Leaving Out Context To Vilify Iran's New President
The New York Times is using a dubious criminal case in Sweden to vilify president-elect of Iran Ebrahim Raisi over his alleged involvement in the execution of prisoner.
The smear works, but only because the New York Times decided to leave out the historical context.
Murder Trial in Sweden Could Shine Unsavory Light on Iran’s New President
First some details on the trial in Sweden:
He was a 28-year-old student and member of a communist group in Iran serving a 10-year prison sentence in 1988 when, according to his family, he was called before a committee and executed without a trial or defense.
...
The student, Bijan Bazargan, was among an estimated 5,000 prisoners belonging to armed opposition and leftist groups in Iran, who Amnesty International and other rights groups say were executed in the summer of 1988.
...
Now, a Swedish court will prosecute a former Iranian judiciary official for war crimes and murder in connection with Mr. Bazargan’s death. The case carries some notably public and damaging implications for Iran’s president-elect, Ebrahim Raisi, who helped decide which prisoners lived or died during those mass executions.The defendant, Hamid Noury, 59, was indicted on Tuesday in Sweden, ..
...
Mr. Noury served as an assistant to the deputy prosecutor at the Gohardasht prison where Mr. Bazargan and hundreds of prisoners were sent to the gallows.The mass executions represent one of the most brutal and opaque crackdowns by the Islamic Republic against its opponents. International rights groups say they amount to crimes against humanity.
Some assistant to a deputy prosecutor of some prison, who was at that time 26 years old, is accused of alleged involvement in the trial by committee and execution of a prisoner who had previously been sentenced to 10-years.
To accuse some minor assistant over this sounds a bit fishy to me but is for the Swedish courts to decide.
The highlighted paragraph are tying to tie that case with Ebrahim Raisi who is at center of the second half of the NYT piece:
Mr. Raisi, 60, was a member of the four-person committee that interrogated prisoners and issued execution orders. Mr. Raisi has said he was acting under the direction of the founding father of the revolution, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who had ordered a committee be formed to facilitate the executions.Allegations of Mr. Raisi’s work on that committee have shadowed him through his ascent in Iran’s hierarchy, where he had been the head of the judiciary before the June election that vaulted him to the presidency. Amnesty International has called for a formal investigation of Mr. Raisi’s past.
Raisi was indeed part of such a committee but the prisoners standing in front of it were of a very special type.
This was in summer of 1988. The Iran Iraq war was coming to an end. Iraq had attacked Iran in 1980, shortly after Iran's revolution. The war took eight years and ended in a draw. It was an extremely brutal war as Iraq fired hundreds of missiles against Iranian cities and used chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers and civilians. Up to a half million soldiers died on each side. Iraq had at the time the full support of the 'west'.
On July 20 1988 Iran accepted a ceasefire under UN Security Council resolution 598. The war was over. But one group, an Iranian cult that had fought on the Iraqi side and was backed by the CIA, decided to fight on:
Operation Mersad (مرصاد "ambush") was the last big military operation of the war. Both Iran and Iraq had accepted Resolution 598, but despite the ceasefire, after seeing Iraqi victories in the previous months, Mujahadeen-e-Khalq (MEK) decided to launch an attack of its own and wished to advance all the way to Tehran. Saddam and the Iraqi high command decided on a two-pronged offensive across the border into central Iran and Iranian Kurdistan. Shortly after Iran accepted the ceasefire the MEK army began its offensive, attacking into Ilam province under cover of Iraqi air power. In the north, Iraq also launched an attack into Iraqi Kurdistan, which was blunted by the Iranians.On 26 July 1988, the MEK started their campaign in central Iran, Operation Forough Javidan (Eternal Light), with the support of the Iraqi army. The Iranians had withdrawn their remaining soldiers to Khuzestan in fear of a new Iraqi invasion attempt, allowing the Mujahedeen to advance rapidly towards Kermanshah, seizing Qasr-e Shirin, Sarpol-e Zahab, Kerend-e Gharb, and Islamabad-e-Gharb. The MEK expected the Iranian population to rise up and support their advance; the uprising never materialised but they reached 145 km (90 mi) deep into Iran. In response, the Iranian military launched its counter-attack, Operation Mersad, under Lieutenant General Ali Sayyad Shirazi. Iranian paratroopers landed behind the MEK lines while the Iranian Air Force and helicopters launched an air attack, destroying much of the enemy columns. The Iranians defeated the MEK in the city of Kerend-e Gharb on 29 July 1988. On 31 July, Iran drove the MEK out of Qasr-e-Shirin and Sarpol Zahab, though MEK claimed to have "voluntarily withdrawn" from the towns. Iran estimated that 4,500 MEK were killed, while 400 Iranian soldiers died.
It were mostly the prisoners taken during the MEK attack on Iran that the committee Raisi belonged to had to handle. These prisoner were not part of a regular army. They were not Iraqis but Iranians who had fought against their own country. They had invaded Iran after a ceasefire had been declared. These were not regular prisoners of war but quite arguably captured terrorists.
As the retired Indian Ambassador M.K. Bhadrakumar wrote in piece on Raisi:
Iran smashed the MEK assault and that set the stage for the so-called “death commissions” of the prisoners, terrorists and others.Inevitably, those executed included agents of the western intelligence. The executions couldn’t have been carried out except on Khomeini’s orders. Now, Raisi was a young man of 27 when he reportedly served on a revolutionary panel involved in sentencing Iran’s enemies to death.
Wikipedia notes of those who were executed:
The majority of those killed were supporters of the People's Mujahedin of Iran, although supporters of other leftist factions, including the Fedaian and the Tudeh Party of Iran (Communist Party), were executed as well.
While the commissions who decided these cases were not full courts, were at least stacked with jurists. Raisi had previously been a deputy prosecutor in Tehran.
For many years the MEK continued to launch terror attacks within and outside of Iran. The U.S. eventually designated the MEK a terrorist organization.
I am personally against the death penalty. But I find it hard to believe that anyone who puts himself into the historic context will find much fault with what Raisi and other members of such commissions have done at that time.
The New York Times though will not even let you know that context.
Posted by b on July 31, 2021 at 17:04 UTC | Permalink
Heh. Wake me when Sweden conducts a serious investigation into the assassination of its own prime minister.
Posted by: corvo | Jul 31 2021 17:32 utc | 2
War is war - it's violence deciding how things are settled. It is the suspension of law, principles, values etc. etc. The Geneva Conventions is just something created after WWII to make the weak sleep better at night, but in practice they're not worth the paper they were written on when a true war actually happens.
When the Cheney/Bush admin was just about to invade Iraq (2003) they released, including on
the official White House website, a list of 10 justifications for the invasion. One of the
10 listed reasons was Saddam's support for the terrorist group MEK (which had targeted and killed
Americans in the 1970s).
A few years ago MEK spread a lot of money around Washington and they were taken off the terrorist list.
It wasn't just lobbying money that made the difference, MEK has been used and supported by the Zioisraelis to
conduct terror.
The White House website list of 10 items appears to be lost to history. Someone wiped it from history.
This, at the time of it's publishing was most significant history - the official justifications for the
imminent invasion of Iraq.
Can anyone resurrect this piece of history? I have tried and tried.
Posted by: librul | Jul 31 2021 17:50 utc | 4
Light is shining on Financial Empire’s shenanigans!
The core (UK-U$A ) of the Financial Empire (💲Bloc) is using its captured satellite suzerainties to attack its competitors (Non-$ Bloc) and discredit them, as its credibility and legitimacy falls into the negative numbers. It is using Australia against China, Ukraine against Russia, Sweden/Israel...? against Iran, Balkans against Germany?.. China, Russia and Iran are in the Non-$ Bloc and leading De-Dollarization.
Non-$ Bloc need to be captured, so they can be controlled for the dream of a global financial empire. What are the key characteristics of modern Monetary IMPERIALISM led by the U$A? Reserve Currency Colonialism, Payment Control, Resource control, Foreign military bases...
Warren Buffett, is famous for saying “You only see who’s swimming naked when the tide goes out.” Well, the tide is going out. The Financial Empire's rulers, lackeys & orcs (individuals without conscience) are becoming more and more exposed, for those who hadn’t figured it out, as a massive evil humbug. BIG EVIL HUMBUG!
Financial Empire’s CREDIBILITY is ⭕️
Empire’s media credibility is ⭕️
Which entities in the Financial Empire have +ve credibility?
Posted by: Max | Jul 31 2021 17:59 utc | 5
The critisism of Iran is justified. Iran is one of the countries with the highest number of executed people per capita. Other countries with the capital punishment - including e.g. China and most other Muslim countries - have a much lower rate. Just Iran and Saudi-Arabia deem it necessary to kill that many people in order to keep up public order.
There is also no excuse for Raisi having issued death sentences in the framework of a kangoroo court when he was younger. He can`t change the past but one can only hope that he has learned from his past mistakes and will make better decisions now that he is the president of his country.
By the way, it also hasn`t been only the West that had supported Iraq during the Iraq-Iran War but the Soviet Union, too. And that for a reason. To my knowledge Iran has been the only country that managed to equally annoy both super powers during the Cold War.
Posted by: m | Jul 31 2021 18:00 utc | 6
@Posted by: librul | Jul 31 2021 17:50 utc | 4
If you are searching for that White House document (thx)
be aware of one thing that might aid your search,
MEK was often referred to as MKO (Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization).
Thanks
Posted by: librul | Jul 31 2021 18:24 utc | 7
"One child falls ill with cancer every day."
Lawsuit against NATO for uranium weapon use in Yugoslavia 1999
“A team consisting of 26 lawyers and professors from Serbia, Germany, France, Italy, Russia, China, England and Turkey will accuse the NATO of having dropped bombs with depleted uranium on Yugoslavia during the war in 1999. The long-term effects is a cancer epidemic that takes on even greater dimensions.”
Why isn’t the media reporting on this CRIME against humanity? Isn’t this crime despicable and an abomination? Who is responsible for this crime against humanity? Until the perpetrators of this crime are punished, there is no rule of law in the world.
Where are the educated people of the world that let these crimes happen? What is the purpose of education?
Posted by: Max | Jul 31 2021 18:37 utc | 8
It's pretty weird to see the Swedish Government falling victim to a severe dose of Stockholm Syndrome. On the other hand, the Scandinavians have never had much respect for Civilisation elsewhere in the world (Vikings, anyone?) and to this day maintain Right-wing Lunatic Governments. Norway, for example turned a blind eye to the maniacal rantings of Anders Breivik's Manifesto - until he executed dozens of their left-leaning kids, one day.
So, maybe the Swedes are suffering from Oslo Syndrome AND delusions of Supremacist Grandeur toward people with the wrong-coloured skin + religion?
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 31 2021 18:38 utc | 9
@ 6 m.... thanks for being a good reflection of those consuming the nyt and american centric point of view... you miss the entire plot, but that's okay...
Posted by: james | Jul 31 2021 18:46 utc | 10
Psycho Suzerain will kill
any obstacle at will
with a bullet or a drone
in a crowd or all alone
Uncle Sugar gets his man
in Haiiti or Iran
Here is your new leader
we chose him just for you
the other guy is gonna die
and we've arranged a coup
our good and faithful minions
share all of our opinions
so if you want to live
here's what yer gonna do
Posted by: ld | Jul 31 2021 18:50 utc | 11
@ Posted by: m | Jul 31 2021 18:00 utc | 6
Liberals are against over-use of the death penalty until its time to exterminate some local communists (see, e.g. the extermination of the communists in Indonesia, celebrated by the West until today).
Like I said, it is useless to debate this kind of thing. War is the suspension of civilization by definition.
Hey b,
I just chanced upon an Iranian site (English) that lists all sorts of stories
on MEK (aka MKO) from the Iranian point of view.
Use at your own risk.
https://www.habilian.ir/en/mko/documents/page-7.html
Posted by: librul | Jul 31 2021 18:53 utc | 13
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 31 2021 18:38 utc
that IS THE dumbest rant you have put up here.
turned a blind eye to a manifesto tat was released the same fucking day and is as fake as the Russia meddled in the 16 u.s election hoax, i live here and i cant find the newsfeeds that said multiple shooters on Utøya, aint that weird heh? ALL cellphones and video shot by the kids are still in the tender care of our zog politicans🤷♂️
The last footage of abb b4 he was arrested shows "him" in different clothes than when he was arrested, Oslo was full off mossad, i can go on but i guess your woke feelz might get hurt.
So i urge you to shut up if you dont know shit about a topic, bc ur rant above is so pathetic it actually made me angry.
Take your POT/C.I.A narrative and shove it a place where the sun dont shine.
Per
Sami/Norwegian
Posted by: Per/Norway | Jul 31 2021 18:59 utc | 14
m@6:
To my knowledge Iran has been the only country that managed to equally annoy both super powers during the Cold War.
No. China annoyed both super powers (Sammo and Russies) in the 1961 war with India. Actually China was a pain in the embarrassing place for both super powers during most of 50's and 60's.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jul 31 2021 19:11 utc | 15
Your challenge hinges on whether or not it is possible to justify armed opposition to the Iranian regime. The groups in question had originally gone into opposition to Khomeini *after* he assaulted them to consolidate power *after* the Shah's overthrow. During the revolution against the Shah Khomeini was certainly an important figure, off in France making his broadcasts, but the actual development of the revolution was spearheaded by secular forces, including left groups like the People's Fedayeen and left wing religious organizations, especially the People's Mujahedin. As part of dispensing with the Bani-Sadr phase of gov't, the Khomeinites regime moved brutally against the socialist and communist left. Frankly, it is very unfortunate that during that *imposed* combat they did not assassinate Khomeini when they had the opportunity; as the successful bombing of Beheshti in 1980 indicates, they had the capability. Iran ended up being run by a bunch of corrupt, intolerant clericals, and the possibility of a more democratic (perhaps even social democratic society, given the level of institutional development prior to the revolution) was lost.
Your attempt to ignore all that and to characterize the opposition in terms of the cult the Mujahedin deteriorated into is disgusting and should be beneath you. In your haste to oppose US policy you pay no attention to the actual course of Iran's history and engage in the kind of sloppy attribution that you attack so well in the MSM. Can you begin to imagine that it is an index of how much they *had reason to* detest the Khomeini regime that they decided to get in bed with Sadaam? Do you even think to consider whether the glorious Khomeinite revolution murderously foreclosed, through *military* means, viable sociopolitical options? Is it possible for you to realize that in opposing US assaults on Iran today it is not necessary to forgive the current regime its many, and ongoing crimes against the Iranian people?
Posters who write about the Swedish government falling victim to the Stockholm syndrome have fallen victim to it themselves. People who frequent your site should be delighted that these butchers are being pursued.
Posted by: dadooronron | Jul 31 2021 19:17 utc | 16
@Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 31 2021 18:38 utc | 9
Norway, for example turned a blind eye to the maniacal rantings of Anders Breivik's Manifesto - until he executed dozens of their left-leaning kids, one day.
Obviously, you don't know much about the events of 22 July 2011. The manifesto became known after the events. The true story about what happened that day is not what you think it is.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 31 2021 19:24 utc | 17
@ Posted by: dadooronron | Jul 31 2021 19:17 utc | 15
Claiming righteousness does not give you the right to win the war. The only way to win a war is with brute force.
The executed prisoners were only executed because they lost the war and, in the process, were captured. War prisoners are executed ceremonially since time immemorial (see the cut off hands buried in pits in Ancient Egypt). This is not exclusive to fanatic Muslims.
The fact that executing communists first became a crime when the Iran government did it tells us all we need to know about this show trial.
Posted by: TimmyB | Jul 31 2021 19:30 utc | 19
Just remember that Obama removed the terrorist cult from its list of FTO while making a 'Deal" with Iran. Now they want to revived the deal they walked out of AFTER the US assassinated the most formidable general to have lived in a centuries.
Posted by: Soraya Sepahpour-Ulr | Jul 31 2021 19:37 utc | 20
...
Take your POT/C.I.A narrative and shove it a place where the sun dont shine.
...
Posted by: Per/Norway | Jul 31 2021 18:59 utc | 13
We're debating the merits of a Jew York Times hit-piece on "Israel's" Favourite Fake Enemy, IRAN, based on an 'edited' version of History.
My sources are:
1. An abc.net.au 4 Corners episode from April 2012 — a knock-off of a BBC report, "The Killer Within."
2. The Wikipedia entry on Breivik.
3. My family socialised with the family of a Norwegian ex-Commando who participated in Operation Swallow. He was a died-in-the-wool thrill-seeker - and died thrill-seeking when he was about 50.
He was ALWAYS right, if you get my drift.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 31 2021 19:42 utc | 21
Wait a minute, what about the communist student at the beginning of the story? Was he part of the MEK attack? If not, why was he executed? Executing a bunch of crazed traitor terrorists who launched a deadly attack may be justified, but some communist who was already in prison and wasn't part of the attack? If Raisi took the attack as an opportunity to kill other opponents who had nothing to do with the attack, that seems pretty outrageous.
Posted by: Robert Macaire | Jul 31 2021 19:44 utc | 22
@Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 31 2021 19:42 utc | 20
My sources are:
1. An abc.net.au 4 Corners episode from April 2012 — a knock-off of a BBC report, "The Killer Within."
2. The Wikipedia entry on Breivik.
3. My family socialised with the family of a Norwegian ex-Commando who participated in Operation Swallow. He was a died-in-the-wool thrill-seeker - and died thrill-seeking when he was about 50.
He was ALWAYS right, if you get my drift.
Oh, that's really impressive. An australian reference to BBC and even Wikipedia. That trumps our local knowledge, for sure.
You know absolutely nothing about what happened that day.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 31 2021 19:50 utc | 23
It is so common as to be surreally comical to criticize one case of injustice and murder.
Obama killed the American Anwar al-Awlaki family one at a time: the father and the 16 year old son in separate drone attacks in 2011, and the 8 year old daughter the week Trump became President (who either did not know or did not care about that scheduled attack). This was all extrajudicial.
Evidently if a Nobel Peace Prize laureate does it, it's acceptable (like Henry Kissinger's role in Indonesia and Vietnam).
Posted by: michael888 | Jul 31 2021 19:58 utc | 24
Those that deserved execution were the Anglos that initiated the Iraq/Iran War through their proxy Saddam. That some of their Terrorist Foreign Legion were caught and killed was seen as collateral damage and mostly forgotten about.
When it comes to killing innocents, the Anglos and Romans are one-two; that the Anglos admired the Romans and mimicked their behavior is logical just as a psycho-killer's actions can also be logical--Chomsky's often explained that seeming oddity. Do recall what Patrick Armstrong wrote last week about the Outlaw US Empire's accusations--they're consistently projections of its own behavior, and this is no different.
Those that deserved execution were the Anglos that initiated the Iraq/Iran War through their proxy Saddam. That some of their Terrorist Foreign Legion were caught and killed was seen as collateral damage and mostly forgotten about.
When it comes to killing innocents, the Anglos and Romans are one-two; that the Anglos admired the Romans and mimicked their behavior is logical just as a psycho-killer's actions can also be logical--Chomsky's often explained that seeming oddity. Do recall what Patrick Armstrong wrote last week about the Outlaw US Empire's accusations--they're consistently projections of its own behavior, and this is no different.
librul | Jul 31 2021 17:50 utc | 4
Not this one?:
https://www.kltv.com/story/1187277/white-house-list-top-10-reasons-to-disarm-iraq-depose-saddam/
Posted by: Keith McClary | Jul 31 2021 20:06 utc | 27
Psycho Suzerain will kill
any obstacle at will
with a bullet or a drone
in a crowd or all alone
Uncle Sugar gets his man
in Haiiti or Iran
Here is your new leader
we chose him just for you
the other guy is gonna die
and we've arranged a coup
our good and faithful minions
share all of our opinions
so if you want to live
here's what yer gonna do
Posted by: ld | Jul 31 2021 20:38 utc | 28
@Posted by: Keith McClary | Jul 31 2021 20:06 utc | 26
Good job. That is the closest to what I was searching for that I have seen.
In it there is nothing specific about MEK (MKO) however. Am sure about MEK (MKO) being specifically named
by the White House. Unless I can find something else I will have to say that your link is it.
Thx
Posted by: librul | Jul 31 2021 20:41 utc | 30
It seems odd that after Ebrahim Raisi is elected President of Iran, a Swedish court decides to prosecute Hamid Noury over the death of Bijan Bazargan. If someone else had won the Presidency, would the Swedes have been as quick to start proceedings against Noury? Especially as they have been curiously tardy in finding and prosecuting those who murdered Olof Palme or any one of those people involved in their mass eugenics experiment from the 1930s to 1975 in which tens of thousands of people, most of them young women, were deemed mentally defective and sterilized as a result.
Posted by: Jen | Jul 31 2021 20:46 utc | 31
Thanks, b, for the info. When I read about Sweden’s involvement, I was reminded of the Nordic Council, and it’s comments at that UN meeting on the most recent conflict in Gaza. After viewing that, I was left with the impression that these countries are more involved in that region than I knew. (See also nsmes.org - Nordic Society for Middle Eastern Studies.) What does that wall mean, I wonder?
I won’t raise the subject of Canada’s armed forces, erm, removing subversive folks from Canadian territory by means other than deportation, or the subject of that subject being discussed through the media (very carefully) to gain public (very silent) support back in the wild 90’s. Let’s just talk about Iran. Terrible those clerics sometimes.
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jul 31 2021 20:48 utc | 32
Posted by vk @ 3
Who wrote:...
"The Geneva Conventions is just something created after WWII to make the weak sleep better at night, but in practice they're not worth the paper they were written on when a true war actually happens..."
The Geneva Conventions were NOT 'created after WW11', the were upgraded and strengthened after WW11 to reflect the world's revulsion to actions like unilateral annexation of territory under the duress of occupation. Does that ring any bells?
The conventions began after the disgusting carnage and suffering observed by Swiss businessman , Dunet, at the Battle of Solferino in 1859 and were in addition to the Hague Conventions, proposed by the humanitarian Tsar of Russia. Both are considered customary international law and all are bound by this. Even God's Holy Khazar.
Posted by: Paul | Jul 31 2021 20:58 utc | 33
@ Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jul 31 2021 20:48 utc | 31
It has nothing to do with Sweden being a Nordic country. It is rather an accident of History.
During the High Cold War (1945-1975), a bunch of border countries like Austria, Sweden, Finland etc. gained notoriety and acceptance as "non-aligned countries". This reputation was somewhat (undeservedly) kept after the Cold War.
--//--
@ Posted by: librul | Jul 31 2021 20:41 utc | 29
Those kind of groups exist by the hundreds around the world today since the end of the Cold War. Most of them are mixture of fringe radical groups that naturally arise in poorer regions with artificial propping up by the USA or one of its regional satrapies. They are born and die every other year, and already used every combination of letters of the alphabet and every ideology façade in the books possible.
It is useless to research about this MEK. It's an academic/journalistic dead end. The romantic days of the Communist Party of China and the Communist Party of Vietnam are long gone. The guerrilla-separatist game of the post-Cold War period is a completely different one.
@ Posted by: Paul | Jul 31 2021 20:58 utc | 32
And how that went?
Freikorps soldiers were shooting Red Cross nurses like they were nothing. WWII happened and, well, there's a reason the Geneva Conventions had to be updated after it. It was completely ignored by the American army during the destruction of Iraq.
The Geneva Conventions never worked. Never will. The problem here is: who's going to judge the strongest nations?
Posted by: vk @ 34
Sure, there are plenty of examples of breaches.
I have the 600 plus page 'Commentary 1V Geneva Convention' published by ICRC. This convention relates to occupation. Of the multiple provisions, the the 'commentary' gives the reasons for their inclusion, I can't find ONE , just ONE provision observed by the Bandit State in its brutal occupation of all of historic Palestine. Hospitals, medical staff, civilians and children are regularly targeted by the ugly Bandit State. Their day of reckoning is coming.
On the other hand I know Australian soldiers were punished severely for criminal outrages committed against Japanese civilians during the occupation following WW11.
There are never any excuses.
b, I am also personally against the death penalty.
Posted by: Paul | Jul 31 2021 21:29 utc | 36
@ Posted by: Paul | Jul 31 2021 21:29 utc | 35
I think the term "death penalty" only applies to civilian cases in their own countries. It doesn't apply to military or war tribunals.
There's difference between arbitrarily executing on of your own citizens, with full rights, for a crime committed during times of peace and executing a foreign military enemy who openly and actively declared to want to destroy you.
Perhaps Sweden would also like to investigate the abuse of judicial power that resulted in Craig Murray being imprisoned.
Posted by: Deltaeus | Jul 31 2021 22:02 utc | 38
Here is some basic math and context that this "article" is ignoring.
First the basic math:
Some assistant to a deputy prosecutor of some prison, who was at that time 26 years old, is accused of alleged involvement in the trial by committee and execution of a prisoner who had previously been sentenced to 10-years.
The "26 years old" is apparently there to create the impression of a nobody, a young nothing. Today "The defendant, Hamid Noury [is] 59" years old. "Mr. Raisi, 60, was a member of the four-person committee that interrogated prisoners and issued execution orders."
Basic math, b: Mr. Raisi was "27 years old at that time". He was not a nobody.
Now the missing "context":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein-Ali_Montazeri
Ayatollah Montazeri was Khomeini's designated successor. He got "demoted" and then put under house arrest because he, a a key revolutionary, found the entire affair against Islam and against the values of the Islamic Revolution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein-Ali_Montazeri#Dispute_with_Khomeini_and_demotion
--
And for keyboard comrade vk and her "war is war" comment. One does not execute prisoners of war. If a party to a war took POWs and summarily executed them that would be considered a "war crime".
Posted by: context | Jul 31 2021 22:12 utc | 39
@ Posted by: context | Jul 31 2021 22:12 utc | 38
It is only a war crime if you lose or only if there's a third party strong enough to judge you. The principle of vae victis still applies.
Last time I checked, Donald Rumsfeld died peacefully and free, and no POTUS will ever see court in his life.
@Posted by: context | Jul 31 2021 22:12 utc | 38
The Hague convention treats the bombing of civilian towns as a war crime, with the Allies and the US continuously committing such war crimes in the terror bombing of German (Dresden etc.) and Japanese (firebombing attacks on Tokyo plus the nuclear bomb attacks) cities and towns in WW2. In the Korean War "they ran out of things to bomb". Then of course, the chemical war and civilian bombing against Vietnam, the terrorist war against Nicaragua, the extensive bombing of Serbia. And of course all the illegal drone murders. This goes on, and on. There is so much that Sweden could go after, but they decide to go after an Iranian right now? How about also the crimes against humanity of the embargoes against Cuba, Iran, Syria and Venezuela?
The Iraqi invasion of Iran (to call it the Iran-Iraq war is to mislead) was horrific, with many, many war crimes including widespread use of poison gas against civilians by the Iraqis - fully supported by US corporations that supplied the ingredients. Lots of people to imprison for that!
Being a traitor is punishable by death in many countries, the man in question fought against his own country - which would produce a death sentence in many Western nations. When I was a military policeman in the British Army one of my jobs was to shoot anyone "running the wrong way" without due process.
War is war and horrible, horrible things happen during it. The Geneva and Hague conventions are a thin veneer to cover up the reality, with the "lesser thans" not usually treated so well - just compare captured Generals to captured grunts.
Posted by: Roger | Jul 31 2021 22:40 utc | 41
"Iraq shelters terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq Organization (MKO), which has used terrorist violence against Iran and in the 1970s was responsible for killing several U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians."
"Terrorist violence against Iran"
Before the UN the United States said that MKO (aka MEK) used "terrorist violence against Iran"
According to the Congressional Record ( https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2003/7/21/senate-section/article/S9622-2 )
the above quote came from:
"This came from ``A Decade of Deception and Defiance,'' a
briefing document to accompany President George W. Bush's
speech to the U.N., September 12, 2002."
https://2001-2009.state.gov/p/nea/rls/13456.htm
Posted by: librul | Jul 31 2021 22:45 utc | 42
@ 40 roger... hear. hear! thank you for stating the obvious... some folks just can't see past the nyt headlines and also seem incapable of understanding propaganda when it is staring them in the face...
Posted by: james | Jul 31 2021 22:59 utc | 44
I have never understood why killing someone with gas was less acceptable than killing someone with an explosion or a projectile.
In war, the only law is that of the jungle. Trying to regulate that is futile and a smokescreen to prevent a larger discussion about the inception of war and how to truly prevent those powerful people who do it from being able to do it.
Posted by: Rutherford82 | Aug 1 2021 0:14 utc | 45
@Posted by: Rutherford82 | Aug 1 2021 0:14 utc | 44
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Posted by: librul | Aug 1 2021 0:34 utc | 46
@ Posted by: m | Jul 31 2021 18:00 utc | 6
Liberals are against over-use of the death penalty until its time to exterminate some local communists (see, e.g. the extermination of the communists in Indonesia, celebrated by the West until today).
Like I said, it is useless to debate this kind of thing. War is the suspension of civilization by definition.
Posted by: vk | Jul 31 2021 18:50 utc | 12
Actually, civilization referred to the sophistication of urban life, "civitas" meant "city" (the origin of the English word). The markers of the city life, civilization, were objects of arts, architecture, baths, market places -- and wars with other cities. And if there were too few wars, you could go to a circus and watch gladiators engaged in mortal combat. And when you spoke Greek, people in cities (polis) were polite and engaged in politics -- in addition to philosophy, arts etc. -- and wars.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 1 2021 0:58 utc | 47
@VK
If brute force is the law of war, why did Iran never retaliate against Iraqi chemical weapons attacks in kind?
Posted by: Peltast | Aug 1 2021 1:08 utc | 48
@ Per/Norway | Jul 31 2021 18:59 utc | 13
Hoarsewhisperer has been a generally well-informed and decent commenter: his comment certainly does not deserve your denunciation: Most of us have little insight into affairs in Sweden, so please inform rather than denounce!
Posted by: Sam F | Aug 1 2021 1:21 utc | 49
Is Hamid Noury, the defendant actually in Sweden, and if so, in what capacity? Or is this a trial in abstentia?
Antoinetta III
Posted by: Antoinetta III | Aug 1 2021 1:35 utc | 50
@ Antoinetta III | Aug 1 2021 1:35 utc | 49... it sounds as though hamid noury is still being held in detention on possible charges - sort of like the deal with assange - hold him in limbo until he rots, dies in prison, or they finally get around to the case... it is not shining a pretty light on sweden in its selective choice of human rights concerns.. a lot of shit has happened since 1988, but for some reason sweden feels the need to single out iran for bad publicity on human rights issues... like i said @ 1 - this is the purpose of this particular exercise... create more negative spin on iran.... sweden is showing real subservience to usa-uk at this point... it is impressive how they have become a useful idiot for these 2 top class human rights abusers...
Posted by: james | Aug 1 2021 1:46 utc | 51
This type of trial is pure opportunism, MEK, is one day a terrorists outfit, the next day are Government in waiting, according to Bolton and Rudy Giuliani, There was Iranian Presidential candidate during the Iranian Green Movement, by the name of Mir-Hossein Mousavi, who was hailed as the New President ,by the West, he had signed 30000, thirty thousands, death warrants. The Great General that was mentioned is Qasem Soleimani, he took part in the massacre of Kurdish prisoners, you are dealing here with Gog and Magog, the whole outfit is a criminal organisation, MEK, Mulahs are both sides of the same coin! Most people support Iran from out side for its stance against West, in in particular USA, but in side of the country, it is a brutal system, that crushes any opposition to theocracy!
Posted by: Grishka | Aug 1 2021 2:09 utc | 52
Posted by: vk @ 36
Who wrote:
"There's difference between arbitrarily executing on of your own citizens, with full rights, for a crime committed during times of peace and executing a foreign military enemy who openly and actively declared to want to destroy you"
You are advocating what is known as a 'drum head court-marshal' followed swiftly by execution for POW's. Perhaps, with this kind of circumlocution and semantics you should volunteer as a TV talking head for the Bandit State military. You'd be right at home.
Those under occupation have the 'right to resist' and the right 'to take the fight to the territory of the occupier" this is not terrorism by definition. These rights are recognised by the Geneva Conventions.
Posted by: Paul | Aug 1 2021 3:28 utc | 53
@ Grishka | Aug 1 2021 2:09 utc | 51... how about the west - usa-uk-israel and little servants sweden and etc - let iran work it out on its own, minus the bullying, financial sanctions and threat of war on them 24/7? let iran work it out... i know it is a novel thought!! we just can't let that happen apparently... we have to side with the abuser by supporting all the hostility towards iran, because it is '''''supposedly'''' justified.. i call bullshit on that.. nyt is good for ass wipe and fire-starter... that is it..
Posted by: james | Aug 1 2021 4:07 utc | 54
Your article on the NYT article misses a few points.
First, NYT and especially Farnaz Fassihi who wrote that article are the foremost detractors of the MEK, the Mojahedin-e-Khalq organization. In fact the paper has for years preached aand praised a policy of appeasement towards Tehran.
Then, because of the NYT content, the writer, obviously quite ignorant about Iran's recent history, thought Ebrahim Raisi, through Hamid Nouri, is pursued for the death of Bijan Bazargan. In fact, Bazargan family is one out of 35 plaintiffs who have filed against Nouri, not for one or two executions, but for having been implicated in 30.000 executions during a few months.
Contrary to the absurd allegation concerning the participation of those executed in the MEK attack into Iran in July 1988, all, and not some, of those executed were in prison since 1981 and 1982 and had nothing to do with the MEK 1988 July incursion into Iran. In fact, Khomeini was preparing to get rid of all opponents in the prison faithful to the MEK since month before the incursion, and his famous fatwa to exterminate them was produced before that attack. But the coincidence helped the mullahs find a pretext to fool superficial writers and researchers like the author of your article.
Ebrahim Raisi merits to stand before an international court, for crime against humanity. The fact that your outlet is anti-US has nothing to do with this reality. But that enmity, which you might justify by your own reasons, should not cover the truth about the suffering of the Iranian people at the hands of henchmen like Raisi. If the Iranian people approved of the regime, they would not have been in the streets chanting "Death to Khamenei, death to Raisi."
Posted by: nooredin | Aug 1 2021 6:43 utc | 55
@Sam F | Aug 1 2021 1:21 utc | 48
Hoarsewhisperer has been a generally well-informed and decent commenter: his comment certainly does not deserve your denunciation: Most of us have little insight into affairs in Sweden, so please inform rather than denounce!
The ignorance demonstrated here is astonishing. Your lack of insight is confirmed. Hint: Norway and Sweden are different countries.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 1 2021 7:08 utc | 56
Jimmy Dore finds that Xerxes Biden is leaving out much more than context. It appears that Xerxes Biden has run out of cortex. This is truly a pathetic reality for the USAi but it is what they worked so hard to achieve.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 1 2021 7:44 utc | 57
Norwegian | Aug 1 2021 7:08 utc | 55
This commenter should be blocked for abusive conduct.
Clearly the truth has little significance to him.
Posted by: Sam F | Aug 1 2021 10:15 utc | 58
@Sam F | Aug 1 2021 10:15 utc | 57
You are talking to yourself. Have an edifying day.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 1 2021 10:23 utc | 59
I do remember the sudden string of Iraqi victories at the end of the Iraq-Iran war...I thought it was a sign of Iranian army disintegration and wondered why the Iraq accepted the peace...
Nice to know the details...
Thanks MoonofAlabama
Posted by: Bjorn Holmmmgaard | Aug 1 2021 10:27 utc | 60
"... this sounds a bit fishy to me but is for the Swedish courts to decide." Don't hold your breath, b. Sweden is a Sheriff in the service of the empire. Remember Sweden sets the ball rolling in the travesty of justice that is Julian Assange's case.
Posted by: Steve | Aug 1 2021 10:58 utc | 61
War is the suspension of civilization by definition.
Posted by: vk | Jul 31 2021 18:50 utc | 12
I want to clarify what I meant by the derision of that statement. War is the suspension of empathy, and raises anger to the level that could be viewed as madness. This is true regardless of the level of education, technology, arts etc. If anything, savages would stick to whatever rules they have with more fidelity as they believe in taboos more genuinely.
The bloody war with Iraq and enemies within surely had an impact on the governmental terror in Iran. It does not mean we should approve, but it remains more productive to focus of the current fomenting of wars, sadistic economic sanctions etc. The "West" surely had a hand in fomenting Iraq-Iran war, with assorted lamentable consequences, and many wars that followed.
INTERESTINGLY, NYT has an article that is almost astonishing by provide explanatory context.
Israeli Officials Say Iran Is Behind Deadly Attack on Oil Tanker
Drones carried out the attack on a tanker managed by an Israeli-led firm, killing two people, officials said — apparently the latest in a series of maritime clashes between Iran and Israel.
----
Two mariners were killed, one British, one Romanian.
From the context provided by the article:
"Since 2019, Israel has targeted ships carrying Iranian weapons and oil through the eastern Mediterranean and the Red Sea — the latest iteration of a regional shadow war between Iran and Israel that has been waged for years across the Middle East.
Israel has been accused of frequent attacks and assassinations on Iranian soil, mostly targeting nuclear facilities, and it conducts airstrikes against Iran-linked groups fighting in the Syrian civil war and Iranian military bases in Syria."
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 1 2021 11:13 utc | 62
@Hoarsewhisperer:
"Obviously, you don't know much about the events of 22 July 2011. The manifesto became known after the events. The true story about what happened that day is not what you think it is."
You've said that at least twice now, so pray tell, what IS this "true story" you keep teasing us with?
Max @ 5 Which entities in the Financial Empire have +ve credibility?
Financial empire is part presentation of the problem, which is that
8 billion humans are experiencing manipulation by a centrally administered master
franchisor controlled nation state system. in which the governed billions have
no to little input and no say as their own governance.
The nation state system has disenfranchised the right of self determination, it has classified humanity for its convenience, and used that classification system to manipulate and confuse humanity according to the dictates of a criminal minded Oligarch few who own and operate franchise Central.
. finance is but one element in the control schema..
. language is another
. education is another
. legislative power is another
. executive power is another
. religion is another
. human rights is another
. color of skin is another
. geography of origin is another
. family tree another
. threat is another <=rule of law backed by use of force
. reward is another <=
. privatization of public assets, goods and services is another
. distribution of privatized monopoly powers is another.
Max @ 8 Where are the educated people of the world that let these crimes happen?
Education is a bureauracy, learning is a biological activity.. The degree means the student has been indoctrinated to a level, they will repeat, refer and support certain propaganda, the powers-that-be <=can rely on =>when evaluating a persons credentials and when producing mind-control propaganda.
Few educated persons are going to risk their creditabilities to right nation state wrongs. Those that do disappear.
Norwegian @ 16 Iran ended up being run by a bunch of corrupt, intolerant clericals, and the possibility of a more democratic (perhaps even social democratic society, given the level of institutional development prior to the revolution) was lost.
I think similar shames must have happened in the leadership of most of the major nation states. It seems the nation state franchisors prefer the human abusive mind to lead their 256 different nation state franchisees? I think Hoarsewhispereer @ 20 says it fairly well.. isolated Local knowledge is useless to the task of extracting the principle that explains why the nation state franchises are led by the most corrupt humans the system can promote. Michael888 expresses some local knowledge and I remind the Kennedy clam was eliminated, by outsiders, one by one.
I agree with karlof @ 24 .. those who initiate war .. s/b held liable..<= the behaviors of everyone else should be excused in the war games that follow. <=its an oxymoron to declare war and to enforce human rights in the same breath
@ 25 accusations consistently reflect the accuser's own history of behavior..
vk @ 12 War is the suspension of civilization by definition.
vk @ 34 The Geneva Conventions never worked. Never will. The problem here is: who's going to judge the strongest nations?
Roger @ 40 War is war and horrible, horrible things happen during it. The Geneva and Hague conventions are a thin veneer to cover up the reality, with the "lesser thans" not usually treated so well - just compare captured Generals to captured grunts.
Rutherford82 @ 44 In war, the only law is that of the jungle. Trying to regulate that is futile and a smokescreen to prevent a larger discussion about the inception of war and how to truly prevent those powerful people who do it from being able to do it.
<= justifies a 2nd concurrent government to detect, charge, prosecute, and punish those who use the nation state governments they command to infringe unalienable human rights. Collective humanity is more powerful than any one nation state.
Posted by: snake | Aug 1 2021 14:07 utc | 64
You search for one thing but find another...
That happens.
"War is the natural state of man"
-Thomas Hobbs
I recall reading Victor Davis Hanson writing that he had
put that saying to Dick Cheney (his frequent dinner host)
and Dick Cheney concurred.
I went searching for the above item but could not relocate it.
As a consolation I came across another example of how Obama was the Head Fake President.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/did-obama-break-his-campa_b_288112
Then-Senatorial candidate Obama in 2003 branded the Patriot Act “shoddy and dangerous” and pledged to dump it. He made the pledge in response to a candidate’s survey by the National Organization for Women. Obama reneged on the pledge. But he did work to shave off [head fake] some of the more blatantly outrageous constitutional abuses in the Act by imposing some [head fake] civil liberties protections in the gathering and use of intelligence, on the use of torture in interrogations, and requiring at least some semblance [! head fake !] of due process in court proceedings. But that paled in significance when Obama in a letter and with little fanfare and comment routinely let stand most of the still noxious provisions in the Act.
Obama justifies keeping nearly all of Bush’s terror war provisions in place with the standard rationale that the government must have all the weapons needed to deal with the threat of terrorism, even legally and constitutionally dubious weapons. That, of course, was the Bush and Cheney stock line. The one small difference between them and Obama is that Obama has sought to put a softer casing around [head fake] those illicit weapons. That’s no consolation for those who took candidate Obama and later Senator Obama at his word that he’d scrap or at least radically overhaul the Act.
Posted by: librul | Aug 1 2021 14:41 utc | 65
@ Posted by: Paul | Aug 1 2021 3:28 utc | 53
I'm not advocating for anything, I'm just describing the world as it really is.
In the real world, there won't be a Geneva Convention officer on the spot overseeing what the winner belligerent will do with their POWs. The winner will do whatever it pleases to the POWs - the Geneva Convention always triggering later (if they do). Either way, a stronger nation is needed to judge the winner nation under the Geneva Convention.
Like I said: I'm waiting the day the UN will take George W. Bush or Barack H. Obama to court under the Geneva Convention. Where's the damn Geneva Convention when it comes to POTUSes?
Hoarsewhisperer: you are even worse than c1ueless: FO! Go fix your own f***in joke of a country.
Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 1 2021 15:00 utc | 67
It's an ongoing process, that the trial starts now is purely coincidental.
The whole thing is political though, it's being tried as a murder, under Swedish law there is no way for a prosecutor to make that stick.
Funny thing: almost didn't make the news at all in Sweden.
Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 1 2021 15:06 utc | 68
@ snake (#64), thank you very much for a great candid response. I seek such honest responses from individuals with intellectual integrity.
I have shared this at “The MoA Week In Review - OT 2021-058” and looking forward to you and others adding additional insights.
Have a pleasant weekend!
Posted by: Max | Aug 1 2021 16:46 utc | 69
Sweden exported trucks to Irak but Irak found out that sweden sold military stuff to Iran with the help of east Germany by the way.
Then Irak stopped buying trucks then sweden started selling trucks to Iran. The same time our famous Palme negotiated peace between Iran and Irak. And we have a law that forbid selling vapons to fighting countries. Some speculate that Palme was ordered to be murdered by Irak.
Posted by: Sveno | Aug 1 2021 17:09 utc | 70
Hoarsewhisperer: you are even worse than c1ueless: FO!
Go fix your own f***in joke of a country.
Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 1 2021 15:00 utc | 67
That's not an unreasonable wish.
Trouble is, the influential politicians in Oz are bought and owned by a subset of the same freaks and misfits who select and bribe politicians in most, if not all, of the Christian Colonial West. Sweden is merely the most recent of the 'Scandinavian' mini-nations to shamelessly embrace its slave status by doing the Empires bidding, beginning with its assistance in keeping Assange in legal limbo by using Cheap Tricks, outside the court system, masquerading as pre-trial Due Process.
So it's not hard to guess why Casually Flexible Sweden's 'legal system' was chosen to host the forum for an Iran kangaroo court. Just because Sweden is a long way from Iran doesn't bestow its legal system with International Credibility, nor Sweden itself with a reputation for rigorous compliance with the principles and procedures of International Law.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 1 2021 17:28 utc | 71
The Swedish King and Head of State, and hence head of the legal system in Sweden is this man
Carl XVI Gustaf
Here are two relevant considerations about this individual:
963rd Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter* (1983)
He is the youngest child and only son of Prince Gustaf Adolf, Duke of Västerbotten, and Princess Sibylla of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.
Any questions?
*the Order of the Garter is a sovereign order. Which means that Knights must swear an oath of allegiance to the Sovereign of the Order. None other than Elizabeth II.
Posted by: John Cleary | Aug 1 2021 17:40 utc | 72
@ John Cleary (#72)
Are you saying Elizabeth is the Sauron? She provides the plot for the Empire to act to build a global empire. Who drives the plots? Who is the second in command? The mastermind – Saruman.
Empire has two major choices:
A) Continue with the evil plan for a war to win or LOSE
B) Come to terms with reality, apologize, return all the loot and work to build a better world.
It seems like they’re pursuing choice A to wage a war. Also, most Empire’s Orcs of humanity are no better, as they just want to rape Mother Earth for their fun, money and power. If this is the REALITY REALITY then how do you define the CHALLENGES to solve.
What are the core challenges for humanity to address?
Posted by: Max | Aug 1 2021 18:14 utc | 73
Max, of COURSE she's the fucking Sauron. Though personally I prefer Necromancer
Actually Necromancer II. The first being her mother, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, the Shadow Sovereign 1936-2001.
To quote Bigmouth Andy, Duke of York:
"She's incredible. She knows everything".
Posted by: John Cleary | Aug 1 2021 18:43 utc | 74
"These were not regular prisoners of war but quite arguably captured terrorists."
That is bullshit. They were attacking as an army, like an army and lost. They had air support and had lines of control.
You appear to be taking the GW Bush School of Nuance to heart.
Posted by: Seedee Vee | Aug 1 2021 18:45 utc | 75
@71:
You should probably stick to talking to horses. They won't notice when words keep pouring out of your mouth although you have no idea what you are talking about.
Our legal system more or less works. (Assange wasn't ever put on trial.) Sweden wasn't 'selected', the man was arrested here. Hence: here is where the trial is held.
This is what most probably will happen: after a lengthy trial the defendant will be found guilty, because in the lowest level court politically appointed jurors outweigh judges. On the next level, he will be acquitted due to lack of evidence, because there are no jurors, only judges, and they know and mostly follow the law.
The judgement will be appealed to the highest court, but they won't hear it because there's nothing principal to rule over.
So, cheap skate, when are you planning to stop whining about 'politicians' and start actually trying to change things?
Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 1 2021 19:19 utc | 76
Just to toss in a comment about the monarch question. Canada has a historical tie to Sweden, and the other Nordic nations, which was formed to defend against the British monarch. A bunch of beaver and baby seal hunting cod fishers and Viking-types engaged in some fairly impressive diplomacy. (There was a NATO (maybe a nato) before that other NATO.) The effectiveness of nato 1.0 is perhaps shown by the creation of the next version of the thing, which included the UK and the USA. Anyway, here’s my point: Canada’s national security ties to Sweden appear to not be looked favourably upon by Her Majesty. (I’m trying my hand at English understatement there.) I’m not sure if Her Majesty and His Majesty Carl XVI Gustaf really get on that well. So I’d consider that as well when considering the Order of Garter and Saxe-Coburg and Gotha stuff.
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Aug 1 2021 20:47 utc | 77
@Bruised Northerner | Aug 1 2021 20:47 utc | 77
Well, we cannot help who we are, so I don't rely on the blood connection.
But we can help what we do.
Carl XVI Gustaf
Carl XVI Gustaf is King of Sweden. He ascended the throne on the death of his grandfather, King Gustaf VI Adolf, on 15 September 1973.
I admit I know nothing about the Swedish constitution, and what I say is presumed on Swedens similarity to other European constitutional monarchies. But I presume that at his Coronation the to-be king gave certain undertakings to the people under solemn oath. That is...."I will serve you".
Then.. in 1983
963rd Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (1983)
Now I repeat. The Order of the Garter is a sovereign order. It's head is sovereign; the Knights and Ladies swear an oath of loyalty to that head, who happens to be Queen Elizabeth. The only information I've been able to find indicates that the oath is that they will obey all statutes of the Order. Which really doesn't tell us very much.
Thats two solemn oaths. To two different masters (one of which happens to be a woman).
Where do the people of Sweden stand when conflict arises?
Logic would suggest that the later oath dominates. What do you think?
Posted by: John Cleary | Aug 1 2021 22:17 utc | 78
I am against the death penalty as well. The state cannot be trusted to administer it in an equitable manner. It is irreversible.
I wonder how many U.S. allies have done similar mass executions, perhaps not on the same scale but executing 50+ is a mass execution. I find it hard to believe that the KSA (the Saudis) have never done this. Didn't the KSA basically destroy an entire Shiite town?
Iraq had something close to mass executions of Saddam loyalists and members of ISIS but I don't have numbers.
Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Aug 2 2021 0:16 utc | 79
John Cleary | Aug 1 2021 22:17 utc | 78
The king has purely representative and ceremonial functions. He has no hard power at all:
Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 2 2021 10:54 utc | 80
Jörgen Hassler | Aug 2 2021 10:54 utc | 80
Thank you, Jorgen.
I cannot read Swedish, so can I take refuge in concepts?
It seems to me that EVERY monarchy says what you say. "We are purely representative, ceremonial and figurehead. We have no power. Everything we do is based on ministerial advice. Would you rather have President Tony Blair?"
That includes the British monarchy. Until a few days ago I still had posters saying Queen Elizabeth has no power.
But the fact of the matter is that such posters are simply repeating what they have been told by the television. Which, as we now know, is largely lies, or "fake news".
So let me go back to first principles. Are you, as a (I presume) Swedish national, quite happy that the Head of State in your country has sworn to obey the leader of a foreign power? That you, as a Swedish national, come second in the priorities of your monarchy and head of state? That whatever role is played by the king in your system of justice can be put at the service of Queen Elizabeth of England?
Do you know for certain that he was not involved in the entrapment of Julian Assange?
Posted by: John Cleary | Aug 2 2021 18:07 utc | 81
John Cleary @Aug2 18:07 #81
Until a few days ago I still had posters saying Queen Elizabeth has no power.
I appreciate your comments as they shed light on topics that are worthy of more discussion.
However, your comments appear to suggest that ultimate power revolves around the Queen. This perspective confuses me, and maybe some others, because it seems clear that the center of power shifted to USA long ago. That power is executed in coordination with 5-eyes and Israel. IMO this is not "power-sharing" (CIA & US Mil always remain on top) as much as it is compatriots executing on a shared vision. In this structure, I think the Queen is one of several power centers that rally compliance with the US-led Empire. CFR in USA is a similar vehicle to herd the establishment into compliance.
Think of the Queen as akin to Epstein - ensuring that the most powerful are compromised. From that POV, it's not surprising that a member of the Royal Family was involved with Epstein. I think we can well ask if Prince Andrew was compromised or simply playing along with the compromising of others (an unspoken royal duty?).
Thoughts?
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2021 18:50 utc | 82
I just want to add that if the British monarch has no power, somebody better inform all Canadians like me, who were educated in our public school system. And if the Swedish monarch has no power, well, that raises some perplexing questions here... as to the ever-so-slight amount of leverage that Canada has with Her Majesty (due to some kind of arrangement with His Majesty of Sweden) which brings the royal wrath upon us at times. (US to the south, Great Britain to the east, thankfully we have Russia to the north and west.) Or maybe it’s all fake news. From the schools, military, and sometimes, the media. It’s possible.
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Aug 2 2021 18:52 utc | 83
John Cleary and jackrabbit @ 81 & 82--
That's why I suggested to John it the end of last week's Week in Review that we compile our current evidence, look for more, and write an article based on those discoveries. I've also shared that info at Escobar's VK space saying that Assange's real adversary in the Queen/Royals because the UK isn't what we've been told it is.
@ 84 karlof1.... i think this is a useful exercise.. i have really appreciated john clearys post on this topic.. it does appears that the queen/royals have a huge role that is completely kept out of the public eye.... all this info i am very interested in seeing more on... i think a bit of an eye opener for me was a video that debsisdead shared a few months ago called the spiders web on banking in the uk - city of london.. for anyone who missed it, i think this paints an important part of the picture..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8
@ Bruised Northerner | Aug 2 2021 18:52 utc | 83.. we canucks really need to find a way to exorcise the royal connection that continues in our gov't... we need to get beyond colonialism and i can't think of a better way to begin this process, but removing canada from this colony mindset having the queen as the head of our gov't as much then just a figurehead... it is a historical fact but it needs to be let go of and replaced with our own independence.. screw the queen and all she and her royal family represent..
Posted by: james | Aug 2 2021 19:31 utc | 85
Re: John Cleary sovereign theory
I appreciate John Cleary’s sharing about Elizabeth’s power. However, not fully sold on it and have another hypothesis. It seems like the power switch happened in England during its civil war (1642-1651) and the establishment of its private central bank, the Bank of England in 1694. William of Orange was installed and the power construct changed and controlled by the world financiers (Global Financial Syndicate?). This led to Tolkien stating:
"The true equation is ‘democracy’ = government by world financiers.”
– J.R.R. Tolkien
There is no legal construct for the power in a nation to be assigned to the Global Financial Syndicate and also it will expose them. So they assume the form of Sauron and operate through the main administrator of the suzerainty - constitutional monarchy. Since they’re concentrated in the City, England’s Monarchs controls other suzerainties. The UK is at the core of the Financial Empire.
Here is the decision making construct:
– Decision Makers: The Global Financial Syndicate
– Suzerainty Power: Monarch
– Administrator: President/PM
– Operatives: Intelligence agencies
Posted by: Max | Aug 2 2021 20:41 utc | 86
Greetings, james , thx for the remarks. All I know is during the Hatcher/Regan years in the 80’s, when Trudeau Sr. was in power, Canadians chose to part from the Anglo-sphere (Thank you, Moscow, for helping to make this happen... and Canada’s Francophones who were one-third of the population at that time, if memory serves.) Europhilic Canadians wanted to align with the Continent, who looked to be as Anglo-persecuted as we were. Although PET was mostly not allowed to make televised addresses (a little too skilled in oration?), he did make a statement encouraging Canadians to support the monarchy, even if we rejected alliance with the UK (which would be the City of London or Downing Street, I suppose?) I can’t remember his reasoning, but I was persuaded by it. “Got it! Must support monarchy. Check!” I think it may have been to counterbalance the tremendous power of the American oligarchy? I think of The Queen’s Commonwealth Canopy Initiative which provides protection to the Great Bear Rainforest, as an example of a positive outcome from the monarchy.
The difficult part about Canada is that this location is so attractive, it invites conquest. That’s what military leaders claimed back then, anyway. They pointed out that our enthusiasm for all-things-European was going to get us invaded and re-conquered. (No neutrality for Canada, we have to be part of NATO. I was convinced of that back then, too.) The Queen might be scary but she keeps the dogs at bay. So I don’t know.
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Aug 2 2021 23:42 utc | 87
Bruised Northerner @87: "The difficult part about Canada is that this location is so attractive, it invites conquest."
Don't worry about that. The American Empire will never let anyone steal its hat.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 3 2021 15:20 utc | 88
William Gruff @88
Well, what we were told at the time (80’s) is that the US and the USSR would not participate in any attack on Canada. Everyone was still MAD back then, right? And for those who don’t live here, I think maybe you didn’t see the pure ugly hatred of Americana by the European ruling class back then. Less consolidated power in the EU, I presume?
See, we average Canadian folks thought that was an ideal arrangement for us to work together, but it just doesn’t work that way between the Old World and the New World. At the time, there were left-wing Canadian politicians flying to Sweden to discuss neutrality. The military explained to us that we had to shut all that down (and without Moscow, who knows what might have happened?) We remained a member of the Commonwealth and all Canadian embassies in Europe were staffed by (qualified, I’ll admit it) members of Canada’s Armed Forces. Any prominent person who arrived in Canada received national media coverage, and I think there might have even been a hotline, to the Dept of National Defence to report suspicious activity... by influential Europeans, especially on university campuses?
I noticed that PM Trudeau has resurrected part of this policy. When Dutch PM Rutte and Scottish leader Sturgeon visited Canada (separate visits), each received a prominent interview on national TV. I wondered if others of my generation remember that this means we are supposed to be on alert??
If Canada was truly fully submissive to the American Empire, the Pacific coastline, and the North, would look much different, I’m sure of that.
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Aug 3 2021 15:42 utc | 89
Do you know for certain that he was not involved in the entrapment of Julian Assange?
Posted by: John Cleary | Aug 2 2021 18:07 utc | 81
At the age of 95, the monarch continued her secret habit of reviewing intelligence reports every morning and issuing verbal orders delivered through her butler and designated flunkies. Or not. I would venture a guess if I were aware of any hint one way or another, but I think that it is unlikely.
UK definitely has a deep state, and the Crown enjoys some revenues that are not publicly known, but judging on historical precedents, I would guess that the deep state is a self-perpetuated clique controlled by people with full mental capacities (or close to it), and the Crown is simply a "passive investor".
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 4 2021 0:09 utc | 90
Piotr Berman | Aug 4 2021 0:09 utc | 90
I guess you missed these tips of the iceberg:
https://archive.fo/doK4j#selection-1109.0-1109.39
I've emphasised Scotland because they keep on telling me that the Scottish people are sovereign.
Posted by: John Cleary | Aug 5 2021 0:19 utc | 91
Here's some more, but not all, of the iceberg:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/series/queens-consent
Posted by: John Cleary | Aug 5 2021 0:34 utc | 92
The comments to this entry are closed.
well, it won't be the first time that sweden carries water for the empire... assange was the previously most outstanding example, thanks sweden... does this mean sweden is going to go after bush, cheney, rumsfield and etc for the countless innocent people who were murdered in iraq thanks these sycophants?? how far back are these puppets for the empire going to go?? nice negative spin on iran though, and i am sure that is the whole purpose of this exercise....
Posted by: james | Jul 31 2021 17:11 utc | 1