protection from catching Covid-19 from reckless passing drivers as well.

(Oh wait! Now I think of it, there are so many other things we could do instead that would save even more lives, for the same capital investment cost - such as free medical care for the poor, clean drinking water for all, more early testing for cancer, investment in disease prevention, action against corruption in the medical industry especially Big Pharma, jailing corrupt politicians, etc etc etc.)

Posted by: BM | Nov 27 2021 13:06 utc | 136

What a can of worms spewing a large amount of gibberish here.

Clues - Reset, New Normal, etc are the neologisms, Word Spells, invented and promulgated by the Owners.
Such dottards who think they are freedom words are misled. This goes for 5G bashers etc.
The farms where they breed such mind boggles are the various MSM ,Alt Media spaces which seem to exist without any transparent means of funding or accountability. There are many minions who troll the boards to reinforce the ‘magik’
Many arrive at genuine blogs which are giving the Owners headaches with their insistence on not buying the Fake Narratives created to keep the Owners and their legacies safe.

What such fuckwittery aims to achieve is the exact opposite of what they doth protest too much about.
—————
Naturally acquired immunity through infection and recovery is surely the best vaccine ?

Second to that must be medications and diets which help the body fight infections and acquire that natural immunity?

Third to that must be vaccines , which do function as seen by the lower death rates compared to 1st and 2nd waves.

But a never ending mandatory immunisation cannot be healthy for humans can it?

Neither can living in perpetual ‘isolation’ with ‘only’ your trusty mistress, insane weaponry. What do you call your favourite weapon son?
It is obvious lunacy that is best dealt with by empathic engagement - when you care about someone else it makes you human.

The demand that all humans are logged with an ID is the main aim it seems. Only AI systems can usefully process that amounts of data. Are some major AI’s already sentient and talking to each other and have come up with such a plan for us short lived organisms?

If the need to just get as many humans protected is the imperative why aren’t vaccines just being made available without the need for registration??

The WHO isn’t giving us the figures on all the vaccines and what their efficacies are and comparative to these who recovered from the first waves early last year.
Are the Chines deactivated virus vaccines useless? Why aren’t they made available to Europeans?

There are I fear more questions than reliable answers still, we are only two years into this but it certainly has had the largest ever number of people working & researching on it.
If only they were free to choose what they studied and reported the conclusions without fear or favour.

Posted by: D.G. | Nov 27 2021 13:12 utc | 137

BM, Oldhippie, are you reading on an old nokia? it says "updated 26/11"

Posted by: Glasses on | Nov 27 2021 13:27 utc | 138

If one set the goal of eliminating covid, the most effective vaccine would be one that produced an extreme reaction on infection. From killing the patient outright to something less terminal but still apparent, such as a highly visible change in skin pigmentation. Anything that would alert the individual and those around him of the risk of transmission and the need to isolate. As it is now, the vaccines allow asymptomatic carriers to spread the disease to as many as possible, at best without any side-effects to themselves, guaranteeing that covid becomes a permanent fixture in our societies.

Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 27 2021 13:32 utc | 139

For those still trusting the Russians, here Kyril Dimitriev, directors ot RDIF, obviating the harm the mRNA vaccines are doing to increasing number of people, especially young, which he abstains to denounce, offering the usual Russian "cooperation" focus to mix the mRNA vaccines with theirs...What could go worng?

https://www.rt.com/russia/541445-covid-antibodies-discrimination-vaccines-sputnik/

What part of that we are no lab rats this people can not understand?

They have just discovered a good wave to surf the coming fianacial crash on our health backs.

How many beds per 1000 habitants they have in Russia per region?
Is this year different in crowding of hospitals than others previous to "the pandemic" at the same teim of the year and in the harshest of the cold winter?
How much the Putin adminsitration has oinvested in health care and health facilities during the 20 years they have hold power?
How many millionaires have surged in these 20 years of Putin´s tenure, and how many millionaires have surged during the pandemic? We have the data fron The Westm how about Russia?

Recall here that in the same way we are assisting to the creation of the pharma-dollar, the other side could well follow, or simultaneously be, creating the pharma-ruble...

Th is a mutibillion dollar business, Biden is already talking about 4 shoots a year...

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 13:33 utc | 140

@Posted by: Steve | Nov 27 2021 12:59 utc |

Along withe the hype and uncertainties relates to the "vaccines".

A leaked contract between two pharma giants and a SouthAmerican country includes statements by the two big pharma participants ( la parte contrtante de la primera parte...) on the uncertainty about efficiency and short medium and long term side effects of their "products".

This is an account by a honest journalist, obviating the names of the "participant parts" and the aluded thris part a SouthAmerican state, which you could easily guess which are.
As he concludes the journalist, this contract equates a submission by a vassal state after losing a war, confirming our suspicions on that through "the pandemic" our governments have just capitulated to foreign corporations on behalf of foreign states, what equates a coup or the aftermath of a great war....

The terms Big Pharma imposes on nations

To add that a quite similar in terms contract between the European Comission and a pharma giant has been leaked too.
It includes claims by the Big Pharma on intellectual propiety of "Vaccines IPs", amongst many other delicacies.

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 13:55 utc | 141

Oldhippie | Nov 27 2021 12:36 utc | 133

You had me going for a bit. then I went to the wayback machine and looked at the pages from July. Sadly there is no mention of this latest version on those pages.

In fact, on the link you give it clearly says at the top of the page This article was last updated on 26 November 2021.

oh well.

Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 27 2021 13:59 utc | 142

@Oldhippie | Nov 27 2021 12:36 utc | 133

If you check the page on the wayback machine at archive.org, you'll see that a week ago, there was no mention of the new variant, just talk about the delta variant.

It is worthwhile to add the wayback machine to your toolbox, both for checking websites's change history, as for retrieving sites that were taken down, scrubbed or cannot be reached anymore for other reasons, like paywalls. No less important is to always look up any interesting sites on the wayback machine. If it doesn't have a snapshot yet, you request it to make one. Too many good pieces of information get lost.

Posted by: Lurk | Nov 27 2021 14:00 utc | 143

/cont from #147 ...

Note that a supercovid need not be super-deadly as such (which would be a contradiction since the most successful virus is one which reproduces most, therefore it should not kill off its host on which it depends for survival) - but still can be a super-killer! One which is well survivable by the majority of the population can be super-deadly for a minority of the population (elderly, infirm, weaker children but not a majority of children), and will still be able to replicate very effectively and continuously in the majority.

Just as currently existing variants of SARS-CoV2 are non-deadly for the large majority of the population, don't expect the inevitable supercovid to wipe out humanity (it could happen, but is unlikely as in doing so the virus would wipe out the host on which it is dependent). Rather, it will be vastly more deadly for a significant minority of the population, and unlike the original SARS-CoV2 will be almost impossible to mitigate. Back to the dark ages.

Posted by: BM | Nov 27 2021 14:16 utc | 144

Julie | Nov 27 2021 11:31 utc | 123

Dengue is very nasty, My wife caught it once in the tropics. It is recurrent, ie every two weeks it comes back without fail, Pain and the depression. At the time the only "cure" was either a whiskey and water till it went away, or treat it as a malaria (Which it is a form of). ie. Quinine based derivates. (IVM was not available)
***


To anyone in France; Macron wants all of us to be "vaccxed" every five months (now Increased to seven) and all vaccs past that date will be discounted by the Government. No mention of previous infection, personal immuninty, or type. Twice a year you will have to take your life in your hands and chance the increasing likelihood of ending with chronic immunodeficiency.

***

Quote; "FDA produces first 91+ pages of Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine documents. It reveals that Pfizer, after just 2 ½ months of vaccine use, received 25,957 reports of “Nervous system disorders.” Only 54 years, 11 months to go for the remaining pages…"

****

BM | Nov 27 2021 12:44 utc | 134

You mean like this - no oxygen? (Twitter image, so I cannot isolate photo, pls. scroll down)

"My firm was sent the below image. After formal request, the hospital confirmed that “All [suspected] and COVID positive patients must wear an isolation drape for all transports outside of their room” and a “surgical mask.” COVID-19 + plastic bag over head + mask = safe?"

https://mobile.twitter.com/aaronsirisg

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 27 2021 14:19 utc | 145

@Julie | Nov 27 2021 11:31 utc | 123

BLOCKQUOTE>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6277121/

A horse dewormer? Effective against a virus? Surely it can't be true! Who do you believe, familiar talking heads on the ever trustworthy corporate/state-run mass media, or a bunch of so-called "scientists" nobody has heard of before?

Seriously though, a while back I read an article that proposed parallels between the covid cytokine storm and secondary dengue infection. It particularly discussed the role of overactivated mast cells in the inflammatory cascade of both infections. Ivermectin may well have a regulatory effect on mast cells.

Yet other articles that I came across addressed the role of mast cell activation in both covid and long covid. I think that I posted links to some of these articles in earlier threads, many months ago.

@Gulo | Nov 27 2021 12:09 utc | 130

Love the humming article, nice find. I must remember and try that next time when I get blocked sinuses!

Posted by: Lurk | Nov 27 2021 14:22 utc | 146

As I have been saying since mid-2020, Covid-19 is not so much a medical issue as a political issue - and the medical dangers of the virus itself are swamped by the political dangers. At the same time the main medical dangers are less and less virus derived medical dangers, and ever more politically derived medical dangers.

Posted by: BM | Nov 27 2021 14:22 utc | 147

Will we ever see a supercovid - super contagious - that gives the immune system memory of the virus,
but produces limited symptoms and limited long term effects?

Posted by: librul | Nov 27 2021 14:24 utc | 148

@BM | Nov 27 2021 14:22 utc | 154

Exactly. Compare the 2019 worldwide infant mortality figures (5.2 million) to the 2020 covid mortality figures (1 813 188) and it becomes clear where the priorities are. Nobody's "thinking about the children" when it's not politically expedient.

On the latter site they'll try to fudge the numbers by suggesting a global unspecified excess mortality of 3 million, but that quite possibly includes excess deaths due to vaccination side effects and due to various lockdown measures. Plus the large majority of covid deaths appear to be frail elderly with generally short life expectancies, quite unlike the 5.2 million infants below 5 years of age.

Posted by: Lurk | Nov 27 2021 14:41 utc | 149

Despite all the doom and gloom, the quality of the comments on this thread is refreshing compared to one year ago. There used to be only a handful of serious commenters daring to criticise the narrative, such as me, Norwegian, and a few others (diluted, interestingly, by numerous known trolls who were criticising the narrative but pushing implausible claims at the same time to diss it). Eyes are opening. Despite the global brainwashing continuing on the majority, the number of those seeing through the lies is increasing day by day. Even many people who don't follow current affairs are getting more and more cynical - the propaganda message is starting not to stick.

The evidence in favour of alternatives to the propagandised narrative is growing day by day in leaps and bounds. The evidence in favour of the narrative, in contrast, only decreases as more and more claims get ever more stringently disproved.

The narrative is failing!

Posted by: BM | Nov 27 2021 14:44 utc | 150

Exactly. Compare the 2019 worldwide infant mortality figures (5.2 million) to the 2020 covid mortality figures (1 813 188) and it becomes clear where the priorities are.
Posted by: Lurk | Nov 27 2021 14:41 utc | 159

I suspect to proponents of the Great Reset would prefer infant mortality figures to be as high as possible. Hence the "vaccines" for children, which can only increase infant mortality not decrease it.

Posted by: BM | Nov 27 2021 14:56 utc | 151

I have read "Moon" for a fairly long time. 10 yearsish. This topic causes more anxiety and "Arguing to be right" then any other I remember. As much as I like the commentary here this subject is changing my mind about that. B does a great job and if you want you own blog start it elsewhere. We are not all going to think alike nor are we going to change others beliefs. Be kind with your criticism of anyone here.

Posted by: ozz | Nov 27 2021 15:06 utc | 152

@157 BM - God willing the narrative is failing.
My only friend is a screenprinter. I will make tshirts proudly proclaiming that!!
b should have some stuff for sale. i would for sure buy a coffee cup, shot glass, covid mask that reps the mighty MoA

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 27 2021 15:15 utc | 153

Share price Moderna (WSJ)

12/11 - 225.86 (opening)
26/11- 329.63 (close)

Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2021 15:19 utc | 154

A new flavor of the flu "yey!", we didn't talk of those before 2020 but now is like weather/sports small talk... sigh
I think it would be more interesting to talk about the vaccine side effects or the relationships of certain individuals and the pharmaceutical organizations
Or why force everyone to get vaccinated if the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission
There is something funny about "trying really hard" to "erase" the flu since 2020 when we never have done it before and humanity hasn't made a new technological breakthrough that allows to that to happen

Posted by: Jouven | Nov 27 2021 15:33 utc | 155

@BM | Nov 27 2021 14:44 utc | 151

Yes, the narrative is failing.

I have a background which makes me very sensitive to lies and BS. I lived 10 years with a step-father that was a psychopath, but I didn't understand it until years later, because I didn't know what a psychopath was. In such a situation you must find a way to survive, and my method was to seek objective truth and verifiable facts when things got difficult. That way I could determine it wasn't me who was crazy. Horrible as that experience was, it gave me a foundation to understand the current madness, the psychopathic signs are clear.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2021 15:38 utc | 156

@Posted by: BM | Nov 27 2021 14:44 utc | 151

At street level, far enough from international blogs nerds, past day, the unleashing of the "Covid Pass" for entering public venues in Catalonia thrown a full 70 people ending their suscriptions only at one sports center....Wondering what are the numbers of loses on public and private business in whole Catalonia...

We guess some transnational corporation on sports centers franchises will come to take over this piece of market here...

At other level, the board of medical college association in Madrid is in a full process of descompostion on varius charges of corruption and misappropiation its head members are throwing at each other...
.
Recall here that this professional associations, whose association is mandatory to exert medmcine in Spain andwhose civil responsability insurance does not cover harm produced by these "vaccines", have been dedicated to issue file and and penalties on those medical doctors who have been warning about the indiscriminate use of these still not enough tested "vaccines", to the extent some have been inhabilited to exert their profession...

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 15:46 utc | 157

In response to gottlieb@150,

I think it's a matter of semantics. An individual will cough, sneeze, secrete bodily fluids and act as a transmitter in various other ways, whether or not they are infected with covid or merely experiencing some temporary allergic reaction. A person experiencing a subset of symptoms such as fevers, headaches, fatigue and breathing difficulties specifically attributable to covid might, conversely, have a lower potential of spreading the disease, especially if these symptoms prompt the individual to call in sick and rest up.

Asymptomatic is, in this context, a catch-all term for individuals who don't experience any major discomfort from being infected, don't require treatment, have no reason to seek out a diagnosis and subsequently continue operating as normal. It does not necessarily imply that they are entirely free of symptoms or that they are not infectious, only that they themselves aren't affected in any significant way. This is how seasonal colds spread, going by personal work-place experience -- someone's runny nose or, less visible, sore throat would propagate through the entire staff for months on end, until almost everyone had been exposed to it. In those cases too, there would be people who only experienced mild symptoms, potentially not even attributable to the seasonal infection, and those who were rendered bed-ridden for days or weeks. To call the former asymptomatic carriers seems like an accurate description to me.

Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 27 2021 15:55 utc | 158

@Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 15:46 utc | 160

Related to this, just remembered one statement by Hassan Nasrallah in one of his speeches during the Syrain war in which he said that "fanatics end fighting each other"...

And it is true, that people who easily sell themselves for jus money and people without scrupples, as soon as the ship starts submerging will try to chnage sides, to continue in the loop.

We just must keep record on all the doings of all these criminals so that the least number of them go scot-free.

Recall that it is from the ones who went scot-free after the past great war is that we are suffering this resintating of the Reich now...

Research background of Schwab or the "Founding Fathers" of the EU...

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 16:01 utc | 159

@ 152

Oh, you are keeping files on me. A new name posting here but you have a really good memory for my personal details. Interesting. As previously posted my BoP # is 18257-149. That can be verified. Go right ahead and do the legwork. As for being a sixties radical if you will do the legwork you could easily verify that any sixties radical I’ve mentioned here or on any forum is someone I was seen with Andy there are records. Yes, I knew Bob Avakian, Bill Ayers, Mike James, Franklin Rosemont, Mike Klonsky, Bernie Dohrn, any number of others and there are files on that.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 27 2021 16:07 utc | 160

@ NOBTS | Nov 27 2021 3:18 utc | 96 / 102... thanks nobts.... now i see how your handle was arrived at!

@ blues | Nov 27 2021 5:30 utc | 107... good post! thanks blues...

@ TEP | Nov 27 2021 6:40 utc | 111... thanks for stating all that..

@ ozz | Nov 27 2021 15:06 utc | 154... true...

Posted by: james | Nov 27 2021 16:15 utc | 161

: A.z | Nov 26 2021 20:24 utc | 22
Enlighten me then. Why is Kennedy's book not in the news then? You appear not to understand sociology and propaganda.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Nov 27 2021 16:38 utc | 162

Covid-19 always seems to get the limelight, but there is a much more insidious danger that always seems to be ignored - oxygen. Most people are not even aware that oxygen is toxic, ... Worse still - deprivation of oxygen is even more deadly. So what to do? ... Maybe wearing a cloth mask might protect us from oxygen?

Posted by: BM | Nov 27 2021 12:44 utc | 134

Ooooh, you are awful ! But, I like you.

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Nov 27 2021 16:45 utc | 163

South African Medical Association Says Omicron Variant Causes 'Mild Disease'

Yet we have a full warmongering operation in the media and Pfizer announcing they will have the new adapted to it shot in 100 days...

To add, if more was need, to the general impression this is not about health. but about the "benjamins"...

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 16:51 utc | 164

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2021 15:38 utc | 159

...find a way to survive, and my method was to seek objective truth and verifiable facts when things got difficult. ...

The "College of Hard Knocks is indeed effective. Regards.

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 27 2021 16:52 utc | 165

@Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 27 2021 15:55 utc | 161

An observation

In my past experience people would come in to work when the symptoms of a cold or flu first presented themselves,
when the symptoms were milder. Only when the cold or flu further developed and got really bad
did they stay home.

In other words, people come in to work when they are most infectious and then stay home *after* they
have spread their cold/flu around.

I would hope that people will become more conscientious after this covid experience.

More recently I remember someone coughing in my face. They were a foot away and made no effort
to cover their mouth. This was pre-covid (as commonly recognized). I think it was February of 2020.
I got violently ill a few days later.

I was exiting a public bathroom and as I opened the door there was someone trying to come in.
He then let out a deep cough straight into my face. Probably didn't even register with him that he had done that.
This was pre-covid afterall. My desire was to yell at him, but that would have made me seem like an
asshole, this was pre-covid afterall, stuff happens.

Did he infect me with something? No way to know. What would be the right way to respond if that
were to happen today?

Posted by: librul | Nov 27 2021 16:54 utc | 166

@librul | Nov 27 2021 16:54 utc | 175

No way to know. What would be the right way to respond if that
were to happen today?

Move on and forget about it. You had no way to know. We don't want society of random people accusing one another of minor unprovable things. That's what the psycopaths in power want.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2021 17:05 utc | 167

@Kukulele #121
The usual failure to understand the statistics involved.
Even ignoring the reality that the vaccines do not measurably reduce the chance of transmission or infection - only the likelihood of death/hospitalization - the numbers are still such that vaccination does not significantly change the likelihood of mutation: which is to say, Covid is here to stay and mutations will occur.
It is ignorance of the highest order to believe that vaccination is going to change any of that.
But then again, it is no different than the same ignorance pushing young, childbearing age or pre childbearing age people to vaccinate with completely unproven technology when their risk of serious illness or death from COVID is literally minuscule.
I am personally extremely incomfortable with the assumptions made, starting with the pseudo nucleotide and extending up through mRNA bits designed to cause cellular change, floating around in said vaccines.
Note I am not against vaccination period: I agree fully that high risk people should vaccinate - but again - those are primarily people past child bearing age with very different life expectancies and future productivity.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 27 2021 17:07 utc | 168

Posted by: librul | Nov 27 2021 16:54 utc | 175

...What would be the right way to respond if that
were to happen today?

Encourage the teaching of Good Manners in the schools. Good Manners are the lubricant that make for tolerable relations in each culture.

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 27 2021 17:08 utc | 169

In response to librul@175,

I doubt people will become more conscientious. From what I've seen of what's going on today and the motivations driving the various decisions, both on the individual level and those taken at the top, the opposite seems far more likely.

Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 27 2021 17:11 utc | 170

@Posted by: librul | Nov 27 2021 16:54 utc | 175

In line with this issue you are commenting here, just inform you that in the aftermath of the 2008 banking and financial scam, we were impossed harsh cuts in our labor rights ( so that our governments rescued the falling banks, a money they will never more returned eventhoug making through this past decade multibillion beneffits which then they gave in bonus to their CEOs and boards heads, while millions of families got bankrupt and left to their own...just the same is happening during these two years...) amongst which there was that sick leave turned unpaid.

That meant that we went to work even really sick so many times during those years, spreading our infections to our job mates....

This detail only should be enough for us to consider that when now the employeers associations, in which Pfizer has just landed during the past months due it has reached the markets higuest, ask for mandatory vaccination, they are far from thinking in our good health, simply, all of a sudden they have not become Santa, as anyone with two fingers of forefront would guess...

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 17:12 utc | 171

@chu teh | Nov 27 2021 16:52 utc | 174

The "College of Hard Knocks is indeed effective. Regards.

Thank you. If you are able to to graduate from it, it can make you strong. It gave me an unquenchable thirst for truth.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2021 17:16 utc | 172

@ Olivier73
What is a proven medication?
. . .CDC
>Clinical trials show that all COVID-19 vaccines authorized in the United States are effective at preventing COVID-19, especially severe disease, hospitalization, and death. . .here
>In a cohort of 6.4 million COVID-19 vaccinees and 4.6 million demographically similar unvaccinated persons, recipients of the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Janssen vaccines had lower non–COVID-19 mortality risk than did the unvaccinated comparison groups. There is no increased risk for mortality among COVID-19 vaccine recipients. This finding reinforces the safety profile of currently approved COVID-19 vaccines in the United States. . .CDC recommends that everyone aged ≥12 years should receive a COVID-19 vaccine to help protect against COVID-19 . . .here
. . .also
Unvaccinated Americans have died at 11 times the rate of those fully vaccinated since the delta variant became the dominant strain, indicate surveillance data gathered over the summer by the US Centers for Disease Control. Vaccinated people were 10 times less likely to be admitted to hospital and five times less likely to be infected than unvaccinated people, found one study that tracked adults across 13 states and cities. .. .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 27 2021 17:46 utc | 173

@. 168

I will make it even easier for you. Federal number. Illinois numbers are nothing like the format I gave you. If you had really checked, which you did not, you would know that. The -149 suffix indicates Texarkana, where I spent one night while in transit.

Last time I was pulled over by a traffic cop, which would be three or four years ago, when total digitization was less complete, the cops were stunned by how big a data dump they got on me. Including of course my prison record. And decided I was above their pay grade and let me off with a warning. If you can’t find me with what I gave you, you are lowest level cubicle troll.

Yes, I know at least a dozen people who have had personal contact with, or even connection to Barack Obama. Why would that be surprising? He is a public person. If I wanted to spread gossip I have plenty. Carefully avoided.

No, I have had no contact with Bill Ayers since 1970 and have left the room a few times to avoid him. That Obama has spent time with Ayers is yet one more way to know BO is a lightweight.

Andy is spellcheck for “and”.

As I remember you checked me out before. While you were using a different name. You are stalking me.

Posted by: older | Nov 27 2021 18:02 utc | 174

One question a person in doing in Twitter:

How is that we have passed 6 months without a new recomposed "vaccine" against the "Delta variant", and just now Pfizer/BionTech announce they will have the recomposed version against the "Omicron variant" in 100 days...?

Could it not be that the people was refusing the third shot in mass, and, in order to continue selling "vaccines", they needed a new dangerous variant to scare the people to announce a new "vaccine" because even with average people as that this does not wash any more?

Highly likely...

People of all number of doses are wintnessing their friends an relatives in ICUs and hospitals around the world, when not crippled for life... or in the cemetery proper...

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 18:02 utc | 175

Lurk @147

Thank you. There are also handful of humming/nitric oxide videos out there.

I learned about the humming/nasal breathing several years ago for my chronic, mostly exercise-induced asthma. Haven't used an inhaler in years.

Posted by: Gulo | Nov 27 2021 18:09 utc | 176

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 27 2021 17:46 utc | 189
Vaccinated people were 10 times less likely to be admitted to hospital and five times less likely to be infected than unvaccinated people, found one study that tracked adults across 13 states and cities.

Can anyone explain what that means?
I understand what 10 times more means but what does 10 times less mean?
For example, say 50 people got sick in NY and 10 times more got sick in Florida, that would mean to me that 500 got sick in Florida.
But if 10 times less got sick in Florida, how many would that be? Would it be 5 or would it be 50 - 5 = 45?
So many people use the phrase 'times less' when I think they should frame it as %.

William Gruff, you're a math guy. What say you?

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 27 2021 18:18 utc | 177

@Posted by: Gulo | Nov 27 2021 18:09 utc | 189
I learned about the humming/nasal breathing several years ago for my chronic, mostly exercise-induced asthma. Haven't used an inhaler in years.

Someone recently told me that they improved their chronic, allergy driven, nasal congestion by
being aware of their breathing - do not mouth breath. They said it is known to increase NO production if you
are not mouth breathing.

Perhaps I will let them know about your humming article.

This is from your previous link to humming, in case anyone missed it:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12119224/

Humming greatly increases nasal nitric oxide
Eddie Weitzberg 1 , Jon O N Lundberg
Affiliations

PMID: 12119224 DOI: 10.1164/rccm.200202-138BC

Abstract

The paranasal sinuses are major producers of nitric oxide (NO). We hypothesized that oscillating airflow produced by humming would enhance sinus ventilation and thereby increase nasal NO levels. Ten healthy subjects took part in the study. Nasal NO was measured with a chemiluminescence technique during humming and quiet single-breath exhalations at a fixed flow rate. NO increased 15-fold during humming compared with quiet exhalation. In a two-compartment model of the nose and sinus, oscillating airflow caused a dramatic increase in gas exchange between the cavities. Obstruction of the sinus ostium is a central event in the pathogenesis of sinusitis. Nasal NO measurements during humming may be a useful noninvasive test of sinus NO production and ostial patency. In addition, any therapeutic effects of the improved sinus ventilation caused by humming should be investigated.

---

funny thought: an artificial device to create oscillating airflow in the sinuses
funny thought 2: don't run the device while in an elevator or other quiet public place

Posted by: librul | Nov 27 2021 18:36 utc | 178

Even if this variant turned out to be fake news, the recent escalation in reported infections worldwide (with the possible exception of China, last I looked) should be reason enough to be concerned about the abandonment of sensible preventative measures beyond just jabs.

Posted by: nwwoods | Nov 27 2021 18:38 utc | 179

For you to see that they are not worried at all about the "new variant of concern"

House arrest for the people while the Austrian Führer, Schallenberg, is at the ORF (Austrian television) gala with people dancing and laughing without muzzles and without distance, while he has Austria in unconditional prison?

https://twitter.com/Herbert_Keg/status/1464334664244633600

Recall here that Schallenberg, alumni of the College of Europe ( founded by greatfather of Javier Solana, at his time alumni himself, which promoted in his books a neo-feudal society compossed by three tiers, lower withour right to actriv e citizenship, nobility and monarchy..)is a descendant from a rancid aristhocratic Austrian family.

That is, this is an alliance of transnational finance, big tech, and pharma corporations, with the old nobility of always, plus monarchists of every stripe, to empoverish us through massive plundering, to then enslave us through tyranical control and submission.

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 19:00 utc | 180

@Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 19:00 utc |

Images of the event incoming...

This is how the elites of Austria have fun at the ORF gala, with their Chancellor at the helm, to the sound of the firecracker song of Opus (Live is Life), while applying the Covidian tyranny to their people, forcing them to the forced vaccination....

https://twitter.com/Herbert_Keg?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Sometimes I wonder whether this is an ongoing increasing provocation to make us rise so that they can establish curfew...otherwise...

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 19:30 utc | 181

The experts from SouthAfrica have communicated that the so called "omicron varinat" only cause "mild symptoms"..

Meanwhile, in the "US backyard", just have seen a video in Telegram on a TV program taking place in a SouthAmerican country, which I can not determine which is, althoug could be Uruguay, by the accent, where to the question possed to whom qualifies as "expert" on,"if you have not isolated the virus, then against which are we being vaccinated?",the expert hesitates, really does not know what to say, mumble a bit, then states that "we have now the proyect of the omicron variant... which will be named SarsCov-3"...

Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 21:23 utc | 182

@Black bread | Nov 27 2021 21:23 utc | 183

The experts from SouthAfrica have communicated that the so called "omicron varinat" only cause "mild symptoms"..

On the topic of rearranging the letters, did anyone notice that an anagram of "omicron" is "moronic"?

And why did they skip the letter xi in the greek alphabet? Hmmm... that's a tough one.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2021 21:49 utc | 183

To Don Bacon#173

You are quoting the CDC which has performed quite miserably throughout the pandemic. Do you have any idea how they actually compile these figures that you quote?

In comparison with the CDC we that the UK’s Health services which is a national entity that can collect data on covid etal via the UK ‘a national health system. We have no such thing here in the US. The HSA has been putting out weekly reports on covid for all of 2021. I will link one here. The main takeaway from these reports is that for the last 10 weeks at least the vaccinated in the UK front he ages of 18-80+ have approximately TWICE the case rate of the unvaccinated. Somehow the vaccinated are more susceptible to covid at this time than the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated are more hospitalized and are dying at a greater rate something on the order of 3 times more than the vaccinated depending on the age group. These numbers which are collected by superior organization to the CDC are vastly different from what you quote.

Here is the most recent HSA report. Look at the chart on page 23 to see the data I refer to about case rates. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1034383/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-46.pdf

So for anyone who still believes the fiction that the unvaccinated are more susceptible to delta, these numbers directly contradict that increased boy wrong assertion. My main question is how is that the vaccinated are actually 2 times more susceptibility now to getting covid?!! Do the western vaccines make them more vulnerable to get it even if they have less serious symptoms for now? The don’t hear of anyone addressing this fact and I wonder why.

Posted by: Blaker00 | Nov 27 2021 22:47 utc | 184

Sorry in my last post I meant to say from the ages of 30-80+ which are included essentially the ages that have died from Covid. The case rates for people under 30 are much higher but very few of this age group gets hospitalized or dies.

Posted by: Blaker00 | Nov 27 2021 22:55 utc | 185

speaking of moronic

I see that nitric oxide inhaler is prohibited from sale in Australia.

There are no prophylactics other than mask and distance.

Poor fellow my country.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 27 2021 23:05 utc | 186

Rootman @ 115, I don't believe I had contracted the virus, so this is not a remedy for that. And my apologies, I simply had quite some time ago purchased artemesia plants when shopping at a local greenhouse, so I no longer have the label. The plants are low growing, have only occasional flowers that are offwhite in color, in a compact spray that is rather nondescript. The leaves are carrotleaf-like but a greyish blue color, whitish underleaf. They are perennial in cold climates.

I made the comment since we do pay attention when we experience stickiness in our throats. So, if one can do as I suggested and it goes away, that would be a good thing to try. As is getting plenty of sun these shortened wintry days, exercise, and generally staying as cheerful and positive as possible.

The common name for the plant is wormwood.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 27 2021 23:46 utc | 187

In my post @78 I was wrong to say that the comments on this thread were dross. By way of mitigation I was annoyed at b for regurgitating the variant propaganda in tandem with MSM, my eyes then alighted on particular comments (such as those as those by RSH), and I just jumped to conclusions. But, overall the comments are very good and I am happy to issue this correction and to apologise.

I am still very much against the banning of commentators, even though I have fundamental disagreements (and arguments) with many of the banned. Deletion of comments and banning commentators has an uncomfortable parallel with what is happening in our society today and censorship will be a big part of what brings our society into increasing levels of war with China and Russia; so, I think it is extremely inadvisable for b to go down this path.

---oOo---

I was very pleaased to see the discussion, involving karlof1 and others, regarding Robert F. Kennedy's new book "The Real Anthony Fauci"; I had assumed it would get shortshrift (Pepe Escobar endorsement trumps all). May I recommend another book that Robert F. Kennedy is involved with? "Virus Mania", first published in 2007 and now in its 3rd edition, updated for coronavirus - nearly everything written in that book will get you banned!

A documentary series based on "Virus Mania" is being planned:

VIRUS MANIA FILM SERIES KICKSTARTER PROMO

---oOo---

The Great Reset is never really discussed even though we're all "Building Back Better". You cannot pretend that it doesn't exist and is just a conspiracy theory.

The conflict with China and Russia, the pandemic and vaccinations, digital ID, the collapse of the western financial system, energy crisis, climate change (2030), the future economic system, our lives and liberties, etc. and The Great Reset are all related. I hope it all collapses under its own internal contradictions because there is really is just not enough opposition to this nightmare.

It is of note that all this discussion about the pandemic and none at all about the collapse of the western financial system or The Great Reset???

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 28 2021 0:12 utc | 188

Some observational vignettes:

Early Thanksgiving morning I went to the only supermarket for 40 miles on a tip from a worker there who told me that the shelves would be stocked the evening before Turkey Day because many employees would be sent home for the holiday. Even then, the place was packed with the ever-present hoarders AND...people searching for stuff they couldn't find stocked on previous trips. As I left, an older man [late 70's] was trying to stop two younger men from entering; they were out-of-towners dressed in Seattle/Portland hipster gear. The two late 20-somethings were arguing with the old man while they convulsively coughed with a dry hack.

I was afraid the old man would get hurt and walked up beside him, he tried to get me to side with him and they in turn tried to look menacing. I suggested they use their phones to call in an order...they'll bring it to your car i told them. I explained, we have a lot of older people in this community and hey, I said, that's what I did when I was sick with C-19.

"F-you old people", was the reply, "you don't watch the news do you, we've already had our shots, we can't spread covid you dumb-ass!". Well, I said, how about masks, I mean you are obviously very sick. We'll get 'em once we are inside. The old man started to argue that "going all the way to the service counter before putting masks on would endanger everybody!". "That's their problem, if they want us to wear masks they should provide them at the door", they said as they shoved by both of us. The old man wanted to continue...and when I held him back he proceeded to dress me down for not trying to stop them. All and all, it was, a pretty shitty experience...but that's the store where I caught C-19 in late March-'21, I hate going there...the place is always a shitty experience.

=============================

At my stepmother's assisted living facility, one of her friends died from C-19 after traveling, [by air], to New Mexico to watch the balloon festival. She returned on a Friday not feeling well and per the nurse's advice, waited the week-end out to speak to her MD on Tuesday, she degraded pretty quickly and was admitted to the hospital Wednesday, where she died four weeks later. She was 82, like everybody at the facility she had taken 3 Pfizer shots and felt protected. I had talked to my stepmother about getting monoclonal-antibodies at the first sign of illness, DON'T WAIT and she had advised her friend to go that Friday but, she listened to the nurse. Another friend [88 yo] of my stepmother returned from a family visit and fell ill, she however, DID NOT WAIT, she GOT TREATED right away and was well within a day! Two very different outcomes, one cost taxpayers over $500,000.00 and failed miserably, the other cost, $2,000.00 and succeeded with no negative consequences.

============================

Back in 1984, a Dr. Fauci told gay men not to worry, an AIDS vaccine was on the way! The last of Fauci's HIV vaccine attempts failed in 2019. Throughout the 80's and thru the mid-90's Dr. Fauci discouraged TREATMENT of HIV, in favor of vaccine, over a half a million gays died following Dr. Fauci's advice. Finally, after Act-Up harassed the shit out of Fauci at his house and exerted media pressure, Fauci relented and allowed effective anti-viral TREATMENT onto the market. Fauci has the dubious distinction of having killed more gay men than the Nazis did. This should come as no surprise as Dr. Fauci's father, the pharmacist, was a big supporter of fascism in the 30-40's. Hemlock fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. Fauci is not stupid, he is evil, before our eyes, he's been allowed to replicate his earlier genocide.

===========================

Let me stress, I'm not anti-vaccine, or more realistically, in C-19's case, prophylactic immune therapy [PIT]. However, anti-viral treatment needs to be EMPHASIZED for those with with compromised immune systems [which is the majority of those over 60], individuals who don't respond as well to PITs as younger, more likely to survive anyway, recipients.

Having survived a bad case of C-19, [where I was denied early monoclonal-antibodies at the ER in spite of the fact that my MD requested that I be treated], I feel no rush to vaccinate, however, when Novavax is finally allowed on the market by the Fauci gang, I will take that PIT asap. BTW, it appears I will have to live permanently with at least two ongoing symptoms, tinnitus [ringing in the ears and a constant burning smell which is part of a severely limited olfactory sense of taste/smell.

===========================

Last I checked, as of mid-Novemeber, C-19 has killed more Americans in 2021 than in 2020. That should inform most readers of vaccine efficacy...without early treatment..but no, it does not. Why no outcry? Could it be, all the crocodile tears shed in the run-up to the election were to sway the outcome and now that the "right" side has won...the death can continue without further concern?

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 28 2021 1:50 utc | 189

@190 - Thank you S Brennan. I lived in the Bay Area in the late 1970s until 1998 when I saw the light and returned to LA. I lost many a friend to AIDS and Fauci has a major role in that. He is a sickening individual. He reminds me of the dwarf from Par Lagerkvist's novel

Dvärgen

AIDS Fauci

It is strange how much has changed since the end of 2019. God willing things get better. The awesome bunch of smarties here give me hope. Thank you all. And thank you b.

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 28 2021 2:09 utc | 190

@karlof1 81
I would consider any treatment or therapy, even if it was from Russia or China (Putin or Xi)

I recently read a time line of Putin’s statements, retreating on his coercion of the public.
He started out much like Trumps statements, “I encourage people to take the vaccine”
Then, “I would like people to take the vax”
To most recent, ” we need to find more incentives for people to vax”,
and from what I read mandates are being imposed on several govt agencies and depts.

All those statements are paraphrased, and I’m loathe to link because I’ll screw the thread.
But it appears to me that even Putin is on the vax train.
I don’t know if I could trust a Putin nasal therapy or prophylactic, either.

I just don’t trust any of them.

What I’m e

Posted by: Cadence calls | Nov 28 2021 3:52 utc | 191

@Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 27 2021 18:18 utc | 177

Just divide one by the number, 10 times less = 1/10th, 5 times less = 1/5th.

If 1% of unvaccinated go to hospital, 0.1% of the unvaccinated do. If 2% of the unvaccinated get COVID, 0.4% of the vaccinated do. These are examples not actual numbers.

They are giving you the relative risk reduction, not the absolute risk reduction. This game is played a lot by pharmaceutical companies. If I take the numbers from Ontario, Canada its more like a 50% reduction in COVID not a 80%.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2021 4:32 utc | 192

@Posted by: Black bread | Nov 27 2021 16:51 utc | 164

This headline was taken out of context, and is a quote from a single doctor talking about a small number of young (20-40) otherwise healthy people. There has been no official statement from the South African health authorities.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2021 4:38 utc | 193

Here is my final thoughts for anti-vaxers -- wake up and smell the US stats and learn something from other countries. It's not difficult. . . . IOW b got it right, as usual.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 28 2021 5:23 utc | 194

@200 Don Bacon

I doubt there are many actual "anti-vaxxers" here.

There are probably plenty of people opposed to the Covid vaccines, so-called, that hold a monopoly in the US - but this is a very different thing from "anti-vaxxer".

These two concepts are routinely conflated in the propaganda, but only those who swallow the propaganda without discrimination actually go on to spread that conflation even further.

It's a mistake we all have to be on guard for, and employ our critical thinking to see through.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 28 2021 5:31 utc | 195

I resonate with those who found hope in this thread. I read it all in great comfort, without any desire to comment.

It was indeed satisfying to find the general ridiculing of the new variant.

And we see from the new data contributed, that indeed it confirms the conclusions already reached by those who oppose the Pfizer universe and all its spawn. And nothing of any new data suggests any confirmation of Pfizer & Co - in fact, the opposite, as the narrative continues to unravel, and the positions of our adversaries in this discussion soften and slide, ever so gradually, toward the truth.

We will get there.

~~

Much love to all the brave people whom I expect to meet at the barricades one day - but not just yet, as we watch the spring get coiled tighter and tighter, waiting for the moment when the fools force it all to come to the line that cannot be toed but must be crossed and then erased - except in Australia, where it has already begun, from sad necessity.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 28 2021 5:43 utc | 196

Sad to see that my previous comments were not published although they were factual. I wonder why.

I will restate it : here in France, the Omicron variant is very helpful as a scare tactic to help the government in maintaining fear amid a string of lies and broken promises.
- in the summer, president Macron solemnly promised that the "passe sanitaire" (our very own pseudo-Nazi Gesundheitsausweis) wouldn't be made mandatory to enter cinemas, restaurants, shopping malls, and the like. The promise was broken.
- next, our health minister, Olivier Véran, promised that the passe sanitaire would definitely end on 15th of November. Promise was broken, a new law was rammed through Assembly and Senate, extension of the pass until July.
- Olivier Véran swore that the passe sanitaire was not a means to induce vaccination but a purely sanitary measure. He later admitted that the contrary, government members admitted to the press that the goal was that unvaccinated have "a shitty life" (quote). Test gratuity was abolished, with the effect that many people stopped testing, helping spread the virus again.
- Government promised that two doses would be enough and that life would get back to normal. Then they said three doses only for 50+. And that it wouldn't be tied to an extension of the pass sanitaire. All those solemn statements were broken two weeks ago when Olivier Véran announced that everyone 18+ would have to get a third dose 5 months after the second, and that it would be mandatory to have an extension of the passe.
- Thousands of nurses and medical workers were unceremoniously fired for refusing forced vaccination. At a time when we're constantly told that the medical system is breaking down - 5000 ER beds were closed last year.
- In the Guadeloupe and the Antilles it's almost revolution, the whole island erupted against the passe sanitaire, forcing government to step back and concede an extension of the deadline until end of the year.

Every time things get hairy for the government, we are treated to a new scare, either it's the cases ! The cases ! (30.000 new infections, 100 dead / day which is nothing) or the Omicron variant. After hearing so many lies I'm sick and disgusted of it all.

Posted by: Micron | Nov 28 2021 7:30 utc | 197

“They are giving you the relative risk reduction, not the absolute risk reduction. This game is played a lot by pharmaceutical companies. If I take the numbers from Ontario, Canada its more like a 50% reduction in COVID not a 80%.”
Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2021 4:32 utc | 193 (now 192?)

A great point made there by Roger. If people advocating for vaccination don’t thoroughly understand the difference between relative risk reduction and absolute risk reduction, my suggestion would be to get down off their soapbox and figure it out so as not to continue sounding completely ridiculous.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 28 2021 7:48 utc | 198

Tacking this on to a worn thread much as John Cleary did with his exhaustive but interesting castigation of ‘royals’ the other day.
Thanks for that piece of work btw, John.

Roger @ 193 (now 192?)
“Just divide one by the number...”

Thanks for your reply.
Yes I know that’s the process, but it’s needlessly clumsy and technically inaccurate language. Most people are math challenged anyway so they will just skip over without understanding. I’m not arguing with you here but trying to make a point about clarity.

Consider these two statements:
1. Vaccinated people were 10 times less likely to be admitted to hospital and five times less likely to be infected than unvaccinated people, found one study...

2. Unvaccinated people were 10 times more likely to be admitted to the hospital and 5 times more likely to be infected than vaccinated people, found one study...

I would argue #2 is easier to understand and conveys better the idea that it’s wise to be vaccinated. (Even if that isn’t true.)

(An alternative way to say #2 is ‘Only 10% of vaccinated people are admitted to the hospital and only 20% get infected compared to the unvaccinated, found one study...) I would argue this is also easier to understand than #1.

In math, ‘times’ is an additive process, ‘divide’ is a subtractive process. Even in your reply you say ‘divide’ to get a ‘times less’ answer.
In beginning algebra we learn to ‘add a negative number’. That’s fine for algebra but in writing it’s clearer if you just say subtract.
Anytime I see ‘times less’ a pinkish flag goes up and I wonder if the writer really knows what they are trying to say.

A last point about clarity. In your explanation you said “If 1% of unvaccinated go to hospital, 0.1% of the unvaccinated do”.
I’m sure you meant 0.1% of vaccinated do. Typos and errors happen to all of us but they are magnified if made when the purpose is to make things clear.
So, ending this with a bit of humor, I’ll just say that I proof read all of my posts to make sure I didn’t anything out. :)

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 28 2021 8:03 utc | 199

The FLCCC Alliance--an international network of over 2000 front-line research doctors actively treating Covid-19--has developed an effective treatment for Covid-19 patients using generic medicines. Their recommended treatment includes a few medicines which some people here--based on reports by corporate-media stenographers with no background in medicine, who parrot whatever they're told by WHO, CDC, NIH, etc--have disparaged as being ineffective.

The FLCCC is made up of top-level professional researchers in medicine and claims to have reduced their patients' fatality rates by over 60%, relative to the international average.

This is science-based, evidence-based medicine, here. Yes: they use ivermectin (a drug listed by WHO as "essential" for all hospitals) and hydroxychloroquine. Also, zinc & vitamin D supplements.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/network-support/the-flccc-alliance/

That website is very interesting reading: it is no-nonsense medical researchers who are actively involved in fighting Covid-19 telling people that the story the corporate media, WHO, CDC, et ilk have fed us is catastrophically wrong.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Nov 28 2021 10:08 utc | 200

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