Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 20, 2021

Britain Wants A Rerun Of The War On Afghanistan

Immediately after the Taliban victory an enormous dis-information campaign was launched to again badmouth them.

There are now suddenly all kinds of allegations that the Taliban are doing this or that bad. These are mostly based on hearsay and no or very little evidence is presented. Don't believe them without direct confirmation from original sources.

The launch of Amrullah Saleh and Ahmed Massoud as leaders of a new resistance against the Taliban must have been long prepared. One does not get op-ed space in the Washington Post and several big European papers just some three days after Kabul falls without some lead time and without serious 'western' backing.

While Saleh is an old CIA spy Ahmed Massoud has been prepared by the Brits:

After finishing his secondary school education in Iran, Massoud spent a year on a military course at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst.In 2012, he commenced an undergraduate degree in War Studies at King's College London where he obtained his bachelor's degree in 2015. He obtained his master's degree in International Politics from City, University of London in 2016.

The type of disinformation campaign combined with the well prepared launch of the 'resistance campaign', allegedly with SAS trained Afghan soldiers, and the regional op-ed placements let me conclude that he is run by the Brits. They are quite excellent in their 'strategic communication' disinformation business.

The conservatives speaking in their special parliament session were also the most angry about the outcome of their imperial war on Afghanistan and about their own inability to stop its end while claiming to be a 'Global Britain'.

As Richard Murphey remarks on Withering Britain:

This then is a massive moment for the role of the US in the world. It does not create a vacuum, but the risk that one might follow – which China will all too willingly seek to fill – seems very real at present.

And where does Britain fit into this? In a sense it does not. The US did not consults us, and is still not apparently telling us what it is doing in Kabul. We were not a player. There was no special, relationship. Our opinion was not worth having. It did not matter to the US. The pretence is over.

With that the vestige of British power, built on the coat-tails of the 1940s and the mutually advantageous myths formed since then, has gone. We are now just a rather remote, small, and fairly insignificant state who is just one amongst many. The delusion that we are otherwise has to go.

But will the delusion disappear? Will we, with its demise, stop building aircraft carriers that were strategically useless decades before they were designed? Will we stop thinking ourselves exceptional? And will an England thwarted become ever more aggressive towards its last vestiges of empire – those states it subjects to its rule within the supposed United Kingdom, which increasingly feels anything but that?

These are big questions. Only time can provide the answers. But I have a feeling that everything has changed. The image of British power has withered away. If all involved now deal with the reality for the these islands and their future that might be for the better. If at the same time we stop hectoring and abusing the world and actually learn to live with and work alongside it, so much the better too. But will we do that? That’s anyone’s guess. The wise will hope that we do.

That hope is, see above, in vain.

Stories about alleged Taliban acts 'against Afghan women' will now again get special features. Women have been used to sell the long war on Afghanistan since its very beginning. But how many women were actually killed by Soviet, British and U.S. bombs during the war?

On the abuse of feminism to promote the never ending war on Afghanistan, the badmouthing of the Taliban please read the excellent piece Afghanistan: The End of the Occupation which was co-written by a female anthropologist who has done field work there.

Posted by b on August 20, 2021 at 15:40 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page | next page »

Posted by: ptb | Aug 21 2021 1:06 utc | 90

Re tinkzorg.wordpress.com: thanks for that link, very sharp thinking and good writing too. That's where we are, a crisis of legitimacy. A long time coming.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 21 2021 2:04 utc | 101

@ Patroklos | Aug 20 2021 22:37 utc | 73.. indeed.. i think many see the circle route of money into mic contractors and etc and how it works... on some level it seems like it would be worse if it was a quick war that was over fast.. instead they need to drag it out for as long as possible.. thus afganistan - 20 years later, iraq 18 years later and etc. etc. and i am sure these kleptomaniacs hope it all continues like a constant gravy train regardless of the wishes of the people, not to mention all the innocent death that is a consequence.... it is really quite sickening to look at it all in action.. one could develop a bad attitude about people in general, thinking they are all predators.. but i don't believe that myself..

@ gordog.. thanks for your posts... i relate to most all of what you say and appreciate you saying it!

@ 100 bemildred.. thanks for pointing out the link ptb shared.. looks interesting and will read that now..

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2021 2:21 utc | 102

Thank you b.

The sooner the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan annihilate the Massoud/Saleh gang, the better. I posted my point of view in an earlier thread. This gang of pretenders were preconceived and the ploy was nipped when the Taliban leap frogged into Kabul. This left them isolated in a convenient deep valley. Others here would dismiss these rsoles as insignificant but I would never buy that.

The Saleh/Massoud gangsters are here to be a splinter in the flesh of Afghanistan for another decade. Next week the USA will recognise them as the 'legitimate' government and make the Afghanistan treasury in Wall Street available to them. They are traitors, opportunist thieves in the pay of the UKUSA, spoilers and saboteurs.

The new IEA government should not leave them to breathe the mountain air for more than a week. A day is too long.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 21 2021 2:23 utc | 103

uncle tungsten 102

I suspect the anglospheres fate was sealed with the meeting of Russia and China FMs after the alaska meet. The puppets in Afghanistan will go the way of navlany and other yank democracy heroes.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 21 2021 2:39 utc | 104

James, thanks!

Btw, thanks for posting that vid of your jazz quartet. Enjoyed that! 👍

Posted by: Gordog | Aug 21 2021 2:45 utc | 105

I watched PBS Newshour today (Aug.20) - the interview with Sarah Chayes was quite extraordinary for the US media. She blamed the US civilian leadership over past decades for the tragedy in Afghanistan. The fact that this was allowed to be aired makes me speculate that the people who give permits are themselves desperate and want a change here. I am not sure whether to hope or to be cynical.

Posted by: bystander 04 | Aug 21 2021 3:23 utc | 106

@75 Gordog

Thank you for that overview. I'm very happy to get the Bagram evacuation off the table, that was turning into a puzzle for me and I couldn't understand why I'd missed it previously. Now I understand there's no puzzle there. Helps a lot, thanks.

And yes, although I have greatly valued Tom Pfotzer's comments, in regard to the one @76, I think that line of exploration is a dead end - however, we should let it run its course.

This is a good time for me to make a request directly to you, Gordog, and I'll make it in a following comment.

Meanwhile, thanks again - excellent tour d'horizon in your comment.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 21 2021 3:30 utc | 107

@ Gordog

I find your analyses here to be extremely valuable. I think you came originally with subject matter that you already knew about, although obviously we all have to brush up with links and updates when we present a major thesis.

But it seems to me that much of what you're writing now, that is NOT rocket science, is the result of a lot of study you're doing - possibly you happen to know all this geopolitical material but I suspect that you're simply delving into it and sharing, as we all do here, and as we all appreciate.

So I appreciate your parsing of the raw data and the conclusions you present.

~~

That said: your style sometimes is to attack an individual commenter when you think that commenter is wrong, and my request to you now is to make an attempt to constrain this behavior to whatever extent you can.

I have personally made comments responding to people that I didn't have to make, simply in order to identify them as good people, because I was afraid that otherwise you might beat them up, simply because their current view on a subject was wrong.

I would prefer not to be so nervous in these threads.

There are commenters here of long standing who will sometimes present a view on a matter that seems wrong. Other times, on other matters, they may seem completely correct. Politics makes strange bedfellows, and we should take the rough with the smooth.

Some people have very gentle minds - and truth and insight finds no problem to flourish in such minds - but they won't take a beating and stick around. If they don't stick around, we don't get to read them on the next matter that arises, where they may form part of the winning consensus.

We should strive not to drive people away. We should let our compelling analyses rule - analysis, not personas, is all that needs to rule here. People will fall away, naturally and gently, if they don't belong with that.

I guess I've made my point. I hope it finds you well.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 21 2021 3:48 utc | 108

here is the link to transcript of that interview with Sarah Chayes, which I mentioned in my comment 105

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-u-s-ignored-corruption-within-the-afghan-government-did-that-lead-to-its-fall

Posted by: bystander 04 | Aug 21 2021 3:51 utc | 109

@ Gordog #75 The former Soviet 'stans in particular were the real prize of the Afghan adventure all along. That's why the US went in there. To make new Lithuanias and Polands out of them on Russia's doorstep.
Yes, the US decades ago had a "Silk Road" strategy for Central Asia which originated in the Congress and was backed by the administrations right up to Hillary-time as SecState. The US was especially focused on Kazakhstan with major efforts by USAID working with a US Chamber of Commerce to train the locals to, in effect, take US jobs and build the anti-Russia effort up in northern Central Asia. . .The fact that this so-called "road" had nowhere to go, had no way to get to a port, didn't matter to the stupids who backed it.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 21 2021 4:01 utc | 110

Yankistan borg appears split between continuing current empire alongside of attacking China/Russia, and dropping other engagements to attack China and the Russia china strategic partnership.
The US loyalists which Ehret writes about will join GCHQ same as they did to take down Trump. That is the great thing about five-eyes - when domestic laws prohibit a much needed bit of propaganda, a brother can come to the aid of the stricken regime.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 21 2021 4:05 utc | 111

@ Grieved 107

The civility of this site is in fact one of its main attractions. I second your sentiments completely. Ad hominem denunciations are definitely a turn-off. Furthermore, it doesn't matter how correct one's analysis may be the arrogance of its presentation can be off-putting. Collegiality and acknowledging others' perspectives is always welcome.

Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 21 2021 4:06 utc | 112

Peter AU1 #103

The puppets in Afghanistan will go the way of navlany and other yank democracy heroes.

Perhaps but these guys can be active in house saboteurs of any OBOR agreement between Afghanitan and China and Pakistan.

On a scale of importance in the FUKUSAi malice index the OBOR is tops and these proxy tools will do nicely to screw that game. This is potentially a rerun of the saboteur network used against Russia and the socialist government of Afghanistan. The FUKUSAi will never permit a return of Islamic socialism in Afghanistan whatever its tone if they can help it. Don't trust them not to create another of their sh!tty little hong kongs everywhere they go.

Afghanistan is the piece in the jigsaw that enables a sound and formidable overland route from sea to sea to China and the yankistan hordes are desperate to contain the freight transport within the sea lanes. Old money speaks loudest. Whenever roads and rail get established an extraordinary economy is unleashed as products find new markets and enlarged price competition. That is the ideal first future step for enlarging the Afghanistan economy. You can bet the USA alone will do everything possible the Cubanise their hope for the future.

These little fleas holed up with Saleh/Massoud could wreak havoc on road and rail no matter where it is in the country. All the more so when wealth and weapons from USAi are made available. The USA army generals have likely a well formulated plan to drop 'aid' for the poor souls surrounded by these evil Talibs. Berlin redux etc etc. The Balochistan saboteurs do so in their small south west Pakistan enclave and seem to have a steady supply line.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 21 2021 4:20 utc | 113

uncle tungsten 112

Perhaps, but I think we have moved into a new era, led by Russia, an era that can identify and target anglo proxies and eliminate them without the side effects associated with chemotherapy.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 21 2021 5:05 utc | 114

Imagine being an Afghan, 40 years of age. You don't know what life in an unoccupied country is - you've never seen it. And suddenly, the occupation army flees, spent. Institutions that depended upon the occupier, like the Afghan government and army, collapse. Ideologies that sided with the invaders - like feminism - end up tainted and discredited, as the country re-aligns itself.
Now apply the same to Europe, or Japan. In Afghanistan, there are people who knew what life was like before the occupation. In Europe and Japan, none.

Posted by: passerby | Aug 21 2021 5:33 utc | 115

Haassaan | Aug 20 2021 23:35 utc | 80
Wonder under which rock you have been?
Afghanistan is in separable part of Iran, Herat is where Shah Abbas was born, the mythical hero Rostam was born in Kabul,the Real ROSTAHAM, (Rostaham Son of Aresh Gondofar ) was born near modern Peshawar, Tajik is proto Turkic word mean Persian, many nations have different names in different languages, Germans are called Allemagne, by Russians Nemets and Italian Tedeschi etc! If there is to be an illegitimate greater Israel, why not a Greater Iran, a Legitimate Greater Iran. time to act and unite .

Posted by: Grishka | Aug 21 2021 5:38 utc | 116

@113 Peter AU1

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

Much though I love brother tungsten, it pleases me greatly to endorse your view on this thing.

Russia has developed the antidote to the USA. We are seeing tiny traces of it in Afghanistan at present. If we learn to look, we'll see more medical interventions, and perhaps even learn to see the prophylaxis working.

We have been privileged to see a tiny part of the iceberg show above the waterline in Afghanistan, but we cannot deny the satisfaction we have all felt from watching how the course of events has manifested - or should that be hatched? - as the operation has proceeded.

You are completely correct Peter AU1, I think, that Russia, after decades of mirroring and planning, has developed a superiority of action that anticipates and defeats the US before it even gets its pants on in the morning.

This would mean that countless paradigms are now laid to waste.

But since we are in this very moment in the pivoting of the world when the Heartland finally has conquered the whole world, and the Rim has lost the race beyond all retrieval, this would be a great time to lay all those paradigms to rest.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 21 2021 5:46 utc | 117

I'm following events in Panjshir and nearby Bhaglan province, which stand right in front of the Wakhan corridor - the gateway to China:

Indian media (which I don't trust) seems to have the earliest reports of Massoud's 'resistance' movement taking districts in Panjshir and Bhaglan from the Taliban:

Republic news (not sure how much this is propaganda):

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6s-Y3FMBKA
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiGxkpzsO-Y


CGTN (whom I rate far more trustworthy) now reporting the same:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_zl6nzRkFM

Why Baghlan? Take a look at the map! They appear to be trying to break out of being surrounded and at the same time cut the rest of the country off from China.

Bhaglan and Panjshir, both majority Tajik areas ... What kind of fool imagines the Tajiks will want to live under Pashtun Sharia law?

The question now is will the imperial colonial forces of NATO and the US assist?

Some are adamant that Pakistan will not allow overflights.

I say: "bollocks"!

The US has always been able to twist the Pakistani arm. Anyone whose been watching that part of the world for the last 30 years would have noticed this.

They've done it multiple times before and nothing stops them from doing it again. Pakistan has not suddenly developed a spine since Musharaf.

Nothing stops NATO/US or other forces from carrying out long range bombing runs to keep the Taliban occupied in other parts of Afghanistan while Massoud's resistance finds their footing.

Of course, they'll have to wait until the airport in Kabul is cleared but after that it's open season.

Oh look, "Panjshir Resistance" already has a wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Panjshir_resistance&action=history

How are the Taliban going to juggle the pressures of maintaining stability in the territory they control while preventing a division of the country along Tajik/Pashtun lines ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 21 2021 5:49 utc | 118

@117 Arch Bungle

I'll see your "bollocks" and raise you a "wait and see" ;)

We'll know soon enough. A lot of arithmetic is hinging on these small things, but that's good. If your view is correct, then we will learn something about the power of the US that still remains, and the power of the resistance that is less than currently appears, at least to those eyes that believe an Earth-changing moment is occurring.

We'll see how it goes. I confess that I am not rooting for your view to prevail ;) I really don't need any more of the US in the world narrative than is absolutely necessary. And the world feels the same way.

And I think that all the old measures to parse reality in this nation and its region have been replaced by a new set of measures. So we shall see.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 21 2021 6:03 utc | 119

@Eighthman | Aug 20 2021 17:52 utc | 28

Add to this a possible Khmer Rouge sort of scenario in which they murder most everyone who could improve society. They aren't going anywhere, I think.

No, it isn't. And by the way, the Khmer Rouge had the support of the US in the UN.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 21 2021 6:15 utc | 120

Breaking. Taliban lost 3 Northern districts. 24 plus dead.
https://youtu.be/P_zl6nzRkFM

Posted by: David G Horsman | Aug 21 2021 6:19 utc | 121

Panjshir Resistance

The agency has listed them on Wikipedia ;))

I did a search via Lazywebb on the term "Panjshir Resistance" and they are well reported.

From spectator.org

Saleh has taken up residence in Panjshir Valley, the region of his birth.

Saleh is joined in his resistance by Ahmad Massoud, the son of the Anti-Soviet mujaheddin leader, Ahmad Shah Massoud, who penned a stirring Op-Ed in the Washington Post vowing to resist the Taliban. Like his father before him, Massoud vows to resist his enemies from the Panjshir Valley. The brave Afghan men who are willing to fight the Taliban, rather than fleeing, are converging on Panjshir Valley to join the resistance.

The Anti-Soviet resistance emanating from Panjshir was able to succeed against Soviet occupation, will similar resistance succeed against the Taliban? It’s certainly possible. The Northern Alliance resisted Taliban rule in the 1990s in Northern Afghanistan. The Taliban never fully controlled Afghanistan, and the Panjshir Valley was one of the locations that did not fall.

It is worth noting that both resistance leaders, Massoud and Saleh, are ethnic Tajiks. Tajiks are a Dari Persian speaking ethnic group, the second-largest in Afghanistan. Panjshir Valley, known as the “five lions” in Persian, is majority ethnic Tajik.

The Taliban by contrast is a Pashtun organization. Pashtuns, or just “Afghans” are the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan. The Pashtuns speak an Eastern Iranian language that long ago split from proto-Persian. While there are certainly religious differences between Tajiks and Pashtuns, both are Sunni, so the coming conflict will be primarily ethnic rather than religious.

Ok so I guess the USUKi empire will lie down like a whipped dog and howl...

Not if Gen. Milley has his way I would wager.

So see you all at the big bar and place your bets. I'll shout the tequila for the first round.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 21 2021 6:29 utc | 122

uncle tungsten 121

4X would be best but so long as it isn't bundy, tequilla will suffice.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 21 2021 6:41 utc | 123

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 21 2021 6:03 utc | 118


I'll see your "bollocks" and raise you a "wait and see" ;)
We'll know soon enough.

Indeed, only time can tell. Give it a week, the picture should be less muddy by then.


A lot of arithmetic is hinging on these small things, but that's good.

The Arithmetic is also beyond me but the variables are clear at least:

- Sunni Taliban vs. Shia/Sunni split Tajiks ... can there be any power sharing agreement while Sunni and Shia have fundamentally conflicting ideologies ... in Afghanistan, everything is ideology.
- Pashtun/Pathan/Pakhtun tribes against Tajiks,Uzbeks and Hazaras
- Pakistani ISI ... how do they want the Afghan cake sliced? How much power do they want in whose hands?
- ISIS as an unknown wildcard. Do the Americans hold their strings? Even if they don't the Taliban will have to allocate precious resources to managing the ISIS problem ... while also dealing with the "speck" of a resistance in the Panjshir valley (and other Tajik controlled areas).
- Tajikistan ... will they back the Afghan Tajiks or will they back a majority Pashtun government against their own cultural group? Or will they remain neutral to the detriment of one or the other side.
- The Gulf States under Saudi Arabia ... what are their interests, whose strings are their pulling?
- Iran. A Majority Shia country forced to come to grips with a Sunni power structure next door - they have no incentive to support the Taliban and some incentive to assist Shia groups ... or at least not impede them.


I confess that I am not rooting for your view to prevail ;)

Neither am I.

However we've seen this picture unfold many times before.

This little "speck" of a resistance can grow like cancer.

History never repeats but the rhythm is always the same.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 21 2021 6:43 utc | 124

Arch Bungle 123

Factor in Sunni Taliban vs. Shia as a variable. Sunni Taliban have had a number of meets with Shia Iran.
Divide and conquer is losing its power in the muslim world.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 21 2021 6:50 utc | 125

If the West had enemies, as it claims it has to paralyze voters and justify its insane policies to its taxpayers, it would be really easy to attack it now, as we see it needs to mobilize all its resources (the ones that are not in their August holidays, that's it) to airlift just a few thousands of people.
But maybe it does not need enemies anymore. When you reach an abyss where supposedly intelligent people can consider that the mere fact of being a woman is akin to (an undefined) 'feminism' (see in this thread "Institutions that depended upon the occupier, like the Afghan government and army, collapse. Ideologies that sided with the invaders - like feminism - end up tainted and discredited, as the country re-aligns itself.")
It will certainly be better when they get 10 children each.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 21 2021 7:09 utc | 126

@ 102 uncle tungsten | Aug 21 2021 2:23 utc

"Next week the USA will recognise them as the 'legitimate' government and make the Afghanistan treasury in Wall Street available to them."

One wonders at the risk of the rump of the 'civilian' foreigners being held hostage as 'guests' in Kabul camps until the $9billion is returned in hard gold currency?

Perhaps the Chinese and Russians have suggested looking forward to brighter futures without the weight of the past being delivered in ingots for short term gain.

Imo, much deeper than all the 'post empire' angst, and foaming on demented little UK parliamentary lips, is the core realisation now dawning at the top that the time of "Limits to Growth" has just arrived in an avalanche of ungoverned rush.

Posted by: imo | Aug 21 2021 7:09 utc | 127

Canadian Cents @36:

I had read Ritter, and I found the piece interesting. However, his aim is always to make things work better. When it comes to US et al military, I'm happier when things don't work. ;-)

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 21 2021 7:41 utc | 128

imo #126

The deep state couldn't give a toss for hostages. If that comes to pass they will simply use that to destroy Biden, mount an army for the rescue and corall the entire terrified us citizens once again. No pink pussy hats but lots of yellow ribbons... again!

The reality may well be that the whipped dogs will use this unsettled period of the IEA formation to try to flush Russia or China into the open and use that as their next mass psychosis lever.

I suspect the IEA liberation forces heard of this caper and may well have a strategy in place.

Time will tell.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 21 2021 7:42 utc | 129

UN is with you, Guterres tells Afghans

Afghan people responses

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 21 2021 7:55 utc | 130

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 21 2021 7:55 utc | 129


UN is with you, Guterres tells Afghans

As they were at Srebrenica ...


Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 21 2021 8:06 utc | 131

Barflies continue to come up with theories about outside 'help' in making the Taliban victorious. Two days a go it was Russia who did it, today it's Iran...
Truth is these people have been fighting a guerrilla war for 40 years. They already won once. If you want to learn how to become a successful guerrilla leader -- they are the go-to-guys.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 21 2021 8:26 utc | 132

RE: Posted by: gottlieb | Aug 20 2021 16:09 utc | 4

" (And of course, the resistance to the Taliban is planned.)"

Some present social relations are based on strict divisions of labour in competitive environments both externally and internally, and hence "professionalism" is deemed to give competitive advantage - aided by we-the-people-hold-these-truths-to-be-self-evidentness, so what could be deemed "standards, practices and methods" to attain "professionalism" are "hidden" from "non-professionals" whilst being attempted to be hidden from other "professionals" - which is one of the "unsaid" reasons for Mr. Assange being prosecuted for outlining that the "drone programme" of "The United States of America" was dependent on "targets of opportunity" as a consequence of limited access to local assets to facilitate "tagets by design", requiring them to emulate a type of "carpet bombing" thereby reducing opportunities of gaining hearts and minds, leading to notions of some that "If you grab them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow".

One way to facilitate "hidden" from "non-professionals" is through using jargon - empty vessels which others fill with their assumptions/beliefs/expectations - whilst simultaneously other "professionals" do not always criticise this resort to jargon since they understand that this gives them competitive advantages by aiding "non-professionals" filling empty vessels with their assumptions/beliefs/expectations.

Included in such jargons are "planning","tactics",and "strategy" the "professionalism" in which cannot be "evaluated" by "non-professionals", who remain subject to surprises including "suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune".

This facilitates the continuation of some self-designated "professionals" in their endeavours to represent beliefs as strategies, hopes as tactics, and planning/implementation as attempts at testing beliefs and hopes including their iterations, which some perceive as "permanent war" whilst others perceive permanent opportunities.

Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 21 2021 8:29 utc | 133

bystander 04 @105:

I’m not surprised that Sarah Chayes is aired, it’s an (admittedly haphazard) attempt at damage control:

First, she spends time being very upset that the civilian administration didn’t deal with corruption, and that corruption is a problem, obscuring the fact that buying was the point of the whole operation – corruption is how a colonial system works.
Then she moves on to paki-bashing. Iran, Russia, Pakistan – anyone as long as we don’t have to face with the fact that meagerly armed poor Afghans beat the mightiest military machine ever created in the battlefields, right?

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 21 2021 8:58 utc | 134

Lowekey on Double down news make brutally honest take on Afghanistan and war on terror.

https://youtu.be/WIDchC_70s0

Posted by: Lucci | Aug 21 2021 9:08 utc | 135

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and the Taliban

Why was it so spectacularly successful? Well in the report b liked to there are many stand out statements. This one is indicative of many things:

"Afghans had long been used to corruption. They both expected it and hated it. But this time the scale was unprecedented. And in the eyes of the poor and middle income people, all the obscene new wealth, no matter how garnered, seemed to be corruption.

Over the last decade the Taliban have offered two things across the country. The first is that they are not corrupt, as they were also not corrupt in office before 2001. They are the only political force in the country this has ever been true of."

So will the ethnic Tajiks of the Panjshir valley back Massoud and Saleh on an open ended war promise or will they opt to follow other Tajik klansmen elsewhere who have aligned with the coalition under the Islamc Emirate of Afghanistan previously Taliban. I suspect the coalition is somewhat precarious and glued together mainly by the passion for self determination and peace and so there will be immense reluctance in many hearts to pick up weapons and continue the past gruelling path of war.

The next few weeks will be fascinating and imo it will be imperative that Tajikistan restore all those fighter planes and choppers to the new IEA government of Afghanistan and not the Tajik pretenders lurking in their new dien bien phu valley fortress with a team of 'newly recruited airforce mercenaries'. If there is any doubt on that transaction a well timed mishap should be anticipated.

In addition there seems to be some attenuation of the Sunni chauvinism vs the Shia. I trust that can build into a robust rapprochement as religious factional idiocy enslaves people more than any colonial occupier.

Give peace a chance for once I say.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 21 2021 9:39 utc | 136

@136 Pat Lang has just posted his four-point plan for what the USA can do next.

Point 4 is to "Begin a covert action run from the Stans to support the Tajik rebellion in the Panjshir Valley and throughout the non-Pashtun parts of the country."

Or, in other words, let's stir up trouble for the sake of stirring up trouble.

There is no way the Taliban is going to be overthrown by "rebels" who are on the US payroll.

None.

We have just had the most convincing and dramatic proof of the viability of an "Afghan" organization that is oh-so-obviously on the US payroll.

As in: it's doomed.

Yet as far as Lang is concerned the USA should just keep doing it, because it can.

I'm sure it'll end well.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 21 2021 10:06 utc | 137

Posted by: Rêver | Aug 21 2021 9:36 utc | 137

Link to Fred Reed's post Rever is referring to

https://www.unz.com/freed/despair-in-the-empire-of-graveyards/

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 21 2021 10:53 utc | 138


With regards to Air defense weapons, it is easy to see Taliban being able to smuggle such weapons from Syria/Irak igjennom Iran og til Kabul. This is probably already happening. Otherwise, it any large-scale US air assault via paradropping or force-landing on airfields should give a good warning ahead. Staging such things is impossible to keep secret and even if done from USA itself via another base, it would at least give half a day of preparations. Taliban is spread all-over the country and it is easy to take out paratroopers if one is anticipating such (like Arnhem).

Something tells me Taliban is not done tightening the screws upn the occupants and their fleeing collaborators on Kabul airport. USA is becoming desperate every day and resorts to threats and alternate begging.

Only 9 days until August is over

tick tick tick.., it is a beautiful thing to watch the empire collapse indeed ;)

Posted by: Harald | Aug 21 2021 11:00 utc | 139

Something for the Irony folder. The House of Lords want to continue the fight to rid Afghanistan of the Taliban and bring Democracy to that tortured land. That House of Lords, full of appointed for life or hededitary peers, where most hereditary peerages can be inherited only by men. That folks is the cherry on top. The misogynist House of Lords, rooting for the something must be done for the women crowd. Talk about chutzpah.

And Jesus wept.

After the British Expeditionary Force warches into Kabul they can continue on their merry way into the Great Game and occupy Lahsa, a redux of the British Invasion of Tibet, led by Major Francis Younghusband. I think they will run into a slightly stiffer opposition than they did in 1903-1904, that being a medievil army with bows, swords and flint lock rifles and a belief of supernatural powers to protect them from the bullets.

The arrogance hasn't changed with the passing of 117 years. But what a way to go, their army is put to rest in Tibet and their navy turned into fish habitat somewhere between the province of Taiwan and mainland China. BOJO might not be the only one to loose "his head" in this game. Do they play polo in Tibet?

Posted by: Tom | Aug 21 2021 11:04 utc | 140

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 20 2021 16:57 utc | 16

Vk @11: why does it matter? Being anti-war because you think you will lose is mighty hard to beat with pro war propaganda. And the outcome is the same: won't sell war no more.

I don't see it that way at all.

On one hand you have a genuine, empathic, appreciation of one's own responsibility in causing wide-scale destruction and misery.

On the other hand, you have an audience's distaste for vexing scenarios. Oh no, this ending makes me look fat. Please show me something more palatable.

In other words, the Empire has our full blessing to pursue its strategy of continent-wide sabotage so long as the marketing is right.

Posted by: robin | Aug 21 2021 11:05 utc | 141

RE : Posted by: Rêver | Aug 21 2021 9:36 utc | 137

“ You can’t tell the Marines that they are mediocre light infantry or sailors that their aircraft are rapidly obsolescing, their ships sitting ducks in a changing military world, and that the whole military enterprise is rotted by social engineering, profiteering, and careerism ...”

Well some can not only tell but illustrate which encourages "can do" intransigence, unless there are other options of self-intransigence, including but not limited to sitting down and eating worms.

“Another reason is that the American style of war recruits its enemies. “

Your notion is too restricted including in respect of lateral interactions, possibly as a function of “division of labour”.

The self-designated “The United States of America” are coercive social relations not limited to “political geographic areas” with “Canada” lying to the North – with an order of Alaska and Hawaii on the side – with Mexico lying to the South, whilst some believe that it is to the “East” and sometimes to the “West” - well maybe “backyard” is more relevant, although “backyard” does infer some kind of “property right”, at least to some which can be lost, leading some previously deemed “lost” to remember:

“These silly kittens
They've lost their mittens and don't know where to find them
Leave them alone
And they'll come home
Dragging their tails behind them”.

You can understand Mr. Bush's emotional resort to the emotional response that “They hate our freedom”
without specifying who “they” are or what “our freedom” is, in part due to the lack of “professionalism” on the part of Mr. Bush and his “advisors” - a tradition determinedly followed accompanied by tuneful mantra to keep up morale and hopefully levels of concentration.

Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 21 2021 11:16 utc | 142


We Brits have lost wars before and after the Falklands pantomime. Heck we finally did surrender to the IRA in a civil war on our own shores!

The Taliban are just joining the list of successful uprisings through history - including the American War for Independence!

In the meantime enjoy the squirming of the fascist Aristos of England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland who are not the peoples of these places. As they enter the last stages of their Dominate. *

( others include French Revolution, Bolivar in SA, Cuba, various South East Asian nations , Africa etc.
Us Anglo Imperialists should be patting ourselves on the back for instigating yet another successful revolution for the people by the people. Attaboys! )

Opium production which crashed under the previous Taliban in 1999/2000, immediately returned to its preinvasion heights, and record harvests after the invasion. THAT IS A FACT.

The puppets put in charge were the major drug barons. If they think they will carry on running farmers who are told to grow and harvest poppies protected by the western military and mercenaries, they are deluded.

I expect plenty of actual food and cash crops to be grown by these farmers who will finally stop before g mere slaves of the squires - the system of English Aristocracy for a millennia. Hell we fly in asparagus from chi lie all year round - why not Afghanistan.

The Drug Barons air support.
Obama launched and killed more than any President at the time of such aerial attacks, with assassins sitting at their desks thousands of miles away - going home to their families and homes daily while killing families and kids in Afghanistan - the bunch of bloodthirsty ghoulish mundane minions - again FACT. Proved by recently jailed whistleblower proved. (Along with wikileaks for years)

So - No, the drug Barons, their network that stretches across the world and their bankers and financiers who use the shadow banking to maintain and further enrich themselves using many nations military assets - will not be able to rely on ‘air support’ never mind air America to ship in and out.

I expect a few batteries of over the horizon S400’s never mind actually based in Afghanistan will see to these threats.

These gathered in that valley of doom are not going to fare better than the Light Brigade in the Crimea.

I expect and hope that the 10,000 recruited and trained left over head choppers of Uiggers - who probably were channeled through there in the first place to become the mindless bloodthirsty orcs for the Fukus proxies, against Syria and Iran, will be returned there to be annihilated at such a safe distance.

* ’ The Dominate is the name sometimes given to the “despotic” later phase of imperial government, following the earlier period known as the “Principate”, ’

DunGroanin

Posted by: DG | Aug 21 2021 11:23 utc | 143

Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 21 2021 11:16 utc | 143

Congratulations on you insights, I agree entirely, but how do we fix it?

Posted by: Paul | Aug 21 2021 11:42 utc | 144

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 21 2021 10:06 utc | 139

Re Pat Lang's plan, I didn't know the Stans were open for supporting US destabilisation operations. They used to be open to accommodating US bases, but all that is over. There are no more US bases open in Stan territory. If there were, the evacuation of foreigners and collaborators from Afghanistan would have been much easier. That is why the evacuation flights are to Qatar and Dubai, the nearest land accessible. Note that Ghani fled to Tajikistan or Uzbekistan (or both), no doubt with the idea of running resistance over the border. But he quickly left and is now in al-Udeid, evidently because he was not that welcome, and they put constraints on his behaviour that not even four carloads of dollar cash could remove.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 21 2021 11:46 utc | 145

Arch Bungle @117

You might be right about Pakistan, time will tell. But I wouldn't be to shure; we're in a new 'always', so the rules of the armtwisting game just changed.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 21 2021 11:50 utc | 146

robin @142:

I appreciate your view, and there is a difference. But the difference is mostly for the imperialist countries – it would be a lot better for us if the unwillingness to go to war was based in (genuine) empathy rather than defeatism.
But I’m only part cynic – I think it partly is. And much more importantly: if you are on the receiving end of the imperialist stick it doesn’t matter why empire can’t go to war; the only thing that matters is the fact that it can’t.
And (false) empathy is a good seller of wars: Poor women! Poor children! Poor Afghans! Poor Iraqis! Por Syrians! Poor Libyans! (Need I go on?) Whereas ‘well, we’ll only get our ass kicked anyway, so why bother?” is a nonstarter.
Marketing wars is tough job that just got a lot tougher. A hundred years ago soldiers going to war were sent off by cheering crowds. Today they are sent off by journos, talking heads, think tankers and NGO-operatives. And they are just doing a job they are paid to do. Next time, will people quietly swallow the shit they are shoveling? Chances just increased the answer might be ‘no’.

[Microsoft kindly reminds me that using the word ‘shit’ might be offensive to my reader. If you have the poor judgment of reading what I write, I sincerely apologize.]

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 21 2021 12:09 utc | 147

Regarding Britain’s chances of doing anything in this juncture of history, I wouldn’t be too worried. The US just cut them out of the loop, and quarter of a decade of Brexiting meant that the answer to their cry to rally troops for a retaking of Afghanistan was a very predictable ‘FO’ in continental Europe.

The country has just been reduced to a mothballed carrier group driven by a financial hub anchored just off Europe.

[BTW: this will mean hard times for the British working class. They urgently need to reorganize and reconnect with the outside world.]

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 21 2021 12:20 utc | 148

@106 grieved. You said:

... in regard to the one @76, I think that line of exploration is a dead end - however, we should let it run its course.

I reply: Grieved, please be more specific. I said a lot in that post, and I'm trying to ID the part you take exception to.

@107 grieved. You said:

There are commenters here of long standing who will sometimes present a view on a matter that seems wrong. Other times, on other matters, they may seem completely correct. Politics makes strange bedfellows, and we should take the rough with the smooth.

Some people have very gentle minds - and truth and insight finds no problem to flourish in such minds - but they won't take a beating and stick around. If they don't stick around, we don't get to read them on the next matter that arises, where they may form part of the winning consensus.

We should strive not to drive people away. We should let our compelling analyses rule - analysis, not personas, is all that needs to rule here. People will fall away, naturally and gently, if they don't belong with that.

I reply:

Well said. The reason we come here to MoA is to perfect our world-view. We all start somewhere, and that somewhere isn't always the best-informed point. I am grateful to each of you for helping me form that "winning consensus".

@85 Gordog:

You seem like someone that's had some experience in political settings, and I'm sure you realize how intensely political the top echelons of decision-making here in the U.S. are.

We've already established that a great deal of the war-making activity projected by the U.S. is about directing the national wealth into the pockets of the well-connected. One powerful and well-connected shake-down operation is the MIC-media-corporate cabal.

All the hubbub in the press is testament. The messaging about "chaos at the airport" and "women's rights" are pressure points applied to roll back or at least delay the pullout. The "pullout" represents a fundamental change in course, and it has major implications for the MIC. Major.

Biden has clearly made a choice, and I'm not sure it's a "pivot to China". I think it's a pivot to fundamental realities: the U.S. can't project Empire any longer. That game is closing down. Our economy is hosed from top to bottom,and it's going to take a herculean effort to fix it.

But the general welfare is clearly not of concern to these clowns. The cabal will fight like hell to _prevent_ that pivot. One great way to fight is to make the decision to pivot look bad. Which they are doing. Biden has a lot more freedom to act politically than Trump: people here are fed up with war. MIC over-played their hand, and Biden called them on it. Astute gamesmanship.

Now let's re-examine all this "chaos". Recall that many positions were vacated "without telling anyone" in the early stages of the final exit operation. That was a pre-emptive move. Recall also that G. Britain's nose is out of joint because, to hear them tell it, "we didn't tell them what we're doing". "The special relationship isn't so special".

Think about the significance of those remarks.

What that tells me is that Biden has decided to conduct the pullout no matter what, he knows how the infighting will happen, and where it'll come from.

He over-ruled them, and moved pre-emptively without notification because he anticipated all their road-block moves. Remember: Biden's been around a long, long time. He knows the game, the players, their moves.

Biden kicked their ass. I'm not his biggest fan, but he "done that one good".

Did Biden expect the Taliban to move as fast as they did? Probably not. Is it material? I say "no". The material thing is that the obstructionists - known to exist, known methods - had almost no time to sandbag him the way Trump was sand-bagged.

For those of you not familiar with the games MIC plays, this is how the game works. MIC/Intelligence people want to keep their game going, for all the well-known reasons (elites make money, officers get promoted, status remains high).

So they tell the Prez to stay the course. Don't cut and run, etc. Prez tries to over-rule, so they discredit him. They "fumble the ball". Leak stuff to the press to discredit the policy. They know how to do this, and they've been running this con for decades.

Biden outsmarted them. He can't control all the details on the ground, and there are plenty of sand-bag opptys, and he can't control all of them. Ya makes your choices, and ya takes yer lumps.

Finally, on the subject of "chaos". I think that pull-out is mighty orderly. Got line-ups at the airport? Not significant. Got a lot of hangers-on profiteers, who have been leeching off the taxpayer discomfited? Is that necessarily a bad thing? Not from my vantage point.

How many U.S. people got shot?

And if they did get shot, whose responsibility was it to protect them? The prez? The prez ordered them out, and told them Sept 11 deadline. If anyone got shot, it was the sand-baggers' fault. That's the choice they made. Put the blame where it ought to be.

If you broaden your perspective, and look at _who_ the people are that are shrieking the most, they are (mostly) all of a stripe: the folks running the con.

There is a major, major political battle happening behind the scenes @ top echelon U.S. & related Empire operations. Politics is very messy, and the mess plays out on the ground and in the press if people "don't get their way". Like it or not, it's the way the game is played.

Lastly, the big question is "if not Empire, then what?". That is the really significant question. The U.S. has huge economic challenges ahead, and I think the top people are very, very aware of them, and recognize that playing the Great Game isn't as much fun as it used to be.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 12:22 utc | 149

Pepe Escobar thinks – and maybe rightly so – that the Taliban need stage managers. If I get well again, I will need a new job that’s less stressful than the one I have now. Why don’t they hire me?

>>>Taliban 2.0 bring you [drumroll] HälsUsama Bil Laden! The man of the ’ban teaching you how to exercise, eat, sleep and pray in just the right way! Spiritual boot-camp like you never seen it before! <<<

[For the occasional no-swedishspeaker out there: HälsUsama would be pronounced just like ‘hälsosamma’ which means ‘healthy’.]

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 21 2021 12:36 utc | 150

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 12:22 utc | 150

I want to agree with your analysis of what is going on between Biden and the Borg, and nicely laid out too.

It is interesting to speculate about "agreements" between Biden Putin but I am reminded of Putin's statement when Biden called him a killer "We understand each other perfectly". More to the point I would say that Putin is sharp enough to understand all that is going on and use it for his own purposes.

Biden is trying to resist, like Trump, and likely for the same sort of reasons, but Biden is an insider,
now a renegade, he knows where all the bodies are buried, and is much more dangerous, and theoretically the boss. I think they will try to impeach him too, and fail.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 21 2021 13:01 utc | 151

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 12:22 utc | 150

You make some interesting, insightful and accurate points about Biden and the MIC. I think your description of how the MIC operates is one of the best: "So they tell the Prez to stay the course. Don't cut and run, etc. Prez tries to over-rule, so they discredit him. They "fumble the ball". Leak stuff to the press to discredit the policy. They know how to do this, and they've been running this con for decades."
However, don't forget that Biden is probably the most sold out, compromised president the Empire has vomited out of it's evil innards. This disaster may well turn out to be his last big event, which comports with his style; makes for a good, cathartic movie but he is one person. The cancerous MIC is still alive.

Posted by: migueljose | Aug 21 2021 13:02 utc | 152

Tom Pfotzer @ 151, apologies if you have addressed this comment earlier and I missed it, but I see your point to be that Biden is dealing with reality as he encounters it, and as having done a good thing in taking the power he has to do what he has done. So, it is a contrasting viewpoint to that of Michael Hudson, who saw that first press conference on the change in Afghanistan as opportunity lost.

I might agree with both of you in some respects, but I'm leaning to the latter, as if you put Putin's use of his position into the comparison along with FDR's I think you see the recognition which, in spite of forces arrayed against it, the power of the people's support has to be used in cases like this. Biden doesn't have that people power, but that was his chance to regain it; it isn't lost, it is there in times of trouble and it is a powerful force. We've seen Putin use it when Russia was nearly destroyed. To use a rough analogy, it was clinging to the cliff with the oligarchs and terrorists stomping on its fingers.

Maybe he still will do it. If he does, we'll have to back him up any way we can.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 21 2021 13:04 utc | 153

Tom Pfotzer @ 78

Someone said here @ MoA, and I wish I could attribute credit, that it might be better to let the Afghanis retain their subsistence economy, and forget about the Great Game and transport corridors and copper extraction

That would be me, so thanks, but I see that faith in economic growth is fairly endemic, even here in these threads. Perhaps to many/most subsistence denotes poverty, but prescience suggests otherwise, 'cause...

...concurrently, and on a global scale, we're at the beginning of a much more epochal shift about the basis for an economy

...where food production and water distribution are going to be of critical importance. With a rural population ranging around 75% the Afghanis are already distributed to achieve agrarian sustainability. And ditto for their sheltering needs...they're all set to bring adobe construction into the 21st century. Yes, adobe, that cheap, fireproof, durable, biodegradable, non-toxic building material which provides the thermal mass to buildings to ensure excellent thermal performance.

Enough of this glass and steel. Time to get real.

So in a nutshell there you have it...state-of-the-art food production and state-of-the-art shelter, or should that be vice versa?

Then, yeah, a good education to suss out the best solutions for all our other needs.

Posted by: john | Aug 21 2021 13:13 utc | 154

migueljose @153 - "...he is one person..." Yes! He's the one person! That's what e pluribus unum stands for in this context - he's the one who must speak for all the 'we the people'. It's a powerful position and only he holds it.

I remember a younger Joe Biden telling Charlie Rose how he skied on the Davos slopes. Okay, sir, use that energy now!

Posted by: juliania | Aug 21 2021 13:17 utc | 155

RE: Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 12:22 utc | 150

Now let's re-examine all this "chaos".

Chaos like infinity is a bridge of belief over the chasm of "what we don't know" - akin to dearly departed unknown unkowns.

"folks running the con."

That's not a con, it is an approximation of the "truth", testing Mr. Chomsky's observation/bet hedging that "My country doesn't lie, because to lie you need to know the truth", which in this instance the truth is "we don't known", and so these folks are not running the con, but are trying to convince others that they are - the ones who don't know what chaos and infinity mean, thereby increasing the sum of some who "don't know" including how to approximately "know", since omniscience is not an option in lateral interactions.

However some would like to believe in omniscience, or hegemony, or exceptionalism, and consequently some believe they "know", whilst a greater sum of some believe that they should know, whilst some others evalgelise myths that they do know, sometimes known as “Trust me, I'm an American” or "Jesus he knows me, and knows I'm right".

In such an environment understanding "chaos" whilst hoping for “infinity” is understandable to some, thereby increasing the resort to "chaos" and hopes of "infinity" by others, requiring increasing doses of we-the-people-hold-these-truths-to-self-evidentness, alluded to by some as:

Round-and-round-the-garden-danced-the-teddy-bears-ness

Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 21 2021 13:19 utc | 156

Sorry, at 154 it should read "...the recognition with which..."

Posted by: juliania | Aug 21 2021 13:27 utc | 157

@Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 21 2021 11:16 utc | 143

On coercive social relations, a new proof that what worries most the US puppet governments in Europe is their own officials well being ( like holding the post of next NATO SG...) not the well being of their citizens....Ending a centuries old courtesy free pasage for ships which also were a great part of those locations income...

https://sputniknews.com/world/202108211083678198-moscow-spains-refusal-to-let-russian-ships-into-ceuta-port-violates-partnership-declaration/

In the same vein, while countries like Romania defintely close their "vaccination facilities" ( well, I have found the few Romanians I have met in my life to be a very intelligent educated people...leadrer of unilateral declaration of independence of Catalonia, Puigdemont´s wife, is a Romanian national...) as around 70 of their population refuses the Western vaccines, and even Germany is going to close its vacciantion facilities next september for lack of afluence, Spain continues in a frenzy to vaccination its whole population..

At this point in time, it is clear what the priorities are of the current Spanish government...and their grasp of reality...
He remained on vacation during the whole Afghanistan crisis ( even I myself, a mindundi who paints nothing, offered along my fellow citizens as sacrifical lamb to the US Big Pharma, passed the whole past Sunday informing myself!!!...) but well, why is he to worry, has he to decide anything?
Probably Larry Fink told him to stay at the beach whatever the outcomes in their last interview at the US, asuring him they will handle everything, including in Spain....

https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/401575-sanchez-crisis-afganistan-taliban

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 21 2021 13:29 utc | 158


What I love about MoA is the immense combination of astute geopolitical analysis combined with tactical updates about things from all kind of peoples.

I honestly have not found a better forum to get thoughts from in this era of censorship. I check MoA first thing in the morning before reading newspapers and it is often the only news I catch in a day.

With regards to Afghanistan, I think another proxy-campaign seems out of place. Like fighting with the tools of last war. I don't think the Taliban will do mass executions, but will for sure try to weed out every covert agent of the West (or others for that sake).

Afghanistan is protected from any maritime excursions and the distances accross land regions makes a prolonged air bridge very unlikely, not to mention Imran Khan's second thoughts about allowing ANY new bases for NAT, likely to include overflights after August.

Ultimately, this entire thing is a huge Grand Tactical venture gone totally wrong and a significant geopolitical shift is likely to follow..

Posted by: Harald | Aug 21 2021 13:30 utc | 159

Some grasp of reality, that President of Spain could reasearch as i do, all the more when he enoys a whole inteliigence service...

What the US did with its $2.3Trillion in Afghanistan in 20yrs? The number of Afghans living in poverty has doubled, and the areas under poppy cultivation have tripled. More than one-third of Afghans have no food, half no drinking water, two-third no electricity.

https://twitter.com/ashoswai/status/1429018992321175553

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 21 2021 13:39 utc | 160

DG @ 143, well said!

Posted by: juliania | Aug 21 2021 13:42 utc | 161

Pepe Escobar has just posted on his Telegram channel (and I expect also on VK)...

"Senior Taliban leaver Khalil Haqqani says that Massoud Jr has just pledged allegiance to the Tabilan".

He includes a video...

Posted by: mcs_ | Aug 21 2021 13:43 utc | 162

That should have been "Senior Taliban leader"... Blasted fat fingers today!

Posted by: mcs_ | Aug 21 2021 13:45 utc | 163

Some kinda neutral sources are reporting a whole fake new operation being unleashed to cover the current "moderate" Taliban with shit, even using old images and news dating years ago...

On the current chaos at Kabul airport, recalling it is still under NATO/US command, and the "difficulties" some are finding in rescuing/withdrawing their personel, to add that in the first hours after the Taliban take over, the Czechs have already managed to evacuate all their personel for the asonishing of some military guys from other US puppet countries ( which added to the Romanian attitude towards the "vaccines" inform us about the advantegous mental and intelligence state of those ex-Soviet peoples hold in a full war torn environment, may be this wisdom was transmitted through genetics, a thing Western Big Pahram is now firmly decided to erase...),some Ukrainian kind of SOF ( by the attire...)remain stranded in a sharp Afghan mountainous location not knowing what to do, or whether they should go to the Russian consulate, as a last resort....

https://twitter.com/DeanoBeano1/status/1428799132014088198

What they were doing there, in the firts place?

Meanwhile, Zelensky is very busy censoring opposition media, probably on US orders...

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 21 2021 13:51 utc | 164

Well, it seems I have come under scrutiny for my plain-speaking style. [ie calling dumb 'dumb'.]

I began engaging here about military-technical matters, which I know well, at a professional level. There was surprising interest among the commenter community, and I was encouraged by our gracious host to contribute articles from time to time. I have also recieved many subject requests etc. I intend to bring those forth as I am able to produce quality material.

I have not engaged in contentious debates like covid and vaccines, even though I do have my own views. Also in other subjects that have come up, where I really don't have a solid base. My approach is to only discuss subjects in which I do have some professional experience and can contribute something substantial.

The Afghan situation falls under that heading, and I have been eagerly participating. But I see that the discussion is dominated by things which I know to be non-issues [ie dumb].

For instance, I pointed out specific military-technical issues, that some folks here did grasp, and that is encouraging and gratifying. I also got rambling responses arguing about the 'definition' of chaos!

So there is no point to go further on this issue of Afghanistan. I am right now working on bringing the group here a new article on the space technology issue, in which there is a lot of interest.

Posted by: Gordog | Aug 21 2021 14:23 utc | 165

@Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 21 2021 13:39 utc | 160

Anyway, even knowing about all this Afghanistan "developing data" for the last 20 years, it is no wonder that Spanish president Sánchez will continue holding that Spanish troops destined in Afghanistan as part of US/NATO operation have provided "a certain stability", when he holds as well Spain is doing quite well with the "EU Recovery Funds", while these funds are funelled towards the same corporations provoking the economic sinking of Spain and its public health care system by priviledging "vaccination" over any other economic or social estimulus measure ( BlackRock is cureently the major stockholder at IBEX35 and as well at Pfizer, thus...connect the dots on who is pocketing the "EU Recovery Funds"...no funds have reached the public health system in any way for betterment of its conditions in an alleged "growing pandemic environment"... ), including electric corporations, with an escalating electricity bill for taxpayers said to reach its record high every month, now having been placed its record for August...

Astonishingly, anybody, except the so labeled "negationists" ( and this only about the mRNA and other Western Covid-19 "vaccines" ...for now...), dare to protest in Spain, in an environment the past fascist dictatorship would had wished they could have enjoyed, when at those times a not so despicable number of people played their lives every day amongst the resistance to dictatorial rule ( but well, those only were being innoculated long time proved sure and effective real vaccines...)

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 21 2021 14:24 utc | 166

@166 Gordog: Feel free to plain-speak to me. I said some stuff that disputes your perspective. Let rip.

I re-iterated Grieved's text because I do believe that there are folks that may want to speak, but don't feel totally comfortable doing it. Need to draw them in.

And I definitely do want to hear what they have to say, most especially if they disagree. c1ue, for example, is on my case all the time. Makes me think twice before posting.

They're not going to take you on, Gordog. Strong personalities - remember, this is kettle-pot talk - strong personalities can easily shut down dialog.

Looking forward to your next major submission.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 14:35 utc | 167

@151 bemildred. You said:

It is interesting to speculate about "agreements" between Biden Putin but I am reminded of Putin's statement when Biden called him a killer "We understand each other perfectly". More to the point I would say that Putin is sharp enough to understand all that is going on and use it for his own purposes.

I reply: you bet they understand one another perfectly. Each one speaking their lines; the know the play by heart. Putin's got the better staff, tho. Lavrov is superb. Not sure I could name any SecState with his chops.

And about those agreements...yes, I know those agreements get made, and I'm pretty sure Putin follows through on them (he can, he's got enough power). Not so much on the U.S. side. Would love to hear the dialog, tho, because that's the closest you can get to unfiltered "here's who has power, this is what they want, this is what I'm willing to offer to make it happen, do we have a deal?"

Fabulous TV, if only it would happen.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 14:44 utc | 168

RE: Posted by: Paul | Aug 21 2021 11:42 utc | 144

“but how do we fix it? “

Framing limits perception, and perception limits opportunities.

Fixing is neither an option nor a “solution” but a revolution around a fixed point with occasional waverings/oscillations within “tolerances”, whilst transcending is a constant option with cooperation based upon from each according to her/his abilities, to each according to her/his needs which takes many forms.

In Russia this manifested itself in various forms including but not limited to the complicity of Gosplan in fairy tale production to ensure everyone got their bonuses, the policy of first perestroika then glasnost by useful fools since glasnost first was not an option, the slogans “They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work” and “100 people make the laws and 100 million find ways around them, the restructuring of blat from forms of bribery to relations of co-operation, the 4 day week-end, the increase in dachas and co-operatives instead of Kolkhoz and coversion ratios of the “Soviet seed potato”, being respectful of one another, repairing household goods etc, etc.

Transcending is multi-lateral and multi-interactive, a process that has been on-going from at least 1956 with the complicity by default of the relations to be transcended.

Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 21 2021 14:46 utc | 169

Pepe Escobar has just posted on his Telegram channel (and I expect also on VK)...

"Senior Taliban leaver Khalil Haqqani says that Massoud Jr has just pledged allegiance to the Tabilan".

He includes a video...
--------------------------------
Phttps://en.topwar.ru/186213-protivorechivye-afganskie-svodki-ot-obeschanij-masuda-zakljuchit-mir-s-talibami-do-zajavlenij-o-potere-boevikami-hindzhana.html

Hvis dette er tilfelle er det nå TOTALT kroken på døre for USA/UK i Afghanistan og en enorm diplomatisk fjær i hatten til Taliban.

Posted by: Harald | Aug 21 2021 14:46 utc | 170

bystander @ 109 with the link to the PBS piece on Afghanistan - to answer the one who previously posted about this, having watched the interview online, no, no, no, PBS has not changed its attitude one whit! (Thank you, bystander, for the transcript.)

The best answer to the above interview is to be found at the youtube link given by migueljose at 142 on the previous open thread. It is a discussion between Max Blumenthal, Ben Norton, and Pepe Escobar. Here is that link again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiF3TQZSxhs

Corruption, yes, PBS got that right, but everything else they got wrong. And the interesting thing was how the PBS interview's one example of corruption zeroed in on Karzai as the chief source of the corruption! Karzai is one among three Afghan leaders who form, according to Pepe, the current Taliban's temporary advisors of note.

But corruption, the real deal - for that, go to the above link (or if I haven't transposed it correctly, to the original post on the open thread.) Thanks again, miguel jose!

Posted by: juliania | Aug 21 2021 14:51 utc | 171

by: vk @ 11 Americans are always like that: they just play the anti-war card when they're losing. The lesson is clear: the rest of the world must ramp up their military prowess, imposing their will on the Americans by force.

<= vk continues to confuse Americans with those who control the USA, UK, Saudi, Israel, French, and Turk governments. These government are used as <=control tool of the oligarchs and their leg breaker corporations that keep the oligarchs rich and powerful. Rule of law is the source corporations use to own the natural resources important to their profits and assets, and as a whip, which allows them to reduce humanity to producer slaves (as if they were machines). .. The Oligarch have placed profit, assets, greed and power over human rights, <= but it is the humans in each of these nation states that have allowed themselves to be made producer slaves. So, why is there no effective collective world wide human effort to fix this unfortunate global situation?

It is wrong to continue to blame the people confined to one nation state for the direction those in power of the nation have forced these people to take.

These nation state confined people (the governed) are manipulated, used, cajoled, by both local and the global nation state franchise system.

What is it about the nation state that keeps humanity conformed to initiatives against its better being? How does that voluntary imprisonment come about? Slowly human history discovered, individuals have super rights which overpower Emperor, king, parliament, or committee propaganda. Progressively wealth and power has been reduced and distributed to lower and lower echelons of more and more humanity (meaning more people now participate and share in the good life of the nation state. The distribution of governing power started with the Emperor The trend is toward direct democracy..

Challenged, the Oligarch began to understand if they did not stop the trend, they would loose their power to the distribution of their power to the masses. The Oligarch would be forced to share their wealth with masses. To stop this trend, they refined the emerging idea of the nation state and learned how to engineer constitutions to suit their intentions. They joined the independent nations and tribes into a membership(citizen of) system(based on territory). that placed groups of humans under control of a nation state franchise. In other words people in certain territories were made to share the same prison cell (the nation state), to obey the same rule of law, to donate the productive capacities of their lives to the prison. Why? Because the nation state was a systematic means that could allow the Oligarch to stay in power and to stop the continual trend of global governance toward the direct democracy tread. The powerful and wealthy few, had to stop the Trend. The nation state offered a global system capable to retain power and capable to redirect wealth from the rule of law controlled masses to the Oligarch few.

Oligarchs liked the way nation states could be used to separate, indoctrinate, manipulate and control all humanity <=in one go. The Oligarch realized the nation state system reaches to every corner of the globe, reaches to every spot in which humanity can hide, and does so, without more than to write into nation state law, what the oligarch demand humans do.

Humans are indoctrinated from birth to death to conform their thoughts, behaviors, hopes and desires to the nation state in which they are born or reside. Indoctrination implemented by propaganda, family tradition, public school, books, movies, jobs, military and contact with just about every institution found within the nation state converts the self image (human) to self image (part of the state). Instead of obtaining the air to breath themselves, they are taught to attach themselves within the body of the nation state, and depend on its vascular system for life giving oxygen, the vascular system of the state would provide the individual his or her oxygen. Rewards are created that cause people born into a particular nation state to transfer their survival priorities from sovereign self to survival needs of the state. Humanity is a dependent of the the nation state because from birth it has been taught that such a dependency is natural. But dependency is not natural, it is absorbed as one grows up.

In my opinion, humanity needs to develop its own constitution and recognize that as robots become more human like, survival of governed humanity becomes less likely.


Max @ 12..The people's debt is the bank's profit and look at how amendment XVI reversed word for word Article I, Section 9 [4].. in the US constitution in 1913.

the result Fed Bank's profit $x = people's cash in hand $X
each increase in gov't debt.. increases banks profit; Tax Payer get worthless paper.

To answer question who suffers most when the Financial Empire falls: UK or USA..
Ans it depends on whether or not subject government fails..if government falls
oligarch will be stripped of the bank schemes and property, people start over.

If govt d/n fail, people will loose b\c they must pay the debt off, so
private banks win. That is why in the Constitution of the United States at Article VI. Sec 8 ([1] "All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the US under this Constitution, as under the confederation. <= In other words, the British Bankers and Recipients of land grants from British governments before the American Revolution (1776) wrote this clause into the constitution.. to save their wealth and power. It was the British who discovered how to use constitutions in foreign lands to save their wealth and power.


jackrabbit at 13 quotes
Caitlin Johnstone , who explains:

Corporate media is mind control at mass scale. People who identify as smart, independent thinkers have their minds altered by it every day, and they believe they came to those opinions on their own. Until this problem is addressed, none of our other major problems are going away.

<= corporate media is supported by every person or corporation that advertises or that makes the nightly news. MSM probably receives more revenue than any other industry in the world, yet few of us believe a word of their propaganda. ??

Posted by: snake | Aug 21 2021 14:55 utc | 172

@ gordog - i didn't know anyone listened to that, so thanks for saying that!

@ Yeah, Right | Aug 21 2021 10:06 utc | 137...i have come to the sad conclusion pat lang is a christian zealot who still believes in empire.... i stopped reading him many months ago... i would put everything he has to say in this context - a christian zealot who still believes in his usa empire...

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2021 14:57 utc | 173

Patrick Armstrong's Russia Sitrep August 19:

here

---

Fabulous TV, if only it would happen.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 14:44 utc | 168

Yes, I do look for those opportunities to watch them interact in person. :-)

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 21 2021 14:59 utc | 174

Tom Pfotzer @Aug21 12:22 #149

We've already established that a great deal of the war-making activity projected by the U.S. is about directing the national wealth into the pockets of the well-connected.

It's also important to understand that this siphoning is not the only motivation. There are also powerful ideological imperatives as well.

=
Biden has clearly made a choice ... Biden kicked their ass. ... Biden outsmarted them.

I think you are giving Biden too much credit. Presidents are not the decison-makers that we are led to believe they are.

The portrayal of Biden as mentally deficient, for example, is deliberately obfuscating. His 'sudden' and hapazard pull-out is supposed to reflect that. In actuality the pullout would've been planned for months.

=
There is a major, major political battle happening behind the scenes ...

There is a tendency to view developments as unfolding organically without planning. This is a cognitive bias that is exploited by TPTB. Reading into what is taken as occurring-without-planning is a logical mistake.

In actuality, USA/Empire has been reacting to Russia-China Alliance since 2014. In late August 2014, after the Donbas rebels decisively beat Ukraine, Kissinger penned an Op-Ed for the Wall Street Journal that I interpreted at the time as a virtual declaration of war: On the Assembly of a New World Order. In his Op-Ed Kissinger urged the United States to rekindle the greatness that led to its victory in the first Cold War. Ten months later, Trump was the MAGA candidate and breezed past 18 other candidates to win the Republican Primaries.

... look at _who_ the people are that are shrieking the most ... the folks running the con.

They're shrieking sets up the next intervention.

While that might be a rerun of the war on Afghanistan (as b believes is desired by the Brits) but it seems more likely (IMO) that it is Lebanon.

Lebanon's collapse (after the port sabotage) and Hezbollah's warning to the West sets this up nicely.

=
... "if not Empire, then what?"

For the Empire managers that run things and the power-elite that they serve, There Is No Alternative (TINA!). And they see no need for an alternative because they are so adept at manipulating the masses.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 21 2021 15:01 utc | 175

@152 MiguelJose. You said:

However, don't forget that Biden is probably the most sold out, compromised president the Empire has vomited out of it's evil innards. This disaster may well turn out to be his last big event, which comports with his style; makes for a good, cathartic movie but he is one person. The cancerous MIC is still alive.

I reply: Yeah. Nothing's going to change overnight, but one thing I keep in mind: this pulling in the horns thing has been going on a while.

It's been like watching plate tectonics. Extremely boring close-up of interlocking mountains. Then something big happens, provides clues about where the front is. Think "particle accelerator". Can't see the particle, but you can tell it's there from all the debris that comes out after impact.

Here's something funny, MiguelJose. Remember all the recent blather about UFOs and shooting down threatening asteroids? MIC is desperately casting about for it's next boon-doggle. That's another clue. Fits the criteria, right?

a. big budget
b. plenty fear-mongering potential
c. clicks for media. Media cares about clicks. The Mighty Fourth Estate. Clicks.

=========
@153 Juliania. You said:

Biden doesn't have that people power, but that was his chance to regain it; it isn't lost, it is there in times of trouble and it is a powerful force. We've seen Putin use it when Russia was nearly destroyed. To use a rough analogy, it was clinging to the cliff with the oligarchs and terrorists stomping on its fingers.

Maybe he still will do it. If he does, we'll have to back him up any way we can.

I reply:

No, Biden is not a great speaker, and it's probably because he's not animated by the big ideas. If he is, he's disguising it well. He's smart, but doesn't seem brilliant. Putin, Lavrov? Pretty close to brilliant. But we have a lot more experience with them, right? Been on the bridge longer.

We may discover a Biden we've not seen. Man seems to have courage, but we can't see the discussions behind his decisions. He could have a lot of backup, in which case he's on solid ground, and just being Executive. We don't know that yet. Putin didn't get where he is over-night. He had to win several hands of high-stakes poker to do it.

Your last remark "we'll have to back him up any way we can" explains nearly all my remarks re: Biden. I'm providing backup. Doesn't matter what I think of the person, I'm providing support for right-action.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 15:03 utc | 176

There is no way the Taliban is going to be overthrown by "rebels" who are on the US payroll.

None.

We have just had the most convincing and dramatic proof of the viability of an "Afghan" organization that is oh-so-obviously on the US payroll.

As in: it's doomed.

Yet as far as Lang is concerned the USA should just keep doing it, because it can.

I'm sure it'll end well.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 21 2021 10:06 utc | 137


It doesn't have to succeed. Let me repeat that: IT DOESN'T HAVE TO SUCCEED.

It just needs to perpetuate a one-way pipeline flow from the US budgets (black and otherwise) to the war profiteers.

Posted by: corvo | Aug 21 2021 15:09 utc | 177

@154 John:

Thanks for stepping in. This whole "appropriate technology" and "what econ design actually fits into how the natural world functions" subject is rapidly escalating in my world-view.

I'm trying to suss out what the major forces are which will drive Economy 2.0.

This is OT here at the moment (except in context of Afghanistan's immediate next-econ-moves), so I'm going to hang fire.

I'm hoping b will set a golf ball up on the tee at some point, and we can have a go at it.

I get the feeling that .. ahem...there's going to be a lively discussion about it, and I'm going to be odd-man-out.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 15:17 utc | 178

by: vk @ 11 Americans are always like that: they just play the anti-war card when they're losing. The lesson is clear: the rest of the world must ramp up their military prowess, imposing their will on the Americans by force.

<= vk continues to confuse Americans with those who control the USA, UK, Saudi, Israel, French, and Turk governments.

[snip]

Posted by: snake | Aug 21 2021 14:55 utc | 172


Except that vk is mostly right -- opinion polls prior to and during the Second Iraq War, for instance, demonstrate that amply -- and to the extent that vk isn't right, I think it's much less a matter of "confusion" than it is an act of shorthand. After all, as you point out, the masses are easily manipulated and thus their opinions largely irrelevant.

Posted by: corvo | Aug 21 2021 15:17 utc | 179

Phil Butler weighs in with some historical perspective:

Remember, Lyndon B. Johnson’s Great Society was expensive, as was the Vietnam War, and those moon launches did not come cheap either. Nixon was forced to nix the gold standard, and the dollar became pure paper, or “air” if we tell the whole truth. We’ve no space here to discuss the ramifications of the Great Depression, but the collapse of the Bretton Woods agrement, the establishment of the so-called Phillips curve in pursuit of lower unemployment, and other factors like fiscal imbalances and energy shortages culminated about the time Saigon was evacuated. A peanut farmer from South Georgia named Jimmy Carter took the Oval Office, hostages were snatched in Tehran, the Shah fell, and a Russia hater named Zbigniew Brzezinski advised Carter to “give the Soviet Union their own Vietnam in Afghanistan.”

Funny, it all seems like yesterday, real, and horrific in the essence we now realize. And remember, it was in the midst of the Saigon betrayal that crude oil prices quadrupled, only to turn into a second energy crisis after the Iranian revolution brought a second energy crisis in 1979. This second crisis tripled the cost of oil. Remember I pointed to this, because we are headed there again. Imagine President Joe Biden gettiong hold of some files and advisers snatching his arm after taking office, that is what all this Afghanistan hubub is all about. His meeting and mini-reset with Russia’s Vladimir Putin is part of the mess too.

Remember, back in the summer of 1980 inflation in the United States was near 14.5 percent, unemployment was over 7.5 percent, and Carter was a bum to most Americans. Then along came Hollywood cowboy turned politician, Ronald Reagan. Smooth as silk, Reagan introduced a form of economics that made billionaires out of millionaires, and the military industrial complex was not just back on track, America was building fleets! I was part of the 600 ship navy. It was fiscal carnage what our Navy was spending for socket wrenches and coffee cups back then. But, I am ahead of myself.

The Real Reason Biden Abandoned Afghanistan So Fast

I remember promises of both guns and butter, and I remember gas lines. How do you think gas lines are going to go over here. Jimmy Carter was elected on the same anti-war pro-domestic issues platform that Obama, Trump, and Biden all used too. This has been going on that long, like lemmings heading for the cliff.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 21 2021 15:28 utc | 180

@175 Jackrabbit.

Your statements and my replies interleaved below.

... There are also powerful ideological imperatives as well.

Tom: Absolutely. Maintaining the story line "we are righteous and powerful" keeps the people on-side. Big reason for media.

... Presidents are not the decison-makers that we are led to believe they are.

Tom: No. I think the day that crashed into my consciousness was right after 911, and we see W walking down the aisle to give his address, outlining what our response would be. Caricature: rooster strut, shoulders thrust back, smirk installed, trying so valiantly to play the part. Rumsfeld and Cheney in the background, watching.

... In actuality the pullout would've been planned for months.

Tom: No question. Vast number of moving parts. The problem with the plan is that it tells the sand-baggers where to put the monkey-wrench, and I that accounts for at least some of the apparent "chaos".

.... In actuality, USA/Empire has been reacting to Russia-China Alliance since 2014.

Tom: as soon as the elites figured out that China wasn't going to let our rentiers install the taps on their maple tree, that's when the irritation started. But here's a key point: look how long it took to get consensus to throttle the consumer-goods-import game? Still not shut down, after all this, Jackrabbit. Hard to say there's a consensus re: China when you see massive, continuous flow of wealth out to China (we'll discuss tech transfer another day) even while China is eating our lunch over at the other end of Asia @ Afghanistan. There is major discord among the elites about how to cope with the pickle they're in.

... virtual declaration of war: On the Assembly of a New World Order. In his Op-Ed Kissinger urged the United States to rekindle the greatness that led to its victory in the first Cold War. Ten months later, Trump was the MAGA candidate and breezed past 18 other candidates to win the Republican Primaries.

Tom:

a. I don't agree causation Kissinger to Trump. Trump won because he is masterful manipulator, knows how to use media. Trump's grasp of economics and geopolitics could fit in a thimble, and he was advocating "end of foreign involvement" which is one big reason he got elected .vs. Hillary Clinton

b. Kissinger is the architect of "let's try to dupe China! We'll give them our factories, let them do the work, we'll sell the stuff to the Rubes, and pocket the skim!" policy. That was a galactic strategic blunder, and U.S. will likely never really recover. Kissinger is passe; Rumbly old man that's not kept up.

... They're shrieking sets up the next intervention.

Tom: if they can, sure. The question is whether or not there's been a sea-change in elite attitude about "how bad the problems at home are". Home's coming apart.


... For the Empire managers that run things and the power-elite that they serve, There Is No Alternative (TINA!). And they see no need for an alternative because they are so adept at manipulating the masses.

Tom: I'm wondering if their mojo on the dupe game isn't slipping a bit, JackRabbit. See: fake news, covid response fracas, who-to-trust-in-government erosion, questioning elections, the all-points-of-compass rage of the Red states...

I'm not sure at all that the Elites have got this thing all the way sewed up the way it was @911-time. I'm seeing a lot of leaks in the containment-field.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 15:48 utc | 181

I do see claims that support for Biden's withdrawal is being suppressed. Can't say how organized is it yet. But then there is this:

Tucker Carlson Defends ‘Senile’ Biden as Officials, Media Abandon POTUS Over Afghanistan Disaster

In a Friday press conference on the US military’s ongoing evacuation from Afghanistan, Biden declared that the US had been successful in ridding Afghanistan of al-Qaeda*, and dismissed reports of Americans being stopped from reaching Kabul’s airport to be evacuated, saying that the US and the Taliban had reached an agreement on their safety.

Just moments later, in separate briefings and press conferences, Secretary of Defence Lloyd Austin and Pentagon spokesman John Kirby contradicted Biden on both claims, with Austin telling House lawmakers that some Americans have been harassed or beaten by Taliban* militants. Kirby, meanwhile, told reporters at the Pentagon that al-Qaeda* and Daesh (ISIS)* are present in Afghanistan, and complained that it is difficult to determine just how many terrorists are in the country because “our intelligence-gathering ability in Afghanistan isn’t what it used to be” amid the ongoing withdrawal.

Let's see if anything happens to Tucker.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 21 2021 15:49 utc | 182

The US establishment, starting with Obama's pivot failure, wants out of west Asia nation-building in order to focus on China and Russia. Israel, a country smaller than New Jersey with fewer people, won't stand for it.
. . .from Breaking Defense:
In private talks with top Israeli defense and political sources alike, the view was echoed that the US drawing down in the region and the fall of Afghanistan, combined with ongoing aggression from Iran and political instability in Lebanon, all tie together into a potential regional bonfire. One senior source even raised concerns that Jordan or Iraq “be thrown away in one well planned act of the extreme jihad.”. .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 21 2021 15:53 utc | 183

Gordog @Aug20 22:48 #75:

That pullout was completely logical. Even the part about not telling the puppet government made sense, for a number of reasons. One, they could not really be trusted, as a lot of information has clearly been leaking from the puppets to Taliban, who of course have had their network of collaborators on the inside for a long time.

Those military assets, most crucially the combat aircraft, simply had to go, once the decision was made to pull out. You do not leave these kinds of assets like you would leave a humvee. Never mind the human assets, such as the highly trained pilots.

It is completely ridiculous now, to yap in hindsight about how this was a 'mistake.' No it was not a mistake. They had a plan, but that plan came to naught.


I see this differently.

Plans for "over the horizon" air support presupposes that USA had stood up an Afghan army that was capable of defending against the Taliban.

But if USA really had confidence that the Afghan army could defend against the Taliban, then they wouldn't have needed to make a surprise exit from Baghram.

Occam's Razor argues for a simpler explanation: USA *KNEW* that they Afghan army would collapse soon after USA left. The "over-the-horizon" talk-talk was just ass-covering to finesse the truth: they knowingly abandoned Afghanistan/Afghanis to the Taliban.

But the collapse happened even more rapidly than expected. This was possibly an unintended consequence of the Baghram exit which was demoralizing because it was a sign of no confidence in the Afghan government/army.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 21 2021 15:54 utc | 184

@ Tom Pfotzer (#149), thanks for sharing your perspectives and good analysis.

It is still too early to state where the Imperial Council is taking the Financial Empire. However, it is focused on two main themes: China and Russia/Resources. Biden is just an administrator of its stratagem. Here is another possibility...

Capture Global Resources - Russia
Our world is nuanced and there are different factions even among Neocons (ME, EE, Asia,...) and Neoliberals (financial, trade,...). They do work together when their interests are aligned. Biden’s team is dominated by East-European Neocons (EE-Neocons) such as Victoria Nuland, Soros,.. They would rather see the Biden administration focus on Russia-Europe and capture the natural resource realm. They’re driving the regime change in Belarus, the Ukrainian conflict,... They were active in the Obama administration too. If this is JB’s plan then it makes sense to withdraw from Afghanistan.

In the last 2008 Beijing Olympics, a conflict occurred in Georgia, Europe (08-08-08). In 2014, during the Sochi Olympics a conflict happened in Ukraine. Will we see a conflict in Europe during 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics? There are elections in Germany and Russia in September.

Posted by: Max | Aug 21 2021 16:06 utc | 185

People here are losing a lot of time theorizing what doesn't need theory.

The USA was defeated.

It is obvious no POTUS ever will publicly declare the USA was militarily defeated and is fleeing in order to avoid a rout/unconditional surrender. Biden would never - and will never, to his grave - admit that. Instead, the POTUS will simply claim the USA took the rational decision to "withdraw"/"pullout" of Afghanistan, that the "Afghan army disappointed the USA" etc. It would be politically illiterate for Biden to declare defeat.

But it was a defeat. Biden announced an honorable withdrawal to be finished at September 11th, 2021. Kabul was lost at August 15th, 2021. That's why the Kabul airport fiasco is happening. So, we have a situation where the POTUS - the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of the United States of America - could not even decide the time. When you can't flee the battlefield on your own terms, that means you were defeated militarily - to claim Biden simply decided to end the Afghanistan War because it was his political project is as absurd as to say the Nazi high officers "decided" to "withdraw" from WWII (to the West) after the Red Army entered Berlin.

Biden didn't decide to withdraw/pullout of Afghanistan. The American had to flee Afghanistan, against their will, because they were defeated in the battlefield. It wasn't his decision: it was the Taliban's decision, imposed on him.

The American people will have to get used to a new era, an era where the POTUS is not a God on Earth (Global Dictator).

Posted by: vk | Aug 21 2021 16:11 utc | 186

Tom Pfotzer @Aug21 15:48 #181

Trump won because he is masterful manipulator, knows how to use media.

The Presidency is the lynch-pin of the Empire. No one becomes President without the consent of the Deep State Empire managers. To see the truth of this, one only needs a cursory look at recent Presidents who have ALL dutifully served the Deep State and the power-elite.

Populist Presidents and candidates like Obama, Sanders, Trump have led their flock to a dead-end. That is not by accident. These populists are establishment stooges.

-
Kissinger is passe; Rumbly old man that's not kept up.

Kissinger is still relevant because he has many powerful contacts that listen to him. He has long been considered the 'Dean' of the US foreign policy establishment. This "old man that's not kept up" recently traveled to China to meet Xi.

=
I'm wondering if their mojo on the dupe game isn't slipping a bit, JackRabbit. See: fake news, covid response fracas, who-to-trust-in-government erosion, questioning elections, the all-points-of-compass rage of the Red states...

You see chaos. I see divide and conquer ... and the need for a strong leader. I expect the Republicans will win the mid-terms and the Presidential election in 2024.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 21 2021 16:13 utc | 187

Bemildred @Aug21 15:49 #182: Let's see if anything happens to Tucker.

LOL. You forgot the /sarc tag.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 21 2021 16:15 utc | 188

speaking of elites and etc and since this thread has gone off in a number of different directions, i would to share an article from a thread or two back that a poster @ptb shared... i think it is especially insightful if you missed it... i highly recommend this article...

Farewell to Bourgeois Kings

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2021 16:16 utc | 189

@Harald | Aug 21 2021 14:46 utc | 170

Remember this is an English language site. I understand what you say in Norwegian, but I guess I am pretty much alone.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 21 2021 16:17 utc | 190

Remember this is an English language site. I understand what you say in Norwegian, but I guess I am pretty much alone.

Posted by: Norwegian

Ooops, I am sorry about that. Don't know why I did that, but I was on the phone with a friend as I typed... :)

Again, well, if Masood is now on board with the Taliban, this is a definite game over for the Hegemon. Now, the Taliban wil find and wipe out all covert agents (well, at least 90% of them) and shore up internal security and they only need to sit tight for when the occupants finally leave the airport.

Posted by: Harald | Aug 21 2021 16:21 utc | 191

uncle tungsten @122
Gen. Milley: "I did not, nor did anyone else see a collapse of an army that size in 11 days."

Great link, Milley is either an idiot, a liar, or a poser for the MIC. I would wager on all three and more.

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 21 2021 16:43 utc | 192

Afghanistan: The End of the Occupation, the piece you cite, does have a lot of interesting and important information. Remarkable though that it fails to ever mention the CIA role in the Mujahideen, and much research that supports anti-communist sentiment seems to emerge from the Northern Pashtun area (Northern Alliance stronghold).

Posted by: tricia becker | Aug 21 2021 16:56 utc | 193

Around and roundabout news.

This warning is because several Chinese were killed in a bus blast (maybe 2 buses?). It is aimed at the Pakistan/Chinese port through which the BRI will pass after Afghanistan. China is not happy.

Global Times. "Some external forces reportedly have incited the terrorists in Pakistan to inflict damage on China and Chinese interests. Once China obtains evidence that they support terror forces in Pakistan, China will punish them."
***

The US has brought in at least ten or more small, rapid, helicopters for Urban fighting. These are touted as being the last to leave to cover everyone else. But then where would they go to?

"Night Stalker Special Ops Helicopters Now In Kabul Could Be Critical To Evacuation"

****

Now that Qatar is full with 10'000 Af refugees, the problem of where they are to go has become acute. The EU (Germany and France have taken quite a few) but only 2'000 have gone to the US.

"State of play: With the U.S. military's efforts to evacuate American citizens and at-risk Afghans from the country ramping up, and Qatar's al-Udeid air base at maximum capacity, the U.S. was scrambling for more places to take evacuees.

- Bahrain, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Tajikistan, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and Uzbekistan "have been or will soon be transiting Americans or in some circumstances, others, through their territories to safety," the State Department said on Friday.
- State Department spokesman Ned Price said that "Albania, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, Chile, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Mexico, Poland, Qatar, Rwanda, Ukraine and Uganda have also made generous offers regarding the relocation efforts for at-risk Afghans."
- No U.S. flights left Kabul for eight hours on Friday afternoon as Qatar had reached capacity.
- President Biden clarified later Friday that the flights had paused to process the arriving evacuees at the transit point, but that Kabul officials already gave orders for outbound flights to resume."

* US troops are being used to reinforce garrisons in the ME. Even in Syria, and Iraq. Might not be long term assignements, as in Iraq they are up to the 122'nd IED attack on logistical convoys.

****

There are at least five warships off the coast of Lebanon today. I don't know whose. Could be Israel but they seem (from a distance) to be too big. Possibly Russian.

Might be connected with the arrival of Iranian Oil tankers, and the 24 missiles fired at Syria yesterday. (22 shot down).

To watch.

****

The Afghan army is reforming in Pansjir, There seem to be quite a lot of foot soldiers. Reminds me of a SciFi story I once read where a Medieval English village, took over an Intergalactic Empire ("Weskers" if I remember correctly) by using commonly used, at that time, warfare tactics. In one incident, the Weskers were besieged in an impenetrable fortress. So the English Lord sent in ALL the hostages he could round up from the neighbourhood, and sent them into the enemy fortress. The Weskers capitulated soon after. Why? - not enough food, and the "refugees" only made the situation worse.

Suggestion? The Taliban round up ALL those who want to leave and send them into the Pasjir valley. How long before they all starve?

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 21 2021 17:08 utc | 194

Jackrabbit wrote:


Occam's Razor argues for a simpler explanation: USA *KNEW* that they Afghan army would collapse soon after USA left. The "over-the-horizon" talk-talk was just ass-covering to finesse the truth: they knowingly abandoned Afghanistan/Afghanis to the Taliban.

But the collapse happened even more rapidly than expected.
______________________________________________________________________
I don't think the collapse of the govt forces happened quicker than expected.

What nobody seems to be noticing is that the only reason there is chaos in Kabul is because there are tens of thousands of Afghans that are expecting the departing westerners to take them with them when they leave. If it were not for the mob of Afghans surrounding the airport, the departure of westerners themselves (those who wish to leave) would be orderly and quick - something similar to all the westerners that were quickly evacuated from Wuhan in Jan 2020.

And if this looks like the fall of Saigon its because the chaos of that situation also mostly stemmed from all the Vietnamese that were trying to hitch a ride out of the country


Posted by: jinn | Aug 21 2021 17:28 utc | 195

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 21 2021 17:08 utc | 194

Lebanon: read somewhere yesterday that the Izzies killed some Hezbollah, and I've been watching for some "confirmation" on that. May or may not be relevant. In any case it is very "hot" there, as you note, and some of the Izzies are not taking Biden's decision well. Idlib is getting "hot" too. And Daraa.

Thanks for the update.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 21 2021 17:49 utc | 196

@ vk #186
It is obvious no POTUS ever will publicly declare the USA was militarily defeated . . .
Do you have some examples of national leaders announcing that they were defeated?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 21 2021 18:06 utc | 197

@ Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 21 2021 18:06 utc | 197

So stop believing everything he says. Why are you insisting on the "withdrawal" lie?

Posted by: vk | Aug 21 2021 18:18 utc | 198

@187 JackRabbit

... The Presidency is the lynch-pin of the Empire. No one becomes President without the consent of the Deep State Empire managers. To see the truth of this, one only needs a cursory look at recent Presidents who have ALL dutifully served the Deep State and the power-elite.

Tom: yes, mostly. Carter. Kennedy. Eisenhower. Nixon. Instances of going off-script occasionally.

... Populist Presidents and candidates like Obama, Sanders, Trump have led their flock to a dead-end. That is not by accident. These populists are establishment stooges.

Tom: Sanders not so much. He moved the needle on Socialism, and set expectations in young folk on an uncomfortable vector. Was he contained? Yes, for now, but if the economy continues to unravel as I expect it will, his candidacy's impacts may be tough to eliminate.


...Kissinger is still relevant because he has many powerful contacts that listen to him. He has long been considered the 'Dean' of the US foreign policy establishment. This "old man that's not kept up" recently traveled to China to meet Xi.

Tom: All you said is so, but its relevance and utility are not clear at all. Did China change course on any subject due to Kissinger's visit? If so, I didn't notice it. And Kissinger holds no cards, and the reason for that is because he helped to gut the U.S.' economy. Hoisted on his own petard. He and his gang were totally outmaneuvered by China.

...You see chaos. I see divide and conquer ... and the need for a strong leader. I expect the Republicans will win the mid-terms and the Presidential election in 2024.

Tom: I agree fully with the divide & conquer assessment. They are masters. I agree also that the Repubs have a good chance to win. And I assert that it makes no difference who wins, the situation is the same, and the Elites can put bip or bop in the poohbah chair, and they are still quite screwed.

The chaos has engendered a lot of rage at the Establishment, "elites" in particular, and it's pretty much taken a war off the table politically. Gonna be tough to gen that one up. People have seen Oz.

Remember your point about mythology and the Divine Right. The divine right to rule has some serious rips in it.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 21 2021 18:34 utc | 199

Hassler@134
..."Then she moves on to paki-bashing"...
Chayes´s point was that the corruption must have two sides - the American side was/is the other side of the corruption, so in that sense she also was bashing the US side. And this facet of the interview was so surprising to me.

Posted by: bystander04 | Aug 21 2021 18:51 utc | 200

« previous page | next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.