Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 11, 2021

Why Do Editors Seek 'Dark Sides' Of China?

There seems to be an inflationary fascination with supposedly 'dark sides' of China:

The 'dark sides' of China meme did not only start after China had send the goddess Chang'e and Yutu the jade rabbit to the far side of the moon to look for the elixir of life.

There are quite a number of previous occurrences.

One wonders how such 'dark side' and 'weaponizing' memes happen ...

Posted by b on October 11, 2021 at 15:35 UTC | Permalink

next page »

'Throwing shade' is just something propagandists do.

Just as important to them as conflating issues and jingoist messaging.

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All Our Problems Are Built On Us-Vs-Them Propaganda

When you use the military to eliminate opposition, everyone knows it happened. When you use propaganda to eliminate opposition, people aren’t even aware you did it. They think it was their own idea to suddenly become super concerned about Saddam or Putin or Maduro or whomever or to go along with this or that power-serving agenda. Beyond the hard, concrete realities of war and militarism there’s a whole other war being fought on a far greater scale and of far greater consequence, and most people don’t even know it’s happening: the mass-scale psychological manipulation of the entire human species.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 11 2021 15:50 utc | 1

Hello b and thanks for the posting

At the end you ask a rhetorical question
One wonders how such 'dark side' and 'weaponizing' memes happen ...

Could it be that they are planned by the elite as part of an ongoing process?

How about if we look at the dark side of global private finance? After all, isn't this dark side shit just a projection of the Western elite?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 11 2021 15:55 utc | 2

So interesting, thanks for highlighting this. Propaganda certainly - consider the sources of most of these stories, but also a complete lack of imagination from editors who fashion story titles and whose interest is solely to grab click-throughs.

The larger point is the world view of the 'west' to always live in tension, stress, competition, conflict, war. There is a deep disease in those few elites who run the world. Bill Gates is absolutely bat-shit crazy, and he is but a visible tip of a bat-shit crazy iceberg.

The only threat to China is exactly the insanity that runs the 'west' that views nuclear obliteration as a competitive advantage.

Posted by: gottlieb | Oct 11 2021 16:06 utc | 3

Well, somebody's gotta say it (or sing it):

"The Sound Of Silence"

Hello, darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence

In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
'Neath the halo of a streetlamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence

And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
No one dared
Disturb the sound of silence

"Fools," said I, "You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you."
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence

And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said, "The words of the prophets
Are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls
And whispered in the sounds of silence."


Posted by: juliania | Oct 11 2021 16:07 utc | 4

I think the Americans are watching too much Star Wars.

On a more serious note, I think there are three factors that results in this fanatic propaganda warfare against China:

1) contrary to nazism, fascism, anarchism etc. etc. - which are just childish fantasies - socialism/communism is a legitimate system that can concretely overcome and thus extinguish capitalism. In other words, China, as the socialist pole of the 21st Century, is the true successor of the USSR (the first ever Proletarian government), therefore an existential threat to capitalism (i.e. the West, Western Civilization);

2) we live in a period where humanity is in flux, i.e. we live in uncertain times, where everything can happen. When everything can happen, every tactic seems legitimate. That's why we see these lamentable, cringe events happening in the West nowadays.

3) contrary to the USSR - where ideology collapsed first, the economy collapsed second - what we're observing in the West (North Atlantic + Japan) nowadays is a scenario where the economy collapsed first, but the ideology didn't (yet). Combined with factor #2, we can deduce a period of latency, where the economy collapsed, but its propaganda machine superstructure still didn't realize its base is not there anymore. Thus the Western propagandists continue to do what they were trained and paid to do, without any conscience the economic base that injected sense and due context to them disappeared. They're the Wile E. Coyote (over the precipice) of the present geopolitical world.

Posted by: vk | Oct 11 2021 16:10 utc | 5

Some darkness is friendly. Simon and Garfunkel of course. When folk came home to roost. It's our heritage, young'uns; live and learn.

Posted by: juliania | Oct 11 2021 16:11 utc | 6

Good post. Thank you

Posted by: harold | Oct 11 2021 16:14 utc | 7

Thank you for posting the extent to which our propaganda is centrally controlled. Ten minutes hate! And we'll try not to increase your or our vocabulary. Oh, I forgot this is also a fine example of "New Speak". Orwell was so on the money.

Posted by: Michael | Oct 11 2021 16:18 utc | 8

@ juliania | Oct 11 2021 16:07 utc | 4 with the words to The Sound of Silence

Go listen to this sung by the group Disturbed who have made it into a REAL protest song....and Paul said good work to them

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 11 2021 16:30 utc | 9

@Juliania 4: I was thinking more along the lines of Eddie & the Cruisers (on the dark side, oh yeah).

@#9: Disturbed turned a perfectly good song to shit. As for Paul Simon, he got paid so of course he likes it.

Posted by: Woogs | Oct 11 2021 16:41 utc | 10

They're very old, b, and go back to the Opium Wars. In the USA, it got a big boost with the Chinese Exclusion Act that was passed 5 years before the Statue of Liberty's arrival. This poster ad tells much when you use your zoom to read the header and footer. US attitude toward Asians was similar to Chinese. Filipinos were too stupid to govern themselves, which was one of the rationales used to enslave that nation after 1898 in its initial War OF Terror killing over a million innocents. Much can be learned from the invasion of Japan by Perry in 1854 while the Opium Wars raged versus China. That act is presented as something good and progressive while the US's part in the Opium Wars goes unmentioned in US History texts. Then there's the actions of the Colonial Powers during the Boxer Rebellion which caused the already Unequal Treaties to get even worse. China's treatment at Versailles where Germany's Manchurian Colony was ceded to Japan is another example of what China calls its Humiliation that it will never allow itself to undergo again. Perhaps the best overall treatment of the West's view of the Inscrutable East is the late Edward Said's Orientalism followed by the reception given Martin Bernal's Black Athena, which showed extreme academic bias and racism very alive and well in the 1990s. As I've written numerous times, you must be carefully taught, and the invocation of George Lucas's "Dark Side" is merely an old ploy using a new theme. Oh, and we shouldn't forget how the Koreans then the Vietnamese were Gooks to be humanized so easier to destroy. Nor should Japanese "Internment" and the vile propaganda used in their depiction. Then within the USA and elsewhere you had racism combine with the clannish nature of all immigrants to coalesce in their own "towns" within bigger cities where Chinatowns and Japantowns still remain today.

The western term for the Mongols as they rolled westward in the 13th century was Horde, as if they were all consuming locusts. Europe and its peoples were very lucky that the Great Khan died when he did as the Mongols stopped their drive to the English Channel and subjugation of what remained of Europe to return to Mongolia and contest for the throne. The one major European land that did experience Mongol rule was Russia, and that experience remains within much of what it is to be Russian, one of the reasons why Russians are treated as Asians via Russophobia. Underlying the struggle in today's world is the effort to destroy the vestiges of Colonialism and the racism that accompanied it. Once the Eurasian Bloc completes its rise and lends a hand to the African Bloc, most of that past will be remedied to an extent; yet, there still remains Mexico, South America and the Caribbean region to be completely liberated from the chains of their colonial past. With luck, by 2100 the world's geopolitical balance will finally be more equitable with all nations able to enjoy the fruits of the Four Freedoms amiably.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11 2021 16:43 utc | 11

Posted by: juliania | Oct 11 2021 16:11 utc | 6

Silence is better than bullshit. Silence is better than a lot of things. A little silence never hurt anybody.

Thanks for that, it has been a while.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 11 2021 16:45 utc | 12

psychohistorian@9, thanks very much. It always was a protest song. And b points out extremely effectively that the darkness is not that of China but of those who try to paint China as Russia was painted with the word 'weaponize'. That really worked, didn't it?

Hello darkness my old friend. I love that line. It has the whiff of creation, just a superb poem in my book, the old one. And it always was a protest song!

Posted by: juliania | Oct 11 2021 16:48 utc | 13

b asked;

"Why Do Editors Seek 'Dark Sides' Of China?"

Because ALL competitors to our corporate empire must be "shaded" to help ensure our economic hegemony.

Since our elites shipped thousands of factories to China, it's 'kinda funny they're whining about it now.

This guy had it right;

Posted by: vetinLA | Oct 11 2021 16:52 utc | 14

Seriously, though, good job b. It all looks rather ridiculous when assembled together. Spread out over 15 years, it's not so obvious. Does it go back even further to China's ascension to the WTO? In any case, it all amounts to railing against our own creation. Western nations were given a 12 year window in which to limit Chinese imports in order to adjust and shore up their markets back in 2001. No one took advantage of that. They were too busy raking in tbe profits so it's a little late for all the hand-wringing now.

Welcome to the dark side!! (brought to you by your friendly neighborhood capitalist).

Posted by: Woogs | Oct 11 2021 16:56 utc | 15

Edward W. Said "Orientalism"


"Thus whatever good or bad values were imputed to the Orient appeared to be the function of some highly specialised Western interest in the Orient. This was the situation from about the 1870s on through the early part of the twentieth century - but let me give some examples that illustrate what I mean.

Theses of Oriental backwardness, degeneracy, and inequality with the West most easily associated themselves early in the nineteenth century with the ideas about the biological bases of racial inequality. Thus the racial classifications found in Cuviers "Le Règne animal", Gobineau's "Essai sur l'inégalité des races humaines" and Robert Knox's "The Dark Races of Man" found a willing partner in latent Orientalism. To these ideas was added second-order Darwinism, which seemed to accentuate the 'scientific' validity of the division of the reaces into advanced and backward, or European -Aryan and Orientel-African. Thus the whole question of imperialism..."

Posted by: Andrew | Oct 11 2021 17:10 utc | 16

We can also see this "Dark Side" as Projection. Today in Kunming, China the COP-15 began, the 15th meeting of the Conference of the Parties to the UN Convention on Biological Diversity. In this one area related to development, China has rapidly reversed its own situation while other nations throw mud but actually have zero standing to do so:

"The US has never signed the Convention on Biological Diversity as it severely damaged biodiversity during domestic industrialization and extinguished a large number of species. It is not willing to pay the price or take responsibility for biodiversity conservation, Li Junfeng, former director general of China's National Center of Climate Change Strategy Research under the National Development and Reform Commission, told the Global Times."

"However, in recent years, some Western countries including the US have turned a blind eye to China's achievements on biodiversity conservation and accused China of endangering wildlife with fishing and damaging rainforests.

"China received unfair attention on environmental protection, such as when mentioning China and environment, some people often say ecological destruction, Hughes said. But 'China has done a lot to change that in the last 10 years through campaigns like the 'Beautiful China' initiative and the war on air pollution.'"

But what about this particular conference, and why is it being held in China?

"Themed 'Ecological Civilization: Building a Shared Future for All Life on Earth,' the meeting is the first global conference convened by the UN on the topic of ecological civilization.

"Participants in the meeting are expected to review the 'post-2020 global biodiversity framework' to draw a blueprint for biodiversity conservation in the future during the first part of the meeting in Kunming. The post framework will replace the Aichi Biodiversity Targets, which was set in 2010.

"The second part of the meeting, to be held in person in the first half of 2022, will see broad and deepened negotiations toward an ambitious and practical framework.

"Han made three proposals at the meeting - upholding multilateralism to scientifically set up the post-2020 global biodiversity framework, increasing investment and mobilizing resources to provide bigger support for protecting biodiversity, and accelerating reform to give priority to biodiversity conservation.

"Elizabeth Maruma Mrema, executive secretary of the Convention on Biological Diversity, called on world leaders to translate their commitments into 'policies, actions and results,' while pursuing 'a bold, inclusive and ambitious' global biodiversity framework.

"'China's work over the last several decades represents our model of transformation, from actions to reduce pollution, restore degraded land, conserve species and ecosystems, and to tackle poverty and pursue broader human development goals,' Mrema said.

"'I would like to express my admiration for the actions that China has taken to protect and restore biodiversity,' she said.

"China is among the first countries to become a party to the Convention on Biological Diversity signed in 1992, and China's first white paper on biodiversity conservation, issued on October 8, detailed China's achievements in biodiversity conservation and contributions to addressing global biodiversity challenges." [My Emphasis]

Oh, so China's been doing the best job of reestablishing biodiversity while continuing its development. China's published a White Paper: "Biodiversity Conservation in China" in time for this conference. China's expertise in this area is being recognized in spite of the West's efforts to smear China:

"The biggest challenge for this meeting in Kunming is to set up high but feasible targets that will not make the post-2020 framework another Aichi target that most countries failed to reach, and this requires all-out efforts from governments, scientists and the public, Li Sheng, a researcher from the School of Life Sciences at Peking University, told the Global Times.

"Li said he expects the meeting to strike a balance between biodiversity protection and economic development in negotiating the post-2020 targets, taking into account the development rights of developing countries, strengthen investment in basic research, and monitor the distribution of different species."

I recall when Japan become a technological leader and began eclipsing longstanding western brands like Zenith, Macintosh, GE, and Westinghouse, which created little public stir, although the term "Made in Japan" wasn't meant to mean prestigious but cheap. But then came the 1980s with Reagan's Anti-Asian racism and several "financial crises" aimed at keeping the Asians in their place. Superior products helped to overcome the racist stigma, but most of the Asian Tigers's political economies were and continue to be Neoliberal, although with a strong collective basis. I predict China's leadership on the Biodiversity Issue will be ignored by BigLie Media, the resulting blackout providing excellent proof of the West's massive Dark Side.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11 2021 17:36 utc | 17

Thaks B! it is an artful look at the matter.

We can discouver more and more in this way. For example look at title of books.

By a clcik of Amazon books title we will get over 3,000 results for "darkside of"

Darkside of Zodiac

Darkside of FBI

Darkside of Tarot

Darkside of .... thousands and millions!

A deeper look at evidences reveal that this is not limited to Anti-China propaganda, but this is a systemic western civilization mind set. It is not limited to vulgar and layman understanding events, affairs and things in binary format, but elite and scientists are more obsessed with binary logic. I can say they can not see non-binary for a while. Even in mathematics.

Posted by: arata | Oct 11 2021 17:38 utc | 18

They have their orders, like "The walls are closing in".

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 11 2021 17:38 utc | 19

typical "othering". substitute "yellow" for "dark" or "africans" for "chinese" and it's typical "they're all broken evil subhumans and in every yellow devil there's an american trying to get out".

it's typical of the idiotic mind of basic americans who mistake hollywood tropes for real life dynamics. we're plucky little luke skywalker and they're the Evil Empire trying to take us to the "dark side". never mind that we paid them to build the death star and told them to keep stormtrooper salaries as low as possible.

it's also rich coming from a country that produced the CIA. if you wanna talk "dark" let's look at the nightmarish torture porn any country experiences when western "intelligence" agencies slither in.

Posted by: the pair | Oct 11 2021 17:41 utc | 20

Yes, China's "dark" list is humorous. Roberts Godfree has an additional list of "hard landing" for China:

1990. China’s economy has come to a halt. The Economist
1996. China’s economy will face a hard landing. The Economist
1998. China’s economy’s dangerous period of sluggish growth. The Economist
1999. Likelihood of a hard landing for the Chinese economy. Bank of Canada

In contrast, "Alive and Well" moods prevails in the American Dream (thanks again to b):

The American Dream Is Alive And Well... In New Jersey
The American Dream is Alive and Well—and Transformed
The American Dream is alive and well, if you are trained for the jobs of the future

and many more in the link.

Posted by: d dan | Oct 11 2021 17:42 utc | 21

The word 'meme' is well chosen because people don't just spread memes because they have an agenda. They also do it because they like to spread memes.

The organically correlated behaviour of media - and social media - tends to be ignored as soon as the word propaganda turns up. People assume central control as being the only source of order to explain this homogeneity.

- reputation travels very fast in a group and people are highly sensitive about it. everyone soon finds out who is the scapegoat or the guy with the bad reputation
- it is common group behaviour to hit on the guy with bad reputation
- with globalization group behaviour in media scales up.
- it is explicit 'smart' business policy to identify bandwagons and jump onto them. Talk about what is on the news. Talk about what is hot. Build on themes and extend their lifespan.

Propaganda is about nudging this system in the right direction and encourage groupthink so the reinforcements bounce off each other.
Propaganda can insert a critical mass of anti-China sentiments but this critical mass can be quite low and become lowered over time so you don't even need to generate input to trigger them anymore
In such a system it is impossible to distinguish someone who deliberately inserts juicy propaganda from someone who merely participates in the media system.
In fact I would go as far as claiming propagandists who believe they are really standing outside of the system rarely are.

In the Belarus/Protasevich case the mainstream consensus was extraordinary high , and the associated thinking extraordinary bad. As if one central command controlled them all.
Except it didn't. Even the people on the plane knew who the pariah was that they could freely dump upon in the interviews.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Oct 11 2021 18:15 utc | 22

It's going to be fun to learn to hate and fear the Chinese without being racist about it.

Posted by: Charles H. Featherst | Oct 11 2021 18:23 utc | 23

Jason Lightfoot, vlogging from China shows you how BBC literally uses a gray filter in their reporting to make beautiful places in China look dark and scary. (He's hilarious by the way).

He's so good at mocking and debunking them it struck a bit of a nerve:

Posted by: Laura Roslin | Oct 11 2021 18:23 utc | 24

The Dark Side of China’s Deep Ties With South Africa

LOL. They certainly are not looking very hard at Israel who has had a close relationship w/South Africa for decades. It would be very easy to write about ... 'The Dark Side of Israel's arms exports'

Dare I say that most Americans are unaware that Israel makes money hand over fist selling weapons to foreign countries while we subsidize their arms industry. Ironically, it is nitpicking to note that Israel sells weapons to Muslims who kill Christians because we in the U.S. do the same.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Oct 11 2021 18:23 utc | 25

Why Do Editors Seek 'Dark Sides' Of China?
(One wonders how such 'dark side' and 'weaponizing' memes happen)

Posted by b on October 11, 2021 at 15:35 UTC

The West's 'journalists' haven't got much choice.
Hell will freeze over before they take a look in the mirror and begin celebrating the sunny side of Penis Envy.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 11 2021 18:31 utc | 26


I don't think this one belongs on the list:

Chinese Probe Uncovers New Mystery on the Dark Side of the Moon
Live Science, Feb 1, 2019

That's not an article purporting a "dark side" of China, rather a Chinese accomplishment of learning new data from the other side of the moon (to which the USA has not gone).

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2021 18:35 utc | 27

"Horde" is just derived from "ordu", which is the word in Turkish for "army".

Posted by: lysias | Oct 11 2021 18:41 utc | 28

All over the (sinking) western world of West Europe (Atlatis & Englglistan), Westensmost Asia (the sinking putrid stae of Israël within Palestine) and also the Outer colonies are now going agog. Tolkien predicted this quite ceenly: Only killing Sauron (the US of North A) could ever save Inven´rnsse or any other parts of Western Europe.
Tolkien was quite Right. Lewis was not.

Posted by: Tollef Ås اس طلف | Oct 11 2021 18:43 utc | 29

lysias @27--

It would be of interest to discover who used that term first.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11 2021 18:46 utc | 30

Posted by: Woogs | Oct 11 2021 16:56 utc | 15:

In any case, it all amounts to railing against our own creation.

To say China's development and nascent prosperity is America's creation is a laughable stretch. But that indeed is the near consensus among western elites and propagandists. China's status quo is way beyond what anyone, including the Chinese themselves, can envision a mere quarter century ago. The infra structure build-up; the poverty elimination; the organization capacity against pandemics and disasters; the flourishing of its minority ethnic culture; name it, they did it better than you'd ever have thought. How can someone create something they don't even have a concept of?

No, China did it despite the West. Actually since the early 90's, the West has considered China their only remaining road block to full spectrum dominance. The Clinton Administration was nasty playing the Most Favor Nation card and the Section 301 shenanigan year after year. What the West allowed China to do was allowed to any other developing nation around the world, nations with large populations same as China: Russia; India; Brazil; Indonesia; the whole former iron curtain block! And most of them were even industrially/resourcefully more advanced and plentiful than China. But it is China alone that stood out! Now the west is jealous, is nervous, is getting feeble and poorer. Now they are using anything on hand to combat China: the media propagandists, the religious organizations, the sucker lackeys who might lose head and take pot shots at China so as to draw China into a nasty fight which might results in creating excuses for the west to mobilize its own masses into a armageddon solution. That is what I believe is being played out.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 11 2021 18:51 utc | 31

I'm wondering if the producers of visit MoA?
Last week I had a whinge about host Stan Grant asking a guest a good question and then jumping in to try and guess the answer before he/she opens his/her mouth.
Tonight? Not Once! Big improvement.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 11 2021 18:54 utc | 32

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 11 2021 16:30 utc | 9

Nothing to do with your post, but I wanted to tell you about how I finally figured out what your handle meant - I think. Of course I'd read Asimov as a kid, but I'd forgotten all about the Foundation trilogy until the TV show was launched on Apple TV. Is it a reference to Hari Seldon?

The TV show, for fans of Isaac Asimov or science-fiction, does seem to deviate from the novel(s), but so far I've found it watchable through 4 episodes. Sorry, next time I'll post this kind of thin in the OT.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2021 18:56 utc | 33

Often, the word dark is omitted as this new analysis by Tom Fowdy shows: "So China’s peaked and is now in decline? The West is engaging in wishful thinking if it really believes Beijing’s rise is over:"

"Analysis posted in two influential American publications argues that China is on the wane, due to its economy slowing down and it facing pressure from the West. That’s fallacious nonsense rooted in ideological bias and fear." [My Emphasis]

Fowdy goes on to prove the reality of his bolded thesis:

"Of course, there are examples where rising would-be empires were halted by resistance, such as Napoleon and the Ottoman Empire, but the problem with this argument is that it is ahistorical, fatalist, and rooted in a contemporary ideological bias that ‘China must fail’. It also peddles a further flawed argument that China is failing because 'it is responsible for a pushback against it,' which is a frequent mainstream media line used to manufacture consent for tough Western anti-China policies. It views events through how Western eyes want to see them, not necessarily how they actually are, and lacks any historical hindsight.

"It is this precise lack of hindsight which exposes a logical fallacy: that the United States would have accepted a rising China in any circumstances, even if it were on preferential terms and conditions to its enormous power, which extends across an enormous spectrum of political systems, ideology, economics, and technology. Those who make this false argument omit the fact that China’s rise from 1978-2018 was made conditional on a belief that the Communist Party would reform and eventually collapse, not consolidate, as the Soviet Union did.

"The blindingly obvious geopolitical reality is that America will not accept a rival power which diminishes its Pax-Americana unipolar control, which it has enjoyed since 1991, and which it believes is the inevitable, logical, and most desirable state for the world.

"It is not a surprise, therefore, that the US has accordingly sought to demonize China and enlist allies against it, and subsequently uses Beijing's own retaliations to this process as further cause to demonize it. For so-called expert analysts to opt for the argument that if China 'did the right thing' it could rise to power without any pushback from Washington is silly, and presented in these articles in ludicrously bad faith.

"The mainstream Western media likes to say the US pushback on China is happening because of Hong Kong or Xinjiang, etc, but it fails to realize how these things have been propagated, or to recognize that, in any circumstances, the US would have always found something to blame, attack, and demonize a rising China for." [Emphasis Original]

Fowdy's analysis looks all the more keener when read in tandem with Glenn Diesen's latest effort, "America’s debt crisis could well shake the world. Cut off by sanctions & suspicion, Russia should ironically find itself insulated," because the realty he exposes makes a mockery of those writing for the Outlaw US Empire's propaganda organs:

"The long-awaited American financial crisis appears to be on its way. Inflation is increasing, energy prices are out of control, and debt levels are already unsustainable. Washington has few tools left, and an awful lot to lose."

Diesen's view coincides with mine, Hudson's and others that there's no more road remaining to kick the can further down and all that remains is a genuinely dark abyss.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11 2021 19:06 utc | 34

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2021 18:56 utc | 32

with the comment about my moniker to which I responded in the Weekly Open Thread

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 11 2021 19:21 utc | 35

The propaganda certainly is synchronized. Why have separate news organizations?

Posted by: Edward | Oct 11 2021 19:28 utc | 36

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2021 18:35 utc | 26

Those "journalists" also got it wrong too because it's called the far side of the moon since it gets the same amount of sunlight as the near side.

Posted by: One Too Many | Oct 11 2021 19:31 utc | 37

lol b!! i think the editors like dark roast coffee and dark chocolate!

Posted by: james | Oct 11 2021 19:48 utc | 38

Forced memes have to be forced. That requires repetition. It is quite obvious that the Mockingbird mass media is trying to associate "dark side" with China.

For the intellectual and emotional cripples that constitute the western mass media workforce, darkness and inscrutability encompasses their understanding of China, so from their stunted perspectives it sorta makes sense. That is why these morons think satellite imagery is how to tell what is going on there. China might as well be on Mars and populated by a race of totally alien beings as far as these idiot presstitutes know.

The real tragedy here is that some people in the West still consider these benighted presstitutes to be authoritative. Fortunately the numbers of people who feel that way are declining, but still too many.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 11 2021 19:56 utc | 39

"...One wonders how such 'dark side' and 'weaponizing' memes happen .."

people in the Council on Foreign Relations vet ideas from the various think tanks and upper crust economic, media and political leaders, and then a small number of Elite members meet and 'chat' to decide how to go after 'official' US 'enemies' using certain propaganda memes and tools

Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 11 2021 20:05 utc | 40

james @37--

Are you going down the Dark Humor Path?!

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11 2021 20:18 utc | 41

re have a structure maybe, that defines a mind control technique used by those who have monopoly power of the media (PIGOs private imperial global oligarch).

<==inversion.. <=protected space or interest< infringement <=propaganda <= with distribution to large mass audience.

inversion <=here imperialism is inverted.
protected space or interest <= here it is Taiwan
infringement <=claim protected interest violated
propaganda <=the claim and facts which support the claim are produced into propaganda (a report).
distribution <= a headline and short summary about the report is made known to the target audience but the report often is not made easily available to the audience.

The dark side of China..

Monopolism operates in the private privileged space above the nation state systems. The monopolist own the nation state system and they use it to control those who must of necessity live within the gates and walls and confines of rule of law of one of the 256 nation states in the system.

Members of the global society of monopolist (GSM) are not concerned with the morality of the humanity of the world, but instead, their interest lie in finding ways to pit one set of morality against the other, one set of economic process against the economic processes of a different kind, one nation against the other, every thing to the global oligarch monopolist requires manipulation in ways that allow to pit one against the other because the profit is in t he flows that manipulation create.
In simple terms its divide and conquer on a global scale.

Inversion the imperialism of the colonial west must be aimed at the progress made, by any system at work in the East that challenges the west or that prevents the monopolist from being able to manipulate the system.

Of course the protected space is "authority to rule and the privilege to plunder vested in, but divided between the economic spaces, residing on each side of the divide". Democracy in the West takes pot shots at the different systems found the East, is just divide and conquer propaganda. This is done by the monopolist (PIGOs), in order to claim infringement into the protected space.. the claim is that progress of the other occurs only at the expense of the former.

B asks: "Why Do Editors Seek 'Dark Sides' Of China?"
vetinLA @ 14 thanks for the link, says it is because our elites shipped thousands of factories to China.. ..<=yes and they used rule of law to create the monopoly powers that allowed them to accomplish that transfer [patents, copyrights, and privatization of public domain] into privately owned domains. The monopolist created the platform that made all nation state economies portable.

Posted by: snake | Oct 11 2021 20:21 utc | 42

Part of a propaganda campaign could involve projection. Implying that the "dark side" is over there in China. Nothing to see here as we in the West are little angels? Sorry I can not provide the link, but Ben Norton has a good article at The Grayzone: Cognitive Warfare, A Battle For The Brain. It is disturbing and chilling. Thanks b.

Posted by: Michael Crockett | Oct 11 2021 20:30 utc | 43

Xi jinping is very nationalist and increasingly so. I find that a problem. The Hui Muslims, though Han, have been obliged to obey national rules. It is as though China is becoming more rigid. it isn't necessary, but that is what Xi jinping wants. I would advise them to be more relaxed; they're winning in any case.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 11 2021 20:34 utc | 44

It works, is the simple reason. When you listen to the bar room chatter in between discussing the latest football game, you hear the same talk from everyone about the wicked Chinese and the wicked Russians who have sinister plans for our undoing. people have for years repeated the same claptrap about Putin being obscenely rich from corruption and being a "brutal dictator". They always are, aren't they? And now in recent years they've started in on China, the evil Chinese with their plans for world conquest and who are responsible for the Covid and America's economic malaise. The "Dark Side" is just a standard propaganda trope, repeated enough so that it becomes the common man's view. It's funny in a tragic sense since here we are, blaming others for our problems, when in fact our enemies are here at home in the very people we elect to run the country. Gavin Newsome, filled with fine platitudes while pursuing a path to ruin for his state's economy, Bernie Sanders and AOC with their childish utopian fantasies about the "Green New Deal" and "build back better". Then there are the promoters of BLM and CRT who are setting up social divisions based on racial hatred while claiming at the same time to be combating it. Then there are the neocon imperialists promoting wars of aggression that will and have been gutting America's productive economy for the sake of chasing the "will o the wisp" of full spectrum dominance. These people join the Dems in demonizing the Chinese by claiming they are going to invade Taiwan, when in reality the Chinese intend nothing of the kinds, preferring instead to wait and let economic factors lead to Taiwan' cooptation by the PRC.

Posted by: erik | Oct 11 2021 20:36 utc | 45

"The TV show [Foundation], for fans of Isaac Asimov or science-fiction, does seem to deviate from the novel(s)..."

Of course! It is the "woke" version, as all entertainment media is expected to be today. I know nothing about it (read the books) yet I can say with absolute confidence the cast, particularly the protagonists, will be "diverse" (which translates to Black) and "intersectional" (which translates to female) with some conspicuously gay protagonists (has to be conspicuous or the LGBTQWERTY box doesn't get checked). Antagonists will be white men because you cannot have Black, female, or gay villains anymore unless they are inverted protagonists (note: small possibility of Asian villains because, you know, "dark side" and all. What, you didn't know the mass media brainwashing extended to entertainment as well? ROFL@U!)

I don't want to know how badly they mutilated Asimov's work so I will stay far away from that shit. All I know at this point is that it will be mutilated. There is no way for it not to be in the current atmosphere of delusion and hysteria in America.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 11 2021 20:51 utc | 46

The dark side is when there’s a tunnel #highspeedrailnetwork

Posted by: Bart Schuster | Oct 11 2021 21:00 utc | 47

We might say the Outlaw US Empire has created a Dark Side for itself all on its own--well, with some help from the British who devised what became Neoliberalism. An example of that Dark Side would be the boomeranging illegal sanctions placed on Russia after the failure of to attain the goal of 2014's Ukraine Coup coupled with its own inability to generate any form of genuinely productive policy. Today, Putin held a meeting on science and technology support for the development of agriculture. Thanks to the sanctions, Russia now feeds itself and has become a world leader in exports of foodstuffs.

"When creating or implementing advanced solutions, it is imperative to be mindful of the need to adapt agriculture to climate change. We keep talking about it, and this is exactly what we should be doing, in fact. Of course, we must focus on the rational use of natural resources, environmental protection and carbon footprint reduction. I mentioned quite recently at a meeting on energy that this should be done in line with global trends, but, at the same time, we must be aware of what is happening in our country, what our competitive advantages are, and at what pace and in what manner we should be working in order to achieve our goals. This approach must be used in all areas of the economy, research and technology....

"Agriculture is becoming a high-technology industry in the full sense of the word. Many processes have been largely automated, and the use of digital solutions, mathematical modelling, artificial intelligence and big data are growing. Interdisciplinary specialties like bioinformatics, biophysics and biochemistry continue to be developed. This means that in the agrarian sector new knowledge and solutions are born at the confluence of various sciences. As a matter of fact, similar processes are unfolding in all areas of knowledge, and agriculture is one of them."

What you read, and the contents that I omitted, is a Conservative Action Plan, which is completely different from a Neoliberal plan. For example, no Neoliberal plan would look any further into the future than perhaps a few quarters, and certainly wouldn't even try to plan for climate change. IMO, the greatest challenge for Russia is soil creation in its taiga and permafrost regions that will enable it to continue the expansion of its food production as great belts of farmland elsewhere will become untillable as we move deeper into the century.

Within the Outlaw US Empire, politicos are already getting upset by the rising amounts of Russian oil imports, but they only have themselves to blame for their sanctions on Iran and Venezuelan oil. Indeed, due to oil swapping, much of what's labeled Russian is actually Iranian and Venezuelan oil--yet another Dark Side to illegal sanctions.

But IMO, the biggest Dark Side for the Empire is detailed in Diesen's article I linked @33--its genuine GDP's in freefall, it begs for infrastructure and human capital investment, but no longer has any tools thanks to 40+ years of extreme Neoliberal policy choices, while those anointed as leaders are either in denial or have absolutely no clue how to escape the dilemma.

Since 2008, Dr. Hudson's been chanting his mantra that debts that can't be repaid won't, and that the only way out of its dilemma is for the Outlaw US Empire to write off most of its debt in an effort to rebalance the social wealth measurement while also creating the Capital to make the badly needed investments to begin the rectification of the Dark Damages done by Neoliberalism.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11 2021 21:00 utc | 48

Thanks for this great article B. Who's their Daddy? Among the reams of links in duckduckgo search for "dark side China" there was this:

Was it China? Russia? Those countries specialize in such actions. The NSA however has been briefing that the culprit was an unusual cybercrime outfit known as DarkSide.

Posted by: Dim sim | Oct 11 2021 21:01 utc | 49

The U.S.' desire to demonize China is relatively easy to understand. The back-bone of the U.S. high tech industry is Taiwan's advanced semi-conductor manufacturing.

If China takes over Taiwan, the U.S. instantly becomes a technology follower in everything from military to transportation, communication, energy and industrial technologies.

The U.S. must defend its industrial base in Taiwan at all costs. The propaganda campaign is just one element of this defense.

Posted by: dh-mtl | Oct 11 2021 21:10 utc | 50

@Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 11 2021 18:51 utc | 30

Sorry OV. I have to disagree here.

Walmart sold its entire share of the US consumer market to China.

They were paid very well. Four individual members of the Walton family rose to become amongst the top ten richest Americans.

How's that for utility maximisation? Four persons get peak utility. Three hundred million Americans get shat upon.


Posted by: John Cleary | Oct 11 2021 21:12 utc | 51

Here are two other Dark Sides in the news. "More Than Half of Jewish Israelis Favour Military Attack on Iran to Stop Nuclear Programme" They seem to have a suicide wish as their minds reveal the degree they're controlled by decades of Dark Propaganda. "Erdogan Says Turkey 'Sick and Tired' of 'Terrorist Attacks' in Syria, Will 'Eliminate the Threats'". But Erdogan says nothing about the greater threat to Syria from terrorists in Idlib, only focusing his ire on Kurds.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11 2021 21:20 utc | 52

@ Oriental Voice 30:

Perhaps I didn't sing China's praises enough for you in my post. I will readily admit that China has made the most of the hand dealt it. What has made the biggest impact is its ascension to full membership in the WTO. That is the mechanism that allowed for China's exploding growth this century. Its total trade has seen a more than 9 fold increase since 2001.

And yes,the West allowed it by not using the window given it of limiting Chinese imports for 12 years beginning in 2001. It was corporate greed on the West's part, of course, and China made the most of it.

"Twenty years later, there is little doubt that China is a trade superpower. Its total trade had skyrocketed from $500 billion in 2001 to $4.6 trillion in 2019 (see Figure 1), the impact of which rippled across the global economy. That impact is also partly responsible for intensified polarization on global trade over the last decade, particularly among advanced economies."

Posted by: Woogs | Oct 11 2021 21:21 utc | 53

Thanks for all your always interesting inputs.
Regarding your comment "US's part in the Opium Wars goes unmentioned in US History texts."

I'm reading at the moment "The China Mirage", James Bradley. He's not holding back, a great read. I likely saw the book referenced here at moa.

Posted by: Dim sim | Oct 11 2021 21:22 utc | 54

Words like Images cast a spell on the subject.

That is the root of all fairytales including religion.

It comes down to controlling what someone says they honestly believe in and therefore justify their action.

Blair BELIEVED in WMD for instance. Or he said he did. Being an evil wizard he has plainly shown to be casting his word spells.

I am actually inclined to rush to the dark side of Chinese future by b’s list! 🙂 thanks MoA for another revelation.

Posted by: D.G. | Oct 11 2021 21:22 utc | 55

@Bart Schuster 46
The Light at the End of the Dark Tunnel..
Is the Light of an Oncoming Train.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Oct 11 2021 21:28 utc | 56

Thanks b: beautifully done and a compelling tsunami of evidence that the MSM are fed keywords, etc.

I note that in the infantile Marvel movie 'Justice League' (eyes rolling...) the baddies from outer space are called 'Darkseid'. Hollywood and the CIA scraping the bottom of the barrel.

While I'm ranting: there is a special place in hell reserved for those responsible for infantile misspellings of words. It seems unique to US consumer capitalism though I may be wrong.

Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 11 2021 21:28 utc | 57

I wonder when Putin will weaponize China's dark side?

Posted by: ArthurDent | Oct 11 2021 21:54 utc | 58

@ karlof1 | Oct 11 2021 20:18 utc | 40.. lol.. yes! i have been listening to too many dark horse podcasts!!

Posted by: james | Oct 11 2021 22:07 utc | 59

Let's cut to the chase here. What b has identified, comprehensively as always, is the clearest case of projection one can imagine.

Actually, no. It is the second clearest case of projection.

The clearest was quite obviously "Evil Putin controls everything in Russia. Evil Putin has stolen enormous sums from the Russian people. Evil Putin weaponises everything. Evil Putin is being aggressive again."

That's exactly what Queen Elizabeth has done within her own empire.

But to be clear. We have seen the dark side of the USA. It is the entity that takes pride in "We lie, we cheat, we steal."

It is the entity that waves a white flag before murdering the courageous seeking peace.

It is a country that has been stripped of all honour.

It's position rests entirely on its ability to accuse others of that in which it is itself engaging.

Its philosophy we already know. That of "Overwhelming Firepower".

The best response to the invasion of Iraq was that by the German people. Ordinary people were going about their everyday business, but if they happened across a pile of dogshit in the street they would plant Old Glory, the Stars and Stripes.

That struck a nerve and was not appreciated by the targets.

So the answer to your question is "Editors Seek Dark Sides of China to provide cover for the Regime's own Dark Side exposure, and to distract the populace."

Posted by: John Cleary | Oct 11 2021 22:21 utc | 60

Woogs @52:

Oh I noticed your China-complimentary stance in your post. I wasn't accusing you of demeaning China. I was merely pointing out the fallacy of US politicians clinging to the narrative that USA made China over the past 40 years.

Yes America traded with China and both benefitted, as it should be. But America did not single out China to make these trade so that China would grow. America thought it was making the best deal. And it was. If not for Chinese products lining shelves of Walmart, K-Mart, Target, Home Depot, the working and middle class couldn't have bought all that low cost appliances and household goods to maintain the 'American standard of living'. John Cleary above said that 4 Waltons made China, LOL! How come he didn't see that China made the 4 Waltons?

Actually I think your post #15 was a great post. I wouldn't have followed up with a post in response if I didn't think it was great.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 11 2021 22:22 utc | 61

here is what the cbc editors are running with today -

Canada urged to join allies in tougher China stance after Kovrig, Spavor release

i sure the word ''tougher'' has been used about as many times as ''dark side''... in fact, it has to be one of the new catchwords!

Posted by: james | Oct 11 2021 22:28 utc | 62

Oriental Voice @30 is 100% correct when he says: "China did it despite the West."

China has been the most productive country in the world for thousands of years in human history (e.g. It is a country with < 10% of world arable land but supports 20% of world population.) Whatever the US or the West do/don’t do, will not change the ultimate return to normal.

John Cleary@50 and Woogs@52 are typical sour losers from the West. Just look at the figures, see how UNIMPORTANT US investment is to China.

Hong Kong 72.1%
Singapore 3.6%
Virgin Islands 3.0%
South Korea 2.8%
Japan 2.4%
USA 2.0%
Cayman Islands 1.6%
Netherlands 1.6%
Taiwan 1.3%
Germany 1.1%

Also, look at the figures of where US actually invest, see little US invest in China compares with other. (Countries with highest direct investment position received from the United States in 2019(in billion U.S. dollars, on a historical-cost basis)
Netherlands 860
UK 851
Luxembourg 766
Canada 402
Ireland 355
Singapore 288
Bermuda 262
Switzerland 229
Australia 162
Germany 148
Japan 132
China 116

Furthermore, most of the manufacturing that being invested in China are not really the state of art technology from US and the west. For example, Intel invested in China, but their factories there were at least 1 or 2 generations behind those in US. Apple assembles iPhone in China because those are “relatively” low tech. It keeps its state of the art R&D in US. Same for Boeing, HP, Google,… They bring technologies to China only when they know China already, or is close to achieve at those technological level. They seldom, if ever, helps China to leapfrog technological gaps. Most high tech CEOs are NOT stupid, they know China is a potential competitor, and they clearly understand the potential of China, if not in the 1960s, but at least by 1990s.

Additionally, there are many historical events when US and the West tried to sanction, isolate and slow down Chinese progress in science and engineering research. For example CoCOM (link below) imposed the strictest limit for China:

Even today, you can still see there are efforts to technologically isolate China. For example, US vetod China from participating in the International Space Station. Obama also banned Intel from selling chips for China’s supercomputer projects. Trump’s efforts to kill Huawei is just the latest high profile one that fits the historical pattern.

So, no, China is here (in trade, tech) not because of the imaginary Western helps or tech "transfer", but despite of the West’s efforts.

Posted by: d dan | Oct 11 2021 22:34 utc | 63

Some Chinese netizens are makeing jokes about Western MSM:

- Monday, Wednesday & Friday: China is collopsing;

- Tuesday, Thursday & Saturday; China is threatening the world/rule-based order;

- Sunday, these presstitutes and war mongering propagandists may go to church to ask God's forgiveness to restart the same "news" cycle again the next week.

Tons of people, both Westerners and no-Westerners, have been failling for these lies hook, line, and sinker, sadly. That's how the Empire brainwash the people, esp from the West, to prepare for another new war.

Posted by: lulu | Oct 11 2021 22:58 utc | 64

What the Anglo-zionist propaganda outlets don't realize is that they are revealing their own dark side. They are projecting their own denied dark self onto a convenient other.

Posted by: Ali | Oct 11 2021 23:39 utc | 65

What about the potential hidden side of western money and finance in China? I know almost nothing of it and it is rarely written about by most Chinese commentators. I'm not talking about the normal US NGO's, Think Tanks and corporations, rather the more shadowy world of banking and finance as per the Davos group and other elitist organisations. Some say they have a firm grip on China behind the scenes

On the surface of it China is a totalitarian regime that is a benign force for its citizens, so far. And the hierarchy is selected via meritocracy. All good. But is there more to the story? What about deep corruption in the Party and potential collusion at high levels with Western Financiers beyond the scrutiny of regular banking and investment?

Given that this is happening everywhere else, is there any reason to believe it wouldn't be happening in China?

Personally I see China as a positive force in the current world situation. However surveillance and hi tech is already a done deal in China, compliance is very high so it would not take a lot to flick the switch. Already the first unmanned cargo port is operational in China, what will happen to the billions in the workforce as robotics take more and more hold?

Is China the first successful implementation of the High Tech, AI, Green New Deal?

These are just questions I have, not accusations, if anyone has reliable informration on these topics I would appreciate it.

Posted by: K | Oct 11 2021 23:40 utc | 66

@Oriental Voice 60:

It was your first sentence in post 30 To say China's development and nascent prosperity is America's creation is a laughable stretch that prompted my reply in post 52. Perhaps our focus is just different and not all that far apart. China was undoubtedly on the rise already, but it was the West's inaction within the WTO that accelerated it to the degree it achieved. There is no way to look at that inaction as anything other than deliberate.

In any case, we are living with the results of that inaction today.

Posted by: Woogs | Oct 11 2021 23:57 utc | 67

The Dark Side of China is reminding me of Gary Larson's 'The Far Side'. Or in the case of this article from today's Sydney Morning Herald, the 'Farce Side'. Karlof, vk and others here should split their sides laughing with this one: "How Australia has shaped up to Xi's aggression".

Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 12 2021 0:05 utc | 68

If you want to really understand the "Dark Side of China" ck out the writings of Wang Huning a member of the CCP's seven man Politburo Standing Committee, particularly his 1991 book "American against America." (see recent article of N.S.Lyons on this individual in the paywalled newletter Palladium)

Wang's analysis of what was wrong with American society (after spending a great deal of time visiting more than 30 cities in the U.S.) was that "... America faces an unstoppable undercurrent of crisis..." and that he appeared intent on making sure that this type of crisis would never occur in China itself.

After his exposure to what he saw as the dissolution of the U.S. Wang became interested in blending Marxist socialism with traditional Chines Confucian values in order to synthesize a new basis for Chinese long-term stability and growth, immune from his reading of where Western liberalism was leading-- to the collapse of the American value system and then to its social system.

Hence the recent Chinese campaigns against the complete commercialization of Chinese society in order to head off threats from the dark side to its own social order.

Posted by: Gulag | Oct 12 2021 0:25 utc | 69

John Cleary @ 59; Great post!!

Posted by: vetinLA | Oct 12 2021 0:26 utc | 70

Oriental Voice

No, you misunderstand me.

I said that Walmart had sold its share of the US consumer market.

In capitalism, market share is the most prized of all assets.

With the Walmart arrangement manufacturers immediately gained economies of scale and moved towards the position of the low cost producer.

In return four members of the Walton family joined the hall of fame.

It was a business transaction.

Was I wrong?

Posted by: John Cleary | Oct 12 2021 0:42 utc | 71

I should think that all those superfluous Stars Wars flicks - the ones that start after the original trilogy that ends with "Return of the Jedi" - have been required viewing for all those applying for jobs with MSM outlets so as to inculcate the notion of the Dark Side into writers' subconsciousness.

How else does Disney get its money back, having thrown all its millions into making more forgettable Star Wars films and ruining the legacy left by George Lucas? Disney's shareholders must also be holding shares in the giant media corporations like Rupert Murdoch's octopoid News Corporation that owns just about everything in print, audiovisual and online media, so the hacks who work for these outlets must be compelled heads-down-tails-up to immerse themselves in the culture spewed out by these corporations.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 12 2021 0:45 utc | 72

The translations I posted at my VK Space, Developing a Chinese Discourse: A Roundtable Discussion with Zhang Weiwei and Fan Yongpeng" and "An Interview With Zhang Weiwei: The Success of the Chinese System is the Greatest Fear of the West" make good counter-points to all these Chinese Dark Sides. Chinese are human, so they're capable of having faults, but their fundamental philosophy is to aim for virtue, something the collective West cannot claim.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 12 2021 0:52 utc | 73

Almost all the presstitutes and warmongering propagandists do not go to church.

Posted by: Lysias | Oct 12 2021 1:06 utc | 74

Patroklos @ 56:

Darkseid is a character in the DC Comics universe - the universe of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern and their friends who make up the Justice League - not the Marvel Comics universe.

I read Wonder Woman comics in the late 1980s when George Perez was artist / writer. I stopped reading them after he stopped writing for the character and other writers took over. That is how I became familiar with the Darkseid character. He was originally Superman's enemy.

Though I won't be surprised, given that DC Comics and Marvel Comics must be fast losing their core comic-reading audiences (to judge from the annual retconning of all their major characters), that one day the two will have to merge and then combine all their characters into the one humongous and overcrowded superhero universe.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 12 2021 1:23 utc | 75

For a bit of fun, there's a dark side to "The Dark Side of the Moon" album.

Yup, another British band had released its own "Dark Side of the Moon" album in 1972. The album flopped so Pink Floyd felt free to use the name for its album.

Maybe if Roger Waters says something of his views on China's supposed oppression of Uyghurs, Tibetans and other minorities in its territory that can't be ignored, the MSM will lash him over his "dark side".

Posted by: Jen | Oct 12 2021 1:34 utc | 76

Problem with western people when they watch star wars movies , they picture themselves (and their govt) as the good guys when in reality US / NATO is more akin to the Empire led by dark force wielding siths on top of their leadership ladder..

decades of insane level of propaganda “we are the good guys” since the time of brutal colonization by europeans , founding of america by native genocide and slavery , and yet majority of the west still think they are on the right path in front of God or whatever moral deity they believed.

americans have the gall to keep saying “God bless america” when they should humble themselves and ask for forgiveness for america since just like the powerful niniveh it will be destroyed unless they repent (fat chance americans will repent)

destruction of america is imminent , either by natural forces or by other nations that will be used as “Hammer” to destroy the modern Babylon..

remember , this america is the nation that breed people like Col P Lang who on his blog calling for Nuke strike on china while pooh poohing “few millions” casualties on US side.. and this guy still think he is devout religiois catholic…

Posted by: deap | Oct 12 2021 1:40 utc | 77


You remember the mixed economy of the first thirty postwar years.

The bank of England was nationalised in 1945 or 1946.

Is what China is doing today so very different?

Posted by: John Cleary | Oct 12 2021 1:51 utc | 78

on memes: the recent moves by china to regulate the tech titans in their data mining and monopolistic practices are invariably described as "crackdowns" by the MSM, hitting on the totalitarian meme. even bland financial reporting about prosaic rules will have china "cracking down" when it's simply doing what governments are supposed to do, namely,governance.

aside from the neoliberal bias (governance is interfering with the 'invisible hand'), and the standardized anti-china propaganda, I see also a latent bigotry towards the global south and Chinese in particular: they are supposed to be passive prey to imperial machinations and the movement of capital, such that any resistance is them being uppity. not knowing their place.

I see this bigotry in chas freeman, as well. retired from the US foreign service , he still gives many speeches at IR programs and I follow his lectures and speeches regularly on his website. to be clear, I have great respect for the man, for acumen and accomplishments and quality as a human being. but he has since the trump era been repeatedly describing the Chinese foreign service as aggressive and combative, and even has repeated the 'wolf warrior' meme against them.

they are strident to be sure, but freeman seems to not be able to stand the fact that Chinese are talkng back. as if they are supposed to just sit there and silently take the lies and brazen slander that is thrown at them, to sit there while hybrid war is waged against them. even freeman can't stand the fact that thet have a voice that doesn't slavishly say Yes Sir, Yes Master. that's how the rules based order is supposed to work. we set the rules (and the punishments), and you just comply.

the 'dark side' is when the slaves riot. except china is not a Haiti that can be put down. or should i say 'cracked down' on?

Posted by: mastameta | Oct 12 2021 2:06 utc | 79

Well b, why don't you live in China and see how you would like that? Try keeping your social credit score up and your life complying with what your masters decree. No thanks.

In China you'd probably be locked up and have your organs harvested for hosting this blog if you said anything significant against the government. That's why China is "dark", as in evil.

Posted by: Anonymous | Oct 12 2021 2:15 utc | 80

Well b, why don't you live in China and see how you would like that? Try keeping your social credit score up and your life complying with what your masters decree. No thanks.

In China you'd probably be locked up and have your organs harvested for hosting this blog if you said anything significant against the government. That's why China is "dark", as in evil.

I lived and worked in China 2003-2006. No one's organs were harvested during my sojourn there.
Furthermore, life in China was pleasant, and utterly interesting. My Chinese hosts went out of their way to ensure we had a good time. They organized tours to Juizhaigo, and Guilin, for example.

I have seen videos taken by the current residents of those places I knew. The changes are monumental. For example, Shenzhen during my visit, had no buildings higher than 20 stories. I lived in one. Now, downtown Shenzhen is dominated by buildings approaching the highest in the world.

Those here should think as to why NATO has chosen NOW to focus on the Chinese bogeyman... It is to distract their populations from domestic failures at home...

Exactly how will this obviate your experience's to come during this winter?? Will it fill your belly with non-existent food?? your furnace with non-existent fuel?? your vehicle with non-existent fuel? non-existent energy to charge it??


Posted by: George W Oprisko | Oct 12 2021 2:32 utc | 81

In China and the West we have two civilizations that appear otherworldly to one another.

Over the last centuries the West has imposed, in pure totalitarian fashion, its economic and societal system, Western Modernity, to the rest of the world. This resulted in the collapse of multiple civilizations, multiple traditional societies, and hundreds of millions were killed in this Western totalitarian enterprise.

Today the center of gravity of the economy-world is shifting outside of the realm of the Western civilization. It is being pulled toward East-Asia by China.

The West, as is visible to all, can't accept that its exceptionalism would be defeated at its own game. It's excuse is that "the other" could not be winning if it was playing fair. Western thinking, behavior, and actions are driven by the founding axioms of their civilization. The core of Western axioms is dualism and it forces the following thinking in Western minds: "me me me = GOOD versus 'the difference of the other' = evil".

To counter China, against which it can no longer win a kinetic war, the West propagates memes like "dark China", "evil CCP", "the Wu flu", and so many other. These memes are intended to turn individuals and nations against the rise of the Chinese civilization to the historical mean...

If interested to know more about this kind of reasoning check "The Continuum of the Cultural Field".

Posted by: laodan | Oct 12 2021 2:51 utc | 82

@ a courageous "anonymous" who just wrote :

"Well b, why don't you live in China and see how you would like that? Try keeping your social credit score up and your life complying with what your masters decree. No thanks. ?".

I have lived my first 30 years in Europe and I have also spent some 10 years in the US. But I'm living in China since the beginning of the nineties because it is where I feel the freest on earth...

Dear anonymous Western propaganda may have convinced you that "In China you'd probably be locked up and have your organs harvested for hosting this blog if you said anything significant against the government. That's why China is "dark", as in evil."

But did you verify if your dark thinking has any bearing with the reality on the ground ? I can attest that China offers a level of governance that is thousands of years ahead of Western societal governance. Covid-19 has definitely proved that.
Once you have lived the real impact, in daily life, of China's governance I can assure you that you discover a level freedom that is unattainable in the West. But if you come with your Western ignorance and want to impose your views you will definitely get in trouble. And rightfully so.

Posted by: laodan | Oct 12 2021 3:09 utc | 83

Was born and raised in segregated south in Memphis. Remember white only signs in greyhound bus station. But china in 1990s was only nation I visited that I saw signs saying blacks were not allowed. So yea folk, China has a dark side, pun intended. Fck them tricks - the CCP

Posted by: Dogon Priest | Oct 12 2021 3:49 utc | 84

Laura Roslin | Oct 11 2021 18:23 utc | 23

Surprised to see the BBC being so defensive. Looks like they are losing their confidence.

Posted by: jiri | Oct 12 2021 4:27 utc | 85

Sinophobia is as anglo saxon as fish n chip...

some people tried to get anti-China statements from the returned captives but gave it up, because the men had nothing but praises for their treatment and wishes for Sino-Indian reconciliation

Posted by: denk | Oct 12 2021 5:34 utc | 86

William Gruff | Oct 11 2021 20:51 utc | 45:

The TV show [Foundation], for fans of Isaac Asimov or science-fiction, does seem to deviate from the novel(s)..."

Of course! It is the "woke" version, as all entertainment media is expected to be today.

A bit off-topic, but the Foundation stories (it's a series of stories) were based/inspired by Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, only set in space. To simplify a bit, Gibbon blamed the decline and fall on the influence of Christianity, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to portray the decline and fall of a future empire on the influence of wokeness.

And it doesn't take too much effort to see the portrayal of the decline and fall of a future galactic empire as a metaphor for the decline and fall of a modern-day empire.

It may turn out to be the most prophetic show on tv.

Posted by: Kukulkan | Oct 12 2021 5:36 utc | 87

Coming up next, the new Hollywood blockbuster:

Breathe Hard: the dark side of night in China!

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 12 2021 5:41 utc | 88

The Chinese are the designated Bad Guys. No matter what they do, there must be something bad about it. Simple as that.

Posted by: RoHa | Oct 12 2021 6:52 utc | 89


Either you are a real paid US troll or you're a super sheep who believes the bullshit in US propaganda.

China is the best place for decent human beings to live in.
I should know because I'm a foreigner living in China past 8 years. Went through 7 weeks of country wide lockdown because of the US biological attack launched in Wuhan.

Here's the real info on China's Social Credit Score. I should know because my wife is a state nurse and she couldn't be bothered with what her score is! To the majority of Chinese it's a Big Nothing Burger because they are normal people living normal lives and not scamming others. I also know the flip side because one of her aunt and her husband are on the blacklist of not getting any loans from banks, not allowed to travel on high speed trains but on normal trains, not allowed to fly. Because they are outstanding debtors. Are they in jail? Nope. Have their organs been harvested? Nope!
If you're just ignorant then do yourself a favour and get the real info on China.

China Social Credit System

Checking Social Credit

China's Social Credit System Explained

The System in Action

US Own Social Credit System

Lies about the China Social Credit System debunked

Posted by: Surferket | Oct 12 2021 7:30 utc | 90

@Laodan 81
Absolutely agree. I have been visiting China since 2007, and last year succeeded in getting a residence permit, I have been settled in Shenzhen for over a year. I read about the misgovernment in the U.K. with a certain degree of schadenfreude ever since. The response of government here to Covid has been an absolute revelation. So much nonsense is written in the MSM about the yoke of authoritarianism but people live their lives oblivious to the supposed burden. I simply would not wish to live anywhere else and certainly not in my home country which is simply falling to pieces.

Posted by: DoctorK | Oct 12 2021 7:36 utc | 91

Speaking of credit scores...many years back I had plans to go to law school after undergrad. Scored a 173 on the LSAT (top 1%), 1480 on GRE and had a 3.85 GPA. In a meritocracy law school would have been covered for me....but, I had a low credit score, and no cosigner, so no law school.

On the plus side, it opened my eyes to what America was truly about, that wealth matters more than hard work or intelligence.

Fortunately for the rest of the world, this has produced incompetence and stupidity in the ruling classes.

Posted by: Haassaan | Oct 12 2021 7:43 utc | 92

James Corbett following Anthony Sutton sees the dark side of the global elite, sitting in New York, Washington, Seattle, the Bay Area, London, Shenzhen, Hong Kong, Beijing, Paris, Frankfurt etc.
A monopoly in one nation wasn't enough for them; wars can be adventitious for them, rich & autocratic peace too.

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 12 2021 8:02 utc | 93

The primary target of Western propaganda has always been the Western public. I don't think most people care what Western government says in China. That's why the most uninformed people in the world are the westerners.

Posted by: Steve | Oct 12 2021 8:11 utc | 94

By talking about "the dark side", they are indirectly admitting there is also a "bright side".

I rarely see them writing about the dark side of predatory capitalism, not even the bright side - if there ever was one - because then they would have to admit the existence of a dark side. Therefore, capitalism is per definition always "good", and a part of just how things are.

Posted by: Limert | Oct 12 2021 9:38 utc | 95

OUT OF CONTEXT......but,

does an one know what has happened to the Informationclearinghouse website? Unless its a problem with my own browser or something, its been stuck on the same date since around 17th September with no updates. BTW, I am using to the .info site.
Thanks in advance.

Posted by: DB | Oct 12 2021 9:40 utc | 96

karlof1 @ 72

Yes.  And I think the same thing can be said of their economic progress.

Michael Hudson's Chinese colleague Wen Tiejun documents this well in 'Ten Crises: The Political Economy of China's Development (1949-2020)'

some examples:

'On 31 October 2013, six major central banks, the USA, Japan, UK, EU, Canada and Switzerland formed a long-term currency swap agreement, with the US Federal Reserve at its core.  It constituted a dynamic swapping network among the core countries, a vital institutional adjustment for financial capitalism'

'The Renminbi exchange rate reform on 11 August 2015 was regarded as the start of a devaluation cycle. Since then China had to engage repeatedly in the foreign exchange and financial markets to deal with the attempts to sell short the Renminbi by international investments funds'

'In December 2016, the Central Economic Work Conference put forth the stance that 'houses are for people's accommodation, not for speculation''

As is well known, derivatives are a big problem in the current financial system.  Exchange rate derivatives are very common.  Some are useful to protect legitimate transactions from large exchange rate swings.  Unfortunately though the vast majority are used for speculation.

Posted by: financial matters | Oct 12 2021 10:56 utc | 97

To all who are highlighting cultural aspects on either side:

This is all well and good, cultural factors exist; they are not an epiphenomenon, and they cannot be strictly reduced* to economical factors

But they're still riding on top of economical factors, which are more fundamental, and without the economical factors they would go nowhere.

The USA-PRC propaganda war is a textbook example of understructure**/superstructure dynamics and class war.

The USA understructure, its relationships of production and property; is at odds with the PRC understructure. This antagonism is a product of their class character: although the PRC infrastructure is not mono-classist proletarian (five stars in the flag and all), the USA infrastructure is certainly bourgeois to an absolutist degree. This means that the expansion and cementing of one saps and diminishes the class interest of those involved in the other.

Therefore, cultural and social dynamics - the superstructure - are inevitably called into action in order to reinforce their corresponding superstructure and undermine the opposing one: hence the yellow peril propaganda, and the PRC's effort to challenge the Washington consensus regarding international relations, and their counter-moves.

Precisely because these superstructural dynamics are not epiphenomena or reducible to understructural dynamics are they called into action, because they represent an accessory (but effectual) force adding and detracting from the underlying, "substantial" conflict: economic war.

I cannot shake the feeling that the PRC's long-term economic strategy regarding the West is a largely novel development in history and political economy, one whose fruits we haven't had yet time to harvest in full... something akin to a coconut trap for bourgeois monkeys.

Only through Marxism will social sciences become equal to natural sciences. After that and in due time, Marxism might be superseded into something greater and different, but there simply is no other way to reconcile History, Economics, Politics with the natural sciences.

It's a necessary threshold in the development of knowledge, the paths that lead astray from it will find a dead-end or eventually fold back into it.

*: Reduction is a pretty stringent operation, if you can't have a lossless, reversible conversion, it doesn't apply, IMHO.

**: Forgive me for using this cobbled-together word, but "infrastructure" leads to confusion with things like power, sewage and comms large-scale installations, and "structure" feels lacking.

Posted by: Misotheist | Oct 12 2021 11:46 utc | 98

"are inevitably called into action in order to reinforce their corresponding superstructure"

Errata: should read

"are inevitably called into action in order to reinforce their corresponding understructure"

I also slipped a couple of times and said "infrastructure" anyways.

My Bad.

Posted by: Misotheist | Oct 12 2021 11:51 utc | 99

@78 It is amusing when I hear this sort of propaganda from (presumably) Americans. As if Americans don't have an oppressive social credit score system? So let's just first look at your FICO credit score. This will determine whether you can not just buy a home, but rent a home. It will, in some cases, determine if you can be employed or where you can be employed. It will determine if you can rent a car. It will determine any number of things in your life. And it is controlled by three private companies in a semi-transparent, but mostly opaque manner. And the score sticks around with you for life--mistakes from many years ago haunt you. Try getting really sick, get an unaffordable hospital bill, you're unable to work for a few months, fall behind on bills, and your score goes into a tailspin. Get your life back on track and pay bills on time but you still have those black marks against you. You can maybe get credit, but at 25% interest. You can maybe rent a crappy apartment but by paying 3x the rent for a deposit. And so on.

This, of course, is only part of your social credit score. The rest is collected and traded by private corporations, often farmed from your social media posts, your geolocation data, your spending habits, who you associate with, etc. This information is bought and sold by private companies and this data will absolutely determine if you get a job, absolutely determine your social mobility, etc. Then, we have the layer of data the government collects on you. This can absolutely get you banned from flying. The US literally has a no fly list. And people far too often wind up on that list because of erroneous or otherwise trivial data. All of this is completely opaque to people in America. Oh, and try stepping out of line with the covid narrative on a job and watch yourself become unemployed and unemployable. Let us also not forget about the censorship, the propaganda "news," and other thought crimes that can get you cancelled.

As for the organ harvesting...would it really surprise you if this occurred in American prisons or prison camps along the border? Or that medical experiments are conducted on those captive populations? Never mind the 1000+ civilians executed without trial by "law" enforcement each year.

If anything, the architecture of oppression is well developed and inescapable in the US. Meanwhile, there is no shortage of everyday videos of life in China where you can clearly see there are no Gestapo-esque police watching everyone, people are unafraid to speak with you and share their opinions, everyone is free to move around, to sport unique fashion styles if that is their thing, to shop for whatever they want, and pursue whatever career they want. You're free to fly there yourself to verify it with your own eyes. I'd say you are free to fly around the US and compare, but, of course, this depends on whether you have a vaccine or not. If you don't, of course, you are a 2nd class citizen in many major cities now, unable to participate in public life or even enter buildings. Enjoy your "freedom."

Posted by: Krungle | Oct 12 2021 12:35 utc | 100

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