Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 26, 2021

The MoA Week In Review - OT 2021-074

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Other issues:


> In 2017, as Julian Assange began his fifth year holed up in Ecuador’s embassy in London, the CIA plotted to kidnap the WikiLeaks founder, spurring heated debate among Trump administration officials over the legalityand practicality of such an operation. Some senior officials inside the CIA and the Trump administration even discussed killing Assange, going so far as to request “sketches” or “options” for how to assassinate him. Discussions over kidnapping or killing Assange occurred “at the highest levels” of the Trump administration, said a former senior counterintelligence official. “There seemed to be no boundaries.” <

Fake cyber threat:



Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on September 26, 2021 at 13:33 UTC | Permalink

« previous page | next page »

SPD just won the German elections, narrowly outpacing the CDU.
At least the Green didn't win.
But it's strategic coalition time.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 27 2021 5:07 utc | 101

The Spartacus letter appeared on Zero hedge. An interesting read...

Posted by: circumspect | Sep 27 2021 5:14 utc | 102

@ circumspect | Sep 27 2021 5:14 utc | 102 with the 2nd link to the Spartacus letter about Covid-19

Yeah, he lays it out pretty clearly but much of the biology is above my pay grade. That said, one doesn't need to understand the biology details to appreciate how much lying is going on to sustain the fig leaf of cover over this global war crime.

I have written at MoA before that Covid is an issue that could bring down governments and hasten the demise of blatantly anti-humanistic global private finance backed/controlled empire. Below is a quote from the Spartacus letter that describes a straw that could blow the Covid cover.

India went against the instructions of the WHO and mandated the prophylactic usage of Ivermectin. They have almost completely eradicated COVID-19. The Indian Bar Association of Mumbai has brought criminal charges against WHO Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan for recommending against the use of Ivermectin.

Mexico City is another example and there are enough other examples of effective Ivermectin usage like the half of Africa that uses Ivermectin on a regular basis and have low Covid death rates.

We damn well better hope this Covid criminality blows up because if not then Big Pharma becomes the new case you are not paying attention.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 27 2021 5:32 utc | 103

Re: The NCL (Non-Communist Left)

We know from Frances Stonor Saunders who was financed by CIA and who was not (we also know that many of them were not aware of the fact that their work was secretly funded by the CIA). Adorno and Horkheimer received no funding from the CIA. Marcuse may be a different matter. In any case, it would be helpful if vk could provide sources for his far too generalizing statements.

I share Patroklos' view.

Posted by: Cherrycoke | Sep 27 2021 6:43 utc | 104

Talking about Covid, but my province in Vietnam is ending its lockdown by the end of this month, I can finally go out to eat phở again.

It seems the Covid situation in Asia is much better, it's generally a good news.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 27 2021 7:04 utc | 105

@ circumspect | Sep 27 2021 5:14 utc | 102

"The Spartacus letter appeared on Zero hedge. An interesting read..."

What exactly was interesting about it?

Posted by: Jake "the snake" Rob | Sep 27 2021 7:32 utc | 106

@Don Bacon | Sep 26 2021 21:57 utc | 62

I'm surprised that Lavrov didn't even mention global warming

Lavrov is reality based.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 27 2021 8:00 utc | 107

@blues | Sep 27 2021 2:05 utc | 90

Thank you for that spartacus link

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 27 2021 8:13 utc | 108

News from "do no evil" country.

Election integrity: Content that advances false claims that widespread fraud, errors, or glitches changed the outcome of select past national elections, after final election results are officially certified. This currently applies to:

Any past U.S. Presidential election
The 2021 German federal election

They forgot to put a list of countries, these you always doubt, those never, so much for the "intelligent voting" interference by the Navalny sect, sounds so techie and cool. Long live democracy and freedom of the press,

Posted by: Paco | Sep 27 2021 8:14 utc | 109

In the recent German elections, the Alternative for Germany political party has been contacted by a company that offered to distribute campaign flyers at a competitive price. The distribution company turned out to be a scam; and as a result a million campaign flyers went unused.

I suspect that if this had happened to an opposition party in Russia, the press reaction would have enormous.

Posted by: passerby | Sep 27 2021 8:21 utc | 110


Interesting, any link on that scam?

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 27 2021 8:36 utc | 111

Zanon @ 111:

This is the article in FAZ, something like the German Financial Times: FAZ

The current title of the article is "AfD probably fooled by fictitious flyer distributor". You can still figure out the original title of the article if you look at the url. The url is, roughly translated: "Afd fooled by satirical action - one million flyers not distributed"

I find it fascinating how the free press works in our Western democracies.

Posted by: passerby | Sep 27 2021 9:39 utc | 112

@ passerby

I wonder if the AfD will sue, that WAS a crime.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 27 2021 9:46 utc | 113

vetinLA #41

What matters, is the "working classes" can blame no one but themselves for the state of the U$A today.

On the contrary the working classes have endured generation after generation of
shoot-to-kill orders to the Pinkerton men or the cops or the national guard in the USA. That does tend to dampen the get out and get bold approach to resistance and demonstrations and so on.

The murderous oligarch class showed how unscrupulous and gun crazy they and their thugs are from the beginning. The working class is yet to adopt that same approach en mass to the dissolution of their enemy.

I anticipate that there will be a time soon enough when that impunity enjoyed by the ruling class is shattered and obliterated. These turnarounds can happen in the blink of an eye. Time will tell.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 27 2021 9:54 utc | 114

This right here is reason enough for Canada to be a part of CUSMA/USMCA, the new NAFTA. The UK has proposed joining the deal.

“Mexico says USMCA pact change needs approval from all members”

And an interesting Canadian view on the energy crisis in the EU -

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Sep 27 2021 10:14 utc | 115

@ Posters, re:

“ little P*** bastard “

And others close skirting.

This site has always seemed to not consist of determined racists or sexists - of whatever background.

In inner city London and even City companies in the current age you will not hear such slurs spoken as they used to freely through the 70’s and 80’s.

Prince Harry used the P word when he was on deployment to Afghanistan, he even dressed up as a Nazi for a party as an eligible bachelor - his ex Sloan mum grown up with crushes on oriental gentlemen would not have approved. I expect he is much better informed now.

Just like the N word and C word people need to grow up.

The recent creation and usage of ‘Gammon’ to refer to UKIPpers who bought into racist anti immigration propaganda by the MSM - will too pass as the contrived UKIP and AdF have and are.

No young gun smart high flying banker can make monkey noises when seeing black footballers, or have a joke about Gay and Lesbians or about colleagues - because their alpha entitled upbringing trained them to expect they will get a free pass because of their privilege.

Complicated isn’t it?

Not really, if you understand there is no such reality as Left/Right because it is a construct of the Top to keep the Bottom divided and fighting between themselves - regardless of their Colour/Sex/Education/Job status.

There is no Capitalism/AntiCapitalism.
No free markets/ marxism.
They are constructs created centuries ago to protect the always slave owners of the Western world with their feeble reliance on Ancient Greek/Roman/pharaonic origins and capture of Abrahamic Religions to make such hierarchies in their subjects minds.

The left/right are the pillars that frame the Overton Window which keep mind washing fairy tales burning into our minds - the MANY - to keep us subservient to the Masters who are themselves slaves of the Owners.

Words are spells or prayers to make believe deities that are used for such Pavlovian conditioning.

Tell me and others to fuck off - that is daily banter but none of my neighbourhood will let anyone get away with any racial slur and daily even sexist slurs - hilariously over the weekend when in a tight game of bowls an old female urging the team not to give up until the end stopped us saying ‘fat lady sings’!

Let’s be careful out here, ok?

Posted by: D.G. | Sep 27 2021 10:17 utc | 116

Smith @ 113:
Smith @ 113:
To me, the real culprits are the journalists. The Western press lies, usually by omission.

Posted by: passerby | Sep 27 2021 10:27 utc | 117

@ passerby

Well, the western media is the West's strongest weapon, other than nukes. They can make their own facts.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 27 2021 10:38 utc | 118

The Western Marxists are, in fact, politically useless because they either relinquished the goal to overthrow the bourgeois ruling class by any means necessary, ipso facto ceasing to be Marxists as the 2nd international did on account of not being revolutionary; or at best were foiled in their attempts.

They may have interesting academic/analytic contributions, but this is entirely secondary to actual political and strategic doctrine, in which the Chinese and Soviet marxist schools remain paramount.

The Western Marxists will be politically rehabilitated when there is a successful western revolutionary party that owes part of its success to updating and implementing the teachings of Western Marxists, whether this happens at some point of history or is, like a shoe smaller on the outside and bigger on the inside, an impossible object, remains to be seen.

Posted by: Misotheist | Sep 27 2021 10:49 utc | 119

It seems Covid is really dying down in Asia. I wonder if it's really due to the ivermectin/anti-viral drugs.

I really wish we have more indian posters for more report on the actual situation on the ground in India, did the indians really beat Covid by using ivermectin?

Posted by: Smith | Sep 27 2021 10:53 utc | 120

I checked a bit about FDP. Their program included a tax decrease, increase in defense spending to 3% GDP (it is 1.5 now? below 2 for sure), more spending on infrastructure and paying for all of that with privatization of Post Office, national railroad etc. Decrease in energy cost (how?). Presumably a great fit with Greens (really), hence negotiations for Black-Yellow-Green coalitions. Will we have a repeat of 2017 when it took months to realize that the cannot reconcile? This impossible combination is the only alternative for Red-Black, I.e. SPD + CDU/CSU where the stumbling block is the Kanzler chair.

UK has "admirably high" defense spending and today I read about the boon it provides for the society. Suddenly (check Yesterday of The Beatles) a shortage of truck drivers emerged in UK, not enough drivers to bring food to the supermarkets and gasoline (petrol? they have some strangely named liquids in UK) to gas stations. Enter the military! Thousands of troops have to know how to drive a truck. So they can actually do it, according to Her Majesty Government, after recalling reservists for several weeks.

Imagine a putative Russian invasion. Periodically a Russian navy convoy passes by on the way from Baltic to Mediterranean. Suddenly (check Yesterday of The Beatles) the make a turn an a few thousand troops lands in Cornwall and Devon, immediately imposing matryoshka and other Russian toys on local preschools. The counter-action comes swiftly! after several weeks of recalling reservists a mighty force is assembled in Wiltshire (I am hazy on counties between Devon and Wiltshire), but, alas, innocent English and Cornish tykes are already indoctrinated with matryoshka and other Russian toys, and evil deed done, Russian navy departs.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 27 2021 11:02 utc | 121

blues | Sep 27 2021 2:05 utc | 90
circumspect | Sep 27 2021 5:14 utc | 102

Just finished reading the link. Thanks a lot. (above my level but very clear)

The nanotech (in the brain) would need to use a media that would be capable of "giving" instructions, without the recipient knowing or seeing a need to question.

Easy answer. Television and/or moblie phones might be the vector. It would explain the quasi-religious fervor and obedience that many people have about the situation.
Subliminal "propaganda" has been known for many years, and was at first destined to become "just for" advertising.
It also explains the present obsession of Governments and the PIGO's to resort to brutality to get everyone vaccinated quickly.
One thing I didn't see described were the effects on fertility, (560+ stillborn children in the US after jabs), and the prospective effect on reproductive abilities for women (ie. menstruel problems). It is possible that there are factors that might have an effect on male fertility, - but this could be taken care of by the fluoridation of water. (Reduces male sperm count and rots the brain)

Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 27 2021 11:08 utc | 122

Posted on the wrong thread
Interesting post on Zero Hedge this morning (Turkish time). The original PDF is also provided by zero hedge.

Apologize to those who think COVID posts are dull and boring. One short section about Randomized Control Trials below, but a lot of information of interest throughout.

"Because of the way they are constructed, Randomized Control Trials will never show any benefit for any antiviral against COVID-19. Not Remdesivir, not Kaletra, not HCQ, and not Ivermectin. The reason for this is simple; for the patients that they have recruited for these studies, such as Oxford’s ludicrous RECOVERY study, the intervention is too late to have any positive effect.

The clinical course of COVID-19 is such that by the time most people seek medical attention for hypoxia, their viral load has already tapered off to almost nothing. If someone is about 10 days post-exposure and has already been symptomatic for five days, there is hardly any virus left in their bodies, only cellular damage and derangement that has initiated a hyperinflammatory response. It is from this group that the clinical trials for antivirals have recruited, pretty much exclusively.

In these trials, they give antivirals to severely ill patients who have no virus in their bodies, only a delayed hyperinflammatory response, and then absurdly claim that antivirals have no utility in treating or preventing COVID-19. These clinical trials do not recruit people who are pre-symptomatic. They do not test pre-exposure or post-exposure prophylaxis.

This is like using a defibrillator to shock only flatline, and then absurdly claiming that defibrillators have no medical utility whatsoever when the patients refuse to rise from the dead. The intervention is too late. These trials for antivirals show systematic, egregious selection bias. They are providing a treatment that is futile to the specific cohort they are enrolling.

India went against the instructions of the WHO and mandated the prophylactic usage of Ivermectin. They have almost completely eradicated COVID-19. The Indian Bar Association of Mumbai has brought criminal charges against WHO Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan for recommending against the use of Ivermectin.

Ivermectin is not “horse dewormer”. Yes, it is sold in veterinary paste form as a dewormer for animals. It has also been available in pill form for humans for decades, as an antiparasitic drug.

The media have disingenuously claimed that because Ivermectin is an antiparasitic drug, it has no utility as an antivirus. This is incorrect. Ivermectin has utility as an antiviral. It blocks importin, preventing nuclear import, effectively inhibiting viral access to cell nuclei. Many drugs currently on the market have multiple modes of action. Ivermectin is one such drug. It is both antiparasitic and antiviral.

In Bangladesh, Ivermectin costs $1.80 for an entire 5-day course. Remdesivir, which is toxic to the liver, costs $3,120 for a 5-day course of the drug. Billions of dollars of utterly useless Remdesivir were sold to our governments on the taxpayer’s dime, and it ended up being totally useless for treating hyperinflammatory COVID-19. The media has hardly even covered this at all.

The opposition to the use of generic Ivermectin is not based in science. It is purely financially and politically-motivated. An effective non-vaccine intervention would jeopardize the rushed FDA approval of patented vaccines and medicines for which the pharmaceutical industry stands to rake in billions upon billions of dollars in sales on an ongoing basis."

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 11:45 utc | 123

On the Spartacus piece...

buff up your eyeprints

Posted by: john | Sep 27 2021 11:59 utc | 124

@ Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 27 2021 2:27 utc | 94

The dissension between "Eastern" (Russian) and "Western" Marxism go way before Stalin's rise to power in the USSR. You're wiping out half century of History when you're stating social-democrats only started to reject Russian Marxism because of Stalin. Lenin was as accused of truculence and tyranny as Stalin.

The picture of the Bolsheviks as some kind of primitive and ruthless form of Marxism is a common theme in German Social-Democracy since the beginning of the 20th Century.


@ Posted by: Cherrycoke | Sep 27 2021 6:43 utc | 104

Besides Saunders' catalogue, there are also one or two books about the UK's case.

But the most important source are the works of the NCL intellectuals themselves. If you read the works of Hannah Arendt (who was never, and never claimed to be, a Marxist), post-WWII Adorno (who received money from the USG, even though he was not CIA) and Horkheimer, among others, you'll clearly see the common theme among them was anti-communism.

The political curriculum of the NCL was a disaster: besides contributing heavily to anti-communist propaganda (using false and fallacious arguments), they fully supported the genocide of the Palestinians by the Israelis (specially Horkheimer; Arendt was more sophisticated, stating "evil is now banal, so at the end of the day it doesn't matter"). The NCL finally collapsed when they threw all their support in favor of the Vietnam War - in the name of destroying Communism. After the Mi Lai Massacre was uncovered and publicized, their position became untenable. Plus, the end of the Vietnam War coincided with the Oil Crisis of 1975, which brought the collapse of Keynesianism and the welfare state. The fall of the NCL would pave the way for the rise of the Neoliberals and Neoconservatives (who already existed, but were marginal ideologies).

The existence of the neoliberals and neoconservatives also helps us understand why the NCL took the shape it did: they had to promote pluralism because they were not the only game in town. In the USSR, Marxism reigned supreme. The NCL had thus to explain to its sympathizers why that was the case, and why they were better than their Soviet counterparts. Hence Schlesinger Jr.'s concept of "vital center".


@ Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 11:45 utc | 123

You know what's even cheaper than Ivermectin? Vaccine.

And the vaccine you only have to take two times (three in special cases). Ivermectin, as you stated, is a daily treatment.

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 12:00 utc | 125

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 12:00 utc | 125

No, the mRNA vaccine is far, far more expensive, even if the individual getting the jab does not directly pay for it. In any case, I am not the writer. It is a quotation. Note the quotation marks. The article records facts that are not disputable. The author also hedges on certain assumptions, which you may dispute, and even speulates outright at the end of the article, which I tend to disagree with.

It is not medically disputable that ivermectin is safe for humans when used properly. To what extent it may be effective as a prophylactic, is still open. But your position that ivermectin is only anti-parisitical is wrong, and your irrational denial that it is also anti-viral suggests that, perhaps, you have investments in Pfizer or Moderna.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 12:13 utc | 126

@ Smith 120

The central Indian government is fully onboard of bureaucrat Fauci's doctrine of fearing THE virus and wanting to vaccinate all, with one rational leg up on him: they try to treat people long before they arrive at an ICU when feeling sick.
For vaccination differences inside India see here:
Maybe half now had one dosis - usually the Indian Covidhield or Covaxin so their immune systems are warned. Lockdowns have been eased a lot and there is no green pass / QR code/ job loss madness going on here. Deaths are low, possible "cases" have been going down a lot. Indians have beaten Corona by giving it its proper (small) place: a not very deadly infection amongst the many existing medical problems here like TBC, Malaria, "Sugar disease" etc.
People in the street see few Covid deaths but lots of lockdown economic and social misery, electable politicians have to keep that in mind. There are always elections going on, either national, state wise or local - these are all kept out of phase as they need a huge election officers- & police effort. Unpopular domestic politics have always been punished hard and fast by the electorate.

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 27 2021 12:16 utc | 127

@ Antonym

Did some provinces really treat people via ivermectin like the internet said?

Did you yourself encounter any antiviral drugs encouraged by the government?

For us viets, it's only vaccines and exercises, deaths were very high just 3 months ago but we seem to get over it now. I'm still not vaccinated LOL

Posted by: Smith | Sep 27 2021 12:24 utc | 128

jinn @91

I never voted for Trump, but I didn't buy into the shrill squealing that he was the secular woke version of the Antichrist either. I did, with brew in hand, watch in fascination as what I have been referring to as the American middle class (NemesisCalling @88 is correct that more nuance is needed, but "middle class" is close and saves a couple paragraphs) colorful snowflakes melted down into urine-scented puddles.

I did, however, occasionally try to puncture the hysteria by pointing out that we've had worse PotUSes than Trump, with Shrub Jr being an example that should still be fresh on readers' minds, assuming readers were still in possession of those minds. My efforts accomplished nothing more than getting me vacuously dismissed as a "Trumpist", which is apparently the secular woke version of a minor demon that must be exorcised with garlic and brandished religious symbols (Aside: I rather like garlic and have studied symbolic communication enough that symbols have lost their subconscious compulsions with me, so these exorcisms always failed amusingly).

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 27 2021 12:25 utc | 129

@ Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 12:13 utc | 126

So, you're stating paying USD 1.80 per week for the rest of your life is cheaper than two USD 29.00 mRNA vaccine doses (the inactivated virus Chinese one, which is used in the vast majority of the Third World, is even cheaper, at USD 8.00 per dose)?

This is mathematics, not ideology.

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 12:30 utc | 130

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 12:00 utc | 125

Ivermectin can be produced in human doses by bulk much cheaper and faster than vaccines that have stricter and longer production control regime and they require less sophisticated facilities and storage as well.

Frankly since it's not immediate deathly disease like SARS or MERS I do consider that the research towards treatment outside vaccines are too little. They should've given the same publicity and transparency towards ivermectin since it can be used in conjunction to end the pandemic.

Posted by: Lucci | Sep 27 2021 12:31 utc | 131

The danger isn’t that China’s Evergrande will collapse. It’s that it won’t.

Jeez, guys. Time to decide on your narrative on Evergrande.

For those who don't know the joke: it has become more or less clear since yesterday Evergrande will not go bust. The timing of this (and others) op-ed is extremely funny, as it is textbook flip-flopping by the WaPo (Paul Krugman did the dirty job for the NYT in an op-ed yesterday, which I linked here @5).

Even if Evergrande goes bust and the Chinese government bails it out (which is a possibility), it won't be like the infamous Obama bailouts of 2009: the CEO, owners, executive corps etc. of the company will all be sacked/expropriated by the State, which will take over and restructure it. So, you might guess, the CEO of the company are walking that extra mile for the company to not go bust and not need a State bailout.

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 12:39 utc | 132

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 12:30 utc | 130

It is a a 5-day early treatment. Read the excerpt that I posted. Of course, the mRNA vaccine works so well, that we are being targeted for repeated booster shots for the rest of our lives, apparently. Big Pharma knows how to make a buck.

The PDF link is valuable because of the 14 or more pages of sources all grouped according to COVID 19 topic.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 12:44 utc | 133

@ Posted by: Lucci | Sep 27 2021 12:31 utc | 131

Oh, really? The pharmaceuticals who own the patent of the drug will mass produce the drug just for the sake of all humanity? You bet your ass that, if all the governments approved this vermifuge, mass demand would spike the prices to the order of 500%+. And that would be just the start.

Either way, the same argument goes to the vaccines - specially the non-mRNA ones, which are the ones that are going to be used in the Third World - they can also be mass produced to lower prices per unit, and they can also be stored at room temperature for a month, and at a common freezer for its full expiring date. The USD 8.00 per dose is the outdated price of the Chinese vaccine; I guess they're much cheaper now that they started mass obligatory vaccinations in the Mainland.

Mainland China has just administered 2.2 billion doses of vaccines as of today. 700 million more to go.

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 12:48 utc | 134

@ Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 12:44 utc | 133

You're dreaming if you think the Indonesian people will be inoculated mainly by mRNA vaccines. It is just not feasible, no matter how much pro-USA their elite is. mRNA vaccines are extremely expensive to import (each 90-dose container requires 50 pounds of dry ice to transport via airplane) and they require special, super-cold freezers to storage. That won't happen in countries like Indonesia.

When the cookie crumbles, it will be the Chinese inactivated virus vaccines that will save the day in the Third World.

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 12:51 utc | 135

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 12:51 utc | 135

Maybe, you should read the article. It is not about Indonesian peoples being vaccinated by mRNA. I suspect the author is more concerned about the US and Europe vaccination/theraputic debacle. Not to mention the political, corporate power and wealth grab.

I would not disagree with you on the Chinese inactivated vaccines. I have had two doses of Sinovac myself here in Turkey. Still, there is very little evidence available on its efficacy/effectiveness.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 12:59 utc | 136

I trusted the Doctor who prescribed opioids for the wear and tear of arthritis common to many late 50's bricklayers. No warning was given. I had used neither drugs nor alcohol since 20, we were like lambs to the slaughter. Six months of pain free bliss and 4 years of rage when I was a danger to myself and anyone who crossed my path.
VK calls us trash.
He too is a victim. I am sure he did not choose to score so low on simple human compassion. Or even lower in intellectual capacity. And rock bottom in his contribution to humanities common weal.

Posted by: archeon | Sep 27 2021 13:00 utc | 137

All US citizens should be envious of a better political system, IMO, with multiple parties representing more views, instead of having the two US tweedledum and tweedledee paries (h/t Ralph Nader).
...from DW
Opinion: Move over grand coalition — Germany wants change

Change has come. The decision of the German electorate is clear. It's game over for the trivial compromises of the last grand coalition. Now it's time for big challenges like climate change, digitalization and the necessary modernization of Germany.
These herculean tasks can now only be solved in cooperation with the smaller parties. In all conceivable coalitions the Greens and the Free Democrats will have a big say. Nothing will work without them — and that's a good thing. . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 27 2021 13:09 utc | 138

@ Smith 128
Here are the official central government May 2021 treatment protocols for various severity cases:

I guess it is all a matter of doing the right this at the right moment - also before it gets serious. I read that our own bodies produce 400% more interferon at 39 C than at 38.5 C so keep a fever up and have patience.

I took one vaccination when my direct neighbor said she had Covid-like symptoms and self isolated, thinking that a crippled version of Corona was better than a full one one. I stayed fine and am not planning to take more shots for this dud virus.

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 27 2021 13:12 utc | 139

It looks to me as if the European Union wished to delay North Stream 2 until Merkel was gone; and that the plan was, with Merkel gone and Putin desperate to sell gas, the EU would be in a position to call the price. But anyone who has even a superficial knowledge of Russian history - Stalingrad during WW2, or the more recent economic sanctions - should have realized the Russians do not give in when under siege. When invaded in World War 2, Stalin moved the factories from the Western part of Russia to the other side of the Urals in WW2. Similarly, when the EU is hostile to Russia today, Putin reacts by moving the focal point of gas delivery from Western Europe to Asia. That there is no-one in Brussels who was able to foresee this is a tragedy.

Posted by: passerby | Sep 27 2021 13:36 utc | 140

@Don Bacon 138

The DW is not neutral of course as government organization should be: they want Green at the center of Germany('s economic down fall).
The FDP is as much a kingmaker as Green. Even the unthinkable is numerically possible: CDU + FDP + AFD! Won't happen as the Anglo elite found Western Left easier to manipulate than Western Right. Their Europe based MSM, social media and CIA/NSA will make sure of favorable European governments as usual I am afraid. Macron was such an example of maverick to president in ~6 months. Or Boris the clown.

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 27 2021 13:39 utc | 141

@Smith 128
Yes. You have to remember India is a big country with 14 official languages and more than 28 30 states. They are being divided into smaller states for administrative convenience. The directive may come from Delhi but states follow their own systems and procedures depending upon the influence of pharma, hospital lobbies. Goa was one of the earliest states to use Ivermectin successfully before it was frowned upon by Modi's govt. There is always for and against lobbies for anything under the sun including the use of Ivermectin, remdesivir, jabs etc. After second wave became severe, many bhp party ruled states disregarded WHO advice and used ivermectin as a prophylactic and for regular initial stage covid19. Delhi, MP, UP Karnataka have used ivermectin but are loathe to give credit publicly.
Modi is following what is advised from USA I.e. jabs for all .
In Bangalore early covid cases are called baby corona and 5 day ivermectin treatment is given by local doctors to people unable/unwilling to go to private hospital chains who are bent on making money.
The severity of covid disease is probably dependent on vitamin D3 level.
The national daily cases now range around 20-25000 with Kerala state accounting for 3/4 to 2/3rd cases.

Posted by: R M Rao | Sep 27 2021 13:50 utc | 142

My dear fellow Covid truthers. Appreciate all you do to point out the obvious symptoms of the massive psychological warfare operation in play to codify the 'new normal' of totalitarianism.

But really isn't like pounding a broken record against a brick wall at MOA? As Mark Twain probably didn't say "It's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled."

And I imagine the 'smarter' they are the harder the convincing becomes.


Posted by: gottlieb | Sep 27 2021 14:10 utc | 144

Thank you, Don Bacon @ 53 for a summary comparison between China's electoral system and that of the US which is accurate and concise. Throw in Germany's election result, and even though we can deplore the UN, at least in Germany there are choices still, as there once were in the US, before the turn of the century. I also add the long press conference from Lavrov to the mix. The latter was a disturbing read for me last night, as I was sensing a disturbance in Lavrov's usually clear thought processes, a weariness perhaps as he is facing so much negative pressure. It had me worrying about his health, which I haven't done previously. I hope he is okay.

James, enjoy peachland (wherever that is). On covid - I was watching the golf this weekend, of course of the wealthy for the wealthy by the wealthy, but still food for thought - the course took up an expanse of Lake Michigan coastline that had me thinking of the enormous lake in Russia - Baikal? The last day was very interesting, as with each dramatic segment of the course almost a carbon copy of the one before, five days of enormous effort had taken obvious toll; the gladiators were spent; the crowd hoarse. A contest between two segments of a dying system, the Iliad with cameras, and those, too, extended and exhausted finally, with the last struggling players almost not caring.

Two miles of coastline. Pebble Beach on steroids. A phantom contest. A sea that is not a sea. The exhausted elites. And I had a reading from Paul's second Corinthian letter :-

"...For if I caused you pain, who is there to make me glad but the one whom I have pained?..."

Who is there to make them glad?

Posted by: juliania | Sep 27 2021 14:11 utc | 145

@ Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 12:59 utc | 136

I would not disagree with you on the Chinese inactivated vaccines. I have had two doses of Sinovac myself here in Turkey. Still, there is very little evidence available on its efficacy/effectiveness.

Except there is. The vaccine has already passed all the phase trials and already is approved by the WHO, etc. And they do work against the Delta variant.

In what planet do you live?


@ Posted by: passerby | Sep 27 2021 13:36 utc | 140

Last thread there was a little debate about the mystification of the figure of Stalin.

One of the myths about Stalin was that he was a great innovator who re-founded the Bolshevik Party against the evil hordes of Jewish intellectuals.

The policy of transferring industrial capacity to the Urals was an old Bolshevik policy, that already was common sense among the rank-and-file of the Party since Lenin was alive. The obstacle was that the USSR still depended on importing foreign (read: Western European and American) know-how and technology to industrialize and modernize, which made it extremely difficult to industrialize any region of Russia that was not the Donbass and the St. Petersburg area. Even Moscow was more like a light industry pole, centered around the textile industry.

So, yes, the little story we hear today that Stalin, in a stroke of genius, decided to transfer the entire Soviet industry to the Urals in anticipation of a Nazi invasion is pure myth. What happened, of course, is that he accelerated the process in sight of the danger of war from the West, but the policy was not his invention. It was a well-established Bolshevik policy.

Even then, the process didn't come even close to being finished. When the Nazis captured the Ukraine, the USSR lost a lot (maybe even half or more than half) of its industrial capacity.

It is not surprising that the Bolsheviks, as soon as they took power, decided to developed the most undeveloped regions of Russia in order to achieve territorial unity. That's the logic of the socialist system. Hence the Bolshevik obsession with the economic development of Siberia and Central Asia, as well as the northern region of the Far East. It finds its parallel nowadays with China's quest for the development of the West (Tibet and Xinjiang).

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 14:15 utc | 146

Sorry, that must have been Freudian - "...even though we can deplore the UN..." ought to have been "...even though we can deplore the UE..."

Posted by: juliania | Sep 27 2021 14:15 utc | 147

For some who didn't know: IF you run into a pay wall like this:

Go here in another tab to and past the wanted URL (above) into the bottom open slot: presto, you'll see (a snapshot of) the whole wanted page.

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 27 2021 14:29 utc | 148

Latin America, CELAC
The CELAC conference in Mexico City is over and gives us lots of "tells" about what will likely happen there over the next year, based on the hype, the spats at the conference, the speeches, who met publicly with whom, direct challenges to Biden along with a few supportive words from sycophants, and the final speech (scheduled by AMLO)given by Maduro. Here's a quick bullet point summary if you don't read the link.
-AMLO (Mex), Maduro, Arce (Bolivia), Ortega (Nicaragua), Diaz Canel (Cuba) all hyped the idea that the hated OAS was finished and might be replaced by CELAC (also known as CLAC in English). Didn't happen because it was a head fake... for now. Be patient. It will. A year from now Latin America will likely be pinker: Brazil, Chile, Colombia.
-China was featured. Xi spoke by televideo expressing total support for CELAC-- NOT OAS, pointing toward BRI-SCO network already happening.
-Featured speakers were all resistance countries and were also placed to speak after imperial toadies whom they forcefully rebutted.
-AMLO and Ebrard (probable next Mex president) spent lots of air time along side Maduro, Diaz Canel, Arce and other lefties, also publicly called out Biden on sanctions/embargoes.
bottom line, U.S. empire is crumbling south of the border and the CELAC conference showed it.

Posted by: migueljose | Sep 27 2021 14:32 utc | 149

NemesisCalling @88

First I want to point out that the resident bunny's theory was NOT that Trump wasn't antagonistic to the interests of the ruling elites. Trump IS a ruling elite; a real one at that and not just one of the well compensated lackeys like the Clintons or TV Land talking heads, so how would Trump being antagonistic to the elites even make sense in the first place?

The resident bunny's principal thesis is that the elites and their very obedient establishment in government and mass media and corporate management wanted Trump as President in 2016 rather than Clinton. For there to be any basis to this thesis the ridiculous hysteria exhibited by the establishment in government and mass media and corporate management since November 10, 2016, would have to have been a massive, expensive, coordinated, and elaborate ruse; an act. Millions of the elites' faithful toadies, not just in the US but in the EU too, very realistically pretending to lose their minds? Nonsense! That hysteria was absolutely real.

Trump's sincerest desire to represent the interests of the elites does not negate his utility as a human hand grenade employed by American voters to wreck the elites' plans. The empirical fact that the elites' plans have been wrecked, from Latin America to the Middle East to Asia to Europe, with the empire's long-planned color revolutions and regime changes crumbling left and right; these empirical facts inform us that things have absolutely not been going as the elites expected since 2016. The fact that the American public has caught onto the effort to program divisive "critical race theory" into children in the public schools and pushback is developing at the local level is another sign of how things are not going in the elites' direction. CRT was a big part of the elites' divide and rule strategy, but to be successful it had to remain out of the spotlight. Trump's win helped turn the klieg lights on CRT. How is that in the interests of the elites?

With that rant out of the way, I propose a better categorical division of the middle class. As you noted yourself the public sector/private sector categorization is of limited utility because there is too much crossover between those categories. The private sector is playing a huge role in silencing and marginalizing the "Trumpian revolt" with totally unprecedented censorship in social media and enthusiastic blacklisting of any identified "Trumpists".

A better categorization would be college educated vs "uneducated". An even finer split can be made if we make a distinction between STEM and non-STEM college students, with the STEM students falling overwhelmingly into the camp of the "uneducated" in this political divide. This divide is more representative of the situation in the US despite the STEM students not being very vocal about their orientation in this regard (they are the vast minority on American college campuses, after all, and numbers count when you are forced to be concerned with being academically and socially burned at the stake for heresy).

We could discuss at length why the split follows these lines and eventually arrive at the realization that it is simple brainwashing at college in the fields of study where you can get away with it. STEM fields don't have a lot of room for delusional thinking, while many other courses of study at university today are pure delusional thinking. The important point is that empirically this is where the fault line lies.

[Interesting aside: There are a number of recent articles in the moron mass media bemoaning the relative decline in proportion of college enrollments that identify as white males. Paradoxically, the very next article could bemoan the fact that the STEM programs remain dominated by white males (and Asians, but the moron mass media is quick to relegate that fact to a footnote). Why are programs of study that promote delusional thinking relatively less attractive to guys, and programs that emphasize hard rationalism less appealing to women and a narrow definition of "People of Color"? Why is that? One thing we know that it is NOT is that the instructors in the STEM fields are hostile to women or people with a little extra melanin in their skin. Administrators have been on the lookout for that for literally generations and not been able to find it. Something interesting to think about...]

Corporate management, as well as state and federal bureaucracies, are staffed almost exclusively by non-STEM college grads. This is to say that these organizations are staffed by individuals whose educations involved uniformly doctrinaire delusional thinking.

Of course, America does still have a fair number of skilled trades workers who are in the middle income bracket and they too overwhelmingly pulled the lever for Trump, so I certainly recognize that "middle class" isn't the perfect term to encapsulate the problematically delusional portion of America's population that I was discussing. But then trades workers, even the ones with incomes well into six figures, usually still consider themselves working class.

So, yeah, some refinement is needed where the term "middle class" is concerned.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 27 2021 14:43 utc | 150

I'm reposting this link in case it was missed at the end of the last open thread. Mint Press's Alan Macleod interviews Brasilwire's Brian Miers about Brazil, including a really good one hour podcast, a "must hear" IMO.
Miers, a Chicago native but long time Brazilian, lays out Brazilian and U.S. imperial history from the 1960s, focused mostly on the 2000s, Lula along with Obama/Biden before explaining Bolsonaro, the possible coup, U.S. actions and finishes the podcast by looking at the coming year. He also explains the use of some key imperial political tools, especially the use of the judiciary to take power, specifically, the "lava jato" scandal which he takes apart. If you listen to the podcast you will understand lava jato.
Miers's take on Lula is detailed, nuanced and uncertain but hopeful. He doesn't see Lula as a savior or even uncorruptable but Miers supports him and is hopeful.
bottom line, lots of good people in Brazil who are suffering and who are also positioning themselves to push hard to take back their country. Looks like they might.

Posted by: migueljose | Sep 27 2021 14:50 utc | 151

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 14:15 utc | 146

Please, post links to studies on efficacy of Sinopharm's vaccine. I generally am busy working, so most likely missed some.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 14:54 utc | 152

@ Antonym & @ R M Rao

So it is the true, we see that at least one state used ivermectin and managed to reduce the infection/death rate.

That's very nice to know, to say the least. Covid is cured, it's just not politically correct to say it out loud yet, for some reasons, but we already the stealth usage of ivermectic around the globe. I suspect my vietnamese government has also gone this route, which explains why the death rate suddenly reduces by this month.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 27 2021 14:58 utc | 153

Posted by: gottlieb | Sep 27 2021 14:10 utc | 144

I agree, but it is an interesting article with many sources in the bibliography/references. People at MOA occasionally might like to discuss ideas found here on other platforms, I hope.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 14:58 utc | 154

@ William Gruff 150

Finally it becomes more legally visible that the conspiracy against Trump was set up in 2016 by HRC campaign lawyer Micheal Sussmann.

Trump's presidency was an single elite NY spanner in many elite Washington's wheels and deals, so good. That might have been why PM Modi liked him....

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 27 2021 15:07 utc | 155

vk @146:
Correct, Stalin was not the first. But merely an observation: whether it's fighter planes or vaccines, the Russians like to have one factory in the West - another, in the East. And if it's a railroad between West and East - two parallel lines, in case someone invades and overruns one railroad. At least that is what it looks like to an outsider. In Western Europe, they would close one factory and shut down one railroad, to cut costs. In Russia, they build two, so there is always one working.

Posted by: passerby | Sep 27 2021 15:08 utc | 156

Thank you, karlof1 and others commenting on Lavrov's UN speech. And thanks to you and others as well for the previous speech by Xi - the two speeches are different but complementary. Finally thanks to b for providing this weekly forum framework. So many ideas and discussions to explore!

Posted by: juliania | Sep 27 2021 15:18 utc | 157

Trump accomplished two major achievements. He dumped the Trans-Pacific Partnership, Obama’s signature trade deal, which would have been the basis for greater military engagement in Asia, and he produced the US-Taliban agreement that essentially said that the US/NATO lost the war and would pull out of Afghanistan, which Biden then did. These were two major steps toward the loss of US global hegemony.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 27 2021 15:22 utc | 158

psychohistorian @ 103
Yeah, he lays it out pretty clearly but much of the biology is above my pay grade. That said, one doesn't need to understand the biology details to appreciate how much lying is going on to sustain the fig leaf of cover over this global war crime.

It is way above my paygrade as well and it will take a month of Sundays to figure it out. In the west it is genocide in my view. I will use some of this information my personal battle to remain free and continue working with some of the knuckle draggers at the union hall. If I lose, retirement is here.

Now the Pfizer CEO says you need yearly shots or you must be pushed into a separate class. He looks like death warmed over.

Posted by: circumspect | Sep 27 2021 15:27 utc | 159

vk @ 134
Either way, the same argument goes to the vaccines - specially the non-mRNA ones, which are the ones that are going to be used in the Third World - they can also be mass produced to lower prices per unit, and they can also be stored at room temperature for a month, and at a common freezer for its full expiring date. The USD 8.00 per dose is the outdated price of the Chinese vaccine; I guess they're much cheaper now that they started mass obligatory vaccinations in the Mainland.

If I had the option I would consider taking the non MRNA shot. Proven technology vs. I don't know what the hell is going on. My rule is with cars and medicine, do not buy the first model year. It takes a few years to prove the technology and run the bugs out.

Posted by: circumspect | Sep 27 2021 15:39 utc | 160

Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 | 123
Nobody wants to talk about the truth Blue. They want to talk about "the science".

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 16:02 utc | 161

T. G. @ 116 The [left/right realities] are [philosophical] constructs created centuries ago [by the armies of writers who support for their living and advancement, the PIGOs] to protect the always slave owners of the Western world with their feeble reliance on Ancient Greek/Roman/pharaonic origins and capture of Abrahamic Religions to make such hierarchies in their subjects minds.

Excellent description of the control system propaganda that worked in the past.

Young minds, those who have not yet experienced the turmoils of earning a living, are taught in repeat after me fashion, "I am a mere student, I will always adopt into my belief system, to those whose profession it is to teach, what it is they say for it is not malicious propaganda, but conditions of my survival.

I admit I was born in the middle class. I promise to be loyal to all those in the class above me..and to always trample on those born to a class below my station, and to hate all those who not of my religion, my nationality, and my nation state, for I am being educated IOT support the privileges afforded those born to the upper class. I understand, if I do well, and if I follow the path my teachers have laid out for me, I will get an A and the PIGOs will continue their elite station in life.

Posted by: snake | Sep 27 2021 16:05 utc | 162

"Ivermectin, as you stated, is a daily treatment."
vk | Sep 27 2021 12:00 utc | 125

That's inaccurate. If you anxious about getting Covid you may take it on a daily basis.

The preferred protocol is to start a course at the first signs of symptoms or high viral load. Viral load becomes low within 48 hours with an average recovery of 5 days vs 10 days without it.

Never take a medication you do not need. Tho a walking pharmaceutical cocktail myself, I will be buying it for actual illness, not as a prophylactic.

Call it civil disobedience... or terrorism... it's time for more law breaking. Denounce me!!! Lol.

Anyways, this should be effective on the vaccinated as well. They will need it more than we will in all likelihood.

You have to consider populations as being in states of progression or as distinct types. I am alarmed at the news our Israeli lab rats are providing. This really doesn't look good and I don't welcome it.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 16:17 utc | 163

Thank you, pogo here @ 100. I enjoyed that read on Russia's expansion efforts. And I'm sure they have the example set by US expansion to examine and correct, as well as China's efforts. The best news for me was their turning away from GM manipulations, gene therapy for plants which has so wrecked the US, coming of course on the heels of Big Ag here. Crowded conditions in big cities was a good introduction to the piece.

The US needs to completely overhaul the agricultural system we have. There have always been small independent pockets aiming at better policies. Big is not better when it comes to agriculture. Land reform -- the land itself is crying out for it to happen. This land is our land; we need to take care of it.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 27 2021 16:34 utc | 164

So I have a question that I can actually ask given the site's commentators level of growth and development.

Btw, it's possible you are in the "ironic stage" of life. I know I am.

So is the universe filled with irony? If not, why would that even be a tendency? Hypothetically of course. Is it ironic to even ask the question?

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 16:43 utc | 165

Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 12:13 utc | 126

So, you're stating paying USD 1.80 per week for the rest of your life is cheaper than two USD 29.00 mRNA vaccine doses (the inactivated virus Chinese one, which is used in the vast majority of the Third World, is even cheaper, at USD 8.00 per dose)?
This is mathematics, not ideology.
vk | Sep 27 2021 12:30 utc | 130

Thanks for the prices btw. This is an option for the vulnerable.

So, I am stating paying USD 1.80 per week for a two week period until the person recovers.

I would expand that to include anyone found by contact tracing and at least warn them.

But you treat the disease when it appears. This is a strawman argument.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 16:55 utc | 166

I really wish we have more indian posters for more report on the actual situation on the ground in India, did the indians really beat Covid by using ivermectin?

Yes, the Indian provinces which embraced Ivermectin nailed the virus, and those like Tamil Nadu, which banned Ivermectin have cases out the Kazoo.

For charts and graphs showing this visit my VK page...


Posted by: George W Oprisko | Sep 27 2021 17:05 utc | 167

@ Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 16:55 utc | 166

Why wait for the disease "to appear" when you can comfortably take the two doses anytime and get rid of the stress?

Note that Ivermectin doesn't work. It is all conspiracy theory and pseudoscience. My point here is that, even if it worked, it would still be worse than taking the vaccine. After all, you could get the severe form of the disease, against which even the most pro-Ivermectin ideologue claims the drug will not work against. Why play Russian roulette?

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 17:07 utc | 168

vetinLA @99: "If you believe that, you might be a moron. Workers, as you know, exist in all flavors."

I may be a moron; won't argue that, but I am well aware that the working class is far more "diverse and inclusive" than the middle class. Always has been and always will be. The working class is not where the racism problem is in America. It's just that your moniker suggests that you are a Californian, and an LAian one at that. That's is like living amongst the plaster castles of Disneyland. LA is an entire city built around delusion and artifice. One cannot exist immersed in an environment such as that without some of the delusion soaking in, so it is natural to assume you would be infected with the pandemic of wokeness that is ravaging the West Coast. If you've somehow fought off infection from that debilitating disorder then you are to be commended and I apologize, but your frequent efforts to rehabilitate the term "liberal" leaves me suspicious nonetheless.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 27 2021 17:07 utc | 169

archeon | Sep 27 2021 13:00 utc | 137
Another buried tragedy in the opioid story is the backlash and restrictions on prescriptions so severe that the people that do need opioids, who typically live in missery regardless, can no longer get help they need.

This is the politics of medicine prior to the pandemic. Die in pain.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

I had prior drug and alcohol training and dodged that bullet. At the price of chronic pain for 20 years. I take arthrotec, smoke pot and stay active.

So you pick your poison. But opioid addiction is malpractice if not also addressed. It's a dark hole.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 17:36 utc | 170

@ Antonym
Did some provinces really treat people via ivermectin like the internet said?
Did you yourself encounter any antiviral drugs encouraged by the government?
Posted by: Smith | Sep 27 2021 12:24 utc | 128

Ivermectin has been VERY HEAVILY used in India, and many credit it as the main factor for bringing covid under control.

My understanding is that several major Ayurvedic medicines have also been widely used in India - I presume in parallel with ivermectin. There has also been a lot of pharmaceutical research in India on the benefits of ayurvedic medicines against covid-19, which have established that there are major benefits. Medicines that have been (I understand widely) used and researched include Andrographis paniculata, Phyllanthus amarus, Glycyrrhiza glabra, Tinospora cordifolia, Ocimum sanctum, Withania somnifera and many others. All are long-established through scientific research as effective against viruses in general including corona viruses.

Whilst I am convinced ivermectin has had a major effect in India, I suspect that the widespread (if it is indeed widespread, I cannot confirm that) use of ayurvedic medicines in combination has significantly enhanced that.

Maybe R M Rao can comment on how widespread use of ayurvedic medicines is in India for treating covid-19, and whether they are used in combination with ivermectin or as alternative?

By the way, the same ayurvedic medicines are also very effective as prophylactic. Andrographis paniculata has already been approved as a treatment for covid-19 in Thailand, and like most of the others is widely available throughout the region.

Posted by: BM | Sep 27 2021 17:47 utc | 171

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 17:07 utc | 168

Easy to defend vaccines when you have full choice as I assume you do in Brazil, but here in Europe it's mRNA only. Traditional vaccines being blocked only adds to suspicion of hidden intentions, the milder ones would be simple and banal profit but there could be something else, why block alternative vaccines and not allow the patient to choose?

Posted by: Paco | Sep 27 2021 17:49 utc | 172

Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 17:07 utc | 168

The mRNA vaccines do not work very well, apparently. Ask the Israelis who are now hoping four doses will do the trick since two have clearly not. Doesn't sound like these particular vaccines will get rid of the stress any time soon.

I really am not sure why you think Ivermectin is pseudoscience. Your stance seems clearly to be antiscience. I fail to understand your illogical position.

If you are referring solely to other vaccines such as inactive virus ones (Sinovac) and not the mRNA, then maybe you have a position. Read the article to understand why the mRNA vaccines may not be that effective.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 17:50 utc | 173

Note that Ivermectin doesn't work. It is all conspiracy theory and pseudoscience. My point here is that, even if it worked, it would still be worse than taking the vaccine. After all, you could get the severe form of the disease, against which even the most pro-Ivermectin ideologue claims the drug will not work against. Why play Russian roulette?
Posted by: vk | Sep 27 2021 17:07 utc | 168

Note that Ivermectin vaccines doesn't work. It is all conspiracy theory and pseudoscience. My point here is that, even if it worked, it would still be worse than taking the vaccineIvermectine. After all, you could get the severe form of the disease, against which even the most pro-Ivermectinvaccine ideologue claims the drug will not work against. Why play Russian roulette?

There, fixed it for you.


Note that vk doesn't make any sense. He is all conspiracy theory and pseudoscience. Why play Russian roulette with unproven experimental gene therapy that stopped animal testing because all the animals died?

Posted by: BM | Sep 27 2021 18:00 utc | 174

vk | Sep 27 2021 12:30 utc | 130

I think I understand your problem. You have not read the article so believe the arguments made encompass all vaccines, not just mRNA vaccines. You need to make clear which vaccines you are referring to. A vaccine based on traditional vaccine technology is, yes, cheaper to produce than mRNA vaccines, though not cheaper than a 5-day invermectin treatment, but that is irrelevant if the traditional vaccines work as advertised. Remember, the author is primarily interested in the mRNA vaccines here, not the others.

In any case, there seems to be sufficient evidence from India that ivermectin treatment when used early enough is effective. This does not mean that you need to refuse taking a traditional vaccine if known to be effective in reducing the transmission of the disease. MRNA vaccines are not clearly known to reduce transmission, but are feared to possibly cause the opposite in certain situations. The Isreali predicament is certainly an example of that.

Again, read the article posted at least three times above. It is very good at explaining some of this.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 27 2021 18:14 utc | 175

@Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 27 2021 14:43 utc | 150

Great points.

I think the bigger issue though is the awarding of large stock options to CEOs and senior executives from the 1980s onwards that incentivized them to prioritize the short-term share prices to gain massive riches that previous CEOs could not have dreamt of. The legalization of stock buybacks also facilitated this by allowing for massive borrowing to reduce the outstanding stock, ramping the share prices. The incredible thing was that the stock option price was not changed with a stock buyback, creating massive windfall profits for the executives who authorized the stock buybacks that reduced cash levels and/or massively increased leveraging. The "generic CEO" belief also allowed for CEO's jumping from one ship to another (especially now with all their ill-gotten wealth), rather than developing within a company and feeling part of that company. So the company just becomes a "set of cash flows" to be used for the benefit of the senior executive's and speculators wealth, and you don't need people with technical backgrounds to do that.

So we get generic CEOs in many cases, who are more focused on their image (especially at the elite dinner parties and cozy chats with politicians and regulators) than the long term success of their business. Add the complete lack of regulatory oversight on mergers and acquisitions and you have the perfect storm for looting. The Private Equity looters then just take this to a new level. Its a good cover to be all Woke while you completely shaft the workforce and the long term prospects of the company while massively enriching yourself and short term speculators.

By early 2020 the large US corporations had massively leveraged themselves and thrown away the "rainy day" cash positions that they should have in an orgy of buy-backs. That was the biggest reason that the government had to do the US$4 trillion corporate rescue plan and dump interest rates down to nearly nothing to allow big corporations to reliquary themselves through government largesse and new borrowing at very low interest rates. Low interest rates also ramp share prices as the discount rate used to calculate the NPV of a business is reduced.

The (legal) criminals need some way of averting attention from their looting, especially when the majority of the population is getting poorer, and Woke it is. As noted, Woke helps with "divide and conquer" as straight-forward racism is no longer tenable.

As does the delusions of young people (and their parents who should know better) taking liberal arts degrees so that they can become over-educated Woke baristas. Such degrees are useless without the social ties (e.g. elite prep schools) that replicate the elites, unless you are truly exceptional or a useful ideolgue/comprador for the lower classes - Kendi (middle class parents and private school) and Kamala (whose parents were both tenured academics) come to mind. Also Obama (Harvard-graduate black African elite father and elite-connected white mother and grandmother), Condoleezza Rice (childhood divorced from the civil rights movement and developed by the Foundations and George Schulz etc.), Susan Rice (elite parents and a Rhodes Scholar). Cooption works so much more smoothly than assassination and trumped up charges; as the elites have found out in the past few decades after destroying the 1960s radical leaders.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 27 2021 18:32 utc | 176

vk says white trash. When called out he does what any good Marxist would do, he starts a faction fight. Been that way since 1844. Do not take the bait.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Sep 27 2021 18:52 utc | 177

Finally it becomes more legally visible that the conspiracy against Trump was set up in 2016 by HRC campaign lawyer Micheal Sussmann.

Now there is a grand delusion if i ever saw one.

The facts show that the ringleader of "the conspiracy against Trump" was The Donald himself.
Trump was the one who created the phony story that Flynn lied to the FBI after the FBI had publicly stated that
Flynn had not lied.
It was Trump who created the phony story that he was pressuring FBI director Comey to go easy on Flynn and then Trump fired Comey because he refused. Again all this happened after the FBI agents who interviewed Flynn had already said on the record that Flynn did not lie.
And it was Trump who selected and hired Mueller to investigate all these phony stories that Trump had created.

All this was done to fool the rubes into believing that Trump was a heroic figure doing mortal combat with the deep state.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 27 2021 18:52 utc | 178

Again, covid-vaccines don't prevent one from contracting covid or spreading it to others. They only help mitigate the disease's severity, although in some cases that's clearly in dispute. Once the disease is contracted, treatment's still required to rid the body of the disease--vaccine's don't provide such treatment.

The vital info being withheld from the public--particularly in the West--is what can be used as effective treatment as all that's being said is a circular argument to get vaccinated, which isn't treatment.

Over time--generations--it's possible for vaccines to eradicate a virus, but we aren't anywhere near that point in the fight against the covid virus. Far more people would be alive today if treatment info was made widely available--published in all daily newspapers and broadcast on TV and Radio, none of which is occurring within the Outlaw US Empire--WHY?!?!!??? IMO, that's the question that must be posed to all medical practitioners and politicos.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 27 2021 19:02 utc | 179

Who is there to make them glad?
juliania @ 145
You've gotta look sharp!

(Joe Jackson)

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 19:18 utc | 180

Don Bacon 108
I am pretty sure that no president has any agency.
There is no left/right Trump/Biden/Obama when it comes to the big stuff. They might as well elect a potato.
The military feels free to overide special presidential orders ... the media shuts their mouths and any presidential decisions can be overturned by one of the many apparatus.
I still get reeled in too.

Posted by: ld | Sep 27 2021 19:23 utc | 181

New York hospitals prepare for staffing crisis as vaccination mandate forces mass firings

Posted by: Serg | Sep 27 2021 19:24 utc | 182

jinn | Sep 27 2021 18:52 utc | 178

Agreed that Trump was "one of them" and "permitted" to win.
I came across this info/ as a Twit a couple of days ago. Just to note that the voting irregularities have not been forgotten. Far from it. The date for the beginning of the use of Dominion voting machines was 2003.


Sidney Powell. She had a Deposition of Dominion exec yesterday [Eric Coomer, the antifa pig who fixed elections for the past decade?]

- There was a back door to the voting machines built in from the very beginning, starting back in 2003
- Government owns patent to access these machines
- Government has patent from 2006 to pre-determine outcome of all elections (Defense Dept)
- Since 2005, a small group of people have owned all the patents on all the voting machines
- Real-time monitoring of elections
- Real-time changing of election results
- Dominion assigned its patents one year before election to ...Hong Kong Shanghai bank of China
- Voting machines allow external access
- Dominion had 8-10 code writers in Serbia
- CIA owns Serbia
- Biden crime family has dealings in Serbia
Then ... she dropped THIS:
- 2005 patent was not filed by Department of Defense, but by ...
- National Institute of Health !!!
- She did not mention the name, but WHO runs NIH? TONY FAUCI !!!
The choice to know will be yours.
Now let this sink in a bit

Isolated tweet in a thread on another subject, Probabaly placed there to minimise risk of it being suppressed. However, I do not have any further information to add.

Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 27 2021 19:29 utc | 183

Hey james. Joe Jackson is an interesting artist due to his social and political commentary. From the same album,

"Look Sharp!"

He is known for one billboard level song ideal for this audience,

"Sunday Papers"

And "(Do the) Instant Mash"

And where a lot of his material addressed romance in a cynical way my favorite was

"Happy Loving Couples"

Which touched on the incel concept long before it was a "thing".

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 19:36 utc | 184

vk | Sep 27 2021 17:07 utc | 168
It's fine to debate it. (No offense intended)

* Note that Ivermectin doesn't work.
Sure it does.

* It is all conspiracy theory and pseudoscience.
You can track the ongoing studies in real time.

My point here is that, even if it worked, it would still be worse than taking the vaccine.
You compare not just the effects of a medicine but risks and side effects. Ivermectin looks safer but a lot of data is getting cooked. We'll see.

* After all, you could get the severe form of the disease, against which even the most pro-Ivermectin ideologue claims the drug will not work against.
Again I disagree but will fact check my information on this.

* Why play Russian roulette?
I agree. If you are at risk pay for it as a prophylactic.

I am reluctant to recommend a traditional vaccine. That's a maybe. Spike proteins are a toxin regardless of the formula.

There are numerous reasons to discontinue mRNA vaccines pending further information. They're killing more people than they are saving. The proof is in the public domain now.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 19:59 utc | 185

William Gruff @ 169 It could be worse sir. I thought Vet In LA looked after dogs and that poor man's wife Debs Is Dead.
Debs lives on!!! Right here.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 27 2021 20:05 utc | 186

stonebird @183

You are a mess of contradictions. First you point out it matters not who you vote for and then you start babbling about about voting irregularities as if you think it does matter.

The way I understand the Dominion voting machines just scan paper ballots that have been marked by voters.
The ballots are preserved and when there is a recount the original paper ballots can be used to check the accuracy of the machines ability to scan the ballots. This what they did in Georgia and found that the Dominion machines had tabulated the hand marked paper ballots accurately. The interesting thing about Georgia is that, in 2016 when Trump won Georgia, that state was using a touch screen system where the machines left no paper trail and that means no possibility of auditing and no way of knowing if the machines were accurately recording the votes.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 27 2021 21:02 utc | 187

@ Posted by: snake | Sep 27 2021 16:05 utc | 162

Thanks for hearing. You are seeing what I write.

There is so much camouflage and smoke and mirrors in all btl sites commentators.

It is simple if anyone is a real fighter against the Empire we were born and live in, I’ll put it as simply as I can.

1. It’s always been lies and fairytales.
2. Don’t shit on these considered below you.
3. Don’t hit out at these who are around you.
4. Only and always punch UP even if you can’t see them!
Bring down the sky they sit on. Even if it means we are destroying the houses of cards they have given us to believe are our castles.

Be a Samson in this life we are in to stop the never ending hierarchy getting away with murder and slavery through countless generations.

Bernhard and this site MoA is historically a fount of truth from whence the world can be changed.

Always aim up.

Posted by: D.G. | Sep 27 2021 21:44 utc | 188

@179 Cont'd--

I asked my wife who is a certified medical billing coder if she's seen any specific codings implemented for treatment of covid as opposed to hospitalization, and she said very few since there generally isn't any follow-up to those cured of covid. In other words, there's zero follow-up to discover how they were able to defeat the disease. Now, that struck us both as being rather odd in the case of a new virus, where one would think scientists would want to follow patients from beginning to end. Now, I'm willing to bet the USA's national debt that China does exactly that type of patient tracking, which is why it's been so successful at treatment and containment. And again today, Biden's getting jabbed yet again and saying that until 98% of the USA's populace is vaccinated, covid will remain a problem--but not one little word about what one can do if they get the virus.

No talk about treatment versus non-stop demands for vaccinations or else ought to make one ask why. Treatments are needed regardless if the infected were vaccinated or not. And then there's essentially zero choice when it comes to which vaccine to take, which IMO violates informed consent. We do know that the Outlaw US Empire's government lies about everything and anything and thus has zero credibility; so, why should it be believed when it comes to the many versions of available vaccines? And why hasn't some sort of general order been issued regarding treatment? And then there're those who've developed natural immunity without getting vaccinated, yet there's no exemption for them from mandatory vaccination. Why?

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 27 2021 21:45 utc | 189

BM @171
Ayurvedic medicine is deregulated and hence no prescription is needed to take them. Even without Kovid almost all people try alternative medicines if the benefit from western medicines is slow/ costly. By the way in in India you need Doctors prescription to get ivermectin but as with all other things you can get it from pharma shops if you are friendly with the shopkeeper(pharmacist). All vitamins zinc tablets are OTC.

Posted by: R M Rao | Sep 27 2021 21:46 utc | 190

karlof1 189

I have been looking at all the same questions, especially the mandatory vaccination of those who have already had covid. The only answer I can come up with is these vaccines, more so Pfizer, are protection from a yet to be released strain or perhaps another pathogen entirely.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 27 2021 22:14 utc | 191

So a Washington State Patrol Officer, Officer Gunderson, has recently succumbed to Covid. He was known in the state for pioneering drone technology to quickly gather info about accident scenes, such as the DuPont Amtrak derailment in 2017. His demise has been plastered all over the local rags in our local blue states, mostly as a propaganda piece to encourage vaccination.

Being a 38 year old and fit male, the immediate thought is to inquire about his vaccination status. But au contraire! According to the WSP twitter thread announcing his untimely death, pro-mandaters are ready to fling poop all over his reputation but immediately concluding without evidence thst he deserved to die because he was not vaccinated. Nowhere in the stories announcing his death, whether the Oregonian or the Seattle Times, made clear what his vaccination status was at the time of death. Here is the MSM pickup of the story.

What is interesting, though, if you read the story in the above link, is the statement that whether or not he was vaccinated was a personal matter!!!

Excuse me, motherfucker?!?

Y'all have been parading around for months story after story of obese unvaccinated dying from covid, clearly stating their vaccination status in the articles, in an effort to scare people into waddling up to the ad hoc vaccination tents which are dying for more visitors.

And now y'all won't come clean as to this fit, 38 year old's vaccine status for privacy reasons. Damn, that is some straight-up gaslighting BS!

You know what I think? I think this dude got the jab. And they are bending over backwards right now to contain the possible fallout from a fit 38 year old dying from covid after "immunization." That is my hunch anyway. Will keep you informed, because judging from the twitter feed, people want to know about his status and it is only a matter of time before a family member will come clean with the truth.

This could be big.

@ Gruff 150

Yes, thx for clearing up jackrabbit's assertion versus the other possible and more probable reality that Trump was a hamd grenade that slipped into the elite's inner sanctum on the wave of popular support.

Also, your assignment of rational thinking among deplorables versus irrational, college-educated in the social sciences. I am in agreement this is a better way to look at the situation.

Many thanks to you for taking the time to put down such readable posts with wonderful punctuation and clarity of argument. It elevates the discussion here immensely.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 27 2021 22:22 utc | 192

Thank you, B, for drawing attention to the article about Assange. It is very long, and I hope to find time to read the whole thing. Is Yahoo (of all people!) going to set the standard for muckraking?

Posted by: Platero | Sep 27 2021 22:34 utc | 193

Some interesting observations from Google Maps:
1. The business across the street from the Ecuadorian embassy is "Car Rental Software"
2. Harrods has a loading dock in the Ecuadorian building, a full block away from the mall? Did "Harrods" have to dig a tunnel under the Ecuadorians?

Posted by: Platero | Sep 27 2021 22:39 utc | 194

The Collision of Two Opposing Green Destinies: COP26 and East Anglia’s Fraud (Matthew Ehret, Strategic Culture)

"With the world gearing up for Mark Carney’s upcoming COP26 Climate Summit in the UK this October 31"to November 12, "it is worth asking: Will China and India collaborate with other nations of the multipolar alliance once more to save the world from a supranational world government?

"The fact is that today’s efforts by an international financial elite to lock nation states into binding carbon reduction treaties is nothing new and was first attempted in December 2009. This was a period of profound instability as the world economy was trembling on a near meltdown of a $700 billion speculative bubble. We were also told that a new black plague was emerging with a novel influenza virus called H1N1. Back then, the Belt and Road Initiative was still four years from coming online, and Presidents Qaddafi, Assad, Mubarak and Bashir still could not guess what horrors they would yet face under the new regime change operation then still in its planning phase.

"But just like today, the goals behind COP14 were clear: Create new supranational mechanisms capable of penalizing nations from breaking CO2 reduction targets between 2009 and 2050. This new order of governance would of course only function through the creation of 1) a new system of global technocratic controls to help nations adapt to the new era of scarcity and de-growth, and 2) a new post-nation state system enforcing a rules-based order which could trump the wishes of selfish sovereign nation states who might otherwise make decisions in defense of their people instead of “wise” computer models."

"On November 17, 2009, a major scandal erupted when 61 MB of data comprising thousands of emails internally circulated among the directors and researchers at East Anglia University’s Climate Research Unit (CRU) were made public....what was verified throughout the hundreds of emails between director Phil Jones and the teams of climatologists staffing the CRU was that vast scales of fraud were committed. Jones himself was caught red handed demanding that data sets be ignored and massaged in order to justify the climate models (such as Michael Mann’s fraudulent “hockey stick” made famous by Al Gore) which had all been used to sell the idea that CO2 was the greatest threat to humanity."

During COP14..."Not only did Chinese and Indian delegates lock themselves in a room alongside other nations of the global south (notably including Sudan), refusing entry of Hillary Clinton and other western puppets attempting to “help” reach a consensus, but the leaders of both nations blocked all binding agreements from being set in stone.

"In December 2009, a former chief economic advisor to Putin stated that Russia had sent data to East Anglia’s CRU from 476 meteorological stations covering over 20% of the globe’s surface hosting a wide range of data from as far back as 1865 to 2005. Dr. Illarionov explained that he was dismayed to see that Phil Jones and the CRU entirely ignored the data from all but 121 stations. From those stations they did use, Jones and his team artificially cherry-picked data that gave off the false result that temperatures between 1860-1965 were 0.67 degrees colder than they truly were while temperatures from 1965-2005 were made artificially high."

"Today, 12 years of propaganda have attempted to wipe Climate Gate from the internet and our collective memory as the same fallacious models and data sets have continued to be used to justify the sort of panicky fear-driven decisions to radically alter civilization forever."

COP26 will again pit the west against the China-led alternative:

"Two Opposing Paths to a Green Future...

"Where one defines “sustainable development” as a euphemism for de-growth (and de-population) under a unipolar rules-based international order, the other looks towards “sustained development” as a driving force for long term growth, multipolarism and even population increases premised on large scale capital-intensive infrastructure building."

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 27 2021 22:52 utc | 195

ut 114 stated; "On the contrary the working classes have endured generation after generation of
shoot-to-kill orders to the Pinkerton men or the cops or the national guard in the USA. That does tend to dampen the get out and get bold approach to resistance and demonstrations and so on."

Very true, but, enduring it IS the problem. There are alternatives, like supporting the people and
causes they say they believe in, with a donation, which most workers do not. They'd rather hide and bitch than part with even a small amount of their $.

As a on the floor union rep for 40yrs. Even getting most workers to file a legitimate grievance against their employer is almost impossible. Most react like frightened cattle..

THAT, is the essence of the problem. Being afraid to confront authority. And that is 98% of most workers today.

Posted by: vetinLA | Sep 27 2021 23:41 utc | 196

ADKC @195--

IMO, Ehret is way off base with that essay as in the first place he gets the reason for the 2008 financial crisis completely wrong: massive amounts of fraudulent lending, illegal speculating in markets--both stocks and bonds--and the complete abdication of enforcement led to the destruction of one of the largest private banks then in existence (more ought to have followed in its wake) and many billions in losses of capital for ordinary citizens through pension funds and other investment instruments--none of whom were bailed out unlike the criminal banksters that caused the entire mess. That entire debacle led to a huge loss of credibility for both government and business which proved them to be Anti-Human. That was swiftly followed by the Kosovo debacle then the illegal war waged on Libya.

After reading his essays for five years now, I can declare Ehret to be a very conflicted man being Anti-Science and Pro-Science simultaneously. If he would just focus on the rise of Neoliberalism where he's very good, he'd have a strong following.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 27 2021 23:43 utc | 197

"but your frequent efforts to rehabilitate the term "liberal" leaves me suspicious nonetheless."

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 27 2021 17:07 utc | 169

Again, the word "liberal" needs no rehabilitation, it's meaning has long been determined.

If you can find one who, nowdays, fits the definition, please tell us all..

Posted by: vetinLA | Sep 27 2021 23:52 utc | 198

@167 George W Oprisko

Finally I and others are answered as to the meaning of INDY in your posts. It's your signature. Of course, so simple. Very friendly.

All this time I thought it had to be an acronym for something stentorian of biblical proportions.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 27 2021 23:54 utc | 199

Even though not all the states in India deployed an ivermectin regime (as noted, those that did reaped amazing results), the overall numbers for the country seem hugely lower than the UK and USA:
Worldometer: Covid Live Update

And that's in absolute terms, not even per the population, which of course would lower India's numbers, and increase the Anglo world's shame, correspondingly.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 27 2021 23:58 utc | 200

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