Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 12, 2021

U.S. Launches Another Attempt To Regime Change Cuba

Yesterday saw minor protests in Cuba driven by U.S. regime change dollars and by economic problem caused by U.S. sanctions. They were accompanied by a number of newly created accounts on various social media which posted the same slogans over and over again under the #SOSCuba hashtag.

But soon pro-government protesters turned out in larger numbers than the anti-government protesters. Apart from a few scuffles nothing happened and today everything seems to be back to normal.

I consider the whole thing to have been a trial run for some bigger plans. But the operators behind this must feel disappointed. The turnout on the anti-government side was lousy.

The Guardian headlines:

Thousands march in Cuba in rare mass protests amid economic crisis

I doubt that 'thousands' number as pictures and videos, aside from the usual fakes, only showed small demonstrations of dozens to maybe a hundred.

The Guardian piece includes this picture which seems to show quite a number of people.


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The caption says:

Anti-government protesters gather at the Maximo Gomez monument in Havana on Sunday. Photograph: Eliana Aponte/AP

Hmm:

Inaugurated in the mid-1930s, this magnificent monument pays homage to Dominican-born General Máximo Gómez, who became Commander in Chief of Cuba’s Liberation Army during the Wars of Independence.

'Anti-government' protesters at a national independence monument?

And what are these flags of the 26 of July movement doing with 'anti-government' protesters?

The 26th of July Movement (Spanish: Movimiento 26 de Julio; M-26-7) was a Cuban vanguard revolutionary organization and later a political party led by Fidel Castro. The movement's name commemorates its 26 July 1953 attack on the army barracks on Santiago de Cuba in an attempt to start the overthrowing of the dictator Fulgencio Batista.

This is considered one of the most important organizations among the Cuban Revolution.

'Anti-government' protesters?

Really, Guardian? Really???

The dude responsible for the nonsense is quite open about it.

President Biden @POTUS - 15:22 UTC · Jul 12, 2021

We stand with the Cuban people as they bravely assert their fundamental and universal rights, and as they all call for freedom and relief from the tragic grip of the pandemic and from the decades of repression and economic suffering.

Statement by President Joseph R. Biden, Jr. on Protests in Cuba | The White House

Decades of economic suffering in Cuba could be easily ended by the dude above as they are largely caused by 60 years of U.S. sanctions.

This cartoon fits the situation.


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Posted by b on July 12, 2021 at 16:11 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@Posted by: fnord | Jul 13 2021 18:02 utc | 188:

I never called for a US intervention in my country. If US interest aligns with us (cubans) interest so be it. If the US is not in favor of regime change, cubans should still topple, reform, or change their government to improve their lives.

When the US war for independence took place external powers took sides and exerted their influence. In the real world external powers and governments always take sides.

Posted by: Cuban | Jul 13 2021 18:37 utc | 201

i guess some cubans are okay with a usa backed cuban gov't, lol..... i suppose those are the spineless ones cuban is talking about... that includes those cubans living in florida definitely..

Posted by: james | Jul 13 2021 18:40 utc | 202

I have read most of the comments on this thread and especially the ones from @Cuban and the responses.

I have travelled to Cuba since 2000 and have been living here part time for the past few years. Fact of the matter is that Cuban has some legitimate points but grossly misguided with his “let the people decide” rhetoric. What the demonstrators are chanting whether it is “Libertad”or “Patria Y Vida” is a carefully scripted scenario.

US has been brutal with the treatment of this island for 60+ years and only to make an example of them. This island couldn’t possibly be a military threat or an economic danger but probably the biggest ideologic threat to US’s hegemony right on their door step, and @Cuban should be proud of that persistent resistance.

I am here as we speak and I can tell you that demonstrations have not subsided. They are divided between pro-government and anti-Government. They are still going on in many provinces especially in the east. Mostly peaceful today.

People do have legitimate grievances. Lack of basic needs is getting to crisis level, combined with currency issues. The government has been rather incompetent in trying to balance the needs of the people, managing Covid and the currency issue. Food simply cannot be sold in dollar or Euro. That’s not what people earn and it is a complete error on their part. I can see many hotel projects going on while there is no money to feed the people. These projects need to be stopped and the money funneled toward the society. Most of it is foreign money but the little the government is spending should be spent on people’s need.

The average Cuban just wants more economic freedom. They are not particularly interested in changing their system of government. Problem is, they have been spoiled for so many years with lots of government subsidies in every aspect of life, be it, education, health, fuel, food and etc. People want to keep all of that freebies the socialism has to offer and be capitalistic in their working and earnings. Doesn’t quite work like that

However, @Cuban is in a delusional state if he thinks that his country will prosper the minute people decide to change the system to become an American vassal. Their misery will only deepen and it will take a generation or more to have some sense of normality. And exact same scenario that happened to Soviet Union will happen here as well. except that Cuba has no resources to bounce back and no Leader like Putin either. So the only choice is to become slave to IMF and World Bank and bring back the Casinos, United Fruit Company which is exactly what the US wants. More like a revenge.

As for the demonstrations, there is no doubt there is lots of US dollar at play. I noticed a few months ago an influx of American embassy workers where their houses was empty for a long time and now there are people in them. More likely sensing something in the society and the CIA agents going to work. they are taking advantage of the people’s suffering and provoking them. In some of the demonstrations small American flags were seen in the hand of some of people chanting USA USA.

Another factor is the divorce between the younger and older generation. A large percentage of the younger generation want their new cell phones and fancy clothes without any ideals whatsoever, and without any thought of what the future holds. Most are unemployed and live with parents.

Cuba is going through a tumultuous time and if the government doesn’t get its shit together, the US might get their way after all. I am very worried. MOA’s article paints a picture of harmony and a momentary provoked event and that is not accurate. People are truly suffering and it is at crisis level. It doesn’t take much to light this flame.

I just hope the government uses its brain a bit and appeal to Russia, China and Iran for economic help as oppose to sit back, be proud and try to fill peoples plates with ideologic nonsense. If they continue in this path, they will hand the US a victory and change the face of Latin America forever.

I am not a socialist and hate capitalism but I have to tell you that I miss Fidel. A man of power, intellect and charisma. Exactly what is needed now and desperately missing.

Posted by: Alpi | Jul 13 2021 18:45 utc | 203

@200 It's an interesting topic don't you think james? Watching communism and capitalism going head to head. As I've said I went to Varadero about 15 years ago and got bored with buffets and swimming pools pretty fast. So I took a taxi to Havana. That was an adventure in itself .....stopping every few miles to buy a bottle of gas.

Havana is a fascinating place. Lots to see. I was totally baffled by the economic system but impressed with the people and what they've had to deal with.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 18:49 utc | 204

@ 204 dh... yes - it is! i know many canucks who do the resort beach thing with buffets and etc... it sounds extremely boring - just like going on a cruise ship... but i acknowledge some people like this type of holiday! i have never been to cuba, but a few close friends have gone for music and it is a very different experience they partake of... i have also played with some musicians from cuba here on the island - mostly victoria and i get a 2nd hand impression from all of this.. the canuck girls seem to like the cuban guys, lol.. they are typically top notch musicians who migrate here... i know their music schools are top notch and they excel at music...

Posted by: james | Jul 13 2021 18:57 utc | 205

@205 You would love it james. There's a Buena Vista Social Club on every block. I've met people who go to Varadero and think they've seen Cuba.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 19:02 utc | 206

@ dh... that is what everyone i know who has went say! thanks...

Posted by: james | Jul 13 2021 19:03 utc | 207

@max:

The devaluation part of the AlJZ piece is plain wrong: "Since the early 2000s the rates have been 24 CUP to CUC (sell) and 25 CUP to CUC (buy)."

If they aren't referring to the very smal and illegal USD to CUC.

And I think you got the order of devaluation/trouble wrong. Countries mostly deflate their currency because they are in trouble, not the other way around.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jul 13 2021 19:12 utc | 208

I thought there was an unwritten rule to not feed the trolls.

Posted by: Michael Weddington | Jul 12 2021 19:33 utc | 58

Ze problème with 'unwritten' rules, is, that often they cannot be seen.

I'll get me coat.

Posted by: Rolan Le Gargéac | Jul 13 2021 19:12 utc | 209

Los actuales estallidos sociales en Cuba tienen causas endógenas. Son debidos a la durísima realidad que estamos viviendo hoy los cubanos. Por supuesto, esto no quita que el gobierno de los EE.UU. y sus acompañantes estén actuando oportunistamente.
La Covid-19 es una pandemia de preocupación y miedo permanentes inducidos, pues está demostrado que la preocupación y el miedo sostenidos provocan inmunodepresión (ver, por ejemplo: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088915919890544X). A esto habría que sumar los efectos negativos del uso prolongado de tapabocas (mascarillas o como lo llamemos): hipoxia y formación de cultivos de bacterias, del desabasto de alimentos (hambre, para decirlo sin ambages), la falta de medicamentos, pues, por ejemplo, la ausencia de antibióticos en las farmacias es absoluta desde hace un año, la negación de asistencia médica efectiva para todo lo que no sea "Covid" y todo lo que conlleva el aumento de la pobreza para la mayoría.
Conocemos hasta la saciedad cuánta gente está muriendo oficialmente de Covid-19, pero ¿cúanta, aunque sea grosso modo, debido a "combatirla", a los "daños colaterales"? ¿A qué estadísticas van a dar éstos?
Creer, como está haciendo el gobierno cubano, que culpando a los EE.UU. detendrá estos estallidos, sólo demuestra ceguera cómplice en este macabro engaño global, la incapacidad de ver más allá de lo "políticamente correcto", la continuación, en resumen, de políticas suicidas subyugadas al dogma SARS CoV-2 / Covid-19.

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 13 2021 19:30 utc | 210

@max

Here's a better starting point than AlJZ if you want to learn about the monetary history of Cuba:

https://www.lujocuba.com/moneda-de-cuba-peso-cubano/

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jul 13 2021 19:31 utc | 211

@ Jörgen Hassler (#208 & #211),

Please move on. I have repeatedly stated that the article was shared from a monetary history context and not for any conclusions. Yet you refer to the article for conclusions. Your first BS about the dual currencies was debunked and now you move to devaluation with further distortions. Most of the times there are MULTIPLE factors at play.

Cuba’s economic mismanagement has made them vulnerable to the Empire. Speculation about monetary unification, along with goods scarcities, saw prices rise in late 2020. Any positive impact will be blunted by the Empire.

Starting with sanctions the Empire is squeezing them. The U$A Treasury is threatening to fine foreigners that engage with Cuba. The Cuban government is struggling to combat U$A’s measures to scare off foreign investors too. Cuba’s annual foreign investment portfolio included 503 projects for which the government seeks $12 billion as part of its national development strategy.

Will the Non-$ Bloc help Cuba?

Posted by: Max | Jul 13 2021 20:04 utc | 212

@ Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 13 2021 19:30 utc | 210

Just to give the example of lack of electricity: the American embargo on fuel imports resulted in the lack of energy to operate the powerplants. The numbers were given (the fuel they needed, the fuel they were able to buy and not to buy before the new blockade), you just need to read Granma.

The stiffened blockade are from the Trump era. They are in operation since 2019. They predate the pandemic. The explanation of the Cuban government is not anachronistic.

In abstract you can claim everyone may be lying. At the end of the day, you have to prove the Communists are lying in Cuba. So far, they have been giving us the exact numbers, and they've been extremely transparent, by today's standards.

Cuba is doing extremely well comparing to the other Latin American countries. In Brazil, it was simply decided to ignore the dead and pretend nothing is happening; in Ecuador, bodies literally piled up on the streets. This is not my opinion, the numbers don't lie: Cuba is, objectively speaking, fighting this pandemic very well and, most importantly, with dignity. They will now mass produce and distribute the first of their five vaccines and, in one year, it will be contained. The color revolutionaries probably know that, they know they don't have much time until the Communists solve this problem and link up with China and Russia. I think that, in their calculations, they don't have much more than one year to topple the Communists.

You have to prove the Communist elite of Cuba is hoarding money somewhere. Fidel's daughter fled to the USA and accused him of stashing billions of dollars in Switzerland. Fidel died in November 2016 in a very modest house in Havana in very frugal conditions, aged 90.

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2021 20:23 utc | 213

Posted by: librul | Jul 13 2021 18:34 utc | 198

LOL. Thanks for the laugh w/ "well fed."

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 20:38 utc | 214

Posted by: corvo | Jul 13 2021 17:50 utc | 186

let me point out that beans are hardly "low carb"; in fact, they're mostly carb, with few exceptions, such as peanuts, which are not nuts but beans, and soybeans. Some, like pintos, also have high glycemic index levels approaching sucrose;
_________________________________________________

You seem to be saying high glycemic index means the same as high carb.
Some carbs digest slower than others.
Carbs that break down quickly digest in the upper GI tract and raise blood glucose quickly (high glycemic index). Carbs that do not fully breakdown in the upper GI tract are digested by microbes in the lower GI tract. Carbs that breakdown in the lower gut contribute to blood sugar more slowly but also some of the carbs digested in the lower are converted to short chain fatty acids so that doesn't contribute to blood sugar at all. Pinto beans may have a lot of carbs but they are rated as having a low glycemic index.


BTW, the Glycemic Index of sucrose is not as high as white bread. Enzymes in your saliva start to convert the refined starches in white bread to glucose before it even gets to your stomach.

Posted by: jinn | Jul 13 2021 20:43 utc | 215

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 13 2021 19:30 utc | 210

And you don't think that every one of those problems, including endogenous ones and government mismanagement are both exactly the desired outcomes of the brutal US embargo/sanctions and that, as well, the embargo/sanctions make it literally impossible to tell how well such situations would be managed in their absence?

AGAIN: Lift the goddamn sanctions and stop interfering. This cannot be allowed to happen because with the levels of success in many areas that Cuba has enjoyed despite Uncle Scam's criminal actions, it's obvious that Cuba would serve as a model nation for centralized socialism/communism in the Western Hemisphere. It's that simple. Screw these idiot Cuban Americans who are traitors to their own people.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 20:48 utc | 216

Excellent editorial by the Global Times:

US blockade, disruption of Cuba a serious crime: Global Times editorial

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2021 20:54 utc | 217

@ jinn | Jul 13 2021 20:43 utc | 215

You seem to be saying high glycemic index means the same as high carb.

I regret that I cannot take credit for your imagination.

Posted by: corvo | Jul 13 2021 21:04 utc | 218

The peaceful protests the whole West claims for being be allowed are not so, these are really Venezuela like guarimbas...

Here "peaceful protesters" overturning a police car with its officer iside, there is blood as you can see...Nobody doing this in the US would have escaped alive...and bycurrent state of affairs in the EU, probably in any European country, at least not with its two eyes in place...

https://twitter.com/OLMB14/status/1414946051837022217

Video by Yusnaby ( US NAVY ) Pérez, the one behind the hastag operation through Twitter

Thread on how the Twitter campaign has been orchestrated, exactly the same as with Brazilian elections which gave the victory to Bolsonaro and with the Bolivia coup by Añez and minions

What is happening in Cuba:

https://twitter.com/JulianMaciasT/status/1414681678539378691

To add that deaths by Covid-19 in Cuba, one of the alleged reasons for the protests are far from the championed numbers by the West, where, morevoer, no protest is allowed since around a year and a half under "pandemic laws", with harsh legislation being prepared to be passed in some countries in the EU on "security" grounds to force mandatory vaccinations with experimental products and so called "Covid passport" for doing everything, and in passing neoliberal shock pension reform, like in France ( to be contested in the coming days at every city...), and even forced labor without retribution, like in Spain...

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 13 2021 21:18 utc | 219

The best strategic move for Cuba now is to start jamming the internet coming into the country from Florida -- Facebook, Twitter, etc. Washington is using the internet to spark insurrection like it has always wanted to use TV Marti and Voice of America in the past but was jammed by Cuba. It was a mistake to bring in US internet, which has allowed US psychological operatives to have direct access to the Cuban people.

Posted by: Chas | Jul 13 2021 21:19 utc | 220

As he says AMLO, the best humanitariain aid for Cuba is lifting the blockade which asfixiates the island since decades ago....

https://twitter.com/Viejo_Topo/status/1414651867288772612

Wondering whether USAID and Amnesty International will say a word in favor of the millions of Western citizens whose basic rights are being undermined during the whole "pandemic"...

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 13 2021 21:31 utc | 221

Another take from China, for those who are interested and were worrying why it didn't manifest immediately:

US chokes Cuba, blames socialism for failing, by Yan Jin

As I said, the war is not against Cuba per se, but against socialism.

Wars between two systems are the most brutal war possible. The last of these wars - the East Front of WWII - is a testimony to that. It's not a war to the last man, but a war to the last child; it's a war of annihilation - what Aleksandr Tvardovsky once described as the war "for life on Earth".

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2021 21:42 utc | 222

One of the causes that things are going harder in Cuba is the whole dismantling of the tourist industry due the "pandemic" of which the island literally lives...

Of course, there are other countries who live from tourism, like Spain and other mediterranenan countries, but the governmetns of all these countries have accepted being indebted for generations to come to receive the loans of TPTB in exchange the enslavization and criminalization of their citizen taxpayers.

Cuba had rejected a deal with the Covax fund of the WHO...Every country which has rejected impossing lockdowns, vaccinating their people, or financial loans in exchange of vaccines have ended or with their heads of state death or with a color revolution, Belarus, Tanzania, Burundi, Haití, and now Cuba....

As the events happen and multiply, it is increasingly clear that the "pandemic" is being quite instrumental for the US to achieve what could not during all these past decades, say, invading Cuba and Haití, for starters, and enslaving, again, their people, and enslave the European people by finishing what of welfare state remains there in Europe ...
Finally impossing a nazi dictatorship around all its area of influence to keep the grip as socilaist ideas advance even in the very US, in the middle of the mother of all crisis, included that of the dollar as reserve currency...

This is war on the whole world....

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 13 2021 21:47 utc | 223

More Miami hijinks from Cuban Americans

Looks like the US media is using the BLM model to push this story.

And...

Meanwhile, the U.S. Coast Guard in Miami has been monitoring any activity aimed at increasing “unsafe and illegal” crossings between Florida and Cuba in response to rare street protests on the island.

Rear Adm. Eric C. Jones issued a warning statement Monday night as groups of Cuban immigrants said they planned to travel in boats filled with supplies to Cuba to show support for the Cuban protesters.

In Miami, Cuban social media personalities posted Monday that they would make the 10-hour boat ride to Cuba to show support after rare street protests broke out over the weekend, the Miami Herald reported. The influencers said they would bring aid — and guns — and urged people in Miami to offer up their boats.

One group gathered Monday night at Pelican Harbor Marina near Miami’s North Bay Village, and people brought cases of bottled water, flashlights and boxes of canned pasta, the newspaper reported.

What could go wrong?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 21:52 utc | 224

@Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 21:52 utc | 224

That calls for flood of boats from Miami with "supporters" has all the pinta of an intend of invasion like the last happening in Venezuela with US mercs involved who tried to enter through a fishers village and were caught....

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 13 2021 21:59 utc | 225

Posted by: corvo | Jul 13 2021 21:04 utc | 218

I regret that I cannot take credit for your imagination

__________________________________________________
I' don't think I imagined that you claimed Pinto Beans have a high glycemic levels.
I can still see it written in your post @186

Posted by: jinn | Jul 13 2021 22:06 utc | 226

According to the epoch Times =

Cuba Accused Of Using Chinese Tech Systems To Block Internet Access Amid Protests

Sort of a two four-- China and Cuba both evil

"Alp Toker, director of Netblocks, a London-based internet monitoring firm, told The Associated Press that Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram, and Telegram had been blocked. Twitter didn’t appear to be blocked, but Toker said that the regime could cut it off if it wishes to do so."

Posted by: arby | Jul 13 2021 22:11 utc | 227

@ jinn | Jul 13 2021 22:06 utc | 226

. . . nor your inability to read. It's entirely your imagination that I claimed that "high glycemic index means the same as high carb."

Now back under your bridge; I'm sure there's some nice white bread there.

Posted by: corvo | Jul 13 2021 22:17 utc | 228

@Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 13 2021 19:30 utc | 210

El problema es que todo esto de lo que te quejas y que denuncias ocurre en Cuba, lo estamos sufriendo en los países del bloque occidental, al menos en Europa, pero elevado a la enñesima potencia, con muchos más cientos de miles de muertos en la priemra ola y mucho más severo recorte de libertades.

Respecto a los precios, el gasoil subió al precio de la gasolina, las facturas de electricidad fueron estratosfñericas para el mes de Junio, y la cesta de la compra casi duplicó sus precios.
También hay desabastecimientos periñodicos de medciamentos básicos, aunque me temo que esto es para subir también los precios.

En Cuba, que visité antes de la pandemia, hay muchísimos y excelentes músicos, y muchísimos y excelentes médicos. Si, vi escasez, de lujos, pero no vi a nadie con harapos o muriéndose de hambre, ni viviendo en la calle, aunque si en casas destartaladas en Havana vieja, por ejemplo, pero éstas casas del patrimonio histórico no se pueden encalar con un bote de pintura, hay que restaurarlas, y para eso hace falta mucho dinero, algo que debería ser costeado por todos, como patrimonio de la humanidad...En Santiago de Cuba, por una vez, en la noche, cuando volvíamos por la calle de bailar salsa en uno de esos encantadores locales situados en un piso de una casa, se fue la luz, pero uno puede bailar salsa y son en Cuba a diario si quiere, y nunca falta una sonrisa...lo que no sep uede decir de Europa o EEUU...

Encontré bastante prosperidad, incluso para estándares europeos, en ciudades como Camagüey y Cienfuegos...y a los agricultores de la sierra no les va tan mal, parecen gente feliz..y, además, simepre hay una taza de buen café disponible...

Si usted supiera cómo estamos viviendo durante esta pandemia en Europa, como reclusos, algunos al borde de la criminalización cuando no hemos dejado de trabajar y pagar impuestos, se daría con un canto en los dientes y preservaría su revolución como agua de Mayo, que nadie dice que no es mejorable, siempre se puede mejorar cualquier cosa, y diversificar la economía para no depender sólo del turismo. Pero imitar lo de EEUU y Europa es una atraso, cada 10 años le quitarían todo lo que ganó durante una década de esfuerzo como hacen con todas y cada una de las crisis económicas que periódicamente organizan e inventan para robarnos el prodcuto de nuestro trabajo y nuestro sudor, rebajar nuestro poder adqusitivo y tratar de robarnos nuestros ahorros mediante nuevos impuestos hasta por el aire que respiramos....

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 13 2021 22:29 utc | 229

I always understood the term troll as one who deliberately provokes angry responses and flame wars. For example, a hit and run post stating that most Hillary fans fail to understand the concept of powered reentry.

I do believe an effective troll campaign can cripple a discussion board and overwhelm its moderation. I have seen comment sections irremediably polluted by endless food fights.

However, this is certainly not what I am reading on this thread. If by troll, some of you are thinking paid propagandist, I would point out that much of the meat on this thread comes from well defended counterarguments. What would be the point behind that strategy? If anything, we should welcome diverse views.

Posted by: robin | Jul 13 2021 22:48 utc | 230

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 13 2021 21:59 utc | 225

Indeed. And I forgot to add the part of the article that discussed how some of these boats that've been stopped by the USCG indeed were stopped because of some of the cargo they were carrying....guns.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 23:14 utc | 231

As Evo Morales already pointed out, the Empire cannot afford to have little poor Cuba's vaccine out in full strength.

People everywhere is starting to ask questions.


Hey, kuvan Want to see repression?? Take a peak at Colombia if you can dig deep enough las fosas comunes which of the uribista government knows nothing about. Or may also take a good look at blind and disabled Chilean demonstrators, no pun intended. Fujimorismo in Perú had a brief three day government last and they managed to kill two people. Cuban government look like puppies besides the right wingers.

I will have kuvan's cliche shower warmly in mind later today when Pedro Castillo is proclaimed president of my country. Cheers everyone

Posted by: Mariátegui | Jul 13 2021 23:15 utc | 232

Posted by: robin | Jul 13 2021 22:48 utc | 230

I agree with this. Cuban may or may not be getting paid or employed to push the weird arguments he's making. But I have to point out that when you dissect their statements, what you have is classic anti-Cuba talking points kinda disguised as concern trolling. Doesn't support the communist/socialist government, but also doesn't support any US intervention. That's certainly not the opinion of the majority of the demonstrators in Miami and Tampa. When interviewed, they are basically calling on Biden to take direct action against Cuba's leadership. @Cuban doesn't go that far, and he/she refuses to be pinned down on any particular opinion for what he/she wants other than claims that Cuban citizens can't own businesses and it's time for a new government.

It is that reason that I initially agreed with the "troll" accusations, but it doesn't really matter because, like you said, if the aim was to convince anyone that Cuba needed "help" from the USA or that their government was just plain inept having nothing whatsoever to do with the brutal US sanctions and near total embargo, he/she failed miserably and we all learned a little something from each other in the process.

I *almost* got a whiff of @craigsummers there for a minute, but it's clear to me that it's a different person.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 23:20 utc | 233

"are pig-headed to a fault" the irony is palpable.

James - You have always struck me as one of the more thoughtful commentators here, I am surprised at the "don't let the door hit you in the ass" response.

Meh.

Posted by: David F | Jul 13 2021 23:51 utc | 234

@ 229 asha k - translation

The problem is that all of this that you complain about and what you denounce happens in Cuba, we are suffering it in the countries of the Western bloc, at least in Europe, but raised to the nth degree, with many more than hundreds of thousands of deaths in the first wave and much more severe cuts in freedoms.

Regarding prices, diesel rose to the price of gasoline, electricity bills were stratospheric for the month of June, and the shopping basket almost doubled its prices.
There are also periodic shortages of basic drugs, although I am afraid this is to raise prices as well.

In Cuba, which I visited before the pandemic, there are many excellent musicians, and many excellent doctors. Yes, I saw a shortage of luxuries, but I did not see anyone in rags or dying of hunger, or living on the street, although in ramshackle houses in Old Havana, for example, but these historic heritage houses cannot be whitewashed with a paint pot, you have to restore them, and for that you need a lot of money, something that should be paid for by everyone, as a world heritage site ... In Santiago de Cuba, for once, at night, when we were going back down the street to dance salsa in one of those charming places located on a floor of a house, the power went out, but you can dance salsa and they are in Cuba every day if you want, and a smile is never missing ... what I can't say from Europe or the US ...

I found a lot of prosperity, even by European standards, in cities like Camagüey and Cienfuegos ... and the farmers of the sierra are not doing so badly, they seem like happy people ... and, besides, there is always a cup of good coffee available ...

If you knew how we are living during this pandemic in Europe, as inmates, some on the brink of criminalization when we have not stopped working and paying taxes, you would hit your teeth and preserve your revolution like May water, that no one He says that it cannot be improved, you can always improve anything, and diversify the economy so as not to depend only on tourism. But imitating the US and Europe is a backwardness, every 10 years they would take away everything they gained during a decade of effort as they do with each and every one of the economic crises that they periodically organize and invent to steal the products of our work and our sweat, lower our purchasing power and try to steal our savings through new taxes even on the air we breathe ...

@ 230 robin... yes.. welcome alternative arguments, even if they are paid for by the cia - whoever... i agree as well, which is why i refrain from using the word troll...

Posted by: james | Jul 14 2021 0:01 utc | 235

@ David F | Jul 13 2021 23:51 utc | 234... david - either you are going to participate in some constructive way, or you're not... ultimately we all decide on an individual basis from post to post of our own making.. thanks for your comment and best regards..

Posted by: james | Jul 14 2021 0:03 utc | 236

james #235

"Regarding prices, diesel rose to the price of gasoline...." (which you translated from AshaK's post)

Interesting. Diesel has pretty much always been more than gasoline where I live. It's been a while since I bought any, but when gasoline hit the price of diesel back in 2008 I was shocked.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 14 2021 0:07 utc | 237

James - That is the type of comment I have come to expect from you. Reasoned, dignified, measured, open minded.

Thank you.

I don't feel I have anything of substance to add to this conversation, I will revert to just reading, until I feel I have something worth contributing.

Cheers.

Posted by: David F | Jul 14 2021 0:25 utc | 238

Venezuela is digging into the #SOSCuba attack, this lays out more detail and names some of the players along with Cuba's success in defeating it and the INCREASE of support and solidarity from many parts of the world, including China big time.

bottom line.... The Empire's hairbrain plot backfired...again.


https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Cuba-Implicates-US-in-Financing-Destabilization-Op-on-Sunday-20210713-0010.html

Posted by: migueljose | Jul 14 2021 1:54 utc | 239

@ Posted by: migueljose | Jul 14 2021 1:54 utc | 239

The twitter campaign certainly came from the USA. Internet is extremely expensive in Cuba.

Posted by: vk | Jul 14 2021 2:04 utc | 240

One of the benefits to the Cuban economy was the actions of Brazil, under us pressure, to expel thousands of Cuban doctors and nurses from it's rural health program. Who's doctors and nurses were paid in foreign currency and enabled the government to sustain itself on multiple fronts. With us backing Brazilian government ended all of their contracts overnight creating a huge Health Care crisis and Rural Brazil. It also created an economic crisis for Cuba

Posted by: les7 | Jul 14 2021 3:57 utc | 241

Sigh... Spell check changed big hits to benefits

Posted by: les7 | Jul 14 2021 3:59 utc | 242

Yes, housing in Cuba, as dh mentions up-thread. I neglected to add this to Cuba's many virtues: private home ownership stands at 90% of the population.

Wikipedia is the first chart I could find, and it shows Cuba as 5th in the world for home ownership:
List of countries by home ownership rate

The US is somewhere around 65% (and falling), by comparison.

People in Cuba have an existential happiness that I suspect most people from the US could not even dream exists in this world. (But people from many other countries I think would understand this deep-seated feeling of security.)

Some stats lifted from Luciana Bohne's retweets of Carlos Martinez:

"There are many wonderful things about Cuba (education/health systems, internationalism, social justice, no extreme poverty); these are the result of the Cuban people building socialism. There are some bad things (shortages etc); these are the result of the criminal US blockade"
🇺🇸 US life expectancy: 78.54 years

🇨🇺 Cuba life expectancy: 78.73 years

🇺🇸 US infant mortality: 5.9 deaths per thousand

🇨🇺 Cuba infant mortality: 3.8 deaths per thousand

~~

As others here suggest: imagine how brilliantly Cuba could shine throughout the Americas if she had not been so ruthlessly held down for 6 decades.

~~

The Demonstration Effect: I take from the undeniable economic successes of the socialist nations of the world that socialism produces a vastly superior benefit for the people of a society than does the so-called "capitalism" (which we know by many other appellations).

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 14 2021 4:06 utc | 243

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 14 2021 0:07 utc | 237.. that is interesting as here on vancouver island diesel is generally always cheaper then gasoline!

@ david f.. thanks.. i appreciate what you are saying..

@ les7 - getting brazil to vote for a president aligned to usa foreign policy objectives was successful in putting more screws to cuba - the the brazilian poor - 2 birds with one stone as jen mentioned in the most recent thread on cia behaviour.. of course tourist dollars completely dried up during covid as well, so cuba is in a more challenged place financially... good points to make.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Jul 14 2021 4:11 utc | 244

People hate communism.
But MOA promotes it.

Posted by: Cadence calls | Jul 14 2021 4:27 utc | 245

@max:

Just some friendly advice: read up and think before you write. And then start your work by actually reading the post [your own] I responded to.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jul 14 2021 5:33 utc | 246

Lucci @ 145

I have to agree to disagree. The Bay of Pigs was not a serious attempt to take over the country. The Cuban missile crisis was not a serious attempt to take over the country and run their puppet regime. They put the forces in place and did not use them.

The education system in the US was excellent in times past. Especially if you were motivate to learn. Many come from the world over to live here and go to school here. Many have abandoned the Marxist experiment when given the chance. The Oligarchs will always step in and steal the state enterprises set up by Marxism in its inevitable collapse. Capitalism in its current form has an inevitable collapse coming as well. Both sides will always be at war decimating societies gains that could be achieved in either system.

Capitalism does offer something to some people. Marxism does offer some things to some people. Where is the balance? Both sides use the same methods to keep control. It is an endless conundrum that starts with the way people have socially evolved to over thousands of years.

Posted by: cirumspect | Jul 14 2021 5:40 utc | 247

What is the difference between Communism and a state like Saudi Arabia which is a dictatorship but guarantees state benefits based on oil production?

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jul 14 2021 12:11 utc | 248

All the sanctioned countries should form their own free-trade block. It's disappointing that they haven't done so yet.

Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Jul 14 2021 12:31 utc | 249

So, I'm waiting for the new user "South African" to appear here.

He should be listing all the economic and political problems with South Africa, be claiming for the release of Zuma, to topple the present government and to expel any American influence from the country.

Posted by: vk | Jul 14 2021 14:59 utc | 250

@ Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jul 14 2021 12:11 utc | 248

Saudi Arabia could do much more, but is doing just the bare minimum so as for a revolution/popular uprising to not happen. It wants to keep the poor forever poor, but alive and not in state of revolt.

Communist-led countries work to eradicate poverty.

State benefits don't equal communism/socialism. The USA gives a lot of State benefits (mostly to corporations, but they do). It is only in the mind of the middle class American that the State giving benefits is the exception, not the rule. It is a middle class viewpoint.

Posted by: vk | Jul 14 2021 15:03 utc | 251

@ Posted by: Cadence calls | Jul 14 2021 4:27 utc | 245

You raise an interesting point.

If you read the Western sources - be they journalistic, academic or political/official - from the first decades of the Cold War, you'll see they're much more rational, much more nuanced and much more detailed.

The virulent propaganda only becomes ubiquitous after the USSR fell.

So, this "hatred for communism" is actually a very recent phenomenon. It certainly is a concerted effort by the capitalist elites from the "End of History" period on - we can infer that from the fact that the quality of the analysis of Western historians on the USSR fell, and degenerated to outright lying propaganda, precisely in the period they had access to the Soviet archives. David Glantz is the exception that proves the rule, and it is amazing to see the propaganda on the other historians when we use him as a control.

That's why, to this day, Edward H. Carr's "A History of Soviet Russia" is still, by far, the best general history work of the USSR (even though it only covers up to the spring of 1929). Carr was a bourgeois, non-Marxist, British historian - but he published his 14-volume work between 1951-1975, during a period where the USSR either was at its apex or in a stable condition.

In other words, the virulent and grotesque anti-Communist propaganda as common sense in the West is actually a very recent phenomenon, and is very far from being "natural".

Posted by: vk | Jul 14 2021 15:11 utc | 252

Posted by: vk | Jul 14 2021 15:11 utc | 252

'In other words, the virulent and grotesque anti-Communist propaganda as common sense in the West is actually a very recent phenomenon, and is very far from being "natural

IMO that is absolutely false. Even the word Communism or Communist has been only been allowed to be used as a slur or an alternative to evil for as long as I can remember and that is a long time. Well before the fall of the USSR. Well before.

Posted by: arby | Jul 14 2021 16:24 utc | 253

VK, what I was driving at is that U.S. leaders call out 'Communist govts' as uniquely evil as opposed to run of the mill dictatorships. I'm getting the sense that the word is tossed around carelessly, kind of like ... CRT.

I guess in the old days, Communinists sought to export the revolution so, yeah, you can at least make a self-defense argument but now that is not the case so 'Communists' remains a ghost pejorative.
---------------------------------------------

Honduras vs Venezuela remember how Maduro's Venezuela is condemned as the new Nazi Germany? I looked up Honduras, their President took over in a coup and won in a crooked election that was condemned by the vaunted OAS, Organization of the Americas, in 2018. Guess what the U.S. did? We recognized the results and congratulated the President. But wait, I thought that the OAS in DC was the gold standard for evaluating elections. Yes but only if we don't like the guy then it's the second coming of Hitler.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jul 14 2021 17:23 utc | 254

@ Posted by: arby | Jul 14 2021 16:24 utc | 253

It already existed since the October Revolution. But it only became dominant - that is, not only the common sense, but also the academic consensus - by the end of Cold War/after the USSR fell.

During the Cold War, you could at least find respectable Western experts who could analyze the USSR neutrally. Nowadays, there's no space for that even in the most restrict academic environment.

Posted by: vk | Jul 14 2021 17:37 utc | 255

I think that in Cuba you can own your house but not the land it sits on.

Posted by: arby | Jul 14 2021 19:32 utc | 256

The first picture in this report I believe is of Haiti...burning tires during protest is common but nor in Cuba...Aljazeera going the way of the Guardian, Reuters etc...

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/7/14/cuba-restricts-access-to-social-media-apps-to-curb-protests

Posted by: notlurking | Jul 14 2021 20:09 utc | 257

Re Al Jazeera picture

It is definitely a picture taken in Haiti.

The graffiti on the wall says: "Tie-up Leonard"

The licence plates are Haitian as well. However a few are wearing masks. Not for Covid, but for masking their identities.

Posted by: CarlD | Jul 14 2021 22:18 utc | 258

Indian Punchline:

In fact, Moscow’s ambassador in Havana has assessed that the recent protests in Cuba are actually home-grown only, as living conditions have deteriorated due to the pandemic. Moscow doesn’t agree with the allegation by the Cuban president Miguel Diaz-Canel that Washington instigated the protests.
https://www.indianpunchline.com/us-russia-ties-warming-up-is-it-for-real/

I guess that settles it then. You can't be more catholic than the Pope.

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Jul 15 2021 2:46 utc | 259

Sedition and color revolution

I should mention a few more points in reference to Cuban's concern trolling:

1) Anyone who mentions. no matter how innocuously or innocently, that *this governments policies are not working, we need a new government*, rather than just advocating for better leadership and policies (with examples of who and how), is in reality arguing for the overthrow of the government. There is a word for what Cuban is advocating, Sedition, and it is punished most harshly, sometimes even by death, in every country in the world.

No matter how peacefully this overthrow, or coup, is intended to be, it generally results in massive violence, dislocation, and resistance. In the case of a counter-revolution against a communist government and it's inevitable reversion to a US satrapy, rule by the rich and massive insider corruption, commonly called Capitalism, it would necessarily entail the "purging" of the entire communist leadership who refuse to recant their thought errors. Purging. as I'm sure you understand, is a euphemism.

This is the same technique was used in Hong Kong, where the Wongthinkers acted like they were only asking for more freedom, but where in reality they were asking for separation from China. The US Civil War comes to mind, but I'm sure that too, and the unprecedented carnage was innocent too

This technique is based upon the unprecedented propaganda power of the Western Lying Press which can turn lies into truthiness, compassion into outrage, and a tawdry plastic gizmo with a lifespan of hours into the miraculous body of capitalism.

Sure, a few percent, like the alcoholics at this bar who are obsessed with geopolitics and the search for truth will easily see through this, but who cares? They simply move on to the next lie.

2) In general the independent nations have figured out how to handle these attacks, even if they don't brag about it. China handled the situation most skillfully, in a judo-like manner, simply giving the useful idiots enough rope to discredit themselves, and look like the deranged idiots they were. In that manner they were able to turn a wavering population into strong supporters of the government.

3) Notice that Cuban's suggestions make no sense: Build more hotels when tourism has collapsed? Start import/export businesses while under a draconian trade embargo?

He is wasting his talents and should be selling malarial infested swampland in Florida.

4) Another typical concern troll technique is too attempt to foment outrage at the lifestyles of the leaders, portraying them as hopelessly corrupt, and deflecting attention from actual policies.

Look they ride on yachts! Look, they have fancy toilets! This back-fired horribly with Evo Morales, as photos showed a rather empty, very ordinary, ugly modern house that hardly looked lived in at all. But it was used to treat effect with Saddam Hussein and with Yanukovych before the maiden. Whether or not a leader has garish tastes should have no importance compared to what the leader is trying to do for his people, and under what odds, but concern trolls, like all American propaganda want you to focus on the personal defects of a leader, which is very easy to exaggerate about. It also opens the door to the illegal rules-based order doctrine of responsibility to protect (R2P) to protect the people from incompetent leadership. Noam Chomsky shamelessly peddled this myth about Saddam Hussein, among others.

5) Which brings me to my final point: Fidel. When I first heard the accusations of his personal fortune being valued at 1 to 3 billion, I became very curious.That is a lot of money for such a small impovershed country. It would involve theft on a grand scale, not for one year, but for decades, something that would be very hard, if not impossible to conceal. It also made no sense, since virtually his entire family broke off relations with him after he nationalized his families vast holdings. Had he been interested in money, instead of leading a communist revolution, he could have lead a life of idle renter riches. So, none of this made any sense. Turns out here's how the claim was justified: Calculate the value of every nationalized industry in Cuba. Since Cuba is a communist country, that represents a majority of the national wealth. Castro was the leader. Since the working concern troll assessment was that he was your standard "authoritarian nut," attribute to entire national wealth of the country to Fidel. I kid you not, this is how the outlandish claim was Calculate and justified. Concern troll logic. Like adding the balance sheet of the Fed, Fanny May, every military base including equipment, and the entire national park system to Biden's net wealth. Insane!

A final note on Fidel. After he stepped down from government, he turned his concerns from the national to the global level. He wrote a series of weekly commentaries for Grandma, which were translated into English, and I believe are still available. These thoughts and concerns were notable for his honesty, forthrightness, compassion, and insight. There are only a handful of world leaders one can read at their word, without falling into a black hole of lies. That's because there are only a handful of leaders who actually serve their people, not a small corrupt set of oligarchs. Most world leaders treat their populations with thinly disguised contempt.

On the world stage, Putin, Xi Jinping come to mind. In South America, there was certainly Hugo Chavez, Nicholas Maduro, and his Vice President Delcy Rodriguez. Evo Morales, who has now become a senior statesman and regional leader and organizer. Guillermo Lasso.

There are none I can think of in the United States. Perhaps the last was Paul Wellstone, who was assassinated for his efforts. In the UK, George Galloway, and maybe Jeremy Corbin. In the EU, Claire Daly and Mick Wallace.

A few in Southeast Asia. In any event, I think most people would be hard-pressed to come up with 25 names..

Fidel brings the famous poem About Ben Adam to mind, where surely he was one who loved his fellow man

Posted by: Malooga | Jul 15 2021 2:52 utc | 260

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2021 20:23 utc | 213
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 20:48 utc | 216
Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 13 2021 22:29 utc | 229

I'll try to reply in English (?).
I pointed out facts. Please, read carefully what I say to avoid falling into logical fallacies. You can doubt of the accuracy or truthfulness of my alleged facts. You can refute them if you can show opposed evidences and I will appreciate that. But these are verifiable facts and observations.
Facts which I know are valid for Cuba: 1) There is a huge shortage of food, as of almost all goods. There are many people not eating enough. There are relatively many (as I never saw before) people searching for food in garbage. 2) This shortage of goods includes medicines, comprehending absolute absence of antibiotics of any kind. This lack of medicines in pharmacies has no precedent and has last for about one year. 3) Hospitals are rejecting to attend people if they are not labeled as "Covid-19 patients". This neither has precedent. 4) There has been a significant increase of general poverty since "Covid-19 epidemic" started. The purchasing power of most Cubans has been significantly reduced and their savings divided perhaps by five. 5) All the above affects negatively human health and specially the immune system. 6) The above affects more old people, those who are predominantly dying allegedly of Covid-19.
Other facts I know are not only valid for Cuba: Sustained use of masks produces hypoxia and bacterial pneumonias in humans. Sustained worry and fear produce immunosuppression in humans.
Other facts not previously mentioned: 1) Before "Covid-19 pandemic" the total number of human deaths per year in Cuba was about 150,000 (total human population / life expectancy). The total number of deaths allegedly due to Covid-19 for the last 365 days in Cuba is roughly 1,500. This means 1 % of the expected number of human deceases in one "normal" year. 2) Virus infections have no cure besides the immune system response. 3) Most inhabited territories of this planet have become something similar to concentration camps allegedly to protect people from an alleged virus. 4) I insist it's not my opinion: there are no scientific evidences of the existence of SARS-CoV-2: it has not been isolated, purified, microelectronically photographed and sequenced. 5) "Covid-19 disease" has an impossible pathology. 6) The alleged SARS-CoV-2, if we accept the official story, does not behave like a virus. 7) "Covid-19 infectious epidemic" has an impossible epidemiology. 8) The tests used to allegedly diagnose Covid-19 officially (not my opinion) produce both false positives and false negatives. In fact, PCR tests can be arranged to produce custom-made positive or negative Covid-19 "diagnoses".
And I have to stop showing facts because it is endless.
Corollary (not my opinion): SARS-CoV-2 / Covid-19 is a dogma and a macabre lie.
If you think I am trying to introduce a Conspiracy Theory, let me ask: Can facts and only facts be a Conspiracy Theory? But History is full of conspiracies: another fact, sorry.
The implemented policies by Cuban Government based on the SARS-CoV-2 / Covid-19 dogma are the ultimate causes of the present situation in Cuba. Nobody forced Cuban Government to follow these policies. Therefore, the recent riots in Cuba have endogenous causes. Most people involved in these riots reacted to their objective problems and were driven by their rational perceptions and not by an order from outside. This does not deny the fact that US Government and their attendants have acted opportunistically pushing these riots to happen.
Best regards.

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 4:14 utc | 261

@ Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 4:14 utc | 261

The Cuban Goverment response to Covid-19 its been so "bad" that we have actually the LOWEST death rate from America (I mean: ALL the continent): 0,6%. Better that even Denmark, or Israel, for example. And this is with just ~20% of population vaccinated.

I actually live in Cuba. We are not starving at all. Food is expensive, not much variety, but "hunger" is not a real thing. That "terrible" Government is sending low-cost (or no-cost) food supplies to people in very bad health/economic situation - they even take the food to their houses, so they wont have to get out, avoiding get sick with Covid. The real problem is: the "liberal", "progressive" Biden Goverment won't erase any of +200 blocking measures taken by the Trump Administration. So much for the people who wants to "help us".

There are A LOT of problems with the bureoccratic apparatus, a lot of ridiculuous obstacles, and most of people in these protests were dragged to them because of legitimate causes - but these were the *pacific* demonstrators that you can see in some protest videos. On the other side, the violent protests were clearly instigated from USA, using criminals, delinquents, marginal characters (like the ones that happened in Venezuela a few years ago - were they even burned alive people on the streets). Hopefully, the Cuban version wont go too far - the Goverment and the people is alert now.

That "terrible" Goverment also created another miracle: at least FOUR anti-Covid19 vaccines, that are being tested right now (one of them: Abdala, is now a full-blown authorized vaccine). We have the supplies to produce MILLIONS of bulbs of these vaccines - and most are already made. The problem now is we have not enough syringes to use for the vaccinating campaign that we want to do all over the country. We don't have these syringes thanks to our northern "helpers" - that are blocking the buys to Cuba everywhere. Thanks to the REAL help of a lot of friends all over the world, that have sent syringes, medicines, tests and medical equipment, we will have at least 60% of our people fully inmunized by the end of August. And ALL of the people by November-December.

And later - we will start sending our vaccines to Latin America and whoever wants to buy them - at a low cost, you can be sure of that.

This is what we can do with a +60 years old blockade over our shoulders. If not was for that, we will have more economic and politic liberties and a lot more scientific results.

BTW: To you and your Florida cousins: please, stop asking for American invasions. This won't happen. They can't really afford it :-)

Posted by: Lian | Jul 15 2021 4:57 utc | 262

Speaking of crimes against Cuba.

The USAi is the crime of the past century and then some.

Arundhati Roy chronicles those crimes in her film WE a 1 hour video at her website.

Barflies might appreciate her speech.

Good to see the Global Times standing up for Cuba.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 15 2021 5:18 utc | 263

@262 Lian

Thank you for those truths about Cuba. No one can know who anyone really is on the Internet, but I hope that you actually do live in Cuba, and I wish you a good life because of it - I felt a twinge of envy when I read that.

I sometimes wonder, if the US were to lift the restrictions on travel to Cuba for its citizens (such as, not being able to use a credit card, must state a non-recreational reason for visiting, etc), how many people would flock to Cuba, and actually go to live there permanently, as part of the long-standing ex-pat flight to Central America?

I have heard that there are only two countries in the world that the US Treasury will not send a citizen's Social Security payment to, and of course one of them is Cuba.

As commenters frequently observe here, the US is most afraid of the competition from a superior system - knowing that if the market were to be free, and the playing field level, the US would lose all its captive consumer base.

The criminal ruling class of the US is terrified of the contrast shown by a simply decent society.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 15 2021 6:12 utc | 264

Dear Lian:
You are the coarser sophist (with my most sincere apologies to all other sofists for including you in their club) that ever existed. And I thought I knew them all. Your lack of rationality has no precedents. I refuse to argue with you. There is not yet a name for your fallacy. So, I propose this: the fallacy of the blind and deaf mad dog. But I notice this: you are using a PC, not a cellphone like me.
BTW: Are you part, together with US and Cuban Governments, of that conspiracy? Just kidding: you do not have enough brain for that or for anything else but to bark and to try to bite.
Have a good day.

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 6:14 utc | 265

Dear Lian:
Sorry, I do not refuse to argue with you. I just can not!!

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 6:21 utc | 266

Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 6:14 utc | 265

"But I notice this: you are using a PC, not a cellphone like me."
I don't know what the thing is, but, just to be clear: I am using a PC AND a cellphone :-)

Also: you say so much without saying really nothing... sophistry, you said? (wink, wink)

Posted by: Lian | Jul 15 2021 6:33 utc | 267

Dear Lian:
How I knew (only with my cellphone) you are using a PC? You are using a PC conected to the Internet at 3 am.
So, I have to edit:
BTW: Are you, as part of Cuban Government, and together with US Government, part of that conspiracy? Just kidding: you (the Cuban Government) do not have enough brain for that.
BTW2: Prove you have some brain solving this puzzle. Of course you can not. Please, stop barking, I have very sensitive ears. Keep trying to bite, it wont hurt me. Anyway, you have to do something.

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 7:27 utc | 268

Estimado Lian:
Puede que yo me haya equvocado. Tal vez seas de un gobierno diferente al cubano. ¿Puede articular sin ladear algo en español?

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 7:30 utc | 269

Hard to find someone how speaks Spanish at 3:40am?

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 7:39 utc | 270

Lian #262

Thank you for your post and taking the struggle up to deniers and the fleas of uncle sam. May your times be safe and fruitful.

And thank you to Cuba for decade after decade of goodwill to all nations and people. The entire world owes Cuba a debt of gratitude for their generosity and stubborn self confidence.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 15 2021 7:45 utc | 271

Dear Lian:
There must be someone. Keep trying. But time is running. 22 min should be enough.

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 7:52 utc | 272

Yes, if you use Google translator I will notice it. Not so stupid. Bravo!

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 7:57 utc | 273

Dear Lian:
Do you have a beautiful office there in Langley?

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 8:10 utc | 274

This is funny because in all forums I have been always accused of being communist. In one forum I was even banned: "From Cuba? Communist!". But now I have been accused of "asking for American invasion (of Cuba)" by a very probable CIA agent. I think it is fair if I use for first time in my life a minor fallacy: argumentum ex silentio, because, everywhere in the Internet I have received nothing but fallacies. And probably I guessed.

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 8:34 utc | 275

Thanks Lian and Malooga @260 and @262..good stuff.

Posted by: Jason | Jul 15 2021 8:35 utc | 276

@ Malooga 260

"5) Which brings me to my final point: Fidel. When I first heard the accusations of his personal fortune being valued at 1 to 3 billion, I became very curious.That is a lot of money for such a small impovershed country. It would involve theft on a grand scale, not for one year, but for decades, something that would be very hard, if not impossible to conceal. It also made no sense, since virtually his entire family broke off relations with him after he nationalized his families vast holdings. Had he been interested in money, instead of leading a communist revolution, he could have lead a life of idle renter riches. So, none of this made any sense. Turns out here's how the claim was justified: Calculate the value of every nationalized industry in Cuba. Since Cuba is a communist country, that represents a majority of the national wealth. Castro was the leader. Since the working concern troll assessment was that he was your standard "authoritarian nut," attribute to entire national wealth of the country to Fidel. I kid you not, this is how the outlandish claim was Calculate and justified. Concern troll logic. Like adding the balance sheet of the Fed, Fanny May, every military base including equipment, and the entire national park system to Biden's net wealth. Insane!"

This is a trick the Anglo Empire loves to use, they have used in on Putin recently, claiming he was the richest man in the world. Turns out the article "calculated" Putin's wealth by adding together the value of several Russian industries considered friendly to Putin, the reason being Putin was an authoritarian leader so he owns every company that supports him.

Posted by: Jason | Jul 15 2021 8:40 utc | 277

Miami's mayor calls for bombing Cuba. If there is a place on this earth as putrid and infected as a tumor that is Miami, where all Latin american traitors and butchers boil their desperation in a stew of hate and impotence. Consígase una silla gusano que van sesenta años y quedan muchos más.

Posted by: Paco | Jul 15 2021 8:50 utc | 278

More on the American-created Twitter psyops campaign SOSCuba and related ops.

In particular, the Americans have been bankrolling front companies like ProActivo Miami Incorporations and adn Miami, which have been instrumental in driving this social media psyops.

Cuba Proves U.S. Involvement in Destabilization Actions against the Cuban People
https://libya360.wordpress.com/2021/07/14/cuba-proves-u-s-involvement-in-destabilization-actions-against-the-cuban-people/

Posted by: ak74 | Jul 15 2021 10:23 utc | 279

Lian @ 262

The Cuban Goverment response to Covid-19 its been so "bad" that we have actually the LOWEST death rate from America (I mean: ALL the continent): 0,6%. Better that even Denmark, or Israel, for example. And this is with just ~20% of population vaccinated

When the former president of Tanzania, John Magufuli, sent a papaya to the lab for covid testing it came back positive. He subsequently dismissed the need for a mass vaccination program, concluding that the virus was manageable without one. In the meantime, we've all learned that the ubiquitous PCR test is a red herring.

In trying to reconcile the psychoneurotic binge on experimental gene therapy injections sweeping the globe, I'm wondering why a country like Cuba, with its very formidable medical expertise and contributions to global health and 'do no harm' ethos, with its decades long resistance to imperialism and corporate fascism, hasn't more overtly rejected the apparently integrated global response to what's clearly a relatively benign pathogen.

Posted by: john | Jul 15 2021 10:32 utc | 280

Dear John:
Very good point. Also notice what happened with those Russian turists in Cuba: negative (in Russia), positive, Russian Government protest, negative. Nobody saw this? Read it here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://tass.com/society/1310723/amp&ved=2ahUKEwioy83d_uTxAhXYQzABHUKhBTQQFjABegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw2I_kUximVCutIdReev0RtG&ampcf=1&cshid=1626349435398">https://tass.com/society/1310723/amp&ved=2ahUKEwioy83d_uTxAhXYQzABHUKhBTQQFjABegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw2I_kUximVCutIdReev0RtG&ampcf=1&cshid=1626349435398">https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://tass.com/society/1310723/amp&ved=2ahUKEwioy83d_uTxAhXYQzABHUKhBTQQFjABegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw2I_kUximVCutIdReev0RtG&ampcf=1&cshid=1626349435398

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 11:45 utc | 281

Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 7:30 utc | 268

I think I can understand some of your line of thinking: if I am connected "on a PC at 3 AM" I belongs to the goverment??? Just to clear a little your confusion: I am a software developer - I think this alone, should explain the working times :-). Besides: daily blackouts, Internet blocked - I have a lot of work delayed because of this, unfortunaley have to work in the night until de madrugada.

And, if you think that using a PC to connect to Internet is a smell of "Goverment agent", maybe you should think twice - a LOT of people connects from home right now, using ADSL. I am using the "Plan B": connected by my cell phone, using USB tethering on the PC. Most of my developer friends have to do the same thing.

Now, talk more about "knowing" anything about Cuba.

Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 7:30 utc | 269

Y puedo hablar perfectamente en español, sin "ladearme", pero aquí el 99% habla inglés.

Posted by: Lian | Jul 15 2021 14:48 utc | 282

Tank you, John. You put me on the track:
""Three countries refused the COVID-19 vaccine. Now all three of their presidents have died unexpectedly," a meme, shared on Facebook, reads. "Haiti - Jovenal Moïse was killed yesterday. Tanzania - John Magufuli died March 2021. Madagascar - Didier Ignace Ratsiraka died March 2021. Are you a ‘coincidence theorist’?" text below the image says."
Read the whole article here:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/12/facebook-posts/theres-no-evidence-these-politicians-were-killed-o/

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 15:18 utc | 283

This article, in fact, considers this was a coincidence. But really?

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 15:26 utc | 284

Lian…un par de preguntas si puedo. I discovered recently that Havana now has supermarkets and shopping malls. I never saw any 15 years ago. Can you tell me who owns them? Is anybody free to shop in them? Are they well stocked? Expensive? Do customers need to pay with US dollars? I’m genuinely curious to know how it works.

Posted by: dh | Jul 15 2021 15:42 utc | 285

Inolvidable, vendedora de maní, en Habana vieja, junto al museo...Maniiii!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6rCs-vwpIM

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 15 2021 16:44 utc | 286

Dear Lian:
Eres un mentiroso. No le cuentas la verdad a la gente aquí, sino tu versión mística y babosa de la "realidad cubana". Allá los tontos que se la crean. Lo tuyo es pura propaganda. Eres la versión Miami multuplicada por -1, que al final son lo mismo: irracionalidad e intolerancia.
Conozco unos cuantos comecandelas como tú que terminaron lléndose pa la yuma.
Te entiendo, no te conviene que venga alguien "knowing" algo diferente a tu pinguera propaganda.
Y, lo más importante, por supuesto, la respuesta a tu acusación de que estoy "asking for American invasion (of Cuba)":
Singao maricón, me cago en el recoño de tu madre.
Have a good day.

Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 17:00 utc | 287

Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 17:00 utc | 287

Muy buena tu respuesta. Todos los odiadores de Miami tienen el mismo perfil: no dan argumentos, solo saben ofender. Por cierto, por qué no escribes esa misma respuesta *en inglés*, para que el 99% de los comentaristas, que no entienden el castellano, comprendan realmente la terrible persona que eres.

Yo no diré nada de tu mamá, por su puesto. Solo deseo que te cures de ese odio tan terrible del que padeces. Buena suerte en tu vida.

---------------

Very nice response. All the Miami haters have the exact same profile: they don't give answers, they only know how to offend. Btw, why don't you write that same response, *in English*, just for the 99% of commenters -who can't read Spanish- finally know the terrible person you really are.

I wont say anything at all about your mom, of course. I only wish that you can cure yourself from the terrible hate sickness that you are suffering. Good luck with your life.

Posted by: Lian | Jul 15 2021 17:28 utc | 288

@ Posted by: Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 17:00 utc | 287

You ("Miami") just asked the USG to bomb Cuba, my friend. To bomb your own people.

The debate is over.

Posted by: vk | Jul 15 2021 17:33 utc | 289

dh | Jul 15 2021 15:42 utc | 285

Havana (and Cuba) has supermarkets/mall about from the 90s. I mean: USD-ish stores (there has been Cuban pesos stores all the time). But the better stuff is on the USD stores, of course.

From the 90s until this year, you had to pay with CUCs (also known as "chavitos"). CUC was a USD proxy, with their own change rate, you can buy them using Cuban pesos, etc. They were removed recently, now the only option is to put *real* USD in some bank account and there are stores that only accept this kind of payment. Anyone can buy on this stores, but obviously, something like 70-80% (my personal guess) of the people can't afford to buy there usually.

Supplies: In my own town -I live en deep Cuba- the only USD-store doesn't have stuff to sell, just a few sanitary items: detergent, soap, etc. And in most of the country is the same situation.

About expensive: all the prices are hiking up. The prices on the state-operated stores are not going suddenly up, but they slowly getting more expensive. And the "normal" price should be about 2x-3x more expensive that anywhere else in the world. Most of this price is because the Goverment has to go very far/paid a lot more for the same thing that cost less in other countries.

About the owner: ALL the public stores here are owned and operated by the State. There are a lot a very small "stores", whose owners are private, but they can only be described as "funny stores": mostly are just personal rooms on some house, with clothers, equipment, etc, that you can buy from them. And most of this business is in the "gray zone" - is not totally legal, and the Goverment is currently just wont pursue them - I think because the bad economic crisis that we have - the public stores have just a few/zero merchandises.

Even the little private stores are having a lot of problems, because they were supplied by private people that traveled to another country, buyed stuff and bring it here (they are called "mulas"). But, with this Pandemic, the travels are halted/slowed down, so, they have very few things to sell. I have been searching for replacement pieces for my PC from about a year now, and I can't get to them - even with the money to buy them (and more expensive, of course).

On the other side: the rationing system ("bodegas") still is working mostly ok (fortunately). And some food stuff that used to be sold on the old CUC stores are sold on this system, mainly chicken, grinded meat, etc.

Conclusion: as I said on other comment - there is no hunger here, but the economic/comercial situation is not good at all. And it will get worse.

Posted by: Lian | Jul 15 2021 17:54 utc | 290

@290 Thanks for the update. I remember the convertibles from my visit but nothing I would call a shopping mall....like the Carlos 111. That is surely recent. I actually met some mulas. They were Mexicans and they stayed at the Hotel Nacional.

Cuba must be getting hit bad now, from the embargo of course but also the lack of tourists. Lo siento.

Posted by: dh | Jul 15 2021 18:18 utc | 291

IIRC, Castro did not really like the idea of tourism and big hotels catering to gringos. Unfortunately I assume he had little choice because of the embargo.

Posted by: arby | Jul 15 2021 19:20 utc | 292

@292 The tourism industry would have developed in Cuba inevitably. I don't think Fidel could have done much to stop it. Some of those hotels in Varadero are owned and managed by the Cuban army. Tourism is...or was....the biggest source of revenue after sugar and tobacco.

Posted by: dh | Jul 15 2021 22:58 utc | 293

b:

Troll cleanup on Aisle 287. Repeat: Troll cleanup on Aisle 287!

Posted by: corvo | Jul 15 2021 23:22 utc | 294

@ vk | Jul 15 2021 17:33 utc | 289:

They aren't his own people. His own people are rich ex-Cubans in Miami, and probably on the white end of the race scale. The folks he wants bombed are Cubans who, inevitably, aren't as white.

Posted by: corvo | Jul 15 2021 23:23 utc | 295

@294 Could you identify the offender by name or post number please. I get so paranoid when something like that comes right after one of my posts. Thank you.

Posted by: dh | Jul 15 2021 23:33 utc | 296

@ dh | Jul 15 2021 23:33 utc | 296:

Reference is with regard to Román Rubiera | Jul 15 2021 17:00 utc | 287. By far the most vile thing I've ever read on this site.

Posted by: corvo | Jul 15 2021 23:40 utc | 297

@297 Couldn't agree more. But he did give us an insight into the Miami mentality ...and the kind of Spanish they speak.

Posted by: dh | Jul 15 2021 23:47 utc | 298

@298 dh

Glad that, again, I didn't read the troll. And glad also that the guano, again, made for fertile ground.

It must be the moral stature of Cuba, that simply doesn't allow a bad thing to despoil the good.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 16 2021 3:36 utc | 299

Cuban,

the only certainty of revolution is change. It can bring improvement or decline. You’ll always have some elite in charge. The US also doesn’t necessarily know what influences it wants on Cuba. Costa Rica seems like a pleasant model, but you wouldn’t get that without the right leaders, assuming such is even possible.

If you want crazy ideology to read, check out GK Chesterton, “Outline of Sanity.” Distributism is a fun outline of an ideal. There are a lot of recent books out too explaining Asia’s success and problems with the US, but they might not apply to Cuba’s unique economy and potential.

Posted by: Weaver | Jul 19 2021 1:13 utc | 300

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