Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 25, 2021

The Release Of Meng Wanzhou's Is A Small But Decisive Victory For China

The U.S. has given in to the Chinese demand to end its hostage holding of Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou:

A plane believed to be carrying Chinese tech executive Meng Wanzhou took off from the Vancouver airport on Friday, marking a new stage in a legal saga that ensnared Canada — and two of its citizens — in a dispute between the U.S. and Chinese governments.

A B.C. court decided on Friday that the extradition case against Meng would be dropped after the Huawei chief financial officer reached a deferred prosecution agreement with the U.S. government.

Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig, the two Canadian citizens who were detained in China just days after Meng's arrest in Vancouver, are now on their way back Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau confirmed on Friday evening.

The U.S. had accused Meng Wanzhou of misleading the opium dealer bank HSBC about Huawei's relation with a local entity in Iran. This, the U.S. claimed, had led to breach by HSBC of its unilateral sanctions against Iran.

This was a constructed crime with the only evidence being some wording on one page of a longer power point slideshow which Meng Wanzhou surely had not edited herself.

The deferred prosecution agreement seems to admit that:

As part of her arrangement with U.S. prosecutors, Meng pleaded not guilty in a court Friday to multiple fraud charges.

The Huawei chief financial officer entered the plea during a virtual appearance in a New York courtroom. She was charged with bank fraud, wire fraud and conspiracies to commit bank and wire fraud more than two and a half years ago.
The agreed statement of facts from Friday's U.S. court appearance said that Meng told a global financial institution that a company operating in Iran in violation of U.S. sanctions was a "local partner" of Huawei when in fact it was a subsidiary of Huawei.

The deferred prosecution agreement does not included any admission of wrongdoing, just an agreement on the facts.

The whole case was constructed and the arrest arranged by John Bolton when he was National Security Advisor under then President Donald Trump:

The Trudeau adviser said Mr. Bolton and other like-minded officials in the U.S. government were well aware of the significance of the arrest they were asking Canada to make. The adviser and a senior national-security official say they are convinced the U.S. picked Canada to arrest Ms. Meng – and did so in a last-minute rush – because they believed the Justice Department and the RCMP would honour the extradition request.

Trump then used Meng Wanzhou as bargaining chip in his trade fight with China:

Trump has linked resolution of the U.S. government’s dealings with Huawei to a potential trade agreement with China. He has said he would consider Huawei’s role in a trade deal at the final stage of negotiations, the court application says.
“Prejudice to the fairness of these proceedings is made out by the president’s repeated assertions that (Meng’s) liberty is effectively a bargaining chip in what he sees as the biggest trade deal ever.”

The case gave Canada a lot of headache as China had arrested two of its spies just days after Canada had followed the U.S. request to arrest Meng Wanzhou. Canada has denied that Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig were spying for its services. However, Canada's main spy agency, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, welcomed the release of its boys:


During a July visit to China U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman had been given two lists of issues that China demanded to be solved before it was willing to cooperate further with the U.S.:

In the List of U.S. Wrongdoings that Must Stop, China urged the United States to unconditionally revoke the visa restrictions over Communist Party of China (CPC) members and their families, revoke sanctions on Chinese leaders, officials and government agencies, and remove visa restrictions on Chinese students.

China also urged the United States to stop suppressing Chinese enterprises, stop harassing Chinese students, stop suppressing the Confucius Institutes, revoke the registration of Chinese media outlets as "foreign agents" or "foreign missions", and revoke the extradition request for Meng Wanzhou.

China sees the end of the Meng Wanzhou issue as a victory:

The high-profile case of Meng, which has become a political dilemma significantly affecting the global geopolitical landscape, has been settled through both legal channels and political wrestling, experts said, noting that China, the US and Canada have seen the best scenario with much compromise made by the Biden administration in resolving the matter. It also helped pave the way for the positive interaction between the world's largest economies in the near future amid strained China-US relations.

It was also one mistake of the US administration that has been corrected in line with the request of China, as China put forward two lists to the US during the bilateral talks in Tianjin in July, including the List of US Wrongdoings that Must Stop which urged the US to release Meng, showing that Beijing's US policies began taking effect and remaining mistakes of the US have to be corrected.

Commentator Pepe Escobar however, does not believe that the release of Meng Wanzhou will change much if anything:

Pepe Escobar @RealPepeEscobar - 11:49 UTC · Sep 25, 2021

- political kidnapping masked as criminal prosecution
- part of the demonization of Huawei
- near 3-year illegal detention
- fake charges
- “Justice” Dept. had to drop extradition request
- Hybrid War continues

While I agree that U.S. aggression against China will continue I do see this as a Chinese victory. China has disabled one of the weapons that U.S. had used against it. From now on no country will risk to follow a U.S. requests to arrest a Chinese citizen:

The swiftness of the apparent deal also stands as a warning to leaders in other countries that the Chinese government can be boldly transactional with foreign nationals, said Donald C. Clarke, a law professor specializing in China at George Washington University’s Law School.

“They’re not even making a pretense of a pretense that this was anything but a straight hostage situation,” he said of the two Canadians, who stood trial on spying charges. Mr. Spavor was sentenced last month to 11 years in prison, and Mr. Kovrig was waiting for a verdict in his case after trial in March.

“In a sense, China has strengthened its bargaining position in future negotiations like this,” Professor Clarke said. “They’re saying, if you give them what they want, they will deliver as agreed.”

The U.S. had, via Canada, taken Meng Wanzhou as a hostage. China replicated that by taking two Canadian citizens as hostages, thereby putting the pressure on the weaker power involved. It also stopped imports of Canadian canola and pork. No government will want to repeat the experience of the Canadian one.

It worked and the people of Chinese are happy with the result:

The sentiment of patriotism prevailed at the scene. After the short speech, Meng waved to the crowds holding Chinese flags to welcome her at the airport, with a big smile, while singing a song for the motherland together with people at the scene.

People were still singing after Meng rode the bus to undergo epidemic prevention inspection at the request of Chinese Customs.

Groups of people, who wore protective suits, held flowers and welcome banners as they waited on the parking apron at the airport, as Chinese port cities have adopted strict epidemic prevention measures against COVID-19. Local media reports said earlier that Meng was expected to follow the 14 plus 7 days of quarantine following her arrival.

So this is indeed a victory but in a minor battle and in a war that is likely to see much bigger ones.

Posted by b on September 25, 2021 at 17:04 UTC | Permalink

next page »

I agree with Pepe nothing will change for the better as long as Amerika has puppets like Canada and is run by Amerikas own neo-conns.

Posted by: jo6pac | Sep 25 2021 17:11 utc | 1

Anything on HSBC?

Posted by: IronForge | Sep 25 2021 17:15 utc | 2

[Repost from the Open Thread]

On journey home, Meng says "without strong motherland, no freedom today"

Now, imagine if the Chinese had behave like a bunch of demure center-leftists.

What do you think would happen?

Most likely, they would be uselessly fighting on the American and Canadian courts as we speak, and Meng would probably rot for at least some 15 years in prison.

Luckily, the Chinese are communists, so they don't delve into bullshit. They saw her prison for what it really was - a political stunt - and counter-attacked accordingly, by arresting two of Canada's ruling elite (i.e. the Canadian capitalist class) members.

Posted by: vk | Sep 25 2021 17:16 utc | 3

Th West has no evidence and never will. Once the West throws out their bogus evidence - the international dialogue will be started - and the international countries that are not puppets will be able to nail the West with everything from war crimes to crimes against humanity, assassinations, and everything else under the sun. The West will keep up the projectionist BS because that is all they have.
Hard to believe that all those tens of thousands of Americans that work for the government or have in the past - can watch or help in the destruction of their country.

Posted by: GMC | Sep 25 2021 17:20 utc | 4

How did China know that the two Canadians were spies? Could it be that CIA incompetence exposed them and others? Seems very likely.

Posted by: Tel | Sep 25 2021 17:26 utc | 5

It is rather tone-deaf - or pure arrogance - that the Canadian spook agency would welcome home their "boys", after all of the denials of nefarious activities by their alleged government superiors. I'd find it amusing if I had consumed a couple of pints. So set up the bar, b. I need a laugh these days.

Posted by: Paul Spencer | Sep 25 2021 17:37 utc | 6

This is excerpt from CGTN
“ French writer exposes U.S. global hegemony
Updated 22:59, 25-Sep-2021
The number of companies and entrepreneurs that have fallen victim to the U.S. global hegemony is unknown but Marc Lassus, founder of Gemplus, a manufacturer of smart cards (including SIM cards) is one of them.

After witnessing the Frenchman's business making waves with users in the billions, the U.S. took control of the company and drove Lassus away, Chinese newspaper the Global Times has reported. Lassus said that their goal was, through the CIA and NSA, to spy on the whole world.

Lassus has told his story in a recently published book, "The Chip Trap." During an interview with the Global Times, he shared his thoughts on Canada's arrest of Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou at the request of the United States.

"Meng Wanzhou's detention in Canada is just a pure scandal, as well as their request for extradition to the U.S," he said.

Huawei has a very significant technological advantage in 5G infrastructure and to some extent in fiber optics, their presence in Africa is also very strong and it is too late to beat them, Lassus said. Therefore, the U.S. used brutal and "cowboy" approaches to hinder Huawei's business expansion.

He added that Meng's case reminded him of his own experience. He was almost arrested on similar, trumped-up "charges" during a private trip to Cuba but he miraculously escaped imprisonment in the U.S.

"The move from the Trump administration to Biden's will not change much the U.S. policies," he noted.

He also mentioned that the U.S. claim that it values free markets is "pure hypocrisy." They use any possible means to suppress other countries' high-tech companies from being successful in international markets, such as Huawei, ZTE and places pressure on chip manufacturers such as Samsung.

Lassus said he was optimistic about the cooperation between China and Europe, which is entering into a new era with ties becoming more strategic, more complex but more promising.

"It is very clear now China should put more effort and investment than ever to develop key technologies in the semiconductor industry such as key equipment, materials and design tools, and so on. Especially when the U.S. is trying to ban any exchange between world-leading companies and China," he said.

The long arm of U.S. jurisdiction dates backs to over a decade ago when the world's biggest power felt threatened by the rapid ascent of other economies. Now the possibility of losing technological advantage haunts Washington, which has resorted to bending the law to gain a competitive edge. Bribery, fraud, and violating sanctions are commonly used pretexts for the U.S. to strike down any individual, entity or country that it feels threatened by.

Frederic Pierucci, an executive of Alstom, a French power and transportation conglomerate, was arrested by the FBI when his plane arrived at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport on April 14, 2013. He was charged with bribing Indonesian officials to win a power plant contract.

Coincidentally or not, the arrest of Pierucci, then president of the French power titan's boiler subsidiary, ran parallel to the largest business acquisition by the American General Electric (GE) of its French rival Alstom's energy business.

Lassus said it was only after January 2019 when Frederic Pierucci published his book "Le Piege Americain," also known as "The American Trap," that he felt free, credible, and publicly protected to come out with his story.

"Pierucci's book relates the U.S. aggression, through General Electric, to take control of ALSTOM, a French company. Pierucci has been put for two years in jail in the US! A real scandal," Lassus said.

Posted by: Gandalf | Sep 25 2021 17:46 utc | 7

repost from open thread
re: 2 Michaels, background info

Posted by: awaiting approval | Sep 25 2021 17:57 utc | 8

In an alternate universe

1. Canada would release Ms. Wang without waiting for the permission of US prosecutors. Surely, Canadians were very slow in extraditing her, how many years and people do they need up north to replace a light bulb? BTW, how they are renaming the country from New Trumpland? Grand Duchy of Biden with Ottawa renamed Biden Biden?

2. Australia would find two British spies and give them THE SAME TREATMENT as Assange gets. Ms. Wang may count her blessings that she could be detained in a home. Canadian spies were moved to more comfortable prison after initial interrogations.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 25 2021 18:10 utc | 9

Two things I would like to add here.
One, this is embarrassing as a Canadian. We don't have ANY politician who saw through this. NONE. Many internationalist Canadians saw through this within the first 3-7 days, but none were in government, and none were even (audible) in Parliament. This is utter international relations incompetence. As we learned from the immigration lawyers for the defense, this case was rigged from the very start - the arrest should not have happened; the signs for a different than advertised goal by the FBI were overt; the RCMP should not have been allowed to enter into it with the border guard; the Prime Minister and Justice Minister should have been reachable instead of 'on their weekend';etc... Beyond that, if the President of the USA then makes a statement politicizing the arrest, the Prime Minister of Canada has no right to hide behind "Executive vs Justice" power as the extradition agreement explicitly states that the PM can intervene through the Justice Minister to avert political abuses of the extradition agreement. So this is totally on Trudeau's incompetence and cowardice.
Two, this US subversion of Huawei will not work because B has understated, hugely, the Chinese distance created from the stone-age USA in current day digital progress. I was shocked as a Canadian European, coming into Chicago and Ohio in 2000 and discovering how far behind the USA was in simcard and digital technology. It caught up, but barely. Now, China is too far ahead and is running much faster than the US is or has the capacity to. China has already won - this Huawei case is just a little side cake - because they have all the infrastructure and are way beyond 5G - they are building the next universe and America can't even have the data points to dream about it.

Posted by: Josh Vanhee | Sep 25 2021 18:17 utc | 10

Posted by: awaiting approval | Sep 25 2021 17:57 utc | 8

Actual spies are customarily sentenced to be in a penitentiary "till they die or until the next spy exchange".

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 25 2021 18:28 utc | 11

In Canada’s defence — the authorities here were dealing with John Bolton, a known a**h@le who believes in breaking eggs to make omelettes. Interviews with Canadian ultra political insider, Peter Donolo on BNN Bloomberg (just BNN back then maybe?) expressed concern about who would replace the just fired National Security Advisor. So Canada’s political class protested through the media (which is how you gotta do it with the neocons, just ask Russia) about John Bolton’s appointment. Somewhere I picked up that Canada was threatened with having US troops at the Vancouver airport if Canada refused to act in the interests of American security. The Michaels are 5th columnists. They don’t work for CSIS, Canada, the Canadian political class or any other Canadian national interest or institution.Their arrest was quite possibly arranged behind-the-scenes between China and Canada to get Bolton fired as well as the other results b mentions. And a verty important piece of this is the Canadian Ambassador to China, Dominic Barton. Check out this man’s resume. His appointment could have been at the request of China, quite possibly, another Canadian concession (although Trudeau wanted him in that role previously, but he declined).

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Sep 25 2021 18:32 utc | 12

@Posted by: Josh Vanhee | Sep 25 2021 18:17 utc | 10

Sadly so true, started with Trudeau Sr's surrender to the financiers as he stopped the Bank of Canada directly financing government spending - much better to the borrow Canada's own money from the rich and pay interest to them. Then the late 1980s with NAFTA and the insane (or planned) high interest rate policies of the Bank of Canada at the beginning of the 1990s that enriched the wealthy and massively and needlessly increased the level of government debt (used then as the excuse to slash federal health spending) and increased unemployment (to help crush the private labour unions). Then allowing the banks to buy up all the independent trusts and brokerages in the 1990s.

Once all this was achieved of course, then the economic screws could be loosened as the dominance and enrichment of the elites had been fully arranged. Then add mass immigration to enrich the landholders, builders, lawyers, banks etc. (the FIRE sector) while keeping a lid on worker compensation and rights.

Its certainly not the Canada I emigrated to. The US is significantly worse of course, but perhaps just a prediction of Canada's future.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 25 2021 18:50 utc | 13

@Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Sep 25 2021 18:32 utc | 12

No, Canada is the US's poodle and does what it is told - nothing more.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 25 2021 18:53 utc | 14

So was it Trump doing the bidding of the Electronics corporations, or was Trump's administration (Bolton et al) doing it so that US Electronic Corporations could get an advantage?

The only reason it matters is that Biden could be forced (or paid) to do the same thing again later on.

Gandalf | Sep 25 2021 17:46 utc | 7

....And so we come to AUKUS, in a long line of cutting out the French (or anyone) for the the benefit of US productions.

Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 25 2021 18:54 utc | 15

Yes, if there was any political independence of a Biden regime they would have undone the Bolton Project (good reporting) and unconditionally rejoined the JCPOA with Iran. "Leftists" are now left crying on the floor of Congress as they re-arm Israel's Iron Dome to the tune of a cool billion dollars. Pathetic.

Never did understand the strategy to go to war with China when they own the supply chain short hairs. The only thing Empire knows is violence.

Posted by: gottlieb | Sep 25 2021 18:59 utc | 16

The Meng affair should probably be seen in terms of US pressure to ban Huawei's 5G technology. At the time of her arrest Canada was holding out on an outright ban (Australia and NZ had already capitulated) and Trump/Bolton were turning up the screws.

Posted by: dh | Sep 25 2021 19:13 utc | 17

The politicized nature of this case was discussed in the New York Times shortly after Meng’s detention:

“…court filings in Canada and interviews with people familiar with the Huawei investigation show that the events leading to her arrest were set in motion years ago.

They grew out of an Obama administration national security investigation into Chinese companies — including Huawei — that act as extensions of the country’s government, according to the people familiar with the investigation. The focus only recently shifted to whether Huawei, and specifically Ms. Meng, deceived HSBC and other banks to get them to keep facilitating business in Iran. Former federal prosecutors said pursuing Ms. Meng, 46, for alleged bank fraud proved to be a better line of attack than trying to build a case on national security grounds…

But criminally charging Huawei or its executives for espionage or other security crimes was not likely to be simple. Former federal prosecutors said doing so often risked exposing the sources of confidential information. As a result, they said, prosecutors often look to bring more conventional cases involving crimes such as bank fraud…

This summer, the prosecutors decided to file criminal charges against Ms. Meng — fulfilling their yearslong goal of going after Huawei executives for allegedly acting as an extension of the Chinese government.
(“How a National Security Investigation of Huawei Set Off an International Incident” Dec 14, 2018)

Posted by: jayc | Sep 25 2021 19:19 utc | 18

The arrest of Meng Wanzhous was part of the Trump (lets see if we can bully folks) approach to geo-politics by Might-Makes-Right empire.

Nothing more

Nothing less

It looks like that is not working out as many back steps does it take to turn into a retreat?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2021 19:28 utc | 19

Albeit deceitful, the Canadian government’s messaging on these events has been highly successful. Most Canadians had been convinced that Meng’s detention was based on sober objective issues of law, and that the “two Michaels” had been subject to a capricious, arbitrary, and entirely bogus persecution. With rare exceptions, I have not talked to a single person who feels otherwise.

There is a very vocal China Hawk contingent in the Canadian political and media spheres who fully supported the extradition proceedings and in turn call repeatedly for aggressive anti-China posturing on the level of Australia. Those who have urged otherwise have been rapidly shouted down and slandered as foreign agents. Although Canada has escaped the utter disaster that would have followed actually handing Meng over to the Americans, it seems the country is in full trajectory towards an active relentless hostility towards China, guided by intellects who have not progressed beyond the sort of anti-Communist phobias last seen in the 1950s/60s.

Posted by: jayc | Sep 25 2021 19:35 utc | 20

Anyone knows the video where some scholar says that CIA HUMINT problems are because of American fame seeking culture?

Posted by: 2cents | Sep 25 2021 19:37 utc | 21

BTW, here's an interesting note (not by me) on how the flight route that was used to bring Meng back to China (Google Translated from Russian):

"And by the way, about the small details of today's event, the evacuation of Meng Wangzhou from Canadian captivity.

Look how they dragged her from Vancouver to China, you can shoot an action movie (I think the Chinese will easily shoot it).

1. Vancouver is close to the United States, so the board briskly went along the line "as far away as possible from the main territory of the United States and from Alaska" vertically upward, aiming directly at the North Pole.

2. Over the Arctic, he made the shortest possible route to the Russian air defense zone and went further south through Siberia and Mongolia.

3. The standard version of the route (see the second picture), through the Pacific Ocean, where the American control points and, in general, there are enough opportunities to do something bad, was not used, although it was announced in advance that this is how Air China would fly back.

On the question of when they soberly assess the situation and understand that agreements with Canada and international law are one thing, but the Arctic region, where the Northern Sea Route is, is completely different and, somehow, under the wing of Shoigu and friends, it is calmer and safer."

Original post with pictures:

Posted by: Joker_vD | Sep 25 2021 19:53 utc | 22

The Meng Wanzhou saga is a tragic turn of geoplitical event for Canada. Prior to this incident, Canada was held in favorable light in China, both among the masses and within the government hierarchy. Even though, after Chretien, Canada began to toe Empire's line of China containment, relationships between the two nations were mostly amicable. PMs Martin and Harper piqued China on Tibet/Xinjiang and human right issues from time to time, but mostly lowkey and perfunctorily so. Nothing serious. Justin Trudeau's father was actually held in high regard by Chinese both in and out of government.

There was the anecdote that after Deng Xiaoping's was restored to office, he looked into seeking more advanced medical treatment for his eldest son who was crippled by falling from a dormitory window at beijing University during the Cultural Revolution, at McGill University Hospital. After learning that it would cost a quarter million Canadian $$, Deng quietly withdrew the inquiry. Pierre Trudeau was curious and sought to find out why. When he learned that Deng could not afford that amount of money, he was flabbergasted that the top leader of a huge nation cannot afford such a sum. He asked McGill to proceed and paid the fees himself without telling anyone else. China thought at first McGill did it for free, only to find out later. For this the Deng family publicly expressed gratitude. Good will was established. Minor irritations during the Martin and Harper administrations were no deterent. But Justin came to power and busted the good will to pieces.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Sep 25 2021 20:01 utc | 23

Naughty China citizen Meng was charged with breaking a US law.

US Justice (hah) Dept, Jan 28, 2019
Meng is charged with bank fraud, wire fraud, and conspiracies to commit bank and wire fraud.
“As charged in the indictment, Huawei and its Chief Financial Officer broke U.S. law and have engaged in a fraudulent financial scheme that is detrimental to the security of the United States,” said Secretary Nielsen. “They willfully conducted millions of dollars in transactions that were in direct violation of the Iranian Transactions and Sanctions Regulations, and such behavior will not be tolerated." . . .here

The US hasn't given up trying to convince China citizens to obey US laws.
US Justice (hah) Dept, Sep 24, 2021
Meng Wanzhou, CFO of Huawei Technologies, admitted today that she failed to tell the truth about Huawei’s operations in Iran, and as a result the financial institution continued to do business with Huawei in violation of U.S. law. Our prosecution team continues to prepare for trial against Huawei, and we look forward to proving our case against the company in court.” . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 25 2021 20:03 utc | 24

China supported Meng Wanzhou and eventually got her released.

Who will support Julian Assange?

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 25 2021 20:11 utc | 25

Dan Bacon @24

Welcome to the Rules-Based Order. The US makes the rules, and the world follows. This is what it means to be The World's Policeman.

Everyone in the world pays the US taxes (via mandatory use of USD for energy) and no one gets any representation.

Posted by: Arfur Mo | Sep 25 2021 20:20 utc | 26

Ms Meng ‘the Merciless’ was monstered by ‘(inter)National Interests’.

Who the fuck have the US the right to arrest people in foreign countries? For breaking the unilateral US sanction on another country?? That is not simple Exceptionalism it’s is gross Overeach. It can only be dumb superiority complex and racism to have thought that they can talk loud and carry a big stick to keep the savages subdued.

That Canadians have meekly re-elected the controlled scion of ones of the Empires CEO’s who was brought up by the Fascists of the West and the Money is pure pathetic Stockholm syndrome exhibited by voters in the west over the last 50 years.

We deserve all we get!

Canadians did to Meng what Sweden did to Assange and what the Decimate Empire is doing to the World in clueing as I say their own subjects as is happening daily now to the U.K. subjects because of BrexShit. Chaotic scenes at petrol stations! In one of the richest countries in the World.
The MSM are fully controlled Mockingbird operatives. Independent journalism is muted and inprisoned, like Craig Murray is.

I’ll link to my post on the open thread that addresses why the Empire and Eva cornered rat and it’s Masters are morbidly stuck in their death throes as China changes human history on planet Earth with a competent partner in Russia and their SCO.

‘Are we getting it yet barflies?
Posted by: D.G. | Sep 23 2021 17:31 utc | 171 ‘

I see that no one really responded to the link and detail of it in that thread. I wonder why.

The Hauwei angst in the west is because China has ‘leapfrogged’ the Western modernity with nextgen tech and AI in their daily commercial environment. The west having legacy ageing tech infrastructure and systems that hasn’t been squeezed of the last drop of payback/profit from it! That’s how they have always rolled. Capturing IP rights and shelving innovation. They couldn’t do that with 5G and plus. Or with AI in public services.
Which makes them natural predators of similar organisations in the west by virtue of the WTO ‘open to competition’ rules. Which were designed under the assumption they only would work in one direction.

It is that simple. Expect no mercy but be willing to accept that They will not act like we would and will not stoop to such savage western expectations.

Posted by: D.G | Sep 25 2021 20:23 utc | 27

Last night our state news agency turned its primetime national newscast, The National, into a special propaganda edition. (Not that I recommend watching much of it ...)

Instead of starting with the news that the US had offered Meng Wanzhou a deferred prosecution agreement, they made it all about "Kovrig and Spavor on way home to Canada", with the US dropping prosecution of Meng Wanzhou completely secondary.

Much of the airtime was given to establishment pronouncements and spin: Justin Trudeau, regime change specialist former ambassador to Venezuela Ben Roswell, former ambassador to China Guy St. Jacques.

No mention was ever made of the fact that other corporations accused of violating the unilateral US sanctions against Iran - both before and after Meng's arrest - only ever faced fines and not arrests. Only she was arrested, with her arrest warrant issued a month after the US started its trade war with China. In the past almost-3 years of coverage, our state news agency has never mentioned this relevant information to help Canadians understand the situation.

They tried to make much ado about the Canadian politicians' and diplomats' efforts to free Kovrig and Spavor, painting them as heroes, as if that had anything to do with their release, obfuscating the fact that it all resulted from the US dropping its fabricated charges.

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Sep 25 2021 20:31 utc | 28

Tel @5

"How did China know that the two Canadians were spies?"

Every country running an intelligence agency will have one department dedicated to identifying undercover intelligence officers operating in foreign embassies. They will have another department looking for doubles within home government offices etc.

It is very useful to leave known intelligence officer X from country Y alone, apart from close surveillance. They can be pulled if and when necessary. There is much to be gained from seeing who they meet, where and when. The Russians have got this down to a fine art with the Americastanis

Meet Ryan Fogle

Posted by: Arfur Mo | Sep 25 2021 20:40 utc | 29

Don’t pick a fight with an entity “that has luck on its side.”

So advised a PIGO (“Private Imperialist Global Oligarch”) to his followers. He also told them that nations that are too strong, don’t concede. Countries that are in difficulties, are easy to prey. “Governments are like teeth: if you lose them, you never get them back again.” Too much sugar causes diabetes.

It looks like the Empire is out of luck & lost!

Posted by: Max | Sep 25 2021 20:44 utc | 30

#29 "It is very useful to leave known intelligence officer X from country Y alone, apart from close surveillance."

Yes, and China managed to roll up an entire CIA network of spies some years ago (ca. 2011), no doubt by methods such as that (and probably by using double agents like the Venezuelans did to fool the US into thinking their military would support Guido). Eighteen 'sources' were reportedly neutralized in that one Chinese operation. Of course we don't, and won't, know the truth but it sounds like it was a pretty disastrous outcome for the CIA.

Posted by: Billb | Sep 25 2021 20:54 utc | 31

The UN Charter, in its Preamble, set an objective: "to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained". Ever since, the development of, and respect for international law has been a key part of the work of the Organization.
This work is carried out in many ways - by courts, tribunals, multilateral treaties - and by the Security Council, which can approve peacekeeping missions, impose sanctions, or authorize the use of force when there is a threat to international peace and security, if it deems this necessary. These powers are given to it by the UN Charter, which is considered an international treaty. As such, it is an instrument of international law, and UN Member States are bound by it. . .here

China has been clear about the US 'rules-based international order' i.e. US laws, which go against the UN Charter.
Mar 18, 2021
SECRETARY BLINKEN: Well, good afternoon, and welcome. On behalf of National Security Advisor Sullivan and myself, I want to welcome Director Yang and State Councilor Wang to Alaska, and to thank you very much for making the journey to be with us.
I just returned myself from meetings with Secretary of Defense Austin and our counterparts in Japan and the Republic of Korea, two of our nation’s closest allies. They were very interested in the discussions that we’ll have here today and tomorrow because the issues that we’ll raise are relevant not only to China and the United States, but to others across the region and indeed around the world. Our administration is committed to leading with diplomacy to advance the interests of the United States and to strengthen the rules-based international order.
That system is not an abstraction. It helps countries resolve differences peacefully, coordinate multilateral efforts effectively, and participate in global commerce with the assurance that everyone is following the same rules. The alternative to a rules-based order is a world in which might makes right and winners take all, and that would be a far more violent and unstable world for all of us. Today, we’ll have an opportunity to discuss key priorities, both domestic and global, so that China can better understand our administration’s intentions and approach.

Director Yang responded--
What China and the international community follow or uphold is the United Nations-centered international system and the international order underpinned by international law, not what is advocated by a small number of countries of the so-called “rules-based” international order. And the United States has its style – United States-style democracy – and China has the Chinese-style democracy. It is not just up to the American people, but also the people of the world to evaluate how the United States has done in advancing its own democracy. In China’s case, after decades of reform and opening up, we have come a long way in various fields. In particular, we have engaged in tireless efforts to contribute to the peace and development of the world, and to upholding the purposes and principles of the UN Charter. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 25 2021 20:58 utc | 32

Any thoughts on why this deal happened now, after three years? What has changed?

Posted by: Keith McClary | Sep 25 2021 21:02 utc | 33

@Keith McClary | Sep 25 2021 21:02 utc | 33

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman visited Tianjin, China July 25-26 and was presented a list of US "wrongdoings that must stop", also mentioning specifically Meng Wanzhou

China puts forward two lists during talks with visiting U.S. deputy secretary of state

In the List of U.S. Wrongdoings that Must Stop, China urged the United States to unconditionally revoke the visa restrictions over Communist Party of China (CPC) members and their families, revoke sanctions on Chinese leaders, officials and government agencies, and remove visa restrictions on Chinese students.

China also urged the United States to stop suppressing Chinese enterprises, stop harassing Chinese students, stop suppressing the Confucius Institutes, revoke the registration of Chinese media outlets as "foreign agents" or "foreign missions", and revoke the extradition request for Meng Wanzhou.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 25 2021 21:15 utc | 34

I'd like to see Meng Wanzhou sue HSBC for their misconduct in this case. If you look at the specifics of the case, at no time did Meng ask HSBC to route money through the US (thus violating sanctions), yet that is exactly what HSBC did, and they HSBC threw Meng under the bus for it.

To put it another way, this could happen to anyone. I hope Meng sues and wins.

Posted by: Jake "the snake" Rob | Sep 25 2021 21:18 utc | 35

Concerning China's abilities at keeping track of Five Eyes spooks, what part of the imperial color revolution in Hong Kong was missing? What do we normally see in an American regime change operation after the US State Department's NGOs succeed in building protests that was lacking in Hong Kong?

Of course, the snipers.

So where are the snipers that the CIA trained up to spark the protests into a raging conflagration?

Obvious answer: At the bottom of Victoria Harbor wearing concrete boots. This was unlikely to have been done by Chinese intelligence themselves but rather by the Triads after some negotiations with mainland authorities. While the Triads are not allied with the Communists, they are part of the second system in that "One country, two systems" deal and have a deep interest in maintaining the status quo. The empire's color revolution seriously jeopardized that status quo and had to be neutralized.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 25 2021 21:22 utc | 36

One interesting aspect of the Meng saga was how it resulted in the "disappearing" from public view of a person who had been a well-known political figure in Canada.

His name is John McCallum, and he had been a prominent academic, economist, and Cabinet Minister in various Liberal Governments.

Trudeau appointed him ambassador to China, a position he held at the beginning of the Meng affair.

He then committed the unpardonable offence of pointing out the obvious political nature of the U.S. motivation, thereby contradicting the "we're just upholding the rule of law" fairy tale marketed by the Canadian media and government. He temporarily forgot that the first duty of the Canadian elite is to be obedient lackeys of the U.S.

For that he was forced to resign and was never, to my knowledge, to be heard from publicly again. The following is Wikipedia's account of the events leading up to his "resignation":

McCallum shared his thoughts with the media by restating public facts that could make Meng's legal defence case strong against this extradition request. This included President Donald Trump's political intrusion, which undermined the integrity of the Canadian judicial protocol, thereby contradicting Canada's stance by making it political in nature.[28] Furthermore, McCallum re-stated other well-reported motives the United States could have, citing the alleged intent of the arrest by the United States was to attempt to obtain trade concessions from China. McCallum withdrew his comments, saying he "misspoke" and that they did "not accurately represent [his] position on this issue".[29] That week, McCallum is further quoted as later telling a Toronto Star journalist it "would be great for Canada" if the US extradition request were dropped, conditional on release of Canadians since detained in China.

On 26 January 2019, McCallum submitted his resignation as ambassador to China, at the request of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who did not disclose the reasoning behind this decision.

Posted by: expat | Sep 25 2021 21:22 utc | 37

@ JR 35
re: at no time did Meng ask HSBC to route money through the US (thus violating sanctions)

Are you conceding that a Chinese citizen must obey US laws?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 25 2021 21:59 utc | 38

They grew out of an Obama administration national security investigation into Chinese companies — including Huawei — that act as extensions of the country’s government, according to the people familiar with the investigation.

All the majors powers across the world do this as a matter of routine and it is widely know by all the powers. Bank fraud is the catch all anytime time we want angle. Of course HSBC is allowed to continue these types of behavior with consistency and an occasional slap on the wrist.

I was pretty shocked when Canada went along. Reading B's article link it appears Bolton may have been attempting to embarrass Trump and wreck his meeting with Xi just as he had in the Korean talks.

Mr. Bolton was at the G20 summit with the U.S. contingent. He told U.S. reporters on Dec. 6 that he did not inform Mr. Trump about the arrest of the Huawei executive, even though the President was heading into a 2 1/2-hour private dinner with Mr. Xi at the conclusion of the meetings. At that dinner, the two leaders agreed to a 90-day truce in the U.S.-China trade war.

This type of action is not taken just before or during a major summit meeting. there is a backstory here and we may never know but I would speculate it is just another attempt by the NEOCON clan to wreck Trump any way possible.

In addition...

Mr. Trudeau was in the final meeting of the summit – a gathering that also included Mr. Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping – when an official slipped a note to his principal secretary, Gerald Butts. It said Ms. Meng was about to be arrested. Sources say the Prime Minister was caught off guard by the news. He did not raise the matter directly with China’s leader or any other Chinese official that day.

That is some serious brinkmanship....

Chinese sources say Mr. Xi found out about the arrest after the postsummit dinner with Mr. Trump on Dec. 1. Huawei’s chief legal officer and a member of the company’s board of directors, Song Liuping, alerted Beijing not long after Ms. Meng was taken into custody, Huawei sources say. Ms. Meng had called him from Vancouver about four hours after she was detained.

Chinese and Huawei sources say Mr. Xi was infuriated that he learned about the arrest from his own officials and not from the Canadians.

The timing of these actions are unprecedented in diplomatic circles. One can only speculate on the motivations but they appear obvious based on the timing of the arrest.

Posted by: circumspect | Sep 25 2021 22:19 utc | 39

On other thing to add, Mr. Trudeau showed some class keeping thing quiets and some lower bureaucrats may have wrecked Bolton's plans by delaying the arrest as much as possible.

Posted by: cirumspect | Sep 25 2021 22:23 utc | 40

@ William Gruff (#36), all the pillars of the Empire are fully surrounded and neutralized, including Triad organizations!

In Ukraine, the intelligence agencies were with the Empire letting the snipers hide. Were they snipers too? In Hong Kong, any snipers would have been taken out. No place to hide!

In April 2018, Trump has his chocolate cake which he shares with Xi, smiles, talks deals and peace, and then bombs Syria. Obviously, he has to add insult to injury. In Argentina at G20, he dines with Xi again, exchanges niceties, talks deals, while ordering the arrest of Meng. He is betraying at each key event and setting bad precedence. Trump has no conscience.

HSBC & Empire’s days are numbered...

Orcs (individuals without conscience) won’t win. Luck challenges might! What captures might?

Posted by: Max | Sep 25 2021 22:36 utc | 41

thans b.. visiting peachland at the moment…..

i agree with @10 josh an @13 roger…let me say it differently..

as a canuck, this is an embarrassment and complete waste of time, money for canada and mengwanzou, and the 2 michaels… it reminds me of the federal election we just had.. a cplete waste of time and money..

if canada wasn’t such a retard, we would never allowed us to be put in the middle of 2 world powers… that is stpidity, par excellence! i like canada, but not what our ignormas,s in power do to us…. it’s total bullshit.. if the usa wants us to follow thier bullshit iran sanctions, they can go f themselves.. we’re. smarter then this…

Posted by: james | Sep 25 2021 22:40 utc | 42

@ James (#42), when will Canadians work towards their sovereignty?

Canada is a vassal of the Financial Empire and a member of the Five Eyes.

Canada’s oath of allegiance:

“I, [name], do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors. So help me God.”

Which God are they asking for help?

HSBC appoints ex-MI5 chief Jonathan Evans to board in 2013...

Posted by: Max | Sep 25 2021 22:56 utc | 43

@Posted by: Max | Sep 25 2021 22:56 utc | 43

Yep, still remember that from the 1990s when I got my citizenship, surprised me then. I was just moving to a vassal.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 25 2021 23:32 utc | 44

@Keith McClary | Sep 25 2021 21:02 utc | 33
The deal follows the list of request China given to Wendy Sherman when she negotiated with them in June. Release of Meng is one of the pre condition of acceptance of Biden request to meet Xi.

Posted by: Arata | Sep 25 2021 23:52 utc | 45

“Mr. Bolton was at the G20 summit with the U.S. contingent. He told U.S. reporters on Dec. 6 that he did not inform Mr. Trump about the arrest of the Huawei executive, even though the President was heading into a 2 1/2-hour private dinner with Mr. Xi at the conclusion of the meetings. At that dinner, the two leaders agreed to a 90-day truce in the U.S.-China trade war.” - the fact she was taken into custody as Trump and Xi were meeting, this is classic mafia blackmail. While negotiating a deal, kidnap someone important so the other side has to comply. Huawei was obviously the subject/target of the conversation.

Posted by: Bond | Sep 25 2021 23:52 utc | 46

@ Roger (#44), thanks for your candidness. More Canadians are waking up compared to Australians. Checkout “Victoria Grant”, she states all the points you stated earlier. Hopefully, many will come together to win their sovereignty.

Quebec political party refuses to pledge allegiance to Elizabeth...

Posted by: Max | Sep 25 2021 23:54 utc | 47

@47 Canada would probably be a US state by now if it wasn't for the British connection.

Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 0:35 utc | 48

For Canada and sovereignty, much would depend on their IC community and military, regardless of what the people think.
Here in oz, our IC and military seem to look fearfully to our north and cling to US and mother England for support.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 26 2021 0:44 utc | 49

@49 Try cutting ties with Britain Peter and see what happens. You think that would make you less dependent on the US?

Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 0:53 utc | 50

I was just moving to a vassal.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 25 2021 23:32 utc | 44

I do not know particulars, but it is also possible that you "moved to" a peasant of a vassal.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 26 2021 0:57 utc | 51

I'll admit this was a surprise. I expected Meng to be shipped out to the US. Canada should have known better. IIRC, European nations got similar requests but just ignored them. One thing for, Meng will be selling her mansion. I'm not sure how Canada will recover from this.

Posted by: Ian2 | Sep 26 2021 0:59 utc | 52

dh 50

I don't see what you are getting at there. I mentioned our IC and career military clinging to both UK and US.
As to your previous comment on Canada "Canada would probably be a US state by now if it wasn't for the British connection."
The song "North to Alaska"... US have long since simply assumed Canada was part of the US. Nothing I read here in Australia as a kid gave any indication Yukon and Klondike were in Canada not US. It was only out of curiosity a few years back that I looked up where those places were.

North to Alaska.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 26 2021 1:02 utc | 53

The Canadian govt and its CBC parrots have been all about the "rule of law" in the Meng case.
Now CBC is putting on "experts" speculating about how the agreement resulted from behind-the-scenes political influence on the prosecution. They don't seem to notice the contradiction.

Posted by: Keith McClary | Sep 26 2021 1:08 utc | 54

I forgot to add. Apparently someone related to Gazpom was arrested recently. ( HERE ) Honestly, with all the shit going on with Meng you'd think high profile businessmen would take some precautions.

Posted by: Ian2 | Sep 26 2021 1:18 utc | 55

@53 Read up on the Pacific North West history Peter and you will see how close BC and Yukon came to being American states. There are people in Western Canada who would love to belong to the US.

I see a lot of complaining from Canadians and Australians about being vassal states. At least the Yanks haven’t invaded yet. Not since 1812 anyway. There’s no way either country can be totally independent of the US. The demographics could change over time but for now it's a cultural....and yes racial....connection. Also a question of economics and geography.

This is where somebody tells me the US is collapsing to be replaced by a new Golden Age. Well be careful what you wish for.

Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 1:24 utc | 56

IIRC, European nations got similar requests but just ignored them. One thing for, Meng will be selling her mansion. I'm not sure how Canada will recover from this.

Posted by: Ian2 | Sep 26 2021 0:59 utc | 52

How many times can Canada loose its dignity? Perhaps dignity is a lost cause, but the public image is still worth something. So it may matter how frequently and how fervently you demonstrate that you are a mere bootlicker.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 26 2021 1:26 utc | 57

Maybe Tappy the Robot needs to bone up on Huawei phones soon.

Posted by: daffyDuct | Sep 26 2021 1:32 utc | 58

Perfidious ablion, is nasty but US is more like a tafiri suicide bomber. Straight out crazy.
All the anglo countries as far as I can see are going to go through, at the very minimum, very hard times. If US were to be deleted from the map, then things would start to change. But however change comes if we survive for change, it will be through very hard times. I suspect those very hard times will be in my children's era, when they are still raising their own families.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 26 2021 1:37 utc | 59

@57 It'll go on forever PB. It's the price Canada pays for being in bed with an elephant. They've still got hockey though. And Meng's defense team did a pretty good job stalling Trump....maybe with a wink from Ottawa....we'll never know.

Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 1:37 utc | 60

@59 What do you see in the future Peter? Total economic collapse? New and more dangerous viruses. Nuclear war? Or will it be global warming that does us in? Do you think anywhere will be safe? I'm just an old fart trying to do the best for my grandchildren.

Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 1:44 utc | 61

@Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 1:37 utc | 60

The US took all our best hockey players, thats why a Canadian team never wins the Stanley Cup these days.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 26 2021 1:45 utc | 62

@62 Damn it they take everything. And Eugene Levy moved to Hollywood. Canada will be stuck with poutine and SCTV reruns.

Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 1:48 utc | 63

@Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 26 2021 0:57 utc | 51

Ex-banker, I moved to pleasantry rather than peasantry.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 26 2021 1:49 utc | 64

How many times can Canada loose its dignity? Perhaps dignity is a lost cause, but the public image is still worth something. So it may matter how frequently and how fervently you demonstrate that you are a mere bootlicker.

Piotr Berman | Sep 26 2021 1:26 utc | 57:

Every single time as long the US exists. Not sure who's public image you're referring to and why you think I'm a bootlicker. If this is about Meng's selling her mansion, I consider it a practical move. She's not safe living in Canada and certainly not in Australia. What's the point in keeping the mansion?

Posted by: Ian2 | Sep 26 2021 2:00 utc | 65

"old fart trying to do the best for my grandchildren." I guess there's a few of us here in that boat.
You look at peoples ambitions in life when they are young, perhaps around the time they start a family. Most of the times its about material things - house, boat in the garage, being able to help their children financially whatever.
My main ambition and something I felt I could not fail at was to give something to my children that enable them to go out confidently into the world and make their way in life, no matter what the world throws at them.
I look at other countries, other civilizations - all have their ups and downs not to mention the rise and fall of civilizations.
As for the anglo countries, NZ will most likely be the best place, US the worst.
To ride out a time of worldwide hardship in the not too distant future, Russia totally self sufficient in all things may be the best place to be.
Things come to the worst I suspect we are past the era of nuclear winter. The Tsar Bomba had very little radiation fallout due to the lead tampers. Dust in the atmosphere? think about those Tsunami torpedoes. No dust, no radio active fall out. US coasts are not a good place to be. With Russia's tech, ballistic missiles that travel in an arc like a ball are easy to knock down.
But whatever happens dh, our kids and their families are heading into a somewhat shit world.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 26 2021 2:04 utc | 66

Once the North-South issue became important in the U.S., starting about 1820, the U.S. could no longer annex Canada, as giving so much additional power to the North would have upset the South.

I suppose, if the North had allowed the South to secede in 1861, the North would have had an opportunity to annex Canada. Although that would have involved war with Britain. And who knows how that would have turned out.

Seward, in early 1861, wanted the U.S. to go to war not with the South but with Britain. He thought that that could reunite the Union.

Posted by: Lysias | Sep 26 2021 2:08 utc | 67

Meng's release is creating waves.

1. Chinese citizens are giving unprecedented support to the government.
2. Overseas Chinese are ever more united behind China.
3. Even those anti-communist and brainwashed Chinese in Taiwan, Hong Kong and elsewhere are quietly admitting the positive result - because they understand that they could be the target of arrest by America in future if this turns out the wrong way.
4. It is giving a tough-love lesson to the serially abused vassal states, e.g. Japan (Toshiba), France (Alstom), Germany (Siemens) and countless others. I don't know what are their politicians and executives thinking right now: shame, regret, impotent, admiration or some combination of these?
5. It has delivered a bloody punch to the war-mongers and anti-China neo-cons, who are licking their wound.

And finally, it is giving hope to the rest of developing countries. Country who treasures their independence and dignity needs to grow a spine and learn to grab a stick.

Posted by: d dan | Sep 26 2021 2:11 utc | 68

Back in the Cold War the British (MI-6) and the Americans (CIA) frequently recruited businessmen as spies and I don't doubt that the Canadians did the same particularly with British Columbia having a large Chinese population.
Information that in the West might represent a trivial security risk can in a country subject to sanctions represent a major threat such as for example the identities of companies that might supply essential medication.
Again back in the Cold War, British airplane spotters were frequently arrested in countries across Europe such as Greece. Europeans tended to regard airplane spotting as espionage rather than as a leisure activity.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 26 2021 2:22 utc | 69

@66 My kids are doing OK so maybe I did something right. They have dual nationalities, good jobs, houses and I'll be leaving them some worthless dollars. I've told them the good times may not last. Beyond that not much I can do. It's a different world now but I hope they'll be half as lucky as I've been.

Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 2:38 utc | 70

@68 I don't know if the US seriously wants to annex Canada these days. They would probably like to get the resources but US companies do that anyway. They certainly don't want 30 million new citizens insisting on a low crime rate and free health care.

Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 2:43 utc | 71


Annexation is old school. Corporations is the way to do it with limited liabilities.

Posted by: Ian2 | Sep 26 2021 2:53 utc | 72

Empire gonna empire.
Though it’s good to see the hostage negotiations worked out.

Damn near sure Sleepy Joe would NEVER pull that stunt in the first place
He ain’t biting the feeding hand.
Woof Woof

Posted by: Cadence calls | Sep 26 2021 3:17 utc | 73

"... it’s total bullshit.. if the usa wants us to follow thier bullshit iran sanctions, they can go f themselves.. we’re. smarter then this… "
Posted by: james | Sep 25 2021 22:40 utc

Sadly, james, I don't think we are.

Posted by: spudski | Sep 26 2021 3:46 utc | 74

Max | Sep 25 2021 23:54 utc | 47

wrt the Quebec solidaire, you do realize they pledged behind closed doors?

I guess it is a start but kinda limp regardless

Posted by: dan of steele | Sep 26 2021 4:03 utc | 75

If one wanted to over-simplify the outcome of the Meng Wanzhou SNAFU it could be portrayed as China shoving a 'rule' pulled out of USA's ass, and obeyed by Canada, up Canada and USA's asses.
A twofer.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 26 2021 4:10 utc | 76

Bond @ 46
the fact she was taken into custody as Trump and Xi were meeting, this is classic mafia blackmail. While negotiating a deal, kidnap someone important so the other side has to comply. Huawei was obviously the subject/target of the conversation.

Certainly another possibility but according to the link B posted Trump knew nothing and Trudeau only found out at the last minute and kept quiet at the summit. I do not think the state would consider blackmailing China with one arrest. It would take a hell of a lot more than that.

Everything the NEOCONS touch turns to shit. This is no different.

Posted by: circumspect | Sep 26 2021 4:56 utc | 77

This is a massive humiliation for the US Maga establishment n also for the Shiny Pony. I assume it was mainly ShinyPony who pressured the US to give up Meng as he was weakened in election results over the Meng matter.

Under Jackass Trump and his mustached ladyboy Bolton, the US sought to insult China to the max by meeting Xi with smiles, while doing underhand things for Xi to find out after said meetings. Meng was a typical example of it.

But Xi really had the last laugh on Jackass Trump-- Xi pretended to be so helpful and friendly to Trump, offering millions of masks and anti-covid equipment, right on the day that the US surpassed China in Covid-19 cases. After that, it would be millions of Americans infected and hundreds of thousands of Americans to die horrible deaths from Covid-19. And China guessed what was going to happen to the US.

Trump being a fool, thought he had successfully conned Xi, and said what a nice sincere gesture this fool is making, only to realize to his chagrin later, Xi was mocking him, and had actually ripped Trump's little pussy to shreds and made him a laughing stock in the Chinese govt. All the Chinese officials knew that Xi had made a fool of Trump.

I really had a good laugh over this. Trump was really raped very deeply by Xi. Trump was reamed so deep, it was like one of those huge mysterious sinkholes in Siberia.

Posted by: GreatSocialist | Sep 26 2021 5:31 utc | 78

spudski…. yeah, maybe…. anyone with balls is bought out..

roger…ex banker.. you make a lot of sense…..

up to alaska…. johnny horton tune… he died way too young.. oh well..

Posted by: james | Sep 26 2021 5:35 utc | 79

When the Chinese princess had been taken hostage on behalf of Washington I couldn't beliefe it. That's the kind of behaviour I would have expected from North Korea but not by the USA.

This really had been an all-time-low for the USA. Biden reversing this decision had been overdue.

[By the way, does anybody know the name of the song they sang at her arrival?]

Posted by: m | Sep 26 2021 5:51 utc | 80

at least we didn't have to buy a submarine

Posted by: ld | Sep 26 2021 5:54 utc | 81

m @Sep26 5:51 #80: ... reversing this decision had been overdue.

Which begs the question ... which 'm' are you?


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 26 2021 6:15 utc | 82

When Trump tells Trudeau to jump, he jumps. Now Biden tells Trudeau to sit, he sits. Xi says good pet!

Posted by: Nick | Sep 26 2021 6:26 utc | 83

m @80:

Song that was sung at Meng's arrival in Shenzhen is "Ode to Motherland".

It was around in 1949 when PRC was found.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Sep 26 2021 6:41 utc | 84

We should also note the continuing/developing psyop that paints the Left as irresponsible, corrupt, and traitorous.

Biden has been portrayed by the right as being beholden to the 'radical Left' and/or his mental state as making him their 'tool'.

While Biden may have done what is necessary, and China may have forced that necessary action by taking hostages, this is being portrayed by the right propaganda as another cave-in to enemies of USA/West.

A multitude of grievances and perceived failures of the Biden and "the Left" will (I believe) strengthen the Republicans such that they win the mid-terms in 2022 and the Presidency in 2024.

I don't see this developing move to right as being happenstance. Everything is now gamed, especially Imperial politics. And the Empire is, and always has been, bi-partisan.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 26 2021 6:42 utc | 85

ld | Sep 26 2021 5:54 utc | 81 "at least we didn't have to buy a submarine"

I guess there's no need to once you've been underwater long enough.
Other than that, Canada rather than being a forward military base is sandwiched within the US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 26 2021 7:35 utc | 86

m | Sep 26 2021 5:51 utc | 80

Iran has long been accustomed to US goodness and understands the rules of the game. China was quick on the uptake.
When it comes to hostages, I think Russia should also play according to the rules of the anglo game.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 26 2021 7:39 utc | 87

The live broadcast of Meng's arrival got One hundred Million "Likes" (thumbs up).

As a way of increasing Chinese Nationalist fervor, the US and Canada are tops.

Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 26 2021 7:44 utc | 88


I've seen a few things on the most effective anti US propaganda in Russia. All the Russian authorities have to do is ensure Russian people see the anti Russia propaganda in western MSM.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 26 2021 7:57 utc | 89

@ Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 26 2021 7:44 utc | 88

You have a source for those "likes"? It's more than double the most liked youtube vid (according to wiki).

Posted by: awaiting approval | Sep 26 2021 8:06 utc | 90

awaiting approval | Sep 26 2021 8:06 utc | 90

CGTN LIU Xin. Which is marked by Twitbit as "State affiliated media". Take it or leave it.

I have also seen that the Police in Aus are going round to peoples' homes and telling them to "correct" their Facebook ot Twits, or that they may "suspect" them of wanting to attend a protest.

Since it has become common policy to police and censor anything that might be called "dissident", I am now diffident about giving sources that may be shut down.

Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 26 2021 8:54 utc | 91

Posted by: dh | Sep 26 2021 2:43 utc | 71

[The USians] certainly don't want 30 million new citizens insisting on a low crime rate and free health care.

The only advantage that I can think of so far is that, on ingredient labels, individual food coloring agents, natural or artificial, are listed. In Canada, or at least the last time I was there (I don't know about now) all it says is "colour", unless it contains tartrazine (E102, or Yellow 5).

Beyond this, if I were Canadian, I wouldn't want to risk losing:
* Paid maternal leave
* A national name that isn't confused with the continent it's on (Canadians live in Canada. Mexicans live in Mexico. Both are North American. What does that make denizens of the USA?)
* Coins of 1 and 2 dollars
* Banknotes that differ in color with value
* Prices rounded to the nearest five cents
* Kinder Surprise chocolate eggs
* The D-M-Y date format (because days are shorter than months, which are shorter than years. It's why the time format is H:M:S)

And besides that, with Canada still having the queen of England as the head of state, I'm not sure if Britain will agree to it. Not that it'd be taken serously - I'm just offering my 10 cents worth.

Posted by: joey_n | Sep 26 2021 8:58 utc | 92

Did I forget to push the post button this morning? Trying again.

More bullshit perfidy by the 5+1 Eyed Gollum Empire as it melts like a vampire in the sun. Note yet again the willing Canucks who are as much string pullers as puppets, who the populace have re-elected King Trudeau, when they had a chance to get rid. Morons.

‘Kicking China off Sizewell would effectively tear up the government’s 2015 deal with CGN, under which it agreed to fund Hinkley and Sizewell, and then install its own reactors at a third site at Bradwell in Essex. The chances of CGN getting approval to build its reactor in Britain are seen as slender. That deal was seen as the pinnacle of the “golden era” between Britain and China.
Pressure to remove China has ratcheted up under Joe Biden’s administration, with executives from the US construction giant Bechtel teaming up with Westinghouse, the US nuclear technology company owned by Canada’s Brookfield, to develop another nuclear power station, at Wylfa on Anglesey.
In their pitch to the government, they said the project would strengthen the “special relationship”. “Through a successful partnership at Wylfa, the UK and US will share a common interest in promoting the use of this secure, reliable technology in new markets to compete against state-backed Russian and Chinese options,” they wrote.’

And here is the link to my comment on the open thread which I refer to in my earlier comment.

Posted by: D.G. | Sep 26 2021 9:48 utc | 93

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 25 2021 21:15 utc | 34 -- U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman visited Tianjin, China July 25-26 and was presented a list of US "wrongdoings that must stop"

Blinkin' Blink'n dared not meet the Chinese again after his Anchorage shelling. So, he sent the obnoxious Wendy Sherman to take the heat.

Meanwhile, he went to India to do important stuff, but got a knuckle rapping instead from the Indian foreign minister! Talk about speaking from a position of strength. LOL

p/s -- Concerning that list of US sins,
over at the Saker's site, in an article by
Pepe Escobar (Part 2 of 2 on Euroasia)
there is an interesting series of posts by
one Yun Lin, who seems well-placed,
giving background to the drama
around Meng's rescue from the USofA.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Sep 26 2021 10:13 utc | 94

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2021 19:28 utc | 19 -- It looks like that is not working out as many back steps does it take to turn into a retreat?

The shortsighted US brainiac leaders think there are no costs to failing. And so they start fights left and right.

The reality is that each time they step back from a nose to nose, their credibility as bully boy erodes, and with that, their power to enforce their will.

The opposite applies to those who pick the right fights, stand up to the bully, and force an US backdown, upon which their credibility rises. The latest examples being Iranian oil to Lebanon. And now the Meng Affair.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Sep 26 2021 10:26 utc | 95

This is rather big actually, it shows Biden is willing to play ball and engage in diplomacy.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 26 2021 10:28 utc | 96

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 25 2021 20:03 utc | 24 --

The US super duper lawyers pretend that Meng's agreeing to a statement of facts is the same as Meng pleading guilty as charged. Deluded reasoning. Fake news for American idiots' consumption.

But she did not admit guilt, steeling herself to take the punishment as ransom for her homeland.

I would be proud to have a daughter such as her.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Sep 26 2021 10:34 utc | 97

Norwegian @ 25

China supported Meng Wanzhou and eventually got her released.

Who will support Julian Assange?

The Chinese are getting ahead of the curve by disseminating adoration for a corporate bigwig. I mean, spying and corruption being endemic and all, these are probably just the trials and tribulations of State prudence ensuring that HUAWEI get a firmer grip on data analytics platforms.

Assange lost State sponsorship some years ago.

Posted by: john | Sep 26 2021 10:47 utc | 98

@ john

Assange really is a sad actor, the only one his leaks benefitted was Trump and Trump dumped him immediately as he gets the throne.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 26 2021 10:52 utc | 99

This summer, the US DOJ prosecutors decided to file criminal charges against Ms. Meng — fulfilling their years long goal of going after Huawei executives for allegedly acting as an extension of the Chinese government.

Let's get this straight.... In the US, DOJ takes it upon itself to fabricate criminal charges against a Chinese company and Chinese nationals for acting in support of the policies of the Chinese government.... their government... That is... USDOJ considers Chinese patriotism a criminal act....


The Canadians go along....

You can't make this up!


Posted by: George W Oprisko | Sep 26 2021 11:04 utc | 100

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