Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 31, 2021

The U.S. Has A Plan For What's Next in Afghanistan - It Does Not Include Peace

Secretary Antony Blinken @SecBlinken - 1:34 UTC · Aug 31, 2021

I want to drive home today that America’s work in Afghanistan continues. We have a plan for what’s next, and we’re putting it into action.

The codename for the plan which Secretary Blinken is putting into action has not been officially released. It will likely be called "Eternal Revenge" or something similar.

The U.S. is not a good loser. Nor are President Biden and Blinken. They will take revenge for the public outcry their chaotic evacuation of troops and civilians from Afghanistan has caused. The Taliban will be blamed for it even as they, following U.S. requests, had escorted groups of U.S. citizens to the gates of Kabul's airport.

One can anticipate what their plan entails by looking at the process that led to yesterdays UN Security Council resolution about Afghanistan. The full resolution has not been published yet but the UN reporting on it gives the gist:

Security Council urges Taliban to provide safe passage out of Afghanistan

Thirteen of the 15 ambassadors voted in favour of the resolution, which further demands that Afghanistan not be used as a shelter for terrorism.

Permanent members China and Russia abstained.

As the resolution only 'urges' it is obviously minimal and not binding. It is not what the U.S. had set out to achieve. It wanted a much stronger one with possible penalties (see 'holding ... accountable' below) should the Taliban not follow it.

Prior to the UNSC meeting France and Great Britain had proposed to create a 'safe zone' in Kabul. That request has been silently dropped - likely over Chinese and Russian concerns about Afghanistan's sovereignty.

On August 29 Blinken had talked with China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi about a binding resolution. The State Department readout of the call was minimal:

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken spoke today with PRC State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi about the importance of the international community holding the Taliban accountable for the public commitments they have made regarding the safe passage and freedom to travel for Afghans and foreign nationals.

The readout by China reveals that much more than that was discussed:

Wang said that the situation in Afghanistan has undergone fundamental changes, and it is necessary for all parties to make contact with the Taliban and guide it actively.

The United States, in particular, needs to work with the international community to provide Afghanistan with urgently-needed economic, livelihood and humanitarian assistance, help the new Afghan political structure maintain normal operation of government institutions, maintain social security and stability, curb currency depreciation and inflation, and embark on the journey of peaceful reconstruction at an early date, he said.

The U.S. has blocked Afghanistan's Central Bank reserves, has stopped any budgeted payments to Afghanistan and ordered the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank to block their Afghanistan programs.

This will paralyze all functions of the Afghan state. The World Bank is for example currently responsible for paying Afghan teachers and medical personnel. Afghanistan is experiencing a drought and will need to import large amounts of food. With its foreign assets blocked it has no way to do that.

China is clearly aware that Afghanistan will experience a human catastrophe should the U.S. continue its economic blockade.

There is also the danger of terrorism which the U.S. failed to address:

Wang urged the United States, on the premise of respecting Afghanistan's sovereignty and independence, to take concrete actions to help Afghanistan combat terrorism and violence, instead of practicing double standards or fighting terrorism selectively.

The U.S. side clearly knows the causes of the current chaotic situation in Afghanistan, Wang noted, adding that any action to be taken by the UNSC should contribute to easing tensions instead of intensifying them, and contribute to a smooth transition of the situation in Afghanistan rather than a return to turmoil.

China is specifically concerned about the "East Turkestan Islamic Movement" (ETIM) in east Afghanistan which the Trump administration had last year taken off its terrorist list even though the organization continues to target China. The Biden administration has made no attempt to revive the terrorist designation of ETIM.

Russia has similar concerns as its Permanent Representative Vassily Nebenzia explained after abstaining from the resolution:

We had to do this because the authors of the draft had ignored our principled concerns.

Firstly, despite the fact that the draft resolution was proposed against the backdrop of a heinous terrorist attack, the sponsors refused to mention ISIL and “Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement” – the organizations that are internationally recognized as terrorist – in the paragraph on counter-terrorism. We interpret it as unwillingness to recognize the obvious and an inclination to divide terrorists into “ours” and “theirs”. Attempts to "downplay” threats emanating from these groups are unacceptable.

Secondly, during the negotiations we emphasized the unacceptability and negative impacts of evacuation of Afghan highly qualified personnel for Afghanistan’s socio-economic situation. If experiencing a “brain drain”, the country will not be able to achieve Sustainable Development Goals. These elements that are vital for the Afghan people were nor reflected in the text of the resolution.

Thirdly, the authors ignored our proposal to have the document state the adverse effects that freezing of Afghan financial assets had on the economic and humanitarian situation in the country, and mention the fact that humanitarian assistance to Afghanistan must imperatively comply with the UN guiding principles, stipulated in UNGA resolution 46/182.

The first concern Nebenzia mentions is a node to the Chinese concerns. The second one is based on a concern the Taliban had raised when they declined to prolong the U.S. evacuation of educated Afghan people. The third one is the most important.

Russia had proposed to lift the block on Afghan assets. The U.S. has rejected that. That makes it quite obvious that the U.S. intends to keep these in place. It will use them to make demands which the Taliban will be unable to fulfill.

At the same time the U.S. will uses its ISPK (ISIS-K) and 'Northern Alliance' assets in Afghanistan to continue the war and to make successful efforts to govern Afghanistan impossible.

It will then blame the Taliban for the inevitable results.

Posted by b on August 31, 2021 at 17:35 UTC | Permalink

« previous page

Will China, Russia and other nations show courage and creativity?

It is time for China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Switzerland, India and other nations that have any financial holdings at the Fed or in the US$, to show creativity and courage. They need to UNITE to create a financial entity (FE) under the UN to transfer all their US$ holdings (bonds, securities,...). Also, the solvency and liquidity of this FE be guaranteed by conversion to new drawing rights and control over US$ in the international arena. In the event the U$A fails in its obligations, then it be declared bankrupt and the assets of its companies, copyrights, intellectual property be confiscated towards payment for liabilities. This way nations can’t be held HOSTAGE by the Dollar Empire. Also, our world enters a new era that ends enslavement by the Monetary Imperialism.

Why use the US$ private money? Got conscience?

Is it time to FORECLOSE on the Dollar Oligarchy?

Posted by: Max | Aug 31 2021 23:46 utc | 101

Gordog 100

That is also my thoughts on Syria. I think the Israelis used to run up the Syrian side of the Syria Jordan border until Syria downed one and since then they overfly Jordan.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 31 2021 23:48 utc | 102

At the same time the U.S. will uses its ISPK (ISIS-K) and 'Northern Alliance' assets in Afghanistan to continue the war and to make successful efforts to govern Afghanistan impossible.

Glad to see we're taking the Panjshir 'resistance' a bit more seriously now.

As I pointed out a number of times earlier this is a cancer that can be fed by the US if it wishes to keep stirring the pot in Afghanistan.

Combined with its ISIS proxies and black ops groups this 'tiny threat' can grow into a formidable problem just as ISIS in the Levant did...

And as for the notion that they're isolated in their little valley: I don't believe the nonsense some keep spouting about Pakistan blocking its airspace: It has always complied with US requests for overflights, it has no choice in the matter.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 1 2021 0:00 utc | 103

Max:It is time for China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Switzerland, India and other nations that have any financial holdings at the Fed or in the US$, to show creativity and courage. They need to UNITE to create a financial entity (FE) under the UN to transfer all their US$ holdings (bonds, securities,...). Also, the solvency and liquidity of this FE be guaranteed by conversion to new drawing rights and control over US$ in the international arena. In the event the U$A fails in its obligations, then it be declared bankrupt and the assets of its companies, copyrights, intellectual property be confiscated towards payment for liabilities.

Me: Vetoed by U$ury $lavery Armament$, Perfidious Albion, and possibly France in the Security Council.

Expect nothing but US obstruction in the UN now.

Posted by: William Haught | Sep 1 2021 1:01 utc | 104

Arch Bungle #103

Absolutely agree. The smallest crack in the wall will enable the suffocating stench of FUKUSA to pollute their freedom.

The early dismissals were ill informed and gross underestimates of the FUKUSA belligerence.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 1 2021 1:04 utc | 105

ian @ 48
That depends on what you think the purpose of the war was. If it was to enrich defense contractors with tax dollars, it wasn't a blunder. Viewed in this light, Afghanistan was a spectacular success.

I tend to agree with that. Vietnam was a meat grinder and a moneymaker for this death cult. I told the Marxists in the Bay Area that in 2006 and I thought I was going to lose my head.

Oil prices skyrocketed, the defense industry was humming, they got the populace waving the flag, and the Israeli's were happy. How is that a loser for them?

They didn't want to hear that, they though we were losing. They were right in part. We were losing, the death cult cabal was winning.

The world is a much different place in 2021 and they have yet to realize the change. Unless they got some crazy high tech flying saucers with lasers they are in big big trouble.

Posted by: circumspect | Sep 1 2021 1:33 utc | 106

Just a note about Heart Land in Eurasia: The Zoroastrian believed that centre of the world was there, in around Afghanistan, there are three cities or towns still in existence , Yarkand(China), Samarkand(Uzbekistan), and Kandahar(Afghanistan) , this was know as triangle of Paradise, Ghand is a Persian word means Sugar/Sweet, it also refers to Sweet Fruit, Paradise for these people was where these fruits grew:
Before the Yellow Races appeared, the Iranians were the dominate people in that region. If you get a map and connects lines between the three points the triangle becomes clear! Visiting Yarghand and Samarghand , fruits are major produce there, as well there Natural Forests of Walnuts!

Posted by: Grishka | Sep 1 2021 2:19 utc | 107

re: holding the Taliban accountable for the public commitments they have made regarding the safe passage and freedom to travel for Afghans and foreign nationals

There is nothing in the US-Taliban Agreement here regarding these "public commitments" which is why State said "public commitments" which don't exist either.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 1 2021 2:40 utc | 108

Correction @Aug31 20:36 #56

This is actually not accurate:

[Biden]... conveniently forgets and implicitly forgives CIA 'estimates' ...

Biden did mention the CIA estimates but he waives it away and says that a collapse in the government was planned for.


@4:16 in the video-taped speech, Biden says:

In April, [forcefully:]I made a decision to end this war. As part of this decision we set the date of August 31st for American troops to withdraw.

The assumption was that the more than 300,000 Afghan National security forces that we had train over the past two decades - and equipped - would be a strong adversary in their civil wars with the Taliban. That assumption - that the Afghan government would be able to hold on for a period of time beyond military draw-down turned out not to be accurate. But, I still instructed our national security team to prepare for every eventuality - even that one. And that's what we did.

So we were ready, when the Afghan security forces - after two decades of fighting for their country, and losing thousands of their own, did not hold on as long as anyone expected.

This is really spectacularly deceptive:
  • I made a decision to end this war.

    Most critics have complained about how the war was ended, not that it was ended.

  • ... we set the date of August 31st for American troops to withdraw.

    It's uncertain who Biden refers to when he says "we". It's probably his national security team in conjunction/coordination with the military. This is how Biden sloughs-off any responsibility for the botched 'pull-out'.

  • The assumption was ... turned out not to be accurate.

    Strangely, Biden doesn't try to explain why this "assumption" turned out to be so wrong. And he ignores the critics that lambasted the CIA estimates - especially after USA pulled out of Baghram.

  • But, I still instructed our national security team to prepare for every eventuality - even that one. And that's what we did.

    Really? WHEN was an Afghan government collapse planned for? When Biden decided to follow-thru on Trump's ending of the war? When the US Military abandoned Baghram? When the Afghan government fell?

    Many of the commentators that I've seen say that an orderly withdraw would have been much easier from Baghram. So it seems strange that Biden says that a government collapse was planned for because secretly and surreptitiously leaving Baghram a move that signals NO CONFIDENCE in the Afghan government.

  • So we were ready ...

    This is Biden's answer to those that demanded that Biden extend the pull-out! WE .. WERE .. READY!

    Having PLANNED for a TOTAL defeat and collapse of the Afghan government occurring BEFORE August 31st, Biden DIDN'T NEED to ask for an extension!

    But it this is true, then why is it that no one in the Administration told us of this planning during the DAYS of harsh criticism that they received when the civilian evacuation began?

Biden received a ton of criticism for not demanding that the Taliban extend the date. Everyone assumed that Biden had accepted the Taliban's August 31st "red line" but after the American casualties from the ISIS-K bombing, partisan critics stopped lambasting Biden for kowtowing to the Taliban.

Biden's assertion of 'planning' also raises the disturbing possibility that any planning for an Afghan government collapse was not to prepare for it but to CAUSE it.

Why would USA govt want the Afghan government to fall as it's leaving? To stage a 'humanitarian rescue' and terrorist incident that distract from public anger. Biden pretends he is a hero for ending a war that should've been ended more than 10 years ago. He portrays US troops as heros. And (surprise!) we have a new terrorist danger from Afghanistan, right from central casting: ISIS-K.

<> <> <> <> <> <>

Biden's partisan critics are little better. They tell their audience lots of crazy nonsense that is less than honest.

One that is being bandied about now is the Taliban didn't live up to the agreement that Trump signed with them - but Biden pulled out anyway.

But AFAIK it was the Afghan government that didn't pursue power-sharing talks. They resorted to military action instead. Which was a spectacular failure.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2021 2:48 utc | 109

Here's a good resource that collects information about what some are calling the Abbey Gate Massacre in which it is asserted that American troops actually slaughtered many of the Afghani civilians killed in the August 26 Kabul Airport bombing:

Abbey Gate massacre

Also, another article on this topic:

US, Turkish troops allegedly responsible for most civilian deaths following Kabul airport attack: Update

In no way should America or its Coalition crime partners be allowed to bury this crime down the Orwellian MemoryHole.

Posted by: ak74 | Sep 1 2021 3:19 utc | 110

@ William Haught (#104), it will be foolish of anyone to think this will be a slam dunk. The UN is just one way. The Dollar Empire is ruthless and shrewd.

Another way, is to create a private entity like BIS, B$S (Bank of $ Settlement) and use a digital currency platform to create a secondary market with complete transparency (like Eurodollars), so it wins TRUST and confidence. Global discussions are happening and accelerating. Even in central Africa they’re working towards ending French Monetary Imperialism. Many are unhappy with the status quo. Kairos will arrive!

A system can’t lie forever. Even the top layer has become slaves of power and unhappy. The fact you’re referring to it as “U$ury $lavery Armament$”, demonstrates change is happening. Mist of lies, myths and fraud will fall apart. “In God We Trust”

Posted by: Max | Sep 1 2021 3:35 utc | 111

These few sentences say all anyone needs to know about the empire's intent;

The United States, in particular, needs to work with the international community to provide Afghanistan with urgently-needed economic, livelihood and humanitarian assistance, help the new Afghan political structure maintain normal operation of government institutions, maintain social security and stability, curb currency depreciation and inflation, and embark on the journey of peaceful reconstruction at an early date, he said.

The U.S. has blocked Afghanistan's Central Bank reserves, has stopped any budgeted payments to Afghanistan and ordered the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank to block their Afghanistan programs.

The first paragraph, YES

The second shows the empire's true intent

Posted by: vetinLA | Sep 1 2021 3:54 utc | 112

Modi media went to town with this hoax yesterday morning. Yesterday evening the regime saw reality and began negotiations with the Taliban.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 1 2021 4:05 utc | 113

I cant help chuckling at Caitlin's works, just like b, The lady never beat about the bush...

Exhibit A

Now Would Be A Great Time For George W Bush To Shut The Fuck Up...

Fuck the royals...

If the US empire hadn’t manufactured consent for the invasion by aggressive narrative management about Taliban oppression westerners would give zero fucks about women in Afghanistan, just like they give zero fucks about women in all the other oppressive patriarchal nations. This is all just people who don’t think much about the consequences of US warmongering having an emotional reaction to their sudden realization that US warmongering has consequences.

Australian War Crimes Report Means Get The Fuck Out Of Afghanistan

Caitlin for prez !!!

Posted by: denk | Sep 1 2021 5:07 utc | 114

About 'over-the-horizon' airstrikes: Scott Ritter has a good piece up that gets into some military-technical detail.

That strike on the supposed ISIS vehicle near the Kabul airport that killed 10, including seven children is discussed in detail. What a tragic story. He links to an in-depth NYT report that fully captures the human tragedy, in both words and pictues.

It turns out the targeted man was a longtime worker for an American-based charity, and was delivering soy-based food products for needy locals on that day. As he pulled into the family home courtyard, children rushed excitedly outdoors to greet him!

It was at that moment that a Hellfire missile, fired from a drone ship circling high above, ripped the car to shreds. The Good Samaritan and four of his children were blown to dust, along with five others.

How could the remote pilots of that MQ9, sitting in an air force drone pilot trailer in Nevada, not see those children?

How could the so-called intel identify this man as an 'ISIS' bomber? Killed along with him was his nephew, who had been a guard at a US base. He had received high praise from a supervising US officer on his visa application.

I felt the same rage reading this NYT story, as I did some twenty years prior when reading about an entire family killed in their own home by a high-precision laser bomb in Serbia.

Neither case was any kind of 'mistake.' It was just little ant people getting deliberately blown away from high we saw in Julian Assange's Collateral Murder video.

How is this supposed to go on now that the US has packed up and gone?

That MQ9 took off from the Al Udeid airbase in Qatar, some 1,400 miles away. These are large aircraft for drones, with a max takeoff weight of 12,000 pounds, fully half of that in fuel---allowing for a return flight of up to 1,600 miles each way.

It would have flown in nearly a straight line eastbound from Qatar, overflying Dubai, and then making a northward left turn near the Pakistan port city of Gwadar, hard by the Iran border to the west. That's about 650 miles, then another 750 or so north to Kabul through Pak airspace.

Is Imran Khan supposed to just continue approving such overflights?

Why would the US even bother, when it has no eyes and ears on the ground anymore?

Would the military even request it? For what possible purpose?

And would Biden even approve such a request [after the fallout that's sure to come after this obvious massacre of a decent family that was only ever helping the US]?

At a house nearby, a group of female relatives of the victims had gathered, some standing in bewilderment, others wailing aloud.

Anissa Ahmadi, Zemari Ahmadi’s wife, who lost four of her children in the explosion in addition to her husband, sat in a state of shock, unable to speak above a whisper. Her daughter Samia, beside her, gave voice to the grief and anger many felt.

“America used us to defend itself, and now they’ve destroyed Afghanistan,” she said. “Whoever dropped this bomb on our family, may God punish you.”

Posted by: Gordog | Sep 1 2021 6:52 utc | 115

William Haught @ 104

The Swiss just bought the incredible lemon the F-35 from the US in a very expensive
and foolish move. Somehow I doubt they are going to change their complete lackey status.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Sep 1 2021 7:14 utc | 116

It should be borne in mind that Ayatolla Mike thought the Taliban were without SAM.

And then SAM tapped him in mid flight just after Soleimani and al-Muhandis were murdered by FUKUS.

The Taliban stood watch over the burning wreckage and engaged the FUKUS 'rescue' mission until they were sure he was dead.

So if idiot Blinken is imagining air strikes at his whim then I am fairly sure the Taliban are equally imaginative.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 1 2021 7:41 utc | 117

1) Julian Assange clearly stated what the war on a Adjective was about - boot filling of public funds created by fiat by National Banks.
He is punished for pulling down these curtains. As is Craig Murray. And others illegally politically imprisoned without trials by juries.

Yes, as some barflies have noted the start of the lies and the Financial Imperialism that is in it’s Dominate phase, goes back to the C16th at least, with the creation of the Nation States and their National Banks (which were PRIVATELY owned) under the auspices of the Papal rubber stampers.
Nobody blinks even at the disconnect of a WORLD Bank that kowtows to the USA State Department!!!

Posted by: DG | Sep 1 2021 7:57 utc | 118

2 ) The Chinese lifted ALL their poorest. As has Russia under Putin

Their citizens disposable income is massive enough for airlines full of holiday makers to what were ‘traditional’ European hotspots.
Yanks don’t do real vacations as they slave under a self delusional Dream of Hard Work and No Security all their deluded lives always insecure.

The dumb attempts at ‘Extending’ Russia and China into folly ain’t going to work.

3) As I have said on other threads, when people talk of Over The Horizon - they completely ignore that also means an ability to DEFEND as well as attack from OTH.

Blowback will be hypersonic fast. No need to actually put outdated manpads on the ground.

Posted by: DG | Sep 1 2021 7:59 utc | 119

4) U2’s flew out of Pakistan airbases don’t forget.

Pakistan/India are and have always been in the pockets of the cfr types ever since the East India Company (EIC) came a calling.

Pakistan and Indian Intelligence Agencies are directly linked to CIA/MI6 through that postwar (WW2) setup, as was senior military of the British Indian Army - split artificially into a sore scab that will always be picked at.

Pakistan and India preserve their poorest and least educated for their menial slave forces - the Middle East cities of Dubai and Qatar were built by them under the scorching sun.
The World Cup is cursed because of that.

Other SouthEast Asian countries have been the same - Thailand, Vietnam etc, to provide the never ending supply of young girls and boys for prostitution and cheap house servants. Bangladeshis & Burmese for the cheapest disposable slave Labour that man plenty of trawlers that fish the oceans to death (yes many are Chinese owned). So it goes for the last 20 years Afghanis who are suddenly being airlifted straight through the west instead of drowned, murdered, raped and robbed on their trek from the gel hole that we have made under our ‘protection’.

The Refugee ‘crises’ consist mostly of people from these countries and was created by the same Powers. I don’t see as many Russians and Chinese as I did 20 years ago in London.

I don’t see anyone crying over the asylum seekers from these places under our military control over the last 20 years.

Posted by: DG | Sep 1 2021 8:01 utc | 120

If Taliban are harboring terrorists then that is not peace either.

Posted by: Malchik Ralf | Sep 1 2021 8:04 utc | 121

Finally for now

5) The diaspora from the subcontinent allow for a deep connect to the tribal homelands and in graft and corruption, for the status quo to continue. Look at the very visible senior Cabinet members of the U.K. government and equally the US - Kamala!

These are the apparatchiks as they were conceived with the EIC going back to the beginning of this history - mere tax collectors and slave masters - the petty bureaucrat ‘patels’ of the Company - They come in all political flavours;-)

Posted by: DG | Sep 1 2021 8:04 utc | 122

May I offer a little hope to all those who are legitimately concerned about the West’s will to sabotage any attempt at post-colonial independence?

US's plan does not include peace? Unfortunately, nothing new...

But let’s remember the last 40 years in Iran. Let’s just note the considerable progress of the anti-colonial axe in the world, [even if it is not purely anti-imperialist, basically, Max rightly, a question of de-dollarization].
After the 1953 coup, the US installed a puppet regime that held its place for 25 years and it collapsed like a house of cards. The West has always underestimated the ideological cement that unite a people and its culture. And so Khomeini and [Shiite] Islam. Wikipedia informs us “naïvely”

From early 1979 to either 1982 or 1983 Iran was in a "revolutionary crisis mode." After the system of despotic monarchy had been overthrown, the economy and the apparatus of government had collapsed, and military and security forces were in disarray. Yet, by 1982 Khomeini and his supporters had crushed the rival factions, defeated local rebellions and consolidated power.
In September 1980, Iraq took advantage of the febrile situation and invaded Iran.
While enormously costly and destructive, the war "rejuvenate[d] the drive for national unity and Islamic revolution" and "inhibited fractious debate and dispute" in Iran.

But after 10 years of economic strangulation and wars, all initiated by an all-powerful post-colonial West, Iran “Islamic Republic” continued its revolution.
Authentically anti-imperialist.

And although widely accessible by sea, by Iraq or by Pakistan and Afghanistan, Iran today is not threatened by the "war by UAV" and "policing beyond the horizon" [which is itself still an imperial or Hollywood narrative] misleading].
Agree with Gordog : ineffective and unsustainable.

It is possible to admit that the revolution of precision missiles, highlighted in Yemen and in January 2020 in Ain al-Assad, is a major change in the situation.
How long will it take for Afghanistan to collaborate with China, Iran, North Korea, Yemen and be equipped?
And another revolution is effective communication like RT, GT, PressTV or Yemeni News Bulletin.
I am waiting for TNN 😋

In conclusion, the situation of Afghanistan today, with Iran, China and Russia as its immediate neighbour, is much more comfortable than it was in Iran in 1979. It’s certainly not going to be a long, quiet river. But it will depend first and foremost on the will of the Afghan people.
As rightly said (Grischka #107, Jinn #97) , they have lived here for centuries and until recently without Western "support" .

Posted by: Jibril | Sep 1 2021 8:46 utc | 123

Jibril 123

Revolution Iran was required to drive up the oil price. US done the deal with the Saudis for the Petro dollar after they discovered the oil at Prudhoe Bay. The Iran revolution kicked off within weeks of the first barrel of oil coming through the Trans Alaska pipeline. After that the US never looked back. Everybody had to buy expensive oil in US dollars. That is what is being rolled back only now by Russia and China.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 1 2021 9:05 utc | 124

And stay focused on the "Biden's" assumption

was that the more than 300,000 Afghan National security forces that we had train over the past two decades - and equipped - would be a strong adversary in their civil wars with the Taliban. That assumption - that the Afghan government would be able to hold on for a period of time beyond military

As any defeated Colonial power on the leave, Yankeestan can only prepare for civil wars.
But the Talibans don't take the bait, neither Afghan "soldiers"
As etymology explains, most of them were just on US pay roll.
From Middle English soudeour, from Old French soudier or soudeour (“mercenary”), from Medieval Latin soldarius (“soldier (one having pay)”)

Posted by: Jibril | Sep 1 2021 9:06 utc | 125

@ Peter AU1 | Sep 1 2021 9:05 utc | 124
Iranian Islamic revolution was [is] an authentic one. Period.

Mistakes from outside are always welcomed.

Posted by: Jibril | Sep 1 2021 9:11 utc | 126


There were no mistakes a path was deliberately left open. The revolution was genuine.
As with ISIS, they were given conditions under which they could grow and thrive though in that case US did plant the seed so it would grow.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 1 2021 9:39 utc | 127

A religious revolution kicks off in the oilfields..
"Strikes began in Iran’s oil fields in the autumn 1978 and by January 1979, crude oil production declined by 4.8 million barrels per day, or about 7 percent of world production at the time. Other producers were able to make up some of the volume, resulting in a net loss of supply of about 4 to 5 percent. Nevertheless, oil prices climbed rapidly, rising from $13 per barrel in mid-1979 to $34 per barrel in mid-1980."

"Panic buying more than doubled the actual shortage. Oil on the spot market sold for as much as $50 per barrel.

The Iranian revolution and the oil price shocks that followed catalyzed a number of important changes in petroleum markets that remain in place today."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 1 2021 9:50 utc | 128

It has only been two days since USA left Afghanistan and now the reality is starting to sink in.

I like to read into future and also study history of the past. An empire in contraction is rarely able to come back again. Maybe so much has been put into motion that to disengage from it all is not possible. The corruption and object rotten nepotism all over USA is the internal disease that is rotting the fish.

How will murica balance the next months of internal discord, while beign able to continue projecting global power? They are connected in a way that the welfare and bread&circus at home needs the dollar to stay afloat. At the same time, the immigration from the south is their "german and Goth" barbarians at the gate in a different fashion.

China (especially) will continue to challenge USA in the Pacific, while Russia will continue to hold their serve while improving domestically.

I am most concerned about how my Europe will fare. I detest the EU and it is not the tool to restore Europe and protect it. I believe a stronger drive will come for Nordic integration and detachment from EU, once we figure out how to do it.

The empire is fading and then they are dangerous as never before. I wonder what will happen next....

Posted by: Harald | Sep 1 2021 10:42 utc | 129

Incase everyone hasn't quite got the message about Over The Horizon. This article (yes I know it is propaganda) should confirms why uncle sam stuck to its retreat promise to be well iover the Horizon by today.

The SCO throws a security blanket over ALL its members and dumb headchoppping proxies are on their own now with a final, final warning. This only ends one way for them.
As it will for the neocon DS mercenary praetorians and executives - think you are safe to in your Turkish villas, yachts and bases across the globe?Think again.

"PLA breaks cross-border railway transport record in joint anti-terrorism drills in Russia"

'The Peace Mission-2021 exercise of SCO member states will be held at Donguz training range in Orenburg, Russia, from September 11 to 25. It will cover training items including reconnaissance and monitoring, firepower strike, peripheral blockade and control, sweeping terrorists' dens in streets, forward defense, ground assault, as well as separation, encirclement and annihilation of terrorists, and resistance to drone attacks'

'In a separate arrangement, China will host the first multinational peacekeeping live exercise dubbed Shared Destiny-2021'

'Militaries of China, Pakistan, Mongolia and Thailand will dispatch more than 1,000 troops to participate in the drills,'

'At a time when the US is making its irresponsible, hasty and chaotic troop withdrawal from Afghanistan that has led to a degradation of the security situation in and around the region, as well as rallying up its allies for several drills targeting China, China's participation and hosting of anti-terrorism and peacekeeping drills shows a sharp contrast between the two countries, observers said.'

Posted by: DG | Sep 1 2021 11:02 utc | 130

@ Peter...

Strikes in Oil & refinery are nearly the end of the story...
I remember series of escalating protests broking out in major cities, and deadly riots. SAVAK savagely organize murders and arsons.
Shah was just "looking weak" or "try to negotiate" for westerners.

Don't consider the consequences for the cause. I hope an Islamic kind of democracy is on the rise in Afghanistan too. Look not at all as western oligarchy in disguise.
In God we trust.

Posted by: Jibril | Sep 1 2021 11:03 utc | 131

Jibril 131

I read today Taliban intends setting up a system of governance based on the Iranian model. I think that was in Tass or RT.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 1 2021 11:17 utc | 132

vk in the opening comment would have it that US involvement in Vietnam was a “blunder”

US was heavily involved in Vietnam beginning in the latter part of WWII. It was a thirty year effort.

Some mistakes are mistakes. Even evil people make mistakes. Don’t forget about the presence of evil.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Sep 1 2021 12:14 utc | 133

jinn @ 97

The Taliban are in charge of a nation where most of the people are not dependent on the global economy

A very prescient observation. It would be a shame for the Afghans to squander such a position of ascendancy.

Posted by: john | Sep 1 2021 12:25 utc | 134

‘Over-the-horizon’ is just the newest buzz phrase for American incompetence – as proven by recent drone strikes in Afghanistan

Gordog explains why it's difficult [if not impossible] to fly an UAV to Afghanistan.
An interesting piece by Scott Ritter explains why the mission is to fail.

Technically well explained, here is the conclusion

when the only tool available is an MQ-9 drone operated by crews who are not up to the task of properly identifying and tracking targets, then the only solution will be a Hellfire missile which, when employed, will more often than not kill innocent civilians.

Posted by: Jibril | Sep 1 2021 12:34 utc | 135

Abject failure in Afghanistan.
Failure for the warmongering Security State/Deep State and their so-called War on Terrorism.

Hold tight!

The War on Terrorism isn't going away.
The Security State/Deep State is simply turning it's
Eye of Sauron towards US citizens.

The bible of the Deep State is Foreign Affairs mag.
Today it's front page cover story paints a jihadi image of Americans.

The Security State/Deep State took a deep breath after Kabul
and will barely skip a beat -- Wars must continue.

What is their next play? How fast can they put together
a spectacular false-flag that paints Americans a deeper red color of jihadi?

Posted by: librul | Sep 1 2021 12:51 utc | 136

@66 vk
"Controlling Afghanistan would give the USA a direct land route to China's most vulnerable point (Xinjiang and Tibet) and also (through Tajikstan etc.) to Russia's "soft underbelly". Plus, in the distant future, it would give a springboard for a direct threat to India and Iran. The geopolitical projection the domination of Afghanistan gives to a non-Eurasian empire on Eurasian affairs is self-evident - with or without the concept of Heartland."

Correctly. And the key to the control of France is the Massif Central. It provides the shortes land rout to both the Atlantic and the Mediterranean and is close to to Paris. It is also constitutes the "high ground" of France and it is, well, MASSIVE. Plus, in the distant future, it would give a springboard for a direct threat to Benelux, Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Italy and the "soft underbelly" of the UK. The geopolitical importance of the Massif Central is self-evident, isn`t it?

Nah, sorry. I agree that the USA elite takes this silly theory seriously. The invasion of Afghanistan makes no sense otherwise.

But Mackinder is really only right as long as you sit in an office and stare at a map ignoring all the nasty details on the ground that make up the reality. The only thing that Washington got from 20 years of occupation of Afghanistan has been 20 years of war with the Taliban. No access to vulberable points, no springboards. Just the constant drain of a neverending war.

Posted by: m | Sep 1 2021 13:14 utc | 137

Posted by: m | Sep 1 2021 13:14 utc | 137

Agree, McKinder always looked like a Navy guy projecting his desires and biases onto the rest of the world. I.e. marketing bullshit at bottom.

Theories are a dime a dozen really. You can see lots of them right here. Stare at something for a while and your mind will start making up theories about it.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 1 2021 13:25 utc | 138

@ Posted by: m | Sep 1 2021 13:14 utc | 137]

Well, there's a reason France dominated the European Peninsula geopolitical affairs for hundreds of years after the fall of the Roman Empire in the West.

When Rome dominated the European Peninsula, the Mediterranean Sea was more important than the "Continent". With the fall of the slave system of Antiquity and the rise of Feudalism, the land became more important than the sea for the economy of the region, and France-West Germany became the center of Europe.

Development of the productive forces matter. Geography is not an exact science. Nowadays, the European Peninsula already is firmly in American hands (see the NATO bases there) through a much more technologically advanced and sophisticated system. Plus, Europe is in decline for some 30 years straight now, it is not that important anymore.

But as I said earlier, the importance of Mackinder is not his legitimacy as a scientist, but that the American elites take him seriously. The most influential intellectuals are not the best, but the most politically expedient. It doesn't matter if Mackinder makes scientific sense, but that his theory most perfectly camouflages and legitimates the interests of the dominant classes of the most powerful empire (UK; USA).

If you look closely at the map, you'll see that all the American potential threats can be reached by land from Afghanistan: India, Russia, China and Iran. Unless you're referring to the France of the 18th Century, your comparison is pure nonsense.

Posted by: vk | Sep 1 2021 13:45 utc | 139

I second @44Gordog, @67PeterAU1 main points:

Little U.S. para-military projection capacity

Evolutionary not revolutionary cultural and economic development. Tribalism needs a make-over, and that's some tough, slow sledding. I expect some factional rivalries to erupt, and that is the biggest internal threat.

Second biggest threat is economic lock-up. Food production down (drought), lot of urban dwellers with high income expectations based on 20 years of graft, and bottom of that has dropped out. That's a lot discomfort. Those people need something to do - a construction project best of all, and they need it pretty quick.

@62 Patroklos
"Russia and China need to intervene directly and open up full lines of supply now."

Tom: Yes. Russia has, I believe, a food surplus from within (for the first time in many decades). Rail lines to northern Afg thru Uzbekistan. Both Iran and Pak have significant (relatively) small commercial and industrial investments, as well as functional supply conduits into Afg. Iran doesn't have food to give, but may transport food or material on behalf of China.

and to @82 and @100 Gordog:

This is great insight, and I hope your insights hold out.

Given prior behavior, I can't believe Taliban would expect any western econ or financial support. China and Russia and Iran have all been through this game many a time (Russia and Iran in particular), they will not be caught out.

So, it seems the independent variables for this model are:

a. How much disruption can the west muster going forward? Gordog says "little", and I hope he's right.

b. How much supply can Afghanistan negotiate for from China, Russia, Iran and Pakistan? They can transport the support, but they have to do the deals in order to get that support shipped. I keep expecting announcements on that front, but maybe it's smarter to not-announce, and just do the deals quietly, and commence shipment of food and construction material.

c. How good at internal statesmanship are the Taliban (PeterAU1s point about tribal-ness). That tribal-ness may end up being a plus if the Taliban can continue to cut internal economic and political (status of the various tribes) deals. The tribes apparently work pretty well (achieve coherent behavior) once alliances and decisions are made. How long do the alliances and decisions hold?

We'll see.

d. How long till the econ devel projects come on-line? Transport-lanes and minerals seem to be the basis for keeping China-Russia-Pak-Iran on-side, and the sooner they start, the more committed those partners are.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 1 2021 13:50 utc | 140

So there are a couple of hundred Americans (maybe more) left behind
in Afghanistan + the US has frozen Afghan central bank funds. What
happens next? I doubt that the Taliban will release the Americans
without getting the cash.

Posted by: Nick Patterson | Sep 1 2021 13:51 utc | 141

Is the USA descending into a period of military anarchy? Place your bets:

‘Loss of trust’ in US leaders: Marine punished for Afghan pullout criticism RESIGNS effective 9/11 & calls for ‘revolution’

Posted by: vk | Sep 1 2021 13:53 utc | 142

I've read in some North Atlantisist propaganda media that the US Attach Forces managed to destroy a lot of planes, helicopters and vehicles before fleeing from Bagram air base. Anyone who knows whether this piece of news was factually true?

Posted by: Tollef Ås/秋涛乐/טלפ וש | Sep 1 2021 13:59 utc | 143

August ended.
We can finally departure of US troops from Afghanistan!

Posted by: Smith | Sep 1 2021 14:09 utc | 144

The Taliban way of dealing with fake news lol

Posted by: Afgun | Sep 1 2021 14:13 utc | 145

@ Nick Patterson 141

If Taliban are smart they would not even think of that...for it would be used as an excuse against them for decades. They were awfully stupid not so much.

I am positive that China would be more than willing to fork that $ 9 Billion....given the current state of affairs.

Posted by: Afgun | Sep 1 2021 14:27 utc | 146

@143 Can't understand the fuss about the abandoned equipment. It served its purpose as a money maker for the arms industry. Most of that stuff is useless without maintenance and spare parts anyway.

Posted by: dh | Sep 1 2021 14:31 utc | 147

Dem merchants are sad that they can't sell the junks to another country.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 1 2021 14:36 utc | 148

Biden and the Anti-Left PSYOP

Biden's nonsensical claim that he instructed his team to prepare for the eventuality of an Afghan government collapse (despite his stated confidence in the 300,000 strong Afghan National Defense forces AND his Administration's silence when criticized harshly about not extending the deadline for withdrawal) dovetails nicely into the anti-Left PSYOP that paints the left as illiberal, even authoritarian, as well as incompetent and selfish.

That 'psyop' is sustained by Lefty leaders that do stupid things that dovetail into the PSYOP. But most importantly, by a media that highlights these foibles and delivers them to a dumbed-down public. Tucker Carlson is famous for sardonic delivery of this toxic distillation. In my view that is no accident. Nor is it an accident that he claims to be persecuted for it (via NSA spying and amorphous threats related to that supposed spying - heh, we are ALL spied on by NSA so Carlson is being "truthful" but in a devious/deceiving way).

After writing my comment @Sep1 2:48 #109, it occurred to me that Biden's claiming credit for ending the war AND for the airlift could well be a deliberate furthering of the anti-Left PSYOP. He's looking at his watch and talking about the death of HIS son at the meeting with the families of slain soldiers also contributes to the PSYOP.

Some will say that these things are REAL and actually reflect the incompetence and selfishness of the Left-leaning leaders. But I think the media is too controlled and that partisanship is contrived to discredit the LEFT much more than the Right. The establishment (and establishment media) favor the Right.

We can see other aspects of the PSYOP in things like VP Harris mistakenly laying a wreath at a monument to those who imprisoned John McCain. The Left is show to be incompetent as well as selfish.

While we see China taking steps to ensure that the State works for the PEOPLE(*), USA take steps to ensure that the Left in USA can never be in a position to put the PEOPLE over capital.

* Ban on private tutoring; videogame limits; crackdown on billionaire tech barons, etc.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2021 14:49 utc | 149

Biden has suddenly gone from "Sleepy Joe" to "authoritarian." That puts the pols (and Col Lang) into a spin regarding Trump-Biden 'throwing in the towel' on Afghanistan. It's better to sustain a war than to end it in defeat. The US global-leader image suffers. Also there's no money in peace despite what Trump and Biden might think.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 1 2021 15:18 utc | 150

If we cannot have it then nobody can! is the attitude of those in high places who now lay siege to that poor country. Deliberate chaos destabilizing the entire region is the de facto policy in place. More deaths, no development, no chance for children to grow up healthy. Stooopid.

Posted by: UnionHorse | Sep 1 2021 15:27 utc | 151

@ 24 vk... thanks... i basically agree with you... not sure though what uae / ksa and the other meddlers are capable of here..

@ Stonebird | Aug 31 2021 19:23 utc | 28... thanks.. i would like to think you are correct... we'll see... change takes time, but sometimes it happens faster then we expect...

@ gordog @ 82 and etc... thanks for your ongoing commentary! ditto many others here.. thank you... was visiting my friend who turned 69 yesterday and not around..

Posted by: james | Sep 1 2021 16:01 utc | 152

#147 dh

Without spare parts, but with human technology [not 2.0]

I assume that some pieces of equipment will be used/sold for retro-engeenering.

Or the next "Hang Them Up", Kaboollywood production.

Posted by: Jibril | Sep 1 2021 16:29 utc | 153

Peter AU1 @132--

I seem to recall predicting that would be very likely. Now they need to acquire Iranian air defenses to go with the governance model.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 1 2021 16:29 utc | 154

james @Sep1 16:01 #152: change takes time

You forgot the /sarc.

This was the phrase that Michele Obama infamously used at the 2012 Democratic National Convention to excuse her husbands betrayal. There was no "Change You Can Believe In."

'Change' seems to take less time when powerful interests are encouraging it. LOL.

<> <> <> <> <>

I think the sentiment that you are going for is actually Lenin's:

"There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen." ― Vladimir Ilyich Lenin


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2021 17:15 utc | 155

PS I put 'change' is single quotes because, when powerful interests are encouraging it, it is better termed "agenda".


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2021 17:17 utc | 156

Also note

In my comment above (@Sep1 14:49 #149), I wrote of the PSYOP furthering the agenda of the US establishment to turn the country away from the Left toward more conservative values.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2021 17:21 utc | 157

A military decision was made during the Trump administration by military leaders who could see they were getting their asses kicked by peasants once again.

but Biden takes the blame for it. that's not an accident. fuck Joe Biden but the White House is not in the tiniest way running one microgram of the logistics of withdrawal.

anyway, people are only surprised at US defeat b/c they believe the lying bs the US spews about its role in the defeat of Japan and Germany during "world war 2". The delusion of US military superiority must be maintained at all costs, thus all the shell games about "who is to blame," in order to deflect blame from the US Pentagon & Intel agencies.

and RT running comments about idiot fuckhead marines blabbing and whining about what they are going to do? that is pure comedy gold. has there ever been a whinier nation in human history than the US?

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Sep 1 2021 17:48 utc | 158

This cannot possibly be true, right?

"DoD had foreknowledge of Kabul bomber and denied permission to fire"

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Sep 1 2021 17:53 utc | 159

Brilliant as usual

Posted by: Mina | Sep 1 2021 18:01 utc | 160

I just read this for the second time, after having looked at reflections on this subject by Pepe too-cute-for-his-own-good Escobar and that blustering wannabe Old Testament prophet Chris Hedges. Moon stands out from the crowd by offering more substance than pretension. Bravo!

Posted by: Roger Milbrandt | Sep 1 2021 18:31 utc | 161


I like to read into future and also study history of the past. An empire in contraction is rarely able to come back again. Maybe so much has been put into motion that to disengage from it all is not possible. The corruption and object rotten nepotism all over USA is the internal disease that is rotting the fish.

You're absolutely right about empire contractions seldom reverses. The underlying reason is plain and common sense: the contraction of the empire has roots much deeper than one can see and correct on the surface as you have alluded to. Any effort at remedying the faults and tribulations that were seen as leading to occasional setbacks is only scratching the surface. The real defects, by the time the empire contracts, is usually deep and massive, unfixable short of a total surgery of the power structure and the system of governance, prices that empires are not willing to pay.

This Yankeestan Empire is rotting at the core. Any corrective actions taken to cure a hicup here and there merely cover a blister. To cure the cancer Yankeestan needs to fire all university/school presidents, corporate ceos, church ministers, and of course all government employees above the ranks of supervisors. The cancer's spread is precisely because of these people at positions of calling shots. 99% of these people don't even know they are actually the problem, the way they think, react to events, and inclinations of formulating solutions to the problems seen, kind of helping the cancer growth without knowing so. Most of them are actually just like us ordinary folks, decent people meaning well but not wise enough to see the whole picture.

But then again, if drastic actions like what I just suggested is taken, the risk of the empire's immediate collapse is more likely than attaining a cure; that is, the medicine may be worse than the disease. Hence, we'll likely see the empire sumble along from year to year and waste away until someday someone else wack it squarely on the head to whip it into its right place. The Thucydides Trap.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Sep 1 2021 18:31 utc | 162

Silly bunny, what passes for the "left" in the US absolutely IS incompetent and selfish. Their chief distinction from what passes for the "right" in the US is their embrace of platitudes, obfuscated politically correct speech, and virtue signalling to build the delusion/illusion that they are sophisticated, compassionate, non-narcissists. There is no need for the Mockingbird mass media to employ clever subtlety to paint the "left" as clueless, self-absorbed navel-gazers because they really are clueless, self-absorbed navel-gazers.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 1 2021 18:45 utc | 163


I see Iran as just put out a long range targeting radar that sees stealth aircraft. Russia put one out mot long back The Russian uses one meter wave band. I believe the expensive coating US put on its stealth aircraft is designed to absorb much shorter radio waves. Perhaps a bit of technology exchange with Iran's coming out so soon after Russia.

Iran does seem a likely place for Afghanistan to get some good air defense systems.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 1 2021 19:03 utc | 164

William Gruff @Sep1 18:45 163: ... they really are clueless, self-absorbed navel-gazers

That may be true to some extent. But it's the examples that are driven home that is instructive. The frustration of BLM's "Defund the Police!" is mocked and turned into an anthem for why we need to cherish the police. Antifa is used to discredit BLM. 'Open Borders' idiocy is taken as a serious policy initiative from the Left. And on and on.

Consider the billionair political candidates. They are a clearly meant as a demonstration of the nobility of our capitalist system. HOW DARE the Left try to take that away!

This is how we are manipulated by the PSYOP. They will not tell us what to think, they will SHOW US (repeatedly) the horrors of the Left and the nobility of the right that promises a brighter future if we would ALL embrace it.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2021 19:31 utc | 165

Silly bunny wants us to believe that casting the BLM/antifa rampages as "Fiery But Mostly Peaceful Protests" is clever reverse psychology to get Americans to recognize the horror of mob violence? Forcing the meme that entirely non-fiery and non-violent protests are "Riots!" and "Insurrection!" is the mass media's reverse psychology approach to getting the population to view the "right" as noble? Secretly force-feeding faux-left "Critical Race Theory" to America's youth in schools is really an effort spark outrage and discredit the "left"?

I believe that "theory" needs a little more work.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 1 2021 21:53 utc | 166

Mina #160

Brilliant as usual

Thank you, and yes indiapunchline informs us of the nuance and relationships yet again.

So I guess all the posturing about the Taliban funds in USA bank vaults will be just empty blather and propaganda fodder for all concerned except that it will feed the hate USA rsoles meme. My guess is there will be a serious Afghanistan development effort mobilised in the coming year regardless of the yankeestan banksters stealing their national loot.

The Taliban forces are mustering for one mighty assault against the fakers and FUKUSA stooges holed up in the Panjshir valley as we speak. We will see what deals are done there.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 1 2021 22:54 utc | 167

@167 - was that article taken down?

Posted by: schmoe | Sep 1 2021 23:53 utc | 168

@168 schmoe

Bad link. Take the end Blockquote off, or go back to the original at 16

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 2 2021 0:10 utc | 169

No I stuffed the url by adding a blockquote at end :/

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 2 2021 0:13 utc | 170

ZOKA on twitter informs Qatar security at Kabul airport here:

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 2 2021 0:37 utc | 171

So what is the role of Qatar in all this? I ask because the US Air Force is mighty cozy with Qatar lately. Qatar is buying many F-15s from Boeing. There is now a proposal to bed down a unit of Qatari War Planes at Mountain Home AFB in Idaho - and have those War Planes join in the US and Singapore units (already bedded down) in inflicting Sonic Hell on wild lands and wildlife across portions of a tri-state region --- SW ID, SE OR, N NV airspace.
Once bedded down, the Qatari planes will routinely using the Mountain Home Air Force Base vast "training" range and sonic boom and conduct low level overflights and use the ground Bombing Ranges ranges in ID too.

From what I've read, some Taliban leaders had long been in Qatar. If both the Taliban and Qatar are close, and the US and Qatar are cozy - what does this mean?

Posted by: castilleja | Sep 2 2021 0:55 utc | 172

castilleja #172

To get some material to assess this relationship, I searched with the term 'qatar and iran politics' which resulted in a smorgasboard of reading. You will have to decide for yourself but to me it looks like hedged bets, balancing relations between the Gulf bullies and realpolitic of the world while going along with the entreaties and designs of Trump and Biden zionist dreamers.

As for Kabul airport and the families of the Taliban leadership, I guess there is today's pragmatism and the time needed to establish Afghanistan self security and determination. Yes, that is a limited term but we observe a transition not a switch.

Here is what sieved into the pan (some of it I wouldn't touch):

yes they are conservative.... good luck.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 2 2021 1:43 utc | 173

Every die-hard capitalist will view the Chinese People-oriented policies as authoritarian and essentially communist. In their view, we are back to the capitalist vs. communist Cold War.

However, not only is China not strictly communist, USA/West is not strictly capitalist. Capitalism, true capitalism, would be a welcome change. What we have instead is neoliberalism aka "crony capitalism" or fascism.

And neoliberalism has flourished because it dovetails so well with other forms of supremacist thinking. They reinforce each other.

After decades of sidelining critics and finessing outcomes to line their own pockets, the power-elite will not easily change their #winning ways. They will just apply more propaganda. And that's what we see with the hyper-partisanship and anti-China, anti-Russia messaging. Beyond that, they give what they are forced to give (like Afghanistan) and continue to play us for fools. Because they have found that the sheeple can be so easily manipulated and misled.

A good part of that manipulation is misdirection. For example, the central question isn't really capitalism vs. socialism, but democracy vs oligarchy. The key question of government's role can not be addressed by a higher minimum wage or a new tax credit (as noted by other moa commentators):

does capital regulate government or does government regulate capital.

The Left accepted Obama's betrayal of "Change You Can Believe In" and Sanders "Revolution" was nothing more than a group of complainers being led by a pied-piper. Bernie didn't try to really contend for power and his supporters never demanded that he do so.

The Left discredits itself when it makes politics only about getting MORE financially. There was a time when the Left was made up of courageous moral leaders. Today, it is led by professional politicians that beg for crumbs from the table of power to prove themselves to a public that doesn't want to be inconvenienced. The Hillary/Obama-type establishment progressive and Bernie socialist fanboys don't care that no banker went to jail for the Global Financial Crisis, they don't care that US wasted trillions of dollars in Afghanistan, they don't care that MIC fleeces the country. They only care about those crumbs that might fall when the OVERTON window widens by a notch: a small increase in the minimum wage PLEASE! more immigrant wage slaves PLEASE! (their cheap labor keeps prices down) etc.

And, while the Left lacks heart, the right lacks brains. They seem ever-ready to be 'triggered' by any slight. Road rage patriots that can't read a map.

The US Left and Right. Leading the charge to nowhere. While the power-elite laugh all the way to the bank.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 2 2021 1:46 utc | 174

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 2 2021 1:43 utc | 173

I searched with the term 'qatar and iran politics' which resulted in a smorgasboard of reading.

I have a page on the Saudi-Qatar clash of 2017:


1 Qatari support of terrorists
1.1 Support for Libyan rebels
1.2 Support for Syrian rebels
1.3 Support for the Muslim Brotherhood
1.4 Alleged support for Hezbollah
1.5 Anti-Qatar campaign
2 Relations with Saudi Arabia
3 Relations with Iran
3.1 Before crisis
3.2 Post crisis
4 Alleged hacking incident
5 Breakup of diplomatic ties with GCC
6 U.S. role?
7 Embargo and blockade
8 Military action?
9 Analysis
10 Qatar fights back!
11 Did Kushner extort Qatar?
12 Impact

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 2 2021 2:18 utc | 175


Thank you Petri Krohn. My basic view is Qatar are pragmatic and crushed by the elephants in the Gulf states. Perhaps they are more trustworthy than Turkey under Erdoghan. They are likely severely pressured by the FUKUSA extortionists and just humor who they must and develop trading partnerships with all comers to avoid fatal embargoes.

Norodom Sihanouk had similar environmental constraints and the FUKUSA destroyed him and his country and millions of his citizens. They will stop at nothing and I am sure the Qataris understand that.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 2 2021 2:44 utc | 176


Thank you for that page of depressing information about Qatar. Some homo sapiens are truly unpleasant people but when you get a pile of tiny nations ruled over by trash such as these then I guess you gain respect for the guillotine. To think that the europeans are reviving their early historical follies through their machinations in the arab world is enough to drive a bloke to drink. I trust their stay in Kabul will be brief.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 2 2021 3:16 utc | 177

Petri Kohn and Uncle Tungsten: Thank you for all the links. Complexity on top of complexity. Note that Idaho Senator Jim Risch had been head of the Foreign Affairs committee in the Republican-controlled Senate, and is now the Ranking Member in the (minimally) Democratic Senate. I know little about international affairs, but have closely followed the ever-expanding military "training" activity in the western US on public lands. Having a military base in an area is huge federal subsidy boon to a state, and two bit Idaho's politicians have long gone to great lengths for the Mountain Home base - always seeking to expand noxious overflight and other activities . So now Qatar buys US made War Planes as well as spends large sums in new buildings, paving runways, etc. at Mountain Home and I assume pays to use the Mountain Home base overall. Is this to curry favor with Risch in part? Will they act as US mercenaries? Who is using who? Both parties playing both sides?

Posted by: castilleja | Sep 2 2021 3:34 utc | 178

uncle tungsten

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 2 2021 4:16 utc | 179

castilleja #178

As I recall there is a US military base in every state even if not strictly necessary for defense they are essential for defense of the military budget and House Appropriations decisions. Is there a senator or congresscritter that would advocate reduction in military expenditure when all those jobs are dependent in their state :))

On Qatar I have been scanning their trade relations with China and other relativities. There is a fairly tight relationship there and it may be sufficient for Qatar to refrain from doing an Idlib maneuver against China. Considering the relationship between the 'new' Taliban and Russia and China, I suspect there will be sufficient checks and balances to restrain the Qataris from excess treachery.

These emerged in the search:

some global trade comparisons:

It is likely the Taliban will substitute foreign dependencies for local as time rolls on. But keeping a close eye on the Qataris and utterly destroying ISUK and the pretend resistance would be an essential achievement in the first 100 days I would suggest.

The FUKUSAi will incessantly connive, wrangle, bribe and epstein all those willing Qatar airmen at their training airbases in the USA. So there is always a coup potential in the making or a rogue operation to be held.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 2 2021 6:06 utc | 180

Oriental Voice:

The real defects, by the time the empire contracts, is usually deep and massive, unfixable short of a total surgery of the power structure and the system of governance, prices that empires are not willing to pay.

This Yankeestan Empire is rotting at the core. Any corrective actions taken to cure a hicup here and there merely cover a blister. To cure the cancer Yankeestan needs to fire all university/school presidents, corporate ceos, church ministers, and of course all government employees above the ranks of supervisors.

WOW, this seems like amputating someones lower extremities up and including both hips along with removing the arms and shoulder girdle.

I think the empire will rather try to survive this gangrene by some miracle than going this route, even if the outcome is even worse.

Posted by: Harald | Sep 2 2021 9:55 utc | 181

Sorry I have no time to search on your page, but did you include a link to the Qatari minister spilling the beans on a TV program (channel was al Haqiqa) about the war against Syria and their participation in it?

Posted by: Mina | Sep 2 2021 11:33 utc | 182

Seems like this recently reported news should be noted as part of moa Afghanistan discussions.

Biden Pressured Afghan President To "Create Perception" Taliban Wasn't Winning "Whether It Is True Or Not"

We should not be surprised that once USA decided to "end the war" (or take the "war" in a different direction), the main concern of the power-elite Empire managers was perception management.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 2 2021 14:03 utc | 183

oh we know! shipping 'moderate' headchoppers from Syria to Afghanistan is well under way and sending arms and money to the Northern Alliance is a no brainer. sadly for the US Mashoods son is no lion and if the Tallies have their heads screwed on they will finish off those in the Panshir Valley tout suite! Theyre surrounded at the moment anyway so no problem but that will not remain the case for ever.

Posted by: Romeo | Sep 2 2021 15:07 utc | 184

uncle tungsten

I typed up a few thoughts on Qatar and Erdogan but it hasn't appeared. Russia's relationship with Erdogan and Qatar? Both played a part in the creation of the various Sunni terrorist groups though I think Saudi Arabia was was the main asset US used in the creation of its proxy armies.
In Idlib, Erdogan has taken the headchoppers under state control. Not the best situation but Russia can exert a certain amount of control over Erdogan.
With the terrorists the fighters can be killed of but mum will still bring the little ones up to be just like daddy so they have to be killed off too. So its either that or a long term winding down of the ideology itself.
Winding down the ideology I think is where Turkey and Qatar come in. They are strategic players and I think they see which way the Russian and Chinese wind is blowing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 2 2021 15:29 utc | 185

@ Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2021 17:15 utc | 155.. thanks.. yes! i am sorry i missed your comment earlier... cheers..

Posted by: james | Sep 2 2021 19:55 utc | 186

ISIS-K is run by Pakistan not the CIA.

Escobar is not reliable.

And the Taliban are not the good guys.

Posted by: Mike K. | Sep 3 2021 3:34 utc | 187

"And the Taliban are not the good guys.

Posted by: Mike K. | Sep 3 2021 3:34 utc | 187"

So what? The Afghan people have seen the results of the "good guys" and they found out just how evil the "good guys" are.

Posted by: arby | Sep 3 2021 12:41 utc | 188

Posted by: arby | Sep 3 2021 12:41 utc | 188

Yes, we've all had more than enough of those "good guys". Give me some honest terrists instead. At least they do not expect gratitude for bombing and torturing you.

There are no f**king good guys. This is not a movie.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 3 2021 12:47 utc | 189

Sushi | Aug 31 2021 19:47 utc | 40

The US has still not delivered any proof of OBL involvement in 9/11 attacks since the invasion. What evidence is available incriminates Saudi Arabia and / or suggests Israeli involvement.

The evidence overwhelmingly points to the USG itself as the prime instigator of the events of 9/11. True, it seems they had help from Israel and KSA, but the sine qua non has to be the USG itself.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Sep 7 2021 16:14 utc | 190

The strange (страииы человек) case of the vaccene perpetraitors and the facts that they deny: It seems that those inoculated with West European and North American jabs are also carriers and spreaders of this ailment and assorted complications! So why become a super-sreader litterbug in our clean (reine) environments of vaccine sceptics and refusnics?

Posted by: Tollef Ås/秋涛乐/טלפ וש | Sep 7 2021 16:38 utc | 191

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