Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 22, 2021

U.S., EU Profess Support For Belarus Then Launch A War Against Its People

In there attempt regime change the country the U.S. and the European Union have launched an economic war against the people of Belarus.

First they doubted the results of elections in Belarus which the longtime socialist President Alexander Lukashenko had won against an politically unexperienced English teacher who was backed by a 'western' aligned group with a strong neoliberal program.

Belarus is still a mostly socialist industrialized country with many production assets owned by the state and relatively good social services. The people of Belarus have seen their neighbor countries Russia and the Ukraine go through extreme economic problems and poverty after the Soviet Union broke down. Neoliberalism had ruined those countries. It is thus quite plausible that a majority does not want to experience that in their own country and that Lukashenko has indeed won the votes of that majority.

The U.S. and EU claimed election fraud and supported demonstrations and riots against the results. This was an obvious color revolution attempt directed from the outside by 'western' supported forces.

The demonstrations soon died down. The color revolution attempt had failed. A few sanctions against some Belorussian politicians and functionaries were issued by the U.S. and the EU with claims that they are supporting the people of Belarus. But the effort soon ran out of steam and went no further.

Then a mysterious bomb threat against a plane flying from Greece to Lithuania led to the pilot deciding to land the plane in Minsk. Two passengers on board had outstanding warrants against them and were arrested after passing through passport control. A U.S. paid agitator for the color revolution immediately claimed that plane had been 'hijacked' to arrest the two people.

However the evidence provided so far shows that this was a typical bomb threat as they happen every once a while all over the world and that the pilot's decision to land in Minsk was absolutely normal. The authorities in Belarus reacted to the incident exactly as they are supposed to do.

But the whole western media and its politicians promoted the 'hijacked' propaganda version.

Moon of Alabama has discussed the evidence and laid out the timeline, narrative control and consequences of the incident.

The fake story propagandized by the media reignited the regime change efforts and was used to rush out new sanctions against Belarus. These are no longer directed at only a few persons but aim at the core of the Belorussian economy and thereby at all its people.

As the New York Times headlines:

Belarus Faces Expanded E.U. and U.S. Sanctions, Targeting Economy

European Union foreign ministers, meeting in Luxembourg, also voted on Monday to hit important parts of the Belarus economy — banking, oil and tobacco and, notably, the potash industry — representing an effort to broaden the punishment by penalizing organizations rather than just individuals responsible for repression. Those sectoral sanctions are expected to be confirmed by European heads of state and government who meet later this week.
...
We didn’t use economic sanctions in the beginning because we know they affect everyone, because they affect the economy,” Mr. Borrell said. But he also said that Brussels was prepared for a fifth round of sanctions if necessary.
...
Asked Monday morning about what these sanctions are expected to accomplish, Mr. Borrell, the bloc’s foreign policy chief, said the new sanctions would increase the pressure for change.

“Sanctions are a way of putting pressure on the government of Belarus,” he said. “And these are going to hurt the economy of Belarus, heavily. What do you expect when you punish something? To change their behavior.”

Borrell admits that the new sanctions against the economy of Belarus will hurt all its people.

His 'theory of change' is that the 'sanctions increase the pressure for change'.  But there is no evidence that the theory works.

Economic sanctions that hurt all people of a country tend to strengthen the government. Pushed into poverty the people become more reliant on government help. I am not aware of any example where sanctions which pushed people into poverty have then let to the people overthrowing the government they depend on.

Neither will the sanctions change Lukashenko's behavior one bit. They will only confirm his opinion about the 'west'.

Even while the U.S. and EU profess support for the people of Belarus they are punishing them by plunging them into poverty.

As Stephen Gowans noted on Twitter:

With friends like these, enemies are redundant.

---
Previous Moon of Alabama post on the Ryanair incident in Belarus:

They will hurt all people in Belarus. Those people who the U.S. and EU claim to help.

Posted by b on June 22, 2021 at 17:29 UTC | Permalink

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The irony of it all, Belarus to be sanctioned on the 80th anniversary of the nazi attack that destroyed that USSR republic. As time goes by it is hard not to say Nazi Germany was the NATO of its day, a few professional historians post here regularly, they know very well that it was not Germany alone who caused a third of the Belarus population to be killed plus hundreds of cities and villages to be destroyed.

Lukashenko will address the nation tonight from the Brest Fort, where an epic battle was fought, a graffiti was found on one of its walls: "I'm dying but I shall not surrender, farewell my homeland". That says it all, not a single MSM member had anything to say today about this sad anniversary, which brings me back to where I started, this EU is resembling nazi Germany more and more every day.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 17:56 utc | 1

A link to Lukashenko speech to begin soon, no translation or subtitles I assume. The commemoration will take place all night since the attack started at 4:00AM

https://t.me/pul_1/3050

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 18:01 utc | 2

His 'theory of change' is that the 'sanctions increase the pressure for change'. But there is no evidence that the theory works

Iran, Venezuela, Cuba and Russia have in fact shown that sanctions increase support for the government.

They say madness is doing the same thing over and over again and each time expecting a different result.

All these sanctions are going to do is push Belarus and Russia into an ever closer union.

Posted by: Down South | Jun 22 2021 18:01 utc | 3

Perhaps Mr Lukashenko should ask Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg and Spain when will be their own elections for Head of State.

You know. So he can learn how to do it better.

In addition he might also ask them whether their head of state has sworn fealty to a foreign power.

Posted by: John Cleary | Jun 22 2021 18:13 utc | 4

EU foreign policy chief Borrell:

"These [economic sanctions] are going to hurt the economy of Belarus, heavily."
"We know [economic sanctions] affect everyone, because they affect the economy."

So, as b points out, Borrell and the EU are saying they are knowingly and deliberately going "to hurt" everyone in Belarus "heavily" to "increase the pressure for change", meaning, of course, "regime change" of their democratically-elected government.

These US-led economic sanctions are a brutal knee-on-neck collective punishment of civilians because the US/EU don't like the democratic choices that those civilians made. Under the Geneva Conventions, collective punishment is a war crime. International humanitarian law clearly prohibits collective punishment.

The Western foreign ministers are deliberately going to press the heavy weight of their collective knee onto the neck of the Belarussian people until they gasp "I can't breathe!" in order to try to force them to undo their sovereign, democratic choice. And our captured media, which constantly claims "foreign meddling!" by others, will completely pretend - in best Orwellian fashion - to not see this obvious and brutal foreign meddling.

Posted by: Candian Cents | Jun 22 2021 18:27 utc | 5

thanks b.... i don't understand how the euro people/politicians can justify this, other then subservience to the usa-uk regime change agenda they have had going on for what seems like forever...

@1 paco... thanks for your perspective and summary.. much appreciated..

Posted by: james | Jun 22 2021 18:28 utc | 6

This is a clear human rights violation - a war crime - a crime against humanity.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 22 2021 18:32 utc | 7

Paco @1--

As you imply, the Nazi goal was taken up by the lone remaining undamaged power at WW2's end, and we now have an excellent book detailing how it was done and by whom, Tomorrow, the World: The Birth of US Global Supremacy, an open preview is available at the link that covers the Intro and most of the first chapter. This topic has been discussed occasionally on open threads and I won't renew it now, but it must be truthfully acknowledged that the Outlaw US Empire's main goal is complete global dominance just as was the goal of the Tripartite Pact that grew out of the Anti-Comintern Pact, which was aimed at destroying the USSR and Communism, and got its great start 80 years ago today. Clearly, the inheritors of that project are still trying and are gradually being revealed for what they actually are--Fascists of the Neoliberal variety.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 18:40 utc | 8

Sanctions, hurt the people a lot just to touch the govt. I wonder how the U.S. public would feel if anyone openly suggested that they wanted to really impact our economy?


[We still get steamed about the 'Arab oil embargo of 73' and they just decided not to sell us their oil, those were not extra-territorial sanctions (our specialty). We in the U.S. call ourselves great and have a remarkable lack of empathy]

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jun 22 2021 18:43 utc | 9

Borrell admits that the new sanctions against the economy of Belarus will hurt all its people.

His 'theory of change' is that the 'sanctions increase the pressure for change'. But there is no evidence that the theory works.

Economic sanctions that hurt all people of a country tend to strengthen the government. Pushed into poverty the people become more reliant on government help. I am not aware of any example where sanctions which pushed people into poverty have then let to the people overthrowing the government they depend on.

It makes sense if one abandons the Geopolitics theory and adopts the Marxist theory. In that case, we're not talking about equally competing Nation-States for world supremacy, but of the struggle between capitalism and socialism.

In this scenario, economic sanctions make all the sense in the world: if the people suffers, then socialism fails; if socialism fails, then the peoples of the capitalist world are dissuaded from class struggle, which could topple the capitalist governments around the world in benefit to socialism.

Economic sanctions do work. They work because they serve as material base for the capitalist elites to engage in propaganda warfare in their own countries against socialism. There's a reason why Venezuela became such a pejorative name in the capitalist world: if it wasn't for the sanctions, working classes of the capitalist world wouldn't associate hyperinflation and empty shelves with socialism (through the example of Venezuela).

Geopolitics is good as a tool of analysis of short term history and of understanding how the modern capitalist governments think. But it is, ultimately, not a science. For a scientific analysis of world politics, only Marxism will do.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 18:44 utc | 10

Canadian Cents @5--

Agree 100%. So much for Putin's essay and his attempt to get the Outlaw US Empire to change its ways--Don't forget what Empire runs the EU. The sanctions are clearly the work of the Outlaw US Empire then diktated to its vassals to implement. IMO, the EU just shot itself in the head regarding any hopes of improved relations with Russia. Belarus will retain nominal sovereignty, but it will now rejoin Russia for all intents and purposes. The Baltics and Poland will soon scream economically too as all trade with the Union ceases. It's really a shame that the Soviets stopped at Berlin in 1945 given the history since then.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 18:52 utc | 11

Thank you for your continual good work.

The only folks who appear deranged and delusioned are the media hyenas sniffing for road kill. Biden's America is Back campaign is a bloodletting war cry. And Russia's "Nope, no reason to take the USA off the 'enemies' list" is tacit understanding of that cry. The USA, or that cabal that runs it, is doubling down one last time for monetized Empire.

The 'rivals' have stood down for nuclear war, but war is very much afoot.

Posted by: gottlieb | Jun 22 2021 19:00 utc | 12

I imagine that the Global Times editor's prose will become even angrier with the Belarus sanctions as China's already rather peeved at the entire West as the current editorial shows. And those sanctions as reasoned by Canadian Cents @5 constitute gross violations of human rights. Here're China's current feelings:

"Washington has never really cared about the welfare of the people of Hong Kong and Taiwan. All it wants is that Hong Kong will continue to be turbulent, Taiwan will continue to confront the mainland and the US can gain political benefits from it. The US most of the time hijacks the international community's right to define democracy, freedom, and human rights. It has affected some people's judgement. When addressing the opening of a Human Rights Council session on Monday, United Nations (UN) High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet said that she hopes for a "meaningful access to the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region" this year to assess the human rights situation there....

"China does not accept the narrow definition of human rights made by the US and the West. China's improvement on human rights is advancing simultaneously with the construction of the country's economy and people's livelihood, and it overlaps with the well-being of the people. As the largest developing country in the world, China's vision on human rights stands on solid ground and echoes the people's wish for a better life. The Chinese are aware of what they want most, and they approve of the agenda such as human rights set by the government.

"That is why the Chinese people are increasingly opposed to external criticism of China's human rights. Chinese people do not buy into the forces that are "fighting" for our human rights. The only thing we want to say is: please stay away from China and the Chinese people. There is no need for them to stand with the people in any part of China. The Chinese people will stand firmly with the Chinese government in this struggle."

The political cartoon at the top of the linked page tells a very long story of massive crimes by the collective West being swept under the rug. Now Belarus can be added to that list. Given the continuity of behavior by the Outlaw US Empire, perhaps the Putin/Biden Summit was a waste of time after all despite the concession about nuclear war.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 19:12 utc | 13

Posted by: Down South | Jun 22 2021 18:01 utc |

They say madness is doing the same thing over and over again and each time expecting a different result.

There's nothing mad about this strategy. If it doesn't make sense, your premise is probably wrong.


Think of it as the Imperial Pottery Barn rule :

"What cannot be owned must be broken"

Posted by: robin | Jun 22 2021 19:33 utc | 14

VK,

The US is not capitalist. There are no "capitalist powers." There are only managerial states. Read Orwell who, yes, was a socialist.

The US was overtaken by ex-Trotskyites in the form of Neocons, eg. Irving Kristol. They redefined the US from a nation-state into an ideological state, as the Soviet Union had been. But we do not have any particular ideology here; the ideology is always changing.

The US empire does not serve the interests of the American people, you'll agree. But it's not as simple as "capitalism." These ideological battles are theatre. They are not the real battles. They are pretend religions, like sports teams, which motivate and justify war for two different elites.

Read James Burnham, another ex-Trotskyite, on Machiavellians and, separately, on the managerial state. However, Burnham became something akin to a Neocon; so, certainly, don't come to the same conclusions as he did.

Posted by: Weaver | Jun 22 2021 19:35 utc | 15

Please name a nation that the Financial Empire has sanctioned and later not captured it through a war or regime change. Sanctions are a prelude to a nation that you’re next in the line to be CAPTURED.

Name a nation in the Non-$ Bloc (China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Belarus...) that hasn’t been subjected to sanctions. Is the Dollar Empire pursuing the "Death by a thousand cuts" approach against the Non-$ Bloc? Lingchi (in Chinese), translated as the slow process or slow slicing.

Won’t sanctions push Belarus towards Russia? Isn’t Belarus one of Russia’s red lines?

@ gottlieb (#12), agree with your assertion about the Empire doubling down.

Posted by: Max | Jun 22 2021 19:38 utc | 16

I obviously do not like Trotsky, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc. However, I have read some socialist books. They claim even Trotsky, and others, did not see the Bolshevik revolution as truly socialist/communist. It was a "new form that wasn't capitalist."

To communicate and think clearly, one must first define all of these categories. Otherwise, there is no meaning.

A step forward perhaps is to admit there are problems with every society, to try to take what works from each. China seems to have defined "communism" as a rejection of democracy. And the US only pretends to respect democracy; so, the US only demands that China adopt "democracy" as a means of changing China's elite. But it sometimes seems that democracy vs. oligarchy is more the ideological divide, to the extent any real ideological difference exists.

Posted by: Weaver | Jun 22 2021 19:42 utc | 17

Robin, "the Imperial Pottery Barn rule" is an extremely good analogy. I'm going to have a hard time citing you if I ever use that. I've also seen US foreign policy described as "rubblization," with regard to Syria especially.

Posted by: Weaver | Jun 22 2021 19:50 utc | 18

The economy of Belarus had been on a downward trajectory for quiet some while already. A good indicator is working migration which is from Belarus to Poland and in particular to Russia and not reverse. It is true that Lukashenko spared Belarus the chaos through which Russia went in the 90`s. But he did so by keeping the economic problems unresolved that lead to the downfall of the Soviet Union and the subsequent chaos in the first place. During the 90`s Russia paid for it within the framework of the "kisses for oil"-policy and when Moscow`s patience eventually ran up the Belarusian economy started to decline.

The target of the sanctions aren`t Lukashenko. During their last meeting Putin and Lukashenko didn`t only talk about hijacked planes and whow trials, Putin also agreed to support Lukashenko with a loan of half a billion. The message from Brussels is clear: If Moscow wants to keep Lukashenko it will have to pay the bills.


Maybe it`s a good time to invite Borrell once again to Moscow and this time to actually try to sort out things.

Posted by: m | Jun 22 2021 19:54 utc | 19

Economic sanctions do work. They work because ...

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 18:44 utc | 10

In the case of Belarus it is not certain. For example, potash is a major product of Ukrainian export, but the world trade in that product is dominated by three countries: Canada, Belarus and Russia. EU can impose embargo, so they can import from Canada instead, but in turn Canadian customers will have to rely on Russia -- and Belarus. The second category they want to sanction are products of oil refining. Here a simple substitution is possible: Russia uses products of Belarus and exports her own.

In the first case, trade routes get longer which is not a "green outcome", more fuel burned by ships. More or less the same happens in the second case. The negative impact will be less painful that normal variations in international prices.

The sanctions were spectacularly successful in the case of Venezuela because Venezuela had too many assets in the West and too large dependency on Western products: their oil has to get gasoline added because it is too dense otherwise, and they relied on refineries in the Caribbean. Even so, the political boons for the West are meager.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2021 20:03 utc | 20

robin @ 14

There's nothing mad about this strategy. If it doesn't make sense, your premise is probably wrong.

The strategy is supposed to lead to the population overthrowing the existing government of the targeted country to ease the economic pain inflicted by the sanctions.

I gave concrete examples where even though heavy economic hardship was inflicted it did not lead to regime change and neither will it in Belarus’s case. In all the cases I mentioned it in fact lead to an increase in support to the government in charge.

The same will happen to Belarus.

Moreover the whole goal of the attempted regime change was to cleave it definitively away from Russia a la Ukraine. This too will not happen. It will in fact lead to an ever closer union between Russia and Belarus. The total opposite of what the attempted regime change has been trying to achieve.

The sanctions will not achieve the political objective.

Posted by: Down South | Jun 22 2021 20:17 utc | 21

The US is not capitalist. There are no "capitalist powers." There are only managerial states. Read Orwell who, yes, was a socialist.

Posted by: Weaver | Jun 22 2021 19:35 utc | 15

This is a rather strange interpretation. The power of the managers stems fro the power of large active shareholders, while the majority of shares may be passively owned by middle class in the form of retirement savings. As it was explained: "Contrary to popular beliefs, there are no bulls and bears on Wall Street, but sheep and wolves. And the money is not made by the bah bah crowd", followed by the distinction between "smart money" and the rest of investors. The financial games that we discussed in the case of Boeing may seem stupid in terms of "maximizing long term stock value", but excellent for providing gains for active investors who got artificial run-up in stock prices followed by selling to the "bah bah crowd".

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2021 20:19 utc | 22

Weaver "China seems to have defined "communism" as a rejection of democracy."

What is democracy? In the west, it has become apparent that whoever controls the media controls democracy. We elect rulers. Wew do not get any say in formulating many laws as in each new law being put to a referendum. China voted with its feet during the revolution. Many culture elect or otherwise have local leaders who everyone in the community knows and the community leaders decide on or elect who has positions at the next level of governance and so forth. In that way, China is very democratic beginning at the grass roots level.
The Chinese government have done a huge amount in bringing millions of people out of poverty, creating better living conditions for its people. When there is constantly and increase in prosperity at all levels, even if some prosper more than others, the people have an optimistic outlook.
Democracy at a national level where voters do not personal know the candidate requires accurate information to enable an informed vote. In that way, democracy in the west is non existent - it is an illusion but the sheeple cling to it.
Compared to the so called west, China government is very much of the people for the people.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 22 2021 20:31 utc | 23

ICAO targets tomorrow for interim report on the flight.
https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/safety-ops-regulation/icao-targets-june-23-initial-ryanair-belarus-incident-report
I wonder whether it will say useful things. I'm pretty sure Belarus cooperates with them in the hope that ICAO will make clear what happened and I made sure to send a complaint to the public broadcasting at my place before that.

Another thing. While looking into the sources for claims that Protasevich was arrested on board I posted a link to video with such a claim on here. Unfortunately the contradictory content of the accompanying article caused confusion and Bernhard loudly concluded I was lying. This is understandable but not something people forget or forgive. The decent thing for Bernhard to do is retract that.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 22 2021 20:34 utc | 24

The economy of Belarus had been on a downward trajectory for quiet some while already. A good indicator is working migration which is from Belarus to Poland and in particular to Russia and not reverse.

Posted by: m | Jun 22 2021 19:54 utc | 19

Motivated by this post, I checked Trading Economics and plotted GDP PPP per capita for Belarus and Latvia. Both experienced huge drop in the transition from USSR out, deeper in Latvia, and for many years afterwards the plots were surprisingly parallel. There were two differences. Latvia had a bigger drop followed by a recovery in the 90-ties, suffered more after 2008 while Belarus got problems after 2014. Long term, hard to see "which system is better".

For sure, Latvia got much larger subsidies from EU that Belarus from anyone. Concerning the migration indicator, Latvia has a smaller percentage of the initial population for the period that Belarus, and it probably benefitted, in statistics at least, much more from remittances and population decrease (good for per capita indicators).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2021 20:39 utc | 25

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2021 20:03 utc | 20

Venezuela had too many assets in the West and too large dependency on Western products

Venezuela's FM Arreaza was in Moscow today and had a press conference with Lavrov. Among other things he talked about vaccines and Covax, lamented the freezing -sounds better that stealing- of over 6 billion US$ plus income from Citgo, more vaccines could be purchased. Both FM's defined the relation as strategic.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 20:42 utc | 26

It seems that wherever and whenever Josep Borrell gets involved in affairs relating to Belarus and Russia, he manages to make a big mess. Is he angling for Ursula von der Leyen's job as EU President?

Recall that he was sent to Moscow to beg for Sputnik V vaccines after UvdL failed to secure enough supplies of the Astra Zeneca vaccines for the EU from Britain. Borrell was either also tasked with mentioning Alexei Navalny or acted on his own initiative and implored the Russians to release the fraudster from prison. The Russian Foreign Ministry sent Borrell back to Brussels with his tail between his legs. No Sputnik V for the EU was the result and individual EU countries are scrambling to get their own supplies of it.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 22 2021 20:43 utc | 27

@ 24 tuyzentfloot... the problem with your last paragraph, is there is a picture of him in the shuttle bus with no police, handcuffs and what one would ordinarily expect if an arrest on board had been made... that theory doesn't stack up!

Posted by: james | Jun 22 2021 20:50 utc | 28

James, there is nothing at your link. Not sure if it has been removed or simply blocked from view here on oz.
This is what I get
File:Roman Protasevich at Minsk airport.jpeg/
Jump to navigationJump to search
No file by this name exists.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 22 2021 21:00 utc | 29

@ Peter AU1 (# 23), name a democracy that isn’t a suzerainty. We don’t elect rulers. We elect puppets that have been selected by the rulers. Who owns the media? Who creates majority of money in your nation?

"The true equation is ‘democracy’ = government by world financiers.”
– J.R.R. Tolkien

"Democracy" is a temporary phase of history which allows the Global Financial Syndicate to take control from the earlier generation of dominant power players: the monarchies.

Long ago and far away, a group of very clever paleo-banksters figured out a way to stop those annoying periodic slave revolts... eventually it came to be known as "the two party system" (democracy/Republic) and it's working like a charm...Rulers make the slaves fight each other.

World Financiers & Banksters ENSLAVEMENT plan using democracy:
– Create a REVOLUTION & steal a region
– Create a Private CENTRAL BANK (First Bank of the USA, BoE-1694)
– Fund & control new rich individuals (Kleptocrats)
– Fund & control political PARTIES & MEDIA
– Nationalize the central bank (the Fed, BoE-1946)

Enslave & control people by DOMINANCE over economic & political powers & call it a DEMOCRACY. An interesting FRACTAL emerges when one analysis the formation of democracies.

What we have is “representative” democracies designed by the economically powerful solely for their interests and in this sense would always be functioning anti-democratically. In a money democracy (where the fundamental element of influence is the unit of money), the political and legal system is influenced and shaped by systems of power to protect and enhance those systems of power.

“There are none so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. They feed them on falsehoods till wrong looks like right in their eyes.”
– Goethe

Posted by: Max | Jun 22 2021 21:06 utc | 30

@ Peter AU1 (# 23), name a democracy that isn’t a suzerainty. We don’t elect rulers. We elect puppets that have been selected by the rulers. Who owns the media? Who creates majority of money in your nation?

"The true equation is ‘democracy’ = government by world financiers.”
– J.R.R. Tolkien

"Democracy" is a temporary phase of history which allows the Global Financial Syndicate to take control from the earlier generation of dominant power players: the monarchies.

Long ago and far away, a group of very clever paleo-banksters figured out a way to stop those annoying periodic slave revolts... eventually it came to be known as "the two party system" (democracy/Republic) and it's working like a charm...Rulers make the slaves fight each other.

World Financiers & Banksters ENSLAVEMENT plan using democracy:
– Create a REVOLUTION & steal a region
– Create a Private CENTRAL BANK (First Bank of the USA, BoE-1694)
– Fund & control new rich individuals (Kleptocrats)
– Fund & control political PARTIES & MEDIA
– Nationalize the central bank (the Fed, BoE-1946)

Enslave & control people by DOMINANCE over economic & political powers & call it a DEMOCRACY. An interesting FRACTAL emerges when one analysis the formation of democracies.

What we have is “representative” democracies designed by the economically powerful solely for their interests and in this sense would always be functioning anti-democratically. In a money democracy (where the fundamental element of influence is the unit of money), the political and legal system is influenced and shaped by systems of power to protect and enhance those systems of power.

“There are none so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. They feed them on falsehoods till wrong looks like right in their eyes.”
– Goethe

Posted by: Max | Jun 22 2021 21:08 utc | 31

Weaver @17

Your understanding of democracy and the prevalent Chinese understanding of democracy are divergent.

It is true that all of the political decisions in China are made by the communists; the CPC. But do note that the CPC has almost 100 million members. These are not simply voters like political parties have in the US, who just align themselves with a party and vote for it every couple years. These 100 million members of the CPC are actual decision-makers.

Of course, that is a lot of work and responsibility and not everyone in China wants to commit that much of their life to politics. With that said, how much of your life do you commit to politics? Does your biennial vote actually carry any weight, and do you take full responsibility for the consequences of it? Of course not on both points.

Those Chinese people who choose to do so live democracy. You, on the other hand, just play a shallow democracy game that is little more than a reality TV show like Survivor. Does Trump get voted off the island? Clinton? Sanders? That is your choice. Does America slaughter some more dark skinned people in the Global South? Do the banks get bailed out with your wealth? These things you get no say in.

Communists don't oppose democracy. They oppose the crappy reality TV "The Democracy Show!™" sham that westerners love to hate.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 22 2021 21:09 utc | 32

More poverty in the EU. More German pensioners collecting empty bottles and soft drink cans to get by.

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 22 2021 21:10 utc | 33

Max

I look on it as somewhat of a mixed group. Fellow travelers do the same thing but for different reasons. Finance, anglo supremacy ect. Amongst the vassal states in same cases straight out corruption as in selling their service es to the highest bidder, amongst the five-eyes, the elite in particular, in the current events of trying to bring down Russia and China, continued anglo dominance of the world is a very big driver. The anglosphere has been a dominant force in the world for close to 500 years and many are truly afraid of this ending. The cant envisage a world that is dominated by cultures other than anglo or anglo/europe.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 22 2021 21:16 utc | 34

Peter AU1 @29:

Fixed james' link for you:

Picture of Nazi on bus at Minsk airport

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 22 2021 21:16 utc | 35

Well, maybe in another 29 years of authoritarian rule (I know, he will be dead first), he can work this out.

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jun 22 2021 21:18 utc | 36

thanks william gruff.. here is a direct link to petri krohns full post worth reading again..
Petri Krohn | Jun 3 2021 16:08 utc | 82

Posted by: james | Jun 22 2021 21:26 utc | 37

I again supply Abraham Lincoln's definition of democracy which includes its attributes: "Of the People, By the People, For the People," which I've bolded and capitalized the key words for emphasis. By this set of criteria, both Russia, China, and Belarus are democracies but importantly the Outlaw US Empire is NOT, for it is controlled by a Neoliberal clique of Oligarchs. Those are the current facts of the matter and IMO well beyond debate.

Now to this thread's topic--An attack on Belarus by the same forces that attacked it 80 years ago. If you've yet to read Putin's essay containing what IMO is his final plea to the EU to shake off its fetters and join hands with Russia, then I suggest you do so. IMO, the EU has provided its reply, but then as I've already stated, the reply was really that of the Outlaw US Empire, a truly Fascist Empire hidden by what's now a very moth-eaten veil of what was once democracy as Lincoln described. I know Putin's accustomed to being insulted and ignored, but in this case he was slapped hard across his face. Perhaps Putin sought to use the reaction as the final determinant for Russia's overall policy direction--was there still any credence remaining in the Window to the West of Peter the Great and Russia's school of Europhiles? Of course, I can't speak for Putin, Lavrov or any other member of Russia's government and policy planers, but the attack on Belarus ought to finally slam that window shut for a good deal of time until the EU begs for forgiveness. IMO, Cold War 2.0 was begun today.

And it appears too many have also forgotten the 60+ years of resistance shown by Cuba.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 21:29 utc | 38

"What do you expect when you punish something? To change their behavior."

it puts democracy on its skin or else it gets sanctioned again...

where i live, if someone talked the way this global DV asshole does, someone else would not hesitate to kick his fucking teeth in. b/c he's talking about rape. plunder. turning another country into Iraq. Libya. Ukraine. Afghanistan. etc. etc.

vk | Jun 22 2021 18:44 utc | 10

they wouldn't be under sanctions if they weren't brutal oppressive tyrants, right? QED.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 22 2021 21:29 utc | 39

@ Peter AU1 (# 33), thanks for your candid response. Anyone that uses the mythical words such as, democracy, capitalism, free markets, independent media, freedom of speech,... is either novice or propagandist. It is better to be REALIST.

The Syndicate and the Financial Empire have ran out of LUCK. Their system has become unsustainable. A RECKONING and Reboot is coming, slowly but surely. They and their Orcs are increasing their liabilities everyday. It is better to face reality and end enslavement of people.

When Titanic was built they said it's the biggest ship in the world & it will never sink. In the end it stays at the sea bed. Titanic’s legend is unsinkable, with cargo of hubris and inequity...The Capital Cartel’s FUTURE is set with Titanic. “In God We Trust”

Posted by: Max | Jun 22 2021 21:34 utc | 40

Sanctions on Belarussian potash? Hey, the leading Canadian miner can step up and fill the demand. Oh the Canadian mining industry is really something.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/nutrien-to-boost-potash-output-amid-sanctions-against-belarus-1.1619951

I found this short news video with some info on the potash industry (referred to as a global oligopoly here), but I can't find a date on the video. It does talk of the effect of China's sanctions on imports of US farming products.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/commodities/video/nutrien-temporarily-shuttering-three-saskatchewan-potash-plants~1777393

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 22 2021 21:35 utc | 41

In relation to sanctions on the people. The US west is now bringing sanctions on all things Xinjiang in China. China had a lot straight out terrorist incidents there a number of years back with a number of Uyghars joining the terrorist group. There was similar poverty there as in other rural parts of China, and poverty is a good recruiting ground for extremists. The bombings there, like US freedom fighter elsewhere in the world targeted everyone, fellow Uyghars and other Chinese alike. China tackled this in a two pronged approach. Tracking down the extremists while at the same time eliminating poverty by set up industries that would employ the local people plus the relevant training. Poverty alleviation in Xinjiang was I think given priority over other areas.
The US west is now targeting those industries which brought reasonable or increasing prosperity to the majority of Uyghars.
Sanctions work to a reasonable extent in those countries that have an ethnic group that may as a whole tend towards or be easily recruited into extremist movements when the aim is to create domestic problems for the government of the target nation.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 22 2021 21:41 utc | 42

Belarus is a member of the OSCE....with many EU countries. But sadly it fails regarding Ukraine....failed to resolve Azerbaijahn and Armenia....and most probably would fail to back Belarus versus illegal EU sanctions against it. Head of OSCE has yet again and again been "advised" by Russia to step up re Minsk Agreement which is UN mandated....but fails every time. Pointless. Leave it .Ignore it.....unless it declare sanctions against Belarus illegal and authorises sanctions against EU. Has it such abilities....it seems very quiet.Charade.

Posted by: Jo | Jun 22 2021 21:44 utc | 43

Sanctioning people and groups in this way is similar to how gangs operate domestically in the US.

You can't use a public laundromat or go to a corner store in a dangerous neighborhood unless you respect and pay fealty to the local gang, and that means tolerating their nefarious activities, such as openly selling drugs and committing violent acts, often with guns. And the children all see it and are exposed to it despite the fact that almost nobody truly wants gang lifestyle near their children or themselves.

There are a lot of real parallels there between how the US relates to countries that don't do what it wants to how gangs relate to people in their neighborhood that don't do what the gangs want.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Jun 22 2021 21:44 utc | 44

Peter AU1 @ 29

Remove the ending forward slash in the URL and it will display.

Posted by: MoonHiggins | Jun 22 2021 21:45 utc | 45

Was the apple a commodity when Eve bit into it? If not, I question whether the true original sin occurred when her teeth sank into it, or if it came later.

What is to be done with the global commodities market? Anyone?

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 22 2021 21:51 utc | 46

@Paco #1:

The irony of it all, Belarus to be sanctioned on the 80th anniversary of the nazi attack that destroyed that USSR republic. …it was not Germany alone who caused a third of the Belarus population to be killed plus hundreds of cities and villages to be destroyed.

A more appropriate introduction would be: “In an unforgivable insult to all Belarussians…” Do European textbooks on history even mention the extermination of a third of Belarussian population?

Posted by: S | Jun 22 2021 22:04 utc | 47

Comes out Google, NIH, and USAID have been funding Daszak's research into viruses since 2010 (if not earler).

Posted by: lysias | Jun 22 2021 22:09 utc | 48

Thanks william, james and MoonHiggins on that link.

Max, I often think of the Titanic as I see the people about me. Some I talk to are fully aboard the anti China propaganda, others only partly so and if I mention the government they just say there is nothing they can do about it so not worth thinking about. They have other much more interesting things to do.
Now that we have successfully made an enemy of China, we are totally dependent on the US and wide open for the US to loot this country. If push comes to shove in this part of the world, we are nothing more than a forward military base for the US which they can abandon at any time.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 22 2021 22:17 utc | 49

@james 28, that is exactly the argument I gave flemish broadcasting (VRT): they had published the photo themselves. I also gave them the link to the footage which they may treat as 'unreliable'.
But that is not the same as trying to understand where they got the idea. It was not 'lying'.I found 3 reasons
- tensions on board caused Protasevich to leave one of the first
- an interview i saw on tv and which I later traced down, where a passenger said Protasevich was arrested on board.
- Viacorka posting about the arrest very soon , which could mean it happened on board.

Attention is selective. One can argue 'but this contradicts you'. Then maybe they'll say 'yes you're right , we didn't think of that.' or 'yes we don't understand that bit either', or 'yes but you are using footage from a source which is untrustworthy'.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 22 2021 22:17 utc | 50

Maybe belarus should allow its' citizens to have a choice; move freely to any other EU state or stay and if they stay they will be subjected to Belarus closing its' borders and diplomatic relationships to those EU countries that have decided to go to 'war' against Belarus. Belarus will now conmcentrate in strengthening its' ties to the East. Belarus President should tell its' citizens this and make them aware and prepared.

Posted by: john mason | Jun 22 2021 22:19 utc | 51

Posted by: S | Jun 22 2021 22:04 utc | 46

The way things are going the empire is going to get a Lukashenko in Moscow, that day they'll miss Putin, really miss him. Listen to his speech, no political correctness there, naked truth without the barroque formulae of diplomacy. It's about 20 mins.

https://youtu.be/mHluGbaAUa0?t=368

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 22:24 utc | 52

Belarus is an annoyance because it is a relatively functional socialist country with huge natural riches just in the way of making it through the major crisis of capitalism, which did not bow to the dictates of the Great Reset agenda being impossed through the instrumentalized "pandemic".

Lukashenka was offered a billionaire IMF loan is he would had lockdowned the country and had impossed mandatory vacciantions. He refused to lockdown the economy plus putting his ctitzens´health and natural inmunity at risk, and thus the color revolution intents started.

What the EU can not afford, as central core of the Great Reset agenda pandemic experiment, with origins in the US´major hedge funds, is the presence of a functional socialist sovereign state in the heart of Europe which still keeps some functioning industry and social benefits for its population, when in the EU has been stablished a full technosanitary dictatorship which includes not only the erasing of any economic activity to promote banking and corporate oligopolies through seizing of bankrupted littel to medium businesses plus real state, but also erasing of what remains of welfare state, also includimg the unleashing of a full apartheid state ( which has nothing to envy that of Nazi Germany..) against the citizen taxpayers who do not bend and accept being inoculated with experimental vaccines ( at this time, and only by official records, causing millions of serious side effects plus several dozens of thousands deaths in all range of ages being applied, this eventhough we do not know the real ammount of the mainly underreported side effects and deaths...) plus swallowing being taxed for everything including astronomical electricity bills, repaying for already paid roads, additional taxes for using their own cars, etc., making life for the majority of working masses just imposible or equating it to plain slavery in what constitutes the hugest theft and trasvase of wealth in the history of the world to date.

To be able to do this they only count with dictatorial measures once the fachade of "representative democracy" fell apart through the pandemic and, to keep the grip under this state of affairs, besides, lack of any alternative in the sight of the population....

The current divide will be throwing the vaccinated against the unvaccinated, as the bipartisan system of the "democratic project" fell apart along the whole "pandemic", as any party, from the "alleged" left to the right of always conspired and agreed in creating this two tier society with which to keep their privileges by avoiding the masses finding out and becoming aware what is really going on here...

Posted by: Asha K. | Jun 22 2021 22:30 utc | 53

In the case of Belarus it is not certain. For example, potash is a major product of Ukrainian export, but the world trade in that product is dominated by three countries: Canada, Belarus and Russia. EU can impose embargo, so they can import from Canada instead, but in turn Canadian customers will have to rely on Russia -- and Belarus. The second category they want to sanction are products of oil refining. Here a simple substitution is possible: Russia uses products of Belarus and exports her own.

In the first case, trade routes get longer which is not a "green outcome", more fuel burned by ships. More or less the same happens in the second case. The negative impact will be less painful that normal variations in international prices.

China just broke ground on a massive 4 km2 free trade zone targeted at cross border trade.

China will give Belarus favorable trade terms.

ROSATOM just brought online it's 1 Gwe nuclear power plant in Belarus. This together with the many Mwe of hydro plants built by China make Belarus an electricity exporter.

These sanctions are for the purpose of precluding the economic benefit of these projects to Belarus.

Neither Russia nor China have approved the 737 MAX as airworthy.

The MC-21 has gone into serial production, with plans to build 3 / month beginning in January.

I believe that Russia will strike a deal with China wherein China buys the MC-21, IL-142, and IL-96, continues and accelerates the C-929 widebody jet program, shelves the C-919 narrow body, and agrees on licensed construction of these in China, with sub-contract of components to Belarus, and the other loyal FSU states.

This deal will indigenize EUR-ASIA's 5,000 plane market, with planes sold to Pakistan, Iran, the ASEAN countries, Latin America, and Oceania.

I believe that Eur-Asia will de-authorize transit of it's territories by Boeing and AirBus aircraft, unless a quid pro quo is struck.

We live in interesting times.

INDY

Posted by: George W Oprisko | Jun 22 2021 22:39 utc | 54

@Max 30

While I tend to believe that the Goethe quote is real, I did not find from where it stems in Goethe's works. The whole garbage heap called "the Internet" does not produce a single correct citation, neither in english nor in german.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 22 2021 22:46 utc | 55

Sanctions serve an additional purpose beyond just making lives miserable in the target countries: they empower and uplift the people in the countries dealing them out. Sanctions allow people to say and think, "Aha! Look at how righteous and powerful we are: we punished those bad people in that bad country! What are they going to do--sanction us back?" This establishes the idea that the sanctioning countries possess a certain moral authority, which is important for attracting political support from the gullible intellectuals in the target country.

Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Jun 22 2021 23:13 utc | 56

@ aquadraht (#54), it explains the reality well. Is there a better way to communicate the crux of the quote. Please share.

Posted by: Max | Jun 22 2021 23:19 utc | 57

Along with Putin's article there was a presentation given yesterday: "Remarks by the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the EU and Euratom Ambassador Vladimir Chizhov at the online seminar «80 Years since Nazi Germany Invaded the Soviet Union», Brussels, 21 June 2021." Reviewed are the pro-Nazi acts perpetrated by various EU nations and the EU and USA's attempts to rewrite WW2 history, all of which are gross and disgusting. IMO, there's a very clear message in all that and the ongoing attacks against Russia and now Belarus (and of course the attack on Ukraine, now governed by Nazis), and that message is Nazism never died; it went into hibernation in the USA, Canada and elsewhere to finally emerge in the 1970s with the rise of its new political-economic philosophy--Neoliberalism. When the premier enemy of Nazism collapsed in 1989, it was attacked almost immediately, raped as if conquered by WW2, which would've been followed by further horrors if Yeltsin hadn't had a moment of sobriety that seems to have brought forth an epiphany related to his treason and the only way to atone for his crimes, which was for him to appoint Putin and resign. It was Putin and his small cohort of Russian patriots that saved Russia from the contemporary Nazis that control the Outlaw US Empire.

True to their Nazi roots, those running the Outlaw US Empire have used most every trick in the book aside from waging actual combat against Russia, although it has used its vassal's forces and its Terrorist Foreign Legion. And the masters of propaganda have made their intentions clear by their use of that tool that any peoples that resist the Nazis will be vilified and crushed, while today's equivalent Good Germans meekly do nothing to stop the crimes that happen almost daily.

Most will see my comment and pass it by, or read it and wonder what I'm drinking/smoking. I'm simply looking at the Big Picture and applying my knowledge of current and past events to present an analysis.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 23:33 utc | 58

@ Tuyzentfloot | Jun 22 2021 22:17 utc | 49.. thanks.. i don't discount the possible scenarios you describe... but i think as a propaganda tool - no matter the level of lies coming out of this - it seems to have worked, just like the skripal novichok story, just like the MH 17 story and just like a lot of stories - even as far back as the weapons of mass destruction in iraq which led to the war on iraq in 2003... these are all stories that always portray one side to be essentially evil and the other side - of dumbocracy and freedumb - as the side of eternal truth and goodness... to me it looks upside down! so yes.. maybe when roman p realized the plane was diverting to minsk he got up and raised a stink about it and so there were some arguments and he was told to cease and desist.. in fact maybe some of the western collaborators, like the guy who took the picture i tried to share - what was his role in conveniently passing that onto whoever releases the well prepared sound bite for the world wide media to jump on it??? regardless of all the conjecture, the west can only cry wolf so many times and it wears very thin after a while, especially when confronted with facts on the ground that run counter to their convenient scenario of just what happened.. it matters not.. the damage has been done... the west - usa-european union - uk - are quite okay punishing lesser powers in the absence of proof.. another example that crosses my mind immediately are the chemical weapon attacks in syria... meanwhile syria is still being financially sanctioned... this game can only go on for so long before more people see bullshit for what it is..

Posted by: james | Jun 22 2021 23:34 utc | 59

In addition to his article addressed to the EU, Putin today honored those who sacrificed whose names are unknown at their Memorial at the Kremlin Wall. He delivered a short speech, some of which he should've included in his article. Here's the meat of what Putin had to say:

"Today we are marking a sorrowful and tragic date: the Great Patriotic War began 80 years ago today.

"The great-grandchildren of those who stood up in defence of our Fatherland in the first minutes after the treacherous Nazi attack in 1941 have grown up, but this day, June 22, continues to evoke indignation and sorrow in the hearts of all generations, reviving pain for the mangled lives of millions of our people, because the trials they withstood in those terrible years have been forever embedded in our memory.

"It was not enough for the enemy to take our land. It came to destroy our people and to turn the survivors into slaves without a national language, traditions of their forefathers or their culture.

"History had never seen genocide on this scale before. Our blood still runs cold when we recall the methods used by the Nazis and their accomplices to implement their deadly plans and the atrocities they committed against peaceful civilians – the elderly, women and children.

"A response to that hateful, ferocious evil was the spiritual unity, solidarity and mass heroism of the Soviet people. People’s belief in the triumph of justice and in our Victory had unfathomable power. In the name of liberating our Fatherland, they withstood all the trials and tribulations, sorrow, suffering, and death on the frontline and in the rear, rising to the heights of courage and sacrifice in the flames of battles and during debilitating labour at the factories and plants. And they attained a truly Great Victory."

Today's Nazis are just as evil and use the same tools, just not as overtly since they also control the English language global media so very little truth emerges--think of what was done to Southeast Asia and the Phoenix Program followed by Chile in 1971 and most of Central America afterwards, with its Operation Condor and Death Squads. Then onto this century and Moderate Rebels. All of that and much more was done by the Outlaw US Empire, just like their Nazi predecessors.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 23:56 utc | 60

james @58--

this game can only go on for so long before more people see bullshit for what it is.

But for the people to see, they must have their eyes open and blinders removed. That nothing changes over multiple generations is proof of the Propaganda System's grand success.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 0:01 utc | 61

For those that think I'm too harsh, I suggest reading the softer words of Brian Cloughley who clearly isn't as cynical I and tends to think there's some good within the Outlaw US Empire. IMO, Putin's correct about Biden as the following will show, which also reveals a facet of the US Propaganda System:

"Certainly he [Biden] has made mistakes, the latest being to slap down a CNN reporter who asked him an awkward question, but he followed up by declaring he thinks that media reporters have 'got to have a negative view of life, it seems to me. The way you all, you never ask a positive question.'

"That’s a pretty ingenuous statement, but he’s absolutely right, and the tenor of U.S. mainstream reporting concerning the Putin-Biden meeting was redolent with regret that there hadn’t been a shouting match. There was frustration that there had been agreement about some matters, albeit modest. Then the topic of the U.S.-Russia summit meeting dropped off the West’s front pages and out of the broadcasting stream simply because it had not been a disastrous failure. It had been an annoying outcome for many people, and especially for supporters of the U.S.-Nato military alliance which is desperately engaged in trying to justify its existence by conjuring up threats around the world."

Yes, the outcome didn't fortify the Establishment Narrative. But with the attack on Belarus, it's back up and running more fiercely than before.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 0:21 utc | 62

@ 60 karlof1... it is true the goal posts keep changing and the game is rigged... no doubt about that.. maybe people will never wake up.. i am an optimist!

Posted by: james | Jun 23 2021 0:25 utc | 63

It has nothing to do with the anniversary of the start of Operation Barbarossa, but yesterday I started to reread Vassily Grossman's "Life and Fate". First time I read it was in the 1980s. But I had various reasons to want to reread it. I recently saw and was very impressed by the Russian TV miniseries of "Life and Fate". And then I read the fuller edition of Grossman's "Stalingrad" that was recently published, the prequel to "Life and Fate". Then I reread Beevor's history of the battle of Stalingrad. So I am ready to reread "Life and Fate".

Anyway, my recollection from having read it so many years ago is that, while it makes very clear how monstrous the behavior of Nazi Germany was during the invasion of Russia, the novel basically says that morally Stalinist Russia was no better.

Posted by: lysias | Jun 23 2021 0:32 utc | 64

“...We didn’t use economic sanctions in the beginning because we know they affect everyone, because they affect the economy,” Mr. Borrell said. But he also said that Brussels was prepared for a fifth round of sanctions if necessary...."

quite simply put, any such 'sanctions' which affect the livelihood, food supplies, health, etc etc of the general population are rightly defined in international law and the Geneva Conventions as Collective Punishment, and are war crimes against humanity.

the West, especially the US, the EU and Australia, is controlled by a thieving lying band of neo-con and neo-liberal war criminals, war mongers, and blood-thirsty monsters.

the US in particular has tormented and tortured many nations, especially since WWII, with illegal and immoral 'sanctions' and 'embargoes', especially (but certainly not limited to) Cuba, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Chile under Allende, Russia, Syria, Yemen, and poor Nicaragua.

The devil take all those western governments, and their propaganda/media apologists, spokesmen and women

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jun 23 2021 0:33 utc | 65

karlof1 #57

Most will see my comment and pass it by, or read it and wonder what I'm drinking/smoking. I'm simply looking at the Big Picture and applying my knowledge of current and past events to present an analysis.

I think you described the situation perfectly well. The nazi rebirthers maintain a persistent propaganda chant that mesmerises the audience, never ceases the din to allow any counter point, terminates effective opposition to their malign narrative and rewards sycophants and pays shills to protect the din from ever ending.

Keep drinking/smoking and passing the stuff around, as will I :))

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 23 2021 0:42 utc | 66

Thanks b and Commnetors

Posted by: jo6pac | Jun 23 2021 0:47 utc | 67

Tuyzenfloot #24

The conjecture that the pair were arrested on landing is contested because there is little proof and equally countered by other evidence. What has been said by many and reported by passengers that then flew on to Lithuania is that the pair were prevented from re-boarding AFTER the freight and luggage were found to be safe. That is the time they were reprocessed via the immigration controls at the passport verification point. By then their predicament in Minsk airport was widely published by themselves on social media and then by their own colleagues in Vilnius or Poland or wherever their headquarters is located.

Their ridiculous self publicising actually was the cause of their undoing afaik. It was also reported that Protasevich even made loud martyr-like announcements on the plane as it approached the Minsk airport. They tipped off the typically slow moving state bureaucracy by dangling their fugitive identity/notoriety in everyone's face.

These were trained disrupters of society, trained change agents funded to infiltrate and lead a social uprising to sabotage a government, trained to put at real risk the lives of civil police in volatile times. These expert western trained dumbasses did themselves in through stupidity and their western trainers have no remorse.

If you have proof of their arrest at the landing then do post it here for consideration.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 23 2021 1:09 utc | 68

It looks like the sanctions will assist the worlds largest mining company, BHP, as well as Canada's and Germany's potash industry.

https://www.bhp.com/media-and-insights/news-releases/2021/06/potash-briefing/

https://www.bhp.com/our-businesses/minerals-americas/jansen/

https://smallcaps.com.au/south-harz-potash-fill-europe-needs-demand-prices-surge/

Once again the inept foreign policy cabal will achieve the opposite of their desired effect: Belarus will become closer to Russia, not install a NATO friendly anti Russian government.

Posted by: Paul | Jun 23 2021 1:12 utc | 69

karlof1

I often wonder about Yeltsin. He brought great hardship to the Russian people but crime I am not too sure about. A total inability to bring about the change he wanted for Russia I think might be closer. I have read some stuff over the last few years on Russians wanting to be free of the satellite states that made up the eastern block and the soviet union. Smoothie at his blog has put up a few bits on how Russians thought of the US during that period. American music was a very big thing there. Putin has said a number of times the leadership of the Soviet Union knew there had to be change but had no idea how to - in that I think how to smoothly evolve from the communist ideology to something different.
Yeltsin appointed and quickly sacked many prime ministers before appointing Putin. Instead of sacking Putin, he appointed Putin acting president and resigned. I tend to think that in going through those prime ministers he was looking for somebody that could lead Russia back to prosperity, and with that, I also think his speech at the handover of power was genuine. He made many mistakes, but that decision that Putin was the man to lead Russia, I think cancels or balances a lot of those mistakes when it comes to judging him.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 1:12 utc | 70

@69 Peter AU1 (and karlof1)

I agree with your take on Yeltsin. Certainly his gift of Putin wiped out a lot of damage he caused. And that speech always struck me as being saturated with gratitude for the chance of redemption. I was always convinced it was completely genuine.

I have read somewhere that in the final months or years, Yeltsin's cooperation with the west markedly slowed down, as if he were foot-dragging. There is the suggestion that the enormity of what was happening to his country began to sink in on him. But I don't know where I read that, and never saw it repeated anywhere else. For what it's worth, I believe it.

I have always assumed that what was left of the security state, for which Putin worked, was also the force that made the proposal to Yeltsin to appoint Putin and resign. It always felt too symmetric an action to have followed from a series of organic decisions. It was a package, and one that seemed unlikely for a man to take on his own - unless the remorse alluded to above was truly breaking him, as could well be possible also.

All that's for the scholars to determine. But poetically, I always felt that the security apparatus of Russia had done the one thing that the security apparatus of every country in its mythology believes it is for: to save the nation from its ruin if no other actor is capable. And in the case of Russia, this action was golden.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 23 2021 1:47 utc | 71

white peoples' burden.
Uncivilized people go out of line we should straighten them up with our sanctions. But really, we are their best friends. We only have their best in our hearts. Seeing those people suffer is a burden in our hearts.

Posted by: aka | Jun 23 2021 2:02 utc | 72

lysias 63 As across europe, a good number of anti communist soviets joined the nazi's when they invaded. Putin does not disparage communism but he has a thing against the Bolsheviks. As for the Georgian Stalin's Soviet Union and which was the worse between it and Hitlers invading forces, The germans had invaded to anihlate Russians and communists and create Lebensraum for Germans.
We here much about the death camps an furnaces for jews. Germany wanted to hide the genicide of the European jews as they new this could never be condoned in the west and make it difficult to arrive at a truce or conduct peace negotiations with Britain and America. Not so with the Russians and soviets. Prisoners captured during the invasion were simply put into wire enclosures for the northern winter with no shelter and virtual no food. They died like flies. The luckier ones lived a little longer as slave labor. When the Germans were being pushed back out of Soviet Union, they used a scorched earth policy which included any remaining inhabitants of villages and towns.
The Nazi's were correct. Here in the west we hear virtually nothing of the genocide of Russians and communists in the territory controlled at one point by nazi Germany, but we hear much about the European holocaust. And even then, the Roma and others are hardly mentioned.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 2:03 utc | 73

Another gem, b.
I love it.
Posts like this are why I come have a drink here.
Bravo!

Posted by: Cadence calls | Jun 23 2021 2:06 utc | 74

@Paco #1, @S #46

In case anyone thinks it’s “an unfortunate coincidence”, here’s another story.

The Motherland Monument was built in Kiev in 1981 to commemorate the victory of the peoples of the Soviet Union over Nazism. What do you think Ukrainian “activists” would do with the monument on June 22, 2020, the 79th anniversary of Nazi Germany’s invasion of the Soviet Union that resulted in deaths of 26 million Soviet people? Deutsche Welle Ukraine proudly reported on it at the time:

DW українською @dw_ukrainian - 8:12 UTC · Jun 22, 2020

Батьківщина-Мати в Києві тримає веселковий стяг - символ ЛГБТ-спільноти. Активісти створили відео за допомогою дрона. Акцію назвали #Матизрозумієтапідтримає.

Скриншот iз Facebook-сторінки #KyivPride

[picture]

(Click on the timestamp to see the picture.)

The “campaign” was created by Saatchi & Saatchi Ukraine and on June 21, 2021 was awarded Silver Lion in Outdoor category at Cannes Lions 2021.

Posted by: S | Jun 23 2021 2:09 utc | 75

To add to my above post I think Stalin's utter ruthlessness is what enabled the soviet union to survive, turn the tables and then defeat what had been the most advanced and battle hardened military force in the world at that point in time. The battle of Kursk, the biggest land battle by far in history. Operation bagration in which the soviets eliminated Germany's main fighting force - army group center. Beria was put in charge of war production. Seeing the numbers of tanks planes ect that the soviet union produced in those years when there main industrial centers had been taken out, when production had to be moved to the Urals - those numbers are incredible. Total ruthlessness but it defeated the most powerful military force the world had known until that point and the the majority of Russians and communists from almost certain genocide.

We seem to live in a world were everything is ether the Hollywood ultimate evil or the white hatted good guy along with unicorns farting glitter. The world and human nature is a little more complex.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 2:18 utc | 76

@ Posted by: Grieved | Jun 23 2021 1:47 utc | 70

There's no evidence Yeltsin had a change of heart (no pun intended) at the end of his reign. There's also no evidence whatsoever that he had any notion of what Putin would become - when he chose him as his successor in his deathbed, he clearly intended for Putin to be a direct continuation of his policies. Yeltsin's goodbye letter was written in English and published in the NYT, and you can find it on their website (the archives); in it, he merely mentions Putin as a good boy, heavily implying he would be just another very pliable/friendly president for the USG (i.e. a second Yeltsin).

Most despots think they're nominating a carbon copy/direct continuation of their reign, Yeltsin's rationale is nothing exceptional in this sense. But I don't have the Russian sources, maybe some secret documents declassified (or still classified) exist in Russia that disprove this take. Maybe this was indeed Putin's original intention, but, you know History: sometimes, decades happen in a couple of years, and that's what happened right out of the bat, during Putin's first mandate.

What did happen - and this is well documented and a consensus among historians who are experts on the subject - is that there were two big factions in the newly-born Russian capitalist class, and they clashed against each other during Yeltsin's two terms. The first faction was composed mainly of the liberal economists from St. Petersburg (Chubais, Gaidar etc.), the bankers and the oligarchs from the "light industry" sector (services, non-durable goods etc. etc.). The second one was the capitalists who controlled the heavy industries and the commodities industries (gas, petroleum etc. etc.). The first faction dominated Yeltsin's first mandate, and the second faction dominated his second mandate. The counter-attack of the second faction apparently put it into power until the present day, because Putin's government since 2002 has been essentially geared towards the sectors represented by them.

Yeltsin, being a rabid neoliberal and a sell-off, wasn't a Third-Worldist: it never crossed his mind Russia would descend to the status of a Brazil or an India (i.e. essentially a protectorate of the USA). He didn't see his unconditional surrender to Bill Clinton was a surrender of Russia to the USA (even though that was what really was). Whatever the case, Russia still had strength to get out of the American grip, because, as soon as the heavy industry/commodity sector oligarchs pressured him, he nonchalantly gave in, apparently not interpreting it as the beginning of the end of neoliberalism in Russia. The rise of Chernomyrdin apparently happened with no more conflict than a normal inner political struggle inside the high circle of the Yeltsin cabinet (i.e. it happened essentially peacefully), and there was not so much outcry in the West at the time.

Besides, the artificers of the end of the USSR clearly never intended for the Soviet wealth to be in Western hands: from the very beginning, the IMF-instructed privatizations were skewed so that only Russians could own them. The IMF eventually protested against the Russian monopoly over the privatizations and demanded open, free auctions for the privatizations (i.e. privatization to American capital). But these were simply ignored, and the IMF could only watch, powerless, while the Russian "Nomenklatura" divided Soviet wealth among themselves. This process was sui generis because it didn't happen anywhere else: in all other countries from the Warsaw Pact and the ex-USSR, privatization went almost entirely to American and European capitalists: there is no Czech or Slovak oligarchy; there's no Polish oligarchy; there's no Croatian or Slovenian oligarchy - they're all either German or American.

Ownership of non-Russian Eastern European means of production is an essential feature that enables European and American domination over the region.

The explanation for this Russian singularity may come from its sheer size and solid cultural and historical unity: it may be the case that the transformation of Russia into a Western colony simply never crossed the minds even of the most hallucinated neoliberal ideologue from St. Petersburg. The same phenomenon may explain why it never crossed Chiang Kaishek's mind to ever accept the partition of China by the Western powers in order to save his neofeudal dictatorship, or his bizarre insistence - against all Western will and patience, in the heat of WWII, when Japan appeared to be well on pace to conquer all of China - for China to get a seat in the UN's Security Council. Sometimes something is simply greater than yourself, transcend your tiny and limited imagination; in Russia's case, it would not be surprising for their liberal intellectuals to still have deep ingrained in their minds the typical reactionary habits and impulses of Tsarist Russia (religiosity, Orthodox Christianity, conservatism etc. etc.), so they only wanted some aspects of liberalism and not others.

During the first years of Putin's government, it really appeared he would follow Yeltsism to the letter. But then, after 2002, a series of American aggressive acts against Russia's sovereignty started, and Putin - also not accepting Third-Worldism (Peripheral Realism) - begun to adopt a series of logical steps which resulted in Russia (once more) to reproach with China and, according to some, even coming up with some kind of synthesis between Russian capitalism (Orthodox Christianity adapted to neoliberalism) and some form of Neo-Sovietism (importance of the State, the communal sense of the person).

History never advances constantly and linearly. Sometimes, the most conservative/continuist decision can lead to the most radical outcomes. I think that was the case with Yeltsin, who may well have thought he was the man of the End of History in Russia.

Posted by: vk | Jun 23 2021 2:27 utc | 77

Peter AU

War Criminals Welcome
Mark Aarons has written extensively about Lyenko Urbanchich's life and political career, see his 2001 book War Criminals Welcome. The west laundered these nazi criminals background, made them presentable, enabled their passage from refugees of war torn europe to political activists and even leaders in political organisations in Australia. They were fostered to continue their fascist ideology.

Mark Aarons wrote an obituary for Urbanchich:-

Urbanchich's emergence as a key organiser of fascist groups changed the methods of infiltration and became the touchstone of the far-right's success in the NSW Liberal Party. By 1964, Urbanchich was president of the Liberal Party's Kings Cross branch, and ran the 50 Club in Darlinghurst, where central and eastern European fascists mixed with Australian rightists. Using his extensive emigre connections, over two decades he stacked Liberal branches in Sydney's inner-western, eastern, outer-north-western and south-western suburbs, and even Newcastle.

I will delve deeper and write more anon.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 23 2021 2:33 utc | 78

Also the Soviet Unions first Atomic bomb. Until then, the Soviet Union was under the very real threat of being attacked and destroyed by nuclear weapons. Churchill was pushing for this as were many American. With industrial infrastructure and production unaffected by war, it still took the Manhattan project four years to produce the first atomic bomb. A huge amount of infrastructure had to be built to create that bomb. The soviet Union under Stalin, amongst the destruction of recent war, detonated its first bomb 4 years after the US used theirs and the threat of nuclear annihilation passed.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 2:35 utc | 79

@76 vk

That was fascinating, thank you.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 23 2021 2:40 utc | 80

uncle tungsten

When Abbott was leader of the facist branch of the liberal party, the branch that is in power today, he had one of his ministers attend a croation get together as his rep there that celebrated the nazi 'liberation and Independence' of Croatia. The slime bag attending said it was a mistake and he didn't know it celebrated the nazi takeover.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 2:44 utc | 81

Grieved 70

I have also thought that the backing by security forces loyal to their country was essential for Putin to do what he has been able to achieve. Putin is a stickler for doing everything according to law. In looking at Yeltsin and they way he was going through prime ministers that he was actively looking for somebody that could could lead Russia out of the quagmire as he by then realized he could not do it.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 2:51 utc | 82

Sanctions work on several levels. Economically they strangle a country, but if one has enough friends outside the system, survival is possible.

As Donbsss @55 pointed out, they also carry a sense of presumed moral authority.

Finally, they serve as an object lesson to others who might think they can move out from under the faltering empire.

This is Biden herding the EU cats that were getting ideas of gaining back some level of Sovereignty

Likewise the cyber raids on Iranian and Houthi media

Posted by: les7 | Jun 23 2021 2:59 utc | 83

VK 76

Patrick Armstrong has a piece on his website titled 'Yes Putin once dreamed the American dream' You may have already read it but if not it is well worth the read.
https://patrickarmstrong.ca/2018/06/20/yes-putin-once-dreamed-the-american-dream/
Under Yeltsin and also the early years of Putin, Russians thought it was soviet ideology that separated them from the west and with that gone, they would be treated as an equal. Easy enough for us to say in hindsight that was very naive of the Russians but it was what it was.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 3:10 utc | 84

Belarusian Revolution Launched

Belarusian Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya speaking to the media today declared “Belarusian Revolution,” and announced they’re building underground groups for regime change. She asked for more sanctions to free political prisoners and get a new election. Her group is working towards a nationwide strike.

It will be interesting to see how Belarus and Russia responds. Another regime change on Russia’s borders.

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 3:15 utc | 85

Peter AU1 #80

Thank you. Here is some more clarity on the evil Morrison PM. Seems that AErchie's Archive - Digital Detritus is worth a visit occasionally.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 23 2021 3:26 utc | 86

Interesting discussion here on why Yeltsin resigned allowing Putin to take over. I think many of the comments are too kind with respect to Yeltsin's motives.

A story I heard is that Yeltsin was forced out and in exchange for resigning quietly (as opposed to being forcibly removed) he was promised that he and his daughter would be spared prosecution for corruption. I think this is something the late Stephen Cohen believed (I heard him mention this in one of his appearances on the John Batchelor show but have never seen anything in writing. Cohen was also extremely vague about any details).

Another story I heard (which came from Bill Clinton) is shortly before Yeltsin's death Boris confided to Bill that he made a terrible error in turning over power to Putin. Do not have links on this story either.

In any case, I have more or less accepted that Yeltsin was deposed in a soft coup. I can see why Stephen Cohen would never come out and provided proof (if he had it) since such a story would be used to delegitimize putin's legacy.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 23 2021 3:33 utc | 87

Down South @ 3

"All these sanctions are going to do is push Belarus
and Russia into an ever closer union."

Pau @ 26, Potash you say?<= i think its
everything Belarus owns.

Christian J. Chuba @ 9 [We still get steamed about the 'Arab oil embargo of 73' and they just decided not to sell us their oil, those were not extra-territorial sanctions (our specialty). We in the U.S. call ourselves
great and have a remarkable lack of empathy]


<= MSM propaganda convinced the western governed people
that the refined oil embargo [197Xs] was Arab doings, but
instead the embargo was private oil company doings, with
purpose to raise and fix oil and gas prices.

Peter AU1 @ 72 Why did you not list the 27
to 32 million Christian Russians eliminated by the
Bolshevick revolution?

vk @ 10 Maxist Social governments are sanction targets of
ownership opportunity competing[ooc] capitalism because class
struggle upends OOC Capitalsm. <=not sure about that..
properly regulated capitalism is compatible with labor..
the labor laws beginning 1895 to 1940 attest to that..

Down South @ 3 says sanctions increase hate between the Eastern
governed people and the Western Governed people. <= i say
that is the intended result.

Canadian Cents says pressing "the hurt of economic sanctions
seeks to deny a governed people their right to self determination.
<= While true, sanctions in Belarus are not about the government, its
about ownership and control of all economic resources in the world of
which Belarus is just one small part.

Weaver @ 15 the US is not capitalist <=I agree.. its economy
is a privately controlled use of government to privatize, posses and
control all monopoly powers in the world. Neither socialism nor
Capitalism describe the system.

Piotr Berman @ 22 exception to weaver does not comport with reality.

Bruised Northerner @ 4 0 <=right on, thanks for the links.

Rutherford 82 "Sanctioning people and groups in this
way is similar to how gangs operate domestically in the US."
<=The goal of the global privatizers is to own and control everything..
they have the fire power of many nations states at their disposal.

Max @ 16 the target is the Non-$ Block <= true as far as it
goes, but the real game is to privatize, acquire, own or control
everything including the government and its governed peoples
around the entire world. Perpetrators are not government, they are
private parties, using government to accomplish their privatize,
own and control objectives. and @ 30 I agree democrat vs republican
divide and conquer works well.

Karlof1 @ 37 Lincoln said " Don't interfere with anything in
the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only
safeguard of our liberties." He was killed shortly after that.

Karlof1 @ 57 <=but i don't think it is Nazism its broader than
that, its global and comprehensive; these western bandits want
to own, control and be the unilateral beneficiary s of everything
(BIT, all business, all industry and all technology). More
over they are not part of the government, they just use the
government to do their thing. Copyright, patent and government
contracts, paid for from the wealth taxes extracted from those who are the governed, is the name of their game.

Comes out Google, NIH, and USAID have been funding Daszak's
research into viruses since 2010 (if not earler). <=can you
give a source for that..?

lysias @ 47 <=Privatization, complete ownership and
total control by those Oligarchs and their corporations
who own and control the governments,


Posted by: snake | Jun 23 2021 3:37 utc | 88

Some more nifty quotes:

"The true equation is 'democracy' = government by world financiers...The main mark of modern governments is that we do not know who governs, de facto any more than de jure. We see the politician and not his backer; still less the backer of the backer; or what is most important of all, the banker of the backer. Enthroned above all, in a manner without parallel in all past, is the veiled prophet of finance, swaying all men living by a sort of magic, and delivering oracles in a language not understanded [sic] of the people."
--- J.R.R. Tolkien, Candour Magazine, 13 July 1956, p. 12

"The few who understand the system ... will either be so interested in its profits or so dependent on its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand the great body of people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantages that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint and perhaps even without suspecting that the system is inimical to them."
--- Letter send On June 25th, 1863, by the Rothschild Brothers to Messrs Ikleheimer, Morton and Vandergould at No. 3 Wall Street, New York.

"In the task of that redemption the most effective agents will be men who have substituted some new illusions for the abandoned ones. The most important of these illusions is that the collective life of mankind can achieve perfect justice. It is a very valuable illusion for the moment; for justice cannot be approximated if the hope of its perfect realization does not generate a sublime madness in the soul. Nothing but such madness will do battle with malignant power and "spiritual wickedness in high places." The illusion is dangerous because it encourages terrible fanaticisms. It must therefore be brought under the control of reason. One can only hope that reason will not destroy it before its work is done."
--- Moral Man and Immoral Society: A Study in Ethics and Politics by Reinhold Niebuhr

Posted by: blues | Jun 23 2021 3:38 utc | 89

@PeterAU1, grieved, vk RE Putin/Yeltsin

My general impression of what happened agrees with Peter's characterization, from various readings, and what I notice is that Putin is careful to show his respects. That may be theater, and Putin is a forgiving soul, but I think he is sincere.

I suspect Putin was picked because he was honest and seemed competent, got things done.

He does seem to have undergone a considerable evolution, and with some reluctance.

---

Regarding escalations we are seeing around the borders of Russia, and new assertiveness from Russia & China, I think we seeing the implementation of new "rules of engagement" as worked out in Biden-Putin and perhaps other meetings. Furious hybrid warfare, but with certain things off-limits.

For the bar's consideration.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 23 2021 3:42 utc | 90

@ Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 23 2021 3:33 utc | 86

Yes, the corruption story is true. Putin kept his promise and either put a bill to vote exempting ex-presidents from prosecution or he simply buried the case, don't remember which he did. That may well have been the sole reason he chose Putin as his successor, and, more importantly, why he resigned instead of wait the next elections (by resigned, he guaranteed he wouldn't be prosecuted, because Putin assumed right away; it was a very clever maneuver on his part).

For sure Yeltsin only resigned because he was forced to, not because he wanted to. His popularity was at unsustainable levels after Russia's financial meltdown in 1998, plus he was already dying (he was an alcoholic who had just one or two heart attacks/surgeries) and then came the corruption cases. Yeltsin was far from being an intellectual: he was just a mediocre politician who was in the right place, in the right time. In a way, he's a symptom of the degeneration of the CPSU, as he would've never got to where he was when the USSR fell if it wasn't for the CPSU's own method of selection.

Posted by: vk | Jun 23 2021 3:45 utc | 91

@76 vk Yeltsin and Putin

¡Fascinating! Thank you.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jun 23 2021 3:56 utc | 92

ToivoS #86

In any case, I have more or less accepted that Yeltsin was deposed in a soft coup. I can see why Stephen Cohen would never come out and provided proof (if he had it) since such a story would be used to delegitimize putin's legacy.

Yeltsin was an incompetent alcoholic, surrounded by some rather unpleasant advisers and was assisted to relinquish his stressful working conditions.

Yeltsin elevated Putin so as to continue with his preferred life choice ;))

There is no chance of Yeltsin's resignation delegitimising Putin's presidency as successive elections have confirmed Russia's legitimising of that presidency.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 23 2021 3:59 utc | 93

@ Bemildred | Jun 23 2021 3:42 utc | 89 who wrote
"
Regarding escalations we are seeing around the borders of Russia, and new assertiveness from Russia & China, I think we seeing the implementation of new "rules of engagement" as worked out in Biden-Putin and perhaps other meetings. Furious hybrid warfare, but with certain things off-limits.

For the bar's consideration.
"
What is hybrid and what is off-limits?

Is more bio-chemical warfare off limits?

How about cyber warfare? I posit that cyber is part of hybrid warfare but not covered in "rules of engagement".

Hybrid includes financial warfare that we are not seeing clearly....yet. It is hard for me not to believe that some sort of financial battle is coming that will be very hybrid.

Another view of hybrid warfare is that empire is the dog barking and the China/Russia axis is the caravan that is moving on....and I think this is a very powerful dynamic of the situation that will precipitate the straw that breaks the camels back in this hybrid/civilization war we are watching come to some climax it seems.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2021 4:27 utc | 94

The crazies in Washington I think have now twigged to the fact that they cannot run or hide from Russia's new strategic weapons. That in fact Russia may be approaching first strike capability that Putin has not only restored MAD as far as the US side is gone, but in fact may be able to survive a nuclear war against the US. If this is the case, then the threat of the crazies loosing off nukes as they go down may have passed. They will probably set up nukes here in oz to threaten China, but threat is as far as it will go. Russia if they have not already done so will inform the US as they did with Trump and Iran, that China is an ally and as such a nuclear attack on China will be considered a nuclear attack on Russia. All else though, I think is still very much in play, but China and Russia jointly and publicly declared that they will actively counter all US colour revolutions when other countries are targeted. With luck, Russia and China will be able to gently take the US down without it destroying the world as it goes down.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 4:59 utc | 95

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2021 4:27 utc | 93

RE Hybrid War

We don't really know what the new rules are, they aren't going to tell us, and we (USA) might not be willing or able to keep our word, so we'll have to see. I just trying to make sense of the mixed messages coming from the government. It could also be that various parts of the gov't don't feel like cooperating. Nothing new about that. On the other hand I note a new more assertive tone from Russia & China, and the Russians seemed quite satisfied with the Putin-Biden meeting, and are more assertive PR-wise. Putin has been making a strong pitch. So somethng happened.

Thank you for your views.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 23 2021 5:09 utc | 96

snake

The soviet people themselves denounced stalin after his death. He held power largely through fear moved entire populations to prevent organised resistance. He was paranoid and ruthless. He twice saved Russia and the soviet union from annihilation....
I look at China and the cultural revolution, the great leap forward, Iran and the religious leadership, what these countries were and the conditions for the people before those revolutions.
The very sad thing is that it often takes religious or ideological fanatics that are ruthless to create a successful revolution - successful in that it last for a reasonable length of time without being defeated by other powers, both from within and outside their countries. Stalin is a great object of hate by many and it is difficult to tell what figures are reliable statistics. Like China's great leap forward, many soviets died in famine caused by nationalization of and politically managed ideologically correct agriculture. Two disastrous experiments by ideologues.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 5:14 utc | 97

Snake
What Germany was going through post WWI produced Hitler. The turbulence of the Russian revolution coughed up Stalin. The poverty of the nineties produced Putin.
Russia, the land of Rasputins, Stalins And Putins. A strange land indeed.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 5:22 utc | 98

VK @76
Did Yeltsin not accept the partition of the Soviet Union, thus creating many of the problems we see today? Belarus, Ukraine and many others were all part of the Soviet Union.

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Jun 23 2021 5:28 utc | 99

@94 Peter Au1 - @95 Bemildred (also @ 76 vk)

Great points.

Yes, I get this thought too, that MAD is not only reestablished but surpassed with first strike dominance. The goal that both Russia and China could survive a nuclear exchange, in which the US would be completely destroyed, is the prize beyond all prizes - an obvious ambition that changes the balance of power irrevocably in the world.

Surely Russia and China both must be dissatisfied with MAD? Surely they must want to intercept practically anything and everything the US can throw at them, and silence the existence of the US in that single parrying strike?

I gather that they are not at this point yet, and largely from the great kicker of submarines. But surely this must form their horizon, and one fairly close at that?

~~

Also comes Bemildred to note that something seems to have changed, drawing from the indications of the summit, and maybe they have. Actually, what does it mean - if anything - that Gerasimov was not equaled from the US side at the summit? Has the warfare equation changed? Some things are not quite clear yet.

~~

And too, with Yeltsin and Putin - vk's description of a tension between forces within the Russian state. Could this still be happening? If there is a long drawn-out struggle that is not "resolved" in the Hollywood sense, but that simply continues in the way people do over the years and through the generations and the successors and assigns, then this would explain a lot about the way that Putin on the one hand seems totally in control and yet on the other hand seems less than totally in control in some ways.

I believe that the Yeltsin handover was more than simply his choice alone. I view it as the act of Russia safeguarding itself, and I applaud this unreservedly. And also, I wonder at the tensions within that civilization that still hold power.

Perhaps the case is that the security state has shown that it will play the final card if it has to - or in fact, whenever it has to - but that otherwise it will allow the fratricidal struggles to work themselves out silently and largely unmolested, even as the nation evolves into whatever the future holds for it.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 23 2021 5:56 utc | 100

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