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September 9, 2021
Open Thread 2021-69
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Lol. Ok thanks for that. Just want to say ONS and these I quote are not a government department. There is no minister in charge. It is as independent as they come. Reporting data to Parliament. I agree that government has been putting out fake data. Not these lot. It may be delayed or hard to find but they have to present data sets.
It’s the conclusion of that particular analysis I want confirming. If you can’t help that’s ok.
Thanks for your reply.
Posted by: DG | Sep 11 2021 16:57 utc | 199
Sorry to have to disillusion you, but ONS have been actively involved in misinformation and the manipulation of statistics right from the start of the Covid-19 saga. You could try searching for some of my comments around May 2020, I wrote several times about ONS’s disingenuous sleights of hand. That misinformation is deliberate, and it is done as government policy. The ONS is a part of the government.
It is unclear what conclusions you want. If you want to know what can legitimately be concluded from the study, I have given that answer – little or nothing. If you want to know what the authors say they conclude from the data (whether through their own stupidity or through dishonesty) – basically they are saying the vaccines are wonderful, best thing since sliced bread, have long-lasting results, etc. Does the fact that their conclusions are scientifically invalid interest you?
Posted by: BM | Sep 11 2021 17:29 utc | 201
@ snake 194
…and the laws the court has allowed as constitutional. . .The object of constitutions is to provide all parties the means (a framework) to deal with issues that have not been resolved by accord. . .the Bill of Rights (the accords), binds. . .
You are following along with the establishment strategy that falsely claims that we derive our human rights from the Constitution, which was a document that establishes the form of government. Truthfully here is no “bill of rights.” There are some amendents which prohibit the government from messing with certain rights, and “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people” — Eleventh Amendment. . . It’s only amusing that thirty rich guys two hundred years ago might determine our human rights. No.
So let’s instead go to the Declaration of Independence. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. . .” Or the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights including: “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.”
So when Chief Justice Roberts says (as he has said) that there is no right of abortion in the Constitution, we can and should tell him to stick it. But also there is no right during a pandemic for somebody with a fatal, communicable disease, unmasked, to enter a room full of people. The right to life and liberty of the masses outweigh the liberty of one, just as no man has the right to exhibit his liberty by shooting another man, nor especially dozens of men.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 11 2021 17:31 utc | 202
Norwegian @Sep11 15:55 #190
When all you’ve got is a hammer …
But now they’ve got needles too. Ouch.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 11 2021 16:59 utc | 200
Evidently they are using media hammers to hammer in the needles …
Posted by: BM | Sep 11 2021 17:35 utc | 203
snake @ 194
Well, yes. I would largely agree with all of your comment. It does strike me that at this forum and others like it very few seem even mildly concerned by the fact that we now live in a dictatorship. Parsing Jacobson and enabling legislation for OSHA is pettifogging rubbish. A senile dotard whose handlers are anonymous rules the land by fiat and all the good socialists and libertarians look the other way. Orange Man Bad and the Russians Are Coming so count your blessings, it could be worse than Old White Joe. What?
Forced myself to watch most of Biden’s speech the other day and read the rest. Sounds like an angry old Irish drunk looking for a fight. Preferably a let’s you and him fight, while the Irish patrician watches in amusement. Meanwhile every MSM outlet in the land is braying for summary punishment for the unvaxxed heathens. They want us dead and aren’t shy about saying so. We defend ourselves with sophistry.
Posted by: Oldhippie | Sep 11 2021 19:10 utc | 204
The hypocrisy never ends……..
“Members of Congress, their staff, and federal court system employees are exempt from the Biden administration’s new vaccine mandates, according to Newsweek.”
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Sep 11 2021 19:42 utc | 205
Posted by: BM | Sep 11 2021 17:29 utc | 202
Ok… Let’s dance.
What exactly did you say about the ONS lying last year? Link please.
ONS is THE hatch match and despatch number gathering agency. They also do the census every 10 years. Their main purpose is to GATHER data.
It was their data that proved the number of EXCESS DEATHS from all causes being 75k higher than the 5 year average. When the government was claiming it was half that!
They proved the Government numbers to be wrong and grossly understated.
I like science and DATA. They are the people who gather that data. Unfortunately for the Government, they can’t control that.
Moving on to my initial question. Your interpretation of the conclusion is not how I see it.
To me it seems to say that natural infection and recovery confers GREATER immunity than vaccines for these previously uninfected.
Do you disagree?
I don’t know if you have a agenda and if that is something to to do with Covid denialism. Is it?
Posted by: DG | Sep 11 2021 20:48 utc | 206
c1ue #193
I’ve been saying for years that Erdogan is out for Erdogan.
He has, is and will continue to fan dance in front of everyone under the sun to get whatever he can.
No agreement he makes is worth the paper its printed on.
Precisely that! Narcissistic derangement within every cell. He is not alone among world leaders unfortunately.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 11 2021 21:05 utc | 207
BM @Sep11 17:35 #204: media hammers
Good point!
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 11 2021 21:48 utc | 208
What extremes will the US and five-eyes go to to retain dominance? This business of basically mandatory vaccinations and only five-eyes vaccines allowed with pfizer which appears to be the most ineffective and most side effects being pushed the most?
Some time ago, I think it was Lavrov who asked the question of why US embassies in Russia was collecting blood samples from Russians, and also some take on US developing a bio agent to target genetics.
That five-eyes are virtually making it mandatory with vaccine passport type rules, even though it is the vaccinated carrying the virus to the unvaccinated puts the unvaccinated at risk rather than the vaccinated.
It seemed a bit way out when I first thought about it, but now I think there is a reasonable possibility we are actually being vaccinated against something yet to be released.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 11 2021 22:21 utc | 209
When I have been looking at China/Russia vs US I look at kinetic and electronic weapons systems what state the countries are in ect and their history. Any next major war I expected to be missile. WWI was battleships and trenches, WWII aircraft, aircraft carries and tanks, and any major war in this era mostly missile, conventional or nuclear.
Biological I now think must put there beside the missile as a very likely form a war between great powers would take in this era. Stealth, surprise deception ect is a big part in any war strategy. Bio attack most likely would not risk an instant military response from its targets.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 11 2021 22:48 utc | 210
I just caught this through ZH but posted at Summit News
Study Finds Teenage Boys Six Times More Likely to Suffer Heart Problems From Vaccine Than be Hospitalized by COVID
The opening quote
”
Research conducted by the University of California has found that teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems caused by the COVID-19 vaccine than to be hospitalized as a result of COVID-19 itself.
”
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 12 2021 2:09 utc | 211
Whatever happened to manhood? When I was young and in the military, with overseas orders, I got in line with the rest, rolled up my sleeve and took the several prescribed shots. . . Now it’s cry-baby time, with reports from Israel and California and you name it, overcoming people with all kinds of information, tons of it, that only cause needless grief about vaccinations which have thoroughly proved themselves when one looks at the death rates with and without. Well boo-hoo. It’s too easy to be overcome with information.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 12 2021 2:45 utc | 212
U.S. China: Biden calls Xi
Alexander Mercouris has another stunning and penetrating analysis of Biden’s call to Xi: very long video– 1hr, 9min– well worth the time. a few main points:
*Biden called Xi to reassure him that the U.S. is not willing to go to war over Taiwan. Mercouris points out a similar call Biden made to Putin in April over Ukraine. If true, this is huge and indicates at least the dominant factions of the Biden admin are using the telephone to call Putin and Xi to specifically reassure them that they aren’t willing to fight over ukraine and Taiwan.
*China’s readout (press release) is again much longer, more detailed and reveals lots of details the u.s. readout omits which again exposes the duplicity and deceptive nature of the u.s. administration.
*Xi insisted– as putin, lavrov, Wang and others– that “pick and choose” diplomacy is a non-starter. Climate change cooperation can only proceed with mutual respect and conformity to diplomatic protocol on all issues. No more ambushes!
I can’t overstate the importance of Mercouris’s posts: he reads both press releases (the u.s. and China in this case) and then pulls them apart with nuance and insight i have never seen anywhere. On China, Russia, he’s simply the best. middle East he’s good too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP2oHiIS32A
Posted by: migueljose | Sep 12 2021 3:22 utc | 213
migueljose 214
US is the black sheep of perfidious albions family. And not for the better. Perfidious Albion was a very much merit based title bestowed upon it.
Roves quote “we create reality” is still in play.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 12 2021 5:18 utc | 214