Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 15, 2021

U.S. And Its Five Eye Partners Use 'Persuasion', Sabotage And Disinformation To Gain Vaccine Supremacy

The U.S. and some of its allies are engaged in efforts to malign the Russian Sputink V vaccine and to promote the more expensive mRNA vaccines produced by 'western' companies.

Back in November we warned that the vaccine competition would be ruthless:

The mRNA vaccines hyped in the U.S. media are simply too expensive to be used around the world. If we want to limit the global effects of the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic we will have to use the cheaper vector based vaccines.

That the AstraZeneka vaccine was immediately attacked in U.S. media by an unqualified writer quoting an investment bank and the U.S. pharma promoting (Remdesivir!) Antony Fauci is quite suspicious. Pfizer and Moderna expect to make billions of dollars with their vaccines. They will use all possible ways and means to defeat any potential competition.

Vladimir Putin, the President of Russia, recently noted how unfair competition practices are used to keep some vaccines away from nations who urgently need it:

Producers are struggling for the global vaccine market worth $100 billion, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday.

Some producers compete unfairly, sell a small batch of vaccines at a lower price on the condition to be an exclusive supplier, Putin said, speaking at a video meeting on measures to boost investment activity in Moscow.

"We see how competitors behave in the global vaccine market worth $100 billion. They come, sell a small batch of their vaccine at a discount, on the condition that everything else will be purchased only from this producer," he said.

To no one's astonishment the U.S. government is directly involved in manipulations of vaccine accessibility. As Brazil Wire found:

The US Department of Health and Human Services recently published its Annual Report for 2020.

“2020 was one of the most challenging years in the history of our country and in the history of the Department of Health and Human Services”, former US Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar introduces the report.

“There is an end to the pandemic in sight”, he continues, “with the delivery of safe and effective vaccines through Operation Warp Speed”.

Tucked away on page 48, the report shockingly reveals how the US pressured Brazil to reject Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine.

The HHS Annual Report is here. On page 5 it says:

Developing a strategy for supporting global vaccine access: HHS’s Office of Global Affairs (OGA) led the development of an interagency strategy, coordinated through the National Security Council, to provide international access to COVID-19 vaccines once domestic needs are met.

"Once domestic needs are met" is certainly not an altruistic or even reasonably prioritizing strategy one should be proud of. A sensible effort to save lives and to end the pandemic would prioritize risk groups in every country of this planet before inoculating people at home who have little risk of serious Covid-19 complications.

On page 47 the HHS report notes that the U.S. is coordinating with its Five Eyes spy partners on vaccine 'messaging':

Combating vaccine hesitancy globally: OGA leads a group of the Five Eyes countries (U.K., Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United States) on vaccine confidence, aligning our nations’ efforts and sharing best practices to enhance vaccine confidence messaging globally.

One page on we learn what such communication entails:

Combatting [sic!] malign influences in the Americas: OGA used diplomatic relations in the Americas region to mitigate efforts by states, including Cuba, Venezuela, and Russia, who are working to increase their influence in the region to the detriment of US safety and security. OGA coordinated with other U.S. government agencies to strengthen diplomatic ties and offer technical and humanitarian assistance to dissuade countries in the region from accepting aid from these ill-intentioned states. Examples include using OGA’s Health Attaché office to persuade Brazil to reject the Russian COVID-19 vaccine, and offering CDC technical assistance in lieu of Panama accepting an offer of Cuban doctors.

"To persuade Brazil to reject the Russian COVID-19 vaccine" is, simply said, criminal behavior that has near genocidal consequences. Brazil is currently getting swamped with a more infectious variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus and its medical institutions are near a breakdown:

“It feels like we’re putting a Band-Aid on a bullet wound,” said Eduarda Santa Rosa Barata, a 31-year-old infectologist who works in three ICUs in the north-eastern capital of Pernambuco state, all now stretched to the limit. “We’re engaged in damage reduction … You open new beds and they fill up immediately.”

A few days earlier, Barata had admitted a 37-year-old man who had no underlying medical conditions but whose lungs were so badly damaged he needed intubation. “It seems so random,” she said. “It’s a bizarre disease. It’s frightening.”
“Before the end of 2020, you’d get a family and one member would be infected but not the other three or four members, even though they lived in the same environment. You don’t see this any more. If there’s one confirmed case, everyone ends up getting infected by the virus,” he said. “It’s obvious that this new variant is now circulating among us.”

Panama, which under U.S. pressure rejected an offer from Cuba for medical support, has one of the highest death rates from Covid-19. That is one reason why its economy shrank by 18%.

The HHS report also speaks of Bolivia:

Opening Bolivia to health diplomacy: After decades of silence between the U.S. and Bolivia, OGA re-established health diplomatic relations with the Ministry of Health of Bolivia following national elections. Re-engaging allows the U.S. to strengthen ties in the region, which is important for influence in regional and multilateral fora, including the Pan American Health Organization.

What was "following national elections" in Bolivia was a fascist coup which produced repression and tyranny. The U.S. used its cooperation with the coup plotters  to influence other organizations.

Meanwhile the U.S. is also falsely stating that Russia is spreading vaccine disinformation. Following a Wall Street Journal piece planted by U.S. officials these claimed, without evidence, that Russia was sowing fear about the mRNA vaccines:

On Sunday, the Wall Street Journal reported that four publications, all serving as fronts for Russian intelligence, have targeted Western-produced COVID-19 vaccines with misleading coverage that exaggerates the risk of side effects and raises questions about their efficacy.

The State Department confirmed that report on Monday, saying U.S. officials had identified four Russian online platforms that were spreading disinformation about the COVID-19 vaccines.

However paragraph 21 of the original WSJ piece, coauthored by Iraq WMD propagandist Michael Gordon, acknowledged:

In each case, the Russian outlets were repeating actual news reports ,,,

The 'Russian outlets' repeated the news 'western' news agencies were distributing. It is nice though to see acknowledged that such is often disinformation.

There are some signs that the U.S. is coordinating with its spy partners to malign the very efficient Sputnik V vaccine. The British Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) recently put up a comment that warns of Russia's soft power gain through vaccine diplomacy especially in South America:

Sputnik V’s rapid foray into new markets in Latin America may indeed have longer-term implications in an area that has traditionally been the US’s backyard. Argentina gratefully received more than half a million doses in January. It served as an embassy of sorts for Sputnik V; reportedly, Argentinian delegations to Moscow in late 2020 translated reams of details into Spanish and shared these with Bolivia, Peru, Mexico, Uruguay and Chile to speed up their ability to decide. Bolivia’s first batch arrived at the end of January. By mid-February, Mexico received its first 200,000 doses. By mid-March, Brazil and Peru appeared close to sealing respective deals.

This is followed by musings about potential sabotage targets:

There are several factors that could make Sputnik V’s current bounce shortlived. The inability to deliver supplies quickly is an immediate one. Russia has acknowledged its production squeeze, raising doubts about its ability to honour its vaccine pledges. It is dependent on plants in the likes of Brazil, India and South Korea upholding good manufacturing practice and delivering at speed and scale on Moscow’s promise to provide hundreds of millions of quality vials quickly.

The piece closes with an ominous call to action:

The biomedical science of Sputnik V may well be genuinely welcome worldwide, once full data is available and has been appropriately interrogated. But the corresponding political ramifications of deeper and wider Russian influence globally may not be so beneficial. The UK and the US must not be blindsided to the full extent of Russian vaccine diplomacy already underway.

The U.S. efforts to prevent Russian vaccine distribution failed in Argentina where President Alberto Fernández has led an early and successful effort to introduce the Russian vaccine:

Amid plenty of public skepticism, Buenos Aires sent missions to Moscow in October and December 2020 to inspect data from the vaccine’s phase 3 trial.

An Argentine presidential aide said the delegation had translated hundreds of pages of information about the vaccine into Spanish—necessary for approval—which it later shared with other governments in the region, including Bolivia, Peru, Mexico, Uruguay, and Chile.

This is how, a day before the phase 3 results were published, trucks of Sputnik V shots were already trundling through Bolivia’s countryside. A photo of a delivery in a poultry truck draped in a Bolivian flag—a creative (and health department-approved) solution for cold storage requirements—went viral. Argentina began vaccinating with Sputnik this past December, meanwhile, and Mexico announced the purchase of 24 million Sputnik doses on Jan. 25.

U.S. efforts to dissuade countries from acquiring Sputnik V have not be fully successful. That again requires to launch a propaganda campaign to malign Sputnik V wherever it is distributed:

Maxim A. Suchkov @m_suchkov - 15:35 UTC · Mar 13, 2021

1. #Putin: "Global market for #COVID19 vaccines is worth $100 billion. We see how competitors of our producers behave: they enter a country [that is in need for vaccines], sell a small batch of vaccines on a discounted price but condition the sale with that...

2. "...the country will only purchase that vaccine from that producer in the future. So, there’s a real fight for the markets".

3. $100 billion is a big market. #Russia makes over $15 bln on arms sales (unofficial stats have it as high as $55 bln), about $25 bln for agricultural sales; around the same amount on gas sales (thou it depends on supplies), oil and oil products a little over than $100 bln.

4. So all of a sudden there’s this huge market and there’s heavy fight over it. @dimsmirnov175 cites an anonymous “source in the #Kremlin” who said that Russian intel services are aware that their foreign counterparts seek to launch a massive infowar against #Russia/n vaccines

5.The source reportedly said that soon there’ll be many reports over #Russia/n vaccines inefficiency & that they even health dangerous. Allegedly, even "staged cases of massive losses of human life after using Sputnik V will be propagated via @USAID, @georgesoros @thomsonreuters

6. The target audience for this campaign will be European countries who registered #SputnikV for their emergency use – #Hungary, #Slovakia, #Montenegro, #SanMarino and N.#Macedonia.

7. On a parallel track,#US & allies, according to the “Kremlin source” 'd release “investigations” about "incompetence of #Russia/n specialists in vaccination & immunology to halt their certification by @WHO, other relevant agencies, lower demand for RU vaccines from other countries

8. “The #Kremlin source” adds #US "aggressively promotes @pfizer, eyes to make sure US free of not only from the payment of possible compensation to citizens in lawsuits in the event of side effects, but also from liability for negligence of the direct manufacturer"

9.#SputnikV now world’s 2nd in terms of demand with 50+ countries having provided permit for its use. Struggle for markets in #Europe,#LatinAmerica,#Africa #Asia will get even bigger when we’ll [most likely] learn that vaccination is not a one time deal but a seasonal routine /END

PS.This chart is telling in the kinda tricks one may pull: #Russia's #SputnikV completed all the stages, but designers of the chart (1) put it at the bottom (2) don't use its product name (3) mark it with (*) caveating its effectiveness as if ABC "independently fact-checked" others

Source: ABCnews - bigger

Graphics like the above are only one example of media manipulations in support of 'western' vaccine 'diplomacy'. This is more than just arrogance:

The West's reaction was not exactly objective in August 2020 when Russia presented the world's first corona vaccine. Words like "vaccine muck from Moscow", "nasty vaccine propaganda", and accusations of "clumsy manipulations" of a "high-risk experiment on humans". Distrust, malice and suspicion were easier to find. One newspaper quipped that Sputnik V was effective not only against the virus, but also against "homosexuality as well as epilspsy and hives."

The Five Eyes, their intelligence agencies and friends are pulling all possible strings to win the markets for their vaccines. The continuous delaying of the official EU authorization for Sputnik V is obviously a part of this sabotage scheme.

That these efforts will keep people away from other good and available vaccines and that this will inevitably cost a number of them their lives, is seen as a reasonable price for gaining vaccine supremacy.

Posted by b on March 15, 2021 at 12:16 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Nice compilation B on what basically is another big sign of western decadence and immorality. As you very well state what is needed is a global vaccination of groups at risk to avoid mutations and new variants of the virus, and not vaccination within borders while others wait.
One more jewel in the arrogant statements denigrating SputnikV, the clown -literally- Zelensky stating that Ukraine won’t approve SputnikV because Ukrainians are not “rabbits” to be subjected to experiments. He should know, he has pulled more than one rabbit from his top hat.

Posted by: Paco | Mar 15 2021 12:32 utc | 1

Reminds me of the government's efforts against Rearden metal in the novel Atlas Shrugged. One must appreciate the irony that the US, the epicenter of Randian ideology, is trying this.

Posted by: Carl | Mar 15 2021 13:02 utc | 2

Marvin Hagler Died From [reportedly: AstraZeneca] COVID Jab

The AstraZeneca vaccine is not of the mRNA type. My wife and I have agreed to get the J&J vaccine
eventually as it is not of the mRNA type, but I think you will find us at the end of the waiting line.

Posted by: librul | Mar 15 2021 13:09 utc | 3


NPR report makes no mention of any vaccine problems:

Posted by: librul | Mar 15 2021 13:12 utc | 4


Looks as though Hagler is embroiled in one more fight:

Vaccine or natural causes?

Posted by: librul | Mar 15 2021 13:16 utc | 5

Polio vaccine is a vaccine. Let me know when a corona virus vaccine is developed.

Posted by: par4 | Mar 15 2021 13:26 utc | 6

They are shameless, ast it is declared even in their U.S. Department of Health & Human Services annual report, look at page 49 !

"Strengthening Health Cooperation and U.S. Humanitarian Leadership
Combatting malign influences in the Americas: OGA used diplomatic relations in the Americas region to mitigate efforts by states, including Cuba, Venezuela, and Russia, who are working to increase their influence in the region to the detriment of US safety and security.

Examples include using OGA’s Health Attaché office to persuade Brazil to reject the Russian COVID-19 vaccine, and offering CDC technical assistance in lieu of Panama accepting an offer of Cuban doctors."

Posted by: Mauro | Mar 15 2021 13:49 utc | 7

I don't see what "five eyes" has to do with it.

Clearly the sovereign serves the merchant.

The king is dead.

The nation is without steering or brakes, but doesn't mater because is also headless.

Posted by: jared | Mar 15 2021 14:38 utc | 8

"When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car."

Hold on. Ride may get bumpy.

Posted by: jared | Mar 15 2021 14:44 utc | 9

The Russia-USA vaccine battle obscures another, possibly more important one: mRNA vaccines vs. all the rest.

Moderna got much of its early funding from the US Military. The Military is interested in mRNSA as a bio-weapons defense - the tech allows quick formulations to protect soldiers. But the ability to better defend against bio-weapons also makes USA use of bio-weapons more likely. Just the side that has an effective defense against ballistic missiles is more likely to use them.

Given such knowledge, one can question the many problems of the OxfordAstroZeneca (OAZ) vaccine (latest: Norway is looking into the possibility that the OAZ vaccine causes blood clots) and the late entry of the J&J vaccine (a full three months behind Sputnik V and Sinopharm).

But wait, there's more: By not fighting SARS-COV-2 effectively (like some countries did), mutations were virtually certain to happen. That makes the mRNA technology incredibly valuable for ability to quickly adjust to new strains. And who knows what other viruses will unexpectedly/sarc pop up in the near future?

Will American sheeple ever be allowed to question the Trump Administration many failures in fighting the pandemic - starting with Trump's bogus air travel ban and his lying about the severity of the virus? Not likely. New York State Governor Cuomo is now being hounded out of office with flimsy sex allegations to (IMO) prevent a review of the policy of sending people home to "self-isolate". "Self-isolate" and the "bend the curve" goal (instead of defeat the virus) virtually guaranteed that the pandemic would continue to spread.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 14:45 utc | 10

The attack on Cuomo seems organized.
I don't care for the guy, seemed a political hack, but I also suspect there is a need to eliminate effective leadership to clear the way for globalist domination - as we do to other nations.
I believe success of AOC, De Blasio and Biden are symptom of same.
Idiot king > French Revolution > Napoleon.

Posted by: jared | Mar 15 2021 14:56 utc | 11

Follow up to my comment @Mar15 14:45 #10

Gilad Atzmon has written about Israel's 100% vaccination program and questioned if it may lead to new, more virulent, forms of the virus

To anyone paying attention, this warning is a fore-shadowing.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 15:02 utc | 12

My wife and I received the J & J jab last week, I'll keep you all updated on us. We're 70, she has #2 diabetes but healthy and not overweight. I'm healthy, skinny. We live rural, raise and forage mushrooms, herbs, forbes, 90% of our meat is deer we harvest and process but we're almost vegetarian. So, no extra health issues beyond her #2d. She had a little bit of a sore arm for 24 hours. Neither of us had other symptoms after the jab. covid is happening here, friends, neighbors, relatives have had it, hospitals are struggling to keep up.

Posted by: migueljose | Mar 15 2021 15:03 utc | 13

what this summary of the vaccine shows me is that the nation states are marketing agents and mafia like defenders of the makers of the products of those private parties who have control over the nation states (government).
What a marketing tool, the rule of law and the use of nation state force to market privately produced products.

clearly the nation state system and its agencies have by their actions proven themselves to be a problem in need of fixing for the 8 billion people who occupy the planet.

Posted by: snake | Mar 15 2021 15:03 utc | 14

Early on, there was reporting that the novel (as in recently created) corona virus was mutating rapidly - approximately every 4th transmission was claimed.
I believe it was noted that this behavior was typical for virus, novel on in particular.
The term mutate is both appropriate and used to frighten.
It seems this is a largely political beast.

Posted by: jared | Mar 15 2021 15:18 utc | 15

When you live in a social system that has global private finance at its core, what do you expect?

The West is proud of its barbarism and flaunts its lie/cheat/steal mentality. We are standing by hopeful as that meme drives itself into the ground taking many with it. We just hope it isn't all of us in a pique of self loathing when the bottom is near.

What a shit show to live in the middle of. It is almost like folk think its weird to do things for the right reasons instead of profit....and they call themselves Christians as they blindly follow their devilish leadership.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2021 15:19 utc | 16

Hypothetically, genetic research gives us the means of widespread, genetically targeted, destruction and new tools for pharmaceutical development. Dangerous situation in a neo-liberal world order.

Posted by: jared | Mar 15 2021 15:33 utc | 17

Apparently Chuck Todd is a climatologist and virologist. He doesn't ASK Fauci if climate change will cause more pandemics - or how even soon that might happen - he simply states as fact that it will happen. For his part, Fauci largely avoids the issue, responding as generically as possible. LOL!

In this indirect way, Americans have now been put on notice: expect more pandemics and continuing restrictions in the not-too-distant future.

Who says our media aren't informative?!?!/sarc

Expert Chuck Todd fails to note that the world was long overdue a pandemic. Chuckie also fails to note that highly-paid health authorities - that planned for years for the next pandemic - failed miserably in protecting us. What health authority questioned Trump's early lies that SARS-COV-2 was no worse than the flu?


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 15:39 utc | 18

Of course Russia has no need to spread fear about US mRNA vaccines, because these are the most expensive and difficult to distribute, and the US has conspired to prevent any humanitarian distribution, an historic disgrace. Many will long remember that Russia offered vaccines at cost while the US maximized profits, and Bill Gates obliged Astrazeneca to seek profit rather than humanitarian distribution.

Posted by: Sam F | Mar 15 2021 15:52 utc | 19

Russia vs the U.S. deaths per million

But Russian vaccine production has underperformed. I cannot even find a number for it but if I look at deaths per million, 6 day rolling average, Russia is not in a sustained downtrend yet. When a country reaches heard immunity, this will go into a sustained downtrend. Russia has not even been able to vaccinate their own population.

supply chain problems? it's possible that the U.S. is hoarding part of the supply chain but Putin has not complained about that yet.
For the deniers, I know, all of these numbers are faked so you are going to believe whatever Trump or Laura Ingraham tells you to believe. In 2020, there were about 400k more deaths in the U.S. than in 2019 as documented by the CDC. Claiming otherwise, before the year ended was a popula talking point in the tinfoil brigade.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Mar 15 2021 15:56 utc | 20

ABC's chart left out the 'bad guys' Cuba and Iran who also have vaccine candidates in stage 2 and stage 3 trials. So why did they do that?

Both Cuba and Iran have native pharmaceutical industries partly due to sanctions but also because of a highly educated work force and govt support.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Mar 15 2021 16:08 utc | 21

Is there already any information how efficient Sputnik V is against the new strains?

Posted by: m | Mar 15 2021 16:37 utc | 22

@ Christian J. Chuba 20


Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Mar 15 2021 16:42 utc | 23

Mr. Christian J. Chuba

As the late President Fidel Castro observed, some countries send airplanes full of bombs to kill people, Cuba sends airplanes full of medical personnel to save people.

Partio o Muerte

Posted by: fyi | Mar 15 2021 16:47 utc | 24

librul @3
migueljose @13

Can someone please explain the following?

"Johnson & Johnson's vaccine is the third coronavirus vaccine to receive FDA approval, but the first vaccine requiring just one shot for vaccination. The drug showed a 67 percent effectiveness against moderate to severe COVID-19 infections and about an 85 percent effectiveness against the most serious illnesses. While two other FDA-approved vaccines have efficacy rates in the 90s, Johnson & Johnson's drug was shown to prevent 100 percent of hospitalizations in a clinical study of around 44,000 participants in the United States."

If the jab has a 67% efficacy against moderate to severe infections, how can it have an 85 percent effectiveness against the most severe infections? How can it prevent 100% of haspitalizations in 44,000 subjects? Unless perhaps the figure of 67% represents people who took the shot after contracting the disease? But that doesn't make sense either.

Statistical illiteracy on the part of the writer? How much of all that is true?

carl s.

Posted by: carl s. | Mar 15 2021 16:50 utc | 25

thanks b.... the oga as an arm of the private sector and for profit motive is typical of usa institutions at this point... they do propaganda too! no surprise!

@ 1 paco... so sad about ukraine falling into the usa sphere of stupidity..

@ jackrabbit.. so what vaccine are you going to be getting??

Posted by: james | Mar 15 2021 16:56 utc | 26

That Health and Human Services - not the State Dept - has to chime in over so-called "malign" activity such as sending doctors to other countries in the region, as well as inferring that the sharing of doctors represents some sort of threat to US security, shows how internalized these confrontation narratives have become. This logic does not bode well.

Posted by: jayc | Mar 15 2021 16:59 utc | 27

@Posted by: migueljose | Mar 15 2021 15:03 utc | 13

Thanks migueljose, would really appreciate the updates,
especially down the road, like 3 months and more.

Maybe others here can post their experiences with the vaccines.

Per advice from a naturopathic doc, we will be taking a one-time mega dose of vitamin C
minutes after getting the vaccine. That is not my advice, just saying.

Posted by: librul | Mar 15 2021 17:14 utc | 28

james @Mar15 16:56 #26

... so what vaccine are you going to be getting?

I don't know yet. My preference is non-mRNA but I'll wait as long as I can.

mRNA vaccines may be the only game in town if the virus keeps mutating quickly and/or new viruses are introduced.

What I object to is the near complete lack of cynicism. Many moa readers will recall the phrase: "Question Authority" from the 1960's. We need that same spirit today. The 'woke' generation isn't quite 'there' yet.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 17:45 utc | 29

@25 carl s.
It's 67% efficient.

That's the number according to international standards and rhe number which allows comparison to other vaccines. All the other quoted numbers are just there in order to obfuscate the fact that it is significantly less efficient than the mRNA vaccines.

Posted by: m | Mar 15 2021 17:49 utc | 30

Follow-up to @Mar15 17:45 #29

The 'woke' are currently focused on race and sex with some concern for inequality and a living wage. 'Anti-war' isn't yet on the radar screen for most of them, though it should be.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 17:51 utc | 31

@10,11 Re: Gov. Cuomo

Yes, clearly organized. No sympathy for him from here (sunny upstate NY).

As the second-generation son of a governor, and head of a mighty, and thoroughly corrupt political machine, for years the state budget process was three guys alone in a conference room. The obvious result was billions of state $ funneled to pet projects led by cronies. He had no shortage of enemies, I'm sure.

Covering up the alarming rate of nursing home Covid fatalities was the straw that broke the camel's back, but I suppose even that was too unsightly for the media. So instead they suddenly discover that for years he's been a d-bag in his relations to younger women he comes across. While that may well be true and is reason enough for him to be gone, what it really means is they don't have the guts to air the actual issues.

Posted by: ptb | Mar 15 2021 17:55 utc | 32

carl s. @Mar15 16:50 #25

If the jab has a 67% efficacy against moderate to severe infections, how can it have an 85 percent effectiveness against the most severe infections?

I would think the terms "moderate, severe, and most severe" have to do with what's called the viral load that test subjects were exposed to after receiving the vaccine. Thus:

23% still showed symptoms after receiving a moderate-severe viral load.

15% got symptoms after receiving the most severe viral load'.

And none of the participants had to be hospitalized.

<> <> <> <> <>

Why would more people show symptoms after receiving a lower viral load? Probably because a larger viral load triggers the vaccine-primed immune response faster.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 18:02 utc | 33

carl s. @Mar15 16:50 #25

If the jab has a 67% efficacy against moderate to severe infections, how can it have an 85 percent effectiveness against the most severe infections?

I would think the terms "moderate, severe, and most severe" have to do with what's called the viral load that test subjects were exposed to after receiving the vaccine. Thus:

23% still showed symptoms after receiving a moderate-severe viral load.

15% got symptoms after receiving the most severe viral load'.

And none of the participants had to be hospitalized.

<> <> <> <> <>

Why would more people show symptoms after receiving a lower viral load? Probably because a larger viral load triggers the vaccine-primed immune response faster.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 18:02 utc | 34

It's Profit over People yet again, and such shouldn't be any surprise. The geopolitical aspects show an extremely desperate Outlaw US Empire that has lost all its soft power through its inhumane behavior. That it thinks it can recoup some of what it lost by continuing to act inhumanely proves the absolute sordid quality of the minds at work. And then there's the lies and deceit, and to think that the people managing this campaign are allowed to raise children!

Having discovered that Mexico has Sputnik V, I'll be going South as soon as I get my renewed passport.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 15 2021 18:07 utc | 35

ptb @Mar15 17:55 #32

I'm also a New Yorker - "Downstate". And I too have no sympathy for corrupt NY politicians.

But I think it's very important to ask WHY he is being 'cancelled'.

Political parties usually look after their 'stars' in higher office. Cuomo is being thrown under the bus. And it isn't because his aids fudged the numbers of dead. I see THAT as merely the start of the effort to remove him.

So why the concerted effort to forcibly remove him? The policy that killed people in the nursing homes was essentially nation-wide. I don't know of any effort to quarantine people in USA. To fight the nursing-home scandal, Cuomo would point to guidance from the Federal government (CDC, NIH, Homeland Security, and others in the Trump Administration).


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 18:14 utc | 36

The NY Times has a surprisingly nearly unbiased article on all available vaccines and their testing stages etc.

Sputnik V is being distributed in Russia. My daughter and her boyfriend, as nursing students were required to be vaccinated, or show antibodies from a recovered case of COVID-19. My daughter has had COVID-19 and fully recovered, and her boyfriend had his first vaccination. Unlike most western countries, there is no panic, and lockdowns are on an as needed basis.

Russia reacted very quickly to the virus and closed its borders early.

Posted by: Peter Williams | Mar 15 2021 18:31 utc | 38

Isn't vaccinating Israel but not the Palestinians necessarily leads to the virus will spread into the unvaxed pockets? The territories called Palestine are completely imbricated in the settlers' State...

Posted by: Mina | Mar 15 2021 18:35 utc | 39

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 15 2021 18:07 utc | 35

If you are allowed to travel without a jab by then. Basically, people are going to be blackmailed into taking an ineffective expensive vaccine so some oligarchs can become a little richer tomorrow than yesterday. Of course, any more effective vaccine produced by China, Russia or Cuba will be unrecognized if not banned and criminalized.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 15 2021 18:36 utc | 40

Blue Dotterel @40--

As S commented here several weeks ago, Russian travel agencies and Aeroflot were arranging special vaccine charters I might also take advantage of, and Mexico has a long history of welcoming medical patients from El Norte seeking treatments unavailable here.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 15 2021 18:43 utc | 41

@36 Jackrabbit

Re: why - Good question!

Agreed that he is being thrown under the bus, including by state Dems. IMO Cuomo was on track to short-list for the 2024 primary, in the event Biden doesn't go for a 2nd term. But that's a long connection to make.

Posted by: ptb | Mar 15 2021 18:50 utc | 42

Posted by: ptb | Mar 15 2021 18:50 utc | 42

Yes, it did occur to me that it might be someone wants Cuomo out of the way. It's a very popular method, and used selectively. Nevertheless, you have to wish them Godspeed with their "plot" against him. Perhaps one of Trump's offspring wants to run. I hear Chelsea is thinking about it too.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 15 2021 18:57 utc | 43

@ Posted by: ptb | Mar 15 2021 17:55 utc | 32

There are always reasons to be against any established public official.
Probably The Cuomo regime more than most.
But still, I would be very cautious about the motivations behind it.
There is I believe a trend of removing effective, powerful leaders to be replaced by others groomed to be compliant to other interests.
I would think that it would be reasonable to investigate who and why is behind what seems a transparent, organized take-down. I have heard it claimed that Cuomo was becoming too powerful in the demo party. Dirty politics is destructive and harms us all.
It would be past time for Cuomo to go, but I hate to see him replaced by someone representing interests more corrupt.

Posted by: jared | Mar 15 2021 18:57 utc | 44

News Roundup | Dr. Tess Lawrie Discusses her Ivermectin Meta-Analysis, the FDA, and Dr. Andrew Hill

Dr Tess Lawrie is a frequent member of technical teams responsible for developing international guidelines. Her peer-reviewed publications have received in excess of 3000 citations.

Trial Site News

Posted by: Hemiola | Mar 15 2021 18:58 utc | 45

@ @ Posted by: ptb | Mar 15 2021 17:55 utc | 32

Smells like cabbage and urine to me.

Posted by: jared | Mar 15 2021 19:00 utc | 46

The wife and I have had our final jab of the Pfizer vaccine 2 weeks ago. No side effects so far.

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 15 2021 19:13 utc | 47

"traditionally been the US’s backyard. Argentina gratefully received more than half a million doses in January. "

Distance Buenos Aires - Miami (capital, nearest American airport) is 7000 km. Backyard indeed.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 15 2021 19:16 utc | 48

As to Cuomo; To me, he's just another scum-bag taking advantage of his wealth and position to satisfy his sexual urges, but, I agree with his refusal to resign. At some point, people, when confronted by his kind, will have to say no, forcefully, and live with the consequences.

Scum-bag Trump had 21 accusers, and just brushed them off. "What's good for the goose, is good for the gander "

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 15 2021 19:25 utc | 49

The attack on Cuomo seems organized.
I don't care for the guy, seemed a political hack, but I also suspect there is a need to eliminate effective leadership ...
Posted by: jared | Mar 15 2021 14:56 utc | 11
Effective leadership? Are you writing about THAT Cuomo?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 15 2021 19:26 utc | 50

@ Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 15 2021 19:26 utc | 50

Cuomo has been fairly successful, last 10 years.
And his father before him.

Hillary had her eye on NY in the past (((shudder))).

Posted by: jared | Mar 15 2021 19:33 utc | 51
How you get more mutants

Posted by: Mina | Mar 15 2021 19:38 utc | 52

So the end result is a world with uneven levels of vaccination. Seems like this will simply keep covid around for a very long time for the sake of anti-Russia geopolitics and big Western pharma profits. The world will end up becoming a medical dystopia for years to come.

Posted by: Erelis | Mar 15 2021 19:42 utc | 53

Erelis @ 53; "So the end result is a world with uneven levels of vaccination. Seems like this will simply keep covid around for a very long time for the sake of anti-Russia geopolitics and big Western pharma profits. The world will end up becoming a medical dystopia for years to come."

Yep, afraid you're right.....But then hey, profits uber alles....

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 15 2021 19:47 utc | 54

@ 29 jackrabbit... thanks... i see this much the same way as you....

@ 37 b... thanks for this additional article.. i quote from it below..

"There are lots of players in the vaccine version of the great game. Both China and Russia are aggressively practicing vaccine diplomacy. As is the EU. The primary goal of U.S. vaccine diplomacy seems to be to ensure the profits of Big Pharma, rather than on maximizing the number of people vaccinated, in the shortest possible time. Could these priorities shift? Perhaps. Time will tell. India has stepped forward to represent the perspective of developing countries, drawing on its role as a major vaccine manufacturer – and perhaps sometime soon – developer."

Posted by: james | Mar 15 2021 19:53 utc | 55

vetinLA @Mar15 19:25 #49

Scum-bag Trump had 21 accusers, and just brushed them off.

Trump's accusers seemed to me to be just be a device for misdirection. They stole the spotlight from Trump's connections to Epstein, multiple older accusers practically screamed the message: the billionaire playboy isn't interested in underage women!

Should we trust that? Trump also appeared to have a falling out with the Clintons despite a long association. During the campaign he accused or insinuated that Hillary (and Bill) were guilty of corruption and compromising national security. Yet one of his first actions was to declare that there would be no investigation of the Clintons.

Ask yourself: Is pussy-grabber Trump a liar or a sex fiend? Either of these should've disqualified him for office. But the media allowed him to have it both ways: it was just braggadocio! No harm, no foul.

There was much more weirdness to come but one thing that stands out is the media's memory-holing Trump's lies about the severity of the virus, largely accepting that he did so to prevent panic. After Trump's (pretended?) virus infection and triumphal return to the White House, Trump's lying was forgotten.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 20:01 utc | 56

Forgive my ignorance here b.

What is the main diff between mRNA and a Vaccine produced the regular way?

Thanks to whomever decides to answer, and many thanks too the Host.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Mar 15 2021 20:35 utc | 57

Posted by: librul | Mar 15 2021 13:09 utc | 3

The relatives back home share your thoughts. They are holding out for the one-dose Johnson and Johnson vaccine but all that's currently available where they live is Moderna's.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Mar 15 2021 20:37 utc | 58

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 15 2021 20:01 utc | 56

During the Democratic Primaries when I was (stupidly) supporting Bernie (again) by plugging him to friends and relatives from Europe, there was a virtual Twatter lockdown and then smear brigade when anyone pointed out Joe Biden's sexual assault allegation. It was like a preview and test run for what they did in October when Hunter's laptop surfaced....

Creepy Uncle Joe isn't up there in the 20s like Trump and Cuomo, but the media refused to touch Tara Reade's allegations.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Mar 15 2021 20:40 utc | 59

A long one, sorry about this...

I'm not an epidemiologist nor medically trained on trial procedures and norms but i have the following questions:

1. Efficacy figures:
Is it determined by looking for antibodies in the test subjects? If so how much is good enough and who sets the bar? If not...

2. Viral exposure post inoculation:
I don't believe they lock the test subjects up in a room pumped full of covid19 goodness to get the absolute efficacy figures so whatever efficacy would be highly dependant on the test cohort and their environmental exposure.

e.g. A cohort that are made up of front line workers in a hotpot/basket case like Brazil will necessarily be more prone to be exposed to the virus than say a cohort that fairly represents the population. Conversely a vaccine tested on a less exposed cohort will also more likely to get a better efficacy figure.

So is this why we're seeing lower and sometimes inconsistent figures on particular vaccines. The sinovac coronavac comes to mind. Figures in Brazil was wildly different to others in turkey and Indonesia.

... Actually i smell political meddling with the Brazil trial, similar to what b pointed out in his piece, but i digress.

3. Endpoint
Isn't the whole idea of the vaccine to avoid deaths and suffering? If so even the 'lowly' coronavac with its low efficacy was able to prevent 100% of severe cases that requires hospitalization. Of the 30 or 40% that it 'wasn't' effective for, it was just mild symptoms and did not require any intervention. Pretty good for a Chinese /3rd World vaccine that doesn't even need -70c logistics.

What I'm saying is there's a lot of cherry picking, manipulations, stacked decks and absolute bullshit because of vaccine politics. Sadly the sheeple are buying it all.

For me, because of my need to travel to both the 'free world' and the totalitarian regime that is China, i will probably need to get jabbed by 2 vaccines due to the vaccine politics that is taking shape right in front of your eyes. It pains me to think that in doing so I'll make another 2 doses unavailable to someone else.

What can you do: i do believe all the vaccines are effective and if you're otherwise healthy you should go and take the jab, whichever one (may be pass on the AZ for now). Your govt have already blown your money on it, and they don't have a long use-by date.

The world is acutely supply-limited and your support to vaccinate will ironically slow down the empire in trying to corner the vaccine market politically. Why? Because they will not be able to spin up production as quickly as RUS+CHN+other countries who are working with RUS+CHN to spin up their own production.

At the end MRNA is a mil tech and i can't see the 'free world' giving that up to anyone else until its common knowledge. So the longer it is supplied-limited, the better for the uptake of the other vaccines to put a nip on the brewing vaccine-racism where you can only travel to certain places depending on which jab you took.

Thanks for reading.

Posted by: A.L. | Mar 15 2021 20:43 utc | 60

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 15 2021 19:16 utc | 48

Indeed, and it's well known among long distance travelers how tedious is the long flight to Argentina from the USA. Shortest flight duration from anywhere in the USA to Argentina is more than 12 hours (inclusive of one or more stops) and most, with the layovers, take almost a full day. The only way it's in their "backyard" is if one accepts the mindset of the Monroe Doctrine.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Mar 15 2021 20:45 utc | 61

@11 "The attack on Cuomo seems organized."

It seems to be organized in the following manner: let us drown credible accusation of killing 15,000 people in nursing homes and trying to cover it up by falsifying records -- in an endless stream of trivial 'metoo' bullshit.

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I would've concluded that Andrew Cuomo paid those accusers to make accusations and thus change the subject.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Mar 15 2021 20:53 utc | 62

Tannenhouser @ 57

Main difference is mRNA is absolutely new. There has never before been an mRNA product turned loose on the general population. Moderna had a rabies investigational product that did get as far as human testing, it was shut down early. Moderna we know is funded by DARPA, In-Q-Tel, Bill Gates, Jeffrey Epstein. In existence for thirty or forty years, depending which story you desire to believe. Never had a saleable product until now. Trust us.

The Pfizer mRNA product is entirely acquired from BioNTech. Try to find out anything about them. Next try to find out anything about them that passes the laugh test.

If you want to know something about how mRNA gene therapy is alleged to work would suggest reading or watching what Geert van den Bossche has been saying since he started to talk. He is a vaccine developer. A man who has spent his career in the lab creating vaccines. He believes in vaccines. Formerly worked with GAVI and Gates Foundation. Not an anti-Vaxxer.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 15 2021 20:56 utc | 63

jackrabbit @ 12, thanks SO much for that excellent video link! As the two participants were discussing, I had the thought that the vaccine situation they are analyzing is very much like the GMO experimentation we have all been subjected to around the world when those seeds were presented to us, and the virus being a part of our life system, is like the weeds which were enabled by the practise of using GMO seeds and then spraying the crops with virulent herbicides those seeds were now inoculated to resist --- it all meant that the situation in farmer's fields, while the crops themselves survive (much as do inoculated with the vaccine persons) the situation at large gets worse!

It is an excellent conversation also on the side issue of whether science benefits from shutting down dissent. We should all think about that!!

Posted by: juliania | Mar 15 2021 20:58 utc | 64

On BioNTech; designing the vaccine on a table corner in a few hours
Hard not to raise an eyebrow.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 15 2021 21:04 utc | 65

Soon we'll all be making vaccines in our kitchen

Posted by: Mina | Mar 15 2021 21:07 utc | 66

Tannenhouser @ 57:

Vaccines in the strict sense of the term use weakened or inactive forms of the virus they target to stimulate the immune response. MRNA vaccines don't: they insert a protein resembling a protein on the coronavirus's outer coat into the RNA of your cells so your body makes these proteins itself to prime the immune response. That's my understanding and I stand to be corrected by others.

Posted by: Jen | Mar 15 2021 21:10 utc | 67

Gosh, there's so much enthusiasm for inoculation around here one almost forgets that there are many of us, even inside the industry, who don't want ANY of these injections.

And as a kind of aside, the extreme harvesting of their blue blood is apparently wreaking havoc on the horseshoe crab community, an extremely important link in the old ecological chain.

Posted by: john | Mar 15 2021 21:31 utc | 68

@ Jackrabbit

The Adenovirus vector vaccines are DNA vaccines. The primary difference between them (Sputnik V, Astrozenica, J & J and some more) is the type of Adenovirus vector used, for example human or chimp, how they are cultured, and the specifics of production and processing.

All of them use a segment of DNA that codes for a Covid-2 Spike protein which is genetically inserted into the adenovirus delivery system.

The mRNA vaccines use nanolipids to stabilize the mRNA segments and similarly code for Covid-2 spike protein.

The adenovirus DNA vaccines enter the cell nucleus where they begin the process transcribing DNA code to mRNA, the desired antigen trigger of the immune process. The mRNA to protein production factories are the ribosomes, housed in the (non nuclear) cytoplasm.

These DNA and mRNA vaccines all differ from traditional first-order vaccines which culture the virus being targeted, kill it so it can not reproduce, and injected it into the patient, a process called innoculation (dead virus jab which stimulates wide variety of anitbodies), vs vaccination (nucleic acid code traveling on a vector or in nano lipid packet which stimulates production of a specific antigen “spike” protein in this instance.

One problem I haven’t heard any assessment about is what happens in the cell when degraded forms of genetic code, either mRNA or DNA, resulting from perhaps shoddy manufacture or sloppy handling? Would there still be biological activity? Producing what proteins?

Quality control across the process and delivery system is probably of extreme importance in ensuring vaccine safety.

Posted by: suzan | Mar 15 2021 21:33 utc | 69

john @ 68

That first link in your post is to Geert van den Bossche and is an excellent interview. Worth the time. Somewhat annoying music at start, in all ways the best take I have encountered on how mRNA works. Much more accessible than some of what that author has been putting in print.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 15 2021 21:38 utc | 70

I would hope others will look at the video @ 12 - lots of meat in that for a discussion and very important information from the Israeli vaccinations for the covid virus! I look forward to further consideration of the thesis. The important part is that the findings don't disagree with the efficacy of the vaccine, they simply point to a change in the virus itself being somehow linked to the vaccinations. I would like to know if this is also the case when vaccinations of the more traditional type are being used, or whether this is only true of certain ones.

And again, if this is a false correlation, I would like to know that as well. I've sent the video to my daughter who is a hospital worker.

Posted by: juliania | Mar 15 2021 21:44 utc | 71

Thanks Hippy, Jen and others. Hippy Ill watch some Geert van der Bosche later on.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Mar 15 2021 21:46 utc | 72

Suzan @ 69

That is an excellent question. Also there is no certainty what is happening when all apparently goes to plan. Extensive tissue sampling and analysis needs doing. Best way to do all of that is on autopsy. Autopsies are not being done. It is as if no one wants to know.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 15 2021 21:53 utc | 73

Jrabbit @ 56 asked; "Ask yourself: Is pussy-grabber Trump a liar or a sex fiend?"

Actually, both, but then, most men, IMO, have a problem with the latter. Nature it seems, has endowed us with the stronger urge to "repopulate the species", and when joined with an over abundance of $, some think it's a license to act out our sexual fantasies. It isn't, but Epstein made it a business model. Entitlement is entitlement, no matter how it manifests, and rich and powerful men suffer from it often.

DJT and Cuomo are our latest examples. Rich, powerful, scum-bags.....

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 15 2021 22:03 utc | 74

MCJ @ 62; Ummm,good guess...

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 15 2021 22:06 utc | 75

I am absolutely appalled by the blinkered focus on vaccines to the detriment of therapeutic treatment. Of course, no one should be surprised by this, considering, as Putin puts it, there is now a sudden and lucrative $100 billion c19 vaccine market (what incentive!). So the entire medical world (minus a few) discovered that c19 was amenable to vaccine production and completely buried efforts to discover/develop successful treatments.

Ask anybody (in the global north) that has had c19 what they were told to do. Just about all of them will probably say that they were told to go home and self-care/quarantine until they have symptoms that are bad enough for them to be hospitalized. Doctors don't want to treat c19 because they've been told by government guidance that there is no treatment (a complete lie!). Meanwhile, those few brave doctors have actually tried to treat patients before they get worse and there have been a few discoveries (IVM is the best example) of various treatments that are highly effective.

So now we find even the least vulnerable, such as 20/30 year olds, all clamoring to get a vaccine, any supposed vaccine, when all they really need is some vit D and to take varied prophylaxis proven to work and they'd be perfectly fine. A responsible gov response would be to vaccinate the most vulnerable and treat the least vulnerable. Instead, we have mass hysteria to vaccine all human beings alive and still force 3 year olds to mask and take two tests a week, all for the sake of protecting pharma profits. Absurd.

Posted by: Kapusta | Mar 15 2021 22:07 utc | 76

There are a number of things about the products being pushed ostensibly to counteract the symptoms from sars covid-2. Just the unsucessful attempts that have been documented in the past is enough to raise the eyebrow, not to mention Moderna and the shady aspects there'of. Add to that the fact that not even phase 1 clinical trials have been completed on something that has never been administered en-masse and the red flags go up. If the words 'emergency, experimental, and untested' don't cause a bit of concern, then maybe the alarming reports of severe ractions including death from across the globe might. The degree to which any voices that challenge the dominant narrative are getting crushed leads one to suspect that something is not quite right. The treatment does not prevent one from contracting said disease, nor does it prevent spreading it, so therefore your health and safety does not depend on me getting injected. Then there is the matter of informed consent and Neurmberg.....

Posted by: Chevrus | Mar 15 2021 22:09 utc | 77

_K_C_@59 is wrong about the Hunter Biden laptop: The only story that would have mattered was emails between Hunter and Joe. Everybody knows Hunter is a doper and a grifter (the two are connected apparently,) so yes, that wasn't a true story.

Not so wrong was the analysis of Tara Reade. The news media did report it, it wasn't suppressed. The thing is of course that the standard of reporting in many of these cases is deplorable, a deliberate treatment of twitter storms as somehow validating presumption of guilt and proof that outrage has to be covered (so that more outrage can be stoked, though this isn't admitted to be the goal.) So unless you're advocating that all sexual scandals be treated as epoch-defining crises in the body politic though, what precisely is your point? The same people who twitter stormed Woody Allen and Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey somehow didn't feel like twitter storming Joe Biden? The right-wing mainstream media did of course, but the right wing isn't as popular with the real people as the wingnuts around here like to admit. The sad fact is, the people most likely to suffer a real moral panic via twitter until they receive real consequences are largely Jewish, black and gay. The biggest exceptions I can think of in recent times, O'Reilly and Roger Ailes, were targets of internal politics at Fox, as near as I can tell, a snakepit run with the worst managerial cutthroat style you would expect from Rupert Murdoch. And there was Les Moonves, but he was in a mortal struggle with Sumner Redstone.

Most of all of course, Trump had favorable treatment re Stormy Daniels and that woman who claimed Trump raped her. And frankly the Access:Hollywood shenanigans during the campaign reminded me of how well timed Gennifer Flowers was during Bill Clinton's primary campaign. Monica and Bill is the classic example of a ginned-up campaign, complete with a corrupt judge encouraging a frivolous lawsuit to entangle a president. Again, is the politics of puritanical sex panic really what you think we need more of?

Posted by: steven t johnson | Mar 15 2021 22:09 utc | 78

The desperate rush to severely restrict ivermectin in Peru reveals its efficacy with a 14 fold reduction in excess death rates compared to now with ivermectin safely off the shelf. 4 minute utoob from TrialSitenews. The new Peruvian president is a useful tool of USAstan. This what is normally referred to as willful and culpable negligence.

Interestingly the end of this video briefly discusses the hypothesis that ivermectin is effective as it out-competes covid by monopolising the human binding sites whereby covid infects.

If you prefer to just get the conclusion with the reference to the above sentence go here. 1minute utoob TrialSitenews.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 15 2021 22:16 utc | 79

US worrying about vaccine competition is so stupid when only a handful of countries have got their hands on enough vaccines right now, and when US and UK are hoarding them like crazy. It's not a 0-sum game for now, every bit helps. Gee, EU is in a bad state due to all pharmas failing to deliver.
Besides, it's funny to see US complaining about Russia badmouthing MRNA (so Pfizer and Moderna) when it's Astra-Zeneca which is gets gloomy headlines on a daily basis.
That said, I'd have no issue with Western countries relying on MRNA vaccines and taking the bulk of them, as long as it means the easier to produce and distribute, Sputnik, AZ, J/J, the Chinese ones, are reserved for the rest of the world; it's probably the best way to ensure most countries will vaccinate their most vulnerable citizens in a realistic timeframe - at least before the year is over, if not earlier.
As for Latin America, Chile is doing great, and is relying mostly on Sinovax for now if I remember correctly - like many others, it probably ordered a ton of other vaccines, but won't need them, so hopefully they'll be sent to neighbouring countries instead.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 15 2021 22:33 utc | 80

mina @ 52, thanks for your link. The headline to the article reads: "SARS-CoV-2 evolution during treatment of chronic infection." I was only able to read a line at a time, due to the set up on my computer, but it looks as though it is a more clinical study of patients being treated with remisidivir (sp? sorry) on the virus as they were being treated, and that those mutations were occurring rapidly during course of treatment. One wonders, then, is that a corroboration of the study linked @ 12 but not specifically related to any vaccine per se, and does it mean that the mutations are occurring within the hospitalization process in general (and possibly also out in the environment) as well as in conjunction with vaccine jabs, so that while some get treated, others are more likely to suffer from those mutations? Or as seems to be the claim at the video, are the virulent mutations occurring in conjunction with the vaccinations only?

The video supposes that more vaccinations may be necessary as the virus mutates and other dangerous ones come on scene. The question being can the human body suffer these annually or more often as well as, say,they have had less potent 'flu vaccinations every year? (That's assuming the 'flu jabs are harmless, but I won't go there.)

I'm not a clinical expert, but it seemed the mutations were occurring in Mina's link in a petri dish, not just out in the general atmosphere, and that those mutations seem to be less virulent, not more. Whereas in the video @ 12, the deaths had doubled in conjunction with the vaccinations.

I'm not anti vax per se. But this is a different situation from other cases. It really does need to be studied without the economic factor entering in, so that the best solution can be taken, or the world is going to be very badly off just following what powerful nations tell them to do.

Posted by: juliania | Mar 15 2021 22:36 utc | 81

Meanwhile the exceptional US Embassy in Hong Kong has two workers who are Covid-19 infected and they assert their diplomatic immunity to spread the disease among the population of Hong Kong.

"According to local media Dot News, both employees refused to accept the quarantine arrangement on the grounds of diplomatic immunity. They are still roaming the community after the preliminary diagnosis and working in the consulate, posing a huge potential hazard to the prevention and fight against the epidemic, Dot News reported on Monday, quoting government sources.

"While notifying the consulate's indefinite temporary closure, the consulate did not respond to earlier news that two employees had refused to be quarantined.

" We can confirm that the employees in question do not work in offices that interact with the public," said the consulate. "We have closed the Consulate General to perform a deep disinfection and cleaning, while appropriate contact tracing is completed."

"Hong Kong's Secretary for Food and Health Sophia Chan Siu-chee said on Monday that the two cases will be handled seriously.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 15 2021 22:48 utc | 82

No Jackrabbit@34 dosing trials are considered to be unethical in SARS2 vaccine research because infection can cause death. Mild, moderate, severe and dead refer to degrees of illness, i.e. possible outcomes.
Application for emergency use approval requires data from double blind placebo controlled trials. 10s of thousands of subjects; if its a paired placebo trial, equal numbers placebo and vaccinated. Test subjects circulate in the population for a set amount of time and then the two groups are compared. 'Dosing' is natural, so there has to be virus circulating in the population at high enough levels to get some data (trials carried out in US and Brazil for example, not China). Infections in the placebo group are the baseline and the vaccinated group is compared for effect, efficacy (not efficiency) being the percentage difference in each outcome possibility.
More vaccinated people show up in the mild to moderate category because their infections are not leading to severe illness and death, demonstrating vaccine efficacy.
Effectiveness is a specific term used to describe the effect of a vaccine on the widespread population and that data won't be available for months yet.

Posted by: TDeL | Mar 15 2021 22:57 utc | 83

If you go to the US CDC website you will see that all current vaccines for Covid are only under "emergency" approval.
It is also clearly stated that they will not work in all cases and that the Pharma Industry is not liable when they cause harm.

I don't want a jab that is messing with my DNA in the first palce but I absoliutely don't want one that is not yet fully tested.

In addition what does "fully tested" even mean in a corrupt system where you can hardly find a single truth on any topic in 24 hours of news broadcasting?

How is it that people are ultra critical of political corruption yet as happy as lambs to trust BIg Pharma in spite of endless lies, corruption and human damage in the last 100 years. Why isn't it obvious that Big Pharma is part of the problem. You can't be part of the problem and the solution at the same time.

There is a place for vaccines but for vaccines to fit into the category of preventative medicine, like good food, exercise, vitamins etc or modalities like acupuncture or herbalism etc , they also need to prove they are as harmless as good food, intelligent exercise or vitamins. In my opinion they should be part of any national health system, subject to the most rigorous and independent testing, and they should be free.

Preventative medicine should have an almost zero chance of killing or maiming anyone. Otherwise it's just the product of the same philosophy of "collateral damage" than Empires use to control the human world.

I question vaccine logic when it denies the human capacity to evolve to protect itself and I especially question Vaccines for profit. I'm not an anti vaxxer, but I am also not going to happily inject a cocktail of chemicals and animal/human DNA proteins directly into my bloodstream. I am well aware that vaccines have used dead or active animal proteins for a very long time, part of the reason why i try to avoid them at all costs.

Where is the research that proves that injecting foreign DNA into our blood is safe long term for the overall health of human beings , not just for immunity to one disease? Obviously the current vaccines are not killing people in great numbers, but they
are killing some. And anyway, not killing a patient isn't the criteria for "safe"! What other effects will be long term?

Saying that we just don't know is naive. Obviously bio tech labs have been experimenting for decades on the effect of genetic mutation on animals and humans. Just as they knew the long terms outcomes of GMO crops but kept is secret, they will also be well aware of the long terms effects of GMO vaccines and also keeping it very secret.

There doesn't need to be a micro chip in a vaccine to make it a bio weapon.

Will the gene activating vaccines become a biological weapon just as GMO seeds have?

I've watched presentations explaining the science of the current vaccines, and I do not feel at all re-assured that the genetic response will behave as predicted in every case, or even in any case. Gaining immunity from Covid is pointless if it renders people more succeptable to potentially worse health conditions down the track.

I have no expertise in this field, I'm just a concerned human being trying to make sense of very complicated science that also happens to have no legal liability. What could possibly go wrong? Einstein would be sympathetic given what happened with his science.

We should be questioning the argument for vaccines over antibody testing and preventative medicine at the very least. But that is not even a mainstream conversation at this point.

Somebody mentioned in the comments that in Russia you can get antibody testing and not need the vaccine. This sounds more like a balanced approach to me. That isn't an option in most places that I am aware of.

Manufacturing of consent for genetic intervention in humans is now happening very successfully all over the world due to covid. The created hysteria that vaccines are the only way to save the planet is so reminiscent of WMD's in Iraq and GMO seeds in the developing countries . Anyone notice that millions of Indian farmers are now rejecting the Bio-Tech because GMO seeds and their accompanying poisons are destroying lives and the planet?

These are not separate issues.

Suddenly there is a $100 Billion covid Vaccine market. And strangely Pharma seems to be the only class that is a-political and borderless. Even making profits in our favourite anti western countries. What a coup! And how is this possible?

I never really understood the intense media campaign against anti-vaxxers until now. I mean why would a relatively few traumatised parents really be a bother to Big Pharma? The answer is that they aren't.

Creating a public enemy and gaining consent was the goal and boy has it worked a treat!

Just in time for the biggest Vaccine $$$$ jackpot of all time.
It couldn't have worked out better if they had planned it.

Posted by: K | Mar 15 2021 23:14 utc | 84

john | Mar 15 2021 21:31 utc | 68

Thanks for that link to the Geert Vanden Bossche interview.

It is worth repeating - Mass Vaccination in a Pandemic - Benefits versus Risks

I would hope that every MOA reader would take the time to watch it.

Posted by: ted01 | Mar 15 2021 23:28 utc | 85

China's response to the USA's official claims:

West ‘weaponizes’ vaccines to divide world aimed at maintaining hegemony

"The West does not see vaccines from a professional and scientific perspective and now wants to use its technological advantages to squeeze China. While the West accuses China of engaging in vaccine diplomacy, the very one that wants to engage in vaccine diplomacy is the West," said Zuo.


@ Posted by: suzan | Mar 15 2021 21:33 utc | 69

Human adenovirus is a completely different technology than chimpanzee adenovirus, and both are completely different technologies from mRNA. Just three completely different things.

All viruses interact with their hosts' DNA and can potentially alter them forever. Indeed, we can restore fragments from very old viruses on the basis of DNA of third species. That is a natural and unavoidable aspect of life, and cannot and will never change.

Either way, the debate you bring up is moot point, because DNA mutation is not the issue with mRNA and chimpanzee adenovirus. The crux of the debate is this: human adenoviral vaccines are an already existing technology, tried and tested. We know they work and we know they're safe. That's not the case with the other two, which are completely untried and untested until last year.

Posted by: vk | Mar 15 2021 23:36 utc | 86

Right now it is difficult to ascertain whether the euro -scare over the A-Z jab causing blood clots is tosh or not. The Pfizer jab also had a recipient suffer a blood clot, in amerika, early in the vaccine rollout so it is not inconceivable that all covid vaccines may have a propensity for inducing thrombosis in a small percentage of recipients.
On the other hand about one in one thousand humans die from thrombosis, so it may well be that these were just unlucky humans whose number came up coincidentally with their covid jab.

There is a little evidence however which indicates that at least some of the thrombosis deaths occured outside the range of 'normal' for thrombosis. Norway and Denmark two countries with well established public health systems and far more comprehensive than most other countries medical databases of their patients, were the first to blow the whistle. There were allegedly features of these post jab thromboses which took them outside the range of normal.

The deaths occurred in citizens at a younger age than is normal for thrombosis death and the blood clots occurred in lungs which had a lower than usual number of platelets in the blood, which is the opposite of what one would expect since platelets are an important part of clotting, how is that people with lower than usual platelets in their blood developed clots.
So in the last 18 hours more and more Euro states are suspending use of the AZ vaccine while this data is researched.
The Irish health mob are delaying by saying there is no evidence at all to show a link between vaccination and thrombosis, which is correct, but all that means is no one has demonstrated a physiological, biochemical process that explains how this could occur. Of course not - the vaccine is only 3 months into a massive rollout, the research required to find then prove such a link, if there is one, is likely years off.

On the other hand the entire yarn may be just another story put out by the puppets of competitors in an extremely lucrative immature market.
Every embassy in every nation on this old rock of ours, spends a large chunk of time and energy pushing products and services which the nation the particular embassy represents, will profit from.

That includes involvement by 'intelligence' services located in embassies.
It is probable that a great deal of the industrial espionage to uncover the trade secrets which countries such as england & amerika are forever trying to steal from others, friends & alleged enemies alike, are in fact undertaken by their national foreign intelligence agencies, MI6 and CIA.
We should be surprised if the CIA etc weren't attempting to blackmail and browbeat the puppet leaders of nations (Bolsonaro is most definitely a puppet) to buy products from their country.

I agree it is wrong and publicising it is essential, but as I said there should be no surprise. Aotearoa has recently (about two weeks ago), announced that the population will all be vaccinated with the Pfizer mRNA vaccine. The jabs will be free or extremely low cost for most (certainly much less than the USD $60 Pfizer demands) and I had been wondering how Pharmac, the national agency which makes decisions on all drug purchases managed to beat Pfizer down. Pharmac has a reputation for favouring generics ahead of hi-cost originals.

Perhaps they didn't, although I reckon Pharmac being Pharmac they would have got a pretty good deal but maybe not as good as usual since Aotearoa governments, particularly ersatz left administrations have a habit of doing easy deals with five eyes partners as a way of avoiding agreeing to actions that will alienate voters, even worse lose trade or even sometimes tho rarely, because the inhumanity is too great.

eg Australia is in big trouble with China over PM Morrison's stupid claims about covid and Uyghur chinese, whereas Aotearoa is not. Despite pressure from USuk, Aotearoa hasn't jumped aboard the "let's all sledge China" ship. If that was achieved by kowtowing to amerikan bullies over less vital, less public and less divisive issues, good on them. That is a major from me who has little other than contempt for the neolib twats in control of Aotearoa.

Or it could be that it is like the AZ thrombosis thing could be, no connection at all.
Blind Freddie can see the last G7 was about creating a chimera of mass vaccination as a way to 'open up' and have the rich getting even richer, in that fantasy it is naive to expect that there won't be many slips twixt cup and lip. All we can do is try to discern fact from fantasy and protect as many other as possible by getting them to do the same.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Mar 15 2021 23:36 utc | 87

K @ 84 – I agree 100%, and would add there are other ulterior motives besides profit and gaining public consent, namely attempting to exert political and economic control of competing/dissenting countries. The fact that some of the world's elite have organized such contemptuous mafia-like organizations that demonstrate total disregard for human life and dignity is enough to seriously question their motives in this case as well.

Posted by: norecovery | Mar 15 2021 23:42 utc | 88

John @ 68, and oldhippie @ 70, thank you both! The video builds on what Jackrabbit @ 12 was pointing out in the Israeli study, and clearly points out the dangerous course countries are on -- please everyone, at least look at this last video!

Posted by: juliania | Mar 15 2021 23:43 utc | 89

K@84 Right on. Thanks. #1 so far. Imo

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Mar 16 2021 0:47 utc | 90

Listen to a leading vaccine expert plead for ending the vaccinations:

World renown vaccine specialist, Geert Vanden Bossche, gave a groundbreaking interview this week speaking out against administration of #Covid19 vaccines.

This is my last attempt to get the attention of at least people on MOA for what is clearly THE most important global event at this moment, and maybe in our lives.

Posted by: JB | Mar 16 2021 1:31 utc | 91

Thanks for the link j @ 89; My take; It's a toss up. Get the vaccine, or don't, and hope our knowledge continues to grow about this virus and its mutations. Christ, IF, karma is a reality, maybe it's karmic in nature.

Posted by: vetinLA | Mar 16 2021 1:38 utc | 92

Fauci is a fraud

Posted by: Dogon Priest | Mar 16 2021 1:41 utc | 93

@ JB... clearly you don't read or follow the conversation here or pay attention.. not sure why anyone would bother paying any attention to anything you say here forward!

Posted by: james | Mar 16 2021 1:57 utc | 94

JB 91

Thanks for the link, its a good overview of how the current vaccines work and how they don't or more accurately can't work.

its really well broken down

Especially interesting around 24 minutes, explaining how inadequate vaccines are actually more dangerous for the person vaccinated.

I am not aware of your previous posts, but I don't read everything all the time. This one is really useful and informative so keep it up :)

Posted by: K | Mar 16 2021 2:31 utc | 95


Albeit correct in your assessment, you are always civil. Let's keep it that

Posted by: Dogon Priest | Mar 16 2021 2:46 utc | 96

@8 & @9
love it!

Posted by: lindaj | Mar 16 2021 2:52 utc | 97

Where is the science that says one’s innate immune system is overridden after one’s specific immune system has been triggered through disease exposure or vaccination? This is the assumption on which Geert Vanden Bossche’s argument relies. Granted many people have deprived immune systems due to lack of proper nutrients etc. so disfunctional is the norm for many except young people.

Otherwise, what he says makes sense regarding mass vaccination in an epidemic especially in a population that refuses or cannot prevent disease exposure during the 5 weeks post vaccination it takes to prime the specific immune system. This would include all neoliberal societies which by designed fail on public health measures.

@ vk.
Straw man. You created your own moot point. I described a few processes to clarify what some people here misunderstood and asked a question.

Posted by: suzan | Mar 16 2021 2:58 utc | 98

re: Posted by: Debsisdead | Mar 15 2021 23:36 utc | 87

Where could you be happy? Not New Zealand, not oz, not the UK. Oh well there is always your whiskey ="must have whiskey, oh you know why".

Posted by: tucenz | Mar 16 2021 3:09 utc | 99

@K 84 good post

"How is it that people are ultra critical of political corruption yet as happy as lambs to trust BIg Pharma in spite of endless lies, corruption and human damage in the last 100 years. Why isn't it obvious that Big Pharma is part of the problem. You can't be part of the problem and the solution at the same time."

The MIC (medical industrial complex) is one of the pillars our corporate fascist system is built upon. Like all big corporate entities, it has been taken over by the financiers subjugating the doctors and other experts in the field to a secondary role. In such conditions "science" is often determined by what is profitable short term. Self-care gets treated with derision because it empowers the individual at the expense of corporate profits even though self-care...the knowledge of one's own body, and what that body needs to the foundation of living healthy, long and pain free.

Posted by: Haassaan | Mar 16 2021 3:32 utc | 100

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