Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 12, 2021

U.S. Launches Another Attempt To Regime Change Cuba

Yesterday saw minor protests in Cuba driven by U.S. regime change dollars and by economic problem caused by U.S. sanctions. They were accompanied by a number of newly created accounts on various social media which posted the same slogans over and over again under the #SOSCuba hashtag.

But soon pro-government protesters turned out in larger numbers than the anti-government protesters. Apart from a few scuffles nothing happened and today everything seems to be back to normal.

I consider the whole thing to have been a trial run for some bigger plans. But the operators behind this must feel disappointed. The turnout on the anti-government side was lousy.

The Guardian headlines:

Thousands march in Cuba in rare mass protests amid economic crisis

I doubt that 'thousands' number as pictures and videos, aside from the usual fakes, only showed small demonstrations of dozens to maybe a hundred.

The Guardian piece includes this picture which seems to show quite a number of people.


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The caption says:

Anti-government protesters gather at the Maximo Gomez monument in Havana on Sunday. Photograph: Eliana Aponte/AP

Hmm:

Inaugurated in the mid-1930s, this magnificent monument pays homage to Dominican-born General Máximo Gómez, who became Commander in Chief of Cuba’s Liberation Army during the Wars of Independence.

'Anti-government' protesters at a national independence monument?

And what are these flags of the 26 of July movement doing with 'anti-government' protesters?

The 26th of July Movement (Spanish: Movimiento 26 de Julio; M-26-7) was a Cuban vanguard revolutionary organization and later a political party led by Fidel Castro. The movement's name commemorates its 26 July 1953 attack on the army barracks on Santiago de Cuba in an attempt to start the overthrowing of the dictator Fulgencio Batista.

This is considered one of the most important organizations among the Cuban Revolution.

'Anti-government' protesters?

Really, Guardian? Really???

The dude responsible for the nonsense is quite open about it.

President Biden @POTUS - 15:22 UTC · Jul 12, 2021

We stand with the Cuban people as they bravely assert their fundamental and universal rights, and as they all call for freedom and relief from the tragic grip of the pandemic and from the decades of repression and economic suffering.

Statement by President Joseph R. Biden, Jr. on Protests in Cuba | The White House

Decades of economic suffering in Cuba could be easily ended by the dude above as they are largely caused by 60 years of U.S. sanctions.

This cartoon fits the situation.


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Posted by b on July 12, 2021 at 16:11 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@97 That makes a lot of sense to me. When I was in Havana I was taken by a tout to a secret restaurant. Just a room in a house but they had set it up nicely. One table, one chair....even a candle. I found it very touching and the 3 course meal was very nice too. $20 if I recall. I got talking to the family. Their dream was to open a restaurant on the Rampa some day. I wished them buena suerte. You can't keep people like that down.

Posted by: dh | Jul 12 2021 22:52 utc | 101

@97 Cuban

A lot of lame capitalist talking points where you ultimately admit you are fine with a totalitarian government from outside the nation controlling Cuba just so you can buy more stuff, specifically the stuff the totalitarian government outside of Cuba is preventings Cubans from having in the first place.

If America gains control of Cuba, they are going to move opium production there since Afghanistan is likely 'going out of business'. Oh, but you'll be able to get a Big Mac and a Ford Festiva, so it will all be worth it.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Jul 12 2021 22:57 utc | 102

@Posted by: Rutherford82 | Jul 12 2021 22:57 utc | 102

It's lame that to want my people to have food. Ok. Also: Ideally I want want any totalitarian state, idiot. But Cuba's geography may mean choosing between one totalitarian regime or another. If that's the case, I choose the one that can ensure there is enough food for everyone. Like you would choose for you and your family. Comrade

Posted by: Cuban | Jul 12 2021 23:03 utc | 103

I meant to say *Ideally I don't want*

Posted by: Cuban | Jul 12 2021 23:04 utc | 104

As often happens with breaking events, there's so much salivating over certain hot topic items (OMG! regime change operation!) that everyone loses site of the larger picture.

In addition to that cogitative failing, we have the useless sparing with a troll.

As I tried to note in my comment @Jul12 18:32 #29 recent events seem coordinated:

  1. Venezuela was also hit with unrest (a polite way to say criminality because it was primarily gang-related), which was put down (for now).
  2. There's clearly a Haiti-related global media psyop underway as well which tries to portray black as white and white as black.

Although Cuba's economy may be suffering from Covid and sanctions, Cuban 'regime change' isn't really likely anytime soon. We should ask WHY NOW? IMO the most likely reason for Cuban protests and Venezuelan unrest at this time is simply that they unsettle the country/government and give them pause while Haiti coup plotters consolidate their power.

There's a socialist vs. oligarch conflict in the entire region. As well as a Cold War amongst the global major powers.

The bigger picture helps to explain things like why Venezeula raided Juan Guaido's residence today and arrested a close associate of his.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 12 2021 23:05 utc | 105

@ Rutherford82

Oh, I dunno. The climate is probably not optimally suitable. For our drug needs we'll always have Colombia, where our guys are doing a fine job of mowing down protesters, labor leaders, indigenous tribe members, etc., thus ensuring stability at our usual gunpoint. But you never know.

I think Cuba would just revert to its former status of (as I noted earlier) plantation/casino/whorehouse. We'll leave it poorer than Puerto Rico but maybe somewhat better off -- because whiter? -- than Haiti.

Posted by: corvo | Jul 12 2021 23:08 utc | 106

@Cuban

You reference the US as the "friendly Empire a few miles away from Cuba".

I have never heard ANY Cuban, Central American, or South American call the US the "friendly Empire"!!!

Please, I know we should not feed trolls, but it is important for people to push back against propaganda and not ignore it.

Cuban, if you really are in Cuba, cut your government some slack. They have been in a cold war and almost fully blockaded by a most evil and powerful empire less than 100 miles away for over 60 years.

The fact your country has survived at all is a testament to your people and government.

Posted by: Mar man | Jul 12 2021 23:09 utc | 107

@Cuban

If that's the case, I choose the one that can ensure there is enough food for everyone.

You are aware, aren't you, that the USA isn't exactly a good model of such a state?

Posted by: corvo | Jul 12 2021 23:09 utc | 108

Interesting graphics on how toxic the U.S. Embargo has been on Cuba

Imports by country https://tradingeconomics.com/cuba/imports-by-country
- China is the largest w/20%, virtually no imports from other LA countries. Normally your immediate neighbors will be your biggest trading partners. The U.S. has terrified the rest of Latin America.

exports by country: https://tradingeconomics.com/cuba/exports-by-country
- Venezuela w/35%, another country under siege, nothing from the rest of the continent.

Total exports + imports went from $20B down to $12B between 2013 => 2019
https://tradingeconomics.com/cuba/exports
https://tradingeconomics.com/cuba/imports

Elliott Abrams, Pompeo, Bolton, and Trump must be pleased with themselves.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jul 12 2021 23:20 utc | 109

Thank you. I needed a timely report on this situation. Please keep tabs on it. Otherwise the imperial lies of the moment become timeless and eternal truths. "Thousands are protesting" begins to sound like it's been happening every day since 1959, or maybe tens of thousands, or more, in the imperial echo chamber.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Jul 12 2021 23:20 utc | 110

@103 You seem to think there is some middle way Cuban. Kind Uncle Sam helping poor impoverished Cuba as soon as it sees the light. Of course nothing is ever that simple. I think the biggest stumbling block, after the hardcore Fidelistas in Havana, is the folks in Miami who want their property back.

(Ignore the troll police who want to censor this discussion. b will say when he's had enough.)

Posted by: dh | Jul 12 2021 23:28 utc | 111

Posted by: Cuban | Jul 12 2021 22:37 utc | 97

I'm sorry you said that you lived "many years", as you certainly sound much, much younger.
Let's see if I can sum up your screed properly: "My people want food and stuff, Cuban government gives no food and stuff, but once democratic government, everything better. We can trade stuff AND we can choose if we're friends with the USA or not."

I am still trying to determine if you are really that naive (in which case you're either an idealistic young man or simply retarded) or just a CIA shill. You do pick and choose the people with whom to argue, so that would point to someone not confident enough to debate outside of his/her talking points.

But let's indulge you.

"The government could, for example, become self-sufficient while sticking it to the US if it wanted to".
-> See, the problem there is that Cuba is under near-total embargo BECAUSE it is already sticking it to the US. Can't have both freedom to use your resources as you choose and opposition to the US of A while living 200 miles from them. Either you submit or you pay the price. The only thing that prevented the US from having their way with Cuba is the very fact that Cuban government is totalitarian. But your naïveté here probably stems from a lifetime of watching american TV, so I can understand where you're coming from.

"Native Cubans could use their resources to set up import/export businesses, hotel chains, retail stores, blabla"
-> And become another Dominican Republic, sure. Given that you won't be able to oppose the US as per the previous point, you'll have the same results as the other mesoamerican countries. Being a touristic destination, Cuba would become the bordello of the US. Love the criminality stats for Nicaragua, by the way.

"Our economy would become localized but robust and this would allow us in theory to be like Iran"
-> and starve to death, which goes back to your initial problem with the current government. Iran is mostly starving to death under US sanctions, and the only thing giving them some reprieve are their huge reserves of oil. Which Cuba doesn't have, as it's ranked 68th in proven oil reserves. Iran is 4th. Yeah.

"If only our leaders had any ideological spine"
-> You mean Castro? or the rats they promoted as leaders of the Cuban Americans?

"And of course they party on yachts and wear expensive clothing and have expensive taste"
-> Like the Batista government before Castro, only then people were starving even more than now and were used as slave labor for the USA.

"Research their lives on Instagram if you don't believe me"
-> Look up the lives of the US leaders on the Internet. They literally give their kids hotels, big corporation jobs (which act as de facto monopolies in the US) and yacht parties. They also subvert every court action attempted against them, because they can. Meanwhile, half of the US student population has trouble buying food. Look up "Hunger in the United States" on Wikipedia.

" that keep CUBA WEAK and at the mercy of the US"
-> with such a solid program, you should petition the US to be the next Juan-Guaido-for-Cuba, and surprise us. We'll be waiting.


Posted by: Lemming | Jul 12 2021 23:49 utc | 112

SO where are Russia in this, where are China? What happened to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? Why aren't Putin(that the Faker is assuring me is incredibly smart and clever) and Xi helping Cuba already? Imagine the tables were turned, USA will already have people in there, talking to Cuba, asking them what they need/want.
Yet one more example of clear fail by BOTH Russia and China, who clearly dont know what they are doing. This is a war, yet they are so fukken lame.

DO NOT BLAME USA, BLAME RUSSIA AND PUTIN AND CHINA FOR NOT DOING ANYTHING!

Posted by: Hoyeru | Jul 12 2021 23:52 utc | 113

Posted by: dh | Jul 12 2021 23:28 utc | 111

Good one. Folks in Miami who were forcibly sent there want their property back? Or do you mean people who willingly "fled" Cuba when "their property" (uh, I dunno - all the best arable land, oil and mineral leases, and any other resource that they STOLE) back? Maybe you should read up on the history of Cuba starting at least as far back as Batista. Oh, it's a crazy story I'll tell ya. Organized crime (including the American Mob), graft, murders, gambling, sugar, vast fortunes squirreled away, and of course Uncle Scam backing it all. I wonder why the poor was so pissed off?

From the first two paragraphs of his biography:

He then instated the 1940 Constitution of Cuba[5] and served until 1944. After finishing his term, Batista moved to Florida, returning to Cuba to run for president in 1952. Facing certain electoral defeat, he led a military coup against President Carlos Prío Socarrás that pre-empted the election.[6]

Back in power and receiving financial, military and logistical support from the United States government,[7][8] Batista suspended the 1940 Constitution and revoked most political liberties, including the right to strike. He then aligned with the wealthiest landowners who owned the largest sugar plantations, and presided over a stagnating economy that widened the gap between rich and poor Cubans.[9] Eventually it reached the point where most of the sugar industry was in U.S. hands, and foreigners owned 70% of the arable land.[10] As such, Batista's repressive government then began to systematically profit from the exploitation of Cuba's commercial interests, by negotiating lucrative relationships both with the American Mafia, who controlled the drug, gambling, and prostitution businesses in Havana, and with large U.S.-based multinational companies who were awarded lucrative contracts.[9][11] To quell the growing discontent amongst the populace—which was subsequently displayed through frequent student riots and demonstrations—Batista established tighter censorship of the media, while also utilizing his Bureau for the Repression of Communist Activities secret police to carry out wide-scale violence, torture and public executions. These murders mounted in 1957, as socialist ideas became more influential. Many people were killed, with estimates ranging from hundreds to about 20,000 people killed.

That's what Cuban wants for Cuba.


Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 12 2021 23:53 utc | 114

@114 Thanks. I definitely should learn more about the Cuban revolution. Was there a mass exodus of wealthy Cubans after Castro took over? Or had some of them already seen the writing on the wall. I'd like to know exactly how it went.

I'm still not sure exactly what Cuban's solution is but I think he or his family were among the ones who lost their property.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 0:07 utc | 115

I recall in 2003 or so that one real beneficiary of the war in Iraq was Chavez's government in Venezuela. The US was now so distracted by the mess they made in the ME (both in Iraq and Afghanistan) that they wouldn't have the energy to topple his government. I believe that the Chinese also felt that at least for another decade they wouldn't have to worry about the US bothering them; they began preparing for a possible war with the US that would happen a decade or so later.

This relevant to Cuba today. Now, the US has an underemployed military machine that is probably eagerly looking for new opportunities (say in Cuba or Venezuela??). I hope I am being overly pessimistic.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jul 13 2021 0:12 utc | 116

I wonder who the Americans have selected to be the 'rightful' president of Cuba?

Posted by: MarkU | Jul 13 2021 0:14 utc | 117

if the US and its propaganda and its corporate Elites had their way, Cubans tomorrow would be as poor as the Haitians, as oppressed as the Colombians, and as miserable and disenfranchised as the poor Guatemalans, Hondurans and El Salvadorians who have to flee their counties by the tens of thousands.

the US would totally wreck every single vestige of the socialist-communist state which benefits most of the people most of the time.

the health, education and living standards of the average Cuban would fall 20%-30% or more, just like they did in most post-Soviet eastern european and central asian (the -stan) nations (Belarus was the one exception to this rule in Europe). mortality rates would soar as the free health care system would be privatized and/or totally dismantled....

US industry would invade the island and totally pollute the land and sea environments. There would be no state regulatory control on finance or monetary policy, it would all be run from Wall Street and Washington, immediately impoverishing a large % of the population. it would be worse than in Mexico where still even under a recent and relatively progressive nationalist government, 46-52% of the population lives in poverty - and like in Mexico, the multinational scoundrel corporations (recall please the privatizations of land and state-run monopolies like telecommunications under Carlos Salinas and from the 1980s on) would buy up land by the millions of acres, all to profit the white and rich gringo Oligarchic class in gringolandia....... etc etc

cuba may not be any kind of perfection on earth but the main reason for this lies less than 200 miles to its north, and those who deny that are fools, propagandists for US predatory capitalism, or neo-liberal interventionist barbarians.

the entire history of Latin America and US-sponsored intervention and take-over speaks for itself if we could but only listen

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jul 13 2021 0:21 utc | 118

Informative Sputniknews article only a few hours old:
"'Bay of Tweets': Twitter Permits Anti-Cuba Bot Army Despite 'Coordinated Inauthentic behavior' Rules"
It points out that this started a few days ago with a bullshit Twitter tag and massive bot use. Link to article..

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 13 2021 0:26 utc | 119

He will even camouflage himself with a nearly sensible post some times. Imho.
librul | Jul 12 2021 18:51 utc | 38
That's common to certain kinds of incremental trolling, argument and politics.
The slippery slope inverted is incrementalism.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 13 2021 0:28 utc | 120

@119 Sunny Runny Burger

Great article. The social media bot army started up before the "protests". Haha

Many of us regular readers knew something was up when one of the very first comments was suddenly anti-Cuban government and trying to convince us the protests were really large and fully grassroots organic!

Despite the article clearly proving otherwise.

Posted by: Mar man | Jul 13 2021 0:34 utc | 121

... Youre going to be the next plantation....
Posted by: Kartoschka | Jul 12 2021 18:54 utc | 41
One need only look to how Peurto Rico is treated to predict Cuba's fate in the delicate hands of disaster capitalism.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 13 2021 0:36 utc | 122

Posted by: cuban | Jul 12 2021 19:00 utc | 44

"and so fourth and so fourth"

Is that a tell...

Posted by: notlurking | Jul 13 2021 0:37 utc | 123

So yet another America-backed regime change ops, dressed up as a "Pro-Democracy" movement, is going down. This time against Cuba.

The giveaway is how the American and corporate "Free Press" are creaming their collective panties in cheerleading for this regime change operation. The vaunted Free Press is hot and horny to recolonize ... sorry... impose "democracy" on Cuba!

And just as revealing, all the regime change trolls magically start appearing on social media websites to promote propaganda narratives to justify this attempted destabilization campaign.

Pro-imperialist message drowns truth as Cuban “maidan” unfolds
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2021/07/12/pro-imperialist-message-drowns-truth-as-cuban-maidan-unfolds/

Interests Behind the Request for “Humanitarian Intervention” in Cuba
https://libya360.wordpress.com/2021/07/12/interests-behind-the-request-for-humanitarian-intervention-in-cuba/

@ MarkU, 117 "I wonder who the Americans have selected to be the 'rightful' president of Cuba?"

Juan Guaido for President of Cuba!

Little Marco Rubio for Vice President.

And Ted Cruz for the newly renamed Lucky Luciano Department of Commerce in Capitalist Cuba.

Posted by: ak74 | Jul 13 2021 0:40 utc | 124

I have never been fond of Marxism or the Marxist president for life scenario. That being said I have always viewed that sanctions as disgusting. Cuba would be a far better place without them. The Cuban government has done a good job of keeping their country from becoming a hellhole battleground like Central America and never fell into the right wing dictator trap like what South America went through with US help.

Devaluation is very hard on the countries people. Maybe the US decided to open a new drug market to peddle coke, heroin, and legal opiates? We will make you rich as long as you spend your money on our drugs for more black ops.

Posted by: circumspect | Jul 13 2021 0:54 utc | 125

Hello Cuban,

Say hello to Matt for me. We haven't seen Matt much in the bar lately, matters in Syria being very quiet of late and his DownWithAssad hashtag has gone all rusty. Busily swotting up hard to send money to his beleaguered relatives in Venezuela, I suppose, so they can send money to him to pay his college fees in Canada.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 13 2021 0:57 utc | 126

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 0:07 utc | 115

It's been a while since I learned about the Cuban revolution and I don't generally get into discussions that might require me to brush up on it, but I think it was probably both, with more of the compradores and businessmen/landowners with US relations fleeing during and maybe just prior. However I could be wrong. I do know that the demographics of Cubans coming here to the USA have changed over time and that the policies have also changed a little as well. When you've got 70% of the arable land in the hands of foreigners, that's a recipe for disaster all by itself, anywhere in the world. Throw in the corruption, draconian crackdowns on communists, leftists, the poor, students, the media and a highly stratified/unequal society and something like what happened was bound to happen unless the US had been able to intervene before it did. I don't know exactly what the dynamic was PRE-revolution between Castro-supporting elements (including Che Guevara) and the USSR.

Either way, it's never about "the property" - I'm willing to bet that there have been more than enough Castro-era bank accounts frozen and the funds distributed to certain oligarchs and upper class that fled the country from 1959 onwards to make up for any "stolen" property lost. It's about US interests having full unfettered access to the holdings of the Cuban government and private finance in control of their economy. The stolen property narrative is just propaganda - and - any of the property confiscated or nationalized was almost certainly ill-gotten in the majority of cases. Again, how else could foreign interests control that much of the farmable land? What I have no idea about at all is *how many* actual well-off Cubans fled to the USA. It couldn't be a whole lot, but they and their descendants sure do command a lot of attention and make a lot of noise.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 1:02 utc | 127

I thought there was an unwritten rule to not feed the trolls.
Michael Weddington | Jul 12 2021 19:33 utc | 58
Trolls are like The New York Times.
To the extent they are usefull they illustrate an argument we should deconstruct.
But I am a troll apologist and biased in the matter.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 13 2021 1:04 utc | 128

Posted by: ToivoS | Jul 13 2021 0:12 utc | 116

It's not as though they didn't try in 2002.

If one accepts the Bush administration’s account, high-ranking US officials met on a virtually continuous basis in recent months with the military officers, businessmen and trade union bureaucrats who organized the ill-fated April 11 military coup in Venezuela. But, administration spokesmen insist, these officials repeatedly urged the coup plotters not to take extra-constitutional action.

This self-serving version of the US role was fashioned only after the nascent junta headed by big business association chief Pedro Carmona disintegrated in the face of a popular uprising in the streets of Caracas and growing divisions within the Venezuelan military.

When it appeared that the plotters had succeeded, the White House could not contain its glee, quickly blaming the coup on Chavez and proclaiming the junta’s legitimacy.

The composition of the coup leadership further discredits Washington’s denials of responsibility. That a group of military officers—several of them graduates of the Pentagon’s School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Georgia—and wealthy businessmen would ignore Washington’s “advice” and go ahead with a coup d’etat opposed by the US government defies all logic.

Even if taken at face value, this absurd scenario would make the Bush administration an accomplice in the abortive attempt to overthrow an elected Latin American government. Though repeatedly notified that a coup was planned, it did nothing, by its own admission, to warn the Chavez government.

The information that has emerged in the wake of the coup makes it increasingly clear that a right-wing cabal of anti-Castro Cubans and veterans of the CIA-organized “contra” army that attacked Nicaragua in the 1980s worked intimately with those who organized the coup.

According to the Bush administration, within hours of the junta’s announcing its seizure of power, Otto Reich, the US Assistant Secretary for Western Hemisphere Affairs, was in telephone conversation with Carmona, advising him on the political tactics to be pursued by the new “military-civilian” regime.

US officials cited the conversations, in which Reich allegedly urged Carmona not to immediately dissolve the National Assembly, as evidence that the Bush administration was defending democratic principles.

But the exchange, as reported by these officials, indicates that Reich was working to prevent the regime from overreaching during its first day in power, fearful that it would provoke popular opposition.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/04/vene-a18.html

They were forced to reckon with the reality that Chavez' government was *very* popular among the people (and most of the military) which is probably the main reason they only half-ass tried several more times. Nevertheless, they certainly DID keep trying.

By early October, 2002, Chavez announced Venezuelan authorities had already uncovered another coup plot. Two weeks later, Chavez narrowly escaped an assassination attempt. The attempt appeared to coincide with anti-government protests.

Then, as U.S. president George W. Bush entered his second term in 2005, Washington appeared to redouble its efforts to remove Chavez. A month after Bush was sworn in for a second time, Chavez said his government had uncovered another assassination plot. The plot was uncovered just weeks after then U.S. secretary of state Condoleezza Rice described the Venezuelan leader as a “destabilizing force.” In September that year, Bush again lashed out at Venezuela, accusing the country of failing in its fight against the narcotics trade.

Another major coup plot was foiled in 2006, when Venezuelan authorities said they found evidence the U.S. embassy in Caracas had been secretly collecting military information. That same year, the Department of State began barring certain arms sales to Venezuela. This was the beginning of what would later become a key pillar of U.S. policy towards Caracas – sanctions.

https://www.telesurenglish.net/analysis/Tracking-US-Intervention-in-Venezuela-Since-2002-20151117-0045.html

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 1:14 utc | 129

@127 Land ownership in Cuba goes back to Diego Velázquez de Cuéllar and the conquistadores (Cortes, Alvarado etc.). Same few families who still own most of Central America. I don't know if you've been to Havana but the houses an warehouses are still there from the 1500s. I'm sure a lot of Miami Cubans are able to trace their ancestry back that far.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 1:14 utc | 130

OR
2. He's none of the accused by all the other posters.
GhostBuster | Jul 12 2021 20:25 utc | 68
You can't tell a pro, from a bored but clever troll, from a "justified true believer" (tm).
But it doesn't precisely matter either.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 13 2021 1:17 utc | 131

circumspect @125--

Cubans went through the "right wing dictator trap"/crap "with US help" which is why Cubans had their Revolution. Given that all efforts to level the socio-political-economic nature of a nation has met with massive retaliation of a siege-like nature by Right-wing Reactionary forces throughout history--including those of the supposedly democratic Outlaw US Empire--leadership succession was seen as a weak point in those nations by Reactionary forces which essentially forced the hand of the Revolutionaries that if they wanted to keep their gains they had to stay at the helm. The number one reason why the fledgling USA wasn't immediately reinvaded by the British was because there was no leveling attempted; otherwise, as France's Revolution would soon prove, the British would have done all in their power to reassert their claim of control.

So far within world history, there has only been one truly successful revolution that resulted in an outcome that could be termed Socialist--Cuba. Russia was initially successful but was unable to keep a Class System from reforming as is also the case with China, although China's come a long way in judging every job no matter how menial as being just as important as another. It's the envy accompanying inequality that provides the lever to undo leveling-type revolutions--someone must attend to the sewers while someone must run the government: Both are important but carry different statuses. Overcoming that problem within human nature has proven to be almost impossible which renders humans subject to the wiles of Machiavellians.

Maybe at some future point China will prove its overcome that problem; but with 1.4 Billion humans who might develop feelings of envy, you can appreciate just how difficult that will be. The USA's absolutely hopeless as it has a national envy complex that's been drilled into its culture--Keeping up with the Joneses, social-climbing, and other manifestations are rife. Cuba has had to deal with that issue since Castro came to power; and as we saw today, it must fight it every single day.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 13 2021 1:31 utc | 132

The prevalence of inauthentic social media accounts puts the lie to claims Cuban protests are "grassroots and organic". The inauthenticity likely spreads to posters such as "Cuban", as most here sussed out rather quickly. But this is early days for what Morales recently described as a new "Operation Condor".

Posted by: jayc | Jul 13 2021 1:58 utc | 133

The pile on here was rather sad to see. Cuban may or may not be a troll, a cia plant, or whatever else he was called today. I don't know, and neither do any of you. What you do know is that he disagreed with you. Maybe he believed what he said, maybe not. Again, you don't know. Maybe he, like me, reads here regularly but doesn't usually feel the need to chime in, but this was a topic he feels strongly about and wanted to make a statement.

Way to promote an open minded discussion, where the best ideas prevail. Does everyone feel superior now?

I can do nothing but shake my head at those who spout such trite phrases as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" as if this simple minded statement represents some real wisdom. The enemy of my enemy is my enemies enemy, nothing more, nothing less. Can I use that to my advantage? Maybe.

To befriend an enemy simply because he dislikes someone that I also dislike is fucking stupid and short sighted. I would have thought that most reasonable adults learned the folly of that in junior high school.

All in all, if I had recommended this site to someone as something to read with intelligent analaysis and commentators, I would be thoroughly embarrassed if this comment section was that persons first experience here.

Go ahead and flame on me now.

Posted by: David F | Jul 13 2021 2:01 utc | 134

@"Cuban"

Cuba's geography may mean choosing between one totalitarian regime or another. If that's the case, I choose the one that can ensure there is enough food for everyone.

So, the one in power now, then? I can go to Miami right now and find people eating out of dumpsters and trash cans. Being US aligned doesn't mean food or medicine will be plentiful or evenly distributed. Look at the prosperity and free enterprise of US-friendly countries like Haiti for an example of how far imperial alignment really gets you. Harder to find outright starvation in Cuba than in Haiti, Colombia, or even the poorest American states like Mississippi and Louisiana (Geaux Tigers), despite persistent material precarity aggravated by the US blockade.

You mentioned earlier that Cubans aren't allowed to own businesses. This is a wild lie. I know most Americans can't go to Havana to see them, but private enterprises exist in Cuba in the form of cooperatives and classic bourgeois proprietorships. These, too, suffer under the blockade, as they are prevented from buying inputs from their nearest neighbor, which also happens to be the single most important economy in the world because it issues the world's reserve currency.

Posted by: fnord | Jul 13 2021 2:08 utc | 135

I just went and viewed the Disclose.tv Twitter link that b provided of the actual crowd and decided to scroll down through some comments....

Surprise, surprise, but what do I read but both Mike Pompeo and Ted Cruz talking about American freedom like it exists other than in their delusional mind.

Last I checked America's freedom left with the creation of the privately owned/controlled FED in 1913. The disintegration of the US since 1971 is prime example of what freedom means to financialized Americans....free to be further in debt if you aren't the chosen or inherited ones.

I would challenge Cuban to show us barflies that his motivations are other than for personal profit and return to inherited feudal control of Cuba society.....in this civilization war with global private finance Cuba has led the moral way of service to its people and humanity over the Western way of cult financial control and ongoing colonization...and yes, its people have been forced to suffer as a result of standing up to empire on its shores.

I want to also challenge Cuban to explain away the destruction of Puerto Rico by empire in its attempt to show up the Cuba way.....empire even provided free college to Puerto Rican students and look at the country now.....totally beholden to empire and never really repaired since 3 years of hurricane damage starting in 2017 and a couple of earthquakes.....it seems empire has given up on paying to make Puerto Rico look good in comparison to Cuba.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 13 2021 2:15 utc | 136

Nice that we have a gusanos, who lived off US taxpayers money which most likely includes money from marginalized and illegal immigrants from other Latin America country, telling us that live in Cuba is bad because of communism, conveniently ignoring the blockade all the while calling himself Cuban while living in Florida.

Posted by: David F | Jul 13 2021 2:01 utc | 134

This blog mostly, if not always, takes on the stance of against US imperialiasm. If you're commenting and replying from the position of ultra privileged gusanos who shill for the US empire and not even a single instance recognizing all the worst thing happened under US intervention, of course you will get "piled".

Don't naive and playing the victim.

Posted by: Hangar | Jul 13 2021 2:17 utc | 137

Weren't large pools of oil discovered in the gulf waters north of cuba in their territorial waters. I haven't heard much about it lately, but, if true, that is a valuable natural resource that the US wants control of, even if they just steal it. Venezuela and Cuba - oil.

We've seen this scenario before.

Posted by: naiverealist | Jul 13 2021 2:30 utc | 138

fyi
speaking of Mexico - more than one leader in latin america has it right


https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1414614545990098955

Ben Norton @BenjaminNorton
·
Mexico's President AMLO called for foreign nations to stop intervening in the internal affairs of Cuba.

He said that if it truly wants to help, the US should end its illegal 60-year blockade.

---

https://twitter.com/SpiritofHo/status/1414568075043737600

Danny Haiphong @SpiritofHo
Cuba, a country far more destitute than the US because of sanctions, outperforms the "home of the free" in home ownership, unemployment, infant mortality, and life expectancy.

Marco Rubio and his stooges want to turn Cuba into the country-version of the Miami condo collapse.

---

https://twitter.com/nwbtcw/status/1414407554340462594

Tovarisch @nwbtcw
You know what they don't have in Cuba? GoFundMe campaigns for healthcare. Tent cities and parking lots full of working class people without homes. Natural disaster victims who are asked what kind of insurance they had.

https://twitter.com/nwbtcw/status/1414408234270662662
In Cuba new parents have a *year* of paid parental leave. How many workers in the US are forced to leave behind their newborns and return to work before they've even healed from labor? That's the freedom we're so eager to export?

---

https://twitter.com/AlanRMacLeod/status/1414606560416915465

Alan MacLeod @AlanRMacLeod
A couple of thousand people marching in Cuba has received more media coverage than seven years of genocidal war in Yemen.

Ask yourself what that says about the role of media in society.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jul 13 2021 2:49 utc | 139

karlof1 @ 132

I understand, I was thinking about the country post revolution not pre-revolution.

My feelings are Castro was left in place because all he had to offer the Empire was sugar which was easily obtainable elsewhere. They liked having that strategy of tension on the border. The Empire never filled Cuba with Nazis to look over things like they did in Central and South America because they just were not that important to them. Banana's, copper, oil and the like were much more important to them.

The revolution was successful by default. Clearly the Empire placed a great deal of effort in controlling things in other regions. If they really wanted they could have invaded Cuba and installed a puppet regime and just murdered the opposition like they did all over the world. The list of countries where that happened is endless.

I love the Marxists take on things. I actually used to work with some of the top Marxists the Bay Area. They are the smartest people I have ever seen on everything politics except when it comes to Marxism itself. Too much theory, not enough reality.

Posted by: circumspect | Jul 13 2021 3:02 utc | 140

I didn't read one post by the troll - not one. But I did read all the responses, and that has been valuable.

Yes, one typically wouldn't feed them, but the chance to present some truths about Cuba was obviously too good to miss, and his slanders were too stupid to need refuting in their own terms. And the need to speak up for Cuba was compelling.

It's been a nice thread. I'm very gratified to see how many here are solid in their support for Cuba. When one considers the permanent blight enacted against that nation, and the devastation that should have happened, it becomes apparent that it took a very strong character to endure and prevail. Character alone - the character that seems to come from a Communist party, just by the way and purely as a surmise.

Now, Cuba is a hero in the world for her medicine and her generosity. And I recall that a few decades ago her soldiers in Africa were pretty good too. And people into permaculture say that Cuba's gardens and the food she grows are among the best in the world, almost miraculous given the starvation of resources she is subject to. (Of course, permaculture is kind of miraculous anyway.)

So, to the empire of gangsters 100 miles to the west, if ever there was a country qualified to repeat the old taunt, it's Cuba, saying: "No, it's not fuck me - it's fuck YOU!"

~~

Cuba. So sad for the oppression from the US, so sorry. So grateful for the light you shine, the light of possibility. What a light you shine in this world.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 13 2021 3:03 utc | 141

And let's never forget this lovely moment when Raul decided he didn't want a US patronizing hand on his shoulder:

No hugs for Obama: Awkward moment with Castro at Havana presser

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 13 2021 3:15 utc | 142

@Posted by: Grieved | Jul 13 2021 3:03 utc | 141
You said,

I didn't read one post by the troll - not one. But I did read all the responses, and that has been valuable.

So there was some good that came out of a troll.
This time guano created fertile ground.
Guess the last laugh was on the troll (and his sockpuppets)

Posted by: librul | Jul 13 2021 3:47 utc | 143

" I blah blah suck blah bitty blah Empire blah blah cock "

Posted by: Cuban | Jul 12 2021 17:57 utc | 007 Bond, Cuban Bond

..

Oh Hey "Cuban"- you should have seen the shelves here last year...not a roll of toilet paper to be found anywhere in Rich America...

Have you toured Guantánamo Bay lately?

You know the U$A's most popular Cuban Tourist attraction...next to Hotel California.

This songs for you chump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a3nG57nFjg

I like to be in America!
O.K. by me in America!
Ev'rything free in America
For a small fee in America!

Posted by: CitizenX | Jul 13 2021 3:48 utc | 144

Posted by: circumspect | Jul 13 2021 3:02 utc | 140

"The revolution was successful by default. Clearly the Empire placed a great deal of effort in controlling things in other regions. If they really wanted they could have invaded Cuba and installed a puppet regime and just murdered the opposition like they did all over the world. The list of countries where that happened is endless."

This is false. They try in their Bay of Pigs invasion. Their current MO in South America where they directly supported violent gangs and dictators can be traced back directly in their efforts to counter growing communism in South America spearheaded by powerful popular locals such as Che Guevara. The invasion of bay of pigs itself wasn't the end of it's hostile military action against Cuba.

Did Cuban missiles crisis and subsequent military project of the US against Cuban peoples really memory holed to you ?


"I love the Marxists take on things. I actually used to work with some of the top Marxists the Bay Area. They are the smartest people I have ever seen on everything politics except when it comes to Marxism itself. Too much theory, not enough reality."

Uhhh didn't they patently proved to be better on theory and reality that both Chinese and Russian has better educational programs for their scientific advances ?

Besides Karl Marx tried to make something else out of the materialistic and vain ways the peoples are living on his era. The main proponents of his writings the 'capitalist' offers nothing, no egalitarian solutions other than sticking with old feudalistic tradition.

Posted by: Lucci | Jul 13 2021 3:53 utc | 145

This "whatever unrest wherever it is is a US color revolution attempt"-meme is gradually developing into a running gag.

Covid-19 is the worst global public health event in the last century and it has induced the worst global economic crisis for decades. Economic problems increase social tension and lead to political instability. What we see in Cuba right now and we are going to witness all over the world in the next months and years is that the Covid-19 economic crisis will amplify pre-excisting problems. Governments everywhere are going to get under preassure.

Posted by: m | Jul 13 2021 4:29 utc | 146

@143 The nasty troll has gone now librul. You're safe. Don't relax just yet though. There may be more out there.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 4:44 utc | 147

Good morning all.
I guess I'll take the medal, the troll got nervous and sent me to hell "kindly". I guess he was never a fan of "His Master's Voice" records.

Posted by: Paco | Jul 13 2021 4:56 utc | 148

Why would Cuba want anything produced by exploited labor in the US? Or be financed by our financial system?

Posted by: Kevin | Jul 13 2021 4:58 utc | 149

https://apnews.com/article/cuba-protests-3772cca0298adac7ce8947ff3aac48c8

Derp-a-derp; purty much, eh? Emphasis and parenthetical entries mine.

Large contingents of Cuban police patrolled the capital of Havana on Monday following rare protests around the island nation against food shortages [try buying beef (bad for you) or toilet paper in the US when the pandemic hit] and high prices [see: numerous articles about hyperinflation coming to the USA] amid the coronavirus crisis. Cuba’s president said the demonstrations were stirred up on social media by Cuban Americans in the United States.

Cuban is certainly paid. I'm just not sure whether b should be insulted or encouraged that Uncle Scam and the ex-pat Cubano Langostino community only paid for one to come here.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 13 2021 5:36 utc | 150

Aside from Cuban unrest of some dimension, the Haiti assassination, and South African riots there's also something going down in Colombia very recently.

This one, even though 50+ people have died, does not seem to be gathering much attention from US media for some reason. Recall the Colombia (location of seven US bases and supplier of significant amounts of narcotics) seems to have also supplied the muscle for the Haitian killing, in conjunction with a couple Haitian-American US citizens who would have been able to help them navigate a French-speaking country.

Posted by: Billb | Jul 13 2021 7:41 utc | 151

If one looks at any Caribbean or Central American nation that isn't Cuba one finds a far more miserable population, even Mexico which should be booming has a higher level of poverty and deprivation than Cuba. Some people are not keen on a centralised socialist government but if the people living in Cuba felt that way rather than this opinion from second or third generation Cuban-amerikans, who've been fed amerikan propaganda and deceits from the moment they first draw breath until they finally expire, making them totally incapable of objectively assessing any society let alone a socialist one nothing meaningful much less accurate can be gleaned.
I have posted many times before on why we cannot consider the opinion of an Iranian amerikan or jewish amerikan to be anymore qualified than any other amerikan, they have all been (mostly unwittingly) indoctrinated.
As for actual Cubans, that is people born in & still living in Cuba the best cure for them is a trip to Guatemala or Haiti where 'free enterprise' has made a society that is truly dysfunctional, with more poverty, more starvation and an insane amount of crime. One where schoolkids are exploited in every way imaginable by cruel gangsters because amerika cynically abused their country, indulging in ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population compounded by deliberate corruption of those who are descended from African slaves.

I actually don't want to see amerika lift all its sanctions. All the secondary ones that prevent other nations trading with Cuba - yes they need to go anything less is hypocritical. When I was a trade unionist and comrades in other industries were getting screwed by arsehole bosses, we would get behind our comrades and refuse to have members provide goods or services to the bosses not listening to workers.
That was kyboshed by neoliberal governments and later entrenched in so-called 'free trade' agreements. They are called secondary boycotts. amerika's free trade agreements always make maintaining the illegality of secondary boycotts a part of their free trade agreements, but what are these sanctions which prevent other nations from trading with Cuba other than a series, a *tranche* of secondary boycotts. Talk about hypocritical!

The reason I do not want to see amerika lift its direct sanctions against Cuba is because amerika has always treated all of Latin America as theirs. All resources belong to amerika and all people in Latin Amerika aside from Cuba & Venezuela are regarded as amerikan assets, aka slaves.

People around here have been cheering amerika's departure from Afghanistan, but I haven't. The 20 years of amerikan occupation is easily enough time for greedy amerikan arseholes to have corrupted elements of the Taliban.
I'm not saying they definately have, but given the way the world works and the louche way amerika has abandoned Afghanistan, this is a cause for concern.

It seems likely that they have corrupted the Iraqi and Libyan governments in the much shorter time they occupied those nations, than the twenty years of Afghanistan.

IMO Cuba 'opening up' to amerika would be the certain death of the little engine which could.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jul 13 2021 8:09 utc | 152

@Smith (no. 5)

Failed in HK.
Failed in Japan.
Failed in Belarus.
Failed in Russia.

Now they run out of space and have to do in Cuba.


I understand the other four. But Japan? Must be something I've missed. When was that?

Posted by: joey_n | Jul 13 2021 8:24 utc | 153

dh @ 59

"I don't know precisely how it works in Cuba but unless people actually own the property they live in they tend not to maintain it very well."

Really? I had a long-time neighbor who actually spent money replacing windows in a rental that he and his wife were living in: they did much more (sadly they had to move because the owner was selling). And I have ALWAYS made the place where I reside BETTER than when I found it, regardless of whether I was "renting" or I "owned" it. Perhaps the reason why this statement of yours has any semblance to reality is because the people living in rentals are the rentier class, they tend to be more economically challenged and don't have the money to keep up with maintenance; but, actual maintenance should be something that the landlord is responsible for (and many slumlords are to blame for the neglect).

Posted by: Seer | Jul 13 2021 8:52 utc | 154

@ joey_n

There was multiple BLM protests last year in Japan. 3000 people attended, lot of hypes from international media and nothing come out of it.
https://globalvoices.org/2020/06/27/june-2020-a-month-of-blm-in-japan/


Posted by: Smith | Jul 13 2021 8:53 utc | 155

This crap has been going for MANY decades (pushing over a century now). Smedley Butler wrote about it in "War Is A Racket".

Add govt power and capitalism's insatiable greed (grow until you die [as you literally kill many]!) and this is what you get.

The dilemma of lifting sanctions on Cuba is that this would be another way of opening up Cuba for exploitation. I suppose that if Cuba were to be able to deal with decent countries, not the US, then they might escape exploitation. I believe that the best way forward is for countries to just hang in there long enough for the US to collapse.

Posted by: Seer | Jul 13 2021 9:30 utc | 156

VK, max, down south:

Having two currencies:

-- One for locally produced gods and services, circulated with in the country, and controlled locally.

-- One for imported gods, paid in foreign currency that a small subordinate country has no control over.

is a great idea. It let the Cubans grow their local economy in a hostile environment. It nothing short of saved the revolution in the nineties.

After the revolution, please remind me not to make you lot ministers of finance.

[Refusing to accept dollars in banks, and now merging the two currencies is a sign of strength. Is the Cuban economy strong enough? Remains to be seen.]

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jul 13 2021 9:34 utc | 157

...so for the 'why now?': might be that the Cubans seem to be going for complete dedollarisation. Might also be that shit just tend to happen, and a certain country never hesitates to jump on the band wagon.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jul 13 2021 10:20 utc | 158

Cuban "refugees" are thugs and criminals. All of them except the older ones who ran away from taking responsibility for their crimes after the revolution, and those ones are worse: death squad gangsters. Some of the vilest and most villainous scum in America are Cuban "refugees". Their presence in southern Florida makes that place a crime infested shithole. The US State Department (CIA) relocates their head choppers and death squads from other places where regime change operations fail to southern Florida because it is already ruined by the lowest lowlife scum Cuba ever produced having ended up there. Whole neighborhoods are filled with CIA killers and torturers in storage for the next regime change attempt. It is where the CIA goes when it needs to hire some dirtbags to be the trigger men in an assassination because there are plenty in that region for whom that kind of behavior comes natural... ruined subhumans.

To the liberals in the forum, you are suckers if your heart bleeds for Cuban "refugees" because they would not even hesitate to make your heart bleed for real. And they would shiv you with a smile and sleep deeply afterwards without even the faintest hint of remorse. They are monsters... orcs, and as we can see in this thread, trolls.

Never base your evaluation of Cubans (or Hondurans or Nicaraguans or Venezuelans or ...) on the kinds of trash you come across in southern Florida. The ones in southern Florida don't even count as human.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 13 2021 10:46 utc | 159

David F @Jul13 2:01 #134:

Cuban may or may not be a troll, a cia plant, or whatever else he was called today. I don't know, and neither do any of you. What you do know is that he disagreed with you.

Cuban *is* a troll. Not because he disagreed with prevailing opinion but because his comments were classic concern trolling. He wasn't interest in considering other points of view. Cuban was the one with a closed mind not the moa commentariat.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 13 2021 12:16 utc | 160

Jörgen Hassler @Jul13 10:20 #158: ...so for the 'why now?'

See my comment @Jul12 23:05 #105.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 13 2021 12:22 utc | 161

@ Jörgen Hassler (#157),

Comprehend clearly what I stated. You’re misconstruing and showing your ego. You’re nobody to make anyone ministers of finance. Get off your high horse. Stay on the subject matter and focus to comprehend, instead of being driven by ego.

Never stated two currencies was the problem. What I stated was, “It clearly shows the mismanagement of currencies by the Cuban administrations,” (#28). The mismanagement was not because of two currencies but their financial execution. One can mismanage with a single currency too.

Posted by: Max | Jul 13 2021 12:33 utc | 162

David F @134: "To befriend an enemy simply because he dislikes someone that I also dislike is fucking stupid and short sighted. I would have thought that most reasonable adults learned the folly of that in junior high school."

I take it you are talking here about the sick freaks who want the empire to sanction, bomb, invade, and assassinate the leaders of their own countries because their granddad's whorehouse was shut down after a revolution there more than half a century ago? I agree, those people are seriously messed up. Any Cuban who supports sanctions against Cuba, Venezuelan who supports sanctions against Venezuela, Iranian who supports sanctions against Iran, Syrian who supports sanctions against Syria... such fools are bad news. I think the term for them is "useful idiots"; useful for the empire.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 13 2021 12:52 utc | 163

Observing our troll (@Cuban aka @jinn aka @agin) I think he works in 3s.

If the troll is not being fed he can start a conversation with himself.
Using a pair of sockpuppets that are more reasonable (camouflaged) than himself
others can be baited to join the conversation.

Of course the above is my opinion, take it or leave it.

In this thread there was a silver lining, the troll's guano created fertile ground
and the last laugh was on the troll.

Posted by: librul | Jul 13 2021 13:32 utc | 164

Max:

I read the aljazeera piece you presented as evidence of your claim. Commented on that.

Sorry I included you, forgot why a shouldn't talk to you.

Jackrabbit: that's a possibility. But I think these are just random protests, happen in any country from time to time. Not a color revolution.

But if you are referring to the media campaign, deflection might a reason for it.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jul 13 2021 13:38 utc | 165

Classic Concern Trolling! That was the term I was looking for. “Cuban” got treated to an epic down-dressing MOA style. It was nice and civilized, plenty of information and rebuttal. I always look for the telltale phrases like. “I don’t like ‘______’ any more than the next person BUT….” Or. “Wont any please think of the poor starving people” (as if the USA would help with that….). Then finally: “ You people are savages with no heart”. I love it, boiler plate script! The shitheads who like to manipulate and control, and they may have a metric shit’ton of $$$$, but they will never have the best and the brightest.

Posted by: Chevrus | Jul 13 2021 13:41 utc | 166

From watching the news, there's also supposedly a "rainbow" revolution going on in Georgia -- the government is being handed ultimatums to resign over gay rights. The official response is that it's a lame attempt by Saakashvili to return to power. Presumably gay rights isn't the most appropriate vehicle in a religious-conservative country like Georgia.

Posted by: Skiffer | Jul 13 2021 13:42 utc | 167

Ha ha hah. I've just come from Turcopolier and Pat Lang has gone full-on Right Wing Crank re Cuba. On with the eye-patches and blinkers, switch off the grey matter, and soak up some MSM bullshit. There's a pic of Cubans "fleeing socialism" in rafts made of rubbish.

Naturally, ahem, not a word about US Sanctions aimed at diminishing the lives of Cuban Civilians.
So Brave... So self-righteous... So Christian.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 13 2021 13:59 utc | 168

Cuban is like that dope that feigned concern for women's rights in Afghanistan.

Posted by: arby | Jul 13 2021 14:58 utc | 169

Masters of the Universe
Rulers of the Earth
We decide who lives or dies
which laws and lies are birthed

No one would love them
if not for their nukes
the blackmail the sanctions
and CIA spooks
the stealing and lying
the torture the spying
the starving and dying
and flag falsifying

they are vulgar and crass
and bold as brass
and expect everybody
to kiss their ass
the exceptional nation
whose main occupation
is forced subjugation
and world domination

don't dare to point out
their crimes or hypocricy
or they may decide
to send in the democracy
Until the great fall
that ends the Cabal
we must put up our fronts
and bow to these l....ovely folks

Posted by: ld | Jul 13 2021 15:07 utc | 170

Related:

Kuchma told how the Ukrainian authorities deceived people in 1991

"We to some extent deceived these people when we said that Ukraine feeds all of Russia, we considered everything that is produced in Ukraine at world prices, and not what Russia just supplied us," he shared.

This is likely a problem of the machine translation, but it seems Kuchma wanted to say that the official narrative was that Ukraine was feeding Russia at lower than world prices, and because of that it was poorer than it should be. If Ukraine get out of the USSR and sold this food at world prices, then it would be rich and prosperous.

If that's true, than it's very lamentable. It is already proven a nation-state will always be at deficit against industrialized nation-states (Theory of Dependency). Ukraine would never be able to be a developed country only by exporting grains: as exports rose, the inelasticity of the commodity would bring the grain prices crashing down, while the prices of the manufactured goods would spike up (this would manifest itself in the sharp devaluation of the Ukrainian fiat currency vis-a-vis the manufacturing exporting country). This is what happened to Brazil, South Africa and many other countries who thought they could be First World without ever industrializing.

To make things even worse, that was precisely the debate that happened in the USSR during the interregnum period (from Lenin's death to the first Five-Year Plan). There those like Bukharin who outright defended the USSR should postpone the industrialization of the country forever in the name of guaranteeing the appeasement of the rich (kulak) and middle peasant. And there were those like Stalin who defended that, in the absence of help coming from the outside (which was the case), the USSR should go all-in on rapid industrialization - which could only come at the cost of the rich and middle peasant (i.e. the agricultural sector). Nobody in the USSR thought the country would ever be prosperous without industrialization, just the speed and the means of reaching it.

It seems the Ukrainian elite of 1991 forgot even their own past. They represent an involution to the era of the Mensheviks or the SRs, which means an intellectual regression of some 75 years or more.

He continues:

According to him, having gained independence, Ukraine was engaged in self-destruction and squandered all scientific, technical and human potential.

He cited the situation with the arms trade as an example, noting that once Ukraine was the main supplier in the world, but later "without a fight" lost ground.

"There was not enough wisdom, willpower ... by and large, there was not enough intelligence. But it is not those who made decisions and decisions that pay off for this," the former head of Ukraine emphasized.

Intellectual degeneration (imbecilization) is one hell of a drug.

[I will also repost this on the Open Thread, as I think it fits both, for different purposes]

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2021 15:16 utc | 171

Re: Cuba,

one thing came across my eyes when viewing the manifs: Lots of fat bellied people.

Claiming lack of food, no less!

Posted by: CarlD | Jul 13 2021 15:26 utc | 172

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2021 15:16 utc | 171

Your post is related to the article published today by Putin, referenced in my previous post. Here machine translation of a paragraph:

In the difficult 90s and in the new millennium, we provided Ukraine with significant support. Kiev uses their own "political arithmetic", but in 1991-2013, only due to low gas prices, Ukraine saved more than $ 82 billion for its budget, and today it literally "clings" to $ 1.5 billion of Russian payments for the transit of our gas to Europe. Whereas with the preservation of economic ties between our countries, the positive effect for Ukraine would amount to tens of billions of dollars.

I'm sure you will find the article very interesting since it is a brief historic summary.

http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

Posted by: Paco | Jul 13 2021 15:31 utc | 173

Chinese extraofficial take finally out:

Cuba denounces US ‘subversion’: Beijing urges Washington to lift blockade against Havana

A Chinese who lives in Cuba told the Global Times on condition of anonymity Tuesday that police patrolled almost each block in Havana's Playa district where most of his friends live, and people are living their lives in an orderly manner.

He said the protest simultaneously took place in several cities on Sunday, which mainly involved unemployed young people.

"This proves that the protest was premeditated," he said, noting some of the protesters held American flags, chanted typical American slogans such as "Libertad." He and many of his colleagues and friends in Cuba believe the US was behind the protest.

And:

After the protest, several countries including China voiced support for the Cuban government and called on the US to lift the blockade against Cuba.

[...]

On Tuesday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said China firmly supports Cuba's efforts in combating COVID-19 and maintaining social stability and the US should fully lift its blockade against Cuba, as, just like Cuba said, the US blockade was the root cause of Cuba's problems, including medicine shortage.

China believes that under the leadership of the Cuban party and government, Cuba will surely maintain social stability, Zhao said at a routine press conference.

Some Chinese netizens also went to the commentary section of the Weibo account of the Cuban Embassy in China to express their support to the Cuban people and its government while alerting Cuba of US' incitement and interference in its internal affairs.

"Come on, Cuban people, please be united and let the 'color revolution' incited by the US go bankrupt," a netizen said.

The Cuban ambassador to China also talked about the role of social media. It is obvious Twitter received a tip (i.e. a direct order) from the USG that a twitterstorm would come and to allow it to run rampant. Twitter must be, for all intents and purposes, treated like para-governmental institution. It's useless to consider it as anything else.

Blinken has already formally denied the USA was involved in the protests.

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2021 15:34 utc | 174

@ Jörgen Hassler (#157),... Here you go again with your nonsense and baseless attacks. Again, you didn’t comprehend my posts and neither do you show any intelligence. The article in (#28) wasn’t shared as evidence but in the context of Cuba’s monetary history. Neither does the article blame Cuba’s problem on its dual currency system. So, your accusations and analysis are baseless, like you have done in your past engagement.

The article clearly states that Cuba DEVALUED in 2021. Any nation that devalues its currency will have challenges and internal strife. Name a nation that has managed its devaluation without challenges. This is the reason the Financial Empire exploits this economic reality to create chaos in a nation and is a prelude to its further attacks. It is essential that a nation vulnerable to the Empire’s ploys be careful and manage the monetary transition diligently.

Cuba’s GDP fell by 11% in 2020. Hard currency receipts were just 55% of planned receipts in 2020, while imports fell 30% compared to 2019. Cuba needs international currency to purchase on the international market; over half the food, fuel, medicines, and other vital resources consumed on the island are imported, hence the unfilled shelves and long queues. An environment ready for an internal CHAOS.

Monetary and currency exchange unification is not a measure which will, in itself, resolve all of the economy’s current problems, but its implementation is indispensable to re-establishing the value of the Cuban peso and its function as money; that is to say, as a unit of account, payment, and savings. It would do better by getting help from China, Russia, EU and LATAM to take care of its people’s needs. The Empire will harass and exploit its challenges.

Posted by: Max | Jul 13 2021 15:45 utc | 175

Sanctions 4EVR

You know what this really means. Even when these protests lead to absolutely no change, it means that Biden will have to keep these inhuman sanctions in place for as long as he is President because the Brian Kilmeade's will harangue him, 'WE HAD CUBA ON THE ROPES ! ! !'

Even CNN will join in on the chorus. For some reason it is considered noble to hurt civilians a lot in order to disrupt govts you don't like just a little bit. This is the exact opposite of noble.

We didn't have to do this to Poland or Romania but for some reason it is a good idea to do this to Cuba, Venezuela, Yemen, Syria, and Iran. 'It's for the children'

The failure of sanctions proves the necessity of sanctions

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jul 13 2021 15:55 utc | 176

@ Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jul 13 2021 9:34 utc | 157

The idea was to extinguish the CUC in order to accept USD directly. The plan worked.

The problem is the USG realized the plan worked and simply blocked the flow of USD to Cuba. There are USD 1.5 million frozen in Cuban bank accounts right now. The Cuban families abroad also cannot send USDs to their families in Cuba either.

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2021 15:55 utc | 177

CarlD @ 172

"one thing came across my eyes when viewing the manifs: Lots of fat bellied people.

Claiming lack of food, no less!"

Not a dietician, I take it... Here's a term for you that could fit what is happening: "Empty calories." Carbohydrates are a road to hell (diabetes); it's the primary component that is pimped almost everywhere (much like corn to feedlot cattle).

Posted by: Seer | Jul 13 2021 16:25 utc | 178

i'm sure another comment has mentioned it, but what an odd "coincidence" that this is happening within a week of haiti's president being assassinated. biden seems to be going hard on that whole "monroe doctrine" thing lately.

after hong kong and belarus this is getting embarrassing. the same small, dinky little crowds. the same millenial yuppies. the same signs printed - for some reason - in english. also while we're still being told how "horrific" and "traumatizing" it still is that a bunch of dorks from flyover states trashed the capital 6 months ago.

you'd think they'd have noticed they're only preaching to the choir at this point but then this is a very cloistered bunch of socially retarded idiots so...

Posted by: the pair | Jul 13 2021 16:50 utc | 179

Seer @178: "Carbohydrates are a road to hell (diabetes); it's the primary component that is pimped almost everywhere (much like corn to feedlot cattle)."

It is pimped everywhere that trades with the US because that is what the US exports. How does that apply to the protests in Cuba? Perhaps the ones protesting are the same ones who have the money to pig out on unhealthy grey market imports from the US?

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 13 2021 16:51 utc | 180

Diet high carb: yucca, potato, rice, flour, sugar cane (molasses), banana, tropical fruit, ...
low carb: chicken, eggs, fish, pork, lard, dairy, green vegetables, sea weed, beef, beans, ...

I'm certain I am forgetting stuff but the point is that aside from sea weed, I'd say that if I was very poor, I'd bloat up on carbs. Actually, I'm feeling bloated just writing about it. There are accessible items on the low carb list but overall, I'd say that the high carb list is cheaper.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jul 13 2021 17:06 utc | 181

"Cuban was the one with a closed mind not the moa commentariat." Whatever you say silly rabbit.

"I take it you are talking here about the sick freaks who want the empire to sanction, bomb, invade, and assassinate the leaders of their own countries because their granddad's whorehouse was shut down after a revolution there more than half a century ago?
Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 13 2021 12:52 utc | 163"

I was talking about ignorant fools who don't see the illogic of such a statement. They are almost as ignorant as those who keep looking to Smedley Butler as some sort of hero for exposing the hypocrisy that he gleefully and voluntarily partook in for about 30 years. I guess he didn't see what it was really about until the day before he wrote that book.

How was cuban in stating his dislike for the leaders of his country, any different from the commentators here who have such disdain for the US? (I am not saying that disdain is not warranted, I just want to know why you can feel that way about your leaders, but he cant feel that way about his).

This place is becoming a stupid fucking joke. Do people here really think that what they are doing here is such important work, that the cia is sending in people to disrupt that work, by typing words on a computer screen that disagree with the regulars here? Get a fucking grip man!

This place used to be interesting, now I can pretty much tell you what a poster is going to say, simply by looking at the posters name before I read the post. I guess I should just read b's posts and disregard the comment section in the future.

Posted by: David F | Jul 13 2021 17:19 utc | 182

Last I checked Cuba isn't an empire sanctioning, blockading, bombing, and invading other countries to rob them of their wealth. The United States, on the other hand... well, let's just say there is a difference between the two.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 13 2021 17:29 utc | 183

@ Posted by: David F | Jul 13 2021 17:19 utc | 182

The difference is the context.

You don't see citizens of the failed capitalist states of Africa posting here asking for help to topple their own governments. There is no user called "Senegalese", "Malian" or "Libyan" here.

Critique to the USA is the exception, not the rule. This blog is an exception to the rule. The USA is one of the most beloved and most defended regimes in human History. Even those who don't specifically love it, at least rationalize for their eternal preservation and hegemony on the grounds that "History is over", and that "it is the least worst option" (T.I.N.A.).

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2021 17:34 utc | 184

This will fit in a thread about Cuba, a Telegram post by Zakharova reacting to a French functionary lecturing Greece about recognizing patients treated with “eastern” vaccines, that is to say Russian and Chinese.

It is not for the French Foreign Ministry to dictate to countries and peoples what vaccines to use. Obviously, the French Foreign Ministry is offended for his own country, which has not been able to develop its own vaccine. The failed efforts of French companies, which tried very hard, but failed. We sympathize with France's failure. One could honestly say to Clement Beaune: France was unable to produce its vaccine, we envy everyone who could, we have been tasked with propaganda methods to counteract the success of countries that have demonstrated the achievements of their science to the world.

Some would like to see Cuba as part of the triangle, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, but Cuba has been playing in the first leagues for over six decades, true with great sacrifices for its people, but I’m sure most Cubans know what the alternative is. That is something, Cuba over France, an ant defying an elephant.

Posted by: Paco | Jul 13 2021 17:35 utc | 185

@ Christian J. Chuba | Jul 13 2021 17:06 utc | 181:

Without derailing the subject too much, let me point out that beans are hardly "low carb"; in fact, they're mostly carb, with few exceptions, such as peanuts, which are not nuts but beans, and soybeans. Some, like pintos, also have high glycemic index levels approaching sucrose; black beans are somewhat better. So despite the (somewhat overrated) "completing the proteins" virtue of consuming beans with grains, you may still get the kind of sugar rush that puts on the pounds and, in some cases, facilitates diabetes.

This isn't to say that beans are unhealthy; the fiber content alone may spare you from a colectomy in your golden years. But they're not low carb.

Posted by: corvo | Jul 13 2021 17:50 utc | 186

I just googled 'supermarkets havana cuba' and to my surprise they are now plentiful. When I was there about 15 years ago there were just a few government run grocery stores and some farmers co-ops. I have no idea who owns the malls. And I don't know if the shelves are groaning with consumable goods but the photographs show plenty of happy shoppers.

I also did some research on property ownership in Cuba and apparently lots of ordinary Cubans own their own houses which they are free to buy and sell.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 18:01 utc | 187

@David F

While I share some of your concerns that the commenters here are too quick to cast any protest movement in any country whose government is not US-aligned as a "color revolution," "Cuban" was not merely criticizing the Cuban bureaucracy (which deserves 'ruthless criticism' from Marxists and anarchists), but calling for a US-backed regime change, neoliberal shock therapy, and the imposition of "liberal democracy" on a population in which only a minority explicitly or implicitly wants this. All of this would be disastrous for Cuba, as it was disastrous for the Eastern bloc, resulting in millions fleeing and dying the imposition of market and political liberalism and the evaporation of the economic security afforded by welfare state socialism. Ironically, of course, the vast majority of these emigres ended up in Western European countries where working class victories had yet to or couldn't be overturned from above without massive resistance. Polish workers in the UK, Estonians in Finland, and so on.

Whether he knows it or not, "Cuban" is doing the CIA and State Department's propaganda a service by repeating here to us. Just as he has a right to use this comment section for that purpose, we have a right to reply.

Posted by: fnord | Jul 13 2021 18:02 utc | 188

David F @Jul13 17:19 @182

We see this all the time: as soon as a troll is identified, some troll sympathizer claims we were too harsh and that we are hypocrites.

Cuban's arguments became increasingly shrill and unhinged as he repeatedly argued for a capitalist Cuba. He wasn't interested in hearing why his capitalist dreams were impractical and could lead to worse problems. Concern trolls are pig-headed to a fault, pretending that their opinion is as valid as any other and that their concerns trump every other consideration. What they are really doing is simply being disruptive.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 13 2021 18:06 utc | 189

Cuban"s concern trolling would do well on Democracy Now. After all, Amy Goodman enthusiastically supported the Orange Color Revolution in the Ukraine in the name of Democracy, brought on the useful idiot, Kanan Makiya to celebrate the US bombing his country with depleted Uranium in the name of Democracy, championed the Syrian "Revolution" and their heroes the head-chopping White Helmets in their beige and purple get-ups which would have made Hugo Boss proud, enthused over the Lybian "Revolution", and even brought on "Turning the Tide" imperial snitch (Pat Tillman) Noam Chomsky to gush over "the people" during the fake Arab Spring fandango. (100,000 people in a country of 100 million is not "the people.)

(Say what you will about Al-Sisi, the plan under Morsi was to use the Muslim Brotherhood the break-up Egypt by attacking the Coptic Christians -- 20% of the population -- similar to the Syrian plan, and Al-Sisi stopped that cold, saving the lives of millions. After Nasser, Egypt began a slow descent into oblivion, but is now turning around. Egypt is still beholden to the Gulf Monarchs, can't do much about Israel, but it is re-industrializing, has a multi-lateral foreign policy, is increasing it's regional influence, and the poor are not doing worse.)

Back to Amy Badwoman, she uses the same concern trolling techniques as Cuban: "But he's a madman, a dictator, an authoritarian", "He's killing his own people," etc. She also uses the same technique Cuban (why do these trolls make their names so obvious? "Are you Cuban?" "At least as Cuban as Mark Cuban.") does, and b so often debunks, inflating the numbers of "protestors," taking that number to represent "The People," and not listening to evidence contrary to their assertions. (The CIA has determined that you can pull off a successful "Democratic" color revolution with less than 10% of the population. How much less is anybody's guess. Essentially, this means some bought off generals who promise several brigades loyalty, a criminal class who will act as thugs and enforcers in return for leniency and a hand at the till in the ensuing rape of the countries assets, a handful of corrupt wealthy comparator elites who will profit personally at the expense of their fellow countrymen, and their children, the spoiled but idealistic useful idiots in college who have the time to organize in the name of Democracy, and always believe that they know more than their authoritarian rulers. Yeah, that's "The People," that's "Democracy" for ya. Hip, hip, hooray.)

So, Amy has mastered the use of these concern trolling techniques, along with her perfect concern trolling voice to intentionally mislead an entire generation of people who, at least, think they are leftists and anti-empire. Now, some may claim that there never was an American Left -- but then who was buying all the Michael Parenti books and Phillip Agee books, among others?

Now, I'm not claiming that Amy Goodman is a CIA asset, a la Operation Mockingbird. But I am arguing that IF the CIA put its own asset into that position I can't see how they could have been any more successful at misleading and de-mobilizing the Left.

Anyway, our Cuban friend would fit right in there.

Posted by: Malooga | Jul 13 2021 18:07 utc | 190

@187 I should add that the shopping malls feature food courts complete with pollo frito and papas fritas.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 18:08 utc | 191

@ David F (#182),

@ fnord (#188), good points, thanks. One needs challenge the thesis without personal accusations, which diminishes the value of their counterpoints.

In the social media world, “People gang up on others, especially strangers and those whom they dismiss, often on sketchy evidence, as being opponents or enemies. People love those who are like themselves.”

It is interesting to see on MoA, that commentators resort to personal attacks. Personal attacks needs to be discouraged so barflies focus on the subject matter. Trolls modus operandi is personal attacks and accusations, to digress from the discussion theme. It is good to challenge assumptions, hypothesis, opinions, theories,... Diversity of thinking is a strength.

Nextdoor’s neighbours are not kind to strangers

Posted by: Max | Jul 13 2021 18:15 utc | 192

VK @177:

Last I heard Cuban banks stopped accepting dollars because they can't use them.
Link

That's four weeks ago, has it changed?

Taken together with the suspension of the convertible it looks like complete dedollarisation to me. Bold move in the face a serious crisis. Will it work? Looks shaky, but the Cubans have pulled shit off before.

If it works it would set an example that might give Biden & co quite a headache the years to come.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jul 13 2021 18:17 utc | 193

@189 I engaged with Cuban for a while because I was curious to see if he had a solution to the Cuba/US dilemma. He lost me when he started comparing totalitarian regimes.

I must say I object to being told who I can talk to.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 18:18 utc | 194

@Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 18:18 utc | 194

Would you object to being called a sock puppet?

Posted by: librul | Jul 13 2021 18:25 utc | 195

dh @Jul13 18:18 #194

How long would you indulge a disruptive presence? How long before another troll shows up to do the same? How long before the comment section is destroyed?

Cuban was given an airing. He had his say. But he wouldn't accept valid criticism from multiple other people.

As a troll he was very successful. We are STILL talking about him instead of the machinations in Cuba and the region.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 13 2021 18:30 utc | 196

@195 Anonymous fools on message boards can call me what they like. Water off a duck's back.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 18:31 utc | 197

This was worth a centerpiece headline?

50 well fed "activists" got their picture taken near the White House.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jul/13/cuban-americans-march-white-house-demand-biden-giv/


He called on the White House to establish a formal relationship with the leaders of the protests against the island nation’s communist regime.

These well fed Cuban-Americans named their activist group...wait for it...MORE

Posted by: librul | Jul 13 2021 18:34 utc | 198

@196 I would just lose interest. I'm happy to let b do the police work.

He certainly struck a nerve. He must have known that any criticism of the Cuban utopia is taboo.

Posted by: dh | Jul 13 2021 18:35 utc | 199

@ David F | Jul 13 2021 17:19 utc | 182... david.. feel free to skip the comment section... cheers..

@ Jörgen Hassler | Jul 13 2021 18:17 utc | 193.. thanks for that article... this would definitely explain some of the dynamic going on at present..

@ dh... it is interesting watching your steep learning curve here on the topic of cuba, lol....

Posted by: james | Jul 13 2021 18:37 utc | 200

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