Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 24, 2021

Open Thread 2021-048

News & views ...

Posted by b on June 24, 2021 at 13:18 UTC | Permalink

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Girard Series, Part 2: Fascism and the Antifestival Charles Eisenstein

a quote from the article - "The priests are the scientists. The wand is the PCR test swab. The unclean are those who test positive. The potion is the vaccine. My point is not that Covid is nothing but a religious hysteria. My point is that, whatever else Covid is, it is also a religious hysteria; that this lens greatly illuminates our current condition and quite probably upcoming events. Our social responses to Covid bear so striking a resemblance to ritual practices and ideas (masks, potions, tabooed persons, sanctification, etc.) that we have to ask how much of our public health policy is really scientific, and how much is religion in disguise. It might even lead to a deeper question: how and whether science differs from (other) religions. "

Posted by: james | Jun 25 2021 4:29 utc | 101

james 101 ?

Overall mortality rates are relatively low so long as good medical care is provided, but it cuts through the elderly and those with certain health conditions like a hot knife through butter. In China, before much was known about how to treat it many younger people died, including those that went to give assistance, doctors nurses ect.

This like SARS 1 could easily have been eradicated, but other than China and a number of other Asian countries, the rest did nothing. It was designed to spread and spread fear, but that doesn't mean normal medial and hygiene procedures should be dumped. To me it means those that planned this and wanted/allowed a pandemic should be hung from bridges for all to see.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2021 4:52 utc | 102

All palaces need to be turned into Airbnb units. Let’s see how China and Russia play the game. Time will tell.

Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 4:29 utc | 100

I would fix them up for safety and then leave them sit as monuments/reminders to/of the stupid things people do when they get too full of themselves. But yeah, a curse on the planet.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 25 2021 5:00 utc | 103

Max 100

I divide history into two parts. Pre WWII and the advent of the first nuclear weapon, and post WWII and the nuclear age. Before nuclear weapons, wars between great powers would kill many and cause great hardship, but there was no threat of destroying all life. WWII and the advent of the nuclear bomb should have been the war to end all wars. The time of great power wars should have passed. But the US and five-eyes it seems have kept on living in a bygone era. Living dinosaurs. With the deployment of Russia's next G weapons systems, perhaps the US will be dissuaded from loosing off some nukes. I won't see it, but I look forward to the advent of the multi-polar world for my children and their families.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2021 5:15 utc | 104

To Ghost Ship and anyone interested in nuclear power plants general information.

There is a recent British documentary television series named "Building Britain's Biggest Nuclear Power Station" that might interest you if you have the opportunity to watch it. Unless I've messed up the names the power station is the "Hinkley Point C" being built right next to the decommissioned 1965-2000 Hinkley Point A (the later B is still operational) which was similar to the 1962-2002 Bradwell nuclear power plant in the Flicker photo album that Ghost Ship linked to earlier in the recent thread named "Another 'Nuclear Iran' Claim By David Albright Gets Debunked". This new power plant is a French-Chinese-British project.

Unless I'm jumbling it up with some other source it also mentioned that the same kind of power plant has been built and started in China and there are two more current projects of the same nature in Finland and France which haven't yet gotten started (or something like that).

On second thought that might have been a Wikipedia page on the specific reactor type or maybe the power plant itself (have a search if interested).

Disclaimer: I've only seen part of the beginning, perhaps half an hour of the first of two episodes (perhaps there will be more in the future as construction continues over the next few years) but will try to find the time somewhere in the future when I have sufficient attention for it. It was BBC2 (I would have though Channel 5 or ITV but nope BBC2 it is) and I've found its home page.

While searching I saw in the results that the Grauniad proclaimed it a bore fest "so bad it's good" (or to that effect) but I found it interesting and not bad at all but no one should expect to become a nuclear or structural engineer just because they watched it any more than anyone instantly becomes a biologist or environmentalist by watching animal documentaries :)

What I saw of the first episode mostly showed some of the creation of (and mentions a few details about) the foundations, in particular one of the two "nuclear islands" (it will have two reactors).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 25 2021 5:57 utc | 105

About nuclear weapons, "last war", the US etc. I'm confident that in addition to real hypersonics one can throw super-cavitation, "radio spectrum" (not only electronic warfare), and plasma weapons (again the same) onto the stack of ABC/NBC/WMD/whatever one calls it —and those are already all grown up by now and not truly "black" so there is bound to be more.

The world moves on despite the public and political media narrative being stuck somewhere in-between 1956 and 1969 (or is that all most people can handle? Is it a natural effect? Simply keeping as much as possible away from the politicians?).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 25 2021 6:24 utc | 106

karlofi@81

Looking at the video you posted of the Florida condo collapse the bright flashes as it comes down seem to suggest a controlled demolition. False flag or insurance scam?.....

Posted by: Emmanuel Goldstein | Jun 25 2021 6:49 utc | 107

Sunny Runny Burger

Well the problem with nuclear weapons is that is all the US has and would use them if it thought it could survive the return fire.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2021 7:23 utc | 108

It looks like DNA sequences from early in the Wuhan epidemic have been deleted in order to obfuscate the origin of SARS-CoV-2. Fact or propaganda?

Posted by: m | Jun 25 2021 8:05 utc | 109

You are a total clown posting that here m. "I recover the deleted files from the Google Cloud" ... what childish crap.

Lavrov
"Another area of focus when it comes to the non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction is the need to reinforce, as best we can, the Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production and Stockpiling of Bacteriological (Biological) and Toxin Weapons. We have been proposing this for decades now, but the United States has consistently and stubbornly avoided discussing the creation of this universal mechanism. In the meantime, it is expanding its military biological activities by way of creating military biological labs, including along Russia’s borders."

China is doing a lot of questioning over US bio warfare labs and I think Russia is too. Covid is far to conveniently timed for the US attack on China.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2021 8:46 utc | 110

a number of interesting issues addressed by Campbell here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wd5Ig8IDPI

just wondering, if everyone starts using Ivermectin, won't its efficacy against parasitaries reduced?

Posted by: Mina | Jun 25 2021 9:36 utc | 111

karlof1 @ 81

I don't see where anyone has provided a link to the video showing the pancaking of the Florida Condo building, so here it is and as you can see it occurs almost like the Twin Towers

Well, since you brought it up, no, the two incidents couldn't be more different.

Here is an image of the partial collapse of the 12 story condo in Florida.

Here is a shot across the lobby area of WTC1, a 110 story skyscraper, from September 12th or 13th, 2001.

It's a real shame that in 20 years the discussion of what happened in NYC on that fateful day hasn't progressed one iota, and this after one of the most crystalline moments in American journalism that I have ever seen.

Posted by: john | Jun 25 2021 10:03 utc | 112

karlof1 @ 81

I don't see where anyone has provided a link to the video showing the pancaking of the Florida Condo building, so here it is and as you can see it occurs almost like the Twin Towers

Well, since you brought it up, no, the two incidents couldn't be more different.

Here's a shot across the lobby area of WTC1, a 110 story skyscraper, probably shot on 9/11(I love the ambulance...essentially without a scratch).

It's a real shame that in 20 years the discussion of what happened in NYC on that fateful day hasn't progressed one iota, and this after one of the most crystalline moments in American journalism that I have ever seen.

Posted by: john | Jun 25 2021 10:53 utc | 113

@109 m
You again prove to be a lying moron. The paper does not claim that the data were removed "in order to obfuscate".

Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 25 2021 11:04 utc | 114

Grieved @ 80

My source of information for how the Larouchies behaved when they disrupted leftist meetings would be I was at those meetings. My views on their sartorial choices come from seeing them.

Again, NCLC never existed. It was hysterical listening to the clowns delivering their longwinded speeches about their origins in SDS when everyone else in the room was SDS. And in 1967 it was quite a small organization and everybody did know everybody else. Same for the ostensible PL connection. And they report being purged from meetings and organizations where they had never been seen.

To the extent there is anything coherent in their voluminous ramblings it is merely a sign that the project is well funded. Also a symptom of how trivial mainstream and mainstream left discourse has become. Should you invest any time in discovering who they are it will not take long to discover there is nothing there. Nothing at all. Smoke and mirrors.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 25 2021 11:23 utc | 115

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 25 2021 11:23 utc | 114

I'm not too picky or sophisticated when it comes to sartorial matters, but shoes I do care about them since I love walking and I have to take good care of my feet. You did awake my curiosity about how comfortable FBI shoes might be or look like ;)

News from Winston Smith tube, another hero hits the tube, seems like Roman and his girl friend are now under house arrest and they've been walking around Minsk. So much for the death penalty and Luka's bloody regime, but they follow the path of the Savchenkos Babchenkos and all those glorious heroes for a day, once they've used away the go, but sanctions stay that goes without saying.

https://t.me/zheltyeslivy/18928

Posted by: Paco | Jun 25 2021 11:45 utc | 116

Iran was the second country majorly hit after China. I think that says everything we need to know about the origins and purpose of Covid.

Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Jun 25 2021 11:48 utc | 117

Mina @ 111:

Ivermectin is used against a huge variety of parasites including nematodes and even mites. From my own reading online, including Wikipedia, it's most effective against the parasite (protozoan?) that causes onchocerciasis (river blindness) in Africa.

While parasites are under selection pressure from Ivermectin (and I understand that since its invention in the 1970s, Ivermectin has become less effective in treating some parasitical diseases), they probably don't evolve as fast as viruses do. Viral DNA and RNA seem to be much, much less stable than the DNA of more complex organisms and microorganisms.

I think what you really want to know is whether Ivermectin ends up being abused by the medical establishment and the general public as an all-round wonder drug. Provided that the drug is used only for what it is prescribed for, in the quantities and frequency specified by the doctor, and the whole drug is taken for the appropriate length of time (and never shared with family and friends), the virus or parasite targeted by the drug would be eliminated in the patient. The natural selection pressure leading to a more resistant virus or parasite (because the full course wasn't taken so not all the targeted bugs were killed or the drug was given to someone else with a sickness not normally treated with Ivermectin) won't take place.

Using Ivermectin against viruses itself (it's already being used to treat some tropical viral diseases like dengue) wouldn't affect its effectiveness against parasites.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 25 2021 11:50 utc | 118

Thanks Jen, I was wondering actually whether if millions of ppl started to use it as a prophylaxis, would it still be efficient (actually, in both the parasites and the covid). If I understand you correctly, probably not.
In France, the box cost 10 euros for what should be 1 day of treatment of a 60 kg person. So that is still far too expensive to generalize it. But then, if efficient against some water- and mosquitoes- related diseases, it would be actually a real loss for some countries.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 25 2021 12:09 utc | 119

Mina
WHO had a web page on ivermectin but the page is down at the moment. When I read it a number of years ago, it was widely used to treat a number of parasitic diseases especially in third world countries. Until then I had only known it as a veterinary product.
Back liner for cattle, horses ect to treat parasites. Soaks in to the bloodstream through the skin. Would clean up dogs. Worms, fleas, ticks, ect. I suspect that between animals and humans it would be close to the moist widely used drug in the world to treat disease.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2021 12:22 utc | 120

Paco @ 115

FBI shoes back then were plain toe lace up oxfords or bluchers. Always black and shined. The basic design has been unchanged a long time which should be because it works. Mailmen used to wear them. A few still do.

I always figured the characters who showed up to meetings were agents in training. Taking acting lessons in front of an audience that was not discriminating. And no one cared if the performance got bad reviews. They always worked in teams, talked loud, when one forgot his lines or got stumped the next would pick up the screaming and shouting.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 25 2021 12:48 utc | 121

I didnt realize it has a name -
https://www.rt.com/russia/527459-naryshkin-mcis-america-totalitarian-dictatorship/

Liberal-Totalitarianism.
Im not usual into labels as they are normally predudicial and amorphous, but this one seems to nail it.

There where were claims that the GPS was malfunctioning just prior the UK adventure in the waters of the Crimea. Any further detail on that?

The analogy of the bear seems fitting as they are larger, generally not threatening, intelligent and quite powerful.

I suppose the UK acting for its owners would be the serpent.

Posted by: jared | Jun 25 2021 12:53 utc | 122

I read and heard contradictory news.

One explains a remark by Biden that "China is squeezing Russia". A video was refuting "false claims" that the contract for supplying China with gas offers such a low price that ... it would be an example of squeezing. In fact, claimed presumed Russian patriots, the price, 16c for a cubic meter, is higher than in similar contracts with European customers.

Second story is that on the European gas exchange (where? lazy to check) the price reached 36c. A truffle for the mighty European economy, even if you multiply it by hundred (two hundred?) billion. But not a trifle if you live in Ukraine and your monthly utility payment have effectively a formula "European exchange + distribution + etc." Both Ukrainians and the bulk (?? not verified) refrained from long term contracts that would give lower price mentioned in the first video.

Part of the reason for shortage is that Gazprom uses only the guaranteed minimum (play or pay) of Ukrainian pipeline capacity. The increase of their supplies will come when additional parts of NS-2 will be completed. Of course, the balance of the demand is fulfilled by the abundant LNG. In short, "energy independence" is a feasible goal, but not cheap when you multiply cents by hundreds of billions.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 25 2021 12:58 utc | 123

bulk (?? not verified) refrained from long term contracts that would give lower price mentioned in the first video. --> bulk of European customers

Additional remark: high oil prices are returning, in part because of vaccinations. Russia is not such an unimportant country as a year ago, "economy smaller than Italy". BTW, what do Italians think about being used, effectively, in comparisons "as unimportant as Italy"? What if the offended states form alliance of three Romes, Italy, Turkey, Russia?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 25 2021 13:05 utc | 124

PeterAU1 @ 110

I'm sure those who really know things in the US know that they are lagging far behind Russia (and in some fields China) in all sorts of conventional and nuclear weaponry, and because of refusing to fund and incentivize education in math and physics may simply never be able to truly catch up. But because of the vast profits in US medicine, and the fact that Russia actually curtailed research in bio-warfare fields during their 20 years of weakness, I suspect they feel biological weapons are one field where they still have the upper hand. Plus of course the benefits of deniability, etc. And their hubris makes them think they can control them. I've always had the suspicion that the US is so fixated on refining mRNA vaccine technology not just because it is vastly more profitable for them, but also because it promises the ability to be very quickly fine-tuned and produced for any given virus--sounds like a DARPA experiment writ large. I suspect they're using this "opportunity" to test and perfect a technology whose sole advantage over traditional vaccines is it would be better suited to quickly matching a bioweapon.

And yes, there will always be things that are nearly impossible to prove beyond any doubt, but I agree that the evidence suggests it is much more likely Covid was a bio-attack on China than that it wasn't, so I'll tend to believe that unless and until the evidence starts to accumulate in the other direction.

Posted by: J Swift | Jun 25 2021 13:25 utc | 125

max @ 44, you suggest that the US has a good (or memorable) definition of world polarity in its framing of issues as "democracies vs. autocracies", and you say about China and Russia's global conflict framing that they need a tag line. I would suggest that it be framed not as "this vs. that", but rather as "this and that".

I was struck earlier by whoever it was giving the explanation that in governmental matters Iran follows Plato's Republic. Apologies for not remembering who said that, a commentor or an article, but it struck home. That dialogue takes a study of human virtue and blows it up larger into the creation of the 'ideal' state, because it will be easier thereby to understand human virtue. Whether or not that ideal state can come to be, nonetheless, in the activity of the dialogue lessons are learned about human virtue on the smaller stage of human interaction.

First lesson: humility. [Thrasymachus, the tyrant in the group, blushes.]

For the great powers, as for individuals, the better course is forbearance. Time is on the side of that, has been from the beginning. Putin's memorial speech which I referenced earlier points to the terrible years of Russia's past, when different groups of people were being victimized because of who they were, what they had done. Peter AU here explained that was not Putin's approach to governing. He didn't try to eliminate the oligarchs. Like FDR, he gave them a choice. Work for the state, or leave the state. You do not and cannot own it. We, the state, know you would love to own us, but we, the state, say no.

The time to say no needs to happen before things fall completely apart. It's not clear that it will, but it really must.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 25 2021 13:30 utc | 126

john @Jun25 10:53 #112: crystalline moments

Peter Jennings is mistaken. The view that he is referring to is not of the WTC site/debris field. The view is of an area north of the WTC.

I know the area well because I used to work there.

It took months to clear the debris from the WTC site and hundreds of workers that participated in that cleanup suffered health problems after working the site. The government declared the site safe despite the obvious health hazards. AFAIK no one has ever been held accountable for that lie.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2021 13:30 utc | 127

@113 aquadraht
"Obfuscate" is the term that the author used in the article. Several times.

You should actually read an article before commenting on it.

Posted by: m | Jun 25 2021 13:51 utc | 128

Posted by: juliania | Jun 25 2021 13:30 utc | 125

"For the great powers, as for individuals, the better course is forbearance. Time is on the side of that, has been from the beginning. Putin's memorial speech which I referenced earlier points to the terrible years of Russia's past, when different groups of people were being victimized because of who they were, what they had done. Peter AU here explained that was not Putin's approach to governing. He didn't try to eliminate the oligarchs. Like FDR, he gave them a choice. Work for the state, or leave the state. You do not and cannot own it. We, the state, know you would love to own us, but we, the state, say no.

The time to say no needs to happen before things fall completely apart. It's not clear that it will, but it really must."

Thank you Juliania, humility and forbearance are never a mistake. All those people who whine about Putin being a p**sy always neglect to examine his results in the process. The Chinese have done well that way, too, long on work and short on bluster and theater. The West on the other hand is awash in long-range mouth-fighters, grifters, and people playing a part. Short term thinkers, arrogant to a fault.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 25 2021 14:01 utc | 129

Jackrabbit @ 126

Peter Jennings is mistaken

Nice try dude, but you're mistaken, again. Jenning's is referring to ground zero, obviously, and even says so quite explicitly...

"We see all of this live video and these live pictures of where the towers used to stand..."

It took months to clear the debris from the WTC site...

Yeah, but the shot I provided was taken on that fateful morning.

Let's juxtapose it with a couple of shots of the rubble pile in Miami...where a 12 story condo partially collapsed.

Posted by: john | Jun 25 2021 14:15 utc | 130

Re: Florida building collapse.
I watched SBS.com.au News and ABC.net.au News tonight. The coverage was completely different.

-SBS reported that the building is the subject of a Repair & Rectify Order to get re-certification for its use as an apartment building. The main fault mentioned was extensive rust in the steel reinforcing. There have been contractors at the site for an unspecified period of time and the work is ongoing. So this collapse occurred during rectification works. There was mention of Florida's sandy substrate not being the ideal foundation BUT it's a normal condition for every building in that part of Florida.

ABC.net.au did NOT mention the rectification work currently being performed on the building but did mention the sandy substrate and the expert opinion that it's normal for Florida and isn't an excuse for a collapse. ABC's report mentioned recent new building construction not far from the collapsed building - which is a pretty dopey and irrelevant thing to say. So ABC have classified the collapse as an 'Unsolved Mystery'.

Restoring the structural integrity of a reinforced concrete building infected with Concrete Cancer (rusting steel reinforcing) is a tedious task. Fortunately, seaside buildings usually only get cancer in structural components exposed to weather. But you can't yank the steel out of the concrete and replace it with new steel. You have to prop the structure, demolish the faulty elements, and build new elements, ensuring that they are adequately integrated (connected to) with the existing structure.
So, plenty of room for error, especially with US bosses' addiction to cheap unskilled labor and Laissez Faire supervision.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 25 2021 14:35 utc | 131

Bellingcat in the Gaza strip

This is distasteful. It's the tactic of making a false claim and using that false claim to prove that the other side is lying.

1. The offense: The NYT published the profile pictures of 60 Palestinian children killed by the IAF.

2. The false claim: aha, the lying Palestinians gave the NYT fake pictures because they showed the same girl being killed in 2017. How can someone be killed twice? (ha-ha-ha)
U.S. columnists picks up Hasbara post, https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2021/06/01/surprise-child-death-toll-claimed-by-hamas-looking-increasingly-suspect-n2590255
Twitter post proving that Hamas is lying, https://twitter.com/HusseinAboubak/status/1398474191364558850

3. The false claim is indeed a false claim.
These are the facebook photos cited by the twitter author showing the girl, first in 2017 and then he found an earlier one in 2015. The only problem is that neither of the photos claims she is dead. They are just photos of a living girl.
6/15/2017 https://www.facebook.com/5twt.hd2a.205/photos/a.291849024206581/1308051269253013
10/14/2015 https://www.facebook.com/595175237257819/photos/pb.100063585453421.-2207520000../788975567877784/?type=3
The profile of the earlier FB post in 2014 is especially interesting because it belongs to a photographer. If you look at his page he has a hundred or more pictures of children on his page. Maiar Abu Shalback (photographer profile ) https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063585453421

They all look like beautiful, living happy children and none are claimed to be deceased in 2014.
------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: A professional photographer photographed this victim while she was alive about 6yrs ago. After she was killed, someone decided to use this picture of her. She looks to be about 8yrs old, she was 15 when she was murdered.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jun 25 2021 14:43 utc | 132

Follow-up @Jun25 13:30 #126

These are the true "crystalline moments" wrt 9-11 are these:

  • PNAC's call for a "new pearl harbor";
  • the free-fall of WTC7;
  • the urgent need to clear the debris field asap - even though it was unsafe to do so;
  • dancing Israeli's coupled with Larry Silverstein's purchase of WTC:

    • these weren't just any Israeli's, at least some of them appear to have been connected to Israeli intelligence;
    • Larry's Lucky Day:

      • Silverstein got more than a billion dollars more in insurance payout than he had paid for the 99-year WTC lease (only weeks before 9-11): Silverstein paid $3.2 billion for the lease and received $4.55 billion insurance.
      • Silverstein has said in interviews that he usually spent his mornings in breakfast meetings at Windows on the World on top of the World Trade Center North Tower, and with new tenants in the building. However, the morning of September 11, 2001, his wife insisted that he attend a medical appointment. Due to the appointment, he escaped almost certain death.

        Wouldn't he have made the medical appointment for later in the day if it was his habit to have breakfast meetings?


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2021 14:58 utc | 133

john @Jun25 14:15 #130

Jennings is referring to the "live shot" that is being broadcast at the time.

He mistakenly thinks it's a live shot of ground zero.

<> <> <> <>

See my comment @Jun25 14:58 #133

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2021 15:02 utc | 134

@ Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2021 4:52 utc | 102... i like how he has framed science with regard to covid as a new type religion... that's all.. i don't believe he is challenging the nature of covid itself... just how people are given over to beliefs that can't be challenged once they become the accepted norm..

Posted by: james | Jun 25 2021 15:39 utc | 135

Jackrabbit @ 134

Jennings is referring to the "live shot" that is being broadcast at the time.

He mistakenly thinks it's a live shot of ground zero

You're obfuscating. Jennings isn't a fucking idiot. I guess I have to spell it out(further) for you...

"...Jackie Judd, our correspondent, umm, in Washington has sent me an email a short while ago and she really speaks to what's been puzzling enormous numbers of us. We see all of this video and these live pictures of where the towers used to stand, but the question is, where is all the rubble..."

Posted by: john | Jun 25 2021 15:51 utc | 136

China has published a new White Paper, "China's Political Party System: Cooperation and Consultation," which I'm sure a host of barflies will want to read. You'll need to download the Word doc from here. It begins thusly:

"The system of multiparty cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC) is a basic element of China’s political framework. A new model grown out of the soil of China, it also learns from other countries and absorbs the fruits of their political achievements. The Constitution of the People’s Republic of China stipulates, “The system of multiparty cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the Communist Party of China will continue and develop long into the future.

"In this system, in addition to the CPC, there are eight other political parties: the Revolutionary Committee of the Chinese Kuomintang, the China Democratic League, the China National Democratic Construction Association, the China Association for Promoting Democracy, the Chinese Peasants and Workers Democratic Party, the China Zhi Gong Party, the Jiusan Society, and the Taiwan Democratic Self-Government League. The system also includes prominent individuals without affiliation to any of the political parties (hereinafter referred to as “non-affiliates”).

"Following the principles of long-term coexistence, mutual oversight, sincerity, and sharing the rough times and the smooth, the CPC and the other political parties have created a multiparty cooperation system in which the CPC exercises state power and the other parties participate fully in the administration of state affairs under the leadership of the CPC."

So, when it's said China is a one-party system, the source is lying. I've just opened the doc, and I'm sure there'll be even more surprises. Oh, it says it's 45 screens long.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 25 2021 16:53 utc | 137

john @Jun25 15:51 #136

So you believe the rubble disappeared? What do you think happened to it?

Do you think dozens of ordinary people that were (supposedly!?) involved in removing the rubble were participating in some conspiracy? And they remained silent even after they were lied to and sickened by their participation?

And what do you make of the many videos that show a cloud of dust rising from the 9-11 site for hours/days afterward?

Is it logical that the collapse of a 110-story building will pulverize the concrete of lower floors while the collapse of a shorter building (like Miami Beach's 12-story building) only produces chunks?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2021 17:15 utc | 138

Regarding a mention upthread of the cost of Ivermectin. I wanted to pass along that I just today received a package from India with 100x12mg pills and 100x6mg pills of human grade Ivermectin. The total cost was $65 USD, which included $35 shipping cost.

No doubt the price markup in the civilized west is uncivilized.

For anyone who would like to know, I followed the link from the FLCCC website to indiamart.com, which opens to a search result for IVM, and multiple suppliers. I filled out the simple request for quotes for what I was looking for, and two suppliers responded. All this happens in the indiamart interface, which gives a great chat record of the transaction, and also copies to email.

I bought the items by credit card, the package traveled by postal mail, clearing India customs after about 3 days and getting to me in the States within the next week. I'm not trying to shill for any commercial entity, but it all worked and I thought you'd like to know.

~~

The bottom line is that I can park the apple-flavored substance from the feed store, and begin prophylaxis with tablets. Furthermore, if anyone in my circle gets symptoms, I have a way to help them. I want to emphasize that I'm not a doctor, and not giving medical advice, but I also want to emphasize that almost all of the actual doctors in my country are in thrall to big pharma, and in gross violation of their Hippocratic oath.

As Peter McCullough says, if any of these doctors ever wake up to the crime against humanity that they have participated in, they're going to be mortified, or whatever they'll feel as they try to live with themselves.

So we're on our own, as we all long ago concluded. Sorry if mass use of Ivermectin produces resistant strains in the future, but if we don't do it by trying to survive, Fort Detrick will probably do it for us in the next criminal caper.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 17:28 utc | 139

Spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry Maria Zakharova has already stated Russia has no doubts the USA is behind the UK's stunt in the Black Sea:

Impossible to imagine British destroyer’s actions weren’t agreed with US - Zakharova

There's no "cultural hatred for Russia" in the UK government (Crown), Craig Murray doesn't represent the official position of Her Majesty's Government.

If you rescue Anthony Blinken's recent speeches during his trips through the European Peninsula, you can clearly see that POTUS Joseph R. Biden Jr. has a new modus operandi in low intensity warfare against Russia-China: the USA is now "falling back" on the borderlands of these two countries' spheres of influence and calling for its provinces to hold the position while they do so. This may or may not translate into a permanent (i.e. offensive) tactic, that is, the USA could be entering in a phase where, depleted of financial resources and desperately needing to rebuild social cohesion at home (fix crumbling infrastructure, rising inequality etc. etc.), it will start to force its borderland provinces to serve as battering rams against Russia and possibly even China.

Either way, the reason Biden chose this change of tactics right now is obvious:

1) color revolutions have depleted themselves out of their potential. Arms race secured the target governments developed methods of defense against them, as we can observe in Belarus, Russia, China (HK) and even in the resurgence of the Left in Latin America;

2) the USA is low-key realizing it cannot hold its present position anymore. It is evacuating some of its most advanced - and precarious - provinces (Afghanistan, Ukraine, HK) so that it can consolidate/strengthen the provinces it already has (South Korea-Japan and the European Peninsula; Latin America).

Biden clearly sees himself as Aurelian evacuating Dacia, or even as Hadrian evacuating Mesopotamia. Thing is: he could well be Valens in Hadrianopolis.

Posted by: vk | Jun 25 2021 18:10 utc | 140

Jackrabbit @ 138

So you believe the rubble disappeared

I believe that the rubble pile was completely inadequate for buildings of that size. Apparently many others believe the same thing. This is of course based on the myriad videos, photos, and testimonials from the scene. The empirical evidence.

And what do you make of the many videos that show a cloud of dust rising from the 9-11 site for hours/days afterward

No doubt more of the anomalous dust that blanketed much of Lower Manhattan.

Is it logical that the collapse of a 110-story building will pulverize the concrete of lower floors

No, it's not. Certainly not to that extent and along with all the steel and everything else there within.

***

Until you've determined what happened, it's pointless to speculate about whodunnit and/or why. To this day we still don't know.

Posted by: john | Jun 25 2021 18:30 utc | 141

It looks like DNA sequences from early in the Wuhan epidemic have been deleted in order to obfuscate the origin of SARS-CoV-2. Fact or propaganda?

Posted by: m | Jun 25 2021 8:05 utc | 109

Judging from the link provided by m, it is propaganda.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 25 2021 19:15 utc | 142

john @Jun25 18:30 #141

Until you've determined what happened, it's pointless to speculate about whodunnit and/or why. To this day we still don't know.

You're kidding, right?

I think it's clear to the rest of us that, after the Cold War was won, Israel wanted USA support for remaking the middle east to their liking. Jewish neocons studied the matter and determined that a "new pearl harbor" would be necessary. 9-11 conveniently provided that transformational event, which Israeli operatives celebrated as it happened and a pro-Israel Jewish billionaire profited from handsomely (luckily avoiding death as well). Later, NY Times columnist Tom Friedman told Haaretz:

Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.

It seems clear that GWBush & Co were complicit. They were warned about threats of an attack but did little, and then they lied USA into war with Iraq ( Yellowcake !!!! ). There are reports that GWBush was angling for a war war with Saddam's Iraq even before 9-11. Probably to finish what his father had started and to protect his girls (who Saddam had threatened). And the taking down of WTC7 benefited certain US interests (like Arthur Andersen). Even so, it seems clear that Israel got what it wanted. The "peace dividend" from the Cold War would never happen, USA military would be deployed to the Middle East instead.

This is not academic. At moa, we have talked about how USA involvement in Middle East distracted the Empire from the important task of getting the post-cold war relationship with Russia and China right. Imagine if USA had put the money wasted on the Iraq War into supporting Russia's transition to a market economy? Maybe Russia would not have turned to China. Now the Empire faces its worst nightmare: a united Russia and China.

And Israel still tries to manipulate USA into fighting its wars (Syria and Iran).

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2021 19:22 utc | 143

Thanks Grieved, i ll check the website. The bbc said yesterday the uk is going to trial ivm. seems they know they ll soon be in deep s...t with the supporters of the euro coming back, apart from their other vacationers in southern europe, who just as last year have managed to reimport the virus into portugal...(but the same with the germans in spain, search for the cluster of spanish students who travelled to majorqua).
Maybe Spain and Portugal will find out that relying on tourism only is not sustainable.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 25 2021 19:37 utc | 144

EU hypocrisy at its best
https://northafricapost.com/50636-european-union-does-not-recognize-covishield-vaccine.html

covishield is the astra zeneca produced in india with intl funding for worldwide distribution.... the EU gives it to poor countries but does not recognize it.

it s all about migrations.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 25 2021 20:01 utc | 145

Jackrabbit @ 143

They were warned about threats of an attack but did little

Yes, along with the Russians and the Germans, the Israelis also warned us...

...but this is clearly going nowhere, which of course is the point, so goodnight.

When you can tell me what happened, maybe we'll continue.

Posted by: john | Jun 25 2021 20:06 utc | 146

@ Peter AU1 (#104),

Before discussing tactics, please state, what are Financial Empire’s goals and future plans for Russia?

The Dollar Empire successfully outsmarted the Soviet Union by driving oil prices down and exploiting internal challenges to bring it down. Nations without imagination think of nuclear wars as the first tactic to capture a nation. It then installed Yeltsin and didn’t care about Russia until Vladimir Putin declared Russia’s sovereignty.

Even now the Financial Empire thinks, time is on its side. It wants to hurt Putin’s reputation and create internal and external challenges, until it doesn’t have to deal with him. According to the NATO Bloc, “The alliance now seems to have taken Putin up on his favorite game: seeing who blinks first.”

Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 20:13 utc | 147

Roman Protasiewich and his girlfriend Sofia Sapega (Sapieha? Russian spelling the same, Sapieha is a very historical name for the Grand Duchy of Lithuania) are released from arrests for so-called "home arrests", but the conditions are not particularly strict, they were seen walking together in a park.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 25 2021 20:16 utc | 148

@ juliania (#126),

Please don’t misconstrue. I am saying, China and Russia aren’t addressing their negative framing and thereby not winning the hearts and minds of the populace. They’re letting this negative framing stay. I didn’t say anything else. Also, in the information warfare China and Russia aren’t leading but following in a passive way.

In the information arena, it is not about forbearance but defining the FRAMING. No one is questioning Vladimir Putin’s accomplishments in the defense, trade or de-dollarization. In the communication space, he needs to come across as a leader, clearly articulating vision for Russia, global relationships and principles. Just analyze Putin’s introduction and the first question, at the summit press conference. He didn’t have a clear leadership message and the Russian PR team didn’t do well.

In the Helsinki press conference in 2018, Trump gave victory to Putin on a platter. One’s communication strategy can’t be based on mistakes of opponents. Maybe, I am missing something, then please share Russia’s key message along with Russian media articles.

Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 20:38 utc | 149

149 @Max

Isn't it completely irrational and naive to believe China and Russia could succeed

winning the hearts and minds of the populace
in the western empire? Why don't we, living in these rogue states with their tightly organized media, not succeed to do so?

Damn, our shitholes are sliding into irrelevance, look at the economic figures. Why should China and Russia care?

Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 25 2021 20:50 utc | 150

Some good news...

Brazil judge annuls all of Moro's cases against ex-president Lula

Posted by: farm ecologist | Jun 25 2021 20:52 utc | 151

john @Jun25 20:06 #146:

When you can tell me what happened, maybe we'll continue.

WTF? This is a strange attitude coming from someone that raised the BOGUS question of a missing debris field at the 9-11 site, citing it as a "crystalline moment".

What were you alluding to with your bogus "crystalline moment"?

And why do you back away from that "crystalline moment" when the culpability of Israel is raised?

=
... the Israelis also warned us...

Link?

The Israelis WANTED USA involved in the Middle East. Any warning from them was perfunctory. Nothing more than CYA.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2021 21:03 utc | 152

@152 Jackrabbit

I may be wrong but I think John has been asking what happened in the sense of, HOW were the buildings taken down, by what physical mechanism and process?

You're answering WHY they were taken down, and by whom, but I don't think that's what he's asking. That's why he's talking about rubble, or the lack of it. He can be elliptical, but I think it's the physical process of destruction he's pointing to.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 23:00 utc | 153

George Floyd, Daunte Wright and Jacob Blake are not Worthy of Celebration
https://torrancestephensphd.substack.com/p/george-floyd-daunte-wright-and-jacob

Posted by: Dogon Priest | Jun 25 2021 23:18 utc | 154

@149 Max - "Maybe, I am missing something, then please share Russia’s key message along with Russian media articles."

I think what you're missing is the fact that the way Russia and China are fighting this information war cannot be shown by the quantity or quality of its media articles. That's not how they're fighting this war.

We've discussed this at some length here. My thought is that Russia is not answering the lies of the west by returning words in some kind of equivalence. In terms of words, they were greatly outgunned. So instead, they focused on paradigms, changing entire paradigms, and largely by example rather than by counter-arguments.

And they've been enormously successful with this strategy, if in fact it is a strategy. The multi-polar world draws immense strength from Russia. Russia's unabated insistence on the rule of law and the value of the UN has given the rest of the free world a yardstick to measure by, and a focal point of agreement. The free world has a future of international law and an unbiased UN as a goal now. And although that path still remains to be trodden, Russia made that path for everyone.

None of this was achieved by getting in a contest of words with the US Wurlitzer. It was achieved by picking a target and staying true to that course, without deviating. Over time, Russia has re-established its classical reputation as a straight shooter, a reliable partner, a true friend, and an adherent of principles.

To put this in other words - when Russia came to the aid of Syria and her soldiers gave their lives as if fighting for their own motherland, this example in itself spoke in ways worth millions of words, and won the hearts and minds of anti-colonialists all over the world. Russia become a linchpin of the Middle East - and the world - without even publishing a newsletter.

With power like this, why would Russia (and similarly, China) care to bandy words with known liars? This too, is a paradigm changed by Russia: the world sees that while the US owns the mighty propaganda machine, a nation can win without even having to resort to name calling, but rather by establishing strong fundamentals and strategic dominance - and then the US is powerless.

The war of words is being fought without words, and inexorably the quiet ones are winning the world. Hearts and minds are being won in the best way of all, silently.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 23:18 utc | 155

@ Grieved (#155)

Thanks for your detailed response. You and I are in sync on the strategy of letting the deeds speak. However, in the war of words, they’re making mistakes. Putin talked about “two nuclear powers” but not about the multipolar world in the summit press conference. He comes across as going back to Soviet days with those choice of words. A better way would have been to say we’re are in a “multipolar world” with multiple nuclear powers and it is essential that we nations engage to solve our challenges. The latter response would have a better reception. They could really do better in the information space.

Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 23:36 utc | 156

Grieved @155--

Precisely! There are words, then there are deeds. An old adage says: Deeds are more powerful than words. Many in the world can see that although it erected the UN and helped establish its Charter, the USA has done more than any nation to overturn both right from its beginning and becoming ever more obvious as time went by. The annual vote related to the gross illegality and inhumanity of the Cuban Blockade reminds the entire planet of the Outlaw US Empire's dirty deeds, and there are many as we both know. The blockage of humanitarian aid during the pandemic and subsequent deeds with the vaccines are yet more dirty deeds the entire world knows about. Can you think of a good deed done by the Empire since Biden became POTUS beyond merely reversing Trump policies? I can't. Meanwhile Russia continues to do what it can to aid its people during the pandemic, particularly aid to families with young children. Then there's Syria.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 25 2021 23:49 utc | 157

Max, I recall shortly after Russia's intervention in Syria Putin saying that Russia was not here to save the world.
Also let us not forget that less then 20 years ago Russia was a basket case and extremely close to being ripped to pieces.
And what is the point of trying to win an information war with the completely controlled information available to the few in the western audience who actually give a shit.

Posted by: arby | Jun 25 2021 23:50 utc | 158

@ Arby (#158)

Russia has accomplished a lot and is being challenged by the Empire. It might ignore the audience in the West, but there are 6 billion people who it needs to win in the Eurasia. Good communication is one of the key to success and essential.

No one is asking Russia to save the world. Its supporters are asking for clear communication of its position.

Posted by: Max | Jun 26 2021 0:06 utc | 159

"Brasil Wire
@BrasilWire

""Sergio Moro, the US-trained judge who brought Bolsonaro to power, is spotted in his new home of Washington DC, "

Posted by: arby | Jun 26 2021 0:29 utc | 160

Max, Andre Vitchek wrote a wonderful article about selling out his homeland for blue jeans and plastic bags . He recalled how he was enthralled by the west. I think Putin still has a bit of that in him.

Posted by: arby | Jun 26 2021 0:40 utc | 161

@159 Max - "Its supporters are asking for clear communication of its position."

With respect, I disagree that this is the case. My perception is that most people in the world with any reason to think about this have a very clear understanding of Russia's position. And Eurasia especially notes what China is doing and her partnership with Russia, and the great synergies and security assurance that flow from things like this.

You seem to want Russia to communicate something that will satisfy you. You seem to feel that there is communication lacking. I, personally, don't find anything lacking. I feel very adequately communicated to by Russia as to her position. And her weapons, especially, are worth a billion words.

Is it possible, friend Max, that the lack of communication lies with your perception, rather than with Russia's explanation?

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 26 2021 1:21 utc | 162

Grieved @Jun25 23:00 #153

The conversation with john speaks for itself.

john points to a "crystalline moment" (missing WTC rubble) but presents bogus evidence. Then, despite having raised the issue of a 9-11 cover-up, john does a complete flip and says we don't know what happened so we can't know who was responsible.

I sense a desire to muddy-the-waters to protect Israel as the 20-year anniversary of 9-11 approaches. Hasbara blowhards think we ordinary people are stoopid.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 26 2021 1:22 utc | 163

@ Grieved (#162),

Evidence speak better than words. Please share articles that communicates its position clearly and concisely.

We can agree to disagree too.

Posted by: Max | Jun 26 2021 1:33 utc | 164

@ 163 jackrabbit... in fairness jr - john is about as far away as one could get from a hasbara blowhard!

@ 164 max... i tend to share grieved viewpoint here... how is your russian translation skills? i am sure russias viewpoint gets misconstrued regularly in the western msm.. it goes with the territory but this doesn't mean that russia is ambiguous on its position... just staying focused on the more recent event with the hms provocateur getting close to crimeas shores - do you believe russia hasn't communicated effectively?? i am curious...

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2021 2:10 utc | 165

The rubble from 9/11 after it had been gone through for human remains etc, it was all then sent to China.🙄

Posted by: Debz251 | Jun 26 2021 2:15 utc | 166

and since this is the open thread - i am wondering what's up with firing shots at the columbia presidents helicopter??
and for any music freaks - a recently released live recording of dewey redman that i think is quite good...
dewey redman is from texas - dead now, but i saw him live 20 or more years ago..
Dewey Redman Quartet - Live Archival Recording

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2021 2:16 utc | 167

james @Jun26 2:10 #165:

... in fairness jr - john is about as far away as one could get from a hasbara blowhard!

Well, I don't know how else to explain this interaction with him.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 26 2021 3:06 utc | 168

@32 Peter AU1

Australian Citizens Party, is listed on Andy Fleming blog, he lives in Melbourne and tracks fascist and neo nazi groups in Australia. Andy has CEC or rebranded as Australian Citizens Party, listed. I would say because of the link to Lyndon Larouche.

I've watched a couple of ACP videos and I thought one was good, however of you dig a little deeper, I assess them right wing, and while I watch their videos, not sure I would vote for them.
For some reason I looked into Lyndon Larouche, it may have been after I read Andy's blog about CEC.

Larouche is also found at Marxist.org website, he wrote using the name Lyn Marcus, or Lin Marcus.

US journalist Chip Berlet and Dennis King are good sources for Lyndon Larouche.

Dennis King has a website Larouche Planet, I think you have to subscribe now, however he has written a book, so Google his name along with Larouche and it should come up at Amazon.

Chip Berlet articles

http://www.politicalresearch.org/1989/03/10/fascism-wrapped-american-flag

This one you have to download to read

http://www.politicalresearch.org/1999/02/01/right-woos-left


http://www.politicalresearch.org/2015/03/05/drawing-lines-against-racism-and-fascism


This is CEC same as ACP, and Larouche, it's a PDf, hope this works.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/downloads/ADL%2520report%2520on%2520CEC.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKwZ3urLTxAhVaxDgGHd0BBiwQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1waf1Q6T19SUywfq5Hm7Za">http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/downloads/ADL%2520report%2520on%2520CEC.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKwZ3urLTxAhVaxDgGHd0BBiwQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1waf1Q6T19SUywfq5Hm7Za">https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/downloads/ADL%2520report%2520on%2520CEC.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKwZ3urLTxAhVaxDgGHd0BBiwQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1waf1Q6T19SUywfq5Hm7Za

Posted by: Debz251 | Jun 26 2021 3:40 utc | 169

@ james (#165),

I sincerely believe that Russia hasn’t communicated its vision and stance effectively to the world. If it did then many will understand it better and champion its position, particularly in Asia, Latin America, and Eurasia. I liked the letter Putin wrote during Obama’s term and was published in the NYT. He did win people with that letter, including me. Not asking for a similar letter but articles, they can be published in the Russian media too.

RT is on a downhill trajectory. CGTN is on an uphill trajectory. Listen to Einer Tangen of CGTN America, he articulates and contrasts China’s position extraordinarily well. Please name a similar individual from RT America. Why isn’t RT interviewing Einer?

Let’s look at the Swiss summit press conference. Please share the crux of Putin’s conference message and its supporting points. What was the best question asked by a Russian correspondent, other than one on Arctic? How about the first question? What was the best question and who asked it?

Posted by: Max | Jun 26 2021 4:02 utc | 170

Max, I do apologize to karlof1 for putting my own spin on your post at 44,

If you think they have a good position then please summarize China & Russia’ global conflict framing in a single sentence.

They don’t have a good and succinct response to the framing of the global conflict by their opponents, “democracies vs autocracies.” They can say what they want, until they’ve framed their position clearly and concisely they are not winning hearts and minds in the world. They need a tagline.

They would do better by framing it as between, “sovereignties vs suzerainties” or “unilateralism vs multilateralism”,... Until they’ve a response to this framing by their adversaries they’re losing.

How was my response in my first paragraph a misconstruction of this? I thought I was responding directly at 126, when I addressed specifically the portions of your comment that I have underlined. Yet you start your follow up comment:

Please don’t misconstrue. I am saying, China and Russia aren’t addressing their negative framing and thereby not winning the hearts and minds of the populace. They’re letting this negative framing stay. I didn’t say anything else. Also, in the information warfare China and Russia aren’t leading but following in a passive way.

In the information arena, it is not about forbearance but defining the FRAMING.

First, I said that your framing isn't correct for Russia and China because there is no 'versus' in their 'framing', (as Grieved has said better than me). The following paragraphs of my answer dealt with my own understanding of their positive approach, and not with what you had suggested - not a misconstruction as far as I can see. You are free to disagree, but I don't believe I misconstrued what you had said. You wanted them to take up a 'this versus that' framework to be convincing; I think what they are doing is working just fine.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 26 2021 4:18 utc | 171

@ juliania (#171),

We can agree to disagree. Time will tell...

Fyi, China has been stating lately, “Colonial vs the rest of the world”, and “unipolar vs multilateralism,” in their media. It looks like they are testing concepts. You might listen to various key hosts on CGTN. They’re doing better than RT. It will be interesting to see when they go in a big way.

Posted by: Max | Jun 26 2021 4:38 utc | 172

@ juliania | Jun 26 2021 4:18 utc | 171 with the communications with Max

Max is fairly new to the MoA bar and seems well intentioned but a bit discordant around the edges. I am in stand back and watch Max interaction with others and the truth will out over time like many other short term MoA patrons.....I frequent enough blogs to have enormous respect for the civil tenor at the MoA bar....kudos to all....but we can be a bit hard and cutting when necessary which helps all out in clarifying the word salad we call textual communication....in English...sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 26 2021 4:56 utc | 173


CEC or Australian Citizens Party environment policy, it's business as usual.

For anyone wanting to read Dennis King's book look here, it's free to read on his website, plus more.

https://lyndonlarouchewatch.org/index.html

Posted by: Debz251 | Jun 26 2021 5:29 utc | 174

@psychohistorian, @juliania:

Max points out that the Russians have never been very good at Western style Goebbels/Bernays "Public Relations" (or Propaganda, as I call it, bullshit, deception, or dissembling).

He has a point, they aren't/haven't/don't.

I think the disagreement is about how important that really is, whether it is really a good idea for them to do that or not.

I agree with you & juliania; in the Russian case, in the present situation, they are doing fine, but I don't think Max's point is wrong.

Anyway, the Chinese are the Good cop, and they have been working at western style PR for a while now, and they are indeed getting better at it. The Russians are the Bad Cop and they don't really need the fancy PR, they have the goods, the facts, the guns on their side.

IMHO.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 26 2021 8:02 utc | 175

Following new discoveries, independent fact-checker/OSINT analysis team Rootclaim has updated its estimate of the likelihood that the 2013 Ghouta chemical attack was carried out by the Syrian opposition from 87% to 96%. If, like me, you were late to the game and are only familiar with the details of the 2018 Douma fake chemical attack, the thread analysing the 2013 attack is very helpful. After reviewing the material presented, I now know that the attack was done by the opposition. (If anyone knows of a similarly succinct and convincing analysis of the 2017 Khan Sheikhoun chemical attack, please share.)

Posted by: S | Jun 26 2021 8:56 utc | 176

Mark Wallace, Joe Leiberman; John Bolton; Jeb Bush; Frances Townsend; Robert Richer; and Norman Roule, FETO Gulen reported involved in Turkish Democracy Project (TDP) anyone know anything about this apparently private venture?


thanks Grieved @139 for ..Iveremectin received from India containing 100x12mg pills and 100x6mg pills of human grade Ivermectin. The total cost was $65 USD, which included $35 shipping cost.

How was it obtained? "I followed the link from the FLCCC website to indiamart.com, which opens to a search result for IVM, and multiple suppliers. I filled out the simple request for quotes for what I was looking for, and two suppliers responded. All this happens in the indiamart interface, which gives a great chat record of the transaction, and also copies to email.

Credit card worked: the package traveled by postal mail, clearing India customs after about 3 days and getting to me in the States within the next week. I'm not trying to shill for any commercial entity, but it all worked and I thought you'd like to know."

Posted by: snake | Jun 26 2021 10:12 utc | 177

Jackrabbit @ 152

This is a strange attitude coming from someone that raised the BOGUS question of a missing debris field at the 9-11 site, citing it as a "crystalline moment"

Bogus? The 'missing debris field' is plain to see in the photos I provided and many others. 110 story skyscrapers pancaking into their own footprints would quite logically leave an enormous rubble pile. It wasn't there, nor in the sub floors. The 'crystalline moment' refers to the reaction by the mainstream press...their honest reportage of what they saw, in the moment, not yet privy to the new directive. Any further talk about 'where is all the rubble' quickly disappeared from the narrative. From then on out it was just, 'oh, they took it to New Jersey' or, 'oh, they sold it to the Chinese'. I guess that's where you came in.

... the Israelis also warned us...

This is well known and documented.

Langley, August 23, 2001. The Israeli Mossad intelligence agency handed its American counterpart a list of names of terrorists who were staying in the US and were presumably planning to launch an attack in the foreseeable future. According to documents obtained by Die ZEIT, Mossad agents in the US were in all probability surveilling at least four of the 19 hijackers, among them al-Midhar. The CIA now does what it should have done 18 months earlier. It informs the State Dept., the FBI and the INS(Link)

But keep 'misunderstanding' you dimwit, keep piling on the unsubstantiated affirmations. Talk is cheap.

p.s. Thank you Grieved and james.

Posted by: john | Jun 26 2021 10:50 utc | 178

S @ 176:

Have you seen this April 2017 post on the Khan Sheikhoun attack by HumanRightsInvestigations.org?

The alleged Khan Sheikhoun chemical attack

Posted by: Jen | Jun 26 2021 11:06 utc | 179

Debz251 | Jun 26 2021 2:15 utc | 166

Very quickly, before samples could be taken. - by Guiliani, if my memory serves me correctly. He was one of the "cover-up" crew. (Depending on which version of 9/11 you use)

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 26 2021 11:13 utc | 180

john | Jun 26 2021 10:50 utc | 178

Idle curiousity on my part, but I can't recollect ever seeing a photo of the pile of rubble of building No.7. There must have been some...... I suppose.

Simply asking, how do the photos of the rubble of 1+2 and 7 compare in size? (Logically the volume of 7 should have been smaller than that of 1+2 combined)

The WT buildings were "reduced" from the top => downwards, while 7 lost it's foundations first and then fell down.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 26 2021 11:34 utc | 181

Addition to my post 181. There are a few photos of a heap taken from ground level (exaggerates the volume). I meant a similar phote to that supplied by John of the twin towers taken from the air.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 26 2021 11:45 utc | 182

Debz251 @ 169

I took the trouble to read your linked Chip Berlet articles. The origins stories for Larouche and his organizations are entirely fictional. Larouche never had any presence whatsoever in SDS.

Why does someone with no organization, no following, no concrete anything, get continual massive press coverage?
Because it is a story someone wants you to hear.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 26 2021 11:57 utc | 183

@ karlof1 | Jun 24 2021 23:56 utc | 81 ("almost like twin...")

Concrete and rebar with tensioning rods that allow thin concrete...tensioning is critical, so is/are the shape, ie nice plumb/square...if structure "settles" all engineering assumptions go proof. In audio of internal security camera one can hear the tensioning rods snapping. After that it's "elevator down".

There were no explosions in Miami.

Twins were steel frame...whole 'nuther affair. and they were triplets.

In Miami the collapse was asymmetric. In NY it was not.

........................

Bigbig showdown in Black Sea, in Med, and near Hawaii...

Nice to hear "Xerxes Biden"...in text above. Yes, naval battle to end piratical empire's willingness to bother ... like Salamis, reversed (Persia retreated, was land power, of course...mirrors Salamis tho.)

Good discussion @ Saker

Best to all...

Posted by: Walter | Jun 26 2021 12:08 utc | 184

Stonebird @ 181

Simply asking, how do the photos of the rubble of 1+2 and 7 compare in size

7 appears to be larger.

That's it to the left of WTC6 in the center with the weird hole, the nice clean dome of WFC2 in the foreground.

Posted by: john | Jun 26 2021 12:54 utc | 185

Debz251@169&174 is both industrious and thoughtful. Thanks.

It is of course entirely futile, as oldhippie@183 proves. The far right politics hidden beneath the facade of originality and dissent is the attractive thing. Dissing Larouche and his political heirs for this is offensive to those who share the penchant for far right politics veneered with something that doesn't immediately. I suppose it's sort of like putting a red wig on your mistress to make things exciting?

oldhippie of course is disingenuous in pretending Larouche gets continual publicity. oldhippie is doubly disingenuous in omitting how it is rich people who can buy media that pushes the right-wingers, both overt and covert like Larouche. The notion the media are mouthpieces of the "government" not the rich is self-serving BS, by them or their flunkies.

I liked to read SF, when it was still being regularly published. I remember reading some correspondence by Robert A. Heinlein about the what the Communist Party Central Committee was up to in California in the days of the EPIC campaign by Upton Sinclair. I was wondering how Heinlein could know this and concluded he was either making it up or repeating gosspi from his right-wing Red Scaring friends or sharing information from his handler. (Yes, Heinlein the author of Starship Troopers and speaker at West Point commencement infiltrated, er, joined, EPIC.) Similarly, oldhippie's certainty that oldhippie had the lowdown on the entire SDS national organization suggests that oldhippie was a leader in the national organization, or oldhippie is also repeating information/indoctrination by their handler. Or possibly that oldhippie is a liar. The usual commenter here would immediately label oldhippie "hasbara" but a puffed up buffoon who just makes stuff up to sound authoritative and important and *somebody* is just as likely.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 26 2021 14:07 utc | 186

john | Jun 26 2021 12:54 utc | 185

Thanks a lot. Why does everything concerning the WT buildings get more complex as time goes on?

ie. I hadn't realised that 6 had a hole in the middle!
I can speculate that the building had a central "plaza" or some such architectural feature, but from the photo, it appears that a large part of the "surface facings" of the lower part of WTC 1 (North) lean against it.

What amazes me is that comprehensive samples were not taken all around the area, before the rubble was disposed of.
****

NOW I learn that the top 19 floors of WT 7 were "lightened" to make double height levels for Solomon Bros. "A building within a building". ...?...

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 26 2021 14:18 utc | 187

Stj @ 186

Usually don’t even glance at your posts any longer, my name popped out.

At the ripe age of 14, in the summer of 1966, this barfly walked in the door of the SDS National Office on west Madison, maybe 15 miles from where I grew up, put $3 on the table, and became a national member of SDS. By 1968 was being actively recruited by every faction. Met all of the leaders, they were public people. Friends with some of them for decades.

One of the main reasons for the factional blowup of SDS 1968-1969 was that the leadership was getting long in the tooth. Old farts like Bill and Bernie were in their late 20s. Those who were never there get to imagine that someone like Larouche, then in his 40s, could walk in and no one would notice. Sure, that happened. Then in 1973 Larouche sends out the goons to beat up on CPUSA with pipes and bats and chains. Right. A bunch of street fighters in FBI shoes walk into the nursing homes with baseball bats and start beating up the residents who hold party membership. No one notices except the stenographers of the press.

The entire Larouche story is ridiculous and only gets worse as it gets older and older. Now we are told Lyndon was a big theoretician with the SWP. Possibly I am the only one here who remembers SWP in the 60s. A bunch of milquetoast left liberal reformists embarrassed by the historical connection to Comrade Leon. All “theory” was big demos and a fanciful notion of a general strike. But Larouche was there. Sure he was.

Any who think Larouche was on to something, that his “thought” has any connection to anything real, should please spend a few hours reading his tripe. And then join me in understanding that he only exists because he has been relentlessly promoted.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 26 2021 14:47 utc | 188

Xinhua Headlines: Why Western political theories can't explain success of century-old CPC

The Tibetan herdsman, whose family previously struggled to make ends meet in a mountainous rural village in northwest China's Qinghai Province, now owns 80 sheep and 20 cattle thanks to poverty-alleviation subsidies and loans from the government.

Sonam Tsering, who had bid farewell to his former home, a dilapidated adobe structure surrounded by uneven stone walls, welcomed Xi outside his new house that is equipped with a flush toilet and a driveway that leads up to the front door.

"Thanks to the Party's favorable policies, the lives of us herders are getting better every day," Sonam Tsering said.

The visit of Xi came less than a month before the world's largest Marxist party, which has seen its membership explode from 50-plus individuals to more than 91 million, celebrates its centennial.

Westerners like to link the CPC with some kind of Confucian orientalist mysticism in order to explain its successes or failures. But there's no Confucius here: the CPC is a Marxist party.

The rise of the CPC marks an era in China where superstition gave way to science as the way to go with governance. And to this task only Marxism is up to.

Posted by: vk | Jun 26 2021 15:37 utc | 189

john @Jun26 10:50 #178

The 'crystalline moment' refers to the reaction by the mainstream press...their honest reportage of what they saw, in the moment, not yet privy to the new directive. Any further talk about 'where is all the rubble' quickly disappeared from the narrative.

Once again:

  • The video that you linked to has Peter Jennings remarking on the lack of a debris field when looking at a view that is NOT the WTC site.
  • There were huge dust clouds as the towers fell and for hours afterward.

  • You haven't offer any explanation for what you believe to be a missing debris field. How could all that material just disappear except by what is obvious to the rest of us: pulverized concrete that was blown away in as dust? All you offer is an amorphous suggestion that something is amiss while dismissing logical inference about Israel's culpability from facts that are clear.

... the Israelis also warned us... This is well known and documented.

I haven't disputed that the Israelis made such a warning. I said it was too little too late. Handing over a list of terrorists two weeks before the attack when you've been tracking them for 9 months is just a Cover-Your-Ass (CYA) move.

From the Der Speigel article that you link to:

According to research by ZEIT, between December 2000 and April 2001 a whole horde of Israeli counter-terror investigators, posing as students, followed the trails of Arab terrorists and their cells in the United States. In their secret investigations, the Israelis came very close to the later perpetrators of Sept. 11. In the town of Hollywood, Florida, they identified the two former Hamburg students and later terror pilots Mohammed Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi as possible terrorists. Agents lived in the vicinity of the apartment of the two seemingly normal flight school students, observing them around the clock.

If the Israelis were so concerned that they sent a "horde of counter-terror investigators" to USA then why didn't they inform/warn USA much earlier than August 23rd?

Silverstein made his bid for the 99-year WTC lease in April 2001.

I also pointed to USA/CIA complicity. I'm not pulling any punches. Many have speculated that that the attack was "allowed to happen". Given what we know PNAC and Israeli interests, Israel was more likely to help make it happen and/or profit from it than to issue any real warnings about it.

But you direct our attention to nonsense: "missing debris" that is actually easily explained.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 26 2021 15:50 utc | 190

@ Max | Jun 26 2021 4:02 utc | 170.. thanks for sharing your impressions and interpretations on what is happening on the media front with regard to russia communicating its position effectively... let me quote from an article that i think sums up a good reason why the positions of russia are not heard, or worse - slanted in an unfavourable manner which is generally all that i see..

"It is one of the most important aspects of our media system, and yet hardly known to the public: most of the international news coverage in Western media is provided by only three global news agencies based in New York, London and Paris.

The key role played by these agencies means Western media often report on the same topics, even using the same wording. In addition, governments, military and intelligence services use these global news agencies as multipliers to spread their messages around the world."
https://swprs.org/the-propaganda-multiplier/

i am not saying russia couldn't be doing more to convey their position to those interested.. as you will note karlof1 and paco often quote directly from the russian gov'ts website which is truly impressive... they are more then willing to share many of the interviews and details of the russian presidency... now, perhaps RT news could be doing better... it seems i am following all this quite a bit differently then you.. i think russia is different then china... perhaps the fact china has 10X the number of people helps get the info out on china more successfully... judging from the way they are characterized in the western msm, i would tend to disagree with this characterization though.. it stands to reason a person in the usa or canada for example, will have to go out of their way to get a perspective on russia or china.. most people probably won't and i doubt they will ask many questions on the nature of the info they receive as well... cheers james

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2021 15:58 utc | 191

@max - what bemildred says @ 175... i do believe you make a good point max, but i don't think that is how russia roles...

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2021 16:01 utc | 192

Debz251 169

I may look into the more at a later date. If my health were bttere I would probably get in contact with them and find out more about them that way. All I know of them is whats on their website and that does include connections to Larouch. Their policies are pre privatization/green/gay/woke. Right wing as in nazi or racists or simply conservative for this day and age I do not know. But sound policies for international relation and trade and for building domestic economy on infrastructure.
I had not been aware of them until just recently and with my health as it is probably wont look into them any further. As far as I can see the way to be sure of what they are is to get in contact with them and after some time make a decision. If I'm still around at next voting time I may put a tick on their box rather than drawing a line across the page.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 26 2021 16:10 utc | 193

Max

Information warfare.
Russia turned east about 6-7 years ago and is not particularly bothered about trying to win hearts and minds in the west. They fully understand how propaganda works and also the fact that they will be blocked from having anything published or broadcast in western media. Even the bland RT and Sputnik have been blocked in many places. But the information is there for any body that cares to look for it- At the Russian government website, Valdai club ect ect. karlof1 tracks all of that and is constantly putting up interesting sections and links here.
China is trying a bit with the west due to their large amount of trade with the west. They have a massive culture and language barrier to overcome. Russia is the place where east meets west and China is the east. Most in the west have soaked up the huge amount of propaganda that has been pumped out in the west for many decades. It is only when you have done enough research to realize that everything we have been told is a lie. For me that goes back to being a teenager at the time of vietnam but even to my earliest childhood, a lot about WWII turned out to be a lie especially concerning the soviet unions part in WWII.
Even 10 years ago when I knew a lot of propaganda about china was bullshit, on my trip to China, I thought I would see something of a police state. It was then that I realized it was me, not the Chinese that lived in a police state.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 26 2021 16:32 utc | 194

A few people that I have talked to think Russia is a communist country which translates to evil in their heads, end of discussion.

Posted by: arby | Jun 26 2021 17:01 utc | 195

@ James & Peter AU,

What are the key qualities of good leaderships? Communication is one of those.

What are Russia’s core values and development themes? Links welcome.

The best way to address propaganda is not by more propaganda but... ?

Posted by: Max | Jun 26 2021 17:06 utc | 196

oldhippie@188 opts for the national leadership insider story. Sure, that's the ticket.

Being one of the people vociferous about how Larouche was a crank (citing my reading of his book Dialectical Econmics, no less,) oldhippie thinks it's a rebuttal of my comments to claim that...Larouche was a crank? oldhippie is not a deep thinker, even if oldhippie was intimate with all the national leadership of SDS. I can only conclude that oldhippie "refutes" me on Larouche being a crank, even though I said that already, because oldhippie is peeved that I criticize Larouche as a rabid right-winger. *That* gores oldhippie's ox!

Larouche being a big theoretician in SWP partly depends on what you mean by big theoretician. My reading of the SWP internal education literature isn't hugely extensive but they were pretty light on theoreticians of any kind. The internal education really tended to rely on Leon Trotsky, despite oldhippie's claims. Apparently the SDS elite was well briefed on SWP internal life too. At any rate, oldhippie keeps misunderstanding---peculiarly, for what reason?---that what Larouche really was and what Larouche told people he was and henchment agreed are two different things. Think Trump and his worshippers telling us Trump was a dissident, an outsider, a stable genius, a reindustrializer, an economic nationalist, on and on till you vomit.

Lastly of course the claim that Larouche was a fake who was promoted evades the real question, who was doing the promoting? Larouche with money swindled from old right-wing farts outraged at this or that? Or the CIA? Given that oldhippies simultaneously claims Larouche was insignificant *and* a government plant, the comments are much like someone shouting "Murder!" then refusing to either name the victim or the murderer! But I suppose this is to be expected of someone who truly believes they can do political analysis by recognizing FBI shoes. I suppose this is why oldhippie appears to be a leading commenter at MoA.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 26 2021 17:16 utc | 197

Even here amongst my fellow trunkards at the Moon of Alabama. someone now and then spew fourth hickupps containing an assertions that the US of North A is supposedly "a democracy",
NOT SO: The "founding fattters" abhorred democracy à la Athens, where all citizens had a somewhat equal say in the affairs of that city-state.
Rather, they opted for a republic á la ancient Rome, where there was a sanate dominated by the propertied landowners and their stooges amongst slum landlords within the City who owned tenements.

Posted by: Theo Oros אש תיצפ | Jun 26 2021 17:21 utc | 198

Posted by: arby | Jun 26 2021 17:01 utc | 195

A few people that I have talked to think Russia is a communist country which translates to evil in their heads, end of discussion.
And yet those same people happily frequent the nearby community centers, send their kids to community colleges and some of them are even member of strata councils (council in Russian is soviet which means literally advice).

What about you, do you think that communism is evil?

Posted by: hopehely | Jun 26 2021 17:25 utc | 199

By the way: For many years, I have noticed that some of the same signatories to the false assertion that the US of North A is a democracy have also stated that "May You live in interesting times" is an old Chinese curse. Not so: The originator was Berthold Brecht, who was annoyed that many of his Chinese (partly exiled) interlocutors said thus (In English, German or Russian) when tired by his charades and mouthly out-spuwede statements.

Posted by: Theopilos Oros/ תיצפ | Jun 26 2021 17:43 utc | 200

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