Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 15, 2021

Open Thread 2021-054

News & views ...

Posted by b on July 15, 2021 at 13:05 UTC | Permalink

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Max @ 42

What kept JFK up at night was Lem Billings. Look it up.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 16 2021 17:43 utc | 101

c1ue | Jul 16 2021 16:41 utc | 98

Thanks for the "tip" and link in @94.

All of those levels/ages (Mesozoic, Devonian, etc.) existed after the the earth had already become oxygen rich. The searches are now carried out for specific or typical rock formations from the first periods of oxygen based "life" accepted for the planet. Great. These explain the normal methods of prospecting for Gas or Oil.

(I hadn't realised "petroleum" is considered in a different class from both Oil and Gas)

However, my comment refers to periods that predate even them. ie. At the formative time that the earth was still volcanically very active and without oxygen at all. (ie, Methane and sulphur etc.). Barren. The start of the whole process being the idea of cyanobacteria forming oxygen. A worldwide green sludge may seem fantastic, but the period necessary for the entire atmosphere to be converted from one to another atmosphere has to be incredibly long. I don't know whether it is realistic to expect some bacterial trace of that period to still exist today.

Just to hypothyse that IF traces exist - in enough volume to be measurable, then they would forceably be found in bedrock (ie Granite etc.) or below. (Basalt is another question.). Thus abiotic could be "biotic" but based on a bacterial deposit layer.
*****

One counter indication for my idea is that water would have also to be present in large quantities, or at the very least spread evenly, but not too deeply across the world's surface.

*****

I do not have "dog in this hunt" either, but I enjoy trying to push the boundaries of an accepted consensus. Cyanobacteria would be the "start" of life in my scenario. Where they came from is the next difficult question.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 16 2021 17:59 utc | 102

@Stonebird #102
Thank you for the expansion.
I guess the question would be: what kind of remains exist when a cyanobacteria dies? and who/what uses it?

Note that one of the things which the WVU presention talks about is that there have to be conditions where the biomass is not recycled.

It isn't just sufficient to have a carpet of cyanobacteria all over the world - there also have to be conditions where the dead cyanobacteria or whatever aren't recycled by living ones. A modern swamp is one example: the water is generally anoxic and so there isn't a lot of life to recycle matter at the bottom of swamps.

The presentation notes specifically that in the eras in question - the ocean's lower layers were warm. This prevented the cold upwelling currents we see today which recycle low oceanic level matter into the upper ocean and in turn resulting in those prehistoric ocean bottom layers being anoxic.

We do know that these upwellings are major biological drivers in the ocean today.

I have no idea how valid this chain of reasoning is - but it is far more nuanced and detailed than "4 legs good, 2 legs bad" type biotic vs. abiotic arguments - and furthermore supported by a lot of real world validation in that the reasoning and arguments used in this theory were successfully used to find oil and natural gas.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 16 2021 18:46 utc | 103

Well, it is useless to argue with people who have no clue about important science like thermodynamics and chemistry.

Here's a paper from the journal Physical Chemistry: Synthesis of Complex Hydrocarbon Systems at Temperatures and Pressures Corresponding to the Earth’s Upper Mantle Conditions

Note the very firs sentence in the abstract:

The development of the theory of abyssal abiotic petroleum origin [1], as well as any other theory, is impossible without reliable and reproducible experimental data. In this work, we presented the result.

That is the entire difference right there. Biogenetic oil has NEVER been able to be reproduced in the laboratory. Which doesn't even qualify it as a 'theory' under basic scientific method.

Abiotic oil is quite straightforward to reproduce in the lab. It has been done since the 1950s in the Soviet Union, and this paper also carries out a rigorous experiment and details the results.

Here is another paper in the journal Geochemistry:

The Nature of Biomarkers in Oils

Recently, new facts providing evidence for the deep origin of oil were obtained. The system of hydrocarbon bonds in compounds of natural oil is metastable.
All heavy HCs are thermodynamically less stable than methane and hydrogen stoichiometric amount) at low pressures.

According to the statements of equilibrium thermodynamics, methane cannot transform into heavy HCs at low pressures and low temperatures.

Btw, this same paper mentions the industrial Fischer -Tropf process which I had mentioned already.

Also of note is that he paper discusses 'biomarkers' found in oil, and how they managed to get there. Therefore this presence of biomarkers doesn't prove biogenic origin of oil.

Another good discussion here:

The theory of the abiogenic deep origin of hydrocarbons recognizes that the petroleum is a primordial material of deep origin [Kutcherov, Krayushkin 2010].

This theory explains that hydrocarbon compounds generate in the asthenosphere of the Earth and migrate through the deep faults into the crust of the Earth. There they form oil and gas deposits in any kind of rock in any kind of the structural position (Fig. 1).

Thus the accumulation of oil and gas is considered as a part of the natural process of the Earth’s outgassing, which was in turn responsible for creation of its hydrosphere, atmosphere and biosphere.

So a very important point there---the earth's outgassing created our surface environment of oceans and atmosphere. This SAME NATURAL PROCESS that creates hydrocarbons.

Abiogenic Deep Origin of Hydrocarbons and Oil and Gas Deposits Formation

Now it has also been mentioned that some oil could be the result of biogenic process, namely by the means of subduction by tectonic plates which slide under an adjacent plate and thereby also pull down the layers of he crust above---which could contain peat bogs and other biomass.

This sounds reasonable as an assumption. But the actual mechanism of this process has never been descried. And when we consider the very great depths at which the tectonic plates are located, it seems unlikely that biomass close the surface could in fact be drawn into the great depths of the upper mantle, where the temperatures and pressure are high enough. No one is saying this isn't possible,but it has not been proven. It is just a thesis.

And finally a good layman article on the subject. This might be a good place to start.

Swedish Scientists & Geologists: Fossil Fuel Theory Busted


Posted by: Gordog | Jul 16 2021 19:01 utc | 104

Gordog | Jul 16 2021 19:01 utc | 104

Ah well, cyanobacteria are out as a source of Oil. They were only an extension of the idea that oxygen came from somewhere. It was highly unlikely that bacterial remains would have been preserved as a biomass anyway as c1ue said.

Thus the accumulation of oil and gas is considered as a part of the natural process of the Earth’s outgassing, which was in turn responsible for creation of its hydrosphere, atmosphere and biosphere. Obviously I must be secret methane breather. There is plenty of it around.

****

Your first two links don't come out. They return to front page of MoA. Possibly due to his problems though. The last link tells me I have an Ad blocker, which is strange as I don't, but am using Kapersky anti-virus as a protection. No worries. Will try to look into it tomorrow.


Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 16 2021 20:02 utc | 105

R > Gordog> nice to read, thanks, about what I thought.In re primordial outgassing, see also https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1980SciAm.242f.154G/abstract

"The Deep Earth Gas Hypothesis"... not to boost ScAm.

Posted by: Walter | Jul 16 2021 20:28 utc | 107

For those interested in the virus, here is a page of useful links:

http://www.ianmcauley.com/coronavirusresources.html

Posted by: Paul | Jul 16 2021 20:56 utc | 108

@Posted by: vk | Jul 15 2021 20:40 utc | 54

The climate is in effect changing, but at this point in time, not naturally nor out of the effects of citizenry daily life and consum, but through manipulation.

There is a current wave of heat with temperatures rising to 50 degrees in UAE, and they are bombing the clouds with drones to provoke heavy rains...

A group of Spanish metheorologists have written a letter to the Spanish government calling its attention ot the massive spraying of the country´s atmoshere with chemtrials...
This had never happened before...

There is an strange summer in Europe, in certain parts of Spain it there are temeperatures more porper of March and even February, and I guess yo uhave heard of the cathastrophic floods in Germany and Russia...

Past year, we made through the summer quite better than this one without vaccines but with the usual goood weather, as coronaviruses are seasonal viruses.
Yet, this year, with a climate in summer resembling that if the autum, a new wave of infection sures with which to justify a call to vacciante the youngest and in pasing curtailing further our rights and freedoms...

Who would need a new round of vaccines before the whole scam unveils itself as the times goes? Who were relying in the astronomic earning from vaccines, $3500 million, to solve their accute economic crisis?

Call me paranoic or whatever you want, but someone is manipulating climate for spurious interests as they were noticing this will not hold till the natural autum.....

Of course, some unscrupulous politicians like Macron are in a rush to take advantage to crush their people by advancing the neoliberal reforms they never could pass before..

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 16 2021 21:21 utc | 109

@Posted by: Asha K. | July 16, 2021 at 21:21

BTW, that that temperatures rise to 50º C in the desert is far from being new, some a decade or so ago, where the Ahaggar meets the Teneré I traveled way over that temperature, it is difficult to move yourself in the middle of the day, but still you go on...

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 16 2021 21:29 utc | 110

Stonebird, sorry about the bad link.

Abiogenic Deep Origin of Hydrocarbons and Oil and Gas Deposits Formation

The others seem to work okay for me.

Posted by: Gordog | Jul 16 2021 21:42 utc | 111

Stonebird, try opening the ad-blocker one in Microsoft Edge. Works okay for me.

Geologists: Fossil Fuel Theory Busted

Walter, thanks for that link. I'm familiar with Gold's work. He's done a lot of good science on this.

Posted by: Gordog | Jul 16 2021 21:48 utc | 112

@Gordog #104
It is an interesting writeup.
If in fact oil is truly of primarily abiotic origin - then it seems likely the governing factor might be the geologic formations which trap the hydrocarbons.
Are these unique to the geologic eras in question?
It would further seem likely that there would all manner of surface and near-surface oil deposits, such as were originally in Pennsylvania, all over the world. Is this true?
Latly, have these theories been tested by drilling using some other basis for oil discovery?
As an engineer, I am far more interested in success and results than nice theories.
The paper notes some examples where supposed areas that are devoid of oil/natural gas from the "American biotic" theory have been found to have deposits - but I would like to hear from experts on the biotic side rather than take the word of a paper expressly written to say the opposite.
I have to say though - all things considered - it would be great if the abiotic theory is correct. It isn't that we're going to run out of oil anytime soon - only oil at ultra low prices - but maybe even that is untrue with abiotic.
In which case the climate change doom people are really going to have their work cut out for them.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 16 2021 22:08 utc | 113

I hesitate to speak with so many people deep in the science of oil here, but from a lay perspective it seems clear that oil was found in permeable rock formations - fossiliferous or sandy - and it kept on being found there, so that was where you kept on looking as the low hanging fruit was used up and gave way to the need for more elaborate explorations.

And it worked. Everyone assumed the oil originated where it was found. And even developed a reasonable theory about it, which no one really saw any need to test as long as the spice kept flowing. But the Russians said that permeable rock was simply the easiest path for deep oil to migrate towards the surface.

And then the Russians stopped talking to the west about this, not simply because academic scorn was one thing, but perhaps also because strategic considerations were yet another.

And the Russians found oil where no one else thought to look.

~~

And maybe all this has been said in all the scientific discussion previously - I looked for it but only saw the first inkling in c1ue @113.

I leave the science to others - and apparently we leave the oil to the Russians ;)

~~

ps..when places like China come up with finds of large oil reservoirs, I often wonder what the back story is to that.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 16 2021 22:31 utc | 114

C1u, have a look at that link I posted in 111, which didn't come through originally. This is by far the most comprehensive discussion of the issue, with dozens of references to notable journal papers.

As for practical results, this author's conclusion is that just 6 percentof Saudia's oil is anything other than abiotic.

Ukraine has over 50 wells where no conventional geology would expect. And the rate of success in drilling explortory holes is an impressive 57 percent. All of the other world oil regions are discussed in detail too!

Posted by: Gordog | Jul 16 2021 22:37 utc | 115

@ Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 16 2021 21:21 utc | 109

Well, ok, but you have to come up with a better or at least equally possible hypothesis that can be scientifically useful. Just calling the Global Warming hypothesis "a lie" won't do humanity any favors.

Greenhouse effect is very well explained scientifically, and, so far, is the best thing we can use to predict global weather with at least some hint of precision. You have to have a hypothesis that predicts better, otherwise you're just being anti-scientific. "There's nothing we can do", unless mathematically proven, is the logic of the religious fanatic, not the enlightened scientist.

--//--

@ Posted by: Gordog | Jul 16 2021 21:42 utc | 111

You're giving yourself up. Abiotic theory is pseudo-science.

Biotic origin theory explains everything satisfactorily. There's no need to come up with anything else.

Petroleum, natural gas and coal are all biotic, so even if you use the example of converting coal to oil (synthetic oil), you're still within biotic hypothesis territory (the biotic origin of coal is even more easily and elegantly explainable than the petroleum one).

Posted by: vk | Jul 16 2021 23:22 utc | 116

@clue

Just read the damn free booklet that was that was linked by Gordog@111 already for a nice overview.

If you really do appreciate engineering then have a go at this much more detailed report.

@vk

Give up already. I can can claim the most outlandishly weird theories, but you'll still be the village idiot. Your ideas about "science" are hopelessly childish and naive. Proclaiming your opinions to be true because of some impressively unarticulated "science" is not terribly convincing.

Posted by: Lurk | Jul 16 2021 23:51 utc | 117

The existence of a biotic/abiotic hydrocarbon argument is bizarre. The sole issue is "are we going to run out soon?" The answer (IMHO) is "yes we surely will." Is global baking about to happen? The answer (IMHO) is "yes it surely will, perhaps just after the a very brief (decade?) solar minimum." There are abiotic hydrocarbons, the simplest of which is interstellar methane, and I thing some slightly more complex gases. And only dying stars can produce elemental carbon, and biological organisms are not dying stars.

The situation of our running out of economically viable energy seem to have just about no solution. But do see:
Focus Fusion Society

We could manufacture enormous rafts covered with heat-reflecting low-E glass. And these could be deployed with barges that operate in the same manner as spring-loaded vertical drop-in dish dispensers. These would reflect useless infrared light energy (responsible for about 50% of the heat) back out into space.

Posted by: blues | Jul 17 2021 1:05 utc | 118

China’s Xiaomi overtakes Apple in global smartphone market

That Xiaomi overtook Apple is not news: China is the industrial superpower. Also, Apple is not at risk: it is so financialized nowadays that it is more a hedge fund disguised as a smartphone and notebook and tablet company; cheap Fed loans at zero interest rates is all it needs to keep its dominance in the world market.

What is news is this part:

“Xiaomi is growing its overseas business rapidly,” Canalys Research Manager Ben Stanton stated in a press release, noting Xiaomi shipments have soared 300% in Latin America and 50% in Western Europe, compared to last year.

The CGTN news is more complete: it mentions Xiaomi's sales also rose by 150% in Africa.

So, we're witnessing a process where Chinese industry is not only growing over the hegemonic Western industry: it is doing so while developing the productive forces of the Third World.

Posted by: vk | Jul 17 2021 2:47 utc | 119

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1462045/china-news-south-china-sea-philippines-world-war-3-joe-biden-xi-jinping-blinken

Hmm, I don't remember Phillipines asking for help.

The US is desperately trying to bait China.

Posted by: Smith | Jul 17 2021 3:04 utc | 120

Paul Craig Roberts has an excellent summary of the pandemic and its many falsehoods. The writing is very readable and extremely concise, and I found every single claim that he makes to be true. For those who were gripped by the interview with Dr. Martin that was being linked here a few days back, Craig Roberts ends his piece with that interview.

It's very readable and with many links, and I highly recommend it:
How the Covid “Pandemic” Was Orchestrated

Paul Craig Roberts has come in for quite some criticism over recent years, and I have made my own share of it. In fact, I haven't read him for some time. But this piece is very good.

I always used to read him on economic matters some years ago, and he was a valuable resource. Like many of us, he was compelled by events to venture outside his expertise to try to understand and write about various political and geopolitical matters. He said from the beginning that he was venturing outside of his field, but that people asked him questions and trusted him to tell the truth, and so he felt obliged to delve into other fields.

I always admired his humble modesty for that, and I have never doubted his sincerity. But he doesn't always match his subject matter, in my estimation. However, in this case he does, with his excellent report of how the data is being held in thrall to what I have called a marketing campaign.

Sometimes, reading such a clear and plain recital of the facts of the last year and a half, one could simply weep.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 17 2021 3:17 utc | 121

https://japantoday.com/category/national/japan-asks-airlines-to-halt-new-bookings-as-olympic-traffic-rises#comment-2533289

Olympics in Japan is turning into a disaster, athletes infect japanese, japanese infect athletes, chaos is running loose while Kingpin Bach is saying "cancelling the Olympics is not an option". No shogun, no emperor, no samurai to save them.

This is the state Japan is at now, the people must rise up. This is the fruit for being American vassal.

Posted by: Smith | Jul 17 2021 4:00 utc | 122

@ John Cleary | Jul 16 2021 8:36 utc | 76 quote - "If you like, it is a parallel government which manages foreign affairs.

Buckingham Palace has more than seven hundred offices, and space for hundreds of cars. What do all those people do?"

thanks john... i will be more careful with my use of the term HMG.... a funny thing.... on that thread it was used a number of times before i even mentioned it... i was mystified by the acronym.. HMG.... when i figured it out, i was pretty proud of myself! thus i used the full term... i have never heard this term before! i claim no great insight into the parallel gov't set up, although i think it was the poster debs who shared the long video on the city of london - i am forgetting the title... - the spiders web - i just remembered... yes... i get it.... thank you.. so maybe i mis spoke... here in canada i have been communicating how we have to get rid of our connection to british royalty.. it is an anachronism that needs to be let go of.. it is an uphill battle making people aware of these details... thanks for your efforts in this regard... don't be shy about using the open threads for anything... cheers..

@ 121 grieved... i enjoyed paul craig roberts article.. a bit american centric, but still it covers a lot.... ditto @ BM's link.. funny enough it was grieved who linked to dr. peter mccollough a few months ago... he is now calling the mrna vaccines - bioterrorism... interesting way to frame it..

Posted by: james | Jul 17 2021 4:24 utc | 123

Below is a short Xinhuanet posting showing China's quiet growing proficiency in space exploration

"
BEIJING, July 16 (Xinhua) -- A reusable suborbital carrier landed stably at an airport in Alxa League in north China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region during a flight demonstration and verification project on Friday.

Earlier on Friday, the carrier was launched from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in northwest China's Gobi Desert. Its first flight mission was a complete success.

Developed by the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, the reusable suborbital carrier can be used in the space transport system.

The success of the flight has laid a solid foundation for the development of China's reusable space transportation.
"

The dog (Elon Musk) barks and the caravan rolls on....

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 17 2021 5:15 utc | 124

This is the state Japan is at now, the people must rise up. This is the fruit for being American vassal.

Posted by: Smith | Jul 17 2021 4:00 utc | 122

Yep, they need a revolution, they have a lot of deadwood at the top, like the UK, and like with this place here, I don't think that is what will happen. Not going to be that lucky.

The parasites always come back, you have to clean them out every so often, like with Ivermectin.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 17 2021 6:37 utc | 125

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-covid-vaccines-protect-against-the-delta-variant/a-58263950
"In the United Kingdom, at least 259 people have died after contracting the delta variant of COVID-19. Of these, 116 people were fully vaccinated."

Posted by: Mina | Jul 17 2021 7:11 utc | 126

HREF="https://www.rt.com/usa/529455-nasa-executive-covid-relief-fraud>Former NASA executive jailed for Covid-19 relief fraud, spent $300K on credit cards, cars, Disney resorts

Every crisis is an opportunity, I guess.

Posted by: vk | Jul 17 2021 10:28 utc | 127

Former NASA executive jailed for Covid-19 relief fraud, spent $300K on credit cards, cars, Disney resorts

Every crisis is an opportunity, I guess.

Posted by: vk | Jul 17 2021 10:32 utc | 128

Mina | Jul 17 2021 7:11 utc | 126

This shows the real "side" effects.
Or lack of them.

One reason for the propaganda blitz is that the scam must become visible soon. I tried to post a short comment along these lines in the FT. It was "refused" by the algo even before being read by a "human". You need to scroll down the tweet. There may be too many "cases" (causing panic) but many are found to be "positive" only within two days of being admitted into hospital.

https://twitter.com/James_Townsend9/status/1415651819162898439

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 17 2021 10:50 utc | 129

As a new proof, if more were needed, on that the whole "green" issue is an alibi to squeeze the working class, the EU exempts the green tax on private jets....

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 17 2021 11:42 utc | 130

UNH Micheles Bachelet uses an image of a revolutionary protester on July 11 to illustrate a tweet in support of anti-communist opponents, the user complaints and denounce the illegal use of her image through her TRwitter account, and gets banned by "Minsitry of Truth" Twitter...

https://twitter.com/bademjanbitch/status/1416259963266076674

Yet, Bachelet has never said a word about protests, tortures and killings of activists in Colombia and Chile...

https://twitter.com/FLagos_Neumann/status/1415727404870426625

The UN is, obviously part of the globalist fascist project....Russia says nothing....

Fake Cuban news:

That Viral 'Protest' photo of Cuba is actually from May Day 2018, Raúl Castro and Miguel Díaz-Canel led the march of nearly one million Cuban workers....

https://twitter.com/Gizmodo/status/1415977531845398531/photo/1

Real Cuban news:

Massive demonstration on the Malecón in Havana in support of the Revolution and socialism, against the criminal US blockade. #CubaNoSocialista #CubaSoberana #CubaSocialista

https://twitter.com/ComisionOctubre/status/1416344144092569606

Globalist neolanguage:

From the creators of "surrogacy", "ethical consumption", "energy poverty", "housing poverty", "dynamic policies", "vulnerable consumers" and "menstruating people", now comes "population with severe material deprivation", instead of the classic poors of solemnity... Incidentally, they are always the same....the fake imperialist left...

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 17 2021 11:59 utc | 131

@Grieved #114
The WVU slide set shows pretty much all of West Russia and Eastern Europe as being "biotic petroleum rich". I didn't look closely to see if the Dnieper region is outside of the boundaries outlined in the slide, but it certainly isn't far outside of it.
Secondly, I would note that the theories outlined in the WVU paper do not preclude all other forms of accumulation. An ancient swamp the size of Rhode Island could easily form a sizable deposit via the biotic method but be otherwise invisible to discovery through any other means based on historical analysis.
The first link posted in #94 actually lies outside of the West Canada area shown in WVU - yet the company in question, based on biotic oil theories, has had success finding (relatively) small but feasible quantities of hydrocarbons in Eastern Canada.
Thus yet again, this is evidence that people are achieving success in finding hydrocarbons via exploration based on the biotic theory.
It may well be that the geologic formations are what matter - but I would be personally shocked if no one has tried said formations outside of "prime biotic oil" areas before.
Let's not forget that even exploration within said prime areas come up empty far more than they do success.
Once again, this is indicative of something because it is empirical success, not theory.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 17 2021 12:06 utc | 132

@Gordog #115
I actually had read the paper and saw that assertion.
However, I discarded it because the calculation is not rigorous.
It is based upon (I will assume) existing measurements of the organic layer underlying the Saudi oil fields - on concordance with the WVU presentation.
The problem is: this organic layer is unquestionably the post-oil formation leftover - thus any measures of carbon content, size of layer, etc is cannot be representative of the actual original starting biomass whether biotic or abiotic. Only if you assume petroleum is abiotic, could this calculation be of value.

Put another way: it is like estimating the energy content of a gas tank of unknown size by examining the fossilized dregs at the bottom of said tank, empty.

Nor are the biomarkers particularly convincing either.

We can reasonably assume that the formation of oil occurs via a high pressure and temperature environment - that is well demonstrated experimentally.

We can also reasonably assume that the accumulation occurs under specific geologic formations - oil molecules spread evenly throughout a given crustal layer is of no use to anyone.

The problem is that paper relies on unproven assumptions of the entire process, including:
1) that biotic oil forms in "ultramafic" rocks
2) that biotic oil formed in "ultramafic" rocks would derive a visibly different profile than oil elsewhere
3) that these markers can not change as oil migrates from formation point to accumulation point
4) that these markers don't degrade over time

The 5th point: there was no comparison in the snippet visible where unquestionably biotic oil from other areas was compared with the West Siberian oil. The bit that I saw only said that the Western Siberian oil doesn't have these markers and they "should".

And the most important 6th point: Let's say all the assumptions above are true/valid.

It still doesn't prove a damn thing about oil overall since it may well be that the West Siberian oil is, in fact, abiotic but is also not representative of economic oil deposits anywhere.

As I noted before: it could well be that there is both abiotic and biotic oil. There is nothing anywhere that states it can be only one or the other; as such any broad statements saying A or B are suspect.

Other items of interest: Among the links - one of them mentioned large meteor impacts as being a proximate cause of oil formation. This seemed a little outlandish, but their arguments are interesting: if diamonds can be formed by meteor impacts, why couldn't said impacts also provide sufficient energy/pressure to cause carbonaceous rocks to form oil?

Ok, fair enough, that's actually reasonable at its face.

But again, these theories only matter in the real world if they are both actionable and achieve results.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 17 2021 12:35 utc | 133

Following up from the above set of assumptions in the abiotic paper:

3) that these markers can not change as oil migrates from formation point to accumulation point

The US frackers, as I understand it, are basically drilling for "condensate". Condensate, as I understand it, is basically pulling the heavier bits out of natural gas - the already mostly liquid bits. It isn't "petroleum" from a traditional well but both petroleum and condensates are processed anyway to get gasoline, kerosene etc.

Well, if we're talking about migration from formation point to accumulation point - particularly as a gas, then further potential post-processing via pressure, time, temperature, whatever for millions of years - it is extremely not obvious to me that the nature and composition of resulting oil wouldn't change.

The process, sped up and upside down, might look like the electrophoresis step in a DNA profiling getup.

In case you're not familiar: the "bands" or "rings" in a genetic profile are nothing more than relative accumulations of DNA snippets, by size, from a processed input pile of DNA. The cuts are made at arbitrary points under a set of fixed assumptions. I haven't looked really deeply enough to ascertain if these break point assumptions are reasonable or the modern equivalent of phrenology - neither would surprise me.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 17 2021 12:47 utc | 134

Former NASA executive jailed for Covid-19 relief fraud, spent $300K on credit cards, cars, Disney resorts

Every crisis is an opportunity, I guess.

Posted by: vk | Jul 17 2021 10:32 utc | 128

I think what annoys me most about those charity grifters and embezzelers is the way they just immediately piss all the money away on things like Disneyland and expensive cars they can't afford, won't be able to insure, and will not be able to drive for fear of losing their "investment". Talk about successful propaganda.

And I want to post this rumination:

Plagues and empires

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 17 2021 12:59 utc | 135

Random question

Does anyone have any info/sources on the Second Reich, German Empire, and Canada? I guess at that time it would be relations between the British monarch and the German Empire, but specific to Canada??

Asking for a friend. :-)

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jul 17 2021 13:00 utc | 136

Random notes, but because war hasn't happened to a developed nation for so long, all these high rises buildings (with 50 floors and above) are basically giant death traps in any city.

Posted by: Smith | Jul 17 2021 13:24 utc | 137

Clue, let's try to sum up this discussion.

On the one hand, we understand perfectly well how hydrocarbons form under conditions of extreme temperature and pressure. And this has been proved by experiment.

On the other side, we know only that the 'biotic' theory seems to predict reasonably well, where HC deposits should be located.

We also know that biotic HCs cannot be produced under lab conditions. The only way is by the Fischer-Tropf process, which is exactly the conditions under which abiotic HCs are formed.

So the argument seems to be that the geology that predicts 'biotic' oil must therefore prove the origins of that oil from biomass.

But where is the link? The cause and effect?

Ie, the 'biotic' geology does not preclude the migration of abiotic oil from those abyssal depths, into those same oil-bearing formations.

Posted by: Gordog | Jul 17 2021 13:48 utc | 138

Petty bourgeoisie finally shows its hand:

Social distancing, minimum wage hike drive small businesses to brink

The plan was simple: support any kind of conspiracy theory possible in order to legitimize any kind preventive measures. Send the working class to death on the altar of their profits.

Petty bourgeois are little monsters. The only reason they're not big capitalists is because of their size.

Also, South Korean capitalism is clearly maxed out. There's no room for anything else in macroeconomic terms.

--//--

News from Brazil - the land of HCQ and Ivermectin (the so-called "preventive treatments"):

Propaganda dos “médicos pela vida” sobre “tratamento precoce” foi bancada por farmacêutica da Ivermectina

[Rough translation of the headline: Ivermectin pharmaceutical paid for "Doctors for Life"'s propaganda campaign promoting "preventive treatment"]

Yes, the campaign involved real doctors, with real diplomas. They were essentially bribed by the pharmaceutical. Yes, even "experts" (doctors are not scientists) can deliberately lie if you pay them enough.

--//--

Japanese cower from Olympics they don’t want and should not be happening

The 2020 Olympics is the story of a greedy and corrupt Organization desperately fighting for its very survival and a decaying and degenerating nation desperately fighting not to be humiliated by China on the propaganda front.

In this fight of titans, it's the tiny and defenseless mass of Japanese people who will suffer.

--//--

It's not a weekend clipping if there isn't a David Brooks op-ed:

The American Identity Crisis (for-fun read)

Posted by: vk | Jul 17 2021 15:23 utc | 139

@Gordog #138
I dispute the summarization as follows:

On the one hand, we understand perfectly well how hydrocarbons form under conditions of extreme temperature and pressure. And this has been proved by experiment.

We know one way hydrocarbons form in the laboratory. Laboratory work, by definition, is under a very constrained set of conditions which is normally fine, but in this case may not be representative of the geologic time that is part of this particular equation.

There is an enormous difference between laboratory/textbook chemical reactions, for example, and industrial scale chemical engineering.

On the other side, we know only that the 'biotic' theory seems to predict reasonably well, where HC deposits should be located.

Agreed. Proof is in the pudding (or oil bloom).

We also know that biotic HCs cannot be produced under lab conditions. The only way is by the Fischer-Tropf process, which is exactly the conditions under which abiotic HCs are formed.

We only know that this has not been done. We cannot know if it is impossible or there are key ingredients missing (see geologic time above).

Nature has created its own nuclear reactors - but they operated under very different time scales and conditions than man-made ones.

So the argument seems to be that the geology that predicts 'biotic' oil must therefore prove the origins of that oil from biomass.

Disagree. This is again simplistic.

What I noted was that it seems geologic structures play some part in both theories:

a) biotic = origin of biomass (from geologic age of strata layer) plus collection
b) abiotic = collection only

Then exploration success based purely on geologic structures could be one way to evaluate.

I am not a geologist, but it seems highly unlikely to me that the specific structures in question (various geologic traps, salt basins etc) are unique to the paleozoic era.

But where is the link? The cause and effect?

Ie, the 'biotic' geology does not preclude the migration of abiotic oil from those abyssal depths, into those same oil-bearing formations.

Correct - it is certainly possible that collection of abiotic origin oil is converging into biotic structures. However, if this is correct, then this again focuses on the collection structures per above - which is to say that the structures are what matter - not the paleozoic era biomasses.

Thus one possible way to acquire more, distinguishing data, would be exploration based purely or mostly upon just collection structures. In other words, exploration based on purely geologic features as opposed to the paleozoic age + geologic features.

Ideally it would be explicitly not-paleozoic age structures.

To me - this would be interesting but I can equally see how potential investors and oil company executives would not be particularly excited at the highly risky prospect of spending tens to hundreds of millions of dollars just to prove biotic vs. abiotic. Success - wonderful. Failure = fired.

Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter. At some point - the biotic methods will run out of area to explore - at which point alternate methods will have their day.

To emphasize:
Just because we don't know it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist much as there are many situations where phenomena happen but we don't know exactly how. In my realm - electronics - there are many structures used in literally hundreds of millions of everyday devices for which we don't actually know precisely how they work. They just do.

The flash memory cell is an excellent example. For all other semiconductor devices, the device models function based on data-derived secondary parameters - current going into a gate, voltage across terminals, that kind of thing. Transistor models are thousands to tens of thousands of lines of code along with data tables etc.

The flash memory device, on the other hand, is 4 lines of code: if voltage at barrier structure is X, then voltage at storage structure becomes Y. The device was created based on accident, explained using quantum mechanics, but we really don't actually know why X voltage works vs. X-20% nor can we model it except via the simplistic workaround noted above.

Another example would be the Hall effect. The effect was documented early on, but the engineering capability to model, design and use it didn't really come into play until semiconductors. It is specifically why the semiconductor folk refer to current (in p-type semiconductors) as positive holes vs. negatively charged electrons flowing.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 17 2021 16:38 utc | 140

Clue, I think we have come to the limits of this debate because neither of us are expert in geology.

But I do have to take exception to your objection about the abiotic lab experiments. I do have a strong a background in thermodynamics. Geologic time really doesn't come into it. Time is not a substitute for either pressure or temperature. In fact nowhere in the thermodynamic laws will you find the value of time [other than when using them in calculations that we may use those laws to come up with a RATE of change, which is change over time].

A couple of more points. We have been seeing for decades deep wells getting filled up again. We also have very deep wells way beyond the strata where there has ever been any biomass.

The mechanism of HCs being pushed into these favorable geologic locations [ie where 'biotic' theory predicts to find oil] is simply pressure. Pressure increases with depth. Fluids can only flow from higher to lower pressure.

The Russians have proved the abiotic geology with their commercially productive wells in Ukraine and elsewhere. I would say probably the field of oil geology is due for a major rethink!

Posted by: Gordog | Jul 17 2021 18:29 utc | 141

Can someone please help me to make sense of this latest Pepe Escobar / Paul Craig Roberts texts?

I'm kind of baffled that Bozo Brazil's president defends malaria's treatment against Covid (with HidroxiCloroQuine and Ivermectin) and so does PCR and Pepe.

A "must read" on Pepe's Telegram channel:
https://www.unz.com/proberts/how-the-covid-pandemic-was-orchestrated/

Posted by: Need Help | Jul 18 2021 1:08 utc | 142

@142 Need Help

What exactly don't you understand? I'll try to help if you can be more specific.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 18 2021 3:56 utc | 143

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-07-17/russia-offered-us-use-of-central-asia-bases-for-afghan-intel-paper
"Russia Offered U.S. Use of Central Asia Bases for Afghan Intel - Paper"
Can someone confirm this news?

If this is true, WTF Putin? You don't share sheep pent with wolves.

Posted by: Smith | Jul 18 2021 6:02 utc | 144

@ Need Help

At this point, there's no consensus on Covid anymore.

All countries are running with their narrative/alt narrative.

Now even the chinese want their mRNA as booster shot, and the Thai want to mix vaccines, it's a crazy world out there.

Posted by: Smith | Jul 18 2021 6:07 utc | 145

Posted by: Need Help | Jul 18 2021 1:08 utc | 142

Roberts is generally useless for analysis of the modern situation and has no idea about COVID. Tends to get too excited. Nice enough fellow, of course. Used to be a political hack here under Carter or Raygun, I forget which.

Pepe is better, but has some emotional attachments and indulges in some marketing efforts from time to time (which is not "analysis"). He is one of the handful of people I always check out, to see what he says.

While I am here, Meyssan is interesting about what he knows, which is Syria & M. E. politics. I still check him out once in a while. He went full tankie for Trump though, has not shown good judgement about what Western elites are up to, and western culture in general. If I remember right, he is IN Syria, and he does know what he is talking about at times.

Bhadrakumar is another one I always see what he says, but he tends to be too kind to Uncle Sugar and being an Indian diplomat he shares some of their attitudes, just like Craig Murray with the UK or Alistair Crooke.

Nobody is perfect.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 18 2021 6:52 utc | 146

@Gordog #141
Plants create more complex molecules using photosynthesis, yet scientists have been attempting to recreate plant photosynthetic efficiency for well over 100 years now.
It is fairly apparent, at this point, that there are quantum effects being utilized. Thus while we are sure of the inputs and outputs - the hows and wherefores of the actual process have yet to be replicated in anyone's lab.

Given the failures of science to be able to replicate such a common natural capability - the notion that only brute force simplistic heat and pressure is the only way by which the complex molecules comprising petroleum and oil are formed from carbonaceous rocks and/or simple molecules like methane - I would say that it is an assumption of the highest degree, much as laboratory "photosynthesis" is clearly not how any of the 3 major photosynthetic types function in reality.

Thus it may be that the simplistic heat+pressure+input material plus output catch formations is how it works.

The preponderance of evidence is actually against this, though. The biotic oil explanation arose from the successful early exploitation of oil from surface seeps in Pennsylvania, the Middle East, North Africa and other early known oil producing regions. These surface seeps are endemic to all of the areas in which oil has been found.

If in fact oil is formed via other methods - why aren't there surface seeps all over the place? And oil found from these seeps as well?

That's the main problem I have with this abiotic theory being 100% correct and biotic theory being 100% wrong: enormous amounts of oil being produced via completely orthogonal processes vs. biotic theory *requires* the existence of a lot of abiotic oil. Where is it? Why aren't people tripping over greasy spots all over the place?

Maybe it is just because abiotic oil only exists at super deep strata and is never going to be economic. Maybe abiotic oil only is able to filter up into human-accessible layers via the Paleozoic formations. Maybe oil was formed by archean single celled bacteria which then die after sufficient petroleum density occurs, like yeast in bread.

The possibilities are endless and no laboratory experiment can possibly account for them. That's why the scientific process exists.

The extrapolation of complex and huge scale processes via a single lab experiment is not much different than those exercises which calculated the age of the Earth from reading and analyzing a single document (the Bible) or decreeing that continental drift cannot exist because no evidence for it was yet found.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 18 2021 10:11 utc | 147

Despite the almost general informative blackout, even in Russian media, hundreds of thousands marched today in main French cities, Marseille, Nantes, París, Pau, La Rochelle, Toulouse, Metz, Perpignan, also at colonies, like Martinique, against Macron´s dictatorship.

The demonstrations were mostly peaceful, some being headed by health workers in uniform and even some, in an unplanned way, by the police refusing to fight the crowd, while in places like Lyon and Dijon the police threw gas canisters to the crowd....
As the demonstrators were passing, some policemen laid their helmets at the floor, while being responded by the health workers laying their white coeats and red cross vests...

The Yellow Vests movement has joined the protests, and as well some right wing politicians like Philopot, trying to capitalize for the next presidential elections next year.
The left/CNT strangely absent....

While searching for this info through Firefox, my computer went out of service, then turned to my smartphone, to find the same phenomena happen...!!!!
Going preparing for the internet blackout? Was that what CyberPoligon was about? Recall Russia was aboard the "simulacra"...

Most images and best info I found so far by this twitter account under the name "Gillets Jaunes - Anonymous", although I do not trust "Anonymous", whom I deem a CIA front, who may be trying to hijack the protests to pervert/disarticulate/crminalize them...

https://twitter.com/ChalecosAmarill/status/1416491927168602112

https://twitter.com/ChalecosAmarill/status/1416492680637464576

https://twitter.com/MarcianoBobadil/status/1416437124300218368

In front of the resistance by hoteliers to ask their customers for the "Covid Passport", as if they were not French citoyens, stating they are not policemen, some putting in their windows sticks with a moto oppossing these dictatorial measures, the Macron authortarian government announced jail terms plus expensive fines in the dozens of hundreds of thousands, for both, customers and hoteliers, entering/allowing into their business without the "Covid Pass", this way criminalizing the committed taxpayers worst they have done with ISIS "freedom fighters" returning France...

Those submitted "vaccinated" thinking they have avoided punishment, for now, soon will realize the dictatorial measures are here to stay for all, as Fauci himself announces the "vaccinated" will for sure catch Covid-19, and the hospitals are crowded by "vaccinated" people who are really those causing the "5th wave"...( notice the total discoordination of waves numbers amongst the countries joining in this madness, some in the 3rd wave, while others in the 5th, a sign that the governmetns simply follow orders from above and have no clue, even some may have lost the account of waves..it would be hilarious if it not were so tragic and worrying...) Meanwhile in countries like Sweden they seem to de doing a normal life...

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 18 2021 12:11 utc | 148

Interesting--

Beijing’s refusal to meet with the US deputy secretary of state illustrates its worsening relationship with America.

"In hindsight, the Alaska summit was not just political theater, but an indication that things were not actually going to get better and the scope for improved relations is actually pretty limited. The presidency has adopted a nasty habit – as it also did with Russia – of announcing sanctions when approaching dialogue with these ‘adversarial’ states."

Posted by: arby | Jul 18 2021 12:27 utc | 149

Gordog | Jul 17 2021 18:29 utc | 141

Just to thank you for the link yesterday. Which I followed, more or less. I am not trying to intrude into your discussion with c1ue. (Just following.)

I then got sidetracked into the "Anaerobic archaea"* and the production of Methane. Deep, under the lower crust. (*single-celled microorganisms as a primary step)

"Thus, abiogenic synthesis of hydrocarbons can take place in the basic and ultra-basic rocks of the asthenosphere.".

****
c1ue | Jul 18 2021 10:11 utc | 150

Following on from the Donesk basin/Gas-Oil reference. I was unable to find the exact villages mentioned. (Spelling changes, no doubt.) But this provokes a side question, Why doesn't Ukraine simply forage some more, rather than relying on Russian Gas pipelines? What if this area lies under the DPR and Luhansk?

Ukraine. 17 giant and supergiant gas fields were discovered in the Lower Carboniferous age sandstones of the Dnieper-Donets Basin at the depth range of 4500-6287 m. At these depths, the total proven reserves of natural gas is 142.6 109 cu m. The total recoverable reserves of condensate is 2.3 106 t [Gozhik et al., 2006].

******

I ended up finding this "So, as a first step, her group is now hunting Borgs in Californian rice paddies. Lovely image, looking for aliens in rice paddies run by the Chinese in California. (justified in the article I was reading.)
*
(Just to spoil it; Borgs are => "extra-long DNA strands" that are associated with Archaea). Then I gave up.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 18 2021 12:29 utc | 150

Governments have falsified the pandemic figures. In Portugal the death data attributed to the coronavirus was 17,000 until a court in Lisbon has reduced it to 152. The sentence that uncovers the fraud can be downloaded from the link...

https://greatgameindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Lisbon-Court-Rules-Only-0.9-Of-%E2%80%98Verified-Cases-Died-Of-COVID-Numbering-152-Not -17000-As-Claimed.pdf

The number of deaths attributed to vaccines in the United States has surpassed 10,000 at the beginning of this month of July. In the last recorded week alone, another 1,943 more vaccinated have died. The number of side effects is 1,273,541!!!!

https://t.co/INNVITzXNj?amp=1

The CDC has revised the deaths to officially attributed to "covid." One of the factors most correlated with the death of the "infected" is anxiety and fear-related disorders. Literally: the sick died of fear!!!!

https://mpr21.info/el-99-por-ciento-de-las-muertes-atribuidas-al-covid-oficialmente-padecian-afecciones-previas/

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 18 2021 12:48 utc | 151

The popular mobilization, and people posting through social media bars and restaurants desertedm has managed to get the mayor of Moscow to annul the requirement to show the "vaccination passport" in the bars and restaurants of the capital...All of a sudden, they reached an acceptable number of vaccinated people and the Delta variant caused wave decrease...in face of the coming Duma elections, of course...

https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/16/moscow-drops-covid-vaccination-proof-demand-for-restaurant-clients

As leaked through his usual bragging by Pompeo when he still was SoS, we area here in a "live exercise" on whether the population would submitt willingly even to phisical termintation, like lambs peacefully walking to the slaughterhouse, if instilled with enough fear....

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 18 2021 12:53 utc | 152

In a town like Thonon Les Bains, France, of 34,000 inhabitants, most were in the street protesting against Macron's repressive and health policy...

Vive La France!!!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1416640590343720960

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 18 2021 13:02 utc | 153

Not only French people, but also Australians demonstrate against lockdowns, mandatory vaccination and "Covid passport"...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1416641046189154306

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 18 2021 13:06 utc | 154

As a proof that the "pandemic" is just the alibi and these measures are here to stay, as warned by some analysts in the first times of the "pandemic"...

FROM THE SANITARY DICTATORSHIP TO PURITANISM: Ada Colau's Barcelona City Council plans to end nightlife after the pandemic by forcing bars to close at 1 am to "respect the right to rest of citizens"....

https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20210717/7607084/barcelona-plantea-cerrar-ocio-nocturno-1-madrugada.html

Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 18 2021 13:09 utc | 155

So far, the government who is offering most real data is the UK one...

Gibraltar's government provides vax status for all recent covid cases. I aggregated the data for residents and have presented it below.

They used 100% Pfizer

Negative efficacy is on the table...

Why at this point and with these data vaccination is being made mandatory, you should ask yourself...b
Because they need to artificially prolong the "pandemic" to reach their real goals ( techosanitary dictatorship..) of ocurse...and enrich the US hedge funds who hold main shares at Pfizer and even the US government who holds shares at Moderna...

https://twitter.com/TedPetrou/status/1416526132522930179


Posted by: Asha K. | Jul 18 2021 13:21 utc | 156

I ended up finding this "So, as a first step, her group is now hunting Borgs in Californian rice paddies. Lovely image, looking for aliens in rice paddies run by the Chinese in California. (justified in the article I was reading.)
*
(Just to spoil it; Borgs are => "extra-long DNA strands" that are associated with Archaea). Then I gave up."

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 18 2021 12:29 utc | 153

I noticed the "borg" thing too. It means they are finding DNA that they don't have any idea what it came from. This is no surprise, and it is a bit arrogant to think you know everything. "Archaea" are to old ones, the methanophiles and sulfur eaters and the like. They deserve much more attention but are "hard to work with".

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 18 2021 14:22 utc | 157

@Stonebird #153
The USGS actually has a page up on the Dnieper-Donets basin: USGS link

A single total petroleum system encompassing the entire sedimentary succession is identified in the Dnieper-Donets basin. Discovered reserves of the system are 1.6 billion barrels of oil and 59 trillion cubic feet of gas. More than one-half of the reserves are in Lower Permian rocks below the salt seal. Most of remaining reserves are in upper Visean-Serpukhovian (Lower Carboniferous) strata. The majority of discovered fields are in salt-cored anticlines or in drapes over Devonian horst blocks; little exploration has been conducted for stratigraphic traps.

Again, I'm no expert but it sure reads like a "American biotic oil" type description.

As for why the Ukraine doesn't just get its own gas:

This Oxford Energy paper talks about it. Ukraine internal consumption is between 35-50 bcm per year. Internal production is 20-25 bcm per year. Thus Ukraine is a net importer of natural gas.

1 bcm = 35.3 billion cubic feet - thus the 59 trillion cubic feet in the Dnieper Donets basin = 1681 bcm.
This seems like a lot until you note that the Ukraine used to transit 150+ bcm of Russian natural gas per year to Europe. This figure has fallen to 100-ish bcm most recently and is likely to fall even further.
The 150+ bcm transit plus the 15-30ish bcm internal usage represents an enormous financial benefit to Ukraine. Which makes it all the more ironic that said country's turn towards hostility to Russia is literally shooting itself in the foot. I guess those people figured Russia had no alternative for gas transit so they could get away with it.
Clearly they miscalculated.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 18 2021 15:35 utc | 158

Bemildred | Jul 18 2021 14:22 utc | 160

I don't know "everything" but I am also curious, so I do nomadic quick trips across multiple subjects, and then try to put it in place. (Collate)
*
Re link; I was going to write; "I understood every word, it was when they put them in sentences that it got difficult". Which is more accurate.

****

"They deserve much more attention but are "hard to work with".
I don't envy those that try either. The problem as I see it, is that there is a leap in knowledge in the last few years, or at least in the access to it. So starting from a standard education "a long time ago" leaves a big gap to cover. Unless it is directly linked with a career, (in my case in is not), then "keeping up" usually means putting foot in mouth, to find out what those in the know think.

As with Covaxial "experts", I no longer have a deep respect for self confessed "talking heads" or many who profess to be "scientists". But luckily, very occasionally, one come across those who really do know their subject. (As above)

Silence may be golden, but it doesn't pay much.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 18 2021 16:04 utc | 159

Biden administration dumping some in the Isr deep state?
https://thewire.in/government/project-pegasus-journalists-ministers-activists-phones-spying

Posted by: Mina | Jul 18 2021 16:08 utc | 160

c1ue | Jul 18 2021 15:35 utc | 161

USGS link: The basin runs more or less parallel with the frontier. Luhansk in, Donetsk, less so. But it does put into perspective the problems that Ukraine could have if it doesn't sort out it's problems with Russia.

****
"I guess those people figured Russia had no alternative for gas transit so they could get away with it.
Clearly they miscalculated."

Yup. Betting on being able to stop NordStream II. (Which is planned to be terminated by the end of August). Next step, buddies with China as an alternative. Or is that because they follow the US, and the US is turning it's attention to China first.?

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 18 2021 16:25 utc | 161

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 18 2021 16:04 utc | 162

.As with Covaxial "experts", I no longer have a deep respect for self confessed "talking heads" or many who profess to be "scientists". But luckily, very occasionally, one come across those who really do know their subject. (As above)

Silence may be golden, but it doesn't pay much.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 18 2021 16:04 utc | 162

Totally. Having been an "expert" and a "wizard" a few times myself, I just don't believe in them really. We need a lot more generalists, not all these snotty one-trick ponies who want you to pay through the nose for their mechanically applied "expertise".

I was reading lately they found a fungus they think uses radiation for energy. I think it was the alpha particles. My.

I like this quote:

"I understood every word, it was when they put them in sentences that it got difficult". Which is more accurate.

That's because they are "setting a mood", not making an argument.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 18 2021 16:36 utc | 162

Bemildred | Jul 18 2021 16:36 utc | 165

"I was reading lately they found a fungus they think uses radiation for energy. I think it was the alpha particles. My."

Chernobyl?
I know that mutations have happened there, and that Mushrooms were forbidden to be eaten here in France at the time, because they "stock" particles. (Again, were they Alpha particles or others?)

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 18 2021 16:50 utc | 163

Chernobyl?
I know that mutations have happened there, and that Mushrooms were forbidden to be eaten here in France at the time, because they "stock" particles. (Again, were they Alpha particles or others?)

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 18 2021 16:50 utc | 166

I hear Chernobyl is thriving without us, but no, this was in deep rock, I think. I'll see if I can bring it up again ...

Ah, here's a pdf:

X-treme Microbes: Eating Radioactivity - NSF

And a story:

ABC

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 18 2021 17:34 utc | 164

Asha K. | Jul 18 2021 12:48 utc | 151

Corrected:

Lisbon Court Rules Only 0.9% Of ‘Verified Cases’ Died Of COVID, Numbering 152, Not 17,000 As Claimed

Posted by: pogohere | Jul 18 2021 21:10 utc | 165

@152 Asha K.

Thank you for those links and for the reminder of what Pompeo said, namely that we are in a "live exercise" in the pandemic.

As time goes by, and the data become more visible, it becomes more clear that death from vaccine is more likely than death from COVID.

And it becomes clear, as the court in Lisbon compels the truth to be revealed, that almost nobody died from the virus, while numerous persons died from the falsified attributions to the virus - as well us, undoubtedly, from the social consequences of the political oppression that eagerly took advantage of the excuse provided by the virus.

~~

And what has it shown, this live exercise? Perhaps it has shown that, from any population, half are not going to roll over and die on command, while the other half will.

I find those good percentages, good odds for a race. Fifty-fifty. Better than I might have guessed.

Please keep providing your news stories and perspectives on this foul exercise.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 19 2021 3:19 utc | 166

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