@215 There seems to be some information missing about the 215 bodies found in Kamloops juliama. Some are calling it genocide. Over what period did they die? What did they die of? I doubt if we will ever know and the people responsible for the school are probably dead too.

Posted by: dh | Jun 19 2021 1:15 utc | 103

@103 You seem to have missed the point of my post. I actually think it’s absurd that Canadians should be made to wallow in guilt about the past but that seems to be the gist of the article posted at #93

Posted by: dh | Jun 19 2021 1:22 utc | 105

@ 101 dh and juliania… lol… not a laughing matter, but it seems to me the ordinary canuck likes to wallow in guilt… and it is a useful tool for blackmailing too.. generalized though… the church and the whole ideology of being a christian nation and forcing the right language and religion on people was not unusual 100 years ago.. i suppose the infatuation with this ideology was wearing thin by the time the 60’s rolled around and ended in the case of the residential school in kamloops in the mid 70’s… the first time i started playing professionally, i started in kamloops.. there was a joke i was told about the place – they named it as a breakfast for mechanics..
it is a sad part of canadian history, but it is built in the same way that a lot of commonwealth countries built it – glory to the queen or whatever and we’re a god fearing nation and etc. etc. truth is everyone has to account for there deeds, whether it remains hidden or not and no one escapes any of this..
it may some bizarre but i think we are all on this planet together and in all of this together.. identifying a particular way, or as a member of a particular nation has never been my thing because i have always felt we are so much more then all these limited and limiting ways of defining ourselves… i am sorry for all the suffering happening in the world today and would like to do my part to lessen all of it.. coercing me with guilt doesn’t work though… i am not into the woke movement and identity politics and all the things that are used to try to divide people… funny how certain things from the past just never completely go away like these issues, in spite of how long ago they happened.. people still seek some form of release and redemption from it all.. i read a book on the highland clearances a few months back as that is the area where my fathers ancestors came from… different story, but these stories are all stories on peoples inability to treat others with kindness and compassion.. same stuff is going on as we speak today on any number of fronts too.. i think i have lost the plot..
dh – thanks for asking! and as always i appreciate your sense of humour and perspective most of the time!

Posted by: james | Jun 19 2021 4:14 utc | 107

Australia and Zambia are the only two countries in the world with a Pentecostal head of government. The more that Australians find out about Pentecostal beliefs, the more they will realise how distant those views are from their own.
“when you are fighting the good fight, it is easy to think any tactics are permissible. If you think you are the instrument of God, it is a short step to thinking that whatever advances your cause is justified.”
Read how Pastor Morrison’s crackpot sect promotes exceptionalism and the ‘prosperity gospel.’ Of course we can throw in Zionism and rapture cultism for good measure.
https://insidestory.org.au/fighting-the-good-fight/

Posted by: Paul | Jun 19 2021 4:29 utc | 109

Justin Fauci exposed by The Grayzone
Notorious for his presence in viral video of Israeli home thefts in Jerusalem’s Sheikh Jarrah, “Yaakov Fauci” is actually a federally charged con artist from Long Island named Justin Fauci.
https://thegrayzone.com/2021/06/09/israeli-home-thief-long-island-financial-fraudster/

Posted by: Paul | Jun 19 2021 5:06 utc | 111

Reposting from the China space superiority thread.
Biolabs USA May 2015: What, me worry??
A USA TODAY Network investigation identifies more than 200 biosafety level 3 and 4 lab facilities that work with dangerous pathogens – and reveals safety records that some of them fought to keep secret.
Vials of bioterror bacteria have gone missing. Lab mice infected with deadly viruses have escaped, and wild rodents have been found making nests with research waste. Cattle infected in a university’s vaccine experiments were repeatedly sent to slaughter and their meat sold for human consumption. Gear meant to protect lab workers from lethal viruses such as Ebola and bird flu has failed, repeatedly.
A USA TODAY Network investigation reveals that hundreds of lab mistakes, safety violations and near-miss incidents have occurred in biological laboratories coast to coast in recent years, putting scientists, their colleagues and sometimes even the public at risk.
Oversight of biological research labs is fragmented, often secretive and largely self-policing, the investigation found. And even when research facilities commit the most egregious safety or security breaches — as more than 100 labs have — federal regulators keep their names secret.
NO NO NO… look over there… Wuhan.
2015? perhaps this paper might be relevant?
The researchers at University of North Carolina Chapel Hill however did manipulate corona viruses to make them more human transmissible. This is the article in Nature Medicine from Nov 9 2015 that spells out the damning trail all the way back to the USA. I know, they are persistent in denying its relevance. But there are so many papers.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 19 2021 6:57 utc | 113

Most ppl only read titles
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57525252
… so it’s always better to put the blame on the Palestinians (rule 1 of Western journalism in the last 50 years).
Covid: Palestinians cancel vaccine swap deal with Israel
… then one can always mention some embarrassing details in the body of the article, which few will actually read (and not just skim).
“Earlier, Israel said it didn’t need an ageing stock of vaccines and they were to be used to speed up the Palestinian vaccination programme.
In return, the Palestinians were to give Israel a similar number of vaccines they are expecting from the Pfizer organisation later in the year.
Palestinian Authority Health Minister Mai Alkaila said they had been told the jabs would expire in July or August, but, when they arrived, the marked date was June.”

Posted by: Mina | Jun 19 2021 9:15 utc | 115

Perhaps I am suspicious but I find the USA pointing the finger at the Wuhan lab and China in general to be less than genuine. So I have been doing a little catching up on the Biolab perspective.
Earlier I posted a link to a 2015 report from USA Today and so took a detailed peek at the data in that report. There is a state by state analysis of USA mainland chemical laboratories of the BSL 3 and 4 status here.
I have extracted a summary of that 2015 data that shows there are at least 195 BSL 3 standard labs and at least 8 BSL 4 standard labs in the USA. See below for a state by state summary.
Inventory of USA BSL 3 and BSL 4 labs
NOTE, the folllowing caveat was made for every state: Facilities that include BSL-3 or BSL-4 labs identified by USA TODAY’s research. Additional “high-containment” labs may also exist in this state.
Summary by state:
AL-4, AK-2, AR-3, AZ-4, CA-10, CO-5, CT-2, DE-2, DC-1, FL-3,
GA-5 +2x BSL4, HI-2, ID-1, IL-7, IN-1, IA-3, KS-4 +1x BSL4, KY-2,
LA-4, ME-1, MD-13 +3x BSL4, MA-9, MI-3, MN-3, MS-2, MO-5, MT-2,
NE-3, NV-1, NH-1, NJ-1, NM-3, NY-14, NC-4, ND-1,
OH-7, OK-3, OR-2, PA-6, RI-1, SC-1, SD-2,
TN-5, TX-12 +2x BSL4,
UT-4, VT-2, VA-9, WA-6, WV-2, WI-3, WY-1
Total BSL3=195 and BSL4=8
I suspect there is much room for human error and misadventure from that large number of facilities and the report actually details some of those misadventures and calamities. I need to match every coronavirus research paper against each laboratory to get a layer of analysis that might be pertinent. But that is a herculean task tonight. (Perhaps when the sun rises I will tackle this maze a little further.)
So while the wagging finger and yelling at the top of their lungs is coming from the USA, pause for a moment and just consider the enormity of this situation. I have broken it down to the name of every laboratory in every state if b would permit me to post 9 pages. But the link will take you to the broad data set to digest.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 19 2021 11:36 utc | 117

Vk @ 17:
May be you should choose your sources a bit more carefully:
“WHO’s Proposed Actions for Member States include preventing drinking during pregnancy and preventing foetal alcohol spectrum disorders (bottom of p17). There is no proposal to promote abstinence among women of childbearing age.”
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-the-first-draft-of-the-whos-global-alcohol-action-plan-2022-2030-to-strengthen-implementation-of-the-global-strategy-to-reduce-the-harmful-use-of-alcohol/

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jun 19 2021 12:31 utc | 119

@Hemiola, 116
The situation in Greece is getting really serious.
“ The National Bioethics Committee is expected to give its approval for the mandatory vaccination of specific social and professional groups, such as health workers, in its report on Friday to Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis.
…
It is a given, however, that from next autumn vaccinated people will enjoy privileges such as being able to eat in indoor dining areas. Fully vaccinated people will begin enjoying privileges in the coming weeks, as they will be able to head to gyms without a mask and enter indoor cinemas that open at the beginning of July with the demonstration of their certificate without having to upload their self-test results. As of July 1, the fully vaccinated are expected to be excluded from the program of mandatory self-tests.“
https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1163106/committee-to-green-light-mandatory-vaccinations/
As you can see we are heading into a dark future with ppl forced to take experimental medicines and being discriminated against if they don’t.
I think this is a very terrifying future and I’m surprised by the complete indifference with which a lot of ppl are treating the issue.

Posted by: DG | Jun 19 2021 13:13 utc | 121

@122, are you woke, William? Hard to tell these days 😉

Posted by: juliania | Jun 19 2021 15:12 utc | 123

James and DH,
Canada is pretty chummy with these guys for example–
Saudi officials plan to execute over 40 teenagers over participation in Qatif protests, say activists

Posted by: arby | Jun 19 2021 15:19 utc | 125

hey gang… thanks for the comments… i didn’t read that whole article from gowan arby but thanks for sharing it. i tend to see it like @ 126 dh… yes – canada did criticize ksa, but the fact is what the people of canada want and what the corporations and politicians want seem like 2 different realities… this is not unusual either…
i think canada has always played a minor but important role on the world stage… we live next to the usa and it makes sense we would try to get along with them… that we now align with them on all foreign policy issues is unfortunate… we probably did something similar in an earlier period in our history – aligned with britain… we are always aligning with powers that are bigger then us and not really taking an independent position.. and we are typically caught in the middle of a lot of this as was the case with the huawai ex at vancouver airport… we really need better politicians.. as that article says that arby shared – there is really very little difference between the major political parties in canada at present… and there definitely isn’t much in the way of leadership.. that is a thing of the past here in canada…
so, it would be nice if canada could get its head out of its ass, but until a real leader comes along, i think things will continue in a similar direction.. we aren’t a big player and we get walked on regularly… and our politicians sell us out regularly… read linda mcquaigs latest book – the sport and prey of capitalist… great book that covers much of this and more…

Posted by: james | Jun 19 2021 15:56 utc | 127

capitalist sssssssssss. oh well.. another typo..

Posted by: james | Jun 19 2021 15:58 utc | 129

All right, I’ll add one comment, since the Canada-conversation turned to Saudi Arabia. I did find an article on from a PR trade magazine a few years ago about Saudi Arabia hiring a new PR firm. The strategy from that PR firm? To make Saudi Arabia look like Canada. ‘We have to make Saudi Arabia seem like Canada.’ That was the strategy.

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 19 2021 16:09 utc | 131

Posted by: james | Jun 19 2021 15:56 utc | 127
You can be proud of the question that the Radio Canada correspondent asked Putin, compared with the vitriol, bile and bad faith of the US correspondents. Canada still has a good international image, I think the flag has a lot to do with it 😉 but nothing like what it had during the present PM’s father Pierre Elliot. I spent sometime in BC, I’ll always be thankful to that impressive land, but in spite of all the positive aspects it is a colonial project, and I imagine things are not as easy now as they used to be, yesterday a friend from Montreal sent me a link about a new mortgage craze and housing costs with the average house price in Canada close to 700K Cad$, which means in Vancouver must be a lot more since it always was more expensive, that takes a lot of years to pay, with a decent job. By the way I remember Kelowna as a nice small place by a lake.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 19 2021 16:31 utc | 133

@ 133 paco… thanks paco.. unfortunately there is a lot of group think here in canada and our broadcasting outlets – cbc – are not very helpful.. we seem to have swallowed a lot of the koolaid from south of the border – without question.. we might be a bit more laid back, but even that seems to be changing.. the 700K sounds about right where i am, but not sure if it is that way all across canada.. they are blowing a bubble and there seems to be no end in sight on the r/e front.. vancouver prices are obviously more.. it is unsustainable – much like our collective actions on the planet are unsustainable.. i go back to the issue of how the financial world is set up at present and the need for this to be completely overhauled or taken apart.. i can dream!
kelowna is no longer very quaint.. in fact – it is my least favourite place in the okanogan area… we have some friends who lives in peachland – nicer, but again – run over with big box houses and many from vancouver cashing out… prices are unrealistically high in this area too.. our friends live on a small farm they inherited from her family who were original settlers in the westbank – peachland area.. we picked italian plums on their farm late summer last year..
on a related note – you are in spain correct?? we are talking about going to seville next year… any thoughts around that?? all travel ideas welcomed, if we get to make this trip.. thanks for your many posts and input here at moa paco!

Posted by: james | Jun 19 2021 17:03 utc | 135

Concerning the summit people need to remember that it was very short.
Considering the things Lavrov said they talked about I can all too easily imagine the Russians saying that and then the US counterparts more or less simply nodding while it passes over their heads. I’m willing to bet a pilsner on that 🙂
No, things can be true without being significant.
Instead with the short amount of time available (even less time after each item in any of either party’s “laundry list”) if anything at all of significance was discussed (and I do believe there was) it would have been a handful of things at most, and it would have had to be very direct and efficient. Two or three topics of fact that could be mutually “agreed to” seems to be the reasonable limit.
(I apologize if this is stepping on Lavrov’s and/or Putin’s shoes.)
In addition for there to be anything to discuss or analyze back in Russia ie. anything of genuine significance, anything of actual consequence, one is forced to read between the lines and look for any mutual reality checks taking place.
In the current situation where a basic common understanding is missing one simply doesn’t discuss the finer points of anything unless one deliberately wants to waste time, and no time seems to have been wasted since they concluded early.
– – – – –
Putin’s description of Biden as “energetic” …is perhaps a tad unfortunate 🙂
– – – – –
If nothing else I say the things no one else seems to be saying here or elsewhere.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 19 2021 17:44 utc | 137

Sunny Runny Burger
My guess is that China was the subject Biden or his handlers were most interested in. Like Trump wanting to attack Iran, US now wants Russia to turn a blind eye to any US attack on China. I think that US is now beginning to understand that if they use nukes against any country, Russia can and will destroy them. Putin has said in one or more interviews that if a fight is inevitable, strike first. I was never sure of how he judged if a fight is inevitable, but now I think that line is when US uses nukes against any other country.
In a speech a few years back, Putin stated a nuclear attack against an ally no matter how small would be considered a nuclear attack against Russia. After the Jerusalem meeting of Israel, US, and Russia, the Russian envoy felt the need at the press conference to specifically state in public that Iran was an ally of Russia.
Here in Australia, a lot of money is going to be used to upgrade and also build new military bases supposedly for joint training exercises with the US. US will be storing large amounts of military supplies here. Australia is looking at building US designed ballistic missiles here? (most likely the building will consist of pulling a missile ouit of a box and putting a made in Australia sticker on it) In plain speak, US are going to set up nuke missiles across the north all pointed at China.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 19 2021 18:22 utc | 139

Thinking on the summit and the slow dawning of the US that mutually assured destruction is alive and well, or if anything Russia’s destruction may not be quite as assured as it is for the US.
Back when Putin unveiled the new generation of strategic weapons systems, He said “now you will listen to us” so perhaps it didn’t take to long for what Putin was saying to get through Biden’s dementured skull.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 19 2021 20:06 utc | 141

Hemiola #116
Thank you for that post and I have to add that many centuries ago people were murdered who had the temerity to scientifically describe the earth’s motion around the sun and not vice versa. Many western countries have descended to this current lunacy due to big pharma and having abandoned their critical faculties. There is immense pressure to conform or be canceled and it is a response mechanism, corporate culture, call it what you will, that will destroy the west.
I was with a group of people the other day and the talk strayed to vaccines and they each told their stories and I would estimate that many people in that group have not even considered the circumstance beyond the headline or lead TV news story. They all were desperate to hear my story and so I told them that I had advice that due to my medical history to very specifically avoid the jabs on offer and had the emergency medications needed to respond. They were amazed, they were wandering into their lives asleep to the repercussions and were astounded when I advised that when a century old vaccine technology such as Sputnik V or Sinovac is available in Australia, I would seek it out if I still had no natural immunity. They were speechless when I pointed out that some 98% of the population are entirely unaffected by the virus. They had been extrapolating the propaganda to think they were doomed without the jab. These were very healthy older people.
This is a great takeaway from Matt Taibbi’s post:

As a result, doctors and organizations that may have little to do with politics but have advocated for ivermectin, from Dr. Tess Lawrie’s British Ivermectin Recommendation Development (BIRD) to California pulmonologist Roger Seheult to many others, have been shut down online with the same unilateral abruptness platforms apply to hate speech or threats. Dr. Sabine Hazan, a gastroenterologist and CEO of a genetic sequencing laboratory called ProGenaBiome in Ventura, California, was blindsided. She got involved with ivermectin when she was pulling out the stops for Covid-19 patients.
“I felt, no one is going to be investigating a cheap solution, so I did it myself,” she says.
Some weeks ago, Hazan got up early on a Sunday to present findings to a group of physicians that included Dr. Kylie Wagstaff, one of the physicians in the first in vitro ivermectin study, a family doctor in Zimbabwe named Jackie Stone, and others.
She uploaded the talk on YouTube, and “lo and behold, it got taken down. It’s amazing. These are doctors talking. It’s not anyone selling anything.”

Soon they will be burning books again at this rate.
Its not Fahrenheit 451 that we are witnessing, its Fahrenheit the byte killer.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 19 2021 21:31 utc | 143

Julianna @ 120
So you have earthworms? None in our garden. I’ve helped two others turn over plots in their gardens, none there either. There are reports of worms locally, I’ve seen none.
Can work all day in the garden or painting, no bugs. Even tasks as priming underside of porches and stairs there are no bugs to be seen. No bugs, thus no spiders.
Bird population might be one quarter of last year and last year was a shadow of the past.
Have you noticed the trees dying? Some can see it, most have no clue what I am talking about. The roar of chainsaws and chipper trucks is as constant around here as the sound of gas lawnmowers, everyone thinks it is just individual trees getting old, no one sees that it is systemic.
While others rant about the evil liberal plot to gin up climate change when there is none, I simply grieve every minute of every day. When we do see a bird we say goodbye.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 19 2021 21:40 utc | 145

@145 Here you go OH. Good exercise too…
https://www.brinkmanreforestation.ca/
Maybe buy a sack of birdseed while you’re out there. 🙂

Posted by: dh | Jun 19 2021 22:11 utc | 147

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 19 2021 21:31 utc | 143
I am of the opinion that what is needed is preventives and vaccines to subdue this novel, probably GOF lab-escaped virus; and the primary reason ivermectin is black-listed in the Western media is due to financial interests — by interests who want to profit from products currently in the big pharma pipeline. The earlier reasoning to obtain EUA ifor vaccines I s passed imo.
Can anyone remember how many times we had to hear the name of a drug product, beginning with the letter “R” — worthless and expensive, promoted as anti-covid treatment world wide including by the former Potus PR team? Even wealthier Indian areas are still paying for this snake oil.
Solutions to a problem in the current (declining) US financial empire are unacceptable if they are simple, unpatented and cheap. Our bodies are currently one of their last home frontiers for exploitation. So ivermectin “fails” in the so-called west due to its potential to suck out profit takings by rentiers, lives be damned. Also, as julianna always stresses, making a mask is simple and a home-made solution to get by in such a crisis. Nobody profits but everybody benefits. Also imo, the right vaccine for you is a best option if you’re in good health to receive it, some better than others for individuals depending on age, health status and circumstances.
I suppose I am a little dictatorial as I would have— if I had had the power— called a cessation to all activities for two to three weeks when this thing became apparent, leaving it nowhere to reproduce. Libertarians would have screamed, as they did indeed even as this best-case scenario for curtailing the novel virus tout de suit was not pursued in most of the west.
As I imagine a two or three week paid vacation would have been welcomed by most working-class people burdened by 40 years of neoliberal assault but drawing out the pandemic to benefit profit takers at the expense of workers widens the class divide— it glares at us tauntingly. Who with what ideology will respond?

Posted by: suzan | Jun 19 2021 22:45 utc | 149

oldhippie #150
Thank you for your tree story. They are still robust here in the bunya nut republik. Recently I traveled through a burned out zone of two years ago that everyone had declared lost and yet almost every tree was sprouting new branches and likely would set an abundance of flower and seed in their lust to regenerate. I have inquired of my other friends of the forests and they report the same good stories. Certainly some species were set back but it appears the hardy long life trees that stand for a hundred years and more are all in sound condition.
Here the bell birds transform the forest architecture by setting parasites on a short life (80yr) variety of gum and then set up their bell ringing song to deter other birds from their food source. Beautiflul sound from a selfish intent. That parasite eventually overwhelms the gum, allows light to penetrate to the ground and then the very long life softwood and hardwood trees emerge and the parasite cant live on or affect them – thus the forest regeneration and selection process is driven by a minor sweet nectar producing parasite feeding a small bird that rings like a tiny temple bell. This regeneration/selection progresses through the forest like a hundred year long wave. The mighty hardwoods claim that zone and the softer woods proliferate where they can. The cedars and rosewoods are comfortable on the damp gullies and fringe of the hardwood that loves the slopes and ridges and the forest thrives.
In your region you may well find trees that are resilient to the human induced decimation and so plant them as your statement of defiance ~ and hope.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 19 2021 23:34 utc | 151

oldhippie @150
I don’t see that where I am right now, but it was definitely an issue back when I lived in Japan. It was not an issue that the farmers I hung around with would raise often, but when the subject came up it would kill conversation and they would look pensively across the forests lining the valley. While most of the trees seemed healthy to me, there were noticeable dead ones visible in the forest and even some of groups of dead ones. I was a newcomer to the area, of course, but the farmers had lived there their whole lives so they knew what looked normal and what didn’t, and the numbers of dead trees was apparently not normal. It was one of those sorts of situations where everyone there seemed to know and worry about it but they didn’t talk about it because they didn’t know what to do.
I hope that problem has passed since then.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 20 2021 1:20 utc | 153

posted a comment and it completely vanished after hitting the post button…
shortened version…. slash and burn is a technique used on the westcoast for planting tree seedlings.. it replicates the dynamic that has happened in uncle tungstens country where large fires took out much… essentially the fire throws a lot of carbon, and or nitrogen into the soil which is great for growing seedlings..

Posted by: james | Jun 20 2021 2:06 utc | 155

juliania – i was telling old hippie about direct deposit – burying your compost – as well! tons of worms are a byproduct of that..

Posted by: james | Jun 20 2021 2:19 utc | 157

Yes James! And the thing of it is, worms make topsoil – they are great soilbuilders. The people in the high mountains of Tibet know this – they respect their worms greatly! But we have been just as hoodwinked on this by the oligarchical system under which food is chemically produced by conglomerates owned by huge corporations – that’s death for the planet! They are only concerned to extract wealth for the corporate heads and that is a great crime. But the time is coming when what Russia learned from too much consolidation of farms – that small holdings by the little people could supply better quality food than any of that – will spread, and what China is doing for individual farming families will spread. What we individually do out of love for the soil is infinitely better and more productive!

Posted by: juliania | Jun 20 2021 2:36 utc | 159

james, did you see? A quiet young man, a Canadian, is one of the leaders at the US Open Golf Tournament – I thought of you watching today. It is at Torrey Pines, and I know folk have a justified abhorrence of too many golf courses, but to me it is better use of the land than a megamansion or two would be, or some skyscraper luxury apartments – and with the coastlines eroding, how better to let folk enjoy the landscapes provided by a golf course to get back in touch with what is happening in nature? I think we need it, even if it is a rich man’s past time. Certainly in the desert it ought to be only a desert landscape surround, and there ought to be fewer where water is a problem. But I think we need their beauty, we need the sport that is competitive but not violent. We need the beautiful trees.Good luck to your countryman, james!
I share oldhippie’s sorrow at the loss of his trees.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 20 2021 3:19 utc | 161

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 19 2021 23:05 utc | 150
Posted by: james | Jun 20 2021 2:19 utc | 156
Posted by: juliania | Jun 20 2021 UTC 2:28
Turkey has it own environmental issue on the Sea of Marmara: Sea Mucilage
https://bianet.org/english/environment/245349-pictures-reveal-mucilage-density-in-the-sea-of-marmara
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/turkish-researchers-view-sea-of-marmara-mucilage-from-space/2270723
I have noticed no one swimming in the sea around my hometown.However, the government is attempting to clean up – the surface at least.
It has been attributed to climate change, but I suspect it also has a lot to do with farm runoff, various industrial effluents, and the waste from 25 million humans living around the sea. It has also been suggested that about 70% of those nutrients come from the Black Sea via the Danube and Dnieper.

Posted by: Bluedotterel | Jun 20 2021 7:05 utc | 163

Bluedotterel #162 and 163
That looks like way too much nutrient coming out of human sewage treatment plants. A similar contamination from excess sea algae bloom was beginning in the bays surrounding me and the local governments were driven to improve the sewage treatment process to the extent that almost all nutrients were removed before the water was returned to the sea. That put an immediate stop to the problem. It becomes a nightmare issue where human waste is inadequately treated and then dumped into rivers and seas. You get massive algae blooms that rob all the dissolved oxygen from the water causing massive fish kills and the anaerobic bacteria that then flourish are harmful to all. The nutrients can be used in agriculture after extraction. Yes it is a costly process but we made it so and must pay the price.
The Australian Aboriginal people had a highly developed science for fire management and building land fertility to grow their grains and tubers. They did well for tens of thousands of years and managed the native animals and fish in abundance. They were soil builders not nutrient takers. They would never deposit their waste in a water course.
Not far away are the oldest human constructions on this planet where the stone built water traps still exist for fish management.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 20 2021 8:13 utc | 165

Hey, juliania!
When do you suppose the folks around here will learn to spell your name?
Just wondering…

Posted by: john | Jun 20 2021 11:39 utc | 167

OH – I googled Pinewoods and I live about an hour from there, it would appear we live in the same general area.
I see what you see, but it appears almost no one around me sees it. Sadly, I don’t think there is much to be done about it. Things have been set in motion that are going to take generations to play out and no one has even begun to do anything to offset them, in fact they are adding more energy to the system, which means it will take even longer to play itself out. The earth will regenerate, but not until it gets rid of this virus called humanity.
We have poisoned the soil all over WI to the point that the ecosystem is crashing at an increasing rate. It started a while ago, but is finally gaining enough momentum so as to be observable to those that look.
Because WI grows so much food people often make the mistake of thinking that we have great soil. We have crap soil, almost all clay or sand, which means all that food we produce is entirely dependent on immense amounts of chemicals. We do have a shit ton of water. All those chemicals have killed off most of the insects.
When I was a kid and played in the fields near my house there was an abundance of butterflies, grasshoppers, and banana spiders (not their actual name, but that is what we called them, bright yellow and black). Lightning bugs, dragon flies and worms. All of these are a rarity now. So, rare that when I see one of these I take note and remember how abundant they were in my youth (40 years ago).
This applies to all those things that feed on insects as well – frogs, snakes, birds. Next on the list will be squirrels, chipmunks, rabbits.
What about the heat and lack of rain recently? This type of heat in late May and early June is not normal, nor is being nearly 9″ below normal rainfall levels (now about 7″ thanks to a massive storm Friday evening).
I have been aware of the changes taking place for at least 20 years, and realized pretty early on that we were beyond mitigation even if their was the will to do that. I always comforted myself with the fact that I don’t have any children and the worst of it would come near the end of my life and after, but it appears that it is happening much faster than we initially thought it would, and I am not getting off that easily.
Individual efforts like Julianna mentioned are not going to cut it, and when the SHTF, others are just going to come and take it from you, and probably destroy it in the process. (Not that I am suggesting that she and other shouldn’t do those things, I do them myself. But realize that such an insignificant amount of people actually caring isn’t going to change anything).
Enjoy what is left while you can and be glad that you are old. Future generations are pretty well fucked.

Posted by: David F | Jun 20 2021 12:15 utc | 169

David F @ 169
I have been aware of the changes taking place for at least 20 years, and realized pretty early on that we were beyond mitigation even if their was the will to do that
Yeah, how ironic that chimpanzees, who share 98% of our genes, are highly endangered and will probably be extinct within 20 or 30 years, can only be saved through human intervention.

Posted by: john | Jun 20 2021 14:09 utc | 171

@ 161 juliania… i don’t have a tv and don’t watch sports, but i am happy some young person is doing well at the game of golf… i have heard golf courses are hard on the environment, but i haven’t looked at it closely… like so many things that are man made – the use of chemical fertilizers, and etc. etc. to give the image of a nice manicured lawn go with the terrain as i understand it.. i don’t believe the scots would have resorted to that when they first played the game! your comments @ 159 are indeed true… having sounded like a broken record on encouraging others to read the works of wendell berry, i will do so again for more insight into who is running the food and farm industry in the usa and canada.. and – it ain’t pretty..
@ 162 grieved.. i always admire and appreciate your commentary and presence here at moa… however, i am always taken aback at your unlimited confidence in the chinese to somehow transcend the typical foibles of humankind… i think your idealism is misplaced, but it is cute that you hold to it!! cheers
@ lurk / wg – yes, humour is far more likely..
@ john… you must have some fancy spell check, lol…

Posted by: james | Jun 20 2021 15:50 utc | 173

@ suzan… thanks for that… the link says they are based in europe… it seems the europeans are much more concerned about the quality of their food then north americans by and large… here is a link to a wikipedia page on wendell berry… i am going to quote a few lines from it.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendell_Berry
On January 4, 2009, Berry and Wes Jackson, president of The Land Institute, published an op-ed article in The New York Times titled “A 50-Year Farm Bill.”[21] In July 2009 Berry, Jackson and Fred Kirschenmann, of The Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture, gathered in Washington DC to promote this idea.[22] Berry and Jackson wrote, “We need a 50-year farm bill that addresses forthrightly the problems of soil loss and degradation, toxic pollution, fossil-fuel dependency and the destruction of rural communities.”[
this man is a leader in every sense of the word and one that is sorely needed in the usa, especially with regard to agricultural practices..

Posted by: james | Jun 20 2021 16:18 utc | 175

Posted by: james | Jun 20 2021 16:18 utc | 175
I agree with your assessment re Wendell Berry and Wes Jackson but they have no visible power in the current era of agribusiness-captured government. Their ideas and practices receive little media attention any more. They were allowed platform before the neoliberal consolidation of power but now if you ask a young person who they are and what are their ideas most would draw a corporate blank.
Wes and Wendell remain an uncomfortable stone in the shoe of finance-capital industrial agriculture in the USA. It has little to no concern for the people of the lands which they exploit and pollute. They focus on short-term gains and monopolization, which captured fiscal and political systems here facilitate often with exceptionalist ideology — we feed the world!!!
Without the media being on the side of everyday people, facilitating ideas and encouraging new experiments and associations in harmony with the natural world of which we are a part, light comes from elsewhere, to be seen and known but not without effort.

Posted by: suzan | Jun 20 2021 19:23 utc | 177

@173 james – “your unlimited confidence in the chinese to somehow transcend the typical foibles of humankind”
But this is not where my confidence is placed. I expect the Chinese to show as many human foibles as anyone else, anywhere in the human realm. My confidence is placed in their system.
It wasn’t human individuals acting in the mass willfully who despoiled this planet, it was the system of exploitation that placed a disincentive to regenerate the resources taken – call it whatever you wish, and if you want to call it capitalism and imperialism I’m okay with that.
China as we know has a system based on caring for its population and also now on creating sustainable environment. If China succeeds in its endeavors it will have a place to live that could endure and sustain its population as long as the planet itself endures. Again, call that system what you will, and if you call it socialism with Chinese characteristics I’m okay with that.
As a Buddhist, I believe I understand very well how humans work as sentient beings – this has in fact been explained minutely and fully by the Buddha, who could perceive the mechanisms directly. The Chinese are no different from the Americans except as their internal and external culture may give them slightly different habits of thought – true of any culture – but no difference in the fundamentals.
But the Chinese have a reason to be happy. Their system gives them that reason. They have a future. Their minds are on fire to populate that future with countless new treasures.
People in the US have no reason to be happy, and I personally don’t know any who are happy anymore. The US has no future, and no one dreams of filling the future with anything except perhaps salvation from the trends that seem to possess us nowadays.
A happy mind is capable of miracles. A sad mind is capable of despair.
Humans have foibles and virtues – all the countless ways to be are contained within, and possible from, humans at any time, and at any stage of their personal development. It’s the environment they live in that gives them their preponderant reasons to lean towards the miracle or the despair.
So it’s the system I place my confidence in. If we in the US could somehow have a system like China’s – or Cuba’s, say – there’s no telling what miracles of regeneration we might achieve for our lands and waters.
Instead, we shall probably have to live in dotage and wait for the Demonstration Effect from China to inspire us to rise again, as it will inspire all the world.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 21 2021 1:10 utc | 179

@ Grieved | Jun 21 2021 1:10 utc | 179 with the Buddhist take on China and human culture
I like your “A happy mind is capable of miracles. A sad mind is capable of despair.” statements but believe that despair is not a given in a sad mind and some good motivation can come from heartfelt sadness and grief.
And then my thoughts go off along the path of what I have learned about the human “mind” as part of my healing process, specifically related to The Polyvagal Theory by Stephen Porges and the factoid of our neural networks that has our cortex gets the sensory input one and one half seconds after received…..what happens during that second and a half relates to The Polyvagal Theory about how the vagus nerve “brains” process trauma/stress when we were mammals and reptiles before that…our reptilian/mammalian selves are still very active in our lives. The vagus nerve brains, along with other elements of what is called the salient network, determine if the sensory input is life threatening or threatening/stimulating other core life functions. Only after that sort of processing is the vagus “colored” stimulus sent to our cortex for further conscious processing.
Stay with me here Grieved because of my limited understanding of Buddhism, I don’t see these science facts fitting the buddhism understanding about humans.
Back to the vagus nerve and Porges’s Polyvagal Theory and how our bodies work. I have describes this before at MoA but the short version is that the social functioning of our vagus nerve upper “brain” “matures” during a infants last trimester in the womb and extends during the first year out of the womb….it effects this thing called an ogliodendricite that wraps around the neuron going to the sinoatrial side of the heart controlling the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system AND emotional control and perception issues, that in Western med are called autism, ADD, ADHD, epilepsy, OCD, (TBI, PTSD, anxiety disorder (I was diagnosed with)), etc.
To summarize, we are reptiles/mammals/humans who’s social interaction is severely influenced by our infancy development environment. The salient network seems to be mainly influenced by our vagus nerve development along with our reptile/mammal “instincts” and colors sensory input to or cortex for further processing.
Now to get back to buddhism. As you have read repeatedly here, I am now 18 months out from having ‘negative mental health symptoms” and consider myself having a happy mind and capable of miracles while at the same time quite sad about the state of human evolution which I rant about here regularly.
Please tell me how buddhism has the answer to the human conditions that I experienced and that QEEG and other neuromodulation therapies helped me heal. Does your buddhist faith change your neural networks and massage the vagus nerve emotional control parts?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 21 2021 4:54 utc | 181

@181 psychohistorian
Science is still exploring and catching up to the claims made from wisdom our human inheritance – not only from the Buddha but from countless other sources.
Science is of course studying the effect of meditation on the brain. I don’t know if it’s studying the effect of the brain on meditation. Which influences which? Which way does the flow of influence go? Is it a one-way or a two-way street?
Does the brain originate thoughts or does the brain respond to thoughts? Science doesn’t know, but those who examine thought have seen that the origin of thought cannot be found. In the same way, the mind itself cannot be found.
I acknowledge your personal experience – and in fact, I salute it and derive great uplift from it – and those who have specifically sought the nature of experienced thought and the nature of experienced mind have their own findings also. They must all be included in the study of what it means to be sentient.
The brain is very plastic, as we know. What part of our learned habits might it store for us as our new thoughts take us in our various directions? Science thus far, I believe, has not found a way to study karma – and I’m sure it will one day in the future. Yet karma is crucial to understanding thoughts as they arise.
Much still to be learned.
~~
There’s a wonderful expression that I heard: “When the pain gets small enough, we call it happiness.”
Buddhist thought would understand what this means, namely that within the ups and downs of our emotions and our states of being, we are still caught in certain conditions and illusions that bring us a kind of suffering that we barely cognize, let alone know how to change.
Why don’t we take all this time we have in front of us, friend psychohistorian, and continue discussing these things? But sadly, for now I must go, though I will go happily enough 🙂

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 21 2021 16:05 utc | 183

@ grieved… thanks for your reply and comments to psychohistorian as well here.. i commend you for the beautiful quotes you’ve shared with us –
“A happy mind is capable of miracles. A sad mind is capable of despair.”
“When the pain gets small enough, we call it happiness.”
it is interesting the concept of location and the conversation around ideas and the brain.. of course one doesn’t have to live anywhere in particular for the quotes above to apply.. in fact, i think placing faith in a particular country on the globe, attractive as it might seem, has its own set of challenges too.. far better to stay focused on a happy mind – no address needed, but the one a person lives in, no matter the location is of the upmost importance as i see it.
i hope you are correct in your interpretation of the chinese system and what it is, and will be grieved.. it is good to stay positive and i think this would apply to everywhere no matter how appearances are in the present..
i would like to end with a few lao tzu quotes – ‘the further you go, the less you know’ and ‘those who speak don’t know and those who know don’t speak’…. thanks again for your heartfelt reply and presence here at moa grieved..

Posted by: james | Jun 21 2021 16:35 utc | 185

“Such euphemisms illustrate one major function of language, which is to keep reality at bay.”
– John Carey “Eyewitness to History” Introduction
Nice aphorisms.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 21 2021 17:05 utc | 187

@ Grieved, V, psychohistorian, James,… good discussion and many good points. Thanks.
The real battlefield is the mind.
There is no perfect socioeconomic system in our world. Every nation has its strengths and weaknesses. The countries that have been captured by the Financial Empire have lost their way and perform a function of certain BLOCK, as assigned by the Empire. Name a democracy that isn’t a suzerainty.
The Dollar Empire has become the Empire of MENDACITY. Its myths, lies, deceits, are failing and falling apart. Even the National Intelligence Council acknowledges this reality. Democracy, capitalism, free markets, independent media, freedom of speech, rule of law…, when probed further on details and characteristics, don’t hold up. In the case of China they aren’t promoting any ideology. Narrative fallacies don’t win hearts and minds. Reality is in the details and deeds. Reality trumps delusions!
In the case of China, it has a vision of restoring its position in the global order by improving lives of its people (gdp per capita) and strengthening the nation through its capabilities and capacities. This national FORCE is driving the development wave which is lifting its stature on multiple dimensions. China has developed its culture on VALUES of unity, diligence, flexibility, resilience and shared prosperity. China’s key future DEVELOPMENT THEMES are:
1. High-quality growth
2. Sci-tech progress
3. Cultural confidence
4. Responsible global player
5. National and economic security
If one can’t clearly articulate the core values and development themes of a nation, then that nation is LOST &/or they don’t have a good understanding of that nation. What are U$A’s core values and development themes? In the U$A, resources are misallocated towards misadventures and speculation. Why?
“Rome has grown so much from its humble beginnings that it is now overwhelmed by its greatness.”
– Titus Livius
When is winning losing and losing winning?

Posted by: Max | Jun 21 2021 18:57 utc | 189