Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 24, 2021

Open Thread 2021-91

News & views ...

Posted by b on November 24, 2021 at 16:42 UTC | Permalink

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US-backed counter-revolution coup against Cuba blatantly fails

Posted by: KillWallStreet | Nov 24 2021 17:08 utc | 1

we shall overcome toots the maytals.... workers and little people unite!

Posted by: james | Nov 24 2021 17:35 utc | 2

Currency protests in Istanbul demand Erdogan's resignation. Erdogan vows to continue his monetary policy. The problem as usual is dollar denominated debt that's becoming harder to payoff due to the continual devaluation of the Lira. The problem will escalate and become a major crisis by the time elections are due in 2023.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 17:35 utc | 3

Hi everyone,
I would be curious to hear what our host, b, (and anyone else) has to say about Olaf Scholz. It sounds like he is going to be the new Chancellor. I just read on ZH that he is opposed to a new lockdown on German society because of the corona virus thing. I was also reading somewhere on ZH that Austrian police and military may be standing down on implementing the draconian lockdowns on the populace.
I don't know. I'm just some guy from California. I don't have any friends in Europe to ask, so thought I would ask the MoA crew.
Here is the link to the ZH ( I know... ) articles.

Angela and Olaf

Tom Luongo talks about Austria in this article

Happy Thanksgiving almost to the USA readers. And everyone else. Thank you as always.

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 24 2021 17:37 utc | 4

China attacks Biden's Democracy Summit:

"Holding the so-called democratic summits to divide groups by ideology standards has been the tactic played by the US since the Cold War era. The Biden administration has revived it from the ashes, attempting to tout and promote US standards of democracy globally and verify the loyalty of its allies as well, Zhu Ying, a professor on human rights and international laws from Southwest University of Political Science and Law, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

"'As the sunlight breaks up into different colors inside the water droplet, democracy cannot be in one single color or defined by one single country. The 'participant list' clearly demonstrates that the so-called summit for democracy is nothing but anti-democracy. It is politicizing democracy and it is all about geopolitics,' Zhu said."

That's an excellent analogy. And as I stated the last time about this topic, China and Russia conform to Lincoln's definition of democracy: By the People, For the People, Of the People. By that standard, the Outlaw US Empire's an Oligarchy overseen by a one party Duopoly that obscures those pulling the strings. The interview with Hudson describes it all too well.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 17:44 utc | 5

Hudson's latest interview "Falling into Line: Turning Endless Deficits into a Power Base" has an Emcee who asks all the right questions. Do note Hudson's suggestion further on in the interview that links to the title.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 17:48 utc | 6

Alastair Crooke's latest installment in his series of essays about the rise of technocrat tyranny "‘Ideological Fanaticism’: The Folly of Seeing Human Systems as Hardware". I suggest reading this essay at his first link "How Fanatics Took Over the World".

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 17:53 utc | 7

"Kyle was simply a prop in their political drama. Which is why when confronted with the facts of the case, the talking heads, the journalists, and the politicians — continued to promote the idea that they were right and Kyle is a criminal. The story they are promoting is not impacted by the facts because what is important to them is to appear to be “fighting the bad guys.” They have fabricated a drama where they are battling evil like knights battling a dragon."

"Democrats go all in to appeal to a small percentage of the electorate while insulting and demonizing anyone who doesn’t care about those niche concerns. They have allowed niche culture warriors to take control over their overall political propaganda. And to say they are losing because of it, is to put it mildly. They continue to look clueless while amazingly still trying to salvage the Kyle Rittenhouse drama. They don’t realize how bad they look to average people when they viciously attack an average teenager because of their insane internal racial dramatics. " Illegally Crossing State Lines or: Escape From Planet Mental

Posted by: el | Nov 24 2021 18:05 utc | 8

The saker has an article by Claudia Chung entitled "in-memory-of-jfk-the-first-u-s-president-to-be-declared-a-terrorist-and-threat-to-national-security". Due to my inefficiency in providing links per b's format, I hope most readers can access this long article. What the author provides is some early data that adds to the discussion of whether Vietnam can be laid at the feet of Kennedy.

On a recent thread karlof1, you didn't seem to think much of the Thanksgiving holiday. As a non-native citizen, for me it is the most meaningful one on the 'official' calendar - not due to its historical accuracy but rather to its spiritual content, with which I am sure you agree. That is, that we can be taught to be thankful by the example of cultures very different from our own. I experienced that when as a teenager I first came to this country and was present to the holiday at our Irish landlady's home in San Francisco.

To me, whether or not this actually happened the way it is remembered isn't the key. Certainly, we still need to learn its lesson, and in particular to acquire the respect for native inhabitants and their honorable traditions the story embodies. Neither those honorable natives nor the needy arrivals could know what the future would hold, (there was no Outlaw Empire then) but for the moment the story tells us that they did behave honorably. And so it is for us as well, in our moment. Give thanks for that opportunity at least.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 24 2021 18:20 utc | 9

@Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 24 2021 17:37 utc | 4

Scholz looks like your classic middle of the road German nationalist ordoliberal. His traffic light coalition involves the Green Party, so big on renewable energy plans and cannabis legalization, but also the leader of the Greens (Baerbock) is a WEF cut-out and became Foreign Minister - could be the German equivalent of Chrystia Freeland (who never met a Ukrainian Nazi she didn't like and seems to have a grinding hatred of Russia). NS2, and the ongoing relations with Russia and China will be interesting. The Free Democrat (i.e. neoliberal) becomes the new Finance Minister, so no change to Germany's "traditional" post-1980's policies (anti-debt, austerity and wage-suppression policies). German business does support NS2 for obvious reasons, so that may kept out of any anti-Russia moves and propaganda.

I can't see much change with respect to COVID, apart from more say for business leaders arguing to keep the economy open. With over 55,000 cases a day now though, that may get harder as the winter grinds on.

Doesn't seem very hopeful for Germany to find a more balanced role between East and West.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 24 2021 18:40 utc | 10

From the AFR, the facade cracks in Australian federal parliament:

"Rebel senators opposed to state-imposed vaccine mandates have claimed a partial concession from the government regarding the compensation scheme and in return, will guarantee their vote on procedural matters.
However, they remain resolved not to support any government bills unless the Prime Minister legislates to overrule the state mandates, something the government believes is both unconstitutional and politically ruinous.

Currently, if someone can show they have lost at least $5000 in income due an adverse reaction to a COVID-19 vaccine, they are eligible for $20,000 or more in compensation.
That threshold will fall from $5000 to $1000. The government says the change was already under consideration and had been presented to the expenditure review committee before the Senate uprising.

The government has been considering this policy change for a number of weeks now and I thank all colleagues and stakeholders who have contributed to this decision,” said Health Minister Greg Hunt....."

I notice on ABC TV, one of the proudly un-vaccinated senators talking about a vaccinated man who suddenly became 'paralysed'.

If the 'vaccines' are such a good thing why is there a need for a compensation scheme?

Posted by: Paul | Nov 24 2021 18:41 utc | 11

Thank you Paul Robinson!!!! "Is Russia going to invade Ukraine?":

"While commentators spilled ink over the prospect of war between Russia & Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin last week took a major step towards absorbing the war-torn breakaway Donbass regions. And yet, bizarrely, nobody noticed."

Well, of course I noticed, wrote an article about it that 600 others have read and a few shared. Robinson recaps:

"Yet something significant is indeed happening in Russian-Ukrainian relations. This became clear last week when Putin issued a decree entitled ‘On Rendering Humanitarian Assistance to the Population of Separate Districts of the Donetsk and Lugansk Regions of Ukraine’. The decree 'stipulates equal access of Donbass goods to Russia’s state procurement tenders. It also removes quotas on the movement of goods across the customs border.'

"The 2015 Minsk II agreement, which is meant to provide a mechanism for ending the conflict in Donbass, talks about the “full restoration of socio-economic relations” between Ukraine and the breakaway self-declared republics. Ukraine, however, has moved in the opposite direction, subjecting Donetsk and Lugansk to a tight economic blockade, in the apparent hope that life there will become so miserable that the locals will long to return to the relative prosperity of their former home. Putin’s decree is a much-delayed response to this. As Russia’s authorized representative in the Contact Group on Settling the Situation in Eastern Ukraine, Boris Gryzlov, said on Thursday:

"'This is a purely humanitarian response to Kiev’s non-fulfillment of the Minsk accords, the economic and transport blockade of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions that has been in place since 2017 and the liberation of the region’s residents from the economic stranglehold created by the Kiev regime… This actually paves the way for the revival and recovery of the Donetsk and Lugansk economies that possess considerable resources and potential in the metals, energy and engineering sectors.'

Robinson omits the announcement of the decree being forced and made in association with the UN's Genocide Convention. He does at least provide the remaining contextual background:

"It would also appear that Moscow has lost any hope it may once have had that Ukraine’s West European backers might pressure it into enacting the provisions of Minsk II. This can be seen in an unprecedented decision last week by the Russian Foreign Ministry to publish its correspondence with France and Germany, who with Russia and Ukraine are members of the ‘Normandy Format’, which is meant to help implement the Minsk II agreement. According to the Russians, the correspondence showed that rather than helping to implement Minsk II, France and Germany were sabotaging it....

"The decision in 2019 to allow those living in the Donbass to claim Russian citizenship was the first step in this direction. This new move is another. It will both undermine Kiev’s economic warfare strategy and make the territory a part of the Russian economic space. Little by little, it will contribute towards turning Donbass into a de facto region of the Russian Federation."

IMO, we must assume Russia deems Minsk2 dead--a UNSC Resolution undermined by three of the five permanent UNSC members; an almost unprecedented act. I highly doubt Russia will spend any more energy in trying to get Kiev and its string pullers to obey what they've undermined. How that will affect relations with France, UK and Outlaw US Empire remains to be seen. As for Kiev, we'll likely see a steeling of the Donbass perimeter and its airspace while efforts are made to improve its infrastructure and repair battle damage. Retaliation for ceasefire violations will become far more effective. I also expect there'll be more to come in the form of protection directly from Russia. And I presume there'll be other repercussions in other diplomatic venues.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 18:41 utc | 12

Posted by: james | Nov 24 2021 17:35 utc | 2

At the Commodore...

Posted by: Paco | Nov 24 2021 18:44 utc | 13

Well said Juliana. Thanksgiving is the best holiday. Although I have abandoned the country of my ancestors, I still try to keep the holiday here in my new country. Like most things american, the real story doesn't match Up with the Fairy Tale, but I celebrate the Fairy Tale.

Posted by: c | Nov 24 2021 18:44 utc | 14

re: juliania | Nov 24 2021 18:20 utc | 9

As a vet of that American war on Vietnam I'm keen to read that. Some norskie vets found out so a few years ago I was privileged to give a talk at the War and Peace Museum in Narvik, Norway about that war. To prepare I had to do some research. This issue goes back beyond JFK. I'll read the article and check my notes and be back later in the thread.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 24 2021 18:46 utc | 15

@ 10 - Roger - Thank you! The comparison to Chrystia Freeland is concerning. Ugh. And thank you in advance to anyone else who helps me figure out this crazy world.

Here's a track for our jukebox. Hat tip to james.

UB40 - The Earth Dies Screaming

RIP Astro of UB40.

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 24 2021 18:50 utc | 16

I second the recomendatión fot the Claudia Chung article. Also her prior artícles on the history of the Murder Incorporated CIA.

Posted by: c | Nov 24 2021 18:51 utc | 17

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 18:41 utc | 12

Luka gave an interview to the BBC a few days back, some excerpts were posted on Telegram, now Rozhin posted the full encounter. Luka is some spectacle by himself, he fills the shoes of a Spanish literature genre, like "El Señor Presidente". I'll prepare myself something hot to drink and enjoy the show. But in the real world Putin talked to Michel of the European Council advising to respect human rights and talk directly with Luka as per the conversation with Merkel. A reminder to the Polish government to respect human rights and other points were discussed.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 24 2021 19:07 utc | 18

Christian Zionist, liar and bullshit artiste, Oz PM Sco Mo, seems not to be enjoying the public 'debate' about his lying and bullshitting in the TV News and current affairs programs. The 'debate' took a turn for the worse a couple of weeks ago when people on Radio talkback shows and TV talking heads began musing on the reason he lies about things he doesn't need to lie about i.e. for no obvious reason.

Anyhow, yesterday his Liberals (cough cough) added Hezbollah and The Base to Oz's Banned Ter'rist organisation list, putting Oz on the same page as the other Jewed-up Christian Colonial Countries/ Mock Democracies and in full compliance with the wishes of the West's Ringleader, Jewed-up AmeriKKKa.

And just to ensure there was plenty of tosh to deflect attention from debates about Sco Mo's habitual mendacity, his Liberals proposed a superfluous and totally unnecessary piece of delightfully vague legislation called (approximately) the Anti-Religious Discrimination Act. The Act claims to give Oz Believers of any religion the right to sincerely express their sincere beliefs in the aspects they like about it any time and place they feel like doing so, without fear of scorn or ridicule, provided they weren't trying to be provocative, sort of...

Religious discrimination in Oz is not a big problem because more than half the population doesn't care about religion and regards a church as a nice place to sanctify weddings and funerals. Christmas in Oz is more a Shopping Festival than a Religious Festival. We also tend to think of religion as a quaint, but harmless, hobby - so long as Believers don't try to bore us shitless with its wondrousness. On the other hand, Racism is a problem in Oz despite the fact that physical and verbal racist abuse is illegal.

Oz already has a multitude of ant-discrimination laws for LBGQWERTY, Age, Race and Sex etc. So IF a version of the Act makes it through Parliament, it'll be 'interesting' to see WHEN some bunch of misfits takes advantage of its flaws and abuses it in a Lawfair-ish way. Unlike some other Christian Colonial Cuntries, in Oz it's not illegal, or 'anti-semitic' to say or write unkind things about Jews, if the rant is based on facts. If Sco Mo's Liberals (cough cough) get their way, that could change...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 24 2021 19:13 utc | 19

In anticipation of Biden's tea party video summit in early December, Global Times has published a very provocative Infographic that highlights some recent polling results which is why I deem the summit a tea party. In its relations with China, Biden continues to say one thing while doing another regarding Taiwan:

"When the White House announced in August it would hold a summit for democracy, the Global Times published an editorial, warning: If the US invites high-level Taiwan official to participate in the meeting, 'PLA fighter jets will fly over the island,' realizing a historic cruise to declare our sovereignty. They must be clear: PLA fighter jets flying over the island is a long-awaited wish of all Chinese people. All we have been waiting for is an opportunity. For the Chinese people, this move will speak louder than thousands of words and can overwhelm various dirty tricks in the collusion between the US and Taiwan island....

"It is obvious that almost everyone is sure that the army on the Taiwan island dares not open fire if the mainland's warplanes fly over the island because that will mean the outbreak of a war, and the PLA will definitely carry out a destructive strike on the island's armed forces. The mainland is already fully prepared in many ways to deal with possible reactions from the US. It has created huge pressure on the US which wants to intervene with high intensity in the Taiwan Straits. The mainland is determined and confident to overwhelm the US and Taiwan....

"The general public on the mainland is getting increasingly impatient with the actions of Taiwan secessionists that have been dissipating our energy. And the voices that demand the country's reunification by force are getting louder and louder. The US and the secessionist forces in Taiwan must understand that no matter whether Beijing sends its military aircraft over the island, shoots down some of Taiwan's warplanes, or sends a ship to ram a provocative US warship, it will surely be welcomed by the people on the mainland."

The Outlaw US Empire clearly wants to deepen the crisis so it breaks out prior to the start of the Olympics, while China would probably prefer it to be later. I would be surprised if no provocative action is taken by the Outlaw US Empire before or during the Olympics at any of the crises points it's promoted.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 19:14 utc | 20

"Syrian Christians Were Quietly Warned Before The War"

Syrian Christians were catching wind of US Machiavellian machinations for them and their country as early as 2004-2005. Impoverishment, ethno-religious sectarianism, Wahhabi terrorism, and US-created opposition are typical modus operandi of the US organized crime syndicate.

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Nov 24 2021 19:17 utc | 21

juliania @9 and c @17, thanks, will try to read that article by Cynthia Chung. Here's the link.

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Nov 24 2021 19:21 utc | 22

in the news....
For First Time, Half of Americans Favor Defending Taiwan If China Invades
Wow, I must have missed the vote. . .half of Americans want more war, this time to defend a China renegade province!!

This analysis is based on data from the 2021 Chicago Council Survey of the American public on foreign policy, a project of the Lester Crown Center on US Foreign Policy. The 2021 Chicago Council Survey was conducted July 7–26, 2021, by Ipsos using its large-scale nationwide online research panel, KnowledgePanel, among a weighted national sample of 2,086 adults, 18 or older, living in all 50 US states and the District of Columbia.. .here

Oh, so was on average forty people in each state, not all the people in each state, who are on a "research panel," and twenty of them (on average) said defend Taiwan. And there could have been a decrease of two percent, which would make it less than half. Also it was a "weighted national sample" which means the findings were adjusted to fit the desired outcome.

What was the poll question? "Taiwan has been self-governed since 1949, but China claims it as part of its territory. The United States supports Taiwan’s right to self-government and does not recognize China’s territorial claims on Taiwan. Would you favor or oppose the following US policies toward Taiwan? (%) . . .Committing to defend Taiwan from Chines invasion" . . . .It's obvious what answer is expected, backed up by all the negative MSM stories on how nasty China is.

Wait, there's more. Reading down: "a plurality (46%) favor explicitly committing to defend Taiwan if China invades." It was (%): favor -- 46, don't know -- 40 [very high], oppose -- 12 . . .How did a "plurality" become a "half?"

Reading down some more: "The 2021 Chicago Council Survey is made possible by the generous support of the Crown family and the Korea Foundation." Let's look at the "Crown family." . . . The Forbes 2020 "America's Richest Families" rates the Crown family at #34, with a net worth of over ten billion dollars. Forbes:

Son of financier Henry Crown, who founded sand, stone and gravel company Material Service with 2 brothers in 1919. Expanded firm into world's largest building materials distributor, merged with General Dynamics in 1959; still has large stake in the firm*. Lester inherited fortune after father's death in1990. Diversified into hotels, sports, technology. Family co-owns Rockefeller Center with Tishman Speyer. Also owns stakes in Chicago Bulls, New York Yankees. Controls Aspen Skiing Company, which owns Aspen Mountain, Aspen Highlands, Buttermilk and Snowmass.. .here

* General Dynamics is the third leading Pentagon contractor.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 24 2021 19:23 utc | 23

CC@22 - check @15

Posted by: c | Nov 24 2021 18:44 utc | 14
Well said Juliana. Thanksgiving is the best holiday. Although I have abandoned the country of my ancestors, I still try to keep the holiday here in my new country.

Yes, well said Juliana @9. Not quite like c I have abandoned the country of my birth for the country of my ancestors, and it’s easy to forget the best of the American holidays – no gifts, no religion, turkey with all the trimmings, family, friends, touch football in the yard with kids....

Herewith my alltime favorite Thanksgiving joke:
Plains, Georgia, the home of former President Jimmy Carter, bills itself as the peanut capitol of the world. So in Carter’s first year as prez the joke goes,
“Do you know what they are eating in Plains, Georgia for Thanksgiving this year?
No, what?
Peanuts, because they sent their turkey to Washington.”

Happy Thanksgiving to all the Americans here at MoA. May sanity prevail in your readjustment to a multipolar world.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 24 2021 19:30 utc | 24

Paco @18--

Thanks for your reply! From the transcript of Putin's talk with Michel:

"During the exchange of views on the internal Ukrainian conflict, the non-alternative nature of the Minsk Package of Measures as the basis for the settlement was emphasized. The President of Russia expressed concern over the continuing provocations of the Ukrainian side aimed at aggravating the situation on the contact line. The need to stop Kiev's policy of discrimination against the Russian-speaking population, which violates Ukraine's international obligations, is also pointed out."

So, Minsk2 still exists as a demand for Kiev to obey, while Russia's most recent action and Lavrov's words address Kiev's refusal. The refusal by the Collective West to reconcile with Russia in 1991 was a gigantic mistake that's been escalated over the 30 years since, and it's now dug a huge hole for itself it doesn't seem to have any intention of digging itself out from. I doubt Putin will be sending any further energy help Westward beyond what's contracted as IMO hard ball time is now upon us.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 19:35 utc | 25

In my meanderings on the internet yesterday, I came across a completely different cartographic image of our planet--"The Spilhaus Projection-A World Map According To Fish." It puts the concepts of the World Island and Heartland into very different perspectives.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 19:52 utc | 26

@ Posted by: juliania | Nov 24 2021 18:20 utc | 9

The holiday is what we make of it.

I suggest christians try to avoid turning Christmas into an excuse for wanton indulgence and rather focus on family, simple activities in the home, contemplate the teachings of Christ and how we ourselves might help others rather than ourselves. Do not let the media determine what Christmas is about.

I find that the less time I spend watch tv and shopping, the better my life is. I try to teach the same to my children.

Not meaning to preach, just my thoughts.

Posted by: jared | Nov 24 2021 19:58 utc | 27

Gaslighting Iran and the JCPOA

Posted by: Cyrus | Nov 24 2021 20:03 utc | 28

Interesting read by Engdahl

It’s called a Natural Asset Company. With it the New York Stock Exchange has unveiled the most radical and potentially most destructive plan yet to make literally trillions of dollars on something that is the natural right and heritage of the entire human race—nature itself, all nature, from air, fresh water to rainforests to even farmland. It is being promoted as a way to incentivize the preservation of nature. In fact it is a diabolical scheme to financialize potentially trillions of dollars of nature, ultimately allowing a globalist financial elite to control even this. And the Rockefeller Foundation is a founding partner. The combination of the NYSE and that foundation ought to sound loud alarm bells.

The term financialize refers to the act of converting intangible value into financial instruments. Now hiding behind the fake facade of the Green Agenda that the UN and Davos WEF are promoting along with major OECD governments, Wall Street and the world’s largest financial institutions are promoting a scheme to financialize virtually all of nature. They even hired McKinsey and others to put a dollar value on it. They claim it all is worth 4 Quadrillion dollars or 4000 trillion dollars. Yet how can we put a dollar price on something given by nature?

Wall Street’s Diabolical Plan to Financialize All Nature

Posted by: Down South | Nov 24 2021 20:07 utc | 29

explain this
B does not seem to want the vaccine stuff published but this is worth the time to hear. out.

Posted by: snake | Nov 24 2021 20:30 utc | 30

waynorinorway @24, thanks, missed that you had provided the link @15 - trying to do too many things at once ...

karlof1 @26, ya I found the Spilhaus Projection quite interesting to see and think about too! Had come across it through Mackindergarten Lesson by Patrick Armstrong that b had shared with us a few days ago.

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Nov 24 2021 20:37 utc | 31

Or even Joschka Fischer. The Greens have a dismal track record in Foreign Policy.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 24 2021 20:41 utc | 32

Kilroy was here

Everywhere US soldiers marched during WWII
they would encounter graffiti
left by soldiers that had preceded them.

The favorite was
"Kilroy was here".

When you fill up your gas tank see if you find
"Kilroy was here"
"I did that!".
If not, beat the next guy to it.

(hint: they are available on eBay, etsy, amazon,...)

Posted by: librul | Nov 24 2021 20:46 utc | 33

Chris Hayes: poster when America's MSM died
He's one of many but a great example of why the U.S. is lost and will never find its way back.
In 2003, the U.S. security state was looking to justify our invasion of Iraq.
A high ranking govt official 'leaks' a story of how Saddam has close ties to Al Qaeda to Chis Hayes, a journalist.
Chris Hayes does not question this at all, to him it's Christmas day. He dutifully acts like Paul Revere to amplify this false narrative.

Since Iraq 2003, no govt officials or journalists who did things like this ever experienced any negative consequences. This encourages govt officials to lie and means that the U.S. will never correct any of its mistakes.

Ahh ... but the Christians in the U.S. see nothing wrong with this. We are God's incorruptible agents on earth. Our only problem is showing weakness (lack of brutality) to our enemies (victims).

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Nov 24 2021 20:48 utc | 34

Posted by: Paul | Nov 24 2021 18:41 utc | 11

It seems what's going on here is that the LNP are worried about a voter backlash from this minority of traditional supporters. The libertarians and other assorted folks need to be corralled back onto the reservation, but the mainstream libs and the govt cannot be seen to support them. Morrison carefully signalled ambivalence over the demonstrations in Victoria but almost stepped too far. So, enter Craig Kelly, Lib in UAP clothing, who can spout a looney anti-vax line, scoop up the votes and distribute them back to the govt as preferences. This compensation scheme is of the same order. It's a sop, a bit of pork-barrel politics, to woo the recidivists back under the LNP umbrella. None of it has anything to do with COVID, the efficacy of vaccines, or even reality, and everything to do with preventing collapse for Morrison at the next election.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 21:05 utc | 35

Posted by: Paul | Nov 24 2021 18:41 utc | 11

PS. I love how everyone on this blog assumes Thanksgiving is a global holiday (like July 4). We're all part of the United Nations of America, right? Hmmm. If I give thanks it's because I'm not a redneck praising the lord and passing the ammo. 'Thanksgiving' indeed.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 21:10 utc | 36

All three defendants in Arbery case found guilty of murder ...


Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 24 2021 21:16 utc | 37

Snake @ 30
The link you've given doesn't seem to be active. Could you repost it, or give it in full?

Posted by: Hope | Nov 24 2021 21:17 utc | 38

Patroklos @36

You're just jealous and filled with resentment because you don't have such an awesome holiday!

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 21:20 utc | 39

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 24 2021 19:13 utc | 19

I agree completely about Aussies and religion. Most think that a 'priest' is a bloke you keep your kids away from. And not without good reason. Nevertheless, I would add a rider to that general characterisation. Hillsong-style evangelical Christianity is on the rise here. Our PM, who is happy and clappy, thought prayers a viable solution to the apocalyptic bushfires of 2019 (that is after he got back from his Hawaiian holiday). Speaking in tongues is also handy when making public policy. But more than that let us not forget Walter Benjamin's astute identification of Capitalism as Religion. As you rightly point out, all religious holidays in Australia have been stripped of their spiritual content and have become secular cults of consumption (which of course is true throughout the Anglo-world). But the cult goes well beyond consumption: careerism, neoliberal competition, daily competitive veneration of the property market, managerial coups of education and public institutions, exorbitant indebtedness to service hyper-aspirationalism, degradation of sociality and basic civility, Fortress Australia, regressive xenophobic, Islamophobic, Sinophobic tribalism, AUKUS, etc etc. Religion is there when you ever-so-slightly redefine it.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 21:25 utc | 40

The EU High Representative Josep Borrell has just made a very telling admission, check out this video. Here is the interesting quote (at about timestamp 29:00,):

“And we western people, US and EU, we have been ruling the world because we were the standard setters, we were fixing the standards, we are the masters of how technology was working. And from steel-mills to trains, railways to everything warfare, we were the standard setting. If we are no longer the standard setting, we will not rule the 21st century.”

Posted by: Passer by | Nov 24 2021 21:31 utc | 41

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 21:20 utc | 39

The rest of the world knows US holidays backwards through a half-century of indoctrination. Most young Australians think we've always celebrated Halloween but it started here as a retail-driven thing around 2000, so slavishly did we want to emulate the USA. But we all know Veteran's Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, Groundhog Day ( = Australia's experience of US hegemony). Do you know our national festivals? Without googling them I doubt it. And why would you? America is the centre of the universe.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 21:31 utc | 42

Bemildred @37

Anyone freaking out and driving their vehicles into parades over it?

I have not checked, so if I am wrong please correct me, but I suspect there isn't any rioting over the verdict. Why? Because unlike with a case of self defense, most "deplorables" agree that shooting someone, even a thug, just because you are angry with them is wrong and should be punished. The Arbery case was obviously not one of self defense.

If I am right, and we don't see people melting down over the verdict and vocally protesting that the murderers are innocent even though the jury has spoken, then we can clearly see who the crazy delusional fucks are in America.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 21:38 utc | 43

Patroklos @42

You are correct. I didn't even know Australia had holidays. What do they have to celebrate, Kangaroo

I am familiar with Japan's and China's holidays, though. Mexico's too. Those countries have some cool holidays.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 21:46 utc | 44

RT notes in this article, "Russia's top security official says West responsible for ‘destroying’ Ukraine", that Patrushev has conducted another interview with Argumenty i Fakty that focuses elsewhere as the title indicates, "The West and its hostages. Nikolai Patrushev on the causes of the migrant crisis". The interview's in Russian; Patrushev doesn't mince his words; he's very matter-of-fact. The RT item provides a decent synopsis but lacks the incisive denunciations Patrushev delivers. Here's the main thrust of the interview:

"AiF spoke about the tense situation on the Belarusian-Polish border with the Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Nikolai Patrushev.

"Vitaly Tseplyaev, Nikolai Platonovich, as you know, each of the parties has its own point of view on this crisis. Americans and Europeans claim that these events were directed by Minsk with the support of Moscow. In turn, the Belarusian leadership considers its country to be a victim and blames Europe. Where is the truth?

"Nikolai Patrushev: According to the information available to us, recently a well-organized influx of migrants has been going to Belarus using the possibilities of a visa-free regime, primarily from Iraq and Syria, as well as Afghanistan, Libya and some other countries. At the same time, they fly to the Belarusian land not on Belavia boards, but mainly on charter flights. Their final destination is Europe, where they go, most often, to previously emigrated acquaintances and relatives.

"The focus of migrants is Germany, since the benefits paid here to refugees are 4-5 times higher than they earn in their countries. According to available data, 350 thousand Kurds, 4 million Turks, and other immigrants from the Middle East live in this country today. Basically, from among the Kurds, groups have been formed that organize and ensure the transportation of migrants to Europe. The use of transit through Belarus has become a profitable and extremely cynical business. In search of a better life, people invest heavily in the services of intermediaries, in the purchase of air tickets and the hiring of vehicles.

"In addition, business is well organized in the Polish border zone, where migrants who broke through the Belarusian-Polish border are redirected to Germany for a certain amount of money." [My Emphasis]

I won't reproduce the entire narrative, but I will paste some further important remarks:

"At the same time, the European Union, which promised to build camps for migrants, abandoned its own initiative. Brussels continues to tell the world about European values, human rights, multiculturalism, and the open door policy. Meanwhile, migrants on the Polish border are poisoned with dogs, inhumanely watered with water cannons and fenced off with barbed wire, shot over heads, helicopters are lifted into the air to sweep up tents with air torrents....

"Europe needs to act, not to make recommendations. First of all, it is necessary to stop the business of transporting migrants. This should be done at the level of the European Union, as well as through its individual countries and their national special services and law enforcement agencies.

"At the same time, in order to permanently stop the uncontrolled migration flow, it is necessary to solve the problem at the root. The West should abandon its policy of interfering in the internal affairs of other countries, from imposing its beliefs by the use of brute military force....

"Quite right. In fact, having established its protectorate in Ukraine, the West destroyed the economy of this country, brought society to disenfranchisement, and certain segments of the population to poverty. At any moment, Ukraine could be on the ground so that millions of Ukrainians will flee to seek shelter elsewhere.

"Having sown chaos and destruction in the Middle East and North Africa, Westerners now wonder why the populations of these countries are moving en masse to other regions. At the same time, confusing cause and effect, the European authorities focused their efforts on aggressive criticism of Belarus, and at the same time Russia, accusing Minsk and Moscow of organizing the migration crisis. They molded Belarus into an image of an external enemy that allegedly threatens the tranquility of Europe. Based on this logic, we can say that the wind blows because the trees are swaying.

"What is happening today on the Belarusian-Polish border can also be regarded as the result of external pressure on Belarus. It was not possible to destroy the country's leadership, plunge the country into chaos, into protest marches, now they are trying to flood the state with migrants, undermine the social protection and health care system." [My Emphasis]

Patrushev effectively holds up a mirror for the collective West to look into to discover the causes of so much global chaos and hardship, but it's clear the West is blind to its own actions and sees nothing in the mirror as if it's a Vampire as many would attest. Patrushev the realist lays the blame correctly at the feet of the fantacistic West that clearly runs and hides from the truth to its own detriment.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 21:49 utc | 45

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 21:46 utc | 44

Yes Kangaroo Day, how did you guess? That's when we round up all the rednecks who advocate shootin' things with military grade weapons, put them through a show trial (hence, Kangaroo) and string those mofos as high as God'll have 'em. At 50000 per day I reckon we'd clean out the continental US o' A in about a decade. Look forward to meeting you. Happy Kangaroo Day!

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 21:57 utc | 46

Don Bacon @ 23

I’ve posted about the Crowns before. The Forbes number for their wealth is comically low. They have that 10 billion just from the sand and gravel. No need to boast. Main holding that was missed would be the now merged First National Bank of Chicago. Parlayed into a big stake in Chase. Rockefellers needed new blood. Going to your link the lady in the middle is the daughter of Junius Myer Schine. Lester married the mob. Let’s see, a bank, an arms manufacturer, mob connections, connections to two Kennedy assasinations, who needs an exact count how much money you got. Obama is usually said to have gone nowhere until Bill Daley took him under the wing. Bill has spent his life as Lester’s errand boy. Back in Lithuania the Crown/Krinsky family connected to Jagiellons and to Romanovs.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Nov 24 2021 21:58 utc | 47

Arbery was a victim of real vigilantism. Think Bernard Goetz, the subway vigilante.
And, no, there won’t be any protests over that case.
People understand the difference between Arbery and Rittenhouse cases, instinctually.
One was self defense, the other was the result of an illegal, armed posse.

Posted by: Cadence calls | Nov 24 2021 21:59 utc | 48

Thanks to Canadian Cents @ 22 -- Cynthia Chung it is, not Claudia. Sorry to have messed that up. And thanks to all providing a better link than I did.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 24 2021 22:00 utc | 49

@Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 21:46 utc | 44

They celebrate ANZAC (Australia and New Zealand Corp) Day, which commemorates the ritual slaughter of the flower of the country's youth on the altar of royal adulation and the desperate need to feel part of the "white" Anglo world. On the same date as the first landing at Gallipoli, the idiot move of Churchill (the First Lord of the Admiralty) which led to the pointless slaughter of so many. But the Aussies (and NZ) can't refer to them accurately as "sheep to the slaughter" so instead they call them heroes. Same for us Canadians with respect to the Dieppe raid, WW1 slaughter etc. At least we didn't go to Vietnam, unlike the Australians.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 24 2021 22:03 utc | 50

Washington, Congress and the WH, assume that voters are stupid. They gaslight us about gas shortages as the cause for high prices at the pump. It's those nasty OPEC people, they are not pumping enough oil. Is the best solution really to provide more oil by emptying US reserves? The USA exports about 3,000,000 barrels of oil/day! Our problem could be solved by stopping US oil exports for a quarter. That would also afford more time to get our storm-crippled refineries back on line which is a contributing factor.

Alternatively (or in addition), we could bring prices down globally faster by taking our foot off Venezuela's neck. That would flood the market with new crude driving down OPEC prices quickly. It would also end the stupid CIA-inspired waste of dollars to embargo a country because they have a dictator - as if we do not support dictatorships all over the world.

Posted by: Tomonthebeach | Nov 24 2021 22:19 utc | 51

Thanks, karlof1 for keeping us up to date on the Ukraine situation with regards to non-compliance with Minsk protocols by several major actors. I have'nt seen this careful scrutiny elsewhere, and it very much makes sense of the manner in which Russia is applying pressure in a non-confrontational way, very much as they have done since the original aggressive actions in Ukraine took many of us by surprise.

I can't help remembering that a part of the October standoff between the USSR and US during Kennedy years involved the placement of threatening missiles both in Cuba and in Turkey. I don't think US citizens were aware of the latter in that confrontation - it doesn't play large in what I was reading at the time, but came out later on. It is to be hoped that, as with covid information, there will be a final percolation down into the general population that this has never been about 'Russian aggression'. I have optimism on that front, due to the general disaffection with major news outlets. That is more widespread than some reports or polls would have us believe.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 24 2021 22:19 utc | 52

@karlof1, 45
Thanks for translating that Nikolai Patrushev interview. He was refreshingly blunt.

Posted by: cirsium | Nov 24 2021 22:23 utc | 53

Posted by: Patroklos @ 35 & Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer @ 19

You are right about recycling preference votes back to the Lib/Nats, it's an old trick. Most Australians don't know how the preferential voting system actually works. I have tried to explain it to Australians and foreigners a few times but they often don't get it.

The only advantage is it allows the voter to put the candidate they least like last. A difficult decision if you dislike them all. The system also serves to entrench a duopoly. But it is better than first past the post. The NZ system, modeled in part, by the German system and the Tasmanian Modified Hare Clark System is better.

I agree with you on the dogs breakfast of various state and federal Anti Religious Discrimination laws, new and old. Another lawyers picnic and an excuse for those who have hurt feelings and those ugly zionists who don't like criticism of the bandit state to engage in lawfare at the expense of those who practice free speech.

Little known and vanished from the sanitised internet is 'The Ethno-Religious Provisions of the [federal] Anti-Discrimination act.

These 'provisions] were similarly introduced around 1965 in the UK, Canada, Australia and NZ. the 'groups' were identified as "Jews, Muslims and Sikhs" but Muslims were dropped after a Muslim prisoner in the UK lost a court case to have halal food. This became the precedent to now only recognise Jews and Sikhs, despite the absence of being ethnically homogenous.

Shihks have never attempted to use these provisions anywhere. They are only there for company to maintain the plural 'groups.'

Jewish lawfare groups have used it often

Posted by: Paul | Nov 24 2021 22:31 utc | 54

Posted by: Roger | Nov 24 2021 22:03 utc | 50

ANZAC day is not a celebration of war but an injunction laid upon all Australians not to forget the tragedy of that loss. For that reason all wars in which Australians have been entangled are included in the act of remembrance. The symbols of this are the poppy, which blooms on the grave of the poor souls who died, and which recollects the image of the fallen warrior in the Iliad, and the sprig of rosemary, another funereal token, a wreath of fragrant renewal. For that reason ANZAC day is conducted like a funeral, laying of wreaths and collective recognition of the useless waste of young life. The command laid on us——"Lest We Forget"——is an attempt to remind the present never to be hasty to send young men to their deaths.

My grandfather served in the RAAF as warrant officer and radio-operator in WW2. His Beaufort reconnaissance plane was lost off the coast of New Guinea in January 1944 after a Japanese raid. He is still listed in the Australian War Memorial as MIA. My mother was only 3 months old; he never met his daughter. He was 27. When I visit Canberra I place a poppy in the wall next to his name. That was not a useless slaughter because we were, or sincerely thought we were, fighting for our existence. But it is not only I and my mother who remember him and the fear and horror he must have faced up there. ANZAC day is a collective attempt at memory, not a flag-waving triumphal gloating over enemies, but a day full of tears, sadness, and frustration over the emptiness and waste of war.

So while you and Gruff mock Australia and carry on with your righteous view that you can poke fun but others can't (anyone remember vk?), I would point out that other Aussies on this board, and there are a few, would venerate ANZAC day too. And that's not an imperialist Anglo-sphere gesture, just a chance to get together with my mum and say, I wish I'd known my grandad.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 22:39 utc | 55

Lurk #15 in previous week in review.

Anyway, you have never addressed this article: "Serologic Testing of US Blood Donations to Identify Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)–Reactive Antibodies: December 2019–January 2020"

IMHO it suggests that millions of Americans had been exposed to the coronavirus by the time it was first officially identified in Wuhan. This would radically alter the narrative about coronavirus' origins.

the link:

Thank you, this is the science that is essential when digging for foundation knowledge. I notice it was published one year ago - November 2020.
I trust this has been followed up in Italy, UK etc.

Your contributions are always respected.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 24 2021 22:50 utc | 56

@9 Juliania

I appreciate and celebrate your highly evolved, kind, and constructive perspective, Juliania. You set an excellent and valuable example.
More broadly, one of the aspects of current existence that I give thanks for is the privilege of reading the thoughts from b and MoA's commentariat.

b, while I understand that Germany doesn't celebrate Thanksgiving, I hope you'll do a little dance, and celebrate all that you've been able to accomplish, with a little help from your commentariat friends.

A toast to all my philosophical friends and foes alike here at MoA.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Nov 24 2021 23:01 utc | 57

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 22:39 utc | 55

Good post. Lest we forget the NZ in ANZAC day, it is also commemorated in Aotearoa with not quite so much marching as in Australia.

My great uncle died at Gallipoli, a real ANZAC.

My dad enlisted and became an army officer. My mom was an airforce cipher operator and instructor in WW2. My dad taught me about the Geneva Conventions when I was a boy.

ANZAC day is a good excuse to have a beer and play 2 up.

I wish for no more wars.

Posted by: Paul | Nov 24 2021 23:31 utc | 58

To our Aussie Barflies--

When I was in Izmir, Turkey, I met a grand group of Aussies on pilgrimage to the Gallipoli Memorial to do what Pilgrims do--Pay Homage. I was there to do the something similar as there's very little of Troy to observe. We enjoyed many bottles of Izmir's fine pilsner while watching the movie Gallipoli. Lots of solemnity during and after the film and while at the Memorial the next day. Then we parted ways. Lots of reverence from that mostly male group; they all had connections to someone who participated, several spending hours browsing the cemeteries looking for gravestones. Most Americans are ignorant of Australia's beginnings; I learned on my own via Hughes's The Fatal Shore: The Epic of Australia's Founding. I also learned a lot from one of Australia's singular thinkers and excellent photographer Reg Morrison author of The Spirit in the Gene: Humanity's Proud Illusion and the Laws of Nature.

Not unlike Aussie's initial British masters, many were brutalized by your government taking advantage of the pandemic to enact draconian policies, and more than a few well understand why the lack of an independent Australian policy in global affairs. At least there's lots of bush to get lost in if you must.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 23:32 utc | 59

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 24 2021 23:32 utc | 59

You are a scholar and a gentleman. Robert Hughes book is a masterpiece——tendentious, idiosyncratic, but seminal. A must read to get to grips with this country which is so riddled with inherited contradictions. Gallipoli is also a great film, a paean to the futility of a war we entered for all the wrong reasons, and a timely reminder that Australia is still haunted, and perhaps always will be so, by its awful past: colonial self-loathing, reverence for corrupt oligarchs, unfathomable guilt for the destruction of the ancient people who lived here first, craven fealty to the US/UK, crippled by xenophobia, complete lack of faith in the possibility of an independent place in the world (as you say). An adolescent nation run by crooks but inhabited by brilliant, insecure, schizoid people who are defiant toward the whole world. Never has a nation with such potential achieved so little, so reluctant to make the leap...

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 23:46 utc | 60

Patroklos @55: "ANZAC day is not a celebration of war but an injunction laid upon all Australians not to forget the tragedy of that loss."

[Gruff heaves a sigh of relief] Good thing that you remember, otherwise you might get tangled up in another pointless war and commit some war crimes.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 23:50 utc | 61

Patroklos @46: "That's when we round up all the rednecks..."

There is something other than rednecks in Australia? Honest question. I'm a little surprised.

No offense, I see rednecks as humans too.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 23:53 utc | 62

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 23:50 utc | 61

I've never read anyone on this thread who registers as a vicious c*nt quite like you. You really are a nasty piece of work. The hypocrisy that you would troll Australians here but escape b's ban for this kind of unnecessary rudeness mystifies me. Read karlof1's post @59: that is civility. You sir have no honour.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 23:56 utc | 63

uncle tungsten | Nov 24 2021 22:50 utc | 56

...donors resident in 9 states (California, Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington, and Wisconsin) were tested...

Is there a frikken Fredericksberg* located in any of those sample areas?

First off, seems an awkward sampling pattern. Second off, smells like a mis-director. True, could have been an honest effort as a 3rd-grade science project. /s

* home of Ft. Detrick in Maryland

And the source

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 25 2021 0:00 utc | 64

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 24 2021 23:53 utc | 62

Here's an honest question: why would you just gratuitously mock us by saying Kangaroo Day in the first place? Classic trolling laced with utter contempt. I'll all for a critical debate about Australia's complicity in global crimes, but why get personal? And why make fun of something you know nothing about. Oh wait, my bad: you're American.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 25 2021 0:00 utc | 65

The three neo-confederates convicted in the Arbery lynching case will face federal hate crimes charges.

After leaving the JCPOA and sanctioning Iranian oil, the USA is now importing record amount of Russian fuel to replace sanctioned venezuelan oil. Maximum pressure and cretinism. Or how to spite your face to make America great ? The last coup by Trump and Florida reactionaries failed, expect a new attempt soon. Result of latest elections and popular sentiment in Venezuela point to another debacle...

Another case of stable genius policies bearing fruits. Republican nativists and Trump (build the wall) used the pandemic as a guise to enact broad immigration restrictions when public health experts said there was no need. And look how quickly everyone in the United states is now facing the consequences. Working age labor shortages and rising food prices are now a pressing public health crisis. Oligarchs and plutoctrats acknowledge the shortfall's wrecking the american economy.

The dupes in flyover country appear eager to experience more pain and ''winning''. Russia and China are licking their chops at the prospect of a do-over. Trump 2024, lol :)

Posted by: Boss Tweet | Nov 25 2021 0:07 utc | 66

Patroklos @65

Need I remind you that you are the one to initiate the ranting about holidays? That deserved a little needling, no?

Needling: Canada is America's hat. What does that make Australia? America's jockstrap.

It is unfortunate that you are triggered by the contempt of an American. Now buy a submarine and pipe down.

Sounds harsh, but prove me wrong.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 25 2021 0:13 utc | 67

re: Patroklos | Nov 24 2021 23:56 utc | 63

the billy goat gruff is fond of his guns is he not?

Posted by: tucenz | Nov 25 2021 0:21 utc | 68

tucenz @68

Nah, submarines baby! The ultimate gay phallic symbol! You should buy one too. We got a lightly used one for cheap. It's got a little ding up front, but that'll buff right out.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 25 2021 0:28 utc | 69

Jared & Juliania
Appreciate your thoughts. As an Irish German Mexican catholic (ex) I continue to draw on the memory of my parents, cousins, stories and readings of my people who were formed by the stories of Jesus. I have long ago left the institution behind but I keep looking over my shoulder and contemplating the persona of Jesus and the values ascribed to the man in the stories I was told. Blessed are the poor in spirit. Humility will make you strong... and wise.
thank you both

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 25 2021 0:29 utc | 70

@ Patroklos ( & William Gruff )
William Gruff is a strange one. I read his posts, and at times he comes across as a total right winger, then he quotes Lenin regarding guns in the hands of the proletariat.

-see comment 288 on the Kyle Rittenhouse thread

I think he is here to disrupt our civil conversations. I mean, can't he come up with a better insult to an Australian than kangaroo?
Whatever. What do I know, aside from the fact that I don't.

But I do love music. This is my MoA theme song.

Jahmiga - Whiskey Bar

Try and top that one, james! ;)

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 25 2021 0:30 utc | 71

Posted by: Roger | 50

They celebrate ANZAC (Australia and New Zealand Corp) Day

We observe ANZAC Day. We celebrate Australia Day. Not the same thing. Like the difference between Easter and Christmas.

Posted by: Kukulcan | Nov 25 2021 0:42 utc | 72


There is no labor shortage, there is a wages shortage. Housing inflation and multi-decade wage stagnation is pushing the working class into poverty and homelessness. The problem is understated in the media. The various corporate yuppies who benefit from real estate/rent inflation and low wages which make their mutual funds more profitable like to pretend the homeless crisis is a mental health/addiction issue. The reality is the visible homeless are the tip of the iceberg.

So the dupes are right(on this one anyway), excessive immigration is driving millions into poverty. Oligarchs and Plutocrats acknowledge the labor shortage...LMFAO....what kind of argument is that? Of course they want cheaper labor and rising housing costs, squeeze out some more late stage capitalism profits before the system finishes devouring itself.

There is no labor shortage in America...there is a wages shortage. Any one who doesn't acknowledge that doesn't work for a living.

You are right that China and Russia are licking their chops as the USA guts the last of the working class who are responsible for what little value the USA produces. China and Russia are also licking their chops because the dupes in flyover country are the heart of the military, by casting them aside, global corporate fascism loses its enforcer

Gleefully cheering on the parasites devouring it's host will not serve you in the long-run, but Neocons are short-sighted.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 25 2021 0:46 utc | 73

Need I remind you that you are the one to initiate the ranting about holidays?

I was hardly 'ranting'. I was simply pointing out that Americans think the whole world is America (thus even well-meaning Americans say things like "I'm not sure if you celebrate Thanksgiving in Germany but..." which is frankly bizarre and points to inbred parochialism. I could see a similar variant being: "I'm not sure if you celebrate Thanksgiving in California like we do in West Virginia but..."). And you proved my point by scoring zero on general knowledge about Australia (no, the capital is not Vienna). Karlof1 on the other hand is a pure exception, but one that sadly proves the rule.

Gruff is an adolescent wind-up merchant, a troll who enjoys crossing boundaries to get a rise out of people. Fair enough, more fool me for taking the bait I guess. I didn't hear him that much before but now that b is banning people who disagree with Gruff his noise has become more intrusive. I suspect I'll be next. Soon MoA will just be b's post followed by a conversation between lurk, Gruff and c1ue.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 25 2021 0:46 utc | 74

This seems interesting:

Watch: US, European Diplomats Secretly Plan Ethiopian ‘Transition Government’ With TPLF Leader

Video footage has emerged of several Western diplomats meeting with leaders of the Tigray People’s Liberation Front (TPLF), showing them frankly discussing plans to overthrow Ethiopia’s democratically-elected president, Abiy Ahmed. Abiy arrived at the front lines on Wednesday to take personal control over the effort to halt the TPLF’s offensive.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 25 2021 0:53 utc | 75

Can Gruff be a bigger dick than he has been recently? Possibly yes, but most likely no.

Why do you tolerate this b?

He used to be someone I actively sought out to see what he had to say. For nearly a year now I find his comments to be pure assholery.


Somebody needs to take away his keyboard.

Posted by: David F | Nov 25 2021 1:08 utc | 76


Where is my museum
selective holocaust
there have been so many My Lai's
since humanity was lost

Napalm in the Morning
the smell of burning meat
from the children on the kill boards
of United States elite

Posted by: ld | Nov 25 2021 1:08 utc | 77

Perhaps I am reading Gruff wrong, but underneath the aggressive arguments he seems to be saying USA, Canada, England, Australia, NZ are all one, the AngloZionist Empire, founded on genocide and war crimes. All elect awful leaders, Scott Morison is worse then Trump, same for BoJo.

Where is the resistance to imperialism in Australia? Why do Canadians support Nazi Ukraine? The population of New Zealand is as xenophobic towards China as in the USA.

The biggest difference I can see between Anglo-America and Anglo-Australia is the American population isn't 100% beaten into subjugation. Other then that, we are the same.

It seems to be fashionable to shit on Americans, and that is fine, we deserve it, but the rest of Five Eyes is no less guilty.

Fortunately, the USA is crumbling, and the rate of collapse is accelerating. What kind of foreign policy will Australia have when it can't hide behind the alpha dog and yap at China?

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 25 2021 1:11 utc | 78

Given the topicality of refugees and migrants the basis of this song is apt =

How good was Paul's German?

Posted by: tucenz | Nov 25 2021 1:20 utc | 79


And the only way to say that is by being as inflammatory and offensive as the English language allows?

Fuck Gruff. Somebody put him to bed, he is obviously past his due date.

Posted by: David F | Nov 25 2021 1:30 utc | 80

lex talionis @71

There was some discussion is the previous "Week in Review" thread about what "left" and "right" really mean these days. Some good arguments were made that we should just drop the terms because they have become too polluted with conflicting definitions. Take for instance if you attempt to insult someone by claiming that they are a right winger, with you thinking that means someone who likes to burn crosses in Black Americans' yards. What then if the target of your insult thinks "right winger" means someone who cherishes and respects personal responsibility and commitment to their family and community, even when that community includes Black Americans? What have you succeeded in communicating?

I don't agree with the argument to just ditch the left-right model because there is too much history bound to it. I think it is worthwhile to try to piece together what it has represented and separate out our misconceptions so that the historical usage of the terms can be meaningful. For example, I would argue that the greatest "leftist" achievements in recent history (last couple hundred years) have been socialist revolutions. Russia, China, Cuba, etc. Currently "leftism" in America, and to a degree Europe, is defined by "Identity Politics", but in the great socialist revolutions was it personal identity that people were putting their lives on the line for? To be certain the socialists concerned themselves with disadvantaged minorities, but is that really what they fought for? In the big successes of the far right minority groups were often targeted, but does that really encompass what they stood for?

I would argue that when we sort these issues out that many who now self-identify as right wing would grudgingly admit that they are leftist, and likewise many who consider themselves on the left would actually have to acknowledge that they are right wingers.

Consider this: The only reason many of those who consider themselves "leftists" in contemporary America vilify "deplorables" is because they mistakenly believe that "deplorables" are a weak, disenfranchised, and easily targeted demographic. The only reason "deplorables" are at all antagonistic to those who call themselves "left" is because those people are unjustly accusing the "deplorables" of things that have nothing to do with them. Are unjust accusations made against perceived weak minorities right wing or left wing behavior, do you think?

Granted, people who self-identify as left will interpret that question differently from people who self-identify as right, so until we can get on the same page with our definitions then communication will fail, as intended by the capitalist elites who control mass communication (media) and education.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 25 2021 1:31 utc | 81

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 25 2021 1:11 utc | 78

If you're speaking of Anglozionists wars they all had submitted to it including US America. The last big anti war demonstrations happen in the run up and during early Iraq War where there's significant presence of war veterans also advocating against them. Afterwards there's no real anti war movement in any of the anglo countries.

What you call resistance in USA is misdirected aggression against each others feeding and growing both sides dissatisfaction that originally caused by their own states function failures to each others.

Posted by: Lucci | Nov 25 2021 1:33 utc | 82

I have to say that in some respects Roger @ 50 is correct, that increasingly ANZAC Day in Australia is becoming a day for tub-thumping celebration of Australia's armed forces and less a day to remember the fallen war dead and the suffering and destruction that war causes. The slogan associated with ANZAC Day "Lest we forget" is less a call to remember those who gave their lives selflessly and more often than not for senseless and unnecessary reasons understood mainly by military historians studying World War I, and more a call for people especially young people to fall into line and demonstrate their loyalty and patriotism through correct thinking (that is, believing what our poodle press say about Western actions in the world vis-a-vis those of Russia, China and any other designated enemy nation) and action (as in, joining the armed forces).

It seems that in most years, whenever ANZAC Day comes around, there is always a dispute over whether to allow families of long-dead war fallen to march in the ANZAC city parades as a separate yet integral group similar to the Immortal Regiment march that has become popular over the past decade in Victory Day marches in countries of the former Soviet Union and increasingly around the world (including Australia) in similar parades commemorating the war dead; and over whether families of victims of war can be allowed to march as well. This surely bespeaks an ongoing struggle between Australian political elites and the Australian general public over the control of the meaning of ANZAC Day and how the day should be remembered.

The change in the observance of ANZAC Day is reflected in the increasing prominence of Remembrance Day (November 11) in Australia as the day to remember the fallen war dead. Not so long ago, observing a few minutes of silence in workplaces on November 11 at 11am in Australia would have been unthinkable; these days this custom is becoming much more common in many workplaces. If Australians more and more observe Remembrance Day, then what has the purpose of observing ANZAC Day become?

Posted by: Jen | Nov 25 2021 1:37 utc | 83


This from the man who has made 50 posts recently calling anyone who disagrees with him a "woketard".

You have no credibility. You blew it. Go away.

Posted by: David F | Nov 25 2021 1:40 utc | 84

lots of snipers today
I suspect vk is at the root of much venom and he isn't even here lol

Posted by: ld | Nov 25 2021 1:44 utc | 85

Australia's De Facto National Holiday in Melbourne Cup, the whole country stops! ANZAC etc are establishment promoted events, Melbourne Cup is a spontaneous one !

Posted by: Grishka | Nov 25 2021 1:48 utc | 86

@81 - I fully agree. Although, within the scope of my limited education, it seems that "socialist" political structures are less conducive to individual freedoms within the larger context of the state. I don't like dictatorships, even if it's the dictatorship of the proletariat. I will take the messed up United States over any other place. I fully support and express my right to bear arms. I guess it just makes me feel better.

And I appreciate you exposing me to Lenin's quote -

"An oppressed class which does not strive to learn to use arms, to acquire arms, only deserves to be treated like slaves."

Maybe just try to be a little less abrasive on the message board. We all appreciate what you have to offer!

EPMD - You Gots to Chill

I gots to chill, too. Happy Turkey Day. I guess unless one lives in Turkey today. Hyerinflation, coming to your country next!

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 25 2021 1:48 utc | 87

How about Jamie Dimon for the foot-in-mouth award? The CEO of JP Morgan just said the bank would outlive the CPP. Only joking of course.

"The Communist Party is celebrating its 100th year. So is JPMorgan," he said, referring to the bank's recent celebration of a century of operation in China. "And I'll make a bet we last longer."
"I can't say that in China," Dimon added with a chuckle. "They probably are listening anyway."

Posted by: dh | Nov 25 2021 2:02 utc | 88

@82 Lucci

I took part in the Iraq War Protests on the west coast of the USA. Like Obama's first election, it was a moment filled with optimism, that we as a nation were moving in the right direction. Like Obama's election, it also proved to be fool's gold. The Obama Administration itself bringing destruction and ethnic cleansing to a list of countries....Honduras, Syria, Libya, Ukraine just to name the most obvious. In each case the Obama Administration supported the fascists over leftists.

Since then I have lost hope that there is anything worth salvaging in the AngloZionist world. The best thing we can do as a country is collapse in an orgy of blood and violence and let the rest of the world go on without us.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 25 2021 2:05 utc | 89

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 25 2021 1:48 utc | 87

The 'socialist' are never less conductive with individual freedom, they're less conductive to individual accruement of 'wealth' that they see directly as the challenges of forming a real egalitarian society where an individual compete as individuals fairly instead of coming as sons of aristocrats that had advantages over their other peers that wasn't one.
That was it. That's the reason why there would be many that advocating them where inequalities is high but not where there's more middle class.

Posted by: Lucci | Nov 25 2021 2:14 utc | 90

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 24 2021 19:23 utc | 23 About the poll on Taiwan, pasted from the link
Key Findings
• The American public supports a range of US policies in support of Taiwan. Majorities favor US recognition of Taiwan as an independent country (69%), supporting its inclusion in international organizations (65%), and signing a US-Taiwan free trade agreement (57%).
• A slimmer majority (53%) support the United States' signing a formal alliance with Taiwan, and a plurality (46%) favor explicitly committing to defend Taiwan if China invades.
• When asked about a range of potential scenarios, just over half of Americans (52%) favor using US troops to defend if China were to invade the island. This is the highest level ever recorded in the Council’s surveys dating back to 1982, when the question was first asked.
It reminds me that last week (? I am a bit hazy on exact dates), UK committed a unit of engineering troops, 10 men strong, to the defense of Ukraine. From what I know about the opinions of "real Americans", it goes roughly like that "Taiwan/Ukraine love freedom so we should support them". However, it would be more informative to ask:
how many billions of USDs in subsidy should USA budget to support, and
how many thousands of casualties should USA be ready to risk,
with options like 0-9, 10-99, 100-999, 1000 or more
In other words, how the vague "principle" translates into actual support.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 25 2021 2:21 utc | 91

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 25 2021 1:11 utc | 78

I agree with your assessment, but there are ways of having the conversation that don't involve personal slurs. My point was that Americans, by virtue of 75 years of geopolitical, financial and cultural hegemony, tend to assume that the rest of the world is America. When they visit, say, Rome, they behave as if it were a theme park no different to Disneyworld in form even though it may be different in content. As a historical and intellectual community the USA has its moments of extraordinary brilliance, but its awareness of cultural difference is very low. Hence my original remark which was to observe that many of the US commenters here act as though Thanksgiving was a world-wide event. Some visiting US academics have even asked me what do we do for Thanksgiving in Australia and are shocked when I reply that we don't celebrate it. Can you imagine being shocked to learn Tibetans don't celebrate Christmas?

Gruff responded by more or less making a joke about Australia not having national holidays worth knowing anything about. It was derisive and meant to be a put down. Now I agree with you that Australia as a global actor is complicit in everything you say, mainly directed by a government who represent the interests of mining, real estate and big corporations. But Australia is also a place with a unique history and culture that I, for better or worse, regard as my own history and culture. My family and identity is intertwined with it. Some of that I respect and revere, including our main national holiday, ANZAC Day, whose significance I tried to explain above. I expected the Americans here to understand the nuance I was trying to draw out; Karlof1 certainly responded to that with a very incisive post. Other Americans too might look at that national event and recognise the spirit since it is not only Australian, but belongs to New Zealand too. It recognises young men who were sacrificed to agendas they barely understood, which is tragic. Gruff, however, doubled-down on cringe-worthy trolling by reinforcing the American caricature of privileged culturally-autistic bubble-boys who know nothing outside their borders (state-borders!) and are proud of their ignorance.

Happy to talk about SAS war-crimes in Afghanistan, Aussie complicity in 5 Eyes, US hegemony, climate cynicism, etc etc. Just learn a bit about us first so you don't sound like a teenage know-all who's only ever the read the back of every book he's picked up.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 25 2021 2:23 utc | 92

please stop

Posted by: ld | Nov 25 2021 2:32 utc | 93

@92 Patroklos

Ah, yes, I see your point...the Ugly American syndrome is indeed real...Karlof1 is a class act and first rate scholar, after b, he is the reason I come to MoA.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 25 2021 2:36 utc | 94

Wait, wut? Who was banned and why?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2021 2:37 utc | 95

About Kangaroo day:

This Sunday I went on bicycle to join a hike into local hills. On the bike trail I was a bit surprised by two riders dressed in orange, head to toe. Orange is used in these parts as a way to signal to hunters that you are not the legal game of the day. But typically, no hunting is allowed on Sunday. Once in the hills, it was nice and tranquil until we started to hear gunfire. From one direction, rather muted, but from the other, not muted at all! We pulled our orange stuff from the knapsacks. Afterwards I checked that indeed, some hunting seasons include selected Sundays, and this week, it was time from some birds like ruffled grouse (that would explain the relatively muted gunshots) and bears.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 25 2021 2:37 utc | 96

Posted by: Jen | Nov 25 2021 1:37 utc | 83

Good points that are quite right: the territorial battle over the meaning and significance of the tradition is part of the political landscape in Oz.

Posted by: ld | Nov 25 2021 2:32 utc | 93

Jeez, I hardly ever post but OK, I will stop. Gruff just really pissed me off and it seemed unfair that he could troll with impunity in the wake of vk's ban.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 25 2021 2:49 utc | 97

@ Lucci - Perhaps. What do I really know about socialism? It was stupid of me to have even waded into the topic.
I have only lived in the USA. What I know only comes to me from my two trips to Cuba where people were really not into the neighborhood snitch - I forgot what they called them - algo en la defensa de la revolucción - and from people that grew up in the Soviet Union who told me that the nomenklatura got all the good stuff and the proles, not so much. Women were better off than before, one could get an education, just don't piss off your superiors.
None of them pine for the days of Chernyenko or Brezhnev or Gorbachev. And most of them detest Yeltsin. Most of them like and respect Putin.
I don't know. I am not a big fan of government in any way, shape or form. I have often wondered, though, why haven't countries from the former Soviet Union sought to go back to the old ways, if socialism was such a good system.
I think a mixed economy is best. I might be wrong. I prefer regular capitalism to state run capitalism any day.
And I am all for individual accruement of 'wealth,' though. After all, I am from the USA.
I'm in over my head. I won't talk anymore. I'm just gonna nurse my drink in the corner.

I love MoA and everyone here! Well, mostly everyone. ;)

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 25 2021 2:53 utc | 98

Why was Vk banned ? I found many of his posts to be thoughtful. The bar is now openly banning leftists to please reactionaries ?

Posted by: Boss tweet | Nov 25 2021 2:54 utc | 99

apologies in advance
I am asking the barflies to watch this... even the Americans and British will laff.
Russell Brand at his finest LOL

Posted by: ld | Nov 25 2021 3:07 utc | 100

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