MoA - EU - Russia Conflict Deepens

February 12, 2021

EU - Russia Conflict Deepens

Last week. during a visit by the EU's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell, Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov slapped down the EU's sanctimonious interference in Russia's internal policies.

Back in Brussels, Borrell, who was criticized by some EU hardliners for not directly rebuffing Lavrov's talk, set down to write a blog post in which again attacked Russia over the latest Navalny stunt:

I have just returned from a very complicated visit to Moscow, on which I had embarked to discuss the fraught state of EU-Russia relations. They have been low for a number of years, and deteriorated even further after recent developments linked to the poisoning, arrest, and sentencing of Alexei Navalny as well as the related mass arrests of thousands of demonstrators. The purpose of this mission was to express directly the EU’s strong condemnation of these events and to address, through principled diplomacy, the process of a rapid worsening of our relationship with Russia, and to help prepare the forthcoming European Council discussions on EU-Russia relations.

Borrell is delusional. Hardly anyone in Russia believes the nonsensical poisoning story for which the 'west' could provide exactly zero evidence:

Brett Harris @BrettHar123 - 18:41 UTC · Feb 7, 2021
Only 15% in Russia believe the Navalny poisoning was the Govt trying to eliminate an opponent, and the 15% based this opinion from Telegram and the Internet and were mostly 18-24. The rest think it was staged, a Western false flag, personal or opposition: https://levada.ru/2020/12/24/...

The whole Navalny poisoning was obviously some secret service operation to bash Russia. His lavish living in in a 5 bed room luxurious apartment in Germany after he was released from hospital was paid by the libertarian oligarch Evgeny Chichvarkin. Chichvarkin, who lives in London, is probably an MI6 cutout. It is still not known who paid the multimillion production costs for the fake 'Putin palace' video. The studio renting for the video was requested by a company in Los Angeles. Some U.S. involvement is thereby assured.

Poland and other NATO countries are now openly pressing Navalny and other traitors like him to continue their regime change attempts:

Poland in the EU @PLPermRepEU - 12:26 UTC · Feb 8, 2021
The recent developments in 🇪🇺 - 🇷🇺 relations require action from the #EU Member States.
This is why 🇵🇱 is hosting a virtual meeting with A.@Navalny's closest associates @LeonidVolkov & @VAshurkov.
The EU27 PermReps alongside 🇺🇸 🇬🇧 🇨🇦 🇺🇦 Ambassadors are now discussing the next steps.

Ashurkov is the guy who, in this 2012 video, can be seen meeting with a British agent and asking for money and political dirt from abroad to run smear attacks on Russian businessmen and politicians.

Volkov is another crazy dude. He has now declared himself to be the Foreign Minister of the Russian government in exile (machine translation):

Navalny's headquarters coordinator Volkov said from abroad that he was gathering the Russian government in exile and had already named himself acting foreign minister. And to get Navalny out of prison, according to him, he will primarily use foreign policy methods, that is, sanctions. The plot is shown on the air of the "60 minutes" program.

Working for foreign secret services seems to pay well.

Elena Evdokimova @elenaevdokimov7 - 21:59 UTC · Feb 9, 2021
A house in Luxenburg's city Mamer that belongs to the head of Navalny's FBK Leonid Volkov. Bought in 2014 for 720,000 euro. It shows that FBK, accusing Russian government people in having villas & property abroad, have villas & property abroad themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6KEhZk1nwQ

Navalny, Ashurkov and Volkov are traitors and should be handled as such.

Besides again bashing Russia over issues that are not the EU's business Borrell also issued a new thread:

We are at a crossroads. The strategic choices we make now will determine international power dynamics in the 21st century, and notably whether we will advance towards more cooperative or more polarised models, based on closed or on freer societies. The European Union can influence these developments, which requires a clear vision and objectives, accompanied by intense diplomatic engagement, supported by our many means of external action and projection of influence.
We will discuss these issues with my fellow EU foreign ministers. As ever, it will be for member states to decide the next steps, and yes, these could include sanctions. And we also have another tool in this respect, thanks to the recently approved EU human’s rights sanctions regime.

Does the idiot really think he can impress Russia with such sanctions talk?

Today, in an interview with a Russian TV station, Lavrov gave his response (machine translated). The headline was sensational: Lavrov said Russia is ready to break off relations with the EU.

Russia is ready to break off relations with the European Union, but would not want to isolate itself from world life. This was stated by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on the air of the "Soloviev Live" program.
When asked by Vladimir Solovyov whether Moscow is heading for a break with Brussels, Lavrov replied: "We proceed from the fact that we are ready." The minister stressed that sanctions create risks for our economy, including in the most sensitive areas. "We do not want to isolate ourselves from world life, but we must be ready for this," the minister said.

The Kremlin later said that some media misrepresented Lavrov's remarks but essentially confirmed his stand:

Russia should be ready for hostile acts from the European Union but would not want to sever ties with Brussels, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters Friday, commenting on the remarks by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov who said that Moscow is ready cut ties with the EU if Brussels chooses to impose sanctions that endanger sensitive sectors of the Russian economy.
...
"The point is that we don’t want this [to sever ties with the EU] but seek to develop relations with the European Union. However, if the EU chooses to go down this path [of imposing sanctions that entail risk for the Russian economy], then yes, we will be ready because you need to be ready for the worst," he explained.
...
According to Peskov, Lavrov’s comments do not require "any confirmation." "Of course, if we face the most destructive policy that causes damage to our infrastructure and our interests, then Russia should be ready in advance for these hostile steps," Peskov stressed.

Borrell and other EU folks fail to understand that Russia has given up on a 'greater Europe'. It no longer cares what the EU thinks:

The West’s mistake with Russia was expecting it to Westernize without any prospect of integration into Western institutions. NATO and the EU wanted a say in Moscow’s affairs while denying it a voice in broader European issues.
This was both wrong and unsustainable and now has brought us to a situation where, after 300 years, Russia has ended its Western-centric foreign policy. The EU has not yet recognized the truly historic shift that has occurred. In the early 18th century, Peter the Great sought to return Russia to Europe. But now, after a brief revival in the 1990s and 2000s, the dream of a Greater Europe has been recognized to be just that, a dream.

Western support for the 2014 Maidan coup in Ukraine drove the final nail into the coffin. But in Brussels and Washington, they are still living in a delusion and have failed to recognize how strongly Moscow feels about what happened.

Russia has turned to greater Eurasia of which western Europe is just a tiny peninsula. A U.S. proxy that has no independent voice and can no longer be taken serious. It will now be ignored.

Today Navalny was back in court for publicly insulting a World War II veteran. The EU will certainly make remarks about that. But only a few days ago police in Scotland arrested someone because he typed a mean tweet about a British veteran of that war. Brussels will certainly have nothing to say about that.

And that is at the core of the whole issue. Brussels has become used to tell others 'Do as we say, not as we do.'

That no longer works. Certainly not with Russia.

Posted by b on February 12, 2021 at 17:14 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Thanks for the posting b

Us barflies have been waiting years to get here.....and now we are.

I think the whole concept of creating a cult of make-believe Russian officials is reflective of that rules-based mentality of the empire West....and will fail bigggly.

The shit show continues until it doesn't and that time is on the horizon it seems

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 12 2021 17:30 utc | 1

This confrontation was predictable. There is a limit to what Russia can accept. Even after the russophobic UK departure from the EU, the mood is the same.
Therefore a frank confrontation may either be a wake-up call for Europe that they may lose totally Russia as a partner or in the contrary bring them more apart.
What the EU fails to realize is that without Russia , it may end up become the puppet of the USA and the UK
Time will tell

Posted by: Virgile | Feb 12 2021 17:38 utc | 2

thanks b.... you're correct borrell is delusional and a perfect representative for a delusional europe.... i am glad lavrov said what he did.. i just wish russia would throw the shit back at them by making a parallel with the wests treatment of assange... it really highlights the outrageous-ness of the west at this point...

and someone on the open thread posted about mh17 and trying to access more info contained in boxes on the rear part of the plain that might lead to a different conclusion... as i see it mh17, skripal, navalny and etc. etc - are all frame ups to take down russia... it has reached a level of insanity and borrell is the perfect delusional character to represent it all here..

throw the shit back at them russia... call the west out on their endless bullshit... the time for diplomacy is long gone and this appears to be the conclusion that russia is indeed coming to, however slowly....

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2021 17:39 utc | 3

and russia needs to monitor telegram and any other social media too if they want to keep up with the west... this is another tool of the west to take down russia.... the west it perfectly fine controlling twitter, fakebook and etc... let russia do something similar with telegram.... influencing young minds seems to be the main use of social media and the west will continue to work all the angles to continue this fake bullshit they are endless on about..

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2021 17:43 utc | 4

Good work. The USA, a drunken Baby Huey staggering under endless debt and dissent is treading the path of the unthinkable. Would neo-liberal/for-profit war economy Empire risk it all to keep the plates spinning atop the rickety sticks for a few more years?

Look at the folks in charge. The answer is self-evident.

Posted by: gottlieb | Feb 12 2021 17:50 utc | 5

Borrell - "The strategic choices we make now will determine international power dynamics in the 21st century, and notably whether we will advance towards more cooperative or more polarised models, based on closed or on freer societies."

He answers his own question - the EU (and "partners") will advance towards a more polarized international model, based on their own self-serving definitions of "closed" or "freer" societies. This self-generated dichotomy will be used to mask the true nature of this perceived crossroad: "they" can live with us, but "we" can't live with them.

Posted by: jayc | Feb 12 2021 18:02 utc | 6

In a video posted earlier today, 12/02/2021 Alexander Mercuoris of The Duran analysed the reaction of Germany’s politicians to Lavrov’s comments.
Basically even Heiko Maas the anti-Russian foreign minister shit his pants at the though of Russia abandoning Europe and therefore jeapordizing Germany a significant percentage of it’s energy supply.
When all is said and done, the E.U. will suffer far worse than Russia if Moscow abandons Europe.
The technocrats know this. However the level of maturity required to overcome their hubris is patently lacking and to re-orientate themselves idealogically will be viery difficult as can be seen by the reaction of 70 mental retards who pose as M.E.P.s in a letter they signed calling for Borrell’s resignation and a tougher stance on Russia.

Interesting times ahead.

Posted by: Beibdnn | Feb 12 2021 18:07 utc | 7

Until a few years ago, Russia did not have an alternative for purchases of many items other than from the West. It now has China to supply most needs. When China finally solves the problems caused by the US sanctions to semiconductor factories (it will take roughly a decade to develop its own photolithography and design, the most critical tools of advanced semiconductor processing), China will be able to provide everything that Russia needs except for warm climate fruits and vegetables (maybe Turkey?). This new paradigm seems to be behind Russia's new assertiveness. Europe should make peace with Russia before it fully tilts towards the East.

Posted by: Carlos | Feb 12 2021 18:11 utc | 8

In 1990 at the what I then thought end of Cold War v1 there seemed an opening to the coalescing of a northern hemisphere zone of peace - but that vision has come to nothing. What an idiot I was! How could I ever have thought that the best of the inheritance of Western civilization would lead in the West. The plowing, plundering, grasping, murdering and scheming for profit psychos in the West stabbed that vision in the heart. I am sure now another opening will not come in my lifetime - the West will make sure of that.

If I was younger I would leave the US but now can only hunker down and stay out of the way of the juggernaut of rampaging psychos lurching from one failure to another. The only relief from the deepest moments of despair is looking to the East and others that are building and working together to build a new world. Obviously Russia and China, along with Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Syria and others. It is a strange world for me turned upside down when I even include North Korean resistance to the US Empire of Mendacity as contributing to the building of that new world.

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Feb 12 2021 18:14 utc | 9

James, I do not see any similarities between the Nalvany thing and the Assange thing. It is no wonder that Russia does not bring that up.

Posted by: arby | Feb 12 2021 19:33 utc | 10

To compare Navalny with Assange is an insult to Assange, but the interviewer Solovyev brought him up in a question to Lavrov together with the Catalonian case, but Lavrov is too much Lavrov, it is amazing how in spite of being an informal setting and allowing himself to be a lot more relaxed than usual Lavrov avoids personalizing issues, he was so smart as to compare the Catalonian case as a matter of national law preeminence and not individuals, very smart move. The Spanish foreign minister fell in the trap, poorly informed by a useless MSM what rapidly jumped into the personal side of the matter.

You can check it out with this link, do a search for Assange.

Solovyev Interviews Lavrov

Posted by: Paco | Feb 12 2021 19:49 utc | 11

It is easy to see what will happen, Lulia Navalnaya will declare herself "Empress of all the Russias II", and the EU and US will agree. Cookie Nuland will fly in on an "anything-but-Boeing" airplane dressed in red ribbons to hand out cookies when the weather is warmer....

Only joking....

BUT. The West ie. NATO has been increasing pressure on Russian frontiers in the hope that it would make a mistake and start hostilities. Their recent advances into "almost" Russian territory do not leave any room for further movements. (exercises within 10km!) They may try to start a proxy waw in the Donbas..

Someone in the US is convinced that they can win a nuclear war, OR, that it will only be a "limited" war. (Back to the Israeli/US "we shoot you, but you can't shoot us"?). Neither is realistic but, the "someone" does not care what happens in Europe. The only aim (limited) is that Russia, Eurasie and the EU cannot ever get together. That is the worst possible outcome for them. It is also the worst possible outcome for the EU.

That Germany is screwed is just the "icing on the cake" for the "someones". (US, and Israel who now are part of NATO).

That Lavrov is angry is a sign that the squeeze has given way to crunch, that as things are, a war WILL happen and the Russians will NOT back down. I don't think things could be clearer.

I am waiting for a massive false flag in the form of aa "cyberattack" Stuxnet bis, or an EMP (nuclear blast at altitude) to start a war and herald at the same time the start of the "reset". The latter will, as you may remember include the collapse of Banking systems, infrastructure and Governments. What is needed is an "enemy" and so....... no prizes for correct guesses.

Posted by: Stonebird | Feb 12 2021 19:51 utc | 12

"If you dare to sanction us and do economic harm we will in return ... uhm ... sanction us, too, in order to do even more economic damage to us. Ha!"

This recent northkoreanesque statement will reenforce at the capitals of Europe the impression that Russia is an actor that can't be reasoned with and more of a thread than previously thought.

I also wonder if the Lavrov-Plan is really such a bad idea. A new iron curtain would ensure that Russia remains an emerging economy - limiting it's ability as a military threat in the long run - while also making sure that Russia becomes a vassal of the peaceful far-away China. The more I think about it the more this appears to me as the second best case scenario.

Posted by: m | Feb 12 2021 19:55 utc | 13

the Reality is NOT quite right the way b has present it. EU together with US, Canada CAN and WILL hurt Russia deeply if they slap severe economic sanctions on Russia's energy sector. And Russia knows that and EU knows that Russia knows it.
The West's game is very simple: cut Russia from the Western world, by denying it access to any type of new tech, economic loans and any type of ties with the West. (this worked quite well with the Soviet Union, so it WILL work again) And this WILL hurt Russia deeply economically, no question about it. And before you tell me about China and the supposed Russia-China's ties, let me inform you that the ties are merely economic and both still don't trust each other. The Russians are well aware of CHina's claims over Siberia. They don't really work together, most of those ties are imaginary and dont really exist.
Putin has made several mistakes, and he is too dependent on the Rich Russian millionaires. The threat of sanctions made him freeze when the West went after Ukraine and Putin didn't act to save it. Russia will cry bloody tears over this in the very near future. This is only the overture of things to come. There will be another fake false flag even in the Azov sea after which USA will demand Russia be boycotted. Ys that will hurt EU also, but the Eu are masochists who love getting their asses fucked by US.
Russia better get prepared and get their supply ass grease ready, they will be getting serious ass fucking very very soon. And they wont be able to do anything about it. Good going, Putin!

Posted by: Hoyeru | Feb 12 2021 19:56 utc | 14

AriusArmenian @9--

I commiserate as we're in the same boat. I watch like a hawk because forewarned is forearmed!

/////

Published at the right moment given events is this Strategic-Culture Editorial: "NATO’s Road To Perdition With Ukraine." It omits the Borrell incident to focus on the recent meeting between NATO secretary general Jens Stoltenberg hosted Ukrainian prime minister Denys Shymhal at the organization’s headquarters in Brussels:

"At a joint press conference, both men were upbeat about Ukraine joining NATO. Stoltenberg admitted that the former Soviet Republic has been eyed for membership of the alliance since 2008, a timescale which puts more recent conflict over the past nearly seven years in perspective. He also confirmed that NATO forces have been building up their presence in the Black Sea in coordination with Ukrainian counterparts. In recent weeks, three US warships have been training with Ukrainian naval vessels in order to counter what Stoltenberg says is 'Russian aggression'."

So, there's much more in the stew than it appears:

"It is interesting to speculate why Stoltenberg – a former Norwegian premier and nominal civilian head of NATO – this week appeared to give new impetus to Ukraine’s ambitions. Could it be related to the change of administration in the United States? Senior members of the Biden administration have publicly stated during Senate hearings a willingness to increase military support for the Kiev government in its conflict with pro-Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine. American and European envoys at the UN Security Council this week reiterated strident accusations against Russia claiming that Moscow was responsible for prolonging the conflict in Ukraine. Russia’s envoy Vassily Nebenzia countered that it was the Kiev regime and its Western allies who have not implemented the previously agreed Minsk peace accord signed in 2015." [My Emphasis]

Bald-faced lies in public forums that began with Clinton/Gore have steadily escalated and clearly aren't a product of any one administration but a continuity of the War Party's attempt at Full Spectrum Domination that keeps slipping further away from any possibility of occurring, thus its desperation. Yesterday, I provided this link to The Saker's latest analysis and called it a Must Read. Within he links to several reports from Russian media and military sources that those watching closely need to read. Yesterday, Putin met with his Security Council ostensibly about arms control but I think the conversation went well beyond that, although I have no confirmation. The Solovyov-Lavrov transcript isn't complete yet, but what's there is incredible! As Lavrov said, "Well, this is some kind of a kingdom of crooked mirrors." If what Lavrov said of Borrell's position, we should have some pity for him being put into such an impossible position--but then, he's well paid to do his duty.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2021 19:58 utc | 15

@ 10 arby... aside from what @11 paco says - thanks paco) , i see the west complaining about someone being locked up - navalny... the fact assange has been locked up for the past 11 years and there is a witch hunt on him from the west shows how hypocritical the west really is... they don't care about justice.... neither navalnys or assanges... it is all posturing to tell the world how horrible russia is... it is completely vacuous when you look at how they have treated assange.. so, that is why i think it needs to be thrown back in the wests face... however, lavrov is much smarter then i, so russia will do what they are going to do and it is probably wise they don't do what i say, unless they think it is time to stoop to the wests level...

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2021 20:00 utc | 16

arby @Feb12 19:33 #10

James, I do not see any similarities between the Nalvany thing and the Assange thing. It is no wonder that Russia does not bring that up.

EU MP Clare Daly breaks it down for you.

Enjoy.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 12 2021 20:17 utc | 17

Patrick Armstrong wrote yesterday about the consequences of the Navalny brothers' scam in 2012 against Yves Rocher:

NAVALNIY. The story continues. The theory that he’s being fitted up for a treason charge was given a boost when Zakharova said he should be called an “agent of influence” rather than a politician. His suspended sentence for fraud was lifted and he’s off to prison. Read Yves Rocher’s statement; sounds to me as if the company believes he did swindle them. The fact that there’s now a campaign against the company suggests my deduction is correct.
https://patrickarmstrong.ca/2021/02/11/russian-federation-sitrep-11-february-2021/
That contains a couple of links giving more details of the case.

Armstrong also links to this tweet by the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs of a video showing many examples of police brutality in the West and also violence by protesters against police in Russian (the opposite of what is shown in Western media).
https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/1356674233464729609

Posted by: Brendan | Feb 12 2021 20:22 utc | 18

Stonebird @12--

Several days ago on the 10th, I posted this link and commented about what I deemed the notable words spoken by Lavrov on Diplomats’ Day. IMO, it's a martial pep-talk given his peroration followed by this paragraph:

"Russia’s attempts to become an independent state, to uphold its right to an independent foreign policy and to protect international law are coming against increasingly harsh resistance of our Western colleagues, who would like to teach 'obedience' to us. They would like us to accept the highly questionable interpretation of common human values, an interpretation that contradicts Russia’s cultural and civilisational traditions. They would like Russia to become a 'convenient' territory for promoting their own security, economic, social and political interests. We can see that these are becoming ever more aggressive with every passing day. We must actively apply our efforts, knowledge and experience, based on the wisdom of our predecessors, to consistently promote the foreign policy course formulated by President Vladimir Putin."

How else do you prepare your diplomatic corp for war?

If you've followed Lavrov closely for many months as I have, the change in his demeanor is quite marked; yet as Paco notes, he still maintains his professionalism. Lavrov's perplexity about how consensus is supposed to function was well put--we know several nations disagree with the policy yet go along with it--WHY?--the united front undercuts your own interests. In Putin's latest conversation with his Energy Minister, there was no mention of Nord Stream 2's situation. Given all the sanctions and lack of pushback by the EU nations most dependent on it, IMO Russia is willing to sacrifice it as it didn't bear all the costs and has plenty of potential customers for its hydrocarbons. So, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Russia stopped short of finishing, said it would fulfill its existing contracts, but no more would be negotiated until conditions drastically change. Hardball is just that--Hardball.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2021 20:23 utc | 19

Mr. AriusArmenian

"Idiot", from Greek - Idiotys - he who walks alone.

You were not alone sir, I shared your expectations.

Posted by: fyi | Feb 12 2021 20:30 utc | 20

@ 17 jackrabbit.. thanks.. i happened to see that the other day - might have been on rt.. trying to figure out who owns d.tube... i get info, but not who owns it..

this is from march 2018... anything other then google which owns youtube, is good by me..
DTube is more than a YouTube alternative

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2021 20:57 utc | 21

Thank you very much Karlof1 for your links.I specially appreciate the Solovyov interview with Lavrov.Incredible text indeed!What an interviewer,talking between peers.

Posted by: willie | Feb 12 2021 21:05 utc | 22

I think we now know just how far Russia is willing to bend to work with US/EU. This far, and no more--which is a heck of a lot farther than the US/EU would bend to work with Russia. Russia's position is very understandable.

Posted by: worldblee | Feb 12 2021 21:06 utc | 23

Only 15% in Russia believe the Navalny poisoning was the Govt trying to eliminate an opponent, and the 15% based this opinion from Telegram and the Internet and were mostly 18-24. The rest think it was staged, a Western false flag, personal or opposition:
https://levada.ru/2020/12/24/chto-rossiyane-dumayut-ob-otravlenii-alekseya-navalnogo/

Levada is considered a [pro-]Western sociological service (there are links with Soros) in Russia and the results of its polls, let's say, cause a certain skepticism. 15% of those who believe in "poisoning"... I would say figures of 5-8 (maximum 10) percent look much more realistic.

It is still not known who paid the multimillion production costs for the fake 'Putin palace' video.

Well, I would look for sources in names like Khodorkovsky or/and Browder.
Both scammers are longtime haters of Russia.

The Kremlin later said that some media misrepresented Lavrov's remarks but essentially confirmed his stand

According to Russian legislation, the country's foreign policy is determined directly by the president. The Foreign Ministry is essentially just a repeater, although of course it introduces its own peculiarities. Therefore, there is no doubt that Lavrov's words were coordinated with (and approved by) Putin. Peskov, as usual, in his own manner, tried to somewhat “smooth out”/“embellish” Lavrov's directness and rigidity, which, however, does not negate the essence of the statements themselves.

Today Navalny was back in court for publicly insulting a World War II veteran. The EU will certainly make remarks about that. But only a few days ago police in Scotland arrested someone because he typed a mean tweet about a British veteran of that war.

Here I can only support the British, who massively stood up for the offended veteran Sir Thomas Moore.
Citizens wrote mass appeals, statements to the police demanding to bring to justice the degenerate who insulted the memory of the war hero.

Unfortunately, Russian society often lacks such civic initiative. Yes, the authorities will do their job, and a piece of shit named Navalny, who slandered the war veteran, will be punished. But besides the actions of the authorities, it would be nice to see also the "demand of the people", you know.

Posted by: alaff | Feb 12 2021 21:14 utc | 24

karlof1 | Feb 12 2021 20:23 utc | 19

And I have been following you, following Lavrov.....

The Nordstream II is a question mark. It is being finished by the Russians, with their own ships. The Germans have also realised that their own interests are tied up there. The "Threatening situation" (from the west) does not come from either one.

My conclusion is that EU policy is being dictated from outside, the secondary question is "by whom". Unfortunately I suspect that the main driving force is the same one that "enabled" Biden, Enabled the ousting of socialist candidates in many countries. (Corbyn, and in S. America generally), and generally assume they are the top of the top.

Is this force based on "nationality" or on "interests", call them Religious nuts, Extreme militarists OR Financial Fascists? Alternatively are they a mixture of all three***.

One explanation for Lavrov's coldness is that IF the EU was an independent representative body (which it isn't) then certain actions to improve the lot of the populace would have been taken. That they are not means that they lack the ability to deviate from what they have been ordered. By way of an explanation, the Media will lie, because they cannot do otherwise having been "bought" in some way. Lavrov has certainly changed. Because he probably knows what is "supposed" to happen, and the EU miasma do not understand that they too will be in the forefront of any battleground. (Since that includes me, I am not too happy about the situation either).

Aside; *** They could be mixture of all three tendencies. ie. 9/11 had operatives from the Saudis, Israel, and the Pentagon, with three different motivations. Religious (Saudis), Suprematist (Israel) and monetary (Pentagon and it's "lost" trillions, and profitability by insiders).

Posted by: Stonebird | Feb 12 2021 21:18 utc | 25

The stalker zone has a good take on it:

As the head of the Soviet intelligence service, Leonid Shebarshin, an extremely well-informed man, once said: “The west wants only one thing from Russia — that it does not exist”.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2021 21:20 utc | 26

"throw the shit back at them russia... call the west out on their endless bullshit... the time for diplomacy is long gone and this appears to be the conclusion that russia is indeed coming to, however slowly...."

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2021 17:39 utc | 3

Good advice, but the Russians need to pursue that advice NOW, and every day by whatever means available, even the UN.

Posted by: vetinLA | Feb 12 2021 21:32 utc | 27

No doubt the EU knows Russia could add a tariff on Nord Stream gas, and ratchet it up whenever Russia decides to, and so they bark, but crossing their fingers.

Posted by: Featherless | Feb 12 2021 21:50 utc | 28

Russia might not know it right now, but insulating itself from the complete depravity of the West is a long term winning strategy. In 50 years we'll be begging to be let into Russia as economic refugees.

Posted by: Jezabeel | Feb 12 2021 22:20 utc | 29

Stonebird @25--

Thanks for your reply! You wrote:

"One explanation for Lavrov's coldness is that IF the EU was an independent representative body (which it isn't) then certain actions to improve the lot of the populace would have been taken." [My Emphasis]

Now what current ideology supports such a policy--that the lot of the masses isn't supposed to be improved; rather, they are to have their wealth wrung out, then be tossed aside and used as manure. Hint: It was famously announced as Trickle-down Economics, which was lambasted as Voodoo Economics.

If you read Hudson, then you know where the power center lies within the Outlaw US Empire and its network of vassals--The privately held Central Banks and those that control them and many other key corporations thanks to interlocking boards of directors--the same basic cabal that failed to assassinate FDR and oust him via a coup but succeeded with JFK, RFK, MLK, and so many others: millions when adding in their terrorists and their Death Squads.

To rid Europe of its Central Bank, the EU would need to be disbanded. But to gain complete sovereignty, NATO would need to die also. Currently, Europe is essentially occupied by a force every bit as immoral as the Nazis. It's not by accident that Lavrov, Putin and others invoke the Great Patriotic War and the events that led to it as recurring.

I would not be surprised to see Russia actually perform the deeds it's accused of, like actually invade and subdue Ukraine. It it did so, realistically what would change? Nuland famously gave the answer Russia would now echo--Fuck the EU. As with the Republic's Trade Federation secretly aligning with the Sith, the EU will come to regret playing dummy to the Outlaw US Empire as it gets barred from gaining any benefits from being in the Eurasian Bloc and China's BRI Combo.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2021 22:24 utc | 30

I don't really follow the Navalny situation anymore because as soon as I see Russia mentioned in any Western media I assume it's an "intelligence community" psyop or just plain old propaganda. But something piqued my curiosity regarding this alleged mansion of Putin's.

Strategic culture provided two links to YouTube videos in their articles, one of which to my knowledge isn't subtitled so I don't know what was being said in Russian. In this video a group of guys made the trip to the site of this mansion compound and showed the place in disrepair, looking like exterior had aged quite a bit.

The other is to Navalny's own video which alleges to explain that the reason for the current state of the project is that the original design/construction were faulty and that a serious mold problem, as well as leaking roofs, had caused them to strip out the entire interior ostensibly to rebuild from scratch (and allegedly tossing "billions" of rubles worth of marble and other fancy construction materials). He also says that the original photos and video which show the place in pristine condition, were from 6 years ago before the teardown.

Leaving aside the obvious fake photos (like the one in Moscow times which was a photoshopped Putin swimming in his new mansion, lol) and the situation in general (i.e., whether Putin has anything to do with this structure at all), can anyone square this circle for me? Is it disproven that the place was indeed built a while back and later stripped down due to the leaking roofs and mold? If so is there a source in the English language that explains the situation?

Thanks to anyone who can help.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Feb 12 2021 22:45 utc | 31

There is a strong whiff of desperation of the EuroCrapsters and their US masters to grab what Russia has (resources) and thus delay own economic collapse. All these crapsters are freezing their asses off right now whilst dreaming of profits from pillaged Russian energy. The most precarious is the Western pension system, which with ZIRP and NIRP interest rates has stopped existing. There is no source of funding in this World that could feed that hungry monster with ageing population. The Western printing presses are overheating and this is only a delaying solution for the deeply debalanced system. Absolutely the only way out for the West is to bring down Russian government and pillage. If Russia did not have nuclear weapons this would have happened a while ago. The Russians understand this perfectly.

Will the sick West run into a desperate confrontation against a bee with a big sting? It must be unusually frustrating for the AngloAmerican crapsters not to be able to just take what they want and need from the World as they have been doing over the past couple if centuries. They have the big sting but their mark has an even bigger (hypersonic) sting. What a profound change in world affairs - pillaging from now on to come at the huge cost. And Putin appears prepared to prevent pillaging of not only Russia.

The calculation is fairly clear - either they will feed, cloth and keep warm the Western elderly and others using Russian resources or there will be no pensioners after a nuclear Holocaust. Either way problem solved.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 12 2021 22:52 utc | 32

OT, but really important!

Why is America getting a new $100 billion nuclear weapon?
by Elisabeth Eaves, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, 2/8/21
https://thebulletin.org/2021/02/why-is-america-getting-a-new-100-billion-nuclear-weapon/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=MondayNewsletter022021&utm_content=NuclearRisk_NewWeapon_02082021

“America is building a new weapon of mass destruction, a nuclear missile the length of a bowling lane. It will be able to travel some 6,000 miles, carrying a warhead more than 20 times more powerful than the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima. It will be able to kill hundreds of thousands of people in a single shot.
The US Air Force plans to order more than 600 of them.”

An extensive examination of the even more terrible danger we're putting ourselves into, and how we got here, and what we should be doing about it.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Feb 12 2021 22:57 utc | 33

Posted by: m | Feb 12 2021 19:55 utc | 13

We are entering an Asian century, with Asia to comprise most of the global economy by 2040. The EU, meanwhile, is on a self admitted long term decline, according to most estimates up to 2100 and probably beyond. Russia btw is growing faster than the EU.

Now, why would anyone want to get closer to a bunch of NATO puppets (Germany rejected independent European defence) that are also trying to subvert and take over their country, and later dismember it? No way, thank you.

And no, this isn't simply about China, but about Asia in general, the world's largest continent with the world's largest population and the world's fastest growing economy. In comparison to it - the EU is returning to its place after 500 years of attemts to subjugate the planet - a mere peninsula of the larger Eurasian continent. Which is what it always was.

Asia's MO is multipolar and multi-civilisational. In it, there is space for everyone. Far better than the NWO the US and EU are desperately trying to foist.

I suggest that from now on we should not be talking about "Europe" but about "European Peninsula".

And not of "America", but of "US America" - which is only a part, and not even the biggest one, of the Americas. Not "americans" either. US americans instead. The rest - mexicans, brazilians, etc. are americans too just as those US americans from the US.

It is time for the rest of the planet to rise and make its voice heard.

Posted by: Passer by | Feb 12 2021 23:09 utc | 34

karlof1@30. thank you, for your many links, observations, your years of research, knowledge & insights. i think you might find smoothie's most recent post & comments worth a read (as well as another 2 recent)...along with the saker's latest post on lavrov, again do peruse the comments. @ smoothie, LM, commented that he believes the conflict (for most believe conflict is now all bt inevitable) will begin in the ukraine under nato & in syria via the headchoppers. although syria, with iran & hezbollah & russia embeddeed, may well be more difficult than biden's team imagines. the world is very different from his last visit to either the middle east or ukraine, as well hezbollah has made it very clear to israel, israel will not escape unscathed. i also expect america to test xi in the pacific. russia recently helped xi update his missile defence. it will be a shock for many worrying about impeachment proceedings & other non essentials to learn of several destroyers sunk & that military communications have been strangely silenced re: thomas cook. it's my belief that iran, syria, hezbollah, china, russia, pakistan all have an agreed understanding. myanmar will be pivotal, as will yemen. eu like canada will be the fly over & seemingly happy to soak up some of the damage but russia's new weapons mean america will feel the hits directly.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Feb 12 2021 23:40 utc | 35

>>This recent northkoreanesque statement will reenforce at the capitals of Europe the impression that Russia is an actor that can't be reasoned with and more of a thread than previously thought.

This is a very typical comment of delusional euroracist imagining that Europe is "the world" and the "international community" and thus moving away from the EU (something others are doing too - including the US, Turkey, Iran) is somehow northkoreanesque.

Darling, Russia has excellent relations with the rest of the planet. Which defacto means "the world", as the EU is only a small part, and a declining part, of it. And it is expanding them. Russia intends to expand ties with the rest of the planet while denying itself to the EU. It is enough to see the number of asian cars, tourists, trade and consulates overtaking those from the EU.

EU is to drop to 10 % of the global economy by 2050 vs 52 % for Asia. What else is there to talk about?

So good riddance to bad rubbish.

Posted by: Passer by | Feb 12 2021 23:41 utc | 36

Its all about one goal......to armtwist germany into cancelling the nord stream project.

Posted by: Hermius | Feb 12 2021 23:41 utc | 37

I do agree that it is time for Russia to look Eastward, specifically ASEAN.

Posted by: Smith | Feb 12 2021 23:59 utc | 38

@ AntiSpin | Feb 12 2021 22:57 utc | 33

Sounds mighty scary, but how does it differ from the dial-a-yield (variable yield) nukes which have been standard (and we have been with) in the US since the late 1960's?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_yield

Posted by: gm | Feb 13 2021 0:00 utc | 39

I always heard that Ukraine joining NATO was a red line for Russia. That would mean the nukes could be stationed in Ukraine. I think the world will suffer far less angst if Russia prevents Ukraine joining NATO than if Russia backs down western nukes on her borders. It will be interesting to see how that slice of brinkmanship and escalation plays out. Slices, rather - it will not happen in black and white two steps but in multiple shades of gray.

I too speculated that Russia could hold back deliberately from completing the pipeline, but on reflection right now, it makes more sense to complete it. The victory over the US (by Germany as well as Russia) will thereby occur. Russia can always decline to fill the pipeline with anything, and if it's complete and just requires the opening of a valve, it adds zest to the negotiations. So runs the speculation.

But, in the end, Russia will fulfill its obligations and be true to its given word. It will complete NS2 and pipe gas to Europe, all in terms of contracts that will be entered into. Russia is a tough enough opponent just in contracts alone - who was the US official who said negotiating with the Russians was like buying the same horse twice?

And Lavrov is not mad, he's simply presenting the new message from Russia. That message is yet one more thin slice in the escalation. Russia never bluffs and never backs down and at most only ever gives one warning. EU has been warned, Russia will take that next step if necessary. It may not be necessary. Russia can wait for the EU's next move. Russia will never blink, but the EU may well.

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 13 2021 0:07 utc | 40

I would like to know, in concrete terms, what is the benefit from constant denigration and provocation of Russia, and who benefits, in precisely what ways. I do know, however, who does not benefit. The vast majority of Europeans, the Russians and generally the majority of humanity.
-Pushing Russia around and away is counter productive for the EU and Europe as whole. It is a big, peaceful, neighbouring country willing to cooperate on the basis of mutual respect and interest. Russia has put foreward many constructive proposals, all of which have been rejected
- There is no rational basis for the long-lasting and escalating pressure on Russia. If that is correct, the goals and actions of the West, and the the EU in particular, are irrational from the perspective of the real life interests of the majority of European citizens and welfare and wellbeing of the majority of people in the world.
- I hope that Russia does not abandon its orientation towards Europe, because it is a European state. It should be part of European integration projects, albeit not on the present model of the EU. That does not clash, but accords, with its Asian relations and projects.
- The EU should radically change its policies towards Russia, and welcome it as an important partner in all fields.
- The qeustion is - who is going to stop the race into the abys that the European leaders are accelarating? I don't see anyone or anything on the European scene considering, capable of and willing to put an end to this utter madness. I do see who is paying the price and who will pay even more dearly in the future. The majority of European citizens.Deeply depressing and very scary.

Posted by: JB | Feb 13 2021 0:58 utc | 41

Truest words that has ever been spoken at the EU.

Posted by: J W | Feb 13 2021 0:59 utc | 42

Borrell should shut his gob until Assange is freed.
But of course this is not about democracy is it ...?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 13 2021 1:44 utc | 43

I'm just an infectious disease scientist.

But

1 europe will capitulate if I was Russia.

2. No gas or oil

3. Do freeze, it's on me

But that's just this country boy from Memphis perspective. Guess I throw away reason. Maybe because I'm a black man, maybe because I was taught to fight mindless twaddle with fire.

Posted by: Dogon Priest | Feb 13 2021 1:53 utc | 44

Grieved | Feb 13 2021 0:07 utc | 40

Chess, Putin; I'll move my knight to Hmeimim airbase to counter your moving pawns to East Syria.

"Russia has been developing the Hmeimim Air Base in Latakia in western Syria in preparation for it to receive strategic nuclear bombers as part of plans to strengthen the Russian presence in the country, Russian Nezavisimaya Gazeta reported"

The Syrian airbase is being enlarged to take Nuclear bombers and the US "USA occupation forces in Syria, abruptly withdrew all their troops and equipment from Tell ‘Allo and its Wheat Silos in Al-Ya'rubiyah region of alHasaka province in the extreme north east; and moved them to Iraq."

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210212-russia-equipping-syria-air-base-to-receive-nuclear-bombers/

karlof1 | Feb 12 2021 22:24 utc | 30

About that Ukrainian thing and the new placing of nuclear bombers in the med - is Putin doing a "lateral movement", as he is the expert?

About the EU, I think it is more likely that the EU is the prey, nothing else.
The "reset" is potentially a takeover (with the Central Banks backing) by corporations, of all the political/national systems they can, ( Capitalism inc.), as a counteraction to the growing integration of the BRI groups.

Posted by: Stonebird | Feb 13 2021 2:03 utc | 45

I had noticed over the last couple of months that statements coming from Russia, and China, too, were shifting in tone and becoming much more firm. I'm sure the two are acting in close consultation with each other. For so many years, I think both nations thought it best to be patient and swallow a bit of pride, so long as the West was doing such a fantastic job of destroying itself. No need to do anything to change that.

But I think both Russia and China have now concluded that the West, led of course by the US, is really becoming frantic because of the continuing failures of their policies (and problems at home), and the Obama era team of genuinely demented neocon/neoliberals are back in power, and that they are so consumed by their own propaganda and hubris that they may very well do about the only thing left to them short of admitting fault, which is to start a shooting war. I think that's why both Russia and China are now trying to convey in the strongest way possible that they cannot and will not tolerate another escalation, and that if war must start, they are ready. I really hope the powers that be will understand that message, but I am not optimistic. It used to be that the military would put the brakes on the politicians at the last minute when it came to fighting a peer power, but I'm afraid the US military brass are now just politicians in uniform, without combat experience, and are less likely to be willing to stand up to a push for war. There will most certainly be problems in places like Syria and Lebanon, but I truly fear a more direct conflict in the Ukraine or China/Taiwan, probably this summer.

Posted by: J Swift | Feb 13 2021 2:27 utc | 46

The Eurocrats know this. However the level of maturity required to overcome their hubris is patently lacking and to re-orient themselves ideologically will be very difficult as can be seen by the reaction of 70 mental retards who pose as M.E.P.s in a letter they signed calling for Borrell’s resignation and a tougher stance on Russia.

Interesting times ahead.

Posted by: Beibdnn | Feb 12 2021 18:07 utc | 7

Recently someone was fired for using the "very hurtful word retard", so be careful ... Also, Parliament is supposed to reflect the voters, and a (un)healthy fraction of them are a bit slow on the uptake.

More astonishing is that there were only 70 such people in a body of 705. Poland and the Baltics are represented by 77.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 13 2021 2:35 utc | 47

I am not sure where this fits in to the discussion but I was listening to a podcast from a metals dealer about the gamestop shorting. He ended up talking about a lot of things I didn’t know. The one that fits in this conversation is: he said that in the last few years Europeans have pulled their gold stores out of the US. He believes that this is part of the great reset that will be mostly about getting of the dollar and back to the gold standard. He talked about how the elite are buying both Gold Silver and crypto. That they understand that the stock market is based on absolutely nothing so when it goes it is going big and the US is not going to recover. Oil is no longer worth much and will never really come back as a big player. It was a very interesting talk.

Posted by: Susan | Feb 13 2021 2:39 utc | 48

Posted by: Beibdnn 7

<== Yes, <= but the replacement for Russian Oil will be LGN from Texas, Louisiana and Oregon..
I think getting Russia to back off of Europe is exactly what Bush and the USA and British shale oil LNG investors all want..

Carlos @ 8 says "Europe should make peace with Russia before it fully tilts towards the East." <= I agree, LNG will flood Europe to make Europe the prisoner of the west.

Stonebird @ 12 says someone" does not care what happens in Europe. <= NATO is the oil man's whore.

squeeze play on Lavrov will result in War. maybe but it looks to me to be LNG..the Texas and Louisiana investors are over their heads and that is why Biden was elected, if they cannot sell oil in Europe they are out of business in the USA.

I think Hoyeru @ 14 explained it quite well this is a squeeze play to take the oil business in Europe from Russia.

The threat of sanctions made Putin freeze over Ukraine; Putin didn't act to save it. Russia will cry bloody tears over this in the very near future. This is only the overture of things to come. There will be another fake false flag even in the Azov sea after which USA will demand Russia be boycotted.

<= LGN is queen oil is King.

kARLOF1 @ 15 SEYS IT AGAIN IN A MORE HISTORIC WAY.
Bald-faced lies in public forums that began with Clinton/Gore have steadily escalated and clearly aren't a product of any one administration but a continuity of the War Party's attempt at Full Spectrum Domination that keeps slipping further away from any possibility of occurring, thus its desperation. Yesterday, I provided this link to The Saker's latest analysis and called it a Must Read. Within he links to several reports from Russian media and military sources that those watching closely need to read. Yesterday, Putin met with his Security Council ostensibly about arms control but I think the conversation went well beyond that, although I have no confirmation. The Solovyov-Lavrov transcript isn't complete yet, but what's there is incredible! As Lavrov said, "Well, this is some kind of a kingdom of crooked mirrors." If what Lavrov said of Borrell's position, we should have some pity for him being put into such an impossible position--but then, he's well paid to do his duty.

I believe this is true route to WWIII.. Take Russia out of the picture, just as the bankers took Germany out of the picture in WWI. I think China is standing by to help the USA against Russia.. Its all about LNG.

Posted by: snake | Feb 13 2021 2:56 utc | 49

@ Susan | Feb 13 2021 2:39 utc | 48 who wrote about gold, silver, crypto and oil

This relates to Russia that is financially in good positing going into this whatever reset.

Let me deal with crypto first...it is non-substantial/physical requiring energy to make, store and process and who the hell knows who owns the beginning of the pyramid scheme....the currency from the sovereign nation of delusion.

Gold, silver and oil are things that historically and currently represent some intrinsic commercial value. The reasons of wanting to attach these things to the valuation of currency are:
1. store of intrinsic value
2. not as easily created into oblivion like the US dollar since 1971 when off gold exchange
3. restriction of number 2 limits the empire building capabilities of the power hungry
4. less ability to whipsaw nations currencies unless BIS stays in control and is not monitored.

Yes, humanity needs to return to the step up from barter with a form of exchange that is not controlled by a cult of global private finance owners but by an association of sovereign nations for the common good.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 13 2021 3:13 utc | 50

@ psychohistorian | Feb 13 2021 3:13 utc | 50 who forgot to add that the smart talk is about a breadbasket of precious metals and raw materials linked to the money that results in stable currencies.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 13 2021 3:19 utc | 51

wow, fantastic b.

Posted by: annie | Feb 13 2021 3:27 utc | 52

Paco #11, thanks for the link to Lavrov interview.

Posted by: annie | Feb 13 2021 3:44 utc | 53

AntiSpin @33, gm @39

The Bulletin article doesn't really delve into the issues around the US' new low-yield 'tactical' nukes, it concentrates on a new big 'strategic' ICBM system, the Ground Based Strategic Deterrent (GBSD). It seems to be basically an attempt to resurrect the capabilities of the Reagan era MX 'Peacekeeper' that was scrapped under the START treaties as it was optimised to carry a large number of warheads and the US preferred to keep a larger number of Minuteman III missiles with single warheads.

Although it probably won't be quite as large as the MX, it will be better suited than the Minuteman for carrying multiple hypersonic glide vehicles like the Russian 'Avangard' system. The Russians have an initial operating capability on their SS-19/UR-100N ICBM (similar in payload to the Minuteman) but will soon deploy their much larger RS-28 Sarmat which will allow multiple hypersonic gliders to be carried.

The article describes a typically corrupt US procurement process, with the big three arms companies (Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Northrop Grumman) fighting it out for the mountain of $. Northrop Grumman managed to win out by buying up the only manufacturer of the large solid rocket motors that the contract required the contractors to use. Solid rocket motors were one of the only aspects of space technologies where the US was unequivocally in the lead, with 4 or 5 companies producing them. By the time of the GBSD contract only one company remained after the orgy of mergers and buyouts, Orbital ATK. ATK was the successor to Thiokol Corp, whose product doomed the crew of the Space Shuttle Challenger (being basically a big 'light it and stand the f*** back' firework solid motors are not a great option for crewed spaceflight, but well suited to ICBMs).

By buying up ATK, Northrop Grumman threatened to massively cut into the profits of any other company bidding, ensuring a clear run to the contract for itself. Many analysts had suspected that Boeing would be given the GBSD contract to compensate for their losses on the 737Max, but Northrop's maneuvers and Boeing's terrible recent track record in space made that impossible. Boeings SLS moon rocket failed its crucial static-fire test in Jan 2021 and is 5 years behind schedule despite it being basically a Space Shuttle tank with Shuttle engines bolted to the bottom (early 70s tech). Its Starliner Space Station ferry also failed its uncrewed flight test last year due to a plethora of software errors, one of which was discovered with minutes to spare and would have killed a crew by crashing the service module into the crew module moments after the modules seperated for reentry into the atmosphere.

With all that in mind I don't think the Russians are too troubled by the US's prowess in space or financial technology. Whatever Frankenstein's Rocket emerges from the GBSD program will be most unlikely to rival the RS-28 (known to NATO as 'Son of Satan'), and by that time the 'Grandson of Satan' will probably be flying.

Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Feb 13 2021 4:57 utc | 54

@35 emersonreturn - " it's my belief that iran, syria, hezbollah, china, russia, pakistan all have an agreed understanding"

That's a very important concept. And we can't exactly know for sure today, but parts if it are increasingly tangible. Iran has said that if she is attacked, then the entire resistance will attack the US bases. So that alliance is sewn up pretty tight. China and Russia are coming closer publicly to a formal defense pact.

We have long speculated about the military defeat that probably comes next to the US. First we talked about the "slap" that was coming from somewhere, but then Iran administered it a year ago. As we saw, Iran was prepared for, and her soldiers were expecting, full-on military war with the US, but the US took its slapping and did nothing.

So next comes the actual military defeat wherein the US is compelled to slink away from whatever theater it happens in. One thing we rarely discuss is, what happens when that defeat is administered? What if China does sink a carrier - and then Russia announces that further military action against China will be considered action against Russia? What if the Iranian axis all chime in and say the Middle East bases are now live targets if further action is taken against China?

Your thought is one I hadn't considered before, so thanks for sharing it. I had armchair-wargamed one country defeating the US, and wondered about the response, but I hadn't thought of an alliance then facing the US. And you know, an alliance such as you suggest could actually be enough for the US to back down - much more than simply one country.

It all depends on which theater. There must be a zillion scenarios buzzing through those Russian supercomputers nowadays. But the multipolar world has long been pondering the containment of the wild dog America. Actual military actions must surely be a quiet part of that deep pondering.

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 13 2021 4:59 utc | 55

@ emersonreturn and Grieved about the alliance(s) against empire

I see the base of the MAD alliance being Russia/China who I wrote are linked at the hip and was told the term was wrong but I stand by the characterization....in my world the hip is the power center and I see China and Russia joined with their respective power centers. And alliances are like icebergs.....much that you can't see.

Yes, within the ME theatre, I agree with the emersonreturn quote " it's my belief that iran, syria, hezbollah, china, russia, pakistan all have an agreed understanding"

I further believe that within our civilization war there are other theatres like South America that have the Russia/China core and Venezuela, Cuba and potentially growing others.

The shit show of empire continues until it doesn't and it has never been challenged like this and is failing before our eyes....what an interesting time to be alive but sad to see so much suffering from my comfortable perch.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 13 2021 5:23 utc | 56

@45 Stonebird & karlof1 @30

Interesting news about Hmeimim Air Base, many thanks. I wonder if nuclear-capable bombers in the eastern Med would counter a NATO threat creeping into Ukraine. I wonder what shift it would give to the balance of forces.

karlof1, I like that scenario of Russia taking Ukraine. We always said it didn't want the cost, but military needs may now outweigh that. I suspect Russia would split the territories and have elections everywhere to see who wanted to be civilized and who wanted to clean toilets in the EU. And then the new borders would come down very hard. And as you and Nuland say, fuck the EU.

There would be nothing that NATO-US could do with Russian nukes in Ukraine and bombers in Syria. That could be a strategic calculation that wins the argument in favor. And getting the Borderlands back, despite the cost, surely must resonate in some hearts in the Kremlin?

As you know, Lavrov was telling Soloviev that France and Germany have forgotten about their obligations under the Minsk agreement, that they insist on creating a resolution without Donbass at the table, a violation of the Normandy format. Russia holds firm of course, and nothing can break that lock that Minsk holds the situation in.

But if Russia severs relations with EU, and pushes those two countries into a kind of ultimatum to follow the procedures or be declared in some kind of default, could Russia become the sole guarantor of Minsk? Could she then sit down with Donbass and give another ultimatum to Kiev - all this is very wild speculation, but just wondering how those strands might come together.

And since the realities escalate in very thin slices, we could be watching this all move closer over the next couple of years to a place where Russia could solve some problems all at once.

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 13 2021 5:39 utc | 57

I know I should take Christian Colonial Chutzpah more seriously, but all I hear is a Chicken Hawk EU Choir singing I Whistle A Happy Tune..

Whenever I feel afraid,
I hold my head erect.
And whistle a happy tune,
So no one will suspect I'm afraid.

While shivering in my shoes
I strike a careless pose,
And whistle a happy tune
And no one ever knows I'm afraid.

The result of this deception
Is very strange to tell.
For when I fool the people
I fear I fool myself as well.

I whistle a happy tune,
And every single time,
The happiness in the tune
Convinces me that I'm not afraid.

Make believe you're brave,
And the trick will take you far,
You may be as brave,
As you make believe you are.

Wh wh wh wh, whew,
Wh wh-wh wh wh, whew.
You may be as brave,
As you make believe you are!

Lol! Yeah, right Eurotrash!

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 13 2021 5:55 utc | 58

Russia doesn`t have the capability to invade and absorb Ukraine. Polls show that nine out of ten Russians are against a Russian-Ukrainian war and the Ukrainians, who are staunchly anti-Russian by now, would wage a guerilla war (see the "territorial defence bataillons" that poped out of nowhere in 2014). So yes, Russia has the ability to invade and occupy Ukraine, but that would put Russia on a steep downward trajectory.

Russia also won`t cancel Nord Stream 2. From the Russian perspective Nord Stream 2 is for Germany what the S-400 is for Turkey. Russia can provide a NATO country in a critical area with a degree of strategic independence from the USA and thus create a crack within NATO. Germany, on the other hand, is undecided. (What`s worse, being dependent on the USA for energy supplies or having Russia as a partner?) The next federal elections in Germany will bring a change in the ruling coalition and there is a decent chance that Nord Stream 2 will never become operational shouldn`t it have been finished until then.

Posted by: m | Feb 13 2021 6:48 utc | 59

Russia would only invade Ukraine in response to a Ukrainian assault on the rebel controlled areas. In that event, the assault would be quick and devastating, with the low morale, conscripted troops folding almost immediately, and Russian troops in Kiev around 48 hours later.

Russia needs not land or resources, so their is no need to conquer and hold a Nazi infested basket case nation. They'd keep the pro-Russian Eastern third, and let the Eastern European Jackals do what they will with the rest.

Posted by: Jason | Feb 13 2021 7:13 utc | 60

Oh well time to repeat my belief which most at the very least ignore and the rest denigrate, that soon (at most within the next couple decades and probably within the next 10 years), Russia and England are going to hook up.
I acknowledge absolutely that on the surface nothing seems less likely, that nothing like that can occur while B Johnson is the political boss of england and V Putin the political boss of Russia.
Johnson has another 3 years, tops, IMO Putin has a good deal longer and it cannot be until he has departed that this shift will occur. The reason for this is not down to Putin, it is down to the fact that he has been libelled, lied about and attacked in every way possible by the whole spectrum of englander media. Winding that back is simply too much of a task for pernicious englanders.

However by the time V Putin pulls the pin and with B Johnson long gone but the mess he created still very much around there will be a recognition between both sides of the ruling elite, conservative and neolib alike, that trying to keep england afloat in a world where neither europe nor amerika (pragmatism insists that in a choice between the EU (population 450 million) and england plus ancillaries (pop 70 million if Scotland, Wales & Ireland combined pop 11 million, still haven't freed themselves), that the englander mini empire is screwed.

Amerika submerged by so many chickens coming home to roost at once is going to go for the 450 mil every time - the fact that englander intelligence access to the rest of the EU hase been severely curtailed would make that a no-brainer.

So what? Well englander tories who are currently are fond of spouting a mob of pseudo-intellectual bulldust about the ethics of Russia or China, really only do so because there is a dollar in that for them.

As soon as that no longer becomes the case as it will over the next few years as ther ability to be a conduit ceases, when neither amerika bothers to feed them that tosh, nor euro-elites bother to listen to it, the englander tory party whose primary interest has always been enriching themselves & their aristo sponsors, will change course & hook up with what they will claim is a 'new' Russia.

There will be no where else for england to go, especially if Germany & France are silly enough to have another crack at Russia, ignoring the fact that both nations were cruelled by Russia the previous instances where they tried this on, imagining that having amerika on-side could improve the chances for success, which they will, can only turn out to be a major mistake.

Long term brexit will be seen as a kick off point, one that forces massive changes to england's foreign policy goals and alignment, if for no other reason than 90% of its former empire - that is everyone but Australia who have stupidly left themselves with nowhere else to go following their anti Sino foolishness, all the nations which englanders have been told are positively certain to accept their role as willing bearers for the white man's burden, elect to "have no more of that nonsense".

It isn't widely acknowledged much yet countenanced yet, but as most of us ordinary shitkickers, aka 'the masses' have observed that since 2008 all of the 'westernised' northern hemisphere have found themselves in a state of flux one which requires western leaders to make serious changes to their assumptions and their goals.
Despite all that, I reckon that most of the current EU will see the safety in numbers and stick together, whilst those outside the neoliberal globalist pact that is the EU will change their alignments.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 13 2021 7:16 utc | 61

Excellent and important summary of recent EU/Russia events. Thanks.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 8:47 utc | 62

m | Feb 13 2021 6:48 utc | 59
Jason | Feb 13 2021 7:13 utc | 60

You have opposing views, but there is no need for Russia to take control of ALL Ukraine. Only the Russian speaking parts, and even then possibly only the independent Donbas+ area. Just walk in, and set up a properly militarised "wall". No casualties. ie. Really doing what the US and EU PR accuse them of already doing.

That stops the daily shelling from the Banderites and NATO training groups (with live targets). Particularly if the Russians import their new mortar tracing radar. Bang back to base?

Would they include Odessa and other Russian speaking areas? Don't know. Mariupol? Don't know, but it would eliminate most if not all Ukrainian presence in the Azov sea. (Ukraine is supposed to be building a new "militarised port there, and a second near Odessa (?)

Why should they want to take on a corrupt country with a corrupt system owned by Oligarchs, who have more in common with Poland anyway?

A split might be good enough to "solve" the problem. Cookie monster Nuland and the Ukranians in the Capitol riots (yeah) could then concentrate on the US.

Posted by: Stonebird | Feb 13 2021 8:58 utc | 63

@63

To continue, The Minsk agreement, did not have obligations for Russia,and the Ukrainians have not fulfilled any of theirs. (Russia were just signatories like the others). Therefore by calling it moot and non viable, a separation could be proposed as the only long term solution.

Posted by: Stonebird | Feb 13 2021 9:03 utc | 64

@karlof1 | Feb 12 2021 19:58 utc | 15

"It is interesting to speculate why Stoltenberg – a former Norwegian premier and nominal civilian head of NATO – this week appeared to give new impetus to Ukraine’s ambitions. Could it be related to the change of administration in the United States?

Jens Stoltenberg is the son of former Foreign Minister Thorvald Stoltenberg. They both speak Serbo-Croatian and were involved in the destruction of Jugoslavia in the 1990s, and are thus sufficiently compromised to be allowed to climb the ladders of power.

Jens Stoltenberg was the favourite heir of the PM position after the manipulative PM Gro Harlem Brundtland in the mid 1990s who later became head of the World Health Organsation. You can thank people like her for the authoritarian policies after the "virus". Something like this was always their dream scenario. They tried it with "global warming" but didn't succeed as they have now (check the outrageus "climate" lies in the PM Jens Stoltenberg 2007 new year speech).

Jens Stoltenberg was elected as supposed anti anti-NATO (yes) youth party leader in the 1980's, but he was always a compromised person, controlled opposition. The so called "terrorist attack" on 22. July 2011 was a near replica of the 911 event, complete with near demolition of the central city high-rise government building, crisis actors and followed by the massarce of ~70 of his younger party comrades (who happened to be critical towards Israels policies towards the palestinians) at the Utøya summer camp.

Jens Stoltenberg immediately after the massacre promised "more democracy" in an Orwellian public speech, and guess where we are today. As a sign of his accomplishments, Jens Stoltenberg is now the chief puppet of NATO and is continuing to serve his masters.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 9:24 utc | 65

@J W | Feb 13 2021 0:59 utc | 42

Truest words that has ever been spoken at the EU.

Thank you for that link. A rare voice of sanity in an insane EU.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 9:46 utc | 66

@Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 9:24 utc | 65

Jens Stoltenberg was elected as supposed anti anti-NATO (yes) youth party leader in the 1980's

Sorry for the typo. Here is the correct version:

Jens Stoltenberg was elected as supposed anti-NATO (yes) youth party leader in the 1980's

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 10:14 utc | 67

Snake @ 49:

Russia and China signed a friendship and cooperation treaty in 2001, in which both nations agreed to give up all claims on one another's territory.

Obviously there are people in both Russia and China - and they would include people in both nations' governments - who are unhappy that Russia and China decided to respect one another's borders and territories. China at least has no reason to covet Siberian territory and especially Amur River territory - China's own northeast territory (Manchuria) is depopulating and deindustrialising. This region has one of the world's lowest fertility rates, apparently lower even than Japan's.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 13 2021 10:57 utc | 68

@ Norwegian

What can change a man from being anti-NATO to pro-NATO? I have seen pro-NATO turn anti-NATO but the reverse would require much mental gymnast.

Posted by: Smith | Feb 13 2021 11:09 utc | 69

The problem with armchair strategists is of course they don't know all the facts, those at hand to the actual players. Some leaks into the real world but far too much is hidden.

All we know is that Russia appears to have stopped its subservient position and have started with the EU, not the US. Is that because they believe they are now finally powerful enough for a military conflict? Or perhaps as they believe one is coming anyway? Or are there other hidden factors in play?

One thing of interest is that it hasn't taken long for the NATO/Russian situation to escalate quickly since Trumps removal, anyone still doubt he was removed? Also of note the US general now stating nuclear war is possible, more fear to add or just introducing the idea to us as something that may "have" to be done to save the world for democracy?

How much does one believe in coincidence? Karmically there is no such thing. Many big issues going on in the world now from covid with its fascist responses to Big Resets, massive world debt, and now increasing military tension with Russia and perhaps China as well soon. All interlinked?

Posted by: Gravel Rash | Feb 13 2021 12:19 utc | 70

@Smith | Feb 13 2021 11:09 utc | 69

What can change a man from being anti-NATO to pro-NATO? I have seen pro-NATO turn anti-NATO but the reverse would require much mental gymnast.

Hypocrisy, corruption and coercion can get you very far, especially if the target has been stupid enough to compromise himself.

Aftenposten is the ultimate MSM newspaper in Norway (pro occupation forces during WWII by the way), and supposedly conservative. Here is an article from Aftenposten in 2014: Fra NATO-motstander som ung til NATO-topp i dag

The headline translates to something like "From NATO-opposer as young to NATO-chief today". The article contains a facsimile from Aftenposten in 1985, titled "Norwegian exit from NATO is our goal" and interviewing the 25 year old Jens Stoltenberg then about to take over as leader of AUF (Arbeidernes Ungdomsfylking), i.e. the youth party of the Norwegian Labour party. In the interview he claims to work towards the Labour party making exit from NATO its official policy after the party convention in March 1985. The interview further touches on his NATO views then:

— Du er ingen utpreget NATO-tilhenger? spør journalisten.

— Nei, det stemmer. AUFs mål er å nedbygge blokkene og norsk utmeldelse av alliansen, svarer Stoltenberg, før han viser en mer forsonlig holdning:

— Men vi erkjenner samtidig at Norge sannsynligvis vil være medlem av NATO de nærmeste år. Derfor vil vi også stille krav til hvordan Norge skal opptre som alliansemedlem. Vi må kjempe for atomfrie soner og frys av atomvåpenarsenalene, sa Stoltenberg.

Machine translation with some editing:

- You are not a strong NATO supporter? asks the journalist.

- No, that's right. AUFs goal is to downsize the blocks and Norwegian exit from the alliance, answers Stoltenberg, before showing a more conciliatory attitude:

- But we recognize at the same time that Norway is likely to be a member of NATO in the next few years. Therefore, we will also make demands on how Norway will act as an alliance member. We have to fight for nuclear-free zones and freeze the nuclear weapons arsenal, said Stoltenberg.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 12:25 utc | 71

I just heard some guy from the USA on BBC overnight (listening in Australia), talking about the Uighurs, and he was trying to draw a false equivalence between events in Xinjiang and "what happened to Native Americans" in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Fuck me! What a load of stinking horseshit.
I shall await the staged footage of the Chinese military handing out smallpox-infected blankets then, shall I?
How stupid (and unworldly) do these ass-hats think the general populace are?

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Feb 13 2021 13:05 utc | 72

Ps. Apologies for the OT.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Feb 13 2021 13:06 utc | 73

@ Norwegian

Ah, these are the same as the Greenies who wanted to bomb Serbia. Always complain but never do anything (except getting rid of stuff, or bombing people for ideological reasons).

Posted by: Smith | Feb 13 2021 13:09 utc | 74

What can change a man from being anti-NATO to pro-NATO? I have seen pro-NATO turn anti-NATO but the reverse would require much mental gymnast.
Posted by: Smith | Feb 13 2021 11:09 utc | 69

The answer to your question is Shekels.
US/NATO has 'performed' most of "Israel's" dirty work in the Middle East since the beginning of the Fake War On Terror. And the Jew-controlled Media hates Putin's guts for driving a stake through the heart of the Yinon Plan.

The Totalitarian Trickle-up Capitalists are angry with China for demonstrating that Trickle-down Socialism is a lot more People-friendly than Merciless Greed. Yesterday, CGTN did a hit piece on how quickly the Richest Folks on the Planet recovered from their Covid set-backs and are now back to increasing their wealth adding, somewhat unkindly, that the profits the Super-rich are pocketing COULD help a lot of people who won't recover from their set-backs for a decade, or more.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 13 2021 13:23 utc | 75

Gravel Rash @ 70 says "The problem with armchair strategists is of course they don't know all the facts, those at hand to the actual players. Some leaks into the real world but far too much is hidden." <= Yes, secret reasons and corrupt objectives are the culture of the Oligarch controlled nation state system. But experience shows conspiracy theories foster the kind of investigations that uncover the truth no matter the camouflage of the hide out. That why the social media and search engines are erasing or hiding everything they can that challenges the official or allowed narratives.

by: Grieved @ 55 What if the Iranian axis all chime in and say the Middle East bases are now live targets if further action is taken against China? Also i fear that axis also includes many in the nation state impounded populations around the globe that will aggressively, spontaneously join organized aggression of any kind if it is against the USA or its western allies and or one of its private spy corporate and agency contractors.

The potential resistors do not need to be Iranian axis members, or military in uniform, they can
be found in so-called partner nation states made friendly by force to the West all over the word, but
having experienced intelligence agency color, regime change..or having been invaded, bombed, and having been deprived of their future, they hate the western nation states and have little if anything to lose by joining
anti western nation state aggressions

I sense immense worldwide anger toward the USA and its western allies.. both external to the USa and internal to the USA. Western nation state governed citizens don't believe one word <=government or privately owned mind control sourced propaganda of the type often broadcast on privately owned public media.

Nation state leaders feed Mind control propaganda over these privately owned public media outlets;
and government and private "content-provider" contractors write the propaganda which fills the air time
and private corporate contractors search the media to discover and deny alternative viewpoints or
to keep the truth from surfacing in the western nation states..

Fake Pandemic and RNA script substitution for immune system immunization clearly show <=only the dense
still believe => the content <=media distributes and exposes.

Its not just that media propaganda no longer fools most nation state trapped persons, it goes deeper.
If a message is promoted over the privately owned public media, the message is automagically understood
to have been designed to some how to screw the members of the intended audience. Each time media speaks,
citizens feel the outward directed forces seeking to extract from their pocket books, wallets, bank
accounts, etc. one more bit of their survival reserves. or worse the audience sees in the media promoted messages, the loss of a service or a human right previously enjoyed.

m at 59 sez => Russia doesn`t have the capability to invade and absorb Ukraine. <= American Citizens were 99% against joining the British Bankers in their war to take the oil from the Ottoman and to destroy Germany because the west c/n compete with German superior technical and economic success in world markets. But unwilling governed in America, did not stop the USA. it joined WWI anyway and conscripted many Americans to die in the European war zone.

Posted by: snake | Feb 13 2021 13:38 utc | 76

Official statement of the Russian Foreign Ministry:
"Our attention has been drawn to information about preparations for the deployment of a squadron of American B-1B Lancer strategic bombers to the Norwegian air base near Trondheim to conduct joint exercises with the Norwegian Air Force.

We consider this decision by Oslo as another step in a whole chain of similar measures to increase military activity in the far north in the immediate vicinity of Russia's borders. As you know, the construction of a harbor to supply U.S. nuclear submarines is being completed near Tromso in northern Norway. Ostensibly to permanently organize training activities in the north of the country, contingents of Marines from Great Britain, the Netherlands, and the United States have been sent there. The permanent "rotating" deployment of U.S. Marines to Norwegian territory in October 2020 will de facto make it possible to increase your numbers in multitudes under the pretext of conducting exercises. These are just a few examples.

The Norwegian Defense Minister Bakke-Jensen's statements that Norway's actions allegedly have a "stabilizing effect" and that Moscow has no reason for a particularly sharp reaction arouse incomprehension. Can one speak of "calm" when tensions are growing near Russia's borders and a strong springboard is being created to fight our country?

We believe that these activities of Oslo represent a threat to regional security and the end of the traditional Norwegian policy of not opening foreign military bases in the country in peacetime.
We expect Oslo to adopt a responsible policy in the North and refrain from actions that undermine regional stability and damage bilateral relations."

https://www.anti-spiegel.ru/2021/amerikanische-strategische-bomber-und-atom-u-boote-direkt-an-der-norwegisch-russischen-grenze-stationiert/amp/

@ Norwegian
How do Nirwegian people feel about the American activities in their country?

Posted by: Kirsten | Feb 13 2021 13:40 utc | 77

Piotr Berman @ 47

Thanks for the tip. I mean it!

However despite being officially retired from my one man business and have my finances well placed, I do occaisionally tackle work for old clients. Who share many of my views.

I refuse to have a Twitter a/c and I am independent enough, in the respect of outraged retards and snowflakes, not to be concerned by the knee jerk reactions of slavering Chiwawas affecting my life or well being.

These persons I refer to are in no way, anything more than mediocre skivers who ponce off the hard working citizens of their respective countries.

It’s my opinion and until resolutely shown otherwise, I have no intention of changing it, quite apart that I have the more important issues in my existance than to be concerned about their puerile reactions

Posted by: Beibdnn | Feb 13 2021 13:40 utc | 78

Kind of interesting the way the thought of war seems to excite a lot of folks.
IMO, Russia and China do not want a war , nor Iran.
The fact that they are lightly taking a stance against the never ending accusations , insults and provocations is because they have had enough.

They want the west to come to its senses and come into the 21st century and a multi polar world.
IMO, they do not want the US to fall apart or the EU.

Posted by: arby | Feb 13 2021 13:45 utc | 79

@Kirsten | Feb 13 2021 13:40 utc | 77

@ Norwegian
How do Norwegian people feel about the American activities in their country?

I don't know for sure (but see below), we are largely locked into our homes, prevented from speaking openly to one another. I was blocked from a Norwegian MSM discussion forum for saying the US election was contested, and providing evidence to support that. Lying is not a problem, telling the truth with references to support your position is not allowed.

Regarding what you report, I can only speak for myself, I am scared. What is happening is contrary to everything we have been taught about Norwegian base policies since WWII. Now the madmen have taken over this place. I therefore assume that most people here who understand what is going on are extremely worried like me. But I suspect too many are asleep or are simply uninformed.

Please all understand that this is not representative of the will of the Norwegian people, we are effectively under foreign occupation once again. It is only two generations ago that a member of my family was imprisoned during the German occupation. And please do remember that the northernmost province, Finnmark, was liberated by the Russians at the end of WWII, after which they withdrew. We are grateful for what they did then. Russia is our neighbor (we have a common border in the north), the US is not.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 14:19 utc | 80

Borrel's delusional believe in the EU's own propaganda exposes him as having lost any relation with reality. Doubling down on that delusion in his blog only makes that more worse and explicit.

Posted by: JR | Feb 13 2021 14:43 utc | 81

Gravel Rash @Feb13 12:19 #70

I think it's worthwhile to dispel some of the misconceptions behind your comment.

=
The problem with armchair strategists is of course they don't know all the facts, those at hand to the actual players. Some leaks into the real world but far too much is hidden.

Not knowing all the facts is not as much of an obstacle as you think. Recent moves behind the scenes are only a small fraction of the info needed to understand what is going on. As made famous by the phrase, "I know which way the wind is blowing."

=
All we know is that Russia appears to have stopped its subservient position and have started with the EU, not the US. Is that because they believe they are now finally powerful enough for a military conflict? Or perhaps as they believe one is coming anyway? Or are there other hidden factors in play?

No, that's not "all we know". Did you use this formulation to deliberately hype the military threat from Russia?

Russia started with the US in Syria (2013) and then Ukraine (2014). What's happening now is that Navalny is being used as an excuse to stop NordStream II. To suggest that Russia's willingness to express it's pique is prompted by the "hidden factor" of it's military power is a transparent attempt to portray Russia as a threat.

=
One thing of interest is that it hasn't taken long for the NATO/Russian situation to escalate quickly since Trumps removal, anyone still doubt he was removed?

Trump was no friend to Russia. Ironically, you fail to notice the "hidden factor" of propaganda.

Pro-Trump propaganda says that Trump was "removed". Many of us that believe the US President is merely a spokesperson for the Deep State and that the partisan divide is a tool for control see Trump as having simply been "replaced" with another tool. Just as tool Obama was replaced with Trump. Rinse, repeat.

=
Also of note the US general now stating nuclear war is possible, more fear to add or just introducing the idea to us as something that may "have" to be done to save the world for democracy?

My take: nuclear sabre-rattling for fun and profit.

=
How much does one believe in coincidence? Karmically there is no such thing. Many big issues going on in the world now from covid with its fascist responses to Big Resets, massive world debt, and now increasing military tension with Russia and perhaps China as well soon. All interlinked?

Some of the interlinkages are stronger than others but the Cold War with Russia and China (aka "Great Power Competition") take precedence.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 13 2021 15:06 utc | 82

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/vladimir-putin-real-lessons-75th-anniversary-world-war-ii-162982

Putin created a document about lessons from WW2. Even if you disagree with him or just hate him, ask yourself if Trump, Biden, Pelosi or any other elderly US leaders could reason at this level or offer this depth of thought. That's my take away...

Posted by: Eighthman | Feb 13 2021 15:14 utc | 83

S.P. Korolev @Feb13 4:57 #54

Thank you for that detailed overview.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 13 2021 15:14 utc | 84

Kirsten | Feb 13 2021 13:40 utc | 77

"We expect Oslo to adopt a responsible policy in the North"

We will hold Oslo responsible in the North.

There fixed it for you, as they say.

I don't know about the majority of Norwegians but I have always thought of them as having a good (maybe hard) life getting on with their own business. The idea of the US doing "military exercises" with live fire and pollution in Artic areas is a bad idea. Call Greta Thunberg to explain.

I also notice that the US is now trying to set up bases on the Islands North of Greenland and Greenland itself. This probably isn't about "deterrence", more like the oil reserves in the Artic regions make US corporations jealous.

@Norwegian.
Isn't part of the problem that there are several underground bases left over since WWII. One is supposed to have 10'000 mothballed Abrahams Tanks (Probably exageration, but.... lots) in underground tunnels, and even a ship "tunnel". Once IN, the US is difficult to get OUT again.

Posted by: Stonebird | Feb 13 2021 15:17 utc | 85

@Stonebird | Feb 13 2021 15:17 utc | 85

@Norwegian.
Isn't part of the problem that there are several underground bases left over since WWII. One is supposed to have 10'000 mothballed Abrahams Tanks (Probably exageration, but.... lots) in underground tunnels, and even a ship "tunnel". Once IN, the US is difficult to get OUT again.

Yes, this was a big issue when Stoltenberg was 25 years old... so called "forhåndslagring" (stupid word "pre-storage"). It never went away. Now it is much more dangerous US offensive weapons. Why do we need to worry about "enemies" with friends like this?

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 15:51 utc | 86

Maybe Stoltenberg just realized since his 20s that the world doesn't gravitate around Norway? Note that Norway tried to remain neutral during World War 2 and was attacked and invaded by Germany - just a few days before the UK would have done the same.

Small Norway leaving NATO wouldn't reduce international tensions significantly. It would only lead to Norway having to face these tensions alone.

Posted by: m | Feb 13 2021 15:56 utc | 87

navalny is apparently the ramon guaido of russia, the designated front man for a us coup operation.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 13 2021 16:02 utc | 88

@m | Feb 13 2021 15:56 utc | 87

Note that Norway tried to remain neutral during World War 2 and was attacked and invaded by Germany - just a few days before the UK would have done the same.

The Norwegian government and King escaped from the German invaders and stayed in London during the war.

The idea is not that the world gravitates around Norway, it doesn't. But Stoltenberg has been made head of this insane war-mongering organisation and is trying to incite war with Russia in Ukraine and elsewhere, including in my small home country it seems. Continuing the WWI parallels, Stoltenberg mirrors Vidkun Quisling.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 16:08 utc | 89

So when push comes to shove Norway intendeds to take Russia's atomic punch for America? What a bunch of swell guys those Norwegians are!

As for why Stoltenberg became a big NATO fan, that's easy. A CIA-connected operation like the one Jeffrey Epstein ran (yes, there is more than one!) hooked him up with some little Filipino boys to enjoy himself with. Stoltenberg has to do as he is told now or the videos of his "night of passion" get leaked online. This approach is cheaper and more reliable that trying to appeal to someone's greed.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 13 2021 16:46 utc | 90

So when push comes to shove the American-paid Quislings 2.0 intends to let the rest of Norway (alternatively: Australia) take Russia's (alternatively: China's) atomic punch for America?

I fixed that for ya.

Posted by: J W | Feb 13 2021 16:52 utc | 91

@William Gruff | Feb 13 2021 16:46 utc | 90

So when push comes to shove Norway intendeds to take Russia's atomic punch for America? What a bunch of swell guys those Norwegians are!

Thanks for the kind words, but the intentions are all US American.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 17:18 utc | 92

@ Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 17:18 utc | 92

During the Cold War, it was highly unlikely Norway could ever escape the US's pull, since the USSR's economy was completely destroyed and the Arctic was one of the most strategic regions for the capitalists against the socialists (GIUK Gap).

But, after the fall of the USSR, Norway made the strategic decision to not just continue, but go all in on NATO. I don't know the specifics of contemporary Norwegian history and won't pretend to know it, but the facts are public and notorious, and, for good or evil, the decision was made. It is difficult - not to say almost impossible - to revert now. It is not easy or fast to change one nation's military doctrine: even with the will to do so, it may take decades for the conversion to a new military doctrine to take place.

Posted by: vk | Feb 13 2021 17:25 utc | 93

@vk | Feb 13 2021 17:25 utc | 93

But, after the fall of the USSR, Norway made the strategic decision to not just continue, but go all in on NATO.

And that was the opposite of Stoltenbergs publically stated intentions in 1985. Thanks for proving my point.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 17:37 utc | 94

Posted by: JB | Feb 13 2021 0:58 utc | 41

I would like to know, in concrete terms, what is the benefit from constant denigration and provocation of Russia, and who benefits, in precisely what ways. I do know, however, who does not benefit. The vast majority of Europeans, the Russians and generally the majority of humanity.

I suppose the answer is right there in the question. Take away the Europeans, Russians and the majority of humanity and who are you left with?

You could ask the question differently. Who stands to lose the most were the Russians, Europeans and, say, the Eurasian, and African continent as whole, to start getting along wonderfully? What happens when the vast majority of the world interacts peacefully and grows to become a successful, integrated bloc with enough mass to set its own rules? What happens, is that the buck stops here. Adios free lunch.

As you point out, pushing Russia around is counter productive to Europeans. It is an inherently unattractive product. Hence, the heavy artillery deployed by marketers and the relentless barrage of narrative-building noise bits.

The media clown show is completely aimed at a home audience. So much so, that the West could, without the least bit of irony, complain that Navalny's arrest is Russian interference in Western domestic politics.

Posted by: robin | Feb 13 2021 17:41 utc | 95

robin @ 95, indeed. I envision a march on Washington,DC that simply focusses on truth-telling. "Tell Us the Truth!" would make a mighty fine placard. And it shouldn't be busses organized by some distant fat-cat. Just people walking (walking is good for you) - walking out their gates, walking down their streets, walking on the main roads, walking on the interstates, walking, walking, walking. Have food and shelter way stations like they do for the Tour de France....from Californeee and the New York Island...."Tell us the Truth!"

Doesn't need twitter; doesn't need facebook; doesn't need anything but word of mouth. Total in your dreams stuff, but that's the stuff that is needed, and some day that's the stuff that will happen. Is happening already in India.

Posted by: juliania | Feb 13 2021 17:52 utc | 96

The problem with Navalny is not that he is a 'traitor' to Russia but that he is an agent of the Empire, on the payrolls of the Five Eyes security complex. Which makes him a traitor to humanity.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 13 2021 18:22 utc | 97

@ 88 pretzelattack... correct... i have made this parallel at moa before too...

@ norwegian.. thanks for your many comments on stoltenberg.. i appreciate you sharing your perspective... how widespread is this view inside norway??

Posted by: james | Feb 13 2021 18:50 utc | 98

@james | Feb 13 2021 18:50 utc | 98
It is not just a "perspective", it is most of all a summary of basic, well known facts about him in this country and more could have been said. However, it is true that too many people add 2 and 2 and arrive at 5.

Internationally, it is obvious that people do not know who the present NATO Chief is or what he represents, and I can understand that since there are few journalists anymore. So I added some facts about him.

For those of you who can read Norwegian, here is something I wrote 24. July 2011 about then PM Stoltenberg, what he promised and the immediate censorship that occurred after the 22. July 2011 attack.

A small translated excerpt:

Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg made a great speech 24. July in Oslo Cathedral, where he among other things said the following "our response is more democracy, more openness and more humanity". First reaction to this is to agree 100%, while at the same time one is 99% sure that ambition will not be followed up in practice.

Now we begin to sense what we have in store. In May 2011 we experienced that forskning.no closed for all open climate debate. Another important forum for climate debate has been Aftenposten's Debate Center, even with all its serious mistakes, manipulations that are well documented here at Fugl Føniks. Under the cover of the terrorist event 22. July, now Aftenposten has found an opportunity to close the entire Debate Center. Is this what Stoltenberg meant by "more openness, more democracy?"

That forum never returned, even though it was the largest and most important in the country. It may be seen as a detail now, but it illustrates that the exact opposite of what Stoltenberg promised in public did indeed happen immediately. It was a precursor to the censorship we see all around us internationally today.

Stoltenberg will have no problems being equally reliable on a much larger scale as NATO chief today, since he does not answer to any voters anywhere.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2021 19:41 utc | 99

Reading the above conversation on Norway and Jens Stoltenberg, I can't help but feel sad that in the 1990s the Scandinavian nations, Finland and Iceland did not seize an opportunity to form their own military alliance that could act as a counterweight to NATO and other regional formations (such as Poland's harebrained Intermarium schemes stretching from the Baltic to the Black Sea) in their region. I guess Norway, Denmark and Sweden carry too much recent historical baggage (Sweden collaborating with Nazi Germany while the other two were under German occupation) to be able to trust one another.

As for Finland, it had to ally with the Germans to fight off the Soviets during the 1939 Winter War ... but the Finns could have declined to participate in the German invasion of the USSR.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 13 2021 19:51 utc | 100

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