Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 30, 2021

Biden Rejects Claims That He Wants To Return To The Nuclear Deal With Iran

The Biden administration is not willing to return to the original nuclear deal with Iran. It wants a much different deal that it can then use to further pressure Iran into more, unrelated concessions. That strategy will fail.

Iran knows that the U.S. is not serious about returning to the JCPOA.

These few headlines are sufficient to explain that:

Urges to show 'good faith' ...

> The United States on Friday hit Iran with a fresh set of sanctions as President Joe Biden prepares for a key weekend meeting with European leaders to discuss the possible resumption of nuclear talks with the Islamic Republic.

The Treasury Department announced the new penalties against two senior members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps and two affiliated companies for supplying lethal drones and related material to insurgent groups in Iraq, Lebanon and Yemen and to Ethiopia, which has been fighting rival Tigray forces for almost a year.
...
Friday's sanctions block any assets that those targeted may have in U.S. jurisdictions, bar Americans from transactions with them and, perhaps more importantly, also subject foreign people and firms that do business with them to potential penalties.
...
The two firms, the Kimia Part Sivan Co. and the Oje Parvaz Mado Nafar Co., along with the latter's managing director, were sanctioned for supplying engines and technical assistance to the drone programs, Treasury said. <

The new sanctions will of course make the negotiations even more difficult if not impossible. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the Biden administration is not really interested in closing a deal. It has however no alternative if it wants to at least somewhat limit Iran's nuclear program. A war against Iran would end with a defeat of the U.S. and its allies in the Middle East.

Posted by b on October 30, 2021 at 16:07 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Well, gee. Since the only deal possible is simple return to the JCPOA as written, of course Biden doesn't want a deal. The whole idea of a negotiation is ludicrous. There is nothing to negotiate and you can't negotiate with someone who won't keep his word.

Posted by: Michael Doliner | Oct 30 2021 16:16 utc | 1

Many commentators talk about how the US will loose or can't win a war here and there or most anywhere. I, by and large, agree except for nuclear weapons. What war, Taiwan, Iran, DPRK would not go nuclear almost immediately? If there was conflict over Taiwan and the Chinese sunk one or more US or allied aircraft carriers causing thousands of deaths and the loss of 10 billion dollar ships would not the US respond with nuclear weapons? I would say the chances are very high.

Further, should the Western empire decide to use its nuclear weapons they will go all out and risk nuclear winter for a final victory. These are the same people who destroyed hundreds of thousands of innocent lives by using nuclear weapons on two cities and there is no reason to believe they would not use them again.

The greatest threat to the human civilizations of this world is the use of nuclear weapons by the criminals of the West. The job of the rest of humanity, the great Indian civilization, the great Asian/Chinese civilization and an uprising in the Western civilization to defeat the Western empire while keeping them from destroying the earth and spoil it if they can't own it.

Posted by: Babyl-on | Oct 30 2021 16:30 utc | 2

It will take a long time for the US to get over their "unipolar moment", in the meantime they will act like fools who do not understand the new reality - which they will be dragged kicking and screaming towards. The Anglo elite will find it so hard to have to treat Persians, Chinese and Russians with respect; and perhaps learn a thing or two from.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 30 2021 16:35 utc | 3

It reminds me of a con-man trying to work a mark.

Iran just said it will return to negotiations, so this is probably intended to prevent that.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 30 2021 16:40 utc | 4

from Tehran Times

. . .As things stand, Iran and the 4+1 group of countries are likely to sit at the negotiating table again in the coming weeks. But this doesn’t mean that resuming the talks is a silver bullet. Quite the opposite, Europe and the United States will likely discover that Washington’s unwillingness to remove the sanctions and its insistence on “lengthening” the JCPOA has made it even more difficult to revive a deal increasingly losing its relevance to Iran and its economy. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2021 16:41 utc | 5

Biden's just like the neighborhood bully who says: "Kiss my but, and I promise to not fart on You." Not knowing that in the Iran-Iraq area, farting in public is the ultimate no-no.
Harun al-Rashid had a vizier who farted in that kings counsel of State. He had to leave the realm. Many years later, he tried to return to Baghdâd. Crossing the Euprates or Tigris in a small boat, he asked the young botssman whether he was shure of his own age. "Of course", answered the youngster: "I was borne the year the the vizier farted in fornt of Harun al-Rashid: Everyone know when that happened".
Much chagrined, the vizier went back into his life in exile.
It's not at all certain Biden will have a home in the US of North A to return to some fifteen years from now!

Posted by: Tollef Ås/秋涛乐/טלפ וש | Oct 30 2021 16:47 utc | 6

like every other barfly, i find american foreign policy mystifying. china plays win win, & easily makes friends & allies, as peace & prosperity sing to those many nations that have been u$rael's slaves, while russia mentors moderation, reason, respect & honest debate. yet america rather than accept the golden appeal of these approaches continues to play the sanctions game, convinced starving the coveted nation will result in its complete submission, its tortured signature to give over its treasure, after all it is the king's right, & winner take all. the nation is subsumed with self hatred, democrats against republicans, each unable to give ground, listen or to join hands in hope of stopping the whirl pooling spiral & return the nation's soul around & upward.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Oct 30 2021 16:58 utc | 7

Biden Rejects Claims That He Wants To Return To The Nuclear Deal With Iran.

Attempting to control the narrative in advance is a popular resort often visited by opponents.

Some resort "Its my party" when not sent an invitation.

It appears that Mr. Biden is still immersed in the my schlong is bigger than your schlong school of thermo-dynamics though.

Posted by: MagdaTam | Oct 30 2021 17:10 utc | 8

“ it might seem much smarter, at this point, to release Assange. “

It is wise to use conditional tenses not limited to issues perceived by some as requiring a crystal ball.

Instead of relying upon crystal balls or even curved balls, some who recognise that omniscience is not an option engage in lateral analyses to inform and implement lateral strategies whose vectors are based on the opponents vulnerabilities which in part are derived from opponents' immersion in specific social relations and monitored through their trajectories.

As you are aware the continuing demystification of the oxymoron “representative democracy” is a significant purpose for some opponents, but it is not necessarily assigned the same significance by all opponents, as functions of their immersion in specific social relations.

These social relations are competitive encouraging aversions to doing nothing, sometimes labelled as can-doism; a seeking of attribution and contingent recognition of sole or primary agency – Mr. G.W.Bush's notion that he was the decider being one example of many – and parallel resort to assign blame to the other/not me, plus reflexive vindictiveness when frustrated.

In conjuction with other perceptions derived from such social relations enhances probabilities of hightened predeliction to opening Pandora's boxes whilst relying on derivatives of the Alexandrine options in respect of apparent “Gordian knots”, sometimes rendered more piquant through emulation of Mr. Stalin's illusion of “No man – no problem”.

Additionally these social relations do not act in a vacuum, although ideologies derived from these social relation seek to deny that to be the case – exceptional and indispensable nation refer – comfort blankets when its cold outside.

As Mr. Heraclitus and others observed you can't step into the same river twice {since it is not the same river – you can't even do it once and reliance on precedents is a practice of self-obfuscation as Mr. Heraclitus also understood} ergo the opportunity not to pursue Mr. Assaange has past, Pandora's box has been opened and time and tide wait for no man.

The opponents tend to regularly facilitate such surprises/unforseen consequences not restricted to Mr. Assange, and consequently regularly become enmeshed in nets where wriggling in the hope of disentanglement facilitates increased entanglement.

Posted by: MagdaTam | Oct 30 2021 17:11 utc | 9

thanks b... more of the same b.s... i agree with @3 roger and @ 3 bemildred....

i guess this western elite running things think that people are stupid... unfortunately for them, many people are quite smart and immediately see thru this b.s.

Posted by: james | Oct 30 2021 17:38 utc | 10

The good cop, bad cop routine played by the EU and the US has also gotten old and been exposed. Iran now knows there is no independent Europe, at least as far as Iran issues are concerned. The relevant parties are Iran and the US and Russia and China. And Iran has finally realized that nothing but surrender is acceptable by the US.

So, as Iran is not interested in surrendering, what's left to negotiate?

Posted by: Caliman | Oct 30 2021 17:44 utc | 11

At the rate the U.S. is going it may soon be mired in an economic, supply chain, and probably political crisis and may decide to take a break from its aggressions of choice against Iran and other countries.

Posted by: Edward | Oct 30 2021 17:45 utc | 12

Thanks b. The US slaps new sanctions on Iran and wants a new JCPOA where Iran must make concessions on its ballistic missiles. This is never going to happen no matter how much the US tries, through coercion, to make it so. Biden and his administration are completely disingenuous.

Posted by: Michael Crockett | Oct 30 2021 17:54 utc | 13

Apparently the visits by key war criminals of the Zionist occupation regime in Palestine had the desired effect. Biden, or whoever is really running US foreign policy, is not even pretending to want to return to the JCPOA - one of his many unfulfilled campaign promises. Must we wait for the European puppet governments to wake up and realize their are being devastated by their fealty to the US Empire? Lord knows people in the US (even the very, very few who have a clue about what's really going on) are not going to be given an option.

We no longer have anything resemble a democracy here. The President and the Congress are merely actors in an elaborate theatrical performance designed to feign democratic processes while carrying out the orders of the oligarchy. That's why the US is not agreement capable, and no nation with any self-respect should engage with us at all.

Posted by: Charles D | Oct 30 2021 18:11 utc | 14

About this whole sanctions thing - why any two nations would still conduct their mutual transactions in Yankee dollars mystifies me.

Posted by: Hal Duell | Oct 30 2021 18:15 utc | 15

" It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the Biden administration is not really interested in closing a deal. It has however no alternative if it wants to at least somewhat limit Iran's nuclear program. A war against Iran would end with a defeat of the U.S. and its allies in the Middle East."

My conclusion is that Biden and the West are not worried about Iran getting nuclear weapons. Number one, Iran is under pressure from China and Russia to avoid going too far. Number two, how do you use nuclear weapons, what is your day after? However, conventional missiles with capacity of destroying or bloodily damaging American military bases are a worry. Is there ANY perspective of convincing Iran to give them up? And as we are at it, give up all weapons using explosives, starting from gunpowder, effectively going back to XIII century on military matters?

Thus the only policy that actually serves American objectives is to hinder Iranian economy in any way possible. And that applies to Nicaragua too, and what kind of threat is there? You are a bad dog, we will kick you as much as we can.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 30 2021 18:20 utc | 16

The good cop, bad cop routine played by the EU and the US has also gotten old and been exposed.

Posted by: Caliman | Oct 30 2021 17:44 utc | 10

This is a different routine: a bad cop and lazy cops. A drunk lies on a sidewalk, sleeping. A bad cop starts pummeling and kicking him. The lazy cops watch, or they join the fun, but not too much.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 30 2021 18:24 utc | 17

"A war against Iran would end with a defeat of the U.S. and its allies in the Middle East."

Wrong. It would end in the defeat of both parties. But which party would suffer catastrophic defeat? Certainly not those with shores thousands of miles away. Israel would be a toss up. But whose energy security would be most threatened? Surely, the real aim of any such adventure...

If your goal is to smash things, you don't have to play to win...

Posted by: MapleLeaf | Oct 30 2021 18:27 utc | 18

Any idea if the new Sanctions were vetted with White House & State Dept before Treasury Dept announced them yesterday?

A bunch of Neo-Cons burrowed into Treasury Dept when Obama took over (moved from political positions to career "civil service" positions, to avoid getting laid off when Dems took over), and they've been carrying on the Cheney Regime's vendetta against Iran ever since. I suspect that the real intent of yesterday's announcement was to undermine Biden's negotiations with Europe. If the new sanctions were approved by WH & State before being announced, I'm wrong.

In any case, Dems need to clean the NeoCon moles out of the Treasury Dept.

Posted by: elkern | Oct 30 2021 18:44 utc | 19

Yessir:

Nuclear talks with Iran to resume, Biden says after meeting with allies

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 30 2021 18:52 utc | 20

I'm shocked, shocked that the US is недоговороспособны (not-agreement-capable)!!!!

Posted by: Perimetr | Oct 30 2021 18:57 utc | 21

At the rate the U.S. is going it may soon be mired in an economic, supply chain, and probably political crisis and may decide to take a break from its aggressions of choice against Iran and other countries.

From Naked Capitalism:

I have a feeling we are in for far more serious “troubles” in the medical realm than just nurses in the hospital quitting. Pharma issues are happening – and may reach out and touch any one of you or your family. To be warned is to be prepared.
My friends with the core facility that has multiple freezers heard from the hospital’s procurement folks who had tracked down the Airgas manager. “He said there is no shortage of product(LN2) but a shortage of drivers for bulk tank deliveries.”

IM Doc’s reply:

I am in a remote area – that is certainly part of the problem. But the fact we are having these troubles with vital supplies even here should be an early warning indicator that we have issues as a society. The system has thrown a rod – and what used to be reliable no longer is. Fascinating times.

Our supplier is trying very hard to get the now very elevated cost of the transport of these gases passed onto the final user – and there is just no way that is economically feasible in our area. And then another wrinkle at least here is the actual company that puts it in the cans is having trouble getting the equipment and other needs transported to their facility. “We have not had the ability in about a month”. So they do not even have product to send. So we have supply chain problems – and we have delivery chain problems. It seems like everything has a screw loose right now. I do also have multiple patients who are now on emergency oxygen compressors – because the cans of oxygen are no longer available reliably in our area – and I have just not had the time to figure out why that is suddenly happening. The compressor approach is much more expensive and I have no idea how long the insurance companies are going to be willing to pay.

A very pernicious problem with pharma shortages has begun to set in. For the most part, they seem to be temporary – but they are absolutely devastating to patients financially – and I want all to understand what is going on.

This mainly seems to be happening in insulin products, immunologic agents ( as in Enbrel and Humira) and chemotherapy ( of which I personally deal very infrequently).

I am now up to 11 patients where this has happened just this week alone. All of whom are under 30, diabetic and on insulin or with lupus and on immunomodulating drugs. All are taking their health very seriously.

Most modern pharmaceuticals are distributed with the use of PBMs. big gigantic companies that are middlemen between pharma and consumers. They all have contracts with each product where they get a very good price on 1 particular agent in each class. For example – XYZ PBM has a great price on Lantus Insulin – so they will only distribute Lantus to their patients. If you must have the others – well – you get to pay the 700 dollars a month out of pocket – uncovered by your insurance. It is really quite a racket if some poor soul cannot tolerate the selected drug.

We are now experiencing fairly severe shortages on insulin products and immunoproducts. Again – they seem to be temporary – but 10 days is life or death to a Type I DM. So when their refill comes up – and their particular PBM contracted insulin type is unavailable – they get to pay full freight on another in the class – often 500-700 dollars a month. The PBMs are absolutely heartless – will not budge an inch – knowing in full that the shortage is beyond the patient’s control – and also that they are completely dependent. So the patients pay the 500 dollars for an alternative – only to find out that 7 days later – their “covered” insulin is available again. But it may not be when it comes time for a refill. And because their “great” insurance (It’s a big f@#ckin’ deal! – remember that?) that Obamacare delivered to the land has often 10 or 15 thousand dollar deductibles – they get to pay the full amount.

I have no idea why these shortages are happening. It is however constant. Again – not just insulin – the arthritis drugs are a real problem as well. My office staff is spending large chunks of time on this. Nothing like this has happened before in my career. This is new territory.

Collapse of the Supply Chain(s) in the US is HERE AND NOW!

INDY

Posted by: George W Oprisko | Oct 30 2021 19:16 utc | 22

George Oprisko @21:

It's not just in rural areas, and not just in med. supply sector. It's in just about every sector and everywhere. Brand new durable appliance delivered and wouldn't work, twice in a row. And that's happened to me in a city of over nearly 1 million population.

Looks like we are already sunk. As you said, what used to be reliable no longer is. Interesting times indeed.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 30 2021 19:29 utc | 23

What value would a renewal of the JPCOA in some form have for Iran, if the next US President is Trump or some brick head neocon who will cancel the treaty? The US has established that it is not a reliable partner in any negotiations.

Posted by: Rob | Oct 30 2021 19:31 utc | 24

@MapelLeaf (17) In the event of a regional war in the Middle East, Israel will suffer devastating consequences from the combined forces of Iran, Syria and Hezbollah. Israel knows this, which is why they continuously urge the US to be responsible for carrying out a strike against Iran. Are the Israeli's prepared to accept the consequences of having their own cities bombarded by rockets and drones that their vaunted air defenses will not be able to intercept? Somehow, I think not, but there are definitely fanatics and lunatics in positions of power who might not care about consequences.

Posted by: Rob | Oct 30 2021 19:51 utc | 25

@ Rob | Oct 30 2021 19:31 utc | 23 who wrote
"
The US has established that it is not a reliable partner in any negotiations.
"

We are seeing the negotiations done by the front for empire at the time, Nixon in 1971, being abrogated in front of our eyes. Empire has had 50 years to corrupt China and is evidently failing to do so. So here we are in a civilization war to see if humanity evolves beyond economic barbarism and its inherent class based society or we extinct ourselves like a good cosmological failure.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 30 2021 19:53 utc | 26

Tightening the noose.

It's not meant to end in peace, surely.

Hands up those who think Israel will end up nuking Iran.

Posted by: Keith Granger | Oct 30 2021 20:00 utc | 27

Keith Granger @26--

The outcome for Occupied Palestine to nuke Iran would be as if it nuked itself. Several years ago, Russia's national security chief met with Pompeo and Nuttyahoo to tell them that Russia had Iran's back when it came to using nukes against it, a statement that made the news most everywhere; I posted the article and related information here myself at the time. Lots of bandwidth's been expended here in our ongoing discussion of the overall situation in Southwest Asia that goes back to this blog's beginnings. Trump came closest to initiating a war with Iran, but he backed down for very sensible reasons. Those reasons still apply, plus Iran continues to bolster its own and its allies defenses, which is several cases include their offensive capabilities.

The current goal of the Outlaw US Empire is to deter any regional collective security pact, which would see it lose most of what remains of its ability to influence events there along with the rationale for its many bases. The small crisis between Lebanon and those waging the illegal war against Yemen is part of the entire equation--all the man did was to tell the truth about the war against Yemen which infuriated those conducting that war.

It'll take another generation for the region to come to terms with itself as the geopolitical situation finally swings in its favor, for everyone there wants peace and development. The only impediment is the Outlaw US Empire which is against those two developments regionally and globally. But as it goes deeper into the toilet bowl, its ability to thwart those twin goals will weaken until it finally disappears.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 30 2021 20:35 utc | 28

Posted by: Rob | Oct 30 2021 19:51 utc | 24

... In the event of a regional war in the Middle East, Israel will suffer devastating consequences from the combined forces of Iran, Syria and Hezbollah. Israel knows this, which is why they continuously urge the US to be responsible for carrying out a strike against Iran...

Apparently Israel doesn't know this yet because its last attack on Syria was this morning. A volley of missiles fired at a Damascus suburb. Oh well. RIP Israel, right?

Posted by: robin | Oct 30 2021 20:38 utc | 29

Posted by: Keith Granger | Oct 30 2021 20:00 utc | 26

And thence comes the Rapture, as Israel is turned into a piece of burnt toast in response. Not even the Israeli's are stupid and arrogant enough to do that.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 30 2021 20:40 utc | 30

@Posted by: robin | Oct 30 2021 20:38 utc | 28

Throwing a few stones at the weak boy in the neighbourhood is very different to starting a war.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 30 2021 20:42 utc | 31

question to MoA: How would Russia react to an Israeli nuclear attack on Iran?

Posted by: Perimetr | Oct 30 2021 21:24 utc | 32

@ perimetr... its a good question given the non reaction on the missiles into syria on an ongoing basis... on the other hand we know how the usa would react if iran was to make an attack on israel! there are certain knowns and other unknowns here... if you listen to our local hoyeru, he will probably say russia isn't going to do jackshit... my own feeling is russia wouldn't act right away, but their would be something very negative to come out of this for israel... just my take...

Posted by: james | Oct 30 2021 21:34 utc | 33

I would bet Iran already has a few dozen nuclear weapons, and have had them for a couple decades.

Technically and materially Iran had had the ability to produce nuclear weapons since the late 90's. Their science base is more advanced than Pakistan and is on par with India and North Korea.

The only reason Iran wouldn't have them is the Fatwa that was issued and a couple other statements made by Iranian officials right before they would have been finishing the first bomb in the late 1990's. Like Israel's strategy earlier, this was done to create plausible deniability while the process was completed and reliable delivery mechanisms, which lag behind nuclear development by 10-15 years, we're finished.

If Iran is true to their Fatwa, they will never develope nuclear weapons...if not they have quite a few already. I suspect the latter, as does a small but significant portion of the intelligence community.

Given Iran's geography, and the massive underground infrastructure they have created, Iran will survive the nuclear exchange, Israel won't. Probably won't matter, though, as the odds of any nuclear exchange triggering a global extinction nuclear exchange are pretty high.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 30 2021 21:49 utc | 34

The US-Iran imbroglio is similar (not the same) to the US-NorthKorea situation. We'll leave the sanctions in place and treat you as a subordinate while we work on the project to reduce your sovereignty and your defense capability even further, 'cuz the US rules the world dont'cha know. . . But Iran and DPRK don't buy it. Good for them. It also sends a lesson to other countries, even the biggies like China and Russia. . .Yes, you can defy the US and improve yourselves.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2021 21:50 utc | 35

@ Posted by: Perimetr | Oct 30 2021 21:24 utc | 31

Nothing. Israel wouldn't exist anymore.

Posted by: vk | Oct 30 2021 22:10 utc | 36

On barjam/JCPOA
I used to, back when it was signed, think that: Wow, Iran, way to go. You accomplished in DC, without any representation, what the mighty AIPAC, and it’s hordes, couldn’t, in trying to crush it. They even sent Nutty to congress, without the POTUS’ knowledge, to tell everyone what a bad idea it was.

Wow I thought.

Now, having studied it, for a few years, I can see, that Iran lost much of its sovereignty just by signing it. How times change. As Don Bacon’s post from Tehran Times notes, the deal is increasingly losing it’s relevance to Iran. Now a SCO member and all. In the meantime, the EU maintained and even accelerated its irrelevance.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Oct 30 2021 22:18 utc | 37

India got booted from participating in Iran's port development, since it dragged its feet for so long, acting as a comprador for the US.

but it is actually in India's interests that Iran not only remains stable, but also becomes a prosperous hub connected to west Asia, Russia and Europe. India's interests towards Iran and Afghanistan simply don't align with the US agenda. let's see how long the so called Quad lasts.

but the foreign policy establishment in India is challenged; they have bad relations with nearly all of its neighbors. they seem as capable of diplomacy as the Americans. perfect quad partnersn in a way.

Posted by: mastameta | Oct 30 2021 22:29 utc | 38

On Iranian economy
It is unknowable.
The effects of hawala cover is just too great to know. Also, much of the activities of the so called Bonyads are not reported. All this, while Iran has much of it’s money locked up in foreign accounts.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Oct 30 2021 22:36 utc | 39

On ‘war on Iran’
I’ll just leave that one to the ‘war on Iran’ trolls to stir up, yet again.
I’ve said enough on this. See previous threads.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Oct 30 2021 22:41 utc | 40

Iran never left the JCPOA as far as I know...So, would someone ask the US why it wants Iran to "rejoin" it?

Posted by: donten | Oct 30 2021 22:46 utc | 41

And thence comes the Rapture, as Israel is turned into a piece of burnt toast in response. Not even the Israeli's are stupid and arrogant enough to do that.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 30 2021 20:40 utc | 29

If the 6 million jews in Israel were "turned into a piece of burnt toast" then that would be a real holocaust.

Posted by: tucenz | Oct 30 2021 22:59 utc | 42

@donten 40
Iran never left the JCPOA as far as I know

Yes, correct, here's the whole JCPOA history, including:

Iran began to incrementally violate the agreement in May 2019. Tehran tied its decision to breach the JCPOA’s limits to the deal’s failure to deliver sanctions relief envisioned by the accord and, implicitly, U.S. withdrawal from the deal. Iran is still a JCPOA participant and says it will return to compliance with the accord if its demands on sanctions relief are met.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2021 23:31 utc | 44

The US controls the Mighty Wurlitzer of propaganda and they create their own reality, In 2007, the spy agencies shut down Cheney's attempt to stop Iran from getting a nuclear bomb in 5 years (as the US had been proclaiming since 1979.) They put out an assessment saying that Iran had no nuclear program. Admiral Fallon said in public that there would be no war with Iran on his watch.
Whoa! What a slapdown that was!
And yet, the next year, when Obama was elected, they started right back in on the propaganda as if the slapdown had never happened
I still wonder what that was about
Anyway, Iran still had no nuclear program, but they had to plead out, like an accused person in the US, to avoid a harsher sentence, and they signed the deal, which was hailed in the Mighty Wurlitzer as a major victory for St. Barack.
I have a friend in the UAE who insists that a lot of what we see happening in the Middle East has to do with stopping OBOR. I see Ethopia on the list of countries Iran is supposed to avoid.
Ethiopia is down with the Silk Road, Eritrea is not. The Tigray tribe seems to be heavily represented in Eritrea. I'm wondering who is supporting the "rebels".

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 30 2021 23:31 utc | 45

that is like saying - tommy isn't wearing his blue jeans... we're concerned that he isn't fitting in!! "countries as juveniles"... that would probably be a better title for your link perimetr! of course i haven't and won't be reading it... too much stupidity in the press these days... i liked a link bevin shared in another thread however.. i will recommend it @ 94 in the thread on poland for anyone interested.. it essentially sums up how we are at a similar juncture here with these western poodles and sychophants clamoring for our ''grave concern''... what a load of bollocks... can't read it.. the headline gives it away! the grave concern is they have renounced their responsibilities and have taken to scare mongering as art...

Posted by: james | Oct 30 2021 23:34 utc | 46

@ Perimetr | Oct 30 2021 23:05 utc | 42 with the link to the absurd joint statement by the puppet nations of empire at the G20

Lets see....Hmmmm Aren't there 20 nations in the G20? How come there are only 4 nations coming out with this BS screed about Iran? And why at the G20 other than to give themselves credence they would not have otherwise.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 30 2021 23:34 utc | 47

@ Perimetr 42
That BS statement from the US and its Europe lackeys will, I expect, really piss off Tehran, as it should, since it's a huge untrue fabrication of the situation.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2021 23:35 utc | 48

Oct 6, 2013
Iran’s Leader “Optimistic” about Rowhani’s US Diplomacy, but Skeptical of Washington, Israel

Khamenei
"Certainly, we are pessimistic about the Americans. We do not trust them. We consider the government of the United States of America as an unreliable, arrogant, illogical, and trespassing government, which is badly possessed and dominated by the international Zionist network. They are forced to appease the extorter and forged regime that has occupied Palestine to observe the illegitimate desires and interests of the international Zionist network. They ought to be flexible against it for the interests of the international Zionist network."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2021 23:38 utc | 49

Oh let's see. 'Pseudoisrael' wages war on Iran (for no particular actual reason). The actual 'Israelians' are bit actors (uninformed crisis actors on a mass scale). They assault Iran. The Hezbollah ("Party of God") launches a thousand missiles at the 'Pseudoisrael' fake 'homeland'. Several strike the Pseudoisrael's Demona nuclear facility. Resulting in a Middle East Fukushima.

This narrative may well be set to go live.

Posted by: blues | Oct 30 2021 23:51 utc | 50

Perimetr @31--

question to MoA: How would Russia react to an Israeli nuclear attack on Iran?

I spent some time to find the last thread on that topic. It's here, followed by 333 comments, several of which deal with Patrushev's June 24, 2019 visit to Jerusalem for a chat with Bolton and Nuttyahoo. Linked is the translation of that crucial visit. You'll find lots of commentary on that topic. So, please do pour a beverage and take in what you missed from before. There's nothing similar to NATO's Article 5 in the SCO, but the MoA consensus two years ago was that Russia has Iran's back when it comes to being attacked with nuclear weapons.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 30 2021 23:55 utc | 51

@49.....but not until an Iranian missile lands on a Gay Pride parade in Tel Aviv does anybody take any notice......

Posted by: dh | Oct 30 2021 23:58 utc | 52

About this whole sanctions thing - why any two nations would still conduct their mutual transactions in Yankee dollars mystifies me.

Hal Duell | Oct 30 2021 18:15 utc | 14:

Most nations don't have the ability to defend themselves from US aggression and are unable to get the necessary support from the few nations that can. This is also assuming the wealth of those "elites" controlling those nations do not rely on the USD in some way.


--------

On the question of an Israeli nuclear attack on Iran, it will NOT happen. Both the US and Russia will run interference in some way to prevent such attacks. I would not be surprised if China participates as well. Israel have ZERO chance in pulling it off without support from those three nations.

Posted by: Ian2 | Oct 31 2021 0:05 utc | 53

@ dh...lol... i hope you aren't in attendance!

Posted by: james | Oct 31 2021 0:20 utc | 54

@53 Not me james. I'm 100% heterosexual and not ashamed of it. But the media seems to have strange priorities these days.

Posted by: dh | Oct 31 2021 0:36 utc | 55

ahh, i kind of figured that dh.. just pulling your leg, or lederhosen as the case may be!

Posted by: james | Oct 31 2021 0:49 utc | 56

Thank you james. No sexy shorts for me. I only wear jeans and rugged work shirts from Canadian Tire.

Posted by: dh | Oct 31 2021 1:10 utc | 57

donten @40 Good catch, and absolutely correct. The JCPOA is a lousy deal for Iran anyway, as it still restricts the right that is afforded to every other country on the planet; to develop civilian nuclear energy capabilities.
It's always struck me as ironic that everyone swooned over the "landmark" deal when a few years before, nearly the same deal was arranged by Russia, Turkey, and Brazil. But the US, at the UNSC level harumphed that "the time was not right" for such an arrangement.
If only there were some way of putting the US's nuclear arsenal into some sort of international conservatorship, we might see an end to this often horrible absurdity.

Posted by: robjira | Oct 31 2021 1:31 utc | 58

Posted by: blues | Oct 30 2021 23:51 utc | 49

It is somewhat quaint that blues refers to "Pseudo-Israel". I do not know what is the intention, but there is some genuine issue here. Kingdoms of Judah and Israel were historical, unlike the preceding "united monarchy" of David and Solomon. Judah was a combination of two tribes, Benjamin being a junior partner, and Israel of ten tribes.

As a result, there were two variants of the Mosaic religion, with important distinction being the main sanctuary uniting all believers, Jerusalem Temple for Judah, Mount Gezirim for Israel (near Nablus in the West Bank). At some point, Babylonian kingdom made short work of both.

There is some agreement that inhabitants of Judah spent. a period in "Babylonian exile". But Jewish version is that the 10 tribes of Israel got lost, while Samaritan version is that they survived to form their nation without any kingdom of their own to protect them. Jewish version is that Samaritans are not of Israel blood but people resettled to the area by Babylonians or Assyrians and who adopted the local cult. In any case, Jews, descendants of Judah and Benjamin, have very, very hazy connection to Israel, contrary to the often repeated version of 3 thousand years of history in the area. Basically, by their own standards, Jews should get Jerusalem and Hebron and return everything else. And surely they are not connected, in Biblical terms, to Israel.

Of course, the narrative of Jews is ridiculous, by restoring status quo 2000 years ago, Saxons should go back to Saxony, Angles to Angle (Holstein?) and England should be given to Welch diaspora. Poland should belong to Goths and Vandals. It is hard to find Goths and Vandals, but the Welch are still around.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 31 2021 1:39 utc | 59

re: enrichment

Merkel said she was deeply concerned by Iran's uranium enrichment. "We are counting on a return of Iran to the negotiating table. But the clock is ticking. Uranium enrichment is occurring in Iran and this deeply concerns us," she said in Rome.

The NPT, and its agent IAEA, not only permit nuclear science, they promote nuclear science. A glance at the IAEA facebook and twitter pages reveals many examples of the benefits of nuclear science, which Iran like any country deserves to be a part of.

The IAEA had a sufficient presence in Iran to ensure that no fissionable materials are transferred to any weapons program, should it exist which it doesn't. And the recent US position has been that Iran has the right to enrich, affirmed by the JCPOA agreement and a UN Security Council Resolution. Iran's explicit right to enrich (recently) has been US policy for at least nine years.

Sep 22, 2010 -- Jordan Has Right to Develop, Enrich Uranium Deposits, U.S. Official Says -- Jordan and other countries have the right to develop and enrich their uranium deposits, U.S. Undersecretary for Nuclear Security Thomas D’Agostino said at a press briefing in Vienna.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 31 2021 1:48 utc | 60

@ robjira | Oct 31 2021 1:31 utc | 57 who wrote
"
If only there were some way of putting the US's nuclear arsenal into some sort of international conservatorship, we might see an end to this often horrible absurdity.
"

I and other barflies would posit that China/Russia/Iran/etc have done this but we are looking at a multi-headed beast and bio-chemical warfare has not been entirely stymied and then there is monetary warfare which is ramping up.

Iran is smart enough to know you don't necessarily need things to go boom to advance the use of nuclear science in your country....but if you read the link provided by bevin at #94 in the Poland thread you will get a hint of how much history of many cultures has been lied about by the purveyors of the God of Mammon religion.....look at the current Western negative vomitorium about China......its represents desperation and vacuous human morals writ large to me/

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 31 2021 1:51 utc | 61

B said earlier, The only alternative .. is a large scale war against Iran with the aim to overthrow its government. But such a war can not be waged because it would destroy the Middle East and would push the global economy into a deep recession. In short - war is no alternative.

in that same session

no_really @ 24 posts "internal contradiction" matters. Russia, [is] a historic enemy of Iran " could it be this observation informs the reason Biden refused return to the JCPOA?

Posted by: Rob @29
@no_really (15) war with Iran will most certainly result in a cessation of all petroleum shipments from the Persian Gulf,

Posted by: Lucci @ 44
if completely destroy middle east, oil shipments stop from middle east become too expensive or unreliable who else can supply the vacuum in the market? Venezuela and Russia ? Maybe also China with their Xuar gas deposits now the question is they wouldn't use USD for their sales now wouldn't they? What new leverages and influences would they find once the empire Caligula made the world unsafe and unstable for them ?

posted by no-really @ 48
a fully developing Iran is definitely not something Russia will favor.


<= my point is that Relations with LGN industry nations are far more important than granting Iran any right to compete against Russia American LNG enterprises and as Rob points out, the coming war with Iran will stop petroleum shipments Iran plans through its Goreh-Jask pipeline and I answer the who else question by reference to the LGN enterprise owners.


<= There are no longer powerful US elite remain, all have been promoted to globalist. and they don't give a damn about USA governed America.


now we talk about today's posts.

Posted by: james | Oct 30 2021 17:38 utc | 9
thanks b.. more of same b.s. i agree with @2 roger and @ 3 emildred....

I guess this western elite running things think that people are stupid... unfortunately for them, many people are quite smart and immediately see thru this b.s.

Posted by: Michael Crockett | Oct 30 2021 17:54 utc | 12
The US slaps new sanctions on Iran and wants a new JCPOA where Iran must make concessions on its ballistic missiles

Posted by: MapleLeaf | Oct 30 2021 18:27 utc | 17
A war against Iran would end with a defeat of the U.S. and its allies in the Middle East."

Wrong. It would end in the defeat of both parties.

<=yes but it would make LGN the profit maker of the week..

Posted by: snake | Oct 31 2021 2:15 utc | 62

@58 In fact the Welsh did take over England after the Battle of Bosworth when Henry Tudor defeated Richard 111. But that's all ancient history.

Posted by: dh | Oct 31 2021 2:17 utc | 63

karlof1@50, thank you for taking the time to recover & post that priceless thread. very nice to revisit in today's light.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Oct 31 2021 2:27 utc | 64

with reference to Isaeli attack on Iran because of successful cyber attack click here

anyone heard of the the Black Shadow group?
Israel claims they are Iranian..

Pardon my typo LGN should be LNG.

Posted by: snake | Oct 31 2021 2:28 utc | 65

@ snake 64
We often hear about US/Israel attacks on Iran, but not about Iran reactions. And there is the saying: Iran always gets even. Perhaps counter-attacks don't get reported in the MSM. Don't provide aid & comfort to the enemy!
. . .so in your link we do get some info....
"A 2020 survey showed that Israeli companies paid out over $1 billion to hackers as ransom in 2020, with the 2021 figure expected to increase."

Iran still suffers from many gas stations that can't process sales, and now we have the news on Press TV (they're back!) about cyber-attacks in Israel. We can expect to see this tactic used more and more, probably. And it might happen even when we don't see it.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 31 2021 3:31 utc | 66

"The Threat of War Is the Only Way to Achieve Peace With Iran
Tehran no longer takes Washington seriously. To revive the nuclear deal, the threat of military escalation needs to be on the table."

See the full article is written by Deniss Ross

I wonder how idiot is this policy maker guy  who served Bush, Bill Clinton, Obama and Hillary.

Which  audiences this article is written for? Iranians or Americans?

In coordination of this type of strategic! plan see dispaly now :

" Israeli fighter jets escort American B1-B bomber is show of ‘continued strategic cooperation"

Posted by: arata | Oct 31 2021 4:50 utc | 67

"The Threat of War Is the Only Way to Achieve Peace With Iran
Tehran no longer takes Washington seriously. To revive the nuclear deal, the threat of military escalation needs to be on the table."

See the full article is written by Deniss Ross

I wonder how idiot is this policy maker guy  who served Bush, Bill Clinton, Obama and Hillary.

Which  audiences this article is written for? Iranians or Americans?

In coordination of this type of strategic! plan see dispaly now :

" Israeli fighter jets escort American B1-B bomber is show of ‘continued strategic cooperation"

Posted by: arata | Oct 31 2021 4:50 utc | 68

The recent US sanctions where a reaction to a drone attack on the US base at Al Tanf which Washington attributes to Iran. One could as well headline:

"Iran hits US base with drones ahead of key nuke talks meeting"

Posted by: m | Oct 31 2021 5:00 utc | 69

Well, ain't it too obvious?
Biden met with naphthalene Bennet the day before yesterday where he received his marching orders.

Posted by: Fact sheet | Oct 31 2021 7:36 utc | 70

RE: Posted by: Caliman | Oct 30 2021 17:44 utc | 10

“So, as Iran is not interested in surrendering, what's left to negotiate?”

Notions of purpose frame questions posed.

You are asking the wrong question as a consequence of notions of purpose.

The salient question is who is to negotiate in the ongoing negotiations ?

Answer - the SCO and associates.

Posted by: MagdaTam | Oct 31 2021 8:58 utc | 71

@28 Robin "Apparently Israel doesn't know this yet because its last attack on Syria was this morning. A volley of missiles fired at a Damascus suburb. Oh well. RIP Israel, right?"

It must be quite galling from the Israelis to try so very hard to act like a tough guy, only to find that nobody can even be bothered to pay attention to their limp-wristed girlie-slaps.

Israel: Take *this*, you bastards!
Syria: Did someone just mutter something?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 31 2021 9:59 utc | 72

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 31 2021 9:59 utc | 71

Only in Moon Of Alabama echo-chamber/world is one nation routinely violating the sovereign air space of one to destroy assets in another is "limp-wristed girlie-slaps".

"nobody can even be bothered to pay attention".

Oh yes, it is perfectly OK for your neighbors to routinely shoot missiles into your country. Why "bother" about it?

Those who salivate about a war with Iran (pro or con) are certainly not friends or lovers of Iranians, given that Iran will face a historic destruction possibly eclipsing that caused by the Mongols. (Who gives a fuck whether Zionist die or not or whether client states go up in smoke?

What matters is what happens to the noble Iranians. Something none of you give an f about, no matter how demonstratively you beat your chest about bad "empire". No, this website is a Russian cheerleader site and thus happily ignores the elephants in the room, which include "girlie" slaps.)


---

Found a wonderful site by a historian on Iran.

https://www.the-persians.co.uk/

Start here if you want to understand some of the deep seated collective psychology that informs (a) the irrational hatred of West for Iran, and inductively (b) the insistence of Russians that they are "Europeans" (read: Westerners).
https://www.the-persians.co.uk/xerxes1.htm

Posted by: no_really | Oct 31 2021 12:22 utc | 73

=> Piotr Berman | Oct 31 2021 1:39 utc | 58

I do admire your knowledge of history, although I began to try to forget history long ago, because it's just way too depressing. But thinking on it further, it should have been obvious that folks would contemplate the term 'Pseudoisrael' in historical terms.

Here's how I am coming around to think: In reality, 'Israel' is a total illusion, if conceived of as a government in the business of serving the interests of its citizens. Note that I referred to those putative 'citizens' as: _// The actual 'Israelians' are bit actors (uninformed crisis actors on a mass scale) \\_. They are nothing more than chess pieces being played by Pervasive Shadow Dictatorship (PSD), all within a kind of Disneyland in hell. And the tiny group of oligarchic dictators is comprised of utter total lunatics. So Israel is not a real nation, but merely a sick game. The 'citizens' simply have not been informed of this situation.

Furthermore, this exact same situation exists in the Pseudousa. Perhaps, on some deep level, the 'citizens' actually know about this, even as they travel to the voting places like herded sheep.

The game is not intended to 'make a profit', since they already possess all the significant loot, but rather to continually churn out fake drama ('history') solely for the pleasure of the tiny eleet cabal of dictator/players (think "global coliseum").

Posted by: blues | Oct 31 2021 12:25 utc | 74

Biden counts that the Arab gulf rush to a peace and the pressure exerted on countries like Lebanon and Syria to bow to the US diktat if dumping the Palestinian cause will isolate Iran. Then there is no need for a nuclear deal as Iran will only become just a parasite that the west can deal with without a nuclear deal. Iran repeated that it doesn't seem nuclear weapons. The USA is accepting that but they don't want Iran to bother Israel and interfere against Saudi Arabia's war with Yemen. The USA wants to neutralize Iran.
China and Russia are allies to Iran, therefore destabilizing Iran will hinder Russia and china expansion in the region. Turkey is now working to weaken Iran by playing the Azerbaijan separatist card. Iran is under siege.
Syria and Lebanon are the only countries that are opposed to that scheme and are allied to Iran.This is why their neutralisation is under way using internal tensions and interventions from the USA and turkey.
The war is declared in the region against any resistance to the wave of forcing Arabs to renounce to the Palestinian cause and join the US Money cause. Gulf countries have already joined..
Ideologies other than making money at any cost are dead.

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 31 2021 13:30 utc | 75

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 31 2021 9:59 utc | 72

It must be quite galling from the Israelis to try so very hard to act like a tough guy, only to find that nobody can even be bothered to pay attention to their limp-wristed girlie-slaps.

Obviously I'm no expert. Apologies for failing to distinguish the limp-wristed from the firm.

In any case, I can only concur with your observation. Nobody is paying attention.

Posted by: robin | Oct 31 2021 14:17 utc | 76

karlof1 @ 51, I join emersonreturn at thanking you for your research on the subject of nuclear attack and the delving expertise you concisely report - it may be OT but I have just experienced for myself what such investigations entail even on closer to home issues. If you don't know what you are doing, such attempts exhaust the mind, especially that of the elderly such as myself, if at the same time you wish to maintain some sense of privacy. For sanity's sake it is best to give up, and I take that as one more evidence this country is rapidly deteriorating, both with respect to serving its populace simply and clearly, and on affairs overseas.

To all who don't live here, be very grateful for that fact!

Posted by: juliania | Oct 31 2021 17:44 utc | 77

The US policy is literally controlled by Zionist Jews (a fact which normies believe is 'hate' to notice) who are coordinating with Israel's far right ethnonationalist security state to try to advance the Oded Yinon / Clean Break plans.

Which pairs well with the Kalergi Plan to flood Europe with non-Europeans (and convince normies that the healthy desire to *continue to exist* as a nation is "hate" if that nation has a skin color matching the nazis/amalek.

The de-nazification only ends when all the evil Europeans are gone.
https://www.takimag.com/article/the-miasma-theory-of-white-racism/

Posted by: Jim C. | Nov 2 2021 15:10 utc | 78

Like Trump before him, Biden wants to impede Iran's highly effective missile program. That is already getting most worrisome to US and its allies.

Iran has no desire to engage such "negotiations." The deal was over nukes, and Iran has no nuclear weapons program, and a supreme leader issued Fatwa against it, so that's not happening...until reversed. But no Fatwa against enrichment, which is the most time consuming preparatory phase.

Even if there might be some sort of legitimacy in forcing Iran to curtail nuclear weapons development (mainly it's something that can be sold to US citizens), though this would only really be in the context of a completely nuclear free zone, which the middle east is not, there is no legitimacy whatever in demanding Iran give up missile development. So it's rarely said straight out in public pronouncements, only hinged to the "nuclear deal."

Lack of clear end game hasn't stopped the world's largest weapons manufacturing country yet from launching pointlessly destructive war, though this would be upping the game quite a bit.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Nov 3 2021 6:09 utc | 79

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