Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 06, 2021

Why You Should Get Vaccinated But Don't Need A Third Shot

There were again a number of misleading comments about Covid-19 in yesterday's open thread. I have deleted a dozen or so of those.

It doesn't help that the media are currently back at bad reporting about the various vaccine issues.

Here are some clarifications about the current situation:

Q: Why do people who were vaccinated still get Covid-19?

A: The vaccines are not giving a 'sterilizing immunity'. They were not designed for that and never promised to do so. What the vaccines do in fairy reasonable quality is to prepare the body to fight Covid-19 early and effectively. Nearly all people who got vaccinated will be protected from a severe progression of the disease.

Q: If the vaccine does not protect me from getting Covid-19 why should I still take one?

A: SARS-CoV-2, which causes Convid-19, is a new virus and our bodies are not prepared to fight it. The vaccines, by looking like a part of the virus, are teaching the body to fight the real virus. Once that is done special cells in our bodies will remember that fight. As soon as they detect a real infection they will be ready to attack it.

Q: But would that not also happen if just get infected by SARS-CoV-2 without being vaccinated?

A: Yes it would. But the speed at which the body can fight the virus is much slower in unvaccinated people. Speed is of great importance here. Remember that the Covid-19 disease happens in two phases. The virus first attacks in the upper respiratory tract - the nose and throat. Some seven days or so later it goes down into the lungs. It then can cause a so called cytokine storm during which the body overreacts and attacks itself in multiple organs. To avoid a progression into the second phase of Covid-19 the body must fight the virus as fast as possible.

Q: But the vaccine efficiency is waning over time and they are telling us that we need a third or even a fourth shot.

A: Yes, Pfizer and Co want to sell more vaccines. But for most people a third or fourth shot will not be necessary at all. Let me explain:

The vaccines induce certain cells in our immune system (B- and T-cells) to create specific antibodies (proteins) against the virus and to detect and kill infected cells. After the virus is eliminated from the body there is no need to keep the antibodies around. A few weeks after a vaccination or infection the body slowly discards them. The measurable level of antibodies in the blood decreases. This process, which is normal, has been depicted in the press as 'waning immunity'. But that is pretty much nonsense.

Once a vaccine induced infection is fought off special B- and T-cells will remember the fight and what specific antibodies they had to produce to kill the virus. These memory cells will hibernate in our bodies until they are again needed. As soon as a new infection is detected they wake up and start to produce a huge amount of specific antibodies to (again) fight the virus.

Ask a Biologist has a fine explanation of that process:

Toward the end of each battle to stop an infection, some T-cells and B-cells turn into Memory T-cells and Memory B-cells. As you would expect from their names, these cells remember the virus or bacteria they just fought. These cells live in the body for a long time, even after all the viruses from the first infection have been destroyed. They stay in the ready-mode to quickly recognize and attack any returning viruses or bacteria.

Quickly making lots of antibodies can stop an infection in its tracks. The first time your body fights a virus, it can take up to 15 days to make enough antibodies to get rid of it. With the help of Memory B-cells, the second time your body sees that virus, it can do the same thing in 5 days. It also makes 100 times more antibodies than it did the first time. The faster your body makes antibodies, the quicker the virus can be destroyed. With the help of Memory B-cells, you might get rid of it before you even feel sick. This is called gaining immunity.


Now think of the 'first infection' in the graphic as the vaccination. It has trained the B and T memory cells to fight SARS-CoV-2. Unlike the antibodies the B and T memory cells do not go away. When the next infection comes along the body will be quickly produce new antibodies and wrangle the virus down.

Q: But would not a third or fourth vaccination increase the efficiency with which the body can fight the virus?

A: That probably would happen but the effect would be very marginal. Unless someone is immune-compromised or has some other specific issues it is likely a waste of scarce resources that are better applied elsewhere.

Q: But why has the White House announced a third vaccine shot for everyone?

A: Well, that's actually a scandal the pro-Biden media do not like to talk about.

The White House, which claimed to follow the science, did not follow the science but pharma lobbyists. It announced that everyone would get a third shot before the FDA had collected data on third shots, discussed the issue, and made a decision on it.

Stephen Gowans @GowansStephen - 14:00 UTC · Sep 4, 2021

Here's who it's supposed to work:
FDA recommends -> White House approves -> Big Pharma acts
Here's how it really works:
Big Pharma recommends -> White House approves -> FDA rubber stamps -> Pfizer, Moderna, J&J shareholders (including a hefty part of Biden's cabinet) cash in

The head of the FDA vaccine office and her deputy resigned in protest over the White House announcement as there is not nearly enough data to justify a third vaccine shot. Scientifically there is simply no compelling reason for a third dose. The White House will now have to walk back its statements on the issue.

Q: So there is no reason at all to get re-vaccinated?

A: Currently there is no reason for an additional shot. But the virus is mutating over time and the vaccines we currently have were made to fight the original virus. They are a little less effective against the now predominant delta variant. There will fairly soon be new vaccines that are specifically designed to fight new variants of the virus. People who are in risk groups, the very old and those with diseases that may make a Covid-19 infection more problematic, should probably take those new shots when they become available. For most people they will most likely still be unnecessary.

Q: But what about the reports of vaccinated people in hospitals and ICUs?

A: Those people are probably very old or have significant additional  diseases. The media have overplayed the issue and most reports about severe 'breakthrough' infections are just sensational crap that is not based on actual data. Most people who now end up in the hospitals and ICUs are in fact not vaccinated:

“Most people here are unvaccinated,” says Dr. Ilya Kagan, head of the coronavirus intensive care ward at Beilinson Hospital near Tel Aviv, standing at the bed of a man in his 50s who is sedated and on a ventilator.

If you are vaccinated the chances for you to end up in the ICU is much, much lower than it is for not vaccinated people.

Q: Do you expect to get Covid-19?

A: Yes I do. The virus is now endemic and will likely - over time- infect every human (and many other mammals). But I am now vaccinated and my body has learned and remembers how to fight the virus. It will most likely do that fast enough to prevent extraordinaire damage and a severe disease. After that first infection a second or third will likely happen over the next years and decades. Each one will also reinforce my body's defenses, especially against the then predominant variant.


Q: Why is there currently a shortage of microchips?

A: Bill Gates has bought up all the production facilities to produce the chips he is secretly putting into the Covid-19 vaccines.

Note: I will delete comments on Covid-19 that are just stupid nonsense like that last Q+A. I will also delete links to sensational 'snake oil fights Covid' salesmen or other unscientific crap. Repeated offenders will get banned from this site.

Posted by b on September 6, 2021 at 18:47 UTC | Permalink

« previous page

394 Thanks Grieved.

This thread. A lot of different and strong opinions. Herbal medicine vs scientific medicine. At what point - how much sickness, how many deaths and in what age group or class before we should take action to prevent the spread of infectious disease.

Corrupt governments, medicine for profit. Doctors who's main interest in medicine is the paycheck, privatized research and monopoly.
Scientific research should be and still is to a lessening extent continuation of natural medicine, one that has far greater powers of observation, for whatever it is now, it has saved many lives and given many better lives....

Distrust of corrupt governments again influences the question of at what point do we take action to prevent spread of disease.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 10 2021 2:46 utc | 401

Thanks for all the comments fellow barflies.

Quite the shit show we have going with this Covid thing

Is it man-made or "natural"?

If man-made, is it from Whuan, Ft. Deitrick or ???

Why the Western lack of cooperation about source and treatment?

Why the Western insistence on Emergency Authorization of unproven/sketchy but profitable RNA modifying drugs?

Why the insistence on mandatory "vaccination" with unproven drugs?....Is Biden going to get away with his recent demands?

Why the cover up of Ivermectin/Horse Paste like we are seeing in support of new Big Pharma income stream drugs?

All in all we are seeing massive crimes against humanity and the Pompeo "Lie, cheat and steal..." because we can get away with it attitude that it hitting the great wall of China and its associated axis of countries.

What is it going to take to blow the Covid coverups wide open? I don't know but I don't see the compliance genie going back in the bottle w/o a major multi-nation dust-up/depression/some-new-term

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 10 2021 4:59 utc | 402

@402 Peter AU1 - "at what point do we take action to prevent spread of disease"

For the disease, we already have our miraculous bodies that have defeated it. And our uncensored treatments and preventives that all free people know about by now (30% of the US population - enough to cause a ruckus). If they'd leave us unmolested to do it ourselves, in the open marketplace of ideas, it would all be stopped by now, and normal life would be resuming.

The numbers keep coming, and more of the damage has been done by the "people in charge" than the virus itself. And for that social aggravation, that's where the action awaits.

When they come for us truly, then we take action. Everyone is waiting.

Example: the latest thing from the Biden administration now has Republicans saying, "now is the time...." Freudian slip, or synchronicity with the nation here in the US?

Yes, now is the time for the partisan divide to flex its differences. And still the people wait, to see how the partisan parties will play this, to see if they can actually sort this nonsense out.

I know it's different in Oz, but in the US, we wait for the boot to attempt to make its stamping motion on the face for real - and then we will act in ways that cannot be said here, and that cannot be put in printed words.

People are more angry than they quite know, at this point. Chickenshits, opportunists and poseurs all flaunt their cruelty, thinking it's the new lockdown and they can get away with it. But no one's really pushed yet, not up close and personal. They keep edging closer, but not quite yet to the triggering point.


In the open thread people are begging, please don't talk about COVID, because we're tired of that subject, we get bored easily. I have good news for them. It's not about the virus. We know how to defeat that - just follow the doctors leading that struggle and all will be well. The virus is really not a problem, and yes, now we know what to do, we really can stop talking about it.

It's not about the virus. It's about small people with chicken hearts seizing an opportunity to act big and create a brave new world order. It's about the eternal struggle, writ large.

So maybe this is the end of the line for them. Maybe it's the end of the line for us. Maybe it's the end of the line for no one - maybe we both continue on, and it's just posture and words. But they keep pushing, to test, to find the edge of reality, because reality is something they lost contact with a long time ago.

But if they cross the line...

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 10 2021 5:48 utc | 403

Greived there is nothing miraculous about our bodies. The natural state in very much survival of the fittest. An old aboriginal woman told me a story of one time when she was a girl. He her father and her aunt were running from the white fella's. When her Aunt could go no further, the father knocked her on the head and they kept going. The natural state is a hard life. To us doing something liker that is alien. For them, living off the land over millennia, when an old or sick person could no longer keep up in the constant traveling to find food, there were saved the long death that would occur if they were left behind. The amount of people that died of contagious diseases that sweep through populations periodically, te amount of women that died in childbirth.. ..the amount of people that died of infections before penicillin, there is nothing miraculous about our bodies, only survival of the fittest.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 10 2021 6:07 utc | 404

@405 Peter AU1

Peter. Dear friend. You might as well say there is nothing miraculous about the universe.

I didn't say we were impervious to the virus. I said, or could have said if pushed, that our dead were the price we paid as we learned how to survive. It's the same story as yours. It's the very same story. And if they'd let us run the story, we'd have come to a good end.

You think we "invented" penicillin? You don't think it was lying in wait in the geometry of things for us to "discover" it?

Please don't pick on one turn of phrase of mine to ignore all the others.

Just say whether I'm right or not. And whether the fight is not against the universe but the little people within it who cannot grasp how well we could all be living, if we could be a little humble, and accept the incredible bounty given to us by this mother planet, and stop trying to make other people fit into our small ideas.

I've always counted on you Aussies to be able to laugh at small people. Dammit, you were trained with the English as your example - it doesn't get any smaller than that ;)

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 10 2021 6:31 utc | 405

@405 Peter AU1

But I didn't mean to make light of your story. Now that I made the point I wanted, I can absorb your story. It is some story.

I wouldn't have walked over her story with small things like concepts if I'd have heard it beforehand.

I do think those concepts were in the service of her wishes, that we could find better ways to live, in the midst of the bounty of this world. But even so, I would not have walked on her story. Sorry.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 10 2021 7:00 utc | 406


I consider scientific medicine a continuation of natural or herbal medicine. Natural medicine was based on observation and technology allows us to observe more. Penicillin was observed on a pathogen having landed there by chance.

This internet is a good thing in that it allows us to communicate with anyone around the world but also annoying in that it is easy to take something the wrong way. I am probably.. well not probably just am... bad on that. On this covid thing we are starting from different foundations, each viewing it from a different angle.
Those foundations, I think, are made up of what we have experienced in life combined with our character.
I guess these last posts to you I am mostly looking at this thread and what drives the strong differences of opinion.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 10 2021 8:03 utc | 407


These last few posts to you I have been thinking much about the strong differences opinion on this thread, the difference of opinion on this subject between me an you because although I disagree with you on a few subjects have quite a bit of respect for you because of your decency..not sure what the best term is there but something along those lines. Same goes for a number of others here.
This, what we are seeing happen, the multi-polar world taking shape, with all the differences of opinion that are now in that multi polar world... and that multi-polar world, certainly the vision for it and the practice is visibly rolling back the hegemon... a lot of thoughts here Grieved that I cannot convey.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 10 2021 9:21 utc | 408

Why is covid not a big thing in the “evil axis” countries: syria , yemen, afghanistan, northnkorea, belarus, etc

Posted by: Platero | Sep 10 2021 12:44 utc | 409

jinn @353

Like I said, jinn, you can besmirch me as much as you like about me - I really don't mind. You just draw attention but you haven't anything to say about the sources I linked.

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 10 2021 13:31 utc | 410

Peter AU1 @408

Many of those who are interested in natural health, holistic well-being, herbalists, etc. have, much to their surprise, found themselves opposing the plan-demic and experiencing unexpected hostility. Many fairly benign natural health practitioners have found themselves at the forefront of the opposition to the plan-demic.

The reason for this is the fundamental, irreconcilable difference between Germ Theory and Terrain Theory.

Those interested in natural health are really in the Terrain Theory camp. This holds that germs (i.e bacteria or viruses) are not the source of illness rather it is the condition of the body that causes susceptibility - if you are malnourished or subject to poisoning then you are susceptible to falling ill and this is what causes germs to proliferate. In other words, germs are not the cause of illness.

Germ Theory holds that the germ (or virus) is the sole cause of illness and as a consequence if you irradicate the germ (or virus) then you will be cured.

Those that rule over us tend to be strong supporters of Germ Theory because it is more convenient than decent housing, food, or work-life balance. Germ Theory really means that you can feed your people any old muck, flog them to work harder and just address any illness with an injection.

The other problem is that the high-priests of Germ Theory (Big Pharma and virologists) can have no truck with Terrain Theory because it fundamentally threatens their power, influence and sales figures.

You may think that Germ Theory and Terrain Theory are complimentary but you still have to give one primacy over the other. A lifetime spent worrying about germs, keeping your children clean and keeping the house spotless is the essential, conditioning pre-requisite that has given Germ Theory primacy and that is what has enabled the plan-demic

Germ Theory vs Terrain Theory

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 10 2021 14:54 utc | 411

ADKC said: "You just draw attention but you haven't anything to say about the sources I linked."

Did you miss the exchange where you said:" It is obvious that western governments are coordinating - the apparent confusion and mixed message is just a psyops. The high-level involvement of psychologists, behaviourists, and the intelligence service tell you as much."

And I responded that your links are exactly what you claim is a govt psyop.
You provide links of authority figures who just contributing to the confusion and mixed messaging.

What should have become obvious to everyone for a very long time is that there is not a lot known about SARS2. This does not mean its not real or that its impact is not real.
There is no doubt that the govt has repeatedly over the course last 19 months made numerous statements that turned out to be untrue and there is no doubt that there are plenty of internet sources providing a counter narrative to the govt's story that is also riddled with statements that are not true.

I stopped listening to your Once Upon A Time in Wuhan link when it made the false claim that the Amish are not affected. I have Amish neighbors and I know that is not true.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 10 2021 15:44 utc | 412

truth or fiction??? this is a report from british columbia, canada..........

"He said as of Thursday, there are 130 people in critical care with COVID-19, with 111 not vaccinated. Ten patients are partially vaccinated and nine are fully vaccinated.

“None of those under 50 who are in ICU at present are fully vaccinated,” said Dix.

Those cases are broken down by age as follows:

20-24: one person
25-29: six people
30-34: four people
35-39: nine people
40-44: five people
45-49: seven people"

Dix on rising number of unvaccinated COVID-19 patients in ICU

Posted by: james | Sep 10 2021 16:06 utc | 413

jinn @413

Oh, jinn, that was just a fleeting cartoon image that was being used to illustrate the point that the general population are locked into what they see on TV - the joke isn't really about the Amish. The image was at the 25-second mark (for about 5 seconds) and wasn't actually mentioned in the video - and you didn't watch any further? Seems to me like you are fake virtue signalling an incidental issue to avoid the bigger issue - I thought you were open-minded?

The bigger issue is what really happened in Wuhan, watch the video read and review the supporting documentation (linked in the video description) then we might have something to discuss:

Once Upon A Time in Wuhan....

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 10 2021 19:33 utc | 414

ADKC wrote:
Oh, jinn, that was just a fleeting cartoon image that was being used to illustrate the point that the general population are locked into what they see on TV

OK, I listened to the rest of it and it is ALL the same sort of misinformation that tries to promote the narrative that covid is just fake news. The video tries to claim that SARS2 does not really exist which is the point of the claiming the Amish don't get the disease because they don't watch TV. The actual facts are that the Amish are very much affected by covid because they don't take any precautions. They also live a healthy life style which does not prevent them from getting covid but is helpful in preventing more serious illness and death.

The doctor in the video that you think is so great obviously has no experience dealing with covid patients. Clinicians who do have experience with covid will not agree. I recall an ER physician saying that he had seen hundreds of people who died of covid and never seen anyone die of the flu.

You have to be dimwitted to claim that people in Wuhan died of air polution when the facts are that in January and February of 2020, when all those people were dying of covid the air in Wuhan was cleaner than it had been in 50 years. With the entire city shut down the skies were clear and blue in Wuhan. Blaming the outbreak on air pollution is just one of the many lies in your video.

The thing i find most offensive about your link are the claims about PCR testing. It is certainly true that
PCR has been abused for political ends but the claims made by your video are equally false in the opposite direction.

The study that I have been hoping someone would do has finally arrived:

In this study they use the sensitivity of the PCR test to try to determine how much viral load the vaccinated and unvaccinated have. There findings demonstrate evidence that the vaccinated have viral loads as high as the unvaccinated which suggests they are spreading the disease as much or more than the unvaccinated.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 10 2021 23:47 utc | 415

james 414

Are many people in Canada vaccinated?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 11 2021 0:09 utc | 416

It is a kind of bitter irony that as everyone is donning masks more masks are coming off.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Sep 11 2021 1:28 utc | 417

@ Peter AU1 | Sep 11 2021 0:09 utc | 417... i am not sure the rates for canada, but b.c. province has pretty high vaccination rates - 70% or more.... it is weird, because i am not following the break downs in age on all this, so i suppose the numbers are complicated depending on if you are including everyone or not... i think the rates for canada are high vaccination rates though - simple answer.. i have seen graphs based on country before and canada was fairly high vax rates..

Posted by: james | Sep 11 2021 2:13 utc | 418

Thanks james
The delta variant is going to go through Australia now. Nurses I have found have the best idea of what is going on in hospitals. I will start getting direct word of mouth information as to what is going on. A daughter in a Queensland hospital, And Aunt, long retired now but still many friends ect within the medical world at Canberra, and a mates wife here in Victoria. There have only been a small number of cases at Canberra but already a number of younger people early thirties onwards in what they call serious condition.
There's so many different opinions around this covid thing that first hand word of mouth information seems the only way to go.
Looks like the country or states at least will be opening up once 70% of the population have had one shot of vaccine so there may be some interesting stats in the not too distant future.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 11 2021 2:27 utc | 419

thanks peter... i agree first hand info is best.. better then the msm.. even that article i quoted from raises a lot of questions in my mind... are these people all in icu because of covid, or are they in icu for different reasons, but they just happen to not be vaccinated?? i am not trying to play devils advocate, but without an insiders knowledge like you might get with your daughter - i have no real way of knowing... cheers and keep us posted on how it develops and goes..

Posted by: james | Sep 11 2021 4:25 utc | 420

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 10 2021 14:54 utc | 412

Knowing that "germs" can create disease and also that proper nutrition and exercise can help inhance the immune system to fight most such invasions are not mutually exclusive. The dichotomy you present does not make sense in the way it is presented.

It seems you are looking at the simple cure vs. prevention argument and that in the US, the profit based medical system is all about cure, the more expensive (MRNA) the better. The prevention approach attempts to reduce the numbers of people succumbing to the "germs" saving society the expense in health and economic consequences. It cannot eliminate the "germ" in most cases. No one in the prevention camp would expect it to.

In prevention, early detection, stronger immune systems, and effective treatments are essential. Keeping the virus going so Big Pharma can make billions off people's unnecessary suffering; that's the neoliberal corporatist way. We also see this "way" in the ME wars, US sanction regimes, and IMF and WB policies, among other areas.

In any case, no amount of exercise or proper diet could defeat polio, say, so cure is an appropriate approach when possible. But for covid, a human corona virus disease, a healthy society would have had less difficulty dealing with the virus had our our corporatocracy not enabled the pandemic to become endemic last year merely to increase the profits and power of a few.

The virus would still have infected people, but with overall milder results that could have been dealt with within the medical system with a focus on treatments until a properly tested vaccine was produced. Lockdowns of up to a month may have been useful at the beginning, but they have proven counterproductive once the virus has gained a widespread footprint.

It is time to push better health, nutrition, early warning testing, explore potentially effective early treatments. Vaccines have there place, but in a not-for-profit medical system, not the corporate scams that are run as "health care" today.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 11 2021 7:26 utc | 421

Isn't it strange how you never ever hear the MSM talk about the importance of taking vitamin D-3, vitamin C, and Zinc, to keep the immune system working at maximum efficiency?

Isn't it strange how you never ever hear the MSM talk about how groups that are vitamin D deficient are much more likely to get sick from a myriad of viruses and bacteria because their immune systems are compromised?

Isn't it strange how you never ever hear the MSM talk about the huge numbers of people who are asymptomatic or had symptoms and therefore already have the necessary antibodies, and therefore do not need to be "vaccinated"?

Posted by: Larry | Sep 11 2021 13:50 utc | 422

@ADKC #412
I think both germ and terrain theory are simplistic.
Germ theory is incorrect because human immune systems are reactive - a failure to be exposed to sufficient different triggers for it is very likely linked to the increase of autoimmune disorders.
Terrain theory is incorrect because there absolutely are both conditions and germs for which even healthy systems will not be able to combat. The most properly vitaminized, micronutriented whoever can still get sick from not getting enough sleep, from a high viral load exposure, from being injured, etc etc.
But the biggest problem is that germ/terrain theory is not the issue here.
The issue here is what makes sense going forward regarding COVID or any other highly contagious disease which is not extremely high IFR.
I was understanding of the lockdowns and what not early on - nobody really knew and so mistakes are going to happen.
At this point, however, we do have a fairly firm understanding of what COVID does and does not do, as well as what the vaccines can and cannot do about it.
Yet the policies we are seeing are clearly stupid and counterproductive both from a health perspective and from a functional society perspective.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 11 2021 15:38 utc | 423


Thanks for comment 391

Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 11 2021 16:04 utc | 424

The worldometers site is now starting to show wave patterns for some countries. US and Israel show the first wave and the second smaller wave which I take to be delta variant appears to have peaked and not as strong as the first wave. With both Israel and US the new infection to death ratio appears unchanged. UK the second wave is different sharply peaking then dropping back a little to continue at at a somewhat high level, but death rates are staying low.
Russia used a different strategy from the start, I think initially some lockdowns to limit spread until new hospitals were built then opening up but stressing masks and so forth. They have done what was talked about by a number of governments and which was b's thought the best strategy at the styart which was leveling the curve or peaks to prevent hospitals being swamped.
For here in oz, not enough data in worldometers to show anything. No first wave, very little in the way of vaccinations for the simple reason our rulers are waiting for scraps from their masters table. Deaths look to start with people in their thirties as was the case in China before anything was known about the disease. One person in their 30's and another in their 40's died overnight without bothering to go to a hospital.
Government are talking about opening up the place when 70% of the population have one vaccination so with no first wave of other strains, delta will be the first wave for Australia so will be interesting to see what the graph looks like a few months down the track.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 11 2021 18:22 utc | 425

Since june have had my father die my cousin die my wifes aunt diemy former boss die my mother in laws best friend die wifes friends mom die all after phyzer shot from strokes and heart attacks caused by blood clots i am 57 never have i seen this much death in this time frame in my life.

Posted by: James busby | Sep 11 2021 19:23 utc | 426

James busby

Here in Australia, over sixties only get the Astra Zenica, under sixties the government is pushing Pfizer for under sixties but they can also choose AZ.
What ages were those that died after the Pfizer shot?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 11 2021 19:37 utc | 427

Father 82 wifes aunt 81 cousin 59 former boss63 mother in laws friend 70 here in canada you get whatever shots available no choice i have yet to meet anyone who knows anyone who has had covid.

Posted by: James busby | Sep 11 2021 19:49 utc | 428

Thanks James. I have heard no reason from our government on why they recommend AZ for over sixties and Pfizer for under sixties but the medical world here in oz still has a reasonable amount of integrity. Some months back, I did read some official reports from I think both Pfizer and Moderna trials in, if I remember correctly Sweden. Quite a number of the over 70s died within a a short time frame (several weeks) after the shot and in the report the bulk were simply listed as dying from other issues. My suspicion has been that current rNMA side effects can occur for some time, weeks perhaps months after the shot. Do you know how long after they were vaccinated that the clots appeared?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 11 2021 20:08 utc | 429

All died within two weeks of second shot can add 1 more today wifes friends mom died last night just found out a few minutes they want to force everyone to get the jab over the age of 12 how much death by vaccine is acceptable before they stop this

Posted by: James busby | Sep 11 2021 21:17 utc | 430

James busby 431

With the side effects and general in effectiveness of the five-eyes vaccines, which is all we are allowed, with Pfizer being the one much pushed, makes me wonder if the five-eyes populations are being vaccinated against a future disease out break that is in the works.
US wants to take down Russia China combined but all their standard weapons are obviously not up to the task.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 11 2021 21:33 utc | 431

Q: But what about the reports of vaccinated people in hospitals and ICUs?

A: Those people are probably very old or have significant additional diseases. The media have overplayed the issue and most reports about severe 'breakthrough' infections are just sensational crap that is not based on actual data. Most people who now end up in the hospitals and ICUs are in fact not vaccinated:
unfortunately this is mostly false as seen in the latest statistics by PHE (public health england) which is collected every month since february. As of september 3rd, the cases of hospitalisations and deaths in the >50 years age group account for more than the unvaccinated cases. this is the age group that is meant to benefit the most from this vaccine. this is not a benefit! this is not conspiracy. these are statistics collected and analyzed and seen on table 5 of the report
if you look over the numbers you will find:
A. Out of over 200,000 confirmed cases of sequenced delta variant there have been about 100 deaths (0.04%) in the unvaccinated grp) ... however out of around 60,000 cases of the variant in the vaccinated group, there have been 37 deaths (0.06%)
B. there have been 1798 total deaths within 28 days of testing positive. meanwhile 1091 of those are in the vaccinated group, and 1050 of them are >50. that is some terrible vaccine efficiency.


Posted by: fbomb | Sep 12 2021 12:33 utc | 432

"...They were not designed for that and never promised to do so"

Yes that was promised by Fauci and the CDC director.

Posted by: Bart Miller | Sep 12 2021 21:57 utc | 433

B said:
'Q: Do you expect to get Covid-19?

A: Yes I do. The virus is now endemic and will likely - over time- infect every human (and many other mammals). But I am now vaccinated and my body has learned and remembers how to fight the virus. It will most likely do that fast enough to prevent extraordinaire damage and a severe disease. After that first infection a second or third will likely happen over the next years and decades. Each one will also reinforce my body's defenses, especially against the then predominant variant.'
so admits zero covid, which has been the aim of many western govts is impossible

'I am now vaccinated and my body has learned and remembers how to fight the virus'
covid 'vaccines' only activate antibodies , not Memory T or B cells

the fact israel is now on its 4th dose in less than a year shows these 'vaccines' dont provide immune memory

Posted by: brian | Sep 13 2021 2:47 utc | 434

'The vaccines induce certain cells in our immune system (B- and T-cells) to create specific antibodies (proteins) against the virus and to detect and kill infected cells. After the virus is eliminated from the body there is no need to keep the antibodies around. A few weeks after a vaccination or infection the body slowly discards them.'

fine but the assumption is that T and B memory cells are engaged by the vaccine

The talk is of covid vaccines effecting an antibody response, Tcells have largely been ignored

'Messenger-RNA (mRNA) vaccines against the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 provoke a swift and strong response by the immune system’s T cells—the heavy armor of the immune system—according to a study from researchers in the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. Although recent studies of vaccines tend to focus on the antibody response, the T-cell response is also an important and potentially more durable source of protection—yet little has been reported so far on the T-cell response to COVID-19 vaccines.'

clearly in israel thats not happening: then onto their 4th dose (2nd booster) and talk is of shots having 6 months duration

Posted by: brian | Sep 13 2021 3:01 utc | 435

'“Most people here are unvaccinated,” says Dr. Ilya Kagan, head of the coronavirus intensive care ward at Beilinson Hospital near Tel Aviv, standing at the bed of a man in his 50s who is sedated and on a ventilator.'

meanwhile in ireland!

About half of all Covid-19 patients in hospital and in intensive care are fully vaccinated against the disease, new figures show'

Posted by: brian | Sep 13 2021 3:10 utc | 436

'Q: But what about the reports of vaccinated people in hospitals and ICUs?

A: Those people are probably very old or have significant additional diseases.'

those covid19 infected numbers and the famous running death toll have mostly been old sick people, esp those in care homes. Govts raced after their vaccines claiming everyone would be equally effected.

anyone sufferiung under covid19 infection needs to have their vitamin D levels measured. Below 30 ng/ml and your less likely to come thru a covid bout unscathed

Posted by: brian | Sep 13 2021 3:16 utc | 437

Natural immunity is better and longer lasting:

'“For people who haven’t had COVID-19, the first dose powerfully primes the pump, and the second dose turns on the whole engine—but having had COVID-19 is like having had that first vaccine dose already,” Wherry said. “It is important to point out, however, that a complete understanding of the relative importance of these T cell responses, compared to antibody, in protection from future infections will require larger clinical studies.”

The results also showed that the T-cell response in the weeks after mRNA vaccination includes T-cell types normally elicited by natural infection—and in general, natural viral infection is known to be capable of inducing T-cell protection that lasts years and even decades.'

but if you settled for natural immunity, you upset the big pharma apple cart

Posted by: brian | Sep 13 2021 3:21 utc | 438

'Health officials have said the effects of the initial Covid-19 shots weaken five months after inoculation, making boosters necessary. '
'The U.S. and U.K. also plan to start offering booster shots later this month, while Europe is also considering third doses. That comes as the World Health Organization pleads for a moratorium on third shots. Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said last week that governments should wait at least until the end of this year so that poorer countries can get better access to vaccines.'

'The country, once a front-runner in the global race to move on from Covid-19, became a pandemic hot spot in early September. Following the spread of the delta variant over the summer, Israel had the world’s highest per-capita infection rate in the week through Sept. 4, according to figures compiled by Johns Hopkins University. '
'The rate of severe cases per 100,000 of the population among unvaccinated people is far higher than among those who have received two vaccine doses, showing that even with waning immunity, shots provide some protection against serious illness.'

the unvaccinated should check their vitamin D levels, if theyre below 20 ng/ml, infection could be a problem

Posted by: brian | Sep 13 2021 3:33 utc | 439

Germ theory is comfortable to accept for many people simply because they can continue to live their lives as they see fit and if they become ill it isn't their fault, its the germs, and they can see a doctor and he can put them on some pills and so on.

The following video is an example of the government response to Covid that dismays me.

Posted by: Vice grip | Sep 13 2021 12:17 utc | 440

Official CDC data spells this out: COVID kills mainly the elderly, the obese, and those with other diseases.

If you are under 50 and healthy, the case for getting vaccinated w a new vaccine w little safety record is marginal. If you are under 18, it might even be considered irresponsible

Savvy folks need to be able to distinguish the differing relevance of case counts vs hospitalizations vs fatalities.

At this point in time, the unvaxxinated are not killing innocent vaxxed folks. It should rather be understood that the unvaxxed are killing themselves. And IMHO they have the right to do so.

Posted by: Joe | Sep 13 2021 14:07 utc | 441

I'm a great fan. With all respect for your great body of work I have to say your aggressive support of the Vaccine regimen surprises me. Our government openly admits 15K deaths and the better part of a million 'negative' outcomes' USA alone. The H1N1 world vaccination program was stopped after a few more than 50 confirmed vaccine-related deaths. One whistle-blower has estimated a US death figure from the mRNA vaccine (sic) ten times larger. I'm not taking the Jab.. likely those that do will be taking a lot more jabs. Even their pets! now I'm seeing.

Not starting an argument. Your audience, on this thread at least, seems to be soundly behind you. For your and their sake I hope I am wrong. Either way I am a healthy man for my age with a history of a strong immune system and I do not fear this virus or whatever it is. And NO the resurgence is not among or caused by unvaccinated people. One cruise-ship left Galveston with every crew member and passenger fully (whatever that means) vaccinated and they had to quarantine for C19.

Live well and prosper.

Posted by: sotexguy | Sep 13 2021 14:47 utc | 442

I am really disgusted by and irked by Moon's take on this subject, he really needs to get back to the drawing board on this subject, his advice is pure Crap, he obviously has not done his homework, and he is Dead wrong. We are referring here of course to the mRNA vaccines, the 'experimental' poison cocktails that are injuring vast numbers of people never before allowed to continue after reaching this # of deaths and injuries. His pure 'speculation' that this Faux ( not really a ) vaccine confers any of the protections he attributes to it is pure Big Pharma crap. But worse than him advising people to run out and harm themselves with a phony experimental gene manipulation experiment, harms that portend to last a life time, is the bigger story he misses entirely, that this Big Pharma vaccine and virus 'research' has intentionally created the virus and it's harms, and then he advocates for the 'experimental' antidote to be administered by the perpetrators of the crime. This research into things like a self Spreading vaccine, now directly applied to a manufactured self spreading virus, has been going on at least the past 15 years with the goal being exactly what is going on now, the cash cow has been realized, along with whatever other hidden agenda the deep state new world order has ordered up for our future. This is a crime beyond, almost, human imagination, diabolical beyond belief, but, go ahead folks, go get your jab, with Unbelievably no distinction being made between maybe a non mRNA vaccine ? The door is open now, thanks B., now they can begin altering DNA in a host of new, marketable, mRNA drugs, the sky is the limit now that our human DNA is no longer considered sacrosanct, let the Frankensteins proliferate.

Posted by: edwardi | Sep 13 2021 20:22 utc | 443

There's more than enough evidence now that forcing the "vaccine" on teenage boys is definitely going to kill some of them.

The rate of myocarditis incidence, often resulting in an early death, in teenage boys increases at the least by hundreds, and possibly even by thousands, of percent after taking this provably useless (for teens) "vaccine".

Far more will die from this provably useless, for teens, " vaccine" than would ever have died from Covid.

It's completely unessecary, for teens anyway, and confers no extra protections of any sort once it has been forced upon them.

We cannot say with 100 percent certainty that "They are trying to kill our teenage sons!"

But we can say with one hundred percent certainty that : "In the process of forcing a useless injection upon our children, they do not care if they kill some of our otherwise healthy teenage sons in the process!"

Posted by: W.W. | Sep 13 2021 21:45 utc | 444

COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness—the elephant (not) in the room

The Lancet reports:

Vaccine efficacy is generally reported as a relative risk reduction (RRR). It uses the relative risk (RR)—ie, the ratio of attack rates with and without a vaccine—which is expressed as 1–RR. Ranking by reported efficacy gives relative risk reductions of :

    95% for the Pfizer–BioNTech,
    94% for the Moderna–NIH,
    91% for the Gamaleya,
    67% for the J&J, and
    67% for the AstraZeneca–Oxford vaccines.

However, RRR should be seen against the background risk of being infected and becoming ill with COVID-19, which varies between populations and over time.

Although the RRR considers only participants who could benefit from the vaccine, the *absolute risk reduction* (ARR), which is the difference between attack rates with and without a vaccine, considers the whole population.

ARRs tend to be ignored because they give a much less impressive effect size than RRRs:

    1.3% for the AstraZeneca–Oxford,
    1.2% for the Moderna–NIH,
    1.2% for the J&J,
    0.93% for the Gamaleya, and
    0.84% for the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccines.

Posted by: W.W. | Sep 13 2021 23:08 utc | 445

‘Immunity conferred by vaccines weakens over time ‘

Natural immunity is far better and it’s free and doesnt enrich the pharmaceuticals

Posted by: Brian | Sep 14 2021 23:16 utc | 446

b, I assume good intent from your side. But your advice and conclusions are harmful. Most of those like you with good intent, tend to confuse the long standing conclusions of certain disciplines like epidemiology or virology with how this would need to be adapted in case of man made intent in the causation. Your conclusions in the Q+A are a mix of conventional scientific truths mixed with correct conclusions of the political dynamics showing clear signs of manipulation. This is a phenomenon is quite unprecedented in scale to date. That is why you see soo many highly reputed scientists being marginalised (Ioannidis, P.McCullough, FLCCC Alliance, Prof Sucharit Bakhdi, the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration, Martin Kulldorf nobel prize winner, and the list goes on and on. In such situations the best orientation on whom to listen to is to see who has questions rather than answers. As the whole two year's medico-political phenomena is teaming with contradictions no wonder that those with a thorough understanding of their fields were initially puzzled by the extreme measures and policy decisions (e.g. CDC and WHO overwriting suddenly decades of established definitions of "vaccine" and "pandemic").
In conclusion, to come up with some practical advice, the most measured information which I found in Switzerland, but with a global relevance is that summarised and regularly updated on the Swiss Policy Research site. but for those with a scientific interest I also highly recommend following Gabor Erdosi on twitter. .
Yours sincerely
Pharm.D., PhD. Mol. Bio. + 20+y experience in pharmaceutical development

Posted by: JK | Sep 15 2021 10:20 utc | 447

uncle tungsten | Sep 8 2021 3:48 utc | 278


Ya! Much better, but it was fun having BLM Canadians setting their hair on fire because I "appropriated" the slogan.
Every single one would NOT discuss my opinion that slavery (and discrimination) was just a violent economic artifact.

Posted by: Mann Friedman | Sep 16 2021 0:42 utc | 448!

please check out!

Posted by: Dutch | Sep 19 2021 20:03 utc | 449

why taking the shot when INVERMECTIVE is proving to be a preemptive cure for COVID?

link to the article

in spanish but the studies are in english and dowloadable pdfs. and linked to the original article (en)

The photo at the bottom of the post is from a tile wall from The Orphans Palace one of the few that resisted the 1775 earthquake in the Lisbonnense Mouraria, where portuguese Fado was born

Represents the sacrifice of Jacob

, the whole stairway is decorated in the same fashion with biblical scenes

in the Galerias/santa maria a maior i have some photos in my blog

the caption "Are you going to sacrifice your children to the Pharma-Mafia's g-d?"

PROOF: The COVID shot is a complete failure, according to scientific data


at the bottom of the post you can get to all my articles related to COVID , Vaccines and deaths caused by them, the success of INVERMECTIN in India and Mexico, first reported in May 28th 2021.
links to the Eudra Vigilance system of the EMA (official data) updated every forthnight that counts more than 24.000 deaths by 9/11 so DO NOT TAKE THE SHOT use invermectin that can be purchased on-line very cheap with no prescription, but ask your doctor for the right dose.

For the music

fados for you all, enjoy!!!

Coincidence does not exist, but casualities... there will be a lot from vaccines, check for yourselves.....


Posted by: Dodgone | Sep 22 2021 4:24 utc | 450

There's another lab in Wuhan:

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 24 2021 4:35 utc | 451

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