Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 30, 2021

60 Hours After Publishing A Fake News Report On Afghanistan The New York Times Still Spreads The Story

On Tuesday I provided that the New York Times and CNN were spreading fake news about Taliban policy in Afghanistan by quoting a hoax tweet from an imposter's Twitter account.

Forty-eight hours later both stories are still uncorrected despite the fact that many have have pointed out the 'error' in them.


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The Washington Post though, which had also run a story quoting the tweet, has applied a correction. On top of its piece it now says:

Correction: An earlier version of this article attributed comments to Mohammad Ashraf Ghairat, the new chancellor of Kabul University, that appeared on a Twitter account in his name. Subsequent messages on the account asserted the actual user was a Kabul University student who tweeted “fake” words to raise awareness of the Taliban’s policy. The article has been corrected.

Further down it explains:

Adding to the uncertainty were messages that appeared this week on a Twitter account in the name of Mohammad Ashraf Ghairat, appointed last week as the university’s chancellor. One warned that women would not be able to allowed to attend universities or work.

Some suggested the messages were the work of an impostor. On Wednesday, new tweets appeared on the account saying the user was a 20-year-old student of the law and political science faculty who had been “pretending to be the new chancellor” with “fake” words that he hoped would “awaken Afghans, and the world to put pressure on Taliban to open the schools and universities.”

"Some suggested" does an awful lot of work here when one considers that 'some' included various Afghan media and the University of Kabul and that its 'suggestion' was a statement which explicitly denied that its chancellor has any social media accounts. 'Some suggested' also proves that the original article was never fact checked.

What this suggests to me is that the 'journalist' and 'editors' at the Washington Post were just as lazy as those at the New York Times, CNN and elsewhere. That they did not even attempted to verify the person behind that Twitter account or the content of the tweet. It was too conforming with their own myths and opinions about the Taliban to be held in doubt.

Moreover they still have not explained who the person behind the imposter account, which is now back online, really is and what its real motives are. Nor have they explained the real official Taliban policy with regards to the university.

I for one, judging from the language in the imposter latest Twitter thread, have strong doubts that the person behind the fake Mohammad Ashraf Ghairat account is a real Afghan student or even in Afghanistan. I find it way more likely that the imposter is part of an anti-Taliban astroturf campaign.

Now let us recall that the media who run this fake story and their 'journalists' are the very same who have for years accused Russia and other countries of providing 'fake news' just because some stories on Russia Today did not fit with their own warped worldview. It is obvious now that it was just another incident of them projecting their own attitude towards truth onto others.

Posted by b on September 30, 2021 at 14:27 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Nobody except Amerikastani "English" speakers use, let alone start a statement with, the word "folks". It can't be, therefore, a part of the Modi regime fake news factory in India, and the fact that the account has been revived strongly points to an origin in the Amerikastani propaganda apparatus, probably the CIA.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 30 2021 14:35 utc | 1

By the way, your "have pointed out" link just leads back to the MOA site.


If it were a genuine Afghan law student of Kabul U, how long would it have taken for the Taliban to track him down, and how could be possibly have been unaware that they would track him down from all the "clues" he left?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 30 2021 14:40 utc | 2

There is also much made of the narrative that the Taliban are letting opium production and export flourish according to the Telegraph (Who have gone full on propaganda since the withdrawal) but prices are apparently skyrocketing (Presumably implying diminished supply or restricted ability to sell)according to the AFP.

https://news.yahoo.com/prices-soar-opium-market-taliban-032131814.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/business-usual-afghan-opium-trade-taliban-ban-fails-materialise/

Who to trust?

Posted by: Altai | Sep 30 2021 14:50 utc | 3

Thanks b. "It was too conforming with their own myths and opinions about the Taliban to be held in doubt." That sums it up perfectly. Thanks for that.

Posted by: Michael Crockett | Sep 30 2021 14:58 utc | 4

Next someone claiming to be a 12 year old girl will start blogging and tweeting accusations against the Taliban as happened in Syria.

Posted by: Edward | Sep 30 2021 14:59 utc | 5

Perhaps it is time to stop twittering. After all, the little swift-swallows I love to hear chittering to one another out here lined up on the lamppost with friends and neighbors, who soar about when there are clouds and keep our mosquitoes in check, the other day and took off for warmer climes.

I miss them, but they will be back in the spring. I hope I'm still around to greet them.

Maybe less twittering and newspapers will go back to hiring extra folk to actually report what is happening on the ground instead of floating in the air - wouldn't that be a thing?

Posted by: juliania | Sep 30 2021 15:56 utc | 6

Isn't the NYT a caputred body a government outlet, so the whole idea is a to smear the new Taliban government whether its true or not, American's will have read the story and in most part believed it, job done. Expect drone bombing to commence shortly.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 30 2021 15:59 utc | 7

whenever an MSM outlet gets caught in a lie - this, russiagate, hunter biden's sticky laptop - they never admit it and just double down. as annoying as it is, it just reminds me of the parable everyone has probably heard that ends with "...because i'm a f_cking snake". most NYT readers are over-educated yuppies...a good portion of whom i suspect are in their 40s and up. they're beyond hope at this point as are any readers of huffpost, wapo, etc.

it's fun to point out their idiocy for a while as long as you don't go down the rabbit hole like greenwald or taibbi. anyone going to MSM outlets for "facts" is basically someone wanting r. kelly to babysit their daughter. there is no cure for willful stupidity.

Posted by: the pair | Sep 30 2021 16:07 utc | 8

Exactly, "folks" is an American word. Americans are so unprofessional and uncivilized that their Presidents actually use this word a lot in their public statements and diplomacy. Obama used it all the time. Biden does too.

That Twitter account is an American operation.

Posted by: Prof | Sep 30 2021 16:23 utc | 9

@Prof

I think it was Bush junior who introduced this parlance as a way to pretend the blue-blooded rich boy from New Haven whose father was president and lived up to a certain version of that background stereotype, that he was, in fact, a working class Texan. So he used the word 'folks' a lot. It bled into the MSM talking-heads when they were trying to understand the common 'folks' or trying to talk about them.

Obama kept it up as partly to make him seem more down to Earth and also to seem more African-American. Thereafter it just became a common term among the DC aristocracy. Normal people in America don't use the word much except among certain accents such as many Southern or derived accents, such as black dialects.

Posted by: Altai | Sep 30 2021 16:33 utc | 10

Isn't 'folks' a German word? Didn't Hitler call it the Folks Wagon?

I use the word all the time. It's charming.

On a side note, I've always wondered how one becomes a paid troll. Are there like recruiting centers or something? I've always dreamed of getting paid for all the work I did for Putin during Russia-gate. Anyway, that's all folks.

Posted by: gottlieb | Sep 30 2021 16:57 utc | 11

About Gottlieb's post: The US use of "folks" is a plural, "Howdy folks" for example, never "Howdy folk". The German use is a collective noun, the folk, so Volkswagon is 'wagon of the folk' not 'wagon of the folks'. Horribly pedantic but important to realise that the offending tweet was idiomatically and deliberately US. It reads like a parody account and NYT should be humiliated by its lack of professionalism (or worse).

Posted by: Loftwork | Sep 30 2021 17:17 utc | 12

@11 Trolls don't necessarily get paid. Often they do it for personal reasons or they enjoy the fun and excitement.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/104974643/how-trolls-make-money-from-their-online-hate-speech

Posted by: dh | Sep 30 2021 17:18 utc | 13

A signature tome for our times:

https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on-bullshit

Posted by: jayc | Sep 30 2021 17:21 utc | 14

Why they won’t issue a correction is that they want to keep this story going as long as they possibly can. They want it to sink in deep into people’s minds.

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Sep 30 2021 17:29 utc | 15

This a.m.at coffee spoke to a reporter. Freelance, mostly associated with our local rags. In distant past his byline has appeared in NYT. When the conversation got to “did you see in the Times...” I responded that I don’t read the gutter press. He had heard that one before. And did not argue the point.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Sep 30 2021 17:32 utc | 16

Regardless of the use of the word 'folk', given the linguistic makeup of Afghanistan, any communication from supposed Afghan officials delivered purely in English should automatically be suspect (especially if it's addressed to Afghan people).

Posted by: Sid Victor Cattoni | Sep 30 2021 17:33 utc | 17

The use of "folks" in US politics is generally an attempt to be "folksy", and "folks" is the US colloquial form of folk, "old folks home" for retirement home for example, folks there meaning "people's". Politically it is always indicative of a phony.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 30 2021 17:34 utc | 18

@Edward | Sep 30 2021 14:59 utc | 5

Next someone claiming to be a 12 year old girl will start blogging and tweeting accusations against the Taliban as happened in Syria.

Indeed!

Or a 15 year old girl knowing everything there is to know and then some about the climate.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2021 17:36 utc | 19

@Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2021 17:36 utc | 19

"Or a 15 year old girl knowing everything there is to know and then some about the climate."

Oh will you stop polluting actual real discussion with such mendacious misdirection! We are talking about Afghanistan, keep to the damn topic and use the open threads for such things. This will be my only comment on this as I do not want to feed the constant hijacking of discussion threads. The Syrian stuff is relevant, your comment is just bullshit redirection.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 30 2021 18:05 utc | 20

It seems like this ought to be a categorical tag since b writes about them so often:

"Oh! What a Tangled Web We Weave/When First We Practice to Deceive!"

Here's another excellent example, "Ex-CIA chief’s call to prosecute sources who outed alleged plot to target Assange ‘CONFIRMS’ story, WikiLeaks editor-in-chief says".

Written in 1808, the cited adage notes such behavior's existed for millennia, but I would argue the degree of veracity existing within discourse has eroded substantially since the widespread use of propaganda to the point now where few publications credibility can be accepted without doubt. Yes, there's a very good reason I call it BigLie Media, and it consists of all major Western publications and electronic media. I've reached the point where I don't even bother to read, view or listen to their contents. And the lack of credibility is the #1 reason why so many refuse to get jabbed with an admittedly experimental vaccine that doesn't prevent one from getting ill from the virus or spreading it.

I see the outright lying and deception as diseases far more dangerous than Covid since they've brought about the deaths and devastation of hundreds of millions since their deliberate application by those entrusted to govern. Ultimately, lying and deceiving are forms of corruption, and the weight of that corruption is one major factor in the West's demise, for it's been ongoing for 140 years. Meanwhile, the SCO group calls for openness, transparency and honesty in all relations based on the UN Charter. The immorality related to the ongoing corruption is yet another factor driving the Multipolar movement that's seldom commented upon but's very real. The vast majority of humanity is beyond tired of having to deal with it and is collectively beginning to shout Ya Basta!!

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2021 18:10 utc | 21

@Roger20. Hardly. pointing out similarities in the way the overlords use young people, is hardly irrelevant.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 30 2021 18:15 utc | 22

I also thought by first time reading, I heard Islam first First time. This is so American made like Hollywood.

Posted by: rico rose | Sep 30 2021 18:20 utc | 23

>>>>>>Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 30 2021 14:40 utc | 2

Try here until b changes the link.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 30 2021 18:22 utc | 24

@ Altai 10
I think it was Bush junior who introduced this [folks] parlance
Nope, it goes back decades. I heard it in the US government.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 30 2021 18:36 utc | 25

Journalists can be lazy because they're not hired to write the truth, but rather to produce pro-US articles that grab people's interest.
Let's go back in time, to Dan Rather who was the big news guy on CBS television. . .from Norman Solomon's "War Made Easy" -- How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death.

Dan Rather, an iconic US journalist: "Look I'm an American. I never tried to kid anybody that I'm some internationalist or something. And when my country is at war, I want my country to win, whatever the definition of 'win' might be. Now, I can't and don't argue that that is coverage without prejudice. About that I am prejudiced." So Dan brought us through the criminal war against Vietnam and the Nixon presidency.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 30 2021 18:45 utc | 26

"Normal people in America don't use the word much except among certain accents such as many Southern or derived accents, such as black dialects."

Altai @ 10. Great comment. Another place you see this used is why I use it. It's common as you said and also gender neutral when avoiding being repetitive.

As noted, saying 'people', 'citizens', 'humans' can reflect different tones in context that to me can sound overly formal, arrogant, ideological and so on.

Anyways I think you nailed it.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 30 2021 18:56 utc | 27

I have an idea. Maybe one of the bar flies could contact the university on behalf of the bar flies and b and request a clarification on female working conditions and attendance there.

Why not? We need to adapt.
Does anybody speak the language?

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 30 2021 19:00 utc | 28

"We tortured some folks." -Obomber

Posted by: HD | Sep 30 2021 19:01 utc | 29

the NYT and the ruling class in America are shameless


all the fake news that's unfit to print

Posted by: michaelj72 | Sep 30 2021 19:02 utc | 30

"Folks" is Nazi dogwhistle for "the people" just like "Homeland" is for "the Nation."

Posted by: NOBTS | Sep 30 2021 19:03 utc | 31

# 19 and 22 Norwegian and Tannerhouser

Next someone claiming to be a 12 year old girl will start blogging and tweeting accusations against the Taliban as happened in Syria.

Indeed!
Or a 15 year old girl knowing everything there is to know and then some about the climate.

You both seen rather eager to find an opportunity to insult a teenager. But the two situations mentioned above are not really equivalent. It is a lot easier for a bilingual Swede to get access to publicly available reports on global climate change than it is for a 12 year old Syrian to get accurate information on what is happening in a country being ripped apart by war.

Posted by: Fnord13 | Sep 30 2021 19:03 utc | 32

@Fnord13. Pretty sure Roger isn't a teenager, not sure about yourself. Please show where either one of us (Norwegian Tannenhouser) was actually insulting towards teenagers? Ill wait. Until you do I will assume you are a teenager as you became way to triggered of in actuality Fuck All. The two situations are equivalent. They are both MSM talking heads being misused by our overlords for propaganda purposes. What their message is or even if you disagree w it is irrelevant.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 30 2021 19:37 utc | 33

@ Posted by: Fnord13 | Sep 30 2021 19:03 utc | 32
“12 year old Syrian..” I believe there was also an even younger one.

They were apparently regularly sending dispatches from the front line in ‘besieged’ Aleppo or Idlib, these cities full of hospitals being destroyed every day in areas full of isis and ‘neutral’ WH International Rescue muppets who never chopped heads off children or poisoned them with gas and then pretending it was the Syrian Army. The Guardian newspaper was certainly full of it.

The Syria Campaign PR outfit operating straight out of western governments and msm stenographers who never went near Syria let alone interviewed said kids.

And as for the elfin princess who is obviously on some spectrum having being groomed into a figurehead launched at Davos - cry me a river.

Posted by: D.G. | Sep 30 2021 19:45 utc | 34

From an Ottawa Citizen article a few days ago by David Pugliese, "Military leaders saw pandemic as unique opportunity to test propaganda techniques on Canadians, Forces report says":

Last year, in April 2020, "Canadian military leaders" decided to "test out propaganda techniques on an unsuspecting public."

"The federal government never asked for the so-called information operations campaign, nor did cabinet authorize the initiative."

"Military commanders believed they didn’t need to get approval from higher authorities to develop and proceed with their plan."

"relied on propaganda techniques similar to those employed during the Afghanistan war. The campaign called for “shaping” and “exploiting” information."

That last part seems to imply propaganda techniques were deployed against the Canadian public during the many years in which the Canadian military participated in the US-led military occupation and subjugation of Afghanistan (while poll after poll showed that the majority or plurality of the Canadian public were opposed.) The newspaper doesn't follow up on that point.

"A separate initiative [..] overseen by Canadian Forces intelligence officers, culled information from public social media accounts in Ontario. Data was also compiled on peaceful Black Lives Matter gatherings and BLM leaders."

This article came out three days ago, yet I have seen zero mention of it on Canadian TV news. You would think that either of those revelations would be big news and that opposition parties and the news media would be all over this - but no, this is not what they want Canadians to pay any attention to.

Also last year, in September 2020, "military information operations staff forged a letter from the Nova Scotia government" whose officials "were unaware the military was behind the deception".

"Last year, the branch launched a controversial plan that would have allowed military public affairs officers to use propaganda to change attitudes and behaviours of Canadians [..] using information warfare and influence tactics on Canadians. Included among those tactics was the use of friendly defence analysts and retired generals to push military PR messages."

Of course, in our recent $612 million federal election, none of this was discussed by our establishment politicians or media. (But some PR strategy and polling companies probably made lots of money.) It's not about an informed electorate making an informed decision, but rather an electorate deliberately kept in the dark and manipulated by the establishment's military "public affairs" propagandists, political party PR strategists, and media working together to "manage" the public's perception.

So much for "democracy" in Canada (and probably many other US-led countries ...) What we seem to have instead is rising Orwellianism and fascism.

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Sep 30 2021 19:50 utc | 35

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Sep 30 2021 19:50 utc | 35

Yes and the article I posted a couple of days ago about Canada's pivot from Venezuela to Nicaraugua. None of our politicians or the wannabes mention any of this stuff on their campaigns.

Posted by: arby | Sep 30 2021 20:03 utc | 36

#33 Tannenhouser

I think you probably know perfectly well that the "teenager" I was referring to is Greta Thunberg, whom you are accusing of being "MSM talking heads being misused by our overlords for propaganda purposes."

One obvious difference between Ms. Thunberg and the supposed Syrian girl blogger mentioned above is that Thunberg's identity is no secret, while by contrast it seems rather doubtful that the supposed "Syrian" blogger is really who "she" claims to be. I think it's very likely that the "Syrian blogger" was a propaganda creation of some Western agency. By contrast, Greta Thunberg is a major political activist who has a message which you personally despise, and whom you try to discredit by claiming, without evidence, that she is somehow as implausible and fake as the "Syrian blogger".

Posted by: Fnord13 | Sep 30 2021 20:14 utc | 37

Obama used it all the time. Biden does too.
That Twitter account is an American operation.
Prof | Sep 30 2021 16:23 utc | 9

It is the superficial charm always mentioned in reference to sociopaths and psychopaths.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 30 2021 20:17 utc | 38

I don't want to complain...
But...
You guys have ruined 'folks' for me.
I probably never say 'folks' again folks.
Every time I do I will flash back to here.
It's just inconceivable to use it now. I feel bitter. You really can't blame me for slipping in a gendered contentious noun can you? It's my passive aggressive liberal trying to bubble up using hidden bait.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 30 2021 20:33 utc | 39

"folks" has been around for a long time.

Remember Loony Toons: "Th-th-that's all folks!"

Posted by: out_there | Sep 30 2021 20:38 utc | 40

@34 D.G. | Sep 30 2021 19:45

You're correct, it was a 7 year old, I think they even gave her an Oscar for her performance.

Posted by: Sid Victor Cattoni | Sep 30 2021 20:46 utc | 41

#34 D.G.

The Syria Campaign PR outfit operating straight out of western governments and msm stenographers who never went near Syria let alone interviewed said kids.

I fully agree with you that the Western propaganda campaign against Syria was built on lies, and that the claims about Syrian child bloggers were almost certainly false. But it does not follow from that that Greta Thunberg is in any way equivalent to a fake Syrian blogger.

I think you assume that the fact that Thunberg got a lot of media attention for a few years proves she is a puppet.
I think that Thunberg got an initial burst of public attention because she had an interesting personal story and happened to be in the right time and place to become the focus of widespread public concern about global climate change. Once she became well known some influential people, such as the Davos crowd, did try, rather unsuccessfully, to use her for their own benefit. But that fact does not discredit her message.

Posted by: Fnord13 | Sep 30 2021 20:47 utc | 42

@Roger | Sep 30 2021 18:05 utc | 20

I will answer you in a different context. I post what I believe is appropriate. You mind your own business.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2021 20:50 utc | 43

Twitter is toxic. Don't go there.

Posted by: Hal Duell | Sep 30 2021 20:53 utc | 44

Hey fnord, any proof/evidence (seems to be ur thing) for your assertation that I despise Thornburg or her message? Fake news bud. Also seems to be ur thing. Again they both were or are being used by the overlords for propaganda purposes. Their message is irrelevant to that point. Any time MSM gushes about something in unison there's a good bet that at best its not
acurate/truthful. The peeps backing Thornburg are the same peeps that got us in this predicament. Same for the gurl in Syria.
Am I rite?


Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 30 2021 21:07 utc | 45

"The immorality related to the ongoing corruption is yet another factor driving the Multipolar movement that's seldom commented upon but's very real. The vast majority of humanity is beyond tired of having to deal with it and is collectively beginning to shout Ya Basta!!"
karlof1 @ 21 I am seeing some good ideas about solutions here which has to be the focus logically at least.
What's also needed, and I think I have a potential strategy, is wide spread adoption.
Then you have to address it becoming illegal. That's tricky. How do you get around this?
And what about misuse against the people?

There are many risks and even advanced research to be done. That's a very narrow talent pool if questions of ideology are a prerequisite.

I made a lot of progress in 5 years but not nearly enough. As expected my education is taking years.

By myself the code now requires years of work neither I nor the people have. It was always a fools errand. Too little too late, but we soldier on.

I will try to find you when architecture is in progress. I mainly look for domain experts that communicate their ideas concisely and frequently. Cheers.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 30 2021 21:25 utc | 46

Fnord13 | Sep 30 2021 20:47 utc | 42
Greta was also heavily promoted on The Intercept. Naomi Kline (Klein?), a Canadian writer, was involved along with quite a few staff.
Much was also made of the expense of bring her there to speak to the esteemed crowd. It was theatrical but I didn't feel the need to verbally beat up some teen activist.
It is a clever tactic and beyond her sophistication never mind her parents from appearances. We'll see.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Sep 30 2021 22:01 utc | 47

Biswapriya Purkayast @1

You are correct about the use of 'folks'

Here is an example of it being used correctly

"We droned some folks" - Barry O'Bomber.

Posted by: Arfur Mo | Sep 30 2021 22:09 utc | 48

On Wednesday, new tweets appeared on the account saying the user was a 20-year-old student of the law and political science faculty who had been “pretending to be the new chancellor” with “fake” words that he hoped would “awaken Afghans, and the world to put pressure on Taliban to open the schools and universities.”

I am sure they are awake after 40 years of bombing, blasting, and automatic rifle fire courtesy of the not so great powers of the world. Not one word about that opportunity to become cannon fodder for a bunch of old wealthy MFers

Posted by: circumspect | Sep 30 2021 22:27 utc | 49

Tannenhouser, you have magnificantly proved Roger right! Congrats.

Posted by: witters | Oct 1 2021 0:02 utc | 50

@Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2021 20:50 utc | 43

"You mind your own business"? This is a public forum, and anything anyone says is open to question, so deal with it. Its called an open debate among adults, what one person thinks is appropriate another may not. I agree with many of your posts, but that doesn't make me a fan, and I reserve the right to disagree when I consider fit.

The discussion was about actual Western/Israeli/Turkish intelligence cutouts / those directly manipulated by intelligence agencies in Syria, Afghanistan etc. to promulgate absolute misinformation and lies. The Thunberg girl is a completely different animal, speaking what is basically the scientific truth (divorced from any political economic realities) about climate change but being used by the powers that be for their own agenda. Very much the same as the "apolitical" Extinction Rebellion that plays straight into the elite discourse of technocratic management and fixes. They are two very different types and attempting to draw a parallel takes the focus on the question at hand; one is explicitly lying, the other is telling the truth but covering up the real fixes to the problem that would discomfort the elites.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 1 2021 0:34 utc | 51

@Fnord13 — Post #32 and #42

Excellent comments — couldn’t agree with you more. And it certainly didn’t seem like you were the one “triggered” by the discussion.

The Syrian child was a complete fake — at the age of 7, she was allegedly able to report on the Syrian conflict with the insight of Vasily Grossman covering the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union. (Mr. Cattoni links it in #41.)

And we really shouldn’t forget the lesbian Syrian blogger — ‘Gay Girl in Damascus’ — who turned out to be a middle-age American guy living in Scotland. That was very popular with the ‘woke’ regime change crowd until it flatlined.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/13/syrian-lesbian-blogger-tom-macmaster

Greta is 18 not 15. If you’re a climate catastrophe denialist then, yes, you’re going to find Greta a very annoying young lady. She’s certainly not insincere or faking her beliefs, even if you (that’s a generic you) don’t like what she has to say. As to Greta being a tool of the global elites, the global elites are doing absolutely nothing to address rising greenhouse gas emissions or climate catastrophes. It’s all blah-blah-blah — as she recently pointed out.

As to the very American use of folks in the fake Kabul University tweet, U.S. politicians such as Bush and Obama use it to make themselves sound like ‘average Joes’ rather than elitist sociopaths.

Obama’s “We tortured some folks,” was possibly the most grotesque usage of the noun imaginable.

Torture made mundane and folksy.

Posted by: Randy G | Oct 1 2021 6:33 utc | 52

@Roger | Oct 1 2021 0:34 utc | 51

Out of some respect for your initial opinion that my post was not appropriate (something I strongly disagree with), I told you @43 I would answer in a different context. But you have apparently changed your mind and keep pushing the issue, so here we are.

This is a public forum, and anything anyone says is open to question, so deal with it.

Indeed.

As noted, I wasn't going to debate this with you here, but since you insist let me make it absolutely clear what my point was. The point was about abusing young children in a very sinister manner for political gain.

The parallels are very clear, the syrian girl was also very high profile and not some anonymous person. Anyone who followed the issue know that her name is Bana Alabed, she was seriously abused by the "white helmets", intelligence services and international media, e.g. by CBS News Bana Alabed, girl who tweeted Aleppo nightmare, safe as evacuations resume. I am sure we can agree that a 12 year old Syrian girl tweeting and blogging in English had received, shall we say "assistance".

In the case of Greta Thunberg, you have a 15 year old autistic Swedish girl being pushed forward to promote a political agenda hiding behind 'science'. This is a very sinister and cynical game as it is clearly desiged to prevent any form or rational debate about the purported scientific claims. Regardless of what you may think of the 'science', that is not consistent with the scientific method, and it is criminal abuse of vulnerable children. I understand that you have a different opinion of 'the science', but your insistence that the matter is beyond debate is not something that reflects solid confidence on your part. The fact of the matter is that the question is highly politicized and not at all "apolitical".

My proposal is that you let this go, let us agree with each other where possible and when agreement is not possible come up with factual counterarguments or simply say nothing. Trying to shut down debate is however not among the valid options available to us, and it tends to backfire when attempted.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 1 2021 6:46 utc | 53

@Randy G | Oct 1 2021 6:33 utc | 52

Greta is 18 not 15.

She was 15 when she was pushed forward in 2018.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 1 2021 6:47 utc | 54

@Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 1 2021 6:46 utc | 53

With the Syrian girl it is obvious that she was highly manipulated, especially supposedly being able to blog in English. So obviously an asset of some country's security services.

Our disagreement on the Thunberg girl is very simple - you don't accept mainstream climate science and I do (based on the very thorough rational debate in the scientific community for over four decades). Given the latter, then my viewpoints that she is not lying - rather her telling of the truth is being manipulated for the benefits of elites. You believe that she is being used to promulgate untruths in the service of the elites. We will agree to disagree, as it is obvious there is no changing of either of our minds on this.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 1 2021 7:20 utc | 55

The tweet might have been fake but it`s content accurately depicts the current reality in Afghanistan. Women are not allowed at universities and other institutes of higher education.

Posted by: m | Oct 1 2021 7:20 utc | 56

@Posted by: m | Oct 1 2021 7:20 utc | 56

"The tweet might have been fake but it`s content accurately depicts the current reality in Afghanistan. Women are not allowed at universities and other institutes of higher education."

Stop making shit up, even CNN calls this out as not true, "So far, women have been allowed to continue their university education, but the Taliban have mandated the segregation of genders in classrooms and said female students, lecturers and employees must wear hijabs in accordance with the group's interpretation of Sharia law."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/28/asia/afghanistan-women-kabul-university-taliban-intl/index.html

Posted by: Roger | Oct 1 2021 7:25 utc | 57

@Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 1 2021 6:46 utc | 53

I do actually hate the usage of the Thunberg girl, the classic highly emotional and simplistic call to action to legitimize a massive power grab by the elites. Part of the Cory Morningstar series on all of the PR, WEF etc. people using her as a prop for the manufacturing of consent for the financialization of nature:

https://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/09/18/the-manufacturing-of-greta-thunberg-for-consent-the-behavioural-change-project-to-change-everything-volume-ii-act-v/

Posted by: Roger | Oct 1 2021 7:42 utc | 58

@57 Roger
Why do you lie?

CNN: "So far, women have been allowed to continue their university education, but the Taliban have mandated the segregation of genders in classrooms and said female students, lecturers and employees must wear hijabs in accordance with the group's interpretation of Sharia law.
While some private universities have started segregating classrooms, public universities have not yet reopened with the new policy in place, according to Afghanistan's Tolo news and students CNN spoke to."

Posted by: m | Oct 1 2021 8:09 utc | 59

Greta Thunberg simply is an elite. Traveled to address the U.N. on the good ship Edmond de Rothschild. What more do you want? Take a quick look at who her parents are. The way she has been used is abusive.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Oct 1 2021 11:08 utc | 60

"She’s certainly not insincere or faking her beliefs, even if you (that’s a generic you) don’t like what she has to say."

Posted by: Randy G | Oct 1 2021 6:33 utc | 52


Thunberg, the midget fetal-alcohol-syndrome minx, is provably a first class liar....

Thunberg lied about taking first class
By Joe Tacopino

December 15, 2019 | 9:10pm

A German railway company has taken back an apology they made to Greta Thunberg after they realized the climate activist wasn’t schlepping it on the train’s floor but instead was treated “friendly” in first class.

The rail company was responding to an image Thunberg tweeted of herself sitting amid bags and suitcases on the floor of what she called “overcrowded trains through Germany.”

The company, Deutsche Bahn, initially released a statement that said they “continue working hard on getting more trains, connections and seats.”

They also thanked Thunberg for supporting the company’s battle against climate change and pointed out that the train she used had been running 100 percent on eco-friendly electricity.

But upon reflection, Deutsche Bahn said Thunberg’s “overcrowded” claims were just hot air.

The rail company claimed the teenager had a seat in first class between Kassel and Hamburg and that other members of her team were already sitting in first class from Frankfurt onwards.

“It would have been even nicer if you had also reported how friendly and competently our team served you at your seat in first class,” the company added.

Thunberg then claimed that jam-packed trains were actually great and having to sit on the floor wasn’t an issue.

“…this is no problem of course and I never said it was,” she tweeted. “Overcrowded trains is a great sign because it means the demand for train travel is high!

her complete refusal to acknowledge her "error" after being exposed by Deutsche Bahn, proves that it was no mere "error" but a deliberate lie.

And anyone that would lie about such an inconsequential matter is certainly capable of lying about weightier issues.

Posted by: GretaLied | Oct 1 2021 12:30 utc | 61

"I think you assume that the fact that Thunberg got a lot of media attention for a few years proves she is a puppet.

I think that Thunberg got an initial burst of public attention because she had an interesting personal story and happened to be in the right time and place to become the focus of widespread public concern about global climate change. Once she became well known some influential people, such as the Davos crowd, did try, rather unsuccessfully, to use her for their own benefit. But that fact does not discredit her message."

Posted by: Fnord13 | Sep 30 2021 20:47 utc | 42

Cory Morningstar's comprehensive "Wrong kind of Green" investigation delving into and clinically dissecting the "Little Greta" origin myth, clearly shows Little Greta is a fake "grass-roots" icon, her image 100% manufactured from the beginning by Big Green PR merchants of doom.

That is what 100% discredits her and her message. Her whole image is a lie.

https://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/09/18/the-manufacturing-of-greta-thunberg-for-consent-the-behavioural-change-project-to-change-everything-volume-ii-act-v/

When your whole image is 100% manufactured by professional PR agents you are simply discredited by default.

Posted by: GretaLied | Oct 1 2021 12:42 utc | 62

hey greta lied, you admit global warming is real and caused by humans right? cause why are we focusing on Greta Thunberg or Al Gore? they didn't come up with the science. are you worried about Watt's lying like a crack ho on saturday night, for decades?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 1 2021 12:57 utc | 63

Greta with a script

Greta without a script

Posted by: Down South | Oct 1 2021 13:49 utc | 64


The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg – for Consent series has been written in two volumes.

[Volume I: ACT I • ACT II • ACT III • ACT IV • ACT V • ACT VI] [Addenda: I] [Book form]

[Volume II: An Object Lesson In Spectacle • ACT I • ACT II • ACT III • ACT IV • ACT V • ACT VI] [ACTS VII & VIII forthcoming]

• A 100 Trillion Dollar Storytelling Campaign [A Short Story] [Oct 2 2019]

• The Global Climate Strikes: No, this was not co-optation. This was and is PR. A brief timeline [Oct 6 2019]

Volume I:

In ACT I, I disclosed that Greta Thunberg, the current child prodigy and face of the youth movement to combat climate change, served as special youth advisor and trustee to the foundation established by “We Don’t Have Time”, a burgeoning mainstream tech start-up. I then explored the ambitions behind the tech company We Don’t Have Time.

In ACT II, I illustrate how today’s youth are the sacrificial lambs for the ruling elite. Also in this act I introduce the board members of and advisors to We Don’t Have Time. I explore the leadership in the nascent We Don’t Have Time and the partnerships between the well-established corporate environmental entities: Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project, 350.org, Avaaz, Global Utmaning (Global Challenge), the World Bank, and the World Economic Forum (WEF).

In ACT III, I deconstruct how Al Gore and the planet’s most powerful capitalists are behind today’s manufactured youth movements and why. I explore the We Don’t Have Time/Thunberg connections to Our Revolution, the Sanders Institute, This Is Zero Hour, the Sunrise Movement and the Green New Deal. I also touch upon Thunberg’s famous family. In particular, Thunberg’s celebrity mother, Malena Ernman (WWF Environmental Hero of the Year 2017) and her August 2018 book launch. I then explore the generous media attention afforded to Thunberg in both May and April of 2018 by SvD, one of Sweden’s largest newspapers.

In ACT IV, I examine the current campaign, now unfolding, in “leading the public into emergency mode”. More importantly, I summarize who and what this mode is to serve.

In ACT V, I take a closer look at the Green New Deal. I explore Data for Progress and the targeting of female youth as a key “femographic”. I connect the primary architect and authors of the “Green New Deal” data to the World Resources Institute. From there, I walk you through the interlocking Business & Sustainable Development Commission, the Global Commission on the Economy and Climate and the New Climate Economy – a project of the World Resources Institute. I disclose the common thread between these groups and the assignment of money to nature, represented by the Natural Capital Coalition and the non-profit industrial complex as an entity. Finally, I reveal how this has culminated in the implementation of payments for ecosystem services (the financialization and privatization of nature, global in scale) which is “expected to be adopted during the fifteenth meeting in Beijing in 2020.”

In the final act, ACT VI [Crescendo], I wrap up the series by divulging that the very foundations which have financed the climate “movement” over the past decade are the same foundations now partnered with the Climate Finance Partnership looking to unlock 100 trillion dollars from pension funds. I reveal the identities of individuals and groups at the helm of this interlocking matrix, controlling both the medium and the message. I take a step back in time to briefly demonstrate the ten years of strategic social engineering that have brought us to this very precipice. I look at the relationship between WWF, Stockholm Institute and World Resources Institute as key instruments in the creation of the financialization of nature. I also take a look at the first public campaigns for the financialization of nature (“natural capital”) that are slowly being brought into the public realm by WWF. I reflect upon how mainstream NGOs are attempting to safeguard their influence and further manipulate the populace by going underground through Extinction Rebellion groups being organized in the US and across the world.

With the smoke now cleared, the weak and essentially non-existent demands reminiscent of the 2009 TckTckTck “demands” can now be fully understood.

Some of these topics, in addition to others, will be released and discussed in further detail as addenda built on the large volume of research. This includes stepping through the looking glass, with an exploration of what the real “Green New Deal” under the Fourth Industrial Revolution will look like. Also forthcoming is a look at the power of celebrity – and how it has become a key tool for both capital and conformity.

Posted by: GretaLied | Oct 1 2021 13:58 utc | 65

@50 Witters. The thread is hardly compromised, that being said perhaps for your 4th post here you can explain how you are somehow exempt from your false claim? I agree w Norwegian @53 100%. Had Roger not attacked a poster personally I wouldn't have even responded. Your kudos should actually go to Roger, but thanks all the same.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 1 2021 14:14 utc | 66

Fnord13 @42: "I think that Thunberg got ... public attention because she had an interesting personal story..."

Nonsense. Total rubbish.

Image-making and promotion to the public is big business. The public's attention is a very valuable commodity the sale of which capitalist mass media lives by. Nobody gets free publicity from capitalist mass media just because they might be "interesting". The only way you get on the screen without paying for it is to kill someone or be killed by someone. Everything else you see on the screen is a product being sold. To my knowledge Thunberg is still alive and has not killed anyone, so that leaves her as a product for sale.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 1 2021 20:42 utc | 67

@Tannenhouser | Oct 1 2021 14:14 utc | 66

Thank you.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 2 2021 7:49 utc | 68

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