Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 04, 2021

Russiagate's Steele Dossier - Paid For By Clinton - Had Clinton Operative As Key Source

Russiagate is again coming back to haunt its authors.

The New York Times reports:

Federal authorities on Thursday arrested an analyst who in 2016 gathered leads about possible links between Donald J. Trump and Russia for what turned out to be Democratic-funded opposition research, according to people familiar with the matter.

The arrest of the analyst, Igor Danchenko, is part of the special counsel inquiry led by John H. Durham, who was appointed by the Trump administration to scrutinize the Russia investigation for any wrongdoing, the people said.

Mr. Danchenko, was the primary researcher of the so-called Steele dossier, a compendium of rumors and unproven assertions suggesting that Mr. Trump and his 2016 campaign were compromised by and conspiring with Russian intelligence officials in Moscow’s covert operation to help him defeat Hillary Clinton.

The people familiar with the matter spoke on condition of anonymity because the indictment of Mr. Danchenko had yet to be unsealed. A spokesman for Mr. Durham did not respond to a request for comment.

The indictment has now been unsealed and it is quite a bombshell.

Danchenko had made several claims about Trump and Russia for which his only source were not some Russian contacts but the public relations executive Chuck Dolan with whom he also worked on a different project. Next to his PR job at Kglobal the PR-executive Chuck Dolan is also a Democratic party operative with deep relations to the Clintons:

President Bill Clinton appointed Chuck to two four-year terms as the vice-chairman of the United States Advisory Commission on Public Diplomacy. This seven-member commission is a bipartisan panel established by the Congress to advise the President, the Secretary of State, and the Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs on press and information activities of U.S. missions abroad, and the government’s international radio and television operations.

During the 2008 Democratic nomination process, Chuck served as an advisor to Senator Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign in Iowa and New Hampshire. He was also a senior communications consultant for Senator John Kerry’s presidential campaign in 2004. He was state chairman of the Virginia Clinton-Gore Campaigns in 1992 and 1996, and a member of President Clinton’s Presidential Exploratory Committee. Prior to that, he was executive director of the Democratic Governors’ Association, where he supported the election and re-election of Democratic governors in all fifty states.

Before joining kglobal, Chuck was a Senior Vice President at Ketchum, one of the world’s largest public relations firms. He also worked as a Senior Vice President at the government relations firm Cassidy and Associates, where he coordinated joint public affairs projects for universities involving the U.S. House and Senate as well as the White House and Federal Agencies.

Dolan also had many contacts with Russian officials including with the Kremlin's press office lead.

To recap:

The 2016 Clinton campaign paid the legal firm Perkins Coie to find dirt about Donald Trump. A Perkins Coie lawyer hired Fusion GPS, a shady 'research' firm run by a former Wall Street Journal reporter. Fusion GPS hired the British private spy company Orbis to find (or makeup) the Trump dirt it needed. The 'former' British MI6 spy Christopher Steele of Orbis was tasked with developing a dossier about Trump. Steele hired Igor Danchenko, a Russian living in the United States, to come up with Trump-Russiagate stories. Danchenko's problem was that he had no sources. But he also worked for Chuck Dolan, a Clinton operative who was also working to hold a business conference in Moscow and knew some Kremlin related people.

(Fiona Hill, a later witness during the Trump impeachment, had introduced Danchenko to Dolan.)

Clinton operative Dolan fed Danchenko several stories which Danchenko then dramatized and sent to Steele. Steele revised those stories and put them into his 'dossier'. This was then peddled by Fusion GPS and Steele to the media and the FBI. Some of the tales Dolan fed to Danchenko were simply taken from media reports.

In October 2016 The FBI used the Steele dossier to get a wiretap application to snoop on the Trump campaign. It continued to use the Steele dossier to renew its snooping application even when it already knew that the dossier was nothing but nonsense.

One example cited in the indictment of Danchenko is that Chuck Dolan talked with a hotel manager in Moscow where his planned business conference were to be held. The hotel manager told Dolan that Trump had once slept in their presidential suite. Dolan later told this to Danchenko. Danchenko then tells Steele about it. Either Dolan, Danchenko or Steele add prostitutes and a 'pee tape' to the 'Trump in a Russian hotel' story. Steele writes that up and ships it to Fusion GPS from where it gets peddled throughout Washington DC.

The FBI knew all this in early 2017 when it talked to Danchenko. But Danchenko denied that he had the stories from Chuck Dolan and insisted that he had original Russian sources.


bigger

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Danchenko lied to the FBI on several points and occasion. That is the reason why he is now being indicted.

But the bigger revelation is that Danchenko source, if we are to believe the indictment, was some innocent PR executive who also happened to be a big Clinton fan.

That however may not be the whole story. The Democratic party operative and good friend of the Clintons did know that Danchenko was also working for Christopher Steele whom the Clinton campaign paid indirectly to write up a dirty dossier about Trump.

It does not require much fantasy to assume that Chuck Dolan was in on the whole Clinton campaign plot to make up dirty rumors about Trump and Russia and that he intentionally fed vague or made up Trump-Russia stuff to Danchenko to get it into the Steele dossier and from there into the media.

When did Hillary know all this?

The indictment of Danchenko is exonerating another figure in the Russiagate affair. Sergei Millian is a former president of the Russian-American Chamber of Commerce who had been associated with Donald Trump. Danchenko had claimed that Millian had been one of his sources for several 'reports' in the Steele dossier. The indictment clearly states that this was a lie. Millian, who had been taking much flak during the whole Russiagate affair, is now fully exonerated.

The whole story again puts a bad light onto the FBI. The transcript excerpt above makes it obvious that the FBI knew by mid 2017 that Danchenko was lying about his sources and that the dossier was pure nonsense. But the FBI held back on that because its leadership was anti-Trump. It took four years and two special investigations for this to come out. The FBI, special counsel Mueller or even the current special counsel Durham could have revealed all this much earlier.

But that would have exonerated not only Sergei Millian but also Donald Trump.

Posted by b on November 4, 2021 at 18:16 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Ergo, the three letter agencies, the "intelligence" community, are all actively being used for political purposes against the interests of large swathes of the American voting public. While the FBI has always been a blunt political tool for use by the executive branch (or on its own under J. Edgar Hoover), Americans now have to worry about open psychological warfare and spying and this will only intensify the higher up the political food chain one gets (voter -> organizer -> union leader -> candidate for low electoral office -> etc.).

Thanks for this evening update.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 4 2021 18:43 utc | 1

This whole Russiagate affair reveals more and more the "born to rule" mindset among the Democrats, and particularly among those loyal to Hillary Clinton, to the extent that they would willingly and without hesitation sabotage Trump's right to campaign for the Presidency and then his Presidency itself. In the process, the Democrats' disregard for anything resembling democracy and their own reputation and that of the FBI becomes apparent. Of course the FBI willingly went along with the conspiracy which says much about that organisation's bias and loyalty to Clinton. The whole affair reeks of a grubby and dysfunctional political culture that has existed for decades.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 4 2021 18:49 utc | 2

Thank you b for this good lead to a rational discussion of the general western tactic of 'fake news' evolution, cultivation, and propagation. The west has been doing that for ages now. More notably (and noticeably by astute observers such as MOA barflies) since the unveiling of 'white helmet' shenanigans. They did it on Tibet issues, on Xinjiang issues, on Hong Kong issues, on Venezuela issues, on SCS issues, on 'fuck EU' Ukraine issues, on every issues involving Middle East.....They lied, they cheat, they killed, they destroyed. Now we also see that they steal oil, without turning in a red face even after being caught. So, thank you for providing this lead so I can use it to vent some steam here; actually the story itself is something I have suspected all along.

But your lead does put substance and credibility to my suspicions. Just think: a few thousand bucks can lure idiots such as Jimmy Lai or Guido to spill garbage out of their upper end of their asses, then the MSM moves in to hype, to plant ideas into innocent minds, and to create hate against their victims so that resorting to forceful intervention becomes justified. They call this the protection of freedom and democracy for all humanity. Oh, puleeeeeze!!!!!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 4 2021 18:59 utc | 3

"After the Vietnam war caused the American people to develop negativity towards US involvement in more war, fear of how that would affect the foreign policy decisions of political leaders led to the development of a bureaucracy for “perception management.” It is used to control the desires of the population to be in agreement with the plans of the elites. The details of how that propaganda bureau was created and then developed, was written by the famous Robert Parry in an article: The Victory of ‘Perception Management’.

We can see that propaganda bureaucracy in action when they were recently exposed by the details coming out on the origin of Russiagate:

After it seemed that Trump stood a chance to win the election in 2016, the pro-war propaganda bureau jumped into action to stop him. Trump had campaigned strongly on an anti-war message, he also berated the very idea of America as a hegemonic imperial state. The military industrial complex and the big banks and big investors, all make big money off of expanding and maintaining the political and economic hegemony of the US government.

Getting the public to support the hegemonic status quo of the US government and the means to maintain it (war and massive support for it’s means), meant from 2016 onward to a section of elites the urgent need of driving as many people as possible into a state of abject paranoia towards Trump and his supporters.

The propagandists wanted people to believe that anything Trump supports is by definition irrational and stupid, and therefore dangerous. That was the plan because Trump said he was against war and against the military being used for out of control spending and profit. Russiagate was the answer to the Trump problem." From Tulsi Gabbard Has Not Changed — Her Critics Have

Posted by: El | Nov 4 2021 19:12 utc | 4

This may be off topic, but I read that ISIS is growing larger and stronger within Afghanistan since NATO left, with more and more former soldiers (trained and funded by Empire, of course) joining and perpetuating terror. Sorry I didn't scan English language news outlets for these news and thus can't provide links; instead I read Chinese language newspaper based in Hong Kong on this piece.

So the west's strategy is clear: replay of Iraqi ISIS to kill, destroy, and subdue another nation through proxy. This is not different in principle to hiring liars to say things about Russia intervening American elections, then pay MSM to spread venom for causing harm to their intended victim--Russia.

Seeing what ISIS did in Iraq, I feel sorry for Afghanistan.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 4 2021 19:16 utc | 5

Typical practice for the Feds is that the first guy indicted in public then rats out higher up the chain. This guy looks like a classic for that, caught dead to rights on something he can't beat but could deal on, and knowing the people higher up with whom he dealt, and not the sort of guy to take the fall for them (not a hard case like G. Gordon Liddy or Roger Stone).

This could get a lot more interesting. They certainly deserve it.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Nov 4 2021 19:49 utc | 6

Open sesame! Let the can of worms burst and let the blowbacks begin... or maybe not.

Durham could have said it earlier. Mueller never was going to, the old soak, who had been the Mr Wolf cleaner upper at the top for decades. In deep covering everything up way back to the 60’s. Hell, Barr could have and indeed the Donald... but they didn’t.

But all strings go back to the ultimate powers who hold all the Kompromat on everyone - the strings, the hands up the puppets - the fake fight, a Punch wand Judy show - to get the same outcomes?

Is there a honest broker in any of this? Is Durham? Has he had to eat shit and build a case that couldn’t be stopped? Is that why? Is he allowed to live to do any real damage? Are the witnesses?

I stopped holding my breath on this a year ago when the mad old colonels shite showed his true cards.

Posted by: D.G. | Nov 4 2021 19:55 utc | 7

the whole shitshow runs on rumor, slander, innuendo, etc.

HRC could safely crow about Russia whether it was b.s. or not. It was not so easy for Trump to turn around and start crowing about how tight HRC is with the Saudi royal family. but they both wear as a badge of honor how far they are up Israel's butt crack, how anti-China, anti-Iran, anti-VZ, anti-Cuba, etc., they are.

like in Plato's Apology (and Hamlet, for that matter) a groundwork of suspicion has been worked and seeded and tilled for decades, over a century now with anti-Russia calumny in the US and West. the troops still mount on Russia's border.

people on the nominal left and right will bitch about the surveillance state but then, on the "left", won't notice that the security state missed all these supposed connections between Trump and Putin. do they really think that if there was anything to this "trump is a commie stooge" nonsense he could ever have made it into the WH?

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 4 2021 19:57 utc | 8

Yeah yeah and twenty years from now the NYT will print what all of us here have known for 5 years. Whoopty-do!
Too little, too late. The damage has been done.

Posted by: Patrick Armstrong | Nov 4 2021 19:58 utc | 9

I have a little time at this moment, so I translated an Oriental Daily Editorial to post here for anyone interested in the oriental view.

On the premise of sanctioning Iranian oil export, USN used war ship to grab Iranian oil tanker, causing Iraan's Islamic Guard to act and drove off the USN war ship. This happened in Barain territory where the US 6th fleet is based. Iran's military might is doubltlessly less formidable than the Empire's, and this time the actor is the Islamic Guard, not the formal Iranian military so that one can't claim they represent the Iranian government. Yet, the Empire chose to retreat instead of counter attack. This brought forth a new reality: The Empire spread its military forces and political hegemoy around the globe to do whatever it wants, yet it was hesitant to bash Iran even knowingly enjoying military advantages. The Empire started the challenge (the robbery) and was in the advantageous position, but a militia drove it off, the advanced weaponry systems proved useless because the Empire was afraid to use them. It proves on the battle ground, morale trumps weaponry advantages. The Biden regime lacks the courage to politically and militarily use their advantage.

The Iran example shows that if one is not afraid of sacrifices, the American MIC is powerless to advance. They can make use of money and conspiracy to attack or assassinate, but they dare not openly raise illegitimate war under full public view. This is different from the W. Bush era, faux excuses cannot win over the world nor it's own people. Unless Trump and the far right in America grab power again and push for fascist rule, the world has seen through American hypocricy and feebleness. The world knows to counter American challenges now: Russia has done so; China is beginning to do so; Turkey is disobeying; Israel/Korea are not blindly following any more; Germany/France are establishing their own positions, etc. America's weakness grew out of its own policy and political failures, so other nations are no longer subdued under its threats. Countering America exposes its weakness for all to see, and American hegemony is losing luster. More failures to come, its international standing will weaken further, and the domino effect will result in a true multipolar world. This is a new world status quo. This is China's opportunity to establish its new international strategy.

Sorry b, I just violated your urging to cut postings short. But I have no alternative to doing the translation. BTW, this is an amateurish piece of translation.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 4 2021 20:03 utc | 10

The Saker website has a video of the tanker event - all pretty strange..

Posted by: JoeC100 | Nov 4 2021 20:12 utc | 11

Oriental Voice @5 - Agree.

Posted by: spudski | Nov 4 2021 20:21 utc | 12

@Jen | 2

Yes, “the FBI willingly went along with … a grubby and dysfunctional political culture” but the Repubs also show “disregard for anything resembling democracy and their own reputation and that of the FBI.” The FBI is afraid of its political appointees, and appears not to investigate political corruption in either party.

I have sent them (and DOJ, HSI, IRS) extensive evidence for years of proven theft of $120 million of conservation funds by Florida Repub politicians, and they refuse to communicate at all, under Repub or Dem administrations. They would be irrelevant but for having the tools for financial investigation. Clearly their career aims far exceed any desire to enforce the law.

Posted by: Sam F | Nov 4 2021 20:47 utc | 13

Call me cynical, but i have little faith anything investigated in Washington will reach any 'insiders' aside from an expendable lawyer or even more expendable foreigners.

The sheer fact Durham has taken so long to pursue the bleeding obvious (an indictment based on statements and facts already known for 4-5 years.. what new info was that dependent on exactly?) and is now of no consequence politically for the aggrieved parties (Trump et al.).

It looks more like a Durham reputation-saving prosecution, carefully dressed as a faux revenge, perhaps supported by some Republicans to throw some dirt onto the Democrats, timed well enough to win the mid-terms, but not thorough enough to shake the foundations of the carefully crafted illusion of bipartisanship in the ruling two-faced charade, de facto one-party oligarchy, that rules the USA.

Posted by: Et Tu | Nov 4 2021 20:56 utc | 14

I'm amazed Durham is been allowed or was willing to go even this far. We know American elites are above the law, and Hillary Clinton more than just about anybody but Bill. There's reams of evidence Bill has been CIA his entire adult life, and considering Hillary's incredibly easy rise to power despite her many scandals, she seems a shoe-in for CIA too. And CIA pulls most of the strings in the US/Western media. The evidence of criminality is obvious now, but we've seen that so many times and the malefactors have skated. I expect the same here.

Posted by: NoOneYouKnow | Nov 4 2021 21:09 utc | 15

Were The People correct to assault Washington DC last January 6 given what we knew then and know now? Yes, absolutely as there's clearly a Cabal working only for themselves and against the interests of the USA and they've colluded with at least one foreign nation to alter the US government--Far bigger crimes than anything Julian Assange is accused of. IMO, it's absolutely clear neither the Ds or Rs can provide Law & Order as they're both greatly afoul of it and deserve to be ostracized from power at all levels until 2050 at the earliest. We the People and the Nation don't need such people whatsoever, those who have an empty set when it comes to ethics and morality and really know nothing of governance.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 4 2021 21:28 utc | 16

"Steele hired Igor Danchenko, a Russian living in the United States, to come up with Trump-Russiagate stories."

Nice try. Danchenko is a Ukranian name. He is a Ukranian. Calling him Russian neatly skips over the Biden-Ukraine corruption connection.

From July 2020:

"As it turned out, the classified materials about the Russian intervention were provided by little-known political scientist Igor Danchenko, who was born in Ukraine but has long lived and worked in Washington."

Posted by: Arfur Mo | Nov 4 2021 22:08 utc | 17

The problem is that we no longer have a democracy, but a loose oligarchy or dictatorship of the rich, a form of economic tyranny. To restore democracy, it must be stabilized by:
1. Amendments to protect elections and mass media debate from economic power;
2. Restriction of executive power; checks and balances within federal branches;
3. Investigation and purging of our corrupt judiciary and Congress;
4. Monitoring of government officials for corruption;
5. Regulating business so that oligarchic bullies cannot control economic power;
6. Re-purposing 80% of our MIC to foreign aid, later making that a distinct agency;
7. Reforming our secret agencies to end secret political wars and operations.

Only when we have the power to do that, can we dump AUMFs, join the ICC, dump our law to attack the Hague etc., re-negotiate NATO as strictly defensive, limit foreign wars to UN auspices, repudiate deals with warmonger nations, end our secret wars, and thereby eliminate US warmongering.
Only then can literature, media, education, and public interaction encourage moral community, and only then can public debate find the moral policies that honor the rights of all persons and seek justice for all.

The Means of Reform:
1. Executive overreach to dismiss the corrupt and hold new elections requires massive replacement of agency top levels by a well organized political coalition;
2. Organize new parties that truly represent voters and form majority coalitions;
3. Use small groups, false names, no email, and eliminate possible informers;
4. Organize strikes, riots, and visible demonstrations to demand action;
5. Infiltrate military/intel/police/nat guard and deny these to oligarchy in strikes and riots;
6. Blow the whistle on corruption wherever it is found, but hide your identity;

Individual Actions To Recommend:
1. Never watch mass media or vote Rep or Dem, and advise others to do so;
2. Let people know where you stand, but not coworkers, relatives, or broad social groups;
3. Watch candidate funding and dump any with MIC or zionist sympathies;
4. Boycott military companies and BDS Israel; carefully denounce MIC and zionists;
5. Refuse to take mortgages or keep large sums in banks or investments;
6. Support foreign rejection of US products, currency, and NATO.

Do Not Expect Pacifism to Remove Tyranny:
1. Restoring democracy requires elimination of oligarchy funding of mass media and elections, which cannot be done peacefully because those are the tools of democracy.
2. The judiciary has no role at all in reform: it is almost 100 percent corrupt fake patriots who deny rights or law beyond their party and identity group;
3. Political demonstrations are no longer covered by mass media;
4. Political commentary groups are educational families but do not achieve the results;
5. Functioning movements do not end tyranny without a political and a militant wing;
6. The US is run by tyrants, who are persuaded only in their language of force and fear: organized attacks on the rich/media/parties/officials, infiltration of agencies to deny enforcement, riots, and strikes: those are the only first signs of progress;

Action, Not Identity Squabbles:
1. Alternative groups must create a substitute power, not an alternative social milieu;
2. Neutral luxury issues like climate change, maternity leaves, gun control, and gay bathrooms are mass media squabbles to divide reformers and maintain oligarchy;
3. Lives are more important: ignore luxury issues until we have restored democracy and eliminated war and the tyranny of the rich;
4. Action requires courage; but without political Action there is no progress;
5. Do your duty as a citizen while limiting the personal cost, otherwise all is lost for your future and your children; otherwise you consent to the enslavement of all humanity.
6. The challenge is to speak the language of force without losing moral perspective.

US democracy may not be restored by political action. It may be a slow train wreck much celebrated in the future. But surprises happen, and we must be prepared to sweep in and do all that can be done. This is the good fight, and humanity will win at last.

Posted by: Blaise P | Nov 4 2021 23:00 utc | 18

blaise p @ 17 .. AND et AT 14..

The problem is <=those the government serves are very happy with the government.. these beneficiaries of the government are the oligarch, their bankers, and their monopoly powered corporations.. and none give a damn about your needs.

Any chance of changing the government from its current posture or amending its activities or constitution or enforcing against them penalties for violations, fraud or whatever depends solely upon the Oligarch,.

What is needed is a second government with the power to audit, indite, convict and punish the non constitutional use or management of government. Bowing to the will or wish of an Oligarch or a monopoly powered corporation by a government official and or keeping secrets from taxpayers should carry the death penalty upon conviction in the court of the 2nd government. .

Regan, Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden demonstrate no change to happen until the American citizens get tired of the situation.

Posted by: snake | Nov 4 2021 23:24 utc | 19

Many understand that the "fear Russia" & "fear China" meme is total BS, but, as far as Trump is concerned, had he not asked, on live TV, " Russia are you listening"?,for help regarding HRC's e-mails, the whole matter would have been lessened.

https://www.vox.com/2020/9/29/21493319/trump-russia-if-youre-listening-comments-rewrite-history

Posted by: vetinLA | Nov 4 2021 23:29 utc | 20

OV @ 10; Thanks for the translation.

snake @ 18 said;

"Regan, Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden demonstrate no change to happen until the American citizens get tired of the situation."

ABSOLUTELY!!

Posted by: vetinLA | Nov 4 2021 23:48 utc | 21

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 4 2021 18:43 utc | 1

Ergo, the three letter agencies, the "intelligence" community, are all actively being used for political purposes against the interests of large swathes of the American voting public.
_______________________________________________________

You are implying that the Steele Dossier was used to influence the voters in 2016.
If that were true then the Steele Dossier would have been released as an "October surprise" in 2016 and sunk trump, but it wasn't.

The timing of the release of the Steele Dossier suggests it purpose was not to influence voters. Cogitate on that.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 5 2021 0:07 utc | 22

Let me see if I can guess how our local lagomorph will spin FUD on our host's excellent revelatory logic:

"But nooo!!!! The FBI/establishment deliberately persecuted Trump with bogus charges in order to inflame the 'deplorables' so they would vote the Democrats out! That makes the Democrats, who really are poopy heads, the real anti-establishment group that you should vote for while waiting for direct democracy to spring forth fully formed from the forehead of Pete Butt-gig! We know this is true because Henry Kissinger said something or another and because the Democrats wouldn't lose unless they wanted to!"

Did I cover everything there?

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2021 0:19 utc | 23

as it's more than likely that Skripal also helped compile this dossier for Steele he should be asked to provide testimony also - perhaps this will come in the fullness of time

Posted by: Terence Reeves-Smyth | Nov 5 2021 0:32 utc | 24

Bunny's Mini-Me: "But the Steele Dossier wasn't released in time! It couldn't have been meant to influence the elections!"

What the establishment spox lite tries to gloss over is that the Steele Dossier was never meant to be "released" at all. It was supposed to remain a secret document from which lurid rumors could be, and were, "leaked" to damage Trump. It was never sturdy enough to stand up to full exposure. Once Clinton was safely installed in the White House then the whole dossier and related investigations would magnanimously be dropped. Cue Clinton channeling Obama: "That's history and it's all over now. We don't need to go there. The American people saw through my opponent's corruption and lies and voted the right way. It's time to forget about my opponent's crimes and look forward!"

The only reason the Steele Dossier couldn't be dropped and forgotten about was because Trump won. The fact that Trump's victory forced an obviously fraudulent establishment-fabricated document to the fore is one of the pieces of proof that Trump was absolutely not expected to win.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2021 0:36 utc | 25

Well duh. The insult-your-intelligence Nigerian-scam level of fraud was painfully obvious from the evening the Steele stuff was released. What they should investigate and explain in detail is how the media was manipulated to swallow it.

Posted by: ptb | Nov 5 2021 0:53 utc | 26

thanks b... as the stomach turns.... i guess these folks get paid better then ew..

wg @ 22.. you sure are having fun with that "lagomorph" term!

Posted by: james | Nov 5 2021 1:08 utc | 27

Can't wait when this will finally reach Great American Patriot Number One, i.e. James Comey.

Posted by: bjd | Nov 5 2021 1:27 utc | 28

FREE Hillary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you mean she's not in jail?

Posted by: WTFUD | Nov 5 2021 1:37 utc | 29

Looks like your typical imperial high politics intrigue. When the elites clash for their petty interests, it is common for entire governmental/State institutions to be dragged into the imbroglio and be put into motion against their will.

Unless I'm missing something big, this is just an embarrassing moment for the American Empire.

Posted by: vk | Nov 5 2021 1:56 utc | 30

Why did HRC needed this as she was "sure" to win?

To distract from her own mess up with a mail server computer in he home closet that had a lot of official mail on it illegally. The FBI, CIA and NSA gave her the soft ball while striking out outsider Trump. There was plenty more messed up with DNC IT, at their headquarters and also at the House of Representatives by Imran Awan and family.

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 5 2021 2:16 utc | 31

What they should investigate and explain in detail is how the media was manipulated to swallow it.

Posted by: ptb | Nov 5 2021 0:53 utc | 25

"Manipulated?"

Posted by: mena | Nov 5 2021 2:18 utc | 32

b, only mentioning this because it's highlighted in bold. "Did Hillary knew all this?" should read "Did Hillary know all this?". please erase this when you read it. xx

Posted by: annie | Nov 5 2021 2:45 utc | 33

thanks for the translation #10! i whole heartedly agree.

another good one b. and right in line with my (earlier) assessment. continually you say it best.

Posted by: annie | Nov 5 2021 3:09 utc | 34

@ Oriental Voice | Nov 4 2021 20:03 utc | 10 i too would like to thank you for making that available to us here... thanks..

Posted by: james | Nov 5 2021 3:54 utc | 35

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 5 2021 2:16 utc | 30

Why did HRC needed this as she was "sure" to win?

To distract from her own mess up with a mail server computer in he home closet that had a lot of official mail on it illegally. The FBI, CIA and NSA gave her the soft ball while striking out outsider Trump. There was plenty more messed up with DNC IT, at their headquarters and also at the House of Representatives by Imran Awan and family.

---

EXACTLY! I'll further add that the FBI and, likely, CIA were involved in helping to derail Sanders' campaign, and it's <- This that is why the media was so involved in everything (the spooks were pulling strings on the ventriloquists from out of sight).

"They have six-ways-to-Sunday" statement by Schumer is going to come back to haunt the lot of them. I detest Trump, but what he was unable to do when in office I'm thinking that he's, in a way, reaching out from the grave to swat these pieces of...

Posted by: Seer | Nov 5 2021 4:22 utc | 36

antonym and seer

Thank you, exactly. On Sanders though, he faked it and clearly had no intention of taking the only fight that mattered in his and the people's future right to the wire. Cowardly betrayal just like the #fraudsquad.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2021 4:29 utc | 37

@17 Blaise P

You deserve a Thank You for that. It is in fact a program, a platform, an ethos, a discipline, a path forward - a Way. All the things that go into new political forces.

It forced me to look at my own dulled sense of initiative, beaten down by all the usual evil crap.

Is this what the ground is feeling?

Many thanks! Keep it coming.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 5 2021 4:32 utc | 38

@26 james

That's the devil icon sitting on his one shoulder. I like the angel on his other shoulder a lot better @24.

~~

@22

William, William, William, please don't start that divisive stuff again - this could be a useful thread.

Solidarity is all that matters. Everything that isn't solidarity gets easily left behind, not carried along under the wagon wheels.

Please.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 5 2021 4:39 utc | 39

vetinLA@20; james@34:

Regarding my post @10, glad you guys like it. I did it just to provide a glimpse of how the Empire is being viewed in places where western people had little opportunity of knowing. And I did it in a hurry so it may not have done the original author justice as I'm not proficient at translation. Nevertheless, the general trend of people's view of how the United State is being governed is deteriorating, at faster pace of late.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 5 2021 5:00 utc | 40

Posted by: jinn | Nov 5 2021 0:07 utc | 21

You totally missed the point. I never said that the Steele Dossier was used to convince voters of anything, per the exact quote you excerpted. What I said was that large swathes of the American voting public's desires are being pyoped out of existence by the inward looking FBI and now CIA and NSA. Granted not a revolutionary or even revelatory statement to most around here, but at least try to cogitate on what was actually written before responding. No offense taken, btw. And it's a text-only medium, so I'm also obliged to tell you that I'm not intending any offense, necessarily, either.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 5 2021 5:08 utc | 41

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2021 0:36 utc | 24

Thanks, exactly right.

I don't think you're spot on re: jackrabbit though. I keep looking for any hidden messages from him that we should vote Democrat and I don't see them.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 5 2021 5:10 utc | 42

I detest Trump, but what he was unable to do when in office I'm thinking that he's, in a way, reaching out from the grave to swat these pieces of...

Posted by: Seer | Nov 5 2021 4:22 utc | 35

Was Trump buried? Not according to

By Seth McLaughlin - The Washington Times - Tuesday, November 2, 2021
Former President Trump is offering supporters “NEW Trump Gift Wrapping Paper” in exchange for a $35 donation to his political operation.
“President Trump really wants YOU to have this wrapping paper FIRST, Friend, so make sure to get yours TODAY before it’s sold out,” reads a fundraising email sent this week to prospective donors. “Please donate at least $35 RIGHT NOW and we’ll send you a roll of our Trump Gift Wrapping Paper.”
The wrapping paper features Mr. Trump in a Santa Claus cap, along with the “Save America” logo.

-----

Frankly, I lack gift wrapping needs, if it were a roll of toilet paper, I could splurge...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 5 2021 5:31 utc | 43

One expected it of Hillary. The only surprise would be that they are investigating and disclosing. At this rate she will be deceased before investigation gets to her.

More curious is the hysterical performance by Shiff and the show investigation by Muller - apparently having a reputation for sham investigations. Honestly, the U.S. legal system is corrupt.

Speaking of shams, Fauci on the ropes. He has the position of an expert and yet seems uninformed regard any science which does not support his agenda and has admitted to lying where he felt it was necessary.

Posted by: jared | Nov 5 2021 5:43 utc | 44

To me, this just reads like more Wag The Dog type of Left/Right infotainment.

Yes, Hillary is a war criminal and should be prosecuted for her global and national perfidy. And so is Obama, Bush the W and back to Columbus according to some.

So we are in a reality movie that has us never discussing how we are organized as a species but instead become inculcated to have faith in the existing structure, in spite of it being obviously inequitable and unjust.

What makes me sad is that Trump is held up as the victim when the whole production is a sham, including the Liberace grifter Trump.

How much energy will be spent on this obfuscation of our underlying (pun intended) SHIT SHOW? Will any go to jail? Not likely, but think of the media ratings and sales potential along the way..../snark

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 5 2021 5:45 utc | 45

Posted by: mena | Nov 5 2021 2:18 utc | 31
regards Post by: ptb | Nov 5 2021 0:53 utc | 25
What they should investigate and explain in detail is how the media was manipulated to swallow it.
response was manipulated?

William Gruff @ 24 obviously fraudulent establishment-fabricated document <=content developed for the private Oligarchic owned personally directed media to distribute?
<= Your words expose the existence of content development factories.
These factories are multinational London, USA, Russia, France, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, Denmark, Sweden, and many more place located.

<==These content factories are not institutions of the state, they are private party establishments or quasi private party establishments, some may be under contract from one or more institutions of the state, but still these factories are private party many in Universities.

These content factories produce content for various scenarios and narratives. Narratives that may or may not ever be distributed on the privately owned, corporate supported media outlets.

Note: advertising spent in support of media, is a tax deductible item, but it is not a part of the cost of goods sold deduction on the US tax return. Instead advertising contributions made to support the private media, is a part of the composition of the selling price. Because the selling price includes the private corporate gift to the media, its actual cost is extracted from the pockets of the nation state governed victims who buy the corporate produced good or service.


Blaise P @ 17
The problem is that we no longer have a democracy, but a loose oligarchy or dictatorship of the rich, a form of economic tyranny. To restore democracy, it must be stabilized by:

Please we never did.. unless you are one of the elected you would not be in the WE.. within the meaning of WE the People <=from the Preamble. When is the first time or the last time that the ptb asked your opinion on something? or asked you to help them steal more from that which remains.

The only democracy Americans ever enjoyed began in 1776 and ended in 1788. The constitution, which replaced the Articles of Confederation, changed the USA from a bottom up states rights democracy to a top-down federalism. Under federalism no voice from the bottom should again be allowed to count in one damn thing. Read that constitution and see if you can find where your voice counts?

Posted by: snake | Nov 5 2021 6:04 utc | 46

It looks to me like the pursuit of Hillary operatives is actually the result of a civil war within the Democratic Party. The Biden wing wants to destroy the Clinton wing and do a complete takeover of the party.

The reason being, Biden does not want any dissident wings of the Democratic party ganging up to replace him as the candidate in 2024. Biden really, really wants to keep his job, but the rest of the party keeps acting like he's just a seat warmer for the real candidate.

Because of Biden's recent screw ups, there is a lot of thought among Democratic party elders that they need to replace him before his antics damage the Party's viability. Biden is aware of this and he's trying to hamstring his opposition.

Posted by: Anon | Nov 5 2021 6:25 utc | 47

...
What they should investigate and explain in detail is how the media was manipulated to swallow it.
Posted by: ptb | Nov 5 2021 0:53 utc | 25

We already know that AmeriKKKa's Jewed-up media is controlled by Jews and Zionists. Back in September 2019, Elon Musk composed a Tweet headlined "Who do you think owns the Press? Hello."

If you Google: Elon Musk tweet: "Who do you think owns the Press? Hello."
the search results include a link to the original tweet which takes the form of a 12-panel graphic, in glorious technicolor, naming the top 3 bigwigs at CBS, abc, NBC, CNN, NYT, WaPo, HufPo, Guardian, BBC, Buzzfeed, and the top 2 bigwigs at Economist and Vox.

Cohen-cidentally all of them are Jews and most are Zionists. So zero manipulation required.

Zionists have been leading the Colonial Christians around by their noses and wallets, like sub-human cattle, since "Israel" was invented - circa 1900AD.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 5 2021 6:33 utc | 48

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 5 2021 5:31 utc | 42

They DID effectively bury his first term: he's no longer in office, is he? Although not germane to the point I was making, I do believe that he's quite likely to be running again (if Russagate is blown apart, which I'm hoping it will be- not for the benefit for Trump, but as punishment to all the crooks that took part, media included, then the race would be his to lose).

Posted by: Seer | Nov 5 2021 8:16 utc | 49

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2021 4:29 utc | 36

Sanders may have not expected to win in 2016, but, unlike 2020, I believe that he was keeping his foot full-on the accelerator: pretty similar to Trump, who also didn't likely figure he'd win but just kept hard on it. In 2020 Sanders was probably expecting to get torpedoed again: whether he was sheep-herding the Left [as Chris Hedges says- and I'll put my money on Hedges], that MAY have been going on; might have been that the CIA et al told him that there was no way they'd allow him to ascend. Yes, I get that Sanders has sold out. I had no coin on him: I didn't vote/support him, either election cycle. I care more about the deep state being taken down: Trump's pitches, in the 2016 cycle, had a lot of resonance regarding confronting the deep state (I didn't vote or support him either- for either cycle).

Posted by: Seer | Nov 5 2021 8:28 utc | 50

Another example of automatically blaming "Russia" for X. Y, Z by a British "security" expert: the new 5 part audio series "The Hack That Changed the World" https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0b1r7tn

This one is about who "stole" the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia's climate data which they didn't want to divulge to non buddies but on which the whole Catastrophic Climate Change was built. Funnily these scientists were vacillating between Russia or Western Oil MNCs, while in reality it was probably a climate expert. The producer professionally diverts to the work emails that were hacked too and "forgets" about the vital -flawed -data files. These show too how these tax paid scientists discuss how to circumvent FIOA requests.

So for the Anglosphere forget "the hog ate my home work" and just say "the Russians did it" and you're home free.

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 5 2021 10:41 utc | 51

I clearly recall that Hillary made a speech in the summer of 2016 in which it was first mentioned that Trump had ties with Russia and that Russia was influencing the American election process. It was only a short time later that the Steele dossier came to light and the FBI lied to FISA and the Trump surveillance and smear campaign began. Hillary started it and handed the project off to her associates to implement so she would have plausible deniability and escape any future legal complications.

Posted by: Victor | Nov 5 2021 11:22 utc | 52

@50 cont.:
In part 3 the BBC uses a Russian voice to read an e-mail from the selfprofessed FIOA hacker. Than they talk about ~3 bitcoins donated to him in 2013 (~$500) but valuate it on the 2021 rate of $208,000 - wow, a lot of money!! - but not taken out, so not about the ca$h. Next they let a Bellingcat freelancer speak...

Low quality truth distortion from London on display: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0b1r9nr

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 5 2021 11:44 utc | 53

Tom_Q_Collins @41: "I don't think you're spot on re: jackrabbit though. I keep looking for any hidden messages from him that we should vote Democrat and I don't see them."

And you're not supposed to see the hidden message. It's hidden, after all.

Here's how it works:

  1. Many people are susceptible to the notion that "The enemy of my enemy is my ally." In general most people in this forum would agree that one of their top enemies in this current period is the US imperial establishment. Whoever the US establishment attacks is thus seen as a potential ally. Knowing this the resident bunny tries to arrange the narrative such that the Democrats are seen as being victimized by the establishment.
  2. Many people, even smart ones such as those who read our host's work, will content themselves with the "lesser evil" in the voting booth. To harvest these people's votes for a particular party one doesn't have to give them the impression that party is utterly flawless and graced by god. One merely needs to convince those voters that the party one is shilling for is marginally less repulsive than the alternative - or - there is a strategic reason to vote for your party.
  3. Given 1 and 2 above, and knowing that he cannot expect to recruit enthusiastic support for his establishment team, the party shill knows he only needs to convince the reader that supporting his employer will undermine the plans of the establishment. Indeed, that is precisely why many people voted for Trump, and the shill is just trying to turn that dynamic in his own favor.

So you see, the establishment shill will not come out and try to directly and overtly deify the establishment. That wouldn't be a "hidden message" at all. Instead the establishment shill must utilize at least one layer of indirection. The "enemy of my enemy is my ally" assumption provides that indirection, and that assumption is built in for most people so the shill doesn't even have to overtly summon it.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2021 12:08 utc | 54

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 4 2021 20:03 utc | 10

Thanks for your valuable translation, it is of immense value to get an opinion from a source that is not usually readily available to us.

Don't worry about "breaking the rules" by posting an original translation - I think the restriction really only applies to longer texts, and especially ones which are readable online, which does not include original translations. That is just my opinion obviously but I am sure B would agree with that. Your complete post was only of average comment length so it can hardly be called long. It is interesting to hear what Chinese are saying to each other in their own language, which is quite different from a government media outlet in English.

Posted by: BM | Nov 5 2021 12:15 utc | 55

Victor is right. Clinton herself started the rumors before the dossier business went viral.

Posted by: Prof | Nov 5 2021 12:40 utc | 56

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 5 2021 5:08 utc | 40


You totally missed the point. I never said that the Steele Dossier was used to convince voters of anything, per the exact quote you excerpted. What I said was that large swathes of the American voting public's desires are being pyoped out of existence by the inward looking FBI and now CIA and NSA.
___________________________________________________
I may have missed your point because you have not made a clear point.
I said your statement implied that the CIA, FBI, NSA meddled in the 2016 election to influence the outcome, but now you say you didn't mean that and changed the wording. The new wording still sounds to me like you are saying they are meddling in US elections.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 5 2021 12:51 utc | 57

Victor is right. Clinton herself started the rumors before the dossier business went viral.

Posted by: Prof | Nov 5 2021 12:40 utc | 55

She is the first I remember to have said it, and I do not see a mere minion having the clout to make such an obviously stupid idea last this long as a media football. It is important to remember the email server leak/hacking and the Russians being blamed for that too, it was part of a larger blame shifting strategy. It is really 50-50 which of the two is dumber, Clinton or Trump.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 5 2021 12:57 utc | 58

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2021 12:08 utc |

the establishment shill will not come out and try to directly and overtly deify the establishment. That wouldn't be a "hidden message" at all. Instead the establishment shill must utilize at least one layer of indirection. The "enemy of my enemy is my ally" assumption provides that indirection, and that assumption is built in for most people so the shill doesn't even have to overtly summon it.

Agree. Proposed detect propaganda from its sequence <=Model.
<=inversion.<=protected space\ interest< infringe <=propaganda <= distribute to target audience.

Posted by: snake | Nov 5 2021 13:03 utc | 59

It is interesting to hear what Chinese are saying to each other in their own language, which is quite different from a government media outlet in English.

Posted by: BM | Nov 5 2021 12:15 utc | 54

Agree, ready to hear more from Oriental Voice, no offense taken.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 5 2021 13:04 utc | 60

The way I see it, this operation has quite successfully manipulated the electorate as a whole.

For one thing, it has stoked the fire of sectarian division. Weeks and weeks of nonstop artillery reminding us there is no room for fence sitters. The draft is universal, now just pick your side.

Another aspect is the clever manipulation of the draftees to direct their ire at specific targets. In this case, the pinata is Russia. Consider how they have perceived the Dossier:

Team blue
[Loudspeaker call to draftee]: "Brothers! They are testing our faith. Donald Trump, cursed be his wretched orangeness, has yet again shown signs of connivance with our enemy Russia. Quickly, we must seize this opportunity and strike a blow against the One we Hate."
[Lasting tinnitus]: "Russia russia russia"
[blue draftee reaction]: Tentative whack on the pinata.

Team red
[Loudspeaker call to draftee]: "Brothers! They are testing our faith. Hillary, cursed be her wretched arrogance, has yet again made up lies about Trump's alleged connivance with our enemy Russia. Brothers! We cannot let this pass. We all know these are lies sure enough as we know Biden is soft on China!"
[Lasting tinnitus]: "Russia russia china china"
[red draftee reaction]: Tentative whack on the pinatas.

This tentative adherence to the Imperial foreign policy is important. Not only does it eliminate all opposition, it morally binds the elector to the choice he has made. He now has an incentive to dispel, or simply ignore, any evidence that these policies are not in his interest.

Posted by: robin | Nov 5 2021 13:37 utc | 61

@NoOneYouKnow It almost seems like Obama people are willing to let Dunham sacrifice Clinton people. Sort of a stealth intra party coup. As for the GOP, they intend to go with Russia colluded with the Clintons as long as Trump stays gone. The
GOP can't give up their beloved Reaganism. Also military industrial complex pays well. The FBI will get a forever pass, since they are the penultimate key to the deep state.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Nov 5 2021 13:38 utc | 62

Steele dossier was just ONE of several psyops to stop Trump's win! and there were lots of people and institutions involved, beginning with British spies and ex-spies (if there's such a thing!). If one stops at Steele Dossier, what is what I think will happen, then all the big fish involved will do the same again - and I remember the Chalupas, Atlantic Council, Hakluyt, Crowdstrike, and so many more!

Posted by: Ana Q | Nov 5 2021 13:40 utc | 63

Posted by: Victor | Nov 5 2021 11:22 utc | 51

I clearly recall that Hillary made a speech in the summer of 2016 in which it was first mentioned that Trump had ties with Russia and that Russia was influencing the American election process. It was only a short time later that the Steele dossier came to light and the FBI lied to FISA and the Trump surveillance and smear campaign began.
_______________________________________________________________________

In July 2016 at a news conference right after he was nominated, Trump said 'Russia if you are listening find Hillary's missing emails'. Even Trump asserts that the response to that statement is when the accusations of Trump ties to Russia began.
It was a long time later that the Steele Dossier came to light. It was after Trump was elected. Before the 2016 election the FBI never revealed that Trump and members of his campaign were subjects of criminal investigation. The FBI did however violate the FBI's confidentiality policy and repeatedly told the public that Hillary was the subject of criminal investigations.

The whole story that the FBI used the Steele Dossier to spy on an Carter Page is itself psyop story intended to fool the public into believing that the intelligence agencies are constrained and regulated in their spying on the public by the courts.
Edward Snowden has revealed that the intelligence community does not need any permission to intercept telecom and internet communications from anybody anywhere in the USA. They have the hardware installed in every internet and telecom company so that even those companies don't know when or where the spies are intercepting and recording data.
The only time the FBI would need a warrant is when they intend to submit an intercepted communication to a court where an indictment is sought. The FBI has no need for warrants in their everyday intelligence gathering and the FISA warrant Steele Dossier story is intended to conceal that fact.


Posted by: jinn | Nov 5 2021 13:53 utc | 64

Steele dossier was just ONE of several psyops to stop Trump's win!
____________________________________________________________________________
Apparently lots of people believe that. But how did it affect the election if the voters had never heard of Steele Dossier before the election?

Posted by: jinn | Nov 5 2021 13:55 utc | 65

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 4 2021 20:03 utc | 10

thank you so much! Keep posting!

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 5 2021 14:01 utc | 66

@Et Tu #14
You clearly have zero experience with real world crime prosecution.
The reason why confessions are so valuable is because they shortcircuit the investigation/prosecution/trial process. And even then, there are the realities of data access.
A lawyer or policeman cannot just go to Google and pull random data off the internet. There are subpoenas, there are forensic examinations, there are chain of custody etc etc. In a case such as what Durham is working on - there is additional friction in the form of national security blackouts that have to be overcome, as well as institutional (and/or deliberate) dragging out of subpoena compliance.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 5 2021 14:06 utc | 67

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2021 12:08 utc | 53
thanks Gruff.
You opened up and laid out an essential concept/urge every herd/pack animal--me included-- possesses: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Each of us benefits from having a self-critical practice that we employ often to limit our arrogant, brittle convictions. I almost never watch the Super Bowl and when I do it's for 10 minutes or so but within 2 minutes of tuning in I invariably will pick a team as mine and actually feel physically happy/excited/disappointed at their performance and that of the "enemy" team. It's a humble reminder that my "enlightenment" is inherently corruptible.
You pointed to the hidden agenda of a poster. Not sure, in spite of your detailed explanation. I think the step beyond that is to point back to myself and look at my own tendency to be snookered.

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 5 2021 14:14 utc | 68


Posted by: Blaise P | Nov 4 2021 23:00 utc | 17

thank you Blaise. Lots of points and very good, insightful advice. Keep posting.

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 5 2021 14:16 utc | 69

And again, you do not go after or address Craig Unger ever. You go after one single piece without addressing all of the rest.

Posted by: Anon | Nov 5 2021 14:28 utc | 70

When you specifically address Craig Unger and show that his work House of Trump, House of Putin is involved and not credible, then you have a chance at credibility. Take Unger down, and I will start to believe this.

Posted by: Anon | Nov 5 2021 14:37 utc | 71

I stand corrected. Take down Craig Unger and Peter Strzok, and I will believe you.

Posted by: Anon | Nov 5 2021 15:05 utc | 72

Who killed Seth Rich?

Posted by: Mr. House | Nov 5 2021 15:48 utc | 73

russian diplomat found dead in Berlin

what did this guy know?

Posted by: snake | Nov 5 2021 15:49 utc | 74

jinn | Nov 5 2021 0:07 utc | 21


You are implying that the Steele Dossier was used to influence the voters in 2016.
If that were true then the Steele Dossier would have been released as an "October surprise" in 2016 and sunk trump, but it wasn't.

The timing of the release of the Steele Dossier suggests it purpose was not to influence voters. Cogitate on that.

It might also suggest that the customers for these documents did not have a need for them until after Trump had already won the election. I.e. they expected Trump to lose the election.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Nov 5 2021 17:52 utc | 75

The Guardian headline:
Russian source for Steele’s Trump dossier arrested by US authorities
It does not mention that "the Russian" was paid by the Democrats.

Posted by: Keith McClary | Nov 5 2021 18:22 utc | 76

Blaise.P@17 & others

I've come to the thinking that we need to give the oligarch/tyranny-set exactly what they offer us...

We rent an island (say, from Indonesia), ship them all there, and have a 24x7 monitored reality TV show that is one of those Survivor-like shows.

We provide them with nothing other than a few basic tools and some seeds, and we make them engage in challenges to win extra food, etc.

All of the viewers get to vote on whether they have been sufficiently cooperative, and we can gift them little extras based on the vote. So, they will stand a chance to win flat-screen TVs, luxury cars, Rolex watches, designer dresses, etc, all on an island with no roads, electricity, or timetables.

We'll be fair, and have a hospital set up for genuine health problems that they and other oligarchs can cash in points for a place on the queue to receive a consultation.

Every aspect of their lives will be recorded, and also streamed live, and any adult citizen of any country can log-in and vote on outcomes/prizes/etc.

It would be a global phenomenon unlike any other, and I'm betting it would take only a matter of weeks-to-months before they've gone full 'Lord of the Flies' on each other.

We would need to have a security cordon around the island to recapture and return any would-be escapees.

I'm sure Indonesia could put the rental money to good use for social programmes also.

Additionally, we would be able to have the much required revolution on a global scale, and with a sense of humour included.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Nov 5 2021 19:04 utc | 77

@Victor
I recall the same. It was Hillary who started the ball rolling, making the first ever "Putin's puppet" type public comment

Posted by: nwwoods | Nov 5 2021 21:00 utc | 78

@Grieved | 38 and @migueljose | 69
Thank you; glad to be helpful; will post when time and inspiration permit.

@Jon_in_AU | 77
That is a very amusing dramatization: and suggests lenient modes of correction, or even rebellion when fear is not necessary.

@ snake | 19, 46
“a second government with the power to audit, indi[ct], convict and punish [mis] government…in the court of the 2nd government”

Because either of two governments could become corrupt, I propose triple-redundant cross-checking administrations of each branch of federal government, similar to the redundant guidance systems of aircraft. Also rotating memberships of agency boards.

“The constitution… changed the USA from a bottom up… democracy to a top-down federalism [with] no voice from the bottom”

Among the problems of representative democracy are preserving the bottom-up flow of control, adherence to popular will in high-level decisions, and avoiding arbitrariness in the necessarily top-down administration of policies. I suggest preserving forms where repairable, but agree with the founders that revolution is necessary in every generation, which has not happened. We are so loyal to the old car that we refuse to repair it.

Posted by: Blaise P | Nov 5 2021 21:55 utc | 79

foolisholdman @ 75 wrote:

It might also suggest that the customers for these documents did not have a need for them until after Trump had already won the election. I.e. they expected Trump to lose the election.
_________________________________________________________________
If they wanted to achieve the objective of Trump losing they could have published the Dossier right before the election when there would be no time left to discredit the contents of the Dossier.
Instead of maligning Trump, the FBI maligned Clinton a week before the election by announcing that Hillary was the subject of a criminal investigation. Many people think that swung the election in favor of Trump.

I don't doubt that TPTB expected Trump would lose. They did not think Trump could pull it off, but that doesn't mean TPTB did not want Trump to win. It should be obvious to everybody at this point that they only reason Trump won in 2016 is because the voters perceived Trump to be the anti-establishment candidate. That is the only way he could have won.
The establishment benefited from the Trump presidency the voters did not - those are the facts. What astonishes me is that voters still think Trump is anti-establishment. You have to give Trump kudos for that. In spite of all the evidence to the contrary Trump has convinced both his supporters and many who hate him that he is the anti-establishment candidate.


Posted by: jinn | Nov 5 2021 22:24 utc | 80

@ jinn | Nov 5 2021 22:24 utc | 80 who wrote
"
In spite of all the evidence to the contrary Trump has convinced both his supporters and many who hate him that he is the anti-establishment candidate.
"

YES! If you have been at this bar for long you will have seen how much our dear barkeep and fellow barflies are afflicted by that misconception in spite of the evidence that shows the shit show being fixed on ALL sides.

Thanks again for the clear description of that aspect of our Wag The Dog shit show.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 5 2021 22:34 utc | 81

as it's more than likely that Skripal also helped compile this dossier for Steele he should be asked to provide testimony also - perhaps this will come in the fullness of time

Posted by: Terence Reeves-Smyth | Nov 5 2021 0:32 utc | 24

No, they're pushing up the daisies, gone to meet their maker, pining for the fjords...

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Nov 5 2021 23:35 utc | 82

Trump is NOT anti-establishment. Sorry I voted for him in 2016. (Couldn't bear the thought of Hillary.) Time has shown that they are simply -- as others have pointed out -- two sides of the same coin.

Posted by: Evelyn Vincent | Nov 6 2021 1:06 utc | 83

Mr. House #73

I would be looking at DWS for that answer.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 6 2021 4:37 utc | 84

Jon_in_AU #77

1. They are already full Lord of the Flies that is why they are at the 'top'.

2. There must be lots of scorpions on the island.

3. A BIG neutron bomb must be at the ready at all times in the event of a breakout.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 6 2021 4:43 utc | 85

"...[I]n a closed-door hearing before the House Intelligence Committee on Dec. 5, 2017 Shawn Henry, president of CrowdStrike, admitted under oath that his firm had no firm evidence that the DNC emails were hacked — by Russia or anyone else — and data removed. This testimony has never been reported by corporate media, leaving intact the persistent belief that the DNC server was hacked by Russia and its emails given to WikiLeaks." - Consortium News

Posted by: spudski | Nov 6 2021 15:58 utc | 86

My vote for a second pole (aside China) would be Iran. a country that has driven the US nuts for forty years and even under severe sanctions all that time has gained primary influence in the Middle East, a violation of the Carter Doctrine. Who can forget Obama's Iran policy with Iran "all options are on the table" (repeat often).
...the latest
"Iran announced today it has increased its stockpile of enriched uranium. Spokesperson for the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran Behrouz Kamalvandi said the amount of uranium enriched to 60% in the country has reached 25 kilograms (55 pounds). Iran has also produced more than 210 kilograms (460 pounds) of uranium enriched to 20%, the semi-official Press TV reported."
. . .fifty-five pounds at sixty percent, in the world's chief state supporter of terrorism! Talk about soaring tensions!! So it's Iran for me, but Milley has to support a half-million person ground force 'cuz he's Army, don't you know. The US without a huge army would be like. . .a normal country.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 6 2021 16:41 utc | 87

Still throwing us off scent. The name of Steel associate
on his web site, deleted once the scandal broke out, was
the old Russia hand working for Steel as a recruiter in
Russia, Pablo Miller. He really collected various “supporting”
data, various fillers meant to show credibility of the
data collection.

It was just this information (about meetings in Prague
that were to show knowledge of the whereabouts of
some Russian officials, coinciding with Trump associates
movements. This Dashchenko fellow never claimed to
have such information, But Pablo Miller had sources.

One of his old hands with Russia contacts was Sergei Skripal. It is very likely that Russian counterintelligence
passed a deliberately wrong information by linking two
different people with same name, but very different
line of work — with Russian official being far away
from Prague on that date, Such mistakes are millers
for intelligence as it indicates sloppiness and lack of
credibility.

There is a reason Skripal’s house was taken apart by Brirish
authorities, all interior walls up to attic, clearly
suspecting listening devices. Pablo Miller
recruited Skripal in Russia, and upon Skripal
exchange, he was instrumental in getting him
a home. Too much of a coincidence.

Posted by: Bianca | Nov 7 2021 2:13 utc | 88

No matter how vile one thinks Trump is,
A concerted effort to undermine his admin,
Using the fbi, doj, msm, and assorted intelligence agencies
Is sedition

A peaceful transition of power, it was not.

Posted by: Cadence Calls | Nov 7 2021 6:05 utc | 89

The whole affair reeks of a grubby and dysfunctional political culture that has existed for decades.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 4 2021 18:49 utc | 2

That's as perfect a summation as you can get!
Thanks Jen

Posted by: JPC | Nov 7 2021 10:49 utc | 90

@Blaise P | Nov 4 2021 23:00 utc | 18

I think you are confusing Power with Force. It is more useful to exercise Power because it gets better results. Force has bad consequences for it's wielder. Power has no bad consequences for it's users that I know of.

Posted by: UnionHorse | Nov 7 2021 12:12 utc | 91

Power has no bad consequences for it's users that I know of.

Posted by: UnionHorse | Nov 7 2021 12:12 utc | 91

Depending on how you project it maybe?

What was that phrase.
An iron fist in a velvet glove!

Posted by: JPC | Nov 7 2021 12:21 utc | 92

Bianca | 88

My suspicion is that the UK found out that Skripal was working for Russia again (still?) and he knew too much, and was planning to return, so they needed to quickly think of some way to silence him.

Posted by: Keith McClary | Nov 7 2021 14:44 utc | 93

Guess this now goes public as part of infighting within the Democrats thus finishing off the Clinton faction.

Posted by: JR | Nov 7 2021 16:20 utc | 94

@UnionHorse | 91 No confusion here; force is one means to power.

Posted by: Blaise P | Nov 7 2021 20:44 utc | 95

Thanks for sharing your good content.آینه کاری

Posted by: رحیمی گلس | Nov 24 2021 7:24 utc | 96

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