Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 27, 2021

The 'Lab-Leak' Theory Is Not Of Equal Value - Promoting It Furthers The China Hawks

It is a sad experience to see that several writers I like and often agree with are now propping up a Russiagate like conspiracy theory about the origin of the novel coronavirus.

Let's start with Kit Klarenberg who, in a lengthy cherry picking 'lab escape theory' essay, quotes approvingly from a Technology Review piece:

[Computer modeling] generated a startling result: the spike proteins studding SARS-CoV-2 bound more tightly to their human cell receptor, a protein called ACE2, than target receptors on any other species evaluated. In other words, SARS-CoV-2 was surprisingly well adapted to its human prey, which is unusual for a newly emerging pathogen.

Huh?

BREAKING: Virus which predominantly infects humans is well adapted to predominantly infect humans!

Which proves exactly what?

On May 7 Michael Tracey pushed similar nonsense:

As New Evidence Emerges For COVID "Lab-Leak" Theory, Journalists Who Screamed “Conspiracy” Humiliate Themselves

Over and over again early last year, as the COVID pandemic was ramping up but hadn’t yet reached the US in earnest, journalists working at prominent national publications claimed to have conclusive knowledge about the origins of the virus. It was trafficking in a “conspiracy theory” that had been roundly “debunked” — they collectively declared — to suggest that the virus may have originated in a laboratory that specializes in experimenting on human infectious diseases in Wuhan, China.
...
These declarations look dopier than ever after a new article was published this week by the journalist Nicholas Wade, who for many years was a science correspondent for the New York Times. At the very least, Wade demonstrates that the “lab-leak” theory ought not to be discounted. But he also goes much further, showing that the theory is in fact highly plausible.

Is the 'lab-leak' theory as 'highly plausible' as Wade's earlier theory that racial differences in economic success come from genetic differences amplified by culture?

The fact that 140+ well established genetic scientists signed a public letter which rejected the earlier Wade theory as "guesswork" might tell us something?

Two days ago Glenn Greenwald jumped in:

Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald - 0:09 utc · May 25, 2021

It's stunning how quickly, in mainstream sectors, this traveled from "insane unhinged conspiracy theory that must be censored from the internet as harmful disinformation" to "serious and plausible possibility for which rational evidence exists."
Let's learn lessons from this.

The Hill @thehill · May 25
Former FDA chief: Growing circumstantial evidence that COVID "could have come out of a lab" http://hill.cm/cYH8yN8

Then, under a similar mantle of 'media critique', Matt Taibbi furthered the 'lab escape' theory

When the Wall Street Journal came out with a story that a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report detailed how three Wuhan researchers became sick enough to be hospitalized in November of 2019, the toothpaste was fully out of the tube: there was no longer any way to say the “lab origin” hypothesis was too silly to be reported upon.

That’s not to say the “lab origin” theory is correct, at all. However, that’s irrelevant to issue at hand.

No, that is not irrelevant at all.

A few hours ago Jimmy Dore and Matt Taibbi again promoted that shit citing the dubious paper published on January 15 which was not, as claimed, an 'intelligence report' but stove piped speculation by a small group in Mike Pompeo's State Department and recently warmed up again by Michael R. Gordon(!) and others in the Wall Street Journal.

The Narrator has picked that shoddy performance apart:

TheNarrator @TheNarrator000 - 23:52 utc · May 26, 2021

I’m amazed to watch Matt Taibbi correctly note this issue is “highly technical” and requires arduous expert consideration, only to pivot to saying a fringe theory was suppressed in a form of “manufacturing consent.” Wow.
...

Since the virus emerged I have quite diligently followed the scientific discussions about the origin of SARS-CoV-2. I can authoritatively say that the Nicolas Wade theory is not 'plausible' and certainly not 'highly plausible' at all. Wade and other assert that two theses - 'the virus emerged naturally' and 'the virus was created in and/or escaped a Chinese lab' - have equal weight.

We know that trick. Back in 2002 the two claims - 'Saddam Hussein will soon have nuclear weapons' - and - 'Saddam Hussein does not have the means to develop nuclear weapons' - were promoted as equally likely even as they were not. Both of those theses were theoretically possible. But the first was obvious nonsense while the second was well founded in objective facts. The 'lab leak' theory is similar to the first WMD claim - evidence-free speculation long promoted by a neoconservative leaning administration that was extremely hostile to the 'guilty' country in question.

As a reminder here is what the very same Michael R. Gordon and Judith Miller reported on September 8 2002:

More than a decade after Saddam Hussein agreed to give up weapons of mass destruction, Iraq has stepped up its quest for nuclear weapons and has embarked on a worldwide hunt for materials to make an atomic bomb, Bush administration officials said today."

The same day Condoleezza Rice went live to further that nonsense:

On CNN on Sept. 8, 2002, then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice infamously warned — incorrectly — that Saddam Hussein may be close to producing a nuclear weapon. When asked how “close” Saddam was to “developing a nuclear capacity,” Rice replied:

RICE: The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.

As a push for action against Iraq, she added, “How long are we going to wait to deal with what is clearly a gathering threat against the United States, against our allies and against his own region?”

To see that writers like Tracey, Greenwald, Taibbi and Dore, usually considered to be adversarial to MSM nonsense, now cite such dimwits like Nicolas Wade and propagandists like Michael Gordon - who again quotes anonymous 'administration officials' - is beyond disappointing.

They encourage others like this BBC nitwit to follow Rice's path:

John Sudworth @TheJohnSudworth - 16:10 utc · May 25, 2021

There is no proof the virus leaked from a lab. But, of course, that’s the point. Without transparency we can’t rule it out either. I’m proud to have been part of one of the first MSM news teams to ask these crucial questions.

"There is no proof that Saddam will soon have nuclear weapons. But, of course, that’s the point. Without transparency we can’t rule it out either. I’m proud to have been part of one of the first MSM news teams to ask these crucial questions."

Yes, the sinophobe John Sudworth is again asking those crucial questions ...:

Hurry Up! Let's invade Iraq China!

Well then, how about these lab incidents:

From Jan. 1, 2015, through June 1, 2020, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill reported 28 lab incidents involving genetically engineered organisms to safety officials at the National Institutes of Health, according to documents UNC released to ProPublica under a public records request. The NIH oversees research involving genetically modified organisms.

Six of the incidents involved various types of lab-created coronaviruses. Many were engineered to allow the study of the virus in mice. UNC declined to answer questions about the incidents and to disclose key details about them to the public, including the names of viruses involved, the nature of the modifications made to them and what risks were posed to the public, contrary to NIH guidelines.

When and where has John Sudworth, or any of the other writers mentioned above, asked the "crucial questions" about the University of North Carolina research with lab-modified coronaviruses?

That he would never dare to do so tells you everything you need to know about the issue. This isn't just about an implausible, evidence free tale of a SARS-CoV-2 lab escape. It is a campaign launched to depict China as an enemy of humankind.

Said differently:

If the question is “are both hypotheses possible?” the answer is yes. Both are possible. If the question is “are they equally likely?” the answer is absolutely not. One hypothesis requires a colossal cover-up and the silent, unswerving, leak-proof compliance of a vast network of scientists, civilians, and government officials for over a year. The other requires only for biology to behave as it always has, for a family of viruses that have done this before to do it again. The zoonotic spillover hypothesis is simple and explains everything. It’s scientific malpractice to pretend that one idea is equally as meritorious as the other. The lab-leak hypothesis is a scientific deus ex machina, a narrative shortcut that points a finger at a specific set of bad actors. I would be embarrassed to stand up in front of a room of scientists, lay out both hypotheses, and then pretend that one isn’t clearly, obviously better than the other. 

Besides the hazy science, there is an undeniable political aspect to this argument. When violence against Asian people in the US is spiking, it’s naive at best and violent gaslighting at worst to pretend that supporting an evidence-free hypothesis that clearly adds fuel to the idea that China inflicted COVID-19 upon the world, that they did this to us, is noble scientific dispassion. There’s a choice being made here between two ideas — one that falls neatly within the world of biology, and the other that knots together conspiracy theory, political intrigue, and xenophobia.

To further baseless speculations about a 'lab escape' of SARS-CoV-2 has serious political consequences:

President Joe Biden said Wednesday he is ordering U.S. intelligence agencies to "redouble their efforts" to investigate the origins of COVID-19, including "specific questions for China."

Biden said an initial report he asked for earlier this month on whether the virus came from human contact with an infected animal or from a lab incident in China was inconclusive, so he's asking for a second report in 90 days to "bring us closer to a definitive conclusion."

"As of today, the U.S. Intelligence Community has 'coalesced around two likely scenarios' but has not reached a definitive conclusion on this question," Biden said in a statement. "Here is their current position: 'while two elements in the IC leans toward the former scenario and one leans more toward the latter – each with low or moderate confidence – the majority of elements do not believe there is sufficient information to assess one to be more likely than the other."

That cave in to the hawks of course only encouraged them to pile on:

"I think we should send a clear signal to China," [Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.,]said, "which seems to be the source of a lot of pandemics, that if this did occur in the lab, expect something to happen 'cause if we don't, we're just going to reinforce this in the future."
...
"President Biden sides with China, WHO and the liberal media on Wuhan virus—joining the 'nothing to see here crowd' by shutting down State Dept. pandemic origin investigation I commenced," [former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo] tweeted. "This isn't political. America must lead on this."
...
With the lab-leak theory getting new attention, [former President Donald Trump] released a statement this week, saying, "Now everybody is agreeing that I was right when I very early on called Wuhan as the source of COVID-19, sometimes referred to as the China Virus."

The claim that SARS-CoV-2 is men-created and/or escaped from a laboratory is a theory without any supporting evidence. On the other side there are in total hundreds of adenoviruses, rhinoviruses and coronaviruses of various types that have naturally evolved and eventually managed to infect humans. To see Tracey, Greenwald, Taibbi and Dore blaming mainstream media for giving more weight to the well known natural process than to the evidence free 'lab escape' theory is not only hilarious, it is sad.

This especially as they know that all their speculation does is to further warmongering China hawks.

Posted by b on May 27, 2021 at 7:33 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

@ denk | May 28 2021 9:37 utc | 202

Thank you for the info.

Posted by: Idiocrates | May 28 2021 10:01 utc | 201

vk @ 174

I said nothing about gain of function. I said nothing about Wuhan. Your understanding of either the English language or elementary biology leaves much to be desired.

Posted by: oldhippie | May 28 2021 10:21 utc | 202

@Idiocrates,

what's coming is a culling from the sociopath elite and if you are buzzing at a lower fear/anger/hate vibration you won't see how to counter it with the creative forces inherent in fully activated human beings.

you mention the moon and man. I'll mention the occult and Jack Parsons. oh, and all those smart paperclip Germans who helped rockets go boom out of the goodness of their scientific hearts.

Posted by: lizard | May 28 2021 12:12 utc | 203

@200 Bemildred
Genetic analysis shows clearly that all currently circulating CoV-SARS-2 strains descent from a group of very closely related variants of CoV-SARS-2 which have all been found at Wuhan and nowhere else in the world. Their common ancestor is estimated to have excisted in mid/late 2019.

Scientists who propose of the zoonotic origin hypothesis don`t dispute this.

There are no “separate outbreaks” in multiple places across the world.

Posted by: m | May 28 2021 12:19 utc | 204

Thucydides Trap (in which the dominant power attempts to derail/crush the rising power) suggests that we should be as suspicious about a deliberate "lab leak" from the Empire as we are about an accidental "lab leak" from China.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 28 2021 13:00 utc | 205

The following post appeared as @ Posted by: RJPJR | May 27 2021 14:42 utc | 81 as shown by current posts 77, 78 and 81. It was deleted. No comment.
Lots of missing pieces in this discussion.
SARS-CoV-1 was a germ warfare agent resulting from gain-of-function work, which escaped from a lab in China in November 2002, as admitted by the WHO, off the record, which called in a team of seven world-class military germ warfare specialists from the U.K. to deal with it (from behind closed doors).
As a journalist based in Geneva and covering the WHO, I know quite a bit about it. Also, since the 1996 Bioweapons Treaty Review Conference, also in Geneva, that set up a working group to draft what turned out to be a superb legally binding protocol to the Convention (which G.W.B & C° killed at the at the last minute, making the Convention thenceforth a dead letter), I have been tracking the U.S. germ warfare program (which, officially, does not exist) for some 25 years.
The basic information on SARS-CoV-1 was given to WHO-affiliated labs in February 2003. The U.S. put the screws to the WHO to demand and get EVERYTHING that the Chinese had on the virus and the work behind it, citing its danger. China balked, but eventually gave in (much to its later regret).
The file was passed to the U.S., and the U.S. then built its gain-of-function work on what the Chinese had been doing. Later, China fought tooth and nail to install Margaret Chan as Director-General of the WHO, who obliged the Chinese by adjusting the protocol for information sharing so that no country (but specifically China) could ever again be roped into turning over everything to the WHO.
U.S. gain-of-function work was (still is?) centered on Fort Detrick with auxiliary work elsewhere, in particular at the University of North Carolina. The main actor was EcoHealth Alliance, run by Daszak and funded by money channelled by Fauci through a public-private partnership grant from his NIAID.
It is worth noting that in his recent wrangle with Senator Rand Paul, Fauci kept asserting that the NIH does not conduct, and has never conducted, gain-of-function work. Absent form his repeated assertions is any mention of his NIAID, which is nominally under the NIH but entirely independent of it, and funded independently of it by Congress. However, near the end of the wrangle, Fauci, manifestly perturbed, does slip in one mention of his NIAID side by side with the NIH in his obviously frustrated final denial ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=nsJb5PNl9PQ ).
That work was transferred to Wuhan in 2014 when Obama issued a ban on gain-of-function work, following the fiasco in western Africa from ebola weaponization work, but it returned to the U.S. in 2017 when Trump lifted the ban. So, it was centered on Wuhan for less than three years.
The ban occurred after Obama had had to be briefed on the ebola weaponization that was taking place in western Africa because judged too dangerous to be conducted on United States territory. That work was in its final stage, and an antidote in the form of a vaccine was being prepared and administered to / tested on the uninformed Africans on the pretext that it was urgent to vaccinate them from ebola, even though ebola was not endemic to the area and its primary location was in central Africa, some four or five thousands kilometers away.
The vaccine (or "vaccine"?) turned out to be a disaster and set off a pandemic with a reported 80% mortality rate (I don’t know the final mortality rate). The U.S. responded in one of its "noblest humanitarian gestures in modern times" by sending in thousands of military to supervise the containment effort. Here in Geneva, we were briefed on this and fed the line about humanitarian response. Every question about why the U.S. was sending in military with NO pandemic training, only combat training, was met with the typical, "We are grateful for the generous support coming from the U.S., and it is not for the WHO to dictate to a WHO member state how to respond..."
It is highly unlikely that the Chinese authorities knew that the work being carried on in Wuhan with Eco-Haelth Alliance was gain-of-function. The project had its own dedicated space. The lab, under the Chinese military, was/is level four, meaning designed, built and maintained to deal with the most lethal pathogens possible (like Fort Detrick). As such it was top secret.
The Washington Post gave the game away in April of last year when it published an article about a visit to the lab by officials from the United States embassy in Beijing, during which employees confided to them that there seemed to be insufficient security in the lab.
It is inconceivable that ANY foreign officials would have been allowed in a top-secret military lab in any country. Therefore, the visit had to have taken place within a “cordoned off” section of the institute, set apart for the EcoHealth partnership venture – in other words, what was classified by the Chinese to be a non-military work area. That U.S. officials were visiting is logical since the work was U.S.-taxpayer funded.
The gain-of-function work goes back some 20 years. It is attested to in numerous peer-reviewed articles over the years boasting about the insertion of a block of 16 nucleotides identical to the 16 alien nucleotides in SARS-CoV-2, which is a sort of clone of the first SARS-CoV-2 but the result of considerably more advanced work, hence more transmissible. It is engineered to mutate and become more powerful (both more virulent and more transmissible) and is demonstrating that the work to make it more powerful has been successful to at least some extent, for it is not showing signs of petering out / abating (as natural viruses do over time), not any time soon anyway.
The leak came from Fort Detrick, outside Washington, D.C., in July 2019, at which point the CDC, up until then kept out of this level-four, top secret military installation, was called in. For the CDC to be called in, something colossal must have happened (or something posing a colossal threat). The next day, the whole place was shut down, locked with reinforced "security" and everybody (700+
That work was transferred to Wuhan in 2014 when Obama issued a ban on gain-of-function work, following the fiasco in western Africa from ebola weaponization work, but it returned to the U.S. in 2017 when Trump lifted the ban. So, it was centered on Wuhan for less than three years.
The ban occurred after Obama had had to be briefed on the ebola weaponization that was taking place in western Africa because judged too dangerous to be conducted on United States territory.
That work was in its final stage, and an antidote in the form of a vaccine was being prepared and administered to / tested on the uninformed Africans on the pretext that it was urgent to vaccinate them from ebola, even though ebola was not endemic to the area and its primary location was in central Africa, some four or five thousands kilometers away.
The vaccine (or "vaccine"?) turned out to be a disaster and set off a pandemic with a reported 80% mortality rate (I don’t know the final mortality rate). The U.S. responded in one of its "noblest humanitarian gestures in modern times" by sending in thousands of military to supervise the containment effort. Here in Geneva, we were briefed on this and fed the line about humanitarian response. Every question about why the U.S. was sending in military with NO pandemic training, only combat training, was met with the typical, "We are grateful for the generous support coming from the U.S., and it is not for the WHO to dictate to a WHO member state how to respond..."
It is highly unlikely that the Chinese authorities knew that the work being carried on in Wuhan with Eco-Haelth Alliance was gain-of-function. The project had its own dedicated space. The lab, under the Chinese military, was/is level four, meaning designed, built and maintained to deal with the most lethal pathogens possible (like Fort Detrick). As such it was top secret.
The Washington Post gave the game away in April of last year when it published an article about a visit to the lab by officials from the United States embassy in Beijing, during which employees confided to them that there seemed to be insufficient security in the lab.
It is inconceivable that ANY foreign officials would have been allowed in a top-secret military lab in any country. Therefore, the visit had to have taken place within a “cordoned off” section of the institute, set apart for the EcoHealth partnership venture – in other words, what was classified by the Chinese to be a non-military work area. That U.S. officials were visiting is logical since the work was U.S.-taxpayer funded.
The gain-of-function work goes back some 20 years. It is attested to in numerous peer-reviewed articles over the years boasting about the insertion of a block of 16 nucleotides identical to the 16 alien nucleotides in SARS-CoV-2, which is a sort of clone of the first SARS-CoV-2 but the result of considerably more advanced work, hence more transmissible. It is engineered to mutate and become more powerful (both more virulent and more transmissible) and is demonstrating that the work to make it more powerful has been successful to at least some extent, for it is not showing signs of petering out / abating (as natural viruses do over time), not any time soon anyway.
The leak came from Fort Detrick, outside Washington, D.C., in July 2019, at which point the CDC, up until then kept out of this level-four, top secret military installation, was called in. For the CDC to be called in, something colossal must have happened (or something posing a colossal threat). The next day, the whole place was shut down, locked with reinforced "security" and everybody (700+ employees in the central lab) on paid furlough fro months. The first cases of what we now call covid-19 occurred the next month (August), also in the Washington, D.C., area.
The virus has been found to have been in northeast Spain and northern Italy in September 2019, both areas with direct flights to Washington. In October, the U.S. sent over 300 military to Wuhan for the World Military Games, several of whom were so sick that they had to be hospitalized upon arrival. The Chinese doctors (among the best in the county, hence in the world), put at the disposal of the athletes by the host country, were flummoxed and could diagnose only "atypical pneumonia" (to wit it looks like pneumonia, but we don't really know what it is), the same diagnosis of the cases in the Washington area. (By the way, the U.S. teams were lodged in a hotel next to the now (in)famous wet market.)
The whole gang was repatriated under a military medical evacuation to the Barksdale (Louisiana) military base, the most secure in the world (where G.W.B. was taken on the morning of 11 September 2001) some fifteen or sixteen hours flying time. Later, in the beginning of 2020, there were two pandemic epicenters in the U.S.: the New York City area and Louisiana. The latter rapidly disappeared from all corporate media coverage. The evacuation took place without the Chinese public health authorities being notified, in violation of the International Health Regulations.
Event 201 (19 October 2019) was obviously intended to prepare for the worst, although it was entirely oriented to the "private" (corporate) sector and to “responses” that would make money for the corporatocracy, with remarkable little attention to basic public health considerations. Trump put paid to any such plan with his imperative, "Don't spook the markets!"
Note that it was the Chinese who mapped the genome and promptly published it (12 January 2020). If it had been mapped in the U.S., it would have been locked up under intellectual property rights protection, and the public would not have had access to it until/unless some other country, with the means, mapped it and published it.
Everything I have seen in my efforts to track this affair since December 2019 says that the Chinese were caught off guard and, upon realizing the seriousness of the situation, believed that they were under attack.
The disarray in Washington was obvious, for they were in a bind: Trump & C° were opposed to taking the decisive action that the situation required for that would let it be known that something seriously disruptive was threatening, and the Pentagon has over the years steadfastly refused to admit that it has a germ warfare program in flagrant violation of its commitments under the Bioweapons Treaty that it has effectively neutered but still pays lip-service to. The result was paralysis, contradictions and confusion, all amplified by the confederacy of dunces in the White House.
Look at Taiwan's response to see what could have been done: for 23+ million people, with close ties to China (notwithstanding the constant tension between the two countries), they have 6,761 confirmed cases (through reliable testing) owing to a recent outbreak, with 59 deaths, 2 per million as opposed to the U.S. (Until just the recent outbreak, it was .3 per million.) The U.S. can boast 1,822 deaths per million.
Any discussion of mortality is premature as long as the virus is still circulating and killing. Any mention of covid-19 as a "flu" is absurd: flu does not leave one with permanent lung damage, nor permanent heart damage, nor permanent brain damage, nor permanent muscle damage, nor permanent liver damage, nor permanent kidney damage... nor chronic fatigue. I speak from my own experience and from that of some several dozen friends and acquaintances.
I hope this fills in some of the missing pieces.

Posted by: RJPJR | May 28 2021 15:38 utc | 206

Idiocrates 201


The next time you hear...

'Threat reduction research'

Apply empire watch rule 1
put everything outta fukus thru an inverter and you'd be fine.
-------------------------------------------

Exhibit A

2014
BUbonic attack.

US builds bubonic plague lab close to Chinese border – and to Yumen City in Gansu province [1]

Why ?

When it opens in September 2015, the $102-million project laboratory is meant to serve as a Central Asian way station for a global war on dangerous disease. [sic] And as a project under that Pentagon program, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, [sic] the lab will be built, and some of its early operation funded, by American taxpayers.
......................
Increased trade with its eastern neighbor China also threatens to increase the transmission of disease. "[sic]

[2]

Barely one year later,
Chinese border town Yumen was hit with Bubonic, triggering a lockdown.

Yet another coincidence I bet
hehehhe

[1]
https://web.archive.org/web/20140924233213/https://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2014/07/25/us-builds-bubonic-plague-lab-close-to-chinese-border-and-to-yumen-city-in-gansu-province/">https://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2014/07/25/us-builds-bubonic-plague-lab-close-to-chinese-border-and-to-yumen-city-in-gansu-province/">https://web.archive.org/web/20140924233213/https://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2014/07/25/us-builds-bubonic-plague-lab-close-to-chinese-border-and-to-yumen-city-in-gansu-province/

[2]
https://web.archive.org/web/20140221094727/http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-08/why-us-building-high-tech-bubonic-plague-lab-kazakhstan">http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-08/why-us-building-high-tech-bubonic-plague-lab-kazakhstan">https://web.archive.org/web/20140221094727/http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-08/why-us-building-high-tech-bubonic-plague-lab-kazakhstan

Posted by: denk | May 28 2021 15:39 utc | 207

damn...forget about webarchive problem,
again.

Posted by: denk | May 28 2021 15:41 utc | 208

B - Superb as always - the Anti #China propaganda dinosaurs trundle on. This from Nathan Rich is entertaining: https://youtu.be/SJC3BFtU2NQ?t=340

Posted by: Barrie VVeiss | May 28 2021 16:25 utc | 209

@180 Posted by: laodan | May 28 2021 2:05

"Even Matt Taibbi was failing at his own fact check..."

read the article! the 'toothpaste out of the tube' comment meant that the whole narrative reversed when the WSJ 'made it so', but the media narrative doesn't prove anything either way. his whole article is explaining that journalism 'fact checking' is not about peer-reviewing research to verify theories as fact (duh), and his whole point is that the media is trashing the term 'fact check'. the example of the Wuhan narrative is funny because it was being removed from social media, but then became the opposite. ironically, this whole comment thread is trying to prove one or another thing that can't actually be proven just by tossing articles around, it's funny to watch...

@179 Posted by: pogohere | May 28 2021 1:57

“If you remove the replicating capabilities of the virus, it still has a major damaging effect on the vascular cells, simply by virtue of its ability to bind to this ACE2 receptor, the S protein receptor, now famous thanks to COVID,” Manor explains. “Further studies with mutant spike proteins will also provide new insight towards the infectivity and severity of mutant SARS CoV-2 viruses.”

the research referenced did cell culture to come to this, which means they grew cells in a flask and added the proteins. it's not the same as infecting a human with a dose of the proteins w/o virus machinery (which is kinda like the new vaccines, btw). the news article makes it sound like the protein alone can do this to humans, but all they did was expose a certain type of cell to the protein structure in a dish.

Posted by: k | May 28 2021 16:33 utc | 210

Wow. Someone is really against it being true, the Wuhan Lab theory. But it was obvious from the beginning that it was true. Just ask that female scientist who worked there and is now in exile. It's hard to believe how verbose you got. Must have really touched some kind of nerve there.

By the way, it's been established science for 30 years that there are genetic differences in the races and it's the obvious explanation for different economic outcomes. It's also common sense. You can see it with your own eyes and via history.

It doesn't matter what frightened "experts" afraid of being canceled wrote in a letter. Don't be fooled.

Posted by: restless94110 | May 28 2021 16:44 utc | 211

RJPJR @ 208

On it’s face that comment is the best article on covid seen in sixteen months.

Please other readers wading through this lengthy thread, read RJPJR.

This has been published before, somewhere. A couple paragraphs pretty sure I’ve read them before. Could we have a link? Especially could we have a link or more information about the 16 nucleotides?

Posted by: oldhippie | May 28 2021 16:52 utc | 212

Why is b deleting RJPJR's excellent contribution, but allowing obvious trolls to spew chyynna-hate agitprop?

It's disgraceful.

Posted by: Lurk | May 28 2021 18:06 utc | 213

If the virus is man-made, it could’ve come from anywhere. If the US wanted to stage a bio attack on China (certainly possible) it would make sense to infiltrate Chinese labs and leak out a virus from a Chinese lab rather than create one in a US lab and send it to China.

Once you go down the man-made road anything is possible. Those who push man made generally refuse to acknowledge this.

Posted by: Alaric | May 28 2021 18:44 utc | 214

MoA STILL understands absolutely nothing when it comes to coronavirus. He simply has NO medical or scientific background whatsoever. It's a real shame. He doesn't even understand the many points made by virologists and other researchers.

Posted by: Jerry | May 28 2021 20:06 utc | 215

@ Lurk | May 28 2021 18:06 utc | 215

Because WHO went to Wuhan and saw no covid. You must believe...

Posted by: B51 | May 28 2021 20:07 utc | 216

@ Jerry | May 28 2021 20:06 utc | 217

Not only that, he is consistently filtering out undesirable opinions. This is becoming an echo chamber.

Posted by: B51 | May 28 2021 20:09 utc | 217

@ Posted by: B51 | May 28 2021 20:07 utc | 218

If the American government goes to Wuhan and tell you the virus originated there, would you believe it?

Nobody in the West had any problems with the WHO before this pandemic. It only became this dishonest, corrupt a cheating institution when the virus came to their homes and ruined their pathetic little lives.

Epidemics are only fun when they only kill Africans and Asians. But God have mercy of the WHO if it let one of those viruses to touch the first layer of the skin of one Westerner...

Posted by: vk | May 28 2021 20:34 utc | 218

@ vk | May 28 2021 20:34 utc | 220

Not sure what your point is.

WHO was corrupt before and it is corrupt now. All I need to know is 2 words "Bill Gates".

(Sidebar: back in the day, say 90s, I remember memes going round 'proving' BG was satan. Some numerology BS or somesuch. How right they were!)

If WHO searches the Wuhan lab, but do not get into some parts of it (e.g. those under US military control) they can (dis) honestly say "We went, we saw, we are sure and so should you be".

I mean IAEA was corrupted, OPCW was corrupted, UN was made irrelevant. Its the MO of the rule-based brave new world.

Putin warned about this in 2007 (or 2008) at the Munich Security Conference. "Do you realize what you have done?" he asked. But it was a rethorical question. Of course they knew. Putin also knew and thanks to him now so do we.

Put any stock in what WHO says and I say you are naive. Tell me you believe in the Wuhan lab leak or the zoonotic origin malarky and I say you are naive.

Tell me it ain't so.

Posted by: B51 | May 28 2021 20:54 utc | 219

@ various posters

Injecting into muscle tissue versus blood vessel tissue is critical with these covid vaccinations. The old practice of vaccination was, “aspirate before injection,” meaning the health-care provider withdrew the jab after jabbing but before injection to ensure that he or she had jabbed muscle tissue and not some vascular tissue. If blood appeared in the syringe at the jab location upon aspiration this meant the jab had to be relocated to muscle tissue.

Some people have less muscle tissue to target with a jab so this might be a critical practice in preventing adverse reactions with this disease which targets ACE 2 receptors which are hosted by all the body organs. Muscular tissue upon jab can work up an immune response without providing, critically, access to the blood circulatory system in early stages.

This old practice of “always aspirate before injection” seems to have been discarded by modern health care workers although it has been revived in some places, like Denmark which determined injection into blood vessel tissue could be the cause of adverse reactions of covid vaccination jabs. Denmark as a consequence has mandated aspiration of vaccines starting several months ago.

When I received my jabs in early & late March and asked for aspiration both health-care workers knew what I was talking about and offered to fulfill my request. There is little more time or effort involved in aspirating before covid vaccine injection and it could prevent adverse effects.

This comment does not address other questions being raised here by some posters which range from disinformed delusional to informed concerned. The truth is imo no authorities here (USA) are telling us the truth regarding covid. It has from the beginning been a designated intel security issue, not about science, reality or public health, but about geopolitics.

We are on our own, as usual, to do the best we can do by taking whatever measures are necessary locally, collaborating, sharing evidence, and working to make a better future for us all and all sentient beings who currently inhabit this world with us.

Posted by: suzan | May 28 2021 21:20 utc | 220

@ suzan | May 28 2021 21:20 utc | 222

How right you are. The only point of (mild) disagreement, if you can call it that, is the vaccination part. I am having none of it thank you.

I don't expect to live forever, but I'll be damned before I let those greedy quacks with needles near me. FYI I reside in the EU and we don't get to choose the Sputnik vaccine therefor, no dice.

Posted by: B51 | May 28 2021 21:28 utc | 221

@vk, "Nobody in the West had any problems with the WHO before this pandemic."

What about the H5N1 hype 15 years ago? Predicting a hundred million deaths, and all that. It's been a long time, but, as I remember, some did have a problem with that.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | May 28 2021 21:29 utc | 222

Below is a quote from a ZH posting

"
America's top virologist, Anthony Fauci, argued in 2012 that the risks of a lab accident sparking a pandemic are outweighed by the potential benefits of manipulating viruses via gain-of-function research, according to previously unsurfaced remarks reported by Sharri Markson via The Australian.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 28 2021 22:48 utc | 223

Since there have been a couple of encouraging remarks about my lengthy post, and since it did not post as intended (I merely copied the copy of the original that I had put into a Libre'office file, and, apparently, some of it repeated in the body of the text, and the spaces between the paragraphs disappeared), I am daring to repost it subsequently in a more legible format.

A remark in passing... the claim that the WHO went to Wuhan and found nothing, so, that proves... what? is disingenuous at best, a blatant lie at worst. This was well over a year after the announced outbreak. The state of affairs at the Wuhan Institute of Virology could have changed drastically since the outbreak. The very idea that an investigative team could go into the lab so long after the fact and find something is downright absurd.

As for oldhippie's request regarding the sixteen nucleotides, there has been quite a bit of information, all of it scientific and needing some serious reading to be deciphered and grasped.

Specifically, already last year, a professor and biomedical researcher researcher at the University of Pittsburgh, J.J. Couey, made a series of narratives as he rode his bike out of Pittsburgh into the far suburbs. Here is the link to the first bike ride which, just now, was still working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIW3TQpVJYs

This was his most recent bike ride that I am aware of (last August): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TunB03Gg65Q&list=PLOQEt5OIWT_j-erxE2tECeyXu3lRw04SU

Couey was recently fired. He was accused of blatant racism even though he is biracial (quite dark-skinned). As he was on successive fixed-term contracts, he has almost no recourse against this abusive firing. There are other bike rides in the series, assuming that they have not been deleted.

Beyond that, the initial posting that set him going and the peer-reviewed papers that he is referring to are as follows (I have not tested the links recently):

1] Logistical and Technical Exploration into the Origins of the Wuhan Strain of Coronavirus (COVID-19)
Posted on January 31, 2020 by harvard2thebighouse
https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/01/31/logistical-and-technical-analysis-of-the-origins-of-the-wuhan-coronavirus-2019-ncov/

March 23, 2020, Monday
[2] No monkey ever reheated a frozen burrito” – What The Expanse tells us about the COVID-19 pandemic and serial passage gain-of-function research

https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/

What follows is a quick and dirty annotated bibliography that I think shows we COULD have made SARS-CoV-2.
It doesn’t prove we or anyone else made it. But it definitely shows we could. I am not saying we or anyone else would. I am not saying I know who did.
I am specifically saying that to say, “We couldn’t have made this virus” is absolutely false as best as I can tell.
I am specifically saying that we have already collected, cultured, and even made similar viruses (see below).
https://teespring.com/stores/jc-on-a-… [non-functional?]
[3] Engineering the largest RNA virus genome as an infectious bacterial artificial chromosome
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2000 May 9; 97(10): 5516–5521.
PNAS [Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America] paper 2000 showing techniques to use cDNA to generate RNA viruses:
** https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC25860/

Commentary on above:
[4] The making of infectious viral RNA: No size limit in sight
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2000 May 9; 97(10): 5025–5027.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33981/

Two papers using Ferrets for gain of function research in H5N1 flu virus:
[5] Airborne transmission of influenza A/H5N1 virus between ferrets
Science 2012 June 22; 336(6088):1534-41. – doi: 10.1126/science.1213362


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22723413/
[6] Delineation of the intimate details of the backbone conformation of pyridine nucleotide coenzymes in aqueous solution
Biochem Biophys Res Commun – 1975 Oct 27;66(4):1173-9.
doi: 10.1016/0006-291x(75)90482-9.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2/ ; same article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2…

“A few papers showing how much fun it is to collect bat viruses in the wild” (from Prof. J.J. Couey):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti… [currently not accessible, as of 2021.02.13]

[7] Bat Coronaviruses in China
Published online 2019 Mar 2. doi:10.3390/v11030210

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6466186/

(This last one uses the ACE2 receptor?! And has Peter Daszak as 2nd to last author next to Zhengli Shi bat woman of Wuhan) [but no longer accessible as of 2021.02.13]
** https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti…
Articles about the Gain-of-Function Debate, viruses as weapons:
[8] The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate
Published online 2015 Aug 18. doi: 10.1128/mBio.01013-15
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4542197/
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/… (This article quotes Osterholm about H5N1 papers above!) [unavailable as of 2021.02.21]
A few papers to start with regarding the making of our own chimeric bat coronaviruses:
[9] A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
Published: 09 November 2015
** https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985/ (Ralph Baric, Zhengli Shi/batwoman again)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti… [unavailable as of 2021.02.13]
A few papers regarding the crystallography of coronaviruses:
[10] Coronaviruses and the human airway: a universal system for virus-host interaction studies
Virol J. 2016; 13: 24. Published online 2016 Feb 6. doi: 10.1186/s12985-016-0479-5

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4744394/
(the paper with a culture prep to study viruses and lung epithelium interactions)
A couple coronavirus reviews:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti… [unavailable as of 2021.02.13]

[11] Host cell proteases: Critical determinants of coronavirus tropism and pathogenesis
Virus Res. 2015 Apr 16; 202: 120–134. Published online 2014 Nov 22. doi: 10.1016/j.virusres.2014.11.021
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4465284/

Cut and paste the following five paper link list as part of spreading the word about gain of function viral research!
This is an ultra-short smack on-point bibliography (starred papers above) that could easily be expanded to hundreds of papers:
[12] Engineering the largest RNA virus genome as an infectious bacterial artificial chromosome
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2000 May 9; 97(10): 5516–5521.
doi: 10.1073/pnas.97.10.5516
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC25860/

[13] Delineation of the intimate details of the backbone conformation of pyridine nucleotide coenzymes in aqueous solution
K S Bose, R H Sarma PMID: 2 DOI: 10.1016/0006-291x(75)90482-9
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2/ and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2… (from J.J.C.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti… [unavailable as of 2021.02.13]
J.J.C. is an academic [neuro]biologist turned bike-seat science journalist who moved to Pittsburgh in 2016. After nearly 20K miles on the streets of the City of Champions, J.C. has come to see Pittsburgh as home. Thanks for watching! Music by Joakim Karud https://youtube.com/joakimkarud

Posted by: RJPJR | May 28 2021 23:14 utc | 224

The following post appeared as @ Posted by: RJPJR | May 27 2021 14:42 utc | 81 as shown by current posts 77, 78 and 81.

It was deleted. No comment.

Lots of missing pieces in this discussion.

SARS-CoV-1 was a germ warfare agent resulting from gain-of-function work, which escaped from a lab in China in November 2002, as admitted by the WHO, off the record, which called in a team of seven world-class military germ warfare specialists from the U.K. to deal with it (from behind closed doors).

As a journalist based in Geneva and covering the WHO, I know quite a bit about it. Also, since the 1996 Bioweapons Treaty Review Conference, also in Geneva, that set up a working group to draft what turned out to be a superb legally binding protocol to the Convention (which G.W.B & C° killed at the at the last minute, making the Convention thenceforth a dead letter), I have been tracking the U.S. germ warfare program (which, officially, does not exist) for some 25 years.

The basic information on SARS-CoV-1 was given to WHO-affiliated labs in February 2003. The U.S. put the screws to the WHO to demand and get EVERYTHING that the Chinese had on the virus and the work behind it, citing its danger. China balked, but eventually gave in (much to its later regret).

The file was passed to the U.S., and the U.S. then built its gain-of-function work on what the Chinese had been doing. Later, China fought tooth and nail to install Margaret Chan as Director-General of the WHO, who obliged the Chinese by adjusting the protocol for information sharing so that no country (but specifically China) could ever again be roped into turning over everything to the WHO.

U.S. gain-of-function work was (still is?) centered on Fort Detrick with auxiliary work elsewhere, in particular at the University of North Carolina. The main actor was EcoHealth Alliance, run by Daszak and funded by money channelled by Fauci through a public-private partnership grant from his NIAID.

It is worth noting that in his recent wrangle with Senator Rand Paul, Fauci kept asserting that the NIH does not conduct, and has never conducted, gain-of-function work. Absent form his repeated assertions is any mention of his NIAID, which is nominally under the NIH but entirely independent of it, and funded independently of it by Congress. However, near the end of the wrangle, Fauci, manifestly perturbed, does slip in one mention of his NIAID side by side with the NIH in his obviously frustrated final denial ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=nsJb5PNl9PQ ).

That work was transferred to Wuhan in 2014 when Obama issued a ban on gain-of-function work, following the fiasco in western Africa from ebola weaponization work, but it returned to the U.S. in 2017 when Trump lifted the ban. So, it was centered on Wuhan for less than three years.

The ban occurred after Obama had had to be briefed on the ebola weaponization that was taking place in western Africa, for it had been judged too dangerous to be conducted on United States territory.

That work was in its final stage, and an antidote in the form of a vaccine was being prepared and administered to / tested on the uninformed Africans on the pretext that it was urgent to vaccinate them from ebola, even though ebola was not endemic to the area and its primary location was in central Africa, some four or five thousands kilometers away.

The vaccine (or "vaccine"?) turned out to be a disaster and set off a pandemic with a reported 80% mortality rate (I don’t know the final mortality rate). The U.S. responded in one of its "noblest humanitarian gestures in modern times" by sending in thousands of military to supervise the containment effort. Here in Geneva, we were briefed on this and fed the line about humanitarian response. Every question about why the U.S. was sending in military with NO pandemic training, only combat training, was met with the typical, "We are grateful for the generous support coming from the U.S., and it is not for the WHO to dictate to a WHO member state how to respond..."

It is highly unlikely that the Chinese authorities knew that the work being carried on in Wuhan with Eco-Haelth Alliance was gain-of-function. The project had its own dedicated space. The lab, under the Chinese military, was/is level four, meaning designed, built and maintained to deal with the most lethal pathogens possible (like Fort Detrick). As such it was top secret.

The Washington Post gave the game away in April of last year when it published an article about a visit to the lab by officials from the United States embassy in Beijing, during which employees confided to them that there seemed to be insufficient security in the lab.

It is inconceivable that ANY foreign officials would have been allowed in a top-secret military lab in any country. Therefore, the visit had to have taken place within a “cordoned off” section of the institute, set apart for the EcoHealth partnership venture – in other words, what was classified by the Chinese to be a non-military work area. That U.S. officials were visiting is logical since the work was U.S.-taxpayer funded.

The gain-of-function work goes back some 20 years. It is attested to in numerous peer-reviewed articles over the years boasting about the insertion of a block of 16 nucleotides identical to the 16 alien nucleotides in SARS-CoV-2, which is a sort of clone of the first SARS-CoV-2 but the result of considerably more advanced work, hence more transmissible. It is engineered to mutate and become more powerful (both more virulent and more transmissible) and is demonstrating that the work to make it more powerful has been successful to at least some extent, for it is not showing signs of petering out / abating (as natural viruses do over time), not any time soon anyway.

The leak came from Fort Detrick, outside Washington, D.C., in July 2019, at which point the CDC, up until then kept out of this level-four, top secret military installation, was called in. For the CDC to be called in, something colossal must have happened (or something posing a colossal threat). The next day, the whole place was shut down, locked with reinforced "security" and everybody (700+ employees in the central lab) on paid furlough for months. The first cases of what we now call covid-19 occurred the next month (August), also in the Washington, D.C., area.

The virus has been found to have been in northeast Spain and northern Italy in September 2019, both areas with direct flights to Washington. In October, the U.S. sent over 300 military to Wuhan for the World Military Games, several of whom were so sick that they had to be hospitalized upon arrival. The Chinese doctors (among the best in the county, hence in the world), put at the disposal of the athletes by the host country, were flummoxed and could diagnose only "atypical pneumonia" (to wit it looks like pneumonia, but we don't really know what it is), the same diagnosis of the cases in the Washington area. (By the way, the U.S. teams were lodged in a hotel next to the now (in)famous wet market.)

The whole gang was repatriated under a military medical evacuation to the Barksdale (Louisiana) military base, the most secure in the world (where G.W.B. was taken on the morning of 11 September 2001) some fifteen or sixteen hours flying time. Later, in the beginning of 2020, there were two pandemic epicenters in the U.S.: the New York City area and Louisiana. The latter rapidly disappeared from all corporate media coverage. The evacuation took place without the Chinese public health authorities being notified, in violation of the International Health Regulations.

Event 201 (19 October 2019) was obviously intended to prepare for the worst, although it was entirely oriented to the "private" (corporate) sector and to “responses” that would make money for the corporatocracy, with remarkable little attention to basic public health considerations. Trump put paid to any such plan with his imperative, "Don't spook the markets!"

Note that it was the Chinese who mapped the genome and promptly published it (12 January 2020). If it had been mapped in the U.S., it would have been locked up under intellectual property rights protection, and the public would not have had access to it until/unless some other country, with the means, mapped it and published it.

Everything I have seen in my efforts to track this affair since December 2019 says that the Chinese were caught off guard and, upon realizing the seriousness of the situation, believed that they were under attack.

The disarray in Washington was obvious, for they were in a bind: Trump & C° were opposed to taking the decisive action that the situation required for that would let it be known that something seriously disruptive was threatening, and the Pentagon has over the years steadfastly refused to admit that it has a germ warfare program in flagrant violation of its commitments under the Bioweapons Treaty that it has effectively neutered but still pays lip-service to. The result was paralysis, contradictions and confusion, all amplified by the confederacy of dunces in the White House.

Look at Taiwan's response to see what could have been done: for 23+ million people, with close ties to China (notwithstanding the constant tension between the two countries), they have 6,761 confirmed cases (through reliable testing) owing to a recent outbreak, with 59 deaths, 2 per million as opposed to the U.S. (Until just the recent outbreak, it was .3 per million.) The U.S. can boast 1,822 deaths per million.

Any discussion of mortality is premature as long as the virus is still circulating and killing. Any mention of covid-19 as a "flu" is absurd: flu does not leave one with permanent lung damage, nor permanent heart damage, nor permanent brain damage, nor permanent muscle damage, nor permanent liver damage, nor permanent kidney damage... nor chronic fatigue. I speak from my own experience and from that of some several dozen friends and acquaintances.

I hope this fills in some of the missing pieces.

Posted by: RJPJR | May 28 2021 23:31 utc | 225

@RJPJR, 227

Thanks for that detailed and informative post.

Covid-19 is a serious endothelial disease which can have the outcomes you describe. However, that is the second stage of the disease process. If SARS-CoV-2 is treated early with an oral, sequenced, multi-drug regimen, there can be a good prognosis and the disease does not progress to the second stage. For example, this is an interview with Professor Thomas Borody on the efficacy of treatment involving ivermectin - https://covexit.com/we-know-its-curable-its-easier-than-treating-the-flu-professor-thomas-borody/.

Posted by: cirsium | May 29 2021 0:20 utc | 226

Posted by: cirsium | May 29 2021 0:20 utc | 228

Thanks very much for the remark and the link. That is exactly what they have been doing in Taiwan, in Cuba, in Vietnam...

Posted by: RJPJR | May 29 2021 0:49 utc | 227

Below is a Xinhuanet posting

"
BEIJING, May 28 (Xinhua) -- The United States seems to have launched a fresh campaign to try its old ploy of "weapons-of-mass-destruction-in-Iraq" in tracing the origin of the coronavirus. This time, Washington's plot will simply fail.

In recent days, the United States has renewed its efforts to hype up the lab leak conspiracy theory with the same old lies and malicious intentions, exposing once again Washington's recklessness and hubris.

The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) fired the first shot. In a recent article, it hinted a far-fetched connection between "sick staff" of a Wuhan lab and the COVID-19 outbreak. Yet the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which had not been exposed to the virus before Dec. 30, 2019, has not registered any infection among its staff and graduate students.

Then Dr. Anthony Fauci, White House chief medical advisor, shifted his long-held position by saying that he was "not convinced" that the virus developed naturally. And on Wednesday the current U.S. administration announced a new probe into virus origin.

Those moves smell like a case of deja vu, reminding people of the days before the 2003 Iraqi war, when Washington concocted lies about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and used those outright lies as an excuse to invade the country, topple its government, and slaughter its people.

It is also noteworthy that Michael R. Gordon, the reporter who penned the WSJ report, had made up a 2002 New York Times report supportive of the existence of WMD program in Iraq.

The old trick is back again when a new session of the World Health Assembly (WHA) is underway. Their ulterior motive in hijacking the meeting's agenda and politicizing the origin tracing so as to build up international pressure on China is only too blatant.

Origin tracing is a serious and complex scientific issue. The task should only be done based on science and facts. There is mounting evidence that the virus was transmitted from animals to humans without human intervention. This is a natural phenomenon that has occurred frequently in recent decades.

The tracing should also be led by the World Health Organization (WHO); and more importantly, it must be a professional, impartial, constructive, and free from politics or presumption of guilt directed against China.

China has, as always, been open to joint efforts by the international science community to identify the sources of the virus. In January, the China-WHO joint mission visited local biosafety labs and centers for disease control, and had in-depth and candid exchanges with experts there.

Members of the mission have unanimously agreed that the hypothesis of lab leaking is "extremely unlikely."

The work to trace the virus' origin should not be confined to China either. Several reports and studies have already showed that the virus may have appeared in many places around the world as early as the second half of 2019. Now that China's part of the investigation has finished, it is time for other countries, including the United States, to actively cooperate with the WHO.

In the final analysis, the purpose of the virus origin study is not to attribute blame, but to find convincing answers to where the virus came from so that humanity can better deal with those microbes for its collective health in the future.

And for those in the United States seeking to plot against China and truth, it is wishful thinking to impose unfounded charges on China as they once did on Iraq. Any such attempt is unavailing.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 29 2021 4:27 utc | 228

@ RJPJR | May 28 2021 23:14 utc | 226

Many thanks for the info.
I notice that many of the papers (?) you link to are unavailable as of 13-02-2021.

I wonder if there is something special with that date. Can't recall anything in particular. Just a coincidence or a deadline?

Keep it coming.

Posted by: B51 | May 29 2021 6:39 utc | 229

One consideration that has always counted against the lab leak hypothesis for me is this: why would the Chinese put a secret virus in a lab designed by the US and France as the Wuhan Institute of Virology was and has scientists from all over the world visit? And why would they keep this virus a secret while they've published data on other viruses they found? If they had a secret virus that they knew was dangerous and wanted it to remain secret, wouldn't they hide it in some secret location away from prying eyes?

But if I wanted to undermine China's rise, on the other hand, saw this as #1 agenda for a rising superpower against a falling empire, I would try to do it economically first and foremost by tarnishing the China "brand". Releasing what I know would damage the whole world but blame it on China seems like economic warfare with bioweapons and it's straight up the US govt's gambit. Sure there will be blowback but the resulting PR campaign victory will be worth the price. This is how the sociopaths inside the pentagon and spy agencies think.

Posted by: Doryphore | May 29 2021 7:27 utc | 230

@ Doryphore | May 29 2021 7:27 utc | 232

As has been argued by some: the Wuhan lab only needs to have a section cordonned off under the control of the US and not China (as per the multitude of biolabs in ex-soviet republics) and you have all the ingredients for deniable leaks.
If such an area existed in Wuhan that is the whole cassus belli, the smoking gun or whatever. According to current judicial standards that's like proof...

Posted by: B51 | May 29 2021 7:36 utc | 231

RJPJR @May28 23:31 #227

Thanks for re-posting. I copied both your posts this time.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 29 2021 12:07 utc | 232

Don't know if this has been linked to already...are these the droids you were looking for?

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/virologists-claim-fingerprints-manipulation-prove-covid-19-man-made-no-credible-natural


British professor Angus Dalgleish - best known for creating the world's first 'HIV vaccine', and Norwegian virologist Dr. Birger Sørensen - chair of pharmaceutical company, Immunor, who has published 31 peer-reviewed papers and holds several patents, wrote that while analyzing virus samples last year, the pair discovered "unique fingerprints" in the form of "six inserts" created through gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China.

They also conclude that "SARS-Coronavirus-2 has "no credible natural ancestor" and that it is "beyond reasonable doubt" that the virus was created via "laboratory manipulation."

Posted by: librul | May 29 2021 15:38 utc | 233

I just had a seemingly random thought. Has Benford's Law ever been applied to the analysis of DNA/RNA, etc?

Posted by: librul | May 29 2021 16:07 utc | 234

@ Posted by: librul | May 29 2021 15:38 utc | 233

Nah. Those two researchers are talking nonsense. The arguments are risible. And they even contradict themselves at the end, telling the journalist the Wuhan lab destroyed all the evidence. Absence of evidence is not evidence.

If Dr. Sørensen wants to win the scientific argument, he should do so through the proper scientific channels, not by throwing shit on the fan in a random newspaper.

Posted by: vk | May 29 2021 16:23 utc | 235

@Posted by: vk | May 29 2021 16:23 utc | 235

Nah. [speaks for itself]


Those two researchers are talking nonsense. [ad hominem]

The arguments are risible. [see above]


And they even contradict themselves at the end [red herring]

, telling the journalist the Wuhan lab destroyed all the evidence. [show me]


Absence of evidence is not evidence. [cliche]

If Dr. Sørensen wants to win the scientific argument, he should do so through the proper scientific channels, not by throwing shit on the fan in a random newspaper. [See below]

["DailyMail.com exclusively obtained the new 22-page paper authored by British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen set to be published in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery"]

Posted by: librul | May 29 2021 16:59 utc | 236

@ librul | May 29 2021 16:59 utc | 236 with the perfect characterization of the ongoing BS at MoA from vk

LOL!!!! Thanks for that. What percentage of MoA comments does vk BS represent on an ongoing basis and why does b allow it?


Ah well, the dog barked and caravan rolled on

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 29 2021 17:10 utc | 237

@ Posted by: librul | May 29 2021 16:59 utc | 236

Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery

Yep, that's a respectable publication...

Charlatans and opportunists are raining down over the West these days. A 22-page paper solving the entire mystery of the SARS-CoV-2, amazing discovery...

You do not expect me to do a complete review of the guys' arguments here, do you? Since you're the one who linked the whole thing, I assumed you've already read it.

Posted by: vk | May 29 2021 17:26 utc | 238

@ vk | May 29 2021 17:26 utc | 238 and others:

FWIW Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery is a Cambridge UP journal. It employs an "open peer review" process, i.e., the authors know who the reviewers are and vice-versa; the reviewers' comments are published along with the article. This has its advantages and disadvantages; but then, so does the blind peer review process.

Posted by: corvo | May 29 2021 17:49 utc | 239

librul@236 doesn't know what an ad hominem fallacy is. It is not asserting that an argument is "nonsense" or "risible," it's implying their arguments don't even need to be addressed because the one who made them is somehow a bad person. The favorite ad hominem fallacy here at MoA is dismissing commenters as hasbara, or trolls, or plants, saying their agents. Perhaps the second favorite is invoking "mockingbird" media, or simply the acronym MSM.

In amateur conversation, suddenly posing as the judge who has the right to demand documentation for statements is pretty common...but it's not a logical fallacy to not write a legal brief instead of a comment. Self-contradiction is not a red herring, either. Whether or not a statement is a cliche, this is a criticism of style, not a logical argument, much less identification of a logical fallacy. Criticizing style, grammar, punctuation and spelling are usually indicators the hostile responder has no arguments for rebuttal.

The general presumption that labs have awesome powers to create lethal forms of life, including viruses, are SF horror stories taken as real life. It is hysteria in the service of conspiracy theory (which generally has a malignant political motive, almost invariably right wing. There is a lot more nature, inconceivably more nature than labs. Novel forms of death like covid 19 are vastly more probable to have arisen naturally, however improbably, because there are vastly more trials by nature. New DNA sequences may be intrinsically improbable, yes. So What? It's like noticing that winning the lottery is intrinsically improbable, while ignoring how many tickets you buy. If you buy a millions tickets, the chances of winning (or losing in the natural case of zoonotic diseases,) are not so "improbable." My prescription for the most painless cure for this is to read Jordan Ellenberg, How Not To Be Wrong. (No, buy the book so you can re-read it.)

Posted by: steven t johnson | May 29 2021 18:05 utc | 240

@Posted by: steven t johnson | May 29 2021 18:05 utc | 240

steven t johnson [bypass sign]

Posted by: librul | May 29 2021 18:11 utc | 241

It is amazing how many people suddenly discover that being snarky or badass--basically, cool---makes up for an inadequate grasp of reality and inferior powers of reason. Yet, it's still true that librul doesn't even know what an ad hominem fallacy is.

Gain of function studies are new technology, not magic, neither black magic nor white magic. The conspiracists don't have any numerate grasp of the fundamental probabilities, just vague fears. A long term habit of mutual self-congratulations in a website claque makes you meaner, not smarter.

Posted by: steven t johnson | May 29 2021 18:25 utc | 242

@ Posted by: corvo | May 29 2021 17:49 utc | 239

It was also created in February 2020 - the month of the beginning of the pandemic.

Very suspicious to me - specially if you know how academia works.

Cambridge is a very big university. It doesn't know what happens inside every department. Once it relocates the funding, it loses control of what is produced and investigated.

This is fishy. Looks like a bunch of fifth category nobodies used the opportunity of the pandemic to snatch some extra funding (and extra independence, which begets more extra funding). This is more common than many people think, and is not restricted to humanities - it also happens a lot in hard sciences and biological sciences (including outright data falsification for publication in order keep the funding going).

But if the article is legit (I don't think it is, outside the realm of the pure formality of the academic world), it's just one paper in a sea of papers corroborating with the zoonotic origin hypothesis.

Biological and medical sciences are not hard sciences. They operate not by absolute, mathematical conclusions, but by overwhelming circumstantial evidence, i.e. consensus. There are no Albert Einsteins in biological science, that's not how it works.

As for the argumentation of the researchers (as based on their interview, because we don't have their paper yet), there are a lot of contradictions there:

1) they claim the "SARS-Coronavirus-2 has no credible natural ancestor". That's pure survivor bias: the virus evolved and, against everything and everyone, managed to penetrate through the human social defenses to become a pandemic. It is given we don't know its immediate successors because we were blind-sighted by it. Every pandemic only becomes a pandemic because humans didn't know it was coming - otherwise, China and the WHO would have stifled it before it even reached epidemic levels;

2) Dr. Dalgleish claimed "The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row [...] The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it". But if it is physically impossible to happen, then it cannot be engineered, as engineering can only obey the laws of physics;

3) they induce the reader to think gain of function is THE genetic engineering. It is not;

4) they claim "For a year we have possessed prima facie evidence of retro-engineering in China in early 2020." Are they referring to the fact the Chinese mapped the genome of the virus and publicized it at the end of January (January 30th) and warned the WHO? That is beyond insanity if they are;

5) they make it look like gain of function is some kind of borderline criminal and underground methodology of scientific investigation, when it is not;

6) their only explanation for the WHO team not finding anything in the Wuhan lab was the "deliberate destruction, concealment or contamination of data" and that "Chinese scientists who wished to share their knowledge have not been able to do so or have disappeared." They cannot prove the first, and we know the second statement is false. In fact, such kind of direct accusations is astonishing in an alleged peer-reviewed newspaper, no, it's unprecedented. This part alone would disqualify the paper for approval in a scientific journal, regardless of the field of study;

7) after the bestial accusation against China, they future-proof themselves with the claim that "It appears that preserved virus material and related information have been destroyed. Therefore we are confronted with large gaps in data which may never be filled". Again, absence of evidence presented as evidence. This is that famous "I'm preventing myself from being sued" line.

Posted by: vk | May 29 2021 18:36 utc | 243

@ vk | May 29 2021 18:36 utc | 243:

It was also created in February 2020 - the month of the beginning of the pandemic.

Very suspicious to me - specially if you know how academia works.

Sorry, I can't agree with you on this. Academic journals are not founded in a matter of days or weeks, not even if they are -- as this one is -- spinoffs from preexisting journals. There's simply too much bureaucracy involved.

This doesn't mean your seven points aren't worth considering; they certainly are. It also doesn't mean that peer-reviewed journals, even in the hard sciences, don't publish mountains of crap; they certainly do.

Posted by: corvo | May 29 2021 19:45 utc | 244

@ Posted by: corvo | May 29 2021 19:45 utc | 244

It was part of the QRB until February 2020, when it was dismembered and transformed into a brand new (i.e. independent) publication.

The timing looks very suspicious to me. My sixth sense tells me they dismembered it at the beginning of the pandemic in order to protect the reputation of the QRB, i.e. the QRBD was created with the specific purpose to serve as a propaganda warfare instrument, where every conspiracy theory against China can be published with little blow back to the department as a whole.

Posted by: vk | May 29 2021 20:14 utc | 245

@ vk | May 29 2021 20:14 utc | 245

The timing looks very suspicious to me. My sixth sense tells me they dismembered it at the beginning of the pandemic in order to protect the reputation of the QRB, i.e. the QRBD was created with the specific purpose to serve as a propaganda warfare instrument, where every conspiracy theory against China can be published with little blow back to the department as a whole.

If this is true, the journal is failing miserably, as only four of the nine articles in volume 1 pertain to COVID-19 at all, and only the one article in question arguably meets the criterion of "conspiracy theory against China." Neither of the two articles released for volume 2 pertain to COVID-19 at all.

Posted by: corvo | May 29 2021 20:38 utc | 246

There is a bioweapon-shaped hole in the public information jigsaw puzzle about the pandemic. The Mockingbird mass media has embraced the lab-origin narrative after more than a year of dismissing it as crazy conspiracy theory, which means that the "Mighty Wurlitzer" (CIA) has changed the tune. If they have changed the tune that means the original narrative is failing and they have to move on to Plan B, which is to acknowledge that the virus is a laboratory creation, but insist that it was somehow created in China.

Aside: As to the motive-revealing argument that novel viruses cannot be made in the lab, it is actually an active field of study, with novel viruses regularly being created: Synthetic Virology. To argue that it is impossible is just blowing smoke.

The Mockingbird mass media abandoning the zoonotic-origin narrative means that narrative is destined to become extinct. Sadly, there is insufficient support of a counter-narrative in the West to the Chinese lab leak notion that also includes lab-origin to make headway in public discourse. For obvious reasons (Wuhan Institute of Virology never had any SARS-CoV-2 virus samples documented) the Chinese lab leak story is false, but without a competing lab-origin narrative it will be accepted by default. Of course eventually that narrative too will fail, but by then the Chinese lab leak story will be perceived as canon by the western public.

Oh well, I tried, but my soapbox isn't very tall and my megaphone's batteries are old and weak. The CIA winning this round of narrative control won't change the underlying economic dynamics that drive history, only move us closer to the inevitable conclusion of the Thucydides Trap. The only thing that can prevent that grim conclusion is if the population in the West rises up to stop it. That seems unlikely, but the working class has surprised everyone in the past.

Posted by: William Gruff | May 29 2021 21:14 utc | 247

@William Gruff

The magic codeword is EVALI.

Posted by: Lurk | May 29 2021 21:29 utc | 248

Oh, and when the public at large catches onto EVALI, just sit back and watch the tools coming to MoA posting "them coronavirus laced thc vape cartridges back then must have been cheap imports from chyynna!"

Posted by: Lurk | May 29 2021 21:33 utc | 249

@Posted by: vk | May 29 2021 18:36 utc | 243

Just because you had a lot to say doesn't necessarily mean that
you said anything.

1) they claim the "SARS-Coronavirus-2 has no credible natural ancestor". That's pure survivor bias: the virus evolved and, against everything and everyone, managed to penetrate through the human social defenses to become a pandemic.
[You simply offer an alternative theory]

2) Dr. Dalgleish claimed "The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row [...] The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it".
But if it is physically impossible to happen, then it cannot be engineered, as engineering can only obey the laws of physics;
[You are quibbling. Obviously they meant "The laws of physics in vivo".]

3) they induce the reader to think gain of function is THE genetic engineering. It is not;
[that is a red herring and also, possibly, a straw man]

4) they claim "For a year we have possessed prima facie evidence of retro-engineering in China in early 2020."
Are they referring to the fact the Chinese mapped the genome of the virus and publicized it at the end of January (January 30th) and warned the WHO? That is beyond insanity if they are;
[that would be a straw man except that you posed it as a question]

5) they make it look like gain of function is some kind of borderline criminal and underground methodology of scientific investigation, when it is not;
[Given that the worldwide effect has been Massive the pair asked ****which type**** of gain of function is acceptable. They didn't do a blanket condemnation
as you suggested: "'The implication of our historical reconstruction,
we posit now beyond reasonable doubt, of the purposively manipulated chimeric virus SARS-CoV-2
makes it imperative to reconsider what types of Gain of Function experiments it is morally acceptable to undertake."]

6) their only explanation for the WHO team not finding anything in the Wuhan lab was the "deliberate destruction, concealment or contamination of data"
and that "Chinese scientists who wished to share their knowledge have not been able to do so or have disappeared."
[I find no referrence to WHO in the linked article, are you conflating articles that you have read?]

7)after the bestial accusation against China, they future-proof themselves with the claim that
"It appears that preserved virus material and related information have been destroyed. Therefore we are confronted with large gaps in data which may never be filled".
Again, absence of evidence presented as evidence. This is that famous "I'm preventing myself from being sued" line.
[You conveniently stopped short in what they had to say: "We employ an active scientific logic....................."
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/43563261-9629563-DailyMail_com_exclusively_obtained_the_22_page_paper_which_is_se-a-43_1622235063367.jpg?itok=ZEhCnBv5
]

ps.

Note that the article also says this:

"Last year, Sørensen told Norwegian broadcaster NRK that COVID-19 has properties which have 'never been detected in nature,'
and that the United States has 'collaborated for many years on coronavirus research through "gain of function" studies with China."


Posted by: librul | May 29 2021 21:56 utc | 250

William Gruff@247 blows smoke with wikipedia. "The ability to synthesize viruses has far-reaching consequences, since viruses can no longer be regarded as extinct, as long as the information of their genome sequence is known and permissive cells are available." The phrase "as long as" gives away that synthesizing a virus refers to creating a re-creating a known virus in a lab without a sample infecting a living cell. But the claim here is that somebody theoretically engineered a novel virus from basically their imagination, from theoretical principles and computers models presumably. But this is sort of thing is dialogue from a Star Trek series.

I suppose it's theoretically possible for William Gruff to write a sensible comment too.

Posted by: steven t johnson | May 29 2021 22:58 utc | 251

@ Posted by: librul | May 29 2021 21:56 utc | 250

You conveniently stopped short in what they had to say: "We employ an active scientific logic..."

No. Either you have documental evidence the Wuhan lab destroyed this evidence or you don't. This is the field of History, not Biology. You can't quantum leap from a strictly biological theory to a strictly historical conclusion. If your theory states the SARS-CoV-2 was bioengineered, then that's it. You can't infer from that property that the virus was precisely bioengineered in the Wuhan lab (i.e. it could have been any lab).

Just because you're in an interdisciplinary area ("Biophysics" is what they call it), it doesn't mean you can freely mix up anything you want from whatever area you want only to fit in your chimerical hypothesis. This is science, not jazz: there can't be any improvisation. In my academic life, the worst shit I've ever come up with were from those interdisciplinary programs/departments. Multidisciplinarity/Interdisciplinarity is a monumental failure: it's one of those ideas that sound good but don't really work in practice. Science is specialization, not free association.

Even then, you just can't use that language in a scientific paper. They are openly accusing the government of a sovereign nation of bioengineering, releasing and then covering its trail in the conclusion of a peer-reviewed paper; with a very vulgar language, to top it off. I don't know if the paper already is peer-reviewed and is already going to be published or if it is still going through revision, but I would be astonished if a serious peer-reviewed publication allowed such language, let alone the non-biological conclusion of a biology paper (which is not even Biology per se, it's "Biophysics", which seems to be some kind of interdisciplinary area in some universities).

Western experts usually reserve their bile and propaganda for their books. They like to keep a very formal and neutral language in their peer-reviewed papers. That's the smart route, as it is your scientific baggage that leverages your propaganda power in the mass editorial market. There are exceptions to the rule, of course: it is accepted in academia to use Cold War propagandistic terminology against the Soviet Union and other communist regimes even though they're not historically precise (i.e. they're propaganda); a Westerner can easily defend his Ph.D. thesis with "Stalin was a bloodthirsty dictator", "the USSR was a horrible totalitarian regime" without any difficulties and without arising any strangeness. But that's the exception to the rule, a case that offends the West so much that even the most coldly rational Western historian cannot be neutral to (even though it is a lie). Those two guys are breaking the rule: they're starting to give the USSR treatment to China, by badmouthing it even in a strictly peer-reviewed environment.

Of course, there's always the possibility the Daily Mail journalist lied (possible, considering it's the Daily Mail), but the article clearly states it was quoting the paper directly in that part.

We'll see when the paper is published. My advice to Dr.s Daelglish and Sørensen are for the removal of the conclusion, which does not refer to their hypothesis and is heavily politicized, ideologized and attention-seeking (i.e. funding seeking). I will still not respect Biophysics, let alone their "hypothesis", but I understand they feel some urgency to advance their careers and that censoring them would cause more damage to the scientific community than by allowing it (without that crazy accusation of China, of course - that childish language wouldn't even pass the undergraduate monograph level).

--//--

Related:

Biden Cynically Politicizes Lab-Leak Theory to Bash China

I don't know what's the case for the American people, but from here, the rest of the world, the situation of the Biden government is very clear: it bet the family's cow on a super duper mass vaccination campaign that would trigger an economic boom in the American economy (that would, at the same time, cock-block the Democratic Socialist proposals and somehow contain the Trumpist tide in the next mid-term elections, where the democrats are projected to lose at least the Senate).

It didn't work for many reasons:

1) the mass vaccination program didn't work: at least one fifth of the American adult population doesn't want to get vaccinated in the first place, and the absence of a centralized, universal healthcare system created a chaotic logistic, where some regions have a mountain of excess doses (which will have to be discarded; you can't simply re-route them) while many others have zero;

2) the economic theory that based the premise an economic boom would happen (Keynesian, Post-Keynesian and MMT) is failed by design and is not scientifically valid. Biden's guys in the Fed etc. (Yellen, Powell) promised him inflation wouldn't happen and yet it happened. For now, what's keeping the USA in one piece are the pandemic checks (USD 600.00 - USD 1,300.00, depending if you're married with kids or not). As long as these checks keep their purchasing power (the USD is still in a very good shape; the Dollar Standard will continue to exist for a long time), the populace probably won't care about what those bourgeois experts are vomiting to Biden's ears. However, if inflation continues to rise, that may not be the case anymore;

3) the economic boom isn't happening. One of the problems is directly related to #2: the American lumpenproletariat was so piss poor that they actually became richer with the pandemic checks (35% richer, on average!). That means they prefer to keep themselves unemployed, receiving the checks - they may be stupid, but they have survival instinct. As a result, people don't want to get back to work. This generated a bizarre scenario in the USA, where unemployment is going up while the number or workers (economically active population) is going down. The problem is you can't produce wealth without workers.

As a result, Biden can do not other thing than to revive Trump's old conspiracy theories. That's literally his last ace in the hole. To make things even worse, the Chinese juggernaut has warmed up and surpassed the 600 million inoculated doses (100 million in the last week alone) after a slow start (up to March 2021, the number of vaccinated in China was negligible). I bet the WaPo has regretted putting that lamentable chart of vaccinated in the USA now.

Posted by: vk | May 29 2021 23:07 utc | 252

I disagree with vk on some of the points about the pandemic, but the poster is absolutely correct about the problem with a supposedly peer-reviewed paper making remarkably specific yet unfounded claims. It is one thing to claim that the virus looks to be engineered. It is an entirely different thing to say that virus looks like it was engineered at Wuhan Institute of Virology. The former you can approach with generalizations and conclude that additional study is required, while the latter absolutely requires very, very strong evidence, which in this case has never existed.

Posted by: William Gruff | May 30 2021 0:55 utc | 253

I support the teory of a biological on China attack gone A++-Backwards as Ron Unz, from the Unz Report states in several articles

https://www.unz.com/announcement/breaking-the-silence-on-the-origins-of-covid-19/

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-truth-and-the-whole-truth-on-the-origins-of-covid-19/

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/

https://www.unz.com/article/was-coronavirus-a-biowarfare-attack-against-china/


All this chit-chat about Fauci and his "Gain of Function" research subcontracted to China is only a cover up of these facts. This is my humble opinion which I put to your consideration.

Posted by: Dodgone | May 30 2021 8:21 utc | 254

@Dodgone | May 30 2021 8:21 utc | 254

The highly underreported or even suppressed facts seem to indicate that the coronavirus was making the rounds in many places worldwide before the Chinese reported its appearance in Wuhan.

At the time when the Chinese started seeing cases, more than 1% of blood donors in a USA sample tested positive for antibodies against sars-cov-2. In the preceding 6 months, mysteriously misdirecting EVALI and "a bad flu season" had caused many deaths in the USA.

These circumstances make me conclude that the new coronavirus most likely first emerged in the USA.

On several earlier threads I have speculated that the US government has seeded the new coronavirus in Wuhan with several possible objectives. Alas, b has for some reason memoryholed all these posts.

The motivations for the USA's hypothetical stealth spreading are clear. Obviously it has been attempting to shift the public blame to China, both for internal and external consumption. The response of the home voters to the truth about the virus' origins could severely destabilize the USA political scene. Internationally the diplomatic lashback would severely damage the USA's leverage in international matters.

And imagine if the coronavirus emergence in the USA had been truthfully reported in early 2019. Soon, the USA would have been cordonned off by the entire world. Just think about the effects of an international quarantaine against the USA. What about all those military bases the USA has sprawled around the world?

Obviously, if sars-cov-2 escaped from Ft Detrick, the USA military and government have been motivated to act precicely the way they have acted. I see no failure to repond, but a precisely executed mitigation operation. Even Donald J Trump played his role as the fumbling bumbler convincingly.

Posted by: Lurk | May 30 2021 10:06 utc | 255

Research on Highly Pathogenic H5N1 Influenza Virus: The Way Forward by Antony S. Fauci in 2012. He wrote he wanted a public debate about the risk/benefits, but published it only in a scientific niche journal mBio. That was before this research was moved from the US to Wuhan, China's first (=unexperienced) BSL 4 lab.

Not a conspiracy by one country but a risky gamble by a few scientists from two nations. NIH funded a few papers about this risk analysis,like this one calculation the chance of a pandemic from a lab escape to only 0.6%: you get what you pay for in much of today's science.

Posted by: Antonym | May 31 2021 12:56 utc | 256

The only other article I've read taking a critical view of the new rebirth of the lab-leak theory is a good one by David Cole ... https://www.takimag.com/article/house-of-faucistein/

Posted by: Allan Davis | May 31 2021 22:09 utc | 257

@Allan Davis | May 31 2021 22:09 utc | 257

That shoddy writeup is not critical at all. It is just a partisan rant that repeats the lying propaganda that the coronavirus first surfaced in Wuhan.

That falsity has been proven to be untrue many times already. One example is that blood samples taken in various states of the USA at the very same time when the Chinese first identified sars-cov-2 in Wuhan show that already more than 1% of USA blood donor samples had antibodies against sars-cov-2.

Statistically, more than 300,000 Americans had antibodies against the new coronavirus by the time it was first reported in Wuhan. THAT is the bombshell that cannot be spoken about in the USA media, both mainstream and alternative.

Posted by: Lurk | May 31 2021 22:49 utc | 258

If you've been paying attention to the Fauci emails, this post didn't age well at all. Fauci's own people expressed that Covid looked man made back in early 2020. Still a hypothesis, but more likely than not. It's not about blaming China for me, esp when you consider the culpability of Fauci, Daszak, Baric, etc. I enjoy this blog & really appreciate the pushback on US empire, but think you should leave science alone. Saying that as a biochemist.

Posted by: Beau | Jun 4 2021 13:45 utc | 259

SCIENCE WRAPPED IN SINOPHOBIC HATE SPEECH?

I have read through 200 pages of analysis and accusation by Dr. Steven Quay, where he argues that the SARS-CoV-2 was created in Wuhan at the Wuhan Institute of Virology laboratory. He presents a strong scientific argument that the virus is man-made. I made many of the same arguments a year ago.

The accusation against the Wuhan virus lab and Dr. Zheng-li Shi are however largely fraudulent. Dr. Quay misattributes research and experiments done in the United States as being done in Wuhan, China. Yes, Dr. Shi and WIV are credited in some of the most controversial gain-of-study papers, but her role is stated as only providing the natural virus genomes the American scientist worked on.

The SARS-CoV-2 genome suggests it was created in some top secret military bioweapons laboratory like Fort Detrick. No evidence of this work or the precursor virus exist in public scientific literature. Working secretly on a secret virus genome would be highly unethical and indicative of a bioweapons program.

There is no evidence that any bioweapons lab ever existed in Wuhan. The Wuhan Institute of Virology is a civilian institution, completely transparent and open to Americans. Much of its funding came from the US government.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 8 2021 1:41 utc | 260

@ 260 petri... thanks for sharing all that..

Posted by: james | Jun 9 2021 2:46 utc | 261

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