All palaces need to be turned into Airbnb units. Let’s see how China and Russia play the game. Time will tell.
Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 4:29 utc | 100
I would fix them up for safety and then leave them sit as monuments/reminders to/of the stupid things people do when they get too full of themselves. But yeah, a curse on the planet.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 25 2021 5:00 utc | 103

To Ghost Ship and anyone interested in nuclear power plants general information.
There is a recent British documentary television series named “Building Britain’s Biggest Nuclear Power Station” that might interest you if you have the opportunity to watch it. Unless I’ve messed up the names the power station is the “Hinkley Point C” being built right next to the decommissioned 1965-2000 Hinkley Point A (the later B is still operational) which was similar to the 1962-2002 Bradwell nuclear power plant in the Flicker photo album that Ghost Ship linked to earlier in the recent thread named “Another ‘Nuclear Iran’ Claim By David Albright Gets Debunked”. This new power plant is a French-Chinese-British project.
Unless I’m jumbling it up with some other source it also mentioned that the same kind of power plant has been built and started in China and there are two more current projects of the same nature in Finland and France which haven’t yet gotten started (or something like that).
On second thought that might have been a Wikipedia page on the specific reactor type or maybe the power plant itself (have a search if interested).
Disclaimer: I’ve only seen part of the beginning, perhaps half an hour of the first of two episodes (perhaps there will be more in the future as construction continues over the next few years) but will try to find the time somewhere in the future when I have sufficient attention for it. It was BBC2 (I would have though Channel 5 or ITV but nope BBC2 it is) and I’ve found its home page.
While searching I saw in the results that the Grauniad proclaimed it a bore fest “so bad it’s good” (or to that effect) but I found it interesting and not bad at all but no one should expect to become a nuclear or structural engineer just because they watched it any more than anyone instantly becomes a biologist or environmentalist by watching animal documentaries 🙂
What I saw of the first episode mostly showed some of the creation of (and mentions a few details about) the foundations, in particular one of the two “nuclear islands” (it will have two reactors).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 25 2021 5:57 utc | 105

karlofi@81
Looking at the video you posted of the Florida condo collapse the bright flashes as it comes down seem to suggest a controlled demolition. False flag or insurance scam?…..

Posted by: Emmanuel Goldstein | Jun 25 2021 6:49 utc | 107

It looks like DNA sequences from early in the Wuhan epidemic have been deleted in order to obfuscate the origin of SARS-CoV-2. Fact or propaganda?

Posted by: m | Jun 25 2021 8:05 utc | 109

a number of interesting issues addressed by Campbell here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wd5Ig8IDPI
just wondering, if everyone starts using Ivermectin, won’t its efficacy against parasitaries reduced?

Posted by: Mina | Jun 25 2021 9:36 utc | 111

karlof1 @ 81
I don’t see where anyone has provided a link to the video showing the pancaking of the Florida Condo building, so here it is and as you can see it occurs almost like the Twin Towers
Well, since you brought it up, no, the two incidents couldn’t be more different.
Here’s a shot across the lobby area of WTC1, a 110 story skyscraper, probably shot on 9/11(I love the ambulance…essentially without a scratch).
It’s a real shame that in 20 years the discussion of what happened in NYC on that fateful day hasn’t progressed one iota, and this after one of the most crystalline moments in American journalism that I have ever seen.

Posted by: john | Jun 25 2021 10:53 utc | 113

Grieved @ 80
My source of information for how the Larouchies behaved when they disrupted leftist meetings would be I was at those meetings. My views on their sartorial choices come from seeing them.
Again, NCLC never existed. It was hysterical listening to the clowns delivering their longwinded speeches about their origins in SDS when everyone else in the room was SDS. And in 1967 it was quite a small organization and everybody did know everybody else. Same for the ostensible PL connection. And they report being purged from meetings and organizations where they had never been seen.
To the extent there is anything coherent in their voluminous ramblings it is merely a sign that the project is well funded. Also a symptom of how trivial mainstream and mainstream left discourse has become. Should you invest any time in discovering who they are it will not take long to discover there is nothing there. Nothing at all. Smoke and mirrors.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 25 2021 11:23 utc | 115

Iran was the second country majorly hit after China. I think that says everything we need to know about the origins and purpose of Covid.

Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Jun 25 2021 11:48 utc | 117

Thanks Jen, I was wondering actually whether if millions of ppl started to use it as a prophylaxis, would it still be efficient (actually, in both the parasites and the covid). If I understand you correctly, probably not.
In France, the box cost 10 euros for what should be 1 day of treatment of a 60 kg person. So that is still far too expensive to generalize it. But then, if efficient against some water- and mosquitoes- related diseases, it would be actually a real loss for some countries.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 25 2021 12:09 utc | 119

Paco @ 115
FBI shoes back then were plain toe lace up oxfords or bluchers. Always black and shined. The basic design has been unchanged a long time which should be because it works. Mailmen used to wear them. A few still do.
I always figured the characters who showed up to meetings were agents in training. Taking acting lessons in front of an audience that was not discriminating. And no one cared if the performance got bad reviews. They always worked in teams, talked loud, when one forgot his lines or got stumped the next would pick up the screaming and shouting.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 25 2021 12:48 utc | 121

I read and heard contradictory news.
One explains a remark by Biden that “China is squeezing Russia”. A video was refuting “false claims” that the contract for supplying China with gas offers such a low price that … it would be an example of squeezing. In fact, claimed presumed Russian patriots, the price, 16c for a cubic meter, is higher than in similar contracts with European customers.
Second story is that on the European gas exchange (where? lazy to check) the price reached 36c. A truffle for the mighty European economy, even if you multiply it by hundred (two hundred?) billion. But not a trifle if you live in Ukraine and your monthly utility payment have effectively a formula “European exchange + distribution + etc.” Both Ukrainians and the bulk (?? not verified) refrained from long term contracts that would give lower price mentioned in the first video.
Part of the reason for shortage is that Gazprom uses only the guaranteed minimum (play or pay) of Ukrainian pipeline capacity. The increase of their supplies will come when additional parts of NS-2 will be completed. Of course, the balance of the demand is fulfilled by the abundant LNG. In short, “energy independence” is a feasible goal, but not cheap when you multiply cents by hundreds of billions.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 25 2021 12:58 utc | 123

PeterAU1 @ 110
I’m sure those who really know things in the US know that they are lagging far behind Russia (and in some fields China) in all sorts of conventional and nuclear weaponry, and because of refusing to fund and incentivize education in math and physics may simply never be able to truly catch up. But because of the vast profits in US medicine, and the fact that Russia actually curtailed research in bio-warfare fields during their 20 years of weakness, I suspect they feel biological weapons are one field where they still have the upper hand. Plus of course the benefits of deniability, etc. And their hubris makes them think they can control them. I’ve always had the suspicion that the US is so fixated on refining mRNA vaccine technology not just because it is vastly more profitable for them, but also because it promises the ability to be very quickly fine-tuned and produced for any given virus–sounds like a DARPA experiment writ large. I suspect they’re using this “opportunity” to test and perfect a technology whose sole advantage over traditional vaccines is it would be better suited to quickly matching a bioweapon.
And yes, there will always be things that are nearly impossible to prove beyond any doubt, but I agree that the evidence suggests it is much more likely Covid was a bio-attack on China than that it wasn’t, so I’ll tend to believe that unless and until the evidence starts to accumulate in the other direction.

Posted by: J Swift | Jun 25 2021 13:25 utc | 125

john @Jun25 10:53 #112: crystalline moments
Peter Jennings is mistaken. The view that he is referring to is not of the WTC site/debris field. The view is of an area north of the WTC.
I know the area well because I used to work there.
It took months to clear the debris from the WTC site and hundreds of workers that participated in that cleanup suffered health problems after working the site. The government declared the site safe despite the obvious health hazards. AFAIK no one has ever been held accountable for that lie.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2021 13:30 utc | 127

Posted by: juliania | Jun 25 2021 13:30 utc | 125
“For the great powers, as for individuals, the better course is forbearance. Time is on the side of that, has been from the beginning. Putin’s memorial speech which I referenced earlier points to the terrible years of Russia’s past, when different groups of people were being victimized because of who they were, what they had done. Peter AU here explained that was not Putin’s approach to governing. He didn’t try to eliminate the oligarchs. Like FDR, he gave them a choice. Work for the state, or leave the state. You do not and cannot own it. We, the state, know you would love to own us, but we, the state, say no.
The time to say no needs to happen before things fall completely apart. It’s not clear that it will, but it really must.”
Thank you Juliania, humility and forbearance are never a mistake. All those people who whine about Putin being a p**sy always neglect to examine his results in the process. The Chinese have done well that way, too, long on work and short on bluster and theater. The West on the other hand is awash in long-range mouth-fighters, grifters, and people playing a part. Short term thinkers, arrogant to a fault.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 25 2021 14:01 utc | 129

Re: Florida building collapse.
I watched SBS.com.au News and ABC.net.au News tonight. The coverage was completely different.
-SBS reported that the building is the subject of a Repair & Rectify Order to get re-certification for its use as an apartment building. The main fault mentioned was extensive rust in the steel reinforcing. There have been contractors at the site for an unspecified period of time and the work is ongoing. So this collapse occurred during rectification works. There was mention of Florida’s sandy substrate not being the ideal foundation BUT it’s a normal condition for every building in that part of Florida.
ABC.net.au did NOT mention the rectification work currently being performed on the building but did mention the sandy substrate and the expert opinion that it’s normal for Florida and isn’t an excuse for a collapse. ABC’s report mentioned recent new building construction not far from the collapsed building – which is a pretty dopey and irrelevant thing to say. So ABC have classified the collapse as an ‘Unsolved Mystery’.
Restoring the structural integrity of a reinforced concrete building infected with Concrete Cancer (rusting steel reinforcing) is a tedious task. Fortunately, seaside buildings usually only get cancer in structural components exposed to weather. But you can’t yank the steel out of the concrete and replace it with new steel. You have to prop the structure, demolish the faulty elements, and build new elements, ensuring that they are adequately integrated (connected to) with the existing structure.
So, plenty of room for error, especially with US bosses’ addiction to cheap unskilled labor and Laissez Faire supervision.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 25 2021 14:35 utc | 131

Follow-up @Jun25 13:30 #126
These are the true “crystalline moments” wrt 9-11 are these:

• PNAC’s call for a “new pearl harbor”;
• the free-fall of WTC7;
• the urgent need to clear the debris field asap – even though it was unsafe to do so;
• dancing Israeli’s coupled with Larry Silverstein’s purchase of WTC:
  • these weren’t just any Israeli’s, at least some of them appear to have been connected to Israeli intelligence;
  • Larry’s Lucky Day:

    Silverstein got more than a billion dollars more in insurance payout than he had paid for the 99-year WTC lease (only weeks before 9-11): Silverstein paid $3.2 billion for the lease and received $4.55 billion insurance.

  • Silverstein has said in interviews that he usually spent his mornings in breakfast meetings at Windows on the World on top of the World Trade Center North Tower, and with new tenants in the building. However, the morning of September 11, 2001, his wife insisted that he attend a medical appointment. Due to the appointment, he escaped almost certain death.
    Wouldn’t he have made the medical appointment for later in the day if it was his habit to have breakfast meetings?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2021 14:58 utc | 133

@ Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2021 4:52 utc | 102… i like how he has framed science with regard to covid as a new type religion… that’s all.. i don’t believe he is challenging the nature of covid itself… just how people are given over to beliefs that can’t be challenged once they become the accepted norm..

Posted by: james | Jun 25 2021 15:39 utc | 135

China has published a new White Paper, “China’s Political Party System: Cooperation and Consultation,” which I’m sure a host of barflies will want to read. You’ll need to download the Word doc from here. It begins thusly:
“The system of multiparty cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC) is a basic element of China’s political framework. A new model grown out of the soil of China, it also learns from other countries and absorbs the fruits of their political achievements. The Constitution of the People’s Republic of China stipulates, “The system of multiparty cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the Communist Party of China will continue and develop long into the future.
“In this system, in addition to the CPC, there are eight other political parties: the Revolutionary Committee of the Chinese Kuomintang, the China Democratic League, the China National Democratic Construction Association, the China Association for Promoting Democracy, the Chinese Peasants and Workers Democratic Party, the China Zhi Gong Party, the Jiusan Society, and the Taiwan Democratic Self-Government League. The system also includes prominent individuals without affiliation to any of the political parties (hereinafter referred to as “non-affiliates”).
“Following the principles of long-term coexistence, mutual oversight, sincerity, and sharing the rough times and the smooth, the CPC and the other political parties have created a multiparty cooperation system in which the CPC exercises state power and the other parties participate fully in the administration of state affairs under the leadership of the CPC.”
So, when it’s said China is a one-party system, the source is lying. I’ve just opened the doc, and I’m sure there’ll be even more surprises. Oh, it says it’s 45 screens long.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 25 2021 16:53 utc | 137

Regarding a mention upthread of the cost of Ivermectin. I wanted to pass along that I just today received a package from India with 100x12mg pills and 100x6mg pills of human grade Ivermectin. The total cost was $65 USD, which included $35 shipping cost.
No doubt the price markup in the civilized west is uncivilized.
For anyone who would like to know, I followed the link from the FLCCC website to indiamart.com, which opens to a search result for IVM, and multiple suppliers. I filled out the simple request for quotes for what I was looking for, and two suppliers responded. All this happens in the indiamart interface, which gives a great chat record of the transaction, and also copies to email.
I bought the items by credit card, the package traveled by postal mail, clearing India customs after about 3 days and getting to me in the States within the next week. I’m not trying to shill for any commercial entity, but it all worked and I thought you’d like to know.
~~
The bottom line is that I can park the apple-flavored substance from the feed store, and begin prophylaxis with tablets. Furthermore, if anyone in my circle gets symptoms, I have a way to help them. I want to emphasize that I’m not a doctor, and not giving medical advice, but I also want to emphasize that almost all of the actual doctors in my country are in thrall to big pharma, and in gross violation of their Hippocratic oath.
As Peter McCullough says, if any of these doctors ever wake up to the crime against humanity that they have participated in, they’re going to be mortified, or whatever they’ll feel as they try to live with themselves.
So we’re on our own, as we all long ago concluded. Sorry if mass use of Ivermectin produces resistant strains in the future, but if we don’t do it by trying to survive, Fort Detrick will probably do it for us in the next criminal caper.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 17:28 utc | 139

Jackrabbit @ 138
So you believe the rubble disappeared
I believe that the rubble pile was completely inadequate for buildings of that size. Apparently many others believe the same thing. This is of course based on the myriad videos, photos, and testimonials from the scene. The empirical evidence.
And what do you make of the many videos that show a cloud of dust rising from the 9-11 site for hours/days afterward
No doubt more of the anomalous dust that blanketed much of Lower Manhattan.
Is it logical that the collapse of a 110-story building will pulverize the concrete of lower floors
No, it’s not. Certainly not to that extent and along with all the steel and everything else there within.
***
Until you’ve determined what happened, it’s pointless to speculate about whodunnit and/or why. To this day we still don’t know.

Posted by: john | Jun 25 2021 18:30 utc | 141

john @Jun25 18:30 #141

Until you’ve determined what happened, it’s pointless to speculate about whodunnit and/or why. To this day we still don’t know.

You’re kidding, right?
I think it’s clear to the rest of us that, after the Cold War was won, Israel wanted USA support for remaking the middle east to their liking. Jewish neocons studied the matter and determined that a “new pearl harbor” would be necessary. 9-11 conveniently provided that transformational event, which Israeli operatives celebrated as it happened and a pro-Israel Jewish billionaire profited from handsomely (luckily avoiding death as well). Later, NY Times columnist Tom Friedman told Haaretz:

Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It’s the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It’s the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.

It seems clear that GWBush & Co were complicit. They were warned about threats of an attack but did little, and then they lied USA into war with Iraq ( Yellowcake !!!! ). There are reports that GWBush was angling for a war war with Saddam’s Iraq even before 9-11. Probably to finish what his father had started and to protect his girls (who Saddam had threatened). And the taking down of WTC7 benefited certain US interests (like Arthur Andersen). Even so, it seems clear that Israel got what it wanted. The “peace dividend” from the Cold War would never happen, USA military would be deployed to the Middle East instead.
This is not academic. At moa, we have talked about how USA involvement in Middle East distracted the Empire from the important task of getting the post-cold war relationship with Russia and China right. Imagine if USA had put the money wasted on the Iraq War into supporting Russia’s transition to a market economy? Maybe Russia would not have turned to China. Now the Empire faces its worst nightmare: a united Russia and China.
And Israel still tries to manipulate USA into fighting its wars (Syria and Iran).
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2021 19:22 utc | 143

EU hypocrisy at its best
https://northafricapost.com/50636-european-union-does-not-recognize-covishield-vaccine.html
covishield is the astra zeneca produced in india with intl funding for worldwide distribution…. the EU gives it to poor countries but does not recognize it.
it s all about migrations.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 25 2021 20:01 utc | 145

@ Peter AU1 (#104),
Before discussing tactics, please state, what are Financial Empire’s goals and future plans for Russia?
The Dollar Empire successfully outsmarted the Soviet Union by driving oil prices down and exploiting internal challenges to bring it down. Nations without imagination think of nuclear wars as the first tactic to capture a nation. It then installed Yeltsin and didn’t care about Russia until Vladimir Putin declared Russia’s sovereignty.
Even now the Financial Empire thinks, time is on its side. It wants to hurt Putin’s reputation and create internal and external challenges, until it doesn’t have to deal with him. According to the NATO Bloc, “The alliance now seems to have taken Putin up on his favorite game: seeing who blinks first.”

Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 20:13 utc | 147

@ juliania (#126),
Please don’t misconstrue. I am saying, China and Russia aren’t addressing their negative framing and thereby not winning the hearts and minds of the populace. They’re letting this negative framing stay. I didn’t say anything else. Also, in the information warfare China and Russia aren’t leading but following in a passive way.
In the information arena, it is not about forbearance but defining the FRAMING. No one is questioning Vladimir Putin’s accomplishments in the defense, trade or de-dollarization. In the communication space, he needs to come across as a leader, clearly articulating vision for Russia, global relationships and principles. Just analyze Putin’s introduction and the first question, at the summit press conference. He didn’t have a clear leadership message and the Russian PR team didn’t do well.
In the Helsinki press conference in 2018, Trump gave victory to Putin on a platter. One’s communication strategy can’t be based on mistakes of opponents. Maybe, I am missing something, then please share Russia’s key message along with Russian media articles.

Posted by: Max | Jun 25 2021 20:38 utc | 149

Some good news…
Brazil judge annuls all of Moro’s cases against ex-president Lula

Posted by: farm ecologist | Jun 25 2021 20:52 utc | 151

@152 Jackrabbit
I may be wrong but I think John has been asking what happened in the sense of, HOW were the buildings taken down, by what physical mechanism and process?
You’re answering WHY they were taken down, and by whom, but I don’t think that’s what he’s asking. That’s why he’s talking about rubble, or the lack of it. He can be elliptical, but I think it’s the physical process of destruction he’s pointing to.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 23:00 utc | 153

@149 Max – “Maybe, I am missing something, then please share Russia’s key message along with Russian media articles.”
I think what you’re missing is the fact that the way Russia and China are fighting this information war cannot be shown by the quantity or quality of its media articles. That’s not how they’re fighting this war.
We’ve discussed this at some length here. My thought is that Russia is not answering the lies of the west by returning words in some kind of equivalence. In terms of words, they were greatly outgunned. So instead, they focused on paradigms, changing entire paradigms, and largely by example rather than by counter-arguments.
And they’ve been enormously successful with this strategy, if in fact it is a strategy. The multi-polar world draws immense strength from Russia. Russia’s unabated insistence on the rule of law and the value of the UN has given the rest of the free world a yardstick to measure by, and a focal point of agreement. The free world has a future of international law and an unbiased UN as a goal now. And although that path still remains to be trodden, Russia made that path for everyone.
None of this was achieved by getting in a contest of words with the US Wurlitzer. It was achieved by picking a target and staying true to that course, without deviating. Over time, Russia has re-established its classical reputation as a straight shooter, a reliable partner, a true friend, and an adherent of principles.
To put this in other words – when Russia came to the aid of Syria and her soldiers gave their lives as if fighting for their own motherland, this example in itself spoke in ways worth millions of words, and won the hearts and minds of anti-colonialists all over the world. Russia become a linchpin of the Middle East – and the world – without even publishing a newsletter.
With power like this, why would Russia (and similarly, China) care to bandy words with known liars? This too, is a paradigm changed by Russia: the world sees that while the US owns the mighty propaganda machine, a nation can win without even having to resort to name calling, but rather by establishing strong fundamentals and strategic dominance – and then the US is powerless.
The war of words is being fought without words, and inexorably the quiet ones are winning the world. Hearts and minds are being won in the best way of all, silently.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 25 2021 23:18 utc | 155

Grieved @155–
Precisely! There are words, then there are deeds. An old adage says: Deeds are more powerful than words. Many in the world can see that although it erected the UN and helped establish its Charter, the USA has done more than any nation to overturn both right from its beginning and becoming ever more obvious as time went by. The annual vote related to the gross illegality and inhumanity of the Cuban Blockade reminds the entire planet of the Outlaw US Empire’s dirty deeds, and there are many as we both know. The blockage of humanitarian aid during the pandemic and subsequent deeds with the vaccines are yet more dirty deeds the entire world knows about. Can you think of a good deed done by the Empire since Biden became POTUS beyond merely reversing Trump policies? I can’t. Meanwhile Russia continues to do what it can to aid its people during the pandemic, particularly aid to families with young children. Then there’s Syria.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 25 2021 23:49 utc | 157

@ Arby (#158)
Russia has accomplished a lot and is being challenged by the Empire. It might ignore the audience in the West, but there are 6 billion people who it needs to win in the Eurasia. Good communication is one of the key to success and essential.
No one is asking Russia to save the world. Its supporters are asking for clear communication of its position.

Posted by: Max | Jun 26 2021 0:06 utc | 159

Max, Andre Vitchek wrote a wonderful article about selling out his homeland for blue jeans and plastic bags . He recalled how he was enthralled by the west. I think Putin still has a bit of that in him.

Posted by: arby | Jun 26 2021 0:40 utc | 161

Grieved @Jun25 23:00 #153
The conversation with john speaks for itself.
john points to a “crystalline moment” (missing WTC rubble) but presents bogus evidence. Then, despite having raised the issue of a 9-11 cover-up, john does a complete flip and says we don’t know what happened so we can’t know who was responsible.
I sense a desire to muddy-the-waters to protect Israel as the 20-year anniversary of 9-11 approaches. Hasbara blowhards think we ordinary people are stoopid.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 26 2021 1:22 utc | 163

@ 163 jackrabbit… in fairness jr – john is about as far away as one could get from a hasbara blowhard!
@ 164 max… i tend to share grieved viewpoint here… how is your russian translation skills? i am sure russias viewpoint gets misconstrued regularly in the western msm.. it goes with the territory but this doesn’t mean that russia is ambiguous on its position… just staying focused on the more recent event with the hms provocateur getting close to crimeas shores – do you believe russia hasn’t communicated effectively?? i am curious…

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2021 2:10 utc | 165

and since this is the open thread – i am wondering what’s up with firing shots at the columbia presidents helicopter??
and for any music freaks – a recently released live recording of dewey redman that i think is quite good…
dewey redman is from texas – dead now, but i saw him live 20 or more years ago..
Dewey Redman Quartet – Live Archival Recording

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2021 2:16 utc | 167

@32 Peter AU1
Australian Citizens Party, is listed on Andy Fleming blog, he lives in Melbourne and tracks fascist and neo nazi groups in Australia. Andy has CEC or rebranded as Australian Citizens Party, listed. I would say because of the link to Lyndon Larouche.
I’ve watched a couple of ACP videos and I thought one was good, however of you dig a little deeper, I assess them right wing, and while I watch their videos, not sure I would vote for them.
For some reason I looked into Lyndon Larouche, it may have been after I read Andy’s blog about CEC.
Larouche is also found at Marxist.org website, he wrote using the name Lyn Marcus, or Lin Marcus.
US journalist Chip Berlet and Dennis King are good sources for Lyndon Larouche.
Dennis King has a website Larouche Planet, I think you have to subscribe now, however he has written a book, so Google his name along with Larouche and it should come up at Amazon.
Chip Berlet articles
http://www.politicalresearch.org/1989/03/10/fascism-wrapped-american-flag
This one you have to download to read
http://www.politicalresearch.org/1999/02/01/right-woos-left
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2015/03/05/drawing-lines-against-racism-and-fascism
This is CEC same as ACP, and Larouche, it’s a PDf, hope this works.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/downloads/ADL%2520report%2520on%2520CEC.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKwZ3urLTxAhVaxDgGHd0BBiwQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1waf1Q6T19SUywfq5Hm7Za

Posted by: Debz251 | Jun 26 2021 3:40 utc | 169

Max, I do apologize to karlof1 for putting my own spin on your post at 44,

If you think they have a good position then please summarize China & Russia’ global conflict framing in a single sentence.
They don’t have a good and succinct response to the framing of the global conflict by their opponents, “democracies vs autocracies.” They can say what they want, until they’ve framed their position clearly and concisely they are not winning hearts and minds in the world. They need a tagline.
They would do better by framing it as between, “sovereignties vs suzerainties” or “unilateralism vs multilateralism”,… Until they’ve a response to this framing by their adversaries they’re losing.

How was my response in my first paragraph a misconstruction of this? I thought I was responding directly at 126, when I addressed specifically the portions of your comment that I have underlined. Yet you start your follow up comment:

Please don’t misconstrue. I am saying, China and Russia aren’t addressing their negative framing and thereby not winning the hearts and minds of the populace. They’re letting this negative framing stay. I didn’t say anything else. Also, in the information warfare China and Russia aren’t leading but following in a passive way.
In the information arena, it is not about forbearance but defining the FRAMING.

First, I said that your framing isn’t correct for Russia and China because there is no ‘versus’ in their ‘framing’, (as Grieved has said better than me). The following paragraphs of my answer dealt with my own understanding of their positive approach, and not with what you had suggested – not a misconstruction as far as I can see. You are free to disagree, but I don’t believe I misconstrued what you had said. You wanted them to take up a ‘this versus that’ framework to be convincing; I think what they are doing is working just fine.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 26 2021 4:18 utc | 171

@ juliania | Jun 26 2021 4:18 utc | 171 with the communications with Max
Max is fairly new to the MoA bar and seems well intentioned but a bit discordant around the edges. I am in stand back and watch Max interaction with others and the truth will out over time like many other short term MoA patrons…..I frequent enough blogs to have enormous respect for the civil tenor at the MoA bar….kudos to all….but we can be a bit hard and cutting when necessary which helps all out in clarifying the word salad we call textual communication….in English…sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 26 2021 4:56 utc | 173

@psychohistorian, @juliania:
Max points out that the Russians have never been very good at Western style Goebbels/Bernays “Public Relations” (or Propaganda, as I call it, bullshit, deception, or dissembling).
He has a point, they aren’t/haven’t/don’t.
I think the disagreement is about how important that really is, whether it is really a good idea for them to do that or not.
I agree with you & juliania; in the Russian case, in the present situation, they are doing fine, but I don’t think Max’s point is wrong.
Anyway, the Chinese are the Good cop, and they have been working at western style PR for a while now, and they are indeed getting better at it. The Russians are the Bad Cop and they don’t really need the fancy PR, they have the goods, the facts, the guns on their side.
IMHO.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 26 2021 8:02 utc | 175

Mark Wallace, Joe Leiberman; John Bolton; Jeb Bush; Frances Townsend; Robert Richer; and Norman Roule, FETO Gulen reported involved in Turkish Democracy Project (TDP) anyone know anything about this apparently private venture?
thanks Grieved @139 for ..Iveremectin received from India containing 100x12mg pills and 100x6mg pills of human grade Ivermectin. The total cost was $65 USD, which included $35 shipping cost.
How was it obtained? “I followed the link from the FLCCC website to indiamart.com, which opens to a search result for IVM, and multiple suppliers. I filled out the simple request for quotes for what I was looking for, and two suppliers responded. All this happens in the indiamart interface, which gives a great chat record of the transaction, and also copies to email.
Credit card worked: the package traveled by postal mail, clearing India customs after about 3 days and getting to me in the States within the next week. I’m not trying to shill for any commercial entity, but it all worked and I thought you’d like to know.”

Posted by: snake | Jun 26 2021 10:12 utc | 177

S @ 176:
Have you seen this April 2017 post on the Khan Sheikhoun attack by HumanRightsInvestigations.org?
The alleged Khan Sheikhoun chemical attack

Posted by: Jen | Jun 26 2021 11:06 utc | 179

john | Jun 26 2021 10:50 utc | 178
Idle curiousity on my part, but I can’t recollect ever seeing a photo of the pile of rubble of building No.7. There must have been some…… I suppose.
Simply asking, how do the photos of the rubble of 1+2 and 7 compare in size? (Logically the volume of 7 should have been smaller than that of 1+2 combined)
The WT buildings were “reduced” from the top => downwards, while 7 lost it’s foundations first and then fell down.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 26 2021 11:34 utc | 181

Debz251 @ 169
I took the trouble to read your linked Chip Berlet articles. The origins stories for Larouche and his organizations are entirely fictional. Larouche never had any presence whatsoever in SDS.
Why does someone with no organization, no following, no concrete anything, get continual massive press coverage?
Because it is a story someone wants you to hear.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 26 2021 11:57 utc | 183

Stonebird @ 181
Simply asking, how do the photos of the rubble of 1+2 and 7 compare in size
7 appears to be larger.
That’s it to the left of WTC6 in the center with the weird hole, the nice clean dome of WFC2 in the foreground.

Posted by: john | Jun 26 2021 12:54 utc | 185

john | Jun 26 2021 12:54 utc | 185
Thanks a lot. Why does everything concerning the WT buildings get more complex as time goes on?
ie. I hadn’t realised that 6 had a hole in the middle!
I can speculate that the building had a central “plaza” or some such architectural feature, but from the photo, it appears that a large part of the “surface facings” of the lower part of WTC 1 (North) lean against it.
What amazes me is that comprehensive samples were not taken all around the area, before the rubble was disposed of.
****
NOW I learn that the top 19 floors of WT 7 were “lightened” to make double height levels for Solomon Bros. “A building within a building”. …?…

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 26 2021 14:18 utc | 187

Xinhua Headlines: Why Western political theories can’t explain success of century-old CPC

The Tibetan herdsman, whose family previously struggled to make ends meet in a mountainous rural village in northwest China’s Qinghai Province, now owns 80 sheep and 20 cattle thanks to poverty-alleviation subsidies and loans from the government.
Sonam Tsering, who had bid farewell to his former home, a dilapidated adobe structure surrounded by uneven stone walls, welcomed Xi outside his new house that is equipped with a flush toilet and a driveway that leads up to the front door.
“Thanks to the Party’s favorable policies, the lives of us herders are getting better every day,” Sonam Tsering said.
The visit of Xi came less than a month before the world’s largest Marxist party, which has seen its membership explode from 50-plus individuals to more than 91 million, celebrates its centennial.

Westerners like to link the CPC with some kind of Confucian orientalist mysticism in order to explain its successes or failures. But there’s no Confucius here: the CPC is a Marxist party.
The rise of the CPC marks an era in China where superstition gave way to science as the way to go with governance. And to this task only Marxism is up to.

Posted by: vk | Jun 26 2021 15:37 utc | 189

@ Max | Jun 26 2021 4:02 utc | 170.. thanks for sharing your impressions and interpretations on what is happening on the media front with regard to russia communicating its position effectively… let me quote from an article that i think sums up a good reason why the positions of russia are not heard, or worse – slanted in an unfavourable manner which is generally all that i see..
“It is one of the most important aspects of our media system, and yet hardly known to the public: most of the international news coverage in Western media is provided by only three global news agencies based in New York, London and Paris.
The key role played by these agencies means Western media often report on the same topics, even using the same wording. In addition, governments, military and intelligence services use these global news agencies as multipliers to spread their messages around the world.”
https://swprs.org/the-propaganda-multiplier/
i am not saying russia couldn’t be doing more to convey their position to those interested.. as you will note karlof1 and paco often quote directly from the russian gov’ts website which is truly impressive… they are more then willing to share many of the interviews and details of the russian presidency… now, perhaps RT news could be doing better… it seems i am following all this quite a bit differently then you.. i think russia is different then china… perhaps the fact china has 10X the number of people helps get the info out on china more successfully… judging from the way they are characterized in the western msm, i would tend to disagree with this characterization though.. it stands to reason a person in the usa or canada for example, will have to go out of their way to get a perspective on russia or china.. most people probably won’t and i doubt they will ask many questions on the nature of the info they receive as well… cheers james

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2021 15:58 utc | 191

Debz251 169
I may look into the more at a later date. If my health were bttere I would probably get in contact with them and find out more about them that way. All I know of them is whats on their website and that does include connections to Larouch. Their policies are pre privatization/green/gay/woke. Right wing as in nazi or racists or simply conservative for this day and age I do not know. But sound policies for international relation and trade and for building domestic economy on infrastructure.
I had not been aware of them until just recently and with my health as it is probably wont look into them any further. As far as I can see the way to be sure of what they are is to get in contact with them and after some time make a decision. If I’m still around at next voting time I may put a tick on their box rather than drawing a line across the page.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 26 2021 16:10 utc | 193

A few people that I have talked to think Russia is a communist country which translates to evil in their heads, end of discussion.

Posted by: arby | Jun 26 2021 17:01 utc | 195

oldhippie@188 opts for the national leadership insider story. Sure, that’s the ticket.
Being one of the people vociferous about how Larouche was a crank (citing my reading of his book Dialectical Econmics, no less,) oldhippie thinks it’s a rebuttal of my comments to claim that…Larouche was a crank? oldhippie is not a deep thinker, even if oldhippie was intimate with all the national leadership of SDS. I can only conclude that oldhippie “refutes” me on Larouche being a crank, even though I said that already, because oldhippie is peeved that I criticize Larouche as a rabid right-winger. *That* gores oldhippie’s ox!
Larouche being a big theoretician in SWP partly depends on what you mean by big theoretician. My reading of the SWP internal education literature isn’t hugely extensive but they were pretty light on theoreticians of any kind. The internal education really tended to rely on Leon Trotsky, despite oldhippie’s claims. Apparently the SDS elite was well briefed on SWP internal life too. At any rate, oldhippie keeps misunderstanding—peculiarly, for what reason?—that what Larouche really was and what Larouche told people he was and henchment agreed are two different things. Think Trump and his worshippers telling us Trump was a dissident, an outsider, a stable genius, a reindustrializer, an economic nationalist, on and on till you vomit.
Lastly of course the claim that Larouche was a fake who was promoted evades the real question, who was doing the promoting? Larouche with money swindled from old right-wing farts outraged at this or that? Or the CIA? Given that oldhippies simultaneously claims Larouche was insignificant *and* a government plant, the comments are much like someone shouting “Murder!” then refusing to either name the victim or the murderer! But I suppose this is to be expected of someone who truly believes they can do political analysis by recognizing FBI shoes. I suppose this is why oldhippie appears to be a leading commenter at MoA.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 26 2021 17:16 utc | 197

Posted by: arby | Jun 26 2021 17:01 utc | 195
A few people that I have talked to think Russia is a communist country which translates to evil in their heads, end of discussion.
And yet those same people happily frequent the nearby community centers, send their kids to community colleges and some of them are even member of strata councils (council in Russian is soviet which means literally advice).
What about you, do you think that communism is evil?

Posted by: hopehely | Jun 26 2021 17:25 utc | 199