@ Max briefly about some concepts of finance going forward.
Money as medium of exchange I think will be different than money held as store of value.
China’s Digital Yuan with expiration date is my example of medium of exchange with small exposure to currency manipulation.
Money as store of value hopefully will be what I have written about before, consisting of representative mix of “FOOD”, commodities, precious metals and breadbasket of nations currencies.
I am not sure where national and state infrastructure bonds fit in the personal investment realm of the future nor investment in private companies.
I notice you seem to assume the continuation of private banking. Please tell me how that fits in a sane world at all.
I am very busy the next few days so this back and forth may die out but I appreciate ongoing communication about future social organization and finance policy/issues/solutions

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 22 2021 5:26 utc | 104

Foreign Policy publishes “The Lab Leak Theory Doesn’t Hold Up
The rush to find a conspiracy around the COVID-19 pandemic’s origins is driven by narrative, not evidence.”
By Justin Ling – June 15, 2021, 1:34 PM. Unfortunately their paywall prevents me accessing the content.
And on the same date Mike Whitney and Ron Unz publish a detailed chronological and circumstantial evidence soundly supported by historical behaviour.
In case you would like to take up Ron Unz offer for a free ebook, Our Covic-19 Catastrophe ~ click here.
Thank you Ron Unz.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 22 2021 8:08 utc | 106

Here it is, 80 years after the invasion Valdimir Putin writes a letter to Germany, published in Die Zeit:
https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2021-06/ueberfall-auf-die-sowjetunion-1941-europa-russland-geschichte-wladimir-putin
A couple of paragraphs machine translated:
We are proud of the courage and steadfastness of the heroes of the Red Army and the workers at home, who not only defended the independence and dignity of their fatherland, but also saved Europe and the whole world from enslavement. Notwithstanding recent attempts to rewrite the chapters of the past, the truth is that the Soviet soldier did not set foot on German soil to take revenge on the Germans, but to fulfill his noble and great liberation mission. The memory of the heroes in the fight against Nazism is sacred to us. We thank the allies of the anti-Hitler coalition, the fighters of the Resistance and the German anti-fascists who brought the common victory closer.
….
The root cause of the increasing mutual distrust in Europe lay in the advance of the military alliance towards the east, which incidentally began with the fact that the Soviet leadership was de facto persuaded to agree to the unified Germany joining NATO. The verbal promises made back then according to the motto “This is not directed against you” or “The block boundaries will not come close to you” were all too quickly forgotten. The precedent was set.
….
Moreover, many countries were faced with an artificial choice – either to cooperate with the collective West or with Russia. In fact, this was an ultimatum. The consequences of this aggressive policy are clearly illustrated by the example of the Ukrainian tragedy of 2014. Europe actively supported the armed unconstitutional coup in Ukraine. It all started with that. What was that necessary for? The then incumbent President Viktor Yanukovych had already accepted all of the opposition’s demands. Why did the USA organize this coup and the EU states support it without will and thus provoked the division within Ukraine and the exit of Crimea from the Ukrainian state?
….
I would like to emphasize once again: Russia is calling for the restoration of a comprehensive partnership with Europe. There are many topics of common interest: security and strategic stability, health and education, digitization, energy, culture, science and technology, solutions to climate and environmental problems.
The world is evolving dynamically and is constantly confronted with new challenges and threats. And we simply cannot afford to carry around the burden of previous misunderstandings, hurts, conflicts and mistakes. A burden that prevents us from solving current problems. We are convinced that we all have to admit and correct these mistakes. Our common and undisputed goal is to ensure the security of the continent without dividing lines and a unified space for equal cooperation and collective development in the interests of the prosperity of Europe and the whole world.
…

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 8:23 utc | 108

Oops, it is fully and officially translated now:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/65899

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 8:38 utc | 110

Paco #117
Yay thanks for that. Sad that so many are overtly deaf and yet covertly hearing well what Putin and Lavrov are saying. They live in fear of the great satan still it seems.
Such is the great game.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 22 2021 8:58 utc | 112

Just a small sample, no results, neither NYTimes, WaPo, Le monde, The Guardian, El País, none of them mention the 80th anniversary of the nazi attack on the Soviet Union, all of them talk about sanctioning Belarus, the very first front line and a country that lost a third of its population to the nazi attack.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” a Spanish guy said that.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 22 2021 10:34 utc | 114

Very aggressive, desperate piece of propaganda:
With massive dams, China finds a weapon in water

The fact that the gorge is one of the world’s most biodiverse regions seems to be of little concern to the CPC, which is far more interested in being able to use water as a weapon against India, its Asian rival. China has already set the stage for construction, recently completing a highway through the canyon and announcing the start of high-speed train service to a military town near the gorge. This will enable the transport of heavy equipment, materials and workers to the remote region, which was long thought inaccessible because of its treacherous terrain.
The CPC views its centenary as cause for celebration. But the rest of the world should see the party for what it is: repressive, genocidal and environmentally rapacious. And it should prepare for what the CPC’s second century may bring.

What started as a “defensive border war” has escalated to a call for a war of conquest of the entire Tibet because of some “water wars” in Asia.
Indian Fascism is now evolving and they’re already calling for a Hitlerian crusade against Communist China.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 13:05 utc | 116

Interesting, on the relative efficiency of immunization via infection and via vaccine according to the various strains (bibliography at the end of the paper is in English)
https://www.lemonde.fr/blog/realitesbiomedicales/2021/06/22/covid-19-nouvelles-donnees-sur-le-variant-delta-dit-indien-en-progression-dans-de-nombreux-pays/

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 14:02 utc | 118

@ Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 13:48 utc | 117
This has nothing to do with mRNA. It’s all political.
When Merkel took the first jab, the EU still had a contract with AstraZeneca. After the Brexit/AstraZeneca imbroglio, the EU broke up with AstraZeneca and sued it. Since the Chinese and Russian options were out of the table (for obvious political reasons), the only option left for Merkel’s second jab was an American vaccine.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 14:06 utc | 120

vk @116
That is sad and pathetic. The Chinese know that water supplies in the region will become stressed, sometimes severely stressed, due to climate change. The Chinese are the only ones being proactive about the problem by setting up water management systems. The Indians won’t even start thinking about severe water shortage mitigation plans until after millions of their countrymen die from the shortages. Will they thank the Chinese when the situation reaches crisis levels and they still have at least some water? Of course not. They will just complain that the Chinese are being stingy about the amount of water they release from the reservoirs.
Count on it.
The water shortage issues on the Indian subcontinent due to climate change are going to reach crisis levels that make the Covid pandemic seem like a pleasant walk in the park. This will happen in the lifetimes of readers here, even though many like me are up there in years. This problem gets far too little attention now but I guarantee our host will publish articles on it in the future as it will be a major geopolitical issue.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 22 2021 14:27 utc | 122

@ Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 22 2021 14:35 utc | 123
Your hypothesis doesn’t explain why Merkel took AstraZeneca (which is not mRNA) as her first dose.
Here’s a very short and simplified history of the mRNA technology: it is a technology developed by the USG (i.e. public funded) in a lab in Pennsylvania during the 1990s. The objective was to develop a vaccine against AIDS. Initial research was promising, but eventually it stuck in a dead-end after some two decades.
Then, more than ten years later, all of a sudden, the mRNA was resuscitated to produce vaccines against the COVID-19. The first laboratory to come out with one was Moderna, which represents the privatization of the Pennsylvania research and, rumors say, Dr. Fauci is a founder and stakeholder.
The weird thing about mRNA is not that the technology isn’t scientifically legitimate, but that it was shelved for more than a decade because it didn’t show any progress and was suddenly revived and sold as a panacea to the COVID-19. Biological science is not hard science: sound theory doesn’t automatically translate into sound application. You have to have decades of trials and refinement of manufacturing technology in order to make it work properly.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 14:48 utc | 124

@ psychohistorian (#104).
Instead of talking about solutions or new ideas, let’s first focus on the core problems with the existing monetary paradigm. What are the core challenges with regards to the monetary, economic and financial systems?
To clarify with regards to, “I notice you seem to assume the continuation of private banking. Please tell me how that fits in a sane world at all.” In the new paradigm, money creation and allocation are managed by the government institution, the Monetary Authority. Money ones in circulation, the private banking players enable its efficient management in the corporate sector for the overall well-being of the nation, in terms of competitive edge, technological capabilities and capacities, international trade… The public banking can play an active role in the state economics with regards to small businesses and infrastructure. China has a similar model. Please watch Eric Li’s conversations on YouTube. We need healthy competition in the banking arena between public banking and private banking. In the corporate banking arena, private banks, equity funds and venture capitalists are better suited to manage the industrial sphere. It will be good for the post offices to provide consumer banking services.
What role do you see the public banking playing?

Posted by: Max | Jun 22 2021 15:42 utc | 126

WHO suddenly is indicating jabs are not for children(dated 3 June 2021). Is it to escape the responsibility of results of compulsory jabs side effects or it had a sudden change of heart?
Anyway for the present children from 12-18 are saved provided nations listen to its advise.

Posted by: R M Rao | Jun 22 2021 15:51 utc | 128

Typepad appears to once again negate comments with links to The Saker, so I’ll remove that and repost my comment.
Pepe Escobar provides the first balanced analysis of Raisi’s election, which will eventually emerge from behind the Asia Times paywall at be republished at The Saker’s, Zerohedge, and the other usual outlets. He emphasizes as I have that Iran’s foreign policy is forged by the Supreme Leader, Kamenei:
“Yet foreign policy must follow Khamenei’s guidelines, which are very clear. Without understanding Khamenei’s worldview, any analysis of Iranian complexities is an idle sport….
“On the 40th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, Khamenei updated his concept of foreign policy as part of a clear map for the future [Link at original]. This is absolutely required reading to understand what Iran is all about.”
Pepe then goes on to cite an analysis by Mansoureh Tajik, that first appeared at The Saker, which “emphasizes the ways the system strives for balance and justice. Khamenei could not be more straightforward when he writes”:
“Today, the challenge for the US is Iran’s presence at the borders surrounding the Zionist regime and dismantling the illegitimate influence and presence of America from West Asia; the Islamic Republic’s defense of Palestinian fighters at the heart of the occupied territories; and defense of the holy flag of Hezbollah and the Resistance in the entire region.
“If, in those days, the West’s problem was preventing Iran from buying even the most primitive forms of arms for its defense, today its challenge is to prevent the Iranian arms, military equipment and drones from reaching Hezbollah and the Resistance everywhere in the region.
“If in those days, America imagined it can overcome the Islamic System and the Iranian nation with the help of a few self-selling Iranian traitors, today it is finding itself in need of a large coalition of tens of hostile yet impotent governments to fight Iran. Yet, it fails.”
Pepe says Raisi will follow Khamenei’s “Look East” policy, which I see as a combo of both East and North since the development of the International North-South Transportation Corridor (INSTC) figures prominently. It’s quite likely that Raisi was demonized so greatly because he will be much better for Iran than Rouhani.
Along with the six educational links, Pepe prognosticates:
“So this is what the Raisi era is leading to: a more solid union of Iranian Shi’ism, socialism with Chinese characteristics and the Greater Eurasia Partnership. And it doesn’t hurt that state-of-the-art Russian military technology is quietly surveying the evolving chessboard.”
Oh, as for the JCPOA, Raisi was quite clear tat his first post-election news conference:
“The US must immediately return to the JCPOA, whose terms Washington unilaterally violated, and lift all sanctions.
“The JCPOA negotiations in Vienna will proceed, but they will not be permitted to impose new conditions on Iran in terms of its future.
“The Iranian ballistic missile program is absolutely non-negotiable in the framework of the JCPOA, and will not be curbed.”
Gee, where have I seen all that written before….

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 17:15 utc | 130

@karlof1 (#130), there is a big gap between rhetoric and reality. What are Iran’s core values and development themes? How is its socioeconomic system supporting human capital? Has the implementation phase of its development deal with China started?
What is the probability of Iran being attacked in the near future?
It seems like the Empire is playing a sophisticated game and thinks it can fool China, Russia and Iran (Non-$ Bloc). The key upcoming events are elections in Russia, Germany and Afghanistan withdrawal by September. Also, there is the 2022 Winter Olympics early next year.
A plausible scenario is for the Financial Empire to stage a conflict in Iran driving the oil prices high. Will this placate Russia? High oil prices ($100+) might result in a global recession, providing an excuse for the stock market correction and slowing down China’s growth. Also, this will result in higher demand for the US$. It plays to Empire’s advantage. The Empire will NEED its forces to be in Afghanistan as it likes to open multiple fronts with adversaries. It can further escalate with regards to Taiwan creating a quagmire for China. In this scenario, China’s economy is slowed, global demand for its products falls, its Iran partner gone and Taiwan becomes a trouble spot. What will China and Russia do?
What are other plausible future scenarios? Time will tell…

Posted by: Max | Jun 22 2021 17:31 utc | 132

AZ is still administered in some EU countries. But UK yesterday was talking about the 3rd AZ jab for all this autumn. So Merkel took a shortcut.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 17:43 utc | 134

@ Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 17:47 utc | 135
Yes, there was also hope (hype?) that mRNA would also revolutionize gene therapy in order to treat/cure cancer and even some other genetic diseases.

Posted by: vk | Jun 22 2021 17:51 utc | 136

Biden and his handlers, outgunned in Geneva, John Helmer,
http://johnhelmer.net/five-degrees-of-improbability-general-gerasimov-won-the-battle-of-geneva-without-firing-a-shot/#more-46562

Posted by: Paul | Jun 22 2021 18:17 utc | 138

Paul @131
Too bad Australia doesn’t have more cats.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 22 2021 19:03 utc | 140

Outlaw US Empire seizes Iranian website domains. Ho hum, just another crime chalked up by those running the Empire. They really want the curtain of a Cold War to descend. Should they be given what they want?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 19:36 utc | 142

Peter, you get it right. 60, 000 ppl in Budapest stadium last week and soon the same in Wembley. Lots of them travelling back to the four corners of the planet.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2021 21:12 utc | 144

@karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 19:36 utc | 141
How pathetic by the wannabe Empire. It signals their moral and logic bankruptcy. I posted this before and linked to the iranian presstv site that actually works, but the Empire probably didn’t like that and removed my post.
Therefore, assemble the URL yourself and go to presstv dot ir, it still works.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 22 2021 21:55 utc | 146

Norwegian @144–
Thanks for your reply! Seems a lot of website interference is happening today beyond the usual.
Peter AU 1 @142–
Yes, the first SARS outbreak prompted immediate reactions by NATO-Bloc nations and it went away rapidly as a comment here recently noted. Then we have the planned non-response response by Trump and the NATO-Bloc followed by the China Did It meme that’s being pursued to the ends of the planet along with the Xinjiang Genocide herring as “Trump’s” efforts to decouple and otherwise retard China’s development failed grandly. Mixed in this mess is the Afghan debacle and the very heavy domestic baggage it’s generated. Complicating affairs more are the shifting alliances within the Persian Gulf region that Jay mentions in his article, which omits Iran’s peace negotiations. I also read a report that Biden was moving more Patriot systems out of the Gulf region which has added to the mistrust Jay mentions.
What I hope independent-minded EU nations will now do is chart their own foreign policy and commercial courses that link to the Eurasian Bloc as it becomes ever clearer that the EU doesn’t work for the interests of European nations and is subordinate to the diktats of the Outlaw US Empire. But the window for making independent moves is closing.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 22 2021 22:29 utc | 148

@ Max | Jun 22 2021 15:42 utc | 126 who asked what I think the role is of public banking and who writes of support for ongoing private banking in some sort of “competition” with public banks.
So do you support the BIS remaining private where I emphatically don’t? Do you see private banking in any way being involved with foreign exchange between sovereign nations?
If private banks are allowed to factor out loans, aren’t they creating money? I think your definition of how the various forms of money/value are created needs work.
In my world, public banking is a core part of the system of governance and is the focal point for risk management and resource allocation decisions. I think it counter productive to society to let a cabal of inherited private finance folk have a seat at the table of global risk management and resource allocation and it disturbs me that you seem to think private finance in our society has some socially redeeming qualities….

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2021 1:00 utc | 150

Below is a short posting from Xinhuanet that is the first I have seen China talking about Fort Detrick and over 200 U.S. bio-labs overseas in a press release…more clear push back
”
BEIJING, June 22 (Xinhua) — The United States is in no position to blackmail or coerce China, nor does it have the right to represent the international community to attack and slander China over coronavirus origin tracing, a Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson said Tuesday.
Spokesperson Zhao Lijian made the remarks during a regular press briefing when asked to comment on remarks by U.S. White House press secretary Jen Psaki.
Zhao said that China calls for a thorough investigation of the origin of the COVID-19 outbreak in the United States, the reasons and parties to be held accountable for the poor performance of the United States in epidemic containment, and problems existing in Fort Detrick and over 200 U.S. bio-labs overseas.
Zhao also called on the international community to jointly urge the United States to provide support in the investigation and provide transparent data and channels.
”

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2021 4:39 utc | 152

or maybe it is just about the Houthis…who seem to be winning the battle for Marib lately.
plus their latest rockrts into KSA (unreported in Western MSM).

Posted by: Mina | Jun 23 2021 7:39 utc | 154

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57570377

Posted by: Mina | Jun 23 2021 14:39 utc | 156

karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 16:09 utc | 157
“At the same time, German and French diplomats reportedly put other EU members on the spot in a meeting in Brussels on Wednesday by fielding a new proposal to improve relations with Russia, with some countries raising a ‘stink’ about the idea.”
Maybe the Biden-Putin meeting will have after effects, after all.
I assume that both Putin and Biden got something out of the meeting. Both were seen to be more reasonable than expected, and even Biden could be said to “have stood up to Putin” (at least talked to him without stumbling in front of the press).
It is possible that the Crimea incident and others to come like it, are because of that meeting spoiling the retirement plans of arms manufacturers and various Military extremists. ie. The “end-run around the meeting” to change the tack back to confrontation.
If Germany and France continue to look which way the wind is blowing – maybe things might slowly change for the better. Hope so anyway. Europe has also got a lot of catching up to do to follow Chinese and Russia into space – for starters.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 23 2021 16:39 utc | 158

@ psychohistorian (#150),
“So do you support the BIS remaining private where I emphatically don’t?”
I don’t support the BIS remaining private. First, BIS was created in the non-digital era by the Global Financial Syndicate In 1931 to maintain its hegemony. In the digital arena, many of its interactions can be digitized and made transparent. Secondly, It needs to be brought under a structure like the UN general assembly, along with SWIFT so no nation has monopoly. Lastly, to prevent informational asymmetry, most of its information need to be made public. There is no point in an institution being public and hiding most of the information.
“Do you see private banking in any way being involved with foreign exchange between sovereign nations?”
Over world is NUANCED. There are multiple aspects here. With regards to money creation, the private banks should have no role. However, with regards to fund raising, let a private bank or an equity fund or sovereign wealth fund or venture funds, play an active role. If an American corporation wants to target the large China’s market then it can obtain funds preferably from the U$A public export bank or sovereign wealth fund. If it can’t from these funds then it might avail services of a U$A’s global bank or China’s bank to raise capital or any other capital fund. These funds typically raise money from various investors and don’t create money.
“If private banks are allowed to factor out loans, aren’t they creating money? I think your definition of how the various forms of money/value are created needs work.”
Have you heard of the concept of 100% reserve banking. Private banks will not create money through loans. However, they can loan from the money they have raised. Please understand the difference here. Similarly, Public banks shouldn’t create money through loans. Only the Sovereign Monetary Authority creates money. In the housing arena, the public bank needs to coordinate mortgages with the Monetary Authority. Public banks can get money from the state pension funds too.
“In my world, public banking is a core part of the system of governance… private finance folk have a seat at the table of global risk management and resource allocation…”
I am in sync with your intent. No difference there. However, the best way to prevent the abuse of POWER is by decentralization. Competition improves the service quality. We need to limit private finance to providing banking services only, and away from the monetary arena. No bailout for the private and public sector.
Please define the functions performed by the “public banks.” In our nation (U$A), our ingenuity is our greatest STRENGTH and our creative people, our great asset. What enables us to excel in this arena in addition to great entrepreneurs? Multiple ways to raise funding. This is also the case in China and Russia. When an individual comes up with an idea at a company, most likely their company won’t fund them. So they leave the job and raise funding from outside, most likely presenting to more than ten funds. In the scenario, you’re proposing, the public banks won’t fund them as they don’t have assets. How will they gain funds to build their venture? What happens in China in the new venture creation arena?
Please answer my earlier question about, “What are the core challenges with regards to the monetary, economic and financial systems?” You’re missing the most foundational core issue of the monetary sphere.

Posted by: Max | Jun 23 2021 17:44 utc | 160

It would appear the McAfee Saga has come to an end with his death in a Spanish prison, thus again begging the question: Where’s the investigation into the Clinton’s? McAfee famously stated that if he was to be pronounced dead via suicide to view that as a lie and his death as a murder.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 23 2021 20:53 utc | 162

karlof1 @Jun23 20:53 #162: death in a Spanish prison
Tom_Q_Collins @Jun23 21:03 #163: … might have been Epsteined.
Yeah, I thought his beef was with USA not Spain. So I would’ve thought that if McAfee was going to kill himself (to make a point or just annoy authorities) that he’d have done it in a USA prison.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 23 2021 22:14 utc | 164

Jonathan Cook nails internet censorship and hasbara again:
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2021-06-05/tech-israel-muzzle-palestinians/
The rats always hide when the lights are turned on.

Posted by: Paul | Jun 24 2021 7:10 utc | 166

john @Jun24 13:04 #167: RIP [video]
IMO McAfee’s concern with ‘Deep State’ bureaucrats isn’t likely to have got him ‘Epsteined’.
His rant in this video falls flat because: 1) the regulations that he rails on about stem from laws that are passed, and 2) the vast amount of so-called “unaccountable” bureaucrats have little to no power.
The power of the “Deep State” lies with power-elite that control the Deep State institutions that McAfee mentions (SEC, CIA, FBI, etc.). That power-elite is indeed beyond politics and is hierarchical in nature.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 24 2021 13:39 utc | 168

Jackrabbit @ 168
His rant in this video falls flat because…
It seems to me his rant says pretty much exactly what you said…
…but since the details of his death is and will remain all conjecture, I’d posit that the prospect of being humiliated and tortured inside the Federal prison system for the rest of his days was enough incentive for him to make a pragmatic decision. He certainly had the temerity.

Posted by: john | Jun 24 2021 14:41 utc | 170

@ psychohistorian (#165),
There is too much generalization and grouping in your comment. Please define “public finance” and “private finance” and define their key elements & characteristics. Also, at the core of any system are people/values, institutions/regulatory-framework and mechanism/activities. Without majority of the populace with integrity nothing works, as the system gets corrupted, captured and controlled. What do you see are strengths and weaknesses of these two financial (public & private) spheres?
The “sovereign finance” to me is when a sovereign authority creates money and manages its allocation at the creation and regulation. They’re the monetary system. However, economic & financial systems are different from the sovereign finance aspect. Assume a small business owner, who wants to sell their business. In the present system, they get a financial broker who finds them a buyer and might also bring some local investors together. This selling of the business transaction and its financing, is the private finance service in my view. Are you saying that this business owner needs to go through a public finance/bank to sell their business?
The existing private money creation system has been captured, corrupted and controlled by the Global Financial Syndicate. This is the key driving force of our world that is turning nations into suzerainties and privatization of their economy. This doesn’t mean private finance is bad. Also, cartels and monopolies are bad. Power corrupts and it is better to have check and balances along with competition.
Please answer all the questions asked before we engage further. They’re their to enhance understanding of each other’s perspectives.

Posted by: Max | Jun 24 2021 16:51 utc | 172

@ Max | Jun 24 2021 16:51 utc | 172
I posit that all finance should be a public utility.
I posit that private finance has no socially redeeming qualities.
If there are financial transactions to perform the parties go to the bank which is a public utility in my world but you think that there is some magic to private finance and I call BS.
End of conversation.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 24 2021 19:43 utc | 174

@ Max | Jun 24 2021 20:04 utc | 175
SWIFT and the BIS are private organizations. Yes, I am proposing that all financial transactions are handled by sovereign entities as a public service to society.
You haven’t been here for years so let me repeat a few other beliefs….need to neuter or eliminate inheritance. Need to make private real property ownership be leases from the sovereign nations Public Commons. Need to replace usury with good system of risk management and resource allocation with debt forgiveness like China is doing on annual basis.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 1:25 utc | 176

@176 psychohistorian
Excuse the interjection. I hadn’t fully understood the full portfolio of your ideals, and I’m glad to be able to do so now. I like the picture you paint. It’s larger than I thought we were talking about with regard to private finance.
I have always thought we were discussing the sole matter of the non-sovereign issue of legal tender, which I believe we all agree is a sovereign prerogative that should remain under sovereign agency and not be franchised to private bankers.
I like what Max suggests, which is that if the money of a nation is created through sovereign agency, then any entity that manages to accumulate or hold some of that money should be free to loan it or invest it in any way it chooses. And if the only matter under discussion is the sovereign issue of money, then this seems reasonable to me.
But if the platform contains all the planks you advocate, then it seems the canvas gets much larger. And it will become even more important to be clear on the matter of the sovereign issue of money – I think there are some people who could settle for that one plank of the platform and not care so much for the other planks. And if they were lost to the larger platform, they would still be a gain if allied with that one plank.
So it becomes very important to spell out these distinctions at every step.
I hope this interjection is valuable. I really want this discussion to continue – and over successive threads, by all means – and to remain collegial as we hammer out the exact planks and platforms we’re agreeing on.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 3:13 utc | 178

@ Max and Grieved about inheritance
Please note I wrote neuter or eliminate inheritance.
I stated it that way because I believe that unfettered inheritance is how the private finance folk have maintained their increasing control and personally I have seen way too much inherited entitlement in my life time to not believe it feeds wealth-based discrimination/better-than-others attitudes.
I wrote eliminate inheritance because I want to bring up the core support for the inheritance values and explore other societal ways of meeting those needs….we can’t fix things by using the same tools that made the sickness we have….Einstein wrote similar
It would be interesting to know about the evolution os what China is doing with this subject…..what really is happening/has happened with Jack Ma?
So wade in with defense of “private property” or other evolutions other than lease arrangements that may vary between residential, commercial and industrial, agricultural, ???

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 3:43 utc | 180

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 3:43 utc | 180
Yes, I agree with you, inheritance law is what allows or does not allow the accumulation of these great family fortunes. And trusts.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 25 2021 4:11 utc | 182

@ Max | Jun 25 2021 4:03 utc | 181
I read that you assume a corrupt government so they can’t be trusted to hold/provide limited store-of-value utility and I disagree that this is a given….read about how China is dealing with corruption and their secular meritocracy government
Every large accumulation of wealth that I have seen close up included significant support from government and public utilities like roads, sewer, water, electricity, etc. to the point where I question how much externalities of the accumulation of that wealth do not owe back to the society that supports its creation/existence.
I am not against private enterprise and believe that it constitutes over 50% of mixed economies. What I am against is structural impediments to health/education/income/opportunity equality and IMO, global private finance is that core structural impediment and unfettered inheritance is one of the legs of its ongoing support.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2021 4:30 utc | 184

And thinking about inheritance.
You could make the argument that the society as a whole with its laws and agreements allows the accumulation of capital, and that leaving this accumulation to another generation is a way of taking it out of the system that supported you in the making of it, a way of not paying the dues to be charged for a lifetime of protection.
I like the argument, but you’d have to make it very soundly and completely, because not everyone would be convinced.
I also think that when interest is eliminated from capital, a lot of the inheritance leverage would tend to disappear. This is what Max is saying, take away the interest, make money sovereign in issuance, and a lot of evils disappear.
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And also, to what psychohistorian is saying, much of this is political policy. And we need to remember that economics was always called “political economy” and for a good reason.
When the source money is sovereign, the regulation of the way it can be used falls naturally into sovereign politics.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 4:50 utc | 186

And one last thought before disappearing for the day – a lot of the political decision is based on a sense of, what are sensible limits, what comports with natural human life?
We see immortal corporate vehicles transferring ownership rights on capital across national borders and across eons of time. And perhaps these transfers are larger than the human systems they transcend? Untrammeled financial license is what we want to stop.
Therefore, what kind of portability of capital is acceptable? What can one family leave to its heirs and assigns such that society feels this is a great gift to make, a productive inheritance to leave? What crosses this line and shifts wealth that belongs to one generation of the whole society into the next generation of society, unbalanced, without paying the cost of earning?
It would be good to debate these questions, because in so doing we would automatically re-establish the notion that society truly does have the right to make these decisions, and to place these limits on the actors and accumulations that take form within its tenure.
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This is the realm of thought that China operates within. It hardly matters what the system is called, it’s the jurisdiction that matters, and China says that these decisions belong to society.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 5:10 utc | 188

@187 psychohistorian – “If private banks are allowed to continue”
I think nothing we’re discussing works if private banks continue to create the money supply as debt. It seems all other proposals become meaningless without this core feature, namely, of sovereign money issued by a nation free of interest, as a public utility.
It doesn’t seem that we can contemplate any other features of the economic system without sovereign money.
Other features are worthy to contemplate, but they all fail without sovereign money.
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And of course, on reflection, in the US its constitution does prescribe sovereign money, delegating that power to Congress to issue money and regulate weights and measures. A very orderly system they prescribed, such as any sovereign would.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 5:20 utc | 190

“central planning in Wall Street – or is the government going to plan?”
good question… so far – wall st is winning hands down! freedom for wall st, and slavery for everyone else..

Posted by: james | Jun 25 2021 15:24 utc | 192