Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 21, 2021

"What Happens When China Becomes Number One?"

Kishore Mahbubani is an experienced Singaporean civil servant. He later became Dean and Professor in the Practice of Public Policy at the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy at the National University of Singapore.

In 2015 he gave a talk at the Harvard Kennedy School's Institute of Politics under the title "What Happens When China Becomes Number One?"

The video of the talk was uploaded earlier this year. The interesting part starts at 28:00 min where he begins to show a proverbial mirror to the audience.

He ends his talk with this:

Would the United States be comfortable living in a world where China behaves just like America did when it was the sole superpower?

bigger

Unfortunately U.S. President Joe Biden did not reflect on that question. In his speech today, before the United Nations General Assembly, he again displayed an unnecessary aggressive posture towards China:

Mr. Biden said the world faced a choice between the democratic values espoused by the West and the disregard for them by China and other authoritarian governments.

“The future belongs to those who give their people the ability to breathe free, not those who seek to suffocate their people with an iron hand authoritarianism,” he said. “The authoritarians of the world, they seek to proclaim the end of the age of democracy, but they’re wrong.”

But the president vowed not to pursue a new era of sustained conflict with countries like China, saying that the United States would “compete vigorously and lead with our values and our strength to stand up for our allies and our friends.”

“We’re not seeking — say it again, we are not seeking — a new Cold War or a world divided into rigid blocks,” he said.

To which Blake Hounshell correctly replies:

Blake News @blakehounshell - 14:55 UTC · Sep 21, 2021

Nobody ever says,
“I am seeking a new Cold War.”

I would also add that 650,000 people in the U.S. have lost their "ability to breathe free" over the last eighteen months while China has successfully suppressed the pandemic. Are 'democratic' or 'authoritarian' the right criteria for judging that difference?

In an answer to a question after his talk Mahbubani, who believes that China will soon be number one, he explains (58:00 min):

Unlike the United States of America the Chinese do not believe in proselytizing their beliefs. ... So in a sense we will have a very different world when the world's number one power is no longer a missionary power.

I for one hope for that.

h/t agitpapa

Posted by b on September 21, 2021 at 17:11 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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What happens was described by Russia's national security advisor.

Russian security chief warns of US, Atlantic allies becoming more erratic and belligerent

https://tass.com/defense/1340539

The decline is causing mental craziness and desire to violently lash out, like an wounded animal. They thought that they are the top people in the world, the teachers of others, and that they alone will build a new utopian world. Instead "the best" started declining. That wasn't supposed to happen.

Posted by: Passer by | Sep 21 2021 17:25 utc | 1

There is no shortage of people aching to live under authoritarianism.

Posted by: noNazis_noCommunists | Sep 21 2021 17:26 utc | 2

Indeed, it's good to bring up Mahbubani he is an interesting voice. There are a number of youtube videos of him talking in various settings. I haven't heard much from him recently. In my view China has already "won" it is the moral leader of the world having eliminated poverty. Economically it is only shoring up its system for the time, perhaps soon, when the USD looses its reserve status.

What China must do with lots of help from the rest of the world is get the US off its high horse while keeping them from using their nuclear weapons toruin it for everyone if they can't own it.

Posted by: Babyl-on | Sep 21 2021 17:37 utc | 3

I see Biden is continuing the BIG LIE technique
"
“The future belongs to those who give their people the ability to breathe free, not those who seek to suffocate their people with an iron hand authoritarianism,” he said. “The authoritarians of the world, they seek to proclaim the end of the age of democracy, but they’re wrong.”
"

This is a projection lie from the most authoritarian empire of them all, the God of Mammon one. The Canadian and Aussies here will tell you that democracy in their countries is a sham just like in the US and all under the jackboot of finance authoritarianism.

The shit show built around the lies of freedumb and dumbocracy are hopefully coming to an end brought to you by the example of a better way.....social organization with public finance at the core of the structure....China

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 21 2021 17:44 utc | 4

The west's 'sound institutions' don't produce wealth, they are predicated upon wealth gained from raping continents, first by exploiting slaves then by exploiting oil. But that wealth is drying up and liberal democracy is showing its true face, the face of a rapist for whom nothing is sacred. Originally, after the American and French revolutions, liberals and democrats were in opposition, liberals being slavers who wanted no limit from a monarch on how they could treat their slaves. Liberal democracy is the pale compromise they made to retain power along with the pretence of popular democracy. Anyway, all this cold-war-era tossing around of -isms doesn't address any contemporary issues. Whoever has the material and coercive means to pursue their own perceived self-interest will due so and deploy an ideology like liberal democracy to win Jesuitical loyalty from the gormless.

Posted by: noLiberals_noBougies | Sep 21 2021 17:51 utc | 5

I love Mahbubani, he's one of the few people out in that community that sees things the way they are and doesn't spout nonsense.

Strongly recommend that anyone reading this checkout Kishore Mahbubani's book, "Has China Won?: The Chinese Challenge to American Primacy"

The title is sort of misrepresentative of the contents of the book, but it's an extremely interesting and lucid analysis of China's current strategic position and interests. It also excellently dispels many of the myths about China that the US MSM and govt peddles. I would easily say it's one of the most important reads if you want to understand where the geopolitical big picture.

Here's the book:
https://www.amazon.com/Has-China-Won-Challenge-American/dp/1541768132

Here's an interview where he summarizes the points in the book:
https://youtu.be/li6xcTsVPB4

Posted by: Lietzu | Sep 21 2021 17:52 utc | 6

Biden is just a Phony Ponzi Puppet of a suzerainty.

It seems like that the U$A and UK (Financial Empire) are creating a global alliance structure similar to the last Cold War alliances of SEATO (AUKUS) and CENTO (Abraham Accords?). However, China has analyzed this construct and well prepared. The Empire can’t fool anymore!

What happened to SEATO and CENTO?
SEATO (1954-77)
The Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) was an international alliance created by the U$A & UK to keep communist powers in check (Communist China, in SEATO's case). The policy was developed by George F. Kennan, and Secretary of State John Foster Dulles. Unlike the NATO alliance, SEATO had no joint commands with standing forces. “Internal conflict and disputes hindered general use of the SEATO military;”
Members: U$A, UK, Australia, New Zealand, (Five Eyes), France, Pakistan, Philippines, Thailand

CENTO (1955-79)
The Central Treaty Organisation (CENTO), or the Middle East Treaty Organisation (METO), was a military alliance of the Cold War. It was aimed at containing the Soviet Union. It was formed in 1955 by Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey and the United Kingdom and dissolved in 1979. U$A’s pressure and promises of military and economic aid were key in the negotiations leading to the agreement, but the United States could not initially participate. John Foster Dulles, led the negotiations and claimed that the U$A didn’t join due to "the pro-Israel lobby and the difficulty of obtaining Congressional Approval." However in 1958, the US joined the military committee of the alliance.

The U$A (U$ury $lavery Armament$) is a private plantation of the Financial Empire with a private monetary system. Politicians are the publicly hired psycho hit men that camouflage bad and justify the act. China is pursuing its strategy with focus to be self-reliant by 2025! Please name a democracy that isn’t a suzerainty. The Financial Empire will end!

Why is the “hypocritical hegemon” (U$A) lost?

Posted by: Max | Sep 21 2021 17:57 utc | 7

China had their French Revolution (doing away with feudalism in favorof meritocracy) 1,000 years before the French Revolution.

China, 5o say the least, is more mature than the West by a thousand years.

Posted by: Afgun | Sep 21 2021 17:59 utc | 8

I see Biden is continuing the BIG LIE technique

“The future belongs to those who give their people the ability to breathe free, not those who seek to suffocate their people with an iron hand authoritarianism,” he said.

Difficult to understand how he squares that assertion with the authoritrian iron hand of state forced vaccination resulting in iatrongenic imjury.

I suspect the job description for the "leader of the free world" is a simple one: just read whatever is shown on the teleprompter.


Posted by: Sushi | Sep 21 2021 17:59 utc | 9

"Mr. Biden said the world faced a choice between... "

No, whatever words you used to describe China, it is NOT forcing anyone to make a "choice." You still can keep the (good or bad) system your people prefer. It is US that is forcing the world to make a choice, the typical arrogant, bully attitude of "either for us or against us".

Posted by: d dan | Sep 21 2021 17:59 utc | 10

Let me echo Lietzu: Mahbubani's book, Has China Won?, is quite good.

He makes a half-ass effort to criticize China for alienating the US business community through its technology transfer policies, but, by the end of the book, it is clear that he believes that the US is acting recklessly and that China offers something new and positive to the world. What a refreshing perspective.

He especially debunks the US claims around the 'militarization' of the South China Sea. The US ignored proposals from Xi, took unilateral actions which demolished Chinese trust, and forced China to draw red lines.

Definitely worth reading.

Posted by: Prof | Sep 21 2021 18:03 utc | 11

I've already expressed part of my analysis in this article, and in the following comment that I copy from the open thread, which is where you can find the links to the articles I cite:

Thanks for the feedback from those brave enough to read my humble article. Biden kicked off the UNGA with the usual bundle of lies about the Outlaw US Empire's benevolence. And as usual with Biden, he unknowingly utters an unwelcome truth to the US public and the world:

"Addressing the UN General Assembly on Tuesday, Biden characterised military power as a 'tool of last resort,' and suggested that any mission involving the US military in the future 'must be clear and achievable, undertaken with informed consent of the American people and whenever possible in partnership with our allies.'" [My Emphasis]

So, all previous wars since WW2 were illegal from a Constitutional standpoint since they were never "undertaken with the informed consent of the American people" and certainly outside the very limited legal grounds stated by the UN Charter and thus the US Constitution. Note how he studiously avoided saying at the end "in partnership with our allies" and always with the approval of the UNSC.

At least there was one big howler--Biden's "opening a new era of relentless diplomacy"--with the absolutely inept crew he has on board, which was initiated by two attacks by its vassals aimed at Russia: Charging another suspect in the completely unproven Skripal case, and the ECHR's charging Russia with being behind the Litvinenko poisoning. Biden also said there's no new cold war, but the Outlaw US Empire only knows that way of behaving--peace and cooperation with the rest of the world isn't in its lexicon.

And I'm sure there's much more as I've only scanned this morning's news reports. Oh, I almost forgot. China's not buying Biden's line that he doesn't seek a new cold war as this Global Times editorial headline shouts, "Biden should be held accountable with Trump for the ‘new cold war’":

"More and more facts have proven that Washington always fails to keep its promises. As the US withdrew its troops from Afghanistan and formed a security alliance with the UK and Australia, Washington has twice sacrificed Europe's interests. This has made Europeans realize that Biden's approach and Donald Trump's 'America First' policy are basically the same thing. The so-called strengthening of the alliance is just an honorific plaque that the US has built for itself.

"The whole world now is talking about a 'new cold war,' and even UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has expressed his concerns. However, it is the US that has caused all the changes and conflicts that give the global community such a strong impression. And it is US officials that have made all sorts of excuses when they are doubted and questioned by the general public. To use a Chinese saying, Washington's declaration of 'no new Cold War' is like writing a sign that reads 'No 300 taels of silver buried here' after literally burying them there. It just reveals what the US intends to hide."

It will be interesting to listen to Xi's speech later today to see if he amends his planned speech to deal with Biden's words. Regardless, as the editor notes, the Outlaw US Empire has only itself to blame for the lack of credibility it now enjoys with the global community, which now demands proof in deeds, not words promoting empty promises.

I would add that the great problem of all empires is they fail to see their reflection whenever a mirror is held up in front of their nose, whether real or rhetorical, yet they project those images constantly whenever they utter a word. And I'd bet none of Biden's vaunted Foreign Policy Elite that's going to launch his diplomatic offensive have ever read Paul Kennedy's seminal work, The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change and Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000, wherein he details how those powers wilted from over extension and internal dissention fueled by spectacular levels of immorality and corruption. Patrushev's correct:

"'I believe that the US and its allies should bear responsibility for destruction of sovereign states' economies, for aggravation of inter-ethnic and political problems, and for intensification of terrorist, extremist and other threats, including through making compensations significantly exceeding the trillions they spent to undermine stability around the world,' Patrushev said."

And that isn't all he said. Raisi's now at the UNGA podium and he's telling it like it is!

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2021 18:21 utc | 12

thanks b... i would echo @ 4 psychohistorians viewpoint.. indeed.... this is a slow motion accident we are watching.. nothing any western politician says will make it any different.. i welcome a change from this dried up rhetoric from these cheap suits...

Posted by: james | Sep 21 2021 18:36 utc | 13

Prof, @11

Agreed, that chapter on technology sharing was the low point of the book and seemingly a lame attempt at both sideism. China's only real crime against US business men is threatening to out perform them in the global system that was supposed to be rigged so they always win.

Rest is great though. I love how he compares China's huge uplifting of people in poverty with the downward spiral into of the US working class. Given that the US ruling class seems totally disinterested in true reform, it's a very powerful indicator that the Empire will collapse from the inside. Another great moment is when he states that if this is a second cold war then the US is more comparable to the Soviet Union this time with it's rigid military budget that can only go up.

Posted by: Lietzu | Sep 21 2021 18:37 utc | 14

Lietzu,
Totally agree. That chapter was indeed a lame attempt at both sideism!
I'll look out for your comments here in the future. Very astute!
I just watched the INET interview. Very nice summary.
The US is making strategic mistake after strategic mistake.

Posted by: Prof | Sep 21 2021 18:43 utc | 15

"The future belongs to those who give their people the ability to breathe free, not those who seek to suffocate their people ..."

Says the US, the chauvinistic self-appointed cop of the world that repeatedly, callously presses its knee and all of its weight down on the necks of millions of ordinary people around the world to suffocate them through brutal sanctions - just to ensure its unilateral authoritarian will.

This is the criminal enterprise that decided to confiscate billions of dollars from desperately poor people of Venezuela and now Afghanistan, that confiscates oil and farmland from the Syrian people whose country it devastated, that is besieging the poor people of Syria, Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Yemen, etc. depriving them of the ability to breathe economically.

This is the mob boss that threatens "And when we are not happy you do not want to underestimate how nasty we can be."

This is the country that considers US economic sanctions that killed an estimated half a million children in Iraq to be "worth it."

Trying to "contain" China, Russia, etc. through the use of geopolitical and economic chokepoints, and projects like AUKUS, means keeping a stranglehold ready to suffocate those populations to enforce submission to Western authority.

The "democratic" (plutocratic) West's modus operandi is suffocating populations to enforce its authoritarian will so that the 1% club can breathe free ...

And within the US apparently "one in four American workers relied on unemployment aid during the outbreak", "more than 35 million people reported being food insecure this summer. Eleven million could not afford to eat at least once in the last week." Is that the ability to breathe free?

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Sep 21 2021 18:44 utc | 16

"Mr. Biden said the world faced a choice between the democratic values espoused by the West and the disregard for them by China and other authoritarian governments.

'The future belongs to those who give their people the ability to breathe free, not those who seek to suffocate their people with an iron hand authoritarianism,” he said. “The authoritarians of the world, they seek to proclaim the end of the age of democracy, but they’re wrong.'”

LOL.

I doubt that Joe Biden believes his own propaganda about the United States or its allies representing "democratic values" around the globe. If he really means America and its allies *lying* about their democratic values, then yes.

For the past generation since the 9-11 Reichstag Fire, the Leader of the Free World--America--has created things like the Homeland Security Department, Patriot Act (which Biden helped write), and Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE) unit, all of which suffocate US citizens and non-citizens with an "iron hand of authoritarianism."

Enhanced interrogation, Waterboarding, Gitmo Gulag, CIA Black Sites, Abu Ghraib torture, Extraordinary Rendition, and putting the children of undocumented children in American cages (by Donald Trump) or in plastic pods (by Joe Biden) doesn't exactly scream "Freedom and Democracy" to me.

Nor does domestic surveillance by the National Security Agency and "anti-terrorist" Fusion Centers, as well as police brutality from sea to shining sea--resulting in the largest domestic American rebellion since the 1960s with the George Floyd protests last year.

The "Liberal Democracy vs. Authoritarian" thing is a meme to help market the New Cold War that Biden claims not to be waging.

And "Authoritarians"= the new Deplorables on a global scale.

SEPTEMBER 11 AND THE PATRIOT ACT
https://theintercept.com/empire-politician/biden-september-11-patriot-act/

We Should Be Very Worried About Joe Biden’s “Domestic Terrorism” Bill
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/01/joe-biden-domestic-terrorism-bill-capitol-building


Posted by: ak74 | Sep 21 2021 18:47 utc | 17

"The future belongs to me!" isn't there a Nazi country song in there somewhere?

Frankly, I want to know what shots Joe's getting to go from stroke-watch to a major speech at the UN.

We're in full Orwell now; Democracy vs Authority when the entire mess is a hop-skip-jump away from dystopian totalitarianism.

Posted by: gottlieb | Sep 21 2021 19:08 utc | 18

Patrushev interview with Argumenty i Fakty in Russian, "A chain reaction of chaos. Nikolai Patrushev on alliances and values alien to Russia":

"The United States is the main instigators of disorder in the world and must answer for this."

The interview centers on the recent BRICS, CSTO & SCO Summits and their outcomes relative to the Outlaw US Empire's chaotic Afghan retreat. I value being able to read this man's thoughts, and there's much to read. I'll provide another of his highlighted quotations:

"For Washington, there are no friends in the world, but only its own selfish interests. Having spent trillions of dollars on military operations, the U.S. and its allies everywhere left behind chaos and destruction."

And it appears from my search that numerous Russian publications picked up the interview and republished or provided an in-depth synopsis like those from TASS and Sputnik.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2021 19:16 utc | 19

@gottlieb | Sep 21 2021 19:08 utc | 18

"The future belongs to me!" isn't there a Nazi country song in there somewhere?

Tomorrow belongs to me

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 21 2021 19:31 utc | 20

Karlof1 @19
Thanks for your contributions. Would welcome more of your remarks and translations from the Patrushev interview.

Canadian Cents @ 16:
Of all the elements they could have taken from the 'bring me your poor ... your huddled masses' speech, in the aftermath of the George Floyd, BLM protests, 'breathe free' should have been the one element any speechwriter should avoid. Instead, as with so many other exhibits of aspirational Presidential grandiloquence, the texts almost seem designed to trigger maximal incredulity.

Perhaps the strategy is simply to overwhelm the listener's critical faculties through debilitating outrage.

Posted by: Paul Damascene | Sep 21 2021 19:36 utc | 21

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2021 19:16 utc | 19

The whole Patrushev interview is worth reading. I was about to remark the first point that you quoted, the reference to reparations, they will be mentioned more often. And then I stopped to listen to Xi Jinping intervention in the UNGA, to my surprise it was on RT tube channel in Spanish!!, what the local media does not do someone else will since Latin America is no small continent.

Posted by: Paco | Sep 21 2021 19:44 utc | 22

I recall a speech by Mabuhbani where he talked about how much the west underestimated the advances made in the rest of the world, especially the third world. There is fairly well known research about how much the world has advanced in many ways , health, wealth and literacy went up and violence went down and how we tend to underestimate it.
What struck me at the time was how the same studies were used to argue very different points of view. Mabuhbani recommends more western modesty. Neocons and humanitarian imperialists do right the opposite and use it to praise the benefits of american hegemony.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Sep 21 2021 19:45 utc | 23

And all the U$A has to do, is match positive actions, with the "democratic" rhetoric it always spouts to the world. Something it has never done for decades.

Matching actions to rhetoric is a challenge for humanity, but it isn't rocket science.

Posted by: vetinLA | Sep 21 2021 19:45 utc | 24

Thank you B for this vigorous, on-target punch, a timely reminder that « values » & « democracy » propaganda is not only used to wage war on foreigners, but also to enslave the American people, and write off his dead.

Posted by: Leuk | Sep 21 2021 19:48 utc | 25

the US is dead.

we cannot have national unity fighting the coronavirus but we are to be unified in blaming China for our failure.

it's the fault of China, that can give a unified, consistent, long-term, supremely effective response to an invader, for 100's of millions, perhaps billions of people. China is the problem.

the USG does nothing but lie and dissemble to its populace. they have to fake the coronavirus stats or people might be breaking out the much, much deserved guillotines. Even in prosecuting a new "cold war", the USG employs a nonsensical deal whose military effectiveness is risible but which feeds the MIC and the paranoid delusions required for a cold war mentality.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Sep 21 2021 19:50 utc | 26

It takes a great deal of education and culture to come to believe that "self-defense" means fucking up the business of peoples on the other side of the planet.

Americans don't do math so they can't read a budget. They don't care so they don't do body counts. And they learn geography from war, as someone said. no wonder the outcome of a US education is piles and piles and piles of dead bodies.

those chickens are coming to roost.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Sep 21 2021 20:07 utc | 27

“The future belongs to those who give their people the ability to breathe free, not those who seek to suffocate their people with an iron hand authoritarianism,” he said. “The authoritarians of the world, they seek to proclaim the end of the age of democracy, but they’re wrong.”

Interestingly, that bit of Biden's "speech" is not mentioned in a report by German government news programme "Tagesschau". Everything else that b cites is covered.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Sep 21 2021 20:13 utc | 28

If we assume for a moment that both the Western bourgeoise and the Chinese Communist Party were instrumental historically in clearing the ground of "obstacles" like the peasantry, artisans, much common land, local cultures and traditions in order to institute a type of top-down capitalism why would you now be rooting for either side?

Posted by: Gulag | Sep 21 2021 20:27 utc | 29

Everyone should look at the shocking images of US cops using horses to chase down and literally whip Haitian refugees. The empire is so dead, and all our analysis has to proceed from that fact.

Posted by: Prof | Sep 21 2021 20:56 utc | 30

I enjoyed listening to that lecture.

Posted by: Steve | Sep 21 2021 21:05 utc | 31

What strategic options can a nation pursue in the geopolitical arena?

A nation has three OPTIONS in the global arena, depending on their motivations, resources, trade balance, capabilities and sovereignty:

– SHAPING the global order. This option is reserved for the Crown/Core of the Empire/world. They get the reserve currency (Free money), and an apparatus to influence and dominate. The U$A has been in this position since 1945. This is very expensive for a nation in the long term.

– REFORM & Reconfigure. A nation with positive trade balance, strong capabilities and good leadership team pursues this option. China, Russia, & EU/Germany/France are in this sphere. The U$A will most likely move to this position because of its mistakes.

– ADAPT to the global order. Not strong, no global institutional strength, weak administration,... Australia, Canada, Japan, Brazil, India, South Africa, Singapore, Vietnam, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Iran... are in this category at present. A nation can remain neutral or join a bloc.

This framework will enable one to understand the geopolitical strategy that a nation is pursuing. It is based on Empire’s book, Power in Uncertain Times. The Dollar Empire analyzed the global situation and its findings were published by Emily Goldman (Deputy Director for Interagency Coordination in the Office of Communication at the U$A Central Command), which clearly identified Russia & China as a major challenge to its global HEGEMONY. She shines good light on the Dollar Empire’s plans and has been accurate since 2011.

Nations would do better by pursuing reforms and reconfiguring their socioeconomic system to be SOVEREIGN and serving their people. To understand a nation, follow its monetary construct/central bank, kleptocrats, economy, sovereignty, guiding principles,...

Which strategic option is your nation pursuing?

Posted by: Max | Sep 21 2021 21:22 utc | 32

Biden and Morrison's Anglo-bubble strokefest continues however... Paul Keating, the last PM Oz had when we could at least pretend to sovereignty, savages the AUKUS deal in today's SMH. He makes useful points very uncomfortable to his former party (ALP): China is not a threat, China is our friend and will happily partner with us for mutual prosperity for as long as we want. The only thing in the way is deep-seated paranoid sinophobia.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 21 2021 21:24 utc | 33

karlof1 @ 12...thank you for the link to your vk post. as i've said before i look forward to purchasing your book. your observations are especially relevant & important imho b/c they reference law & thus helps maintain perspective, which bernays propaganda repeated endlessly does what it was intended to do, thank you for your vigilance @ this time it's extremely important.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Sep 21 2021 21:26 utc | 34

Gulag @29--

You have half the formula correct, the part about the West. Your comment reeks of the sort of reporting Tom Fowdy notes is being done regarding the disposition of the Evergrande Group:

"But let’s be clear: Evergrande is not another Lehman Brothers in the making. One of the reasons why there is such an excessive circus around this is not just because of legitimate fears regarding the fate of this firm, but that in the media discourse of China there is a cult of abject hysteria and a lust for negativity. Western media likes nothing better than to seize on anything remotely bad pertaining to this country, hyping it into excessively dramatic and apocalyptic news....

"It’s a news cycle premised on a 'hoping for the worst' mindset, fueled by a strange mix of orientalist, and plain ideological, bias." [My Emphasis]

In making comparisons with 2008, BigLie Media will not confess the fact that outrageous levels of corruption and criminality were the causes for that financial crisis and that none of that whatsoever's in play in Evergrande's case. I wrote recently that Fowdy understands and as such is a welcome new analytical voice, and here he displays that assessment:

"That does not mean that China’s government will do nothing. Its financial system does not operate in the way those in the West do. All of its major banks are state owned. The government can impose its own controls and rules as it sees fit and simply 'defy economic gravity' – precisely why theses of its collapse have been so frequently wrong. [My Emphasis]

As the gap between fantastical rhetoric and reality continues to widen, it will be even easier to discern why the Eurasianist method works versus the failures occurring throughout the West caused by its Neoliberal adherents. It's Eurasianist because the core idea of an Eurasian spanning trade region aimed at attaining positive results for all its members was first voiced by Nursultan Nazarbayev, at the time Kazakhstan's president, which was immediately adopted by Xi and Putin for their similar visions of continental solidarity and development. Dr. Hudson stresses it's a rivalry between two different political-economic systems and their underlying ideologies, and I've merely echoed his wisdom for many years now.

Fowdy's concluding thoughts show his climb up the learning curve and prepare his readers to expect similar decisions made by China's leaders:

"Going beyond the headlines, China wants to end an economic growth trajectory fueled upon nothing but debt, and that’s what it is doing. Even if by some miracle Evergrande gets out of this mess, Xi Jinping has some tough lessons for it. It’s in his political interest to make the firm feel pain, for the sustainable growth of China as a whole." [My Emphasis]

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2021 21:32 utc | 35

Democratic values? We clearly gave up on those 18 months ago.

Posted by: goldhoarder | Sep 21 2021 21:34 utc | 36

And btw... how are we supposed to breathe free with our mask mandates.

Posted by: goldhoarder | Sep 21 2021 21:36 utc | 37

What happens?

CHN might become an Trade Partner / Employment Location of Choice. Looks like Acts of Dire Corruption are dealt with, so long as that's kept up, they should last for awhile.

They shouldn't be troubled+controlled by Parasite Migranvaders+OpenBordersAdvocacy, SJWokedMobs, Drug Traffickers, Currency Commandeers from Abroad.

The Corruption driving the Anglo-American-ZioMason driven Plunder-Happy Hegemony+Vassals should be the Lesson in Domestic and GeoPolitics for the next few Centuries.

Posted by: IronForge | Sep 21 2021 21:53 utc | 38

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2021 21:32 utc | 35

It is astonishing still to me as an Australian that we can't see that the Eurasian link is not the most natural for us. We are at the terminus of a supply chain linking Indonesia, SE Asia, Chine, the sub-continent, Central Asia, Russia and the ME, Eastern, Central and Western Europe——even Africa if we dare——in one huge arc. That Australia should continue to this day to view its long (or even medium) term economic and political destiny tied to countries thousands of kms across vast oceans only on the basis of archaic infantilism like race and religion is such a disappointment (especially for someone who still is fond of the place). Fowdy is spot on about Orientalism and sinophobia. I for one don't get that kind of terror.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 21 2021 21:57 utc | 39

<>China has successfully suppressed the pandemic<>

What a poor and tasteless joke.

Posted by: Seedee Vee | Sep 21 2021 22:03 utc | 40

I really recommend Paul Keating's op-ed in the Sydney Morning Herald today on the craven posture of Australia in the AUKUS fiasco.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 21 2021 22:08 utc | 41

Patroklos

When I first heard Abbott say we are part of the anglosphere, it instantly brought up visions of Anglo or British empire.
What has occured now I have been worried about ever since I first head Abbott say that. I looked how long ago that was and it appears even before becoming PM he had angloshere on the brain.

This is from back in 2012
https://www.9news.com.au/world/abbott-fixated-with-anglosphere-carr/23dd0daf-27fd-4867-8a6f-3f829c39667c

"Tony Abbott sees Australia being part of the Anglosphere, being comfortable with our long-term friends, the other old dominions, but not looking to the rest of the world," Senator Carr told reporters in New York on Monday.
"If Tony Abbott became prime minister of Australia still talking about the Anglosphere and saying that we shouldn't be talking to the rest of the world, we shouldn't be moving outside our region, it would send a message that Australia had gone back to its colonial origins: we're retreating from Asia, we're retreating from Africa, retreating from Latin America where we've got terrific relationships."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 21 2021 22:12 utc | 42

Nods to karlof1 for a great and accurate summary on the nothing burger of Evergrande.
Here's a great article by Global Times that essentially says the same thing. That Evergrande is a crisis only in western minds. Sort of a wet dream leading the the collapse of China's economy and civil wars

The reality is China's Economy is not anything like that of the west where the Capitalists owns the govts and forces their corrupt politicians to save their "too big to fail" corporations.

This GT article puts the problem into correct perspective. Evergrande's problem is immediate cash flow caused. They have sufficient projects to pay off their short term liabilities which are US$30+ billion due for this year.

Mind you China has US$3 trillion in sovereign funds, and Chinese economy is US$16.55 trillion in size. No Evergrande collapse can even prick China.

Before Evergrande, there were Wanda, Anbang HNA. Look them up. All western type capitalists that Beijing let fall.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 21 2021 22:16 utc | 43

@ peter au... 9-11 and the patriot act was forced down the subservient puppets which includes canada and australia and etc.. since then it has been all downhill.. it coincides with greater surveillance on everyone and an attitude of paranoia that is where all our military spending and etc. is going... completely bonkers and not an honest politician anywhere to call it what it is... all of them weak kneed characters with not a shred of integrity or forthrightness...

Posted by: james | Sep 21 2021 22:16 utc | 44

Oh piss. Here's the Global Times article.

Btw. I live in China for past 8 years, and we moved into our new Evergrande apartment 2 years ago. Great quality in fantastic move in condition. We only needed furniture and electrical stuff. Lovely gardens, and great estate management team.

During the China lockdown of February 2020, I spend 7 weeks walking in the big gardens with my dogs. Sanity preserved.
If I have more money I'd buy another Evergrande apartment.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202109/1234753.shtml

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 21 2021 22:21 utc | 45

Seedee Vee

I live in China and went through 7 weeks of China wife lockdown.

Today most parts of China are mask free.
So what do you know about the real China?
The latest outbreak is in Fujian province and a total of 400 cases!!
No deaths.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 21 2021 22:25 utc | 46

In the West, "democracy" has always been an euphemism for oligarchy (or a very short transition towards it), all the way back to Ancient Greece. I think Prof. Michael Hudson has repeatedly said that the reviled "tyrants" of Ancient Greece were in fact populists who wanted to do something for the general good (like cancelling debts).

Re: Evergrande, I hope the Chinese gov'ment is gonna pop their gigantic housing bubble. To me that would be the ultimate proof that they're definitely not neoliberals.

I think China is gonna be OK as long as it has Russia watching its back. This Russo-Chinese alliance is perhaps the single most important thing in the world right now. I tremble at the thought of waking up one day to learn that they've been separated. This alliance is the only thing standing between us and world domination by Neoliberalism. And by the way, Neoliberalism should really be called by its real name: Neofeudalism.

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Sep 21 2021 22:25 utc | 47

The Patrushev interview is now in English at the Saker:

A chain reaction of chaos. Nikolai Patrushev-about unions and values that are alien to Russia

Favorite quote out of many:

"Plans to violate the territorial integrity of Russia will remain in the offices in which they appeared."

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 21 2021 22:27 utc | 48

james

For a time the politicians, I think the early 90's, were talking about making Australia a "multicultural" society. The way it came across at the time was that rather than immigrants merging, ethnic enclaves would be set up. There was a big pushback to that and we went the opposite way Abbott who rode straight out racism to the top job, so now we have the anglosphere empire types in power. They have also been backed by the anglo deepstate who control the media.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 21 2021 22:31 utc | 49

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Sep 21 2021 20:07 utc | 27

It takes a great deal of education and culture to come to believe that "self-defense" means fucking up the business of peoples on the other side of the planet.
__________________________________________________________

Amen to that!

but don't overlook that:

It isn't just American education and culture that believes like that, American ignorance and boorishness arrives at the same way of thinking

Posted by: jinn | Sep 21 2021 22:34 utc | 50

Karlofi@ 35

On the other hand your comment appears to signify you worship for the rise and triumph of a system of power and technology which people like Louis Mumford once called the megamachine.

Both U.S. and Chinese power appear to operate around global technological networks of staggering power and complexity--both nations utilize undersea cables, orbiting satellites, monitoring devices in our homes and phones, as well as web-connected streets, buildings and appliances monitoring us in real time and selling us what we didn't know we needed.

This American-Chinese mechanism (reflective mirrors of each other) incorporates the internet as its key neurological network which means that there are now few places on earth where we can escape from the noise of state-corporate growth.

These respective deities of progress, growth, ambition and materialism seems to me to now be the purest militaristic, imperial, and technological forms of potential totalitarianism.

Maybe you could specify more specifically your love for the Chinese version and why you don't see it also eventually going the way of the U.S. monolith.

Posted by: Gulag | Sep 21 2021 23:07 utc | 51

Karlof, I would suggest next time some yahoo comes on here and seeks to draw moral equivalence between China and the US [or Russia and the US], just leave it alone.

It saves us from the follow-on drivel that comes after such an invitation. 😼

Posted by: Gordog | Sep 21 2021 23:13 utc | 52

One of the most important reasons China is the new number one is that it does not impose its beliefs on anyone or force anybody to conform to its self declared standards. Every country on the BRI can be a democracy, dictatorship, theocracy, or headchopper monarchy (Saudi Barbaria) as it chooses, China won't say a word, ask it wants is to do mutually beneficial business.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 21 2021 23:27 utc | 53

Grieved @48--

Damn! I just finished putting it up on the open thread and at my VK Space for the curious. Oh well....

Gordog @52--

Yes, they never touch upon ideology because that's the losing play. Even Putin avoids it, but I understand why--he sees it as interfering in domestic affairs, and he's correct. It's how nations act internationally that matters. But those nations having domestic policies that aim first and foremost at uplifting their #1 asset--their Human Capital--will act best internationally, forming friendships and relations more easily that lead to greater interactions, commerce and most importantly--PEACE. Nations that enslave and abuse at home are far more likely to do so abroad, as the historical record shows very well.

Also, many thanks to replies from other barflies and those that have visited my VK Space.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2021 23:36 utc | 54

@ Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 21 2021 23:27 utc | 53

This is thanks to Marxist theory. Ideologies only change and emerge according to the level of the development of the productive forces. If the entire Eurasia prospers economically, it will tend towards socialism.

Posted by: vk | Sep 21 2021 23:43 utc | 55

Not sure if this pointer has come up already, but Alastair Crooke pens a fine piece from yesterday:

That ‘Other’ Reset Unfolding Across West & Central Asia

All of Central Asia is re-setting towards the SCO, EAEU, Russia and China. The former is now ‘lost’ to the U.S.

Posted by: Gordog | Sep 22 2021 0:03 utc | 56

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 21 2021 23:27 utc | 53

One of the most important reasons China is the new number one is that it does not impose its beliefs on anyone or force anybody to conform to its self declared standards. Every country on the BRI can be a democracy, dictatorship, theocracy, or headchopper monarchy (Saudi Barbaria) as it chooses, China won't say a word, ask it wants is to do mutually beneficial business.
___________________________________________________________________________

That is no different than the US. The US doesn't care if a country is democracy, dictatorship, theocracy, or headchopper monarchy as long as it is aligned with the US politically and economically.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 22 2021 0:03 utc | 57

@ Peter AU1 | Sep 21 2021 22:31 utc | 49... now it is just a hate on for china 24-7 and thus a rise in assault and crime against all of the asian community here in b.c. anyway.. some of it thanks the promotion of covid as the chinese virus and etc. from the bimbo leader to the south of us... but our media cbc, is pretty relentless in feeding us the intel agency viewpoint - although they don't tell readers it is coming from the intel agencies... these folks are so fucked in the head, i don't know that there is anything that can be done about that.. naturally a lot of politicians swallow this shit too.. it pisses me off, thus the swear words..

Posted by: james | Sep 22 2021 0:13 utc | 58

It s downright different from that of the US.
They dont feel at ease with the missionary-messianic prospects of the Exceptionalistan.
They have never pretented or used as pretext the ideology of exporting their chinese way of life.
Remember China ,same as Russia, has NEVER had the driving force that keep our western "civilation" moving: individualism. And what was precisely the foundation establishing forever our individual egotism (me first, my rights first)? CLEARLY the Protestant Reform and the French Revolution. The eastern powers cannot even imagine what it was like.

Posted by: augusto | Sep 22 2021 0:20 utc | 59

@ Posted by: jinn | Sep 22 2021 0:03 utc | 57

It's different because those are all capitalist nations. China has to survive in the enemy's field.

Posted by: vk | Sep 22 2021 0:27 utc | 60

The chinese version have never adopted a 'full spectrum dominance' so far.
They might eventually drag everything but that regards the sheer economic weight.
That s where western countries can build up punctual alliances just for a partial economic counterbalance. This is realistic and feasible.
BUT you can stay cool. No other western power or group of nations will dominate the world in the next 500 years. No one, forget.
Let s just pray lest the doomsday environment catastrophe or the the nuclear winter hit us first.

Posted by: augusto | Sep 22 2021 0:28 utc | 61

Guardog @ 52

Thanks for dealing with my arguments by dismissing me as a yahoo!

Posted by: Gulag | Sep 22 2021 0:34 utc | 62

Posted by: jinn | Sep 22 2021 0:03 utc | 57

Seems to me that the US has a big problem with countries that attempt socialism.

Posted by: arby | Sep 22 2021 0:41 utc | 63

@Posted by: Gulag | Sep 22 2021 0:34 utc | 62

Then stop acting and writing like a yahoo. Do a search on karlofi's posts and read them, he has explained himself at great length. He doesn't owe you a lengthy regurgitation.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 22 2021 0:52 utc | 64

Surferket@43

"Nods to karlof1 for a great and accurate summary on the nothing burger of Evergrande."

except it's not just Evergrand, it's the whole sector which is 28% of GDP; and Evergrand is octipal at every stratum of international finance. regardless of how China contains it, what i read below is the biggest Ponzi on earth is blowing up.

https://wolfstreet.com/2021/09/15/what-a-collapse-of-chinas-evergrande-would-mean/

https://wolfstreet.com/2021/09/19/the-wolf-street-report-chinas-crackdown-on-debt-tech-evergrande-sends-frazzled-wall-street-titans-to-china/ (vid. titans @ 25)

..

Posted by: Bogdan |

Posted by: Bogdan | Sep 22 2021 1:01 utc | 65

I like the term “bothsideism” – so in this vein I will play the devil’s advocate and say that the corrupt, decadent, perfidious western democracies are still the magnet for the millions of people seeking better life. How to think this through?
From my personal experience visiting China, from stories I read about China (Pomfret’s “Chinese Lessons”), from close friends who are married to Chinese persons, and from watching the CGTN (mainland China broadcasting service) – I must say that I prefer to live in the USA, “warts and all…”, maybe I will change my mind in a couple of years, who knows? So, I would never learn Mandarin, and would never attempt to emigrate to China. Russia – that is another story.

Posted by: bystander 04 | Sep 22 2021 1:05 utc | 66

james 58 "it pisses me off, thus the swear words.."

To see me children, all making their way in life and raising families, not much of a goal perhaps as compared to owning a mansion and whatever else, but that was the most important thing for me. That I have lived to see them at that stage is good. Now, with this latest move, the government has completely fucked their future. I just hope they can handle the hard times ahead ok. We have set ourselves up as an outpost of anglo empire in an Asian world. The vast bulk of our exports go to those asian countries to the north of us. On top of kicking them in the nuts, our government has earmarked close to a trillion dollars for the war on china. The only thing that will prosper in our economy now is the brothels near the US bases.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 22 2021 1:06 utc | 67

Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.

- Otto von Bismark


For those of us that have been saying that the Cold War is already here, Biden's official denial brings the hope that others will see the truth in Bismark's wise words.

<> <> <> <> <>

As I've pointed out many times at moa, the new Cold War was preceded by Trump's MAGA, which was essentially what Kissinger called for in his WSJ Op-Ed of August 2014 saying that America should look to its former greatness to meet the challenge from Russia and China. It's clear to any student of history that the greatness that he referred to is American leadership in the Cold War that led to victory (after about 40 years).

In that Ope-Ed Kissinger also discussed the potential for spheres of influence to develop. As I recall, he said the West should reject such a development. Thus, we can expect that there will be no iron curtains, and no safe haven from the Cold.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 22 2021 1:07 utc | 68

Jackrabbit @68--

What if they started a cold war and nobody came? The Not-Quite-a-Quad? What about the other 189 nations. The Great Reset Has Failed! Long Live the Alternative Great Reset!

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2021 1:20 utc | 69

Henry Kissinger got lost in Theranos’s dream and joined its board of directors. How did he get fooled big time?

He joined the Financial Empire’s dream. Like Theranos it will go bust! The Empire is out of LUCK!

Does same future await Kissinger as that of Elizabeth Holmes?

Posted by: Max | Sep 22 2021 1:27 utc | 70

Karlofi @54

"They never touch on ideology because that is a losing play."

My ideology consists of the following assumptions: the U.S. exists in a structural situation where our economic system of capitalism and our political system of constitutional democracy is now encased within an unelected military--intelligence (Big Tech and NSA)--Central Bank monolith or megamachine. This edifice is not simply a mechanism for accruing material wealth but in some deadly fashion has become a sacred object in itself which the Chinese have chosen to emulate and try to surpass with their own unique cultural and political twists( primarily a powerful centralized state bureaucratic apparatus, which at this point, the emerging capitalists class does not control).
Of course this type of state-centered capitalism has lead to an accelerating inequality in China which the CCP is now attempting to rein in.

One thing I find fascinating about Mumford is his belief that this megamachine, is, at its foundation a myth. Meaning this megamachine, whether Chinese or American, is a story that promotes a specific set of values like progress, universalism, technologism and scientism.

If enough people believe this story it begins to take external form as happened in both the U.S. and in China.

What is also fascinating to me is that this may mean that the key way to dismantle these respective megamachines is to stop believing the story--to begin to walk away from this machine in both our hearts and minds.

This is my ideological bias--what is yours?


Posted by: Gulag | Sep 22 2021 1:43 utc | 71

Gulag @ 51

Mumford's The Megamachine is one of the most informative works I've ever read. I TOTALLY agree with your warnings. Most people can lay down a nice-looking track as long as the premise is hidden. Once the premise is scrutinized it all looks like what it is: the road to hell (China is doing a nice job paving with great intentions!)

As I see it China is doing the same as all empires (or wannabe empires) has ever done. They're just doing things differently (and with less exposed fangs). China too will face hardships over how to continue to provide the fuel for the fire (growth), and will find that the planet is finite. Only ONE way to go after hitting the peak and that's DOWN: this is the pattern that has proven time and time again for ALL empires, no matter what leader/government/ideology (cannot defy "gravity" - "nature") - read Sir John Glubb's The Fate of Empires (one of the other great informative works).

Posted by: Seer | Sep 22 2021 1:54 utc | 72

Seer 72

There's no money in trying to bleed poverty stricken nations. Far more money in raising them out of poverty and the resulting trade. Something the anglosphere does not understand.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 22 2021 2:00 utc | 73

If Chinese leaders spoke and acted as arrogantly as America's do, then I'd disrespect them, but not nearly as much as I loathe America's leaders, because China's leaders don't behave nearly as badly as America's leaders do. They don't speak nearly as badly as America's leaders do, and they don't act even nearly as badly as America's do.

Posted by: Eric Zuesse | Sep 22 2021 2:01 utc | 74

Seer

China is and always has been a trading nation. Its trade routs - the silk roads have existed from the earliest recorded history. Through to Persia Chinese good went from Persia through to Mediterranean Europe, down to the northern shores of Australia long before Europeans 'discovered' the place.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 22 2021 2:05 utc | 75

@69 karlof1 - "What if they started a cold war and nobody came?"

That's exactly the dynamic isn't it? The world is too busy living real life to care about western fantasy any longer.

Colonialism has died, although its tendrils take a long time to lose their grip. But the point is that it will not be replaced by anything. Plundering greed will be replaced by non-possessiveness, otherwise known as contentment.

China will rule the world through soft power, underlain with steel and concrete. Actually, the same as the US did, by mesmerizing the entire world with its pop culture and its easy way of building things.

Where the US brought a fraught individualism that was attractively cool, but which hasn't matured well, China will bring a maturity that will beguile with an invisible perfection that has no characteristics. This will be the new cool.

Taoism will sweep all before it by doing nothing, attracting all into itself by reaching for nothing, winning all by desiring nothing. It's time to reverse the old ways of the west, which were always the true ways pulled inside out. China will pull them back, outside in.

Describing this may seem like non-speak - sorry to the literalists, alas - but even so it will happen, inexorably.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 22 2021 2:06 utc | 76

Arby said:

Seems to me that the US has a big problem with countries that attempt socialism.
___________________________________________________________

That's seems much closer to correct to me. Its clearly just BS that the US cares about whether a country is a democracy, dictatorship, theocracy, or headchopper monarchy

Posted by: jinn | Sep 22 2021 2:07 utc | 77

Arby said:

Seems to me that the US has a big problem with countries that attempt socialism.
___________________________________________________________

That's seems much closer to correct to me. Its clearly just BS that the US cares about whether a country is a democracy, dictatorship, theocracy, or headchopper monarchy
Posted by: jinn | Sep 22 2021 2:07 utc | 77

More like the US has problems with any country where their financial dominance are undermined or rendered irrelevant and thus they unable to put under control.

Posted by: Lucci | Sep 22 2021 2:12 utc | 78

I already believe China is already number one, no? It's just undervaluing its own GDP in order to avoid attention.

But I assume it will be the same as it is now, a lot of denial from westerners.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 22 2021 2:20 utc | 79

Posted by: vk | Sep 21 2021 23:43 utc | 55:

This is thanks to Marxist theory.

LOL! That's too far a stretch. There were non-aggressive cultures in history who spread their cultures and modus vivendi far and wide long before Marx took refuge in a London library to grow his beard. Athens never pushed its civilization to Asia Minor nor Sicily/Rome; Persians never twisted anyone's arm; ancient Chinese as far back as the Shang period had its language and craftsmanship spread to as far away as south of the Yangtze River, Qinghai Plateau, or the Manchu/Korean peninsula, let alone the Tang Dynasty spread of its language and political system.

Come to think of it, it seems only the Christian and Muslim civilizations exhibit the characteristics of conquer and control--my way or the highway, you slaves!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Sep 22 2021 2:24 utc | 80

@Posted by: Smith | Sep 22 2021 2:20 utc | 79

On purchasing power parity terms, China has been number one by GDP since 2013.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 22 2021 2:26 utc | 81

@ Oriental Voice

That's a bit chauvinism, no? I don't think it's debatable that modern chinese (and vietnamese) own its success to Marxist economics and socio-political theory. Confucianism has failed both during the colonialism era.
China also engaged in imperialism and colonialism during its Confucianism era, that's how it grows so big in the first place.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 22 2021 2:40 utc | 82

Oriental Voice

I think mongols had their day in the sun. Vast empire stretching across to the European west. But the religions of the hebrew prophets have been bad news.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 22 2021 2:46 utc | 83

thanks b, and great comments above on mahbubani. I would add that his take ia even more interesting when contextualized in terms of sovereignty for small and middle powers, such as the five million population city state of Singapore.

Singapore's skills in diplomacy and realistic foreign policy in navigating a third way is admirable and serves as a model for others in a unipolar worls that has crumbled into a manically "bipolar" new cold war.

reflecting the longstanding competence of Singapore's diplomatic core is this comment by its foreign minister:
"almost toward the bottom, it finally admits:

Singapore Foreign Minister Vivian Balakrishnan said in a recent interview that Singapore will “be useful but we will not be made use of” in its relations with both countries (US and China), and the nation’s prime minister previously warned the US against pursuing an aggressive approach to China.

https://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2021/09/us-singapore-relations-being-of-use-vs.html?m=1

aside from the nice turn of phrase, to "be useful" is ultimately to serve its own national interests instead of serving any hegemon, to responsively adapt to the realities of great power competition and to see the opportunities therein (and not simply as a set of impositions bearing down on them). Australia should take note if it ever possesses its own pen.

as for mahbubani, he is very good at communicating with American audiences. he knows them well. but that also means he feeds them all the feel-good keywords and trite detritus they so need. that makes his speeches require some decoding but it is also a good study in how to communicate with imperialists. a skill that many countries will have to better hone in the years to come. the US is imprisoned in its ancien regime mentality. getting them to listen will be a challenge.

Posted by: Mastameta | Sep 22 2021 2:56 utc | 84

in contrast to Singapore’s diplomatic core, the US state department talent had been further gutted by ex Exxon CEO rex tillerson at the start of the trump term and then by pompous pompeo. the state dept is just another room in the Pentagon now. an exaggeration but not far from the truth.

Posted by: Mastameta | Sep 22 2021 3:03 utc | 85

karlof1 @Sep22 1:20 #69

You can dismiss the Empire all you want but I think it's clear to everyone that it is not rolling over but taking steps to counter their perceived adversaries.

Just because USA and its allies don't publicly acknowledge the new Cold War doesn't mean that it's not going on: propaganda, arms race, sanctions and trade war, diplomatic isolation, proxy war, etc. We talk about these things at moa everyday. They are used against Russia, China, and Iran in different degrees. But we are headed toward their full application to each of them very soon.

The new Cold War didn't just happen. It was planned. IMO it was planned and/or put into action as soon as Russia demonstrated that it had the will to oppose USA (initially in Syria and Ukraine).

The pretense that there is no conflict always works to the benefit of the aggressor.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 22 2021 3:08 utc | 86

What people especially Americans need to realize is that American politicians no longer talk to people in other countries. When Joe Biden goes and talks at the UN or Pompeo goes to North Korea and does his Dirty Harry act they aren't talking to the UN diplomats or to KJU they are talking to their political base in the US. Americans have absolutely no understanding of how to do diplomacy.

Posted by: BraveNewWorld | Sep 22 2021 4:08 utc | 87

Everyday we heard gringo whine about the jews, its all jew's wars, its Israel's wars....even when they fantasize about busting the threegorgesdam, nuking China, inflicting another century of humiliation to the Chinese.
I dont make this shit up, heard it all in the forums.

Gotta hand it to the Aussies, at least those thinking ones.
They dont beat about the bush.

Anxious white men look to bonds of ‘blood and history’ in AUKUS

https://johnmenadue.com/anxious-white-men-look-to-bonds-of-blood-and-history-in-aukus/


Posted by: denk | Sep 22 2021 4:10 utc | 88

@ Posted by: Oriental Voice | Sep 22 2021 2:24 utc | 80

It's literally written in almost all the CPC's documents that it is a Marxist-Leninist party, and that its philosophy is Marxism.

What else does the CPC need to do to convince you?

Besides, the Confucianism theory doesn't make any sense. Both Japan and South Korea (and Taiwan, and Hong Kong...) are also Confucian, indeed even more Confucian than China, and are as capitalist as any other Western nation.

Posted by: vk | Sep 22 2021 4:13 utc | 89

Smith @82:

I don't know about what underpins Vietnam's economic success, but I disagree that China's success was due to dogmatic adherence to Marxism. Actually, Deng Xiaoping's reform was based on the recognition that Marxism way of production organization led to disincentive, and thus economic lethargy.

However, Marxist spirit was very much alive and well in China. Scientific Marxism maintains that truth is derived from practices and outcomes. If the commune mode of production dis-incentivize, then Marxism requires changes to that mode to add incentives. China did. And China called this Socialism with Chinese characteristics. In actuality, China faithfully adhered to Marx's spirit of scientific dialecticism but not the economic model Marx suggested. I would certainly consider China's leadership as being Marxist. My comments on vk's post was only to poke fun on his Marxist dogmatism. But then my comment wasn't related to economics at all; it was about China's pledge of non-interference into other nation's internal affairs.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Sep 22 2021 4:16 utc | 90

Peter AU1 @ 75

It's not a bash of China. It's a bash of another form of how to conduct perpetual growth on a finite planet.

ALL WARS ARE ABOUT RESOURCES. PERIOD.

ALL EMPIRES COLLAPSE. They collapse because they cannot maintain growth. Equal trade is all fine and dandy, but at some point someone runs out of their equal half of the deal (because resources are ultimately limited by a finite planet) and then things become problematic. Watch tensions over water increase as we head further into the future; this will make all other resource concerns small by comparison.

https://waterandconflict.web.unc.edu/israel-palestine-and-shared-aquifers/

Posted by: Seer | Sep 22 2021 4:22 utc | 91

@ Posted by: Bogdan | Sep 22 2021 1:01 utc | 65

The Evergrande collapse is completely different from 2008. Lehman Brothers was a bank, while Evergrande is not - that makes all the difference in the world.

Posted by: vk | Sep 22 2021 4:22 utc | 92

denk
Fucking british lords and young men of capital. Barcaldine shearers strike was the shitkickers that peddled the long distances to and between squatters runs vs the men of capital that owned the squatters runs. Foundation of labour vs libral in oz. Gone now replaced by the duopoly.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 22 2021 4:23 utc | 93

Bogdan

I live in China and I live in an Evergrande apartment. Just now passed new estates that have just handed their keys over to their new owners.
Entering my Evergrande gates there was no signs of protesters.
Even on tv there was nothing on Evergrande. It's a blimp.
You can believe all you want in the Room Gloom China is dying if that makes you happy, over the life and experiences of a non China citizen living in China.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 22 2021 4:29 utc | 94

@ Oriental Voice

Well, I don't with that, since I confirm Deng Xiaoping to be traitor to Marxism, and plays a role in the capitalizing/financializing of China, that's why the current Chinese president, Xi Jinping, is cleaning up a lot of bad deeds left behind by Deng.
This is seen in Alibaba, Tencent and Evergrande, relics of the works of Deng, all exploitative corporations.
But now that China is back on track with Marxism, it should be good to go.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 22 2021 4:32 utc | 95

vk@89:

Americans call their nation a democracy, do you think it's a democracy??? Biden says America is back, do you think America is back???

CPC don't need to do anything to convince me of nothing. I always form my own opinions based on my own observations. I suggest that you do less reading of books, and do more thinking of what you have already read. That way, you'll learn and know more.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Sep 22 2021 4:34 utc | 96

Peter Au 93

Not all white men are born equal tho.
The Russians have long evolved from that ENA atrocity.
The Serbs, Hungarians, even tiny Finland have the backbone to defy pax murikka

iTS FUKUS, ring leaders of the old ENA, the five liars, the QUAD and NOW....FUKUSA.

this is more like it....
Anxious white men anglo saxon look to bonds of ‘blood and history’ in AUKUS FUKUSA,

Posted by: denk | Sep 22 2021 4:40 utc | 97

Smith 95

China moved into the whitey world and in some ways played US for a fool. A geopolitical world of musical chairs with no rules. US was out to screw China and China screwed them. Vietnam didn't do to bad either booting the US out.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 22 2021 4:43 utc | 98

@ Peter AU1

If that's true, good, all warfare is based on deception, said by Sun Tzu.
I'm just happy all the Dengist billionaire bigwits are either being put in jail or executed. That's the price they paid for following the US's carrot back in the 70s-00s.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 22 2021 4:45 utc | 99

Bogdan

Here's more news you don't see in MSM.
Why should the Chinese govt care what happens to Evergrande when they were playing a shell game with their foreign strategic investors?

Either Evergrande swim, or it sinks. After which the regulators move in and dispose of the carcass. Those foreign investors will be crying more than the Chinese investors.

https://archive.is/ltYBI

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 22 2021 4:52 utc | 100

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