Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 5, 2021
UFO Reports Are Fertilizer For Military Budgets

Since December 2019 the United States has a Space Force as one of eight branches of U.S. Armed Forces. Each of those branches has lots of higher ranking officer positions. All people who are put into those want a lucrative board seat at some weapon manufacturer when they retire. They will only get one if they manage to create enough revenue for those manufacturers while they are still in uniform.

The new command therefore needs new weapons. Otherwise there will be no revenue for the weapon manufacturers and no lucrative board seats for retired officers. But spending tax dollars on weapons requires at least some nominal justification. There needs to be a threat that requires new weapons to counter it.

Thus we are presented with an onslaught of UFO rumors and silly grainy videos:

The idea of UFOs has gone mainstream. The dam broke with a New York Times story about a year ago on three declassified Navy videos. Last weekend, 60 Minutes did its own report, and The New Yorker has a nice long writeup of the history of the debate within the American government.

The sightings involve objects that seem to defy the laws of physics.

It’s the “physics-defying” aspects of UFOs that imply an advanced alien civilization. Although some suggest that Chinese or Russian drones could be behind what people are seeing, the idea of those nations being that far ahead of the United States can probably be dismissed.

From believing in alien UFOs to making laughable stupid claims is just a short step:

Josh Rogin @joshrogin – 2:23 PM · Jun 4, 2021

There are two theories about the UFO’s. One is they are from another planet, one is that they are from another dimension. In other words, it could be humans from the future, not an alien species.

This reply is fitting:

Cheryl Rofer @CherylRofer – 3:24 PM · Jun 4, 2021

Today's lesson from Logic 101.

If you have no explanation for an observation, it does not mean that any explanation is a good one.

It does not follow that

We can't explain some observations, so they must be aliens/ a directed-energy weapon/ a lab leak.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There is none for either of Rogin's theories.

Many of the reports about Unknown Flying Object aren't even about flying objects but are based on natural light phenomenons, dirty lenses or long fingers which randomly create fuzzy blobs.


by XKCDbigger

This is simple. UFO's aren't real:

Mick West has spent years debunking chemtrails, UFOs, and other conspiracies. This interview of him (vid), brought to my attention on Twitter, seems to conclusively show that the Navy videos can be explained with some basic trigonometry and an understanding of how cameras work.

He’s even replicated some of the camera tricks to recreate images that resemble what we can see on the Navy videos. If you’re interested in the topic, I highly recommend watching the interview. Here’s a shorter video for those who want the basic idea.

As West points out in the first video above, there is nothing new about the latest UFO releases. All that has changed is that now the government has released its own footage, which is basically the same kind of evidence that he and other skeptics have debunked in the past, just with better resolution. But because the government now tells them it’s ok to believe something, people take that as a sign of credibility.

What’s depressing about this, as someone who writes about foreign policy, is that the national security bureaucracy is apparently still considered credible.

So credible, we are told, that even obvious nonsense about extraterrestrial origin of UFOs must be taken somewhat seriously.

Caitlin Johnstone points that if there were extraterrestrials (there aren't) the military should be kept as far away from them as possible:

One of the disconcerting things I’ve been seeing again and again from all the major players in this new narrative like Lue Elizondo and Christopher Mellon is the absurd assertion that not only is it entirely possible that the unknown phenomena allegedly being regularly witnessed by military personnel are extraterrestrial in origin, but that if they are extraterrestrial they may want to hurt us.

I’ve sat through so much video footage on this subject, and I just get so frustrated listening to all these military-minded men talking about the need to know what the “capabilities” of these things are and how to prevent them from posing a threat to “national security”. If we are in fact not alone in this universe and are in fact being visited by other civilizations, these are the absolute stupidest questions we could possibly be asking ourselves about them. Not how can we contact them, not is it possible to communicate with them, not what could we learn from them, not where are they from and what is their story, but how can we kill them if we need to.

I have no idea if we are being visited by ETs, but if we are the US military is literally the worst thing our species could possibly use to relate to them.

Despite all the UFO hype it will be difficult to explain to the public that the military needs more money to fight extraterrestrials which do not exist.

Thus, just in time, the campaign gets redirected. Now it must be the 'real enemies' who have caused the dirty lenses phenomenons. Caitlin in another piece:

The New York Times has published an article on the contents of the hotly anticipated US government report on UFOs, as per usual based on statements of anonymous officials, and as per usual promoting narratives that are convenient for imperialists and war profiteers.

Together with one voice, the anonymous US officials and the "paper of record" which is supposed to scrutinize US officials assure us definitively that the mysterious aerial phenomena that have reportedly been witnessed by military personnel are certainly not any kind of secret US technology, but could totally be aliens and could definitely be a sign that the Russians or Chinese have severely lapped America's lagging military development.

Oh well if the US government has ruled out secret US government weaponry programs, hot damn that's good enough for me. Great journalism you guys.

"Intelligence officials believe at least some of the aerial phenomena could have been experimental technology from a rival power, most likely Russia or China," the Times reports. "One senior official briefed on the intelligence said without hesitation that U.S. officials knew it was not American technology. He said there was worry among intelligence and military officials that China or Russia could be experimenting with hypersonic technology."

None of the UFO sightings discussed recently is consistent with anything hypersonic.

Russia and China have developed hypersonic missiles to overcome U.S. missile defenses in a return strike after a U.S. first strike nuclear attack. They keep the concept of Mutual Assured Destruction alive even after the U.S. designed and deployed missile defenses to destroy it.

Hypersonic is defined as flying faster than Mach 5. It is one of those fields in which the U.S. military makes a joke of itself:

Steve Trimble @TheDEWLine – 7:46 PM · Jun 2, 2021

Speaking at live CSIS webcast, DOD hypersonic director Mike White says today that US hypersonic weapons now in development can hit targets 500 miles away in 10 minutes.

If you do the calculation, that equates to an average speed of Mach 4 over the 10 minute period.

Mach 4 ain't above Mach 5.

On the other side of things the U.S. military defines about anything as a 'threat'. From a recent Wall Street Journal piece about Russia's northern coastline:

The [Russian] military has renovated other airfields across Russia’s northern coast and deployed S-400 air defense systems and state-of-the-art radar to complicate potential advances from North Atlantic Treaty Organization countries.

The U.S. has recalculated its own Arctic strategy, pushing plans to put more fifth-generation fighters in Alaska than anywhere else in the country, in an effort to overwhelm the threat from Russia’s antiaircraft defenses.

Russia's antiaircraft defenses are as much a "threat" to the U.S. as UFO's are.

It is all propaganda. The U.S. military-industrial-media complex is creating a new cold war to justify spending for weapons that are not needed. As Caitlin concludes:

I have no idea what if anything is going on with these UFO phenomena, but I do know the world-threatening new cold war the US is waging against Russia and China is insane. There is no valid reason our planet's dominant power structures cannot at the very least cease brandishing armageddon weapons at each other and begin collaborating toward a better world together.

Reject the propagandists and cold warriors, no matter how elaborate or bizarre their manipulations become. Keep an eye on these bastards, and help spread awareness of what they're about.

Comments

psychohistorian #3
If we are the most intelligent species in the universe then let’s just retire quietly and forget the space exploration business.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 6 2021 9:44 utc | 101

I am agnostic about these phenomena. The Dogong people definitely aren’t and tell a fascinating tale. Robert Temple wrote a great book about the Dogong society called the Sirius Mystery. It is surely worth reading.
If they are peeking and reading this blog could they do earthlings a favour and annihilate the 1 percent.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 6 2021 9:54 utc | 102

The greatest mystery about UFO’s is probably the fact that with everyone armed with high quality cameras and no one has ever been able to get a picture of a UFO or one of those robots with antennas walking out or a saucer. And the mystery deepens when you remember that in 1980’s and 1990’s with low resolution cameras there were so many low quality UFO pictures coming out daily. LOL.
There were some women in our town (all unmarried) who would claim they had seen UFO’s. When I think back of those women, they were all sensationalist attention seeking women.

Posted by: Armo | Jun 6 2021 10:04 utc | 103

UFO Reports Are Fertilizer For Military Budgets
…and psychosexual fodder for the hoi polloi. After all that torque and thrust of liftoff we get the dreamy, fuzzy photos of distant auras, some mental derangement, and in the case of all those nebulous eruptions down below, even closure, assurance that man is still ‘on top.’

Posted by: john | Jun 6 2021 10:20 utc | 104

Fermi Paradox has some problems. First and foremost it was developed in the 1950s when massively powerful broadcast transmission stations were proliferating around the world. Huge amounts of easily recognizable EM radiation poured out of the planet and into space. For any advanced alien civilization looking this would stand out like a bright beacon. Fermi’s problem was in assuming every advanced civilization would also shine like a beacon in the EM spectrum. Back then it seemed like powerful broadcast radio transmitters were practically synonymous with advanced civilization. It was the Golden Age of Radio, after all, and it was natural for people of the time to assume that advanced civilizations would be like America of the period but even more powerful and “loud” across the EM spectrum.
More than disproving the notion that other parts of the galaxy have given rise to advanced civilizations, the Fermi Paradox demonstrates that even really smart people can be victims of the delusion of American Exceptionalism. If one is to look at the EM radiation that is leaking from Earth these days one can easily see that the number and power levels of terrestrial broadcast transmitters have declined significantly. Far more of humanity’s communications today are handled by cables and fiber optics, and by low power but high frequency short range radio cells. The nature of the signals are vastly different today as well, with huge numbers of different data streams multiplexed together in the same radio bands. At planetary distances, much moreso interstellar ones, the output of billions of milliwatt transmitters just devolves to white noise.
Basically, if aliens wanted to find human civilization by scanning the skies for identifiable EM broadcasts they would have had a very brief window to do so. Late 1940s to shortly after the turn of the century. There remains remnants of the Golden Age of Radio, but not much and those remnants fade more each passing year. The brilliant outpouring of identifiable radio signals from humanity was not a permanent feature of advanced civilization but, in the cosmic scheme of things, just a flashbulb firing once and going quiet as better and more efficient means of communications developed. If the aliens were looking the other way for a few years they would miss it.
The next big problem with the Fermi Paradox is the assumption that advanced civilizations that have expanded beyond the planet they first evolved on would settle other planets. This actually makes no sense at all and reflects the natural biases of people who are born, lived, and die on a planet with no alternatives available. Once a civilization becomes truly interplanetary, though, that civilization will obviously take up residence in artificial structures off of planetary surfaces. Quite likely they will treat planetary biospheres more like park lands rather than places to permanently homestead. Cities and homes are artificial structures anyway, and if a spacefaring civilization is going to build them why bother doing so at the bottom of deep gravity wells where they are costly to get to and away from? The assumption that advanced spacefaring civilizations would want to colonize planetary surfaces is another example of projecting the biases of the planet-bound.
Advanced spacefaring civilizations would thus exist in various orbital habitats, from which even less EM radiation is wastefully leaked. Why shout at the tops of your lungs when a whisper is all that is needed? In other words, advance spacefaring civilizations will not be very “loud”. They will not be easy to spot from many light years away. The most easily detectable traces would be emissions from the propulsion systems of their spacecraft and from large-scale industrial processes, not from their communications.
In retrospect Fermi made a lot of assumptions that didn’t stand up well to the passage of time. Kinda like assuming that cars would always have big fins on the back.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 6 2021 10:25 utc | 105

Pretty amazing that nobody has yet managed to conjure up the spirit of Wernher von Braun (or at least the channeling of it by Carol Rosin

The strategy that Wernher Von Braun taught me was that first the Russians are going to be considered to be the enemy. In fact, in 1974, they were the enemy, the identified enemy. We were told that they Russians had “killer satellites.” We were told that they were “coming to get us” and control us – that they were “Commies.”
Then, after the Russian threat passed (with the “fall of Communism”), terrorists would be identified as the next threat, and that was soon to follow. Throughout the media for the next decade, we heard a lot about terrorism. Then we were going to identify third-world country “crazies.” We now call them Nations of Concern. But he said that would be the third enemy against whom we would build space-based weapons.
The next enemy was asteroids. Now, at this point he kind of chuckled the first time he said it. Asteroids- against asteroids we are going to build space-based weapons. And the funniest one of all was what he called aliens, extraterrestrials. That would be the final scare. And over and over and over during the four years that I knew him and was giving speeches for him, he would bring up that last card. “And remember Carol, the last card is the alien card. We are going to have to build space-based weapons against aliens and all of it is a lie.”

Posted by: Lurk | Jun 6 2021 10:27 utc | 106

The one time I saw a flying saucer it was grey and grainy and somewhat out of focus. I think that is just the way UFOs normally look and that pictures of them are actually crystal clear and perfectly focused.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 6 2021 10:30 utc | 107

@Paul | Jun 5 2021 23:39 utc | 51
I cannot listen to Space Oddity and not notice that it is all an ode to LSD.
The quality of Bowie’s efforts markedly degraded after he switched his preferences to different substances, such as the ‘stardust’ nose medicine.

Posted by: Lurk | Jun 6 2021 10:36 utc | 108

Paul Cockshott | Jun 5 2021 21:26 utc | 34
Of Open Polemic, that was?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 6 2021 11:53 utc | 109

Mr. One Too Many | Jun 6 2021 4:04 utc | 87
The late Krishamurthi was most popular in the United States, he made no impression in Catholic countries.

Posted by: Fyi | Jun 6 2021 12:32 utc | 110

At least someone upstream mentioned Sun Ra…one of the more accomplished space travellers out there. I mean, having been to Saturn and back, and all. Though he’s passed to another dimension, and the Vulcan mind meld being just tv fiction anyway, the evidence is codified in his remarkable music(listen carefully), some of which I linked to in a previous attempt to post, but which went somewhere else, to another kind of extension in time. Lost in space.

Posted by: john | Jun 6 2021 12:32 utc | 111

Mr. One Too Many | Jun 6 2021 4:04 utc | 87
The drive requires the creation and maintenance of regions of space with negative energy density; currently an impossibility.

Posted by: Fyi | Jun 6 2021 12:36 utc | 112

Mr.m | Jun 6 2021 4:03 utc | 86
The late Krishamurthi was most popular in the United States, he made no impression in Catholic countries.
Americans pine for contact with aliens from outer space, itself an expression of their techo-fetish, while bombing and otherwise try to destroy aliens on Earth for the last 70 years.
Americans have deep psychological problems.

Posted by: Fyi | Jun 6 2021 12:41 utc | 113

Mr. William Gruff | Jun 6 2021 10:25 utc | 105
My sincere hope is that advanced space-faring civilizations will not find us, lest, like USA, they begin bombing us because we do not conform to the way the universe ought to be.

Posted by: Fyi | Jun 6 2021 12:44 utc | 114

Posted by: Norwegian @14
Wonderful display of cognitive dissonance. To claim without evidence that “there is something wrong with your brain” when someone says something that challenges your world view looks like projection to me. It is perhaps an expression of the post truth world.
Your laughable insistance that this disease is a hoax is a testament to you stupidity which is only surpassed by your incredible insensitivity to the people on this site who have lost loved ones to covid, including myself.
You often comment on ‘threatening world views’. (your favourite retort) but your unfounded pathalogical insistance says much about you and your world view.
I hope you find out what it feels like to gasp for air but nothing comes. Watch the look on your brother’s face as he panics. Watch helplessly as he dies for want of air.
If you see a man eating diapers…. assume there is something wrong with his brain without a psychiatrist to verfy.
Fuck Off and Have a Nice Day

Posted by: ld | Jun 6 2021 12:49 utc | 115

William Gruff@105 is shockingly sensible on why the Fermi Paradox isn’t a real thing. Spacetime is big and the movies that pretend an interstellar spaceship is something like a yacht are SF and entirely misleading.
There has been an experiment in artificial ecology, Biosphere 2. The results suggest that every speculation about space habitats being biologically feasible is insanely optimistic, handwaving at its worst. I think if you want the reserves to cope with the unstable ecological changes you need something like a planet. Which asks the question, why try to make an artificial habitat that poorly mimics a planet rather than fix the one you’ve got. I do not think outer space is the garden of the solar system. That strikes me as capitalism in orbit fantasies.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 6 2021 12:51 utc | 116

Mr. Johny Conspiranoid | Jun 6 2021 8:45 utc | 99
Sensible remarks.
There could be other atmospheric phenomena that are currently unknown to science.

Posted by: Fyi | Jun 6 2021 12:51 utc | 117

This subject was mentioned by Michael Horn in 2010:
https://theyflyblog.com/2021/06/ufoology-how-the-us-government-played-you-in-its-quest-for-war-with-russia-part-1/
… and of course, by Billy Meier in 1997 (search page for ” Contact Report 257 Translation: Part 2 ” and read from there onwards):
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_257
… and if anyone happens to be interested in traversing the universe, then the following should be read from line 34 onwards:
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_119
…also some reasons why Earth visiting ET’s will not come into open contact with the mass of humanity:
from line 15 onwards:
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_711
from line 47 onwards:
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_712

Posted by: Stephen Lane | Jun 6 2021 13:25 utc | 118

You’re in luck, haha…my interstellar links just showed up @ 100..

Posted by: john | Jun 6 2021 13:48 utc | 119

Hey Psycho @ 55
I understand, and agree completely, with your “one-note Samba.”
So you’re not completely alone . . .

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 6 2021 14:21 utc | 120

Johny Conspiranoid | Jun 6 2021 8:45 utc | 99

Let me introduce the theory that some of these UFOs are sightings of natural atmospheric electromagnetic phenomena not yet accepted by science, such as ball lightning but with other possible shapes.

The great Soviet Scientist Peter Kapitsa had a machine in his laboratory that made ball-lightning to order. My father saw it working.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 6 2021 14:27 utc | 121

@ld | Jun 6 2021 12:49 utc | 115

Fuck Off and Have a Nice Day

More projection, you may follow your own advice.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 6 2021 14:39 utc | 122

@foolisholdman | Jun 6 2021 14:27 utc | 121

The great Soviet Scientist Peter Kapitsa had a machine in his laboratory that made ball-lightning to order. My father saw it working.

Probably just a Van Der Graaf Generator, no UFO required for that. That’s also one of the greatest bands of all time, by the way.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 6 2021 15:12 utc | 123

Some well timed humor Gruff 🙂

“The one time I saw a flying saucer it was grey and grainy and somewhat out of focus. I think that is just the way UFOs normally look and that pictures of them are actually crystal clear and perfectly focused.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 6 2021 10:30 utc | 107”

Don’t forget to add, oddly tilted, like an Adam Wets Batman episode.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jun 6 2021 15:14 utc | 124

b,
{snark} Apparently you haven’t been watching the show Ancient Aliens. They are in the business of making you believe you are one them — aliens that is.
Repeat after me, Mahabharata, Mahabharata, Mahabharata. {/snark}

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jun 6 2021 15:22 utc | 125

have we figured out how they made the pyramids yet?? i missed it, if so…

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2021 15:26 utc | 126

The biggest real problem that the USSpaceforce will have concerns our new “woke” Graduates. What are they going to do if – when asking which gender pronoun to use – the answer is “egg”, “test tube” or “hive” ?

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 6 2021 15:26 utc | 127

As long as the funds are allocated to the appropriate departments, I’m all in favor of using the threat of extraterrestrials, real or imaginary, to drum up or preferably reallocate military spending. Systems to combat such a threat inevitably have to be of a defensive nature, with significant portions potentially bleeding into the civilian sector and peaceful scientific research; I’m thinking optics and other forms of detection and monitoring equipment. Not excluding the surrealist option of arguing for more bombs, missiles and offensive armaments to combat a foe from another world which you cannot conclusively prove to exist, it’s certainly a less compelling argument in the context of E.T’s than when raising tensions with geopolitical rivals such as Russia, China or Iran.
Ultimately, I’d be more than happy if the US public got hoodwinked into hiding from flying saucers every waking hour of the day, and the US government diverted the entirety of its military spending to catching pesky Martians, since such an effort is less likely to produce weapon systems liable to lead the world into WW3 and would, in essence, serve the role of a camouflaged disarmament program. Perhaps, with the current trends of global influence shifting away from the West, that might be the intended purpose of this campaign?

Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 6 2021 16:07 utc | 128

“About changing your world view….” and cognitive dissonance
In their wisdom, scientists have been trying to find out what we actually see. They have come up with the idea that we only “see” something every two seconds, the brain “fills in” the rest to give continuity. Which seems an awfully long period of time to me, but who am I to argue, as I am not a scientist.
It enables the brain to do complex tasks, by shunting between the “conscient” brain and the automatic (classification) part.
One way in which an ET in a superfast craft could appear to do right angle turns and shift extremely fast, is simply that human brains are still working out what happened within the frame of reference they are accustomend to using. Within two second intervals.
*****
If you still believe scientists are omnipotent after that, then one parameter that is carefully avoided is the reference to “time”. Which according to them is of a “fixed” duration. Normally we refer to anything using “speed”, as a function of the “time” it takes one minor planet to turn on itself (in 24 hours, made up of 60 minutes each, and 60 seconds per minute), circling a mediocre sun (days and years, but not leap years), in one “arm” of one galaxy (lots of years), around billions of galaxies, X and the distance traveled during that period, – counted in metres (the length of a metal bar hidden in some country’s cellar), “Miles” and nautical miles (a decimal part of the arc calculated from a division by 360 of the circumference of the aforementioned planet), “feet” (anybody’s guess, but looking in my shoes at a “size 10 – US, 9.5 – UK, or 44 – EU”, any ET might be excused about becoming as confused as I am), Yards and inches (pouce=thumbs). or Maybe Egyptian; (The Seked which is based on the Ancient Egyptian measures of the Royal Cubit, the palm or hand and the digit. The relationship of these measures is as follows:
1 cubit = 7 palms
1 palm = 4 digits.)
(A cubit is around 25 inches, just to make it clear)
So I hope that all those precise measurements will help our prospective Space force recruits in working out what happened, and how fast the ET was going.
******
PS – You have had the two seconds allowed for your brain to catch up, did it?

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 6 2021 16:12 utc | 129

I have noticed there is a real surge in reporting about aliens,vessels the size of a planet and what not,even from NASA.
I really do not want to turn this thread into a nutter page but I think we should take a close look to the epoch after Operation Paperclip,the founding of CIA,Roswell,Antarctic exploration,and the actings of admiral Richard Byrd all happening in the same years,second half of the forties.It is very muddy in those moving sands and I keep being suspicious.If they want to make us believe we are under threat of aliens,it was conceived in that period of time,probably inspired by the awful thought of global peace threatening arms sales.
An interesting documentary (russian) on youtube that I watched ten years ago,is still there,but its title changed to “The flat earth Russian doco on operation HighJump”.I’m quite sure it did not bear Flat earth in its title then.Anyway,Byrd talked about flying into the NorthPole and coming out in Antarctica,which is impossible in a flat earth,but would point to a hollow earth.The main subject of the documentary is the secret mission of american warships to Antarctica in 1946 where they were under attack from what looked like flying saucers allegedly on the german side.
https://youtu.be/0DSjc1HUjOo

Posted by: willie | Jun 6 2021 16:15 utc | 130

@james | Jun 6 2021 15:26 utc | 126

have we figured out how they made the pyramids yet?? i missed it, if so…

The orthodox Egyptologists under supervision by Zahi Hawass insist they have the answer to that question.
However… the real answer is “no”.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 6 2021 16:22 utc | 131

Question for the physicists: how can we measure the movement of an object in a completely different frame of reference? and can the speed of light constant vary in spacetimes?
There is no proof that something we refer to as “UFO” doesn’t exist (and if its movement turns ‘life’ into ‘goo’, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist either… we turn life into goo all the time without the presence of the pilot 🙂 bad drone joke..)
But how is it likely that our Newtonian eyeballs can see its motion? or our radar? It could exist, could have been there, but we can’t produce the evidence, right?
the main point, that US military spending makes our world go round, is eternal in any case. 🙁

Posted by: k | Jun 6 2021 17:25 utc | 132

I am agnostic about these phenomena. The Dogong people definitely aren’t and tell a fascinating tale. Robert Temple wrote a great book about the Dogong society called the Sirius Mystery. It is surely worth reading.
If they are peeking and reading this blog could they do earthlings a favour and annihilate the 1 percent.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 6 2021 9:54 utc | 102

The binary star knowledge has been debunked ! A french archaelogiste informed them of this fascinating new stellar development because it had been very recently discovered. No mystery there.

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Jun 6 2021 18:20 utc | 133

@james | Jun 6 2021 15:26 utc | 126
have we figured out how they made the pyramids yet?? i missed it, if so…
The orthodox Egyptologists under supervision by Zahi Hawass insist they have the answer to that question.
However… the real answer is “no”.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 6 2021 16:22 utc | 131

Yes. Yes we have.
You pour food and beer into skilled workers & artisans for many years and TA-DAH – a pryramid is born ! Hail Ptah and Pharaoh etc.
It really is quite simple.

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Jun 6 2021 18:52 utc | 134

@ : vk | Jun 5 2021 19:57 utc | 20 Re:
“We’re most likely not alone. The problem is that the chance two forms of life encounter each other is, if not impossible, borderline impossible, as the fastest any species can travel is the close to the speed of causality (c) and, as we know, all the candidate planets we have detected so far are millions of light-years away.”
False, predictably most detected planets (of any type) are actually quite close for a very obvious reason.
https://www.space.com/18790-habitable-exoplanets-catalog-photos.html
@ vk | Jun 5 2021 21:45 utc | 36 Re:
“but let’s assume you can travel at speeds close to the c), you would take 4.37 years to travel from Earth to Alpha Centauri AB. That’s already one hell of a long trip for a human being (you would have to have a spaceship with natural resources large enough to keep a human being for four years and four months.”
You have forgotten to account for time dilation. I appreciate your attempt to back up your arguments with calculations but given that your assumptions regarding distances are false and you make no allowance for time dilation at near light speeds, your arguments simply fall apart.

Posted by: MarkU | Jun 6 2021 18:58 utc | 135

@ Norwegian | Jun 6 2021 16:22 utc | 131
@ Sarlat La Canède | Jun 6 2021 18:52 utc | 134…
thanks… what i was getting at is there are many things we still don’t know about or understand, in spite of our scientific progress.. as i understand it science is about being open to new discoveries too, as opposed to some sort of religious dogma that tells us – this is the way it is… so, i say this with a spirit of keeping an open mind on what we don’t really fully understand or know.. – sarlat – lol… humour is good!

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2021 19:02 utc | 136

@james | Jun 6 2021 19:02 utc | 136

thanks… what i was getting at is there are many things we still don’t know about or understand, in spite of our scientific progress.. as i understand it science is about being open to new discoveries too, as opposed to some sort of religious dogma that tells us – this is the way it is… so, i say this with a spirit of keeping an open mind on what we don’t really fully understand or know..

Indeed, this is true. Of course science is about being open to new discoveries, or else it is pure dogma.
And the question about the pyramids is especially relevant because their origin is a true mystery that is obscured by “scientific” dogma. That does not mean that I claim to know how, when or by whom the pyramids were built. But we can say with certainty that the idea that the dynastic Egyptian Pharaos built them is false, because they did not have the technical means or the time to build them. This was explained much better and in more detail in a video I posted a link to earlier, I recommend it:
The Improbable Timeline of the Old Kingdom Mega-Pyramid Builders

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 6 2021 20:27 utc | 137

Although I may joke about it there is a solid block of evidence about previous sightings and contacts.
What is curious is that the US is showing grainy pictures from years ago as “proof”. There are presumably much more recent and clearer photos and films to be seen. Taken from the various space stations and vessels within the last few years. These have been “blacked out” or “cut off” by NASA from videos etc. At least that is the contention by several people who have been following NASA live feeds (and others).
So why the misdirection?
*****
It is also clear that the “ancients” knew more about geography than could reasonably be expected, from those who couldn’t fly.
******
So, this subterfuge has been going on for a long time. Clearly there is reason to assume that the “new” danger the Miltary want to see, is not a plague, but an invasion that could have happened any time in the last few thousand yearsif it was going to happen at all.
The Pentagon is just trying to cash in on an old subject.
Which still doesn’t clarify WHAT is happening.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 6 2021 20:34 utc | 138

Norwegian | Jun 6 2021 20:27 utc | 137
You will probably appreciate this. I re-found it now (I must have bookmarked it years ago), when I was looking for another bookmark about Hawas and searches in the cave system underneath the Pyramids.
http://www.ancient-wisdom.com/egyptgeodesy.htm
Egyptian Sites with a Geodetic Significance. (half way down)
Note the distances from the sites quoted to the equator are fractions of the circumference of the earth. 1/13, 1/14, 1/15, 1/16.
What a pity that the woke education no longer seems to use fractions. Already a lost art?

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 6 2021 20:49 utc | 139

Aliens would not visit us..if we are so stupid as to announce our presence to aliens we should expect the dark forest strike.
Hiding in the haystack is the only sensible option…not blaring our existence like children..

Posted by: Deimetri | Jun 6 2021 22:06 utc | 140

How were the pyramids built and by whom?
If “no-one knows” then no-one is listening to the people who think they do know.
The Egyptians only needed the same (pre-industrial revolution) skills and technology available to the European builders of Cathedrals and fortresses – rope, pulleys, scaffolding, and cranes made out of tree trunks (timber). If you can build a boat out of wood, there’s nothing you can’t build out of wood.
The great bulk of the stone in pyramids is classified as rubble. Precision-cut stone forms only a small percentage of the total quantity of stone used. And it would take less than a week for people with talent to learn to stack rubble in a stable configuration (filling gaps between big pieces of rubble). Also, if a structure has foundations then it’s safe to assume that the entire structure was planned, from top to bottom, before construction commenced. It follows from that assumption that the designer (you only need 1 genius) was familiar with the factors limiting the weight of the heaviest piece of stone required for its completion.
Even in modern times startlingly innovative bridges were the domain of a single ‘genius’ who passed his knowledge on to his descendants.
But in the end it doesn’t matter how the obstacles to pyramid-building were overcome. They’re there and the people who built them OBVIOUSLY knew what they were doing.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 7 2021 1:48 utc | 141

Supergiant stars like Betelgeuse have very short lifespans. It will not exist long enough for intelligent life to evolve in its planetary system.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 6 2021 1:37 utc | 68
This is only because the life on Earth was remarkably stupid. After first self-organizing molecules creating impact on fossil formation, for about two billion years nothing higher than bacteria existed. Visiting such a planet could be interesting at first, but intelligent life form would find it boring. Imagine the future humanity sending researchers to other star system, and after inspecting, say, few thousands, finding several bacteria infested planets. Further research would be left to drop-out of the education system, not smart enough to earn a buck working for a hedge fund. Eventually, it would be left to automatic probes, so Earth may be periodically visited by probes taking soil samples and sending back reports on bacteria that were identified.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 7 2021 1:54 utc | 142

@140 It’s loneliness that drives us to keep searching. We basically just want to be loved.

Posted by: dh | Jun 7 2021 3:21 utc | 143

Most must realise that ‘UFOs’ have had traction for so long precisely because ALL images of these ‘phenomena’ have been appallingly blurry, fuzzy and affected by all manner of artefacts, as Mick West has so well pointed out and debunked. It’s what defines UFOs. A clear image renders the object identifiable, and in the ~75 years since Roswell none has ever been produced of an identified flying object of a non-terrestrial civilisational origin. But nothing creates more fear and hysteria than something that’s not identifiable. Fear of the unknown is always irrational, and is so effective in cowing a population that might be becoming less manageable.
Of course the current hysteria is all part of yet another ‘threat’ whipped up by the world’s bully-boy thug to increase its predations here on earth. If an actual identified flying object of non-terrestrial civilisation origins were to visit this planet and show its presence, unlike earth’s vicious capitalist rulers the rest of us would implore its pilots: ‘Please help us — Liberate us from our main enemy right here at home!’

Posted by: Stephen Morrell | Jun 7 2021 3:44 utc | 144

Mr. dh | Jun 7 2021 3:21 utc | 143
Yes, the Judeo-Christian American loneliness, driving Americans to find aliens who would love them.
200 years of such an effort with the aliens of this planet, which more often than not has led to war and bloodshed: Japan, Mexico, Spain, Cuba, the Philippines, Viet Nam….
I bomb since I am not loved by those I bomb.

Posted by: Fyi | Jun 7 2021 3:44 utc | 145

@145 Well I was thinking of humanity in general. But if you want to make a race issue out of it so be it. Japan, Spain etc. have had a few wars of their own. The Cham and the Khmer had more than one violent run in.

Posted by: dh | Jun 7 2021 4:08 utc | 146

Could be predictive programming for Project Blue Beam. Look it up..

Posted by: Lozion | Jun 7 2021 5:55 utc | 147

@Stonebird | Jun 6 2021 20:49 utc | 139
Many thanks, I will check out the information in your link! As for fractional numbers, I guess it is mostly a US cultural thing, it is not something we care about over here, we are almost exclusively using SI units and decimals, a good thing in my opinion. But perhaps it was important to those who established those sites in Egypt.
As for Geodetic references, I can add my own anecdote. In July 2019 I visited Angkor Wat in Cambodia at 13°24’45.3″N 103°51’50.8″E. It is a huge and incredibly impressive place. Angkor Wat is surrounded by a giant moat 1km by 1.2km, and this is just a small part of a much larger complex that includes also Angkor Thom, essentially an area the size of a large modern city.
Almost exactly on the opposite side of the world at 13°51’11.5″S 76°20’16.7″W you have the Paracas peninsula in Peru, known for its ancient people with very large and elongated skulls.
In Peru and Bolivia you can in some places find the strange so called “keystone cuts” that are depressions in stone for metal clamps (from an engineering point of view this may be questionable, but anyway, they are there). A friend of mine who is Peruvian sent me pictures of Keystone Cuts from Puma Punku right across the border into Bolivia, you can find similar pictures from Puma Punku at Wikipedia. Curiously enough, I saw very similar Keystone Cuts at Angkor Wat. I suspect the foundation of Angkor Wat is much older than the guides will tell you, and the amount of worked stones there surpasses even the pyramids of Egypt.
Such Keystone Cuts are found around the world, but it seems mostly in a few places of great age and significance, Egypt included.
Ancient metal clamps & keystone cuts

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 6:12 utc | 148

@Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 7 2021 1:48 utc | 141

If “no-one knows” then no-one is listening to the people who think they do know.

Actually, too many are listening to those who say they know, but provide little evidence to support their claims. But this is changing.

The Egyptians only needed the same (pre-industrial revolution) skills and technology available to the European builders of Cathedrals and fortresses – rope, pulleys, scaffolding, and cranes made out of tree trunks (timber). If you can build a boat out of wood, there’s nothing you can’t build out of wood.

No, the Egyptians did not have whet is considered pre-industrial technology. According to conventional Egyptology, the dynastic Egyptians didn’t even have the wheel to help them, and they claim the main tool they had were copper chisels. I recommend trying to cut multi-ton granite blocks with copper chisels and precisely fit them as done in the Giza pyramids.

The great bulk of the stone in pyramids is classified as rubble.

By you? The pyramids of Giza are mainly constructed from millions of limestone blocks weighing 1-2 ton each. In the core you have very precise construction of rooms like the “kings chamber” and the “grand gallery” made from very precise multi-ton granite blocks. Granite is found in Aswan, 1000km to the south of Giza.

Precision-cut stone forms only a small percentage of the total quantity of stone used. And it would take less than a week for people with talent to learn to stack rubble in a stable configuration (filling gaps between big pieces of rubble).

This is a ridiculous statement.

They’re there and the people who built them OBVIOUSLY knew what they were doing.

Of course, who says otherwise? The question is WHEN they were built, who did it, why did they do it and using which technology? There are no hieroglyphs found in the pyramids and no Pharaos have been buried there. I agree with the dynastic Egyptians who themselves say they were a remnant of a much older culture (referred to as Zep Tepe), and those who now say the pyramids were built by a civilization employing a form of advanced technology and living thousands of years earlier than the dynastic Egyptians who came to be 3-4000 years BC. My guess is that the cataclysmic events of the Younger Dryas eradicated world wide civilizations 12900 years ago, in Egypts case probably through a mega tsunami. It then took ~7000 years for civilization to recover, and then the pyramids were already there for the Pharaos to discover.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 6:34 utc | 149

Here we go again. There is plenty of evidence for UFOs being absolutely real but people who have an allergic reaction to anything having to do with UFOs or ETs being here, now, on Earth, will ALWAYS ridicule and cast down anyone who has had *real*, physical experiences with them because it isn’t in their experiential worldview or it goes against their favorite paradigm. Simply claiming that UFOs and ETs *don’t* exist here and now and calling people who have had experiences “believers” is incredibly ignorant. Experiencing a thing does not classify that thing as a “belief”, no matter what someone who has never had a similar experience thinks, in the same way that having seen a 737 flying across the sky or riding on one qualities that individual as a “believer” in 737s.
Tens of thousands (some estimates put it at greater than one million) people worldwide have had personal experiences ranging from seeing UFOs or ETs (and NOT misidentifications) of one description or another, to engaging with the entities that come with the UFOs either willingly or unwillingly. Thousands and thousands of people the world over are traumatized by these events and some of these interactions go on, night after night, sometimes for months or years on end. Many of these experiencers have PTSD.
I used to think you were open minded. b, or at least had an honest world view, an open mind for things of which you know nothing about. Now you are an “expert” simply because you were triggered by the US military / mainstream reporting of all these UFO events. You *kow* that these people have an agenda, but don’t throw the baby out wth the bathwater! You are now, evidently, an “expert” because you have never had a similar experience. It seems that you, along with the US military, the lamestream media and other “omniscient” beings and organizations (after all, you **know** these things absolutely don’t exist, right??), are, to put it nicely, about as open-minded as the Spanish Inquisition regarding your worldview and open-mindedness. People like these don’t give one damn about the facts and the testimony of thousands upon thousands of people who have had these experiences. There DOES exist physical evidence and it’s been around for at least 70 years. (“Don’t bother me with the facts! My mind’s made up!”). But people who have never had these things happen to them prefer to wallow in their own ignorance and provincial attitudes rather than have an open mind to the real events, experiences and, in many cases, sufferings of people who have.
Absence of evidence does not imply evidence of absence. (what, to you, qualifies as “evidence”???) The fact that “ETs” (or whatever label you wish to give them) are here, now, should qualify as the greatest newsworthy event of all time, in the world, yet we have countless articles from countless authors who have never investigated seriously, who are trying to gag, shoot and burn the messengers. You are doing the exact same thing that the US military (and other militaries worldwide) have been doing for at least 7 decades – obfuscating, disinforming, lying, covering up these facts, making up catchy phrases like “conspiracy theory”.
I don’t have any idea of what the US military / government are trying to do with all this talk of UFOs, but i assure you, it is not about disclosing their presence here. As you say, it is primarily about getting more bucks for the MIC. After all this commotion dies down, i’m sure the US wil go back to denying that UFOs and ETs exist here and now. But this smokescreen is meant to do two things at least: 1) get more funding, and 2) discredit the real UFO / ET phenomenon for a few more years.
So not cool, b.

Posted by: anonymous human | Jun 7 2021 6:49 utc | 150

I am a simulation. How about yourself?

Posted by: E | Jun 7 2021 7:58 utc | 151

Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 6:12 utc | 148
We “learnt” fractions at school in the UK when I was kid. Much more useful to divide things that are not multiples of “even numbers”. ie what is the decimal version of one third – except a recurring figure. Not practical if you are a builder.
****
The US military have two aims, one is funding certainly, the other is to include women in the military forces, by making it seem less aggressive and more tolerant. The second is simply a reaction to the probable manner of making war in the future, and wanting to ensure that there are enough survivors of reproductive age to continue the race after a nuclear war.
“Don’t be a civilian if you want to stay alive” – could be the next recruitment. slogan. or “all the survivors will be in bunkers”.
There is actually proof of this. In the recent Armenia Azerbaijan war, a Turkish (possibly Karga2) drone was used. This is possibly the first (or second) use of a perfectly autonomous drone attacking fleeing troops. (The first was possibly in Libya). The obvious question – were they ONLY attacking troops as how can a drone be programmed to detect a difference?
Any “human” is targettable.
See also yesterday on the MoA in review; Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 6 2021 17:59 utc | 23 https://www.stm.com.tr/en/kargu-autonomous-tactical-multi-rotor-attack-uav
and https://www.foxla.com/news/supreme-court-asked-if-men-only-draft-registration-is-sex-discrimination for women being conscripted.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 7 2021 8:07 utc | 152

Well I’m not open minded. An open mind is like a garbage bin, everyone insists to come by and put stuff in it. Or is that not what is ment by open minded?
Better to be a closed minded opportunist: officially closed minded but on the prowl to detect value outside of it and steal it before others see the value. I don’t see that value in UFO’s but I must admit I never tried the ‘I need more money’ angle. I’ll try it out with my boss.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 7 2021 8:58 utc | 153

@anonymous human | Jun 7 2021 6:49 utc | 150
If you want people to accept a claim as truth, show verifiable evidence, that’s all. I have no problem believing any controversial claim, but only if verifiable evidence is provided to me.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 9:21 utc | 154

@Tuyzentfloot | Jun 7 2021 8:58 utc | 153
I would say it is important to have an open mind, but not so open that the brain falls out.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 9:26 utc | 155

Norwegian @ 149
The question is WHEN they were built, who did it, why did they do it and using which technology
Aside from the WHEN, the who, why, and particularly which technology was used juxtapose themselves aptly in any discussion about advanced technologies, like what was apparently employed in NYC on September 11, 2001. This is perhaps the wrong thread, but you being a structural engineer and all, and sympathetic to the indefinite, I’d love to hear your take sometime.
Oh yeah, for years Hoarsewhisperer has been a proponent of the NIST findings in regard to what went down on that day in the Big Apple, so, for what it’s worth…

Posted by: john | Jun 7 2021 10:36 utc | 156

it might be worth correcting an error – there are 8 UNIFORMED services but only 6 ARMED services – public health service and noaa are not armed

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d | Jun 7 2021 12:29 utc | 157

I’m surprised to hear the Space Force is about aliens and UFOs. I thought the point was about earthly threats in orbit, or perhaps on the planets. Though the UFO story might have been thought up to give them a bit of poorly thought out publicity.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 7 2021 12:57 utc | 158

Mr. anonymous human | Jun 7 2021 6:49 utc | 150
I think one could make an argument in an analogous manner to yours, and attribute tangible and concrete existence to ghosts, demons, poltergeist etc. soley based on the experiential claims of human reports.

Posted by: fyi | Jun 7 2021 13:25 utc | 159

US must be on their last trick if they rely on this horseshit.

Posted by: Smith | Jun 7 2021 14:19 utc | 160

@john | Jun 7 2021 10:36 utc | 156

Aside from the WHEN, the who, why, and particularly which technology was used juxtapose themselves aptly in any discussion about advanced technologies, like what was apparently employed in NYC on September 11, 2001. This is perhaps the wrong thread, but you being a structural engineer and all, and sympathetic to the indefinite, I’d love to hear your take sometime.

Based on what we can learn from the origins of the Carolina Bays and the evidences all around the world of an advanced civilization, in some respect more advanced than ourselves, I believe that civilization built the Giza pyramids and much more. My guess is that the comet that struck the Laurentide Ice sheet in north America 12900 years ago created giant tsunamis in the Atlantic and Pacific, eradicating all advanced societies. It took ~7000 years to form a new civilization in Mesopotamia/Egypt.
As for 911, the towers were solid steel buildings, explicitly built to withstand hits by Boeing 720 planes. The 2 planes are a distraction to the cause of the disintegration of 3 high-rises (WTC1+2 and 7). The melting of motor blocks, metal door handles etc. of cars in the area, while at the same time paper didn’t catch fire points in the direction of some form of radiation. I can only guess low yield nuclear devices were used. But yes, it’s not the right thread.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 15:26 utc | 161

@ Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 15:26 utc | 161
No.
This is a common misconception many Westerners have nowadays: that the Egyptian civilization was smoothly transitioned to Ancient Greece, which gave birth to Western Civilization per se with a brief interval (the Dark Ages/Middle Ages).
But really, there’s no secret here: there was a vibrant and highly globalized Bronze Age civilization in the Eastern Mediterranean (of which Greece was a peripheral part of), which collapsed circa 1177 BCE. It was then followed by a long Dark Age, of which Ancient Greece as we know it is part of. It was only revived by the ascension of the Roman Empire, many centuries later.
For the collapse of the Bronze Age civilization, I recommend reading Eric Kline’s “1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed”.
The myth Egypt came sort out of nowhere (and, therefore, could only have be born through the intervention of aliens) comes mainly from two misconceptions that are widespread in how Western education oversimplifies History to their children:
1) that Ancient Greece – the Greece of Homer, Athens and Sparta – was the original civilization of the West and was the most advanced thing of its time. Not only it wasn’t, but it was a backwards region, a fragment of the collapsed Bronze Age civilization. There was no transition from the Stone Age to Ancient Greece: there was a very developed civilization that collapsed, from which ruins Ancient Greece was rebuilt (and migrated to the West, to Italy). In other words, Western History has not one, but two Dark Ages: the era of Classical (Homeric) Greece and the Middle Ages. By starting teaching kids from Classical Greece, it ingrains in the minds of Western children that Egypt was like some anomaly;
2) Since modern Egypt is a backwards country in Africa, it is fashionable ideologically for Western education to insist on the myth Greece was the “cradle of Western Civilization”, therefore completely cutting the West off Asia. The opposite is true: Greece was in the periphery of the Bronze Age civilization, whose center was Egypt and the Levant. Western civilization, therefore, came from the Middle East, not Greece. Greece merely served as an intermediary between the Middle East and the European Peninsula (Magna Graecia and other poleis; see Greek colonization).
Now, sure, some of these myths gain force because of archaeological bias: Egypt was the only civilization of the Bronze Age civilization to survive the collapse of 1177 BCE, therefore the one that survived to “tell the story” (of the collapse), which furthers gives the impression it was a “standalone” civilization. There is also very little evidence of the Bronze Age civilization compared with Ancient Greek and Roman civilizations, which, in a context of basic education in History for kids, naturally induces the teacher to dedicate more time in Greco-Roman History. But much of its is usefulness combined with ideology (Western supremacism).

Posted by: vk | Jun 7 2021 16:03 utc | 162

@ norwegian… thanks… i appreciate all your commentary on this thread in response to the issue of the pyramids.. i will take a look at the link you’ve shared @ 137..
i don’t know why, but i am surprised by hoarsewhispers response…
@ Tuyzentfloot | Jun 7 2021 8:58 utc | 153.. as that was likely directed at my comment – i am not surprised by your response.. its one i have heard before, but again i defer to norwegians comment to you.. cheers..
@ 146 dh… tough talking with a religious bigot… i admire your attempts but i fear you won’t succeed in changing their mind…

Posted by: james | Jun 7 2021 16:06 utc | 163

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 6:34 utc | 149
(Hoarsewhiperer’s ridiculous claims re pyramids)
Thanks for the input but we’ll have to agree to disagree. The ‘rubble’ reference is factual re Cheops. A couple of clues to its veracity are:
1. Rubble has a “batter” which is the natural angle of repose of any heap of granular material whether it be crushed rock, sand, sugar, salt or boulders. It differs from one material to another.
2. The angle of the sides of Cheops is much flatter, compared to vertical walls, than would be necessary if it was built, homogenously, of closely fitting masonry. It’s much closer to the angle of repose of a pile of boulders such as one can observe at a seaside breakwater/harbour. You’ll recall that the first large pyramid collapsed because the sides of the lower section were too steep.
Too steep for what?
For the natural batter of the rubble behind the outer masonry. i.e. the rubble, being restrained at an unnaturally steep angle by the outer masonry walls, and not being bonded, broke through the masonry walls restraining it from reaching equilibrium.
One (me) may conclude that rubble was the cheapest way to bulk up a gigantic pyramid. And rather than abandon the concept of rubble as the major component of gigantic pyramids, they abandoned the concept of restraining rubble at an UNNATURALLY steep angle.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 7 2021 16:17 utc | 164

@ Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 7 2021 16:17 utc | 164.. you might find the youtube link that norwegian shared @ 137 quite fascinating.. here is the link again..
The Improbable Timeline of the Old Kingdom Mega-Pyramid Builders

Posted by: james | Jun 7 2021 16:24 utc | 165

@163. It passes the time james. The UFO topic is interesting. Of course if you believe in God or Allah or whatever then you have all the answers. Most of us just wonder what we’re doing on this amazing planet spinning round the sun.
The Egyptians, the Maya, Albumasar, Galileo, Newton….people have always looked out into space and wondered. Who are we? Why are we here? Are we alone? Now we have the Hubble telescope and Mars landings. The quest for knowledge will continue.

Posted by: dh | Jun 7 2021 16:34 utc | 166

@dh… thanks.. i agree – the quest for knowledge will continue.. i quite liked what you said @ 143.. as simplistic as it sounds, i think it is very true..

Posted by: james | Jun 7 2021 16:38 utc | 167

@vk | Jun 7 2021 16:03 utc | 162

But really, there’s no secret here: there was a vibrant and highly globalized Bronze Age civilization in the Eastern Mediterranean (of which Greece was a peripheral part of), which collapsed circa 1177 BCE. It was then followed by a long Dark Age, of which Ancient Greece as we know it is part of. It was only revived by the ascension of the Roman Empire, many centuries later.

I am sorry, but you are off by about 10000 years wrt. the actual topic. Nobody disputes Greek history.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 16:44 utc | 168

@james | Jun 7 2021 16:06 utc | 163

@ norwegian… thanks… i appreciate all your commentary on this thread in response to the issue of the pyramids.. i will take a look at the link you’ve shared @ 137..
i don’t know why, but i am surprised by hoarsewhispers response…

You are welcome, I do encourage you to look at that link. Please note this discussion is not just about the pyramids, but they are useful as introduction to the topic which is really about human civilization history and related technology.
The pyramids are often in focus because they are so spectacular and known by everybody. For sure they are very, very interesting, but there are lots of other sites that are just as mind boggling, in Egypt and elsewhere. If you are interested, I have many other examples from all over the world, say +/- 30 degrees from the equator on every continent.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 16:58 utc | 169

@ james | Jun 7 2021 16:24 utc | 165
I am glad you found the information fascinating, because it is! If you keep on looking around this and similar topics, you will find much more. Just remember to keep the UFO and “ancient aliens” stuff in a totally different category, as there is no verifiable evidence to support it. As you saw from the video from Egypt, there is a wealth of verifiable evidence that human civilization is far older than our school books say, even if there were extended periods (several thousand years) of dark ages between them after cataclysms struck, either from comets or even extreme Solar Coronal Mass Ejections.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 7 2021 17:58 utc | 170

thanks norwegian.. i hear and agree with all your say here… thanks for discussing this more at length.. it is quite fascinating.. i am not sure how much time i have to devote to it, but i have watched a half of the video you first shared and will finish it… thanks!

Posted by: james | Jun 7 2021 18:21 utc | 171

@170 Norwegian
I wanted to chime also in at what might be the end of the thread to say thanks for everything you’ve shared here and in other threads on this matter, and also thanks to those who’ve been in discussion with you.
I wouldn’t have known about the meteor event, nor thought in terms of the ability to wipe out global culture and civilization – nor would I have downloaded so many of those fascinating video reports and their astounding, incontrovertible evidence of what was created before our current history – without your major input.
It’s perhaps not so much a case of keeping an open mind, as having it opened by recurring facts that require a larger story to rest in than one currently possesses. It’s about being simply human, and watching the world turn.
And watching one’s old paradigms shift and reshape beneath one’s feet – among the loveliest experiences we have, and who could not be grateful for being given that?

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 7 2021 22:59 utc | 172

UFO is not important. What people have to learn about is EFD (extraterrestrial flying device). There are thousands of them all over the world.

Posted by: Kim Jong Il | Jun 8 2021 5:41 utc | 173

@Grieved | Jun 7 2021 22:59 utc | 172
Thank you for commenting, it is much appreciated! Yes indeed, the cataclysmic events of the Younger Dryas period, starting ~12900 years ago with a comet impact at the Laurentide Ice Sheet over present day Michigan, USA needs to be better recognised for what it was by people. For a deep dive into more information about US geomorphology that indeed is explained through those events, look up Randall Carlson’s Kosmographia podcast.
The impact threw ice crystals into earth orbit, largely blocking sunlight for 1200 years causing a “nuclear winter”, until they dissipated and temperatures rose again, quickly.

It’s perhaps not so much a case of keeping an open mind, as having it opened by recurring facts that require a larger story to rest in than one currently possesses. It’s about being simply human, and watching the world turn.

I agree entirely with this, well put!

And watching one’s old paradigms shift and reshape beneath one’s feet – among the loveliest experiences we have, and who could not be grateful for being given that?

Yes, we live in a time where indeed paradigms are shifting. The events in current geopolitics are of course major from our human lifetime perspective, but they are dwarfed by the events of 12900 years ago.
Yes, I am very grateful for the opportunity to learn about our ancient past in a profound new way, it is the most exciting thing I have ever experienced.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 8 2021 5:59 utc | 174

The UFO phenomenon which appeared especially from the 1950s (after the famous Roswell affair) is above all a diversionary operation of the anti-traditional oligarchy (pleonasm) which, then associated with the New Age phenomenon, consists in removing as much as possible the individual of himself by orienting him towards an entirely exterior and cutesy supernatural, covered with a layer of the most base materialism.
The supernatural is a modern conception that characterizes an era of intellectual decay and ignorance that mankind has passed through but from which we are on the verge of emerging.
Link (french) : https://livresdefemmeslivresdeverites.blogspot.com/2017/07/ceuxquiviventcesontceuxquiluttent.html

Posted by: Annwn | Jun 8 2021 8:43 utc | 175

@Stonebird | Jun 6 2021 20:49 utc | 139
Just a note to say I have read through the page about Egyptian geodesy you provided. For sure there is lots of food for thought there, although it is hard to be conclusive about it. One question that comes up is if these fractional distances are indeed measuring fractions of the circumference of the earth, where did the knowledge of the earth being a globe and its precise circumference length come from? Inherited knowledge from more advanced ancestors?
Thanks for the input!

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 8 2021 9:28 utc | 176

Norwegian | Jun 8 2021 9:28 utc | 176
Lots of little things don’t fit, do they?
Example;, If you take the length (440 cubits) of one side of Cheops pyramid and divide it by the height (280 cubits) you get 1.57142857142857 etc. multiply that by 2 equals => 3.14285714 etc. Close to the “artistic” form of Pi – ( * as used by artists). Now where did that come from?
“Inherited knowledge from more advanced ancestors?”
If the Pyramids were built before the “Period” dictated by that “expert scientist” (his words) Hawas, then the knowledge was not “inherited” but actual knowledge exiasting for the time in which they were built. Humm.
Anyway, Hawas has been dethroned for corruption (?). So goodness knows how many and how much of Egypts treasures have disappeared, because of him.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 8 2021 10:25 utc | 177

@ Stonebird | Jun 8 2021 10:25 utc | 177

Example;, If you take the length (440 cubits) of one side of Cheops pyramid and divide it by the height (280 cubits) you get 1.57142857142857 etc. multiply that by 2 equals => 3.14285714 etc. Close to the “artistic” form of Pi – ( * as used by artists). Now where did that come from?

If we accept the idea that the pyramids were built by the civilization that existed before the Younger Dryas, i.e. more than 12900 years BP (Before Present), then we should refer to the Giza pyramids as “The Great Pyramid”, “The Second Pyramid” and so on, because Cheops/Khufu etc. had no roles in their creation.
Yes, there could be a message system built in, PI is a pretty significant number. But it is also possible to discover patterns that don’t really exist, so a grain of salt is always useful.

If the Pyramids were built before the “Period” dictated by that “expert scientist” (his words) Hawas, then the knowledge was not “inherited” but actual knowledge exiasting for the time in which they were built. Humm.

Indeed, I agree.

Anyway, Hawas has been dethroned for corruption (?). So goodness knows how many and how much of Egypts treasures have disappeared, because of him.

Zahi Hawass got fired as Minister of Antiquities at one stage, but he is still active. Here’s an article from February this year Egypt to announce huge archaeological discovery in Luxor this March: Zahi Hawass
Hawass has been very destructive for a long time…

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 8 2021 11:59 utc | 178

Yes, this is being mined for defense dollars.
That does not mean it is untrue.
It was inconvenient in the middle of mining defense dollars for the Cold War, and then for the War on Terror. So the truth was hidden.
What is the truth? Well, you can’t tell from what these people want you to believe in support of their mining of defense dollars. That is just manipulation of information, done to manipulate us, done to get money.
However, there does seem to be something real out there. That is a new and startling admission.
What is it? Can’t say, but that does not mean, “So, ignore it.”
There is something real here. We need to deal with that.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Jun 9 2021 18:05 utc | 179

I posted some comments and links to Caitlin Johnstone’s series on the Great UFO Hoax of 2021 under b’s latest piece on space travel. Maybe I should have posted them here.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 9 2021 21:23 utc | 180