Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 15, 2021

EU Faces Migrant Backlash After Sanctioning Belarus

In June 2020 Moon of Alabama reported of a planned color revolution in Belarus. During the election in August 2020 the predicted color revolution attempt indeed happened and we predicted that it would fail. By August 15 it was clear that Belarus had found an agreement with Russia that would destroy the color revolution attempt and remove any danger from the country. Ten days later the NATO lobby Atlantic Council acknowledged that the color revolution attempt had failed and bemoaned that it had been too peaceful.

The 'west' was outraged about its failure to bring President Lukashenko down. It sanctioned the country but soon things settled down. The exiled opposition tried to keep unrest in Belarus going but had no success. No new sanctions would be imposed if nothing else happened.

In May 2021 a mysterious bomb threat against a Ryanair plane flying over Belarus necessitated the emergency landing of the plane in Minsk. When the passengers left the plane and passed through passport control two of them were found to have arrest warrants open against them. They were both lower level actors within the exile opposition.

The exiled opposition and 'western' media falsely claimed that Belarus had hijacked the plane. That was certainly not the case. Belarus handled the bomb threat against the plane by the book and it was the Ryanair pilot who had decided to land in Minsk after he had talked with his airline.

The 'west' ignored that reality and went with the fake 'state sponsored hijacking' story the exiled opposition tried to sell. It raised further sanction against Belarus. It told its airlines to stop flying over Belarus and it prohibited Belavia, the state owned airline of Belarus, from landing in 'western' cities even though Belavia was in no way involved in the Ryanair case.

That was bad news for Belavia and for the many people working for it:

May 27. /TASS/. Belavia is being forced to reduce its headcount due to the sanctions the EU imposed on the Belarusian airline after the incident with the plane of the Ryanair air carrier. The airline broke the news on its website on Thursday, adding that layoffs will not be massive.
...
On May 24, due to the incident with the Irish Ryanair passenger plane, the EU summit decided to ban Belarusian airlines from flying to airports of EU countries and flying over their territory, and also recommended that European carriers refuse to fly in the airspace of Belarus.

Belavia had to find new routes to keep its planes busy and the company going.

Soon someone, maybe Lukashenko himself, came up with an idea. There are a number of people in the Middle East who would like to live as well pampered 'refugees' within the European Union. Belarus started to offer tourist visas to anyone who asked for one and gave slight hints that it has rather open land borders with several EU states.

Suddenly the Belavia planes flying new routes between Turkey and Minsk started to fill up.

Soon there came news from Lithuania and Poland that people from the Middle East were crossing the Belorussian borders into their countries to ask for asylum. None of those eastern EU countries wants to receive any 'refugees'. They either try to push them back or to push them further west into Germany and beyond.

They also attempted to launch a pressure campaign against Belavia:

European countries are under increasing pressure to stop companies from leasing jets to Belarusian airline Belavia.

Calls for stricter measures — led by the Lithuanian government — come after the flag carrier increased the number of flights between Turkey and Minsk. The bump in flights is seen as a deliberate measure to send migrants into the EU via a new migration route from Belarus to Lithuania and Poland.

Lithuania, Poland, Latvia and Estonia on Monday issued a statement calling on EU countries to “jointly use all available diplomatic and practical means to cut the new irregular migration routes at its inception, as soon as possible.” Last week, the Slovenian Council presidency said governments should ensure “civil aviation is not instrumentalized by the international smugglers’ networks.”

The current German Foreign Minister, the rather simple minded Heiko Maas, also seems to think that the problem are 'airlines':

"Every day, hundreds of desperate people arrive at the airport in Minsk. Lukashenko is luring them with false promises to send them on a dangerous and illegal journey into the EU,” Maas was quoted as telling Bild. “The airlines that carry these people make themselves into helpers of the rulers in Minsk.”

Maas didn't single out any airline by name. But he said that “these companies must ask themselves whether they want to be part of an unscrupulous international smuggling ring under Lukashenko's leadership — and what consequences this can have for them.”

He said that the matter will be discussed at a meeting Monday of EU foreign ministers.

Hey Maas, you have SANCTIONED those airlines. They are obviously NOT what causes the problem. Your sanctions are.

The EU sanctions against Belavia are unjustifiable.

The company needs to keep paying its pilots and its planes flying. To blame it for flying well paying passengers from Turkey to Minsk, and maybe soon also from Baghdad or elsewhere to Minsk, is useless nonsense.

It has been obvious for more than a year that 'western' regime change efforts in Belarus have failed. The only man who can successfully remove Lukashenko is Vladimir Putin. He, for now, wants him to stay in his position.

The sanctions against Belavia and other Belorussian companies are unjust. The EU could simply remove them and let Belavia again fly its old routes to 'western' cities. The 'tourist' flights from the Middle East would soon end and the 'refugee' problem would be solved.

It would be simple realpolitik which is why it is unlikely to happen. The 'west', with people like Maas, is still too deluded about its own 'values' and rightness to be able to agree to simple honest deals.

It seems that Belavia will have to lease a few more planes and open new routes until the boneheads in Brussels give in.

Posted by b on October 15, 2021 at 18:21 UTC | Permalink

Comments

To funny. Thanks b

Posted by: jo6pac | Oct 15 2021 18:38 utc | 1

So often these day it seems that the unintended consequences of a measure are more consequencial than the intended consequences.

Posted by: c | Oct 15 2021 18:47 utc | 3

If the ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) were to produce an honest report into the Ryanair flight incident, it would be clear to everyone that the EU sanctions against Belavia and Belarus are unjustifiable.

Unfortunately the ICAO has already skipped two of its own deadlines for such reports which it announced back in June:

"An interim report will be presented to the ICAO Council by the end of its current session, on or near 23 June.

As RFI responses are still being sought, the investigation is ongoing, with a report expected at the Council’s next session, which begins on 13 September. "
https://www.icao.int/Newsroom/Pages/Update-on-factfinding-investigation-into-Ryanair-flight-FR4978.aspx

Posted by: Brendan | Oct 15 2021 19:08 utc | 4

Great background on the crisis and an example of your precognitive powers!

Posted by: Patient Observer | Oct 15 2021 19:09 utc | 5

If Belavia needs a new route there is one that could be very profitable. A direct flight from Kabul to Minsk (One way) might be worth upwards of $1500 per person. Cheaper than Islamabad as a destination.
*

"Pakistan International Airlines (PIA). With most airlines no longer flying to Afghanistan, tickets for flights to the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, have been selling for as much as $2,500 on PIA, according to travel agents in Kabul, compared with $120-$150 before".

Unfortunately for the shareholders, the Taliban were not having any of it for and told them to reduce the cost for Afghanis."
***
From the Prospectus, printed in glorious Talibancolor. (Black and blue, with hints of skin colour demurley revealed)

Onward foot tours from Minsk can be arranged by local guides - for a modest extra sum. There probably is also a functional Bus service.

Asking for a welcoming committee is not advised.

Posted by: Stonebird | Oct 15 2021 19:30 utc | 6

Excellent initiative. Erdoğan did the same and got millions of dollars to control emigration. The countries bordering Belarus who encouraged the color revolution will have to pay for their foolishness.
Bravo Lukashenko!

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 15 2021 19:42 utc | 7

Cet animal est très méchant:
Quand on l’attaque, il se défend

Posted by: Nick | Oct 15 2021 19:45 utc | 8

The Politico.eu article b links to and cites says in its opening sentence:

"European countries are under increasing pressure to stop companies from leasing jets to Belarusian airline Belavia." [My Emphasis]

The questioned thus begged is who/what entity is applying the pressure to stop the Erdogan Gambit employed by Lukashenko. Is it the citizenry of those nations or is it external from the wannabe coupmasters?

As with Erdogan's initial weaponizing refugees, if you don't want them then don't create them. Maybe that phrase needs to be said very loudly and often since those running the EU seem to be deaf, dumb and blind, but without any pinball skills.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 15 2021 19:54 utc | 9

great overview b... thanks... i doubt the eu will figure out anything.. they are too busy serving the usa and so down into the ditch they go!

Posted by: james | Oct 15 2021 19:56 utc | 10

Patrick Armstrong's article about the fading of Color Revolutions is a worthy read, "Colour Revolutions Fade Away", as he explores how the tables have turned.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 15 2021 20:22 utc | 11

An appropriate reaction would be further EU sanctions.

Posted by: m | Oct 15 2021 21:07 utc | 12

EU Faces Migrant Backlash ...

Just don't call it 'blow-back'. That's a naughty word. Not used in polite company.

Bad policy generates blow-back, which is often predictable. Our betters don't make bad policy. Never. Only the asshats that oppose the sacred Rules-based Order make bad policy.

Look at what they're doing now!/sarc

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 15 2021 21:38 utc | 13

If there were no nation states, there would be no boundaries to differentiate people in.. local areas would compete with each for the residents and workers and specialist they need.. and the globe could produce one educational system (in several languages) with international testing on test day.. educating the citizens of the world from their different locations in around the globe would reduce war, and the hate, propaganda produces, in the different people.

Create a room, fill it with people, who have not previously met each other, all of whom are from different parts of the world, and you pose a question to them .. in short order answers start poping up everywhere.. and the problem gets defined, its elements identified and the solution made into a set of options.

the reason that works is there is no privately created content being distributed by hundreds of different outlets, in multiple languages, with the same story being produced into different propaganda. and there is no political system to engage in the corruption the media distributed propaganda supports.

Posted by: snake | Oct 15 2021 21:55 utc | 14

Posted by: Nick | Oct 15 2021 19:45 utc | 8

Typical of the imperial European mindset, prevalent at every managerial level of the society: "fais ce que je dis, pas ce que je fais".
That's why they don't understand that Belarus is reacting to their bullying.

Posted by: Lemming | Oct 15 2021 22:01 utc | 15

How is Belavia to know if those guys aren't legitimate tourists who want to sightsee Minsk and go back to Turkey? The only thing they can do is to make sure they buy return tickets, non refundable.

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Oct 16 2021 0:15 utc | 16

Loved the previous two analysis but gotta disagree on this one. The Belarusian kgb did do this op and it proves Luka does odd things as the haul was so meagre.

Posted by: A.z | Oct 16 2021 0:35 utc | 17

Thanks b. The US and EU have been made to look foolish. Blowback is a bitch. Team NATO keeps failing and it is funny.

Posted by: Michael Crockett | Oct 16 2021 3:13 utc | 18

The outfit coordinating the "tourists" travelling to Belarus to see the beautiful cathedrals and spires wouldn't happen to be run by Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov would it? Does that tyrant Putin ever give those two boys a day off?

Posted by: Tom | Oct 16 2021 6:01 utc | 19

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 15 2021 19:54 utc | 9

"As with Erdogan's initial weaponizing refugees, if you don't want them then don't create them. Maybe that phrase needs to be said very loudly and often since those running the EU seem to be deaf, dumb and blind, but without any pinball skills."

Exactly. Those western governments who launch unprovoked, predatory, imperial wars (Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria) that generate hundreds of thousands of refugees don't want to deal with human consequences and dump them on to neighboring poorer countries that are less able to to deal with them.

Posted by: ftmntf | Oct 16 2021 8:52 utc | 20

Patrick Armstrong's article about the fading of Color Revolutions is a worthy read, "Colour Revolutions Fade Away", as he explores how the tables have turned.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 15 2021 20:22 utc | 11

Their flunkies all have a best before date. Some times there is a go at recycling (Saakashvili), a nod to Greta. It's the colatoral damage that hits the punter that happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time that really hurts. Dawn Sturgess, the Skripol's, well at least Yulia, both used, with the latter having entered Rod Serling territory. And the legal process grinds on, following the path laid before them in The Trial by Kafka. And the blindingly obvious from Patrick Armstrong "There is still some mystery in the Protasevich story, but the Western version is certainly not true.", and it isn't true in any of the other "operations" the west has run lately.

Posted by: Tom | Oct 16 2021 9:11 utc | 21

Wait till Belarus merges with Russia indy a a union state and watch the outraged shrieks about Russian aggression.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 16 2021 10:56 utc | 22

You seem to believe that bombs breed in aeroplanes like mice breed form straw and dirt. Or at least that was the belief some time ago.
Your claim about "mysteriously" appearing bomb does not pass simple "cui bono" test.

It's what it is, a hybrid war waged by Russia and Belarus, mostly driven by Lukashenko revenge.

Winter is coming. Most likely those wannabe refugees will learn the hard way what it means in Europe. Some are already feeling it.
b, maybe you would like to investigate those mysterious pills handed over by Belarussian border guards to those immigrants. These seem to be some kind of stimulant which may help or kill.

Posted by: pppp | Oct 16 2021 11:21 utc | 23

pppp @23

"Cui bono" indeed! Are you smart enough and free enough from Mockingbird mass media brainwashing to notice that it was the "Atlanticists" behind the color revolution attempt on Belarus who bono-ed the most? Are you clever enough to see how ridiculous is the nonsense story about Belarus being behind the whole bomb threat and "fighter jet intercept" just to capture a fairly low-level operator in the color revolution who is not even in prison anymore? This guy was supposed to be important enough for such an elaborate operation and the Belarussians don't even have him locked up!

Really, how stupid are you? Reply with how sure you are that Belarus was behind this incident to let us all know how dumb someone can be.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2021 12:03 utc | 24

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2021 12:03 utc | 24

Seeing through Western media brainwashing apparently does not guarantee seeing through Russian media brainwashing.
See also COVID brainwashing, by the way.

Posted by: pppp | Oct 16 2021 12:29 utc | 25

pppp @25

And how many people in the world are exposed to even a tiny fraction of the amount of Russian media that they (and you) are to western corporate mass media? You are practically swimming in pro-US/NATO brainwashing media. You've stewed in it since birth and it has soaked into your bones. Are you so far gone that you think Russian media has that kind of reach?

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2021 12:50 utc | 26

William Gruff | Oct 16 2021 12:50 utc | 26

Small reach is not a proof of being truthful.

We are living in an unique short period of time when we actually have choice to see media feed from different sides of the conflict. Knowing more than one language helps a lot. While I agree that most people are soaked in dominant narrative of their country it's up to personal choice to exit the brainwashing bath. However trading it for another brainwashing bath is dumb, no matter how small the tub may seem.

Posted by: pppp | Oct 16 2021 13:01 utc | 27

pppp @27: "...it's up to personal choice to exit the brainwashing bath."

Sure, and alcoholism and heroin addiction are just choices too.

Clearly you have not made the difficult choice to break your programming as you are here regurgitating the obviously false narrative that you have been force-fed.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2021 13:19 utc | 28

pppp@23

You write: "Your claim about "mysteriously" appearing bomb does not pass simple "cui bono" test."

It was "a mysterious bomb threat", not a "mysteriously appearing bomb". To make a threat is much easier than making and positioning a bomb. Anyone could have originated the threat, and I can't see that Lukashenko derived much "bono" from it: on the other hand, it was an excuse to nicely ratchet up the Western sanction pressure and public relations exercise against him.

So, as you say, cui bono?, indeed.

Posted by: GT | Oct 16 2021 15:04 utc | 29

A 1 hour read
I liked it
Not as good as Moon&comments, but close

https://www.russiamatters.org/news/russia-analytical-report/russia-analytical-report-oct-4-12-2021

Posted by: Carl D | Oct 16 2021 15:16 utc | 30

Its clearly a case of the West cutting off it nose to spite its face, such is the loathing for any country that supports Russia.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 16 2021 15:22 utc | 31

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2021 13:19 utc | 28

I am trying not to insult you as I do not believe this leads to a good discussion. On the other hand resorting to insults means having no other arguments and being just brainwashed into hate. You can keep your hate if you like it.

Posted by: GT | Oct 16 2021 15:04 utc | 29

So you say Lukashenko walked into a trap made for him ? That is a bit more credible but:
1. How did his minions immediately knew whom to pick off the plane ?
Are you going to say he also got hint from some western party about that ?
2. I considered Lukashenko a smarter player than that.

Posted by: pppp | Oct 16 2021 15:23 utc | 32

@PPPP His minions did not immediately know who to pick off the plane. The plane landed and all the passengers were taken off and went through border security which is standard procedure. They then realized one of the passengers was wanted by law enforcement. I also heard the subject in question made a social media post from the airport before being arrested but I think that is unconfirmed. But why make up some crap up about a bomb actually being on the plane when it was a bomb threat and than make a further false claim about them knowing who they were looking for immediately? Are you a troll? Also I didn’t read a.single Russian source on any of this, independent journalist picked it apart and told the truth on their own, not every journalist parrots NATO clap trap, some aren’t on the pay roll and they follow the facts. BTW I’m always wondering what Russian propaganda or media sources are even out there that people read, besides RT and Sputnik I do t think I’ve ever read one. Every time I call BS on a Western MSM narrative like the Skripals or whatever if I’m talking to a MSM reading person they immediately say I’m reading Russian propaganda or like you said brainwashed by some mysterious Russian media. Can you point me to a single site or source that is Russian that could have place these doubts in my head? I always ask the CNN crowd and they can’t name one. RT and Sputnik are decent fairly conservative Russian MSM sites but as far as I know they’re never been the originator of any of my doubts about MSM/CIA narratives. If you know which accounts they use to do all this brainwashing I’d love to check one out, reading propaganda is interesting to me.

Posted by: PPPP | Oct 16 2021 15:55 utc | 33

@ 33 would have been helpful to pick a different name - PPPP, or pppp - slightly confusing...

the way i see it the ryanair episode was a pre-planned frame up to shit on belarus... it was mostly successful on the short term - like the maiden event in ukraine) but ultimately a failure in the long run - like the maiden event, the syrian gas attacks, the skripal and navalny novichok stories and etc. etc.. unfortunately i believe an astute observer starts to develop a picture of the cia and company working hard to destabilize certain countries - or regimes as they are typically referred to) but not being ultimately successful in their mechanisms... of course the cia and intel agencies can rest assured the msm will carry their water for them, but it takes more to convince a discerning person, as i see it.. i too am curious about the high end russian type propaganda and would like to see it...

Posted by: james | Oct 16 2021 16:17 utc | 34

I want to congratulate b for this post, something I usually don't do since I assume there is no need to, we know what the level of the bar is, otherwise we would not hang around.

It is an excellent post since very simple elements are put together in a way that even someone that follows Belarus would easily let them go under the radar. I knew Belavia was sanctioned and Belarus airspace was avoided at a cost, but I did not know or suspect that Belavia keeps on working the only way they can, doing routes that nobody else does, or that Haiko Maas is a simple minded german minister, I only wished that b would elaborate more on German issues since I do not speak German but I live in Europe where Germany plays one if not the main fiddle.

I follow Pul Pervogo in Telegram, Luka is somebody, probably the populist par excellence but he has saved Belarus from the disasters that plagued most of the former USSR republics, plus he spends his holidays harvesting potatoes, call him the potato dictator, he would be proud of it, the kolkhoz chief is the first to go and get dirty hands.

https://t.me/pul_1/3734

Posted by: Paco | Oct 16 2021 16:39 utc | 35

WG @ 24, James @ 34:

PPPP is clearly a troll or two (or more trolls) working together at the same call centre. Notice how PPPP twists the mystery bomb threat into the clearly fake "mystery bomb appearance". Don't try talking any sense to PPPP - this person or persons will continually change the topic and disrupt this comments thread. You can see PPPP is clearly no fan of Belarus and Russia and is likely allied with whoever is backing the Belarusian Juana Guaido puppet Svetlana Tikhanovskaya or her replacement.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 16 2021 19:46 utc | 36

"PPPP is clearly a troll ..."
No PPPPP @33 is comtradicting the pppp line. As James says it is confusing nut only superficially so. PPPPP is talking sense, Jen.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 16 2021 20:14 utc | 37

'contradicting' and 'but'

Posted by: bevin | Oct 16 2021 20:15 utc | 38

Bevin is back! I wish that poster would post more.

Yes, I know that "pppp" (lower case) is a troll and I knew that when I responded. I also know that feeding trolls is bad policy, but in discussions like this I think that deliberate disinformation should be countered so that more casual readers are not lured into the FUD.

Jen is also correct, though, that communities like MoA that strongly resist the official imperial narratives must be on the lookout for more sophisticated professional trolling, which includes the double-team approach. For tough communities like this they will even use trolling that seems to mostly agree with the views of some of the posters but slips the imperial narrative in through the cognitive back door. In this case "PPPP" referring to the Belarus authorities as "His [Lukashenko's] minions" raised some flags for me. Suspicious word choice like that is how the more subtle trolls operate, like our resident bunny calling the US the "protagonist" in Syria. I don't know that "PPPP" is a troll because most of that poster's post is reasonable, but I do have a flag raised on him.

To get back on topic, the migrant issue is a clever one to play on the faux-left EU liars. Hit them right in the hypocrisy! That's gotta hurt!

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2021 20:57 utc | 39

Mr Gruff displays how far he has his head up his ass with this remark:

"For tough communities like this they will even use trolling that seems to mostly agree with the views of some of the posters but slips the imperial narrative in through the cognitive back door."
___________________________________________________________

pppp has stated that the version of the story presented by the western media is propaganda and brainwashing, but only somebody who has their head stuck far up their ass would think that means that it is required to believe a version of the story that is 100% in opposition to the propaganda to truly accept that it is propaganda.

According to the man with his head up his ass, If you accept one little smidgeon of the propaganda story as valid then you are an agent of the Empire.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 16 2021 22:25 utc | 40

To get back on topic, the migrant issue is a clever one to play on the faux-left EU liars. Hit them right in the hypocrisy! That's gotta hurt!

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2021 20:57 utc | 39

This is not accurate. Who is faux-left here? PiS (Law and Justice) ruling in Poland, with a few ultra-nationalists to maintain wobbly majority in the parliament? And a similar government of Lithuania? Of course, they are hypocritical, but at least in Poland, these are rabble rousing populist with foul mouths and very fragile egos, and they use "leftist" persistently as an invective: in Polish the normal word for "leftist" is "lewicowiec/lewicowy", and insulting word is "lewak/lewacki", so they use "lewacki" all the time to describe opposition and EU institutions.

I would also clarify that the absolute numbers of foreigners crossing into Poland are small, and the problems even smaller as they try to get as fast as possible to Germany after crossing from Belarus. The only reason that this is a "huge problem" is that the government is programmatically fanning xenophobia and hysteria concerning all folks from the Middle East, so they make a huge hysteria now. Both Poland and Lithuania are engaged in anti-Belarus activities, as Lithuanians escalated -- blocking the import of electricity from Belarus -- they cause considerable problems for Latvia and Estonia, because the Baltic region has a shortage and high prices, while Belarus has a surplus. Routing through Russia is hard, because the main transmission line to Baltics is from Belarus to Lithuania.

Never learning Lithuanian I cannot comment on their government in detail. But it is worth to notice that the sanctions on Belarus were unusually broad when announced. No banking and insurance services and blockage on the main export commodities, even the transit was blocked. Which hit the Lithuania railroad and port. Next day, Reuter's had a clarification: some grades of potash were exempt, roughly 80% of what was moving through EU, and the remaining 20% can be easily handled by Ust-Luga (the main Russian sea port on Baltic). And poor Belarussians will have to use non-EU banks and insurers, perhaps Russian.

-------
An appropriate reaction would be further EU sanctions.

Posted by: m | Oct 15 2021 21:07 utc | 12

Very appropriate. But Belarus can block transit too! Right now, blocking transit of natural gas from Russia would be a good test of EU-an fortitude.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 16 2021 22:26 utc | 41

@Tom #19

Haha! That is one of the best laughs I have had on Moon :-B

Posted by: Tim Glover | Oct 16 2021 22:43 utc | 42

"An appropriate reaction would be further EU sanctions.

Posted by: m | Oct 15 2021 21:07 utc | 12

Very appropriate. But Belarus can block transit too! Right now, blocking transit of natural gas from Russia would be a good test of EU-an fortitude.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 16 2021 22:26 utc | 41

Cause they have worked so good the first time.

Posted by: arby | Oct 16 2021 22:48 utc | 43

More sanctions? Russia would love that, what better way to unite the two countries permanently. The neocons are just that stupid, well, it isn't so much stupidity as ignorance, they are trapped in their own lies and cannot see reality, while reality moves on without them.

Mr. Gruff swatting the whataboutist trolls like slow, fat flies. The don't believe either propaganda trolling doesn't work here, and is losing its potency in the same way color revolutions are losing their potency.

Posted by: Haassaan | Oct 16 2021 23:18 utc | 44

Piotr Berman @41: "[More EU sanctions against Belarus are] Very appropriate."

Fascinating! I was unaware that this poster was a fan of imperial color revolutions. You learn something every day.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2021 0:32 utc | 45

Hey, it's the boke half of the bunny/jinn tag team manzai act!

The idiot half of the comedy duo says that even though the "pppp" troll spouts unrefined NATOad propaganda we should instead believe the troll's claims to not be influenced by propaganda.

Uh, sure!

Since the claim is being made by the boke then maybe it is supposed to sound stupid like that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2021 0:44 utc | 46

C3. …tnx muchly. The best laid plans of mice and men.

Posted by: James j | Oct 17 2021 1:43 utc | 47

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2021 0:44 utc | 46

I assume you're refering to the multi-p poppycock and not to the sarcastic Mr. Berman.

Posted by: Constantine | Oct 17 2021 2:14 utc | 48

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2021 0:32 utc | 45

Correcting myself, this is the post I was replying to, Mr. Gruff.

Posted by: Constantine | Oct 17 2021 2:16 utc | 49

Piotr Berman @41: "[More EU sanctions against Belarus are] Very appropriate."

Fascinating! I was unaware that this poster was a fan of imperial color revolutions. You learn something every day.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2021 0:32 utc | 45

I also wrote "But Belarus can block transit too! Right now, blocking transit of natural gas from Russia would be a good test of EU-an fortitude." In other words, the natural gas prices would shoot up, and this could be a multi-billion loss, something that EU could swallow, given fortitude. I was suggesting that extra sanctions would shoot "extra sanctioners" in their wallets, and quite painfully. Of course, mere losses in the standard of living in EU countries dependent on spot prices or import through that particular pipeline could be worthy it, perhaps helping toward some regime changes in EU. However worthy, even such stalwarts like Poland do not advocate it.

Poland would perhaps loose most.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 17 2021 2:16 utc | 50

Yeah!
The US should make more deals with Chynah!
Cuz iChina is great, and only wants what’s best for the world!
The FUKUS should follow China. Cuz that’s makes senses, rights?
China$ isn’t looking to take over the world or anything,
They are grrrrrrrreat!

Posted by: Cadence calls | Oct 17 2021 2:26 utc | 51

Sorry, wrong thread.

(But I bet China is proud of us for taking in so many immigrants
Proud of the EU, too!)

Posted by: Cadence | Oct 17 2021 2:28 utc | 52

William Gruff @Oct16 20:57 #39:

Suspicious word choice like that is how the more subtle trolls operate, like our resident bunny calling the US the "protagonist" in Syria.

This is Gruff's desperate attempt to point fingers.

No Empire troll would lambast the Empire managers as I did @Oct15 21:38 #13, or ask people to show love to Craig Murray on his birthday, as I did in the Open Thread. And these are only the most recent examples of years of comments against neocons and anti-Democratic forces.

Gruff dredges up "protagonist" from a long ago comment. And I will give the same explanation now as I did then: protagonist is not necessarily a 'hero'. They can be anti-hero or villain. They are the main character that moves the story along. I used the term in the sense of 'prime mover' because the Empire has had the initiative in Syria (and elsewhere). For further illustration:

  • Protagonist examples in many stories are not shown to be flawless. They generally undergo some change that causes a turn of events. This makes a story interesting and helps deliver a message. Sometimes, a moral weakness shows that causes the fall of the protagonist.
  • A protagonist can sometimes be very controversial because of some evil traits.
  • A protagonist is a very important tool to develop a story. There are different terms for a protagonist, such as hero, focal character, central character, and main character. Regardless of what title you give a protagonist, he or she remains the key ingredient in the development of the story ...

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 17 2021 3:45 utc | 53

Piotr Berman @50

"Poland would perhaps loose most."

Poland wouldn't worry at all. They probably filled to the brim in Świnoujściu with LNG gas from US of A.
/sark

Posted by: henasau | Oct 17 2021 4:23 utc | 54

Brilliant move. The EU is seeing boat loads of migrants drowning trying to get into Europe, Priti Patel is apparently attempting legislation to give immunity against deaths caused by UK boats pushing migrant boats out of UK waters. Meanwhile Lukashenko is delivering these same people to Europe in a safe and comfortable manner and keeping money out of the traffickers hands. Win win. If Obama can get a Nobel Prize I'm sure Lukashenko can have one to as humanitarian of the year.

Posted by: RZ | Oct 17 2021 7:09 utc | 55

Posted by: pppp | Oct 16 2021 11:21 utc | 23

b, maybe you would like to investigate those mysterious pills handed over by Belarussian border guards to those immigrants.


Brings back the days the Western Media, put out the story that Gaddafi was supplying his troops with Viagra, to mass rape!

Posted by: Grishka | Oct 17 2021 9:39 utc | 56

Yep, MoA is a tough nut to crack for the professional imperial narrative managers. Straight up short-form trolling like Cadence calls @51 doesn't get traction here like it does on Twitter. The trolls have to be much more sophisticated than that to make any headway selling their pro-empire narratives - or their pro-Democrat party narratives, depending upon which level they are working on. They cannot just come out singing the Star-Spangled Banner and expect everyone to automatically join in. They have to pick one point or idea at a time and disguise that point within a post that looks on the surface like it agrees with the prevailing attitudes in the community. One of the prevailing currents of thought within the MoA community is that the United States does not at present represent a force for positive change in the world and rather that, though blundering or ill-will, the US is doing horrible damage to the world. Swimming directly against that prevailing current gets the troll nowhere. The less stupid trolls (and more professional ones... the pros have committees analyzing their failures) know that they must go with the current and use more subtle techniques to nudge it in a direction less dangerous to the empire.

Will anyone who knows that the empire willfully murdered millions of innocent people over the last few decades be open to someone asserting that it was all done for a good cause? Not likely, but maybe they can be convinced that the empire is all-powerful and any effort to oppose it is pointless; take them out of the ideological fight. Or perhaps they can be convinced that all of the evil done is due to the efforts of a handful of malign personalities who seized the reins briefly and are no longer in a position to make the empire do bad things. Even that would be a tough sell to a community like this because there are too many participants who have an attention span longer than one news cycle. The non-stupid troll knows that suggestions in these sorts of directions must be dropped carefully and judiciously. Use positive sounding words to refer to the empire and negative sounding words when discussing the empires enemies and detractors. Try to get people thinking about the empire in a positive way and the empire's adversaries in a negative way.

Partial disclosure: Much of what I have discussed above is straight from an university "Ethics in Media" course, but with the terminology adjusted slightly as I am not trying to sell that version of "ethics" as a good thing. To get slightly closer to how the content is presented in class replace "troll" above with "journalist". Just keep in mind that the pro-empire social media troll serves the same purpose as the "journalist" working in corporate mass media, only in a different form of media.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2021 10:33 utc | 57

Grishka @56: "Brings back the days the Western Media, put out the story that Gaddafi was supplying his troops with Viagra, to mass rape!"

Of course you remember captagon. The best lies contain a seed of truth, and what better truth than one's own evils projected upon one's adversaries? Tie one's lie to something that actually happened while at the same time confusing the audience about who is responsible for the evil deed in the first place. Kill two birds with one stone!

The empire's narrative managers are constantly projecting the empire's own evils onto its victims.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2021 10:49 utc | 58

Cadence calls @ 51 responds

Yeah!
The US should make more deals with Chynah!
Cuz iChina is great, and only wants what’s best for the world!
The FUKUS should follow China. Cuz that’s makes senses, rights?
China$ isn’t looking to take over the world or anything,
They are grrrrrrrreat!

<= I agree with CC nation states are all part of the same system.
Each has its individualized peculiarities but the control over narrative, political power, foreign and domestic planning, size, use and abuse of military, and who is in charge, in each nation state is outside of the control of the nation states or those the nation state governs.

Privately owned imperial global oligarchs) control the nation state system, they use it to differentiate the people in each, and to pit the manipulated people in one against the manipulated people in the another..

as to the Gruff vs Jackrabbit issues concerning media above
Elements needed to design understanding are found
in descriptive art or writings.
Content is the organization of facts and events
that describe or relate a set of circumstances.

Descriptive writing or art found in most content
relates events and facts to circumstance.

The goal of writing and art is to produce in the
minds of a target audience a set of understandings.

Mind control involves distributing content which
impose intentional understanding.

Circumstance, facts and events are manipulated to produce content.

Fact, Event and Circumstance (FEC) variables allow
content to be produced into mind control propaganda.

Privately owned media control the narrative that
is discussion or news article is about.

Narrative Control allows one side contents to be
selected for media distribution especially selected
are the contents that support the media side of the narrative.
FEC variables present in actual, fabricated, or inverted forms.

Inversion is a technique often present in propaganda
designed to manipulate facts, events and circumstances in ways that mislead or inform an audience.

one example given at UNZ.com is as follows:
“A viral photo from Unite the Right depicted a group of White men holding weapons and standing over a Black man, Harris, as he lay on the ground. This photo, usually provided with no context whatsoever, was exploited by the media to help contribute to the public impression that Unite the Right attendees were violent racists on a rampage, looking to brutalize any non-Whites in sight.”

The Unz.com example can be used to explain

Inverted context induces incorrect public beliefs and understandings (mind control).

A context manipulation can present as a virtual reality instead of a reality in accord with reality.

Another likely example of narrative control and misleading content development has been revealed at
here

Here changing or inverting the context, facts, and circumstances.. produce 'mind-control" targets that can be inserted into one sided controlled narrative to win arguments and to quiet dissent.

How does the media control its narrative?
<=control over narrative is important to mind control.
Media denies all competitive narratives access to the media.

How does narrative impact content selection?
Content is produced off line, it arranges & manipulates
<= actual or fabricated facts, events context into a
set of descriptions that produce in the mind of the
audience a set of understandings, accurate or erroneous.

Content imposes designer intention<= on minds of media audiences.

Media owns its audience and sells advertisers access to audience for the revenue media needs to maintain control over narrative.

PIGO owned advertisers often contribute to the power of the MSM
when they purchase advertising access to the media audience.

The arrangement and the use of, real or fabricated facts,
events and circumstances are produced into content.

The privately owned media is guilty of narrative control while the content producer is guilty of mind control.

Content is produced by private parties, even govts hire private parties to produce mind control content with public funds. .

Media is said to be owned by just six private parties, not govt?

There is a difference between the network and the media.

The media is a content transport system.
Expressions of contents are presented in print, sound, image to receptors accommodated to those modes of content presentation.

Posted by: snake | Oct 17 2021 12:38 utc | 59

In other news: by next week it will be goinh down to freezing in Munich, Paris and Amsterdam. Russia will look like a hero then, especially contrasted against those with very cold and empty pipe dreams.

Posted by: Carnabystreet Pete | Oct 17 2021 12:44 utc | 60

As much as everyone loves China and Russia on here, I'd be interested to know when most of you will leave the Zio-West and move to either ? Why stay in the Western wasteland ?

Posted by: Anon | Oct 17 2021 13:41 utc | 61

@61 Anon
Imbecilic "gotcha" troll. Even if I don't like the prevailing political and economic conditions in my home country, it's still my home. Nothing short of a war will get me to move to a country where I don't know the people, language, or customs - no matter how advanced their societal organisation. It takes arguing in bad faith not to immediately realize this

Posted by: Merovech | Oct 17 2021 14:00 utc | 62

Sorry in my response to @pppp that I typed at #33 somehow I mistakenly typed PPPP as my moniker, I was just responding to the above lowercase pppp I meant to type James C.
36- Jen I did not twist the mystery bomb threat into a mystery bomb appearance I asked pppp who I was responding to why he did that.
Sorry for the confusion I was on the train.

Posted by: James C | Oct 17 2021 16:03 utc | 63

61 anon,
I have seen a few videos on ytube of westerners who moved to China and are quite content living there.

aside from that, people are accustomed to living in their home country and are reluctant to move away from family and friends.

Your nonsense question is stupid.

Discussing the faults in our countries and ways things could be improved is above your head I assume.

Posted by: arby | Oct 17 2021 16:05 utc | 64

I must say I find it bizarre that after I made a rebuttal to the nonsense thatpppp was saying about Belarus having an actual bomb on board and that they knew immediately who to pull off the plane- both false aspects to this storyline, I then asked him to name one website where Russian propaganda could have brainwashed us- these comments are the opposite perspective of everything pppp was saying yet several people than accused me and lowercase pppp of working together at the same troll opération! How does that work? I was debunking his ridiculous comment, my name isn’t PPPP I’m a long time reader and sometimes commenter who usually comments as James C or other similar names, that was a mistake. Anyways how on earth could we be a troll duo? What purpose would that serve? Question is for those who suggested that.

Posted by: James C | Oct 17 2021 16:11 utc | 65

William Gruff @46 the above question is for you mostly

“The idiot half of the comedy duo says that even though the "pppp" troll spouts unrefined NATOad propaganda we should instead believe the troll's claims to not be influenced by propaganda.

Uh, sure!

Since the claim is being made by the boke then maybe it is supposed to sound stupid like that.”

What are you saying here, the original pppp claimed there was a bomb on board the plane and spouted NATO propaganda, I corrected him and said I wasn’t influenced by Russian propaganda which is what pppp claimed any doubter were “brainwashed” by. I then genuinely asked him to name a Russian source that I could have been influenced by, I didn’t say I wasn’t influenced by any propaganda, nor did I ask you to believe me, I said I read independent journalist like this blog to debunk the Belarus plane incident. You seem to have had some reading comprehension problems here. Also since you now know that I mistakenly identified myself with PPPP while responding to pppp can you please apologize for calling me part of an “idiot duo”- thanks James C

Posted by: James C | Oct 17 2021 16:22 utc | 66

James C @66

Do a quick scan of this thread and then reread the post that you are getting all excited over. I've repeated it below for your convenience. Please take a deep breath and read it slowly. I've added some hyperlinked references to words that might confuse you and that you probably didn't bother looking up.

William Gruff @46:

"Hey, it's the boke half of the bunny/jinn tag team manzai act!

The idiot half of the comedy duo says that even though the "pppp" troll spouts unrefined NATOad propaganda we should instead believe the troll's claims to not be influenced by propaganda.

Uh, sure!

Since the claim is being made by the boke then maybe it is supposed to sound stupid like that."

Just curious, but were you trying to claim that "pppp" wasn't spouting unrefined NATOad propaganda? What makes you think I was talking about you in that post?

You do know that someone with the handle jinn posted in this thread, right? Or perhaps you think I am for some reason referring to you as "the bunny"?

I am sorry to see that your own reading comprehension is not as good as you seem to think mine should be. If this were a real bar I'd buy you a drink to ease your panic as I think you're not really a bad guy despite the hyperventilating.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2021 16:58 utc | 67

arby @64

A few years back I returned to the US after many years abroad to spend some time with family and old friends and take care of some academic stuff. The stay was only supposed to be for about a year then I would be back to China. Unfortunately, while tooling around on my bike and checking out how things had changed since I was last in the States I was run over by an idiot who did an unsignaled left turn straight into me. Though I don't remember the gory parts, there were tire tracks across the chest and legs of my motorcycle armor.

That armor probably saved my life, but it was a couple years before I could walk again and my savings were wiped out. No more carefree globe trotting for me, at least not yet. With that said I still do plan to move back to China if I can get myself back on an even keel physically and financially, though I am running out of time (nobody lives forever). In retrospect I should have never returned to the US and if I could do it all over again I would have stayed far away.

Yeah, China is really where you want to be right now if you are in a position to choose. Opportunities abound there and it has the most awesomely optimistic societal atmosphere. China has exciting cities and beautiful countryside. That countryside is being depopulated as people move into cities, leaving behind lots of chances for quiet and contemplative rural hikes and stunningly scenic bike touring. Despite the relative depopulation of the countryside there are eateries and teahouses everywhere, each with some kind of delicious specialty. China is just a great place to be right now.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2021 17:43 utc | 68

@ James C | Oct 17 2021 16:03 utc | 63... thanks for clarifying that James C! see @ 37 bevin gets it.. with @36 jen - it was an innocent mistake... with @ william gruff - i think william has a valid point on being on the look out for trolls, but i didn't read the comment @ 33 as the same person as pppp fwiw, or trollish.. i thought the comment was valid!

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2021 18:16 utc | 69

James C @ 63:

Thanks for clearing up the confusion.
I apologise for suggesting you and pppp were part of a call-centre tag team.

Troll tag team members sometimes contradict one another on particular details to make themselves look as if they're having a legitimate argument. You did appear to agree with pppp about Lukashenko's "minions" when no-one has hard evidence that his govt made up the bomb threat.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 17 2021 19:31 utc | 70

In addition to William Gruff's @57, it's extremely important for all Earthlings to know that what the Outlaw US Empire has done globally since WW2's end is in pursuit of policy goals--yes, Truman's guys planned to deliberately violate the UN Charter--FDR's brainchild--and US Constitution--the Nation's Holy Grail. The policy goal was to ensure the Outlaw US Empire continued to absorb 60%+ of global resources so it would remain forever dominant by maintaining its Primacy; and to do that meant meddling in many nations internal affairs--a gross violation of the UN Charter and thus the US Constitution. Chomsky called it For Reasons of State and made those words the title for one of his books. Furthermore, all means were and remain justified in pursuit of that policy end. Hitler planned to eliminate all the Jews and Slavs; Truman and company planned to dominate the planet while attempting to eradicate Communists, Nationalists, or any other political faction that got in their way--foreign or domestic.

If my historical enquiries uncovered different evidence that the above isn't the case, then I'd be arguing just as hard for that premise. Sadly, the facts tell the story, and they're bloody awful if the image of yourself is of a loyal American citizen, which I actually remain--I'm merely loyal to what our nation's supposed to be, not what it's become.

Yes, I agree that a great deal wasn't at all well within the USA prior to WW2. FDR and many New Dealers had a vision of what the USA could become, but that died, not when FDR did, but when Truman was added to the 1944 election ticket, while Henry Wallace was demoted, and in late 1946 exiled from the government and the D Party. Why would FDR work so hard to get the UN Charter agreed to via consensus, then turn around and destroy his creation while making the nation a global pariah? As proven with the attempted Businessmen's Coup in 1933-4, a potent 5th Column lurked that Wallace wrote an op/ed about in the NY Times--"The Danger of American Fascism"--and that's what we've had since: subtle at first, then once the CIA was born in 1947 and the Dulles Brothers were placed in control, it's proceeded to tighten its grip ever since.

Fascism has yet to be defeated at the ballot box; it's only been defeated by war. Lets hope there's a first time for everything in this case and that American Fascism gets defeated by the combination of internal collapse and the resulting revolt.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2021 21:34 utc | 71

@68 William Gruff

Thank you for the candor. I had often, personally, wondered about you, personally. I appreciate that story. It was not wasted.

China is a great place to be right now. You know it from experience and I believe it from the evidence, which I would like to turn into experience, and may.

People who ask why one doesn't simply move to another country are beyond stupid if real and beyond cruel if unreal.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 17 2021 23:28 utc | 72

wg@68, i also have often been drawn to your comments & perspective. thank you. when you shared the countryside of china, i revisited yangzhou, just as the border had opened & loving it. your words were a balm, for while i've watched china reclaim her rightful path, i've known, as i did when i visited her & envisioned the sea of cycles transforming to automobiles as obviously they would, that i was fortunate to see her before the inevitable leap & transformation. thanks to you, i shall contemplate a return, through the cities, unavoidable, enroute to the countryside & yangzhou's bamboo forests & unimaginably magnificent cliffs. years ago i wrote about mao, which o/c involved studying him/the journey, those years of study have reaped rewards when reading/shifting through the dross of western think tank imaginings about korea, russia, the bri & what china reveres & how she can achieve her goals. thank you for your invaluable share.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Oct 18 2021 1:26 utc | 73

Jen #70 thank you, as far as ‘minions’ I started with a quote of his comment which I included facetiously.
William Gruff #67 No I totally agree that pppp was spouting NATO propaganda, even worse he made up stuff the MSM didn’t even say like that there was literally a bomb on board. He accused B and others who debunked this story and commented here of being brainwashed by Russian propaganda so I asked him to list one site or source of Russian propaganda because I don’t know of any except RT and Sputnik.

Posted by: James C | Oct 18 2021 21:23 utc | 74

Just a fun side note: I live in New York City and PPPP is a rather large graffiti crew here that stands for Pure Peter Pan Posse or something like that...LOL

Posted by: James C | Oct 18 2021 21:26 utc | 75

The 'west' ignored that reality and went with the fake 'state sponsored hijacking' story the exiled opposition tried to sell.

So they just reacted to a real third-party bomb threat and just happened to luckily find a man that they really, really wanted and who was highly critical of the goverment on the flight? How lucky and not at all planned of them.

There are a number of people in the Middle East who would like to live as well pampered 'refugees' with the European Union.

Putting refugees in paranthesis is very telling. It's surely not people who are fleeing from civil war, persecution and no-future, right? Who put their lives at risk in the hope for a better and more secure future. No, it's people who want the be "pampered". How callous, ignorant and inhuman of you. Seems like there's no difference between you and all the other racists using the exact same talking points.


This blog used to have interesting articles but now it's just pushing conspiracy theories that make absolutely no sense and peddling in right wing propaganda. Very sad.

Posted by: ex-b | Oct 21 2021 12:28 utc | 76

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