Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 17, 2021

Afghanistan - Taliban Press Conference Notes

Notes taken during the just ended Taliban news conference (video, Pashtun+English overvoice) today held by Taliban spokesman Zabihullah.

- Starts with a Koran recitation congratulating the victorious and another one on unity.
- We had legitimate right to liberate the country.
- Pardoning all who have fought against us.
- We want no external or internal enemies.
- Strong Islamic and inclusive government.
- No Talib casualties in Kabul.
- Assures security in Kabul.
- Assures embassies of security.
- We want no chaos or inconvenience in Kabul.
- Confirms Talib only went into Kabul for security on streets. Rioters, thieves wanted to abuse Taliban name to search houses etc.
- Assures security for all neighboring countries.
- Assures international community that no country will be harmed from Afghan soil.
- Rights for women within framework of Sharia. Education, working etc allowed.
- Will build infrastructure for Afghan economy.
- Asks international community to contribute.
- Assures media activity. Can continue to report. But nothing against Islamic values. Should be impartial. Shall critique Talib work so Talib can improve.
- Media shall not work against national values or unity of the nation.

Questions round:


Q Aljazeerah:
About women.

Talib:
Women key part of society. Will work with them. Within framework of Islam.

Q:
Security of contractors, translators who worked for U.S., others etc.?

Talib:
We assure that all have been pardoned. No revenge. We don't want them to leave. We need their talents. Nobody will be interrogated or will have their houses searched.
All soldiers who have been fighting against us are pardoned.

Q Tolonews:
Pardoning?

Talib:
Everyone is pardoned. Harm was done by Talib due to the war. Assures that such will no longer happen.

Q:
About riots, thieves reports?

Talib:
We had to intervene in Kabul to stop that. Will disarm such people. Will bring back services.

Q:
?

Talib:
Negotiations took place in Doha for 18 month. But previous government sabotaged them and had plans for another six month war.
We have instructed everybody to not enter other people's house. Government formation will soon happen and things will then be clear.

Q:
?

Talib:
There will be difference in what Talib did 24 years ago in government and what it will do in future.
More developed now.

Q:
a. Government formation? b. Borders?

Talib:
a. Ongoing.

b. Borders are secured by Talib. No smuggling allowed.

...

Q:
?

Talib:
We have not one case of murders in provinces since we rule. Currently one kidnapping case. These will stop too.

Q:
Narcotics ?

Talib:
We will assure that narcotics will end. Lots of our youth use narcotics. From now on Afghanistan will be narcotics free. International help needed for alternative crops.

Q:
?

Talib:
We will have a strong government based on Islamic values. Still consulting on it. Will be inclusive.
Women will be able to work.

Q:
Foreign fighters in Afghanistan?

Talib:
Afghan soil will not be used against other countries. People who want to do that are not allowed on our ground.

Q:
Can women still work in the media?

Talib:
Everyone will be able to work. New government will issues laws regulating various fields.

Q:
Contacts with Abdullah, Hekmatyar, Karzai?

Talib:
Communicating with them. Who wants to serve the nation will not be ignored. Inclusive government.

Q:
International relations?

Talib:
Want to have good relations with all.

END

Posted by b on August 17, 2021 at 15:50 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Hat Tip to Vato from the previous thread to his alerting me to Hudson's essay on Biden's speech from yesterday. Hudson blasted Biden in a manner no BigLie Media pundit's capable of:

"After Carter, George W. Bush and Barack Obama funded Al Qaeda (largely with the gold looted from destroying Libya) to fight for U.S. geopolitical aims and oil in Iraq and Syria. The Taliban for its part fought against Al Quaeda. The real U.S. fear therefore is not that they may back America’s Wahabi foreign legion, but that they will make a deal with Russia, China and Syria to serve as a trade link from Iran westward.

"Biden’s second myth was to blame the victim by claiming that the Afghan army would not fight for 'their country,' despite his assurances by the proxies whom the U.S. installed – that they would use U.S. money to build the economy. He also said that the army did not fight, which became obvious over the weekend.

"The police force also did not fight. Nobody fought the Taliban to 'defend their country,' because the U.S. occupation regime was not 'their country.' Again and again, Biden repeated that the United States could not save a country that would not 'defend itself.' But the 'itself' was the corrupt regime that was simply pocketing U.S. 'aid' money....

"So all that Biden’s message meant to most Americans was that we would not waste any more lives and money fighting wars for an ungrateful population that wanted the U.S. to do all the fighting for it.

"President Biden could have come out and washed away the blame by saying: 'Just before the weekend, I was told by my army generals and national security advisors that it would take months for the Taliban to conquer Afghanistan, and certainly to take control of Kabul, which supposedly would be a bloody fight.' He could have announced that he is removing the incompetent leadership engrained for many years, and creating a more reality-based group.

"But of course, he could not do that, because the group is the unreality-based neocon Deep State. He was not about to explain how 'It’s obvious that I and Congress have been misinformed, and that the intelligence agencies had no clue about the country that they were reporting on for the last two decades.'"

While Hudson rightfully blasted Biden, his wrath is even more evident in his condemnation of the continued attempt to keep the Establishment Narrative alive:

"But instead President Biden doubled down on what his neocon advisors had told him, and what they were repeating on the TV news channels all day: The Afghan army had refused to fight 'for their country,' meaning the U.S.-supported occupation force, as if this was really Afghan self-government.

"The media are showing pictures of the Afghan palace and one of the warlord’s office. I did a double-take, because the plush, wretched-excess furnishings looked just like Obama’s $12 million McMansion furnishings in Martha’s Vineyard.

"Obama officials are being trotted out by the news spinners. On MSNBC, John Brennan warned Andrea Mitchell at noon that the Taliban might now back Al Qaeda in new destabilization and even use Afghanistan to mount new attacks on the United States. The message was almost word for word what Americans were told in 1964: 'If we don’t fight the Vietcong in their country, we’ll have to fight them over here.' As if any country has an armed force large enough to conquer any industrial nation in today’s world.

"The whole cast of America’s 'humanitarian bombing' squad was there, including its harridan arm, the Democratic Party’s front organizations created to co-opt feminists to urging that Afghanistan be bombed until it treats women better. One can only imagine how the image of Samantha Power, Madeline Albright, Hillary Clinton, Susan and Condoleezza Rice, not to mention Indira Gandhi and Golda Maier, will make the Taliban want to create its own generation of ambitious educated women like these."

I'm thankful that Dr. Hudson devoted his precious time to watching what Biden said and what BigLie media portrayed. He wrote much more than I copy/pasted and I hope barflies will read his entire text. Hudson's more than correct for calling out Biden's Blame the Victim speech, which is actually a USA norm domestically as well--blame the underprivileged for their plight at being underprivileged--an epithet from the Puritan past and Neoliberal present.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 17 2021 21:58 utc | 101


Caitlan J. goes to town on that despicable Hague fugitive George W Bush mouthing off, in a very good essay of hers with impressive links as well to back up some main points:

- the poor Afghanis under the US occupation and bombings were/are the most miserable people in any nation on earth. See Alan Macleod:
https://www.mintpressnews.com/18-years-us-occupation-poll-afghanistan-suffering/263839/

- also after 17 years of bombings, occupation, corruption and theft of their natural and human resources, Afghanistan is/was just about the worst place in the world to be a women. I'm certainly concerned about the status of women (and gay guys etc, but US liberals (including friends of mine) crying now about women is just another Pentagon talking point justifying and calling for more Endless Wars and Occupations. See Time magazine:
https://time.com/5472411/afghanistan-women-justice-war/

Caitlan directly
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/08/17/now-would-be-a-great-time-for-george-w-bush-to-shut-the-fuck-up/

"George W Bush has issued a statement on the situation in Afghanistan, and there are not enough shoes in the world to adequately respond to it....

....This is after all the same man who ordered the disastrous invasion in the first place under the justification of the plot hole-riddled 9/11 narrative after already having decided to oust the Taliban a month before the towers came down. The same man who rejected the Taliban’s offer to turn over Osama Bin Laden in October 2001 if the US would just show proof that he is guilty and end its bombing campaign. The same man who repeatedly rejected Taliban offers to surrender after the invasion began. The same man who initiated decades of lies about what was happening in Afghanistan in order to justify an occupation maintained for power and profit....

....So now, as the nation reverts back to Taliban control after a long and sadistic intermission and many Afghans are so fearful that some fell to their deaths desperately clinging to departing US military planes, it would be a fantastic time for George W Bush to shut the fuck up...."


amen

Posted by: michaelj72 | Aug 17 2021 22:06 utc | 102

@ karlof1 | Aug 17 2021 21:08 utc | 93

Thanks to focus on some valuable points of Islam. An interesting economic doctrine.

Forbidden "Riba" is a little bit more than only financial.

In fact, increasing wealth without personal "work" is unlawful. A full enforcement make capitalist exploitation [Marx/le Capital/Plusvalue] unlawful regarding Sharia.

It's the basis of economic doctrine of Ayatollah Khomeini and Iran !

I don't want to debate this point with VK, he is on Islam too moronic and ignorant. I don't know if it's possible to find in English the book of Maxine Rodinson, Islam et Capitalisme. Good overview [French] on
https://orientxxi.info/lu-vu-entendu/le-coran-le-capitalisme-et-les-musulmans,0568

If barflies really interested, we could exchange opinion. My sources are mostly personal hard-copy, most of them libanese Shia and Iranian. None KSA 😋

Riba in Islam implies an increment in a specific thing. The word is derived from a root meaning increase or growth. Allah, may He be exalted, says (understanding of the importance)

Riba is haram (unlawful) in all of its aspects, as the Prophet Mohammed ﷺ said (Muslim),Allah has cursed the one who consumes riba, the one who gives it, the one who witnesses over it, and the one who writes down the transaction.

Posted by: Rêver | Aug 17 2021 22:06 utc | 103

Gordog,

The dominos are falling quickly, indeed. But think about them as part of a continuum of 20 years of body blows against the Empire:

-- 9/11 (assuming it was really al-Qaeda)
-- Chavez staying in power till his death
-- Mission Accomplished in Iraq
-- Hezbollah's Divine Victory
-- the 2008 economic crisis
-- Palestine's partial recognition at the UN
-- Benghazi
-- Russia's intervention in Syria, and the liberation of Aleppo.
-- Russia securing Crimea and defending Donbass
-- Putin's Munich Speech, leading to the new missile and weapons systems
-- Maduro holding on
-- Iran's missile strikes on US bases
-- Gaza's military and political victory, pointing us to towards the armed liberation of Palestine
-- China's victory over Covid and smack down of US "diplomats"
-- Putin calling NATO's bluff over Ukraine a few months ago
-- the Taliban's rout of the US puppet state, and the expulsion of the US from Central Asia

What can the US add to its column? The coups in Honduras, Brazil, Ecuador and Bolivia? All of which will be reversed, no doubt.

Add it up and the US is experiencing absolute decline in imperial dominance.

And the entire US establishment -- in government and academia -- is exposed as know nothing idiots.

Good days are ahead!

Posted by: Prof | Aug 17 2021 22:09 utc | 104

Many commentators, including a few here, have raised the question of the 'example' the Taliban victory gives to other 'radical' groups.

That's of course a leading question because it assumes this 2021 Taliban is a 'radical' group---and not perhaps something entirely different, along the lines of Iran or Hezbollah.

The REAL question is what this EXAMPLE speaks to the remaining vassals of a declining empire!

Glenn Diesen today puts it well:

While frontline states of a global hegemon can enjoy very favourable conditions, the frontline states of a declining hegemon risk being thrown under the bus.

Much like the former US-backed government in Kabul, the Kurds, Hong Kong, Ukraine, Taiwan and other partners on America’s global frontlines will enjoy less support and could suddenly be abandoned as US power fades and Washington must revert to pragmatism.

https://www.rt.com/russia/532278-afghanistan-future-russian-chinese-dominated/

Which brings us back to dominoes. Syria and Iraq are already mostly home. At some point the US will have no choice but to cut and run again! 😺

Posted by: Gordog | Aug 17 2021 22:09 utc | 105

Thanks b and to the link.

It is a very professional and well rehearsed statement.

Without an auto cue 🙂 they have obviously lthought this through.

The sooner they get women front and centre as representatives and spokespersons and ministers and media the sooner the western imperialist owners of our so called equality of the sexes be made to understand we don’t get to tell anyone else about equal rights. The hubris that is exploding in the MSM about that and even with bloggers who should understand that is breath taking. Time for some humility from our ‘conscience liberal woke elitists’. Hopefully.

Posted by: DG | Aug 17 2021 22:11 utc | 106


My take on the Taliban

1-Taliban 2020 are almost the opposite of the Taliban of the 1990s
2-A victory well deserved. So far, they seem disciplined, inclusive, and tolerant.
3-A camera might have cost you punishment before, now many Talibs have smartphones and take selfies all over the place.
4-Saw a clip of a Talib commander visiting Shia Ashura ceremony and offering help. Back in the days, this particular ceremony was seriously banned.
5- Few Tajik Talibs that were interviewed by local YouTubers were Kabul University students and graduates.
6- The monument of the most revered Hazara figure was blown up in Central Afghanistan today. It remains unclear who was responsible for this.

Most of the Taliban deployed in Northern and Central Kabul are from the Northern outskirts of Kabul and ethnic Tajiks. The hardened Pashtun ones from the South are yet to arrive. If they are like they have been in the last 3 days, they will have 100% support of most Afghans.

With the looming global inflation and food shortages borne of covid issues this coming fall, the Taliban are a blessing in disguise for Afghans as opposed to the very corrupt former govt.


Posted by: Afgun | Aug 17 2021 22:13 utc | 107

Prof @ 104: Excellent recap!

Indeed many W's already in the resistance side of the column, and nothing but L's on the other side!

More on the way! ✊

Posted by: Gordog | Aug 17 2021 22:20 utc | 108

And let's not forget Yemen's heroic resistance and the humiliation of Saudi.

And of course there are other examples, for both sides, but these are the key ones.

I highly recommend the link above from VK -- the analysis of US economic decline by Michael Roberts.

Karlof, please read that article because it is a more theoretically coherent analysis of US and global capitalism than what we get from Hudson. The problem isn't just finance vs industry. It's the contradictions of capitalism as a system of commodity production for profit -- and these contradictions encompass all elements and factions of capital (both finance and industry), and can't be resolved without socialism.

Lots of other great insights here.

What will be the next domino to fall? What stupid mistake will the US (or Israel) make next?

Posted by: Prof | Aug 17 2021 22:29 utc | 109

The problem with West´s reliability is that in harsh contrast with the Taliban, they are fundamentalist of the religion of money, as the shameful escape by the US and its puppet Afghan president with all Afghan reserves so manifestly showed...

Who would trust the US, or the Britons for that matter, to guard their reserves anymore?

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 17 2021 22:35 utc | 110

Karlof1 quoted Hudosn

"George W. Bush and Barack Obama funded Al Qaeda (largely with the gold looted from destroying Libya)"
_____________________________________________________________
About $1 billion in Libyan gold disappeared as a result of the 2011 NATO destruction of Libya. Gaddafi transferred it out of the country before he died. Where it went has not been made public.
How can Hudson blame that on George W. Bush? Or even Obama?
Hudson would be lot more believable if he did not constantly make up facts to support the arguments he is promoting.

Posted by: jinn | Aug 17 2021 22:53 utc | 111

Asha you are so right, and that was true throughout the Cold War and maybe even more so now! The US imperial structure, when analyzed as a social network, reveals a class structure. It is supported, in the periphery and in fact everywhere, by ruling classes and the rich. The ultimate fear of the empire is for the class relations of imperialism to be exposed and then crushed by popular revolt!

Posted by: Prof | Aug 17 2021 22:57 utc | 112

vk #34

In any society, young male population is the most valuable asset.

Seriously?

My daughter and her friends would challenge that one and likely assert equality (at least);)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 17 2021 22:58 utc | 113

@Posted by: Prof | Aug 17 2021 22:29 utc | 109

IMO the EU is rip to fall as domino as soon as its member states fall themselves once the population awakes to the damage, and plunder, they have inflcited on them since decades, but most definitely through the past two years...

As the US keeps milking EU states, I bet the EU will fall totally dry and runied before the US falls definitively and gets without "partners"....

Total chaos, misery and hunger will follow, I expect not be here for when the shit starts to hit the fan...
I am losing links to this society as I talk...after witnessing how a great part walked willingly like sheeps to the slaughterhouse..
There is almost nobody whom I respect anymore in this part of the planet....

Posted by: Asha K. | Aug 17 2021 22:58 utc | 114

Islam is a religion. That's its limit. There is no such a thing as an Islamic economic or socio-political system; the Taliban will have to choose between capitalism and socialism; between parliamentary, monarchy, republic etc. etc. What it cannot choose is to rule a nation-state on the Quran alone - that cannot happen and will never happen.

There are as many variants of Islam as there are of Christianism or Judaism. It is absolutely no different from them. They can be as secular as they can (e.g. Assad) or as reactionary as they can (e.g. Wahabbism). In the middle, there is a sea of factions you can choose as you were in a Walmart.

--//--

I'm not ready to jump the gun on the "domino" hypothesis many here have been raising.

I think it is more a scenario of "law of the averages": the USA is, by far, the luckiest empire to ever rise in History (even the Romans had to endure the horrors of the Punic Wars, specially the second one). It had a 250 years of sheer extreme good luck on its side. A lot of historians like to state that one of the constants of American history has been good luck; I like to joke that, with the Irish, the Americans also imported their good luck.

Well, we know luck doesn't exist. There's a material world, and, with it, its upper and lower limits. The American good luck was bound to end sometime; that's a statistical reality. That may be the case now, it doesn't necessarily mean the American Empire is collapsing.

Or, it may well be both: a return to the average and the collapse of the Empire. Both hypotheses are not exclusive to each other.

Posted by: vk | Aug 17 2021 23:01 utc | 115

VK won't 'jump the gun' on the domino hypothesis...until there is a mad dash for the AIRPORT! 😹

Posted by: Gordog | Aug 17 2021 23:11 utc | 116

Biden’s Approval Ratings Hit Lowest of Presidency Following Taliban Takeover - Polls

An imperator who doesn't win any wars is not an imperator. It is what it is.

--//--

Germany admits its clandestine/intelligence network in Afghanistan was wiped out:

Germany suspends economic aid to Afghanistan, media reports citing minister

--//--

A lot of war trophies for the Taliban.

‘Fair Amount’ of US Defense Equipment Has ‘Fallen’ Into Hands of Taliban, White House Adviser Admits

Could build a museum.

--//--

Biden Admitted US War in Afghanistan Isn’t Really Ending - It’s Becoming a Somalia-Like Drone War

The headline is a little bit of clickbait by Sputniknews. Biden's quote was taken out of context.

If the Taliban do their homework, it won't become a Somalia. It is geographically in a much more contested area between different powers, in a place much more difficult for the American Empire - which is a Thalassocracy - to reach (landlocked).

But the main reason is that the Taliban can strike a deal with Russia and China and install the Russian famous anti-aircraft, anti-missile systems. The USA will be able to cause some harassment for some decades, but it won't matter in the great scheme of things.

Posted by: vk | Aug 17 2021 23:25 utc | 117

It's fitting the freefall of Kabul 20 years after the freefall of the WTC was, after all, a 'failure of intelligence' as absolutely no one in the US government saw it coming.

Posted by: gottlieb | Aug 17 2021 23:40 utc | 118

karlof1 | Aug 17 2021 21:58 utc | 101


"Biden forfeits his Afghan victory by defending his Deep State advisors."

What a magnificent point-of-view. It is as if MHudson does not have "the box" to think outside of.


Posted by: chu teh | Aug 17 2021 23:49 utc | 119

Since the Saker has banned my comments merely and merrily for being a Catholic, I 'll start to comment a few things here and elsewhere: "Angela Merkel added that, in Afghanistan, Germany could not act autonomously. It all depended on decisions taken in the U.S.." Merkel press conference
FURTHER PROOF THAT GERMANY IS AN OCCUPIED STATE SINCE WW2!

Posted by: Davidoff | Aug 18 2021 0:08 utc | 120

Russia and China must be happy with how things are unfolding. We might even think, it's all happening according to their most optimistic plans (discussed recently with Taliban leadership for implementation)...

When Putin and Biden met in Switzerland, also met 400 officials from US and Russia. Actions Biden has signed off on and spoken about will be heavily mindful of Russian "suggestions".

Iraq and Syria, soon?

Posted by: tucenz | Aug 18 2021 0:29 utc | 121

Reigning in the media puts them above the US intelligence wise

Posted by: Jezabeel | Aug 18 2021 0:33 utc | 122

I join you, karlof1, in your hat tip to vato @ 101, as the essay by Prof. Hudson is a worthy read, last thing I read last night. Thank you for providing excerpts.

I agree, the entire text is powerfully presented and deserves a full read.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 18 2021 0:41 utc | 123

"It's a concern but I think fairness calls for not holding Afghanistan to higher standards than other countries in the region, ex. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, etc."
- Canadian Cents  @38

And the United States as well. Bizarre.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Aug 18 2021 1:10 utc | 124

@ gottlieb| Aug 17 2021 23:40 utc | 118


the freefall of the WTC was, after all, a 'failure of intelligence' as absolutely no one in the US government saw it coming.

You so sure of that?

Posted by: corvo | Aug 18 2021 1:11 utc | 125

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Aug 17 2021 17:47 utc | 33


U.S. Freezes Afghan reserves held in U.S. largely IMF aid.

There is a smorgasbord of high value candidate hostages hanging out around the Kabul airport, if the Taliban feel strongly about the money.

Alternatively, they could just view it as payment in full for the excellent military equipment left behind ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 18 2021 1:13 utc | 126

@126 What do they need the military equipment for? The war is over. Dollars would be more use.

Posted by: dh | Aug 18 2021 1:19 utc | 127

Just read with absolute delight Michael Hudson's take on the debacle.

WOW! Dr Hudson wields a mean scalpel of TRUTH to power!

He has totally ripped to shreds the entire delusional establishment and their disneyland narrative.

Best turn of phrase: the 'harridan arm of the humanitarian bombing squad'! ✊

Posted by: Gordog | Aug 18 2021 1:23 utc | 128

Posted by: corvo | Aug 18 2021 1:11 utc | 125

said with a wink and nod...:)

Posted by: gottlieb | Aug 18 2021 1:24 utc | 129

Prof @104 I agree with Gordog @108; excellent summation. Couple what you enumerated with the same "color revolution" type policies now being employed internally with greater vigor, and we'd all be well advised to "fasten [our] seatbelts. It's gonna be a bumpy night."

Thanks for the hard work b, and I hope the stomach's feeling better.

Posted by: robjira | Aug 18 2021 1:28 utc | 130

I have read the Hudson piece now and he does create some colorful words along the way. Below is a quote from the piece that has the term grabitizers in it.

"
Delay, delay, delay. That is always the stance of grabitizers refusing to see the resistance building up, hoping to take what they can get for as long as they can – with the “they” being the military-industrial complex, the suppliers of mercenary forces and other recipients of the money that Mr. Biden curiously says that we spent “in Afghanistan.”

The reality is that not much of this $3 trillion actually was spent there. It was spent on Raytheon, Boeing and other military hardware suppliers, on the mercenary forces, and placed in the accounts of the Afghan proxies for the U.S. maneuvering to use Afghanistan to destabilize Central Asia on Russia’s southern flank and western China.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 18 2021 1:42 utc | 131

fyi Many thanks for these Notes b, (and everything else found here and nowhere else) most helpful.

Here's Yves Engler on 'Canada's disaster in Afghanistan'

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/canadas-disaster-in-afghanistan

"In 'A Line in the Sand: Canadians at War in Kandahar', Captain Ray Wiss praised Canadian troops as 'the best at killing people'. On numerous occasions the Western press reported on Canadian troops killing Afghan civilians..."

Hopefully this helps alleviate the still too widely held 'nice Canada' mythology.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Aug 18 2021 1:44 utc | 132

For all of this caterwauling over the Taliban and Sharia law if China is able to help them develop their mineral wealth, how would they be different from the Saudis?

I'm referring to the 'they hate women' angle, not the 'they are terrorists' angle.
We were willing to do business w/the Saudis for decades while they were (and are) very backward in their treatment of women as well as political prisoners.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Aug 18 2021 1:57 utc | 133

@101, 119, 129, 131

Yes, pointed piece by Hudson.

US apparenyly trying to lock Afghanistan out of the western financial system will cement their integration into the Eurasian group, which was not entirely certain otherwise

Posted by: ptb | Aug 18 2021 2:01 utc | 134

I have no reason to doubt that the Taliban mean what they say. I have doubts on whether they will be allowed to achieve all or even a substantial part of what they say for obvious reasons, that is, it would make other imperial vassals wonder if they might do better without the Imperialist States' occupation. I now that Amerikastan has already stolen Afghan money deposited in Amerikastan just like they stole Iranian (which they eventually returned, almost 40 years later) and (via their Brutish puppet) Venezuelan gold. I also note that Amerikastan has still not said whether they admit that the fled puppet (and US citizen) Ashraf Ghani is no longer the president of Amerikastan. Since all Afghan borders are now under countries that will most likely not permit Amerikastan to deploy terrorists to destroy Afghanistan, one can imagine a sanctions regime like with Cuba (where countries trading with Afghanistan will face sanctions) allied with a lying propaganda campaign like with Saddam Hussein's "WMDs", Assad's "gas attacks", Gaddafi's "viagra rape gangs ", etc. I already saw signs of the propaganda campaign firming yesterday on twitter where to now it is very crude and unimaginative (for instance, shots of a random crowd at a football stadium being called a crowd watching executions at a cricket stadium(, but as the stunned Amerikastani propaganda apparatus climbs off the floor it will get more inventive.

The Taliban has an unenviable choice; if they leave the uktraconservative rural areas alone, then those rural areas, which have always lived like that (no public visibility of women, hardly any schools, no female education) will be cited as "proof of Taliban brutality". If they try to get those village areas to modernise then they alienate their core support base. We will see how they manage it.

Either way the Taliban have scored a huge anti imperialist victory, which must still be sending shock waves through the Amerikastani vassalsphere. The Modi regime, for example, which assiduously put all its geopolitical eggs in the Amerikastani basket, must be frantic at the realisation that Modi's master Bidet won't come running to help if, for escape, China rants to further provocation by the genocidal Gujarati gangster government of Narendrabhai Damodardasbhai Modi.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 18 2021 2:01 utc | 135

Asha K, I agree with you. It is a bit much to watch US commentators waxing indignant about their forecast oppression of the Taliban, while ignoring, for instance, the draconian apartheid rules decreed in NY City just yesterday, banning the unclean from entering almost every place in the city.
We should add the descriptor the United States of Hypocrisy to the terms coined by Gore Vidal-United States of Amnesia and Pepe Escobar-The Empire of Chaos.
I plan on making a head covering to wear the next time they decree that our airways be covered when we leave the house. Why stop there? I feel that a complete head covering with small opening for my eyes would make more of a statement.
In Australia the authorities have decreed that no one should talk to their neighbors. The US banned parties, (for the lower classes), holidays and church-going.
Breaking the bonds between humans is also what the US did in Afghanistan, targeting weddings, funerals and jirgas to make Afghans afraid to get together with family and tribal members.
Now the Afghans have taken back their country. Will Americans?

Posted by: wagelaborer | Aug 18 2021 2:04 utc | 136

Christian J. Chuba 133

R2P enthusiasts are a bit upset. I can't help but think about how various social and dress codes differ from culture to culture. From hunter gather types who only dress for adornment or protection from the elements to the fully covered Muslim women. Many cultures took same sex types in their stride neither outlawed nor promoted, the abrahamic tribes outlawing it but then in the western tribes promoting it.

For a fair society, I guess we need to look at what we are as hunter gatherers.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 18 2021 2:16 utc | 137

Come to think of it, the men of the hebrew tribe must've had a pretty bad experience when they visited Sodom and Gomorrah.

Early Muslims? Fully covered women? Must've been a lot of adultery back in the day. Or perhaps plunder for a raiding party?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 18 2021 2:25 utc | 138

@ Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Aug 18 2021 1:57 utc | 133

Mineral resources exploitation is not the panacea many here have been touting. Mongolia thought the same as you and, so far, it didn't result in any economic miracle (and is causing many environmental headaches).

Unless you have unparalleled resources of many key minerals and are a very tiny country, mineral extraction will not solve your national economic problems, even if you exploit all of it with your own capital.

Posted by: vk | Aug 18 2021 2:29 utc | 139

It is time for Russia to stop indulging in hypocritical buffoonery, and recognises Taliban, and do a away with moronic claptrap like 'designated terrorist group in Russia', After all it hosted Talibs in Moscow on November 9, and keeps it Embassy running in Kabul. UN designates them terrorists , but UN never been anything credible, always tool of imperial powers!

Posted by: Grishka | Aug 18 2021 2:34 utc | 140

RE vk | Aug 17 2021 23:01 utc | 115

"Islam is a religion. That's its limit. There is no such a thing as an Islamic economic or socio-political system . . ."

Sorry, that isn't correct. Islam is a complete civilizational construct. It is totalitarian in the extreme, and religion is the smallest part of it.

Sixty-four percent of the Koran is political doctrine, dedicated to the elimination of the Kaffir -- that's you and me -- any and all of us who refuse to take the oath and become Muslims.

For example;

Sura 3-32: “Allah loveth not those who reject faith”
Sura 48-20: “Be ruthless to the infidels (kafirs)”
Sura 9-123: 66-9: “Make war on the infidels.”
Sura 9-29: “Fight those who believe not in Allah”
Sura 2-19: “Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them.”

etc, etc, etc . . .

Islam is perfect, universal and eternal, according to the texts. No room for anything or anyone else.

And by the way, speaking of the texts, it is not a good idea to take one's descriptions of what Islam might or might not be, from comments made about Islam by other persons. Islam is in the texts. If it is not in the Koran, the Sira or the Hadith, it is not Islam. If it is in the Koran, the Sira or the Hadith, then it is Islam.

Period.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Aug 18 2021 2:40 utc | 141

The talibans will follow Iran in the implementation of Islamic values. No burka but hijab for women. Inclusion of women in the society. The major difference is the religious hierarchy typical of the shias faith which is absent from the Sunni faith. The religious hierarchy is autonomous et the government is under the religious scrutiny.
In Islamic country with Sunni faith, the supreme guide is the emir or the king. The religious leaders have limited power. They answer to the emir or the king that finances
them . The ruler belongs often to dynasty.
As the talibans are sunnis it is expected they will follow a system similar to gulf countries with the difference that the talibans have no dynasty.
So it would be interesting to see how the emir will be elected. ...
L

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 18 2021 2:45 utc | 142

Grishka 140

Taliban will have to prove itself and I think that will happen. They were tied in with the CIA attack on Chechnya and the Russian federation. Taliban Afghanistan was a very big part of Chechnya 1995 to 2000, most likely up until the US attack on Afghanistan. Plenty of precedent that Putin's word is good. Chechnya, Syria, and now Iran becoming full member of SCO.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 18 2021 2:45 utc | 143

If it is up to the UNSC to remove the Taliban from a terrorist list, we could be waiting for a while. I can think of three reasons why, France.UK.US. There is a lot of mischief they can cause.

The west having "lost" Afghanistan is likely to behave like spoilt children. Sanctions, freezing assets and other measures to hinder the new government are likely. I propose that the new leadership in charge of Afghanistan should announce that Juan Gerardo Guaidó Márquez is the new President and offer to buy spare parts for all the military kit left behind. Fake leaders and arms purchases, that should at least sooth some poor souls in the west. /sarc

Posted by: Tom | Aug 18 2021 2:49 utc | 144

@ Posted by: AntiSpin | Aug 18 2021 2:40 utc | 141

What you say is only true for systems from feudalism backwards. But that logic is true for every religion, not just Islamism.

Posted by: vk | Aug 18 2021 2:53 utc | 145

@144 I was thinking they should auction off all the HUMVs and helicopters before they start needing spare parts. Perhaps they could put them om eBay. /more sarc.

Posted by: dh | Aug 18 2021 3:06 utc | 146

@141 Antispin

Your comment indicates that you are completely unaware of the field of Islamic jurisprudence, or fiqh, which consists of the rulings of Islamic jurists on social, moral, and political questions, using the Quran and previous scholarly interpretations/consensus, as well as ignorant of the importance that such rulings have on politics in the Islamic world. For example, Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani's 2014 fatwa against ISIS, which led to a mass popular mobilization that defeated ISIS militarily in Iraq, and organized itself as the Popular Moblization, which is today one of the most powerful organizations in Iraq.

Islamic jurisprudence is an extremely significant field of study historically and in the modern day, and treating Islam as a static doctrine that is incapable of adapting itself to changing circumstances is very foolish.

Posted by: Peltast | Aug 18 2021 3:20 utc | 147

I'm most interested to see how the Taliban society would proceed from here on.

This could be the first country that says no to westernization.

Posted by: Smith | Aug 18 2021 3:25 utc | 148

Also, your characterization of Islam as irreconcilable with other religions is also foolish. If Islam demands the extermination of non-believers, why would Islamic society develop jizya, the tax historically levied on non-Muslims living under Islamic law?

Posted by: Peltast | Aug 18 2021 3:25 utc | 149


Quran + hadiths. Hadiths of Mohammad's followers and hadiths of Mohammad's family. Or so I've been told

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 18 2021 3:40 utc | 150

Smith | Aug 18 2021 3:25 utc | 148 "This could be the first country that says no to westernization."

Far from the first. In recent history a number have and all were destroyed until Russia's intervention in Syria.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 18 2021 3:47 utc | 151

@148 Would that include saying no to things like cars, planes, electricity and cellphones. Or are some Western innovations OK?

Posted by: dh | Aug 18 2021 3:53 utc | 152

This sounds almost to good to be true

Posted by: m | Aug 18 2021 3:57 utc | 153

Looks like the propaganda machine is already winding up.

Less than half of Afghanistan's population is literate, much less versed in the language of the arch-imperialists (which is why interpreters were such useful assets during the occupation). It should be obvious that women marching around with signs almost exclusively in English are less "protesters pressuring the government to reform" and more "agitators performing in front of the camera for propagandists".

Posted by: Sid Victor Cattoni | Aug 18 2021 4:08 utc | 154

@154 That will get top billing on the BBC tomorrow.

Posted by: dh | Aug 18 2021 4:28 utc | 155

@ 128 gordog... thanks for the link to hudsons overview on afgan and more... i liked this quote below...it sums up the view on russia, china and a whole lot more where you have an intel agency pushing an agenda which has nothing to do with reality...

"But of course, he ( biden) could not do that, because the group is the unreality-based neocon Deep State. He was not about to explain how “It’s obvious that I and Congress have been misinformed, and that the intelligence agencies had no clue about the country that they were reporting on for the last two decades.”

@ 155 dh.... does anyone follow the bbc anymore?? is this the quickest way to the dumbing down of the british people? seems like it...

Posted by: james | Aug 18 2021 4:50 utc | 156

Ominous signs on the horizon:


According to the reports, the forces of Vice President Amrullah Saleh have recaptured the Charikar district in Parwan province, north of Kabul, from the Taliban.

“The fighting is now going on in the Panjshir area,” the source said.

10 000 troops under the command of General Abdul-Rashid Dostum are currently being sent to the region.

Source:

https://southfront.org/afghan-vp-saleh-declares-presidency-organizes-resistance/

Unless Russia, China and Iran want to see their chances of a stable Afghanistan slip out of their fingers for the next 40 years, they're going to have to come in strongly on the side of the Mujaheddine...

My prediction is that the US will certainly support Salehs troops with air strikes and special forces, within the coming few days.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 18 2021 4:55 utc | 157

‘US officials: Taliban will not have access to Afghan reserves held in the US‘
https://thecradle.co/Article/news/1095

The Americans have humiliated themselves so of course the Taliban must be punished for that.

Posted by: Antibody | Aug 18 2021 5:39 utc | 158

Arch B, 157: this is a nothingburger. A psyop arranged with western media.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9901029/Still-fighting-Afghan-vice-president-rally-anti-Taliban-forces-Panjshir.html

They're on a remote mountaintop, and there's a handful of clowns with one old Mi17 helo.

But this asshat still has an internet connection so he can tweet, lol. Btw, he was the CIA's guy in the Ghani regime.

Expect a lot more psyops as the propaganda operation fires up. They were momentarily stunned, but will be cranking out the bullshit 24/7 soon enough. 😸

Posted by: Gordog | Aug 18 2021 5:45 utc | 159

Posted by: Gordog | Aug 18 2021 5:45 utc | 161


this is a nothingburger. A psyop arranged with western media.

That was my first thought, however precedents in Libya, Syria, Iraq, etc. lead me to think that the U.S might take this teacup storm and manufacture a real one out of it.

You know these are the reality benders, the people who believe:


"We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

In any case, I hope you're right.


Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 18 2021 5:52 utc | 160

Arch, of course the US would love to do something, but what can they do?

They're hemmed in at the airport, and only by the grace of the Talib. They've got nothing. Literally.

Besides, their main worry is crowds on the runway and climbing on planes, giving the pilots headaches.

This little speck of a mountain redoubt was left to be by the Talib, since it's just a handful of clowns. Not worth even going up there to arrest them, lol!

They'll come down soon enough when they get good and hungry.

Posted by: Gordog | Aug 18 2021 6:04 utc | 161

Thanks Afghun
Would you know what is represented on the big painting in the Kabum presidential palace under wich the al Jazeera journalist had the Talibans seat (imitating Jesus at the Cena, even more so when he asked the young Taliban to seat in the middle instead of the older bearded one)

And any news of Bagram?

Posted by: Mina | Aug 18 2021 6:09 utc | 162


war-criminal and fugitive from justice at The Hague, Condoleezza Rice, writing an 'opinion piece' in the WA Post (which I won't link to)

https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1427799713416458246
Judd Legum@JuddLegum

"Condoleezza Rice says 20 YEARS wasn’t enough time in Afghanistan. Just a few more decades and it would have worked....."


bwaaaahahahaha!!

I can imagine how many countries in the world I could totally 'Green' with 2 TRILLION dollars! and that amount doesn't even include all the future interest on $$ borrowed and returning vet costs.
Empire is pure ecocide, corruption and waste.


Posted by: michaelj72 | Aug 18 2021 6:39 utc | 163

Antispin @87:

Took me like 20 seconds to find what the word actually menas:

"Taqiya or Taqiyya ( Arabic: تقیة ‎ taqiyyah, literally "prudence, fear") is a precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief and practice in the face of persecution."

Please do some research before posting.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 18 2021 6:57 utc | 164

Gordog @95:

Probably. Iraq and Syria up next.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 18 2021 7:00 utc | 165

Charge of the 1st Taliban Tank Army

American military analysts estimated that it would take the Taliban 90 days to take Kabul. Their estimate was based on the belief, that it would be very difficult for Taliban to move their tank divisions through the Afghan mountain passes. But unknown to them the Taliban had reached a deal with Qatar. The Qatar Emiri Air Force would provide the Taliban with an armada of US-made Boeing C-17 Globemasters and quickly move the Taliban heavy armor from Mazar-i-Sharif and Kandahar to the gates of Kabul.

No, not really...

In the fake Western media we keep hearing that Kabul fell because of the rapid advance of the Taliban forces. This is all bullshit. No Talib ever advanced faster than a Toyota Hi-Lux on fifth gear. In reality the Taliban advancement was nothing more than the total and simultaneous collapse of the American occupation regime. The "Taliban" rode to Kabul on a wave of popular revolution.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 18 2021 7:01 utc | 166

the Taliban sound very reasonable. over here the MSM is fawning over people like George Bush Jr. and Paul Wolfowitz, like anybody should gaf about their opinion. I hope this monkeywrenches Empire plans on Cuba, Iran and Venezuela.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 18 2021 7:09 utc | 167

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 18 2021 7:01 utc | 170


No Talib ever advanced faster than a Toyota Hi-Lux on fifth gear.

The Taliban understood that the fastest way to move is to already be there (in advance).
This was engineered completely by them, including the collapse of the puppet regime.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 18 2021 7:18 utc | 168

Rust never sleeps, vice president Saleh plus the son of an old star put together 10K fighters so the party can go on. Empire does not give up that easily.

Posted by: Paco | Aug 18 2021 7:32 utc | 169

re: former or maybe still VP Saleh

Maybe that's where the other half of the US troops went. Would explain their absence from the airport at least.

I guess if you have Taliban 2.0, you have Northern Alliance 2.0. Hopefully they take the hint from last week's developments and send more frequent cash pallets. Otherwise it will be a short adventure, with whatever northern statelet they carve out also defecting in a few years' time.

FWIW Panjshir seems right in the path of a possible road connection from Kabul to the China border. Not sure if that is all that strategic compared to some of the other transit routes tho.

Posted by: ptb | Aug 18 2021 8:18 utc | 170

Gordog #161

But this asshat still has an internet connection so he can tweet, lol. Btw, he was the CIA's guy in the Ghani regime.

Expect a lot more psyops as the propaganda operation fires up. They were momentarily stunned, but will be cranking out the bullshit 24/7 soon enough. 😸

The yankees need a Guaido in waiting so they can gouge at the Afghan wound and never give the cash back that they have in the USA. Nothing more and nothing less. I trust the honest Afghanis know what to do here.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 18 2021 8:18 utc | 171

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Aug 17 2021 17:36 utc | 29

As soon as the Taliban took over, FOX immediately started pushing out stories about the Taliban going door to door and grabbing young girls for child brides as spoils of war and looking for collaborators to punish.

The correspondents IN Kabul did not report seeing anything like that. Does anybody know what is actually going on?

NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel arrived in Kabul on Sunday. I have been following him on Twitter.

So far he has not provided a single piece of information, apart from the obvious fact that Kabul still has Internet and the Taliban have not cut his head off. His broadcasts consist of rehashed anti-Taliban propaganda mixed in with videos from social media.

As far as I know, his broadcasts could have been done at the CNN studios in "Baghdad".

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 18 2021 8:20 utc | 172

George W - shut the f up says Caitlin Johnson in a mighty fine rant

Just in case it has not yet appeared here.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 18 2021 8:27 utc | 173

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 18 2021 5:52 utc | 162

"We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” In any case, I hope you're right.

Only literate people can be manipulated, especially those with Internet access. A nation of illiterate peasants is immune to modern psychological operations.


Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 18 2021 8:27 utc | 174

michaelj72 #102

ooops HT to you for the Caitlin post, Thank you.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 18 2021 8:29 utc | 175

Posted by: ptb | Aug 18 2021 8:18 utc | 174


FWIW Panjshir seems right in the path of a possible road connection from Kabul to the China border. Not sure if that is all that strategic compared to some of the other transit routes tho.

The Panjshir Valley links Afghanistan to Xinjiang via the Wakhan corridor.

It is supremely strategic and there are probably no other routes directly from Afghanistan to China outside the Wakhan corridor.

It is also considered an impenetrable fortress and has apparently never been occupied by anyone including the Taliban.

If there is one place NATO/US might imagine they can throw a fly in the ointment, it will be there, right on a potentially major BRI corridor ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 18 2021 8:36 utc | 176

Asha K @114:

I do think you have a point, but "falling" has to be qualified.
Brexit was probably an other Langley project, designed to strengthen 5-eyes and weaken the EU.

And an other failure: left the Britons lonely and confused, pressured from the north by Scottish successionists and from the west by Irish unificationists.

At the same time an increasingly 'assertive' Germany could assume a more marked leadership roll in continental Europe.

So the falling had already started, the end result might well be positive.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 18 2021 8:39 utc | 177

VK @139:

Agreed, dependence on resource extraction is a clear sign of begin a subordinate country. I don't think we should expect to much of the Taliban; Afghanistan is still one of the poorest countries on earth. And their resources make them a continued target of imperialist aggression.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 18 2021 8:48 utc | 178

AntiSpin @141:

Ever read the bible?

"A religion is in it's texts." U a fundamentalist or just very childish?

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 18 2021 8:51 utc | 179

Petri, you are delusional. They exchange videos. Guys like David Copperfield and photoshopped stuff are very popular (as once seen in Syria for the latter).

Posted by: Mina | Aug 18 2021 9:13 utc | 180

Election campaign has started
https://mobile.twitter.com/PanjshirProvin1/status/1427911391860731909

Posted by: Mina | Aug 18 2021 9:16 utc | 181

Posted by: Mina | Aug 18 2021 9:16 utc | 185

The idea that Tajikistan has in some way recognised Saleh as the president of Afghanistan sounds like pure, unadulterated propaganda.

If it is true (unlikely) it would paint Tajikistan as just another banana republic ... oh, wait ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 18 2021 9:20 utc | 182

jinn #111

"George W. Bush and Barack Obama funded Al Qaeda (largely with the gold looted from destroying Libya)"
_____________________________________________________________
About $1 billion in Libyan gold disappeared as a result of the 2011 NATO destruction of Libya. Gaddafi transferred it out of the country before he died. Where it went has not been made public.
How can Hudson blame that on George W. Bush? Or even Obama?
Hudson would be lot more believable if he did not constantly make up facts to support the arguments he is promoting.


So write to him at Hudson's website and query the man. If you think that the USA never used assets stolen from other nations to fund its white or black site operations, tell him so and ask him to substantiate the claim. It is not good enough to just get a free attack on Hudson here without you offer something concrete. Ask him.

What happened to all the stolen money from Venezuela? Iran? etc etc. Do you think it was all spent on Guaido, MEK? The interest earned too? Do you really expect us to believe the USA has been scrupulously honest with all the gold and foreign deposits in its banks? Like the UK has been with Venezuelan gold?

Where is the public accounts record of the Afghanistan opium poppy harvest then? NOTE all under both US and UK administration as they ran the joint with an iron fisted army. Or are you now going to say ... "well the mafia did it or the Russians did it" or what?

When the NSA with its hundreds of interpreters can listen in to every phone call throughout Afghanistan 24/7 then they sure as hell were in control of the opium business and the cash flow. Hudson has spoken at length years ago on the extent to which the USA is totally across the cash flow of global organised crime. Alfred McCoy has written about it too.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 18 2021 9:47 utc | 183

ZH posts the following headline:

"US Treasury Freezes Billions In Afghan Reserves, Depriving Taliban Of Cash"

www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-treasury-freezes-billions-afghan-reserves-depriving-taliban-cash


I think the 'decoded' headline actually reads:

"US Treasury Encourages New Afghan Taliban 2.0 Government to talk with Beijing: China dumps $US fiat paper into Afghanistan in a 'win:win' deal for mineral rights and SCO access to Indian Ocean"

Stupidistan ain't in the Himalayas... It's somewhere between Canada and Mexico.

If that scenario plays out then this is likely the actual historic tipping point for the end of the $usd reserve currency status. The end of empires begin in Afghanistan. Russia is out of the usd$ racket. China must be looking around for a convenient sinkhole before the SHTF. If so, then "Brace! Brace!"... :-/

Posted by: imo | Aug 18 2021 10:10 utc | 184

@ gottlieb| @ 118 the freefall of the WTC was, after all, a 'failure of intelligence' as absolutely no one in the US government saw it coming. <= Maybe the failure proved those not pre-informed were guilty of incompetence, but for intelligence, 911 was a monumental success?

by wagelaborer @ 136 will Americans.. <=in such circumstance which side do you think the military would support? ?

by ptb @ 134 US apparently trying to lock Afghanistan out of the western financial system will cement their integration into the Eurasian group,
<=reveals a principle of defense. Knocking down the cell towers, returning to analogue dial up, person to person use of cash for transactions, might be a cheap defense against outside intrusion: returning to POTS, blocks the external digital world and keeps the local people in touch with its own civilization and out of touch with the external world.


Antispin @ 140 Islam is a complete civilizational construct. It is totalitarian in the extreme, and religion is the smallest part of it. If it is in the Koran, the Sira or the Hadith, then it is Islam.

<=Religions are subject to change.. what makes them stable is propaganda based in histories. Change takes centuries.. how can the world merge the religions into one peaceful universal voice? So everyone can take everyone's else's oath?

The 256 nation states have financial, economic and political domains in one digitally controlled voice. What will it take to merge the religious systems.

Peltast @ 147 points out that the fiqh modernizes behavior in the Islamic world to current conditions.

Jorgen Hassler @ 183 "A religion is in it's texts." U a fundamentalist or just very childish?

Posted by: snake | Aug 18 2021 10:12 utc | 185

The forty year war, or will it be the forever war?

Wish me luck for the battle:

https://youtu.be/dxvf3yUeKLw

Posted by: Paco | Aug 18 2021 10:14 utc | 186

imo @188:

Someone asked what the next stupid move of empire would be, this might be it. As far as I can see – judging from there geographic position and from their level of economic development – there is no need for Afghanistan to be part of the ‘international’ financial system. What on earth would they need that they couldn’t pay in rubles or yen? [We have pickled herring in Sweden, they might like that…]
The answer from the new government should be declaring the 2,7 billion dollar foreign debt odious. Which it probably is, from a legal point of view, at least the public part of it.
That in turn would certainly accelerate the unraveling of the obsolete ‘international’ financial system and curtail Washington’s ability to act even further.

(Biden blames Afghan government troops for not being willing to ‘die for their country. Yeah Bid, how about your own boots on the ground, bree?)

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 18 2021 10:44 utc | 187

Link to the sum somehow disappered...

https://tradingeconomics.com/afghanistan/external-debt-stocks-total-dod-us-dollar-wb-data.html

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 18 2021 10:46 utc | 188

RE: Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 18 2021 9:47 utc | 187

"When the NSA with its hundreds of interpreters can listen in to every phone call throughout Afghanistan 24/7 then they sure as hell were in control of the opium business and the cash flow. Hudson has spoken at length years ago on the extent to which the USA is totally across the cash flow of global organised crime. Alfred McCoy has written about it too."

"Exceptionalists" attempt to evangelise their "prime agency" sometimes known as "hegemony" in order to sustain their coercive social relations, and some ingest this ideology illustrated by the assumptions inherent in "the extent to which the USA is totally accross the cash flow of global organised crime." You reference valid analysts of this phenomena but like in any lateral lateral omniscience is not possible and hence not available.

Reasonably you also don't make references to analyses not in the "public domain" to which you likely will have limited access, and like "the NSA with its hundreds of interpreters” were/are/will be reliant on interpretation/speculation as was the case in Afghanistan, facilitated in part by the beliefs of some in the hegemony of the NSA.

The value of intelligence lies primarily in analysis and strategies implemented there-from, ergo it is a co-operation. Data collection facilititates this on-going process, but data collection is not a substitute for this on-going process, although data collection can aid this on-going process as a function of its being, facilitating/enhancing the beliefs of some in the hegemony of the NSA, thereby performing a similar function to electrified fencing or barbed wire in respect of cattle, and Mr. Pavlov's experiments in respect of dogs, as outlined in Mr. Bulgakov's book The heart of a dog, and emulated in some regard by the opponents in their attempts at “colour revolutions” not limited to Afghanistan for at least the last 100 years.

Consequently many in, and formerly in “The intelligence community”, and many in, and formerly in the “media/politicians cabal/chummery”, will attempt to direct blame onto the “Generals who advised the surge” with likely consequences sketched in MoA - Afghanistan - Chaos Pictures Increase Fallout From U.S. Defeat Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 17 2021 11:19 utc | 200.

Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 18 2021 10:54 utc | 189

Biden’s Afghanistan speech: America’s criminal war ends in debacle
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/08/17/pers-a17.html

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 18 2021 12:11 utc | 190

There is no need to bring a single refugee from Afghanistan to the West. Zero.
Maybe that one gender studies professor they show on TV but besides that, none is too many.

Posted by: northernobserver | Aug 18 2021 12:23 utc | 191

Posted by: northernobserver | Aug 18 2021 12:23 utc | 196


There is no need to bring a single refugee from Afghanistan to the West. Zero.

Of course there is. The West broke it, now the West owns it.

Open the gates wide, I say.

Take them All in.

The West owes them that much, having put so much effort, so many trillions of dollars, so much blood into inserting itself into foreign lands surely it will have no issue inviting their people in?

They loved these people so much, proclaimed so much concern for their rights, fretted about them day and night for decades, proclaimed themselves the champions of freedom.

Let them prove how much they care, let them take all the refugees in ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 18 2021 12:34 utc | 192

Here is the fellow claiming to be the new official president of Afghanistan.

MARTIN SMITH: As the drone war escalated, the United States has had to develop a network of informers on both sides of the border.

AMRULLAH SALEH, Head of Afghan Intelligence 2004-10: Well, we have very close sharing of information with the Americans about targets. But drone operation is a very sensitive, secret U.S. operation. I don’t know much about it.

MARTIN SMITH: [on camera] But your counterparts in the CIA were running these drones.

AMRULLAH SALEH: Right.

MARTIN SMITH: You gave them targets in the tribal areas.

AMRULLAH SALEH: Yes.

MARTIN SMITH: This is human intelligence on the ground?

AMRULLAH SALEH: Yes.

MARTIN SMITH: Inside the tribal areas.

AMRULLAH SALEH: Wherever.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/secret-war/transcript/

Posted by: andy | Aug 18 2021 12:44 utc | 193

Here's an economic development slant on what might be next in Afghanistan. I suggest you get a map of Afghanistan up on your screen as you follow along.

Thesis:
Afghanistan has a chance to build an economy based on major-value-add to intn'l economy. Value-add is based on transport-routes and minerals, mainly copper in the short run.

Context:
Afghanistan has: major copper resources. High-grade ore, lots of it, located a bit south of Kabul. Other mineral resources have been identified, but the copper mine is the big one at the moment. China has a contract to develop the mine. It's ready to go operational.

China has rail-lines in place to within 400 miles of Kabul. There are several roads between China's rail-head at Kashgar and Kabul. Looks like the easiest route is north into Takjikistan and then east to Kashgar.

China has already proposed a north-south rail route linking Kabul to China.

From Wikipedia, (search rail transport afghanistan), we see:

"In September 2010, China Metallurgical Group Corporation (MCC) signed an agreement[53] with the Afghan Minister of Mines to investigate construction of a north-south railway across Afghanistan, running from Mazar-i-Sharif to Kabul and then to the eastern border town of Torkham. MCC was recently awarded a copper mining concession at Mes Aynak which would be linked to this railway. MCC is constructing a 921 km long 1,676 mm (5 ft 6 in) gauge railway line that will link Kabul with Uzbekistan in the north and Pakistan in the east.[54]"


There is a rail line under construction linking Iran and Afghanistan. It terminates in Rohzanak, Afghanistan, which is about 400 miles west of Kabul. Search: "Iran Afghanistan railroad"


There is an existing roadway linking Rohzanak and Kabul. Best-grade route is already selected and parallel truck transport is in place to assist railway construction.

Afghanistan looks like it's the easiest rail link route between western China and Iran. Fewest really nasty mountain ranges to cross. Railroads hate steep grades; must tunnel. Tunnels and ravine-crossing bridges are really expensive.

The world will electrify a great deal in the decades to come. Motors, transmission lines, building wiring plant all uses copper. If you want to industrialize, you need copper. China needs a boat-load of copper.

Belt and Road Initiative. Search for a map, see that there's an existing west-China to Iran link, but it goes well north of Afghanistan, and crosses a few other national borders. Is a more southerly route worth having (easier grades, fewer borders to cross, etc.)

Discussion:

If you were going to execute a project to connect your industrial-export machine to central asia and north africa and you needed a stable source of copper as well, which route would you take?

How would you conduct the political integration work necessary to insure the stability of the turf your line crosses and your source of copper?

What carrot would you offer to the participants?

What standards of performance (behavior) would you require, and test for, from those participants?

Looking at it from Afghanistan's perspective:

What deal would you have to offer China and Iran in order for them to invest as necessary for you to get a stable government stood up so it could actually perform re: stds of performance set out above?

If you were wondering what those seven year's worth of "background conversations" were between Afghanistan and China (and others, of course), I think we've set out a good bit of that discussion agenda right here.

Now that's the mechanical, econ devel view, and it's pretty straight-forward. Then there's the old bugaboos of keeping a bunch of tribes on-track, and defending from the inevitable external-interference game (sabotage and divide-and-conquer, principally). That's the politics.

Politics, because it involves people, is way harder than infrastructure devel.

Finally, I'd expect some construction to start almost immediately. Needs to be visible, have cash flow, and involve lots of manual labor. Roadway and railroad construction is a good candidate, and so is trucking. Got a lot of new trucks available, right? Just need some mods to make them freight trucks, not weapons trucks. China has plenty of trucks. Also need a lot of motor fuel. Who would like to provide motor fuel? Where's the closest refinery and what's the transit route?

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 18 2021 13:15 utc | 194

RE: Posted by: andy | Aug 18 2021 12:44 utc | 198

“Here is the fellow claiming to be the new official president of Afghanistan.
MARTIN SMITH: As the drone war escalated, the United States has had to develop a network of informers on both sides of the border.
AMRULLAH SALEH, Head of Afghan Intelligence 2004-10: Well, we have very close sharing of information with the Americans about targets. But drone operation is a very sensitive, secret U.S. operation. I don’t know much about it.
MARTIN SMITH: [on camera] But your counterparts in the CIA were running these drones.
AMRULLAH SALEH: Right.
MARTIN SMITH: You gave them targets in the tribal areas.
AMRULLAH SALEH: Yes.
MARTIN SMITH: This is human intelligence on the ground?
AMRULLAH SALEH: Yes.
MARTIN SMITH: Inside the tribal areas.
AMRULLAH SALEH: Wherever.”

RE: Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 18 2021 10:54 utc | 194

“The value of intelligence lies primarily in analysis and strategies implemented there-from, ergo it is a co-operation. “

“Consequently many in, and formerly in “The intelligence community”, and many in, and formerly in the “media/politicians cabal/chummery”, will attempt to direct blame onto the “Generals who advised the surge” 
whilst simultaneously seeking to enhance the beliefs of others in the “native” networks available to “The intelligence community” in “theatre”.

As Mr. Baer and his associates confirm, even in the period from 1979 until 1989 in Afghanistan, “US intelligence” rarely had direct access to assets in the field but tended to rely on “assets” introduced by Pakistani sources as authenticated by others misguidedly engaged in matters of “International Socialist Solidarity”, and those of variable efficience secured by bribery facilitating curved balls. These “assets” were in large part dispensed with in 1989 which in “tribal areas” had significant adverse impacts – to extend that to “gave them targets in the tribal areas where some were “guests” - would give rise to even more significant impacts.

“The United States of America” from at least 1942 onwards has followed a doctrine of “carpet bombing” misrepresented as “precision bombing” .

Their “drone warfare campaigns” also wear these cloaks.

Mr. Assange and some others believe that he is on trial for accessing/publishing “war crimes”, and hence that those so engaged would be suitably embarassed/chastised, whilst others analyse the data-streams differently - as evidence of the failure of securing in situ targeting sources, minimising options of “precision bombing”, and increasing reliance on targets of opportunity, thereby resorting to a limited form of “carpet bombing” by default.

Yesterday Mr. Trump attempted to aid the continuance of other's illusions by saying that “High-tec” weapons have fallen into the hands of the Taliban and would be given to the Chinese and the Russians.

Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 18 2021 13:32 utc | 195

Forget all the partisan blame games, finger-pointing, and handwringing about how America "lost" Afghanistan or why the American Hegemon got its ass kicked by some backward peasants armed with rifles, IED, and RPGs.

The ONE TRUE lesson of America's Afghanistan War is this (courtesy of Patrick Armstrong, who is riffing on Michael Ledeen):

"Every now and again, some crappy little country has to pick up the United States and throw it against the wall. It’s the only way Americans will learn to stay at home and attend to their swampy garden. Is this the moment they learn?"

;-)

https://patrickarmstrong.ca/2021/08/16/the-afghanistan-disaster/

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 18 2021 13:50 utc | 196


Uncle Tungsten wrote:

If you think that the USA never used assets stolen from other nations to fund its white or black site operations
_________________________________________________________________
I never said anything like that. You make shit up just like Hudson does.

I am fairly confident that the Bush administration got their funding for Al Qaeda elsewhere and not with the gold looted from destroying Libya, since Libya was destroyed 3 years after Bush left office.

Posted by: jinn | Aug 18 2021 14:22 utc | 197

@ ak74 | Aug 18 2021 13:50 utc | 196:

Learn? Of course not. Learning is for sissies and other people whom God hates.

Posted by: corvo | Aug 18 2021 14:23 utc | 198

Let's stop pretending we care about Afghanistan and go strait to the really interesting subject:

The US is becoming USSR 2.0 by Shao Xia

The reality was not that simple in the USSR, but I agree with the fact that the USA is, in strict geopolitical terms/function, the capitalist version of the USSR. And it was from the very beginning, since the 1920s - the Cold War didn't start in 1945.

--//--

@ Posted by: MagdaTam | Aug 18 2021 13:32 utc | 195

It has nothing to do with this or that military doctrine, but with the plain fact Afghanistan is not in the USA's sphere of influence geographically.

Strategic bombing is effective when you're fighting against another civilization which has a lot of infrastructure and a modern army. You have a lot of valuable targets to choose, which will do a lot of damage to the enemy (e.g. bomb a dam, a factory, an industrial center).

But against primitive enemies, strategic bombing doesn't work that much. They don't have invaluable infrastructure which cannot be replaced after destroyed by bombing. It is that typical Vietnam War scenario, where the USAF spends millions of USDs to destroy one Vietcong wooden bridge that can be replaced in four hours.

That's why the American came up with carpet bombing, which is the premise that, if you bomb every square meter of the enemy, you'll kill your enemy. It is conceptual bombing, doesn't work in reality.

Posted by: vk | Aug 18 2021 14:30 utc | 199

NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel is really pouring it on thick. I never thought I'd see the day where I would praise Clarissa Ward for her professionalism. Richard Engel is clearly spinning a narrative.

I am not looking for affirmation of my beliefs. I just don't like to here story telling from someone who is supposed to be telling me what is actually happening. I an invent my own stories. Engel is really being melodramatic. Is emotion now considered a sign of 'good journalism'?

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Aug 18 2021 14:36 utc | 200

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