Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 23, 2021

These Uppity Brits Need A Slap-like Lesson

The Brits were getting a bit uppity today so the Russians responded by opening fire:

A Russian patrol ship and fighter jet have fired warning shots after the British destroyer HMS Defender violated the country’s border in the Black Sea. The UK embassy's defense attaché has been summoned by officials in Moscow.

According to Russia’s Ministry of Defense, the British naval ship entered the country's territorial waters at 11:52am local time and traveled 3km inside the frontier, near Cape Fiolent, in Crimea. The peninsula is not recognized by the United Kingdom as Russian land and London believes it to be illegally occupied Ukrainian territory.

“At 12:06 and 12:08, a border patrol ship fired warning shots,” the Defense Ministry said. “(And) at 12:19, a Su-24m aircraft performed a warning bombing (4 OFAB-250) ahead of the course of the USS Defender.”

Four minutes later, at 12:23, the destroyer left Russian territory.

The Brits denied that any shots were fired at(!) them:

UK Defense Ministry claimed that HMS conducts an "innocent passage through Ukrainian territorial waters in accordance with the international law" and rejected Russian Defense Ministry’s claims that warning shots were fired or bombs were dropped in the destroyer’s path.

"The Royal Navy ship is conducting innocent passage through Ukrainian territorial waters in accordance with international law," the Defense Ministry press service said in its Twitter Wednesday, referring to the internationally recognized right to sail through territorial waters of a country provided they mean no harm. "We believe the Russians were undertaking a gunnery exercise in the Black Sea and provided the maritime community with prior-warning of their activity. No shots were directed at HMS Defender and we do not recognize the claim that bombs were dropped in her path."

The Defense Ministry also claimed that the destroyer was traveling in an "internationally recognized traffic separation corridor."

That is non-denial denial. Warning shots are never directed AT the target.

A BBC journalist on board of the British ship does not think that it was just an 'innocent passage':

The crew were already at action stations as they approached the southern tip of Russian occupied Crimea. Weapons systems on board the Royal Navy destroyer had already been loaded.

This would be a deliberate move to make a point to Russia. HMS Defender was going to sail within the 12 mile (19km) limit of Crimea's territorial waters. The captain insisted he was only seeking safe passage thorough an internationally recognised shipping lane.

Two Russian coastguard ships that were shadowing the Royal Navy warship, tried to force it to alter course. At one stage one of the Russian vessels closed in to about 100m (328ft).

Increasingly hostile warnings were issued over the radio - including one that said "if you don't change course I'll fire". We did hear some firing in the distance but they were believed to be well out of range.

As HMS Defender sailed through the shipping lane it was buzzed by Russian jets. The Captain, Vincent Owen, said the ship detected more than 20 military aircraft nearby. Commander Owen said his mission was confident but non-confrontational.

The BBC reporter phoned his report in. One can hear Russian jets buzzing the ship.


Innocent passage with loaded weapons? That is a no no. Passing a battle ready warship through Russian territorial water without necessity? There are no 'shipping lanes' in that area but lots of room to the west to pass around Crimea.

So no. The Brits were clearly seeking a confrontation. There was also a U.S. spy plane flying in the area to record the Russian reaction.


This came just hours after the U.K had signed an agreement with the Ukraine for the "enhancement of Ukrainian naval capabilities":

Contractual work will now begin to implement the following projects:
  • Missile sale and integration on new and in-service Ukrainian Navy patrol and airborne platforms, including a training and engineering support package.
  • The development and joint production of eight fast missile warships.
  • The creation of a new naval base on the Black Sea as the primary fleet base for Ukraine and a new base on the Sea of Azov.
  • Babcock will participate in the Ukrainian project to deliver a modern frigate capability.
  • A Government to Government sale of two refurbished Sandown class mine countermeasure vessels.

The editor of the Chinese Global Times says that Britain should receive a "slap-like lesson" for today's incident. That is probably a good idea. But Russia tends to not react hasty over such issues. Revenge is best served cold.

Unrelated to the above a slap-like lesson was given to Britain today when U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken arrived in Germany:

"I think it's fair to say that the United States has no better partner, no better friend in the world than Germany," Blinken said. He is scheduled to meet with Chancellor Angela Merkel and Foreign Minister Heiko Maas.

London will not like that statement.

Next week NATO will run its Exercise Seabreeze in and near to the Black Sea in which soldiers and sailors from some 30 nations will take part. In light of today's provocation the Russian military will probably prepare some surprises for them.

Posted by b on June 23, 2021 at 16:15 UTC | Permalink

next page »

This UK action is similar to many US actions in the South China Sea, and was probably ordered by Washington to its UK puppet.
The problem is that the US (and now the UK) get mixed up in the verbiage. Is it innocent passage through recognized territorial waters, or is a a challenge to territorial rights, i.e. you don't really own Crimea?
According to UNCLOS (UN Convention on the Law of the Sea)--
UNCLOS: Article 19
Meaning of innocent passage
1.Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 23 2021 16:30 utc | 1

thanks b..... not sure how laguerre feels about all these european type articles, lol....

i am surprised the bbc journalist was allowed to be so forthright! your link there redirects to the blinken quote. might want to fix that... i would like to read the bbc article.. i see it now in the twitter link.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Jun 23 2021 16:35 utc | 2

here is the actual bbc link, further down the twitter feed..

Posted by: james | Jun 23 2021 16:36 utc | 3

The link posted by james (Jun 23 2021 16:36 utc) is the correct link for b's sentence "A BBC journalist on board of the British ship does not think that it was just an 'innocent passage'". b's link goes to the Deutsche Welle story and is thus redundant to the DW link later on.

Posted by: corvo | Jun 23 2021 16:40 utc | 4

Keep in mind that the incursion into the Black Sea c an be interpreted only as a threat of aggressive war.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Jun 23 2021 16:49 utc | 5

I posted on the ZeroHedge article about this.

This not just any random piece of Russian coastline.

It is Sevastopol!

Quoting my own post from ZH:

"For those that do not know, that is Sevastopol Naval Base. The home of the Black Sea fleet. Russia considers Sevastopol, as the country's only warm water port, one of the most critical military locations in the whole country and therefore one of the most heavily guarded places on the planet.

The British sailing a single destroyer into Sevastopol right now is like a single honeybee flying solo into into a big angry hornet's nest.

While conducting massive NATO Black Sea wargames practicing an invasion of Crimea, if you really wanted to start WW 3, sailing NATO warships into restricted waters of Sevastopol would be great way to do it."

Posted by: Mar man | Jun 23 2021 17:05 utc | 6

I hope the Russians realize that when the time comes to actually shoot at the hostiles that they shoot to kill. No light machine gun rounds hitting on a harmless part of the ship. They need to hit hard and with the intention of not just disabling the warship but quickly sinking it. Pulling your punches in a fight with the empire, and even its poodles, is how you lose that fight. Hitting hard is how you earn respect from primitives.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 23 2021 17:13 utc | 7

Time is running up for the West on the Ukrainian fiasco. Ukraine is draining too much financial resources from the West, with no end in sight.

This UK maneuver must be interpreted as an act of desperation, as a hot war is the West's last hope of saving the Ukrainian enterprise.

Posted by: vk | Jun 23 2021 17:32 utc | 8

The potential US takeover of Sevastopol naval base was a major incentive for the US-led Kiev coup in 2014. In fact, in 2013 the US Navy was proposing some possible "school" construction in Sevastopol. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 23 2021 17:32 utc | 9

I should say that primitives cannot respect restraint. They see it only as weakness and an invitation to up their aggression.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 23 2021 17:32 utc | 10

Interesting response from some of Canada's media.

1) State broadcaster, CBC, runs the Thomson Reuters release, which is heavy on the British perspective and includes a lament (via a Tweet) from Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba about Russian aggression.

2) CTV News gives a much broader view, including comments by Zakharova and Gerasimov, using AP sourced info. Notes that it's the first time since the Cold War that Russia used live ammunition to deter a NATO warship.

3) Global News runs the Reuters release as well, keeps it brief.

4) Here's the La Presse take on it (sourced from Agence France-Presse)

Generally, Canadians can (and usually do) silently approve of Russia firing live ammunition at overly-aggressive British warships.

I wouldn't worry about Britain starting WW3 - they are much too clever/crafty for that.

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 23 2021 17:32 utc | 11

Just to point out that Tony Blinken and Vicki Nuland (Shepsel Nudelman) are both Ukrainian Jews. They want it back.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Jun 23 2021 17:35 utc | 12

@ BN, 11
I wouldn't worry about Britain starting WW3 - they are much too clever/crafty for that.
What's this, the comedy hour?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 23 2021 17:38 utc | 13

It's hard to imagine how the enormous Western MSM propaganda industry might get away with spinning such a clear military provocation as but an innocent gander into internationally recognized sea lanes, but Lord knows their spin-Meisters have managed worse deceptions and prevarications before, -- e.g. "WMDs" -- especially among the Americans, about whom P.T. Barnum once correctly remarked; "No one ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the American public." or, as the same basic thought is sometimes also expressed; "Americans will buy ANYTHING!"

Posted by: Dr. William Fusfield | Jun 23 2021 17:40 utc | 14

Clearly abdolute dimwit Raab did understand the consequences of Lavrov's phonecall to him the other day. Flaming heck.

Posted by: Jo | Jun 23 2021 17:42 utc | 15

@ Bruised Northerner #11

‘ They are much too crafty/clever to do that ‘.

I’m not so sure. Ukraine isn’t in NATO so the PTB know article 5 couldn’t be enacted IF the Russians had seriously opened fire, because you can be certain the Russians knew the R.N. vessel was armed with live ammunition. This was a very dumb decision either by the captain or his superiors. I’d wager other NATO contries would shy away of becoming involved in a hot war with Russia because of a pathetic show of Bravado by an ex E.U. member.

Posted by: Beibdnn | Jun 23 2021 17:44 utc | 16

@ Oldhippie | Jun 23 2021 17:35 utc | 12

Actually Shepsel Nudelman was the father of the evil neocon/neolib cookie critter, but your point is well taken.

Posted by: corvo | Jun 23 2021 17:47 utc | 17

Not surprising as small tactical adjustments don't make for a change in strategy.

At this point it's hard to know which will come first; Nuclear Holocaust or the Zombie Apocalypse brought to you by Covid Variant Z.

A slap against Empire only encourages it. Some point soon a body blow is coming.

Posted by: gottlieb | Jun 23 2021 18:06 utc | 18

" Russia tends to not react hasty over such issues."

"Russia tends to not react hasty at all over such issues, thus emboldening the enemy."

Fixed that for you.

" London will not like that statement."

Why should it care? Blinked was talking about countries. Brutain isn't a country, it's a fully owned colony of America.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 23 2021 18:19 utc | 19

The BBC’s Jonathan Beale is depicted wearing an anti-flash hood in the video image presented in the link by James.

Anti-flash gear is not normal seafaring garb and is only donned when the v/l is at action stations and prepared for combat.

The image evidence directly contradicts the statements of Boris and the MoB.
It further supports Beale's statement to the effect the ships weapons were loaded and manned.

A v/l at action stations and ready for combat is not a v/l engaged in "innocent passage" as defined by International Law. It is a v/l demonstrating hostile intent and the coastal state is entitled to take whatever action it deems necessary.

Posted by: Sushi | Jun 23 2021 18:19 utc | 20

IMO, the only way to end the Hybrid World War is to unleash a Real War that gives NATO the Georgian Treatment of 2008. But that won't happen. The Post-Summit behavior by NATO/EU is such that Russia and Belarus should cease any further interactions with those unfriendly nations but continue to honor current commitments such as business contracts. Concentrate on developing Eurasia and Africa while aiding friendly nations in Latin America. The West wants to shit on itself in every way possible, so let it. How many more Nazi provocations will it take to learn they aren't worth dealing with unless it's at a trial for their crimes. I wonder how many of those British tars are willing to die for a bunch of Nazis?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 18:24 utc | 21

@13 and @16

I should explain my comment. The British would not start WW3 by sailing one of their own warships into Russian territory. (a Canadian one maybe!!) So yes, they may start WW3 - but not by doing something as overt as this. That's what I meant.

I wonder if the clever/crafty British are demonstrating to certain countries, perhaps in Nordic (Arctic?) regions, that the Russo-British balance of power is still in place, even with Brexit and a US power in decline. Those of us who live in these regions rely on that balance. (When the Russians stop shooting, we are in big trouble.)

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 23 2021 18:25 utc | 22

"No shots were directed at HMS Defender and we do not recognize the claim that bombs were dropped in her path."

That^^ is some Monty Python level stupid on Britain's part. It reminds me of the Black Knight from The Holy Grail. Can't wait for an Act 2 of this farce.

Posted by: Woogs | Jun 23 2021 18:26 utc | 23

It is generaly the case with US bullies (and others too) that they won't really come to heel without a punch or two in the mouth. Especially if they have wedded themselves to the idea of their own superiority, as the British & US (and others too) elites do. Sometimes a real willingness to fight is enough, sometimes not.

The Russians must have got quite insistent, without taking the bait and just sinking them, to run them off like this.

Both Turkey and the UK have shown interest in getting into the Ukraine situation with joint ventures and the like, I am interested to see to what extent the Russians will approve of that (since they aren't going to pay for it). This sort of thing probably will not help with that.

I will hazard a guess that the intention here was to get something hot but not too hot going, such that the media could go nuts over it and they would no longer have to explain what they are trying to do or why they keep failing.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 23 2021 18:27 utc | 24

@ Bruised Northerner | Jun 23 2021 17:32 utc | 11.. thanks... it is worth pointing out that every wire service - reuters, associated press and afp - Agence France-Presse) that you link to are a direct part of the propaganda multiplier... here is a very good link that goes into it directly...
i have noticed cbc is very reluctant to open up articles it writes on russia to public comment lately.. i think it has ran into the problem that many of those who comment, including myself - challenge the bullshit directly... thus, they are now keeping the comments sections closed! it speaks favourably to the ordinary canuck who can see bullshit when it is staring them straight in the face!

@ Sushi | Jun 23 2021 18:19 utc | 20... thanks... i don't see how the west think they can get away with this.. it is a clear provocation.. and i agree with @ 7 william gruff..

Posted by: james | Jun 23 2021 18:27 utc | 25

Why is Russia financing its own destruction?

In present composition of Russia’s foreign currency holdings the British pound’s share was slightly down – by 0.2 percentage points, to 6.3% of $588 billion ($37 billion). Why such large holdings of British Pound? Russia is strengthening its adversaries.

The UK is not among the top ten export or import countries for Russia. Also, Russia has trade surplus with the UK for the past two decades. Russian oligarchs have escaped with their loot to Britain. So Russia is enabling its looting?

Russia and its neighborhood is under attack after the Biden-Putin summit. “Belarusian Revolution” has been launched. Activities are picking up in Ukraine. The Financial Empire is playing good-cop/bad-cop geopolitical game with Russia. What happened to Russia’s red lines?

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 18:46 utc | 26

I had to laugh at this statement by Russia's Defense Ministry as reported by TASS:

"Russian Defense Ministry views the dangerous actions of the Royal Navy Destroyer as a blatant violation of the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. The Russian military ministry called on the British side to conduct a thorough investigation of the HMS Defender crew for prevention of similar incidents in the future." [My Emphasis]

Investigating the crew for following orders from NATO's master the Outlaw US Empire is quaint. I recall Putin's promise to attack the command and control centers ordering such actions and the politicians wherever they might hide. Although I know it's not Russian practice to repeat previous statements of that sort, but perhaps that promise ought to be made just one more time.

TASS also has a report saying Russia's actions were within International Law:

"Russia's use of weapons in an incident involving the British destroyer HMS Defender off Cape Fiolent, Crimea, was entirely justified from the standpoint of international law, the head of the working group for international legal issues of Crimea's permanent mission at the Russian presidential office, Alexander Molokhov, told TASS.

"'It goes without saying that it was a hostile act towards Russia and an encroachment on our territorial inviolability and maritime space. It was a provocation, reconnaissance in combat. I am very glad that despite the provocative actions our border guard forces displayed certain restraint and took no action that might escalate the conflict. It is true that warning shots were fired, and that was enough,' Molokhov said.

"He pointed out that Russia's response was strictly in line with international law.

"The use of weapons by Russia in its territory was totally justified from the standpoint of international law. I do hope that after such a punch there will be no more attempts to venture into our territory without permission."

When will the people of the UK finally be liberated from the Dictatorship they've suffered under for over 1,000 years, a dictatorship that's killed millions of its own and those it subjugated. It surely is one of history's most heinous nations.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 18:56 utc | 27

Above, it is said that Britain is not going to "start WW3". Perhaps not. But I recall that it was she that declared war on Germany, thus starting, quite nicely, say many.

Best to all an' 'specially friend karlov1

As to asymmetry... Russian Pacific Fleet, it's said, is quite near Hawaii...

Posted by: Walter | Jun 23 2021 19:10 utc | 28

Barflies may not know of the devastating floods that have hit Crimea, and that this provocation occurred as the populace tried to deal with that crisis. Nice way of saying to Crimeans that your way of helping is by sending a locked and loaded warship. This transcript details Russia's response to the flooding. The initial topic for the meeting was the discussion of Russia's new special investment contracts, which will help people learn how Russia is financing its development, particularly Max, who thinks Russia is being controlled by the Money Power. Do note the significant military component to the aid being delivered.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 19:10 utc | 29

Nice article detailing concerning activity. It reminds me of one a while back in which US Air Force planes were "patrolling" similar area with weapons armed.

The key point seems to be the US observer plane, they are documenting Russia's standard response plan. This all very dangerously stupidity, but I think I see the point.

From the Russian point of view, its a live fly training exercise given to them by NATO.

This upcoming military exercise in the Black Sea seems very, very foolish.

Posted by: Donny Matter | Jun 23 2021 19:14 utc | 30

@Mar Man #6 ""For those that do not know, that is Sevastopol Naval Base. The home of the Black Sea fleet. Russia considers Sevastopol, as the country's only warm water port.."
Can you check the traffic on this map:

The main russian port is Novorossiysk not Sevastopol, furthermore the "New naval base" whose construction was decided in the early 2000s, was supposed to replace Sevastopol...
Dmitry Medvedev inspected the Moskva guided missile cruiser in the water area of Novorossiysk Bay
July 14, 2009

The main base for Black Sea Fleet warships on Russian coasts has been built in Novorossiysk Bay since 2005. The programme should be completed by 2020. Hydraulic and onshore facilities are currently under construction. Subsequently, an infrastructure for maritime aviation, marine infantry units and coastal defence troops will be built.
“NSP is the largest port in Russia and the Black Sea basin and the third in Europe. In 2011 it accounted for 21% of total cargo turnover in the country”
“The naval base is equipped with 5 berths (including floating dock) capable to receive up to 100 vessels from 1500 to 30,000 DWT. The submarine base shelters all 7 diesel-powered submarines of Russian Black Sea Navy.
The Russian facility at Tartus has been used for delivering armaments and supplies by Russian dock landing ships and cargo ships that pass the Straits from the Russian Black Sea port in Novorossiysk to Syria (the Syrian Express)

Posted by: Kristof | Jun 23 2021 19:19 utc | 31

Walter @28--

So good to read your prose again! Hope you and the Missus are doing well and coping with the drought. It would be nice for the fire bug to say away, but we already have one fire by Mt. Hood that's burned @10K acres. Hope that bug stays clear of your area! IMO, Russia would rather pacify Guam and liberate the Guamanians. China and North Korea would also applaud.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 19:20 utc | 32

Kristof @31--

Thanks for providing that info. However, it must be noted that the point of building Novorossiysk was because of Ukrainian behavior which made it clearly unreliable and put the Black Sea Fleet in jeopardy. Furthermore, the failure of the Donbass Republics to capture Odessa also adds complications for Russia.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 19:27 utc | 33

@ karlof1 (#29)... no miscommunication. Not me “who thinks Russia is being controlled by the Money Power.” Russia is being CHALLENGED by the Money Power (Global Financial Syndicate). The U$A is controlled by the Money Power.

@ karlof1 (#21), ... “IMO, the only way to end the Hybrid World War is to unleash a Real War that gives NATO...” (#27)... “When will the people of the UK finally be liberated from the Dictatorship they've suffered under for over 1,000 years, a dictatorship that's killed millions of its own and those it subjugated. It surely is one of history's most heinous nations.”

How can China and Russia checkmate the Financial Empire without firing a shot?

China, Russia and their supporters need to stop complaining until they are exposing reality of their adversaries. Why aren’t China & Russia exposing the fake democracy, capitalism, independent media,... myths? When will they expose the CONTROL structure of the Empire and its mechanism? How about shining light on the power players and their lackeys? How about exposing the monetary enslavement of the Empire?

What is the power hierarchy of the Monetary Imperialism?
Here is a version that was shared. Any better?
– TOP: evil royals (Windsor, Orange, Hapsburg,...) + few more old money

– THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS (masterminds):
Rothschilds, Warburgs + others, the INNER CIRCLE

The City of London

Rockefellers, Buffet, Soros, Du Ponts, Bill Gates, Schwab, + a few other oligarchs that work on global scale

— ENFORCEMENT ARMS: MI6 (the CIA, Mossad, the 5eyes agencies, large mercenary contractors, etc are the subdivisions)

– FOOT SOLDIERS: masons and Moslem brotherhood

– MIND CONTROL AND PR: virtually all media, the msm and social, except for truly independent Mavericks

– THE MOST NOTORIOUS THINK TANKS (the incubators of social engineering projects):
Tavistock Institute, the Pillgrim Society, the Round Table

Bilderberg, Davos, Jackson Hole

– ELITES... top management directly underneath:
Active oligarchs/elites with banks and global corps

– PUPPETS: political figures and oligarchs in trading

What is the REALITY of the global power?

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 19:31 utc | 34

Increasingly hostile warnings were issued over the radio - including one that said "if you don't change course I'll fire".

And who wants to bet that the Russians were courteous enough to issue this warning in perfect English? Stupid Brit lapdogs have no business making "innocent" passage or otherwise. What is "innocent" about a naval warship with loaded and readied weapons systems? Orwellian newspeak is fully adopted by the Evil Empire and her minions.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 23 2021 19:32 utc | 35

@Tom_Q_Collins, "not perfect English" but at first the HMS Defender answered:

Posted by: Kristof | Jun 23 2021 19:36 utc | 36

Small point but territorial waters are 12 nautical miles wide which is equivalent to ~22.2 km.

The ship involved, HMS Defender was shown on as being just off Crimea at 12:20 on 22/06/21. 26 hours later (about 14:40 on 23/06/21) it was shown as being berthed in Bahrain. That is a distance of about 4250 nautical miles, so to do that in 26 hours, the ship had to be travelling at over 160 knots - the maximum speed of HMS Defender is in the region of 30 knots.

So is the Royal Navy playing around with AIS codes? Was HMS Defender really sailing from Odessa to Georgia? Where is HMS Defender now?

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jun 23 2021 19:38 utc | 37

worth repeating - usa-uk approach is shown clearly in this 1 minute video...

Posted by: james | Jun 23 2021 19:41 utc | 38

I'm seeing a slightly different version of the Brits' statement than what b found at TASS.

"No warning shots have been fired at HMS Defender. The Royal Navy ship is conducting innocent passage through Ukrainian territorial waters in accordance with international law. We believe the Russians were undertaking a gunnery exercise in the Black Sea and provided the maritime community with prior warning of their activity. No shots were directed at HMS Defender and we do not recognise the claim that bombs were dropped in her path."

Emphasis is mine. It's just a one sentence difference, and it doesn't substantially change the message. "No warning shots have been fired at..." is essentially the same as the second similar sentence "...directed at..." and as b has pointed out, of course no warning shots are aimed/directed/fired with the intent to hit a target.

The interesting thing to me is that they specifically said no bombs were dropped in her path and I haven't seen an official Russian military version of events. Does anyone have a link to their statement?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 23 2021 19:48 utc | 39

I saw karlof1's secondary TASS link and it only gave very general details:

Russia's Black Sea Fleet and the FSB's border guard service on Wednesday stopped a violation of Russia's state border by the British destroyer HMS Defender off Cape Fiolent. A patrol ship fired warning shots and a Sukhoi-24M jet dropped bombs, also in a warning gesture, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

If bombs were dropped, it does seem more likely that a Russian naval live fire training coincided with the British incursion into Crimean waters. But to think or say that bombs might have been "dropped in her path" implying in front of her in her direction of travel requires some more clarification to me from either side. It's also highly likely that the British are intentionally downplaying what happened, but why would the Russians be wasting bombs, and in a busy shipping channel? Perhaps both sides are being coy with what really happened???

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 23 2021 19:53 utc | 40

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jun 23 2021 19:38 utc | 37

According to a US Navy news website, it would appear that US/UK/NATO has been playing games similar to what you surmise, and using the HMS Defender.

The tracking data of two NATO warships was faked off the coast of a Russian controlled naval base in the Black Sea while the actual ships were moored 180 miles away, USNI News has learned.

The U.K. Royal Navy’s HMS Defender, a Type-45 Daring-class destroyer, and the Royal Netherlands Navy’s HNLMS Evertsen, a De Zeven Provinciën-class frigate, pulled into Odessa in Ukraine on June 18. The group had been monitored by Russian warships while exercising in the Black Sea, according to U.S. Navy photos dated on June 17.

According to an automatic identification system (AIS) signal, which transmits position details to improve maritime safety, the pair left Odessa just before midnight on June 18. The data shows that they sailed directly to Sevastopol, approaching to within two nautical miles of the harbor entrance. The strategic port houses the headquarters of Russia’s Black Sea fleet.

Despite the AIS track, there is clear evidence that the two warships did not leave Odessa. Live webcam feeds show that they did not leave Odessa, however. This was anyway the known situation in defense circles, and local media. Anyone in Odessa can see that they did not leave. The webcams are broadcast live on YouTube by Odessa Online. Screenshots archived by third party weather sites like show the two warships present in Odessa overnight.

Positioning two NATO warships at the entrance at the entrance of a major Russian naval base would be widely seen as a provocative action, based on conflicting claims of sovereignty . Most of the international community, including the U.S, Britain and the Netherlands, do not recognize Crimea as part of Russia.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 23 2021 20:03 utc | 41

Looks like an urgent outbreak of British mad cow disease on board of HMS Defender!

Posted by: Wolle | Jun 23 2021 20:05 utc | 42

Tom_Q_Collins @40

Obviously the sLimey warship was not in a busy shipping shipping lane, which is why it was intercepted by the Russian coast guard. As for FAB-250 bombs, they're free. Old stockpiles from the Soviet days. The Russians have literally millions of them taking up space in warehouses, so no opportunity is too mundane to use a couple of them.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 23 2021 20:09 utc | 43

re Don Bacon @1

According to what I heard, the US was not involved in the movement.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 20:10 utc | 44

The Charge of the Shite Brigade.

Posted by: Leif Sachs | Jun 23 2021 20:13 utc | 45

The brits denied that an event happened, but the BBC reporter on the HMS Defender reported shots being fired. It's a bit difficult believing the govt version.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 20:20 utc | 46

I do think it's important to remember, but Russian policy with regard to the West has been defensive for several centuries, and this case is just another example (the East is different: they were happy to take Siberia and Central Asia as colonial lands).

They have a phobia about being invaded from the West. The Swedes in the 17th century, Napoleon, and then the Germans in the 1st and 2nd WWs. Putin is not different. The maximal position was the Soviet takeover of Eastern Europe, intended to provide a geographical barrier against future invasions, as I learnt from my wise father, a specialist in these subjects during the Cold war. The retention of Eastern Europe wasn't a wise solution to their problem, as we've discovered since. There were indeed plans to invade Western Europe, as was discovered after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, but there are always plans. The US possesses plans to invade Russia; it doesn't mean they will be executed.

Some allowance should be made for this phobia. The US is precisely the same, has the same phobia, though it has never been invaded. What was the Cuba crisis about if not that?

But off Johnson goes, willy-waving, when he has no capability of achieving anything, other than raising more xenophobia in UK

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 20:29 utc | 47

The Financial Empire wants to create a division between China & Russia. Here comes Empire’s good cop the EU (The Franco-German initiative) with its carrot/bribe...

Germany and France seek EU-Russia meeting for reviving relations with Russia.
Topics would include climate, the environment, the Arctic, cross-border co-operation, health, space, the fight against terrorism and foreign policy areas including Syria and Iran. 

“Germany and France have called for a new EU strategy of closer engagement with Russia to build on discussions with Moscow in the wake of US president Joe Biden’s Geneva summit with Vladimir Putin.”

Russia needs to demand end to hostilities in its neighborhood and expose reality.

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 20:35 utc | 48

Tom_Q_Collins @40--

If a Russian live-fire drill was occurring, there'd have been a notice to mariners declaring such and detailing the area to be avoided. With interceptions, the tools being used are always armed in case those arms need to be employed during the interception. The reality of what occurred within Ukraine and how it was to be employed against Russia is well known to Russians, especially the Military, and they hold no illusions. NATO to them is a dangerous, belligerent enemy that like the Nazis before it aims to destroy Russia as that's its sole reason for existing. Note what the Brits said: They were sailing in Ukrainian waters. Maybe Russia ought to help Ireland free itself of UK colonialism and help Scotland regain its independence.

Provoke a bear enough and it will attack and kill you. The S-500 series of ABM and Anti-Air batteries are scheduled to be deployed this summer. They're to be closely followed by the S-600. IMO, once these systems are deployed to augment the already very formidable S-400, S-300, and Pantsir systems, Russia will effectively become a No-Fly Zone capable of launching a First Strike. Future Russian rulers won't be as diplomatic and as impervious to fluster as Putin; and given such potential might be tempted to teach NATO a lesson. But then if I were NATO, I'd have folded up shop back in 1992.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 20:38 utc | 49

@ Laguerre (#47), please get real.

“They have a phobia about being invaded from the West.... it doesn't mean they will be executed.” The Financial Empire doesn’t need to invade Russia. It wants to capture and control Russia through its money, privatization and culture. Russia has been betrayed many times in the last century (1917, 1947, 1991, 2008, 2012, 2013, 2020...) by the Empire. Why?

How does this Financial Empire controls the U$A?

Reality trumps delusions!

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 20:45 utc | 50

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 20:38 utc | 49

The official Russian statement (if Jerusalem Post can be believed) is that four high-explosive fragmentation bombs were dropped "in the British destroyer's path."

One must assume that this means those bombs were dropped between the HMS Defender (ironic name in this case) and the Crimean coastline while the ship was bearing in that direction. If a live fire exercise had been happening much closer to the Russian naval port, would that necessarily have been advertised? What I'm getting at is that I could have been wrong in thinking it was a busy shipping channel within which this incident occurred and instead it was well within Russia's claimed territorial waters and near a naval base where such exercises are probably conducted regularly. Even the BBC reporter didn't say that any bomb explosions were heard and the audio of his phoned in report only had sounds of far off artillery fire and jets buzzing the ship*.

I still think both sides are being a little coy with this, but perhaps new and more detailed information will surface proving the exactitude of one account over the other.

*Note: neither of b's links to this report are working right now. The article has no mention of a BBC report (or the warship incident) and the Twitter post with the audio has apparently been taken down, so I am relying on this link:

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 23 2021 20:50 utc | 51

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 20:45 utc | 50

That's your theory. Others might not agree.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 20:53 utc | 52

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 23 2021 20:50 utc | 51

Sorry it's late and I'm not functioning perfectly here.

What I meant to say is that I think it's possible that if Russian planes dropped any bombs it was well inside the nominal naval zone around the port in Crimea and just so happened to be in the same path as the British destroyer had been bearing. We know for a fact (assuming no AIS malfeasance) where the HMS Defender was, so that's not at issue - it's just that it's possible, given the lack of reported explosions by the BBC reporter or any other source - that any HEF bombs dropped from Russian planes were well away from the Defender at the time they were deployed.

I'm not a Defender, pun intended, of what the sLimeys (h/t Gruff) were doing, just noticing that some of the alleged happenings are lacking any substantial backing at this time.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 23 2021 20:58 utc | 53

@ Laguerre (#52),

Your cockamamie opinion is propaganda. Deceivers decay to defeat!

Time will tell... “In God We Trust”

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 21:01 utc | 54

offtopic,, overt is the new covert

Posted by: thro-way | Jun 23 2021 21:03 utc | 55

UK's intention was to sail its warship in Russian waters, claiming that they are still Ukraine waters, and then brag about it. The US has been doing that for years against China, and China merely protests or maybe does an intercept. But Russia went to max force. You're in our waters and we will expend ordnance.
No doubt that China is watching its partner Russia, and may up its game in the South China Sea accordingly.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 23 2021 21:14 utc | 56

The whole point of this affair was Johnson willy-waving. I don't know whether the US was advised in advance, though the reports say no. Why bother when it can have no effect? The answer can only be that it suits UK internal politics. Johnson's position is beginning to go badly, not yet visibly. It needs some foreign policy support.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 21:16 utc | 57

...."Russian Defense Ministry views the dangerous actions of the Royal Navy Destroyer as a blatant violation of the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. The Russian military ministry called on the British side to conduct a thorough investigation of the HMS Defender crew for prevention of similar incidents in the future."...

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 18:56 utc | 27

The smartness of that response is it allows the British to save face and not have any teeth kicked in.

As far as military honours go, I think the crew of the destroyer deserve some kind of medal (always cheaper than improvements in wages and conditions).

re:Posted by: Donny Matter | Jun 23 2021 19:14 utc | 30

I think military all over the world are having "enhanced exercises" that are way more engaging than normal training activities.

Posted by: tucenz | Jun 23 2021 21:22 utc | 58

Tom_Q_Collins @51--

If a nation's to abide by the Law of the Seas, then it must issue such a warning to mariners. Our local USCG does so all the time in print and via radio transmission even though the Outlaw US Empire isn't a party to that Treaty. Also, most gunnery and related exercise areas are marked on charts--paper and electronic--to reduce the possibility of an accident. Specific restricted waters are also noted on charts.

I see this incident as yet another in a long line of provocations, with another likely tomorrow, although perhaps in another region. The Guns, Germs and Steel advantage the West had 500+ years ago is no longer and the developing world is pushing back, albeit in a kinder, gentler manner. The Anglos's refusal to yield to the forces of history are rooted in their past as Anglo elite view themselves as Herculean characters fighting to defeat the never ending regrowth of the public as an anthropomorphized Hydra. More on that can be learned by reading The Many Headed Hydra, with genocide being actively promoted as the favored policy to deal with the presumed threat.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 21:25 utc | 59

@ Laguerre 57
Of course we don't know, and you may be right about Johnson, but I believe it was probably under US orders. At the very least it had US concurrence.
US military leaders are driven to put Russia down, especially under Biden and the Dems, and they need palpable events to show that they're on the job. They will even try to twist this failure into some anti-Russian propaganda. . .See, Russia is getting more belligerent!

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 23 2021 21:35 utc | 60

Tom Tegendhat MP was on the BBC just now decrying the forcible change of borders in Crimea/Ukraine. He cited the 1945 treaties establishing the sanctity of international borders. Apparently this expert doesn't know what country Crimea was part of in 1945. Or, rather, he is just confident very, very few listeners here in the UK will know.

The program was:

Posted by: HillWalker | Jun 23 2021 21:38 utc | 61

“In God We Trust”

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 21:01 utc | 54

The American obsession with religion is well known, though Putin is also a believer. The basic facts here are clear: Johnson demanded a violation of commonly required constrictions in order to prove that he is, in some sense, "brave". However there is no evidence, that the argument works with his public.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 21:40 utc | 62

The official line of government spokesmen on the BBC is that anything contradicting their "no shots fired" line is Russian Disinformation, of which there is so much. The reporter aboard is dismissed as "I'm sure he reported what he thought he heard, but only the Captain and XO on the Bridge know what really happened." Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

Posted by: HillWalker | Jun 23 2021 21:51 utc | 63

HillWalker @61--

Nor was there any mention of Kosovo, Serbia or Albania, I'll bet. Then there's Partition and the Balfour Declaration, just two other examples of Imperialist criminality from an overtopped barrel full of them, of which Northern Ireland is yet another. I know it's not China's or Russia's style, but an Anti-Anglo campaign has great historical justification.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 21:52 utc | 64

@ Laguerre (#62),

You aren’t comprehending clearly the crux of my comment. In my comment (#50) I clearly defined the context and the topic that was devoid of reality. Please comprehend clearly and stay on the context and subject matter. I wasn’t referring to anything about Johnson but Russia. No distortion & digression.

There is no point in further discussion. Please move on.

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 21:54 utc | 65

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 23 2021 21:35 utc | 60

Of course you may be right. I find it somewhat curious that the US abandoned its deployment of warships into the Black Sea, but the UK continued. Was this by agreement?

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 21:55 utc | 66

Fake - no vids of incident.

Posted by: Tikus Agram | Jun 23 2021 21:57 utc | 67

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 21:54 utc | 65

Your comment @50 was incomprehensible. Perhaps you could start by explaining what you mean.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 22:01 utc | 68

If people could at least please read what b wrote before they comment then they might avoid some foolish mistakes (been there and done that).

Only a suggestion :)

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 23 2021 22:02 utc | 69

Posted by: Tikus Agram | Jun 23 2021 21:57 utc | 67

BBC admitted it.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 22:02 utc | 70

Some context: Johnson's party just lost a by-election in a safe seat to the Lib Dems, the UK's (distant) third party. He is in trouble at home, best have a nice jingoistic distraction. Ironically, Jingoism derives from a song in the Music Halls in the run-up to the Crimea war. "We don't want to fight, but by Jingo, if we do, we've got the ships, we've got the men, the money too…" Alas, all is changed, changed utterly. Except Sevastopol is still Russian.

Posted by: HillWalker | Jun 23 2021 22:02 utc | 71

Posted by: HillWalker | Jun 23 2021 22:02 utc | 71

you're right

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 23 2021 22:07 utc | 72

Zakharova about the incident:

London has lost its manners. I would like to advise our British partners: next time you want to "come in peacefully", knock at the door.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 23 2021 22:14 utc | 73

Anyone here from the navy who can formulate how a implying order sounds like to "get off course for a few hundred meters"?

Posted by: Military | Jun 23 2021 22:25 utc | 74

How to deal with these irresponsible idiots?

1- Torpedo the ship's propellers

2- Notify the crew to stand down, or the next exchange will be a hypersonic missile straight to the command deck, followed by one to the Admiralty in London for those ordering this imbecilic provocation

3- Tow the ship into port, arrest all sailors and let them rot in Siberian jails to remind Westerners to never take Russian patience for granted again.

WTF is a British ship sailing inside Russian waters, just a few kms from their Black Sea Fleet HQ??? The Black Sea is a dead end geographically, perhaps it's time to teach NATO it is also militarily.

Posted by: Et Tu | Jun 23 2021 22:41 utc | 75

Can anyone say to what extent, if any, this reaction by Russia represents an escalation over previous actions?

We've spoken often here about how thinly escalation can be sliced, and this strikes me as one thin slice of raising the level of action.

Of course, it matters what nationality the transgressor is. In my non-military mind, one can ram a Ukrainian vessel (already happened) and it counts for less than firing live munitions (which I think is a first, but don't know) across the bow of a UK vessel. In the same way, an incident with a US vessel would be an entire order of magnitude greater in terms of weight of escalation.

So, I'm wondering in a non-expert way what the weight of this action is compared with previous actions. Any thoughts?


I will say that I welcome the Brits providing the provocations in the Black Sea. I have long thought that a UK ship could be sunk - for just cause - and the US would do nothing to help, while the UK would wake up to the fact that it too can do nothing.

On a cultural note about insults and bluster - the English have a peculiar trait of believing that words are not fighting talk. They have a propensity to insult without thinking that they can be struck physically for their abuse. Words of bullying and insult are perceived as winning actions in themselves. This all comes, I think, from their privileged schools where bullying down the pecking order, and groveling up the chain of rank, is instilled.

And in that vein, I am just waiting for the Brits to cross a line without quite realizing it - believing that their indignation alone would provide a shield. They would be the perfect strategic force to take that punch in the mouth we all know is coming somewhere, sometime, to someone.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 23 2021 22:44 utc | 76

Makes me want to bust out my 6th Fleet boardgame.

It seems like the West is planning an incremental encroachment in the region via a Ukranian navy, with possibly some very bold opening moves.

I imagine controlling Turkish waters is crucial for the West to do this, lest the Ukranian navy become isolated. It's a very tough spot for the Russian navy to be in, but it also seems like quite a hornets nest to enter for the West.

Stirring the pot before NATO exercises opens the gate to accidents or miscommunications during those wargames that could lead to further attempts by the West to bait an attack. I imagine something like, we got confused if it was a wargame or real combat, so we accidentally fired on the Russian ship/plane/land target.

Obviously the Russian strategists know this and many other possible scenarios that I'm not aware of, but hopefully they have some creative way of pushing back against such dangerous military posturing against them.

If I was a Russian naval strategist, I would find a cheap solution, like towing lines of buoys in the path of incurring ships and the buoys are all covered in adhesive which would stick on the hulls of ships and they have to dock for repairs. Some purely defensive solution that would cost a lot of time and money to deal with. This is effectively a cartoon plot, but the broad idea is there to discourage invading ships.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Jun 23 2021 22:50 utc | 77

@ Posted by: HillWalker | Jun 23 2021 22:02 utc | 71

But the whole point of Brexit was to revamp the UK's foreign policy. In this context, an incursion into the Black Sea antagonizing Russia is a logical consequence.

Posted by: vk | Jun 23 2021 22:53 utc | 78

Nothing that a single Bastion could not clean up.

Posted by: Kizs | Jun 23 2021 22:54 utc | 79

Inspired by Laguerre:



Willy Wave


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 23 2021 23:04 utc | 80

Tikus Agram @67--

Confirmation that you're a lying troll. You can be certain the MoD will have footage showing the bombing part.

Zakharova's retort's superb!

Grieved @76--

I's say the dropping of bombs was a new "slice." Your last paragraph is what my musing @49 was all about. The UK sub base on the Clyde would be my target choice.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 23:10 utc | 81

"I think it's fair to say that the United States has no better partner, no better friend in the world than Germany," Blinken said. He is scheduled to meet with Chancellor Angela Merkel and Foreign Minister Heiko Maas.
UK will understand it very well. Both UK and USA are maritime nations, and a sailor has a wife in every port. Thus such patter is expected "in every port".

Truly astonishing was a vote in UN to condemn USA sanctions against Cuba. Two countries voted against: USA and Israel. What happened to Palau, Northern Marianas and United States of Micronesia?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 23 2021 23:13 utc | 82

The Brits are horrified by Merkel and Macron turning to Russia as a replacement to the Brexited UK. Trump's promises of a UK US trade deal is fading away. Without the US the UK will have to turn to Asia for trading partners. But Asia is dominated by China that the UK hate as much as they hate Russia.
They only course is to sabotage any Russia EU rapprochement as well as EU USA rapprochement. This will be done by helping Russia enemies to be become more threatening and to encourage NATo in this direction. Plus mini dramas : Navalny, novichok Season 2 etc...
As they are losing they will be become more daring to provoke confrontation that will trigger NATO intervention.
Putin and Lavrov are no fools and Bo Johnson is not in a good shape politically..

Posted by: Virgile | Jun 23 2021 23:16 utc | 83

@ Laguerre 66
I find it somewhat curious that the US abandoned its deployment of warships into the Black Sea
Who knows -- but we do know that the US Navy warships have crew shortages, on some ships up to fifteen percent, which creates overworked crew members with low morale. Also the ships have maintenance problems.
The way DOD is set up, the combatant commanders, e.g. CENTCOM, put heavy requirements on the services to provide excessive military/naval presence in their areas.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 23 2021 23:19 utc | 84

My target choice would be the city.

And also the rothschild palace.

New york with an emphasis on manhattan, wall street.

Posted by: carlD | Jun 23 2021 23:20 utc | 85

Ironically, Jingoism derives from a song in the Music Halls in the run-up to the Crimea war. Posted by: HillWalker | Jun 23 2021 22:02 utc | 71

Sir, you are only partially correct. According to Merriam-Webster Dictionary online

Jingoism originated during the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-1878, when many British citizens were hostile toward Russia and felt Britain should intervene in the conflict. Supporters of the cause expressed their sentiments in a music-hall ditty with this refrain:

We don't want to fight, yet by jingo if we do,
We've got the ships, we've got the men,
We've got the money, too!

To the dismay of jingoist that year, United Kingdom did not fight there. Perhaps to busy chasing Zulu or imposing a Protectorate somewhere else.

Here is a more authoritative commentary on British navy and British democracy.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 23 2021 23:40 utc | 86

You guys are living in a dead paradigm. The fake pandemic has revealed that the conflicts between nation states are now mere theatrics, and may have been so for some time. The elites of the world work together behind the scenes. Why does B try to ignore this and cling to his old outdated narratives while a new era of fascism takes over in Germany and beyond? No wonder his website is getting fewer and fewer views. Sad to see though. I have been coming here for many years but now can't post under my old name.

Posted by: Ex-Barfly | Jun 23 2021 23:48 utc | 87

HillWalker @ 71, Laguerre @ 72:

Jingoistic distraction? Here it is: "Strong Britain, Great Nation"

You'd have thought someone in the British government could have hired Paul McCartney or that Swedish fellow Max Martin who wrote the music industry's entire output of No 1 hits in the last 20 years to write the new national anthem. But no, even there the UK govt is sooo mingy.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 24 2021 0:53 utc | 88

@ 86 piotr - here is a full lyric sheet with a button you can click to hear a fellow playing the song too.. thanks for drawing my attention to it..

@ 88 jen.. that is some whacked out deranged video their, straight from bizarro land... who made that? lol..

Posted by: james | Jun 24 2021 1:23 utc | 89

Being just the day after the 80th anniversary of the last invasion of Russia, this was an especially craven move by the Brits, although I have come to see that they hate Russia more than anyone save possibly the Poles. So many of the last five years' provocations were orchestrated by the Brits, with their targets usually being soft targets like athletes and World Cup attendees, Donbass civilians, and Trump--anyone who they fear might lend value and prestige to Russia. Pretty pathetic, really, but as much as they are a lap dog of the US, in these respects (like Israel) they manage to wag the dog when they really want to.

I believe about a year ago Russia and China decided that their tactics of waiting for the Empire to run out of steam had paid all the dividends it was going to pay, and that the loonies running the show in the US (and their pets) are actually too naive, stupid, and arrogant to treat like adults, and that the US or one of their barely controlled shit-stirrers is going to keep pushing until they are punched in the mouth (as William Gruff correctly advocates). I think Russia decided most recently in the Donbass, and I think had that fired off Russia was going to be specifically looking to kill as many Anglo "advisers" as they could (and I think the US military realized this and insisted the CIA/State Dept neocon faction call off their operation).

For the Brits to pull this stunt at the commencement of the NATO exercises was particularly stupid--it greatly increases the chance that a genuinely innocent mistake could be mis-read by Russia. But maybe it's for the best, as Grieved says, that it may well be a British warship that is sent to the bottom. Everyone will raise hell, but nothing will be done, except that a genuine lesson might finally have been learned.

Posted by: J Swift | Jun 24 2021 1:25 utc | 90

Thank you, again.
I believe geopolitics is b’s wheelhouse, and it’s why I drink here.
Also, the level of commentary on geopolitical issues in the bar can be outstanding at times.
Many thanks to the very knowledgeable and erudite commentators.

The bar seems to rise and fall depending on the post topic,
and I’m glad that b has recently refocused on, imo, his forte.

Posted by: Cadence Calls | Jun 24 2021 1:29 utc | 91

If ONLY Putin the Pussy had showed he has actual balls and NOT let Ukraine fall, NONE of this will be happening right now. Too bad.
No matter what anyone says, you KNOW I am right. But Putin the Pussy chose NOT to confront USA because he was afraid he will lose business back in 2014. Russia will cry bloody tears over Ukraine in the future.

Posted by: Hoyeru | Jun 24 2021 1:55 utc | 92

@ 92 hoyeru... lets see if i confront your bullshit how it works out... what planet do you live on hoyeru? the one where might makes right and the only way to resolve things is thru confrontation?? is that what you think?? personally i don't really give a fuck because as i see it you are full of shit and say the same stupid thing on a regular basis... but out of curiousity - what if anything do you have to say for yourself?? probably nothing is my guess..

Posted by: james | Jun 24 2021 1:59 utc | 93

If Russia in 2014 had been the issuer of the world's reserve currency and/or had been autochthonic to the point of not needing SWIFT or any foreign trade with the West, she might have been in a position to liberate and subsidize the economic black hole that is the Ukraine. But Putin the Practical knew better. He doesn't, after all, think like an American.

Posted by: corvo | Jun 24 2021 2:05 utc | 94

this is how you start a nuclear war.


I am assuming that Russia will very mightily beef up all its forces in the Crimea region - and for good reason. the US has a bunch of dumb s**ts running foreign and military policy, but the Brits are even dumber and stupider, and worst of all, more reckless.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jun 24 2021 2:15 utc | 95

Biden's faction or backers want to quieten down other fronts so they can concentrate on taking China down. Will be plenty of rabid Russia haters in the US don't want that. Britain is the backbone of the hate Russia industry. Also like an old prostitute putting on makeup. Past glories to uphold.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 24 2021 2:31 utc | 96

When the Soviet Union collapsed the West dutifully began their campaign to encircle Russia and knock off its international allies through war, color revolutions, and stirring up Muslim revolutionaries. It has been going on for decades very successfully and very slowly. Of course, it was not hard to stir the bitter hatred of those old Stalinst days in nations of Eastern Europe. The promise of Western treats is very enticing.

The knife is now cutting close to the heart of Russia and it is time in the near term for the Russians to put a stop to this madness or it will continue right into the heart of their system. Nordstream and trade with Germany is a great step to defuse the burning fuse. I truly believe the Russians want to be left alone and partner with the US and Europe on their own terms. That is just not acceptable to the West.

It is at the point where a simple false flag of a Western Warship blown to pieces (remember the Maine) or fraudulently attacked like the Gulf of Tonkin could start the real blasting but I do not think the populaces minds are right yet.

Here in the US people are tired of War. We will need many more freedom of navigation incidents for that to happen. The get Russia propaganda has been effective but not to the point of War yet.

Posted by: circumspect | Jun 24 2021 2:40 utc | 97

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 23 2021 22:44 utc | 76

I guess you're quoting Mike Tyson:

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

I've recently seen another one from him that seems truly apt for the current situation:

Social Media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it.

Posted by: Not-Ex-Barfry | Jun 24 2021 2:44 utc | 98

MH17, I had originally thought was a US ploy, but a lot of stuff points to Britain. I think Britain pulled that stunt, no doubt coordinated with factions in the US, and it was enough to tip the balance in the US - to force the US into action who then put pressure on the Euro vassals.
Where the US oligarchy is a bit divided, not much of an incident is required by perfidious albion to tip the balance.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 24 2021 2:52 utc | 99

as its treatment of Putin at the G7 summit shows, part of the job of the BBC is to manufacture the news where there is none and/or to fan the flames. why else is this BBC reporter there?

the nationalist shitbags in the West need a harsh reminder that self-defense is an absolute right. but it is not a good sign for the world that they are getting this reminder from the Russian military and not from their own citizens stringing these warmongering bastards up by their necks. the working class, above all in the US, cannot rely on Russia or China's military to do its job.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2021 3:01 utc | 100

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