Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 21, 2021

Some Musings On 'Wokeness'

For some time I have been trying to get my head around 'wokeness'. It seems to be a typically 'liberal' U.S. phenomenon that has not (yet) been picked up elsewhere. I find it to be an illiberal doctrine that attempts to prescribe how one has to think and talk about certain issues.

What the 'issues of the day' are one has to be 'woke' about seems to change every few weeks. Before the last U.S. election it was 'bend your knee' and 'defund the police' which predictably ended with higher police budgets as soon as the liberals had won the elections.

Currently some U.S. media are enraged about Dave Chappelle, a standup comedian who made jokes about people during a Netflix special. I had guessed that is something one should expect from a comedian. But some of Chappelle jokes were about transgender people which is somehow supposed to be bad. (Why?) At least that is the point the people who now want to cancel his show are trying to make.

I am bit suspicious about this reason as during his show Chappelle also made a good point about UFOs and how many thousand years ago people flew off from this planet to another one. They screwed it up over there and then decided to come back to now make a claim on this one. Chappelle calls them 'space Jews' (video).

What a wonderful aphorism for Zionism. I had a hearty laugh when he made that joke though the audience in the studio seemed awfully quiet.

Now a handful of Netflix workers publicly demand to cancel Chappelle's show allegedly because he made jokes about transgender people and, more generally, about the fuss some of them make. But I wonder what is really happening behind the scenes with this. Who is really pulling the strings here? Who really wants to cancel Chappelle? Space Jews?

A more serious danger of 'wokeness' and 'cancel culture' is its invasion of science:

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology invited the geophysicist Dorian Abbot to give a prestigious public lecture this autumn. He seemed a natural choice, a scientific star who studies climate change and whether planets in distant solar systems might harbor atmospheres conducive to life.

Then a swell of angry resistance arose. Some faculty members and graduate students argued that Dr. Abbot, a professor at the University of Chicago, had created harm by speaking out against aspects of affirmative action and diversity programs. In videos and opinion pieces, Dr. Abbot, who is white, has asserted that such programs treat “people as members of a group rather than as individuals, repeating the mistake that made possible the atrocities of the 20th century.” He said that he favored a diverse pool of applicants selected on merit.

He said that his planned lecture at M.I.T. would have made no mention of his views on affirmative action. But his opponents in the sciences argued he represented an “infuriating,” “inappropriate” and oppressive choice.

On Sept. 30, M.I.T. reversed course.

M.I.T. canceled a scientific lecture because the lecturer has opinions on other issues. What has happened to academic freedom of speech?

They canceled a lecture because some nitwits are hyping the 'woke' issue of affirmative action. These people are willing to accept less than the best qualified scientists because the lesser qualified person may have certain not science related attributes. Well folks - I agree with Dr. Abbot. That's not how academia is supposed or can work.

Luckily Princeton jumped in and Dr. Abbot's lecture will be held there.

The craziness behind of all of this is exposed further down in the NYT's reporting of the issue:

Phoebe A. Cohen is a geosciences professor and department chair at Williams College and one of many who expressed anger on Twitter at M.I.T.’s decision to invite Dr. Abbot to speak, given that he has spoken against affirmative action in the past. Dr. Cohen agreed that Dr. Abbot’s views reflect a broad current in American society. Ideally, she said, a university should not invite speakers who do not share its values on diversity and affirmative action.
...
What, she was asked, of the effect on academic debate? Should the academy serve as a bastion of unfettered speech?

“This idea of intellectual debate and rigor as the pinnacle of intellectualism comes from a world in which white men dominated,” she replied.

Whoa. What a catastrophic non-answer. That woman is supposed to do science?

How would science happen if we stop to use intellectual debate and rigor? What shall decide the veracity of a theory, the rightness of a formula or the correctness of a scientific fact? The height, color or gender of the person who utters it? The emotions of those who hear of it?

Where is this supposed to end?

Posted by b on October 21, 2021 at 18:03 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@wagelaborer

At some point, I guess, females pretending to be males, will be advised to get their prostate checked.
Let the malpractice suits and sodomy prosecutions begin.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Oct 22 2021 3:09 utc | 101

Couldn't help liking this snippet...

Phoebe A. Cohen is a geosciences professor and department chair at Williams College and one of many who expressed anger on Twitter at M.I.T.’s decision to invite Dr. Abbot to speak, given that he has spoken against affirmative action in the past.

That's what's known, among the 'woke,' as a cohen-cidence.

Back in the 1990's Oz PM Paul Keating took Malaysia PM Mahathir Mohammed to task for announcing, at a public forum in a muslim country, that "Jews rule the world by proxy". Mahathir is the bloke who helped finance the voyage of the siege-busting Mavi Marmara flotilla from Turkey to Gaza in an attempt to relieve the siege imposed by the "Israelis".
Despite the fact that no-one in the flotilla was armed, the Jews turned the event into a bloodbath and hijacked all of the vessels which took part.

10+ years ago, Wokeness used to be a nudge-nudge wink-wink acknowledgement, among friends interested in sovereignty in the West, that an apparently random, politicised incident which didn't make much sense, made a whole lot of sense if one presumed that Jews were behind it.

In 2001, when pro-"Israel" cranks known as Neocons were warming us up for the Fake War On Terror, it wasn't obvious that the FWOT was for "Israel" because hardly any hi-profile Neocons had Jewish names. However, fast forward to the 2020s and there are so many people with Jewish names in positions of power/influence in the West that it's almost impossible to ignore.

Cancelling people for thought crimes, which no-one cares about, is a panic-mode stop-gap deflection gambit based on insulting drivel, and is doomed to fail - if we keep our wits about us.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 22 2021 3:14 utc | 102

I don't really see that this is a problem, nor that it is political - it may very well be due to some of the environmental disruptions, or it may not. There have been many groups of people throughout history differing from the majority in their beliefs and actions - I saw on a thread recently that we Orthodox Christians are but 5 percent of the American populace; so be it I say. I am however confounded that such folk as are or feel they are different in the way described here seem so aggressively determined to have everyone give up their own ways of talking, thinking and being because somehow it insults them, who are and always will be a group in the minority.

I think back to the Shakers - they made an impact upon America,a lasting impact, even though they are not among us today. But they did have very different ways. They made beautiful furniture and sang some lovely hymns like "The Gift" - which was taken and used in Copeland's "Appalachian Spring." Also, the Old Believers in the Russian Orthodox tradition have contributed to the faith as a whole. Then too, the various Indian tribes, some with very different beliefs than others, make a significant contribution without needing the non-indigenous to be as they are.

Minorities have to do these things, form their own vibrant communities and speak and do there as they wish, at peace with those who are not like them in some ways but the same in one, which is that we all are human beings -- or history will forget them.

I'm sorry; I guess I don't understand 'woke' at all. I've been different all my life - it's why this country became my home. Lots of different people here, every single person really, when this was a good place to be. I wish it could be that way again.

Posted by: juliania | Oct 22 2021 4:15 utc | 103

“This idea of intellectual debate and rigor as the pinnacle of intellectualism comes from a world in which white men dominated,” she replied.

Replace "white men" with "Jews," and that paragraph could have come from the Third Reich.
lysias | Oct 21 2021 19:50 utc | 25

It's not until the language starts turning to insect references that the machetes come out. We're fine... just fine.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Oct 22 2021 4:17 utc | 104

brilliant, Jen, at #97


".....except for the most obvious one: class...The Italian philosopher Antonio Gramsci might have seen Wokeness as another form of cultural hegemony, in which ruling classes (through their minions in academia and the entertainment industry) manipulate aspects of culture and those tools, methods and language that we use to critique culture or what constitutes the cultural status quo at any particular time or period, to maintain their rule and keep the rest of us weak and divided..."

I could hardly agree more, with you and Gramsci.

it's all about class, and how the Ruling Class maintains its economic and political power through its narrative power in the media, in the think tanks, academia. and throughout the entire culture at large, represented these days primarily by Hollywood productions on the TV and at the movies. Class is never discussed and everyone fights about auxiliary and secondary issues such as race, ethnicity, 'gender', and sexual orientation.

much is to be said about the working class (class issues) essentially being wiped out of this entire discussion using those secondary issues as distraction, now headed by what I call 'idiot wokeness'

Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 22 2021 4:19 utc | 105

thanks @ 95 imo and @ 97 jen, for pointing out that video... it is quite good and sums up my own concerns really well...

@ 102 juliania... check out this video that imo and jen shared - Cancel Culture and Wokeness
i think mcwhorters analogy of it being a religion is quite good and helpful for others to understand or appreciate this new phenom quickly and with clarity.. my take..

Posted by: james | Oct 22 2021 4:32 utc | 106

It’s about time you got based, b.
Keep going in the direction you just started.
Keep writing like this.

Does anyone here think Putin or Xi give a fuck about the American woke concept of whiteness, except for its use as a bludgeon to pummel American whites over the head with, while they laugh at us?
Yes, the empire is crumbling. And woke crap makes it crumble faster.

Posted by: Cadence Calls | Oct 22 2021 4:45 utc | 107

@Posted by: Bluedotterel | Oct 21 2021 21:38 utc | 64

"This seemingly deliberate confusing of the terms sex and gender is the basic problem with the woke crowd in this instance."

You hit the core nail on the head, being in an "enlightened" academic social science community I find myself regularly having to remind people that:
- Male and Female are biological cross-species constructs based on physical reality: XX and XY (other combinations were previously treated as intersex, but that his changing to a consensus of if there is a Y then male, not then female). Not XX or XY only occurs in 1 in 1,666 births. Asexual reproduction is seen in less than 0.1% vertebrate species.
- Humans are sexually dimorphic, and the differences are greater at the extremes (e.g. the best male tennis player vs. the best female tennis player). In some species the female is bigger than the male (e.g. Black Widow spider).
- Gender (e.g. "man", "woman") is a social construct that has been somewhat fluid across human populations and time. Animals cannot have genders, as they do not have human culture.
- Sexual orientation (i.e. which sex you find attractive) is accepted as being genetically based. This was huge for the homosexual community as it destroyed the whole conversion therapy bullshit, and those few in the Trans/Woke community who are now questioning this should understand the scale of the response as they are directly endangering a major social advance for this group. Sexual orientation is not a "preference".
- Medical care must be based upon sex (the acceptance of differences between human males and females in response to medical treatments was a major advance for feminism in the 1990s) and take into account any contra-sex hormones/drugs.
- Some individuals do change their minds about being trans during the start of puberty, hence the highly intelligent policy of the Finnish government in not allowing puberty blockers or any physical transformation until after the onset of puberty (and after the kind of thorough psychological and social services support so lacking in North America).

- Being a jerk is an equal opportunity trait, so there are Trans jerks and the right-wing press revels in placing them on the front pages for reactions (just like stories of old people getting beat up/killed even though they are among the physically safest groups in the community, and others such as black young men and Korean storekeepers are many, many times more greatly exposed to personal violence). Please take note of how few are the actual reports and how much they are hyped up. It would help if Trans people called out such jerks (e.g. walking naked into women and girl's bathrooms with male genitalia) rather than support their psychotic behaviour.
- The "powers that be" just love to utilize constructs such as gender fluidity, anti-racism and other non-class identitarian concepts to divide and conquer the many, while only making surface efforts rather than dealing with structural causes; big corporations and their paid-for media just love such superficial remedies.
- There are a lot of very over-educated and under-utilized young people around (e.g. the "PhD barista") and they are searching for a sense of meaning and status; identitarian and woke concepts that help separate them from the "rabble" are attractive to them. They may get paid less than a plumber but at least they are culturally above the "deplorables". This is supported by the elites as its a great way of turning young angst against other parts of the masses and away from the elites, and visa versa as an extra bonus.

This is all "common sense" to me, but such sense generally seems to be not that common.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 22 2021 5:14 utc | 108

Look at STEM results in Russia (multi-ethnic), China (multi-ethnic non-white), South Korea (non-white) or Iran (non white) and tell me again Math is racist…

While declining West is at war with itself, devoured by idiotic hyper-individualist topics, Asia rises. Largely thanks to hard sciences and to their primacy over soft ones. Baizuos won’t rule Beijin anytime soon

Posted by: HerrHesser | Oct 22 2021 5:19 utc | 109

@Posted by: Cadence Calls | Oct 22 2021 4:45 utc | 106

I have an image of Putin and Xi enjoying the shitshow while enjoying their ice cream.

P.S. There is a huge issue of math pedagogy in the West. In Canada the "new math" has been introduced which removes all of the highly intuitive shortcuts that I was taught in the 1970s. My girlfriend can now not help her own daughter with her math homework. The "new math" also seems oriented to be better for the math gifted that will take math-related subjects at university while not giving a shit for the majority who may be negatively impacted. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a Ukrainian neighbour who had come to accept that his children would never approach the level of technical education that he had attained in the Ukraine (a bachelors degree from Eastern Europe is easily equal to a North American masters), but he attested that they were very good at presentations and self-confidence.

To me there is no real reason to make the math curriculum change, and the reasons for the change are bullshit as on large math problems we will all just use the calculator in our phones. And you would need a piece of paper for new math as well as old math, the opposite of what the new math advocates say.

e.g. Old Math Vs New Math Two Digit Multiplication, the old way also just seems to be more logically intuitive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRZXI-TF8iU

e.g. Old Math Vs New Math - Long Division
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2rBaSj2L74

Perhaps we should just shut down most of the academic positions in basic educational curricula as all they seem to create is busy work and a general dumbing down. Plus mass retraining for all the math teachers. I looked at some of the texts used in those one room schools in the 1800s in math and English and they would seem to be unattainable for our current crop of school children (or many bachelors and masters students as well!).

So Vlad and Xi will continue to enjoy their ice-cream.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 22 2021 5:46 utc | 110

Where is this supposed to end?

I would like it to end (or start) by making all those involved with making US nuclear bombs examined for their wokeness and all those not having the appropriate right-think chucked out.

Posted by: jiri | Oct 22 2021 5:48 utc | 111

"Wokeism" is not a seperate ideology as such. It is just a a hashtag.

"Wokeism" is liberalism at it's current stage of development. That's why it's fighting classical liberalism, that is: liberalism in it's previous stage od development. In order to progress (= be "progressive") all the old has to be overcome.

Posted by: m | Oct 22 2021 6:15 utc | 112

The usage of the "race gap" in mathematics achievements in the US (asian highest, then white, then hispanic, then black) is used to cover up the biggest gaps - those of social class and slave descendent and non-slave descendant.

Elite slave descendent Blacks (Cory Booker, Spike Lee), especially those whose parents worked in education (Condoleeza Rice, Susan Rice, Kamala Harris), tend to be over-represented in Black high achievers. This is doubly so for Blacks who are not descended from slaves (African immigrants, Barack Obama).

"A large percentage of Black students at highly selective top universities are immigrants or children of immigrants. Harvard University, for example, has estimated that more than one-third of its Black student body consists of recent immigrants or their children, or were of mixed-race parentage.[36] Other top universities, including Yale, Princeton, Penn, Columbia, Rice, Duke and Berkeley, report a similar pattern.[37] As a result, there is a question as to whether affirmative action programs adequately reach their original targets: African Americans who are descendants of American slaves and their discriminatory history in the US."

"Nigerian-Americans often live in middle-class and ethnically-mixed suburbs, as opposed to predominantly black urban areas.
In 2018, Nigerian-Americans had a median household income of $68,658 - higher than $61,937 for all overall U.S. households. In 2012, Nigerian-Americans had a poverty rate of 12.8%, lower than the U.S. national average of 14.9% and lower than the total African-American poverty rate of 27.2%"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Americans#Socioeconomics

Many of the Black elite don't seem to give a shit about their brothers and sisters lower down the hierarchy, they are just the rabble they needed to steal their victimhood from to help them climb the ladder. Obama is a classic example, what did he ever do for the Black working class community?

It is the destruction of the slave-descendent working class black communities through leadership assassinations (MLK, Malcom X, Medgar Evans, Fred Hampton etc.), politically driven incarceration of leaders (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/30/black-panther-radicals-still-in-jail), a drug trade heavily supported by the CIA (see Alfred McCoy), the neoliberal destruction of well paid working class jobs so many Blacks relied upon (e.g. in Detroit), and the neoliberal destruction of the welfare state that so many Blacks were affected by, and a legal system designed to incarcerate large numbers of young black men (e.g. crack sentencing at 100x that of powdered cocaine), and inter-generational trauma that is the real problem. Better to cry that "math is racist" and "all whites need to reflect on their inner racist" than deal with the underlying issues.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 22 2021 6:34 utc | 113

Posted by: Jen | Oct 22 2021 2:20 utc | 97

McWhorter nailed the Wokeness phenomenon by calling it for what it is: the reduction of all intellectual, artistic, cultural, scientific and (to some extent) political and economic activities to one criterion of how all these activities should be addressing or rectifying perceived power differences between participants according to various arbitrarily selected and defined criteria (such as race, ethnicity, gender orientation) except for the most obvious one: class.

Wokeness is a Disneyland version of class consciousness.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 22 2021 6:38 utc | 114

Great. Now you too will show how truly manly you all are. Thank you, b, for giving them a chance.

Posted by: Marija | Oct 22 2021 7:04 utc | 115

b, the infatuation and outrage about “wokeness” is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you really search for it, you will find yourself outraged about things that have no basis in material reality. This is an online trend to generate clicks and controversy, which in turn creates a lot of money for all involved. I have no doubt Dave Chapelles viewership on this “controversial” special is now through the roof because of this spectacle, nobody is being cancelled, in fact he is probably rolling in the dough right now by tapping into culture war nonsense.

Being “woke” is a trend among snobby liberals but the response to it is hyperbolic and is only used as outrage porn for right wingers and old people.

I’d like to add, I always assumed in comedy that punching down is a big no-no for comedians. To make fun of an already marginalized, and mentally ill group with an extremely high suicide rate is in poor taste imo.

Posted by: bren | Oct 22 2021 8:07 utc | 116

@wagelaborer,
"previous dissidents like JK Rowling". In what respect is a wealthy member of the British mainstream literati a "dissident"? She was prominently against the Labour Party left, itself just mainstream democratic socialist. Most people in the UK would be surprised by this characterisation.

Posted by: Loftwork | Oct 22 2021 8:27 utc | 117

After Daphne Dorman, Chappelle's trans friend and fellow comedian, committed suicide, Dave set up a trust fund for her daughter. When telling this story he said he hoped to speak with her someday that he knew her father.

“And he was a hell of a woman,” Chappelle said.

Geniale

****

Makes me think of Frank, who I sure miss...as we get ever closer to his prophetic, TOTAL CRIMINALIZATION.

Mankind must be made more
uniformly
if
The Future
was going to work

But...

Who gives a fuck anyway

Posted by: john | Oct 22 2021 10:00 utc | 118

Posted by: vk | Oct 21 2021 21:14 utc | 57

That about sums it up.

Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 22 2021 10:00 utc | 119

@b Woke or wokeness is actually the coming together of two streams which are using the same strain of thought.
One is the Critical Race Theory "developed" by Kimberly Crenshaw and Derrick Bell (They actually expanded Critical Theory). And the other is the use of Intersectional Feminism (4th or 5th wave feminism developed by Judith Butler). Both feed from the same neo-Marxist train of thought "The Frankfurt School" (came out of France!) mixed with deconstructionism.

Basically it comes down to the same thing. Take Marxism dichotomy of oppressor vs oppressed, claim oppression, Protest, Revolution, Utopia. In the case of CRT it is Oppressed minorities vs Whiteness. In the case of IF it is Queer/trans vs Heterosexual normativity.

This is all just one big load of crap but it has been allowed to fester in the universities. It has now come out in full force into the world because the movement has infected/infiltrated A)the Universities B)The American educational system and is being pushed out in force. Though the why escapes me. THey have backings from the highest positions of power. Before or while Trump was in office they were already pushing this out and he wrote an executive order to stop this from being taught because it is divisive and polarizing as hell. Biden came into office and immediately rescinded the order and allowed it to continue its work. Wether the Democratic party is using this cynically or wether they bought into this whole ideology is still unknown to me.

I will have to delve further into this because I need to find out more about ESG or something like that. A social credit score for corporations. Hear it is being used to force corporations to use the Diversity, Inclusion and Equity program which is the guise under which they infiltrate corporations and clean it of/silence opposing voices.

If you want to know more the most excellent sources are:
-James Lindsay his YT channel New Discourses and his website with the Translations from the wokish
-the book Cynical Theories by James Lindsay, Helen Pluckrose (extremely dry but necessary academic read)
-The book The parasitic mind by Gad Saad
-the book The madness of crowds by Douglas Murray (the most highly recommended book if you want to make sense of this movement which does not make sense to the uninitiated)
-The YT documentary about the Evergreen state college story which explains in detail how they took power in 2017 (this was the first manifestation of this movement (unless you want to include the Ferguson riots). The professors who got expelled (Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying) also have a podcast (Dark Horse podcast) in which they talk about evolutionary science, Covid but also the wokish transgressions.

Bret Weinstein explains precisely and concisely what this movement is all about:

Bret Weinstein
@BretWeinstein
A movement opposes science when it doesn't want assertions tested, challenges arithmetic when its claims don't add up, ridicules 'merit' when it wants to triumph by other means, seeks to censor when it fears discussion.

Those who coddle such demands sow the seeds of our undoing.

Posted by: Gehennah | Oct 22 2021 10:23 utc | 120

Addendum: conclusion: it is all about grabbing power, silencing the opposition and change society into their utopian worldview. Wether or not this movement is being used cynically or has infected those in power this is comparable to a Universal basic solvent which dissolves all bonds holding society together (Loose quotation from James Lindsay).
The point to which we have come now is this will surely push the US into a civil war (combined with the mishandling/misusing of the economy and covid by the Biden administration). Seems like they really want the US to collapse and build back better.

Posted by: Gehennah | Oct 22 2021 10:32 utc | 121

Petri Krohn | Oct 22 2021 6:38 utc | 113

"McWhorter nailed the Wokeness phenomenon by calling it for what it is."

Reminds me of a joke from the "avant-woke" period.

Q; "How do you avoid getting McWhirter's disease?"

Ans. "Avoid McWhirter."

**

From the radio comedy show "beyond our Ken" about the late sixties, who were immensely popular, mainly for their "risqué" and "double entendre" jokes. ie. Julien and Sandy, (for those who are old enough to remember). Can sometimes still be found on Radio 4 Extra, of the BBC. Of course they are totally outside modern susceptibilities.

Posted by: Stonebird | Oct 22 2021 10:37 utc | 122

I have little doubt that the “wokeness” trend among snobby liberals is being fueled by rich globalists as a distracting act to perform other hanky panky on the general public in the US and Europe, mostly privacy and free speech abolishment through the backdoor.

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 22 2021 10:45 utc | 123

Posted by: Roger | Oct 22 2021 5:46 utc | 109

This new math of multiplication and division is amusing, although somewhat weird in exposition in the video. One idea is VERY good: connect arithmetic and math in general with visualization. As vision-oriented animals, we process images very intuitively and quickly, so connecting concepts with images should help. That said, the method in the video would be better for Roman numerals:
if we buy XVIII boxes, and each costs XXII coppers, how much should we pay? Of course, CCCXCVIII! With the drawing shown and knowledge that X times X is C and few similar rules, we will arrive at the correct result (tricky to you heathens: C minus X is XC).

That reminds me the tidbit I read in an article. Historians found receipts for Columbus expeditions in the royal archives of Spain. All quantities were written in proper, Christian numbers like CCCXCVIII, but on the margin were calculations using "algorisms", i.e. methods from the book of al-Kharismi, where the methods of calculating with numbers written in digits were explain (from simple addition and subtraction to solving quadratic equations and beyond). But those infidel methods were used only on the margins.

The example in the video was a bit absurd, 18 x 22 = (20-2)(20+2) = 20 x 20 - 2 x 2 = 396. But with visualization for 22 x 17, we would draw mental 20 x 20 rectangle, with area 400 (remember, X times X is C), while actually needed rectangle is similar, BUT we need to remove a strip of width 20-17 = 3 on top and add a strip of width 2 and height 17 on the right. So we subtract 60, add 34 and we get 374. Thus we approximate with calculation on 1 digit numbers, and correct using calculations in which one number has 1 digit which makes it easier. Onwards to finding the unit price for a box with 29 oz of Grape Nuts for 3.89 USD in Walmart, to compare with the unit price of Grape Nuts in a box with 64 oz for 7.29 in Wegmans. (I highly recommend Grape Nuts as a cereal with the best combination of price, nutrition values and quite natural ingredients).

Quite seriously, getting approximate results with mental calculations is VERY useful. Everyone can use a calculator, but it is easy to punch something wrongly, so it is important to recognize when the results is surely wrong. And in supermarkets we can often see bad calculation results, mostly when they show so-called unit price. By spotting weird (and wrong) unit prices, you can find bargains like smaller jars/boxes with smaller unit price (usually it is a reverse).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 22 2021 11:35 utc | 124

MarkU | Oct 21 2021 20:07 utc | 34


So now we have 'get woke, go broke' how does that work? When the bottom line is blatantly being sacrificed it is certain that the policies are being driven from the top, not by popular demand.

I am reminded of a discussion between Gilad Atzmon and another old Jew, in which one of them uttered a wonderful aphorism (to the effect of ): "Athens taught us how to think. Jerusalem teaches us what to say."

Posted by: foolisholdman | Oct 22 2021 11:39 utc | 125

What Beowulf might have made of "Woke-ness" in U.S. presidential elections:

Hormonally Pigmented Puppets on Parade
(in the accentual-alliterative Anglo Saxon style)

Uttering unctuously undulating ugliness
A warmongering woman’s wanton whim
Suckles sick snakes seeking something for seizure.
Manifestly, miserably mumbling her mantras,
Conventionally dressing for "victory." Dreadful
Expression expressly appropriating platitudes:
“Noise” from a face-hole numbingly fatuous.

Onset of Alzheimer’s ought to scare all of the
Citizens sitting at home (if they have one)
As Dithering Dude chooses Melanin Mamma,
Hormones and pigments heralding hopelessness:
Pipsqueaks Pretending. Puppet “alternatives.”

Meanwhile the other two men mangle management.
Orange and albino (the one thumping Bibles)
Propose printing paper, apocalypse pending.
The plague settles everything -- properly. Error
Invalidates polling: Variable poisoning.

Browbeaten brutally, bullied electorates
Validate viciousness, verbiage and vanity.
Ballots? Needless. Bullets next?

Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright © 2020

Posted by: Michael Murry | Oct 22 2021 11:39 utc | 126

@ Posted by: Loftwork | Oct 22 2021 8:27 utc | 116

J.K. Rowling's problem is completely different. It has more to do with an old schism within Feminism itself (Rowling is a feminist) than with cancel culture. It became public because we live in the era of social media, but it has nothing special, considering the fissiparous nature of these Postmodern ideologies.

--//--

@ Posted by: Jen | Oct 22 2021 2:20 utc | 97

You're correct, but it is important to say that Gramsci's concept of (cultural) hegemony is a general theory that explains everything (i.e. why a culture, any culture, becomes or not dominant at any given society, at any given point of time), not just the rise of Wokeness in particular.

Posted by: vk | Oct 22 2021 11:41 utc | 127

Re: "New Math"

HA HA

Parents have been complaining about "new math" since the 1960s.

Posted by: Platero | Oct 22 2021 12:06 utc | 128

Another take on "WOKE-ness" in verse:

The WOKE Bait and Switch

How quickly the white and the black turn to yellow
As Democrats dither and bargain away
Whatever advantage the elderly fellow
Supposedly won on Inauguration Day

It seems that those checks for two thousands of dollars
Once promised “immediately” seem distant right now,
With the good little Donkeys back wearing their collars —
Dutifully drawing the Elephant's plow

The numbers first shrink by six hundred. Where’d they go?
Then four hundred more. Now a thousand, we hear,
Could possibly happen “in time” but for PAYGO
Which always insists that more jobs disappear

To balance the budget. "Austerity" beckons
When black, brown, and female and gay take the reins.
Just like with straight white men, theft happens in seconds.
The WOKE fall asleep while the rich take their gains.

Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright © 2021

Posted by: Michael Murry | Oct 22 2021 12:10 utc | 129

If it ain't woke, don't fix it.(tm)

My phrase to encapsulate the subterfuge.

Only 'woke' will get fixed. Only 'woke' is deemed a threat to democratic governance. Empire-driven militarism, record inequality, a broken democracy ... all these and more are/will be ignored as the country turns right ... and the power-elite and their faux populist political operatives once again pull the wool over the eyes of the sheeple.

PS Inspired by the other creative writing here.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 22 2021 12:26 utc | 130

Sort of off topic but apparently Trump's idea of setting up another type of Twitter/FB, that doesn't ban people like him has caused a stock to go from 12 bucks a share yesterday morning to 82 dollars this morning in furious trading. The company DWAC has 35 million shares out and has traded 516 million on this 24 hour trip so far.

Posted by: arby | Oct 22 2021 12:44 utc | 131

lol...

Don't you know if you point these things out about affirmative action and science -AND- you happen to be a Trump supporter, you're racist.

I wonder if Chappelle is a Trump supporter because clearly he's racist. lol
...and if you're opposed to CRT, you're racist.

But aren't you curious who the thin-skinned Space Jews are, 'pulling the strings?' Chappelle obviously hit a nerve.

Honestly, Idk. I'm more interested on why the CIA has a copy of this book in their library. https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/FC/FC2F5371043C48FDD95AEDE7B8A49624_Springmeier.-.Bloodlines.of.the.Illuminati.R.pdf

Posted by: christy | Oct 22 2021 12:50 utc | 132

Our resident bunny will now attempt to fool the inattentive into believing the backlash in the US against wokism that is taking place with no mass media prompting or reinforcement is actually a secret plot by the Establishment to sabotage the Democrats and put the Republicans in power, thus forcing the meme that Republicans=Establishment while Democrats=anti-Establishment. Do watch for the oddly worded negative-ish throw-away comment directed at the Democrats from the bunny to reassure the reader of his neutrality in the partisan show.

Sure, opposing the wokeness cancer will get you expelled from university, fired from your job, and banned from social media, but that is all just part of the Establishment's outrageously convoluted and fiendishly elaborate plot to actually support the backlash against the wokeness! At least that is what the bunny would have you believe.

In truth the bunny is intensely "woke" and this criticism of it in a forum where he must pretend alignment really chafes his anus.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 22 2021 13:06 utc | 133

fnord | Oct 21 2021 20:09 utc | 35


While endocrine disruption from microplastics poses a lot of questions about their impact on early human development, I don't think there's any kind of consensus that it's resulting in an increase in gender dysphoria, which can and does occur in men with above average testosterone levels.

It is not just microplastics that are the problem, there are other gender-benting pollutants in our environment. Particularly suspect are tin compounds. for example tributyl tin, which is/was used in anti-fouling paints is effective in parts per billion (I think, it might be parts per trillion, I'm not sure) in changing the sex of some animals. Tin cans and tin-containing solder are pretty ubiquitous in our environment. Not to mention pesticides and additive to plastics and all the rest.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Oct 22 2021 13:09 utc | 134

The Woke/Cancel initiative is a great tool for deepening bitterness and division in the American body politic and culture. Which is a good thing. It weakens the power and good opinion of the rest of the world. Good. Good. Very good.

It also might held mobilize those opposed which could come to some good.

Posted by: John Thurloe | Oct 22 2021 13:20 utc | 135

Forgive me if others have touched on this already.

Where did “wokeness” come from and why?

In 2012 Occupy Wall Street were protesting all over. Most important in large groups outside big banks in NYC. They chanted “We are the 99%”. Why is this key? The overlords in the US realized that if 99% of the people banded together they could easily overthrow the Elite that ruled the country.

The above was a problem. How do you solve it and maintain power? You must break up the 99% into smaller groups that would not wield enough power to challenge the current caste system.

In the US, the government tends to use the same playbooks over and over. What worked previously? Look back to The Grand Bargain where plantation owners broke up former white slaves and African slaves as partners.

Circling back, who is truly pushing wokeness? If you look it’s the large corporations that run the government and the unelected individuals in the government itself.

Divide and conquer. Stay slaves to the system.

Posted by: Slat1 | Oct 22 2021 13:22 utc | 136

Divide and conquer. Stay slaves to the system.

Posted by: Slat1 | Oct 22 2021 13:22 utc | 134

That is clearly what it is, although I am sure a lot of people believe in it. Takes me back to the excesses of the 60s & 70s, now I think about it. Much of that was hyped in the same way in the MSM of the day. Next they will trot out some new version of Ronny Raygun the man with the common touch. It is all show business.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 22 2021 13:47 utc | 137

William Gruff @Oct22 13:06 #132:

Our resident bunny will now attempt to fool the inattentive ... In truth the bunny is intensely "woke" and this criticism of it in a forum where he must pretend alignment really chafes his anus.

Smearing my character and twisting my comments while expressing concern for my anus is a new low for Gruff.

Anyone reading my comments can see that I've recognized progressive over-reach, 'woke' authoritarianism, and inept administration. I've simply asked: 1) why has the Left pursued polices and goals that are doomed to fail and 2) cui bono. Today's anti-woke hair-on-fire moment seems very contrived.

That Guff expresses more concerned for my anus than with the partisan hype from controlled media that plays into the hands of the power-elite tells you all you need to know about where Gruff's loyalties lie.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 22 2021 14:06 utc | 138

@ Jason, 46

"Most of these people are only woke when it comes to policing comedy shows, demanding the use of new language, bathroom designations..etc when it comes to the biggest issues like 9/11 truth, Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestine, the OPCW scandal/ US sponsored Jihadi war on Syria, debunking ridiculous Novichok war propaganda, war propaganda against China such as the Xinjiang evidence free genocide claims..etc. etc. most don't know anything about it and support the Empire's narratives wholeheartedly without asking any questions. I'm sure 90% of so called woke Dem people think that Juan Guido is the rightfully elected President of Venezuela and that Russia-gate is still real even today, most probably think Bellingcat are indipendent truth tellers... It used to mean something else about 10 years ago, but now it seems to mean mainstream CNN watching Democrat who reads the New York Times for truth."

Yes. On fundamental issues of war and peace, as well as the propaganda that the United States deploys to wage its Hybrid Wars around the world, most people are the opposite of "woke."

This is true across the political spectrum from Conservative to Moderate to Liberal.

They all regurgitate the lies of the America media with Eyes Wide Shut.

In fact, the entire Woke vs. Anti-Woke "debate" is a deliberate distraction.

It's the Culture War version of Bread and Circuses.

Bogus debates about superfluous sh!t for the masses and chattering classes to bicker about--and divert attention from life and death issues like an out-of-control American Empire that is fomenting conflicts around the planet.

Posted by: ak74 | Oct 22 2021 14:19 utc | 139

Woke is what remains when collective human experience/wisdom- culture, tradition, religion, and family are taken away from society and replaced with petty monetized movements sponsored by well-wishing NGOs.

Posted by: nme | Oct 22 2021 15:05 utc | 140

Read The Origins of Totalitarianism. Pay particular attention to what Arendt says about how totalitarians deliberately use irrational, nonsensical notions ("wokeness" would be a prime contemporary example) to destroy reason. Who benefits from all this? The ones with the most money and power. No wonder, then, that Gates, Zuckerberg, and their ilk are leading the charge of the woke stormtroopers.

Posted by: Joe | Oct 22 2021 15:24 utc | 141

I think far too much is being read into this, and what sort of long term staying power any of it has or will have on society at large. Social mores have become whatever we want to do that is not proscribed by criminal law. There cannot possibly be that many people who are organically gender challenged, this is a trend that will largely die out although remnants will live on after is has become so commonplace that it is no longer controversial or expressive. I'm 54, when I was 18 hardly anyone had a tattoo, now they are so common as to no even evoke a reaction, even on someone's face or neck.

The fact that people want to reject gender and then insist on being recognized not as genderless but as whatever they feel like that day, is just another symptom arising from the Universe 25 we find ourselves living in. People have no control over any of the macro conditions of their lives while we hurtle toward what looks like a rapidly approaching end times. They have found a channel to challenge the "old order" and assert some form of fundamental control - the right to be recognized as something other than they are.

The West is experiencing "Behavioral Sink", more will come.

Posted by: Miller | Oct 22 2021 16:14 utc | 142

@ Posted by: Joe | Oct 22 2021 15:24 utc | 139

Irony is "The Origins of Totalitarianism" is the bible of post-war center-leftism, one of the pillars of postmodern leftism and liberalism, and was projected to exalt Western liberal democracy ("Western Democracy") by gluing fascism and communism together (hence "totalitarianism", which is equal to fascism + communism). It is still extremely influential in the West to this day.

Posted by: vk | Oct 22 2021 17:06 utc | 143

Miller @140

I don't know if it is what you intended to imply, but very few who are alarmed by "wokeness" care about what other people might want to describe their gender as. Likewise very few are racist or misogynist. People are not opposing "wokism" because they enjoy seeing women, Black Americans, and gender confused people suffering. That the anti-woke are cruel racist, misogynist homophobes is a central article of faith among the "woke", but like much of the rest of the "woke" ideology it has no basis in objective fact.

Just to put things in perspective, one of Biden's campaign planks referenced 37 LGBQWERTY+ Americans who were killed in 2020.

There are about 18 million LGBQWERTY+ people in the US.
There are about 330 million people total in the US.
There were 21,500 murders in the US in 2020.

Murders by population:
LGBTQWERTY+ :0.002 murders per thousand
General population: 0.065 murders per thousand

LGBTQWERTY+ people in the USA are over 32X safer than the general population.

There is no crisis of violence against LGBTQWERTY+ people in the United States. It is a "problem" that simply does not exist in the real world. It is an entirely made-up and imaginary problem.

The anti-woke are much more concerned about being forced to publicly affirm that they recognize members of a select few minority groups as being something that is conspicuously counterfactual. They are worried about their children being taught that men can be women, and obese ugly women are beautiful, and they themselves are bad people if they don't agree, or even they are bad people if they have less melanin in their skin or if a boy wants to remain a boy, of if a girl embraces her femininity.

And yes, "wokists" are pushing those things.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 22 2021 17:17 utc | 144

@ 131 christy - Whoa. I skimmed through you link a bit. Crazy train. I feel like I am in some Adult Swim cartoon. A cross between Super Jail and Mr. Pickles. Let's go, Brandon!

Thank you! What a crazy world.

Ozzy - Crazy Train

Posted by: lex talionis | Oct 22 2021 17:19 utc | 145

@Piotr Berman | Oct 22 2021 11:35 utc | 125

if we buy XVIII boxes, and each costs XXII coppers, how much should we pay? Of course, CCCXCVIII!

CCCXCVI , not CCCXCVIII .

Posted by: Lurk | Oct 22 2021 18:04 utc | 146

Thanks, Lurk | Oct 22 2021 18:04 utc . I must admit that I am not as fluent in Roman numerals as I should be, particularly on the meaning of D and L, and I made wrong conversion because I was disturbed by that thought.

My recurrent beef with Jackrabbit: whenever he disparages populists, he puts them in quotes, and adds "phony", least to cast a shadow on a genuine populism. But when he disparages self-proclaimed Left or Progressive, he does not use such quotes. In my mind, most of "Left" and "Progressive" elements that one can encounter in places like Op-Ed of NYT are like tree logs in Petrified Forest National Park: they look quite attractive, but all the original matter was replaced -- in the case of Petrified Forest, by silicate minerals, in the case of humans we discuss, by silly ersatz ideas.

Of. course, silly ersatz ideas themselves originated from some actual ideas in the sociological analog of the geological process I have mentioned. I highly recommend to visit Petrified Forest if you are nearby, or even better, on a vacation trip.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 22 2021 18:53 utc | 147

Piotr Berman @148

Those who would shill for America's Democrats have to be really subtle on MoA. Tough crowd here.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 22 2021 19:21 utc | 148

Piotr Berman @Oct22 18:53 #148: My recurrent beef with Jackrabbit

Piotr, I have denounced faux populists Obama and Sanders many times. How did you miss it?

The theme I write about constantly is that the Deep State Empire Managers control both Parties and the media. Divisive politics and media-hyped partisan politics is the result. Now they are preparing the country for war so they are moving us to the right.

So you see, you have no 'beef' with me.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 22 2021 20:28 utc | 149

Those who would shill for America's Democrats have to be really subtle on MoA. Tough crowd here.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 22 2021 19:21 utc | 149

Regarding this would-be throwdown currently going on with the rabbit, what does this tie back to? Is there a specific thread where this was initiated or came to a head?

In my reading of various MoA threads over the past few years, It's my opinion that you've been less forthcoming with where you stand politically than he has, and I've not seen any deference to democrats (not saying it hasn't happened; just haven't seen it). Does not the 'power-elite' benefit from the current Woke Wars like they did with the Culture Wars? The 99% are divided along fractious but shallow lines and kept distracted while the uber-rich, ultimately trans-national elites steal and stash away more and more of the national treasure wherever they can make inroads economically and get a grip with their tentacles.

Yes, it's true - in this insane atmosphere, people can be 'canceled' and lose their jobs and livelihoods for ridiculous allegations before any of the accusations have even been vetted or understood. But isn't that also an argument against the 'right to work' and other union/labor busting activities and laws that have been implemented in the past 50 years (in the USA anyway)? It was only in the 1990s that the Democrats finally sabotaged and divorced themselves from labor, but the Republicans/conservatives had been (and continue to) use every opportunity to cement the real levers of power in the hands of banks and corporations at the intended expense of the working man who, again, is kept divided along lines consistently benefiting the moneyed elite and not any real causes that can accurately be tied to real leftism - the ones that are *allowed* to be disseminated in the corporate media and conservative corporate media are always surface level and temporary but the scope, scale and inertia of the theft run deep, long and have been consistent across every "culture war" type scenario in the USA.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 22 2021 20:35 utc | 150

Tom_Q_Collins @151: ...you've been less forthcoming with where you stand politically..."

I've mentioned it a few times, but I suppose you could say I am Trotskyist, though not the kind on the CIA payroll that most people are familiar with these days. Marxism is a science and Trotsky has provided the most recent significant refinements to that science, and going with simple "Trotskyist" is a lot easier than "Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyist". I suppose more accurately you could say I am a Marxist who respects the thread of development of that field of science represented by Lenin and then Trotsky.

But then that is not really a political stance, such as being a Democrat party operative. It'll have to do, I guess.

"...I've not seen any deference to democrats..."

And you're not supposed to. If you did then the bunny's efforts would have been a failure and he would get "impostor syndrome" every time he cashed his paycheck. That would be so tragic.

Sure, divide and rule serves the big business elites, but a 50-50 split in the population is not good enough. The "woke" ideology was supposed to be planted in the subconscious of Joe Everyman, and when that has been accomplished then the population split is not just into two big chunks but rather into 300 million little individual pieces. The goal of wokeness is to atomize the population into its smallest divisible particles possible, not just create a few coarse splits. Trump's unexpected victory in 2016 partially exposed the plot, which greatly weakened it. With that said, hundreds of $billions have been invested in preparing for "Woke America" and those sunk costs are too much to abandon. Decades of entertainment media steering the population towards the great atomization have to be salvaged.

Of course it is not going to save the big business elites in the end, but they have to try.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 22 2021 21:30 utc | 151

William Gruff @Oct22 21:30 #152:

And you're not supposed to. If you did then the bunny's efforts would have been a failure and he would get "impostor syndrome" every time he cashed his paycheck. That would be so tragic.

This is pure bullsh*t.

I've been commenting here for years. In that time I've been consistently against neocons and anti-democratic forces. And I've criticized BOTH Repulican and Democratic Presidents/leadership as corrupt stooges. Any reader can look back at my record.

The 'imposter' is Gruff who claims to be a Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyist but makes comments designed to run interference for the establishment.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 22 2021 22:40 utc | 152

The goal of wokeness is to atomize the population into its smallest divisible particles possible...
______________________________________________________________________
I guess somebody might think that makes sense. I thought individualism was the enemy of the state.

Personally I don't know what the heck "woke" is, but whatever it is nobody seems to like it, with the possible exception of some guy named Dave Chappelle, who I reckon from the comments I read here, said something funny about woke. I don't know if his joke was again it or for it but apparently it was funny.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 22 2021 22:40 utc | 153

Transgender is a social construct that ignores the reality of science.

In biology and botany when an organism has the outward appearance of another organism but is genetically distinct the usual prefix is "pseudo".

A social transgender woman is scientifically a pseudo-woman. They choose to represent themselves as a woman, which society should accept, but they are not women.

They have a Y chromosome. They may take drugs to suppress testosterone and oestrogen for feminisation but they don't have e.g. the prolactin and oxytocin of a woman. And, importantly they don't have the organs of a woman.

Denial of scientific fact to meet artificial social constructs is dangerous - as Putin makes clear in the next posted article.

Posted by: Ian | Oct 23 2021 8:24 utc | 154

Answer: In tears.

Posted by: restless94110 | Oct 23 2021 12:05 utc | 155

Posted by: jinn | Oct 22 2021 22:40 utc | 154

The USA is not a state, it is an empire, empires are NOT like states. Empires like atomized subject peoples, for obvious reasons. We used to want to be united here, but that ended in the 60s, it's been divide and rule ever since, that is why things have gone to hell here, the government no longer has our back, it does NOT want to help us get our shit together. And yes, we are a subject people at the moment, no question. You can tell that Russia is not an empire anymore because it gives its citizens a real education, for free. We stopped being citizens here for good under Bush the Lesser, but it started in the 70s. We've all been reduced to consumers now, useless eaters. Empires are like farms, they like slaves, people who will work for a little food and not much else.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 23 2021 12:27 utc | 156

For fifteen years this old hippie had a roommate who would be considered trans by many definitions. His description for himself was “pervert and proud of it”. His pronoun was he, except when wearing a dress. When wearing a dress he liked to be a she, would never get upset if someone forgot or wouldn’t play along.

Perfect roommate as he was out of town a minimum of two weeks a month, worked 100 hours a week when in town. And paid rent like clockwork. Many who knew us assumed we were lovers and neither of us paid any mind to such foolishness. Stupid people project constantly.

His current business, in retirement, is selling costuming to showgirls of all genders. Also has a lot of farmers who drive into the city to his store, he is the only vendor the farm folk feel comfortable with. The farmers and the showgirls get along just fine. My own experience is that all the pervs get along just fine. Their struggles are always with themselves. And they are just wholly unpolitical. The store is pretty darn prominent on the local trans scene and has never had a woke customer. None. Never comes up. As far as the trans community I know is concerned the woke are loudmouths, Karens, Democratic operatives. The concerns of the woke and the trans don’t intersect at all. The woke are not living the life and know nothing about it.

There is actually some concern amongst trans persons I know about political promotion of gender dysphoria. And all of them are wholly averse to political conflict, they seek to avoid that. They figure they get along just fine and always have, Seeking out enemies is not part of the program.

Most places I would mention any of the above I instantly transform to an intolerant homophobe bigot. Whatever. So mostly I keep my mouth shut. Living in this city it gets easy to spot the ones who will go off on a tirade if they are not continuously coddled and placated. There are, unfortunately, rather a lot of them. The most bothersome is when my wife gets accused of being a racist. She has a black son by previous marriage. All racists have black children, doncha know. Not a defense against those convinced of their righteousness.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 23 2021 13:34 utc | 157

jinn @154: "...I thought individualism was the enemy of the state..."

In addition to the observations made by Bemildred @157 I would like to point out that excessive individualism is the enemy of community, which puts it into opposition to the state only to the degree that the state is trying to build community. Excessive individualism is celebrated by business that must employ a workforce, on the other hand. Rugged individuals will not organize themselves into unions that can challenge the authority of the employer, after all. The excessive individualist will not see common cause with his coworkers and instead negotiate as an individual with his employer. Employers like things that way as the uppity individual can just be fired and easily replaced, while a united workforce has real power to enforce their demands.

Some individualism is a good thing. It adds spice to a community. The question is where does one draw the line between a healthy amount of individualism and unhealthy egocentrism and narcissism? Where does pursuit of individuality become sociopathy?

For concrete examples we can look at the United States where cult of the individual; where individual identity has been very heavily promoted at the expense of community. Anyone who thinks this has resulted in a healthy society are idiots who don't get out of their parents' basements enough to know any better. This is even more heavily promoted in American foreign policy (imperial policy, to cross over with Bemildred's post above) because, quite obviously, it makes satisfying imperial interests much easier. Dealing with a nation with a population believing itself to be "individuals", even if they look like a pack of clones from the outside, is far cheaper and easier (thus more profits extracted) than a nation that possesses real community. Look at places like Taiwan, western Ukraine, and Hong Kong where western marketing experts can practically remote-control large parts of the populations with trivial ease.

China, on the other hand, is trying to build a balanced national community. Meanwhile the empire is trying to seed the notion there that individuality to the point of psychosis is a positive and "liberating" thing. The CPC (which, by the way, is distinct from the Chinese state... if that confuses you then you don't know anything about China and need to study up a little more) wised up to the western identity cancer and cracked down on the promotion of girly-boy celebrity nonsense.

Aside: China's crackdown on promotion of effeminate male personas does not mean that they are trying to turn China's male youth into hyper-masculine super-aggressive bundles of sociopathic violence like America has sadly succeeded in doing to much of its young Black population. The East Asian masculine ideal has for long been a balance between strength and empathetic sensitivity, with the Chinese throwing in a heavy dose of intellect to round things out (China has more statues of poets and scholars than they do of war heroes). China's intention in the crackdown is to focus the masculine ideal back on balance and squash the insidious appeal of "victim culture" before is takes root in their society. After all, what status can a girly-boy hope to achieve other than warped status based upon perceived victimhood?

On the point of individuality to the point of psychosis being a "liberating" thing, it actually is. Empathy is very clearly a burden and a handicap to those who wish to succeed in business, which is to say succeed in a capitalist society like what the USA has. Being a psychopath is true freedom, as many in western Ukraine have come to understand from America's tutelage.

To repeat the key point here, excessive individualism is the enemy of community, not necessarily the state.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 23 2021 14:14 utc | 158

“This idea of intellectual debate and rigor as the pinnacle of intellectualism comes from a world in which white men dominated,” she replied.

Whoa. What a catastrophic non-answer. That woman is supposed to do science?

How would science happen if we stop to use intellectual debate and rigor? What shall decide the veracity of a theory, the rightness of a formula or the correctness of a scientific fact? The height, color or gender of the person who utters it? The emotions of those who hear of it?

Compliance with the narrative is the most critically important feature of "woke science". All cases of non-compliance with the narrative have to be cancelled, along with their proponent.

The covid-19 narrative is the ultimate example of "woke science", where logic, rigor and intellectual debate are banned, and compliance with the narrative becomes the only measure of "truth" of assertions. Scientists and medical doctors are intimidated into total compliance. Any hint of non-compliance and they will be crushed. Many brave soles have spoken out, and have been crushed. Hence the end result we have - policies make no sense and are ineffective; treatments are expensive and ineffective or even dangerous; vaccines are only for the benefit of Big Pharma, and cause multiplication of resistent variants; statistics are so unreliable that any use of them is questionable, because the underlying data are so heavily manipulated.

Wokeness is all about compliance with the narrative.

Posted by: BM | Oct 23 2021 15:42 utc | 159

Well, the Universe works in 'mysterious ways'...

Here I am... feeling sad & lonely and then for some odd and unexplained timing I fall upon your website, and transform my Day. Dave Chappelle & Space Jews... Lordy Lordy Lordy I now be a happy woman -- Knowing there is someone out there with a sense of humour...

Dave Chappelle & Space Jews
https://youtu.be/Tye_6wBeGkY

Posted by: Jayne | Oct 23 2021 17:29 utc | 160

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 22 2021 21:30 utc | 152

-and-

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 22 2021 22:40 utc | 153

It's so strange. I believe both of you. Yet I still think Gruff comes down on the side of keeping Confederate monuments in place where 'da black folk never had a chance to vote on them and are forced to gaze on them every day.

Gruff, you mostly fell for the "mostly violent" angle on the Floyd protests didn't you? As though "violence" was easily quantifiable and assignable to one "side" or the other. As though when large groups of humans congregate that there's any real way of controlling what fringe (or co-opted) elements do.

I suppose I need to make an expository statement. Part of the reason I'm even this invested in the conversation and MoA is precisely the contributions of b (of course) but Gruff, jackrabbit, vk, fnord and others. I'm not so much swayed by the Christianists like Nemesis and I don't much care for the far right leanings of Smith and others whose entire worldview and existence is predicated on what happens in the global new colonial south (i.e.; Aussies and Kiwis).

Gruff I truly appreciate your viewpoints in the way you express them, but in the last year or two you've seemed to sway toward the not-so-openly-yet-still-quite-openly-open-to far right mindset in the current USA. You've summarily shat on the George Floyd protests as though they're literally all in bad faith and violent (they aren't even though some mostly CORPORATE and ESTABLISHMENT actors would allow that impression to dominate the narrative).

On top of all that, I've been accused of being an "intelligence" community plant because I misunderstood a certain Kennedy quote that was actually hyperlinked in an article posted to Strategic Culture by another regular. Of course that's nonsense.

I suppose this is all to say that I enjoy reading, rather than participating in the comments here, but occasionally I get roused to call a spade for a spade, and I think you (Gruff) and him (the Rabbit) are not, in reality, opposed to each other if you're both honest about the situation.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 24 2021 5:35 utc | 161

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 22 2021 21:30 utc | 152

I respect your opinions but I ask you this: How much regular contact do you have with the *current* youth? The ones that literally nutcase white exurbian parents in my very neighborhood accuse the school districts of teaching "critical race theory" to? They're teaching the actual truths of history. Race is NOT being introduced into math outside of some bizarre exceptions like what's allegedly being implemented in Oregon. That the CIA and "intelligence" agencies have adopted "woke" and "me too" is enough proof to me that it's a cynical ploy by jackrabbit's "power elite" so keep us all divided. It's working, and the proof - to me - is that previous left-leaning, egalitarian leaning authors like Greenwald (actually more of a dipshit libertarian with a good sense of logic) and Taibbi (a priveleged dick who really kinda sorta acknowledges it and still is a good writer) are now catering to the right in a cynical money grab on Substack. You can find me there under the handle of mangohuffym3 and the hate and illogical BS I get is easy to see.

Anyway, the whole point of my last few posts here is to say I find it disappointing (yet in that painfully enlightening way) to see two regulars go at each other as though each other are traitors to some cause by the other. I legitimately don't view the rabbit's take as pro Democrat party. I personally hate the Dems, but there's no arguing that the Rethugs don't have anyone like (Zionist, his main problem) Ron Wyden or that (other Zionist from Florida) guy who said the Republicans health care policy is "don't get sick, but if you do, die quickly" character.

It's a fake good cop/bad cop duopoly controlled by private finance and corporate lobbying situation here in the US. Not as though that's any secret. But what about socialized medicine and actual labor rights not to mention a social safety net that isn't characterized as a ponzi scheme narrative by the right that isn't also championed or repeated verbatim by the fake news "leftist" corporate media? Where do we go without bloody revolution given the obnoxious number of guns in the hands of uneducated, over propagandized idiots (like here in Texas where I am also a gun owner)?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 24 2021 5:50 utc | 162

Phoebe Williams is actively involved in justice, equity, diversity and inclusion work in her discipline, at Williams and beyond, most recently as a founding organizer of URGE - Unlearning Racism in Geoscience

Posted by: Passerby | Oct 24 2021 9:37 utc | 163

@55 @paco
I've never seen anyone link the war on terror to the current crt/woke/tranny epidemic before. Is there a connection?

GWOT - fundamentally stupid (you shoot bullets at Terror?) and thus anti rational and thus anti Human.

Woke - sounds nice at first, but then boys are girls thus fundamentally stupid, and everyone can see how anti rational and oppressive they are.

Is there a connection? Both are fascistic, but GWOT sprayed men like cockroaches and I don't think we see mass murder yet from woke/trans, highly profitable hormone spraying of susceptible and troubled boys and girls notwithstanding.

GWOT - led by neocons
Woke/trans - IDK

Posted by: Todd Harvey | Oct 24 2021 12:15 utc | 164

Tom_Q_Collins @Oct24 5:50 #163

Gruff and I have a longstanding dispute about the extent of Deep State political manipulation. I find that Gruff's protests have recently sharpened as I speculate on the move to the right that is coming instead of talking about past elections (particularly 2016).

Gruff initially wrote (a couple of years ago) that the very notion of Deep State political control was absurd because the Deep State fails at virtually everything. Now he attacks "the bunny" as a sneaky troll.

I applaud your even-handedness. I enjoy some of what Gruff writes too despite his contradictions: 1) a self-proclaimed marxist-leninist-trotskyist that hates Critical Race Theory with a passion; and 2) a close observer of politics that can't tolerate reasoned speculation about Deep State political control.

PS I should add that my "reasoned speculations" are not always right. I have acknowledged that I was only half-right about the 2020 Presidential election. I forecast that Trump's stature would be heightened (to one of "dear leader") via his re-election as the Deep State sought to deepen the Cold War. Though Trump lost the election, he did gain in stature via his virtual martyrdom and Biden's failure to accomplish much of anything. I now see this 'pause' to let the Democrats fail as a brilliant political strategy that sets up a stronger move to the right.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 24 2021 13:30 utc | 165

Bemildred wrote:

Empires like atomized subject peoples, for obvious reasons. We used to want to be united here, but that ended in the 60s, it's been divide and rule ever since
__________________________________________________

I can't see how your statements cast much light on the meaning of woke. Nor is it obvious to me why empires would like atomized subjects.

It has been my observation that atomized subjects would be diametrically contrary to the observed strategy of divide and rule (AKA Duopoloy).

Duopoly is like monopoly, but duopoly is supposedly different in that it offers people a choice. But actually there is choice only in those issues that are not critical to maintaining power structure and no choice on any issues that are critical to the survival of TPTB. The ideal strategy of divide and rule is to herd people into two equal and opposite camps that effectively cancel the power of each other.

As I said I don't know what the heck woke is but I'm guessing it is not really important to the survival of TPTB. However, as a concept it looks like it probably is an abstraction that helps maintain the division of subjects as close to equal and opposite as possible.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 24 2021 13:44 utc | 166

Tom_Q_Collins @162: "...[you are] openly-open-to far right mindset..."

Yes, I am "open" to what you call the "far right mindset". I am also open to what you might potentially recognize as the far left mindset, though I certainly wouldn't bet on that recognition. My suspicion from reading your comments is that your understanding of the left-right spectrum is that it pivots around being nice to those unlike oneself vs being mean to those unlike oneself. In my perspective those issues are completely orthogonal to the real power dialectic in society. Kind words and gestures are not going to solve life issues for the American working class, be they Black, white, female, male or other.

My definitions:

Right - Fighting for to preserve the existing power dynamic.
Left - Fighting to implement a replacement power dynamic.

If you truly believe the power dynamics are all about race and you think Malcolm X was going senile and had it a little mixed up when he said "You cannot have capitalism without racism" then you probably think that you and I are on the same page with this, but we absolutely are not. The power dynamic is strictly labor vs capital, though this can manifest in a number of ways (capital likes to keep its power disguised). Race, ethnicity, Coke vs Pepsi, Ford vs Chevy, and whatever other differences big business can find to split the working class on are only significant to the degree that they break class consciousness and disrupt the ability of the working class to organize itself. Real socialists don't oppose racism due to that being central to socialism, but rather because a united working class is necessary to defeat capitalism. It's not necessary for workers from one cultural background to appreciate or "respect" the differences of workers from another cultural background. It is perfectly OK to think and even say out loud that they believe the food those other workers prefer isn't fit to feed a dog, or the way they wear their pants is stupid. It is even perfectly acceptable to a real socialist if a worker says the music some workers from a different background prefer is dumb and the way they talk is messed up. The workers don't have to all love each other. For socialism all they have to do is work together productively. Once the bosses are no longer inflaming the divisions in the working class because they have been removed from power then cultural differences will resolve themselves naturally.

"you mostly fell for the "mostly violent" angle on the Floyd protests didn't you?"

No, I fell for the "mostly stupid and entirely remote-controlled" angle on the Floyd protests, riots and looting sprees. Nobody "protests" at night with Militiv (Ukrainian spelling) cocktails. Those are called riots. Socialists stand for discipline and organization, not mob rules. The Floyd riots were just color revolution tactics deployed domestically.

And really, couldn't the "protesters" have found a better case to rally `round? Floyd was a scumbag asshole who killed himself by eating his own amphetamine stash when he saw the cops coming. Chauvin was an asshole too (practically all cops are), but he didn't kill Floyd. Chauvin was just the sacrificial scapegoat to satisfy the bloodlust of the retarded mob. But Chauvin is a cop so he almost certainly has done something at some point that deserves prison so I'll not shed any tears for him.

By the way, I am all for defunding and dissolving all police forces nationwide. I think that would lead to some very interesting developments.

"Race is NOT being introduced into math..."

This is a failure to understand what is really happening. You cannot inject stupidity into math and still have it be math. Rather what is happening is that formal math with logical rigor is being de-emphasized and even removed from the curriculum... even at university. There is no such thing as "Black math". There can never be any such thing. Instead what we are seeing is the "Harrison Bergeron" approach to making something called "math" more accessible even to people who have no interest in learning it in the first place. The goal is "Everyone gets a trophy for math excellence!" This requires that the subject formerly called "math" be something that the student can bullshit their way through without ever even cracking the textbook open, kinda like "Social Studies" and "Literature".

As for "contact" with youth, until fairly recently I was employed in education as... wait for it... a math teacher! And a math instructor and a linguistics instructor at college and a few more subjects as well. I just couldn't handle how education in the US was being corrupted any longer, and for other reasons I couldn't readily return to teaching abroad where the undamaged students are.

What students are being indoctrinated with isn't precisely "Critical Race Theory", but that is close enough to the ballpark for non-specialists to rally around. Again, it is more like the "Harrison Bergeron" version of education. By a very large margin the #1 priority in American schools has become fostering a positive self-image in the students. Rather than doing that the old fashioned way by presenting the students with a variety of difficult challenges that they can feel a genuine sense of accomplishment from doing well in, the students are instead presented with contrived and unchallenging "challenges" that anyone can appear to excel at. Everyone gets a trophy! Everyone gets a gold star for their forehead! Everyone passes! The problem, of course, is that a number of students are not actually stupid, just lazy and with no self-discipline, but they are alert enough to realize that the challenges they go through the motions are are not anything to be proud of. Their self-esteem is a fraud and is based upon nothing at all. They end up with "generalized anxiety disorder" and "impostor syndrome".

Everyone now has the empty appearance of high self-esteem, but nobody knows calculus. After all, if some kids are learning calculus then won't that negatively impact the self-esteem of the ones who cannot even add integers without a calculator?

Calculus is on the way out, and justifications are already being made for the change. Instead, students will be trained (like monkeys and dogs) to use calculators (and computers; same thing) to "visualize" data.

Make no mistake, this absolutely is "dumbing down" math and replacing the logical and orderly way of understanding the world that traditional math imparts with simple training to use specific tools.

One of the linked articles decrying traditional math education: "...an unnecessary pit stop to contemplate Euclidean proofs..."

If these people do not understand the point to learning Euclidean proofs in formal geometry then they have no business being anywhere near a math curriculum. Unfortunately these are the people gaining influence and changing math curricula nationwide.

And then: "...calculus is a horrible and inequitable filter."

Equitable? Well, I guess we wouldn't want to "filter" out from our engineering programs people who cannot learn calculus, would we? That just wouldn't be "equitable".

This isn't introducing race into math, it is instead effort to make math more "equitable".

This stuff is real and it is happening as we chat about it in this forum. Personally I have become OK with it. This lunacy that you cannot accept is really happening is just another facet of the death of empire. As the empire dies delusion and belief in fantasy grows.

"I personally hate the Dems, but ..."

You're a liar.

The bunny does this kind of damage control for the Democrats deliberately. Perhaps you simply don't realize that you are being a partisan moron out of some kind of habit from before you started to realize how scummy the Democrats really are. Then again you could be a pro just like the bunny trying to sell shit to a crowd that isn't buying: "Yeah, I'm like you! I really hate shit too, but this shit is better than that shit!"

"...I think you (Gruff) and him (the Rabbit) are not, in reality, opposed to each other if you're both honest about the situation."

I am honestly not opposed to as much as 90% of what the bunny posts. That 90% is the sugar coating necessary to get the reader to swallow the poison pill. I prefer to peel that sugar coating off of its toxic payload before consuming it, though.

I have some advice for you. First and foremost you need to climb down out of the racism hysteria tree. Work hard to shift away from your habit of looking at issues through a filter of race and instead start looking at things from a class perspective. Whether you see a Black working class man or a white working class man (or woman or other or whatever), notice first and most importantly that they are working class. Focus not on how they are different but instead upon what they have in common. This shift will be very difficult for you but it is entirely doable.

By the way, Bernie Sanders does the above. Prior to Sanders getting Trump Derangement Syndrome after Trump won in 2016, whenever anyone with an unhealthy fixation on race tried to get Sanders to criticize the "white deplorables" he would redirect the question to a class view. Watch the old interviews and see for yourself.

"Where do we go without bloody revolution given the obnoxious number of guns in the hands of uneducated, over propagandized idiots..."

Sanders would never have characterized the "white deplorables" this way, and if you wish to be involved in positive change then you need to get over it too. Develop some humility and recognize that your "liberal arts" education was mostly propaganda. Accept the fact that these "uneducated idiots" might actually be less brainwashed than you yourself, and that they might have genuine concerns. Try to overcome your own prejudices and try to communicate with them for real. Do not try hitting them over the head with the racism that you imagine defines their identity because you are wrong about that aspect of them and they will correctly see it as an attack on them by a brainwashed moron with an overly high opinion of himself. If you really are at least as smart as those idiots then you should be able to shut up and listen to them without mentally twisting what they say to fit your prejudices of them.

Those "idiots" are your allies and you need them on your side if you want to beat big business. Your efforts to get those "idiots" to internalize and agree with your indoctrination about race is never going to succeed, so give that up. That would be precisely the same thing as Victoria Nuland's recent trip to Russia trying to convince them to become what America wants them to be because she is absolutely certain that is the right thing for them to do. She's wrong, of course, and so are you about race. And those issues are very much more closely related than they might seem at first glance.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 24 2021 14:28 utc | 167

Bemildred wrote:

Empires like atomized subject peoples, for obvious reasons. We used to want to be united here, but that ended in the 60s, it's been divide and rule ever since
__________________________________________________

I can't see how your statements cast much light on the meaning of woke. Nor is it obvious to me why empires would like atomized subjects.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 24 2021 13:44 utc | 167

Good, I have nothing much to say about "wokeness". Looks like another stupid media frenzy, that's about it.

Empires like atomized subjects because they are predatory, and atomized subjects don't present much organized resistance. Pretty much the same reason corporations don't like unions.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 24 2021 14:39 utc | 168

@168 William Gruff

Damn, I enjoyed that. Thank you. Excellent analysis.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 24 2021 17:50 utc | 169

@ William Gruff | Oct 24 2021 14:28 utc | 168 with the education...thanks

I have always seen math as a difficult but cross cultural language that humanity continues to build to describe stuff.

I am with Jackrabbit in believing that there is only one ruling cult of folks that make it look like left/right instead of our top/bottom reality. And I believe they are sickly competent but their puppets are not of the same cloth, hence, stupid failures.

Humanity would not be able to exist/function as we do without planning. The question we have before us is who does that planning and to what/whose ends. I was heavily involved in public future studies 50 years ago and that concept was killed like Occupy Wall Street but few noticed because of Vietnam.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 24 2021 18:15 utc | 170

@168 William Gruff @170 Grieved

Yes!

Posted by: spudski | Oct 24 2021 20:33 utc | 171

Tom_Q_Collins, William Gruff, jinn, Grieved, spudski, and everyone

Gruff's heroic tirade @Oct24 14:28 #168 against the Democrats is easy because the Democrats have made it easy.

Gruff wants us to ignore that. Gruff attacks me for suggesting that USA politics is 'fixed' around Empire priorities then pretends that the Democrats over-reach and over-promising, and ineptness is genuine. Gruff's know-nothing POV is consistent with 'populist conservatives' who see Democrats over-reach as power-grab that uses race as a dagger into the heart of the Republic.

Those who cheer Gruff are not helping. Anyone that sees through the political manipulations and media-hyped partisanship are deeply concerned about what appears to be an orchestrated move to the right that is coming like a steam-roller.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 25 2021 0:54 utc | 172

JR !! @173

I actually agree with the points you make a lot of the time.

Posted by: spudski | Oct 25 2021 2:48 utc | 173

aside from the question of whose allegiance gruff or rabbit have sworn to - red or blue, can gruff and rabbit tell us the way forward here? we can all conjecture about what is wrong with the present world.. i don't believe it is about picking team red or blue... i think at this point the wheels are coming off this usa empire and it is only a matter of time for this to be completely clear... why bother picking on others or using them in a negative manner to frame a particular viewpoint?? so what we if don't all share the same limited viewpoint?? why not see how all viewpoints are indeed limited because they are personal??

whether its team red or blue in the next election results ain't going to matter... i don't believe either one of these posters is hoping for a red or blue outcome, but maybe i am naive and they both are rooting for one or the other.. i don't think it matters at this point.. gruff and rabbit - no need to reply or offer a thought on my little rant.. of course you can post all you want if you want too, lol.. i don't see any utility in trying to tear down another person because one thinks they are playing tricks on others... it will all work out no matter the games little people play..

Posted by: james | Oct 25 2021 3:47 utc | 174

Recently in the uk several politicians have been on TV saying how vulnerable the TRANS community is.

And here's the facts which show that those claims are completely untrue:

"We know that there have been just eight reported murders of people who defined themselves as transgender, transsexual or cross-dressers in the UK since reporting began in 2008.

Even trans organisation Transrespect, which includes people who have committed suicide and people whose death was originally and erroneously treated as suspicious in their numbers for ‘murdered’ victims, says the number from 2008 to 2020 is eleven.

Note that the UK is not a European anomaly - in Germany there hasn’t been a murder of a trans person since 2008.

26 countries in Europe have reported no murders of trans people for the entire period.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable

Posted by: WakeyWakey | Oct 25 2021 8:37 utc | 175

james @Oct25 3:47 #175

Allegience

I'm not asking for anyone's allegiance. Anyone with a good knowledge of history and an open mind can see the truth of my 'reasoned speculation'.

The way forward

Gruff overstepped by calling me a secretive troll for the Democratic Party. That assertion makes no sense (as I've explained in the comments above) and I think Gruff knows it. I'm not expecting an apology, though.

IMO Gruff made that assertion in an attempt to protect the authenticity of the popular conservative movement. IMO Gruff is either a shill for that (pro-establishment) movement or he's caught in the hyper-partisan mindset. But I have no definitive proof ("smoking gun") so there's a chance that he's right and my 'reasoned speculations' are off-base. I only urge readers to think for themselves. And we will know soon enough who is right.

I will continue to make note of developments that support my POV. I expect that Gruff will continue to object. That's how moa works.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 25 2021 12:27 utc | 176

james @175: "...tell us the way forward here?"

First and foremost people must cultivate class consciousness in themselves. Even if you hate what that pro-life or abortion rights person stands for, or you think either political correctness or insensitive word choice is stupid, or you feel inclined to hate people wearing Abercrombie & Fitch or Carhartt t-shirts, recognize that if they are working class then they are on your team. Recognize that where your opinions differ they might be right about some things and you might be wrong, or that the difference of opinion might not be a big as you assumed at first.

When you have that part down pat then next you need to organize. Ideally one works at a workplace where you get a paycheck. This is the heart and soul of the working class experience and is the place where organization has the biggest impact, but organizing in your neighborhood works great too and tends to be less risky while you are getting your feet wet. Organize a reading or movie review club and encourage the discussions in that club to go in political directions, but not too abstract that you get into the red-blue bullshit. If local issues come up discuss those and what your group can do to influence things (note: if you are working with a reading club then you might want to spin off an organization with a different name, like "Community Garden Project" or "Campaign for a Municipal Solar Farm". Do some outreach at a nearby park or the local flea market or farmer's market or craft fair or classic car show or wherever people congregate. Do your outreach in the form of a hotdog or falafel stand to help give the curious a nudge in your direction. Build a mailing list, and/or develop a website to keep people informed about how the community garden or whatever is coming along. Do your group activities with the ultimate goal of growing your organization and spinning off new reading clubs in other areas.

Where your reading group reaches agreement you can then dabble in politics, but keep it local and independent of the red-blue bullshit. If you've grown the club such that you've spun off branches in other areas then that defines the reach of the politics you can get involved in.

In my case we have just a generic neighborhood association with small meetings every other week, though we try to do something special once every month or two to have a big community meet-up. We're big enough that the city sends people from various departments to each meeting to discuss what's up and allow for community Q&A. Though we are judicious in how we use it, we do have some clout and the city takes us seriously. And our neighborhood isn't even a rich part of the city; just regular working class streets of single family homes.

In any case, the way forward at this point is to organize, organize, and more organizing. In most parts of North America that organizing is going to have to be started from scratch, but you never know. There could be the remnants of an older neighborhood organization in your area that can be revitalized, or your workplace could have a moribund union where the leadership has lost touch with its purpose and needs replacement. Campaigning internally to make a union local relevant (to the workers) again can be a lot of fun and can have a much bigger impact than expected.

The key is that if you start with solid class consciousness yourself then all of your organizing will automatically go the right way, even if you only end up organizing a knitting club or a fishing club.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 25 2021 12:27 utc | 177

William Gruff @Oct24 14:28 #168

I've already note that Democrat over-reaching and over-promising make criticism like Gruff's easy. Yet it's worthwhile to examine some of the points made by Gruff more closely.

1) Class struggle

Gruff makes 'class struggle' primary. Essentially, Gruff tells us that the capitalists are the real problem.

But (as I've previously noted many times) Sanders had his go at the capitalists during his quixotic attempt to 'take over' the Democratic Party. That attempt failed just as many true progressives said it would.

The fact is, few in the West are interested in the 'class struggle' today - at least as long as the economy does reasonably well. That makes Sanders' (and other socialist) rants against the rich little more than pointing to a dead end.

A more effective strategy would be focusing on an issue that everyone can agree on. That issue is democracy. Or rather, the lack of it in USA/West.

2) Racism

Gruff dismisses concerns about racism as just a need to accept our differences - something that naturally flows from class solidarity. But this is wrong-headed. 'Class solidarity' is actually undermined by shoving a problem like racism under the rug.

And Gruff's view of racism, or 'reverse racism', as merely a Democratic Party tool is myopic. The establishment as a whole has a hand in racism and its not a long-ago problem. Racist attitudes and policies persist. Not only in domestic policy but in international affairs where USA establishment support the apartheid policies of Israel.

What has really happened is that the Democrat side of the duopoly has exaggerated the fight against racism to the point that all whites feel accused. The Democratic Party must know that this is counter-productive - so why do they do it? The answer is best found by observing that race is not the only issue that the Democrats have failed at - failed in ways that antagonize voters, especially white voters: the border, vaccine mandates, retribution against the right, inept pull-out from Afghanistan, and more. Democratic over-reaching and over-promising is contributing to a conservative resurgence. To this observer, failing so completely seems to be a deliberate 'FU' to progressives and a 'give' to conservatives.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 25 2021 13:22 utc | 178

Wm Gruff @Oct25 12:27 #178

I agree with this. Only when people stop being sheeple will we get positive change.

The old saying that "war is too important to leave to the Generals" applies to politics. Politics is too important to leave to the pundits and politicians. Especially when Empire priorities are wagging the dog.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 25 2021 13:31 utc | 179

Human beings, almost all of them, are just obsessed with social status, for reasons that are obvious once you admit how socially dependent we are for survival and reproduction and much of everything else. Taking care of yourself in isolation is a lot of work even if you know how, which most people do not, and many at any one time are unable.

Nothing pisses people off quicker than making them look bad in front of their friends, or showing them up in competition.

And most of the bad things that people do come out of that emotional dynamic, like all the yuppies afraid of being defenestrated into the lower classes again.

To have a cohesive society, you MUST control and discipline this social competition. Much of the trouble in the West comes from making a fetish of competition and "winners", and of course the idea that the old elites are "winners" and deserve to keep their "winnings".

Nobody is that special, and most of the wealthy are not special at all. Just take a look at them.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 25 2021 14:16 utc | 180

@ jackrabbit and william gruff... i was kind of hoping you 2 didn't reply to me.. it was just something to ponder that i was offering.... but thank you for your honesty and sincerity... i appreciate it... i personally think we all have to figure out how to move forward, but others suggestions and ideas can be very helpful too.. thank you..

i happen to relate to much of what bemildred says @ 181 as well... the whole competitive vibe on a social front is really unhelpful and it seems many have been encouraged and trained into doing this.. commercials and putting vacuous stars in the news regularly doesn't help,, i am sure... i really agree with the last lines in bemildreds post... no amount of money, status, cadillac, bmw, expensive suit or whatever is doing to change any of that... people are too easily deceived as i see it..people need to look below the surface and yet most people seem to live on the surface and never consider any of this..

Posted by: james | Oct 25 2021 16:54 utc | 181

File under "oh-so convenient"

It appears that the speculation that Jan. 6th "insurrection" was stage-managed is become more certain.

'Fed-Protected' Man Identified As Mystery Instigator Of J6 Capitol Breach

The populist conservative Movement has been claiming for a long time that the Deep State supports the Democratic Party. Sometimes they also mention Republican 'moderates' a part of that unholy alliance.

If evidence emerges (as appears to be occurring now) that Jan 6th protesters were set-up, it will give a big boast to the 'populist conservatives' (aka pro-Trumpers).

Once again: IMO the coming move to the right is not happenstance. It is orchestrated.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 25 2021 16:54 utc | 182

Posted by: james | Oct 25 2021 16:54 utc | 182

Thank you, appreciate it. I also want to say that the viewpoint I am trying to express there is very relevant to how and in what way a "social credit system" might or might not be useful.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 25 2021 17:00 utc | 183

If anyone is confused by the bunny's bullshit and feels I should respond then please say so. I will otherwise just clarify a few things and let the reader figure the rest out on their own. There are plenty of smart people here so I shouldn't have to spell it out to the last detail.

One should note that many people in the US will "hold their nose" to block the stench and vote anyway if they perceive a difference in shittiness between the choices. This is what the professionals hope to exploit in a difficult environment like the MoA discussion threads. The professional knows that it is impossible to come out in this kind of environment with a full-throated endorsement of either face of the political scam show. To get anyone to listen at all they must appear to criticize both faces.

There are, however, two things the professional marketer for the establishment can do to steer votes towards the side of the scam that they represent. The first is to reinforce to the reader the inevitability of the choice only being between the two faces of the establishment. "There is no alternative". Interestingly the professional troll can reinforce "TINA" by proposing an alternative! That alternative just has to be one that is so abstract and far out of reach that nobody even considers reaching for it. This fatalism is reinforced by repeatedly insisting that the establishment is omnipotent and infallible. The reader should thus just try for the best deal they can get from the establishment.

The second thing the professional establishment steward will do is create the impression of a possibility of difference in outcomes if the reader throws their lot in with one of the two establishment political choices. While in an environment like the MoA fora the pro must criticize both faces of the establishment to gain any traction with the readers, they can still influence the readers' voting choices by consistently biasing their criticism towards one of the faces. "Face A is bad enough, but that Face B! They are downright evil!"

But the alert reader will be asking themselves why if both parties are fully bound to the establishment then why would establishment agents bother trying to steer votes one way or the other? It doesn't really matter which wins if they are both serving the same master, does it?

This side of the problem is a little more complex. The establishment isn't trying to be evil. They are trying to do what they think is the right thing. Consider: The German people didn't wake up one day last century and decide "Hey, let's be evil! Let's go out and ruin the lives of millions of good and decent people!" Of course they didn't. They were absolutely convinced that they were doing the right thing and that when they were done the world would be a much better and happier place. Likewise the ends that the imperial establishment intends to achieve seem very noble and worthy (to those in the establishment) and justify the means of getting there. The core of American Exceptionalism is the belief that American culture represents the "end of history". There is nowhere to go from here and America represents the best that is humanly possible. All that is left is some tweaking. For instance women still earn less than men, and Black Americans earn relatively little and live in crime ridden neighborhoods. The obvious reason for this situation is that Black Americans and working women are overwhelmingly working class, and the working class gets the short end of the stick by design in capitalism. Capitalism couldn't work otherwise. But issues of class are verboten among the establishment because class is an inseparable and indispensable part of capitalism, and if the structure of capitalism were the problem then we couldn't very well be at the end of history, could we? A terminal flaw in capitalism means that capitalism must pass away and something must come after. That thought cannot even be allowed in passing among the establishment.

So something else must be the cause for the problems that plague capitalist society. Thus the conviction that it is bad thoughts; "bad vibes" from white working class men that must be responsible. They must somehow be made to change the way they think to finally perfect capitalism and make America paradise on Earth!

So how do you make many scores of millions of people "wake up" to the harmfulness of their thoughts in a top-down manner in society? Part of the plan is to covertly embed models of "right thinking" in the media they consume. College students, and more recently public school students, can be more overtly indoctrinated into this "right thinking" since the role of education institutions is to teach students "how to think", isn't it? "Right thinking" is just part of that, after all, at least from the establishment perspective. Meanwhile "wrong thinking" people must be silenced; marginalized; "cancelled". They must be scorned, condemned, and convinced of their "wrong thinking". They must be publicly humiliated and forced to beg forgiveness from the "right thinkers".

But how do you publicly humiliate scores of millions of people all at once? You can partially accomplish this with a small number of people who are fans of a particular sporting franchise by having that team suffer repeated crushing defeats, but a big chunk of the whole population of the entire US all at once? Tall order!

Enter the plan that was to reach its climax in the 2016 elections. The nation's "wrong thinkers" were provided a champion to rally around; the very personification of "wrong thought", and where he wasn't entirely the perfect model of "wrong thought" the mass media could step in and embellish. Of course there was no way such a caricature of bad character could possibly win, and when he was resoundingly crushed in the polls the nation's "wrong thinkers" would know beyond question that they were the reviled minority. The icing would be that the winner was a snide and snottily condescending woman who would gleefully retort "We came, we saw, he lost! Hahaha!". The elections were to be followed by many months of planned exuberant denunciations and repudiation of the "wrong thinking" presidential candidate and everyone who voted for him. Many TV shows and dozens of big budget Hollywood movies were in the queue to take advantage of and reinforce this moment in history when the "wrong thinkers" were finally put in their place. This was to be a multi-year multimedia celebration of an epoch-defining moment in not just American but human history.

The establishment plan was an enormously stunning failure. The problem is that hundreds of $billions had been invested in expectation of the plan's success. Extremely valuable movie franchises were trashed, and it was too late to roll back the public school indoctrination programs for another try four years later. Much of the plot ended up getting exposed in a societal environment where efforts to gaslight those opposed to the scheme also failed. There was too much invested. The plan had to be salvaged at any cost, thus the banana republic style election fraud in 2020 (Mexico's President AMLO knew precisely what had happened because it had also been done to him in 2012, which is why he was the last to "recognize" the US election results).

The damage to the establishment's credibility has been huge. It will take many years to sanitize the populism from the Republican party. Until that sanitization is complete the Republicans must be allowed only limited electoral success, and then only with faithfully pro-establishment candidates.

And that, Dear Reader, is why the establishment wants you to vote Democrat for the time being.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 25 2021 17:09 utc | 184

To get anyone to listen at all they must appear to criticize both faces.
________________________________________________________________________

So says the guy who is desperately trying to appear to criticize both faces...

The goal of the establishment is to divide the sheeple evenly such that 50% think the other side are the wrong thinkers and that their side is the right thinkers.

See now everyone must listen to me because I just criticized both faces

Posted by: jinn | Oct 25 2021 17:49 utc | 185

I should further clarify a point from my comment above: The establishment was willing to temporarily taint one of their parties with populism if that were to allow them to brutally flog populism in a controlled manner. Left populism is a much bigger threat to capitalism, and Trump's candidacy was just a lark and a joke from the beginning, so the choice of which party to temporarily inconvenience was obvious.

With that said, in order to defend against the populism that Trump introduced into the Republicans and in order to try and deal as much damage as possible to the "wrong thinkers" that I discussed above, the establishment will continue to flog their own red party for the next couple years.

The establishment is beating itself up Fight Club style. It's a joy to watch. I just hope smart people can avoid letting themselves get caught up in it.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 25 2021 17:49 utc | 186

i said i think this woke movement is a distraction... of course it will be used accordingly.. silencing someone at a scientific lecture because they said something deemed ''inappropriate'' according to the thought police is a scary principle to adopt, but it appears there is nowhere better then the universities for pulling this crap over onto people... i mean, if you are controlling the agenda on what is called 'education' in the west, there is not a better place to dictate what can or can't be said then the training ground for future citizens in the work force, while enslaving them monetarily with the cost of higher education today... what a sick set up!

another random thought on the red - blue party of the usa... not being an 'americun', lol, i tend to view the attempts by some to get beyond this conversation - like myself, as not bearing any fruit.. it seems people in the usa - call them americuns, or whatever - are very attached to these 2 parties and even when they realize they are being screwed, to still feel the need to push for one or the other... i don't know the way forward myself... it is much the same bullshit here in canada where i live... i tend to view it all as the oligarch party - or what i used to refer to as plutocracy... so, i think william has a good point.. until the little people figure out a way to band together against this 1% who seem to be running everything - we are more likely to see the complete demise of this democracy facade, then anything else... it could come about a number of ways, but to my eyes, it is already coming about! it might take longer then i realize, but at this point it seems to me the corporations are calling all the shots... those working and on the corps payroll seem content with how it is going, but they are becoming a much smaller number.. i honestly don't know the way forward other then to watch and observe all the craziness that is a byproduct of a messed up system that some want to protect...

Posted by: james | Oct 25 2021 18:56 utc | 187

William Gruff @Oct25 17:09 #185

In this comment, Gruff essentially walks back his earlier comment @Oct25 12:27 #178 that simply called for people to 'wake up'. Now Gruff urges us to not vote democratic. Because of cunning establishment/Deep State planning!

Readers should examine Guff's version of the planning closely. Would Gruff even be presenting it if not for my more, um .. realistic, scenario of such planning?

Readers should educate themselves on the political goings on for the last several decades and ask themselves:

  1. Would a "populist outsider" really be allowed to take the most powerful office in USA and the lynch-pin of the Empire? Especially if the Deep State controls both Parties via AIPAC and MIC lobbies AND also controls the media?
  2. Is Trump really an outsider?

    If Trump was such an outsider' then why did he do virtually everything that the establishment would've wanted him to do, including cutting taxes/regulations, increasing military spending, and doing nice things for Israel?

  3. Is Trump really a populist? or did he just get in front of the Tea Party Parade? (with some help from a compliant media).

Also ask yourself:
  1. Was Sanders a real candidate in 2016 or just a 'sheep dog'?
  2. Was Sanders attempt to 'take over' the Democratic Party really realistic?
  3. Is Sanders really an 'outsider' as a Jew who supports Israel and as a member of Congress for 4 decades?

And:
  1. How were the Presidents of the last three decades connected to the Deep State/CIA *before* they ran for the Presidency? Were any NOT connected beforehand? What are Trump's connections?

Asking these questions and more will help guide any reader in their assessment of credility of the 'reasoned speculations' from Gruff and myself.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 25 2021 19:46 utc | 188

"Now Gruff urges us to not vote democratic."

Translation: Bad man wants you not to vote Democrat, so you should vote Democrat! We know he's a Republican because of how mean he is!

"Would a "populist outsider" really be allowed..."

Translation: The establishment is all powerful and omniscient. They can rig an election at literally the last hour even if they made no preparations because they were certain they had it in the bag.

"Is Trump really an outsider?"

Irrelevant.

"Is Trump really a populist?"

Irrelevant.

"Was Sanders a 'sheep dog'?"

Translation: The Democrats ran a candidate who pulled voters away from the official Democrat platform and got them thinking about "Medicare for All" and a "Living Wage" just so that he could then shepherd them back to the Democrat fold, only now with raised expectations that the Democrats have to find plausible excuses not to deliver on.

Yeah, that makes as much sense as Australia needing to threaten China to protect their trade routes with China from China. No sheep dogging would have been needed if Sanders had not run in the first place so saying Sanders ran to sheep dog is hardcore retarded. The question though is if it is the bunny who is retarded or does the bunny think you are retarded?

"Was Sanders attempt to 'take over' the Democratic Party really realistic?"

Irrelevant. Not only is the establishment not omniscient, neither is Sanders.

"Is Sanders really an 'outsider' as a Jew..."

Irrelevant and on top of that an effort to exploit some readers' knee-jerk anti-Semitism. Very cynical.

The bunny thinks he is smarter than you. That is a central characteristic of the "woke". Is the bunny smarter than you?

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 26 2021 0:00 utc | 189

Waiting Upon Structures to Crack (Alastair Crooke)

"...perhaps the reason the vaccine strategy is not being reconsidered, but has become cult doctrine on which the Establishment has doubled-down, is that it was conceived at the outset, not just as a means to an end – i.e. creating herd immunity via vaccines – but also an end in, and of itself."

"The unvaxed have become ‘the enemy’, in exactly the way that philosopher Carl Schmitt said that casting an ‘enemy’ is supposed to work: the assignment of a label so black and so unremittingly ‘other’ that mediation with such ‘monsters’ ‘who put the lives of others at risk’ becomes inconceivable. Such black and white Manicheanism is the essence of politics, Schmitt wrote approvingly. In Italy, for example, representatives of the political, medical and media establishment have openly accused the unvaccinated of being “rats”, “subhumans” and “criminals”, who deserve to be “excluded from public life” and “from the national health service” and even deserve to “die like flies”."

"As long ago as 1941, James Burnham in The Managerial Revolution, was making the case that the old paradigm of labour versus capitalism was passé; that progressive evolution would transition the world away from the capitalist-socialist dialectic to a new synthesis – an organizational structure made up of an élite managerial technocratic class – a type of society that was both ‘socialist’ (ESG and woke), yet also corporate entrepreneurial. It would be led by experts that understood problems beyond the ken of the public. Burnham believed this was in process to replace capitalism on a world scale (‘Davos’ calls it stockholder corporatism today)."

"At the international geo-political plane, things don’t seem to be working either. Team Biden says it wants a ‘managed competition’ with China, but why then send Wendy Sherman (who is not noted for her diplomatic skills) to China as Biden’s envoy? Why has there been this continuous chip-chipping away at the 1972 ‘One China’ policy with a series of small, seemingly innocuous moves on Taiwan if Team Biden wants contained competition (what he said he wants in a recent call with President Xi), but falters, time after time, to instigate a serious relationship?"

Posted by: ADKC | Oct 26 2021 15:38 utc | 190

The Gruff-Jackrabbit debate continues ...

Consider:

Lefty Self-destruction and Conservative Hysteria Heralds Move to the Right

It's difficult to not see through the absolute insanity that we are presented with. The Left's over-reaching and over-promising has played into the hands of the "populist conservative Movement" led by MAGA! Trump so completely that any political cynic can see that "the fix is in". Yet many can't distinguish reality from hysteria.

OMG! The liberals are coming for your money and your guns!

OMG! The trans are coming for your kids!

OMG! The blacks are coming for your money and "white privilege"!

OMG! The "illegal aliens" are coming to rape your daughters and spread Covid!

OMG! The Bidens are corrupt!

OMG! The Left is shutting down free speech! The radical Left is taking over!

Despite all-of-the-above, we still live in America where money rules and Empire-loving asshats control the media and politics. That those who have real power pretend to have lost that power should be a warning sign to those who are skeptical of TPTB. But the deluge of hysteria has overcome rational thought. So we get articles like this:

The Gaslighting Of America

that notes the Left's over-reaching and over-promising but doesn't question how fortuitous this self-destruction is for the Right.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 26 2021 16:08 utc | 191

William Gruff @Oct26 0:00 #190

Any reader can see that Gruff's 'translations' are a transparent attempt to put words in my mouth.

Then he tries to smear me with:

  • ... an effort to exploit some readers' knee-jerk anti-Semitism
  • Um ... no. Everyone knows that Israel is a prime benefactor of the Empire and everyone knows that Sanders and most establishment Jews (and Christians!) support Israel.

    Sanders background is relevant when questioning Sanders' true political role.

    And there's good reason to question that role: among other things, Sanders gave-in to Hillary ("Enough with your damn emails!") and effectively lent support to Empire/Trump's anti-Maduro efforts. Why does a "democratic socialist" provide such assistance?

  • The bunny thinks he is smarter than you. That is a central characteristic of the "woke".

    Geez, this is really stretching. I have urged readers to make up their own minds. I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me. I'm not 'cancelling' anyone.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 26 2021 16:41 utc | 192

this thread went from ''some musings on wokeness'' to ''some musings on cons and dems'' ... how the fuck did that happen? i'm blaming you two, LOLOL!

Posted by: james | Oct 26 2021 16:56 utc | 193

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 26 2021 0:00 utc | 190

Hey man I wanted to apologize for what might've looked like a drive-by on you the other day. I was genuinely curious as to your own political or at least philosophical leanings, but other things came up and I'm only now catching back up with the er.....debate.

I will say that I believe Sanders was co-opted into the sheepdog role, the first time by blatant rigging of the primary process and the second time by blatant media-DNC collusion on "Super Tuesday" when we were expected to believe that Elizabeth Warren not only lost her home state of MA, but came in like 3rd or 4th place. There were numerous exit polling discrepancies too in other places, some of which merit an examination, others which have already been explained.

But Sanders as sheep dog (or Judas goat) is entirely plausible when one also considers the notion that it wasn't entirely (or even minimally) intentional on his part.

https://www.blackagendareport.com/bernie-sanders-sheepdog-4-hillary

Personally, I think Black Agenda Report - one of the sites that broached this possibility very early on - is on the more strident side of the issue (they have numerous other reports in the 2020 cycle as well) and that what happened to Bernie is similar to what happened to Trump in the 2020 election. Collusion between the media and DNC/"intelligence" agencies to create the impression that Biden was foregone winner after Super Tuesday based on their documented history of minimizing him and villainizing him at the same time. Example: https://fair.org/home/media-malfunction-as-sanders-notes-positive-aspects-of-latin-american-socialism/

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 26 2021 18:12 utc | 194

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 26 2021 16:08 utc | 192

Not having read back up in the 'debate' throw-down thread, I have to agree with this particular post. I'd add to your list the

*OMG! The Left [sic] is trying to de-fund and destroy the police; here let the MSM and tabloid media show you all the awful crimes taking place as a result (when no PDs were actually de-funded)!!!

https://fair.org/home/the-thin-blue-lies-behind-crime-wave-hype/

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 26 2021 18:17 utc | 195

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 26 2021 18:17 utc | 196


both Minneapolis and Seattle PDs have already experienced defunding.

crime levels have since increased dramatically in both cities.

Posted by: WakeyWakey | Oct 26 2021 19:31 utc | 196


The Seattle Police Department investigated 73% more homicides in 2020 than it did a year earlier, and around “300 police officers have retired or resigned from SPD in the past 18 months, offset by about 90 new hires,” the Seattle Times reports.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/crime-homicide-murder-law-enforcement-defund-police-blm-atlanta-seattle-new-york-city-eric-adams-kasim-reed-bruce-harrell-11633464705

73% rise in one year.....

Posted by: WakeyWakey | Oct 26 2021 19:37 utc | 197

WakeyWakey @Oct26 19:37 #198

Wikipedia sheds some light on this:

The SPD has 1325 officers. If it was reduced by 300-90=210 then that is only a reduction of 12.25%. Could it be that there's other factors at play wrt a 73% increase in homicides?

We also learn from Wikipedia that: 1) SPD has about 1800 officers in 2011; and 2) the Dept has been under federal oversight since 2012.

So most of the attrition has occurred prior to the last year. AND the Feds play some important part is how the force is organized and staffed. Why have the Feds allowed the numbers of officers to fall (even before this last year)? I don't have time to look into this but it seems that there more going on than BLM's call to "defund the Police".

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 26 2021 19:59 utc | 198

Tom_Q_Collins @195

Sanders wasn't co-opted, he was robbed. Unfortunately Sanders is not a strong man nor is he particularly smart. He let the muggers walk away with his prize rather than fight them, and then he caught Trump Derangement Syndrome like so many other people of modest intellect did back then. Sanders was stupid and weak and he failed to keep in mind that it wasn't just himself that was robbed but the millions of people who supported hi campaign. He owed those people a fight to the finish but he threw in the towel.

Of course, I knew when the pressure on him was increased that Sanders would fold like a cheap suit rather than confront the Democrats, but I supported his campaign anyway because it was educating lots of people. Sure, we've taken several steps backward because Sanders wasn't as good a fighter as he could have been, but it would be a great mistake to not recognize the huge advances in public discourse Sanders' campaign is responsible for. In fact, a big part of the efforts by the liberal mass media to hype race and gender "wokeness" nonsense has been to try and divert the energy behind issues like "Medicare for All" into dead ends that are safe for the establishment. Such diversions would not have been necessary had Sanders' campaign not raised expectations.

The fact is that the Democrats are still dealing with fallout from Sanders' run in 2016. To say that the Democrats deliberately inflicted that upon themselves is illogical. The point of a political sheep dog is to round up votes that you wouldn't otherwise get on election day. In fact, though, the Democrats net lost votes in the general election due to the way they handled the primaries and their failure to adopt the Sanders' campaign's biggest issues. You don't let loose the dogs to chase voters away.

BAR has some really good contributors. That have also published quite a bit defending and supporting Sanders' campaign. As well they have recognized that Sanders was a big part in opening the public discourse to issues that were impossible before.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 26 2021 20:04 utc | 199

@199

73% murder-rate rise in one year.....

you're gonna have a hard time explaining that away bunnyboi

Posted by: WakeyWakey | Oct 26 2021 20:36 utc | 200

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