Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 23, 2021

To Instigate Against Taliban CNN Claims Contradiction Where None Is Evident

The 'western' media are pushing for a continued war on Afghanistan or, if that is not possible, for putting devastating sanctions onto its people.

To diminish Afghanistan potential is part of the continuing hostility. The evacuation of Afghanistan's 'western' affiliated professional elite should be seen in that light.

There is no evidence that more than a handful of the people now being lifted out of Kabul are under threat. To justify their evacuation requires to publish horror stories about the Taliban.

CNN comes up with this one:

Taliban issue death sentence for brother of Afghan translator who helped US troops, according to letters obtained by CNN

The Taliban have sentenced the brother of an Afghan translator to death, according to letters obtained by CNN, accusing him of helping the US and providing security to his brother, who served as an interpreter to American troops.
...
The letters are just one example of how the Taliban are directly threatening Afghans who worked with the US or are family members of those who have, leaving them scrambling to flee the country in the wake of the Taliban takeover.
...
"You have been accused of helping the Americans," the Taliban wrote in the first of three letters to the Afghan man, adding, "You are also accused of providing security to your brother, who has been an interpreter."

The first letter from the Taliban, which is hand written, orders the man to appear for a hearing.

The second handwritten letter is a notice of his failure to appear for the hearing.

In the third letter, which is typed, the Taliban notify the man that because he rejected previous warnings to stop "your servitude to the invading crusaders" and ignored a subpoena to appear for a hearing, he was "guilty in absentia" and will be sentenced to death. The Taliban delivered the letters within the last three months to the interpreter's brother, according to the former service member who worked with the interpreter.
...
"These court decisions are final and you will not have the right to object," the third letter reads. "You chose this path for yourself and your death is eminent [sic], God willing."

The letters contradict assurances Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid made at a press conference last week, as the group tries to project a more moderate image to the world.

"Nobody will be harmed in Afghanistan," Mujahid said. "Of course, there is a huge difference between us now and 20 years ago."

How please do letters written "within the last three month" contradict a public amnesty guarantee "made at a press conference last week"?

Have the letters arrive after the amnesty was announced? Has the man be arrested or killed? CNN does not claim that. Where then is the contradiction?

Three month ago the Taliban were still fighting the biggest military alliance of the world led by a superpower. In course of that fight they would of course go after those who collaborated with their enemies. But that war is now over. The Taliban won. They have no longer any reason to go after people they could rather use in their country. They explicitly said so:

I would like to assure all the compatriots, whether they were translators, whether they were with military activities or whether they were civilians, all of them have been important. Nobody is going to be treated with revenge. Both youth who have talents, who have grown up here, who are from this country, we don’t want them to leave. These are our assets, we would like them to stay here, to serve.

In a current interview another Taliban spokesperson repeats that guarantee and points out that those who are now seeking to emigrate from Afghanistan are doing so for purely economic reasons.

We should take the Taliban by their words. That puts them under pressure to stick to them. To accuse them of breaking their own promises without providing evidence for that makes it only more likely that they, at some point, will start doing so.

Posted by b on August 23, 2021 at 14:11 UTC | Permalink

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Well it didn't take long for the US (Biden) to change it minds on airlifting ordinary Afghans out of the country, that is now reserved to US personnel, Nato personnel and those who possess a Green Card.

I can see the anger and resentment growing towards the US by the day from the Afghan people.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 23 2021 14:36 utc | 1

Let's be very clear: the Taliban could drop the hijab requirement, open a girl's school in every street, hire women in every government position, give medals to all Quisling translators, and the Amerikastani Empire would still push for war and/or sanctions against it. Why? So as to make an example of Afghanistan to other colonies that might be inspired to shake off the shackles of Amerikastani imperialist occupation. That's why.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 14:36 utc | 2


In Islamic Emirates, in BEST CASE SCENARIO, there will be peace.
However, soccer players wont be able to play soccer, musicians wont be able to perform, educated women will be at the mercy of uneducated vice police, minorities are on their way to becoming 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class citizens as per norms of Tribalism that dictates Taliban action, all Afghans will be hit with immense food shortages, inflation, and financial sanction from the US etc etc etc
Yes, they wont be killed or mutilated but thats what most non Pashtuns would get.

That is the best case scenario.

it is not only economic reasons...there is much more to it.

Posted by: Afgun | Aug 23 2021 14:36 utc | 3

Posted by: Afgun | Aug 23 2021 14:36 utc | 3

Scaremongering. That's precisely what b is arguing against.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 14:39 utc | 4

" We should take the NATO by their words. That puts them under pressure to stick to them. To accuse them of breaking their own promises without providing evidence for that makes it only more likely that they, at some point, will start doing so."

What even is this drivel Bernhard? That one side is devils doesn't make the other side newborn saints, and any old crook can claim "I only broke my promise because ... you believed that I would break it" without anyone eating it up for an instant.

Posted by: Seriously | Aug 23 2021 14:45 utc | 5

the Taliban could drop the hijab requirement,

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 14:36 utc | 2

Hijab (headscarf) is what nearly all the women in the photos of the airport are wearing. Not the full covering burqa (Arabic niqab), which used to be the requirement of the Taliban, and was worn in my time in Afghanistan in the 60's. Hijab is no great oppressive imposition; it is the current practice in Iran. On our trip to Iran in 2019, my French friend only objected because she doesn't like any imposition (perfectly correct in theory). The Taliban haven't been beating up women in the queues for not wearing the burqa, or not covering their faces.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 14:49 utc | 6

There are several, interconnected layers of analysis worth exploring here.

First, many twitter accounts show that most of Afghanistan and Kabul have been peaceful for the first time in decades. Even some Western journalists, such as M Aikens, have noted this on Twitter.

But the imperialist media as a whole is indeed hyping up the "crisis" for several reasons.

-- it knows that this debacle is a historic turning point and that the Empire is nearing collapse

-- the discourse managers, ideologues and mandarins of the US empire, including its idiot IR scholars, are trying to salvage their reputations, because they all look like know-nothing fools.

-- the media also needs to deflect blame for the historic failure of the western bourgeoisie since 1990 -- this is a world-historical crisis for their rule over the planet. It affects the ruling class of the entire NATO bloc.

-- there are some factions in the ruling class that want to ruin Afghanistan going forward, so that alternative models of development cannot take place, under conditions of multipolarity and sovereignty.

-- they also want to avoid us drawing the same conclusion about them that Afghans have drawn about their own US-backed rulers. They don't want us coming for their heads, because at the end of the day, empire abroad and capitalism at home are the same shitty system for everyone but the ruling class.

The second key point pertains to the so-called aid and development project since 2001. Ahmed Rashid called it the "aid juggernaut." It created a dependent layer of what dependency theorists once called "compradors," essentially paid servants and local functionaries of neocolonialism. This dynamic was enormous in Kabul, as billions of dollars poured into the city for air conditioned offices, private security services, elevated NGO salaries, translators, consultant wages, taxi drivers, and so on. This created an unsustainable property bubble and inflation for all sorts of goods in Kabul. This has been well documented in the critical development studies literature, and I can provide more sources if necessary. Even mainstream NGOs like Oxfam noted this form of maldevelopment.

Now, with the Taliban victory, the comprador class will lose its gravy train and is freaking out and rushing for the airport. These are the so-called refugees, which the collective West is asking us to cry over.

Why?

Because everything about this debacle signals the death of the US empire and the end point of its global social structure of dominance. If the US can't overthrow governments, prop up ruling classes, impose discipline through force, create comprador groups for color revolutions, then it doesn't have much of a future and its ruling class will lose its power and privileges. At the end of the day, this is the foundation of all this hysteria.


Posted by: Prof | Aug 23 2021 14:52 utc | 7

Two interesting developments:

1) Tajikistan is allowing the supply of arms and food to the Northern Alliance
2) The Taliban commander being sent to snuff out the rebellion is an ethnic Tajik.

Posted by: Down South | Aug 23 2021 14:52 utc | 8

There was one photo I saw on either Sputnik or RT that was really telling: a photo of well dressed Afghan yuppies pulling their small children up onto the wall surrounding the airport while trying to get in. Some of them had smiles on their faces - certainly not a sign of desperate translators trying to escape death - and why bring small children with them on such a dangerous "escape attempt"? The article stated that many people surged to the airport on rumours that they could go to foreign countries without a visa - i.e. as economic migrants.

Sorry, I couldn't find the page just now on a quick search.

Posted by: BM | Aug 23 2021 14:54 utc | 9

@Seriously | Aug 23 2021 14:45 utc | 5

Why are you using false citation?

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 23 2021 14:55 utc | 10


As per Reza Khoramian who is a YouTuber from Kabul and who lost 2 fingers for voting for Ashraf Ghani (one finger cuz it was inked to show he voted and another finger cuz some of the ink from the first finger dripped on to it and with a kitchen knife) banks are closed. people are left without their savings. Women are sent back home from University and workplace pending creation of the Emirates and legislations for women.

Even with Tailban's best intention borne of their victory and assistance from Eurasian bloc on how to form an inclusive govt, it will be years till they construct the new Emirates brick by brick and legislation by legislation.

Boys and Girls cant be in the same class or school? How long will it take to build new schools?

Posted by: Afgun | Aug 23 2021 14:57 utc | 11

As a Brit, my favourite comparison is between the Taliban and the Brexiters.
Brexiters and Taliban are much the same sort of people. Both populist movements representing people claiming to be ‘left behind’, and wanting their place in the sun of an imagined past, mainly conservatives from the countryside and provincial towns, telling the metropolitan elite off for having lost touch. That’s what you’re seeing in Kabul at the moment, and indeed in Westminster where most of the Brexiter members of parliament represent rural conservative areas. The only difference is the old-fashioned religion which has not yet got such a big hold on the Brexiters, though both Johnson and Rees-Mogg are on their knees before the crucifix, as Blair before them.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 15:03 utc | 12

@Laguerre No 6:

I am well aware of what hijab is. What I'm saying is that the Taliban could do literally anything short of surrendering to the American Empire and it still would be targeted with sanctions, calumnied, and propagandised against. Because the American Empire is absolutely terrified of other colonies throwing off its yoke, inspired by the events in Afghanistan. The new Taliban-controlled Afghanistan needs to be made an example of to ward off such tendencies.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 15:03 utc | 13

@Prof | Aug 23 2021 14:52 utc | 7

If the US can't overthrow governments, prop up ruling classes, impose discipline through force, create comprador groups for color revolutions, then it doesn't have much of a future and its ruling class will lose its power and privileges. At the end of the day, this is the foundation of all this hysteria.

Well said, I think this is the core of the present chaos, a common denominator for what is happening in Afghanistan, "climate change" and "covid".

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 23 2021 15:06 utc | 14

Posted by: Afgun | Aug 23 2021 14:57 utc | 11

Propaganda scaremongering should be censored by b. I guess it's just a paid job of work for Afgun.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 15:06 utc | 15

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 15:03 utc | 13

I agreed with what you're saying. It just needed more definition, as the situation is not like what many suppose.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 15:09 utc | 16

@Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 15:03 utc | 12

Brexiters and Taliban are much the same sort of people.

I thought you were a serious commenter, but apparently I was wrong. Is it something in the water?

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 23 2021 15:11 utc | 17

@ Biswapriya #2: I so am stealing your comment.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Aug 23 2021 15:15 utc | 18

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 23 2021 15:11 utc | 17

You just haven't thought it out. The Taliban may end up being more moderate than the Brexiters.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 15:16 utc | 19

banks are closed. people are left without their savings.
Wouldn't surprise me at all. What Ghani and his fellow kleptocrats didn't steal is being confiscated by Western banks/governments.

Posted by: corvo | Aug 23 2021 15:18 utc | 20

@Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 14:36 utc | 2

As Chomsky has said, it's the "good example" of a country successfully developing outside the clutches of FUKUS that is the most threatening - hence the embargo on Cuba for six decades, the overthrow of the democratic Guatemalan government in 1954 etc. etc. The worst possible outcome is a successful Afghanistan with women wearing headscarfs as they are awarded their PhD's and child mortality greatly reduced.

It will be a small price for Iran, China and Russia to make this happen but a huge propaganda victory, as well as creating a peaceful and prosperous Central Asia in general. China has to make sure that Pakistan never opens its borders to FUKUS agitators (FUKUS already lost the Stans). They should also provide Imran Khan with enhanced personal security.

Posted by: Roger | Aug 23 2021 15:30 utc | 21

Afgun | Aug 23 2021 14:57 utc | 11

Hopefully you will respond to my question.

You seem to see doom and gloom for Afghanistan because the US has decided to end its occupation of said country. If there will be all those bad things you write about, would you not agree that these issues need to be resolved by the Afghan people rather than an imposed solution from a foreign invader?

Are you Afghani? Why would you want to be occupied? I find that thought to be most unpleasant.

Posted by: dan of steele | Aug 23 2021 15:35 utc | 22

Almost poetic...where the US/NATO are, there is chaos and dysfunction. Now that the US/NATO have largely concentrated themselves at the Kabul airport, that happens to be the only place in Afghanistan with significant chaos and dysfunction.

One has to think that not all of the dysfunction is accidental. Just as when Trump attempted to disengage the US from its little wars he was fought to a standstill by factions within the US, so Biden is finding himself subject to very unaccustomed criticism and calls from many factions to reverse course. I suspect some think the longer and more ridiculous the situation at the airport becomes, the more chance for a lingering or expanded presence (I'm not saying this is possible, at this point, but I suspect some feel that way).

So you have, as Alexander Mercouris reported recently, a large Dutch contingent of about 1,000 being turned away because even though all members of that contingent had been cleared into the Netherlands, and at least one Dutch plane was waiting for them on the tarmac, the contingent contained Afghans among its members, and apparently the US guards had been instructed to allow no Afghans into the airport complex under any circumstances...so the Dutch plane departed empty. And further postings on an 82nd Airborne veteran's website has been extremely critical of General Milley and the brass in charge of the situation at the airport, noting that the troops are completely exposed, there seems to be no organization whatsoever, and apparently the US commander there at least attempted to order the British contingent to quit sending its troops outside the complex to assist its nationals (and Americans) to make it to the airport complex because it was embarrassing the US, since its troops are forbidden from leaving the grounds to assist anyone. So internal dissent among US/NATO is growing.

Posted by: J Swift | Aug 23 2021 15:37 utc | 23

@Posted by: Afgun | Aug 23 2021 14:36 utc | 3

"In Islamic Emirates, in BEST CASE SCENARIO, there will be peace. However, soccer players wont be able to play soccer, musicians wont be able to perform, educated women will be at the mercy of uneducated vice police, minorities are on their way to becoming 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class citizens as per norms of Tribalism that dictates Taliban action, all Afghans will be hit with immense food shortages, inflation, and financial sanction from the US etc etc etc. Yes, they wont be killed or mutilated but thats what most non Pashtuns would get. That is the best case scenario. it is not only economic reasons...there is much more to it."

Eurocentric Orientalist Islamophobia at its best, replete with SJW Imperialism as well! Are you the classic SJW Imperialist (MeToo unless its Joe Biden involved, women's rights unless its about Saudi Arabia, human rights unless it involves the Palestinians or protestors in France, Bolivia etc. being brutalized by the authorities, blah blah blah), a rich Afghani pissed at the imperial gravy train being removed (God forbid the poor people may have some authority over bourgeois women!), a so-called "progressive", or just a paid troll? I would love to know where you get this veritable rainbow of bullshit to string together in one paragraph.

Posted by: Roger | Aug 23 2021 15:40 utc | 24

Well, this is certainly illustrative of what we know is the continuing policy of Empire to double-down on every failure.

I can't really get behind supporting another dark age patriarchal religious cult as progressive. At this point in our history and evolution, humanity would be much better served without the mythic superstitions of the 'great religions.'

Posted by: gottlieb | Aug 23 2021 15:41 utc | 25

Prof @ 7
Yes the US learned well from the British empire who used the same "aid juggernaut" to rule over the people in it's colonies. Now it will be China's turn with their belt and road initiative in Afghanistan. But as you also mentioned I'm sure the US foreign policy establishment will do everything in their power to sabotage that initiative. Because it isn't about developing Afghanistan for it's people it's about developing it for ourselves, and no other power.

Posted by: 10 to 1 | Aug 23 2021 15:49 utc | 26

Anglo moral decadence and cowardice is absolute, they want more war, more bombs, but... fearing a Tehran 1979 instead of the Saigon 75 on steroids they got they just lament the fact that thousands could be hostages in a moment.

Even the devil of death the despicable BHL was extracted from his catafalque to go and put a new coalition together, the risk of forever war ending is something this Avernus denizen would not tolerate. There is no way back, collapse is unstoppable, the worst of the worst are at the steering wheel.

Posted by: Paco | Aug 23 2021 15:55 utc | 27

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 15:06 utc | 15

Sorry I am not in the mood to speak stupid. Find someone around you.


Posted by: dan of steele | Aug 23 2021 15:35 utc | 22

My post was not meant to be pro American (in this American vs Taliban issue) but was merely pointing out the difficulties faced by ordinary Afghans and reasons behind camping out the Airport which b lightly described it as their desire to eat BigMacs. There is more t it.

On Americans
I am happy that the Americans left. All the problem that Afghanistan is facing is because of American policies starting from 1972. I am positive that it will be very good for Afghanistan in the long run. And I agree that the only viable solution for Afghanistan is ultimately an Afghani one.

On Taliban
I am utterly pleased for the way the Taliban have conducted themselves. I see no other group in Afghanistan more deserving to rule than the Taliban to rule the country. Taliban are a blessing in disguise for poor Afghans in light of the coming inflation and food shortages.

On Afghans
Population grew from some 12 Million in 2001 to around 40 Million now and the reason for this explosion is the return of refugees from Iran and Pakistan and the flow of immense amount of US dollar.
If Taliban could not manage 12 Million isolated Afghans then, how can they manage 40 Million Afghans that have access to social media and are connected to the world?

Americans won cuz now their tax dollars wont fund corrupt Afghan politicians
Taliban won as they or their families no long get dronned by Americans
Ordinary Afghans, the likes of those at the airport, are the ultimate losers cuz it is they that now have to deal for food in their bellies and a future for their children.

Posted by: Afgun | Aug 23 2021 15:57 utc | 28

Posted by: Roger | Aug 23 2021 15:40 utc | 24

You analyze Afghanistan through the politics of the West.

I could not agree more with what you said....but mixing it with Afghan situation is like mixing water with oil.

I know that you all go by 'the enemy of my enemy must be my friend' ...... I am speaking with no such thing in mind but the mere future of ordinary Afghans including my very vast extended family members.

There are many families for example where women were the bread earners- what is going to happen to those families?

Posted by: Afgun | Aug 23 2021 16:04 utc | 29

I can't really get behind supporting another dark age patriarchal religious cult as progressive.

Posted by: gottlieb | Aug 23 2021 15:41 utc | 25

Of course not. However today's problem is that retrogressive conservative regimes are everywhere at the moment. The US has just escaped from one (whatever one thinks of Biden). Britain is still under such a regime. The American puppet regime in Afghanistan was so corrupt and out of touch, that people looked to traditional 'values' to get rid of it. And the Taliban were particularly well organised - that's why they won so quickly.

To make another comparison. In Iran, back in the 70s under the Shah, they used to have an expression in farsi - gharbzadeh, which translates as 'west-struck', that people so ready to go western that they abandon their own culture. Revulsion at gharbzadegi (the noun) was what drove the Iranian revolution, and it's evidently at work here. Only in Afghanistan, the Sunni movement is also supported from outside, in Pakistan and Saudi.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 16:05 utc | 30

"Paradigm lost", Alistair Crooke weighs in of Afghanistan:

A ‘Strategic Apocalypse’ in Afghanistan: A Seismic Shift, Years in the Making

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 23 2021 16:06 utc | 31

There are signs that the current "evacuation" (of individuals who need none, as Bernhard pointed out) is possibly being deliberately carried out at a pace that would warrant an extention the withdrawal deadline. This would allow the Spooks to covertly support, and if circumstances require, evacuate the "resistance" by crackpots that include Saleh. Currently, access to Tajikistan, the only source for support, is blocked by Taliban. In the face of failure, it would be tough for Saleh and co. to get out. The only way to ensure some lifeline remains is by ensuring some CIA footprint remains.

Posted by: Tranquiloquist | Aug 23 2021 16:09 utc | 32

Americans won cuz now their tax dollars wont fund corrupt Afghan politicians
Taliban won as they or their families no long get dronned by Americans
Ordinary Afghans, the likes of those at the airport, are the ultimate losers cuz it is they that now have to deal for food in their bellies and a future for their children.
Posted by: Afgun | Aug 23 2021 15:57 utc | 28

At least that's better than your earlier posts. However you make the classic error of mistaking the people at the airport for "ordinary afghans". What you mean is the westernised middle and upper urban classes. They are a minority. The Iranians made the same mistake, the intellectuals thinking they are the majority. Why the 2009 Green Revolution didn't work. What's happening in Afghanistan is very similar to what happened in Iran, but retarded by the foreign occupation, which put the country in a sort of stasis.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 16:17 utc | 33

Taliban’s priorities to govern: reconciliation, devt, recognition

Long story short: Afghanistan under the Taliban will most likely be like a normal Sunni Emirate. Not more, not less. It is loss of time to try to discuss that.

I said it last week and will repeat it again: the Taliban are not a communist party. They're not revolutionaries (and never claimed they were). Just because the parallel with Saigon is luring doesn't mean they're the CPV. Since they're not a communist party, they don't need to make the lives of the people of Afghanistan better. Russia and China are only hoping for a stable and terrorism-less Afghanistan, nothing more, nothing less.

You are trying to find some kind of key to solve the secret of the universe in Taliban's victory over the USA, but that's not a scientific way of analyzing the situation. The Taliban have nothing in special. The American Empire is simply declining. Afghanistan will continue to be a "shithole" for the foreseeable future. Stabilization is the realistic expected outcome for Russia and China.

The USA lost the war. Biden didn't decide to end it as he officially claimed; he was kicked out of Afghanistan (proof of that is in the fact he wasn't even able to prepare the circus to re-signify 9/11). The Taliban won the war and will do whatever the fuck it wants with Afghanistan because that's the reality of the situation. There's no ideology or religious power in play here, just pure war. Do not try to seek some mythical meanings in this episode, because there's none.

Posted by: vk | Aug 23 2021 16:21 utc | 34

thanks b.... i also liked with @ Prof | Aug 23 2021 14:52 utc | 7 said, especially the last part..


Posted by: james | Aug 23 2021 16:23 utc | 35

My god, everyone should watch the Atlantic Council discussion on the State of Play in Afghanistan , they are interviewing Petraeus and he is flat out call for a 50-80 year occupation of Afghanistan, NOWHERE does he talk about victory or "winning", it's all about how they had a sustainable cost for a continuing commitment (or strategic patience as Patraeus says). What type of "General" doesn't care about victory, it's all about the slush fund that an endless occupation creates for the M.I.C. Given the panicked toned he and the council members are speaking in, they really didn't believe they would ever leave Afghanistan.

Posted by: Kadath | Aug 23 2021 16:25 utc | 36

RE : Posted by b on August 23, 2021 at 14:11 UTC | Permalink

“To accuse them of breaking their own promises without providing evidence for that makes it only more likely that they, at some point, will start doing so.”

Those “socialised” in halls of mirrors often only “see” themselves.

Consequently many so socialised project their own perceptions onto others, some using the corroboration of notions such as “human nature”, thereby limiting their possibilty of rigorous analysis.

In some regard at least the Taliban have improved their analytical and strategic abilities, whilst those “socialised” in halls of mirrors apparently have not, outcomes Iraq and Afghanistan being facilitated by those who deemed Mr. Petraeus to be an “intellectual” often surging, including Mr. Petraeus himself.

The Taliban and others have opportunities of various ways of reacting “ To accuse them of breaking their own promises without providing evidence” including doing nothing, since the source of such criticism is self-designated as “The United States of America” and not all assign the same significance to others that others seek to assign to themselves.

Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 23 2021 16:27 utc | 37

@Posted by: Afgun | Aug 23 2021 16:04 utc | 29

"I know that you all go by 'the enemy of my enemy must be my friend' ...... I am speaking with no such thing in mind but the mere future of ordinary Afghans including my very vast extended family members."

Nice try at attempting to completely mis-frame the people responding to your claims, and then claiming your own lack of such bias and claim to truth through family connections. This is a very complex way of using language, so I have to assume that you are highly educated. If you are so educated then you must be able to understand the history of Islam, the deep role of FUKUS in fostering Islamic fundamentalism to roll-back the rise of secular non-aligned Islamic nations in the post-WW2 period, and the ability of Islamic governments to progress (Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran for example).

You are judging the Taliban from the 1998 to 2001 period, when a vicious civil war fought against the disgusting northern warlords had taken place - the result of FUKUS funding and the driver of extremism (as all such conflicts tend to be). We have to give the Taliban the "benefit of the doubt", especially given their reliance on their neighbouring Russia (through the Stans), China and Iran. Also, Mr. Khan ha no interest in stirring the extreme Taliban elects that exist in Pakistan (but have been silenced by the Taliban leadership in Afghanistan). The Taliban have officially stated their new policies, and I will be the first to state my disappointment if they do not abide by them.

All of your points perfectly feed into the FUKUS propaganda and general modus operandi for dealing with recalcitrant nations, and the sanctions and dirty tricks will be used to try to make sure that Afghanistan is failing - followed by hypocritical shrieks of concern from FUKUS. Just like with Cuba and Venezuela (and Chile, Iran ...,). There is a possibility of real peace and development in Central Asia, driven by the nations of Central Asia, now that the FUKUS interlopers have left. It may fail, but it deserves our support until proven false.

Posted by: Roger | Aug 23 2021 16:28 utc | 38

Afghanistan’s choices: instability or stability/sovereignty.

Hopefully, Afghans will see the light and pursue the latter. The Financial Empire would prefer an unstable situation to destabilize China, Russia, Iran and neighbors. Let’s see what unfolds in the next few months.

“You have a situation in Afghanistan where every single person has a cell phone and that’s a lifeline for many people,” 60 out of 100 people have cell phones. A good article in the FT.

The Afghanistan economy in charts: what has changed in two decades?

Empire’s Afghanistan fiasco has boosted morale for any group wanting the Americans OUT of the region and undermined the confidence of those who perceive them as allies.

Posted by: Max | Aug 23 2021 16:46 utc | 39

Interesting read by Orlov on the US occupation of Afghanistan and why it was doomed to fail.
A Case Study in National Shame

Posted by: Down South | Aug 23 2021 16:48 utc | 40

That there is a whole demonizing campaign going on is obvious as soon as you switch on the TV to test which is the scapegoat of the day/week.

They have left the unvaccinated alone, for a moment, and the rising number of cases, to go full telling us the misadventures of those Afgahn who want to be Western and are still stranded in the Kabul airport, conveniently forgetting to inform the audience that that airport is strictly under US/NATO control so far...

In lack of images of Taliban´s savageries, they are recurring to tell us the hardships some Afghan apinters have found during the past decades ( forgetting alos to remember the audience that during the past decades Afghanistan has had a US puppet governemnt..), and this, morevoer in a context where atr least half of the European population have forbidden access to museums to admire paintings, and not only but also music performance, concerts and all kind of social and cultural life...

Also they conveniently forget tell the audiecne about the escape of former president with four cars full of cash ammounting almost two hundreds million dollars, but well, what to expect, as the old Spaniard saying goes, "amongst firefigters, they do not piss on each other´s waterpipes"...

The Afghans coming to the West are for a rude awakening, although well may be that these people, including those who collaborated in torture, could be treated quite better than the national average taxpayer, probably enjoying free of charge housing and basic services...I very doubt the US is going to pay for anything, at the pace we are dilapidating our hard earned resources on useless US made vaccines ammounting of billions of euros so neede for other social needs, and growing...
I very doubt what is happening here through these past two years would had happened under Taliban rule...


Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 16:50 utc | 41

Posted by: vk | Aug 23 2021 16:21 utc | 34

Long story short: Afghanistan under the Taliban will most likely be like a normal Sunni Emirate. Not more, not less.

Normal Sunni emirates have emir as a head of state. Who is the the emir of Afghanistan? Where is he?
They talk about a governing Islamic/tribal councils, that is more like jamahiriya-style republic.
No wonder Fukus hates it.

Posted by: hopehely | Aug 23 2021 16:54 utc | 42

What the US (neocons and neoliberal R2P interventionists) would like to happen is for Afghanistan to be worse off after they leave.

The last thing they want is for Afghanistan to become better off after they've left. As Prof @7 also pointed out, if that happened, they would lose a justification for their regime change interventions all over the world.

As b writes, "To diminish Afghanistan potential is part of the continuing hostility. The evacuation of Afghanistan's 'western' affiliated professional elite should be seen in that light."

Isn't this how the US (and rest of the Anglo-American Empire Five Eyes) and NATO countries harvest human resources from the rest of the world. They sanction/destroy a society, create a refugee crisis, and pick the best of the crop. Consider how many productive people the West has from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam, Korea, Russia, Ukraine, etc. At the same time, that further diminishes the countries that needed just those kinds of people.

The Taliban (and regional countries such as China, Pakistan, Central Asia 'stans, Russia) on the other hand, want and need Afghanistan to stabilize and develop peacefully along with the region as a whole. To that end, they want the educated professionals (teachers, academics, doctors, engineers, etc.) to stay to help the country.

Combine:

- leaving behind all that US/NATO/ANA weaponry,
- creating conditions for a chaotic civil war (ex. CIA asset former-VP Saleh in Panjshir),
- creating a atmosphere of fear and a refugee crisis situation,
- trying to get Central Asian Stans to take them in "temporarily"
- creating chaos in which AQ/IS/ETIM can flourish

Isn't this a recipe to destabilize Afghanistan and subsequently the region as a whole (and especially Xinjiang in China and the Central Asian Stans next to Russia.)

Fortunately, it seems that the Taliban and the regional countries have so far stymied that destabilization recipe, to the great dismay of the US.

As Putin said:

"Our Western partners are persistently raising the question of placing refugees in Central Asian countries before obtaining visas to the United States or other countries."

"Who are these refugees? How can we tell? There may be thousands, or even millions," Putin posed. "The border is a thousand kilometers - they will get on everything, a car, even a donkey, and flee across the steppe."

We don't want militants showing up here under cover of refugees."

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Aug 23 2021 17:04 utc | 43

I wonder where all those thousands of Afghan people are going to work when almost every job which is not high tech is currently being destroyed in the West...

Probably our elites would wish changing the population and that we start an exodus to Afghnaistan and the Afghans willing to serve them in whatever outrageous activity to come here on our place...

Do not discard they are planning this.

Another option is that all these thousands could be used in the future to terrorize the resistance against currenlty unleashing dictatorships here...Recall what at other times AQ/ISIS was instrumental for...

Putin, as old desert fox, is saying he does not want these "refugees" pouring through Russian borders...What he could know than we do not?
But taling into account the current posiiton of some our governments, who have burnt all their political capital through the appliance of dictatorial fascist measures which step onto the Constitution they pledged to respect, it could well be the case they need these "refugees" so that to remain in power against the will of the people once overthrown...

Has not Ghani needed during all his tenure surround every official facility with concrete blocks? And that even when counting with the protection of "the most powerful army in the world"...

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 17:08 utc | 44

@Posted by: hopehely | Aug 23 2021 16:54 utc | 42

They are going to announce their government in the next weeks, of course if another war which interrupt this is not started by US puppets, once orgnaized and their talks with other parties, including former enemies end in some jkind of agreement for a somehow inclusive government, and you will know who the Emir, or whomever in his place, will be...

Terpenie, the US is still evacuating...

It is my hunch that the US has no plans to abandon the airport, since it was planned it would had fallen under Turkish, and thus NATO, control.
Today the radio stated Biden was going to send some dozens of civilian flights to airlift the remaining people in the Kabul airport...

Beware all thsoe dozens of flights does not arrive to the tilt with weapons for the "nirthern alliance".

It is my impression since the beginning of Massoud´s statements, that the US palns to build a supurating abcess in the beautiful enclave of Panjshir in the of Idlib ...so as to try to rot and sabotage Taliban tenure...
In this sens, recall here that the Western protected Emirate of Idlib is also under Sharia Law, and then nobody strips their garments in horror, but the "emirs" there are sold to us as "modearte rebels"...when we honest taxpayers are being labelled "terrorists", "more dangerous than thieves and drug traffickers" in some papers...Why they would whitewash the drug traffickers now at our expense, one wonders...Sure that the fact that the international drug trafficking business is on tatters has nothing to do...

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 17:22 utc | 45

I am somewhat discouraged that the MoA is citing the words/statements of the Taliban terrorist organization (you should never forget who you are dealing with) as credible or to be taken seriously.
For example:


those who are now seeking to emigrate from Afghanistan are doing so for purely economic reasons.

It is highly doubtful that people were willing to tie themselves to the landing gear of an airplane, practically condemning themselves to a gruesome death, solely for "purely economic reasons". Who would believe this nonsense? These people were willing to risk falling from a height, willing to do anything to avoid meeting the Taliban - obviously there are reasons for this. Afghans know what fate awaits them. Therefore, for them to get off the plane and crash to death, or in any way give the Americans their babies is a better option than falling into the hands of the Taliban.

There was also news about the facts of executions, destruction of monuments, the release of criminals from prisons, etc. The Taliban are trying to pretend to be a 'peaceful new government', and I must say that their propaganda bodies are working competently (a separate question is who provides this - Pakistan, England, the United States, the monarchies of the Persian Gulf, someone else...?). But this propaganda can hardly hide the true essence.


To accuse them of breaking their own promises without providing evidence for that makes it only more likely that they, at some point, will start doing so.

A strange statement. According to this logic, it is highly likely that Russia will one day begin in reality to do everything that the "collective West" accuses it of. And China too, btw.

Posted by: alaff | Aug 23 2021 17:23 utc | 46

Vk @34:

No biggie, but I would like to point out that you're a bit off when you say that the Taliban aren't revolutionary.
What we just saw was a school book example of a peasant revolution. (the last ever?)
They don't have a socialist programme, but that doesn't change the nature of the political event that just took place.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 23 2021 17:25 utc | 47

There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the western propaganda machine about the US leaving military equipment in Afghanistan.
This reminds me of when the US invaded Iraq and they wailed about how the museums were being looted without the military protecting them.
But the US military managed to guard the Oil Ministry and also to destroy all records showing collaboration between Hussein and the US in former, more friendly times. Also, those museum treasures turned up in the houses of the wealthy in the US and Europe. We were told that the Iraqis fenced them, because western people seem to believe anything.
I note that the US military spent a lot of time erasing files and burning documents in Afghanistan also.
Priorities, people, priorities.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Aug 23 2021 17:26 utc | 48

The Western media is going through five stages of grief. Now they are in the anger stage. Biden is on the firing line.

Friday saw another "CNN contradicts itself" story.

Austin contradicts Biden, says Americans have been ‘beaten’ by the Taliban - Politico

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told lawmakers Friday that Americans trying to leave Afghanistan have been beaten by Taliban fighters, according to several people who participated in a briefing call with Austin and other top officials.

Austin’s remarks to House members appeared to directly contradict President Joe Biden’s assessment from minutes earlier, in which Biden said the U.S. was not aware of Americans having trouble getting through Taliban checkpoints and to the airport in Kabul — the only evacuation point in the country that is not controlled by the Taliban.

The story is fake news. The Taliban outside the airport are practicing crowd control to keep the gates free, so that Americans can move in and out. To do this they use whips and sticks. During the first days they were also seen shooting in the air.

Meanwhile, American crowd control inside the airport has failed and several people have been shot.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 23 2021 17:28 utc | 49

@Posted by: alaff | Aug 23 2021 17:23 utc | 46

To this date they have liberated political prisoners and fellow fighters, an bovious thing happening when someone wins a war.

For the rest, it has no sense that they liberate delincuents, when they are crushing crime since minute one of their fresh tenure, catching some long data criminals in these firts days.

What about the whitewashing of the White Helmets and the recent whitewahsing of the leader of HTS as "Emir of Idlib"? Anything to add in that regard? Lets´soend some equanimity, please...

FYI, when in the West some thief stole your car ( many times organized mafias..)you can forget about seeing it again, as police here never solved any of these crimes.

Just yesterday I posted announcement by police in Kabul on that they have dismantled a whole carjackers network, and that anybody missing its car can telephone the police to test if its vehicle is amongst the requisitioned

That is what I would call effectivity, and not that of the Western vaccines...

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 17:33 utc | 50

Asha K. @45:

If they don't plan to leave the airport they are suicidal. It's impossible to hold. It would be a battle, it would be a purr massacre.
Maybe they are planning to 'show who's boss' by unilaterally deciding on when to leave. Didn't work so great last time. Might end a lot worse this time. Let's hope not.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 23 2021 17:36 utc | 51

Clearly unfortunate things will occur in Kabul and elsewhere. The 'taliban' are probably no more disciplined than the US fórces,who are also probé to outrages. This is the end (hopefully) of a long and brutal series of wars. Things happen. The MSM Will continúe to pick fly shit out of pepper to disparage the talibán and try to justify their years of bloodthirsty stupidity. As b says, lets wait and see, So far as we can see, and as noted by EU sources, the Maine chavos seems to be in the small bit of real estate under US control. As usual

Posted by: c | Aug 23 2021 17:37 utc | 52

A couple of good articles. One, "Despair in the Empire of Graveyards
Or Gilbert and Sullivan Come to Afghanistan, Depending on Your Perspective" by Fred Reed

Siagon was was just a warm-up for Kabul

https://www.unz.com/freed/despair-in-the-empire-of-graveyards/

And "The Sheer Joy of Afghanistan" by Israel Shamir

The Woke armies lost!

"My congratulations, friends and readers! The Taliban’s victory is our victory, yours and mine. We, non-Muslim and non-Pashtun folk, in the US and Europe, may rejoice, for in Afghanistan, virile (not “toxic”) masculinity defeated gender-diversity, believers defeated those weak of faith, the morals of our fathers overcome the morals of our sons."

"These armed peasants reminded us that we still can change the world. It is not necessary to submit. All the rules of the game could be re-written; the whole game could be dumped. Normalcy, a traditional norm can be regained."

In times like this one is reminded of The Second Coming by Yeats. Will the centre hold?

The lies about Afghanistan have just started and will continue to be pumped out for many many years just like what happened after the 1979 revolution in Iran.

Posted by: Tom | Aug 23 2021 17:40 utc | 53

@alaff | Aug 23 2021 17:23 utc | 46

There was also news about the facts of executions, destruction of monuments, the release of criminals from prisons, etc. The Taliban are trying to pretend to be a 'peaceful new government'
Not very different from the US government then!

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 23 2021 17:41 utc | 54

Thank B, Here is a link to a good piece that is highly worth reading.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2021/08/23/strategic-apocalypse-afghanistan-seismic-shift-years-in-making/

Posted by: Liaison | Aug 23 2021 17:43 utc | 55

Clarificación:

*justify their own years . . .

Posted by: a | Aug 23 2021 17:48 utc | 56

@Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 23 2021 17:36 utc | 51

@Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 23 2021 17:28 utc | 49

But, I have read this morning in a break that some sniper broke fire on Taliban guarding the airport entrence, then that the Taliban started shotting at US troops resulting in one taliban KIA, and several IIA...

It is obvious since the beginning that there are at least some US rogue factions trying to sow chaos in the airport and that there is a carnage, for what it seems they od not have enough with the show of the refugees...

Who are experts in unleashing snipper attacks on unwarned unsupecting people ( as they could be Taliban under previous agreement...), including fals falg operations so that to sow chaos and mayhem? Recall Maidan...

Would these rogue factions need to vacate the airport of Taliban as the "dozens of civilian flights" arrive?

BTW, that I did not hear weel, as I was far from tha radio, but seemed to me they were stating these flights will land in another airport different from Kabul?
Whay do you know? W
hat that airport would be, Mazar-e-Sharif?

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 17:48 utc | 57

IMO, it will be a very bad idea for the Taliban to get two main national airports bogged down with the "refugees" issue...

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 17:52 utc | 58

More from Israel Shamir's article. When will CNN start comparing the Taliban to the deplorables?

"A Trumper watches with envy as these rebels actually take the president palace instead of being accused of doing it on January 6."

These rebels that have a strong conservative streak, libertarian views, mostly rural people that just want to be left alone, live in (B-52) flyover country and wish to pay little or no taxes. Sounds like a bunch of deplorables to me. There, that should make it a bit easier for the Dem's to bomb them back to the, oh wait, they already did that.

Posted by: Tom | Aug 23 2021 17:59 utc | 59

Asha K. @57

Sowing chaos is one thing, holding the airport something else. How may katyushas would you need to damage the runways enough to render it unusable? One. And then you would have several thousands of elite soldiers stranded, without supplie lines. Soon they would no longer be soldiers, they would be hostage. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just hoping Centcom isn't dumb enough to let that happen.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 23 2021 18:12 utc | 60

Yeah, and the clearest sign to show this: Ugandan media reported, that ALL Afghans refused the "evacuation to safety" when they found out that their flight would not go to Europe or US but to Africa and said they would rather stay. ;) ;)
"Refuguees from evil Taliban"? More like oppertunists seeming their chance to get back on the gravy train and get a EU or US passport.
Stupid for them, because 95% will be deported back anyway, at least from the EU. At least that is about the current percentage of "real" refugees compared to oppertunistic migrants who are deported.
Sorry for breaking some politically correct hearts here.

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr. | Aug 23 2021 18:18 utc | 61

For those asking ofr the announcement oif the new Emir, the Taliban have appinted already acting voernor of Afghan Central Bank, Haji Idrees, an expert in Sharia economics and formerly in charge of Taliban Ecnomic Divission...

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1429822245610954757

One thing is for sure, BlackRock will not come to loot the country by, first, ruining it ordering the government a months lasting lockdown, plus then oblying it, probably under menace, blackmail or plain bribe, to spend billions of euros in useless vaccines which at this point are already at their third shot needed to improve previously alleged "99% immunity", plus raising the price of the "vaccines" a 20% in a round in spite of their uselesness and the signed contracts for next months, plus taking over main national assests at pennies once the country´s main economic sectors ruined by these past mentioned measures...

I very much doubt this man will do it worse...

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 18:22 utc | 62

Just a week left before deadline. Something has to give. As it appears Westerners and maybe some Afghans with SIV are given priority and the others "on hold".

As the next days tick by, we are likely to see more problems with crowd control. Then the eventuality of post-August and "consequences" as Taliban spokesman mentioned.

About 20 deaths so far is not a huge number for such a large event, but increased panic could worsen the situation significantly. I for sure hope there are some channels of some kind between Taliban and USA.

Posted by: Harald | Aug 23 2021 18:22 utc | 63

Sorry for the typos, I am writting in a hurry...I hope you can guess the meaning..

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 18:26 utc | 64

@ DontBelieveEitherPr. | Aug 23 2021 18:18 utc | 61:

I'm reminded of the exodus of Soviet Jews to the USA circa 1980. The Jewish community in the city where I lived even organized a program to teach the immigrants how to be Jewish, because they had no idea -- many of them were entirely secularized and were just using an emigration opportunity that privileged Jews over other Soviet ethnicities.

Posted by: corvo | Aug 23 2021 18:34 utc | 65

Breaking News!

As BHL Twitted already about the heroic resitance being bulit in Pajshir and what is at stake here, is to be guessed, as @Natscejeff ventures, the resistance will be guided from Paris...

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1429798591648997388

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 18:34 utc | 66

Curious, to say the least, and illustrating on how the US treats its allies..

Some photos have surfaced of former Chief of Staff of Afghan Army,General Wali Mohammed Ahmadzai, lining for airlift at Kabul airport´s gates...amongst the crowd...One week after the thing started...

Resembles Pat Lang all the way... wondering whether he is really ole Pat already unleashing his GB operation there...under cammouflage...

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1429788133131014152

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1429815098743328774

If the Taliban would wish any kind of revenge, one guess they would had managed to catch him by this hour...
It is clear they are fulfilling the deal...

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 18:44 utc | 67

Curious image of TB Loya Jirga in action...such a crowd...resembles the Soviet Politburo...

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1429780821607600131

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 18:52 utc | 68

Interesting footage of the TB SOF "313 Badri" Unit, it seems that the Taliban have relaxed the norm on beards for them...

Have you noticed they all resemble each other, as if they were clons?
Reminds me of the Quds Force from the Iranian IRGC when they form with their sun glasses and their beards cut exactly the same size and style...

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 19:08 utc | 69

the Taliban could drop the hijab requirement,

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 14:36 utc | 2

Hijab (headscarf) is what nearly all the women in the photos of the airport are wearing. Not the full covering burqa (Arabic niqab), which used to be the requirement of the Taliban, and was worn in my time in Afghanistan in the 60's. Hijab is no great oppressive imposition; it is the current practice in Iran. On our trip to Iran in 2019, my French friend only objected because she doesn't like any imposition (perfectly correct in theory). The Taliban haven't been beating up women in the queues for not wearing the burqa, or not covering their faces.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 23 2021 14:49 utc | 6

I can remember when ALL wimmin wore a scarf over their hair, OK, biscotte you were going to church, family thing, etc... in some european countries (xtian trad) they still do !
What's the *-* problem?

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Aug 23 2021 19:28 utc | 70

An interview with the mayor of Kabul, "I got a call from the Taliban to stay on", stating clearly the policies of the neo-Taliban. For all those decrying the fallback to the Middle Ages that is upon Afghanistan .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAQhfhLeoxM

The reality for the women of Honduras, "the deadliest place for a woman in Latin America", this is the country where the US and Canada supported the coup against a mildly progressive president. Where are all the SJW warriors, shouldn't the FUKUS be "intervening" in Honduras?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaWIiAFvZy8

Posted by: Roger | Aug 23 2021 19:30 utc | 71

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 14:36 utc | 2:

.....and the Amerikastani Empire would still push for war and/or sanctions against it. Why?

Sure, more sanctions and war against them. Why not? Them still wearing that damned rags on their heads, ain't they?

Don't underestimate the empire on cooking up reasons to bomb targets to kingdom come. They got a whole industry for that: TV/Newsprints/Web/Churches/Schools. Even dinner tables at homes.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 23 2021 19:32 utc | 72

@Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Aug 23 2021 19:28 utc | 70

A headscarf is most definitely better than the "sex positive" dressing like a street walker style we see so prevalent in North America (not so much in the much sexier and more classy France). We have forgotten the benefit of basic modesty, both in men and women. Less sexualization and more focus on life's purpose and mission, and perhaps more STEM degrees than wokeness, would make for a much better society. Just like in Iran. The imperialist head is rotting from the inside.

Posted by: Roger | Aug 23 2021 19:36 utc | 73

@ Posted by: Tom | Aug 23 2021 17:40 utc | 53

Nonsense. This is one more to the denial archives of the USA.

The USA as a whole was defeated. The woke just glued the stickers on the American planes, jets and missiles.

Posted by: vk | Aug 23 2021 19:41 utc | 74

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 15:03 utc | 13:

Sorry. Saw your posting @13 only belatedly after I posted my sarcasm. You obviously well aware of Empire's resourcefulness in building up offensive narratives:-)

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 23 2021 19:41 utc | 75

Posted by: vk | Aug 23 2021 16:21 utc | 34:

Well said!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 23 2021 19:49 utc | 76

Having checked out the history of the vice president now self declairing as caretaker...and previous info..
https://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-amrullah-saleh-afghanistan-caretaker-vice-president-taliban-7460171/lite/


.that India was behind if not fully supporting the previous northern alliance....and Pakistan the Taliban. If this basically a trueism or too simplistic-please advise- is this still the case of these two countries carrying out extra territorial interventions .....and does the recent Doha negotiations.. declarations by various countries that Afghanistan will be working its way to true self government and recognition..that thete will be some kind of qualifications so to speak on that journey that will be overseen by eg Russia and China..has the India v Pakistan scenario been brought under control....quietened down...what is their agreement or status situation over this issue if any...especially as the northern alliance seems to clamouring for support and recognition?????.etc etc.

Posted by: Jo | Aug 23 2021 19:54 utc | 77

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Aug 23 2021 19:28 utc | 70:

I can remember when ALL wimmin wore a scarf over their hair

And in UK at hoopla events, all wimmin are still wearing hats (funny looking ones at that :-), or else they get sneering glances from those 'properly dressed'.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 23 2021 20:02 utc | 78

https://twitter.com/mattaikins/status/1428013158719971330?s=20

Matthieu Aikens says Kabul has been overwhelmingly calm except for the airport.

If you browse his Twitter, he notes a small protest in Kabul, Taliban forces policing major intersections, and a Taliban delegation attending Ashura -- a hopeful sign of reconciliation with other religious groups and maybe a nod to Iran.

In other words, there's no crisis except for the small segment of people who will lose their income working for the occupation.

I imagine people in the countryside are quite relieved that the war is over, and that the Taliban won over the warlords and the corrupt and sadistic police and US-backed militias.

Posted by: Prof | Aug 23 2021 20:16 utc | 79

A good Op Ed on Global Times:https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1232247.shtml

The US and other Western countries owe refugees in the Middle East an apology. What's more, they owe people in the region substantial support for their lives. The previous pattern in the Middle East was disrupted after a series of events, including the US war on terror in Afghanistan in 2001, the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, and the "Arab Spring," which led to the wars in Libya and Syria. A series of violent regime changes occurred, and the resource-rich Greater Middle East has become the largest source of refugees in the world.

The US and other Western political leaders have never really reflected on or repented for what they have done in the Greater Middle East. Every action they took has been propagandized as "morally" motivated under the banner of "humanitarianism." But the actual result was that a large number of civilians were killed in the war and countless people lost their homes and were displaced. Their practices run counter to their fancy rhetoric.

Yes, the West; not just the USofA.


Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 23 2021 20:20 utc | 80

Bemildred @31 and Liaison @55, thanks for the Alastair Crooke article, an interesting read.

As he writes, "Civil war remains a risk: We may expect that the CIA will try to stand-up an Afghan counter-insurgency to the new government – the path is not difficult to forecast: acts of violence and assassinations will (and are) being attributed to the “terrorist” Taliban. They will likely be false flag operations."

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2021/08/23/strategic-apocalypse-afghanistan-seismic-shift-years-in-making/

The US is not interested in peace and stability in Afghanistan, especially now that they no longer occupy it and the puppet regime they installed is no longer in place.

Let's hope the Afghan people can now find some peace, stability, and development after 42 years, despite the non-regional, extra-continental (US/UK/Australia/Canada/etc.) interference that will, unfortunately, probably continue.

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Aug 23 2021 20:22 utc | 81

Either you are with us or you are sometimes bombed and always sanctioned.

Posted by: Knutsen | Aug 23 2021 20:39 utc | 82

vk @34

Since they're not a communist party, they don't need to make the lives of the people of Afghanistan better

True, they're not, but they are the afghan resistance to the evil invaders of their country - so they really do want to improve the lives of their families, brothers, sisters, cousins, neighbours ...
You are scum if you think otherwise.
Hasta la vista, baby.

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Aug 23 2021 20:42 utc | 83

Posted by: vk | Aug 23 2021 19:41 utc | 74

You really need to take a valium. Everything isn't black and white. And ivermectin is a valid treatment for covid. ASSHAT.

Posted by: Tom | Aug 23 2021 20:51 utc | 84

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Aug 23 2021 20:22 utc | 81

Thanks, yes, it was interesting. Crooke has been a bit apocalyptic himself lately. But I think he is correct.

Ordinarily I would expect us to stall and make trouble, but right now I think "Biden" at least is focussed on getting those hostages out of there. After that, the situation seems volatile. Of course others will be pursuing their own agendas too. But I don't see that they have a way in, for now anyway. Expect things to keep happening.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 23 2021 20:54 utc | 85

It looks like the continuing to push for war against Afghanistan is also part of the push for economic and geopolitical hybrid war full spectrum dominance against China:

https://asiatimes.com/2021/08/taliban-inherit-untapped-1-trillion-trove-of-minerals/

I heartily recommend the book quoted in the Asia Times article, 'The Rare Metals War, the dark side of clean energy and digital technologies', by Guillaume Pitron, translated from French, first published 2020.

However Pitron was unaware of a number of Australian rare and critical mineral discoveries and deposits at the time of writing. Drill and ye shall find.

They have learnt nothing and forgotten nothing, again.

Posted by: Paul | Aug 23 2021 20:58 utc | 86

@Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 19:08 utc | 69

Wrong link to the "313 Badri" TB SOF Unit, sorry...Twitter has a recent feature that do not allow seeing the Twit you want to link ( nor reading Threads, btw, either...) appearing a patch asking you to register ( which I am not willing to do since they request your own phone number for that...why would I want to give it to them, due the sate of affairs in the West?)

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1429699404882120710

Btw, last word has, reported already by The Telegraph indeed, that Massoud is negotiating the terms of his surrendet at Panjshir....Mate, this guy seems a tajik clon of Justin Trudeau, why they cut´em all by the same pattern?

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1429901799633338373

Also, interview with former TB Ambassador to Pakistan, Abdul Salam Zaeef...

https://twitter.com/saadmohseni/status/1429896186920521752

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 23 2021 21:05 utc | 87

...I guess my training inures me to the bombastic rhetoric circulating, withdrawal from an untenable and indefensible position is the right thing to do, it's not cowardly, it's not "defeat", it's what mentally well people do when put in such a situation.

To watch the coastal/urban DC/NYC nexus of 3LA approved "elites" caterwauling over what is to most, even casual observers, an obvious choice is a sad commentary on that small pathetic group of pampered princesses and princes; to watch otherwise intelligent members of this board [and b to some extent] give voice to an elitist narrative "America is defeated" is...disappointing.

The United States is not "defeated" our borders are still intact, well, kinda.

Obama and his handmaiden, the 3LA/D-machine], who is/are barely mentioned in this tragedy and are the real villain[s] in this story. They're the morons that took AF-PAK troop levels from 17,000 to over 130,000 with about 80,000 "contractors" and some 100,000 NGO's roaming the mountainsides of Afghanistan in, to quote Obama, "the right war". I can forgive the low-information voters but, I struggle forgiving the morons who supported Obama's ill-advised 19th century imperialism, those D's are as guilty as those morons who supported Bush II. Both Bush & Obama supporters are the ones who have been "defeated" by the cold reality of our times...not normal Americans who despise the elitist who rule both parties.

To Bush/Cheney supporters, belongs Iraq; to Obama/Hillary supporters, belongs Afghanistan, Libya, Syria & Ukraine.

Posted by: S Brennan | Aug 23 2021 21:38 utc | 88

by: Biswapriya Purkayast @ 2
So as to make an example of Afghanistan to other colonies that might be inspired to shake off the shackles of Amerikastani imperialist occupation. and Max @ 39 says "60% of Afghanistan has a cell phone..

<=i think digital anything is a death knell for Afghanistan independence and development. there is no security from international intervention in digital anything.

.. I question if the real problem lay with the USA, its leaders are sometimes blackmailed by those who own and support the privately owned globally connected MSM disinformation establishments, digital networks and the monopoly powered corporations which collectively control the administration of the 256 nation different states that are distributed across the world.

The Oligarch disinformation content, when distributed as propaganda, on MSM owned networks, is so powerful it can be used by non state interest to impose regime change on even Presidents, when presidents refuse to conform their behaviors to Oligarch dictated requirements.

The MSM is a most powerful resource at the disposal of non state interest. Often the untouchable MSM are able to force politics, events, decisions that are not in anyone's interest but the interest of those special few persons benefiting from MSM propaganda power.

prof @ 7 says.
with the Taliban victory, the comprador class will lose its gravy train and is freaking out and rushing for the airport. These are the so-called refugees, which the collective West is asking us to cry over.

Why? Because everything about this debacle signals the death of the .. structure of dominance.

<= the debacle signals a failure of private party misinformation propaganda and private parties like Wall Street and City of London financial giants to justify assertions that home governments should provide free security for private party investments in foreign lands? Maybe someone in the bar will post a list of private party contractors, foreign investment owned entities and foreign persons operating in Afghanistan? Please identify the members of the comparador class.. operating in Afghanistan.

Corvo @ 20
What Ghani and his fellow kleptocrats didn't steal is being confiscated by Western banks/governments. <= banks are private entities, they are not government.


Roger @ 21
It will be a small price for Iran, China and Russia to make this happen but a huge propaganda victory, as well as creating a peaceful and prosperous Central Asia in general.
<==to be successful, Afghanistan would do well to close its doors to all outsiders for at least 20 years, to take a step back and to develop it nation skills and manufacturing and technology base. Iran, China and Russia or anyone else s/n/b welcome because debt due to foreign entities will be used to control Afghanistan. .

10 to 1 @ 26 Because it isn't about developing Afghanistan for it's people it's about developing it for ourselves, and no other power. <<==yes but not ourselves (you mean the governed), instead for the benefit of the Oligarchs, using the USA and other nation state governments, to do business in Afghanistan..


Afgun @ 29 There are many families for example where women were the bread earners- what is going to happen to those families?


Asha K. @ 41. doubt what is happening here(in America?) through these past two years would had happened under Taliban rule...<= interesting take? care to elaborate?
asha K. @ 45 Beware all those dozens of flights do not arrive [loaded] to the tilt with weapons for the "northern alliance". <=..frightening thought..

Posted by: snake | Aug 23 2021 21:39 utc | 89

@Biswapriya Purkayast
Regarding the hijab, I'm from Florida. It was not unusual there to see women in bikinis, men topless in their yards, in cars, sometimes even in stores. However, my family was very, very light-skinned. In mid-day, I can get a serious burn outside in an hour. My brother has skin cancer now and I have had many places frozen off my skin to prevent it. Afghanistan is a hot, dry, sunny place. The men cover up a lot also. Sun damage is a serious health problem. You will find the Middle East full of light-skinned people wearing cover. Central Africa, not so much, as darker skin is less sensitive.
Look at India. In the north, women wear more cover. In the past, they were lighter-skinned.
Sure it is a religious thing. But there are many good ideas in religion. Religion isn't solely about dictatorship.

Posted by: HelenB | Aug 23 2021 21:43 utc | 90

As Holbrooke stated in 2009, there is no Afghan problem but the US needs to engage with Pakistan. The Taliban are located on both sides of the border and control the AfPak region from Quetta into North Waziristan. GBW and Rumsfeld refused to engage in talks with Mullah Omar in November 2001. Military commander and Taliban co-founder Mullah Baradar was on death row in Pakistan and released for negotiations with the Trump Administration in Doha. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are one and the same people. The Taliban needs to be acceptable for International financial organizations, thus it will be a cosmetic change for the time being.

Relative of DW journalist killed by the Taliban
https://www.dw.com/en/relative-of-dw-journalist-killed-by-the-taliban/a-58912975

An important piece of the puzzle is the conflict of Kashmir between Pakistan and India and in extension between the US and China. Biden accepted the Doha Agreement of the previous president because he decided there was a new focus on Asia. There is a greater threat for the American way of life than terror. C H I N A

India gives support for the Northern Alliance and Ahmad Massoud. Little has changed in 20 years. There never was a military solution for invaders fighting in Afghanistan … The arch of history shows Afghanistan as burial ground of empires.

Posted by: Oui | Aug 23 2021 22:10 utc | 91

Corvo @ 20 What Ghani and his fellow kleptocrats didn't steal is being confiscated by Western banks/governments. <= banks are private entities, they are not government. [snip' Posted by: snake | Aug 23 2021 21:39 utc | 89
I'm well aware of that. Perhaps I should've set "banks and governments"?

Posted by: corvo | Aug 23 2021 22:23 utc | 92

@ snake (#89), everything has positives and negatives (strengths & weaknesses). The challenge is to balance them for the common good.

“i think digital anything is a death knell for Afghanistan independence and development. there is no security from international intervention in digital anything.”

Disagree. The smartphones enables farmers to get the price info and make good decisions. In the analog world they’re at a disadvantage to the merchants. There are many opportunities in the digital world that can make their lives better. Similarly, nuclear weapons are good as they prevent world wars? If not, the Empire would have attacked Russia and China, and we would have WWIII.

“I question if the real problem lay with the USA, its leaders are sometimes blackmailed by those who own and support the privately owned globally connected MSM disinformation establishments, digital networks....”

Yes, the Financial Oligarchy exploits their control of MSM to harass corporate leaders and fool the society. A good example is J.P. Morgan using the NYT to create rumors about George Westinghouse’s company to drive its stocks down and then buy his company. Westinghouse who enabled electricity, died depressed. The press maintains the Empire’s narratives. It is the rare journalist who wants to enlighten people. Most are courtesans or courtiers. Whoever owns the media owns the populace. Tolkien concluded the media and high finance are inimical to democracy’s success.

PLOY
A favorite shenanigans of the Empire’s Clans and their Operatives is to create multiple entities. The entity that is doing the big looting is completely ignored in the MSM, and attention focused on the minor entity, that they will be happy to sacrifice. An example in the nation’s monetary construct of the central bank and private banks, MSM maintains the myth of money printing by the central banks and very rarely mentions money creation by private banks. The populace foolishly thinks the money exists in the print/physical format.

Over, the past two years (Q4-2019 to Q2-2021) the M1 money supply in the U$A has increased by a whopping $15 TRILLION, while the U$A’s GDP has increased by only $1 trillion over the same period. Where did this huge amount of money 💰 go? Let’s distract the public by talking about the money that Ghani took. No looting by Wall Street and the City...

Who got this $15 trillion (M1) from the last two years?

Posted by: Max | Aug 23 2021 22:52 utc | 93

Temporary strict measures are necessary after a coup .. remember the thousands of people Erdoğan threw in jail after the 'coup' he attributed to gulenists to prevent another coup.
The Talibans are doing exactly that as enemies abound and without tough measures they may lose control of the situation that they got without spilling blood.
In one or two months when they would have crushed the remainders of the old regime and cleaned up all the spies still active,then we could judge them.

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 23 2021 23:03 utc | 94

@Helen B 90:

As I said elsewhere, cultures and societies evolve to suit local conditions just as much as animals and plants do, and attempting to transplant alien mores usually have ruinous consequences.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 23:46 utc | 95

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 23 2021 23:03 utc | 94

"Temporary strict measures are necessary after a coup .. remember the thousands of people Erdoğan threw in jail after the 'coup' he attributed to gulenists to prevent another coup."

Good point Virgile. U.S./Euro imperials will try hard to degrade and destroy the new government. All successful revolutions know that: Cuba, Venezuela, Soviets, China, etc. Nicaragua missed a few steps and lost 15 years. Bolivia lost a year. The Taliban appear to be saavy but their "dance" is on a knife edge and they know it: along with the U.S./Euro slime they are trying to re-orient relations with former enemy Iran and Russia---not easy but all parties want peace and stability (except the Empire) and China is likely a big, big plus which appears to be tipping the balance heavily in favor of the new Taliban government. Bottom line... root out the spies and hard core imperial snakes while easing up on tribal/religious dogma.

Posted by: migueljose | Aug 23 2021 23:58 utc | 96

@FF 18

You're welcome.

(I assume you know who this is.)

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2021 23:59 utc | 97

@73 & 90 Your posts got me thinking. A healthy tan is considered attractive in the West. Brown skinned is just the way people are in many other countries. No need to advertise it. Thais for instance avoid the sun (unless they happen to be planting rice.) Gulf Arabs and Afghans seem to prefer being covered up in loose clothing.

Perhaps there is an element of self-assertion in Florida. Look how free I am, nobody tells me what to wear dammit, I work out, look at my cute ass, tight stomach muscles, and colourful tattoos etc. Or alternatively….I have a big ass and beer belly….so what?

Somewhat OT but I remember in Tangiers a Moroccan friend pointed out the whores to me. To my surprise they were all veiled. Whether they take them off or not during the act I wouldn’t know.

Posted by: dh | Aug 24 2021 0:22 utc | 98

“Americans like to think of ourselves as having valiantly tried to bring democracy to Afghanistan. Afghans, so the narrative goes, just weren’t ready for it, or didn’t care enough about democracy to bother defending it. Or we’ll repeat the cliche that Afghans have always rejected foreign intervention; we’re just the latest in a long line.

I was there. Afghans did not reject us. They looked to us as exemplars of democracy and the rule of law. They thought that’s what we stood for.

And what did we stand for? What flourished on our watch? Cronyism, rampant corruption, a Ponzi scheme disguised as a banking system, designed by U.S. finance specialists during the very years that other U.S. finance specialists were incubating the crash of 2008. A government system where billionaires get to write the rules.

Is that American democracy?”

A good article on Afghanistan fiasco...

“surprisingly abrupt events are often months or years in the quiet making.”

What else are we deluding ourselves about?

Posted by: Max | Aug 24 2021 0:41 utc | 99

Hopehely @ 42:

The jamahiriya-style republican model for Afghanistan to follow could be one that lasted in Libya from 1977 to 2011 under Colonel Muammar Gaddhafi. While he was nominally Head of State, the effective Head of Government was the Secretary-General of the People's Congress. The People's Congress was the Libyan equivalent of a parliament with representatives chosen or elected by Basic People's Congresses (equivalent to local government councils).

The executive functions of Libya's governments (1977 - 2011) were carried out by the Secretary-General and 20 secretaries elected by the Basic People's Congresses.

Everyone in Libya who was eligible to vote belonged to the Basic People's Congress operating in the district where s/he lived so in that sense political participation was compulsory. This was in keeping with the emphasis on decentralising government functions and decision-making, bringing politics closer to ordinary people - meaning that if you want to participate, then you have to participate (even at times when you don't want to).

This might be one model of jamahiriya-style republican governance to follow, with tweaks to accommodate whatever tribal or local community divisions exist in Afghanistan that are particular to the country.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 24 2021 1:03 utc | 100

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