Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 20, 2021

The MoA Week In Review - OT 2021-047

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Other issues:


Paktﻯawal @Paktyaw4l - 11:52 UTC · Jun 19, 2021
Scenes from across Afghanistan. Losing count of how many Afghan soldiers & militiamen have surrendered, registered and subsequently released. The level of surrender is unprecedented. The U.S. & NATO haven’t completed their withdrawal yet. Via @RisboLensky
Dr. Drexluddin Khan Spiveyzai Kayani (Drexy Baba) - @RisboLensky - 7:16 UTC · Jun 20, 2021
#Taliban in Chahar Bolak base. Everything was relinquished to #IEA forces. From vehicles to weapons #Balkh #Afghanistan
Another howitzer left behind. Now #Taliban can form their first artillery units. They have ammo for them and trucks for transport #Balkh #Afghanistan
Tariq Ghazniwal @TGhazniwal - 12:00 UTC · Jun 20, 2021
- Khanqah and Faizabad districts of #Jawzjan province conquered
- Taliban also captured #Darqad district of #Takhar province.
- Also Taliban captured the ninth district's of Maimana, the capital city.
- Also Taliban captured the Lolash district of #Faryab province.



Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on June 20, 2021 at 14:00 UTC | Permalink

« previous page

Here is an article that demonstrates the decadence and utter corruption of the US political system:

Posted by: Paul | Jun 22 2021 1:07 utc | 101

As American educational institutions continue to be called into question, a North Korean defector fears the United States' future "is as bleak as North Korea" after she attended one of the country's most prestigious universities.

Yeonmi Park has experienced plenty of struggle and hardship, but she does not call herself a victim.

One of several hundred North Korean defectors settled in the United States, Park, 27, transferred to Columbia University from a South Korean university in 2016 and was deeply disturbed by what she found.

"I expected that I was paying this fortune, all this time and energy, to learn how to think. But they are forcing you to think the way they want you to think," Park said in an interview with Fox News. "I realized, wow, this is insane. I thought America was different but I saw so many similarities to what I saw in North Korea that I started worrying."

Those similarities include anti-Western sentiment, collective guilt and suffocating political correctness.

Posted by: Mao | Jun 22 2021 3:12 utc | 102

Reports Mexico and Argentina have recalled their ambassadors from Nicaragua and sided with the Yanquis in the ongoing Color Revolution! What an utter betrayal at a time when the left seemed to be recovering in Latin America. The Yanquis will not reward them, they will see this for what it is: weakness. Imperialism will now redouble its efforts to bring Mexico and Argentina to heel.


Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Jun 22 2021 4:36 utc | 103

@ Max briefly about some concepts of finance going forward.

Money as medium of exchange I think will be different than money held as store of value.

China's Digital Yuan with expiration date is my example of medium of exchange with small exposure to currency manipulation.

Money as store of value hopefully will be what I have written about before, consisting of representative mix of "FOOD", commodities, precious metals and breadbasket of nations currencies.

I am not sure where national and state infrastructure bonds fit in the personal investment realm of the future nor investment in private companies.

I notice you seem to assume the continuation of private banking. Please tell me how that fits in a sane world at all.

I am very busy the next few days so this back and forth may die out but I appreciate ongoing communication about future social organization and finance policy/issues/solutions

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 22 2021 5:26 utc | 104

Looks like the good doctor Peter McCullough is going to the trenches...

50,000 dead?

Posted by: john | Jun 22 2021 7:12 utc | 105

Foreign Policy publishes "The Lab Leak Theory Doesn’t Hold Up
The rush to find a conspiracy around the COVID-19 pandemic’s origins is driven by narrative, not evidence."
By Justin Ling - June 15, 2021, 1:34 PM. Unfortunately their paywall prevents me accessing the content.

And on the same date Mike Whitney and Ron Unz publish a detailed chronological and circumstantial evidence soundly supported by historical behaviour.

In case you would like to take up Ron Unz offer for a free ebook, Our Covic-19 Catastrophe ~ click here.

Thank you Ron Unz.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 22 2021 8:08 utc | 106


I've archived it here:

Posted by: John Cleary | Jun 22 2021 8:15 utc | 107

Here it is, 80 years after the invasion Valdimir Putin writes a letter to Germany, published in Die Zeit:

A couple of paragraphs machine translated:

We are proud of the courage and steadfastness of the heroes of the Red Army and the workers at home, who not only defended the independence and dignity of their fatherland, but also saved Europe and the whole world from enslavement. Notwithstanding recent attempts to rewrite the chapters of the past, the truth is that the Soviet soldier did not set foot on German soil to take revenge on the Germans, but to fulfill his noble and great liberation mission. The memory of the heroes in the fight against Nazism is sacred to us. We thank the allies of the anti-Hitler coalition, the fighters of the Resistance and the German anti-fascists who brought the common victory closer.


The root cause of the increasing mutual distrust in Europe lay in the advance of the military alliance towards the east, which incidentally began with the fact that the Soviet leadership was de facto persuaded to agree to the unified Germany joining NATO. The verbal promises made back then according to the motto "This is not directed against you" or "The block boundaries will not come close to you" were all too quickly forgotten. The precedent was set.


Moreover, many countries were faced with an artificial choice - either to cooperate with the collective West or with Russia. In fact, this was an ultimatum. The consequences of this aggressive policy are clearly illustrated by the example of the Ukrainian tragedy of 2014. Europe actively supported the armed unconstitutional coup in Ukraine. It all started with that. What was that necessary for? The then incumbent President Viktor Yanukovych had already accepted all of the opposition's demands. Why did the USA organize this coup and the EU states support it without will and thus provoked the division within Ukraine and the exit of Crimea from the Ukrainian state?


I would like to emphasize once again: Russia is calling for the restoration of a comprehensive partnership with Europe. There are many topics of common interest: security and strategic stability, health and education, digitization, energy, culture, science and technology, solutions to climate and environmental problems.

The world is evolving dynamically and is constantly confronted with new challenges and threats. And we simply cannot afford to carry around the burden of previous misunderstandings, hurts, conflicts and mistakes. A burden that prevents us from solving current problems. We are convinced that we all have to admit and correct these mistakes. Our common and undisputed goal is to ensure the security of the continent without dividing lines and a unified space for equal cooperation and collective development in the interests of the prosperity of Europe and the whole world.


Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 8:23 utc | 108

Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Jun 22 2021 4:36 utc | 103

Mexico and Argentina abstained in the OAS condemnation of Nicaragua, which makes your conclusion of treason a little bit rushed. They're calling for dialog and assume a solid position for intermediaries in an open crisis. Good for them and their efforts to unify Spanish speaking America.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 8:31 utc | 109

Oops, it is fully and officially translated now:

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 8:38 utc | 110

John Cleary #107

hmmmm ~ server not found error after timeout.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 22 2021 8:55 utc | 111

Paco #117

Yay thanks for that. Sad that so many are overtly deaf and yet covertly hearing well what Putin and Lavrov are saying. They live in fear of the great satan still it seems.

Such is the great game.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 22 2021 8:58 utc | 112

Uncle, try again. Works fine for me

Posted by: John Cleary | Jun 22 2021 9:43 utc | 113

Just a small sample, no results, neither NYTimes, WaPo, Le monde, The Guardian, El País, none of them mention the 80th anniversary of the nazi attack on the Soviet Union, all of them talk about sanctioning Belarus, the very first front line and a country that lost a third of its population to the nazi attack.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” a Spanish guy said that.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 10:34 utc | 114

Don Bacon @67

Thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: Debz251 | Jun 22 2021 10:39 utc | 115

Very aggressive, desperate piece of propaganda:

With massive dams, China finds a weapon in water

The fact that the gorge is one of the world’s most biodiverse regions seems to be of little concern to the CPC, which is far more interested in being able to use water as a weapon against India, its Asian rival. China has already set the stage for construction, recently completing a highway through the canyon and announcing the start of high-speed train service to a military town near the gorge. This will enable the transport of heavy equipment, materials and workers to the remote region, which was long thought inaccessible because of its treacherous terrain.

The CPC views its centenary as cause for celebration. But the rest of the world should see the party for what it is: repressive, genocidal and environmentally rapacious. And it should prepare for what the CPC’s second century may bring.

What started as a "defensive border war" has escalated to a call for a war of conquest of the entire Tibet because of some "water wars" in Asia.

Indian Fascism is now evolving and they're already calling for a Hitlerian crusade against Communist China.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 13:05 utc | 116

Merkel got a 2nd jab of... Moderna... after her 1st jab of AstraZeneca.
It's mRNA or nothing in the new world.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 13:48 utc | 117

Interesting, on the relative efficiency of immunization via infection and via vaccine according to the various strains (bibliography at the end of the paper is in English)

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 14:02 utc | 118

Nice editing by the Sputniknews:

Boris Johnson Says Reports of Amazon Destroying Unused Products 'Indictment of Consumerist Society'

Study: Richest US Dynasties 'Hoard' Wealth Rather Than Generate It, Exacerbating Inequality

That's how capitalism works. It only checks for the differential of labor extracted at the end of a rotation (profit rate). Hence the dialectical process of extreme generation of wealth concomitant with extreme generation of misery.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 14:03 utc | 119

@ Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 13:48 utc | 117

This has nothing to do with mRNA. It's all political.

When Merkel took the first jab, the EU still had a contract with AstraZeneca. After the Brexit/AstraZeneca imbroglio, the EU broke up with AstraZeneca and sued it. Since the Chinese and Russian options were out of the table (for obvious political reasons), the only option left for Merkel's second jab was an American vaccine.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 14:06 utc | 120

karlof1 @Jun21 20:35 #89

I see this conflict not as a "Civilization War" (a term favored by psychohistorian) but as a war of elite legitimacy. In that context, elite hypocrisy is very relevant.

The "Confusion Enlightenment" that you tout didn't happen overnight. Thousands of years of Chinese civilization didn't prevent China from falling into a similar elite trap that the West has been suffering from. The Chinese needed a revolution in 1949 and later Deng's mini-revolution (re-introducing a form of capitalism).

Western elites, I fear, will learn all the wrong lessons from China's rise and implement only the aspects of the 'China-model' that suit them. I think that would be a disaster.

IMO Instead of shaming us into accepting more authoritarian measures (because ... Chinese success), our elites should be making us proud of the Western tradition by holding themselves accountable to the ideals of that tradition (in a way that is transparent and irreversible).


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 22 2021 14:13 utc | 121

vk @116

That is sad and pathetic. The Chinese know that water supplies in the region will become stressed, sometimes severely stressed, due to climate change. The Chinese are the only ones being proactive about the problem by setting up water management systems. The Indians won't even start thinking about severe water shortage mitigation plans until after millions of their countrymen die from the shortages. Will they thank the Chinese when the situation reaches crisis levels and they still have at least some water? Of course not. They will just complain that the Chinese are being stingy about the amount of water they release from the reservoirs.

Count on it.

The water shortage issues on the Indian subcontinent due to climate change are going to reach crisis levels that make the Covid pandemic seem like a pleasant walk in the park. This will happen in the lifetimes of readers here, even though many like me are up there in years. This problem gets far too little attention now but I guarantee our host will publish articles on it in the future as it will be a major geopolitical issue.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 22 2021 14:27 utc | 122

vk @Jun22 14:06 #120:

This has nothing to do with mRNA. It's all political.

I disagree. It has everything to do with mRNA which was funded by the US military.

China and Russia both quickly developed good vaccines with standard technologies (IIRC approved in Dec 2020). Development and approval of similar Western vaccines took much longer (IIRC J&J was approved in Feb 2021) and have been plagued with mysterious production problems and highly-publicized scares while reports of problems with mRNA vaccines has been ignored or played down.

mRNA vaccines constitute the vast majority of "vaccinations" in USA despite the fact that mRNA vaccines are much more difficult to handle and much less convenient to administer (requiring 2-shots). And I imagine that mRNA "vaccinations" will constitute a majority of those vaccinated in Europe as well.

This is an astounding turn-about for a technology that, less than two years ago, had great difficulty finding volunteers willing to test it.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 22 2021 14:35 utc | 123

@ Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 22 2021 14:35 utc | 123

Your hypothesis doesn't explain why Merkel took AstraZeneca (which is not mRNA) as her first dose.

Here's a very short and simplified history of the mRNA technology: it is a technology developed by the USG (i.e. public funded) in a lab in Pennsylvania during the 1990s. The objective was to develop a vaccine against AIDS. Initial research was promising, but eventually it stuck in a dead-end after some two decades.

Then, more than ten years later, all of a sudden, the mRNA was resuscitated to produce vaccines against the COVID-19. The first laboratory to come out with one was Moderna, which represents the privatization of the Pennsylvania research and, rumors say, Dr. Fauci is a founder and stakeholder.

The weird thing about mRNA is not that the technology isn't scientifically legitimate, but that it was shelved for more than a decade because it didn't show any progress and was suddenly revived and sold as a panacea to the COVID-19. Biological science is not hard science: sound theory doesn't automatically translate into sound application. You have to have decades of trials and refinement of manufacturing technology in order to make it work properly.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 14:48 utc | 124

vk @Jun22 14:48 #124

Your hypothesis doesn't explain why Merkel took AstraZeneca ...

No, that is easily explained. They allowed non-mRNA vaccines to be developed and produced (consistent with 'free markets') but the establishment did everything it could to preference the mRNA vaccines. We're not supposed to notice that preference . . . Merkel got AZ!

Here's a very short and simplified history of the mRNA technology ...

A history that conveniently leaves out Moderna's funding from US military. Such info is verboten because the establishment wants wide acceptance of mRNA.

The weird thing about mRNA is not that the technology isn't scientifically legitimate ...

I never said that it wasn't "scientifically legitimate". Those who are critical about the mRNA roll-out question its safety (unintended consequences) not the scientific basis.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 22 2021 15:17 utc | 125

@ psychohistorian (#104).

Instead of talking about solutions or new ideas, let’s first focus on the core problems with the existing monetary paradigm. What are the core challenges with regards to the monetary, economic and financial systems?

To clarify with regards to, “I notice you seem to assume the continuation of private banking. Please tell me how that fits in a sane world at all.” In the new paradigm, money creation and allocation are managed by the government institution, the Monetary Authority. Money ones in circulation, the private banking players enable its efficient management in the corporate sector for the overall well-being of the nation, in terms of competitive edge, technological capabilities and capacities, international trade... The public banking can play an active role in the state economics with regards to small businesses and infrastructure. China has a similar model. Please watch Eric Li’s conversations on YouTube. We need healthy competition in the banking arena between public banking and private banking. In the corporate banking arena, private banks, equity funds and venture capitalists are better suited to manage the industrial sphere. It will be good for the post offices to provide consumer banking services.

What role do you see the public banking playing?

Posted by: Max | Jun 22 2021 15:42 utc | 126

William Gruff @ #122
The problem of water management is resources are not used properly in India. It is always a natural disaster which cannot be compared with man made disaster of covid19. It is a fact that yearly several hundreds of people die due to floods inspite of disaster management because states are never in agreement over sharing of excess water in the rivers. They would fight for their rights of usage/storage and then allow it to drain excess water to sea rather than allow another state use it for agricultural purpose.

Posted by: R M Rao | Jun 22 2021 15:43 utc | 127

WHO suddenly is indicating jabs are not for children(dated 3 June 2021). Is it to escape the responsibility of results of compulsory jabs side effects or it had a sudden change of heart?
Anyway for the present children from 12-18 are saved provided nations listen to its advise.

Posted by: R M Rao | Jun 22 2021 15:51 utc | 128

Kremlin: Putin Informs Merkel About Results of Russia-US Summit

In their phone conversation, the Russian and German leaders also stressed the importance of preserving the historical memory of the tragic events of the Great Patriotic War.

Merkel expressed her feelings of empathy over the troubles and suffering caused by the war unleashed by the Nazis.

Vladimir Putin said that Russia appreciated the participation of Angela Merkel and Federal President Frank-Walter Steinmeier in commemorative events in Germany, the statement added.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 22 2021 16:57 utc | 129

Typepad appears to once again negate comments with links to The Saker, so I'll remove that and repost my comment.

Pepe Escobar provides the first balanced analysis of Raisi's election, which will eventually emerge from behind the Asia Times paywall at be republished at The Saker's, Zerohedge, and the other usual outlets. He emphasizes as I have that Iran's foreign policy is forged by the Supreme Leader, Kamenei:

"Yet foreign policy must follow Khamenei’s guidelines, which are very clear. Without understanding Khamenei’s worldview, any analysis of Iranian complexities is an idle sport....

"On the 40th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, Khamenei updated his concept of foreign policy as part of a clear map for the future [Link at original]. This is absolutely required reading to understand what Iran is all about."

Pepe then goes on to cite an analysis by Mansoureh Tajik, that first appeared at The Saker, which "emphasizes the ways the system strives for balance and justice. Khamenei could not be more straightforward when he writes":

"Today, the challenge for the US is Iran’s presence at the borders surrounding the Zionist regime and dismantling the illegitimate influence and presence of America from West Asia; the Islamic Republic’s defense of Palestinian fighters at the heart of the occupied territories; and defense of the holy flag of Hezbollah and the Resistance in the entire region.

"If, in those days, the West’s problem was preventing Iran from buying even the most primitive forms of arms for its defense, today its challenge is to prevent the Iranian arms, military equipment and drones from reaching Hezbollah and the Resistance everywhere in the region.

"If in those days, America imagined it can overcome the Islamic System and the Iranian nation with the help of a few self-selling Iranian traitors, today it is finding itself in need of a large coalition of tens of hostile yet impotent governments to fight Iran. Yet, it fails."

Pepe says Raisi will follow Khamenei's "Look East" policy, which I see as a combo of both East and North since the development of the International North-South Transportation Corridor (INSTC) figures prominently. It's quite likely that Raisi was demonized so greatly because he will be much better for Iran than Rouhani.

Along with the six educational links, Pepe prognosticates:

"So this is what the Raisi era is leading to: a more solid union of Iranian Shi’ism, socialism with Chinese characteristics and the Greater Eurasia Partnership. And it doesn’t hurt that state-of-the-art Russian military technology is quietly surveying the evolving chessboard."

Oh, as for the JCPOA, Raisi was quite clear tat his first post-election news conference:

"The US must immediately return to the JCPOA, whose terms Washington unilaterally violated, and lift all sanctions.

"The JCPOA negotiations in Vienna will proceed, but they will not be permitted to impose new conditions on Iran in terms of its future.

"The Iranian ballistic missile program is absolutely non-negotiable in the framework of the JCPOA, and will not be curbed."

Gee, where have I seen all that written before....

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 17:15 utc | 130

Australia's mouse plague, now expanded into three states, huge devastation, BBC video:

Posted by: Paul | Jun 22 2021 17:29 utc | 131

@karlof1 (#130), there is a big gap between rhetoric and reality. What are Iran’s core values and development themes? How is its socioeconomic system supporting human capital? Has the implementation phase of its development deal with China started?

What is the probability of Iran being attacked in the near future?

It seems like the Empire is playing a sophisticated game and thinks it can fool China, Russia and Iran (Non-$ Bloc). The key upcoming events are elections in Russia, Germany and Afghanistan withdrawal by September. Also, there is the 2022 Winter Olympics early next year.

A plausible scenario is for the Financial Empire to stage a conflict in Iran driving the oil prices high. Will this placate Russia? High oil prices ($100+) might result in a global recession, providing an excuse for the stock market correction and slowing down China’s growth. Also, this will result in higher demand for the US$. It plays to Empire’s advantage. The Empire will NEED its forces to be in Afghanistan as it likes to open multiple fronts with adversaries. It can further escalate with regards to Taiwan creating a quagmire for China. In this scenario, China’s economy is slowed, global demand for its products falls, its Iran partner gone and Taiwan becomes a trouble spot. What will China and Russia do?

What are other plausible future scenarios? Time will tell...

Posted by: Max | Jun 22 2021 17:31 utc | 132

Paco @108 & 110--

Thanks very much for providing those links to Putin's essay, which I've yet to read.

Jackrabbit @121--

We're not as far apart in our assessment of China as it might seem on the surface. As the Chinese themselves acknowledge, they've experienced a continuous struggle to erect a workable system of governance for China since the Opium Wars torpedoed the previous dynastic system and rendered it useless to defend China from the Imperialist aggressors. So, the overall Chinese Revolution as an ongoing project began in the 1840s, a fact finally seen and accepted by serious Scholars of China, within China and the West. That truism is why Xi at the CPC's 100th Anniversary is emphasizing the need to closely examine the past, and to look beyond the 100 years and study the rise of the West. IMO, I don't see the Chinese becoming more authoritarian, particularly when compared with past Chinese history. And of course the West is greatly befuddled because it's never faced the sort of competition that the entire Arc of Resistance now supply. It would be far more pragmatic and profitable to join the Arc instead of trying to regain hegemony.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 17:35 utc | 133

AZ is still administered in some EU countries. But UK yesterday was talking about the 3rd AZ jab for all this autumn. So Merkel took a shortcut.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 17:43 utc | 134

mRNA vaccines is not a new panacea; it has been hoped to be the miracle therapy for cancer
thus, let's not spare the chance of massive experimentation

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 17:47 utc | 135

@ Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 17:47 utc | 135

Yes, there was also hope (hype?) that mRNA would also revolutionize gene therapy in order to treat/cure cancer and even some other genetic diseases.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 17:51 utc | 136

Max @132--

There are several outstanding articles/essays Escobar links to in his article. Here he says:

"On the 40th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, Khamenei updated his concept of foreign policy as part of a clear map for the future. This is absolutely required reading to understand what Iran is all about."

Here's the link to that 2+ year old essay. I suggest bookmarking Khamenei's website and Twitter, which will make it easier to stay informed.

As for the price of oil, it will continue to rise as demand increases and supply wanes. The ability to "fill the supply gap" has ended with the failure to mine more oil using dollars as the always doomed fracking ponzi scheme goes bust. That scheme played a massive role in the destruction of companies specializing in deep offshore oil drilling that will likely never recover, thus negating the exploitation of the last genuine oil supply realm, such as that of Brazil's. The energy price inflation occurring within the Outlaw US Empire was predicted by me back around the 2020 election. Here it's risen 65% since then. Becoming "Energy Independent" was always a BigLie promoted by the Outlaw US Empire to its citizenry as the only time any organism becomes independent of the need for energy is when it dies. The further development of energy sources is key to attaining the sustainable, steady-state economy the future will demand.

There's a great deal to learn. I suggest discovering what the two leading developing nations--Russia and China--are planning to do along with the organizations they're affiliated with--SCO, EAEU, ASEAN, CSTO, BRI, etc.--if you really want to be informed. And it's work, the degree of difficulty being related to the amount of prior knowledge one has acquired.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 18:07 utc | 137

Biden and his handlers, outgunned in Geneva, John Helmer,

Posted by: Paul | Jun 22 2021 18:17 utc | 138

Rats!!! My entire comment to Max @132 is lost thanks to Typepad's censorship of two links it contained, and I'm not going to rewrite having already spent well over an hour on it. Sorry Max!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 18:18 utc | 139

Paul @131

Too bad Australia doesn't have more cats.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 22 2021 19:03 utc | 140

@Paco 110
Yes, thanks for the link. Those who want the German text but do not want the transatlantic propaganda outlet "Die Zeit" gain ad clicks, the essay is available here too:

The German officialdom widely embarrassed itself. The parliament (Bundestag) refused an official memorial, only the parliament faction of the party "Die Linke" had a memorial in the Bundestag yesterday evening. The Greens as always sided with Ukrainian fascists, their party head Annalena Baerboeck a few weeks before embarrased herself by asserting her grandfather, soldier of the Nazi Wehrmacht, had fought "for the reunification of Europe" in Winter of 1945 (this was mere incompetence rather than vile though).

At least, President Steinmeier held a very dignified speech at the Russian-German museum at Berlin-Karlshorst, the site of the Nazi surrender at dan pobedy May 9, 1945. The Nazu Ukraine ambassador Melnyk had complained about and refused to join the ceremony, well, that way it was not defecated by the presence of a Banderite cheering the monster Bandera, the Jews mass murderer of Lemberg, where his thugs bestially murdered 4000 alone in a few days from June 22, 1941 on. following written plans and orders of the OUN leadership.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 22 2021 19:27 utc | 141

Outlaw US Empire seizes Iranian website domains. Ho hum, just another crime chalked up by those running the Empire. They really want the curtain of a Cold War to descend. Should they be given what they want?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 19:36 utc | 142

This is a link in Alistair Crooke's latest piece at Strategic Culture.

Due to US law preventing gain of function research, The US outscored this to the Wuhan lab. The US were involved in this research and The Wuhan lab appears to have been the leading research center into bat corona viruses. WHO, in looking into the origins of SARS-COV-2 have rulked out that lab as the source. An Australian who was part of that WHO mission wrote an article for and was published by our government mouthpiece - Australian Broadcasting Commission, in which he stated that they had thoughrouly checked the Wuhan lab as a possible source and ruled it out.
The information from research at that lab would have quickly made its way through to the man Pentagon bio weapons labs that are scattered around the world.
Until recently, domestic strains of livestock and plants have always been developed simply through selective breeding. Using the only the original genes, strains are eventual created that look nothing like the original wild animal or plant. With plants and animals this takes sometime as it is generally a year or more for selected strains to reproduce.
Bacteria, viruses reproduce on a far shorter time scale, and a suspect strains can be developed through selective breeding of the original stock without the need to slice and splice.

The covid pandemic comes at a time when US are trying to split east from west, isolate Russia and China. During the sars outbreak the US and UK employed strict quarantine measures and the outbreak was contained and defeated.
With covid, although there was plenty of advance warning, no resumes to contain the outbreak were taken. This disease is fatal mainly to those who could be cal;led useless eaters, those with pre-existing medical problems and those of pension age who may have to rely on perhaps depleted pension funds. The US has never had a problem killing its own as an incentive for its people to go to war. Breaking with china will create far great hardship for American people. Over half a million, mostly of the useless eater class now dead in the US.
As Madeleine Albright said- The deaths of 500,000 children was worth it.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 22 2021 19:47 utc | 143

Peter, you get it right. 60, 000 ppl in Budapest stadium last week and soon the same in Wembley. Lots of them travelling back to the four corners of the planet.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 21:12 utc | 144

@karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 19:36 utc | 141

How pathetic by the wannabe Empire. It signals their moral and logic bankruptcy.

This works

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 22 2021 21:52 utc | 145

@karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 19:36 utc | 141

How pathetic by the wannabe Empire. It signals their moral and logic bankruptcy. I posted this before and linked to the iranian presstv site that actually works, but the Empire probably didn't like that and removed my post.

Therefore, assemble the URL yourself and go to presstv dot ir, it still works.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 22 2021 21:55 utc | 146

@william gruff, sorry for the delay but i answered to your earlier questino in the 'putin teaches' thread.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 22 2021 22:07 utc | 147

Norwegian @144--

Thanks for your reply! Seems a lot of website interference is happening today beyond the usual.

Peter AU 1 @142--

Yes, the first SARS outbreak prompted immediate reactions by NATO-Bloc nations and it went away rapidly as a comment here recently noted. Then we have the planned non-response response by Trump and the NATO-Bloc followed by the China Did It meme that's being pursued to the ends of the planet along with the Xinjiang Genocide herring as "Trump's" efforts to decouple and otherwise retard China's development failed grandly. Mixed in this mess is the Afghan debacle and the very heavy domestic baggage it's generated. Complicating affairs more are the shifting alliances within the Persian Gulf region that Jay mentions in his article, which omits Iran's peace negotiations. I also read a report that Biden was moving more Patriot systems out of the Gulf region which has added to the mistrust Jay mentions.

What I hope independent-minded EU nations will now do is chart their own foreign policy and commercial courses that link to the Eurasian Bloc as it becomes ever clearer that the EU doesn't work for the interests of European nations and is subordinate to the diktats of the Outlaw US Empire. But the window for making independent moves is closing.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 22:29 utc | 148

Re: karlof1 @141

PressTV itself thinks this may have actually been a hack. Perhaps it is a psyop to press the buttons of those who do not buy absurd official narratives and get us jumping up and down making fools of ourselves as usual.

Posted by: William Haught | Jun 22 2021 23:14 utc | 149

@ Max | Jun 22 2021 15:42 utc | 126 who asked what I think the role is of public banking and who writes of support for ongoing private banking in some sort of "competition" with public banks.

So do you support the BIS remaining private where I emphatically don't? Do you see private banking in any way being involved with foreign exchange between sovereign nations?

If private banks are allowed to factor out loans, aren't they creating money? I think your definition of how the various forms of money/value are created needs work.

In my world, public banking is a core part of the system of governance and is the focal point for risk management and resource allocation decisions. I think it counter productive to society to let a cabal of inherited private finance folk have a seat at the table of global risk management and resource allocation and it disturbs me that you seem to think private finance in our society has some socially redeeming qualities....

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2021 1:00 utc | 150

Breaking news: US government seizes Press TV website and others.

I assume the State Department wanted to sabotage the talks.


Posted by: Paul | Jun 23 2021 3:01 utc | 151

Below is a short posting from Xinhuanet that is the first I have seen China talking about Fort Detrick and over 200 U.S. bio-labs overseas in a press release...more clear push back

BEIJING, June 22 (Xinhua) -- The United States is in no position to blackmail or coerce China, nor does it have the right to represent the international community to attack and slander China over coronavirus origin tracing, a Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson said Tuesday.

Spokesperson Zhao Lijian made the remarks during a regular press briefing when asked to comment on remarks by U.S. White House press secretary Jen Psaki.

Zhao said that China calls for a thorough investigation of the origin of the COVID-19 outbreak in the United States, the reasons and parties to be held accountable for the poor performance of the United States in epidemic containment, and problems existing in Fort Detrick and over 200 U.S. bio-labs overseas.

Zhao also called on the international community to jointly urge the United States to provide support in the investigation and provide transparent data and channels.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2021 4:39 utc | 152

Re; Shutting down all Iranian sites by the US. (This includes Houthis and Yemen)

They are obviously trying to eliminate out any source of information that they don't control.
But: This comes immediately after the visit of the top Israeli General to the US, and the Election of Bennett. It is mainly to hide the appalling vicious violence in Sheik Jarrah and the Al Aqsa mosque against Palestinians. Where armed "settlers" and the IDF have combined forces to forcibly evict and subsequently deport the inhabitants. As well as ongoing settler violence and the suppression of any Palestinian caught. (Including brutalising anyone with a flag, taking a 7 yr old from school classes, as well as the 500-700 children they have already "arrested")

That would be bad enough, however, two Israeli spy planes have been seen flying very close to Syria, (Usually mean an attack is imminenent. The US has another two spy planes flying almost on the border between Belarus and the EU (North).

This is not "business" as usual.

The Iran-US negotiation will probably never be concluded as the US still demands but does not give. Iran is close to sending up another "satellite".

So My take on the present "shut down what you don't want the world to know about" situation;
possibility, 1) Al Aqsa mosque and the Israel extremists, try to burn it down or otherwise destroy it. Note that Israelis and Palestinians are very close to restarting hostilities anyway. The original provocations and population suppression by Netanyahu, which caused the flare up, are now worse under Bennett. More arrests, etc. - which are NOT reported in the west. As they have now been resupplied with Iron dome and Patriot missiles - they will start again.
possibility 2), Israel and the Iranian nuclear power plant (which had to be shut down - probabaly more Israel/MEK sabotage)
possibilities 3)and 4) The Black sea (New exercises with 32+ ships planned) and Baltic area - Trouble in the gap between Belarus and Kalingrad.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 23 2021 7:25 utc | 153

or maybe it is just about the Houthis...who seem to be winning the battle for Marib lately.
plus their latest rockrts into KSA (unreported in Western MSM).

Posted by: Mina | Jun 23 2021 7:39 utc | 154

To the open thread, and our host Bernhard (b).

Fellow barflies (you know who you are),

How good it is, to have these recent conversations without constant disruptive comments.

Not sure why, perhaps because conversations not about certain foreign conflicts in countries that start with syr, or Things that used to get us big attention, and not in a good way.

Maybe they are too busy or the budget has run out due to poor return on investment.

In any case I thank you all for the food for thought, we all know it takes work.

One of these days I hope to post more original ideas beyond this heartfelt « well done ladies and gentlemen. »

Posted by: Jonku | Jun 23 2021 9:34 utc | 155

Posted by: Mina | Jun 23 2021 14:39 utc | 156

Stonebird @153--

The Outlaw US Empire's junior partner the UK is doing its best to stir up trouble in the Black Sea:

"A Russian warship has fired warning shots after the HMS Defender, a British Royal Navy destroyer, violated Russia's maritime borders in the Black Sea, the Russian Ministry of Defence announced Wednesday.

"Along with the naval manoeuvres, a Russian Su-24M attack aircraft carried out a mock bombing run against the British warship, according to the ministry.

"'At 11:52 am on 23 June, the HMS Defender of the British Royal Navy, operating in the northwestern part of the Black Sea, violated the border and entered three kilometres into Russian territorial waters in the region of Cape Fiolent," the MoD said in a press statement.

"According to the military, the British warship was warned that deadly force would be used if it violated Russia's borders. The ship was said to have ignored the warning.

"'At 12:06 and 12:08, a border patrol vessel carried out warning shots. At 12:19 a Su-24M carried out a warning bombing run using 4 OFAB-250 [hihgh-explosive fragmentation] bombs at the HMS Defender's path of movement,' the statement added. 'At 12:23 the combined actions of the Black Sea Fleet and the Border Forces of the FSB forced the HMS Defender to leave the territorial waters of the Russian Federation.'"

The UK has denied the incident took place. But we know better than to believe anything said by NATO. One more piece of evidence that the Putin/Biden Summit accomplished almost nothing. And now it's reported that Macron and Merkel want to invite Putin to the European Summit:

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel and President Emmanuel Macron of France are privately calling for a summit meeting of European leaders including Russian President Vladimir Putin in a bid to steer the European Union toward 'closer engagement with Russia,' the Financial Times reports [Link at Original], citing people said to be familiar with the diplomatic discussions....

"At the same time, German and French diplomats reportedly put other EU members on the spot in a meeting in Brussels on Wednesday by fielding a new proposal to improve relations with Russia, with some countries raising a 'stink' about the idea."

Oh I bet those shit-hole nations complained mightily. Although I believe such a meeting will accomplish nothing, Putin will likely accept on the basis that jaw-jaw is better than war-war.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 16:09 utc | 157

karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 16:09 utc | 157

"At the same time, German and French diplomats reportedly put other EU members on the spot in a meeting in Brussels on Wednesday by fielding a new proposal to improve relations with Russia, with some countries raising a 'stink' about the idea."

Maybe the Biden-Putin meeting will have after effects, after all.
I assume that both Putin and Biden got something out of the meeting. Both were seen to be more reasonable than expected, and even Biden could be said to "have stood up to Putin" (at least talked to him without stumbling in front of the press).

It is possible that the Crimea incident and others to come like it, are because of that meeting spoiling the retirement plans of arms manufacturers and various Military extremists. ie. The "end-run around the meeting" to change the tack back to confrontation.

If Germany and France continue to look which way the wind is blowing - maybe things might slowly change for the better. Hope so anyway. Europe has also got a lot of catching up to do to follow Chinese and Russia into space - for starters.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 23 2021 16:39 utc | 158

karlof1 "The UK has denied the incident took place."

That short sentence is very interesting. Why would the UK, after pushing novichock and other bullshit refrain from loudly squealing that they had been attacked? Was the incident designed purely to make Ukraine think UK would step in if they begun a war with Russia?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 23 2021 16:44 utc | 159

@ psychohistorian (#150),

“So do you support the BIS remaining private where I emphatically don't?”
I don’t support the BIS remaining private. First, BIS was created in the non-digital era by the Global Financial Syndicate In 1931 to maintain its hegemony. In the digital arena, many of its interactions can be digitized and made transparent. Secondly, It needs to be brought under a structure like the UN general assembly, along with SWIFT so no nation has monopoly. Lastly, to prevent informational asymmetry, most of its information need to be made public. There is no point in an institution being public and hiding most of the information.

“Do you see private banking in any way being involved with foreign exchange between sovereign nations?”
Over world is NUANCED. There are multiple aspects here. With regards to money creation, the private banks should have no role. However, with regards to fund raising, let a private bank or an equity fund or sovereign wealth fund or venture funds, play an active role. If an American corporation wants to target the large China’s market then it can obtain funds preferably from the U$A public export bank or sovereign wealth fund. If it can’t from these funds then it might avail services of a U$A’s global bank or China’s bank to raise capital or any other capital fund. These funds typically raise money from various investors and don’t create money.

“If private banks are allowed to factor out loans, aren't they creating money? I think your definition of how the various forms of money/value are created needs work.”
Have you heard of the concept of 100% reserve banking. Private banks will not create money through loans. However, they can loan from the money they have raised. Please understand the difference here. Similarly, Public banks shouldn’t create money through loans. Only the Sovereign Monetary Authority creates money. In the housing arena, the public bank needs to coordinate mortgages with the Monetary Authority. Public banks can get money from the state pension funds too.

“In my world, public banking is a core part of the system of governance... private finance folk have a seat at the table of global risk management and resource allocation...”
I am in sync with your intent. No difference there. However, the best way to prevent the abuse of POWER is by decentralization. Competition improves the service quality. We need to limit private finance to providing banking services only, and away from the monetary arena. No bailout for the private and public sector.

Please define the functions performed by the “public banks.” In our nation (U$A), our ingenuity is our greatest STRENGTH and our creative people, our great asset. What enables us to excel in this arena in addition to great entrepreneurs? Multiple ways to raise funding. This is also the case in China and Russia. When an individual comes up with an idea at a company, most likely their company won’t fund them. So they leave the job and raise funding from outside, most likely presenting to more than ten funds. In the scenario, you’re proposing, the public banks won’t fund them as they don’t have assets. How will they gain funds to build their venture? What happens in China in the new venture creation arena?

Please answer my earlier question about, “What are the core challenges with regards to the monetary, economic and financial systems?” You’re missing the most foundational core issue of the monetary sphere.

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 17:44 utc | 160

@ karlof1 (#137),

I appreciate your thoughts. Thanks. I love learning from everywhere. I know these nations very well and have lots of public as well as private information on them. Information is in abundance.

The challenge of our time is that we have so much information and intelligence, but so little wisdom & courage.

A better way to engage with me is summarizing the learning, conclusion and its impact, along with the evidence for validation. China has made the best use of its monetary system to serve its populace. It has clearly defined its core values and development themes. It will be great for Russia to make progress in this arena. How China, Russia and Iran manage going forward the war declared on them by the Global Financial Syndicate is the crux of the global challenge?

When promoting a nation, please define their core values, development themes and who creates majority of money in that country? Without this info, one doesn’t have good understanding of that nation.

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 18:22 utc | 161

It would appear the McAfee Saga has come to an end with his death in a Spanish prison, thus again begging the question: Where's the investigation into the Clinton's? McAfee famously stated that if he was to be pronounced dead via suicide to view that as a lie and his death as a murder.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 20:53 utc | 162

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 20:53 utc | 162

Beat me to the punch. It looks like McAfee might have been Epsteined.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 23 2021 21:03 utc | 163

karlof1 @Jun23 20:53 #162: death in a Spanish prison

Tom_Q_Collins @Jun23 21:03 #163: ... might have been Epsteined.

Yeah, I thought his beef was with USA not Spain. So I would've thought that if McAfee was going to kill himself (to make a point or just annoy authorities) that he'd have done it in a USA prison.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 23 2021 22:14 utc | 164

@ Max | Jun 23 2021 17:44 utc | 160 who asked
Please answer my earlier question about, “What are the core challenges with regards to the monetary, economic and financial systems?” You’re missing the most foundational core issue of the monetary sphere.
Before addressing your questions let me respond to the rest of your comment by saying that we disagree about private finance having a rightful place in the world of sovereign finance....I don't think it does.

In a multi-polar world the fluctuation in exchanges rates and maintenance of a stable global monetary store of value are major challenges, IMO
In a climate challenged political economy world the multi-polar decisions around risk management and resource allocation will be major challenges if the non-humanistic private finance meme continues to exists as you suggest to provide "competition" where humanity IMO needs to emphasize cooperation instead of institutionalizing those with inherited wealth as a class of society....GAG!!!

The jackboot of global private finance is keeping humanity from evolving from barbarism/competition to something better.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 24 2021 5:07 utc | 165

Jonathan Cook nails internet censorship and hasbara again:

The rats always hide when the lights are turned on.

Posted by: Paul | Jun 24 2021 7:10 utc | 166


Posted by: john | Jun 24 2021 13:04 utc | 167

john @Jun24 13:04 #167: RIP [video]

IMO McAfee's concern with 'Deep State' bureaucrats isn't likely to have got him 'Epsteined'.

His rant in this video falls flat because: 1) the regulations that he rails on about stem from laws that are passed, and 2) the vast amount of so-called "unaccountable" bureaucrats have little to no power.

The power of the "Deep State" lies with power-elite that control the Deep State institutions that McAfee mentions (SEC, CIA, FBI, etc.). That power-elite is indeed beyond politics and is hierarchical in nature.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 24 2021 13:39 utc | 168

If McAfee was 'Epsteined' it's because the establishment will not allow popular/populist leaders (on the left or the right) that are not controlled by the establishment.

Even though his analysis was off, McAfee was too outspoken and too popular.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 24 2021 14:01 utc | 169

Jackrabbit @ 168

His rant in this video falls flat because...

It seems to me his rant says pretty much exactly what you said...

...but since the details of his death is and will remain all conjecture, I'd posit that the prospect of being humiliated and tortured inside the Federal prison system for the rest of his days was enough incentive for him to make a pragmatic decision. He certainly had the temerity.

Posted by: john | Jun 24 2021 14:41 utc | 170

john @Jun24 14:41 #170

It seems to me his rant says pretty much exactly what you said...

No. As I pointed out, McAfee failed to make a distinction between bureaucrats in establishment institutions the power-elite that controls the establishment institutions.

Now, he may have planned to highlight control by power-elite if he was brought to trial in USA. But he didn't make that an issue in the video that you linked to.

He certainly had the temerity.

And hence my follow-up comment @Jun24 14:01 #169 (which you didn't comment on). His temerity and his popularity among the populist right made him dangerous to the establishment.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 24 2021 15:35 utc | 171

@ psychohistorian (#165),

There is too much generalization and grouping in your comment. Please define “public finance” and “private finance” and define their key elements & characteristics. Also, at the core of any system are people/values, institutions/regulatory-framework and mechanism/activities. Without majority of the populace with integrity nothing works, as the system gets corrupted, captured and controlled. What do you see are strengths and weaknesses of these two financial (public & private) spheres?

The “sovereign finance” to me is when a sovereign authority creates money and manages its allocation at the creation and regulation. They’re the monetary system. However, economic & financial systems are different from the sovereign finance aspect. Assume a small business owner, who wants to sell their business. In the present system, they get a financial broker who finds them a buyer and might also bring some local investors together. This selling of the business transaction and its financing, is the private finance service in my view. Are you saying that this business owner needs to go through a public finance/bank to sell their business?

The existing private money creation system has been captured, corrupted and controlled by the Global Financial Syndicate. This is the key driving force of our world that is turning nations into suzerainties and privatization of their economy. This doesn’t mean private finance is bad. Also, cartels and monopolies are bad. Power corrupts and it is better to have check and balances along with competition.

Please answer all the questions asked before we engage further. They’re their to enhance understanding of each other’s perspectives.

Posted by: Max | Jun 24 2021 16:51 utc | 172

Buffalo To Become 1st US City With a Socialist Mayor Since 1960

"Walton told MSNBC's Ayman Mohyeldin on Wednesday: “I believe we won because we organized. We have a message of care, love, and hope that is resonant with working-class Buffalo."

Posted by: arby | Jun 24 2021 18:20 utc | 173

@ Max | Jun 24 2021 16:51 utc | 172

I posit that all finance should be a public utility.

I posit that private finance has no socially redeeming qualities.

If there are financial transactions to perform the parties go to the bank which is a public utility in my world but you think that there is some magic to private finance and I call BS.

End of conversation.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 24 2021 19:43 utc | 174

@ psychohistorian (#174),

You state, “there are financial transactions to perform the parties go to the bank which is a public utility in my world but you think that there is some magic to private finance and I call BS..” Even today all the financial transactions in the U$A go through the Fed’s network and SWIFT, other than the credit card transactions. So in the financial transactions arena, you aren’t proposing anything new other than minor tweaks.

The private financial arena, I am referring to is the mutual funds, private equity funds, ... These funds already execute financial transactions over the Fed’s network. Are you saying these funds should be public utilities?

Posted by: Max | Jun 24 2021 20:04 utc | 175

@ Max | Jun 24 2021 20:04 utc | 175

SWIFT and the BIS are private organizations. Yes, I am proposing that all financial transactions are handled by sovereign entities as a public service to society.

You haven't been here for years so let me repeat a few other beliefs....need to neuter or eliminate inheritance. Need to make private real property ownership be leases from the sovereign nations Public Commons. Need to replace usury with good system of risk management and resource allocation with debt forgiveness like China is doing on annual basis.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 1:25 utc | 176

@ psychohistorian (#176),

I had said earlier that BIS be brought under the UN type structure. There is no issue about the financial transactions as they don’t cause major problems other than sanctions.

Don’t agree on eliminating inheritance. If a family makes sacrifices, don’t take vacations to build their business, you’re saying that after the death of a business owner everything goes to the state. That is wrong and stealing. Even in China that doesn’t happen.

Many problems can be solved by creating money debt and interest free, as an asset to the people. One need to keep the system simple, reasonable and not transfer the power to bureaucrats, who have failed badly and enabled enslavement of their people. They have no integrity. There must be democratic oversight of the monetary system.

Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 3:02 utc | 177

@176 psychohistorian

Excuse the interjection. I hadn't fully understood the full portfolio of your ideals, and I'm glad to be able to do so now. I like the picture you paint. It's larger than I thought we were talking about with regard to private finance.

I have always thought we were discussing the sole matter of the non-sovereign issue of legal tender, which I believe we all agree is a sovereign prerogative that should remain under sovereign agency and not be franchised to private bankers.

I like what Max suggests, which is that if the money of a nation is created through sovereign agency, then any entity that manages to accumulate or hold some of that money should be free to loan it or invest it in any way it chooses. And if the only matter under discussion is the sovereign issue of money, then this seems reasonable to me.

But if the platform contains all the planks you advocate, then it seems the canvas gets much larger. And it will become even more important to be clear on the matter of the sovereign issue of money - I think there are some people who could settle for that one plank of the platform and not care so much for the other planks. And if they were lost to the larger platform, they would still be a gain if allied with that one plank.

So it becomes very important to spell out these distinctions at every step.

I hope this interjection is valuable. I really want this discussion to continue - and over successive threads, by all means - and to remain collegial as we hammer out the exact planks and platforms we're agreeing on.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 3:13 utc | 178

@177 Max

And I like your positions also. I really like this discussion and as I said above, I trust we can continue to discuss each of the "planks of the platform" as I have called them, and clarify each in turn.

Please continue both, and I hope this can all remain in the spirit of amity and intellectual rigor, which has so far been displayed.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 3:16 utc | 179

@ Max and Grieved about inheritance

Please note I wrote neuter or eliminate inheritance.

I stated it that way because I believe that unfettered inheritance is how the private finance folk have maintained their increasing control and personally I have seen way too much inherited entitlement in my life time to not believe it feeds wealth-based discrimination/better-than-others attitudes.

I wrote eliminate inheritance because I want to bring up the core support for the inheritance values and explore other societal ways of meeting those needs....we can't fix things by using the same tools that made the sickness we have....Einstein wrote similar

It would be interesting to know about the evolution os what China is doing with this subject.....what really is happening/has happened with Jack Ma?

So wade in with defense of "private property" or other evolutions other than lease arrangements that may vary between residential, commercial and industrial, agricultural, ???

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 3:43 utc | 180

@ Grieved (#178 &179),

You’re welcome to share your thoughts. Thanks for your kind words. Good ideas and constructive comments are always welcome.

The fundamental problem with money is that it is created as debt and at interest. This results in need for future monetary inflation to pay the interest and thereby demand for continuous growth. If money is created as an asset and interest free then we’re addressing the problem of unlimited growth and hopefully managing business cycle in a better way.

All money in a nation need to be created by the sovereign monetary authority as it is nation’s property. This sovereign money needs to be invested in the best interest of the nation to develop the infrastructure, populace and economic well-being. It can also be loaned to the populace to buy a single home.

The populace will earn money from work and it becomes their “earned money.” One need to limit government’s involvement in managing the earned money. It is your hard earned money and you decide. An individual can save or invest it in public or private funds or start a business based on their risk profile, age, competency... This is the main area where I differ with psychohistorian. I believe we need to have a choice of public and private funds since it is our earned money. Also, to prevent abuse there needn’t be a BAILOUT of public or private funds. So if a private fund made an investment in Enron then an investor in that fund loses. Hopefully, they will learn and won’t make the mistake in the future. Similarly, if they fund an entrepreneur, let them enjoy the benefits of success. Minimum or no government interference in the earned money.

Another key element is the “DILUTION Rate”, which determines how much new money is created, as any new money will dilute the value of previous money. This is the most likely area where we might see problems with public funds as they will save themselves through more money creation.

Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 4:03 utc | 181

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 3:43 utc | 180

Yes, I agree with you, inheritance law is what allows or does not allow the accumulation of these great family fortunes. And trusts.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 25 2021 4:11 utc | 182

ditto bemildreds comment to psychohistorian @ 182.... i see it the same way too..

Posted by: james | Jun 25 2021 4:25 utc | 183

@ Max | Jun 25 2021 4:03 utc | 181

I read that you assume a corrupt government so they can't be trusted to hold/provide limited store-of-value utility and I disagree that this is a about how China is dealing with corruption and their secular meritocracy government

Every large accumulation of wealth that I have seen close up included significant support from government and public utilities like roads, sewer, water, electricity, etc. to the point where I question how much externalities of the accumulation of that wealth do not owe back to the society that supports its creation/existence.

I am not against private enterprise and believe that it constitutes over 50% of mixed economies. What I am against is structural impediments to health/education/income/opportunity equality and IMO, global private finance is that core structural impediment and unfettered inheritance is one of the legs of its ongoing support.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 4:30 utc | 184

@181 Max

Dr. Richard Werner has made the very sound point that if additional money chases additional goods, there's no inflation. As a rule of thumb, this would be new issuance to fund the productive economy, which produces new goods, etc.

But if new money chases the existing quantity of goods, this is price inflation - actually very simple supply and demand, and we see it with today's Fed QE going straight into the asset markets. In other words, new money for fictitious economic activities (finance), based on a static quantity of goods.


Interest of course is the drug that keeps the addict racing beyond natural endurance, and would not be allowed on a public utility money. And compound interest turns the screw beyond any human limits, and guarantees heart failure since the extra money to pay for the interest can never be found from the source of money which it encumbers.

Very evil stuff, as we all know, compound interest - perhaps the most evil thing ever visited upon the human race.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 4:42 utc | 185

And thinking about inheritance.

You could make the argument that the society as a whole with its laws and agreements allows the accumulation of capital, and that leaving this accumulation to another generation is a way of taking it out of the system that supported you in the making of it, a way of not paying the dues to be charged for a lifetime of protection.

I like the argument, but you'd have to make it very soundly and completely, because not everyone would be convinced.

I also think that when interest is eliminated from capital, a lot of the inheritance leverage would tend to disappear. This is what Max is saying, take away the interest, make money sovereign in issuance, and a lot of evils disappear.


And also, to what psychohistorian is saying, much of this is political policy. And we need to remember that economics was always called "political economy" and for a good reason.

When the source money is sovereign, the regulation of the way it can be used falls naturally into sovereign politics.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 4:50 utc | 186

@ Grieved | Jun 25 2021 4:50 utc | 186 who wrote
When the source money is sovereign, the regulation of the way it can be used falls naturally into sovereign politics.

If private banks are allowed to continue they will be able to make digital money that is indistinguishable from this source money which is only one kind of money.....and then there is the association to value over time issue.

One makes money when they work for money renumeration, don't they.....?

Lets build a form of social organization, shall we?
What are the "use cases" for this thing we call money?
1. "stable" medium of exchange
2. "stable" store of value over time
3. ???

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 5:03 utc | 187

And one last thought before disappearing for the day - a lot of the political decision is based on a sense of, what are sensible limits, what comports with natural human life?

We see immortal corporate vehicles transferring ownership rights on capital across national borders and across eons of time. And perhaps these transfers are larger than the human systems they transcend? Untrammeled financial license is what we want to stop.

Therefore, what kind of portability of capital is acceptable? What can one family leave to its heirs and assigns such that society feels this is a great gift to make, a productive inheritance to leave? What crosses this line and shifts wealth that belongs to one generation of the whole society into the next generation of society, unbalanced, without paying the cost of earning?

It would be good to debate these questions, because in so doing we would automatically re-establish the notion that society truly does have the right to make these decisions, and to place these limits on the actors and accumulations that take form within its tenure.


This is the realm of thought that China operates within. It hardly matters what the system is called, it's the jurisdiction that matters, and China says that these decisions belong to society.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 5:10 utc | 188

To add to the discussion I want to quote from a Michael Hudson link that karof1 provided somewhere and I am finally reading it

What China and Russia found out very quickly is what initially seemed to be an economic rivalry between America and China and other countries was not really an anti-China rivalry as such. It’s a conflict of economic systems. The conflict is between neoliberalism – a financialized world order that wants to privatize all infrastructure and create monopoly rents for transportation, education, healthcare, like what occurs in the United States – and having these basic investments in the public domain, to be subsidized and their services provided at minimum cost. The question at issue is what kind of economy the world is going to have. Will it be a neoliberal economy, a privatized economy – Reaganized, Thatcherized and financialized, organized by central planning in Wall Street – or is the government going to plan?

China and Russia do not want a centrally planned economy anywhere near as centralized as the United States is promoting with Wall Street. In the United States the center of economic planning has been shifted from Washington to Wall Street financial institutions. Banks create credit not to create new means of production, not to build new factories and plant and equipment, but essentially to extend credit against assets already in place. Eighty percent of bank loans in the United States and in England are mortgage loans for real estate, against real estate that’s already in place. I think three percent of mortgage loans are for new construction as long as these loans are already collateralized with promises to buy apartments etc.

So the question is what kind of financial system are you going to have to back up a central banking system and credit creation? Is credit going to be a public infrastructure enterprise as it is in China, where the banks of China are able to decide who is going to get the loans. A public bank is not going to make corporate takeover loans or loans to corporate raiders. It’s going to make loans to actually increase the tangible economy, not to take it over and turn public infrastructure – the education system, healthcare, transportation and communications – into rent extraction.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 5:16 utc | 189

@187 psychohistorian - "If private banks are allowed to continue"

I think nothing we're discussing works if private banks continue to create the money supply as debt. It seems all other proposals become meaningless without this core feature, namely, of sovereign money issued by a nation free of interest, as a public utility.

It doesn't seem that we can contemplate any other features of the economic system without sovereign money.

Other features are worthy to contemplate, but they all fail without sovereign money.


And of course, on reflection, in the US its constitution does prescribe sovereign money, delegating that power to Congress to issue money and regulate weights and measures. A very orderly system they prescribed, such as any sovereign would.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 5:20 utc | 190

And finally, and then I'm gone. An advance of money from the government to an individual or enterprise doesn't have to charge anything at all, other than the obligation of repayment.

Hudson can talk about loans, and even Chinese loans, but there's absolutely no need to have interest of any kind on those "loans". The minor cost of emitting the money can be carried by the public budget as a cost of operating society as a whole.

Taxes pay for civilization. Money extended by society as investment into human enterprise seems a natural part of civilized society.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 5:26 utc | 191

"central planning in Wall Street – or is the government going to plan?"

good question... so far - wall st is winning hands down! freedom for wall st, and slavery for everyone else..

Posted by: james | Jun 25 2021 15:24 utc | 192

@ Grieved (#190 &191),

Good points. You and I are on the same page.

It is time to ban commercial banks from “creating” money through their lending to governments, businesses and consumers. This privilege enables them to financialize everything and create revenue generating financial instruments, leverage and bubbles. Takeaway this privilege and most bubbles will go bust.

Many problems in the financial arena can be addressed by:
– Creating sovereign money, debt & interest free, and issued by the sovereign monetary authority
– Democratic oversight of the monetary system with complete transparency and accountability
– Regulatory framework that ensures all finance entities operating under strict guidelines, and with no bailouts.

The single biggest problem is the Money As Debt system, aka money creation by private banking at interest using their central banking system. Under the present insane system, RULERS are allowed to create ALL money out of thin air, and they're allowed to LEND that money to governments, businesses & individuals, forcing us into debt, forcing us to pay interest, when the government could simply create the exact same money debt free and interest free.

This is THE issue... everything else pales in comparison. The totally unnecessary and fraudulent Money As Debt monetary system is what enables the Global Financial Syndicate to control politicians, the government, and public policy to their advantage. It enables all other problems, including economic crashes and unnecessary wars based on lies.

If the public is unable to grasp this core issue, then nothing else will matter... we're doomed, headed straight for the bankster-run authoritarian tyranny of the New World Order, a fascist nightmare in which they will own and control everything and everyone, and which they have been planning for well over a hundred years.

On the other hand, if the public can somehow come to understand this very basic concept and then come together to end the private creation of money at interest by the banks, then all other problems can be solved... history has proven that.

A wise individual said it well:
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits [loans at interest], and with the flick of a pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this world would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain slaves of the Bankers and pay for the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits."

Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 21:31 utc | 193

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