Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 19, 2021

Debunking A 'Chinese Defector' Story

It is sad to see how much Col. Pat Lang's intelligence judgment has deteriorated.

Here he goes crazy over a story of an alleged Chinese high level defector who allegedly brought all kinds of materials with him:

This man, as Chinese counter-intelligence boss looked around the IC and decided that he was most likely to survive an internal leak if he defected to DIA. That means that in spite of the fact that DIA had an internal Chinese mole (recently arrested at DIA request by the FBI), the rest of the agencies are worse in the level in Chinese intelligence penetration not only of their analytic people but also of their operations staff. How do I know that? Material from the defector (Dong) would not normally be shared with analysts if it had his name in it. His identity would be held in operational channels.

Clearly, this man believes that; CIA. army intelligence, naval intelligence, USAF intelligence and all the rest are heavily penetrated. pl.

Lang took the defector story from Zerohedge.com which took it from Redstate.com where managing editor Jennifer Van Laar made it up by mixing her fantasies, a Freebacon report about Chinese students returning to the U.S. and a rumor about a defection reported by Spytalk:

Chinese-language anti-communist media and Twitter are abuzz this week with rumors that a vice minister of State Security, Dong Jingwei (董经纬) defected in mid-February, flying from Hong Kong to the United States with his daughter, Dong Yang.

Dong is, or was, a longtime official in China’s Ministry of State Security (MSS), also known as the Guoanbu. His publicly available background indicates that he was responsible for the Ministry’s counterintelligence efforts in China, i.e., spy-catching, since being promoted to vice minister in April 2018. If the stories are true, Dong would be the highest-level defector in the history of the People’s Republic of China.

The rumor is false.

How do I know?

I copied "vice minister of State Security, Dong Jingwei" into Google Translate with the output language set to Chinese (simplified). That results in this string: "国家安全部副部长董经纬". The big Chinese search engine is Baidu.com. After pasting the string into Baidu it delivered these results:


bigger

The first search result is from September 2020 but the second on is from yesterday. As is the third.

The second result goes to a Baidu news report. I copied the story from there and back into Google Translate - this time from Chinese to English. Here is the outcome:

Ministry of National Security: It is necessary to catch spies as well as "traitors" and "behind the scenes."

China Changan Net
Release time: 06-1815:29 China Changan Net

On the morning of June 18, 2021, Vice Minister Dong Jingwei of the Ministry of National Security presided over a symposium to study and implement the "Regulations on Anti-espionage Security Work" that came into effect on April 26 this year, and make arrangements for anti-rape and anti-espionage work.

The symposium pointed out that the Party Central Committee attaches great importance to national security work and has made a series of important decisions and arrangements for counter-espionage work. As the competent authority for counter-espionage work, the Ministry of National Security has formulated and promulgated regulations that are a realistic need to prevent, stop, and crack down on illegal and criminal activities that endanger national security in accordance with the law, which are conducive to further consolidating the responsibility of counter-espionage security prevention and better organizing and mobilizing all social forces. Fight the "People's War" against espionage. ...

The expression "anti-rape" seems to be a machine translation artifact and probably means "anti-infiltration".

The third Baidu result has the same report from a different news outlet though the video attached to it is not of Dong Jingwei. A Chinese government site also carries the same story.

So the guy who allegedly defected to the Defense Intelligence Agency apparently just talked about counterespionage at a symposium in presumably Beijing.

Another search produces a picture of Dong Jingwei. The line below it translates to:

On December 14, 2020, the China-Belarus Intergovernmental Cooperation Committee met in Beijing. Dong Jingwei (middle), the Vice Minister of the Ministry of National Security and the Chinese Chairman of the Security Cooperation Sub-Committee, also participated in the meeting. The Minister and the Chinese Chairman of the Cultural Cooperation Sub-Committee Zhang Xu sat together. (Image source: Internet)

bigger

The Dong Jingwei and his public activities are regular news. Still some will claim that the Chinese report about the symposium is false and was only launched to divert from the defection which therefore must be real.

Well, consider all the stuff the defector, according to Redstate 'sources', allegedly brought with him:

In addition, Dong has provided DIA with the following information:

  • Early pathogenic studies of the virus we now know as SARS-CoV-2
  • Models of predicted COVID-19 spread and damage to the US and the world
  • Financial records detailing which exact organizations and governments funded the research on SARS-CoV-2 and other biological warfare research
  • Names of US citizens who provide intel to China
  • Names of Chinese spies working in the US or attending US universities
  • Financial records showing US businessmen and public officials who’ve received money from the Chinese government
  • Details of meetings US government officials had (perhaps unwittingly) with Chinese spies and members of Russia’s SVR
  • How the Chinese government gained access to a CIA communications system, leading to the death of dozens of Chinese people who were working with the CIA

Dong also has provided DIA with copies of the contents of the hard drive on Hunter Biden’s laptop, showing the information the Chinese government has about Hunter’s pornography problem and about his (and Joe’s) business dealings with Chinese entities.

That sounds as much like a wet dream for Republicans as the pee-tape Steele Dossier was a wet dream for Democrats.

How would a Chinese counter-espionage guy, who's job it is to catch U.S. spies in China, have access to all those claimed materials, especially to the names of Chinese spies in the U.S.? What would be his need to know those? Spying and counter spying are always compartmentalized from each other. They don't know each others secrets.

How could Pat Lang fall for this nonsense?

Posted by b on June 19, 2021 at 11:38 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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What we're witnessing is a slow motion picture of the demise of an empire. No worries.

Posted by: Steve | Jun 19 2021 11:53 utc | 1

Anything will do at this point, these boomers are desperate for any news at all to sink China.

Posted by: Smith | Jun 19 2021 11:59 utc | 2

Rape in English as well as meaning sexual assault can also mean to kidnap, to abduct or to carry off. Thus the famous work of art "The Rape of the Sabine Women" by multiple artists showed the Sabine women being kidnapped rather than sexually assaulted.
From memory, recently, a machine translation (I guess) of a tweet by a Chinese diplomat mentioned rape by Wall Street/American financial institutions and the reply to the tweet suggested that the Chinese diplomat was claiming that Wall Street/American financial institutions had sexual assaulted some country when it actual meant that Wall Street/American financial institutions had carried of that countries money or pillaged it. BTW, it wouldn't surprise me to see Wall Street/American financial institutions had benefitted from human trafficking involving the sex industry.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jun 19 2021 12:12 utc | 3

I just saw a video of Tucker Carlson, flagging some highly relevant, true info on the dangers of the so-called coid vaxxes''. But he did a Pat Lang at the end, running a clip of a Chinese woman screeching the Chinese military launched Covid to kill Americans; pure nonsense, Republican fear porn, exactly tailored to Sinophobic right-wing Americans (covid was first launched in the USA in early 2019, made by Fauci with US taxpayers' money. Chinese collusion was minimal, late, and paid by Fauci]

Posted by: Ron Chandler | Jun 19 2021 12:13 utc | 4

The thing that immediately jumped out at me when I read the zerohedge story was the idea that a Chinese counter-intelligence official had access to the names of Chinese spies in the USA.

Say Whaaaaaaaat?

Does the Director of the FBI have access to the names of all CIA assets inside China?

I.Think.Not.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 19 2021 12:22 utc | 5

Next time use DeepL.com for your translations. Incomparably better than GoogleTranslate.

Posted by: Jan Sammer | Jun 19 2021 12:34 utc | 6

I knew immediately something was amiss when I read the reports on different sites and it used the word "defector".

That is old Cold War language that reeks of McCarthyism.

Then in a report was this quote:

"Again, according to sources, Dong told DIA debriefers that at least a third of Chinese students attending US universities are PLA assets or part of the Thousand Talents Plan and that many of the students are here under pseudonyms. One reason for using pseudonyms is that many of these students are the children of high-ranking military and party leaders."

First, that seems unlikely to me. One third of Chinese students being spies sounds absurdly high, yet right inline with accusations thrown about on far-right conspiracy websites.

Second, so many spies being children of high ranking CCP leaders also sounds unlikely. Why put their own children at risk overseas?

I attended a world class engineering school with many Chinese students. They are a force to be reckoned with academically. They were all, as a rule, quiet introverts. They always studied together and made straight A's.

They were there to learn and that is all they did. They never seemed to assimilate or ingratiate themselves with authorities or do anything other than study. They were fantastic students and would certainly make outstanding professors at home. Why waste all that time and effort becoming spies when they could legitimately serve China better as engineers and scientists?

Maybe a few were CCP intelligence, but one third of them? Doubtful.

In short, only consorting with each other, never being overly friendly and never asking questions, I think they would have made terrible spies.

Posted by: Mar man | Jun 19 2021 13:20 utc | 7

Pat Lang is a rabid right wing loon lately taken to spreading UFO fairy tales. He's pathetic.

Posted by: Knee and Earth all | Jun 19 2021 13:25 utc | 8

I do not think he has "deteriorated" or has "gone crazy".
"Manipulating," I think would be a better word.

Remember how he manipulated Max Blumenthal against Libya?
(He provided info to the journalist which was sent to Hilary Clinton).

And I think the colonel has been aginst China for a while now (even before covid).

China is a direct economic threat to the USA because China has the same industries as the USA and competes for the same market. Russia on the other hand is not that much of an economic threat.
Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Iran are not that of threats either.

So I think he and others had made a conscious decision to help to "contain" China before it gets any worse.

So this is "2003 case for Iraq war" done again.


Posted by: kha | Jun 19 2021 13:43 utc | 9

A month or so ago Pat mentioned that he and Mrs L received Moderna jabs which made them feel out of sorts for awhile. A couple of weeks ago Pat apparently suffered some kind of 'episode.' I don't know the details but there was a thread in which Turcopoles expressed relief that he's recovering. I got the impression from a cryptic response from Pat in that thread that his recovery isn't complete. I'm not aware of Pat admitting he was ever mistaken.

The fascinating thing about Turcopolier is that it leaves me with the impression that it's a sort of Spook Club and the regular contributors all know each other. And some of the commentators appear to know one or more of the Spook Club members. I like his swashbuckling writing style and it doesn't bother me if he occasionally writes tosh. It sort of goes with the territory if you're a swashbuckler.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 19 2021 14:06 utc | 10

Lots of supposition all the way around. But what a story! So inscrutable! So many wet dreams! I certainly hope when I pick-up at the local Chinese, and they give such a generous portion of WonTon they are grooming me for recruitment into the "communist" way of life. Because frankly, for years I tried to get on Putin's payroll, dutifully offering the best counter-narrative to Empire I could muster, but nada, zilch.

Qualifications? I love Chinese Food, and admire the accomplishment of the Great Wall. Another wet dream of so many. And Bruce Lee. What's not to love? Call me maybe.

Posted by: gottlieb | Jun 19 2021 14:56 utc | 11

I think the success of China's space station blastoff made another fake story attacking China necessary to kill the buzz.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 19 2021 15:12 utc | 12

This is great investigative journalism from b.

But I don't think its correct to put this down as partisan politics.

Biden has joined the anti-China effort also.

And Biden's foreign policy is (mostly) Trump's foreign policy with a little spit-and-polish and pearl clutching added for effect.

Isn't both the hesitancy and the nurturing of the 'lab leak' theory, as well as the partisan positioning, likely to be a Deep State psyop?

In fact, isn't 'woke' vs Trumptards just kayfabe?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 19 2021 15:13 utc | 13

The Chinese government have instituted a totalitarian fascist state, and I have no idea why b wastes so much effort (and credibility) defending them.

Whether this Dong is the same Dong who allegedly defected remains to be seen. But given how much Trump hated China, and how many of the Deep State agencies hated Trump, the idea that China has bought off a number of the higher-ups of those agencies is not completely outlandish, if unproven.

Posted by: Big J | Jun 19 2021 15:29 utc | 14

Dear Mr Smith @2

your'e a cog in the wheel
grease the wheel
grease the wheel
grinding cogs like dogs
under heel
under heal

Im free he said
Im no slave
he held the proof
in the payment
of his wage
and the right to work
to a ripe old age
for a roof overhead
free to work til yer dead
you got your watch
and thanks were said
its fun for a while
but way too soon
yer layin here
in gods waiting room
now off you go
but dont live too long
boomers are the reason
everything went wrong
yer beggaring the nation
with the cost of your meds
you've become an aberration
you'd be better off dead
yer just sucking up money
laying there in that bed
next cog in the wheel
you had better get a move
it's time to step up
and get into that groove
are you ready
for your life of servitude?
the gristmill grinds with exactitude
and the bones of the eaters
are its favourite food

your'e a cog in the wheel
grease the wheel
grease the wheel
grinding cogs like dogs
under heel
under heal

ageism is real
please stop the boomer bullshit

Posted by: ld | Jun 19 2021 15:33 utc | 15

This is one more for the "I don't know how to read Chinese, therefore China is a totalitarian State with a history of complete secrecy and brutal censorship" Western collection.

China (PRC) is one of the most transparent and open-minded States that have ever existed. I know what the CPC will do for the next five, ten, twenty and even fifty years in advance because they publish everything. I also know the reason why they want to do everything, because they open the debate in their due channels (many of which are translated to English directly from the source).

The PRC is transparent because their predecessor - the RKP (B) (Bolsheviks) - were also very transparent. The history of the RSFSR/USSR from 1917-1929 is one of the most well-documented periods we have because the Bolsheviks were very honest and very open about their policy. We could fill an entire book just telling three months of Soviet History. It was just after the consolidation of Stalin to power and the Cold War that documentation ceased to reach the West.

Communist parties are very transparent because they need to be. Their power, by definition, rests on the supremacy of the proletariat or the alliance between the proletariat and the peasantry, therefore every policy - no matter if it was decided from the top, by the Politburo - must be put to the discussion in some kind of conference and put to ratification by some kind of congress (even if just to be approved by acclamation). Both processes presuppose the publication of the policy in at least one official communication vehicle, which then reaches the historian.

China's history - old and contemporary - and Chinese daily politics are mysterious to the West simply because Westerners don't know how to read and write in Chinese (and the few ones who do are paid to ignore and distort them). This is sold by the Western MSM as evidence China is totalitarian, but the reality is the polar opposite: China is the democratic State, the West is the totalitarian State. In History we call this evidence/archaeology bias (e.g. Roman History that survived to us essentially portrays the point of view of the Senate).

Posted by: vk | Jun 19 2021 15:34 utc | 16

Pat Lang's blog degenerated into crazy lunacy when Larry Johnson and J were given free reign.

During the height of the Syrian crisis, it had many good contributions, by FB Ali and Patrick Barzhad, for example.

The comments were also good at that point.

But at some point in the Trump presidency the blog turned to shit. MY explanation is that the idiocy of Russiagate made Lang lose any independent thought about Trump, who was embraced uncritically. Lang couldn't even criticize Trump for his catastrophic covid failure. The political instrumentalization of BLM by the Dems and MSM also made those old white guys lose their minds and rally behind fascist currents. They turned to right wing swamp conspiracy sites for all their stuff on the election and now on China. It's embarrassing, but typical for the US right.

Pat Lang also can't distinguish between the Democrats and the Left. It's another example of the intellectual demise of the US and of the rank stupidity of American conservatism, which thinks of any state action as incipient Bolshevism. Pure lunacy.

What a wasted talent.

My guess is that Lang could never really come to terms with the left critique of US imperialism because of his Catholicism and his role in the slaughter of Vietnam.

Good riddance to that blog. It's done.

Posted by: Prof | Jun 19 2021 15:56 utc | 17

zerohedge is increasingly dealing in hoaxes and stuff. but b's little google translation exercise also proves nothing, to be honest. and by the way, has Lukashenko finally released the first email b was talking about? I mean for real, not just a 'screenshot'. Has Protonmail confirmed this first email, now that it is 'in the public domain'?

Posted by: S1S2 | Jun 19 2021 16:06 utc | 18

Prof @17: "Pat Lang also can't distinguish between the Democrats and the Left."

In fairness, few of those who consider themselves "left" in America can tell the difference either.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 19 2021 16:29 utc | 19

"but b's little google translation exercise also proves nothing"

Sure. Clearly the Chinese are trying to deceive you, and they were clever enough to do it by hiding the deception in Chinese-language articles that you would have never known about without the work done by our host.

Wait! That means our host is in on the effort to deceive you about this "defection"! OMG!!! Commie deceivers everywhere!

Be sure to check your closet and under your bed before trying to catch some Zs tonight!

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 19 2021 16:34 utc | 20

thanks b... i stopped going to pat langs site a few months ago... i gave up on him like he gave up on me..

@11 gottlieb... lol.. i'm with ya!

Posted by: james | Jun 19 2021 16:35 utc | 21

vk @16: "This is one more for the "I don't know how to read Chinese, therefore China is a totalitarian State with a history of complete secrecy and brutal censorship" Western collection."

I laughed hard at that because it is so true.

Remember early in the pandemic last year all of the news reports based upon satellite imagery of Wuhan? I was stunned by the ignorance, incompetence, and provincialism that displayed. These "journalists" need satellite imagery to guess what is going on in a major first-tier city of 11 million people? Can't these impostor syndrome victim media people just pick up a phone and call someone there? You'd think from the way these "journalists" handled the stories that Wuhan was a city on Mars, or secluded in the heart of the Dark Continent or something similarly silly. Could anyone imagine using satellite imagery to concoct sensationalist speculative stories about happenings in London or Paris? It is pure lunacy.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 19 2021 16:52 utc | 22

Read Pat's blog for up to few years back, until when he started to push obviously illogical anti Chinese propaganda. Intelligent or not, Pat (or who ever is behind that cover) is pushing agenda and selectively being objective.

Later I heard Pat is actually either died and blog was taken over by spooks, or it was intelligence operation from day 1.

What ever was it, it is propaganda mill now.

Posted by: Abe | Jun 19 2021 17:06 utc | 23

I've been reading Lang for almost 20 years now. I found his condemnation of the invasion of Iraq more cogent than the standard leftish explanations; he even promoted one of my comments to a Post. But his site (nee "Sic Semper Tyrannis", now "Turcopolier") is now overrun with Trumpist nonsense (as described by Prof, #17 above). I'm very skeptical of the modern center-left tendency to blame everything on Racism, but in this case, I do think it explains Lang's descent into Trumpism. If I had to make up a rumor, I'd guess he has a granddaughter who fell in love with a black guy (what better way to freak out an old Confederate?).

Posted by: elkern | Jun 19 2021 17:18 utc | 24

kha #9 wrote:
"Remember how he manipulated Max Blumenthal against Libya?
(He provided info to the journalist which was sent to Hilary Clinton)."

Two significant errors here. It was Sydney, not Max, Blumenthal. Second he emailed the information directly to Hilary after it showed up in a trove of Hillary's leaked emails.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 19 2021 17:38 utc | 25

The colonel is limited by his continuing basic loyalty to what even he has exposed as a corrupt state. While a limited amount of his China critique may be correct the bulk of it is bullshit caused by the company he keeps and a less than complete knowledge of China. China has a much cleaner record than yankee land and its handmaidens, and I also expect the future belongs to China because it is less corrupt, and it is huge with people more competent than the "west", particularly as a result of continuing gains by politically correct racism against its own people and history. Like anybody else, you have to look carefully at Col. Lang's material and recognize where he is correct and many areas where he is demonstrably wrong.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Jun 19 2021 18:08 utc | 26

Kha, small quibble: It was Sidney Blumenthal that passed "intel" on Libya to Clinton, not Max.

Posted by: steve abbott | Jun 19 2021 18:12 utc | 27

Re: Pat Lang
I have learned a lot from his blog(s), especially about weaponry.
I share the view that he has deteriorated.

1. He is an alcoholic, and subject to huge mood swings.
2. He is a catholic who thinks he is exempt from christian views that it is a sin to kill. This view is also held by mafia members.
3. His comprehension of economics is mediocre and worse. He equates socialism with communism. A genuine throwback to McCarthyism.
4. His comprehension of legal issues is very limited, and he greatly resents any difference of opinion.
4. Contrary to another comment above, I do not think he has a daughter who loves a black man. But he does have a son who is/was addicted to oxycodone, and this fact casts a long shadow.
5. He is without doubt, utterly confident. Some view this as an asset, but I do not share this view.

I wish him well, but I no longer contribute to his blog. He banned me long ago. As did b from this blog. As did Craig Murray.


Posted by: downtownhaiku | Jun 19 2021 18:14 utc | 28

Posted by: elkern | Jun 19 2021 17:18 utc | 24

>>But his site (nee "Sic Semper Tyrannis", now "Turcopolier") is now overrun with Trumpist nonsense

Posted by: Prof | Jun 19 2021 15:56 utc | 17

>>But at some point in the Trump presidency the blog turned to shit.

Posted by: Abe | Jun 19 2021 17:06 utc | 23

>>Read Pat's blog for up to few years back, until when he started to push obviously illogical anti Chinese propaganda

Many on the right were isolationist in 2015 - 2016.

Personally i blame Trump for corrupting the initial isolationist sentiment that elected him, into imperialism.

His "i have the biggest dick" complexes, "USA is number 1" obsession, made him go crazy at the sight of the rising multipolarity in the world, and he started to try to save the Empire that will eat him later, corrupting many previously isolationist voices (see Zerohedge or Brexiters or Col. Lang) in the process.

I still remember how early (before Trump) Brexiters were talking about a golden age in relations with China, or how rank and file republicans wanted to concentrate on internal US issues.

And even Trump's isolationist early talk.

But then that changed into ugly imperialism, and those who followed Trump followed him into the abyss.

Posted by: Passer by | Jun 19 2021 18:23 utc | 29

gottlieb @11,

I think your problem with getting on Putin’s payroll was because you used terms like “nada” and “zilch”.
You should have used “nichevo”.

Posted by: NotBib | Jun 19 2021 18:34 utc | 30

The fact that Dong Jingwei presided over an anti-esponiage symposium, thus debunking the rumour that he had defected to the US, were widely reported on 19 June in Hong Kong and Taiwan by media of various political shades. It is remarkable that b picked up the story without understanding Chinese.

He translated a news article from Chinese into English using Google Translate. FYI Baidu.com has a counterpart of Google Translate: fanyi.baidu.com. It didn't make the same mistake as Google Translate regarding "anti-rape", which b thinks means "anti-infiltration". He is almost right. Almost, because the people who were targeted were either infiltrators or traitors. I think it is enough to end the sentence in question like this: "... and make arrangements for anti-espionage work."

Posted by: TN | Jun 19 2021 18:36 utc | 31

Lang recently announced his return to the blog after a long medical hiatus which involved a Cerebral Hemorrhage or "brain bleed" as he described it. These events are seldom without long tern consequences and can involve cognitive problems where before there were none. The Colonel is quite a guy, but he's 80 now I believe and most people lose a lot of their edge by then even without a brain bleed.

Posted by: erik | Jun 19 2021 18:39 utc | 32

Passer by@29 "Personally i blame Trump for corrupting the initial isolationist sentiment that elected him, into imperialism."

Isolationist sentiment didn't elect Trump, who lost the election. Trump merely fluked out in an Electoral College majority so that he took office despite losing. The inability to get such a simple fact right powerfully earns no confidence in your political analysis.

Rewriting elementary facts by constant repetition in an echo chamber is a common tactic for ideologues fighting political analysis.

In addition to the blatant willingness of intelligence officers and their assets to lie, to their political masters as well as they public, there are the fantasies of their fans. Fans of intelligence are so out of touch with reality they think The Americans was a grounded drama, that should have been taken seriously! Life UFOlogy, spy fantasies give "conspiracy" a bad name, even though we know for a fact there have been real conspiracies.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 19 2021 19:02 utc | 33

@33 steven johnson quotes

"Trump merely fluked out in an Electoral College majority so that he took office despite losing. "

"Rewriting elementary facts by constant repetition in an echo chamber is a common tactic for ideologues fighting political analysis."

isn't that what you're doing steven? trump won the 2016 election, while you'd like to rewrite elementary facts of how the usa system works to win the presidency..

Posted by: james | Jun 19 2021 19:32 utc | 34

Debunked ©

@ S1S2 | Jun 19 2021 16:06 utc | 18

b's [...] proves nothing, to be honest. and by the way, has Lukashenko finally released the first email b was talking about? I mean for real, not just a 'screenshot'. Has Protonmail confirmed this first email, now that it is 'in the public domain'?

touché...?

to be honest, has Ryanair finally released in the public domain, the Cockpit Voice Record(er) I was talking about? I mean for real, not just a... 'ouuups deleted' .
Has the pilot confirmed this first declaration that he diverted after consulting Ryanair ?
https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1416604/lithuanian-police-question-pilot-who-diverted-to-minsk-after-consulting-ryanair

COULÉ !

Posted by: Rêver | Jun 19 2021 19:39 utc | 35

Trump only lost the popular vote in the first election by 3 million votes, although he gained the presidency.

In the second election, the total was 7-9 million, and although we have a flawed election process, he actually didn't win the presidency.
Aside from Bush in 2004, no repug has achieved a popular vote victory for quite a while.

We need to alter this flawed and corrupt system.
The parliamentary system is much better.

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jun 19 2021 19:43 utc | 36

"How would a Chinese counter-espionage guy, who's job it is to catch U.S. spies in China, have access to all those claimed materials, especially to the names of Chinese spies in the U.S.? What would be his need to know those? Spying and counter spying are always compartmentalized from each other. They don't know each others secrets."

Bernhard's worship of Authoritarians and the perfection in all they do often leads him astray.

Posted by: seedeevee | Jun 19 2021 20:17 utc | 37

Well done b.

Yes one of the Chinese words used for Chinese traitors (汉奸) is indeed very similar to rape (强奸). Goes to show we're still quite a way off hands-off machine translation....

On the topic of debunking utter bs:
Brother of Xinjiang "witness" debunks torture claims

Dangle a green card in front of some moron and they'll tell you anything you want to hear. We've seen that with Iraq, Iran and countless other "defectors".
Telling tall tales.....

There're not going to be any real changes until the USD blows up and with it the American dream.

But until that day, things are only going to get worse...

Posted by: A.L. | Jun 19 2021 20:30 utc | 38

@37 seedeevee , 14 Big J

Strange kind of morons you are. Beneath that none of you speaks much less reads the language, I bet you never were in China. I felt less harrassed by the government there, and orders less scared of the police in your "democratic states". The Chinese police don't shoot dead over 1000 compatriots every year, in fact, deadly incidents inflicting police are in the low double digits per year, with their 1.4b pppl.

And during the pandemic, ppl were quarantined for weeks, no more. The authoritharian "health" regime here goes into the second year, with doctor's clinics searched, even a judge's house and office because he ruled against the government. Democrazy, my ass.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 19 2021 20:31 utc | 39

It'd be very funny if Beijing knows what is going on within the US right-wing alternative media and is planning to release information on the whereabouts of Dong Jingwei and his daughter. Perhaps at this very moment an interview with Dong is in the works. This would surely mean a pie in the face for Pat Lang, Jennifer Van Laar,Tyler Durden and others pushing their Sinophobic fantasies and projections.

At the very least Beijing should release a photo of Dong at a meeting or a festival that shows he is still in China and has never defected.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 19 2021 20:45 utc | 40

I've been banned from Lang's blog many times. Once for posting that the Ed Gillespie, the 2017 GOP candidate for VA governor from New Jersey was a carpetbagger. Another time for pointing out Trump's business losses. And several other times for correcting him on some minor point. But I keep going back. He is a smart cookie on military history and on the middle east. And he is, or I should say was, a smart guy regarding the US intel community. And also extremely knowledgeable on the army, but he seems to know little about the other services and the capability of their weapon systems. I suspect he jumped on Trump's bandwagon because of his own dislike of Junior Bush and Cheney adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq. Good on him for that at least, but he should have backed someone more competent than Trump.

Regarding Dong Jingwei - He did serve a year in 2017 as head of MSS Bureau Number 3, before he became the MSS Counter-Intel Vice Minister. Bureau Number 3 gathers political, economic, and scientific intelligence from overseas. So he would have known about Chinese spies working in the US. But his info would be three years old, except probably at a bare bones level and not knowing current details or names.

Posted by: Mike A. | Jun 19 2021 20:52 utc | 41

I suspect that if Trump's attempt to make a deal with Xi back in 2018 had prospered then Lang would be telling us all how great the Chinese are.

Posted by: Mike A. | Jun 19 2021 21:00 utc | 42

Since the 2020 election irregularities surfaced in this thread, here's the latest poop from Georgia:

"Georgia Secretary of State Finally Admits 2020 Election Foul Play in Atlanta:

"Five batches in a row of absentee ballots from Georgia's most-populous Fulton County suspiciously showed the same tally of 392 votes for Biden, 96 Trump, and 3 for Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgensen — which state officials have admitted is a statistical impossibility."

And there's more at the linked article. It must be recalled that Georgia is one of the more corrupt states within the uber-corrupt Outlaw US Empire, so it's possible a recount might change the outcome there but not enough to change it overall. And election corruption will continue until all elections consist of hand marked ballots counted by humans, not machines, and elections held over a three day period, Friday through Sunday, with ZERO results announced until ALL ballots are counted. That eliminates any interference by BigLie Media.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 19 2021 21:46 utc | 43

I had the same impression as you, B. This is the same nonsense, just as delusional and impossible, as the Russiagate / Steelde dossier was for Trump. In both cases, it's people unable to understand why their Chosen One managed to lose the election.
The Dong bogus affair makes no sense because the "China made Covid on purpose as a biological weapon against the US" is just ridiculous on its face: had the Chinese be crazy enough to launch a pandemic on their own country first (for plausible deniability reasons), then there's no fucking way they would've done it in Wuhan; having the pandemic starting in the city the virus had been designed is supremely idiotic if you want plausible deniability that you definitely didn't engineer it - people were going to make a link, imagined or real. If China really wanted to launch a self-engineered virus from China, they would've picked Chongqing, Chengdu or some other major city that would be far closer to the bat reservoir of coronavirus, a major city without a biolab that would raise suspicions.
WHat's also funny is the allged list of Wuhan scientists who got "covid" back in 2019: if they became ill with covid, then it's definitely proof the leak was accidental and not deliberate, not some kind of bio-economic warfare but just shitty management of lab security. Though even then odds would still greatly favour an accidental release of a naturally-evolved virus, and not a human-designed one. In fact, iff these few scientists genuinely got our SARS-2 back in late 2019, odds would be that some guy working in bat caves to find new viruses accidentally got infected with a version that could hit humans, and then spread it to his lab buddies back in Wuhan. Though at the end of the day, odds are even higher that some random Chinese dude caught it near Yunnan and a couple of infected people later, it found its way in Wuhan...

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jun 19 2021 21:53 utc | 44

@Clueless Joe | Jun 19 2021 21:53 utc | 44

I hear ya, but logic and reason is not what this is about.

This wishlist is just a forward staging of their fake news ammo chest. The contents will be metered out in due course to bury and trump any bad news domestically like record inflation or good news from China like the recent space launch.

If this defection was true, which it is not by the looks of things, do you think the largest intelligence coup of the century will not be hushed away and used for leverage and counter intelligence purposes? D notices have been issued on much, much less.

Its all just diversionary BS and consensus manufacturing by a bunch of delusional wannabe hacks having a circle jerk over their collective wet dream of a resurgent US.

Posted by: A.L. | Jun 19 2021 22:18 utc | 45

Response to B's article Posted by: Steve @ 1 What we're witnessing is a slow motion picture of the demise of an empire.

<== No, misleading propaganda often surfaced in runups to WWI, WWII, Korean War, Viet Nam war, Iraq invasion, etc. .. the only defense is discovery and exposure. It does not matter if the product was due to (a machine-translation-error or error caused by a journalistic negligence or even if was deceptive engineered fraud); what matters is that such propaganda, left unchallenged, has the potential to establish misleading audience opinions which can be used to turn a domestic nation state governed population against the population governed by a foreign other nation state.

It does not matter if the propaganda was produced by machine mistake or engineered intention, its possible impact is likely the same? B's Article reflects a growing concern that artificial intelligence maybe the producing source for much misleading propaganda? Some kind of penalty should apply machines produced errors in products that reach the public?
implied warranty often apply to machine produced products?.. fitness for a particular purpose comes to mind.

Good work B.

vk @16 "This is one more for the "I don't know how to read Chinese, therefore China is a totalitarian State with a history of complete secrecy and brutal censorship" Western collection." <=yes, yes, yes.. but how to learn Chinese is the problem?


by Aquadraht @ 39 "I felt less harassed by the government there, and orders less scared of the police in your "democratic states"." <= if in China, the government acts in accord to independent government decisions, while in The USA, the government acts in accord to the will and wishes of the oligarchs and their corporate knee-breakers, the difference has meaning?


I still say humanity needs a separate human rights government, with the power to force integrity into the systems and products and propaganda that govern the masses.

Posted by: snake | Jun 19 2021 22:24 utc | 46

Despite their hysterical "partisan politics," the Republicans and Democrats are mirror images of each other and share a lot more in common than they want to admit.

Democrats: Russia, Russia, Russia!

Republicans: China, China, China!

Or as Prof. Richard Wolff recently stated,

"Hillary Clinton focused blame on Russia as the external enemy. Trump chose China instead. Biden blames them both.

Blame games serve to distract us from a declining US capitalism, its problems and tensions. Blaming others is now a truly bi-partisan effort."

https://twitter.com/profwolff/status/1405709097064935431

The mighty American super-duper power and self-styled Indispensable Nation and "Leader of the Free World" is now reduced to the moral equivalent of a guy babbling to himself on a street corner carrying "The End is Nigh" sign.

America is truly a lunatic asylum.

Or as Donald Trump might say, sad.

Posted by: ak74 | Jun 19 2021 22:25 utc | 47

james@34 "isn't that what you're doing steven? trump won the 2016 election, while you'd like to rewrite elementary facts of how the usa system works to win the presidency.." Yes, the loser can take office because of the Electoral College. Never said otherwise...but that's not actually winning the election, which in common sense language means getting the most votes. That's the loser taking office. In particular, the idea that Trump played the game better is total BS. And by the way is the idea that one can attribute the lucky outcome in the Electoral College to Trump's alleged isolationist stance. Given the number of people around here that still make dark remarks about stolen elections, trying to pretend that the only possible meaning of "won" the election means the Electoral College votes and nothing, nothing, nothing else is nothing but special pleading. Again, ideology. Trump lost the vote, get over it. I do think the Electoral College is a great example of how the worst corruption is what's legal, by the way...but that wasn't part of my comment!

More importantly, Passer by is trying to "explain" the non-existent problem of why Trump ignored the majority of voters who wanted a semi-isolationist (pretended to be anti-imperialist!) policy, "corrupting" the vote. Since the majority of voters never voted for even a pretended isolationist candidate, the vote wasn't "corrupted" in the sense Passer by intended. If Trump was the isolationist/anti-imperialist candidate (a dingbat proposition, but let's pretend, okay?) and Clinton was the globalist/imperialist candidate, the voters picked globalism/corruption and a politician following the polls is not a mystery. It's *not* following the popular policy that needs explaining. This is where the corruption really does come in, in my opinion. But then, it's not the kind of inexplicable psychological event in Trump's mind of the sort Passer by seems to imagine.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 19 2021 22:42 utc | 48

China is totally like a wonderful place and all...
But,
Their government is only, just now, considering lifting restrictions on living breathing human beings, on planet Earth no less, from having children...
#WHATTHEFUCK?
Just sayin'...

Posted by: Josh | Jun 19 2021 22:43 utc | 49

Also,
Please note that the Geneva Conventions specifically define the rendering of any population to be unable to reproduce to be a crime against humanity.

Posted by: Josh | Jun 19 2021 22:52 utc | 50

@50 Josh, the Geneva Conventions only apply to armed conflicts between nation.

They do not restrict the internal social policies of individual sovereign states.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 19 2021 23:14 utc | 51

Posted by: Josh | Jun 19 2021 22:43 utc | 49

A respectable attempt...

Interesting placement of 'just now' in your statement. Did you pick that up from the epoch times summer writing workshop?

Just sayin'...

Posted by: A.L. | Jun 19 2021 23:18 utc | 52

B,
Do you really believe that we don't already know the truth?

Posted by: Josh | Jun 19 2021 23:27 utc | 53

Any takers?
Really,
We don't mind a bit.

Posted by: Josh | Jun 19 2021 23:39 utc | 54

@18 who says: 'has Lukashenko finally released the first email b was talking about?'

I've seen a lot of nonsense around the Ryanair emergency diversion in Belarus. I retired last year as a triple seven captain [flying corporate part time now]. No one on earth can force the pilot in command to do ANYTHING.

ATC is not some kind of 'traffic police' for aircraft that can 'pull you over.' Their job is to ensure safe separation among aircraft flying in the national airspace system. That's all!

The PIC can refuse ANY ATC request at any time, if he or she feels it is unsafe to his or her flight and the souls on board. As an example, when on approach to landing the controller may ask you to speed up or slow down, as required for desired spacing. I have, and so has every pilot, refused such requests where they are not viable. For instance when flying a 'heavy' with a higher landing speed than lighter aircraft in front of you, it is your DUTY to refuse a request to slow down to an UNSAFE speed, simply to please a controller, who has no clue about your aircraft's V-speeds, nor even cares.

Those are the rules. THE PIC HAS THE FINAL SAY!

Every bomb threat is taken seriously, and these do happen. It seems Ryanair gets more than its share. It has had at least three, besides the Belarus one, in the last three years. That is higher than usual, and in each case it turned out to be a false alarm. In each case [two diversions to Stansted, airport England] there was a fighter escort. That is also standard procedure since 9-11. A passenger jet of 200 tons flying at 500 mph over a populated area is a potential WMD.

The decision to make a precautionary emergency landing is solely at the captain's discretion, ALWAYS. Were those several other Ryanair emergency landings also due to Lukashenko?

It is absurd the nonsense that is batted about by know-nothings. What is that email supposed to prove? Let's think this through. According to you, Lukashenko didn't get an email until AFTER the decision to divert was already made. How then did he know to relay the bomb threat to the crew 30 minutes beforehand?

Obviously that is impossible, except if 'Lukashenko' sent the email himself. And if he had done so, why would he not have sent himself a copy at the same time as the first email? That would be exceedingly stupid, would it not?

This is simple ABC logic that any normal person can understand.

What happened in Belarus was completely normal and by the book. End of story!

PS: I have heard some speculate that Ryanair gets an inordinate number of bomb threats due to Ireland's political position that seems to sympathize with the Palestinians [or at least some of its politicians, like the outspoken EU parliament member Mick Wallace]. That is just conjecture of course, but it would not surprise anybody if somebody connected to, or sympathetic to Mossad happened to be behind those frequent Ryanair bomb threats.

Posted by: Gordog | Jun 19 2021 23:41 utc | 55

Patrick Armstrong writes this great article about the current species of propaganda being used, some of which can be read on this very thread! After presenting his evidence, Armstrong concludes:

"The whole 'X is a nazi and Y is not' routine as practised in the Western media and academia is nothing but propaganda. In fact it’s propaganda for idiots: the most ignorant clunk knows that nazi=bad and thus Hitler’s moustache can be stuck on any face and the cheap point will be got by even the dullest: Assad, Xi Jinpeng, Merkel, Bush, Obama, Qaddafi, Kim Jong Un, It’s a quick and easy way to pretend to say something – here’s the template [Many links at original]."

Just jiggle China for Nazi and the trolls become easy to spot and their attempts pathetic, although in a few cases the money's real good--just ask Rachel Maddow.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 19 2021 23:46 utc | 56

Ask around,
Ask your boyfriend,
Ask your girlfriend,
Ask your mommy,
Go ahead, we've got a minute...
Take your time...

Posted by: Josh | Jun 20 2021 0:00 utc | 57

B,

I know it wasn't deliberate, but I got a belly laugh from your link to "freebacon". It rings true, though, as that site is truly pigsh** for the masses.

Posted by: frankie p | Jun 20 2021 0:03 utc | 58

This may be nothing more than a trivial affair, but I'll tell it anyway: I have been visiting China often (up until the pandemic broke out) for a number of years on the heels of academic conferences. Following a Shanghai conference around August 20th in 2014, I took a tour of the typical Chinese tourist sites in a number of cities. During our Beijing excursion, I noticed that our guide (a youngish fellow) had engaged a few tourists about political matters. From his conversation I derived that he was sympathetic to the Tiananmen square protests. I drew closer and listened to him speak glowingly of the United States, while parroting all the propaganda one would expect he might get from something like the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). I joined the conversation which soon turned towards the recent armed conflict in the Donbas region. Sure enough, he voiced antipathy towards the Russians and had bought the propaganda that Russian troops had invaded Ukraine, hook, line and sinker. I had been following those developments on my lap-top, particularly from Pat Lang's blog since it miraculously was one of the few sites which wasn't blocked in China. I had read Lang's documented rebuttal of the propaganda concerning the Russian "invasion" of Ukraine. So... I became irritated at our Chinese guide's parroting of the "NED propaganda" about Russia so I countered him: I said that Russia had not invaded Ukraine, which of course intrigued him. Incredulous, he asked me where I got my information. You can imagine his surprise when I said I got it from a United States colonel, who held high-level posts in military US intelligence. He asked to see the source and I gave him Lang's URL. Now this is where it gets interesting: At that time, Lang had added a neat little feature (an app.) to his blog site. It was one of those world maps which registers a "dot" from the location of anyone who accesses it. Since my entry to China more than a week earlier, there were no "dots" on mainland China. Hence one could conclude that despite the availability of his blog in China, nobody was accessing it. That changed the afternoon I gave the URL to my inquisitive tour guide. Dots started appearing all over the place, and not only in Beijing. Maybe the guy passed it on to friends he had in other cities. Maybe he was being surveilled by the government (which at some level was undoubtedly following developments in the Donbas). Just an intriguing story of mine.

Posted by: Maracatu | Jun 20 2021 0:17 utc | 59

Posted by: snake | Jun 19 2021 22:24 utc | 46

No, misleading propaganda often surfaced in runups to WWI, WWII, Korean War, Viet Nam war, Iraq invasion, etc. .. the only defense is discovery and exposure.

Yes. Having just read this post, I was strolling around the yuppie tourist trap town (which is very popular with Asians) near home when I came across a bunch of posters from Falun Gong/Epoch Times asking me to sign a petition to "RejectCCP". The text of the poster said China was "bent on world domination". Project much?

When this crap is plastered on ice cream parlor walls, it seems to be a full-court press to hate China. Either some FG tourist decided to spend his vacation catapulting the propaganda or TPTB have decided to start the drip feed in out of the way places.

It will be interesting to see if the Asian tourists say anything to the owners.

Posted by: groucho | Jun 20 2021 0:25 utc | 60

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 19 2021 22:42 utc | 48

The US has a republican system of elections, where the majority vote is balanced by the power of the states. In the European Union too, sometimes a state can veto important decisions, thus showing the balancing act between the majority will and the power of local sovereignty.

As for how Trump changed, yes, i think that he changed because he was triggered by the decline of the US and the rise of other countries. You constantly talk about making America great again and yet other countries are rising, and the US is declining. This is bound to trigger a narcissist like him him.

After Trump won, Theresa May, the British Prime Minister back then, said that Britain and the US will never again invade sovereign foreign countries “in an attempt to make the world in their own image”.

The president of France too criticised Trump for isolationism in the beginning. Angela Merkel of Germany too.

So it is not simply me, but very important people and heads of state, who have access to lots of information that you and i do not have, who assesed Trump to be an isolationist in the beginning.

Posted by: Passer by | Jun 20 2021 0:30 utc | 61

We need good men and women to do the right thing,
Good men and women such as yourself and some of your superiors,
It always takes an actual someone to do an actual something,
Every time,
That is how things can change for the better,
For us all.

Posted by: Josh | Jun 20 2021 1:24 utc | 62

Dong...

"What's in a name?"

Posted by: urblintz | Jun 20 2021 1:28 utc | 63

I’m skeptical of the story but I disagree with B on this. Someone may be leaking to Red state for a reason, perhaps to put pressure on moles in CIA or as a trick against China.

Posted by: Alaric | Jun 20 2021 1:31 utc | 64

The fog of war.........I do know one thing is that the track record indicates the U.S. had been the most ingenious country for over 100 years while China has thrived by being the low cost labor pool for industry. China is now attempting to compete with the U.S. at the highest technological level, but I do not see products produced by China that compete with the tolerance levels of sophistication delivered by the U.S., Japan and Germany.

Posted by: David Robichaux | Jun 20 2021 1:56 utc | 65

Zerohedge used to be somewhat a good source of financial news linking to events. Unfortunately, the site has been steadily declining over the years. Starting around the 2016 elections is when it went full retard as the kids would say. I've long stopped visiting the site.

I only look up Lang's site for all things Middle East. I just ignore the rest of his posts.

Time will always tell on whether if there is any truth to this 'defection'. Expect more of these Cold War stories as this second Cold War rages on.

Posted by: Ian2 | Jun 20 2021 2:16 utc | 67

@ steven t johnson | Jun 19 2021 22:42 utc | 48.. okay steven... i think you'd make a good politician in how you make it sound like trump lost the 2016 election even though he was the president for 4 years! most people would call that winning - but you call it losing...okay! - i get it.. you have a huge axe to grind on the electoral college and how it is set up... find some way to see about changing it then... all the talk here isn't working at convincing anyone of much, other then the need to reform... and that is as plain as day to see for everyone posting at moa on a huge number of fronts... and i happen to agree with @61 passer by too, lol!

Posted by: james | Jun 20 2021 2:16 utc | 68

Chinese is relatively easy for machine translations, but various phrases are systematically mistranslated.

My favorite translations from Polish to English

"on guard shooter cured" ([shooter? hard to translated better] send on a patrol"

"bishops floods blood because of their expensive fury" (bishops are angry because of their expensive cars)

I did not even try with "Water floods fields, and farmers blood" because it is a pun, someone is flooded by blood = someone gets angry, "the blood boils", of course, do not expect word-by-word translation to yield English sentences. In Polish, like in Russian, word order matters little, grammatical endings matter a lot. Google Translate preserves the word order, disregards the grammar.

Chinese has fixed word order and no grammatical endings, so it is a bit easier.
------------
Concerning revelations of "Mr. Dong", the dog that did not bark is interesting. Nothing about Uighur genocide! This makes the story rather improbable. If you plan a defection, you better prepare stories that the hosts would like. And here Mr. Dong tells all tales favored by Republicans and skips a tale favored by Democrats. And he defected when Biden was already In power.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 20 2021 2:43 utc | 69

when it was sst pat lang was interesting and the comments section useful especially the archives.then it became turcopolier.com which is just a lame spiders web but with a great poetry section,especially since I enjoy poetry myself.

the dong from Hong kong story goes well with my theory that bitcoin and covid 19 were born under the same roof.they are strategic financial weapons.They both counteract each other and point to a bigger picture in the making.
nothing us underlings need to know about.
mcohen

Posted by: anon | Jun 20 2021 3:20 utc | 70

David Robichaux | Jun 20 2021 1:56 utc | 65

Fair observation but i disagree with your thesis.

You're mixing up commercial products vs research. By in large, commercially, China makes what's deemed 'good enough' for its consumers. That means dirt cheap rubbish for the west as that's all the west's commercial buyers (the middlemen) wants to import.

Domestically, quality has been increasing at an rapid pace as the growing middle class consumers demand better product, with domestic producers rushing to fill the void. Its just natural progression.

China simply cannot compete commercially against brands with history and equity and simply chose not to participate where it commercially does not make sense.

But can it produce at that level? The vaulted Apple products are made in China. Chinese Tesla cars has much better tolerance than US counterparts are just 2 amongst millions of examples. Its just a simple question of speccing and paying for the quality you want.

Your argument falls apart badly when you include hard science, military and space flight as maracatu pointed out. Where quality and tight tolerance is required, its there.

Incessant claims about quality and craftsmenship ad nauseum does not make the structural irrelevancy of west go away. Do I want a set of finely polished wrenches made by an artisan machinist from choice steel forged by blacksmiths using black art passed down by secret handshakes? Just to work on my car? Sure I do, but do I need it for the job at hand? Can I afford it? Can tradesmen and workers in a developing nation afford it?

If you like your tight tolerance stuff i suggest you pony up for it lest they go out of business, as i do when i can. Stop complaining about the Chinese, just like others did about taiwan, korea and Japan before it. And after China the same will be said of the Vietnamese, Indians and Africans. This movie is getting old, get over it.

Posted by: A.L. | Jun 20 2021 3:32 utc | 71

Thank you b for another expose' on,

FUKUS
Lies most foul....

Exhibit B

This is how they orchestrated the 1965 genocide on Chinese indons...

The Agency seized upon this opportunity [Suharto's response to Gestapu] and set out to destroy the P.K.I.... [eight sentences deleted].... Media fabrications played a key role in stirring up popular resentment against the P.K.I. Photographs of the bodies of the dead generals -- badly decomposed -- were featured in all the newspapers and on television. Stories accompanying the pictures falsely claimed that the generals had been castrated and their eyes gouged out by Communist women. This cynically manufactured campaign was designed to foment public anger against the Communists and set the stage for a massacre. ---------- The army's anxiety was increased by rumors, throughout 1965, that mainland China was smuggling arms to the PKI for an imminent revolt. Two weeks before Gestapu, a story to this effect also appeared in a Malaysian newspaper, citing Bangkok sources which relied in turn on Hong Kong sources.106 Such international untraceability is the stylistic hallmark of stories emanating in this period from what CIA insiders called their "mighty Wurlitzer," the world-wide network of press "assets" through which the CIA, or sister agencies such as Britain's MI-6, could plant unattributable disinformation.107 PKI demands for a popular militia or "fifth force," and the training of PKI youth at Lubang Buaja, seemed much more sinister to the Indonesian army in the light of the Chinese arms stories.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100714065449/https://astro.temple.edu/~bstavis/courses/215-indonesia-scott-pacific-affairs.htm">https://astro.temple.edu/~bstavis/courses/215-indonesia-scott-pacific-affairs.htm">https://web.archive.org/web/20100714065449/https://astro.temple.edu/~bstavis/courses/215-indonesia-scott-pacific-affairs.htm

In addition to their SARS2 and Uighurs
inquisition, [1]
sobs are now commemorating another lie most foul, ...'TAM MASSACRE'

Mathews traces much of the problem to a Hong Kong newspaper that immediately, after the 1989 disturbance, ran a long story under the name of an alleged student protester. He claimed he was at the square when troops arrived with machine guns to mow down students in the hundreds.

Distributed around the globe, the article was seen as final proof that the original BBC and other massacre reports were accurate. But the alleged author of that report was never located, and for good reason: The article was almost certainly planted — one of the many black information operations organized by British intelligence over the years.

U.K. black information efforts are much more pervasive than most realize. They began in the Cold War years with the creation of an International Research Department within the Foreign Office whose job was to provide gray and black information propaganda for use from unattributed sources.

http://gregoryclark.net/jt/page85/page85.html

[1]
Lies most foul...
SARS2 and UIghurs genocide

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/06/open-thread-2021-046.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef026bded95b5c200c#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef026bded95b5c200c

[comment 106]

Posted by: denk | Jun 20 2021 3:42 utc | 72

Sigh...
Another mess up.
Promise, no more webarchive links

Posted by: denk | Jun 20 2021 3:46 utc | 73

@4

Yes, Covid was created by the USA at Fort Dertrick, but it's initial release was accidental.

In May of 2018 a bad flood severely damaged parts of Fort Detrick including the steam boilers required for decontamination.

Labs dealing with pathogens, virus, bacteria, etc...use a machine called an autoclave to kill "germs" before they are disposed of. Autoclaves combine steam heat and pressure to sterilize.

The autoclaves at Fort Detrick were taken off-line, and a less reliable method using bleach and other chemicals was used instead. The chemical process was used incorrectly, as detailed in a report regarding safety violations that closed Fort Detrick in August of 2019.

Sometime between May 2018-August 2019 Covid escaped causing "mysterious" vaping illnesses and unusual pneumonia in a number of area nursing homes.

The virus was carried to Wuhan by military personnel based near Fort Detrick, I have to believe intentionally, but possibly accidentally.

Personnel from the military games flew in and out of Washington State and Louisiana causing the early outbreaks there, although the virus had been circulating in the USA before that, it just hasn't been identified as such.

The college I work for applied for a grant to test for Covid in December of 2019. The tests are extremely easy to manufacture. We were denied and given the runaround until June of 2020. I believe those in the know didn't want Covid traced early, as this would have revealed a different story, and would have made it hard to obfuscate the real origins.

Posted by: ArthurDent | Jun 20 2021 4:39 utc | 74

Posted by: A.L. | Jun 20 2021 3:32 utc | 71

If you like your tight tolerance stuff i suggest you pony up for it lest they go out of business, as i do when i can."

Yup, If the so-called "superior quality" can't compete in the market then it isn't exactly superior after all.

Posted by: J W | Jun 20 2021 4:46 utc | 75

I don’t think many people even read Pat Lang, much less take him seriously.
Kind of disappointed with this content.
But, carry on B!

Posted by: Cadence calls | Jun 20 2021 4:57 utc | 76

I read this story somewhere, too, and I had the same thoughts. A super secret Chinese defector to the USA who knows everything. In fact so super secret that not even the CIA knew his name. Hmm. Sure.

But what`s even more amazing than people taking such claims at face value is how easy it is possible to fact-check them in the age of internet. Good job!

Posted by: m | Jun 20 2021 5:17 utc | 77

Zerohedge.com has anti Chinaism as its religion, so no surprise there.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 20 2021 5:28 utc | 78

@ karlof1 | Jun 19 2021 21:46 utc | 43

Agree that election machinery in the US seemed well organized to cheat. As a French, I don't even understand how "dropboxes", "vote harvesting", "electronic tabulation", "USB sticks", "no ID".... can be DEMOCRATY. Or even reliable
But


Some 25 more batches were scanned twice, while many batch control sheets do not bear a tick in the box declaring they came from a secure container — potentially meaning they could have been tampered with.

Humans are no longer reliable too.


Posted by: Rêver | Jun 20 2021 5:51 utc | 79

@ ArthurDent | Jun 20 2021 4:39 utc | 74

Some French military participants of military games in Wuhan were thick "Covid like" too.
There were denied testing. Why?
"it's not Covid, you were in Wuhan in October and Covid begins December". That's for real. French army [Otan] medics. [the same for Norwegians]
https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/auvergne-rhone-alpes/loire/saint-etienne/coronavirus-athlete-stephanoise-affirme-avoir-ete-contaminee-octobre-wuhan-lors-jeux-mondiaux-militaires-1825160.html

By the way, normally all those people are controlled [anti-doping] and blood samples normally taken monthly before and after such competition.

As "Ryanair's Cockpit Voice Recorder"? Unfortunately erased?

Posted by: Rêver | Jun 20 2021 6:30 utc | 80

Its clear what the US intel services are up to here. They are in the throws of creating the foundation for their investigation into the origins of covid-19. The goal is to give credence to the lab-leak accusation so the investigation can claim the story is "likely".

Posted by: Hermius | Jun 20 2021 6:34 utc | 81

@ ArthurDent | Jun 20 2021 4:39 utc | 74

Some French military participants of military games in Wuhan were thick "Covid like" too.
There were denied testing. Why?9
"it's not Covid, you were in Wuhan in October and Covid begins December". That's for real. French army [Otan] medics. [the same for Norwegians]
https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/auvergne-rhone-alpes/loire/saint-etienne/coronavirus-athlete-stephanoise-affirme-avoir-ete-contaminee-octobre-wuhan-lors-jeux-mondiaux-militaires-1825160.html

By the way, normally all those people are controlled [anti-doping] and blood samples normally taken monthly before and after such competition.

As "Ryanair's Cockpit Voice Recorder"? Unfortunately erased?

Posted by: Rêver | June 20, 2021 at 06:30

+++
@ J W | Jun 20 2021 4:46 utc | 75
Nothing absolut with "Quality".
https://www.eeworldonline.com/what-is-the-relationship-between-product-quality-customer-satisfaction
For International traders: the price you can sold the product. And China can provide a "tsunami" of "good quality products" to American Amazon's customers.
And a massive $amount in return to "Build Future Better B&R"

Posted by: Rêver | Jun 20 2021 6:54 utc | 82

According to RedState


since our original reportu, which was pooh-poohed by Langley apologists, the New York Times published a rare interview with Dr. Shi Zhengli (the WIV “Bat Woman”), ABC News has started an “investigation” into COVID-19 origins....

As always, Fake News Is Just Another Form Of Manufacturing Consent.
The name of defector will be debunked.
The whole fakes [the listing of Intel] are swallowed.

;-)) not by us all.


Just some "StartPilot" in an old rusted 440 ci.
https://youtu.be/PpwnRkC0J-A

Posted by: Odenwälder | Jun 20 2021 7:28 utc | 83

Someone has posted a link to b's article today over in Lang's comments section. It has elicited a response from Pat and some of his commenters. Needless to say, they seem to disagree whether b and his customers just hate the US or are commie symps. A few years back I posted a few comments at Lang's place and received a similar reception. Was not banned but gave up on posting there.

Those retired spooks are certainly a perplexing bunch. They can certainly deliver some devastating critiques of US policies but their patriotism remains intact.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 20 2021 8:01 utc | 84


This Col blimp Lang was always reactionary and clueless about economic issues. His instinct and analysis about middle east rivalries were generally adequate. Turcopoles are neo-confederates and racists who hate most of their fellow countrymen... I stopped reading a long time ago, around the time Trump got elected. Cretinism is now pervasive in American society, even among so called ''conservatives''.

Posted by: Augustin L | Jun 20 2021 8:24 utc | 85

FYI Baidu.com has a counterpart of Google Translate: fanyi.baidu.com.
Posted by: TN | Jun 19 2021 18:36 utc | 31

@TN

Is there any version of baidu.com or other Chinese search site useable by non-Chinese speakers? When I was in China all the search engines I tried using were blocked, I couldn't find any way of doing internet searches. I think even Yandex was blocked.

Posted by: BM | Jun 20 2021 12:22 utc | 86

At that time, Lang had added a neat little feature (an app.) to his blog site. It was one of those world maps which registers a "dot" from the location of anyone who accesses it. Since my entry to China more than a week earlier, there were no "dots" on mainland China. Hence one could conclude that despite the availability of his blog in China, nobody was accessing it. That changed the afternoon I gave the URL to my inquisitive tour guide. Dots started appearing all over the place, and not only in Beijing. Maybe the guy passed it on to friends he had in other cities. Maybe he was being surveilled by the government (which at some level was undoubtedly following developments in the Donbas). Just an intriguing story of mine.
Posted by: Maracatu | Jun 20 2021 0:17 utc | 60

Wow! That is interesting, it would be nice to have such an app on MoA! What do you think, b?

Posted by: BM | Jun 20 2021 12:43 utc | 87

Chinese Imam on the truth about alleged Uyghur insurgence...

https://twitter.com/Jingjing_Li/status/1406104828678311936

Posted by: Asha K. | Jun 20 2021 12:53 utc | 88

@Posted by: BM | Jun 20 2021 12:43 utc | 86

Martyanov has that festure at his blog...I wonder why...

Btw, that Martaynov also gets alongs quite well with Pat lang...

Posted by: Asha K. | Jun 20 2021 12:54 utc | 89

I am new here. I also went to check out Pat Lang's site. The first article was featuring some of Gordon Chang's opinions. Anyone who quotes Gordon Chang doesn't deserve my attention.

Yeah, and I speak and read Chinese. The only thing Chinese about Gordon Chang is his surname. He certainly doesn't understand the Chinese psyche, culture or history. But he is great for CCP. He keeps Washington misinformed and lulled in its continued hubris.

Posted by: littlereddot | Jun 20 2021 14:00 utc | 90

Thank you for all your research. I've seen other outlets tell me the defector story is fake, but not shown me why. Jon Stewart's performance on Colbert's show has demonstrated that TPTB have decided to unify us with a designated boogeyman. It also seems Covid "plandemic" will be the gift that keeps giving until total tyranny is achieved. Since I am a bit contrary, when the TPTB point their finger at the designated boogeyman, I just follow the pointing direction of their other three (4) fingers. When did Fort Detrich close? 2019?" With the state of the modern media, its no longer cynical thinking.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Jun 20 2021 14:07 utc | 91

@ArthurDent | Jun 20 2021 4:39 utc | 75

Yup. And what about the 1.1% of USA blood donation samples being positive for sars-cov-2 antibodies at the very moment when the Chinese first noticed it on their shores? Extraplolating those numbers suggests that substantially more than 300 thousand Americans had already been in contact with the virus by that time.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201202/covid-19-possibly-arrived-in-the-u-s-in-dec-2019

On a similar vein, in early 2020, a Washington state doctor was ordered to stop testing for sars-cov-2 and to destroy the preliminary results of testing. Meanwhile, Trump declared all White House briefings on the evolving pandemic a state secret.

Posted by: Lurk | Jun 20 2021 14:08 utc | 92

Oh and wrt the EVALI "epidemic": check out the lead images at these two MEDCRAM youtube videos:

Vaping / E-Cigarette Lung Failure, Illness, Disease Outbreak
and
How Coronavirus Kills: Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS) & COVID 19 Treatment

Looks like "ground glass" in both cases. Also watch the comments to the EVALI video: people pointing out the obvious relation to COVID-19.

Amusingly, in another MEDCRAM video on EVALI, a commenter asks what therapy to use for EVALI and Dr. Seheult blandly suggests a COVID-19 oriented therapy for EVALI.

Kevin Tlilayatzi
7 months ago
But what can people do to treat this from home?

MedCram - Medical Lectures Explained CLEARLY
7 months ago
Look at MedCram 46 and 47
Hydrotherapyathome.com
Hydro4covid.com

MedCram - Medical Lectures Explained CLEARLY
7 months ago
Vit D

Posted by: Lurk | Jun 20 2021 14:17 utc | 93

... whether one wants to use the term “spy,” those students were sent back to the United States with specific information-gathering directives

Bernhard, actually the point at which Pat "seemed to get crazy" is an interesting question. Not least since I was confronted with the highly hilarious 'intelligence' I could be some sort of spy myself. Thus understand: I do not really have an interest to dig into this. I should?

Present context: Let us not forget Pat had to flee an American host for more freedom elsewhere? Endangered American species? Censored?

Some of my questions, around the context linked below. Not quite the time I recall Larry being around in Pat's comment section though. And yes, I surely wasn't a fan of US Democrats like Hillary Clinton, or her becoming president ever. ... as female ... never mind glass ceilings and all ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EXwNlDTRwo

Larry Johnson was Pat's co-author on intelligence. Have the book around somewhere. To me personally it felt as if after several anonymouses, before Larry may have taken over matters at one point. From within my nitwit perception.

While 'the left' or their arguments may always have been troll suspects for Pat, the more likely responded, the more likely they were banned. ...

More curious would be the questions around earlier authors gone by now over the decades.

Posted by: LeaNder | Jun 20 2021 14:20 utc | 94

@littlereddot | Jun 20 2021 14:00 utc | 91

The sudden rise of cretinous doltery in this thread made it readily apparent that the sumpy waters at turcopolier had been stirred.

By the way, people should really refrain from quoting anything at zerohedge. That clickbaiting shitsite posts undiluted sewage from gatestoneinstitute without refrain. Draw your own conlusions.

Posted by: Lurk | Jun 20 2021 14:22 utc | 95

correction:
"... the more likely responded, the more likely they were banned. ...

They more likely they responded from what could be interpreted as liberal perpective.

Posted by: LeaNder | Jun 20 2021 14:25 utc | 96

Another peculiarity about "Trumpist" Pat Lang that I noticed in a past post in one of the Max Blumenthal drama threads was Pat's closenes to the circle of Clinton buddies:

Sid Blumenthal nagging the Secretary of State of the United States to send his friend a thank you note

From: sbwhoeop@[redacted]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 04:56 PM
To: H
Subject: H: personal note. Sid

Hillary,

My friend, Pat Lang, a member of the board of trustees of VMI, was the one who initiated your speech there.
Unfortunately, he could not attend [redacted] He was very sorry he could not be there. [redacted]. I wonder if you might write Pat a brief note thanking him for the VMI invitation, how it went, [redacted].

Here's his home address:
[redacted]

Thanks.

Sid

Source at gawker.com: Look for the mail below the “Your Max is a mitzvah!” one.

Posted by: Lurk | Jun 20 2021 14:33 utc | 97

Regarding Lang et al and followers of ZH, for some it is very difficult to reconcile the conflict between their life-long loyalty to their flag vs. the administration when it no longer represent their ideals. Some level of cognitive dissonance is to be expected.

There's little issue with allegiance to your country, it's blind obedience to the administration wrapped in the false veil of patriotism that's the problem.

We're sleepwalking into 1933. Coming up - the Enabling Act.

Posted by: A.L. | Jun 20 2021 15:22 utc | 98

On a clear day, I can see everything about Colonel Pat Lang in my mind. My most preferred guess is that he thinks (almost) exactly like a US intelligence officer.

I can honestly claim to have lived a highly strange life. I have known at least one individual, but probably several, who were in the process of being recruited by the 'intelligence community'. I have observed a great deal of incredibly peculiar patterns of, um, psychological conditioning. It's truly mind blowing to watch the 'process' unfold. Let me just say that a whole lot of the wackiest conspiracy 'theory' serves as a solid foundation for this 'process'.

Say, for example, you have a friend who off-hand mentions that some 'agency' is paying for his fancy college education. Then you would likely notice that this friend's behavior is becoming incredibly weird. In fact they seem to have joined some amazingly powerful cult, with certain very specific belief systems. They develop bizarre compulsive tendencies; for example they feel an irresistible need to 'get in on' things. In the case of something like the Occupy Movement, there will always be police 'infiltration', but 'getting in on' takes it to a far higher level. (See: Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon - Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops & the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream (2014) by David McGowan & Nick Bryant.)

I just see Lang as a former military man who also happens to be a rather low- on- the- food- chain former intel officer. This sort of thing depresses me these days.

Posted by: blues | Jun 20 2021 15:41 utc | 99

After having controlled the pandemic in their country without the need of unleashing mass vacciantion campaigns, the Chinese are warp speeding the vacciantion of their population..

Could it be related to the last outbrek in Moscow of the Indian variant?

https://www.rt.com/news/527082-china-1-billion-vaccines/

If we admit that coronaviruses are estational, like the flu, and thus past year, even without vaccines we had if not the same, better downside of cases at the same time of the year, around the summer, how in the Earth a sensational outbreak happens to ocur in Moscow?

There is no Indian people wandering around Mosocw ever, less this year...On the contrary, you can always find many Chinese there...Moscow, as it is Wuhan, is a major transportation hub as mega city, and we are about to arrvie the Russian National Day which marks the Russians exodus to their dachas...

Another point to consider in the lab biowarfare origins theory...
To me resembles all the way the so called firts outbrevak around the Chinese New Year in another major trnasportation hub, Wuhan....

China and Russia have been designated major menaces to the US in its national security strategies...

Is this a new reelease of a more dangerous strain to cause prejudice to Russia and China in the context of current hybrid war?

It is in this context that it was necessary to come with a Chinese mole who, so timely, comes to support the US deceptive theory of the Chinese lab origins of the chimera virus.

It is a US custom to accuse others of what they do all the tiem, last time Biden in his presser after Geneva Summit asking the "journalists" to consider what the people of the world would think of the US if they would go over there meddling in other countries internal issues...

Posted by: Asha K. | Jun 20 2021 16:10 utc | 100

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